1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Hey rain Drops. Yes, so I finally got merch. That's right. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: You can buy your allegedly and my Boys mugs, T shirts, 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: rain Drops, hoodies and T shirts all on Carlos Kingshop 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: dot com. That's right. Get your hoodies, your T shirts, 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: and your mugs all on Carlos Kingshop dot com. Welcome 6 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: to Reality with the King. It's me Carlos kings the 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: King of Reality TV and one of the most sought 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: after executive producers in reality television with over ten years 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: a production experience. Twice a week on Reality with the King, 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: recap our favorite reality shows, and revisit unforgettable moments that 12 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey rain Drops. 13 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: On today's episode Reality with the King. Oh honey, I'm 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: here with a very special guest. I'm a fan of 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: his work. He wrote the book that I love because 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: you all know I'm a huge fan of the view. 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: Megan McCain is one of my good friends, as you 18 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: all know too, because she's always against this podcast. But 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: this guy has another book out called A Prentice in Wonderland. 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: How Donald Trump and Mark Burnett took America through the 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: looking glass, so please give it up for a man Satuda. 22 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Carlos, I'm so 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: excited to be here with you today. 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: No, thank you so much for taking time out of 25 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: your very busy press week. The book is out now. 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm super stoked because listen, I'm such a fan of 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: the Ladies Who Punch. It was such a great book, 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: and anybody who's a fan of the view it was 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: sort of like the National Choir meets Vanity Fair meets 30 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: US Weekly. You know. It gave me everything I needed 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: and wanted. So I'm looking for to your new book, 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: which is out right now. But talk to me about 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: this book because I'm hearing it is such a deep 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: dive in how Donald Trump and Mark Burnett collectively sort 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: of creative as character that we saw on The Apprentice 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: that inevitably became the President of the United States of America. 37 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 2: You described that perfectly. This is a book about how 38 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: reality TV, which I know your listeners love and watch 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: and talk about, change the world because it made millions 40 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: of people believe that the Donald Trump that they saw 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 2: on The Apprentice playing this boss of the boardroom could 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: actually lead the country. And in the same way that 43 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: my book about the View is juicy and dishy and 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: has a lot of interviews and a lot of bombshells 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: and revelations, Apprentice in Wonderland also takes you inside this 46 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: reality TV show and talks about all the ups and 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 2: downs and dysfunction and drama and craziness that was going 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: on behind the scenes. But I also talked to Donald Trump. 49 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: He and I sat down and I interviewed him four 50 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: times since he left the White House. We talked two 51 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 2: other times on the phone, so six interviews total, where 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: I asked him about everything from am Rosa to why 53 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: he ended up firing certain boardroom advisors or certain contestants, 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: to his bringing his kids on the show, which is 55 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: why Ivanka and Don Junior became famous to America. So 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: this really goes through the entire evolution of reality TV. 57 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: And it was the same thing he ended up using, 58 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: the same template he ended up using when he ran 59 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: for the White House. So this isn't really a political book, 60 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: but it's about how Hollywood and politics converge and how 61 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: now we're living in this alternate reality because the president 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: of the United States could be a reality star. 63 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: Again, talk to me about The Apprentice, because what I'm 64 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: so fascinated that you're talking about in this book is 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: the fact that he did The Apprentice to really sort 66 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: of not only put his name out there, because we 67 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: already see that with the Trump you know, in Blaze 68 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: on every single building in New York City, you know, 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: Florida and Las Vegas. But he really wanted to become 70 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: somebody that the entire world knew. So when he first 71 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: met with Mark Burnett, what was that first meeting, like, like, 72 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: did he set out to become the biggest television star 73 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: in the world. 74 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: So Trump wanted to be famous his entire life. He 75 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: thought he was going to be a film producer before 76 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: he went into his family business because his father obviously 77 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: was a very successful real estate owner and then Trump 78 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: inherited the family business. But he always wanted to be 79 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: part of Hollywood. That's why he was on He did 80 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: cameos on everything from you know, The Nanny, just Sex 81 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: and the City to Home Alone. He was always trying 82 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: to get on camera. And so Mark Burnett and Donald 83 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Trump met in two thousand and three, that's when Survivor 84 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: was shooting at the Ice skating rink in Central Park 85 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: that Trump had renovated. It was woman rink, and believe 86 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: it or not, Rosie O'Donnell was the host of that 87 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: season of Survivor and Donald Trump was there with his 88 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: girlfrien from Milania and they met and Mark Burnett had 89 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: this idea to do another show that was basically like Survivor, 90 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 2: but instead of having it be in the jungle or 91 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: in an island, he wanted to be in the city 92 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: of New York where contestants were competing to see who 93 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: would win. And he needed a business mogul to play 94 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: this boss of the boardroom, and so he approached Trump. 95 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: He went to Trump's office. Trump said yes immediately, didn't 96 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: even talk to his manager, agent, nothing. He was getting 97 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 2: paid twenty five thousand dollars an episode for that first season, 98 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: which I know, that's a lot of money, but for 99 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: reality TV not really, that's not that much money for 100 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, who was allegedly a billionaire at the time. 101 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: And so he ended up being on the show and 102 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 2: using the show to promote all of his businesses, his family, 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 2: his home, his life, and become this legendary figure of 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: you know, he'd gone through you know, ups and downs 105 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: in his own life, and he wasn't that famous. But 106 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: because of The Apprentice, everyone in America that I knew 107 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: Donald Trump and they liked him. They loved that he 108 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: was a tough guy that said you're fired and could 109 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: decide and choose and look and see who is the 110 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 2: strongest contestant in the boardroom. And that was the persona 111 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: that he cultivated and created. And that is the reason 112 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: why he became President of the States. 