WEBVTT - Trump vs Housewives & Kardashians with Ramin Setoodeh 

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<v Speaker 1>Hey rain Drops. Yes, so I finally got merch. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>You can buy your allegedly and my Boys mugs, T shirts,

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<v Speaker 1>rain Drops, hoodies and T shirts all on Carlos Kingshop

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. That's right. Get your hoodies, your T shirts,

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<v Speaker 1>and your mugs all on Carlos Kingshop dot com. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos kings the

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<v Speaker 1>King of Reality TV and one of the most sought

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<v Speaker 1>after executive producers in reality television with over ten years

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<v Speaker 1>a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with the King,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry,

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<v Speaker 1>recap our favorite reality shows, and revisit unforgettable moments that

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<v Speaker 1>we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey rain Drops.

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<v Speaker 1>On today's episode Reality with the King. Oh honey, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>here with a very special guest. I'm a fan of

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<v Speaker 1>his work. He wrote the book that I love because

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<v Speaker 1>you all know I'm a huge fan of the view.

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<v Speaker 1>Megan McCain is one of my good friends, as you

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<v Speaker 1>all know too, because she's always against this podcast. But

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<v Speaker 1>this guy has another book out called A Prentice in Wonderland.

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<v Speaker 1>How Donald Trump and Mark Burnett took America through the

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<v Speaker 1>looking glass, so please give it up for a man Satuda.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me, Carlos, I'm so

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<v Speaker 2>excited to be here with you today.

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<v Speaker 1>No, thank you so much for taking time out of

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<v Speaker 1>your very busy press week. The book is out now.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm super stoked because listen, I'm such a fan of

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<v Speaker 1>the Ladies Who Punch. It was such a great book,

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<v Speaker 1>and anybody who's a fan of the view it was

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<v Speaker 1>sort of like the National Choir meets Vanity Fair meets

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<v Speaker 1>US Weekly. You know. It gave me everything I needed

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<v Speaker 1>and wanted. So I'm looking for to your new book,

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<v Speaker 1>which is out right now. But talk to me about

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<v Speaker 1>this book because I'm hearing it is such a deep

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<v Speaker 1>dive in how Donald Trump and Mark Burnett collectively sort

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<v Speaker 1>of creative as character that we saw on The Apprentice

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<v Speaker 1>that inevitably became the President of the United States of America.

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<v Speaker 2>You described that perfectly. This is a book about how

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<v Speaker 2>reality TV, which I know your listeners love and watch

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about, change the world because it made millions

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<v Speaker 2>of people believe that the Donald Trump that they saw

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<v Speaker 2>on The Apprentice playing this boss of the boardroom could

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<v Speaker 2>actually lead the country. And in the same way that

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<v Speaker 2>my book about the View is juicy and dishy and

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<v Speaker 2>has a lot of interviews and a lot of bombshells

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<v Speaker 2>and revelations, Apprentice in Wonderland also takes you inside this

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<v Speaker 2>reality TV show and talks about all the ups and

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<v Speaker 2>downs and dysfunction and drama and craziness that was going

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<v Speaker 2>on behind the scenes. But I also talked to Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>He and I sat down and I interviewed him four

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<v Speaker 2>times since he left the White House. We talked two

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<v Speaker 2>other times on the phone, so six interviews total, where

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<v Speaker 2>I asked him about everything from am Rosa to why

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<v Speaker 2>he ended up firing certain boardroom advisors or certain contestants,

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<v Speaker 2>to his bringing his kids on the show, which is

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<v Speaker 2>why Ivanka and Don Junior became famous to America. So

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<v Speaker 2>this really goes through the entire evolution of reality TV.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was the same thing he ended up using,

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<v Speaker 2>the same template he ended up using when he ran

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<v Speaker 2>for the White House. So this isn't really a political book,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's about how Hollywood and politics converge and how

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<v Speaker 2>now we're living in this alternate reality because the president

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<v Speaker 2>of the United States could be a reality star.

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<v Speaker 1>Again, talk to me about The Apprentice, because what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>so fascinated that you're talking about in this book is

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that he did The Apprentice to really sort

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<v Speaker 1>of not only put his name out there, because we

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<v Speaker 1>already see that with the Trump you know, in Blaze

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<v Speaker 1>on every single building in New York City, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Florida and Las Vegas. But he really wanted to become

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<v Speaker 1>somebody that the entire world knew. So when he first

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<v Speaker 1>met with Mark Burnett, what was that first meeting, like, like,

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<v Speaker 1>did he set out to become the biggest television star

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<v Speaker 1>in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So Trump wanted to be famous his entire life. He

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<v Speaker 2>thought he was going to be a film producer before

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<v Speaker 2>he went into his family business because his father obviously

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<v Speaker 2>was a very successful real estate owner and then Trump

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<v Speaker 2>inherited the family business. But he always wanted to be

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<v Speaker 2>part of Hollywood. That's why he was on He did

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<v Speaker 2>cameos on everything from you know, The Nanny, just Sex

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<v Speaker 2>and the City to Home Alone. He was always trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get on camera. And so Mark Burnett and Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump met in two thousand and three, that's when Survivor

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<v Speaker 2>was shooting at the Ice skating rink in Central Park

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<v Speaker 2>that Trump had renovated. It was woman rink, and believe

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<v Speaker 2>it or not, Rosie O'Donnell was the host of that

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<v Speaker 2>season of Survivor and Donald Trump was there with his

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<v Speaker 2>girlfrien from Milania and they met and Mark Burnett had

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<v Speaker 2>this idea to do another show that was basically like Survivor,

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<v Speaker 2>but instead of having it be in the jungle or

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<v Speaker 2>in an island, he wanted to be in the city

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<v Speaker 2>of New York where contestants were competing to see who

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<v Speaker 2>would win. And he needed a business mogul to play

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<v Speaker 2>this boss of the boardroom, and so he approached Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>He went to Trump's office. Trump said yes immediately, didn't

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<v Speaker 2>even talk to his manager, agent, nothing. He was getting

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<v Speaker 2>paid twenty five thousand dollars an episode for that first season,

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<v Speaker 2>which I know, that's a lot of money, but for

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<v Speaker 2>reality TV not really, that's not that much money for

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, who was allegedly a billionaire at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>And so he ended up being on the show and

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<v Speaker 2>using the show to promote all of his businesses, his family,

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<v Speaker 2>his home, his life, and become this legendary figure of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he'd gone through you know, ups and downs

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<v Speaker 2>in his own life, and he wasn't that famous. But

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<v Speaker 2>because of The Apprentice, everyone in America that I knew

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump and they liked him. They loved that he

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<v Speaker 2>was a tough guy that said you're fired and could

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<v Speaker 2>decide and choose and look and see who is the

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<v Speaker 2>strongest contestant in the boardroom. And that was the persona

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<v Speaker 2>that he cultivated and created. And that is the reason

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<v Speaker 2>why he became President of the States.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the other reasons why he became this reality

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<v Speaker 1>star based on your book, is the fact that Mark

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<v Speaker 1>Burnett allegedly taught Donald Trump how to perform for the camera.

