WEBVTT - From the Vault: Surfing Neanderthals 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:07.480 Hey, are you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind? 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.360 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.320 it's Saturday. Time to go into the vault for a 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.280 classic episode of the show. This one was originally called 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:20.320 Surfing Neander Tolls and it published on August nineteen. So 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:26.479 grab a board, the surf is up. Welcome to Stuff 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.480 to Blow Your Mind, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:37.160 How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.240 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.400 And before we turn the mics on, or actually after 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.479 we turned the mics on, but before we officially started 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.760 the episode, we were just talking about is there a 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.680 better eighties action movie than Point Break? Um? I mean, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.720 arguably there there are some, definitely some action pictures that 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.280 I love more than Point Break, But Point Break has 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.840 a purity to it, you know, this like this, this 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:06.160 the weird nobility of this band of nomadic surfers who 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.360 are also bank robbers and uh and then the man 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.480 who is pursuing them, a man who must become a 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.280 surfer in order to catch surfers. Because isn't that it 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.360 that the old saying in order to catch a surfer, 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.959 you must become a surfer. Uh, something like that. Patrick 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.920 Swayze is the key to the movie. Oh and hey, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.640 by the way, if you're out there, some kind of 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.360 pedants saying wait a minute point break didn't come out 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.160 in the nineteen eighties. How are you saying it's the 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.399 best eighties action movie? As we all know, Sinna in 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.959 the cinema world, the nineteen eighties lasted until Okay, yeah, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.039 I think that's a solid argument. But yeah, this was. 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.440 This was some some really great sways in this film, 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.560 Like Swayzy just has such such a unique charisma that 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.480 he's it's it's like with the Rhodhouse. You know, he's 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.440 he's able to be just so serious in this role 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.040 and it's and you're you're laughing because it is ridiculous, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.040 but at the same time you're totally buying into this presentation. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.680 He's giving you absolutely the the deep seriousness and the 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.640 delivery of the lines like pain don't hurt, the fact 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.400 that he is is trying to commit to this character 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:18.400 who's like a philosopher bouncer. Yeah, in Roadhouse, but now, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:20.600 I mean, essentially, I think he's playing the same character 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.799 in Point Break, and that in Roadhouse he's a philosopher bouncer. 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.280 In Point Break, he's the same character. He's now become 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:31.440 a philosopher surfer slash bank robber. Yeah, and and he's 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.000 he's tremendous. He just like he eats that they've seen 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.320 he's in point Point Break is a great example of 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.880 one of these eighties again, but it was the eighties. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.799 Eighties action movies that is so silly in a way 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.000 that like, there are still action movies that have a 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.919 great spirit of silliness that aren't like these unpleasant, self 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.800 serious action movies. Uh well, you know, a good example 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.000 is like the later movies in the Fast and the 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.680 Furious franchise, which can be a lot of fun, but 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.320 they are they're in the joke like the rock is 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.600 winking at the camera. It's you know, it's played explicitly 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.640 for a kind of like wet laughter that like cars 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.959 can fly and all this, But that's not what's going 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.200 on in Point Break, Point Break, and and some of 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.640 the movies like it are just as silly as the 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.000 later Fast and the Furious movies, but they're not they're 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.400 not winking at you. They're not in on the joke. Instead, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.160 they've got Patrick Swayzy, who's taken himself real seriously. I 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.359 wonder if part of that is that a film like 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:31.040 Point Break like building on the in a sense, even 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.160 though it's an eighties and so technically nineties film, it's 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.880 building on like the grittier uh, like a film heritage 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.280 of the nineteen seventies that preceded it, and where whereas 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.640 nineties films are are proceeding from the eighties films, uh 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.800 and so forth to where there's just like the initial 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:51.600 groundwork underneath something like The Fast and the Furious, it's 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:54.640 just that much sillier and that that and just further 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.400 removed from like nineteen seventies cinema. Wait a minute, why 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.720 are we talking about Point Break? Oh? Yeah, we're talking 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.400 about it because this episode is about surfing the inder Tals. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.680 I mean, it's also not about surfing Neandertals, but it 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:12.040 is about Neanderthals. It's about surfer's ear and uh, surfing 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.480 the Andertals, the working title of Point Break that was 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.640 on the script. It It is exactly where my mind 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.839 went when I first read a very recent scientific paper 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.479 that came out about the under tolls and surfers here. