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Speaker 1: Hey, are you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind?

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 1: it's Saturday. Time to go into the vault for a

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Speaker 1: classic episode of the show. This one was originally called

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Speaker 1: Surfing Neander Tolls and it published on August nineteen. So

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Speaker 1: grab a board, the surf is up. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind, a production of I Heart Radios

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

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Speaker 1: And before we turn the mics on, or actually after

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Speaker 1: we turned the mics on, but before we officially started

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Speaker 1: the episode, we were just talking about is there a

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Speaker 1: better eighties action movie than Point Break? Um? I mean,

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Speaker 1: arguably there there are some, definitely some action pictures that

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Speaker 1: I love more than Point Break, But Point Break has

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Speaker 1: a purity to it, you know, this like this, this

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Speaker 1: the weird nobility of this band of nomadic surfers who

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Speaker 1: are also bank robbers and uh and then the man

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Speaker 1: who is pursuing them, a man who must become a

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Speaker 1: surfer in order to catch surfers. Because isn't that it

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Speaker 1: that the old saying in order to catch a surfer,

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Speaker 1: you must become a surfer. Uh, something like that. Patrick

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Speaker 1: Swayze is the key to the movie. Oh and hey,

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you're out there, some kind of

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Speaker 1: pedants saying wait a minute point break didn't come out

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. How are you saying it's the

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Speaker 1: best eighties action movie? As we all know, Sinna in

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Speaker 1: the cinema world, the nineteen eighties lasted until Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a solid argument. But yeah, this was.

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Speaker 1: This was some some really great sways in this film,

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Speaker 1: Like Swayzy just has such such a unique charisma that

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Speaker 1: he's it's it's like with the Rhodhouse. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: he's able to be just so serious in this role

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Speaker 1: and it's and you're you're laughing because it is ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time you're totally buying into this presentation.

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Speaker 1: He's giving you absolutely the the deep seriousness and the

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Speaker 1: delivery of the lines like pain don't hurt, the fact

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Speaker 1: that he is is trying to commit to this character

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Speaker 1: who's like a philosopher bouncer. Yeah, in Roadhouse, but now,

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Speaker 1: I mean, essentially, I think he's playing the same character

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Speaker 1: in Point Break, and that in Roadhouse he's a philosopher bouncer.

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Speaker 1: In Point Break, he's the same character. He's now become

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Speaker 1: a philosopher surfer slash bank robber. Yeah, and and he's

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Speaker 1: he's tremendous. He just like he eats that they've seen

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Speaker 1: he's in point Point Break is a great example of

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Speaker 1: one of these eighties again, but it was the eighties.

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Speaker 1: Eighties action movies that is so silly in a way

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Speaker 1: that like, there are still action movies that have a

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Speaker 1: great spirit of silliness that aren't like these unpleasant, self

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Speaker 1: serious action movies. Uh well, you know, a good example

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Speaker 1: is like the later movies in the Fast and the

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Speaker 1: Furious franchise, which can be a lot of fun, but

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Speaker 1: they are they're in the joke like the rock is

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Speaker 1: winking at the camera. It's you know, it's played explicitly

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Speaker 1: for a kind of like wet laughter that like cars

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Speaker 1: can fly and all this, But that's not what's going

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Speaker 1: on in Point Break, Point Break, and and some of

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Speaker 1: the movies like it are just as silly as the

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Speaker 1: later Fast and the Furious movies, but they're not they're

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Speaker 1: not winking at you. They're not in on the joke. Instead,

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Speaker 1: they've got Patrick Swayzy, who's taken himself real seriously. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if part of that is that a film like

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Speaker 1: Point Break like building on the in a sense, even

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Speaker 1: though it's an eighties and so technically nineties film, it's

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Speaker 1: building on like the grittier uh, like a film heritage

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Speaker 1: of the nineteen seventies that preceded it, and where whereas

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Speaker 1: nineties films are are proceeding from the eighties films, uh

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Speaker 1: and so forth to where there's just like the initial

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Speaker 1: groundwork underneath something like The Fast and the Furious, it's

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Speaker 1: just that much sillier and that that and just further

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Speaker 1: removed from like nineteen seventies cinema. Wait a minute, why

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Speaker 1: are we talking about Point Break? Oh? Yeah, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about it because this episode is about surfing the inder Tals.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's also not about surfing Neandertals, but it

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Speaker 1: is about Neanderthals. It's about surfer's ear and uh, surfing

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Speaker 1: the Andertals, the working title of Point Break that was

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Speaker 1: on the script. It It is exactly where my mind

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Speaker 1: went when I first read a very recent scientific paper

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Speaker 1: that came out about the under tolls and surfers here.