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<v Speaker 1>So talk to me about that, because as reality TV producer,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing I always tell my reality stars is the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that a producer's job is similar to a music

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<v Speaker 1>producer's job when they have an artist that they're working

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<v Speaker 1>with is vocal lessons. Is teaching you how to sing

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<v Speaker 1>the right chords or rap or or whatever the case

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<v Speaker 1>may be. You're teaching this artist how to become the

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<v Speaker 1>greatest singer of all time. So, Mark Burnett, who is

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<v Speaker 1>arguably a legend in the reality community, what did he

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<v Speaker 1>teach Donald Trump in terms of how to perform for

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<v Speaker 1>the cameras.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that he taught him on camera. Trump

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<v Speaker 2>has very good instincts, so he can be funny, he

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<v Speaker 2>can be off the cut. He says things that are

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<v Speaker 2>like totally out of control. But that's really good for

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<v Speaker 2>reality TV, as you know as a reality TV producer.

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<v Speaker 2>So what Mark Burnett did was he took this caricature

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<v Speaker 2>image that Trump has and does and is this character

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<v Speaker 2>that he plays, and kind of found a way to

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<v Speaker 2>fine tune it. And in the boardroom. One of their

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<v Speaker 2>biggest fights, actually the two of them, was that Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump wants the entire episode of The Apprentice to be

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<v Speaker 2>the boardroom. He wasn't. He didn't care about the contestants,

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<v Speaker 2>care about the tasks. He thought there wasn't enough boardroom.

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<v Speaker 1>So over the years, they translation enough Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, They kept fighting over Trump. The boardrooms would become longer.

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<v Speaker 2>He would sometimes film for four hours doing these boardroom

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<v Speaker 2>scenes that on TV would be like, you know, five minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>ten minutes. But he wanted, he loved to be in

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<v Speaker 2>the boardroom because it made him feel powerful. And the

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<v Speaker 2>other thing that Mark Burnett really taught Trump was that

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<v Speaker 2>what matters the most is your audience size. And Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>fixation on ratings and his obsession on ratings, that's why

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<v Speaker 2>he was always making up the numbers and saying they

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<v Speaker 2>had more people had his inauguration than Obama did. Was

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<v Speaker 2>because of the show. Because he would wake up every

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<v Speaker 2>day after the Apprentice aired and go and try to

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<v Speaker 2>find the ratings. He would facc the ratings to people

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<v Speaker 2>and he was so excited, and he'd sometimes even make

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<v Speaker 2>up the numbers when they weren't very good. He was

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<v Speaker 2>excited to own the ratings because he learned that the

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<v Speaker 2>only way to get renewed is as you know as

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<v Speaker 2>a producer, is through good ratings. So he was very

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<v Speaker 2>obsessed with the crowd size. He wanted the biggest number possible,

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<v Speaker 2>and we saw that when he became president.

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<v Speaker 1>So you said with him, you said a total four times.

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<v Speaker 1>And obviously he loves talking about himself, right, So when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to reality television, did he talk to you

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<v Speaker 1>about his feelings towards that genre? Television was a love

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<v Speaker 1>hate relationship? Was it all love relationship that he had

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<v Speaker 1>with his genre? Like did he want to be as

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<v Speaker 1>big as Chris Jenner? When it came to like figuring

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<v Speaker 1>out how reality television can work for his business.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great question. So Donald Trump and I actually

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<v Speaker 2>sat in a wardroom in Trump Tower and we watched

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<v Speaker 2>clips of the show together. And when he saw the

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<v Speaker 2>theme song, he said he hadn't heard it for years.

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<v Speaker 2>It made him so that was probably the happiest I

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<v Speaker 2>ever saw him. He really lit up. Remember that money, Money,

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<v Speaker 2>Money theme song that's at the beginning of the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Then he goes, this is a really good show, like

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<v Speaker 2>he was like he was doing himself and then complimenting himself.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a really interesting dynamic, but not surprising. But

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<v Speaker 2>for in terms of the genre Donald Trump is, this

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<v Speaker 2>might also not be that surprising. But he's most interested

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<v Speaker 2>in himself. So I asked him about Kim Kardashian had

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<v Speaker 2>been on the show in one of the seasons to

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<v Speaker 2>promote one of her fragrance lines. Obviously, Chloe Kardashian was

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<v Speaker 2>a contestant on The Apprentice. Didn't end well for her,

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<v Speaker 2>and so and Kaylen Jenner is now helping Trump and

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<v Speaker 2>campaigning for Trump. So he does have ties to the Kardashians,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's claimed that he'd never seen keeping up with

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<v Speaker 2>the Kardashians, but that they had something going on, and

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<v Speaker 2>he understood that that they were using their face somehow

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<v Speaker 2>to get people to watch them. And he had actually

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<v Speaker 2>been offered a show before The Apprentice. It was like

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<v Speaker 2>the Osbornes, where they were going to watch him be

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<v Speaker 2>a dad to his family and his kids, and he

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<v Speaker 2>had turned that down because he wasn't interested in playing

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<v Speaker 2>a father figure and he wasn't interested in sort of

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<v Speaker 2>being on camera, even though he loved be on camera

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<v Speaker 2>in that way. He was more interested in doing this

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<v Speaker 2>show because it was a business show and he could

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<v Speaker 2>use the money because he made two hundred and thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars hosting The Apprentice for fourteen seasons.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait waited

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<v Speaker 1>the money in other ways? Wait a second, hold on,

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<v Speaker 1>are you telling me Donald J. Trump made two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and thirteen million the entire time he was doing all

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<v Speaker 1>his seasons of The Apprentice?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? And you know why?

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<v Speaker 1>Why?

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<v Speaker 2>So back then reality TV was in its early stages, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so people didn't know really it was. Survivor was on,

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<v Speaker 2>Big Brother was on, the Real World. It was on,

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<v Speaker 2>but they weren't not. Survivor was a huge money making machine,

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<v Speaker 2>but they didn't know the extent to which how reality

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<v Speaker 2>TV would be or how big it would be, and

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<v Speaker 2>so when Mark Burnett sold The Apprentice to Jeff Zucker

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<v Speaker 2>at NBC, he said, I will give you the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump. Will do this for a very small salary,

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<v Speaker 2>but what I want in return is all the money

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<v Speaker 2>from any product placement that could be on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>And Jeff Zucker at the time didn't know how much

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<v Speaker 2>revenue they would generate from that, and so Mark Burnett

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<v Speaker 2>made this deal with Trump saying, you would get twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five thousand dollars an episode, but we're gonna split whatever

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<v Speaker 2>product placement we make, so big car company would come.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why every episode is like an ad. A big

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<v Speaker 2>car company would come. They'd say, we're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>this big car commercial. The contestants are going to work

0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.400
<v Speaker 2>on this car, and then Donald Trump and Mark Burnett

0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.240
<v Speaker 2>would split that fifty to fifty. They get five million

0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.199
<v Speaker 2>dollars just from the car commercial of our Car Challenge,

0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.280
<v Speaker 2>and they'd split that fifty to fifty. And I think

0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.319
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people don't know that's how Donald Trump

0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 2>became rich doing The Apprentice. It was through this deal

0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.000
<v Speaker 2>that Mark Burnett engineered early on where they split all

0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.199
<v Speaker 2>the advertising. So anything that's in the show, mattel Levi's jeans,

0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 2>the cereal companies that came on, the food companies that

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.160
<v Speaker 2>came on, all that money went directly in Donald Trump's pocket,

0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.680
<v Speaker 2>which is why he was always promoting them and seeming

0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.480
<v Speaker 2>interested when he would meet these executives and talking about

0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:14.840
<v Speaker 2>how great Donny Deutsche was or how great whoever was,

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 2>because this was leading to him pocketing millions of dollars.

