1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prodiction of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: I'm Annie rec and I'm Lauren Vocal Bomb. And today 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about corn bread. Yes, and this is a 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: food where my southern card gets questioned lot oh yes, 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: oh yes, because a lot of people have really strong 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: opinions about it and what it is, yes and what 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: it is not. There are such strong opinions. I didn't 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: realize this until like a few years ago. Yeah, and 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: in the terminology around it here because I'm a lot 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: of my friends are very Southern, and they they'll just 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: be like, wait, you cook it and not a cast 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: off skillet? That's not corn bread? What? Um? Yeah? And 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about it because as this comes out it 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: is New Year's gig. Cannot believe. I know, right, when 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: did that happen? When did it's still March? Right? What 16 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: what's going on by their March are like September, it's 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, depending on the day or or 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: it's like and I can't tell, Oh my gosh, what 19 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: if we like left our apartments then it was like 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: the future, the future we were promised would happen in 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: nineteen with like with like floating skateboards and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: that's that's how you know you're in the future. Nothing else, well, 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: we'll see I am. Yeah. Well, whatever year it is, 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: Happy New Year. Supposedly it's but who knows. Um. And 25 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: here in the South, cornbread is a part of the 26 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: traditional good like southern meal, which we've talked about before 27 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: in past episodes. Um, and then cornbread represents coins and 28 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: gold and the other things are some type of pork 29 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: product um, collared or turn up greens or greens and 30 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: black eyed peas, which I make every year. But I 31 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: don't make the corn bread actually, and I really don't 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: have corn bread very often. The only time I have 33 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: it generally is in the cornbread stuffing for Thanksgiving and 34 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: Christmas that I make, which I actually just had for 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: lunch left. Oh heck, I okay. Corn Bread stuffing isn't 36 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: a thing that I knew existed until I moved to Atlanta. 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: I still don't think I've ever had it. Um outrage. 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: In in my family, stuffing was always made with like 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: white wheat flour bread. Um. And that's yeah. I'm just like, really, 40 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: you can put a corn bread is stuffing. It's funny 41 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: because I feel the opposite way. But now that you 42 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: mentioned it, that makes sense to make it that way. 43 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, yeah, both both big perfect sense. Um. 44 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: Cornbread is thing that I started. I had growing up, 45 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: a sweet yellow corn bread and um, it's something that 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: I still get pretty nostalgic for. And uh, my dad 47 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: made a lot of Jiffy. My dad was a big, 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: big proponent of Jiffy uh, Jiffy boxes to um to 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: serve specifically with chili. That was that was his like special, 50 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm making chili and a box of Jiffy corn bread 51 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um and uh and then on like 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: like with the leftovers we would have chili mac. So yeah, 53 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: yeah that sounds good. Oh gosh it is. And that's 54 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: still that's still kind of what I want to do 55 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: when I have chili. But um, so, corn bread is 56 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: something that I don't think I had made from scratch. 57 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: Maybe i'd made it like one other time before, but 58 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: I've made it at least twice during quarantine, um, because 59 00:03:54,360 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: I was just like I need comfort, Rode, Well, you've 60 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: got me beat there. I've never made it from scratches. 61 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: You can judge me. I don't care. I already get 62 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: it from my southern friends. It's pretty easy. It's pretty 63 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: easy to make um. But but yeah, the looking up 64 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: recipes was kind of I think, the first time that 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: I realized how deep the rabbit hole of opinions goes. Yeah, 66 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's a it's a deep one. It's I 67 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: didn't I didn't know. I didn't know rabbits could dig 68 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: that deep. It's it's a lot. Well, you know, one time, 69 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: well only one time. Yes, my rabbit Amber, she burrowed 70 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: out into the night and we the hole went so deep. 71 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: We don't know what happened to her, but I made 72 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: it somewhere. Amber is out there to this day, living 73 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: the wildlife. Wow, you've had really bad luck with pets. 74 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: I absolutely do. I absolutely do. But moving on from that, 75 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: you know, my dad, he really likes like the classic 76 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: Southern foods. That was his thing. And he would he 77 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: would get like, um, collared greens in a cup and 78 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: crumple up cornbread in there, and he loved that. And 79 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: then he would put corn bread in buttermilk. Oh yeah, 80 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And I was thinking about this and didn't 81 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: we have like a lacy corn bread and we were 82 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: in Alabama? Yeah, yeah, that one. Oh gosh, now I'm 83 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: and I didn't look it up, and now I'm not 84 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: going to be able to pull a name out of 85 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: my head. But there was this one lovely restaurant that 86 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: we went to, possibly in South Georgia rather than Alabama. 