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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all. So what's happening

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Speaker 1: in women's basketball right now is what we've been trying to.

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Speaker 2: Get to for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: From the stadiums where athletes to break barriers and set records.

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Speaker 2: Kaitenanquar broke the all time single game assists record. This

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Speaker 2: is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Carrie Champion. Hey, everybody, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: another edition of Naked Sports. Which girl Carrie Champion. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you all being here and listening and being faithful.

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Speaker 1: I will introduce our next guest in a few moments.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be You're gonna be happy to hear from him.

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Speaker 1: He is a true to me, a teacher, a professor.

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Speaker 1: He calls himself a digital creator, but he definitely has

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Speaker 1: found a way to speak to the culture. But before

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Speaker 1: I get into that, I have to talk about our podcast.

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Speaker 1: Let them play WNBA Growing Pains. That's our podcast from

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Speaker 1: last week. If you didn't listen, please do. But I

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Speaker 1: want to address something that is disturbing and and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if anybody will hear this, but I am

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Speaker 1: really really tired of the narrative that these women in

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Speaker 1: the WNBA are jealous of Kitlyn Clark, or Angel Reese

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Speaker 1: doesn't like Caitlyn Clark, or we should be grateful for

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Speaker 1: Caitlyn Clark. If you've listened to me, you know I

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Speaker 1: am a big proponent of saying we as fans can't

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Speaker 1: be mad at how she is getting attention, how the

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Speaker 1: media is covering her, how legends in our business revere

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Speaker 1: her so soon, so quickly. I think of a Dick

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Speaker 1: Vital who said the women of the WNBA are jealous

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Speaker 1: of Kaitlyn Clark. Charles Barkley echoed something very similar Stephen A. Smith,

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Speaker 1: same thing.

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Speaker 3: These people, these.

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Speaker 1: Voices that we hear consistently in sports, that we regard

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Speaker 1: as credible and worthy of our time, are sending that message.

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Speaker 1: They are sending that message without hesitation, that Kitlyn Clark

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Speaker 1: is untouchable and the women of the WNBA are jealous.

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Speaker 1: The reason why that bothers me. I can give you

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Speaker 1: a ton of reasons why. I can tell you that

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Speaker 1: Dick Vital or Charles Barkley or Stephen A. Smith weren't

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Speaker 1: watching the WNBA in ninety seven in a real way.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you these men just started to watch

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Speaker 1: the WNBA because of Katelyn Clark, I'm sure. And now

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Speaker 1: that they've watched and they're paying attention, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's not, Oh okay, it's it's kind of interesting. I

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Speaker 1: just don't believe that they have the right, nor do

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Speaker 1: they have the knowledge and or acumen to make such

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Speaker 1: a sweeping statement as if it is fact. And because yes,

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Speaker 1: and even if it is fact, even if it is.

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Speaker 3: True, who cares?

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Speaker 1: There are people who were jealous of Lebron and Kobe

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Speaker 1: and Barkley and name any other superstar player. Players in

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Speaker 1: the NBA were jealous as well. And it wasn't headline news,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't something that people stopped and paid attention to.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't something where you said, oh, everybody's jealous of Lebron.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about it, and it is this gender bias

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Speaker 1: and how in which men, the way they consume women's sports,

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Speaker 1: feel like they have to point out women being caddied.

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Speaker 1: And you all know, if anybody's listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: the biggest gossips, the biggest caddiest people usually aren't women. Okay, guys, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Whenever I hear something about some gossip, it's usually coming

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Speaker 1: from a male. I just want to let you know,

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Speaker 1: especially in this business. But to my point, so what

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Speaker 1: if they are jealous? So what if they are competitive?

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Speaker 1: That is sport. It happens all the time. And I

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Speaker 1: hate how precious you all are being with Caitlin. I'm saying, yes,

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Speaker 1: and these two things can exist. Yes, and yes they

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Speaker 1: may be jealous. Yes, they might be upset with the

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Speaker 1: fact that she's getting all the attention, and they also

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Speaker 1: are still playing the sport. They also are still showing her.

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Speaker 1: She's still not regarded as other legends are. She isn't

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Speaker 1: the best in the league. No one is saying that.

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Speaker 1: I most definitely am not saying that she is the

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Speaker 1: best in the league. I'm saying she's a super nova

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Speaker 1: with a special talent. Doesn't mean she's the best in

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Speaker 1: the league. It means there's something about her that is

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Speaker 1: drawing people to her, that makes people who have never

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Speaker 1: watched this game before want to watch the game.

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Speaker 3: Let's ride that wave that's separate.

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Speaker 1: I really truly cannot stand that listening comprehension is gone

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Speaker 1: these days. No one pays attention. I'm not saying she's

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Speaker 1: the best. I'm not saying that angel Reese is not

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Speaker 1: as good as her. In fact, I think Angel Reese

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Speaker 1: is a dog. I think they both are figuring it out.

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Speaker 1: Is there's sophomore seasons. They are going to have great streaks,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna have bad streaks. It's how sport works. But

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Speaker 1: the growing pains of the WNBA specifically come from people

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Speaker 1: who are not allowing this sport to grow. Everyone has

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Speaker 1: an opinion. Everyone thinks the media, the media, the big

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Speaker 1: bad media, is for Caitlyn Clark. And I can see

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Speaker 1: why because some of the biggest voices with the biggest

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Speaker 1: platforms are are truly caping for her. They are laying,

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Speaker 1: they're taking off their capes and they're throwing it over

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Speaker 1: a puddle of water, and they're saying, Caitlyn, come on.

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Speaker 3: Walk over, friend, we got to help you. You're so precious.

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Speaker 1: I understand that, I truly do, but everyone doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: that way. And I do believe that what we're going

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Speaker 1: to witness in the coming days, years, or months is

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Speaker 1: a breaking point. The women who've built this league from

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Speaker 1: ninety seven are going to be fed up. They're going

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Speaker 1: to be fed up, and they're going to start saying more,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to start saying more, and that's going

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Speaker 1: to start to affect the game, and in a real way.

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Speaker 1: This is a PSA for the commissioner of the WNBA,

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Speaker 1: Kathy Ingelbert. You need to get it together. You need

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Speaker 1: to get it together. You need to know who your

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Speaker 1: players are. You need to understand what they want. You

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Speaker 1: need not be afraid of having these uncomfortable conversations, and

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Speaker 1: you need to not treat this like it's just solely

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Speaker 1: a business. You're dealing with souls. You're dealing with women

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Speaker 1: who are used to being marginalized. You're dealing with women

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Speaker 1: who have big voices. You're dealing with women who understand

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Speaker 1: right from wrong, and this freedom that they are starting

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Speaker 1: to experience. And what I mean by freedom is the attention,

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Speaker 1: the time and the money that they're making. What comes

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Speaker 1: with all of that, when you know that you are

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Speaker 1: a precious commodity, comes this ego, comes this inner voice,

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Speaker 1: and it comes at a cost. And they're not going

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Speaker 1: to let you continue. This is for you, miss Ingelbert, commissioner, Ingelbert.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to let you continue to ignore that.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to let you continue to ignore the

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Speaker 1: fact that they are being treated differently because they are

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Speaker 1: not Caitlin Clark pains all growing pains. I just hate

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Speaker 1: and I'm fed up. I just hate that we're letting

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Speaker 1: people who don't even understand the sport create this narrative.

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Speaker 1: Why do we care what RG three has to say?

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Speaker 3: Why do we care that.

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Speaker 1: RG three says he knows people in Angel Reese's inner

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Speaker 1: circle that says she does not like Caitlin Clark. Why

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Speaker 1: does he matter? Why does his voice matter? Why are

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Speaker 1: we giving him attention?

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Speaker 3: To my point earlier? Has he been a fan of

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Speaker 3: the WNBA or is this new?

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Speaker 1: His eyes tell him that Angel Reese doesn't like Kitlyn Clark.

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Speaker 1: Who cares? And I'll wrap it up with this, It's

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Speaker 1: okay to not like your opponent. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you know that this thing called sports, I'm gonna say

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Speaker 1: it every week, it's okay not to like somebody you

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Speaker 1: go up against, because you all want the same thing,

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Speaker 1: and that is to be the best. We've seen that, right.

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Speaker 1: Why is it different for women? Why do we have

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Speaker 1: to bring in Caddy? Why do we have to bring

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Speaker 1: in oh, they're jealous? Why do we have to bring

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Speaker 1: in all of these these tropes of how women interact

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Speaker 1: with other women. Why can't it just be we have

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Speaker 1: athletes who just don't get along. Athletes are like Caitlin Clark.

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Speaker 1: You don't handle the ball well. You can shoot your

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Speaker 1: ass off, but you don't handle that ball well. And

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Speaker 1: stop and stop flopping and stop acting like people are

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Speaker 1: are trying you. That's what sport is. Because the biggest

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Speaker 1: complain about Kaitlin Clark, honestly from other players, is that

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Speaker 1: she winds too much. It's everybody else's fault and that

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Speaker 1: might be her and that might be her downfall. Correct,

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Speaker 1: that might be her issue. Maybe she needs she'll work

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 3: Who knows. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's too early to tell. I don't have a firm opinion.

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Speaker 1: My opinion can be changed on that. But from what

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Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, no, she's not the top guard in

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Speaker 1: the league, not the top point guard in the league

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Speaker 1: at all, not at all, And we know that.

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Speaker 3: But that's okay.

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Speaker 1: And I just simply want us to be able to

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Speaker 1: talk about these women the way we talk about NBA players.

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Speaker 3: Narrative.

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Speaker 1: Lebron winds too much on social media. Get off of

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Speaker 1: social media. Remember back in the day, I'm old enough

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Speaker 1: to remember, we couldn't stand Lebron on social media with

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Speaker 1: all his passive aggressive tweets.

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Speaker 3: Who are you talking about? Say it? Kobe? No one

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Speaker 3: like Kobe. He was mean. He didn't get along with Shaq.

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Speaker 1: People thought Shaq was the nicest one and Kobe was

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Speaker 1: mean and he ran shack out of la. Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: was physically getting his ass handed to him when he

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Speaker 1: played for the Chicago Bulls when he went up against

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons before he finally got his first chip.

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Speaker 3: They used to physically beat.

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Speaker 1: The hell out of that man until he got in

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Speaker 1: the gym and figured it out. I go down a list,

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Speaker 1: I go down a list of narratives for NBA players,

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Speaker 1: and of surrounding all of those narratives, nobody talked about

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Speaker 1: being jealous. Nobody talked about the fact that Lebron was

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Speaker 1: mad when stuff was getting all the attention and he was.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was talking about the fact that Michael Jordan don't

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Speaker 1: really fool with Lebron like that. Maybe is Jordan jealous?

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Speaker 1: Is Jordan jealous? Was Kobe jealous? Was the Magic Johnson jealous? No, y'all,

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Speaker 1: don't even that. Don't even come in you'll mind.