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: One of the other reasons why he became this reality 114 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: star based on your book, is the fact that Mark 115 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: Burnett allegedly taught Donald Trump how to perform for the camera. 116 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: So talk to me about that, because as reality TV producer, 117 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: one thing I always tell my reality stars is the 118 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: fact that a producer's job is similar to a music 119 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: producer's job when they have an artist that they're working 120 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: with is vocal lessons. Is teaching you how to sing 121 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: the right chords or rap or or whatever the case 122 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: may be. You're teaching this artist how to become the 123 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: greatest singer of all time. So, Mark Burnett, who is 124 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: arguably a legend in the reality community, what did he 125 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: teach Donald Trump in terms of how to perform for 126 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: the cameras. 127 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: So I think that he taught him on camera. Trump 128 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: has very good instincts, so he can be funny, he 129 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 2: can be off the cut. He says things that are 130 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: like totally out of control. But that's really good for 131 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: reality TV, as you know as a reality TV producer. 132 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: So what Mark Burnett did was he took this caricature 133 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: image that Trump has and does and is this character 134 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: that he plays, and kind of found a way to 135 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: fine tune it. And in the boardroom. One of their 136 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: biggest fights, actually the two of them, was that Donald 137 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 2: Trump wants the entire episode of The Apprentice to be 138 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: the boardroom. He wasn't. He didn't care about the contestants, 139 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: care about the tasks. He thought there wasn't enough boardroom. 140 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: So over the years, they translation enough Donald Trump. 141 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: Exactly, They kept fighting over Trump. The boardrooms would become longer. 142 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: He would sometimes film for four hours doing these boardroom 143 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: scenes that on TV would be like, you know, five minutes, 144 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: ten minutes. But he wanted, he loved to be in 145 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: the boardroom because it made him feel powerful. And the 146 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 2: other thing that Mark Burnett really taught Trump was that 147 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: what matters the most is your audience size. And Trump's 148 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: fixation on ratings and his obsession on ratings, that's why 149 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: he was always making up the numbers and saying they 150 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: had more people had his inauguration than Obama did. Was 151 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: because of the show. Because he would wake up every 152 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: day after the Apprentice aired and go and try to 153 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: find the ratings. He would facc the ratings to people 154 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: and he was so excited, and he'd sometimes even make 155 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: up the numbers when they weren't very good. He was 156 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: excited to own the ratings because he learned that the 157 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: only way to get renewed is as you know as 158 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: a producer, is through good ratings. So he was very 159 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: obsessed with the crowd size. He wanted the biggest number possible, 160 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 2: and we saw that when he became president. 161 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: So you said with him, you said a total four times. 162 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: And obviously he loves talking about himself, right, So when 163 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: it comes to reality television, did he talk to you 164 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: about his feelings towards that genre? Television was a love 165 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: hate relationship? Was it all love relationship that he had 166 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: with his genre? Like did he want to be as 167 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: big as Chris Jenner? When it came to like figuring 168 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: out how reality television can work for his business. 169 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: That's a great question. So Donald Trump and I actually 170 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: sat in a wardroom in Trump Tower and we watched 171 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: clips of the show together. And when he saw the 172 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 2: theme song, he said he hadn't heard it for years. 173 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: It made him so that was probably the happiest I 174 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: ever saw him. He really lit up. Remember that money, Money, 175 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: Money theme song that's at the beginning of the show. 176 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: Then he goes, this is a really good show, like 177 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: he was like he was doing himself and then complimenting himself. 178 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: It was a really interesting dynamic, but not surprising. But 179 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: for in terms of the genre Donald Trump is, this 180 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: might also not be that surprising. But he's most interested 181 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: in himself. So I asked him about Kim Kardashian had 182 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: been on the show in one of the seasons to 183 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: promote one of her fragrance lines. Obviously, Chloe Kardashian was 184 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 2: a contestant on The Apprentice. Didn't end well for her, 185 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: and so and Kaylen Jenner is now helping Trump and 186 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 2: campaigning for Trump. So he does have ties to the Kardashians, 187 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: but he's claimed that he'd never seen keeping up with 188 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 2: the Kardashians, but that they had something going on, and 189 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: he understood that that they were using their face somehow 190 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: to get people to watch them. And he had actually 191 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: been offered a show before The Apprentice. It was like 192 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: the Osbornes, where they were going to watch him be 193 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: a dad to his family and his kids, and he 194 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 2: had turned that down because he wasn't interested in playing 195 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: a father figure and he wasn't interested in sort of 196 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: being on camera, even though he loved be on camera 197 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: in that way. He was more interested in doing this 198 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: show because it was a business show and he could 199 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 2: use the money because he made two hundred and thirteen 200 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: million dollars hosting The Apprentice for fourteen seasons. 201 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait waited 202 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: the money in other ways? Wait a second, hold on, 203 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: are you telling me Donald J. Trump made two hundred 204 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: and thirteen million the entire time he was doing all 205 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: his seasons of The Apprentice? 