0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.360
<v Speaker 1>My mouth is still on the floor, and I know

0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.679
<v Speaker 1>I have to talk, so excuse my pregnant pause. Two

0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:29.080
<v Speaker 1>hundred over two hundred million dollars. That's insane. And for

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.199
<v Speaker 1>my listeners, no housewife is making that much money. Ladies, gentlemen,

0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 1>and they just so you know, that's a shitload of money.

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 1>But it goes to show you how you really have

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 1>to be a maverick when it comes to sort of

0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.000
<v Speaker 1>figuring out how to make reality television work for you.

0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump is somebody who did it. Chris Jenner is

0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 1>somebody who did it with her entire family. Bethany Franco

0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 1>did it and was one of the first reality stars

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>to really use the platform to promote their businesses, because

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 1>you make money with the business. Now, did he ever

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:08.559
<v Speaker 1>want to Kardashian his family, because we did see Evanka

0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.439
<v Speaker 1>become pretty much a co star in the latter seasons,

0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 1>and we saw the other brothers make appearances. But listen,

0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.960
<v Speaker 1>it's no secret or it doesn't take a rocket scientist

0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 1>to know that Evanka is his favorite child. So did

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>he ever see this world where he wanted to use

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.559
<v Speaker 1>the genre to really make Trump a synonymous name in

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.880
<v Speaker 1>reality television like the Kardashians for example.

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.840
<v Speaker 2>You know it's funny, I'll answer that question. But Bethany Frinkle,

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.080
<v Speaker 2>remember she started out on The Apprentice. She was on

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.360
<v Speaker 2>the Martha start. There was a Martha Stuart version. We

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 2>get into all the drama of that in the book

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 2>how Martha Stuart tried to come in and take over

0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.320
<v Speaker 2>The Apprentice and Donald Trump was so upset and angry.

0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.040
<v Speaker 2>But what he learned from Martha was that Martha brought

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.840
<v Speaker 2>her daughter Alexis on to be one of the judges

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.120
<v Speaker 2>on the show. And so then when Donald saw that,

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 2>even though he was very resentful of the Martha version,

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 2>the next season, that's when he really started to push

0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that Avanka would be on as one

0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>of the judges in the boardroom, and I would argue

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 2>that he actually did try to Kardashi in his family.

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Because Avanka started to appear on the show, she was

0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 2>wearing high end designer clothes. From there, she started judging

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Project Runway, and then short time after that, we started

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 2>to see Evanka lines of clothing and stores, which you

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>know were then taken off the shelves after Trump became

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>president because of the backlash. But she started a jewelry line,

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 2>she started her shoes line. I remember my mom would

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 2>always see the Avanca line and Tjmax when she goes shopping.

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>So Avanka really became a mogul on her own, and

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I would say that it was the Kardashian effect for

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.000
<v Speaker 2>her because she then became a tastemaker at influence. So

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.720
<v Speaker 2>she had her own clothing line. People knew who she

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 2>No one knew who she was. She was someone who

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 2>had grown up as an EPO baby and was very

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 2>very had a very famous father. But Avanka became famous

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>because of The Apprentice because she sat next to her

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 2>father in the boardroom and she would conduct the firings

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and he trusted her and he liked her, and she

0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 2>was also great on camera.

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 1>They ever talked to you about what was going on

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>in terms of his relationships with some of the housewives

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>that he had on the show. I mean, Niani Leaks

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 1>appeared on the show, Teresa Judies appeared on the show.

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Did he ever like go into detail them or did

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 1>anybody the producer you speak to talk about the reason

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 1>why they wanted housewives, and particularly to be a part

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.479
<v Speaker 1>of Celebrity Apprentice.

0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.040
<v Speaker 2>So the reason they ended up with the Housewives was

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 2>that NBC had The Apprentice, and so seven seasons in

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 2>they realized that they couldn't. The ratings were bad, and

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>so they started adding celebrities. So Donald Trump was then

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.320
<v Speaker 2>judging the celebrities, and then the ratings went back up

0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 2>and NBC had the Housewives. So it was really good

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.600
<v Speaker 2>corporate synergy for them to then have the Housewives come on.

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 2>So there's information about Ninnie Leaks in this book. She

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 2>was There was one day that she swarmed off and

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump had to go into the sidewalk and convince

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 2>her to come back into the boardroom. We also talked

0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.880
<v Speaker 2>about a very famous boardroom in season fourteen UH where

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Kenya Moore and vivid a Fox. Do you remember this?

0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course is injected in my vein is my

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 1>blood type?

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we're fighting, and Heroldo was sitting in between them,

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 2>and Donald Trump was so excited when I brought up

0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 2>that boardroom. He talked about how people still talk about

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:18.920
<v Speaker 2>it to him and bring it up to him, and

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Eric said, it was very dark when they went through

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Kenya's phone and realized that she was tweeting from vivid

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a Fox's phone. It was just a very dark moment.

0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>But what was so interesting was that when he told

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>that story, he was watching the clip and he saw

0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>that Heraldo was very quiet because he was between the

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 2>two women and they were fighting, and Roaldo kind of

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.400
<v Speaker 2>slid by. Donald Trump then tells me a story about

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.640
<v Speaker 2>why he and Miroaldo had a falling out, and while

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>he was telling that story, he accidentally admitted Donald Trump

0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 2>for the first time to journalists that he lost selection

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:47.320
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty.

0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 1>So wait, wait, wait, that's breaking news.

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:56.320
<v Speaker 2>It is breaking news. You have to read the book

0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.800
<v Speaker 2>to get the full story. But I'm giving you the

0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm giving you some here, the cliff notes version. He said,

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 2>when I lost selection, Heralda called me and then catches

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.400
<v Speaker 2>himself and realizes what he said. So I actually think

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 2>that Donald Trump knows that he lost election, but he's

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.720
<v Speaker 2>playing a reality character and he knows how much attention

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 2>he gets for denying that he lost selection. So this

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.640
<v Speaker 2>is like really really high level performance art that we're

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.320
<v Speaker 2>dealing with. Because Donald Trump is a reality star, and

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I think that's really important for people to remember when

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 2>you look at politics and what he's doing. He's a

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 2>reality star. He's a very good reality star, and we're

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.400
<v Speaker 2>now all living in his reality.