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Speaker 3: Y'all make me sick. Y'all make me sick.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking to people who don't think like this,

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Speaker 1: but the rest of y'all make me sick, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's my vent. I approve that message coming up on

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Speaker 1: the show today. I love him so much. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, I've never met him, but I love him

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Speaker 1: so much. Some people are put on this planet to

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Speaker 1: give us very special messages, Messages that teach us, that

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Speaker 1: make us think, messages that challenge us. Whether you are

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Speaker 1: black or white, male or female, whatever you are. I

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Speaker 1: believe that if you listen to Garrison Hayes, heeds you

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Speaker 1: in education. So today on Naked we're gonna talk to

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Speaker 1: Garrison travels what he's been able to find out, and

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Speaker 1: I hope it's an education for you all, because there's

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Speaker 1: so much we just don't know about myself, included.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Naked Sports. I'm Carrie Champion back in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Hey, my name is Garrison Hayes. I am a journalist

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Speaker 2: and creator. I love history, I love black people. Those

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Speaker 2: are probably the most important things to know about me

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Speaker 2: from a content perspective. Originally from Atlanta, Georgia, but currently

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Speaker 2: in Nashville. So it feels really really important to tell

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Speaker 2: you that I'm from Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: Because why does it feel really important to tell me

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Speaker 1: you're from Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: Well, you live in Nashville, because I live in Nashville,

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Speaker 2: and you can't if you're from Atlanta. You can't live

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Speaker 2: in any other Southern city and be like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 2: from here. No, No, you have to let people know

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Speaker 2: I am from the southern city, especially for black people. Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 3: That's the one that matters. I got you.

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Speaker 1: I lived in Atlanta for a hot stint. I enjoy Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I was a local news reporter.

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Speaker 3: I loved it.

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Speaker 1: It was it was, it was, it was. Can I

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Speaker 1: explain Atlanta? Atlanta for me really helped me solidify my

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Speaker 1: blackness and I know that sounds crazy, but I grew

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Speaker 1: up in California. I grew up in LA and it's.

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Speaker 3: Really set apart from the rest of the world. When

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Speaker 3: you live in.

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Speaker 1: California, the isms aren't obvious, especially not when I was

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Speaker 1: growing up. Like if someone was a racist, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: know if someone didn't like me.

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Speaker 3: I really didn't.

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Speaker 1: The first place I would go wasn't about who I

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Speaker 1: was or the color of my skin because it's such

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Speaker 1: a community I grew in Pasadena, especially in Pasadena, everyone

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Speaker 1: is just it's a mixing melting pot, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what I needed to know, which brings me

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Speaker 1: to my point of wanting to bring you on how

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Speaker 1: I grew up. I didn't have storytellers passing down oral history.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know much about the black experience that my

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Speaker 1: mother had growing up, or even my grandmother for that matter,

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Speaker 1: who grew up in the South. You and I have

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Speaker 1: talked to her. I didn't have that oral history. It

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Speaker 1: just wasn't a part of my childhood. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know why, but it just wasn't. And when I got older,

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Speaker 1: I made sure that I became more and more curious,

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Speaker 1: but there was just so much. I didn't know you

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Speaker 1: as a creator, as a storyteller. As a journalist, you

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Speaker 1: do something that I find invaluable, and you are able

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Speaker 1: to reach audiences of different ages, and that is tell

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Speaker 1: stories black history. And so when you say you love

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Speaker 1: black people, you love history. That's most important. It is

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Speaker 1: evident in the work that you do. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: doing that.

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Speaker 2: No, that means a lot to me. Thank you so much, Carrie.

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Speaker 2: You know it's funny. I grew up similarly. Maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about our grandmothers today. I grew up with my nana,

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Speaker 2: who is born in the South, still alive and well

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Speaker 2: and doing great and all of that. And she told

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Speaker 2: me all of these stories about her life growing up

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Speaker 2: as a little black girl in the kind of in

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Speaker 2: the South and just outside of Atlanta, Lynnwood Park. And

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Speaker 2: the thing that I always felt when she was telling

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Speaker 2: me these stories was that I was transported back to

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Speaker 2: that time that I was living in nineteen forty whatever

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Speaker 2: it was, or fifty whatever, and I'm experiencing these things

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Speaker 2: in the moment. And so that's probably the first place

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Speaker 2: where I really fell in love with history. It was

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Speaker 2: this kind of personal oral history that I really fell

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Speaker 2: in love with and then I realized that there were

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Speaker 2: people I have this book behind me right now from

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Speaker 2: doctor Panil Joseph. There are people who study this and

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Speaker 2: then take those oral histories and the larger context and

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Speaker 2: synthesize it in a way where you can really digest it.

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Speaker 2: And I just fell in love with that really very

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Speaker 2: specific thing. And then when I realized that I could

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Speaker 2: do that, that I could be a part of that process,

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Speaker 2: it just kind of lit up my world. And I'm

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Speaker 2: so thankful that I get to do it now because

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Speaker 2: I think it's really really important to your point. A

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Speaker 2: place like Atlanta. I was just telling a friend this

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Speaker 2: last night. Atlanta is special because there is this kind

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Speaker 2: of baseline level of respect that I think you can

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Speaker 2: can kind of expect. Maybe people are disrespectful, maybe people

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Speaker 2: say disrespectful things to you, that's fine, but it isn't

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Speaker 2: because you're black in many ways, especially if you're around

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Speaker 2: black people. And there were there I've kind of been.

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Speaker 2: I grew up with that understanding, and then I moved

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Speaker 2: and I've lived all across the country and I never

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Speaker 2: really found another place where I could access that, And

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Speaker 2: so there is this kind of like baseline level of dignity,

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Speaker 2: dignity that I think certain people from Atlanta really kind

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Speaker 2: of walk around with and we're kind of looking for

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Speaker 2: it everywhere and you never why find that thing again?

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Speaker 1: My time living in Atlanta, first time I saw a

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Speaker 1: black mayor, first time I saw a black chief of police,

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Speaker 1: first time black people were running the city in a

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Speaker 1: real way. Attorneys, money, this, that, n doctors, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, is it? What is this place that I

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Speaker 1: am in? And I loved everything about it, but it

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Speaker 1: was also yeah, the first time I realized racism existed

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Speaker 1: in a very hurtful way.

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Speaker 3: Interesting because if you go.

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Speaker 1: Twenty miles out side of atlantaxt I had. I was

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Speaker 1: a local news reporter. I have photographers who refused to

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Speaker 1: go to Stone Mountain. They were like, I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to die. They grew up there and they were afraid

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Speaker 1: of certain areas because of what they knew. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's crazy, what do you mean to me?

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Speaker 1: In my mind, it didn't make any sense. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a black man. One and two I didn't

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Speaker 1: know the history YEA. So with that being said, I'm

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Speaker 1: really curious about your journey and I want to get

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Speaker 1: into specifics, but what was up And I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say breakthrough moment for you, but when did you

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Speaker 1: realize the content that you were providing was imperative in

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Speaker 1: terms of how people responded to it and how and

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Speaker 1: how it went viral if.

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Speaker 2: You were yeah, you know, there are a couple of moments.

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Speaker 2: I'll say this. I started out on YouTube, like making

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Speaker 2: videos on YouTube back in two thousand and seven. They

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Speaker 2: were silly little videos that are all private now. But

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Speaker 2: I've been kind of like telling these stories and doing

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Speaker 2: video stuff online for a while, and I put it down.

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Speaker 2: I went off to film school. I fell in love

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Speaker 2: with ministry while in college, and so I ended up

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Speaker 2: in seminary. I became a pastor for some time. So

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Speaker 2: I had this kind of crazy journey. But what I

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Speaker 2: would do as a pastor is I'd be up on

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Speaker 2: stage and I would essentially be synthesizing the things that

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Speaker 2: I'd kind of taken from the text in scripture and

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Speaker 2: then communicating it to the congregation. And what I learned

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Speaker 2: was that you can take these elements and put them

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Speaker 2: together in a way that really impacts people, that helps

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Speaker 2: them think about the world differently, think about themselves, and

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Speaker 2: others in a different way. And so when the pandemic hit,

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Speaker 2: everything at my church went online, and so I was

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Speaker 2: back to making videos on the internet, but this time

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Speaker 2: for my congregation, and I just kind of fell back

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Speaker 2: in love with that process and the ability to take

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Speaker 2: images and words and put them together in a really

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Speaker 2: neat and tight way. And my congregation was really like

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Speaker 2: enjoying it it and I was getting so much positive

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Speaker 2: feedback from them because so much of their life had

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Speaker 2: been disrupted, and so the kind of one consistent thing

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Speaker 2: was that they knew they'd see a video from me

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Speaker 2: every single week. And so, you know, of course, we

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Speaker 2: lived through twenty twenty and the kind of Black Lives

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Speaker 2: Matter moment, and by January twenty twenty one, I already

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Speaker 2: started to get this sense that so much of what

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Speaker 2: we were fighting for and protesting for was like we

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Speaker 2: were getting away from the point. And I thought a

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Speaker 2: lot of that had to do with the missing historical context,

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Speaker 2: like how we got here kind of felt like we

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Speaker 2: were starting from scratch, But we're not starting from scratch, right,

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Speaker 2: Like we have so much history that bears down on

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Speaker 2: this moment to help us kind of get to the

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Speaker 2: next moment. And that's what I wanted to do. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to take those ideas and stories and that history

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Speaker 2: and just share it. And so I started by sharing

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Speaker 2: videos of me saying here are three black books that

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Speaker 2: I think you should read on this topic, and it

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Speaker 2: really resonated. The first video I posted. One of the

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Speaker 2: first videos I posted got like one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand views, which to me is just like kind of

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Speaker 2: mind blowing. Yeah, you know, our kind of goalpost changes

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Speaker 2: over time, and so now one point fifty is like, oh, like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but that's great, Yeah, you know exactly.

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Speaker 2: But at the moment, at the time, it was like

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Speaker 2: this kind of mind blowing viral moment for me. And

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Speaker 2: that's when it really clicked that there was something here,

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Speaker 2: that there was a real thirst for this kind of

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Speaker 2: information and knowledge.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned, and this might be a series

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Speaker 1: of questions, what is the one thing that you realize

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Speaker 1: Black folks don't know about themselves in terms of their history.

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Speaker 2: It's not your fault. I think so much of the

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Speaker 2: American psyche, the way we think about the world is

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Speaker 2: looked at through the lens of the individual. So we

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Speaker 2: think about my own individual f failures and my own

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Speaker 2: individual accomplishments. You know, only recently are people starting to

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Speaker 2: admit that, like there's some degree of luck involved in

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Speaker 2: like the success of the most successful people. Right for

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Speaker 2: a long time, it was like, hey, I pulled myself

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Speaker 2: up by my bootstraps. It comes from that old story,

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Speaker 2: the rugged Dick's story of you know, this guy who

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Speaker 2: moves to New York to make it big and from

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Speaker 2: rags to riches. That's a part of the American myth.