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.080 But but before we get into all that, um and 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.719 we may come back two point break. As we proceed again, 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.760 I want to be clear that this episode is not 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.000 really about surfing. It doesn't have that much to do 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.680 with surfing. But I do want to point out the 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.800 ancient origins of this aquatic practice we call surfing. What 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.159 surfing wasn't invented in the nineteen sixties, No, no, no. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.039 And I was looking at a couple of sources on this, 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.160 but but one of the better ones that came across 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.919 um it was a book by Ben R. Finney and 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.880 James D. Houston called Surfing, A History of the Ancient 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.640 Hawaiian Sport and U pretty inscifle. They point out that 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.600 that all you need really to surf is a surfer 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.599 and a board and of course waves um or something 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:10.440 standing in for a board, such as a canoe, or 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.960 even the surfer's own body. I mean, you can body surf. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.800 What You don't need a surfballa you don't need a 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.360 surf suit. Well, as we'll discuss, it can be very helpful, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.560 especially in the colder waters. But you know, it's just 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.400 it's ultimately and I don't know. Have you ever surfed, Joe, 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:32.560 have you ever? No, I've I mean very limited water experience. 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.680 I've done like knee boarding, and that's I know, that's 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.800 not surfing. I'd say that's the closest to that. You've 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.960 You've gotten up on your knees on a surfboard, well, 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:42.720 not on a surfboard, on a knee board. I don't 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.640 know how different they are. I've gotten up on my 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.680 knees on a floating thing that was being towed behind 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:52.200 a boat. Okay, well a little. It's not close, but 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.320 but it's it's enough. We can we can build from here. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.039 So I I am not a surfer, but I on 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.159 a trip to Whoa I, um, you know, like like 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.240 twenty years ago or something. Um, I was encouraged by 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.720 a friend to go out and try it. This friend 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.200 had surfed before. This is very helpful I find. If 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.480 you were going to try to surf, uh, certainly go 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.839 with someone who has at least done it once before, 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.160 but preverably somebody who who is more skilled than that. 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.839 But there is this kind of magical moment where you're 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.760 you're pushing the board, you're you're you're paddling and kicking. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.840 You're just going as hard and as fast as you can. Uh, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.040 and then it comes this this almost magical moment where 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.880 the wave catches the board and suddenly the waves propelling 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:36.599 the board. And this is the point where then you 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.159 can climb up on onto your knees on the board. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.520 And then and once you you know, have your figure 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.440 out what you're doing, this is where you can rise 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.039 up on both of your feet on the board and 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:50.600 you can ride the surfboard like a surfer rides a surfboard. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.440 And it sounds hard. I mean, it's it's it's one 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.320 of those things where I definitely would have given up 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.760 had I not been encouraged to keep doing it, you know, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.040 to just keep doing it again once more. Let's go, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.120 let's paddle back, and then paddle as hard and fast 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.280 as you can to try and catch this magical moment 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.400 when the when the board catches you. Um. Yeah, and 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.240 so like once so, all you need is aboard the 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.960 waves yourself and then, like the patients and or courage 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.120 to to reach that point where you can rise up 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.200 on the board and become comfortable enough doing so that 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.400 you can manipulate the bird board further. Okay, so surfing 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.440 was not invented by the beach boys in the mid 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.120 twentieth century. Where does surfing actually come from? Well, as 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.360 the authors at this point out how Hawaii is of 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.480 course strongly associated with surfing, and humans seem to have 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.040 first arrived at these far flung Polynesian islands by between 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.600 three hundred and four hundred CE. Now, long boards would 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.640 have developed over time, and the author's guess that Hawaiian 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.960 surfing is ultimately perhaps a thousand years old, Yet the 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.600 principles involved would have been known to Pacific islanders and 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.720 the first pioneers to enter the Pacific as far back 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.240 as two thousand b C. So, um, you know, it's 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.960 one of those again, it's one of those things where 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.840 the necessary technology uh, and and and ability. You know. 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.760 It's not something that where it did not exist before 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.400 thousand years ago, you know, conceivably uh, you know, these 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:20.880 more ancient cultures knew of the properties involved. So we 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.600 don't know for sure how far back it could go, right, 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.360 And there's also some debate whether a form of stand 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.280 up paddle boarding practiced by the pre Incan civilization in 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.000 Peru would have constituted surfing. Some two thousand years ago. 