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 1>I am so fascinated by this because the thing I

0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.680
<v Speaker 1>always to try to tell my audience about reality stars

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.639
<v Speaker 1>is the fact that they're not normal, and that's not

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 1>a dig there's nothing negative about that. They're not normal

0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 1>in the sense of how they operate. They have a

0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 1>high self esteem, of confidence. Some have this delusion of grander.

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.160
<v Speaker 1>It's if you want to be the biggest reality star

0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.200
<v Speaker 1>in the world, you have to have bigahnahs, you have

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 1>to have to have grit, and you have to have

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>this sense of high self esteem and not really understand

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.720
<v Speaker 1>the real world. Because when I deal with some reality stars,

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.240
<v Speaker 1>the stuff that they talk about, I'm like, that's not

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 1>happening at all, Like you made this up in your mind.

0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.040
<v Speaker 3>You convinced yourself that we are against you, or that

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.640
<v Speaker 3>somebody's against you, and that's not the quote unquote reality

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.120
<v Speaker 3>of this situation, as you were fortunate enough to have

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 3>these many sit downs with him.

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Is it a character trait that he just has to

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 1>where like most reality stars, he truly does believe his

0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.120
<v Speaker 1>own hype or does he know like I'm playing a character,

0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 1>which we call the real life special is when the

0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.080
<v Speaker 1>real light comes on the camera and you just all

0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.480
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden become like this person, and then when

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the camera's off, you're back to normal. Which one would

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 1>you say he is? Or is he a little bit

0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 1>of both?

0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.240
<v Speaker 2>I think what happened was the red light turned on

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.119
<v Speaker 2>and the Red Light Special never went away. So I

0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 2>think the character he played on TV then started to

0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.400
<v Speaker 2>become his own personality. And that was actually an analogy.

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 2>One of the contestants from season one, his name was Sam,

0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 2>told me it's kind of like when he thought he

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.640
<v Speaker 2>was playing a character and then he became that character.

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Another executive NBC also compared it to Austin Butler when

0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>he was Elvis. You know how he was like mumbling

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:23.800
<v Speaker 2>on his press tour and we couldn't tell what was

0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 2>going on because he was like talking like Elvis even

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.760
<v Speaker 2>though he was a real person and he was trying

0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.240
<v Speaker 2>to be Austin Butler. That's what Donald Trump I think

0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>is like he played this character on The Apprentice for

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 2>fourteen seasons. He got so much positive affirmation, so much money,

0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.679
<v Speaker 2>so much encouragement, so much love from the American public,

0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.640
<v Speaker 2>that that then became part of his personality. Because when

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I sat down with him, it's not like he was

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 2>different than he is on TV. He's actually very similar

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 2>than he is on TV. He's funny, he says things

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.879
<v Speaker 2>that sometimes don't make sense that you know, tangents. But

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:55.879
<v Speaker 2>he is a reality star, and he does drink his

0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.080
<v Speaker 2>own kool aid, and he does believe he's the very best,

0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.959
<v Speaker 2>and he does believe he deserves anything. And he does

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 2>I believe he should run again. He believes in himself.

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.360
<v Speaker 2>He has that confidence that a reality star has. And

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 2>we're all along again. We're all along for this ride.

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And one of the reasons why I call this book

0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Apprentice in Wonderland. It's like Alice in Wonderland, Right, we

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.159
<v Speaker 2>all went down the rabbit hole with him. But we

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>can't wake up, we can't go back to regular life

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.760
<v Speaker 2>because reality TV is now taken over the White House.

0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Fascinating. I'm beyond fascinated by this. Speaking of fascination, I'm

0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 1>a Rosa Manigault, Okay, I mean when The Apprentice first debut,

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:37.040
<v Speaker 1>I was maybe a sophomore in college, I believe, and

0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.480
<v Speaker 1>in my journalism class, we were all just given like

0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 1>topics right about and I'm like, I'm going to talk

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 1>about like I'm a Rosa Madigal at the Apprentice. So

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.760
<v Speaker 1>my headline was, you know, the angry Black Woman.

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:51.920
<v Speaker 2>And at the time, yes.

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no, please please feel free. No, it

0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>was this. It was the first time we kind of

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.840
<v Speaker 1>heard this sort of acron was called ABW is still

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.240
<v Speaker 1>for angry Black Women, and Amorrosa was like the face

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of it. And it was when television, whether it was

0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 1>scripted or unscripted, was kind of going down this path

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>of showing black women, you know, being very assertive and

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know, talking loud or whatever the journalists

0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 1>and the media we're saying out the time. So long

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.960
<v Speaker 1>story short, I've always been fascinated by her she then

0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 1>became an employee at the White House. So when it

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 1>came from when it came to Amrosa, what was the

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.639
<v Speaker 1>decision making not only casting her and keeping her on

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 1>the Apprentice to make appearances that ultimately led to her

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>having a position in the White House.

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the perfect example of the thesis of

0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.160
<v Speaker 2>this book, which is that reality TV came crashing into

0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 2>the real world, and we can't now take that back,

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.679
<v Speaker 2>because you're right, Amrosa was a character and she was

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.640
<v Speaker 2>the villain. And it was also very controversial because she

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.719
<v Speaker 2>was the only black woman on the first season and

0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.159
<v Speaker 2>she was being portrayed as a villain, and it was

0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a stereotype and a lot of people at the time,

0:22:13.080 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I remember this was before social media, but found it

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.159
<v Speaker 2>very offensive that Amrosa was saying one thing to her

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.760
<v Speaker 2>contestant and then trying to undermine them. She wasn't a

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.560
<v Speaker 2>team player, she was creating drama for the sake of drama.

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.159
<v Speaker 2>She wasn't being honest. And remember when she was in

0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>that construction site and a piece of construction, Eric Trump

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>talked to me about this actually Donald Trump's, so it

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 2>fell on her shoulder, and then she claimed that she

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.840
<v Speaker 2>had a concussion and she couldn't work, and she sat

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.639
<v Speaker 2>down and she couldn't. So the book goes through the

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 2>evolution of Amrosa, and I talked to Donald Trump about

0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.680
<v Speaker 2>arm Morosa, and so in season one, the first time

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.359
<v Speaker 2>she was on the show, what happened was that she

0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.080
<v Speaker 2>was that character. She was who she was undermining people

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>and kind of backstabbing people. And because she became so popular,

0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>they brought her back with two seasons of Celebrity Apprentice,

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.080
<v Speaker 2>even though she wasn't really celebrity, but maybe she was

0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.720
<v Speaker 2>because she's Amors and everyone knows who she is. And

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump really loved her, loved the ratings, loved the drama,

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:09.960
<v Speaker 2>loved that there was no way that her spotlight would

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:11.919
<v Speaker 2>be bigger than his because he was more famous than

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.920
<v Speaker 2>she was, and that she relied on him for her fame.