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Speaker 1: But but before we get into all that, um and

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Speaker 1: we may come back two point break. As we proceed again,

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Speaker 1: I want to be clear that this episode is not

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Speaker 1: really about surfing. It doesn't have that much to do

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Speaker 1: with surfing. But I do want to point out the

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Speaker 1: ancient origins of this aquatic practice we call surfing. What

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Speaker 1: surfing wasn't invented in the nineteen sixties, No, no, no.

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Speaker 1: And I was looking at a couple of sources on this,

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Speaker 1: but but one of the better ones that came across

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Speaker 1: um it was a book by Ben R. Finney and

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Speaker 1: James D. Houston called Surfing, A History of the Ancient

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian Sport and U pretty inscifle. They point out that

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Speaker 1: that all you need really to surf is a surfer

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Speaker 1: and a board and of course waves um or something

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Speaker 1: standing in for a board, such as a canoe, or

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Speaker 1: even the surfer's own body. I mean, you can body surf.

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Speaker 1: What You don't need a surfballa you don't need a

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Speaker 1: surf suit. Well, as we'll discuss, it can be very helpful,

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Speaker 1: especially in the colder waters. But you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's ultimately and I don't know. Have you ever surfed, Joe,

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Speaker 1: have you ever? No, I've I mean very limited water experience.

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Speaker 1: I've done like knee boarding, and that's I know, that's

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Speaker 1: not surfing. I'd say that's the closest to that. You've

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Speaker 1: You've gotten up on your knees on a surfboard, well,

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Speaker 1: not on a surfboard, on a knee board. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how different they are. I've gotten up on my

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Speaker 1: knees on a floating thing that was being towed behind

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Speaker 1: a boat. Okay, well a little. It's not close, but

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Speaker 1: but it's it's enough. We can we can build from here.

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Speaker 1: So I I am not a surfer, but I on

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Speaker 1: a trip to Whoa I, um, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago or something. Um, I was encouraged by

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Speaker 1: a friend to go out and try it. This friend

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Speaker 1: had surfed before. This is very helpful I find. If

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Speaker 1: you were going to try to surf, uh, certainly go

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Speaker 1: with someone who has at least done it once before,

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Speaker 1: but preverably somebody who who is more skilled than that.

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Speaker 1: But there is this kind of magical moment where you're

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Speaker 1: you're pushing the board, you're you're you're paddling and kicking.

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Speaker 1: You're just going as hard and as fast as you can. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then it comes this this almost magical moment where

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Speaker 1: the wave catches the board and suddenly the waves propelling

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Speaker 1: the board. And this is the point where then you

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Speaker 1: can climb up on onto your knees on the board.

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Speaker 1: And then and once you you know, have your figure

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Speaker 1: out what you're doing, this is where you can rise

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Speaker 1: up on both of your feet on the board and

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Speaker 1: you can ride the surfboard like a surfer rides a surfboard.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds hard. I mean, it's it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where I definitely would have given up

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Speaker 1: had I not been encouraged to keep doing it, you know,

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Speaker 1: to just keep doing it again once more. Let's go,

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Speaker 1: let's paddle back, and then paddle as hard and fast

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Speaker 1: as you can to try and catch this magical moment

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Speaker 1: when the when the board catches you. Um. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so like once so, all you need is aboard the

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Speaker 1: waves yourself and then, like the patients and or courage

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Speaker 1: to to reach that point where you can rise up

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Speaker 1: on the board and become comfortable enough doing so that

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Speaker 1: you can manipulate the bird board further. Okay, so surfing

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Speaker 1: was not invented by the beach boys in the mid

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. Where does surfing actually come from? Well, as

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Speaker 1: the authors at this point out how Hawaii is of

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Speaker 1: course strongly associated with surfing, and humans seem to have

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Speaker 1: first arrived at these far flung Polynesian islands by between

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Speaker 1: three hundred and four hundred CE. Now, long boards would