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.520 Of course, that's another thing you get into, you know, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.439 discussions of the terminology. Is it truly surfing, is it's 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.320 something else? Are are the people on these paddle boards 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.720 ever reaching that point where the you know, the magic 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.000 of the wave takes over and propels them. But anyway, 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.160 I just I found it. It'll be useful I think 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.400 to just think of that as we proceed, uh. And 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.720 in order to also keep it connected to surfing in 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.040 some way, to think of of surfing as this thing 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.880 that is at least a thousand years old, maybe all 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.320 older and uh and ultimately, just based on the technology involved, 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.520 is not all that uh, you know, constrained to a 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.439 particular portion of human time. For all we know dinosaurs 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:15.120 for surfing, definitely none for the dinosaurs, well, no, the 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.840 dinosaurs were not surfing. But I mean, ultimately, to come 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.400 back to the title of the episode, when you start 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.320 wondering if Neanderthals surfed, there's absolutely no evidence that they did. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.679 But when you start considering the technology involved, yes, somebody 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.480 could make a case for it, and it would be 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:32.880 you know, you wouldn't have be able to prove it 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.320 necessary that we wouldn't be able to disprove it. So 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.679 what we're going to be talking about though in this 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.640 episode is more a matter of what is known as 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.400 surfers ear. Okay, Now, I remember from when I was 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.680 a kid, people I knew getting swimmers ear, but that 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.600 was just like ear infections, right right, Swimmers ear is 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.480 is the different things. Bacterial infection of the outer ear 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.160 often caused by trap water, So water or debris gets 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.479 trapped in the ear and it can cause an infection 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.319 and uh and depending on like the state and condition 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.520 of your your ear canals. Uh, some people are more 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.800 uh you know, have have more tendants, more greater tendency 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.600 to uh to get swimmers eer than other people. I 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.920 remember people with swimmers ere being treated by just getting 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.839 like ethyl alcohol pulled in there or maybe I don't 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.440 know what kind of some kind of alcohol alcohol uh 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.000 poured in their ear. Yeah, there's just a stest standard 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:30.040 swimmers ear um droplets you can get. I use some 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.000 like just the other day because I swim fairly regularly. 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.320 But uh. But but then also not to be confused 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:38.840 with the drops you would get for a full blown 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.439 ear infection. Like this is where yeah, everything is actually 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.959 getting like more and more painful in your ear, and 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.000 that may require uh, some more advanced drops, but that's 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:50.840 not really what we're talking about here. What we're talking 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:55.360 about here is exostosis of the external auditory canal or 0:10:55.440 --> 0:11:00.240 external auditory exostosis or E a E also known as 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.600 surfers here and then the game. Yeah, and it's it's 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.760 a condition. It's a condition that affects both modern humans 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.920 and our our prehistoric ancestors. So what is E a E. Well, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.280 these are dense bony growths that that that grow that 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:20.559 slowly extend into the auditory ear canal. Whoa bony growths 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.840 in the ear canal? Now, please reassure me, Robert that 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.320 these growths are not like spiny you know. No, No, 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.440 these are rounded growths um that you know. Basically, if 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.000 you look at it, if you look at an image 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.080 of this, it looks like they're bony growths on you know, 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.199 underneath the skin on either side that are like that, 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.920 are that are pushing in, causing kind of a cave in, 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.160 gradual cave in of the auditory canal. That still doesn't 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.800 sound good. So the question is what causes them? Well, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.320 this is where it gets weird. It is, uh, we 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.800 basically still have a lot of questions about surfer's ear, 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.720 But the widely accepted hypothesis is the is the aquatic 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.760 hype ofthesis, and that is that it is caused by 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.920 repeated exposure to cold water or or in some cases 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:10.320 cold wind, but especially cold water. And it's typically encountered 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:14.319 in cold watered in cold water foraging among traditional and 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.960 ancient peoples, as well as among cold water sports practice 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.360 today such as surfing. Coming back to the question of 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.680 what is required for surfing, and you asked about body 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.360 suits and wet suits or dry suits, and uh, you know, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.320 and and a part of this is has to do 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.240 with the fact that, in addition to having to deal 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.360 with you know, potentially being scraped up against things you 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.800 don't want your body scraped against, you're often also surfing 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.240 in colder environments and uh, and you want to protect 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.880 your body from the cold. But the cold water is 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.839 is also an irritant to the inner ear, and uh, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.520 and it is the most commonly observed irritant that leads 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.880 to surfers ear, and repeated irritation leads to this growth. Now, 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.880 wait a minute, it sounded like you were alluding to 