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Speaker 2: And in some ways, I want to I want to

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Speaker 2: give it credit that it means that we are incredibly ambitious,

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Speaker 2: and we believe and we have hope and we know

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Speaker 2: that the future will be better. We always kind of

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Speaker 2: think that way, which is good in some ways. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, there are so many forces at play

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Speaker 2: that are way further upstream from your individual effort that

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Speaker 2: contribute to outcomes. And while you may be exceptional, carry

400
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Speaker 2: because you are, and maybe I am exceptional in some ways.

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Speaker 2: The reality is that most Americans exist somewhere in the middle.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's true for most Black people in

403
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Speaker 2: those conditions that we are, that we are raised in,

404
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Speaker 2: that we come up in those conditions matter and for

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Speaker 2: so many Black people, the conditions that we were like

406
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Speaker 2: brought into, that we exist in are are designed to

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Speaker 2: see us fail. And so I think if you can

408
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Speaker 2: think about some of those larger trends and some of

409
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Speaker 2: those larger elements, we can target our solutions to those

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Speaker 2: problems way more effectively. And I also think we can

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Speaker 2: walk around with a with a greater deal of dignity

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Speaker 2: and respect and belief in ourselves for what we've already overcome.

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Speaker 2: I encounter so many Black people who just have like

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Speaker 2: low racial self esteem, and it breaks my mind.

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Speaker 3: As low racial self esteem.

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Speaker 2: What I what I mean by that is that that

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Speaker 2: we take a low view of who we are. I'm

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Speaker 2: so thankful for the Black Lives Matter movement. I'm thankful

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Speaker 2: for movies like Roots, which kind of like redeemed this

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Speaker 2: idea of resilience in the enslaved individual. I'm so thankful

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Speaker 2: for the for the for the media that helps Black

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Speaker 2: people feel feel good about themselves, because there's so much

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Speaker 2: in this world designed to make us feel bad about ourselves.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what I mean when I say low

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Speaker 2: racial self esteem. It's this idea that we don't believe

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Speaker 2: that Black people are capable precisely because in so many

427
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Speaker 2: ways we've been given these narratives and these examples and

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Speaker 2: the things that they show in the news tell us

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Speaker 2: that we are less than. But the history of our

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Speaker 2: people is a history of resilience and excellence despite all

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Speaker 2: that we've been through.

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00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 1: So that is where for me, where the work is

433
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: the history. I think when you talk about us not

434
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: understanding who we are in terms of how we view

435
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: ourselves as because we don't know our history, myself included,

436
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 1: they're just things I just don't know. I could scroll

437
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: through your page and be like, I didn't know that,

438
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, I don't know. There's so much

439
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: that I didn't know. And I wish the same way

440
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: that you said your grandmother told you stories. I wish

441
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: my grandmother grew up telling my mom those stories, and

442
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: then my mom could tell my mother and my father

443
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: could tell me those stories nowadays. And this is you

444
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 1: have to be curious, and I just I just I'm

445
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: blessed that I'm curious and I'm about different things, and

446
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, so tell me why I don't understand why.

447
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: I think that is my my superpower. But when I

448
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: watch you go to the likes of a Republican National Convention.

449
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 3: It didn't.

450
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: And you sit and you talk with these black Republicans,

451
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: and we have to we have to highlight some of

452
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: these moments on the podcast. You sit and you talk

453
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 1: to these people, and it's clear, at least to me,

454
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: they don't really understand why that they are Republican. They

455
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: think they do, and they give you what we know

456
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: that is out in the Zeigeist. Well, you know, Republicans

457
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: used to be all black. You know, Democrats were racists

458
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: when they first start. They give you all of these

459
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: these generic sayings that we have heard about, but we

460
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: don't really know why when you went to the RNC,

461
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: because I went to the DNC and I loved it.

462
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: But when you went to the RC, God bless you

463
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: because that is that's God's work right there. That is

464
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: something that only Jesus put on your heart.

465
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: Amen.

466
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: Amen, Amen, because I was ready to fight. And that's

467
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: the problem. We're too emotional as a people because it's

468
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: so serious and it means.

469
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: So much, and I'm like, I am mad.

470
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So talk to.

471
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: Me about what are the reasons, just the reasons that

472
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: black Republicans exist. From the research that you've been able

473
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: to do. From those you've been able to talk to,

474
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: what are their reasonings for being in the Republican Party

475
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: today right now supporting Donald Trump.

476
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: It's such a good question. It's literally the question that

477
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: I set out to answer last summer summers. Black Conservatives

478
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: are everywhere. That's why I'm here to show my support

479
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: as a black man. But Trump polsters can't get enough

480
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: of them.

481
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: The historic levels of support the Republicans are getting from

482
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: black folk under Trump.

483
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is cozying up to them. The RNC was

484
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 2: full of President Trump.

485
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 4: We have the greatest economy in all lifetime.

486
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 2: America is not a racist country.

487
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 4: Can you imagine President Donald Trump coming to a city

488
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: and calling a pastor like me.

489
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: You've probably heard a lot of people talking about black Republicans,

490
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: but I spent all of the R and C talking

491
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: to black Republicans. So it is with being a black Conservative.

492
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 4: I equate it to being gay back in the fifties

493
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 4: our sixties.

494
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: You didn't come off the closet then.

495
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: And so you look at the people who are really

496
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 4: saying that about Trump.

497
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: It's not no up to the negroes, it's negroes out the.

498
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 5: Real hood and that's one reason why I'm pro Trump

499
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 5: and I'm a conservative, is because I truly believe in

500
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 5: the individualistic approach to the problems that we see within

501
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 5: the black community or in America as a whole.

502
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: Black Republicans specifically are some of the most disliked and

503
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: unpopular political figures within the black community for a reason,

504
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: reason reason. There were all of these headlines saying that

505
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: blackeople are going for Trump at a higher rate, and

506
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: they turned out to be right, maybe not to the

507
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 2: degree that they were right. You look at the data.

508
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: Trump gained in every single demographic among people of color,

509
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: gained with black women, gained with black men, And that

510
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: was notable to me, And it was notable. It was

511
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: kind of like becoming obvious as I was kind of

512
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: out talking to people. I talked to people in Atlanta,

513
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: I was as you mentioned the RNC, I talk to

514
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: people in New York, all across the country. And the

515
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: thing that I feel like it's important to acknowledge here, Carrie,

516
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: is that black people are if you were to really

517
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: if you were to take one singular issue out of

518
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 2: the American politics, if you were to take out racism,

519
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: like let's say that racism wasn't a political issue. Let's

520
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: say everybody was equally against racism. Black people would be

521
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: a third independent, a third conservative, a third liberal. I

522
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: think we've all very naturally across.

523
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: Wait, let's just hold for a moment. I do to

524
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: say you are absolutely right. I hate that people assume

525
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: because we're black, we're Democrats. But because we're one of

526
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: a few countries that gives you that give you only

527
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: two really viable options, you go for the lesser of

528
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: two evils. Yea, and the lesser of two evils for

529
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: many black people would be the Democratic Party. But we

530
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: are so conservative. We are so some of us are

531
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: so liberal. We don't there is We're not a monolith

532
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: the way I could be extremely liberal on some issues

533
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 1: and then very conservative on other issues.

534
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: I don't want to dig into that. I want to

535
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: know which ones you're very conservative on because I'm always curious, Like,

536
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: I don't know if we have time for that.

537
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 3: Later, Yes we do, we yes, yes, yes, we get

538
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: after you.

539
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: So so so you found out like if racism wasn't

540
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: an issue, we'd be one third this one or that

541
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: one third whatever.

542
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay, So let let's get I want to.

543
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: I want to talk at least for a moment about

544
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: the data the research that HIT Strategies did. My good

545
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: friends over at HIT Strategies, they they pulled black people

546
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: around their political ideologies and political leanings, and one of

547
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: the things that they found was that across the spectrum, yes,

548
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: there are these different factions, these ways that black people

549
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 2: are thinking about politics, but for those who identify with

550
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 2: the Republican Party the most, race and racism are actually

551
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: lowest on their priority list. They don't care as much

552
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: about that. So that's that's part of it that's important

553
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: to say of a party. It is actually very fascinating

554
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: that that there are a group of black people in

555
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: this country, obviously a minority, that don't see the forces

556
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: of racism at work in the black community, on individuals whatever.

557
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: They don't see that as a real problem, and that

558
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: is probably the biggest gateway into today's Republican Party for

559
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: black people. And so when I talk to them, let's

560
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: let's let's get some of those those stories in here.

561
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: When I talk to them, they talk about economic issues,

562
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: they talk about abortion issues, So that's kind of a

563
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: socially conservative kind of issue that they have. There of

564
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: course that means that they're also issue with with the

565
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: LGBTQ movement. A lot of times it is specifically the

566
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: rise of trans visibility. I won't say that there are

567
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: more trans people, they are just more visible trans people today,

568
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: and so they take issue with this and they see

569
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: that as this kind of negative force in the country.

570
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: And when I push on those things like well, what

571
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: difference does it make if there are gay people getting

572
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: married or they're trans people going through their own individual things,

573
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: like what difference does it mean? There are very rarely

574
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: satisfying answers for me. That's my opinion.

575
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: They's the answer. What's the overall sentiment?

576
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: A lot of times it's that it's being pushed on

577
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: the kids, And I think that I think that's insane.

578
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: Can I just be honest, I think that's crazy.

579
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 3: Why? Why is that crazy?

580
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: I think it's crazy because visibility. I grew up I

581
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: mean back to Atlanta. I grew up in Atlanta in

582
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: the nineties and two thousands, when there was a great

583
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 2: deal of gay visibility in the city. Everyone And it's

584
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: finily like saying like Atlanta's like the gay, black gay mecca,

585
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, in the nineties, in the two thousands. I

586
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: have a very close cousin who unfortunately passed away, but

587
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: I grew up with a cousin who was trans or

588
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: is trans, and I have plenty of gay I'm not gay.

589
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: I'm around them in like a really intimate, you know,

590
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: close relational way. This is my family, these are my friends.

591
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: And I'm not gay because I wasn't. I'm not gay

592
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: because I'm not gay. I don't And so I don't

593
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: think that seeing more trade people means that I'm going

594
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: to suddenly switch into being a trans person. And so

595
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: I think the idea of being pushed on is manufactured.

596
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: It's really just the visibility that they have an issue with.

597
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: It's the visibility.

598
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: So when when trans people existed and it wasn't as

599
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: as known or as around the corner or social media

600
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: or holiday, it was fine because it was done behind

601
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: closed doors. But now that it's out in public, do

602
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: you find that really bothers people on the Republican side,

603
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: especially the blacks.

604
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: Who who are who are are joining the party.

605
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, and you see, and you see I mean

606
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: back to your point about the conservatism of black people.

607
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: You know, black people are still the most churched demographic.

608
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say. We are churchy,

609
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: We see churchy folks.