87 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: But yeah, like a like a like a real good 88 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: like like southern buffet, like like meet and three kind 89 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: of kind of place. Um and and yeah, one of 90 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: the breads that they had was, um, what's called a 91 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: hot water corn bread or yeah, like lacy corn bread 92 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: and um, it's it's like real, real thin, like almost 93 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: like a like a like a cracker size and and 94 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: chewy and crispy and fatty and so good. Oh man, Yeah, 95 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: I think I think many in our group went up 96 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: for multiple corner Yeah, because and I don't think any 97 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: of us, like I spelt like like Andrew is from 98 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: you know, the Northeast, and he was like, what is 99 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: this magic? And we were like we don't know either, 100 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: and so yeah, like it's just amazement all around. Yes, yes, 101 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: it was very delicious, But okay, let's get to our question. Yes, yes, 102 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: corn bread, what is it? Well, corn bread is a 103 00:06:53,720 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: type of bread made from corn meal. Yeah, yeah, uh, 104 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: what else goes? Into. It depends on what textures and 105 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: flavors you're you're working with in your corn meal and 106 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: what you're going for in your finished product. And uh, 107 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: and yet today we're we're talking mostly about types corn 108 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: bread that are baked using like a thick batter in 109 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: a in a dish or a pan, so that they 110 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: bake up slightly raised, um and anywhere from crumbly, too 111 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: tender and savory to sweet. Though there are a lot 112 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: of other things that you can do with corn meal batters. 113 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: You can make flatbreads of various kinds, including that Lacey 114 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: cornbread we had, or m Johnny cakes or how cakes 115 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: you can deep fried into hush puppies. You can cook 116 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: it up into like a like a pudding, like a 117 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: spoon bread, use it as the topping of a cast roll, 118 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: which I found a lot of recipes for and now 119 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: I really want to do if that sounds good. Um. 120 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: But corn meal so perhaps obviously UM, if you're making 121 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: a bread out of any kind of grain, the qualities 122 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: of that grain matter. You know, from the amounts and 123 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: types of protein and carbohydrate that grow in the grain, 124 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: um to to whether it's harvested fully ripened, and thus 125 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: more sugary to whether it's processed whole or with some 126 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: bits removed, to how finally and evenly it's ground. Corn 127 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: Meal made from white corn um tends to be a 128 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: bit naturally sweeter, with a deeper corn flavor, and a 129 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: little bit more coarsely and unevenly ground um, often still 130 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: by stone mill. Um. Maybe it's a little bit fresher 131 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: and like stickier, kind of like self fluffing. Yeah. Um. 132 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: And it tends to be more expensive because it is 133 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: an artisan product. Um. But you can make a good 134 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: corn bread from it, um without adding too much flour 135 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: or any sugar at all. Oh, the sugar debate, the 136 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: sugar debate. We're getting into it. We're gonna get into it. Um. Uh. 137 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: Yellow corn meal, on the other hand, tends to be 138 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: a bit more bland, a bit more finally and evenly ground. 139 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: Usually buy machine, a little bit drier and more shelf stable. Um. 140 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: It's cheaper because it's easier to industrialize, but you'll probably 141 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: want to add more flour and sugar to it to 142 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: get a tasty corn bread out of it. Of course, 143 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: the price issue depends heavily on where you are and 144 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: what you know can grow in your backyard. Um, which 145 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: is another thing that we will get into. But at 146 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: any rate, yes, um so so that's one of those 147 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: two corn meals is going to be the basis of 148 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: your bread. Um and other ingredients. And yes, some of 149 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: these are controversial. I can hear some of you gearing up. Yeah, 150 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: the emails already composed, it's already ready to go, no 151 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: matter what you said. I yet again, I am only 152 00:09:54,679 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: reporting the facts here, okay, Yes, um so um. You 153 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: can indeed add wheat flour to a corn bread up 154 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: to equal parts with the corn meal, and that will 155 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: make it fluffier. You can technically make corn breads with 156 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: with just like corn meal and water. But if you 157 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: add fat, that will add some tenderness and some flavor. Um. 158 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: It's generally added to the batter in liquid form though, 159 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: so it's not going to provide any lift the way 160 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: that like creaming butter into a recipe would add lift. Butter, lard, bacon, fat, 161 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: or a combination are common, although you can use olive 162 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: oil or other plant oils. Eggs in there will provide 163 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: lift and also tenderness. Um. You'd add fewer for more 164 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: crumbly bread, and more for a cakier bread. Um. Depending 165 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: on how much lift you want, you can add varying 166 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: amounts of baking powder and baking soda. Adding butter milk 167 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: will provide a depth of flavor to the finished bread. Um, 168 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: and and the acid in that buttermilk will activate the 169 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: bake