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:05.680 they're being potential, multiple potential explanations. Right, well, this is 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.440 I mean, well this is the primary explanation, um, and 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:13.640 I did not encounter another explanation that that was really presented. Basically, 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.400 it's just there are some mysteries remain about exactly how 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:21.440 it occurs. Uh. And Uh, anybody that's discussing surfers here 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.480 like is sticking to the aquatic hypothesis here. Uh, and 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.000 then certainly the evidence bears it out that it's I mean, 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.880 you look at at where surfers here occurs, and it 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.880 occurs in the ears of individuals who are engaging in 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.840 a lot of cold water activity, be it foraging, you know, 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:41.640 pearl diving that sort of thing, or surfing. But you know, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.800 other forms of irritation can can can technically cause it, uh, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.360 because it's just gonna result in tissue inflammation in the 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.360 inner ear. Now, so that's going to happen after just 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.840 like you have a couple of bad days in cold 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.439 water and you get these growths. No, no, no, it's uh, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.600 this is something that's going to develop over the years. 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.280 So typically you see it manifest in a person during 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.920 their like their mid to late thirties or possibly in 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.679 their forties, lining up with the timeline of their exposure 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.760 to the irritation. It could potentially occur earlier though, But 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.160 like this is like when you think about like someone's 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.240 prime surfing years and at what point they've been surfing 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.480 for uh, you know, for say twenty years, that sort 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.480 of thing. Uh, it's gonna line up with this. So 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.520 you're more likely to see it in people who spend 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.600 a lot of time in the water over a long 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.280 period of their lives. Right, Yeah, they're spending a lot 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.800 of time in cold water, Like they're going surfing a 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.440 lot where they're going pearl diving a lot with with 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.360 a uh, you know, a fair degree of regularity. Well, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.720 so it would seem like having bony growths protruding into 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.440 your ear canal would not be a good thing. Right, 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.880 So for for the for the longest, it's not really 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.080 an issue, but you know, it'll reach the point where 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.400 you'll have potential complications from your essentially you're closing ear canals. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.280 That includes decreased hearing capability uh and increased likelihood of 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.200 blockage in an infection due to trapped ear wax or debris. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.880 And you know, you see generally you're looking at a 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.360 five to eight millimeter diameter ear canal, but this can 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:13.080 be narrowed to almost total blockage over time by surfers here. 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:17.440 Am I imagining that there's kind of a cultural stereotype 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.640 where the you know, the the archetype, the surfer dude, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.880 the surfer person is saying like, what what did you say? 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.080 A lot? Is that? Is that just my imagination or 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240 does that exist as part of the stereotype? Um, I mean, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.320 there's certain certainly a crossover between like the surfer stereotype 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.760 and sort of the the dude and sort of hippie 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.520 freewheeling stereotype. I don't know if lack of hearing is 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.200 really part of it, but it would make sense that 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.680 that it would be right because based on what we're 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.640 discussing here, I mean, this is this is where you're 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.800 going to see some potential hearing loss due to exposure 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.800 to the cold water. Now. An important thing to stress, though, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.600 is that we only discovered surfers here in the last 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.920 century or so. I believe the first report on it 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:06.560 was a German paper by Welker h Uber in eighteen 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.520 sixty four. And uh, and so you know, we haven't 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.080 had that long to like really study it and figure 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.440 out what's what the deal is with it, or even 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.040 to figure out how in know ways to treat it 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.280 or how to to prevent it. But the most obvious 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.640 ways to prevent it are of course to avoid regular 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:27.160 cold water activities um which may not be an option 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.440 or or desirable for you if if you're really into 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.000 surfing or you depend on some sort of cold water foraging. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:37.200 But I've read that cold water surfers are six more 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.360 likely to experience it than warm water surfers and sounds 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.400 like a significant effect. Now, you can also wear varying 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.760 forms of ear protection that will help, ranging from special 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.560 plugs to cat special caps to go over your head 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.520 in your ear, to certain varieties of wet suits. But 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.280 if you reach the point where where the bony protrusions 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.200 have grown to the point that it's an issue, doctors 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.240 can also remove the expotosis with a surgical drill. There 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.600 I think two different procedures, two different ways of going 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.520 in there and drilling back the bone the bony growths. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.600 And the good news is that if if you have 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.359 this done, you'll probably you really probably only have to 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.640 do it once because generally, given the timeline of them 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.720 growing back. They can grow back, but you probably won't 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.200 reach that second point where you'll need to have them removed. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:28.760 All right, looks like we need to take a break. 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.840 But when we come back, we will ask the question 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:36.920 of why these spurs and the ears? All right, we're back, 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.600 all right. So we've been talking about surfers ere or 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.760 the idea of external auditory exostoses or e a E. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.120 And these are these bone like protrusions into the ear 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.800 canal that seem to pop up in people who spend 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.400 a lot of their lives in cold water. If you're 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.040 constantly irritating the ear canal with cold water, these things 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.359 are likely to pop up. Now, I guess we haven't 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:05.280 addressed yet why they occur. Well, if you think back 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.040 to the Bible, you have Cane and Able and uh 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.520 Able you know, was was really into stand on the land. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.680 Cane was a big surfer, So God punish it now, Um, 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.040 that has nothing to do with that. Now. Now, this 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.119 is another area where it's there's still a lot of 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.119 open questions about it. Now, so some argue that it's 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.960 essentially like bone spurs, you know, which these occur either 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.960 due to these occur you know, due to constant irritation 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.200 or stress generally in the feet where you have these 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.720 bony um you know, protrusions that are forming in the 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.359 foot could be quite painful. So one idea is that 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.879 it's basically that irritation leading to growth, leading to symptoms. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.840 And there's not a lot else beyond that in terms 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.639 of why, like what is the reason, you know, because 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.000 it's like asking what is what is the reason for 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.919 bone spurs? What is you know, what are the reason 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.600 for for various ailments that afflict us due to the 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.320 things that we insist on do ing due to our 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.640 you know, our our human desire to to ride waves 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.200 or climb mountains to ridiculous heights, that sort of thing. 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.560 But there is one area we will see an argument 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.520 for a purpose behind all that. Unfortunately it's in aquatic 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.520 eight theory. Oh yeah, So aquatic ape theory has come 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.960 up on the show before, and I think we've talked 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.360 about how this is one of those theories that's like 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.000 that's sticky. It's sticky beyond its explanatory power, and it's 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.520 hard to know exactly why some some hypotheses are like this, 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.760 but I think it tends to be the ones that 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:43.320 are just the most uh, that offered the most totalizing 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.240 explanation for the most phenomena through the most interesting image, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:52.800 and it does that. It but it is also widely 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.960 rejected by science. And we can talk about some reasons 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.119 for that in a minute. Yeah, but it does continue 0:19:58.160 --> 0:19:59.639 to come up, and you know, in fact, it was 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.560 it was recently brought up and by none other than 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.960 Sir David Attenborough himself. He apparently on a BBC four 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.800 um series he talked about it and he there's something 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.040 that criticized him for you know, bringing up, you know, 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.760 a redundant scientific theory. Well, I'm not gonna slam I mean, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.480 you know, we talk about theories that are not accepted 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.840 because you know, it's okay to talk about things. I agree, Yeah, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.240 you don't have to think something is correct to talk 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.000 about it. But it sounds like he was sort of 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.879 advocating it. Well, I mean, he has a history of 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.880 being interested in it. I read that he also organized 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.320 the symposium on the topic back in But you know, 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:41.119 it's like you said, we discuss theories and hypotheses on 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.160 this show that that are you know, sometimes definitely under 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:48.080 the category of of rejected or unprovable. Uh. And I 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.560 think my my opinion is that it is okay to 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.840 discuss these It's informative to it, and to discuss these ideas, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.080 you know, as long as you're approaching them with the 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.960 right attitude and you're not like you know, you're not seeking, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.239 uh to to prove them. You know, in in your 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.119 discussion of the of of of what is unprovable, right, 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:11.880 you're not becoming an evangelist for something based on bad evidence. Uh. Now, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.679 So for a brief refresh, in case you don't recall 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:16.840 us talking about this theory in the past, the short 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.720 version is I think that the original idea was that 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:24.280 in nineteen sixty a marine biologist named Alistair Hardy proposed 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.919 this idea that we had an aquatic primate ancestor maybe 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.800 four to seven million years ago. And he proposed this 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.080 in this article a New Scientist. I think he also 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.399 gave a big talk about this. I think the idea 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.480 is that us having a an aquatic or semi aquatic 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:47.000 primate ancestor could explain many interesting morphological features of humans 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.400