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 2>And then he brings her into the White House, and

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:19.879
<v Speaker 2>he tells me in the book that a lot of

0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.680
<v Speaker 2>people warned him against it and he didn't think it

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.399
<v Speaker 2>would end well, but he still brought her in because

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.680
<v Speaker 2>he's conditioned to think about ratings, right, and Amrosa always

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 2>brings ratings, and by bringing in he throws people. He

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 2>gets a lot of press. People are confused, they're interested,

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 2>like that's the way Donald Trump operates. And then when

0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 2>it goes badly and she secretly tapes records him and

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 2>writes her tell all book, he feels he genuinely feels

0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 2>very betrayed by her. He claimed to me that he

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 2>didn't see her much in the White House, although we

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.400
<v Speaker 2>know from her book that they did see each other

0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.760
<v Speaker 2>quite a bit and that she couldn't cut the mustard

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:53.639
<v Speaker 2>in the White House. And if you read the book

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:56.480
<v Speaker 2>in full, you'll see his descriptions of her and their feud.

0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>But Donald Trump really thrives on feuds. He loves feuds,

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.680
<v Speaker 2>and am Rossa was a phenomenon in his life and

0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.440
<v Speaker 2>a huge star as a results of The Apprentice.

0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:13.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so one of his decision making calls, you're you're.

0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:14.800
<v Speaker 2>At You're at a loss for words.

0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, no, this is this is I mean, listen,

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.040
<v Speaker 1>me and my listeners are like gagging at the same time.

0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 1>But that's how we are. No, I'm shocked, although I

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:26.520
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be, but whatever, I am.

0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 2>But it's shock. It's shocking. It's shocking that the reality

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>TV that we All Love and Watch has now infiltrated

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:37.560
<v Speaker 2>the White House and there's no way to pull it back.

0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:40.840
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of journalists and people that interact with Trump,

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 2>probably unlike your listeners, aren't so well versed in reality TV,

0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.480
<v Speaker 2>so they're not looking at Donald Trump like a reality star.

0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:49.240
<v Speaker 2>That's one of the arguments of this book, and it

0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 2>is a page turner. It is really juicy. But when

0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 2>you get to the end, there's a huge scene at

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:54.719
<v Speaker 2>the end where I go to mar A Lago and

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 2>I really we really realize and see how the reality

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 2>star of Donald Trump is lined up with who he's

0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 2>trying to be as a politician and this illusion that

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 2>we have and this mirage that he's created, and really

0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 2>the repercussions of reality TV in our culture.

0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 1>One thing I know, being a reality producer, that I

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 1>get flag for is like, is it real? Is it scripted?

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:18.399
<v Speaker 1>Did you guys like make the sub Are they fighting

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 1>for no reason? All those things? And when you look

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 1>at the political climate right now, right it's like nothing

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen before in my lifetime. And my jaw

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 1>is constantly dropping when it comes to just how listen,

0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people, whether they're senators whatever role they play,

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the White House or even in DC.

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people are becoming famous based on the

0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 1>arguments that are happening in Congress, you know, based on

0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:56.400
<v Speaker 1>us giving you know, getting access to kind of seeing

0:25:56.520 --> 0:25:59.000
<v Speaker 1>how some of these situations are current, whether it's trying

0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:02.160
<v Speaker 1>to pass the bill or whatever discussions that are happening,

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:06.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, in DC, and we're seeing like people cuss

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:11.280
<v Speaker 1>each other out. We're seeing people damn there coming to blows,

0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, fighting. We saw obviously what happened on January sixth,

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 1>you know that the insurrectionists. You make a really good point,

0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and I wonder if Donald Trump realizes that he and

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 1>I'll say this, Donald Trump to me single handedly turned Washington,

0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.159
<v Speaker 1>d C. On its head and the White House and

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:44.679
<v Speaker 1>everything we were taught growing up studying a government or

0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:47.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, judge things about the United States of America

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 1>that he single handily flipped it and turned this into

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.960
<v Speaker 1>things that we will watch or reality TV, Like, does

0:26:56.040 --> 0:27:00.600
<v Speaker 1>you take any ownership in what DC and the White

0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:01.439
<v Speaker 1>House has become.

0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:06.199
<v Speaker 2>The only ownership he takes is pride that he was

0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>able to come in as an outsider and shake things up.

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 2>But you also know, for every reality TV star, especially

0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.800
<v Speaker 2>the ones that behave badly, they're not going to ever say, oh, well,

0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:18.439
<v Speaker 2>I admit I shouldn't have done that. They don't apologize,

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:22.000
<v Speaker 2>they don't admit defeat, they don't admit fault. And these

0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 2>are all qualities in Donald Trump. But he again has

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.119
<v Speaker 2>always been rewarded for being a great reality star, so

0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 2>he has no incentive to say, you know what, I

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 2>take ownership for the fact that I've done this or

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 2>this or now GC's a mess. He's claiming he quote

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 2>drains the swamp. He's claiming he's an outsider that's going

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 2>to fix things and build a wall. He's claiming all

0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:44.160
<v Speaker 2>these certain things. But again, it's the training in reality

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 2>TV that has led him this way. And the only

0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>way in which I think we can really understand what

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:52.639
<v Speaker 2>happened is by going back and studying the Apprentice and

0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:56.119
<v Speaker 2>unpacking what we as an American country and as a

0:27:56.160 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>society have contributed to this and understanding what's happening. Because

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 2>the media right now, the way they're covering him, they're

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:04.760
<v Speaker 2>acting again like he's a traditional candidate, and he's not.

0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.359
<v Speaker 2>He's our first reality TV president, and we have to

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 2>educate ourselves on what exactly is happening here.

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Do you think he'll win again and this later this year?

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that based on all the time I spent

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 2>with him, and based on understanding the way he uses

0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 2>the cameras and the media and attention and the spotlight.

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Although there are a lot of people that don't like

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:25.879
<v Speaker 2>him and are mad at him, and he's now a fellon,

0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I do think he has a very good chance of winning, guess.

0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of it has to do with the

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.439
<v Speaker 1>fact that he knows how to use the power of

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the media for his benefit.

0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 2>He understands the value of cameras following him everywhere, and

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>by following him more than anyone else, he ends up

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:46.080
<v Speaker 2>being the winner by default. Right, So we're only talking

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.480
<v Speaker 2>about him. So when November comes around, although there's so

0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 2>much baggage and problems and legal issues, if you've only

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 2>paid attention to Donald Trump, he's making the calculation that

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:58.200
<v Speaker 2>people are gonna en up voting for him. He's turned

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 2>the presidency into a sense a popularity contest, and he's

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:03.960
<v Speaker 2>just trying to get the most amount of attention.