ping soda to help lift the bread. If you're 170 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: using baking soda also gets a little bit more fat 171 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: in there, a little bit more tenderness. Some folks add 172 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: sour cream to for similar purposes. Um. Adding a bit 173 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: of sugar can make up for the lack of flavor 174 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: in some yellow corn meals, or you can add like 175 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: a bunch more than that for sweeter bread. More sugar 176 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: also does create a little bit more tenderness. You can 177 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: put addens in there. Um. This is not a thing 178 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: that my family does, and I still don't really understand it. 179 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: But um, but but it sounds delicious. Like you can 180 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: added a whole kernels of corn. You can add in cream, corn, um, 181 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: all kinds of cheeses, chopped chilies, whatever you want, Bacon, 182 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: the calpino alpino cheese corn bread is pretty popular around 183 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: in barbecue places around these certainly, Yeah, yeah, I'm not 184 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: going to say no to it. I love it. Yeah. Sure, 185 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: I wish I'd taken a picture of what I had 186 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: for lunch. She would have gotten a kick out of it. 187 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 1: But it was like five different sauces. I was. It 188 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: was just a plate and I was dipping things into 189 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: the hot So this is not my surprised face at all. 190 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: It was delicious. Uh. Did you get a bunch of 191 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: hot sauces for like the holidays? I did. I got 192 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: at least six. Oh my gosh, that is glorious from 193 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: like different humans. Different humans all got you hot. That's great, 194 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: that's really cool. They know they do, they do, Oh jeez. Um. 195 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: And then uh, then I would say the final ingredient, 196 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: um is what you already brought up annie. Um. That 197 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: that that that pan that you use, um and uh. 198 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: And that pan is traditionally in the South a cast 199 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: iron skillet. Um. And I mean you can make a 200 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: cornbread without one. Um, but cast iron skillet is a 201 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: great vehicle because you can you can preheat it in 202 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: the oven um, and or else your fat in it 203 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: on the stovetop, and so then it's a it's it's 204 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: nice and hot when you pour your batter in UM 205 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: and that helps get a get a good crust started. Yeah, 206 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: this is where I get a lot of judgment because 207 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: I never use a cast iron skillet to do this. 208 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: Apparently that's like not a pone of corn bread, and 209 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: that's what I should be making. Well, I raised my 210 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: hands and defeats, and that's between you and your cornbread. 211 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: Got any res I can't. Oh no, I think it 212 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: says something about me that every time, like the issue 213 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: of some type of god comes up on me, being 214 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: like oh no, oh whick, judgment will be fierce and 215 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: swift and and or again we just watched too much supernatural. 216 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: Who knows? Who knows? It could be that I think 217 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: D and D I roe that pun look at that? 218 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: OHT know? Okay, corn bread, Um, the result, the result 219 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: of all of this, you know, really depends on what 220 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: you did. Um. You can make a corn bread that's 221 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: a couple of inches tall and fluffy and tender and 222 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: sweet like a muffin, almost more like a cake than 223 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: a bread. You can make a corn bread that's less 224 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: than a niche, thick and crumbly and a little bit 225 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: coarse and like salty and savory. Um, almost more like 226 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: a flatbread than a than a breadbread. Um, both probably 227 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: have a nice chewy crust, I will say, and you 228 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: can make something anywhere in between. All are valid. You 229 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: are valid. Thank you, Lauren, You're welcome. That's what I 230 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: needed to hear. And yeah, Lauren and I were talking 231 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: before we get started and before I really derailed everything 232 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: with my traumatic story about my rabbit as a kid. Um, 233 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: there's so many like ways we could have gone, so 234 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: many ways. Corn bread is used and has been used 235 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: as an ingredient in different dishes. Some things I did 236 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: want to mention is crumble in which I've never heard of, uh, 237 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: and corn bread dressing. Yes, so we're going to touch 238 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: on a little bit later. But these could be a 239 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: whole other episodes. Oh oh yes, um uh and probably 240 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: will be at some point in the future. There were Yeah, 241 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: there were so many different directions that I wanted to 242 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: go down. Um uh. Yeah. I was just saying to 243 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: Annie before we started, like I could have just kept 244 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: reading about this like kind of forever. Um, I really 245 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: want to do horrifying, lee complicated episode about the industrialization 246 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: of corn now. Yes, um, but yeah, I've been wanting 247 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: to do that for a while. And that's how you 248 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: know we're food podcast nerds. Well what are you really 249 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: excited about right now? The industrialization of corn? Why aren't 250 00:15:51,040 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: you weird? Well, what about the nutrition? Again, it depends 251 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: on how you make it. Um. And you know, bread 252 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: in general is not like a health food. Um. But 253 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: and like I don't know, like like running running the numbers. 