206 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: Yes? And you know why? 207 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: Why? 208 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: So back then reality TV was in its early stages, right, 209 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: so people didn't know really it was. Survivor was on, 210 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: Big Brother was on, the Real World. It was on, 211 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: but they weren't not. Survivor was a huge money making machine, 212 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: but they didn't know the extent to which how reality 213 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: TV would be or how big it would be, and 214 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 2: so when Mark Burnett sold The Apprentice to Jeff Zucker 215 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: at NBC, he said, I will give you the show. 216 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Will do this for a very small salary, 217 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: but what I want in return is all the money 218 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: from any product placement that could be on the show. 219 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: And Jeff Zucker at the time didn't know how much 220 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: revenue they would generate from that, and so Mark Burnett 221 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: made this deal with Trump saying, you would get twenty 222 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars an episode, but we're gonna split whatever 223 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: product placement we make, so big car company would come. 224 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: That's why every episode is like an ad. A big 225 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: car company would come. They'd say, we're going to do 226 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: this big car commercial. The contestants are going to work 227 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: on this car, and then Donald Trump and Mark Burnett 228 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: would split that fifty to fifty. They get five million 229 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 2: dollars just from the car commercial of our Car Challenge, 230 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: and they'd split that fifty to fifty. And I think 231 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 2: a lot of people don't know that's how Donald Trump 232 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: became rich doing The Apprentice. It was through this deal 233 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: that Mark Burnett engineered early on where they split all 234 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 2: the advertising. So anything that's in the show, mattel Levi's jeans, 235 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: the cereal companies that came on, the food companies that 236 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: came on, all that money went directly in Donald Trump's pocket, 237 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: which is why he was always promoting them and seeming 238 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: interested when he would meet these executives and talking about 239 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: how great Donny Deutsche was or how great whoever was, 240 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: because this was leading to him pocketing millions of dollars. 241 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: My mouth is still on the floor, and I know 242 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: I have to talk, so excuse my pregnant pause. Two 243 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: hundred over two hundred million dollars. That's insane. And for 244 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: my listeners, no housewife is making that much money. Ladies, gentlemen, 245 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: and they just so you know, that's a shitload of money. 246 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: But it goes to show you how you really have 247 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: to be a maverick when it comes to sort of 248 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: figuring out how to make reality television work for you. 249 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is somebody who did it. Chris Jenner is 250 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: somebody who did it with her entire family. Bethany Franco 251 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: did it and was one of the first reality stars 252 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: to really use the platform to promote their businesses, because 253 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: you make money with the business. Now, did he ever 254 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: want to Kardashian his family, because we did see Evanka 255 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: become pretty much a co star in the latter seasons, 256 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: and we saw the other brothers make appearances. But listen, 257 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: it's no secret or it doesn't take a rocket scientist 258 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: to know that Evanka is his favorite child. So did 259 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: he ever see this world where he wanted to use 260 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: the genre to really make Trump a synonymous name in 261 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: reality television like the Kardashians for example. 262 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: You know it's funny, I'll answer that question. But Bethany Frinkle, 263 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 2: remember she started out on The Apprentice. She was on 264 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 2: the Martha start. There was a Martha Stuart version. We 265 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: get into all the drama of that in the book 266 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: how Martha Stuart tried to come in and take over 267 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: The Apprentice and Donald Trump was so upset and angry. 268 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: But what he learned from Martha was that Martha brought 269 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: her daughter Alexis on to be one of the judges 270 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: on the show. And so then when Donald saw that, 271 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 2: even though he was very resentful of the Martha version, 272 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: the next season, that's when he really started to push 273 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: to make sure that Avanka would be on as one 274 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: of the judges in the boardroom, and I would argue 275 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 2: that he actually did try to Kardashi in his family. 276 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: Because Avanka started to appear on the show, she was 277 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: wearing high end designer clothes. From there, she started judging 278 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: Project Runway, and then short time after that, we started 279 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: to see Evanka lines of clothing and stores, which you 280 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: know were then taken off the shelves after Trump became 281 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: president because of the backlash. But she started a jewelry line, 282 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: she started her shoes line. I remember my mom would 283 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: always see the Avanca line and Tjmax when she goes shopping. 284 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: So Avanka really became a mogul on her own, and 285 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: I would say that it was the Kardashian effect for 286 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: her because she then became a tastemaker at influence. So 287 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: she had her own clothing line. People knew who she 288 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: No one knew who she was. She was someone who 289 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: had grown up as an EPO baby and was very 290 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: very had a very famous father. But Avanka became famous 291 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: because of The Apprentice because she sat next to her 292 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: father in the boardroom and she would conduct the firings 293 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 2: and he trusted her and he liked her, and she 294 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: was also great on camera. 295 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: They ever talked to you about what was going on 296 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: in terms of his relationships with some of the housewives 297 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: that he had on the show. I mean, Niani Leaks 298 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: appeared on the show, Teresa Judies appeared on the show. 299 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: Did he ever like go into detail them or did 300 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: anybody the producer you speak to talk about the reason 301 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: why they wanted housewives, and particularly to be a part 302 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,479 Speaker 1: of Celebrity Apprentice. 303 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: So the reason they ended up with the Housewives was 304 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: that NBC had The Apprentice, and so seven seasons in 305 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: they realized that they couldn't. The ratings were bad, and 306 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: so they started adding celebrities. So Donald Trump was then 307 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: judging the celebrities, and then the ratings went back up 308 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: and NBC had the Housewives. So it was really good 309 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: corporate synergy for them to then have the Housewives come on. 310 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: So there's information about Ninnie Leaks in this book. She 311 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: was There was one day that she swarmed off and 312 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: Donald Trump had to go into the sidewalk and convince 313 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: her to come back into the boardroom. We also talked 314 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: about a very famous boardroom in season fourteen UH where 315 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: Kenya Moore and vivid a Fox. Do you remember this? 316 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course is injected in my vein is my 317 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: blood type? 318 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: Yes, we're fighting, and Heroldo was sitting in between them, 319 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: and Donald Trump was so excited when I brought up 320 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: that boardroom. He talked about how people still talk about 321 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 2: it to him and bring it up to him, and 322 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: Eric said, it was very dark when they went through 323 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: Kenya's phone and realized that she was tweeting from vivid 324 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: a Fox's phone. It was just a very dark moment. 