610
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: You know, there are ideas in many churches around the

611
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: role that women are supposed to play, queer issues, right

612
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: like whether or not people should or shouldn't be gay,

613
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: whatever that might mean. There are all of these ideas,

614
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: these ecclesial and the theological and missiological ideas, and it's

615
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: worth saying that some of those things are creating pathways

616
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: for black folks specifically to be kind of ushered into

617
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, conservatism and Republicanism specifically.

618
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so you're so let me just say from

619
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: the research you've done and what you think you've been

620
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: able to ascertain that like the church aspect, the conservative aspect,

621
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: churchy black folks, that like, yes, I am a Republican.

622
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: So let's get into my grandmother. I have said on

623
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: the show, and I have said on every show CNN here,

624
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: my grandmother voted for Donald Trump. She's ninety five years old.

625
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: FI se as can be mine's mostly there. I would

626
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: say if I said to say, because you know, because

627
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, you lose a little, if I'd give her

628
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: eighty five percent, you know, mostly good days, mostly good days,

629
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: but smart enough to tell me most recently, she made

630
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: a mistake. We've heard that before. What are we supposed

631
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: to hold on that mistake with? Told me to make

632
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: sure I save my money because with this man now

633
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: in charge, she can see that bad times are coming.

634
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: She then gave me a list of things to do

635
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: because she said, I've been here before, and I know

636
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: it's going to be tight, so you just pay attention

637
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: to ABC and D. My next question, naturally, was like, well,

638
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: why would you vote for him and her philosophy while

639
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: not you know, she's not going to be as eloquent

640
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: and explain it all to me and give me the

641
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: historical perspective. But she was just like, I churchy, Kamla

642
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: wore too many pants her pants suit, Like, wow, he's

643
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: just too bossy.

644
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: What have you seen me?

645
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: Who you gave right to this? She didn't birth me,

646
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: but you raised me. Could you say that about this

647
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: woman who I in many ways align with because of

648
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: who Kamala Harris is and what she's been through and

649
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: her struggle and trying to figure it out. She's like, yeah,

650
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: but you know you don't need to be doing all that.

651
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: You don't need to live in New York and in

652
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: la you don't need to. It's a very simple mind

653
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: your business mindset, go to church, come home, work, have

654
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: some kids, have a family, mind your business.

655
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: But that still wasn't.

656
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: Enough for me because Karsen, she was the first in

657
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: many ways in my family to do so many things.

658
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: She was married to a man who was abusive, she

659
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: left him. Women didn't do that back then, that's right.

660
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: She raised two kids on her own. Women didn't do

661
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: that back then. They went and got married again and

662
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: again and again. Because the mrs was more important than independence.

663
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: She then was the first person in our family to

664
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: travel outside the country. She was like, you know, I

665
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: deserve I wanted to be a Hollywood movie star. It

666
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: never happened, But what I'm going to start doing is

667
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: traveling around the world. Like some of the favorite films

668
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: that she used to watch that she wanted to actually

669
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: go and visit a London or a Paris, and she'd

670
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: come back with this dollars, you know, their version of

671
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: their money, whether it was the Euro.

672
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: Or or whatever it was.

673
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: She would come back and say, look, and she would

674
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: explain her travels to us, and it was really a

675
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: beautiful thing.

676
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: And as she's.

677
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: Sitting here telling me this, I'm like, you're so independent,

678
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: You so are aligned with Kamala, You're so aligned with

679
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: women today who are saying, look, yes and yeah, I

680
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: want that, But if I don't, I'm gonna have to

681
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: go make it on my own. I'm not going to

682
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: be in the circumstances that life says I should have.

683
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: So why in the world do you still feel this way?

684
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: And what I have come to learn is that we

685
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: and I don't want to use the word hypocritical, but

686
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: we are such a complicated people. I can tell you

687
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: that I don't think transgender athletes should be in high school.

688
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: And the reason why I think that is because there's

689
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: not enough research. There isn't enough money, and there isn't

690
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: any testing done to make sure that there is parody

691
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: in the sense that most recently in California, in Clovis,

692
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: there was a transgender track and field athlete and she

693
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: wanted to run and there were a lot of parents protesting.

694
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: And I didn't like that they were protesting her because

695
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: she was a child. But what I understood was is

696
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: this fair. I know that this person takes hormones, I

697
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: know the science is here that says that she is

698
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: probably the same as my daughter, but we really don't

699
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: know enough because high school. High schools don't give you

700
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: that budget to go and do what you would do

701
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: on a collegiate level, or what you would do on

702
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: an Olympic level or in a professional level. I have

703
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: no problem on all of these other levels where testing

704
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: is done and people are making sure that your hormones

705
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: are equal and there's no unfair advantage, and that you're

706
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: competing the same way that everybody's competing next to you.

707
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: I have no problem with that.

708
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: But then I talked to a really good friend of mine,

709
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: and she has a daughter in high school, and she said,

710
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: if I didn't have a daughter playing sports in high school,

711
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: I would not believe the way I believe. But I

712
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: truly believe it shouldn't be done in high school. I

713
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: watch my daughters compete. I watch them lose when they're

714
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: going up against girls who are better than them and

715
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: they are the best, and I watch them lose, and

716
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: I see how hard it is for them. And if

717
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: someone seemingly has an unfair advantage, I am going to

718
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: take issue with that. I know it sounds shocking, and

719
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: scary and uncomfortable to say, but that's what I believe,

720
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: and it makes people uncomfortable. But I know at the

721
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: same time, I have no problem with gender affirming care.

722
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: I have no problem with trans people living their own lives.

723
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: They're not bothering me. Do you do whatever you want

724
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: to do? And you know, here comes the my best

725
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: friends are gay, you know what I mean? Like my

726
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: best friends are white? No, my best friends are black.

727
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: No.

728
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: I have no problem with any of that.

729
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to respond to it because I hear

730
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 2: you and I and I don't think it's an insane thing.

731
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: I actually think we need way more of these kinds

732
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 2: of conversations, you know. And maybe we should bring a

733
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: trans person into the conversation.

734
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 3: I would love that.

735
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be amazing. And I think the point that

736
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: you make is well taken that we might not know.

737
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: We might not I don't think we do information and

738
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 2: I don't think we do, you know. But the chilling

739
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: effect of this conversation nationally is that it has become

740
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: politicized to even study this. It's become politicized and frowned

741
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: upon to even look into it to get that critical information,

742
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: that data that we need to be able to understand

743
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 2: it better the part of the way I think about it.

744
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: And to be fair, I don't have a high school athlete.

745
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: I don't have someone who's you know, a child that's

746
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 2: competing or anything like that, and so and so I

747
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: come to this conversation with a great deal of humility.

748
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: But but what I will say is that the number

749
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: of trans people just in general is so low that

750
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: it feels like this conversation is way larger than it

751
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 2: should be, right.

752
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: Okay, Garrison, Garrison. I say this all the time. I'm

753
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: seeing it, and this isn't an issue. This isn't an

754
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 1: issue exactly because it's a non issue. But if people

755
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: ask you what do you feel, I would say there

756
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: are some some things that I'm Probably people would say

757
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm conservative on sure, government programs. I'm like, okay, some

758
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: of them, but not all of them. Like I because

759
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: the way my taxes work so and because because sometimes

760
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: I know they're being abused and people are taking advantage

761
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: of the system.

762
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: I don't think you have to get rid of you

763
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: got to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

764
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: But yes, I am about reform, not necessarily a doge reform,

765
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: but I'm about reform and making it better.

766
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 3: But that is me.

767
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: These are my individual rights. It goes back to your

768
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: initial assertion that we are all not one thing. We

769
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: are a third this, and we're a third that. And

770
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: if we had to go through individual items or issues

771
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: that decide how we vote, morality, you name it, guess

772
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: what we would all be all over the place. We

773
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be in the Democratic Party, which is why I

774
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: wish there wasn't a Democratic Party. But to your point,

775
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: trans athletes is not an issue at all. There are

776
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand, I believe, of five hundred thousand college athletes,

777
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: how many are transgender?

778
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 3: Maybe a dozen, Yeah, maybe a dozen.

779
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: It's not even it's not even a real issue. And

780
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: so I agree with you it has become politicized. But

781
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: when things are politicized, we're afraid to talk about it.

782
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: And I don't think what I said was offensive, and

783
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: I don't think that I am saying I don't want

784
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: to be around transgender people and they should not compete.

785
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: But the way we hear information today forces us to

786
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: say this person took this side when there's just so

787
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: much nuance in the conversation.

788
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. It's

789
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: interesting to me that that I think, you know, we

790
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 2: get pulled into these kind of traps in so many ways, right,

791
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: Like you you think about even the way that you know,

792
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: the issue of abortion is kind of talked about, and

793
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: even you know, to your point about social welfare and

794
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: these government assistance programs and the way that they are

795
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: constantly politicized by highlighting kind of the extreme cases like

796
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: perhaps there are, no doubt people who are taking advantage

797
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: of so many things, but you know what, there are

798
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: also corporations that are taking advantage of social were for

799
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: welfare programs.

800
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 3: To be right, I'm talking all across the board.

801
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm not just talking about I'm talking across the yes,

802
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: from top to bottom.

803
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And so I guess what I'm trying to

804
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: kind of get at here is to say that I would,

805
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, it would be unfortunate in the world that

806
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: I want to live in where we are making rules

807
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: based on these kind of far away exceptions and in

808
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: so many ways. I think this stuff comes back to

809
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: this idea of a multi racial, diverse democracy. And you know,

810
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: multiracial democracy is one where black people, white people, Latino

811
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 2: people Whoever, as long as you are an eligible citizen,

812
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 2: you are able to participate and have your voice heard

813
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: in this country. But I also think about, you know,

814
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: the ways in which you know, women are often pushed

815
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 2: outside of the frame, or the ways that queer people

816
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: are pushed outside of the frame. And I just want

817
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: to live in a country where everyone has a place

818
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: and everyone can contribute to the to the conversation in

819
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 2: an equal way, and people aren't being relegated and pushed

820
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: outside because they are different. And I actually feel like

821
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: in so many ways we're getting away from that. As

822
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,760
Speaker 2: a baseline, I think that folks really want their group

823
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: or maybe even just themselves, to have a voice. But

824
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 2: part of what made the civil rights movement so special

825
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: in the nineteen forties, fifties, and sixties was this idea

826
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: of coalition building where you have, you know, on the

827
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: legal front, you know on the racial front, on the

828
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: gender front, you have so many people coming together on

829
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: the immigrant status front. You have all of these groups

830
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: coming together under the same banner that rights people should

831
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: have them. At a baseline, I think people should have rights,

832
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 2: and they're able to come together on that particular point

833
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 2: and move the needle in a really powerful way by

834
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: working together. And I think so much of the Right

835
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: Wings project is to get us to think extremely individually.

836
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: So that's the thing that they're wanting for us to do,

837
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 2: is to think so singularly about ourselves that we are

838
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: unable to see the power in thinking about each other.

839
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: Well, the times were different, right, there were things that

840
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: we just didn't have. The civil rights movement was to

841
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: give to have these people treat us civilly.

842
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: We didn't know.