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, Okay, I want to move into his uncensort thoughts

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>about the celebrities he's been in contact with, whether it's

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 1>been on The Apprentice or justin life. Can you give

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 1>us some tea? And yes, guys, please buy. The book

0:29:20.640 --> 0:29:25.280
<v Speaker 1>is out in stores now. Apprentice in Wonderland. Okay, So

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:29.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you some names I want you

0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:32.840
<v Speaker 1>doesn't give it a little tidbit about his fossil them,

0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Taylor Swift.

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Taylor Swift was interesting because this was in mar A

0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Lago and I asked him this Taylor was on her

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Aeros tours. She's still on her Aras tour. What he

0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>thinks of Taylor and Taylor had come out in twenty

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 2>twenty and actually says she was a Democrat because in

0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:51.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen we didn't know. And it was very interesting

0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 2>because Donald Trump loves picking fights with celebrities. He loves

0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:56.840
<v Speaker 2>going ahead to head with celebrities. But even he knows

0:29:57.080 --> 0:30:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that the Swifties are very loyal and Taylor Swift is very,

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 2>very famous. So he describes her to me in very

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:08.080
<v Speaker 2>hedged language. He holds back and rather than talk anything

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:12.160
<v Speaker 2>about her, say anything negative, he calls her beautiful, very beautiful,

0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:15.520
<v Speaker 2>unconventionally beautiful, and used the word beautiful five times in

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 2>describing Taylor Swift. Then he asked He said he knew

0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that she probably doesn't like Trump and then asked me

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 2>how as a country star that was possible. And I

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.200
<v Speaker 2>had to then explain to the former president. I states

0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:28.440
<v Speaker 2>that Taylor Swift is no longer a country star. She

0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:31.760
<v Speaker 2>makes pop music. And he was, you know, kind of

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.040
<v Speaker 2>a little confused about that, claimed that he didn't listen

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.240
<v Speaker 2>to her music, and then asked me how Garth Brooks

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:39.040
<v Speaker 2>doesn't support him, because Garth Brooks is a country star,

0:30:39.120 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 2>so obviously Hollywood is very important to him and famous

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.960
<v Speaker 2>people are very important to him. But he held back

0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:47.479
<v Speaker 2>on Taylor and just commented on her beauty. And as

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 2>a result of that, the Swifties have now come out

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.560
<v Speaker 2>in full force and they do not like this at all. Wait.

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Wait, the Swifties don't like any of this.

0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:56.880
<v Speaker 3>No.

0:30:57.000 --> 0:31:00.320
<v Speaker 2>They trended on Twitter when this part came out. They said,

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:06.040
<v Speaker 2>stay away from her. Ah, Donald Trump commenting on Taylor

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Swift's beauty. They do not like that. Even the nice

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 2>thing he said about her did not sit well with them.

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm laughing because I'm like he tried his best

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>not to have the swifties attack him, and they're doing

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 1>it anyway because you're calling her beautiful, So that to

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.719
<v Speaker 1>me is super funny. He's afraid of the swift day.

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:26.400
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna have to read the way and describe it.

0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:29.440
<v Speaker 2>He does it in a weird way because he keeps

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:31.320
<v Speaker 2>repeating it over and over again. So I think to

0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 2>him as a compliment, but I think to other people

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 2>that read it, it did read a little creepy.

0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Chloe Kardashian.

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 2>So, Chloe Kardashian was on The Celebrity Apprentice. This was

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>in the early seasons of the Kardashians and she hadn't

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:46.120
<v Speaker 2>blown up, and at the time, Donald Trump was very

0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:49.240
<v Speaker 2>upset that Kim wasn't the contestant, that they only got Chloe,

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 2>and Kim was on Dancing with the Stars. So there

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 2>was a Huffington Post article about Chloe being fired from

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 2>the show because Donald Trump thought quote that she was

0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.640
<v Speaker 2>overweight at the time. And so when I mentioned Chloe

0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and we watched a clip of Chloe, he told me

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:05.920
<v Speaker 2>that he had seen her recently and she looked quote

0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:08.840
<v Speaker 2>so much better, and that she couldn't cut it on

0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 2>The Apprentice because she wasn't tough enough. But there are

0:32:11.440 --> 0:32:14.080
<v Speaker 2>producers who talked about the Hoppington post and me and

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 2>said that she was He was very misogynistic toward her

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>and made comments about her weight behind her back. So

0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:21.360
<v Speaker 2>it was a very ugly chapter in her life. And

0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Chloe has come out and said how she really didn't

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 2>enjoy being on the show.

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:31.240
<v Speaker 1>Yikes, yikes, yikes. Okay, I got two more for you.

0:32:32.360 --> 0:32:33.520
<v Speaker 1>Dennis Rodman.

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:36.959
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump loves Dennis Rodman. He was on The Celebrity

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Apprentice twice. He said that Dennis Rodman was cool. He

0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:45.160
<v Speaker 2>dated Madonna back in the day, which Sean Trump really liked. Again,

0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:48.480
<v Speaker 2>it's connection to celebrity, and he actually said, believe it

0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 2>or not that when he was thinking about talking to

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Kim Jong un of North Korea, the dictator of North Korea,

0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:56.840
<v Speaker 2>he thought about calling Dennis Rodman and asking him for

0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:59.840
<v Speaker 2>advice because he felt like Dennis Rodman knew more than

0:32:59.880 --> 0:33:02.479
<v Speaker 2>the White House advisors who were there to help him

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 2>about international relations. And when Donald Trump sat down with

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Kim Jong Un, he brought up Dennis Rodman and their

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 2>association and mutual friendship with Dennis Rodman. So he talked

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:15.880
<v Speaker 2>to the North Korean dictator about Dennis Rodman being on

0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Celebrity Apprentice, but he is a huge fan of Dennis

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Rodman's and he said he got Donald Trump got black

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:25.920
<v Speaker 2>because Dennis Rodman was drunk in the first time around,

0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:28.120
<v Speaker 2>and Donald Trump just wouldn't fire him because he was

0:33:28.160 --> 0:33:30.720
<v Speaker 2>so good for the cameras. And he finally got fired.

0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember why he got fired? Because there was

0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:34.720
<v Speaker 2>a project where they had to do something for Malania's

0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:39.080
<v Speaker 2>beauty line and they sell Milania's name wrong and Dennis

0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Rodman didn't catch statt and so Milania was very offended.

0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>And Donald Trump and I watched that clip and he

0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:47.560
<v Speaker 2>really lit up that Milania was because there's so much

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.920
<v Speaker 2>speculation about what's going on Donald and Malania, but he

0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:52.200
<v Speaker 2>lit up that Malania was funny on the show, and

0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 2>he really liked that his wife had a chance to

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:54.920
<v Speaker 2>be funny on the show.

0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh jees, this is so juicy. Okay, one more Debra

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 1>met saying, which we all love, will and Grace. What

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 1>did he say about my grace?

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So this is going to be a huge surprise

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.239
<v Speaker 2>to your listeners. But Donald Trump and Debra Messing have

0:34:10.320 --> 0:34:12.879
<v Speaker 2>been fighting and feuding for years because she's obviously very

0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:16.520
<v Speaker 2>liberal and was very very she went after him on

0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:19.360
<v Speaker 2>social media when he became president, understandably so for his policies.