325 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: But what was so interesting was that when he told 326 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: that story, he was watching the clip and he saw 327 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: that Heraldo was very quiet because he was between the 328 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: two women and they were fighting, and Roaldo kind of 329 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: slid by. Donald Trump then tells me a story about 330 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: why he and Miroaldo had a falling out, and while 331 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: he was telling that story, he accidentally admitted Donald Trump 332 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: for the first time to journalists that he lost selection 333 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. 334 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: So wait, wait, wait, that's breaking news. 335 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: It is breaking news. You have to read the book 336 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: to get the full story. But I'm giving you the 337 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: I'm giving you some here, the cliff notes version. He said, 338 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: when I lost selection, Heralda called me and then catches 339 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 2: himself and realizes what he said. So I actually think 340 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: that Donald Trump knows that he lost election, but he's 341 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: playing a reality character and he knows how much attention 342 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: he gets for denying that he lost selection. So this 343 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 2: is like really really high level performance art that we're 344 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: dealing with. Because Donald Trump is a reality star, and 345 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: I think that's really important for people to remember when 346 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: you look at politics and what he's doing. He's a 347 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: reality star. He's a very good reality star, and we're 348 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 2: now all living in his reality. 349 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: I am so fascinated by this because the thing I 350 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: always to try to tell my audience about reality stars 351 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: is the fact that they're not normal, and that's not 352 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: a dig there's nothing negative about that. They're not normal 353 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: in the sense of how they operate. They have a 354 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: high self esteem, of confidence. Some have this delusion of grander. 355 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: It's if you want to be the biggest reality star 356 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: in the world, you have to have bigahnahs, you have 357 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: to have to have grit, and you have to have 358 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: this sense of high self esteem and not really understand 359 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: the real world. Because when I deal with some reality stars, 360 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: the stuff that they talk about, I'm like, that's not 361 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: happening at all, Like you made this up in your mind. 362 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 3: You convinced yourself that we are against you, or that 363 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 3: somebody's against you, and that's not the quote unquote reality 364 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 3: of this situation, as you were fortunate enough to have 365 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: these many sit downs with him. 366 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: Is it a character trait that he just has to 367 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: where like most reality stars, he truly does believe his 368 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: own hype or does he know like I'm playing a character, 369 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: which we call the real life special is when the 370 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: real light comes on the camera and you just all 371 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: of a sudden become like this person, and then when 372 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: the camera's off, you're back to normal. Which one would 373 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: you say he is? Or is he a little bit 374 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: of both? 375 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 2: I think what happened was the red light turned on 376 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: and the Red Light Special never went away. So I 377 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: think the character he played on TV then started to 378 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 2: become his own personality. And that was actually an analogy. 379 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: One of the contestants from season one, his name was Sam, 380 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: told me it's kind of like when he thought he 381 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 2: was playing a character and then he became that character. 382 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: Another executive NBC also compared it to Austin Butler when 383 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: he was Elvis. You know how he was like mumbling 384 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: on his press tour and we couldn't tell what was 385 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: going on because he was like talking like Elvis even 386 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: though he was a real person and he was trying 387 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: to be Austin Butler. That's what Donald Trump I think 388 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: is like he played this character on The Apprentice for 389 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: fourteen seasons. He got so much positive affirmation, so much money, 390 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: so much encouragement, so much love from the American public, 391 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 2: that that then became part of his personality. Because when 392 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 2: I sat down with him, it's not like he was 393 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: different than he is on TV. He's actually very similar 394 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: than he is on TV. He's funny, he says things 395 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 2: that sometimes don't make sense that you know, tangents. But 396 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: he is a reality star, and he does drink his 397 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 2: own kool aid, and he does believe he's the very best, 398 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 2: and he does believe he deserves anything. And he does 399 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: I believe he should run again. He believes in himself. 400 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 2: He has that confidence that a reality star has. And 401 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: we're all along again. We're all along for this ride. 402 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why I call this book 403 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: Apprentice in Wonderland. It's like Alice in Wonderland, Right, we 404 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: all went down the rabbit hole with him. But we 405 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: can't wake up, we can't go back to regular life 406 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 2: because reality TV is now taken over the White House. 407 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: Fascinating. I'm beyond fascinated by this. Speaking of fascination, I'm 408 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: a Rosa Manigault, Okay, I mean when The Apprentice first debut, 409 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: I was maybe a sophomore in college, I believe, and 410 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: in my journalism class, we were all just given like 411 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: topics right about and I'm like, I'm going to talk 412 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: about like I'm a Rosa Madigal at the Apprentice. So 413 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: my headline was, you know, the angry Black Woman. 414 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: And at the time, yes. 415 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, please please feel free. No, it 416 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: was this. It was the first time we kind of 417 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: heard this sort of acron was called ABW is still 418 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: for angry Black Women, and Amorrosa was like the face 419 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: of it. And it was when television, whether it was 420 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: scripted or unscripted, was kind of going down this path 421 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: of showing black women, you know, being very assertive and 422 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, you know, talking loud or whatever the journalists 423 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: and the media we're saying out the time. So long 424 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: story short, I've always been fascinated by her she then 425 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: became an employee at the White House. So when it 426 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: came from when it came to Amrosa, what was the 427 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: decision making not only casting her and keeping her on 428 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: the Apprentice to make appearances that ultimately led to her 429 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: having a position in the White House. 