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Speaker 1: have developed over time, and the author's guess that Hawaiian

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Speaker 1: surfing is ultimately perhaps a thousand years old, Yet the

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Speaker 1: principles involved would have been known to Pacific islanders and

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Speaker 1: the first pioneers to enter the Pacific as far back

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Speaker 1: as two thousand b C. So, um, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those again, it's one of those things where

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Speaker 1: the necessary technology uh, and and and ability. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's not something that where it did not exist before

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago, you know, conceivably uh, you know, these

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Speaker 1: more ancient cultures knew of the properties involved. So we

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure how far back it could go, right,

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Speaker 1: And there's also some debate whether a form of stand

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Speaker 1: up paddle boarding practiced by the pre Incan civilization in

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Speaker 1: Peru would have constituted surfing. Some two thousand years ago.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that's another thing you get into, you know,

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Speaker 1: discussions of the terminology. Is it truly surfing, is it's

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Speaker 1: something else? Are are the people on these paddle boards

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Speaker 1: ever reaching that point where the you know, the magic

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Speaker 1: of the wave takes over and propels them. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: I just I found it. It'll be useful I think

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Speaker 1: to just think of that as we proceed, uh. And

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Speaker 1: in order to also keep it connected to surfing in

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Speaker 1: some way, to think of of surfing as this thing

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Speaker 1: that is at least a thousand years old, maybe all

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Speaker 1: older and uh and ultimately, just based on the technology involved,

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Speaker 1: is not all that uh, you know, constrained to a

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Speaker 1: particular portion of human time. For all we know dinosaurs

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Speaker 1: for surfing, definitely none for the dinosaurs, well, no, the

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Speaker 1: dinosaurs were not surfing. But I mean, ultimately, to come

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Speaker 1: back to the title of the episode, when you start

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Speaker 1: wondering if Neanderthals surfed, there's absolutely no evidence that they did.

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Speaker 1: But when you start considering the technology involved, yes, somebody

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Speaker 1: could make a case for it, and it would be

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Speaker 1: you know, you wouldn't have be able to prove it

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Speaker 1: necessary that we wouldn't be able to disprove it. So

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Speaker 1: what we're going to be talking about though in this

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Speaker 1: episode is more a matter of what is known as

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Speaker 1: surfers ear. Okay, Now, I remember from when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, people I knew getting swimmers ear, but that

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Speaker 1: was just like ear infections, right right, Swimmers ear is

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Speaker 1: is the different things. Bacterial infection of the outer ear

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Speaker 1: often caused by trap water, So water or debris gets

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Speaker 1: trapped in the ear and it can cause an infection

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Speaker 1: and uh and depending on like the state and condition

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Speaker 1: of your your ear canals. Uh, some people are more

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Speaker 1: uh you know, have have more tendants, more greater tendency

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Speaker 1: to uh to get swimmers eer than other people. I

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Speaker 1: remember people with swimmers ere being treated by just getting

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Speaker 1: like ethyl alcohol pulled in there or maybe I don't

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Speaker 1: know what kind of some kind of alcohol alcohol uh

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Speaker 1: poured in their ear. Yeah, there's just a stest standard

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Speaker 1: swimmers ear um droplets you can get. I use some

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Speaker 1: like just the other day because I swim fairly regularly.

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Speaker 1: But uh. But but then also not to be confused

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Speaker 1: with the drops you would get for a full blown

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Speaker 1: ear infection. Like this is where yeah, everything is actually

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Speaker 1: getting like more and more painful in your ear, and

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Speaker 1: that may require uh, some more advanced drops, but that's

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Speaker 1: not really what we're talking about here. What we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here is exostosis of the external auditory canal or

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Speaker 1: external auditory exostosis or E a E also known as

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Speaker 1: surfers here and then the game. Yeah, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: a condition. It's a condition that affects both modern humans

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Speaker 1: and our our prehistoric ancestors. So what is E a E. Well,

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Speaker 1: these are dense bony growths that that that grow that

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Speaker 1: slowly extend into the auditory ear canal. Whoa bony growths

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Speaker 1: in the ear canal? Now, please reassure me, Robert that

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Speaker 1: these growths are not like spiny you know. No, No,

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Speaker 1: these are rounded growths um that you know. Basically, if