254 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: Corn bread tends to have a little bit more fat 255 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: than most wheatbreads probably do. But those also depend on 256 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: how you make them. Um said, it's food, Eat it, 257 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: eat it. It's a good it's a good thing. It 258 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: helps fill you up, um, to help keep you going. 259 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: Eat a vegetable and probably some protein and some protein 260 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: in the words of the genius of our time, weird 261 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: Al Yankovic. Just eat it. Just eat it if you 262 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: want to, if you want to add there, Yeah you 263 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: um numbers Wise, you don't really have much. I will say. 264 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: There have been a lot of books written about corn bread. Yeah, 265 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: especially recently. Um, I and I and I love this. 266 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: I love um that this, uh, this entire cultural phenomenon 267 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: is is really being dissected and given the weight that 268 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: that that it deserves. Yeah, and it it moves a 269 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: lot of people, Like several things. I read were really poetic, 270 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, corn bread, Yeah, and it's 271 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: long inspired strong opinions and thoughtful pros. Mark Twain wrote 272 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: in his autobiography the North thinks it knows how to 273 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: make cornbread, but this is gross superstition. Rebecca Powers wrote 274 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: an abuse for The Washington Post in the America's cornmeal 275 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: maybe the most indigenous of ingredients, spiralering across regions and 276 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: among ethnicities and races, like a genetic double helix. I know, 277 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: I love that. Oh that is beautiful. Um, the the 278 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: most the most poetic one that I read was, um 279 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: that you know you should you should serve corn bread 280 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: either piping hot or completely cool, because quote, tepid corn 281 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: bread is the penance of poor planning. Yeah. That was 282 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: from the Bitter Southerner, from an article by Sherry Castle. 283 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: That's great, Yeah for planning. Heaven forbid. Well, we have 284 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: so much history for you, Oh we do. But first 285 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: we've got a quick break for a word from our sponsor, 286 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So 287 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: cornbread's history in North America goes back thousands of years 288 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: to indigenous people's mixing ground up maze with salt, and water, 289 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: sometimes with fat and frequently flattened. They would flatten this 290 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: exture into cakes that were very filling, if not a 291 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: bit bland. Um. One of America's most valuable native crops, 292 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: corn was very prized and used to make a whole 293 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: host of things, from bread to alcoholic beverages and all 294 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: kinds of stuff in between. Yeah yeah, And it was 295 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: also taken note of by the European explorers and colonizers 296 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: who started coming over around the uh the Furtune and 297 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds and some of whom um, the Portuguese specifically 298 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: brought corn from the America's over to Africa, and so 299 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: corn meal was thus incorporated into cuisines in various cultures 300 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: around the continent there um, and it is the base 301 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: of just, for example, um the porridge side digit gali, 302 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: So stuff like that, yeah h uh. When European colonists 303 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: arrived to the America's they adapted the cornbread recipe that 304 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: was already there to fit their culinary preferences in a 305 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: way to make it feel more like home. And these 306 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: early seventeenth century recipes were simple, um, tailored to what 307 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: was available, and relying largely on butter and eggs for 308 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: flavor to make a longer lasting cornbread, cook started adding 309 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: yeasts and wheat in the eighteen hundreds if they could 310 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: afford them. Both were pretty expensive. The chemical levener potash 311 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: was sometimes used instead to give cornbread lift. Um. And 312 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: this is where the addition of buttermilk would have come in, 313 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: not just for its flavor, but also because that the 314 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: acid and buttermilk reacts with potash as it does in 315 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: more modern baking soda to provide lift and so yeah 316 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: either way. Um. This was the start of liftier corn 317 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: breads um, including flat bread like Johnny Cakes and more 318 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: muffin like corn pones m m uh. This corn pone 319 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: was often cooked in either a Dutch oven or greased 320 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: iron skillet, with the lid placed right over hot coals 321 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: to make sure the red heated evenly. The lid was 322 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: also covered with embers. Yes. And of note, at the time, 323 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: corn referred to all types of grains um, and maize 324 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: referred specifically to corn. Yeah. If you're ever looking into 325 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: the history of this for yourself, then that's a really 326 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: confusing thing until you get it firmly into your head. 327 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: Um yeah yes um. Also of note, um, the corn 328 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: meal that was being used at the time was probably 329 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: mainly white corn meal. Um, a little bit sweeter, more 330 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: naturally fluffy. This will come back later on, yes. Um. 331 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: After comparing several types of corn bread in Virginia, a 332 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: correspondent from The Times wrote in it will be observed 333 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: that none of them is sugar used. There are corn 334 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: meal pudding served with sweet sauces, but no Southern cook 335 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: would risk the spoiling of her corn breads by sweetening them. Oh, 336 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: the beginning of the sugar debate. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, 337 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: so so part of the reason that sugar would not 338 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: have been used in corn bread itself was because sugar 339 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: was dang expensive at the time. Um. You know, it 340 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: might have been a table side seasoning, like if you 341 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to be able to afford it, But 342 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: but only the wealthy would have been able to afford 343 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: to bake sweet things with any regularity. Um, and cornbread 344 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: was a sustenance food, you know, like you would save 345 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: that sugar if you had it for a special occasion 346 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: baked good um, which, to be fair, could include um, 347 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: fancy celebration corn breads, fancy celebration cornbread. It was apparently 348 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: a thing no well, I can understand. From the beginning, 349 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: columnists arriving to the South eight primarily cornbread over other 350 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: bread products, and this was the norm until the twentieth century, 351 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: which is also when wheat flour and sugar started showing 352 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: up more commonlying recipes for those that yes could afford 353 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: it um. This was also in part because corn grew 354 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: well in the South while wheat and rye flourished in 355 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: the North. Only rich people in the South ate something 356 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: other than cornbread on a regular basis. When it came 357 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: to bread products. For most Southerners, wheat biscuits were for 358 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: special occasions, special location. Wheat. Yeah, A lot of these 359 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: recipes weren't recorded, but instead passed from mothers to daughters 360 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: a prized family secret. In in eighteen fifty three New 361 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: York Times article detailing Texas, the author wrote, in the 362 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: interior of the country, cornbread forms the staple article of 363 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: the diet, anything composed of wheat flour being about as 364 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: scarce as ice cream in Sahara or Sahara, however you prefer. 365 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: Because corn grew easily and in less than ideal conditions, 366 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: particularly in the South, it was a stable for the 367 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: poor and enslaved people. In his book The Cooking, Jean 368 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: Michael Twitter wrote that cornbread mashed up with pot liquer 369 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: is quote the oldest baby food known to black people 370 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: in America, going back to the days of slavery. Yeah. Um, 371 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: some enslaved peoples would have been familiar with corn and 372 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: corn meal from their culinary traditions in Africa, and probably 373 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: for the white upper class and possibly for the for 374 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: the white lower classes as well. Southern cornbread traditions grew 375 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: out of what enslaved people were doing in their kitchens 376 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: and then passing along through their communities as they cooked 377 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: in wealthy white households. Um, and then lower class white 378 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: people saw what those households were doing, right Yeah yeah. 379 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: And speaking of those wealthy households, I guess according to Vice, 380 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: a Victorian era Southern lady or ladies changed the name 381 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: of stuffing to dressing when it comes to that product 382 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: due to the English slang meaning of stuffed. Um. Yeah, 383 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: a future episode and while it was a doozy, that 384 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: was another one where I was reading about it, like 385 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: what stuff it can't go down this rabbit all today? Yeah, yeah, 386 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: I think we call it dressing in my house exclusively. Yeah, yeah, 387 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: I pretty exclusively call it stuffing, even though I would 388 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: never dare put a bread product into a bird and 389 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: then cook the bird, right, I'm not doing that part 390 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: of it. But yeah, we do. I think we do 391 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: call it stuffing more. I think we switch. But that's 392 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: very very funny if that's true, that's hilarious. Yeah. During 393 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, most farmers got corn meal for their 394 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: families by toll milling, so they'd go to their local 395 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: mills with their own corn to get a ground and 396 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: they pay the miller with some of the resulting corn meal. 397 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: Around the beginning of the twentieth century, traditional stone mills 398 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: were slowly replaced by mills that used these large steel 399 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: cylinders to roll things out, and these were more efficient 400 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: when it came to removing the corn kernel and germ, 401 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: which was really good for shell stability but not so 402 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: great for a flavor. The texture of the meal was 403 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: also more homogenized, which for cornbread was not necessarily a 404 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: good thing. That's not really what you were going for 405 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, um necessitating wheat flour to 406 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: get that same rise. The sugar was also added as 407 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: a result of this, or at least it started to 408 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: be added more commonly so make up for lost flavor. Um. 409 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: A change in the type of corn that was being 410 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: milled had something to do with this too, And um 411 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: some people used molasses in sugars place. Yeah yeah, molasses 412 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: would have been a more common sweetener in general and 413 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: like less than wealthy households. Um. But yeah yeah that 414 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: that that switching corn um Uh so okay, these these 415 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: hybrid yellow types of corn that were higher yielding, um 416 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: like cheaper to grow, began replacing white corn for industrially 417 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: made corn meal after the Civil War and um, by 418 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: like the nineteen sixties, some of the old varieties were 419 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: nearly extinct. Yeah. Yeah. And this debate around sugar, which 420 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: I uh, I didn't know it was such a huge deal. 421 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: I did know that they are very strong opinions about 422 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: a lot of things with cornbread, But the sugar thing 423 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: was when I wasn't very familiar with. But it isn't 424 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: like the top two like Google search page results. It's 425 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: like sugar sugar at sugar don't have sugar? What is this? Yeah? 426 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: So that the debate around that and white versus yellow 427 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: corn meal does often ignore questions of class and race. 428 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 1: So Michael Twitter wrote about this too quote It's a 429 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: lot deeper than it appears. It's actually a gauge of 430 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: who gets to call what southern southern? So often what 431 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: is southern? How is southern? Why is southern? Has been 432 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: determined by Southern white people. Is a part of the 433 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: larger discussion of whether or not you see Southern culture 434 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: from the perspective of the big house or the slave quarters. 435 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: We're still having this argument one hundred years later, but 436 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: we're using different vehicles to have it, including cornbread. Yeah. 437 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, well we'll we'll keep we'll keep getting into that. 438 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: And it does, it does flow through the rest of 439 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: this timeline. Um so um so so sweetened yellow corn 440 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: bread UM is sometimes considered a Northern thing um and 441 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: it might have caught on in the North partially because 442 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: yellow corn meal was what was available there, um, but 443 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: partially because of the Great Migration of the early nineteen hundreds, 444 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: in which many black Americans from the South moved northward 445 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: looking for new opportunities, um, bringing their culinary traditions with them. 446 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: The Times had more to say about corn red in seven, 447 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: with an article claiming corn red and Kentucky is made 448 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: with white coarsely ground corn meal. Never never are sugar 449 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: and wheat flour used in cornbread. Water ground corn meal 450 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: and water ground whole wheat flour have still a market 451 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: in Kentucky and are still used with delight. And oh 452 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: and this is where it gets been more complicated because okay, 453 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: white corn meal is a local product in Kentucky. Um, 454 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, wheat flour and sugar and yellow corn meal 455 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: for that matter would have been expensive. Um, but working 456 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: class people could have grown their own white corn So 457 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: although kind of traditionally white unsweetened corn bread might have 458 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: been an upper class thing, there are these whole pockets 459 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: of the South for whom it's the opposite. Uh. And 460 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: it's really confounding. And I and I adore this um Uh. 461 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: I think I think it's just a just a really 462 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: interesting and good example of, um, of how race and 463 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: class intersect and how the South is not a monolith, 464 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, like the South is this entire broad band 465 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: of different cultures um that all have their own traditions 466 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: and they're all inter related in really confusing ways. Um. 467 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, Um, Meanwhile, Jiffy debuted their corn bread or 468 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: corn muffin mix in nineteen fifty. It includes yellow corn 469 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: meal and sugar, and today flash forward to the present, 470 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: Jiffy corn muffin mix is responsible for of the corn 471 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: muffin mis sold in the United States, um, making it 472 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: the second most sold dry grocery product behind chicken ramen. 473 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: What like It's like it's a head of Kraft Macaroni 474 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: and cheese. What yeah. Um, the next most popular corn 475 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: muffin mix after that, by Martha White, has only one 476 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: percent of the US market. Wow, Jeffy's got a real 477 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: hold they do. It's fascinating. Is that shocks me? Yeah? Yeah, 478 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: well it's you know, um, it's it's used again these 479 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: pockets of Southern culture and what is southern and kind 480 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: of like going into the difference between southern culture and 481 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: soul food, or our southern food and soult food, because 482 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: frequently the soul food version of corn bread is going 483 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: to be the sweeter one, even though it's Southern. Yeah. Wow, wow, 484 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: I have I have a lot to think about now, 485 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I mean that's all I've ever made, 486 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: um from a corn bread uh huh yeah, Oh my god. Yeah. 487 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: Now I really want to track down like silly expensive 488 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: white corn meal and try making corn bread out of that. 489 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: I've only ever used yellow anyway. Uh. In a Dorothy 490 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: Robinson wrote for the Richmond Times, cooks who paid attention 491 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: knew there was a difference, a very different product from 492 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: the yellow corn meal of the North. It's this white 493 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: water ground meal of the South. The two are not 494 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: interchangeable in recipes. Most standard cookbooks, with the