430 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: I think that's the perfect example of the thesis of 431 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 2: this book, which is that reality TV came crashing into 432 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: the real world, and we can't now take that back, 433 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 2: because you're right, Amrosa was a character and she was 434 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: the villain. And it was also very controversial because she 435 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 2: was the only black woman on the first season and 436 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: she was being portrayed as a villain, and it was 437 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 2: a stereotype and a lot of people at the time, 438 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: I remember this was before social media, but found it 439 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: very offensive that Amrosa was saying one thing to her 440 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: contestant and then trying to undermine them. She wasn't a 441 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 2: team player, she was creating drama for the sake of drama. 442 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: She wasn't being honest. And remember when she was in 443 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 2: that construction site and a piece of construction, Eric Trump 444 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: talked to me about this actually Donald Trump's, so it 445 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: fell on her shoulder, and then she claimed that she 446 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: had a concussion and she couldn't work, and she sat 447 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: down and she couldn't. So the book goes through the 448 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: evolution of Amrosa, and I talked to Donald Trump about 449 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: arm Morosa, and so in season one, the first time 450 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 2: she was on the show, what happened was that she 451 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: was that character. She was who she was undermining people 452 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: and kind of backstabbing people. And because she became so popular, 453 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: they brought her back with two seasons of Celebrity Apprentice, 454 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: even though she wasn't really celebrity, but maybe she was 455 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: because she's Amors and everyone knows who she is. And 456 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: Donald Trump really loved her, loved the ratings, loved the drama, 457 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: loved that there was no way that her spotlight would 458 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: be bigger than his because he was more famous than 459 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: she was, and that she relied on him for her fame. 460 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: And then he brings her into the White House, and 461 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 2: he tells me in the book that a lot of 462 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 2: people warned him against it and he didn't think it 463 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: would end well, but he still brought her in because 464 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: he's conditioned to think about ratings, right, and Amrosa always 465 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: brings ratings, and by bringing in he throws people. He 466 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: gets a lot of press. People are confused, they're interested, 467 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 2: like that's the way Donald Trump operates. And then when 468 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 2: it goes badly and she secretly tapes records him and 469 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 2: writes her tell all book, he feels he genuinely feels 470 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: very betrayed by her. He claimed to me that he 471 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 2: didn't see her much in the White House, although we 472 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 2: know from her book that they did see each other 473 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: quite a bit and that she couldn't cut the mustard 474 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: in the White House. And if you read the book 475 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: in full, you'll see his descriptions of her and their feud. 476 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: But Donald Trump really thrives on feuds. He loves feuds, 477 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: and am Rossa was a phenomenon in his life and 478 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: a huge star as a results of The Apprentice. 479 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: Okay, so one of his decision making calls, you're you're. 480 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: At You're at a loss for words. 481 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, this is this is I mean, listen, 482 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: me and my listeners are like gagging at the same time. 483 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: But that's how we are. No, I'm shocked, although I 484 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: shouldn't be, but whatever, I am. 485 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: But it's shock. It's shocking. It's shocking that the reality 486 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 2: TV that we All Love and Watch has now infiltrated 487 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: the White House and there's no way to pull it back. 488 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: And a lot of journalists and people that interact with Trump, 489 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 2: probably unlike your listeners, aren't so well versed in reality TV, 490 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: so they're not looking at Donald Trump like a reality star. 491 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: That's one of the arguments of this book, and it 492 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: is a page turner. It is really juicy. But when 493 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: you get to the end, there's a huge scene at 494 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 2: the end where I go to mar A Lago and 495 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 2: I really we really realize and see how the reality 496 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: star of Donald Trump is lined up with who he's 497 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 2: trying to be as a politician and this illusion that 498 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: we have and this mirage that he's created, and really 499 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: the repercussions of reality TV in our culture. 500 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: One thing I know, being a reality producer, that I 501 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: get flag for is like, is it real? Is it scripted? 502 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: Did you guys like make the sub Are they fighting 503 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: for no reason? All those things? And when you look 504 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: at the political climate right now, right it's like nothing 505 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: I've ever seen before in my lifetime. And my jaw 506 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: is constantly dropping when it comes to just how listen, 507 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: A lot of people, whether they're senators whatever role they play, 508 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, in the White House or even in DC. 509 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: A lot of people are becoming famous based on the 510 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: arguments that are happening in Congress, you know, based on 511 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: us giving you know, getting access to kind of seeing 512 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: how some of these situations are current, whether it's trying 513 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: to pass the bill or whatever discussions that are happening, 514 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: you know, in DC, and we're seeing like people cuss 515 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: each other out. We're seeing people damn there coming to blows, 516 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, fighting. We saw obviously what happened on January sixth, 517 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: you know that the insurrectionists. You make a really good point, 518 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: and I wonder if Donald Trump realizes that he and 519 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: I'll say this, Donald Trump to me single handedly turned Washington, 520 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: d C. On its head and the White House and 521 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: everything we were taught growing up studying a government or 522 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, judge things about the United States of America 523 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: that he single handily flipped it and turned this into 524 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: things that we will watch or reality TV, Like, does 525 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: you take any ownership in what DC and the White 526 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: House has become. 527 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 2: The only ownership he takes is pride that he was 528 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: able to come in as an outsider and shake things up. 529 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: But you also know, for every reality TV star, especially 530 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 2: the ones that behave badly, they're not going to ever say, oh, well, 531 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 2: I admit I shouldn't have done that. They don't apologize, 532 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: they don't admit defeat, they don't admit fault. And these 533 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: are all qualities in Donald Trump. But he again has 534 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: always been rewarded for being a great reality star, so 535 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: he has no incentive to say, you know what, I 536 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 2: take ownership for the fact that I've done this or 537 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: this or now GC's a mess. He's claiming he quote 538 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: drains the swamp. He's claiming he's an outsider that's going 539 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: to fix things and build a wall. He's claiming all 540 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: these certain things. But again, it's the training in reality 541 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: TV that has led him this way. And the only 542 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: way in which I think we can really understand what 543 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: happened is by going back and studying the Apprentice and 544 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: unpacking what we as an American country and as a 545 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 2: society have contributed to this and understanding what's happening. Because 546 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 2: the media right now, the way they're covering him, they're 547 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: acting again like he's a traditional candidate, and he's not. 548 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 2: He's our first reality TV president, and we have to 549 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: educate ourselves on what exactly is happening here. 550 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: Do you think he'll win again and this later this year? 551 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: I think that based on all the time I spent 552 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: with him, and based on understanding the way he uses 553 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 2: the cameras and the media and attention and the spotlight. 