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Speaker 1: you look at it, if you look at an image

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Speaker 1: of this, it looks like they're bony growths on you know,

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Speaker 1: underneath the skin on either side that are like that,

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Speaker 1: are that are pushing in, causing kind of a cave in,

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Speaker 1: gradual cave in of the auditory canal. That still doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound good. So the question is what causes them? Well,

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Speaker 1: this is where it gets weird. It is, uh, we

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Speaker 1: basically still have a lot of questions about surfer's ear,

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Speaker 1: But the widely accepted hypothesis is the is the aquatic

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Speaker 1: hype ofthesis, and that is that it is caused by

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Speaker 1: repeated exposure to cold water or or in some cases

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Speaker 1: cold wind, but especially cold water. And it's typically encountered

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Speaker 1: in cold watered in cold water foraging among traditional and

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Speaker 1: ancient peoples, as well as among cold water sports practice

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Speaker 1: today such as surfing. Coming back to the question of

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Speaker 1: what is required for surfing, and you asked about body

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Speaker 1: suits and wet suits or dry suits, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and a part of this is has to do

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Speaker 1: with the fact that, in addition to having to deal

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Speaker 1: with you know, potentially being scraped up against things you

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Speaker 1: don't want your body scraped against, you're often also surfing

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Speaker 1: in colder environments and uh, and you want to protect

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Speaker 1: your body from the cold. But the cold water is

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Speaker 1: is also an irritant to the inner ear, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and it is the most commonly observed irritant that leads

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Speaker 1: to surfers ear, and repeated irritation leads to this growth. Now,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, it sounded like you were alluding to

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Speaker 1: they're being potential, multiple potential explanations. Right, well, this is

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Speaker 1: I mean, well this is the primary explanation, um, and

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Speaker 1: I did not encounter another explanation that that was really presented. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it's just there are some mysteries remain about exactly how

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Speaker 1: it occurs. Uh. And Uh, anybody that's discussing surfers here

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Speaker 1: like is sticking to the aquatic hypothesis here. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: then certainly the evidence bears it out that it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: you look at at where surfers here occurs, and it

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Speaker 1: occurs in the ears of individuals who are engaging in

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Speaker 1: a lot of cold water activity, be it foraging, you know,

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Speaker 1: pearl diving that sort of thing, or surfing. But you know,

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Speaker 1: other forms of irritation can can can technically cause it, uh,

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Speaker 1: because it's just gonna result in tissue inflammation in the

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Speaker 1: inner ear. Now, so that's going to happen after just

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Speaker 1: like you have a couple of bad days in cold

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Speaker 1: water and you get these growths. No, no, no, it's uh,

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Speaker 1: this is something that's going to develop over the years.

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Speaker 1: So typically you see it manifest in a person during

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Speaker 1: their like their mid to late thirties or possibly in

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Speaker 1: their forties, lining up with the timeline of their exposure

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Speaker 1: to the irritation. It could potentially occur earlier though, But

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Speaker 1: like this is like when you think about like someone's

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Speaker 1: prime surfing years and at what point they've been surfing

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Speaker 1: for uh, you know, for say twenty years, that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. Uh, it's gonna line up with this. So

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Speaker 1: you're more likely to see it in people who spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time in the water over a long

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Speaker 1: period of their lives. Right, Yeah, they're spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time in cold water, Like they're going surfing a

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Speaker 1: lot where they're going pearl diving a lot with with

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Speaker 1: a uh, you know, a fair degree of regularity. Well,

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Speaker 1: so it would seem like having bony growths protruding into

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Speaker 1: your ear canal would not be a good thing. Right,

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Speaker 1: So for for the for the longest, it's not really

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Speaker 1: an issue, but you know, it'll reach the point where

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Speaker 1: you'll have potential complications from your essentially you're closing ear canals.

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Speaker 1: That includes decreased hearing capability uh and increased likelihood of

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Speaker 1: blockage in an infection due to trapped ear wax or debris.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you see generally you're looking at a

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Speaker 1: five to eight millimeter diameter ear canal, but this can

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Speaker 1: be narrowed to almost total blockage over time by surfers here.

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Speaker 1: Am I imagining that there's kind of a cultural stereotype

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Speaker 1: where the you know, the the archetype, the surfer dude,

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Speaker 1: the surfer person is saying like, what what did you say?