0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:21.880
<v Speaker 2>So back in the day, the Apprentice of Will and

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Grace were on the same night, and Donald Trump told

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:27.240
<v Speaker 2>me that they were at an NBC event and Deborah

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Messing came up to him and was very complimentary and

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 2>very flattering, very thankful that the Apprentice was helping the network,

0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:36.279
<v Speaker 2>and he admitted to me that he found her to

0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:40.000
<v Speaker 2>be very, very attractive and beautiful, and he almost seemed

0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.440
<v Speaker 2>hurt that Deborah Messing, who he seemed to have a

0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:44.919
<v Speaker 2>crush on and talking about her and language that sort

0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:47.920
<v Speaker 2>of suggested that he had a crush on her, no

0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>longer liked him. And it almost was like again a

0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:53.720
<v Speaker 2>scene out of a reality TV show where Donald Trump

0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.120
<v Speaker 2>liked Deborah Messing, Deva Messing stopped liking Donald Trump, so

0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 2>and now Donald Trump doesn't like Debora Messing and they

0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:01.080
<v Speaker 2>had in this messy, messy feud. But there's an entire

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.279
<v Speaker 2>section of this book about Will and Grace because Donald

0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:06.799
<v Speaker 2>Trump also saying at the Emmys with Megan Malally and

0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 2>he talks about why he's sang Green Acres at the

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Emmys with Megan Malually and what prompted him to do

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:13.960
<v Speaker 2>that live on television.

0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Every story just gets better and better and better. And

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:24.279
<v Speaker 1>one thing you talked about earlier was policy, and I

0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:30.920
<v Speaker 1>do hear some of his policies as president he got

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:36.160
<v Speaker 1>from doing celebrity princes or just the princess in general.

0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>In terms of well, you know, inviting the kash Kim

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Kardashian into the White House. That's a total reality star move.

0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Going to Dennis Rodman when talking about, you know, North Korea,

0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.680
<v Speaker 2>when he signed a Farmersville and he couldn't really remember

0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:54.560
<v Speaker 2>what the farmer's bill was, but he posted at the

0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:58.080
<v Speaker 2>time a clip of himself singing at the Emmys. Everything

0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>he does always traces back to show business. So he

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.399
<v Speaker 2>governs the country as a reality star, and I think

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:05.920
<v Speaker 2>that's really important for people to understand. He makes his

0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 2>decisions based on what was successful when he was on

0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:11.719
<v Speaker 2>the Apprentice, and that's what he knows, and that's the

0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 2>world he knows. So if you go back and you

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 2>look at what he's effective at, or what he tried

0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:18.600
<v Speaker 2>to do, or why he was able to not really

0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:21.880
<v Speaker 2>do anything during COVID. It's because there are limits to

0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:24.480
<v Speaker 2>start them right, There's only so much to do as

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:27.280
<v Speaker 2>an influencer, as a reality star, and when it actually

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.040
<v Speaker 2>you have to actually move the needle and make tough decisions.

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:31.920
<v Speaker 2>It's a little harder in the real world than it

0:36:31.960 --> 0:36:32.560
<v Speaker 2>is on TV.

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Did you get a sense from him that he loves

0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 1>politics or he just sees this as like a gig.

0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:40.760
<v Speaker 2>He seemed so much happier when talking about The Apprentice

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.080
<v Speaker 2>than when talking about Washington, DC. Because when he was

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:45.839
<v Speaker 2>on The Apprentice, he was a character that people liked,

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:47.960
<v Speaker 2>and as president, he's not a character that people like.

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.200
<v Speaker 1>So that's the thing. And again to bring it back

0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:54.720
<v Speaker 1>to reality stars. So I always tell people reality stars

0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:57.840
<v Speaker 1>are the most sensitive group of people in the world

0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.839
<v Speaker 1>because they're being judged for, you know, oftentimes being their

0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:07.320
<v Speaker 1>authentic selves. And all reality stars, at least in the beginning,

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:12.120
<v Speaker 1>they're obsessed with the comments on social media. They have

0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:16.160
<v Speaker 1>this need to be liked by everybody. I always got

0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:19.759
<v Speaker 1>this sense that when he became president. Yes, he has

0:37:19.800 --> 0:37:22.480
<v Speaker 1>his base, you know, he has his fans, and he

0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:27.719
<v Speaker 1>has people who clearly are obsessed with him. But I

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:33.840
<v Speaker 1>always felt that he did not enjoy Hollywood, the one

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.600
<v Speaker 1>industry to me that he seemed to be happy to

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 1>thrive in that they shun him, and to me, I

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 1>feel like he still is upset about that.

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.839
<v Speaker 2>He's very upset about that. You'll see that in the book.

0:37:49.880 --> 0:37:52.960
<v Speaker 2>He's obsessed with Hollywood. He told me he spent a

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of time talking about Hollywood, the people that betrayed him,

0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:57.160
<v Speaker 2>the people that he used to invite over his house

0:37:57.200 --> 0:37:59.840
<v Speaker 2>that no longer want to talk to him. He claimed

0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:02.920
<v Speaker 2>that he's winning the vote secretly. Guess where. Not in

0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Ohio and Florida, not in any of the swing states.

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.920
<v Speaker 2>He told me he's secretly winning the vote in Beverly Hills.

0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Why Beverly Hills. Not just the housewives, but a lot

0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:14.080
<v Speaker 2>of celebrities live there, And so he wanted me to

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:17.399
<v Speaker 2>know that secretly, in Beverly Hills people support him. He's

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.480
<v Speaker 2>also very upset still after all these years, that he

0:38:19.560 --> 0:38:21.320
<v Speaker 2>never won an Emmy for The Apprentice. But that's a

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:22.000
<v Speaker 2>whole other story.

0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 1>And ah, I mean, look, at the end of the day,

0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:32.040
<v Speaker 1>the Apprincess was legendary. It was an iconic show. I

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.319
<v Speaker 1>am shocked and did not win an Emmy. Speaking of

0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 1>which two more questions. Did you speak to Mark Burnett

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:39.399
<v Speaker 1>at all?

0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Mark Burnett and I communicated for this book. He did

0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 2>not want to do an official on the record interview.

0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:49.919
<v Speaker 2>But he is in this book and you will see

0:38:49.960 --> 0:38:51.600
<v Speaker 2>how he's in this book when you read the book.

0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:54.400
<v Speaker 2>But his presence is certainly in the book throughout the book.

0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh, he's so legendary. I just he was.

0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:00.319
<v Speaker 2>One of the stories that was interesting was that he

0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:04.400
<v Speaker 2>really really really hates the contestants when they came into

0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 2>audition for the show. So there was a Contestancias and won.