843
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: Our humanity did not exist and it still doesn't in

844
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: many ways. And I'm not talking about us as black people,

845
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: but every marginalized group, their humanity did not exist, and

846
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: so they everyone had to come together because they did

847
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: want to be recognized as a human being first and

848
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: then everything else after that.

849
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: So they were fighting for something that was really tangible

850
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 3: and needed. So I agree with you. So now here

851
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: we are and we think we've made it.

852
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: A lot of people have this complacency, and the Republican Party,

853
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: to your point, has made it feel like they're taking

854
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: something from you.

855
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: You are being.

856
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: Hurt, and the only reason why people respond to that

857
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: is because they feel that they are better I do.

858
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: What is this the best quote? And I can't.

859
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was Roosevelt who said it,

860
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: but it was something to the effect. And maybe you know,

861
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: a man will give his last dime, We'll spend all

862
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: of his money to make sure that he feels like

863
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: he's better in the next I e. The black man,

864
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: the immigrant, the whomever, the woman. I will do whatever

865
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: it takes so people know that I am higher. There's

866
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: a hierarchy that this country was built on, and it's

867
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: a hierarchy that they want to put in play. I

868
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: would love to live in a world where, to your point,

869
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: where we all saw each other for who we are.

870
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: But I don't think where we are today is I

871
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: don't know if that's feasible. And what I mean by

872
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: that garrison is that we are all we as a culture,

873
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: we're so selfish.

874
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're so selfish. We're all about us.

875
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: You're right, But I want to kind of point to

876
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: two times, kind of quickly. I think you make this

877
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: really good point that we were fighting, or they were

878
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: fighting our ancestors. I spend so much time reading this

879
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: stuff that I always.

880
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 3: It's still us, it's in us, it's right, and our

881
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: spirit of us. Yes, yes, but.

882
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: They were fighting. You're You're totally right. They're famed for

883
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: some for some very basic things like like please let

884
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: me walk on the sidewalk.

885
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, please let me eat here in this restaurant?

886
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah?

887
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: Can I drink out of this water fountains? Can I

888
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: go to that bathroom?

889
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: Exactly? Like It's incredibly basic, And I think that is

890
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: the silver lining. In so many ways, things were so

891
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: bad that boycotting the buses was just like, yeah, I'm

892
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 2: gonna not go face these social indignities of being forced

893
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: to the back or having to stand up when some

894
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: white boy walks in onto the bus, and so like

895
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: that that part of it made it in some ways easier,

896
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: I think, to get on board with the movement for progress,

897
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: and I think a silver lining in this time when

898
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: you see millions of people currently set to lose healthcare coverage,

899
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: that will be millions more people who are more passionate

900
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: than ever before about universalizing healthcare. That will represent millions

901
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: of people who are like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait,

902
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: this is not working. The way that we're trying to

903
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: do this and the way that we've can talk to

904
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 2: these things are being talked about, it isn't working, and

905
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: so that kind of reminds me of the sixties, but

906
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: it also reminds me of twenty twenty. I think the

907
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter kind of moment in twenty twenty is sharpened,

908
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: it's made that much more effective by this collective sense

909
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: that we'd all kind of been just jarred into that, like, wait,

910
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: there's a virus that's killing people and it could get me,

911
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: and I could have it and I could give it

912
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: to someone I love. Like that kind of it shook

913
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: us out of this individual kind of way of thinking.

914
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: And there are people who are shaking very hard to

915
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: get back into it right, who are working incredibly hard

916
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: to make sure that you didn't wear a mask and

917
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: that you didn't think about your neighbor. But for millions

918
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: of people around the globe, there was this awakening, this

919
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: moment of awareness. And a lot of that awakening existed

920
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: beyond just there, you know, racial justice, It existed in

921
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: healthcare and all these but it got funneled into this moment.

922
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 2: When people saw George Floyd with a knee on his neck,

923
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 2: people like, wait, that's wrong, and we've got to do

924
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 2: something about it. And I think that collected that we

925
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: idea is something that I anticipate will come back as

926
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: things get tighter, Like your grandmother is kind of getting

927
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 2: at us. Things get tighter, sure, you know what I mean,

928
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: there's less margin. People are going to start thinking about, like,

929
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 2: how do we work together to make this play better?

930
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: You know, Garrison, I what we're dealing with right now,

931
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: I think is what it's supposed to be. History always

932
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: repeats itself, and I think that we have to get

933
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: down to the basics. Right what we just talked about,

934
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: what our ancestors were fighting for, the basics. The basics

935
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: now are different. Whether it be universal health care, whether

936
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: it be gender affirming rights, whether it be immigration, whatever

937
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: it is, we are all going to have to get

938
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: down to the basics. And I believe America gets what

939
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: it deserves. And that's not a bad thing. I just

940
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: believe America gets what it deserves. And so if this

941
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: is what America wants, this is what America has until

942
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: it can be changed. Now, when you are dealing with

943
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: these when you're talking to these Republicans, Black Republicans more specifically,

944
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: I must admit this is my blind side. I love

945
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: you for doing it. I'm not emotionally mature enough to

946
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: have those conversations. I'm not and I want to be.

947
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: That's why I brought you on. And I wonder when

948
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: approaching someone who you think should be aware of obvious

949
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: racism in a party, in a political party, when you say,

950
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: that's really low on their list of why I am

951
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: or why I'm upset what's going on in the world.

952
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: I rarely meet, rarely meet.

953
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: Black people who put racism at the bottom of the

954
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: total pole. Yeah, why do you think that is? What

955
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: is that ideology?

956
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 2: You know, it's complex, it's complicated, and I don't you know,

957
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's any one thing. I think

958
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: part of it is a defense mechanism if I could

959
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: just like give grace to it. I think to your

960
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: point about like talking to these people across differences, part

961
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 2: of what I try to do is to really listen

962
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: and actually to listen with good faith, to say, like

963
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: I'm assuming this the probably is I really want to

964
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 2: assume that you are coming from a place of good

965
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: faith and that you mean what you say, and that

966
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: you're doing it for the good read for the right reasons,

967
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 2: like you just want a better future for your kids

968
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: and all this stuff, and like I'm just gonna assume

969
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 2: that coming into the conversation. And so when I'm listening

970
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 2: to these people, and I think there is a degree

971
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: to which I've kind of become aware of these kind

972
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: of defense mechanisms to some of this stuff exist. As Like,

973
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: I think about how in so many instances I've noticed

974
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: this where black Republicans are black maga. They're the ones

975
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: who are gonna wear the shirt that says I stand

976
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump, and they're gonna have the hat on.

977
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 2: And I look at that and like, on the one hand,

978
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: you could say, like, y'all are shucking and giving okay,

979
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 2: that could be a response, But on the other hand,

980
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 2: there is something, there is a defense mechanism in there.

981
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of how sometimes people will

982
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: put like that thin blue line sticker on their car

983
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: to indicate to the police that I support the police.

984
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. Is that a thing you can?

985
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, people do that and it'll insulate you a little bit,

986
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: I think from kind of the most vicious elements of

987
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 2: perhaps police brutality or them being maybe more on guard.

988
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: And I think similarly for people who especially operate in

989
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: these white spaces that had and those kind of like

990
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 2: emblems are almost a defense, like they set up a

991
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 2: little bit of a barrier between them and the anti

992
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: blackness or racism that they are very likely to encounter. Otherwise,

993
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 2: it marks them as a safe person and it kind

994
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: of invites them into a community. And so I think

995
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: that's a part of it. I think a part of

996
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: it is that there is a fraternity. There is a

997
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 2: community of people who support Donald Trump, and they see

998
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: themselves as the outsiders and as the outcasts and misunderstood,

999
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: but amongst each other, they are part of something together

1000
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: in many ways, it is a cult, and so they

1001
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: are a part of the call sounds like, and so

1002
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: I kind of I think that's a part of it

1003
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 2: for sure. But then there are also issues. There are

1004
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 2: issues that they care about, and so you got to

1005
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: acknowledge the issues as well.

1006
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: When you left the rn C, and there was one

1007
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: moment and you guys should definitely follow Garrison Hayesen and

1008
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: check out his YouTube also Instagram. But when you left

1009
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: the rn C, there was a moment prior to you

1010
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: leaving where the black Republican Republicans were gathering and it

1011
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: was you said, it was a joyous event and it

1012
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: just so happens that Donald Trump's motorcade drove by, and

1013
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: they were under the impression there was a bit of

1014
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,919
Speaker 1: a frenzy for a few moments in which they thought

1015
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was coming to say hi to them, because

1016
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: they are in that special group. They are accepted. They

1017
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: are one of his if you will, cult members. Not

1018
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: necessarily cold, but you know what I mean.

1019
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 2: And then what happened, and he just drove by, and

1020
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: there was palpable disappointment in the room. I encourage people

1021
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: to go watch the video. I think the title is

1022
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: I spent a week with Black Republicans. There was some

1023
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: very very real disappointment in that moment, and and I

1024
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 2: think in so many ways it was emblematic of the

1025
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: larger issue. We're now a year or so later, and there,

1026
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 2: you know, I posted this on threads to the other

1027
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: day that I'm amazed at how little airtime Black Republicans

1028
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: have gotten in the last six months of this presidency.

1029
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 2: I mean, they were so central. It really felt like

1030
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: every day you'd see Representative Byron Donald's or you'd see

1031
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 2: Tim Senator Tim Scott. Oh, you see all these people

1032
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: out there really pushing, you know, for go support Trump

1033
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 2: and a year later. Some of those people I've literally

1034
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: not seen at all at all. Like I don't know

1035
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: where Senator Timscott is. I have no idea where the

1036
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 2: man is, and maybe I should google him, but it

1037
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: seems as though his media, you know, it's just way down.

1038
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: I say that to say that in the moment, it

1039
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: felt like they were the center of the world. I

1040
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: met this event for Black Republicans at the r n C,

1041
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: and it's this really great event, and it felt like

1042
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: Trump was coming there, but in reality he was just

1043
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 2: passing by. It feels like this real kind of almost

1044
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 2: a parable.

1045
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 3: Let's sit with that for a moment.

1046
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, they you just said they thought Trump was coming

1047
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: to visit them and be there and relate and commune

1048
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: with them, but he was just passing by. Where's Tim Scott?

1049
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,479
Speaker 1: Where are these Black Republicans that you that you had

1050
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: on stage with you at the r n C. You

1051
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: were just passing by. You were just in translation using them.

1052
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: I needed you for the moment. Thank you appreciate it.

1053
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: That is powerful, I.