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Speaker 1: A lot? Is that? Is that just my imagination or

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Speaker 1: does that exist as part of the stereotype? Um, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's certain certainly a crossover between like the surfer stereotype

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Speaker 1: and sort of the the dude and sort of hippie

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Speaker 1: freewheeling stereotype. I don't know if lack of hearing is

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Speaker 1: really part of it, but it would make sense that

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Speaker 1: that it would be right because based on what we're

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Speaker 1: discussing here, I mean, this is this is where you're

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Speaker 1: going to see some potential hearing loss due to exposure

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Speaker 1: to the cold water. Now. An important thing to stress, though,

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Speaker 1: is that we only discovered surfers here in the last

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Speaker 1: century or so. I believe the first report on it

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Speaker 1: was a German paper by Welker h Uber in eighteen

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Speaker 1: sixty four. And uh, and so you know, we haven't

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Speaker 1: had that long to like really study it and figure

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Speaker 1: out what's what the deal is with it, or even

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Speaker 1: to figure out how in know ways to treat it

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Speaker 1: or how to to prevent it. But the most obvious

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Speaker 1: ways to prevent it are of course to avoid regular

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Speaker 1: cold water activities um which may not be an option

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Speaker 1: or or desirable for you if if you're really into

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Speaker 1: surfing or you depend on some sort of cold water foraging.

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Speaker 1: But I've read that cold water surfers are six more

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Speaker 1: likely to experience it than warm water surfers and sounds

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Speaker 1: like a significant effect. Now, you can also wear varying

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Speaker 1: forms of ear protection that will help, ranging from special

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Speaker 1: plugs to cat special caps to go over your head

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Speaker 1: in your ear, to certain varieties of wet suits. But

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Speaker 1: if you reach the point where where the bony protrusions

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Speaker 1: have grown to the point that it's an issue, doctors

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Speaker 1: can also remove the expotosis with a surgical drill. There

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Speaker 1: I think two different procedures, two different ways of going

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Speaker 1: in there and drilling back the bone the bony growths.

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Speaker 1: And the good news is that if if you have

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Speaker 1: this done, you'll probably you really probably only have to

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Speaker 1: do it once because generally, given the timeline of them

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Speaker 1: growing back. They can grow back, but you probably won't

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Speaker 1: reach that second point where you'll need to have them removed.

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Speaker 1: All right, looks like we need to take a break.

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Speaker 1: But when we come back, we will ask the question

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Speaker 1: of why these spurs and the ears? All right, we're back,

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Speaker 1: all right. So we've been talking about surfers ere or

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Speaker 1: the idea of external auditory exostoses or e a E.

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Speaker 1: And these are these bone like protrusions into the ear

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Speaker 1: canal that seem to pop up in people who spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of their lives in cold water. If you're

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Speaker 1: constantly irritating the ear canal with cold water, these things

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Speaker 1: are likely to pop up. Now, I guess we haven't

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Speaker 1: addressed yet why they occur. Well, if you think back

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Speaker 1: to the Bible, you have Cane and Able and uh

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Speaker 1: Able you know, was was really into stand on the land.

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Speaker 1: Cane was a big surfer, So God punish it now, Um,

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Speaker 1: that has nothing to do with that. Now. Now, this

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Speaker 1: is another area where it's there's still a lot of

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Speaker 1: open questions about it. Now, so some argue that it's

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Speaker 1: essentially like bone spurs, you know, which these occur either

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Speaker 1: due to these occur you know, due to constant irritation

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Speaker 1: or stress generally in the feet where you have these

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Speaker 1: bony um you know, protrusions that are forming in the

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Speaker 1: foot could be quite painful. So one idea is that

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Speaker 1: it's basically that irritation leading to growth, leading to symptoms.