554 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: Although there are a lot of people that don't like 555 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 2: him and are mad at him, and he's now a fellon, 556 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: I do think he has a very good chance of winning, guess. 557 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: And a lot of it has to do with the 558 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: fact that he knows how to use the power of 559 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: the media for his benefit. 560 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: He understands the value of cameras following him everywhere, and 561 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: by following him more than anyone else, he ends up 562 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 2: being the winner by default. Right, So we're only talking 563 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: about him. So when November comes around, although there's so 564 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: much baggage and problems and legal issues, if you've only 565 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: paid attention to Donald Trump, he's making the calculation that 566 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: people are gonna en up voting for him. He's turned 567 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: the presidency into a sense a popularity contest, and he's 568 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 2: just trying to get the most amount of attention. 569 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, I want to move into his uncensort thoughts 570 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: about the celebrities he's been in contact with, whether it's 571 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: been on The Apprentice or justin life. Can you give 572 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: us some tea? And yes, guys, please buy. The book 573 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: is out in stores now. Apprentice in Wonderland. Okay, So 574 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some names I want you 575 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: doesn't give it a little tidbit about his fossil them, 576 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift. 577 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: Taylor Swift was interesting because this was in mar A 578 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 2: Lago and I asked him this Taylor was on her 579 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 2: Aeros tours. She's still on her Aras tour. What he 580 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: thinks of Taylor and Taylor had come out in twenty 581 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: twenty and actually says she was a Democrat because in 582 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen we didn't know. And it was very interesting 583 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: because Donald Trump loves picking fights with celebrities. He loves 584 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: going ahead to head with celebrities. But even he knows 585 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: that the Swifties are very loyal and Taylor Swift is very, 586 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: very famous. So he describes her to me in very 587 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: hedged language. He holds back and rather than talk anything 588 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: about her, say anything negative, he calls her beautiful, very beautiful, 589 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: unconventionally beautiful, and used the word beautiful five times in 590 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: describing Taylor Swift. Then he asked He said he knew 591 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: that she probably doesn't like Trump and then asked me 592 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: how as a country star that was possible. And I 593 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: had to then explain to the former president. I states 594 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 2: that Taylor Swift is no longer a country star. She 595 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 2: makes pop music. And he was, you know, kind of 596 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: a little confused about that, claimed that he didn't listen 597 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: to her music, and then asked me how Garth Brooks 598 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: doesn't support him, because Garth Brooks is a country star, 599 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: so obviously Hollywood is very important to him and famous 600 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: people are very important to him. But he held back 601 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,479 Speaker 2: on Taylor and just commented on her beauty. And as 602 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: a result of that, the Swifties have now come out 603 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: in full force and they do not like this at all. Wait. 604 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: Wait, the Swifties don't like any of this. 605 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 3: No. 606 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 2: They trended on Twitter when this part came out. They said, 607 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: stay away from her. Ah, Donald Trump commenting on Taylor 608 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: Swift's beauty. They do not like that. Even the nice 609 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: thing he said about her did not sit well with them. 610 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: No, I'm laughing because I'm like he tried his best 611 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: not to have the swifties attack him, and they're doing 612 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: it anyway because you're calling her beautiful, So that to 613 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: me is super funny. He's afraid of the swift day. 614 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: You're gonna have to read the way and describe it. 615 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: He does it in a weird way because he keeps 616 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: repeating it over and over again. So I think to 617 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: him as a compliment, but I think to other people 618 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 2: that read it, it did read a little creepy. 619 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: Chloe Kardashian. 620 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 2: So, Chloe Kardashian was on The Celebrity Apprentice. This was 621 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: in the early seasons of the Kardashians and she hadn't 622 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: blown up, and at the time, Donald Trump was very 623 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 2: upset that Kim wasn't the contestant, that they only got Chloe, 624 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 2: and Kim was on Dancing with the Stars. So there 625 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: was a Huffington Post article about Chloe being fired from 626 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 2: the show because Donald Trump thought quote that she was 627 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: overweight at the time. And so when I mentioned Chloe 628 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 2: and we watched a clip of Chloe, he told me 629 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 2: that he had seen her recently and she looked quote 630 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: so much better, and that she couldn't cut it on 631 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: The Apprentice because she wasn't tough enough. But there are 632 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: producers who talked about the Hoppington post and me and 633 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 2: said that she was He was very misogynistic toward her 634 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: and made comments about her weight behind her back. So 635 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: it was a very ugly chapter in her life. And 636 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: Chloe has come out and said how she really didn't 637 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: enjoy being on the show. 638 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: Yikes, yikes, yikes. Okay, I got two more for you. 639 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman. 640 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 2: Donald Trump loves Dennis Rodman. He was on The Celebrity 641 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: Apprentice twice. He said that Dennis Rodman was cool. He 642 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: dated Madonna back in the day, which Sean Trump really liked. Again, 643 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: it's connection to celebrity, and he actually said, believe it 644 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: or not that when he was thinking about talking to 645 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: Kim Jong un of North Korea, the dictator of North Korea, 646 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: he thought about calling Dennis Rodman and asking him for 647 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: advice because he felt like Dennis Rodman knew more than 648 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,479 Speaker 2: the White House advisors who were there to help him 649 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 2: about international relations. And when Donald Trump sat down with 650 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 2: Kim Jong Un, he brought up Dennis Rodman and their 651 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 2: association and mutual friendship with Dennis Rodman. So he talked 652 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 2: to the North Korean dictator about Dennis Rodman being on 653 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: Celebrity Apprentice, but he is a huge fan of Dennis 654 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: Rodman's and he said he got Donald Trump got black 655 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 2: because Dennis Rodman was drunk in the first time around, 656 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: and Donald Trump just wouldn't fire him because he was 657 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 2: so good for the cameras. And he finally got fired. 