exception of 495 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: a comparative few devoted to Southern cooking, have concerned themselves 496 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: with yellow corn meal recipes as if they did not 497 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: know any other kind exclamation point. They do not even 498 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: distinguish between the two. They simply say, naively, a cup 499 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: of corn meal when listing ingredients in a recipe. Oh 500 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: and in nineteen fifty someone wrote into The Times picka 501 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: unit in New Orleans, Um, who's got coarse grits? The 502 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: only grits we can get is very fine and no 503 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: better than mush. In short, I'm advertising for some grocer 504 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: or other individuals selling coarse grits. To drop me a line. 505 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: Ah wow, this is wonderful. I know, I know, I 506 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: love it. Skipping way ahead, in Sarah van Tera wrote 507 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: a piece called Here's why Sean Brock is willing to 508 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: break international laws for corn bread. I remember that when 509 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: that article came out and I put cornbread on our 510 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: list because I was like what uh yeah, and it's 511 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: all about brock journey to resurrect a variety of corn 512 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: known as Jimmy Red because, as you were saying, a 513 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: lot of those corn varieties that we used to use 514 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: are either when extinct or very little people left growing them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 515 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: With with mass mass farming practices, big egg and all 516 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: that um hoof hoof. Indeed, uh, so many this has 517 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: open so many other pass for us to follow at 518 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: a later date. Yes, yes, oh, and I and I 519 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: look forward to them deeply. Um, because yeah, that there 520 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: are so many corn meal related dishes that um that 521 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: are that that that I'm unfamiliar with, um that I 522 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: would like to become familiar with, you know, both research 523 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: wise and like with my stomach. Um. That's one of 524 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: the nicest ways of saying you're going to eat something 525 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: I've ever heard. I would like to become familiar with that. Yeah. Yeah, 526 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: I just I just wanna, I just want to eat 527 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: you corn meal lots of different ways. Well, here's hoping 528 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: uh opens that for you. Yes, fingers cratched that I'll 529 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: get get my get myself together and do more cooking 530 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: or be able to go someplace any place and have 531 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: someone cook something for me. Yes. Uh. And you can 532 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: send those thoughts too. As in speaking of we do 533 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: have some lister mail, Yes we do. At first, We've 534 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: got one more quick break for a word from our 535 00:34:50,520 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. 536 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: And we're back with cast aron skillet method that I 537 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: never do, but you're bringing it out the oven't our 538 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: connection is really interesting today listeners? So that was yeah, Yeah, 539 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: there's Yeah, there's a couple of places where I'm just 540 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: taking it on faith that that Annie hasn't gone wildly 541 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: off outline. That's very risky of you. That is a 542 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: roll of the dice, in fact, but I think it 543 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: worked out. Producer Andrew can take care of it and 544 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:48,720 Speaker 1: post he is a magician. So you have a letter 545 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: from Andrew, Theresa's guy who we've mentioned before. Um he wrote, Hopefully, 546 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: once we defeat this pandemic and are all allowed to 547 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: have socialized again, I would love nothing more than to 548 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: meet you both and share a Reese's and talk about 549 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: everything from Reese's to Marvel, and everything else under our 550 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: shared nerdy passions. On that note, I am curious what 551 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: are each of your favorite Reese's products. To most of 552 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: my follower's surprise, the regular Reese's cup is not my 553 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: favorite Reess product. In fact, it's not even in my 554 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: top five I know, in no particular order. It's Reese's 555 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: Fast Break. Any white chocolate, white cream reces, Reese's covered 556 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: pret Souls, Reese's ice cream, egged shaped Reese is okay. 557 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: If the Hershey Company ever brings back the inside out 558 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: races where the peanut butter is on the outside and 559 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: chocolate is on the inside, I'm sure that will infiltrate 560 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: my top five. Also, I'm unsure if you both were aware, 561 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: but I have recently discovered peanut butter whiskey. There are 562 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: a few different brands like Screwball, P B and W, 563 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: and Sheep Dog who have sent me bottles to try. 564 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: Nothing beats having your favorite can de brand send you 565 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: free candy and your favorite alcohol also being sent for free. 566 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: I'm not an average drinker, but peanut butter whisky has 567 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: definitely improved my hot chocolates and eggnogs this winter. They're 568 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: also quite delicious on their own. If you're into sweet 569 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: tasting whiskeys, I've been meaning to try those for a while. 