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Her name was Heidi. She was a fan favorite. She

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:11.840
<v Speaker 2>told me when she walked in. The first thing he

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.680
<v Speaker 2>said to her was, Oh, that purse that you have

0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:16.680
<v Speaker 2>is a fake perse She was carrying a Gucci at

0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 2>the time, and he did that to really try to

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:21.520
<v Speaker 2>rile her up to see what kind of reality star

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:24.799
<v Speaker 2>she would be. But there's a lot if you love

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:26.719
<v Speaker 2>reality TV, there's also a lot in this book where

0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it deconstructs the process in which they found the contestants,

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:31.560
<v Speaker 2>what it was like behind the scenes, because he's again

0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:33.960
<v Speaker 2>this was in the early days of reality TV. How

0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:37.239
<v Speaker 2>Mark Burnett pulled all the levers they had. They were

0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:39.319
<v Speaker 2>all once they were vote off the show. They all

0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:42.080
<v Speaker 2>lived together in a hotel, but they gave up their phones,

0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:44.120
<v Speaker 2>they gave it their wallets, They had no contact with

0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the outside world. They really controlled these contestants to try

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:50.280
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that they weren't influencing what was happening.

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 2>And Donald Trump, weirdly enough, hung out with them when

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the cameras weren't rolling. So with other reality hosts, they

0:39:56.400 --> 0:39:58.080
<v Speaker 2>really don't want to be near the contestants when the

0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:00.320
<v Speaker 2>show's over. But Donald Trump really liked them. But we

0:40:00.440 --> 0:40:02.480
<v Speaker 2>go into the whole process and we see how Mark

0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Burnett was the ultimate puppet master and really controlling everyone.

0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Mmmmmmmmmmm. Okay, So last question for you. This is Juicy one, okay,

0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:19.920
<v Speaker 1>and the book Trump shares his biggest regret in show business.

0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.760
<v Speaker 2>His biggest regret in show business. He claims that Jeff

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Zucker got his job in CNN because Donald Trump helped

0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:31.400
<v Speaker 2>him and gave him a recommendation with an influential executive

0:40:31.400 --> 0:40:34.719
<v Speaker 2>at CNN. And so Donald Trump thought that by helping

0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Zucker go to CNN, he would always get really

0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 2>nice coverage from CNN. And then they had a huge

0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 2>crazy falling out. But wait, can I tell you one

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:44.880
<v Speaker 2>more thing, one more story, one more story.

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:46.759
<v Speaker 1>By all means yes.

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:49.960
<v Speaker 2>So the funniest story that he told me, And it

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:53.480
<v Speaker 2>wasn't intentionally trying to be funny, but he had. The

0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:55.920
<v Speaker 2>entire family has a tremendous affection for John Rivers. She

0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 2>won the second season of Celebrity Apprentice. She was, you know,

0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:01.960
<v Speaker 2>her care was in a tough place, and then she

0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:04.399
<v Speaker 2>came back because of the show and ended up doing

0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:06.480
<v Speaker 2>more on e and was in one of the Iron

0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Man movies, iron Man three, I think, And so being

0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:10.640
<v Speaker 2>on the Celebrity Apprentice really helped Joan and she credited

0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump with a lot of that. And so Donald

0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Trump told me, he said that Joan really, you know,

0:41:15.560 --> 0:41:18.960
<v Speaker 2>respected her, respected him. Joan really respected Donald Trump and

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:21.759
<v Speaker 2>really admired him. And he said, I know for a

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:25.160
<v Speaker 2>fact that Joan Rivers voted for me in twenty sixteen.

0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 2>The only problem with that was that Joan Rivers wasn't alive.

0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:36.120
<v Speaker 2>But again, he's a reality star. He knows the good

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:39.160
<v Speaker 2>sound lights to say they're not true. But that's a

0:41:39.200 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 2>great confessional watch on a reality show. And then the

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.800
<v Speaker 2>producer would have to cut to like someone else saying, actually,

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:47.000
<v Speaker 2>mister President, he's no longer with it, she was no

0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:47.640
<v Speaker 2>longer with us.

0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, and everyone you have it there. I mean, listen,

0:41:54.840 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 1>this book is so juicy. I literally want to nestle

0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:03.799
<v Speaker 1>up in my bed, like like I did with The

0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Ladies Who Punched. By the way, I like read that

0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:09.239
<v Speaker 1>over three day weekend. I was like flying and I'm

0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.480
<v Speaker 1>like on the plane, I had a long flight. I'm like,

0:42:12.040 --> 0:42:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I was so into it because you're such a genius

0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 1>at making us the reader feel like we're in the

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:22.720
<v Speaker 1>room having these conversations that you're having with these people,

0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.719
<v Speaker 1>and the access that you're able to get is just splendid.

0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:31.800
<v Speaker 1>It's I mean, job well done on this. And I listen,

0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 1>I smell another best seller from you with this one,

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:39.719
<v Speaker 1>my friend. It's thank you so much.

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Let me know when you read it. And I think

0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 2>you can just read it on a beach over the

0:42:42.640 --> 0:42:45.040
<v Speaker 2>holiday weekend or if you're going on a trip somewhere,

0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.120
<v Speaker 2>like it's a fast read and I can't wait to

0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 2>hear what you think.

0:42:48.360 --> 0:42:51.840
<v Speaker 1>No, I certainly will, certainly will so again. Rain Drops

0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:56.319
<v Speaker 1>Apprentice in Wonderland is out in stores. Now is out

0:42:56.360 --> 0:43:00.279
<v Speaker 1>in bookstores and they can get this like online, where

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:01.160
<v Speaker 1>can everyone get this?

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:04.759
<v Speaker 2>Amazon? You can get a Kindle version, you can get

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:07.520
<v Speaker 2>an audiobook version. It's wherever books are sold, Bars and Noble.

0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:09.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a widely released book and you can get it

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:11.080
<v Speaker 2>wherever books are sold.

0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for hopping on Reality with the

0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:16.600
<v Speaker 1>King has been an honor and a pleasure to meet you. Finally,

0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:18.560
<v Speaker 1>like I said, I'm a huge fan of your work

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:20.520
<v Speaker 1>and I know I'm going to be a huge fan

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:26.080
<v Speaker 1>of this book too. Thank you for listening to Reality

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:32.680
<v Speaker 1>with the King. New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Share, comment, follow,

0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:36.480
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe to Reality with the King wherever you get

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:41.200
<v Speaker 1>your podcast, visit Reality Withtheking dot com and be sure

0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 1>to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok,

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 1>and yes Baby, my YouTube channel where you could get

0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:54.560
<v Speaker 1>all of my visuals, baby, my expressions. Yet, don't forget

0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:58.279
<v Speaker 1>tweet me your thoughts and hot takes about this episode

0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:03.440
<v Speaker 1>using the hashtag Reality with the King. Reality with the

0:44:03.520 --> 0:44:07.839
<v Speaker 1>King is a production of Kingdom Ragin Entertainment. It is

0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:12.360
<v Speaker 1>produced by Sierra Spragley Rix an executive produced by me

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Carlos King Kingdom Reign Entertainment, Baby