658 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: Do you remember why he got fired? Because there was 659 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: a project where they had to do something for Malania's 660 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: beauty line and they sell Milania's name wrong and Dennis 661 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: Rodman didn't catch statt and so Milania was very offended. 662 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: And Donald Trump and I watched that clip and he 663 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: really lit up that Milania was because there's so much 664 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: speculation about what's going on Donald and Malania, but he 665 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: lit up that Malania was funny on the show, and 666 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 2: he really liked that his wife had a chance to 667 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 2: be funny on the show. 668 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: Oh jees, this is so juicy. Okay, one more Debra 669 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: met saying, which we all love, will and Grace. What 670 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: did he say about my grace? 671 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 2: Okay, So this is going to be a huge surprise 672 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 2: to your listeners. But Donald Trump and Debra Messing have 673 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 2: been fighting and feuding for years because she's obviously very 674 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: liberal and was very very she went after him on 675 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 2: social media when he became president, understandably so for his policies. 676 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 2: So back in the day, the Apprentice of Will and 677 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 2: Grace were on the same night, and Donald Trump told 678 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 2: me that they were at an NBC event and Deborah 679 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: Messing came up to him and was very complimentary and 680 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 2: very flattering, very thankful that the Apprentice was helping the network, 681 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 2: and he admitted to me that he found her to 682 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: be very, very attractive and beautiful, and he almost seemed 683 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: hurt that Deborah Messing, who he seemed to have a 684 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,919 Speaker 2: crush on and talking about her and language that sort 685 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 2: of suggested that he had a crush on her, no 686 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 2: longer liked him. And it almost was like again a 687 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 2: scene out of a reality TV show where Donald Trump 688 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: liked Deborah Messing, Deva Messing stopped liking Donald Trump, so 689 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: and now Donald Trump doesn't like Debora Messing and they 690 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 2: had in this messy, messy feud. But there's an entire 691 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: section of this book about Will and Grace because Donald 692 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: Trump also saying at the Emmys with Megan Malally and 693 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 2: he talks about why he's sang Green Acres at the 694 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 2: Emmys with Megan Malually and what prompted him to do 695 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: that live on television. 696 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Every story just gets better and better and better. And 697 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: one thing you talked about earlier was policy, and I 698 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: do hear some of his policies as president he got 699 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: from doing celebrity princes or just the princess in general. 700 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 2: In terms of well, you know, inviting the kash Kim 701 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: Kardashian into the White House. That's a total reality star move. 702 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 2: Going to Dennis Rodman when talking about, you know, North Korea, 703 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: when he signed a Farmersville and he couldn't really remember 704 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 2: what the farmer's bill was, but he posted at the 705 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 2: time a clip of himself singing at the Emmys. Everything 706 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: he does always traces back to show business. So he 707 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 2: governs the country as a reality star, and I think 708 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 2: that's really important for people to understand. He makes his 709 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: decisions based on what was successful when he was on 710 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 2: the Apprentice, and that's what he knows, and that's the 711 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 2: world he knows. So if you go back and you 712 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 2: look at what he's effective at, or what he tried 713 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 2: to do, or why he was able to not really 714 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 2: do anything during COVID. It's because there are limits to 715 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 2: start them right, There's only so much to do as 716 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 2: an influencer, as a reality star, and when it actually 717 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: you have to actually move the needle and make tough decisions. 718 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 2: It's a little harder in the real world than it 719 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 2: is on TV. 720 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: Did you get a sense from him that he loves 721 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: politics or he just sees this as like a gig. 722 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,760 Speaker 2: He seemed so much happier when talking about The Apprentice 723 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 2: than when talking about Washington, DC. Because when he was 724 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 2: on The Apprentice, he was a character that people liked, 725 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 2: and as president, he's not a character that people like. 726 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: So that's the thing. And again to bring it back 727 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 1: to reality stars. So I always tell people reality stars 728 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: are the most sensitive group of people in the world 729 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 1: because they're being judged for, you know, oftentimes being their 730 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 1: authentic selves. And all reality stars, at least in the beginning, 731 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: they're obsessed with the comments on social media. They have 732 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: this need to be liked by everybody. I always got 733 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: this sense that when he became president. Yes, he has 734 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: his base, you know, he has his fans, and he 735 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: has people who clearly are obsessed with him. But I 736 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: always felt that he did not enjoy Hollywood, the one 737 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: industry to me that he seemed to be happy to 738 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: thrive in that they shun him, and to me, I 739 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: feel like he still is upset about that. 740 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 2: He's very upset about that. You'll see that in the book. 741 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: He's obsessed with Hollywood. He told me he spent a 742 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 2: lot of time talking about Hollywood, the people that betrayed him, 743 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 2: the people that he used to invite over his house 744 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 2: that no longer want to talk to him. He claimed 745 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 2: that he's winning the vote secretly. Guess where. Not in 746 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 2: Ohio and Florida, not in any of the swing states. 747 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 2: He told me he's secretly winning the vote in Beverly Hills. 748 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 2: Why Beverly Hills. Not just the housewives, but a lot 749 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 2: of celebrities live there, And so he wanted me to 750 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 2: know that secretly, in Beverly Hills people support him. He's 751 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 2: also very upset still after all these years, that he 752 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 2: never won an Emmy for The Apprentice. But that's a 753 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 2: whole other story. 