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Speaker 1: And there's not a lot else beyond that in terms

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Speaker 1: of why, like what is the reason, you know, because

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Speaker 1: it's like asking what is what is the reason for

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Speaker 1: bone spurs? What is you know, what are the reason

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Speaker 1: for for various ailments that afflict us due to the

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Speaker 1: things that we insist on do ing due to our

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Speaker 1: you know, our our human desire to to ride waves

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Speaker 1: or climb mountains to ridiculous heights, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: But there is one area we will see an argument

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Speaker 1: for a purpose behind all that. Unfortunately it's in aquatic

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Speaker 1: eight theory. Oh yeah, So aquatic ape theory has come

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Speaker 1: up on the show before, and I think we've talked

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Speaker 1: about how this is one of those theories that's like

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Speaker 1: that's sticky. It's sticky beyond its explanatory power, and it's

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Speaker 1: hard to know exactly why some some hypotheses are like this,

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Speaker 1: but I think it tends to be the ones that

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Speaker 1: are just the most uh, that offered the most totalizing

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Speaker 1: explanation for the most phenomena through the most interesting image,

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Speaker 1: and it does that. It but it is also widely

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Speaker 1: rejected by science. And we can talk about some reasons

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Speaker 1: for that in a minute. Yeah, but it does continue

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Speaker 1: to come up, and you know, in fact, it was

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Speaker 1: it was recently brought up and by none other than

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Speaker 1: Sir David Attenborough himself. He apparently on a BBC four

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Speaker 1: um series he talked about it and he there's something

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Speaker 1: that criticized him for you know, bringing up, you know,

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Speaker 1: a redundant scientific theory. Well, I'm not gonna slam I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we talk about theories that are not accepted

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Speaker 1: because you know, it's okay to talk about things. I agree, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to think something is correct to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. But it sounds like he was sort of

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Speaker 1: advocating it. Well, I mean, he has a history of

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Speaker 1: being interested in it. I read that he also organized

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Speaker 1: the symposium on the topic back in But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you said, we discuss theories and hypotheses on

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Speaker 1: this show that that are you know, sometimes definitely under

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Speaker 1: the category of of rejected or unprovable. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: think my my opinion is that it is okay to

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Speaker 1: discuss these It's informative to it, and to discuss these ideas,

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Speaker 1: you know, as long as you're approaching them with the

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Speaker 1: right attitude and you're not like you know, you're not seeking,

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Speaker 1: uh to to prove them. You know, in in your

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Speaker 1: discussion of the of of of what is unprovable, right,

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00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 1: you're not becoming an evangelist for something based on bad evidence. Uh. Now,

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Speaker 1: So for a brief refresh, in case you don't recall

392
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Speaker 1: us talking about this theory in the past, the short

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Speaker 1: version is I think that the original idea was that

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty a marine biologist named Alistair Hardy proposed

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Speaker 1: this idea that we had an aquatic primate ancestor maybe

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Speaker 1: four to seven million years ago. And he proposed this

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Speaker 1: in this article a New Scientist. I think he also

398
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: gave a big talk about this. I think the idea

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Speaker 1: is that us having a an aquatic or semi aquatic

400
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Speaker 1: primate ancestor could explain many interesting morphological features of humans

401
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Speaker 1: that distinguish us from our closest relatives like the other

402
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: great apes. And there are a lot of examples of this,

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Speaker 1: like why do we have less body hair than the

404
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Speaker 1: other great apes? Why do we have this, you know,

405
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Speaker 1: smoother skin, And his idea was, well, maybe we lost

406
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Speaker 1: body hair and got smooth skin to streamline us for

407
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: swimming to reduce drag in the water. Um, why do

408
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: we have a thicker layer of subcutaneous fat uh than

409
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Speaker 1: some of the other than I think all the other

410
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: great apes. And his idea here is, well, maybe that's

411
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Speaker 1: like what we see in marine mammals that they use

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Speaker 1: for water insulation to help keep their bodies warm. Why

413
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Speaker 1: do we stand upright instead of walking on all fours?

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Speaker 1: The ideas well, maybe we had to wade in the

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Speaker 1: shallows and that got us standing up. And while it

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00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: is an interesting idea, and I think you know Hardy

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Speaker 1: it was it was clever for Hardy to come up

418
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Speaker 1: with this. I think we now have better explanations for

419
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: a lot of these interesting differences between humans and the

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Speaker 1: other great apes. And there's also no direct physical evidence

421
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: for the aquatic ape theory. But to bring it back

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00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: to the context here is this You're saying that some

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00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: enthusiasts of the aquatic ape theory would believe that our

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Speaker 1: ear canals or features of our ear canals would seem

425
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: to fit in with that list of supposed aquatic adaptations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've ad e a positioned as possible evidence. You know