1054
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 2: Think it is. There's this this this book you know,

1055
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 2: called The Loneliness of the Black Republican, and it is

1056
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 2: about the history of black people trying to just trying

1057
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 2: to find a place in American politics. And I think

1058
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: that that there's a we're living in a moment right

1059
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 2: now where black people are incredibly frustrated with the Democratic

1060
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 2: Party and and so in that frustration has also existed

1061
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,959
Speaker 2: with the Republican Party. There's a part in that book

1062
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: where Jackie Robinson and hey, we're bringing it back to

1063
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: sports Baby, where Jackie Robinson is one of the kind

1064
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: of most he's the most famous Black Republican in the

1065
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: country at the time. He's this incredibly conservative person. He

1066
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: won't call Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali because he doesn't really

1067
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 2: believe in all that job, right, Like that's kind of

1068
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: his vibe. And yet Barry Goldwater, who is this real

1069
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 2: racist and really a precursor in so many ways to

1070
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 2: what we see in Donald Trump, he was just out

1071
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: there calling for segregation and being a racist. And Jackie Robinson,

1072
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 2: who is the Republican of Republicans among black people and

1073
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 2: emissary calling black people back into the Republican Party, he

1074
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: stands up and says, I can't get on board with this.

1075
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 2: There's this moment where he's like, I'm just I can't

1076
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 2: do this, and I've been waiting for that moment among

1077
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 2: some of the more prominent black Republicans where they stand

1078
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: up and just say, Okay, this DEI stuff like the

1079
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: fact that you are leveraging this to take away access

1080
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 2: for my community. I'm waiting for them to stand up

1081
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: just say I can't do that. That's a bridge too

1082
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: far from me. Even the way that the ICE agents

1083
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: and even the National Guard have been deployed, and the

1084
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 2: just the rhetoric in general. You know, I've been waiting

1085
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 2: for that moment and is yet to come. And I

1086
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 2: think in many ways it is because American politics have

1087
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: really moved so far away from integrity and more into tribalism.

1088
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: You know, Jackie Robinson had a moral compass that led

1089
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: him for the majority of his life to vote for

1090
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: and support Republicans. That's his business. But he also had

1091
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: a moral compass that would not allow him to stand

1092
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 2: idly by while racist bigots were gaining political power in

1093
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 2: his name. And so I think I think we're we're

1094
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: kind of we've moved away from that in so many ways.

1095
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 2: And I look at some of the I won't you know,

1096
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: mention specific candidates or or specific individuals, but I look

1097
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: at some of the voices, the younger voices especially, who

1098
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: are really bringing back this moral courage to stand against

1099
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 2: the things that they stand against. And if you accept that,

1100
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 2: you accept that. If you reject it, that's your business

1101
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 2: as well. But I believe this thing and I'm going

1102
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 2: to stand up for it, and so that's encouraging me.

1103
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 2: But I'm still I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting, Carrie,

1104
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 2: I'm still waiting.

1105
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you can for our listeners, can you

1106
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: describe the history of the Republican Party from its inception.

1107
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 3: And the history of the Democratic Party.

1108
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1109
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: I think it's important because I don't know if many

1110
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: people understand the ebb and flow of the parties and

1111
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: how they have. What happens is these parties, and we

1112
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: can see this in real time with the Republican Party,

1113
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: they transform at one point as a you know, in

1114
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: my recent memory, when I was old enough to really

1115
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: pay attention, the Democratic Party was the party of the

1116
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: working class and we were they were I want to

1117
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: say we, because I'm a registered independent, but it was

1118
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 1: where you would go if you wanted to pull yourself

1119
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: up by the bootstraps and do that hard work you

1120
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: talked about and the Republicans were always the rich party,

1121
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: not that that's changed, but there is a marketing turn

1122
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: and how we describe it now. So historically speaking, what

1123
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: was the Republican Party? Did it consist of black people?

1124
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: Were they for slavery? Were they against slavery?

1125
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: Like to know how these black people could be drawn

1126
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: into Trump's political orbits. So I talked to Pastor Lorenzo Sewel.

1127
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so anyone that wants to come to church, they

1128
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 4: able to come. So when President Trump called, I thought

1129
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 4: about it like you calling me as Hey, a pastor,

1130
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 4: I want to invite a friend to church who has

1131
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 4: thirty four felonies. Hey pastor, I want to invite a

1132
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 4: friends to church who is a womanizer. Hey pastor, I

1133
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 4: want to invite a friend to church who could be

1134
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 4: a racist.

1135
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: He's the lead pastor at a black church in Detroit

1136
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: that Trump visited earlier this year. He was also a

1137
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: featured speaker at the RNC.

1138
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 4: All my friends back in Detroit, who are Democrats?

1139
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 2: I'm want to ask you just one simple question.

1140
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 4: You can't deny the power of God on this man's life.

1141
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 4: You can't deny that God protected him.

1142
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,439
Speaker 2: Could it be that.

1143
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ preserved him for such a time.

1144
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: Is this could it be? Why should black people support

1145
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: the Republican ticket and Donald Trump specifically? That's a good question.

1146
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 4: You know what I would say to any black person

1147
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 4: is this specifically about the Republican platform, I would say, look,

1148
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 4: do your research, right, I would say, look back to

1149
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 4: one hundred and seventy years ago in this state where

1150
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 4: a group of patriots stood up and they started that

1151
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 4: Grand Old Party to stop the explanchion of slavery. If

1152
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 4: a black person said, well, pastor Donald Trump's racist, the

1153
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 4: Republican Party is racist, Well, let's play that theme out

1154
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 4: throughout history. Let's look at who was the party of slavery.

1155
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 4: Who was the party of Jim Crow, Right, who's the

1156
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 4: party of you know the slave codes? Well, well, those

1157
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 4: are Democrats. Let's have that conversation. And when you look

1158
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 4: at when the Senate was integrated, those were black Republicans.

1159
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 4: When we look at our Frederick Douglass black Republican. So

1160
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 4: that's on the political side.

1161
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: I won't pretend to be a historian here. I just

1162
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: like to read the things, and so I would encourage

1163
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: you to read as well. You know, the Loneliness of

1164
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 2: the Black Republican by Leah Wright Rock here is a

1165
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 2: really good one. I think you know. There are number

1166
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: of book I love tannahse Codes Eight Years in Power

1167
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: Lost book on that topic. And so there's some history

1168
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 2: here in short, though the kind of Layman's version as

1169
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 2: a late historian in my own right, I guess, I

1170
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know if that can't even call

1171
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 2: us that.

1172
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: Don't worry like if you like, if you get it wrong,

1173
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like he got it wrong on I'm.

1174
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: Kidding rect it. What I will say is that you know,

1175
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: there was certainly a time where the Republican Party, obviously

1176
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: was the Party of Lincoln. That party fought for emancipation

1177
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 2: in its own way, not necessarily because they were pro

1178
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 2: black right, but for their own political kind of you

1179
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 2: know reasons. They they fought for slave, for the end

1180
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: of slavery. A good book for that is W. E. B.

1181
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 2: Dubois's Black Reconstruction, which is a really really good book,

1182
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: very necessary.

1183
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: Okay, that's so so sixteen nineteen too, Like she gets

1184
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: so amazing. Okay, I have it somewhere, I know you right, Yeah,

1185
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 1: for going.

1186
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: Okay, all that said, you know, obviously there are these

1187
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: kind of pro and anti and so this the Southern

1188
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: Democrats really are the anti abolition party, and like explicitly right,

1189
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 2: And so as black people gain access to participation in democracy,

1190
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 2: the natural home for black voters in the North and

1191
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 2: in parts of the South where this was allowed, especially

1192
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: during reconstruction, the natural home is the Republican Party. And

1193
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: so you see all of the first governors or in Congress,

1194
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: people and representatives in state, local officials, all those people

1195
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 2: identified as Republicans. And this was true for most of

1196
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds. But as

1197
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: the civil rights movement begins to grow in the early

1198
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds, black people are still looking for a home.

1199
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 2: And to remind you, the Republican Party was never pro black.

1200
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 2: We know that Abraham Lincoln did not believe that black

1201
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: people were equal with white people. He said so explicitly.

1202
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: And so in this moment of real tension, the kind

1203
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 2: of inflection point is that black people come back from

1204
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 2: the war World War one, World War two especially, and

1205
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: they're like, yo, I fought for this country. I deserve

1206
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 2: my rights. Who's going to help me fight for this?

1207
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: And there were decades where that was pretty unclear. But

1208
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 2: by the time you get to the fifties where there's

1209
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 2: a fight for education access and obviously the civil rights

1210
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: movement which comes in to focus in the nineteen sixties,

1211
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,959
Speaker 2: as we understand it, there becomes this kind of push

1212
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 2: and pull in JFK ultimately becomes an ally to the

1213
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: Kings around this issue, and that is in many ways

1214
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 2: how black people started to flood into the Democratic Party.

1215
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 2: Now again, doctor Leo right Roger really digs into the

1216
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 2: specifics of this in her book about Black Republicans, but

1217
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 2: that is kind of those are the larger con tours.

1218
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 2: There is this kind of push and pull around who's

1219
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 2: going to be on our side, and for a time

1220
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 2: that looked like Republicans, and after a while that became

1221
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 2: very clear that the Republicans were against it and the

1222
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 2: Democrats were for it. And the Republicans saw an opportunity

1223
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 2: what we know as a Southern strategy after the Civil

1224
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: Rights movement, where they said, if we could make ourselves

1225
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 2: more appealing to the Southern Democrats, we will be able

1226
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 2: to control the South. And so their Southern strategy is

1227
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 2: to appeal to the right white racists in the South,

1228
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: and that's how we get the modern day Republican Party

1229
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 2: is that decision with Lee Atwater in the late nineteen

1230
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies.

1231
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: I think that we have a version of that story.

1232
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who've done any and

1233
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: not a lot of people, but I think a lot

1234
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: of people who have platforms have a version of why

1235
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: that is. But you say something, and you've said it

1236
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: several times, and I think this is something we should explore.

1237
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 3: Black people are still looking for a home.

1238
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: Today then and now you're still looking for a home.

1239
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: There is not there doesn't feel it doesn't feel like

1240
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: in terms of a political party that speaks to our spirit.

1241
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: And maybe it's because one political party can't do that,

1242
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: and all black people don't belong to one political party.

1243
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: Maybe we should be spread out, as you said, one

1244
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: third this, one third that, and would.

1245
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 3: That be okay culturally? I'm curious in your mind what

1246
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 3: that would look like.

1247
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 2: I'll say this, I don't think that I don't you know,

1248
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 2: do what you want to do for people. But what

1249
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 2: I will say is, so long as the Republican Party

1250
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: is still playing by the Southern strategy playbook of appealing

1251
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 2: to racists as a way to build political power. So

1252
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 2: long as that's happening, I do not think that black

1253
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 2: people in any significant sense will ever align with that party.

1254
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we to get a little newsy.

1255
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is starting the America Party right, kind of

1256
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: potentially viable third party. But so long as Elon Musk

1257
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 2: is doing what appeared to be Nazi salutes and he's

1258
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 2: amplifying the voices of bigots on his platform, black people

1259
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: won't feel safe there. They won't feel there, And so

1260
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: in so many ways, we're between a rock and a

1261
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: hard place. We are in this really kind of difficult tension,

1262
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 2: and I'm hopeful that people will listen to that tension.