570 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: I feel like I have had one and I liked it, 571 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: but it was like just a tiny little tasting bigger 572 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: I need a bigger sampling to make clear, clearly clearly 573 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: it's not on Yeah, yeah, I generally do not like 574 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: sweet tasting whiskeys, but I'm willing to try anything um 575 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: or pretty much. So yeah, I'm I'm curious. I'm curious 576 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: how that flavor profile goes together. It seems like it 577 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: would go well. I've definitely had a peanut butter beer 578 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: that I really liked and it surprised me. But I 579 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: mean it was heavy, and I think you really have 580 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: to go in knowing what you're getting. Sure you took 581 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: us a price tip of that, which I've done, it's 582 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: not going to be a happy day. But if you're like, oh, 583 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: this is going to be like a heavy, kind of 584 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: sweeter thing, yeah, yeah, that's again, I would try it. 585 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: But um, but sweet flavors and beers are not what 586 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm there for. Um. I generally like my alcohol to 587 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: be fairly fairly on the dry end. But but oh gosh, 588 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: I I get like, like, just like Reese's Pieces might 589 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: be my favorite iteration products. Yeah, yeah, I love Reese's 590 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: Pieces And I went through a really big Reese's Pieces phase. 591 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: Like that was one of my top candies. I would 592 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: sneak into movie theater that in the twist and fill um. 593 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: But I really like I like fast Right too because 594 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of kind of a combination between Kit Cats, 595 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: which is my other favorite, and Reese's. And then I 596 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: like a I like a good like big cup, not 597 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: not the big big cup, but like the medium the 598 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: medium big cup, not the man but that that. Yeah. 599 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: Oh for Christmas, my older brother he loves ess and 600 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: my mom, so we we're trying to guess what this 601 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: gift was because it was this huge package but it 602 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: was thin. It was like maybe the size of my 603 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: hand across. But and he opened it up and it 604 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: was like eighteen humongous. Wow that is it was awesome. 605 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: That's delightful. It was awesome. My little brother got one 606 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: for Kitcats as well, so that was really fun. Yeah. Yeah, 607 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: I got basically like nothing but snacks this Christmas. Like 608 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: that was everyone just like it's it's like they know me, 609 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 1: like they were just like all Laura needs more snacks 610 00:39:52,920 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: like that delightful. Yes, oh yes, um Danielle wrote, Hey, ladies, 611 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: just got around to listening to your condensed Campbell Soup episode. 612 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: I'm a New Jersey native, so Campbell Soup is appointed 613 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: pride for me. I was listening during my lunch and 614 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: I nearly jumped out of my seat when I heard 615 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned tomato soup and a spiced cake. My grandmother, 616 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: who passed in July. Oh, I'm sorry. Um made tomato 617 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: soup cake all the time. It's legendary in my family. 618 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: If you mentioned it in the presence of any of 619 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: her sixteen grandkids, we all say, oh my god. Her 620 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:33,320 Speaker 1: tomato soupcake is my favorite, with a chocolate cream cheese frosting. 621 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 1: My grandmother was a phenomenal cook and baker. She loved 622 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: to show me how to make everything as I lived 623 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: with her for twenty five years, and she taught me 624 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: everything I know. Anyway, I would love to suggest a 625 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: divisive topic of pork roll or tailor ham Jersey girl 626 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: on full display here. Well, I definitely look forward to 627 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: researching that because I have no idea what either of 628 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: those things are. Yeah, I mean either I love a 629 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: good divisive topic is as nervous as they make us. 630 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: I love them. Um, and I love this tomato soup 631 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: and a spice cake with chocolate frosting, chocolate cheese frosting. 632 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still a little confused. I'm picturing that 633 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: it's something like a like a carrot cake or maybe 634 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: like a gingerbread cake. Okay, yeah, but but I'm just 635 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm just not sure. I mean, that was a recipe 636 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: that I ran across during my reading for this episode, 637 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:39,359 Speaker 1: was a gingerbread corn bread, and I was like, uh, yeah, 638 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: I got I don't know how to envision that one either, 639 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: Although I was also reading about um cush cush or 640 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: coush couchh, I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Um 641 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: a corn more like a corn pudding kind of situation 642 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: out of um, like New Orleans, that area that that 643 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: does have more spices involved. So I don't know. Yeah. 644 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: M Well, again, willing to try pretty much anything. I mean, 645 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: if sixteen grandkids like this tomato soup and a spice cake, 646 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: then I mean that's that's pretty good right there, right, Yeah, 647 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,959 Speaker 1: if you can get all the grandkids to agree, that's quality. Yeah, 648 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: Thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If 649 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: you would like to write to us, we would love 650 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Our email is hello at savor 651 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: pod dot com. We are also on social media. You 652 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, all three places. 653 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,439 Speaker 1: Our handle is at savor pod and we do hope 654 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Savor is a production of my 655 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can 656 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 657 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thank you, as always to 658 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you 659 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: for listening, and we hope that lots more good things 660 00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: are coming your way.