427
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: that it's a narrowing of the ear canals and keeping

428
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: with the narrowing of ear canals and aquatic mammals. It's

429
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: true enough the ear canals and toothed whales are narrow

430
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: and clogged with debris and wax. In bleeen whale ear

431
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: canals are plugged with a waxy cap. Now you know

432
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: they're obvious problems with this because it's not like, you know,

433
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: there's not some sort of Lamarchian scenario going on here

434
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: where surfers starts surfing and then their ears mutate into

435
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: into weird forms. It's not like the children of surfers

436
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: have have permanently plugged ear holes or anything. But maybe

437
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: the idea would be that we evolved the the adaptation

438
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: that gives our bodies the capability to adapt to repeated

439
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: water explight or or we would have developed the genetic

440
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: predisposition for for surfers here, and we do have a

441
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: genetic predisposition for surfers here. Uh that that's that seems

442
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: to be the case. But um, I think it's it's

443
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: a stretch to tie it in with this uh largely

444
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: refuted theory. Yeah, well, I mean I want to say

445
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: again not that we accept the theory or would advocate it,

446
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 1: but in the defense of this theory, I mean, it

447
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: is interesting to consider, and there's nothing inherently implausible about

448
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: the situation it imagines, nor nor insidious. It's not like

449
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: an anti science theory, right right, right, it's just so

450
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: there's nothing implausible about like prehistoric primates and migrating to

451
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: a partially aquatic lifestyle and gaining biological adaptations in the process.

452
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: It happened with other mammals, right, So it's not hard

453
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: to believe that a similar thing could have in principle

454
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: happened with primates. But the question is, just is that

455
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: what the evidence we have today's supports, And I think

456
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: most experts, for good reasons, think the answer is no.

457
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: M Most experts today believe the evidence for humans having

458
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: an aquatic ape ancestor doesn't hold up very well. Again,

459
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: there's zero direct evidence of it, so we don't have

460
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: like remains of an aquatic ancestor that just doesn't exist.

461
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: So you're you're having to hypothesize a sort of like

462
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: lost period that we haven't found direct evidence of yet,

463
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: but just reason backwards from traits that exist later. But

464
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: there's a basic question here. I can't I came across

465
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: this on from the writings of some paleo anthropologists, so

466
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry now I'm forgetting the the person's name. But

467
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: here here's a basic answer. If all these traits that

468
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: they're trying to explain through the aquatic ape theory were

469
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: acquired through an aquatic lifestyle that happened maybe four to

470
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: seven million years ago, why were all the aquatic traits

471
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: retained for millions of years after our ancestors supposedly moved

472
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: back to dry land. You would you would expect like

473
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: then the these traits would be lost because now they'd

474
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: be vestigial. We'd grow all that lovely hair back. Yeah,

475
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: unless you pose it like, well, actually, it turned out

476
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: once you moved back on the land, there was a

477
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: good reason for retaining that trait. Now, now it stayed

478
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: because it served some other survival purpose. But then you

479
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: could just short circuit the aquatic ape situation and say, well,

480
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: maybe we just got those traits because it served some

481
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: other purpose. So right, like like coming back to the

482
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: the hair theory of like the less hair you have,

483
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: the more you're able to show off that parasite free skin. Right,

484
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: that's a common theory. I mean, so, there are a

485
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: couple of major theories that exist now to explain why

486
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: humans ancestors lost a lot of the body hair they

487
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: originally had. And we don't know the answer, but some

488
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: fairly plausible answers seemed to be that that it helped

489
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: with with heat dispersal uh, and that it was maybe

490
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: a very good sexual selection signal. It it showed off

491
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: I don't have any lice on me because look how

492
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: little hair I have. And it turns out that I

493
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: think there are better explanations like that, And again we

494
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: don't know them for sure, but they seem like very plausible,

495
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: fitting with the evidence, explanations for all of these traits

496
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: that are answered through the aquatic ape theory. So why

497
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: do we stand up on two legs? We don't know

498
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: the answer, but a good candidate for that seems to

499
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: be that we were using our hands for things we

500
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: adapted to have to want to have free hands, uh,

501
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: and other things like oh, a common one that's cited

502
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: for the aquatic ape hypothesis is that why do we

503
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: have voluntary control over our breath? Right, we wouldn't need

504
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: that unless we were trying to be able to dive

505
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: underwater to get you know, marine mollusks or something is prey.