1263
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 2: I think that black political power. You know, I did

1264
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 2: a radio show around this I call it called it Red,

1265
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 2: Black and Blue. And I called it that because I

1266
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 2: wanted to put black people at the center of the

1267
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 2: kind of political story in America. And I do think

1268
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: that there is a need for someone. I don't know

1269
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: who it will be, but there needs to be someone

1270
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 2: who will actually take that seriously. In the South. Let

1271
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 2: me just make the case for taking black people seriously

1272
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: as a political force. Most black people live in the South.

1273
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: Yet black people's political will is not very well realized

1274
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: down here, precisely because Republicans have taken very seriously the

1275
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 2: idea that if they can disenfranchise and jerry mander and

1276
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 2: kind of like they're constantly being sued for getting rid

1277
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 2: of black majority districts and breaking these things up, if

1278
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,560
Speaker 2: they can do that, they can continue to win. And

1279
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 2: it feels to me that Democrats have not taken seriously

1280
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 2: that there are so many black people in Mississippi and

1281
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 2: Alabama and Georgia and Tennessee that are ready to go

1282
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 2: out and vote so long as you represent their interests.

1283
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 2: And so I'm hopeful that at some point in the

1284
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 2: near future, hopefully sooner than later, our political interests will

1285
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 2: be taken seriously.

1286
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I don't know. I don't

1287
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: know what that is. I don't know what the malaise is.

1288
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what the fear is. We are now

1289
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: and I'm watching this in real time. The current president

1290
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: and his administration has made it ingue to push the limits,

1291
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: to remove the political conversation to and what I mean

1292
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: by remove the political conversation, it's the way he talks.

1293
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: It's very it's not as if I am in an

1294
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: office of authority. There is this behind the scenes, this

1295
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: fourth wall that we are looking at, and it's very

1296
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: real and authentic, and for some reason people are fascinated.

1297
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: I've never seen the fascination with the president that I

1298
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: see with Donald Trump. I've seen it with I've seen

1299
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: it with Barack who you just recently interviewed. I've also

1300
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: seen it with President Clinton.

1301
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 3: But this is different.

1302
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: There is a fascination, maybe even a respect that I

1303
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: can't understand. I can't understand why it's okay for him

1304
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: to not be well versed. I can't understand why he

1305
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: doesn't know more than a sixth grader. I can't understand

1306
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: why he can go on television and lie and we

1307
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: know he's lying, right, but there is this compliance and

1308
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: agreement that makes it seem like this lie is okay.

1309
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: I use this example. Do you know Bill Aikman Ackman?

1310
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: You know that I don't know him personally, but I

1311
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: know who he is, so.

1312
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: He most recently, but I think purchase his way into

1313
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: a tennis tournament. A challenger is what they call it.

1314
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: It's an amateur tournament, but it's at the Hall of

1315
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,240
Speaker 1: Fame and it's in Rhode Island, and he played doubles

1316
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 1: with a tennis pro named Jack Sock, who is somewhat retired,

1317
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: semi retired.

1318
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 3: He hasn't played until twenty twenty three. This tour that he.

1319
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: Played in, this tournament that he played in is for

1320
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: people who really truly want to play tennis, who are

1321
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:49,680
Speaker 1: a journeyman in tennis, because that's a tough sport. It's expensive,

1322
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 1: you travel all the time, you need to coach, you

1323
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 1: need to spend money to get to the actual place

1324
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: to play, and it's an international sport. So they have

1325
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: these things called challengers, and they give out wild cards

1326
01:08:59,200 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: to people who are trying to get their rankings back

1327
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: up or two up and comers who are good, and

1328
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: it's done at this this particular time tournament. They have

1329
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: a ton but this particular tournament is called the Hall

1330
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: of Fame, and it is exactly that it's for the greats.

1331
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: And so somehow, some way, this sixty year old man

1332
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: gets a wild card into the tournament so he can

1333
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: live out his full dream. By way of background. By

1334
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: way of background, he's bankrolling the PTPA, which is the

1335
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: Professional Tennis Players Association he's helping bankroll that, help erase

1336
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: twenty six million dollars to get that going. So he

1337
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: has made friends with all of the greats, and he's

1338
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: casually friendly with them, and then all of a sudden

1339
01:09:38,280 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: he decides, at fifty nine, sixty years old, that he

1340
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: wants to play in a real tennis tournament. Now, you

1341
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 1: would think, because it's sports, says hey, sir, this isn't

1342
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: for amateur. This is you're not even you're sixty, You're

1343
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: not even this is not even real. This is not

1344
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,799
Speaker 1: even a real thing. And when he played those two sets,

1345
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: it was so uncomfortable to watch this man barely get

1346
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: the ball across the net. But what that, to me

1347
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 1: says is that we are living in a country where

1348
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: it's okay to push the limits and see who's going

1349
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: to say what, because no one is saying anything. If

1350
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: I have money, if I have power, if I have access,

1351
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: which has always been the case, but now I'm just

1352
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 1: doing it so blatantly. And that's what I believe this

1353
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: administration has allowed to happen. If you see this as

1354
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: an example, why not me. If this man can get

1355
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: on TV and ask for a plane for another country,

1356
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: if I if I could, if I could sit in

1357
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: your office and be Benjamin NETANYAHUU and hand you a

1358
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 1: letter for a Nobel Peace Prize nomination because you deserve

1359
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: it for what I don't know why. Because he solved,

1360
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,680
Speaker 1: He solved, there's a world peace in Africa. Now, No,

1361
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: there's not, like come on, but there is something about

1362
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:51,919
Speaker 1: this fascination that I can't quite understand. And I feel

1363
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: like while we are looking for a home as a

1364
01:10:53,960 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: people that they're really truly is no place for us

1365
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 1: that makes sense right now, And I don't know why

1366
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: there's a silence around it.

1367
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 3: That's my question to you.

1368
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 2: This is this is what I'll say, Carrie. First of all,

1369
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 2: like I'm thankful for platforms like this where we're having

1370
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 2: these conversations and so hats off to you for that.

1371
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: But you know, we have a good friend in Angela Rye,

1372
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 2: who is who's who organized this State of the People

1373
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 2: Power tour along with a few others, and I think

1374
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 2: it was exactly right. It was rightly timed. And I

1375
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 2: love the places that they chose to kind of host these,

1376
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 2: you know, these gatherings. One was in Louisville, Kentucky. They

1377
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: had one in Mississippi and Jackson, Mississippi, and Baltimore and

1378
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 2: all of the Troy and Atlanta, all these amazing places

1379
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 2: where there are lots of black people. And I think

1380
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 2: it's the right thing and at the right time. And

1381
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. You know, after the civil rights

1382
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 2: movements success, there were all of these groups that came

1383
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,560
Speaker 2: together to make sure that they could build a necessary

1384
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 2: political power to have the America that they wanted to have.

1385
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 2: Now I think we are living in the America that

1386
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 2: they imagined right now. And Donald Trump is generational TV talent,

1387
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 2: Like I think that's part of it, right, Like he

1388
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 2: gets on here the Apprentice, the apprentcess, he gets a

1389
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 2: mic in a camera, you fry it. This guy is

1390
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 2: like you really good, He's really really good. And that's

1391
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 2: how he kind of gets so much attention. And so

1392
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 2: he is kind of the figurehead in some ways, he's

1393
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 2: the face of something much more strategic over a much

1394
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 2: longer time. I do not believe that Donald Trump, who

1395
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: did not know Liberia was an American colony. I don't

1396
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: think that he really understands the intricacies of the Office

1397
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 2: of the OMB or or the way to like, you

1398
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying the al I don't think he

1399
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: knows all of these kind of minute laws, in these

1400
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 2: little codes that they're now leveraging to kind of carry

1401
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,719
Speaker 2: out this agenda. So I don't give him that much credit.

1402
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 2: I give him credit for being able to talk really,

1403
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: really good on TV, but I don't give him credit

1404
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 2: for being able to actually lead. And the reason why

1405
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 2: they're getting things done is because there was a fifty

1406
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,879
Speaker 2: year plan in place that was intent on undermining the courts,

1407
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,680
Speaker 2: that was intent on undermining the media, the press, that

1408
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 2: was intent on undermining the university. That's what was in place.

1409
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 2: They established the Federalist Society so that they could interpret

1410
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: laws in a really conservative, regressive way, and they could

1411
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 2: lobby and raise a ton of money to make sure

1412
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: that those lawyers and legal minds ended up as judges,

1413
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 2: so that when they got to twenty twenty five and

1414
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 2: the person did whoever was in office, did the thing

1415
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 2: that they've been planning to do. When those things, when

1416
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 2: lawsuits were brought against them, they would end up winning

1417
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: because they had already stacked the deck on the court level.

1418
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 2: They did what they set out to undermine the press

1419
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 2: and to create alternative forms of media, so that there

1420
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: would never be the ability to undermine what they say right,

1421
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 2: to completely pull apart the concept of truth. They set

1422
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 2: out to kind of jerry mander and to win on

1423
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: state and local levels for decades so that they could

1424
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 2: enact their vision for America on every single level. And

1425
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 2: I think right now you mentioned that I talked to

1426
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 2: President Barack Obama recently. One of the things that I

1427
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 2: asked him is like, you know, where are you. Everyone's

1428
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 2: wondering where you've been, and they want you to be

1429
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 2: more out there. And he told me he's like, hey,

1430
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm out here. But the thing that he kind of

1431
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 2: talked about that I took note of was that through

1432
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,799
Speaker 2: the foundation, the Obama Foundation, they've been building all kinds

1433
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 2: of you know, necessary leadership kind of capital. They've been

1434
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 2: building up these young leaders who they want to lead

1435
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:05,000
Speaker 2: in the future. And I appreciate that future focused idea

1436
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,679
Speaker 2: because I think in so many ways Democrats are really

1437
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 2: focused on the moment. They want to win in twenty

1438
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 2: twenty six. They want to win back the House, they

1439
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 2: want to win the presidency in twenty twenty eight, But

1440
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 2: really you need the kind of vision that will look

1441
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 2: forty years down the road and say this is the

1442
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 2: kind of America I want to live in, or I

1443
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 2: want my children to live in, or maybe my grandchildren

1444
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 2: to live in in forty years, And how do I

1445
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 2: reverse engineer a plan that gets us there? And so,

1446
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,679
Speaker 2: to bring you full circle, I think that what Angela

1447
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 2: and the State of the People Power Tour are doing

1448
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 2: is that's a kind of a necessary part of that

1449
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: larger push to have in America that we will want

1450
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 2: to live in in a decade or twenty years, or

1451
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 2: thirty years or forty years. And I think a lot

1452
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 2: of people are neglecting that. And so what's the response

1453
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 2: to the Federalist Society who's putting together an organization that

1454
01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: can put more progressive people, you know, humans entered judges

1455
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 2: on the bench, you know what I mean? Like, who's

1456
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 2: doing that? Because ultimately, Carrie, I want us to win

1457
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 2: on the issues of humanity. I really want to win

1458
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 2: on racist I don't want racism to win. I want

1459
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 2: to beat racism up, guys, And I don't think that's

1460
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: too much to ask. And I'm hoping that there are

1461
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 2: people who are thinking strategically about bringing that vision to reality.