754 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: And ah, I mean, look, at the end of the day, 755 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: the Apprincess was legendary. It was an iconic show. I 756 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: am shocked and did not win an Emmy. Speaking of 757 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: which two more questions. Did you speak to Mark Burnett 758 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: at all? 759 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 2: Mark Burnett and I communicated for this book. He did 760 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 2: not want to do an official on the record interview. 761 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 2: But he is in this book and you will see 762 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: how he's in this book when you read the book. 763 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 2: But his presence is certainly in the book throughout the book. 764 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: Oh, he's so legendary. I just he was. 765 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 2: One of the stories that was interesting was that he 766 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 2: really really really hates the contestants when they came into 767 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 2: audition for the show. So there was a Contestancias and won. 768 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: Her name was Heidi. She was a fan favorite. She 769 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 2: told me when she walked in. The first thing he 770 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 2: said to her was, Oh, that purse that you have 771 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 2: is a fake perse She was carrying a Gucci at 772 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 2: the time, and he did that to really try to 773 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 2: rile her up to see what kind of reality star 774 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 2: she would be. But there's a lot if you love 775 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 2: reality TV, there's also a lot in this book where 776 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 2: it deconstructs the process in which they found the contestants, 777 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 2: what it was like behind the scenes, because he's again 778 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 2: this was in the early days of reality TV. How 779 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 2: Mark Burnett pulled all the levers they had. They were 780 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 2: all once they were vote off the show. They all 781 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 2: lived together in a hotel, but they gave up their phones, 782 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 2: they gave it their wallets, They had no contact with 783 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 2: the outside world. They really controlled these contestants to try 784 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 2: to make sure that they weren't influencing what was happening. 785 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 2: And Donald Trump, weirdly enough, hung out with them when 786 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 2: the cameras weren't rolling. So with other reality hosts, they 787 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 2: really don't want to be near the contestants when the 788 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,320 Speaker 2: show's over. But Donald Trump really liked them. But we 789 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 2: go into the whole process and we see how Mark 790 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 2: Burnett was the ultimate puppet master and really controlling everyone. 791 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: Mmmmmmmmmmm. Okay, So last question for you. This is Juicy one, okay, 792 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: and the book Trump shares his biggest regret in show business. 793 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 2: His biggest regret in show business. He claims that Jeff 794 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 2: Zucker got his job in CNN because Donald Trump helped 795 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 2: him and gave him a recommendation with an influential executive 796 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 2: at CNN. And so Donald Trump thought that by helping 797 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: Jeff Zucker go to CNN, he would always get really 798 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 2: nice coverage from CNN. And then they had a huge 799 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 2: crazy falling out. But wait, can I tell you one 800 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 2: more thing, one more story, one more story. 801 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: By all means yes. 802 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: So the funniest story that he told me, And it 803 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: wasn't intentionally trying to be funny, but he had. The 804 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 2: entire family has a tremendous affection for John Rivers. She 805 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 2: won the second season of Celebrity Apprentice. She was, you know, 806 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 2: her care was in a tough place, and then she 807 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 2: came back because of the show and ended up doing 808 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: more on e and was in one of the Iron 809 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 2: Man movies, iron Man three, I think, And so being 810 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 2: on the Celebrity Apprentice really helped Joan and she credited 811 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 2: Donald Trump with a lot of that. And so Donald 812 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 2: Trump told me, he said that Joan really, you know, 813 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 2: respected her, respected him. Joan really respected Donald Trump and 814 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 2: really admired him. And he said, I know for a 815 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 2: fact that Joan Rivers voted for me in twenty sixteen. 816 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: The only problem with that was that Joan Rivers wasn't alive. 817 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 2: But again, he's a reality star. He knows the good 818 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 2: sound lights to say they're not true. But that's a 819 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 2: great confessional watch on a reality show. And then the 820 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 2: producer would have to cut to like someone else saying, actually, 821 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 2: mister President, he's no longer with it, she was no 822 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 2: longer with us. 823 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: Oh my god, and everyone you have it there. I mean, listen, 824 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: this book is so juicy. I literally want to nestle 825 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 1: up in my bed, like like I did with The 826 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: Ladies Who Punched. By the way, I like read that 827 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: over three day weekend. I was like flying and I'm 828 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: like on the plane, I had a long flight. I'm like, 829 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: I was so into it because you're such a genius 830 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: at making us the reader feel like we're in the 831 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,720 Speaker 1: room having these conversations that you're having with these people, 832 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: and the access that you're able to get is just splendid. 833 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: It's I mean, job well done on this. And I listen, 834 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: I smell another best seller from you with this one, 835 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: my friend. It's thank you so much. 836 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 2: Let me know when you read it. And I think 837 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 2: you can just read it on a beach over the 838 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 2: holiday weekend or if you're going on a trip somewhere, 839 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 2: like it's a fast read and I can't wait to 840 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: hear what you think. 841 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: No, I certainly will, certainly will so again. Rain Drops 842 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: Apprentice in Wonderland is out in stores. Now is out 843 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: in bookstores and they can get this like online, where 844 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: can everyone get this? 845 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 2: Amazon? You can get a Kindle version, you can get 846 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 2: an audiobook version. It's wherever books are sold, Bars and Noble. 847 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 2: It's a widely released book and you can get it 848 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 2: wherever books are sold. 849 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for hopping on Reality with the 850 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: King has been an honor and a pleasure to meet you. Finally, 851 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm a huge fan of your work 852 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: and I know I'm going to be a huge fan 853 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: of this book too. Thank you for listening to Reality 854 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: with the King. New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Share, comment, follow, 855 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: and subscribe to Reality with the King wherever you get 856 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: your podcast, visit Reality Withtheking dot com and be sure 857 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, 858 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: and yes Baby, my YouTube channel where you could get 859 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: all of my visuals, baby, my expressions. Yet, don't forget 860 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: tweet me your thoughts and hot takes about this episode 861 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: using the hashtag Reality with the King. Reality with the 862 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 1: King is a production of Kingdom Ragin Entertainment. It is 863 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: produced by Sierra Spragley Rix an executive produced by me 864 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: Carlos King Kingdom Reign Entertainment, Baby