1462
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: You say, you know, you say what I say. I

1463
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder there's I hope there's somebody who's

1464
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 1: doing it right now. I hope there's somebody who's doing

1465
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: it right now. Have you ever thought of doing it

1466
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: right now? My friends always say that to me. My

1467
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: friends are like, you always want to say something. Why

1468
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: don't you just be the change? I said, I'm participating

1469
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 1: in the way in which I have been blessed to participate.

1470
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: I am doing the work that I can, the work

1471
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: that I know that I have the capacity to do.

1472
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: But there is a part of me that looks at

1473
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:48,879
Speaker 1: the looks at you, or looks at other people and think.

1474
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 3: This would be a great leader.

1475
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 1: I want he run And it's easy to pass the buck,

1476
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 1: and it's easy to ask someone else to do it

1477
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 1: because we see something in them. But I also know,

1478
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: and I don't know, if you struggle with this when

1479
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: people ask me that I struggle with and if I'm

1480
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 1: being really candid and naked, I struggle with, well, how

1481
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: does this affect me personally? How am I going to

1482
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 1: if I say something so real and so honest, Will

1483
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 1: I ever be able to make a living? Will I

1484
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: be ostracized out of the community that I've known. Most recently,

1485
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: I've had two different people say, well, be careful. You

1486
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: know you're on CNN.

1487
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 3: Be careful, got be careful, be fighting with them white

1488
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 3: people on TV. Gotta be careful.

1489
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: It makes me angry to my core when I hear that.

1490
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: And my response has been and I shouldn't be defensive,

1491
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: but my response is, was Harriet Tubman careful?

1492
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 2: Real?

1493
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 1: What if she decided that she didn't want to do

1494
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: anything for the people so that they could be free?

1495
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,360
Speaker 1: What if Martin Luther King Junior got tired? What if

1496
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,799
Speaker 1: Malcolm X got tired and said no to be careful?

1497
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: We would not be able to enjoy the freedoms that

1498
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 1: we have today. And I truly understand that this country

1499
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 1: is only held together by a few individuals that really

1500
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: care for the country as a whole in the way

1501
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,640
Speaker 1: in which you describe it. But do you ever struggle

1502
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 1: with that? Do you ever struggle with.

1503
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 3: Am I doing too much? Am I saying too much?

1504
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 3: Will this cost me down the line? What does my

1505
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 3: future look like if I continue on this path?

1506
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,719
Speaker 2: No? Absolutely, absolutely, I think about you know, future kids.

1507
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 2: I don't have kids today, but I think about a

1508
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 2: future you know, or my family or any of that.

1509
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, you are a public figure, so

1510
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 2: you know that there are crazy folks out there are

1511
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 2: who are dming you something nuts right now?

1512
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 1: Right, No, they're not even they're not even respectful enough

1513
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 1: to make it a DM. It's under my comments, so

1514
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: it's not even they can't even hide it. They're like,

1515
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: just because I hate you, you idiot, sin right, They're

1516
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: like a real person on the other side of it.

1517
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:05,560
Speaker 1: Problem is talking talking to me so raggedy. I was

1518
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: so unfortunate.

1519
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 2: Sideways, I hear you. I think about that stuff often,

1520
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 2: and so yeah, you know, I don't know. I think

1521
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 2: that truthfully, like we are already leaders in this work.

1522
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:22,599
Speaker 2: Their media matters. I really believe in it, and I

1523
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 2: believe that telling the truth matters. Your voice is important,

1524
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 2: and it's important to use it in a way that

1525
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 2: helps liberate people. And so I do think that that

1526
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 2: in some ways we are already doing this. I know

1527
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 2: that your question is more so like official kind of

1528
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 2: elected leadership, and I don't know about that. I don't

1529
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: know if anything like that is in my future, but

1530
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 2: I do I really enjoy being able to again tell

1531
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 2: the truth and be able to to kind of tell

1532
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:52,200
Speaker 2: these stories, as I've said earlier, that are often you know,

1533
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 2: left untold and and the way it might inspire someone.

1534
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this. You know, I got an email

1535
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: year from a parent who said, Hey, I'm watching your videos.

1536
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 2: I do this series called About That Life where I

1537
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 2: talk about you know, these black these radical kind of

1538
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:13,679
Speaker 2: resistance black history figures usually and it's not just only

1539
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 2: black people, but it's usually black people who did something

1540
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 2: and pushed for some change and bucked against the status quo.

1541
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 2: And this mom, she's like in Texas. She says, Hey,

1542
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm a homeschool mom here in Texas. I have a

1543
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,680
Speaker 2: cohort of other moms and we all come together and

1544
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 2: I screenshot your videos and take the information from your

1545
01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 2: videos and it is a part of our curriculum. And

1546
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 2: I'm like mind blown by this, like what she's going

1547
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 2: through all this work, and it encouraged me because it

1548
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: means that it's effective and it's helping someone. And there's

1549
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 2: gonna be some kid who now knows about Charles Hamilton

1550
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 2: Houston and he would not have known about that guy otherwise,

1551
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,800
Speaker 2: perhaps especially in the state like Texas. And so now

1552
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 2: he's gonna kind of like or she is going to

1553
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 2: learn and maybe be better and be more effectively as

1554
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 2: a result of it. And so I think what we're

1555
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 2: doing is important, and I think is important that we

1556
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 2: continue to do.

1557
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: It in the way in which we can do it,

1558
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: in the way in which it makes sense and feels authentic.

1559
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 2: That's all.

1560
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 1: I just want to be able to feel like I'm

1561
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: really being true to myself. There are times in which

1562
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:17,080
Speaker 1: I'm measured and yes, and I have a filter, but

1563
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, at my core, I'm just saying, recognize our

1564
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: humanity we deserve. It's not right. And by the way,

1565
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: it's not just for black people. I feel that way

1566
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: across the board. I'm the kind of person if I'm

1567
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 1: walking down the street and I see somebody getting treated unfairly,

1568
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, hold on.

1569
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 3: My friends have told me before, mind your business, get

1570
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 3: beat up in New York. Mind your business.

1571
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm effis myja business? You're gonna get beat up

1572
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: in New York.

1573
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:41,559
Speaker 2: But I am the.

1574
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 1: Person just like, well, that's not right, and that's just

1575
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: who I am, and trust me hereas and if I

1576
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 1: could be any different, I would I tell my friends

1577
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: that all the time. But if I could just sit

1578
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,719
Speaker 1: home and be cute and not in my my business.

1579
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 1: I would, I really would. It's an easier life. No

1580
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 1: one wants to deal with this. No one wants anybody

1581
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 1: in your comments calling you all kind of names. But

1582
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: I am grateful for you. I am grateful for the

1583
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: work that you do. I think that I would love

1584
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: to have you on forever. It's been an hour and

1585
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,759
Speaker 1: change and I could talk to you all day because

1586
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 1: it is a reminder of what we should be doing.

1587
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:17,879
Speaker 1: Your work is invaluable. Keep teaching the children, myself included

1588
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 1: in Last but not least, I really want you to

1589
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 1: talk about your book so people know to go out

1590
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: and get your book. Before I let you go, you

1591
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 1: did something special.

1592
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,679
Speaker 2: Oh wow, thank you so much for the kind words

1593
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 2: and for having me here. This is a real honor.

1594
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to go brag in my.

1595
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 3: Talking to Carry and she thinks you're the best.

1596
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 2: And that too. On the records. On the record, yeah,

1597
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 2: behind me. I have the book, a kid's book about Juneteenth.

1598
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 2: I wrote this book to literally bring the story of

1599
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 2: Juneteenth to families, to caretakers and children, and to make

1600
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 2: sure that the story continues on. You know, we know

1601
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 2: that this is now a federal holiday currently, hopefully it remains.

1602
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 2: But it's also such an important history of the way

1603
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 2: that black people have leveraged joy and solidarity for progress

1604
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 2: and for survival and to thrive even right, And so

1605
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 2: that's why I wrote the book. You can get it

1606
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 2: wherever books are sold. It's a kid's book about Juneteenth.

1607
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 2: I appreciate you letting me plug that. I don't get

1608
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 2: to talk about it as much post June Nineteenth, Like June.

1609
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 3: Twenty, it's over.

1610
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 2: It's over. I could tell you like.

1611
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,759
Speaker 3: A two week period to talk about your motally.

1612
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 2: Literally, there's like a two week period.

1613
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 3: Bring it back in February.

1614
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will do that. I will do that. But

1615
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 2: but I love that it exists, and I love the

1616
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,560
Speaker 2: people are grabbing the book, and I appreciate you for

1617
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 2: having me and for this really great conversation.

1618
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: Keep doing the work. Thank you, Garrison Hayes for joining

1619
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 1: us on Naked Sports.

1620
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you all.

1621
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: Right, folks, thanks so much for joining us on this

1622
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: edition of Naked Sports. I hope you learned something that

1623
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 1: is always, always, always the number one goal.

1624
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 3: I want to point out.

1625
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:08,720
Speaker 1: That next weekend, next weekend, WNBA All Star, tune in,

1626
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 1: watch support the ladies, help change this narrative. Stop talking

1627
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: about who's jealous of whom and even if they are

1628
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: add the so what, because does it matter? It's all

1629
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: going to get handled on the court. And then if

1630
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: it doesn't get handled on the court specifically, you'll hear

1631
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: about it.

1632
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:29,839
Speaker 3: You'll hear about.

1633
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 1: It all right, y'all, I'm going to go to the

1634
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 1: WNBA All Star at least that's my intention. I'll keep

1635
01:24:35,200 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: y'all posted if I do. I'm also head in ne Vegas.

1636
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,200
Speaker 1: Shout out to my girl, Swin Cash. You guys have

1637
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 1: to support Swin Cash. Speaking of WNBA, she is an

1638
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 1: All Star, a legend, Hall of Famer, and she's having

1639
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:52,880
Speaker 1: a huge, huge, huge conference for women in sports, and

1640
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: she was so generous enough to invite me to speak.

1641
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: So I'm excited to be there and we're just going

1642
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: to talk about all the things changing, the narratives, being

1643
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: loud and proud, and what's next for the future in

1644
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 1: front of the camera and behind the scenes. So shout

1645
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 1: out to Swin Cash. And when I come back, I'll

1646
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: tell you all about the festivities. Those I was able

1647
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 1: to make and those I wasn't able to.

1648
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 3: Make my que cart is full. Man, I got lots

1649
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,839
Speaker 3: going on, all right, y'all. Thanks for listening to Naked Sports.

1650
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 3: Talk to y'all next week.

1651
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: Naked Sports written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion,

1652
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: produced by Jacquise Thomas, sound designed and mastered by Dwayne Crawford.

1653
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:29,759
Speaker 1: Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast

1654
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 1: Network in iHeartMedia