506
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: But what if we evolved voluntary control of the breath

507
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: because we needed to speak, right, to speak to seeing,

508
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, so to communicate with each other, with each other,

509
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: that these are activities that require control of breath. Yeah, so,

510
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: I guess my main takeaway is that, you know, I

511
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: don't want to slam aquatic ape too hard. It's not

512
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: like an odious theory or something. It's just that I

513
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: think it's something that is. It's unfortunately sticky, and there

514
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: are better hypotheses more in line with the actual evidence.

515
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: We have to explain the same morphull logical features that

516
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: people appeal to the aquatic ape theory to explain. All right, Well,

517
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: on that note, let's take one more break. But when

518
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: we come back, we will we'll get to some more

519
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: good stuff. Discussing surfer's ear in human remains but also

520
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: in the remains of Neanderthals are So I think all

521
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: this stuff about surfer's ear is fascinating in and of itself,

522
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: but the the extra cool thing here is that surfer's

523
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: ear is detectable in human remains, right, because it's not

524
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: just soft flesh. They're like bony protruser. Yes, so we

525
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: can we can look to coastal humans of the past

526
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: and judge to what degree they were interacting with cold water,

527
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: and then we can also based on that, determine how

528
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: such acts were divided between the genders based on the

529
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: skeletal remains. Yeah. For instance, in December of researchers from

530
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: Washington University in St. Louis discovered skeletal evidence of surfer's

531
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: ear in a pre Columbian Panamanian village. They were looking

532
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: at a hundred twenty five skulls from nine burial side

533
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: and they found seven cases in males, one in female.

534
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: So this is this is interesting. You think of Panama

535
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: and you think of you may think of warmer waters,

536
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: but the water in the Gulf of Panama is actually

537
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: quite cold between January and April. And the researchers believe

538
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: that the divers here, that the remains that they found

539
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: were likely specialized pearl divers uh probably going after stuff

540
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: like like mother of pearl or or the orange and

541
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: purple pearls that derived from two species of thorny oysters.

542
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: These were these were popular in the region and you

543
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: also find these artifacts among the veried dead in these

544
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: grave sites. Also, Spanish explorers would later record the activities

545
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: of such pearl divers as well as you know, staying there.

546
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: They were trained since childhood to dive down four fathoms

547
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: that's twenty four ft or seven point three meters deep.

548
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: My ears are hurt and just thinking about uh so,

549
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, surface certainly like these would have been individuals

550
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,719
Speaker 1: diving down into those cold waters of training from an

551
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: early age and developing these bony protrusions that would there

552
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: were then detectable um you know, you know ages later

553
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: when we look back and try and figure out how

554
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: they lived. So, you know, it's a little things like

555
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: that that are insightful about it. But of course we're

556
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: talking about the recent past. We're talking about human remain

557
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, almost sapiens. Is there is there a reason

558
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: you brought up neandertals early on? I feel like there was. Yes,

559
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: we've got a connection here, and that's because there's a

560
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: very recent study and this one came from Washington University. Uh,

561
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: Eric trink Us at All, author to paper External auditory

562
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: exococis among Western Eurasian Late Middle and Late Pleistocene humans

563
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: and this was published in p LS one. So, uh,

564
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: just a refresher about the Neanderthals, who we've we've talked

565
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: about on the show before and we'll continue to talk

566
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: about because there's always some sort of cool Neanderthal related

567
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: story coming out. Uh, they are our closest extinct relatives.

568
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: They lived in Eurasia two dred thousand to thirty thousand

569
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: years ago. We don't know exactly what happened to the Neanderthals.

570
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: They likely transitioned from they were out likely originally transition

571
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: to transition from Homo antecessor to Homo neanderthal insis a

572
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand years ago, and then they wouldn't

573
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: extinct thirty thousand years ago. Now we're continuing to learn

574
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: a great deal about them, how they differed from us physically,

575
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: but also what their culture may have consisted of. They

576
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: were ideal cold weather hominids, shorter and stockier than Homo sapiens.

577
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: They had large brains, but it seems that their brains

578
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: were far more suited for intense visual processing rather than

579
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: social processing, which would have been needed in the lower

580
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: light northern climates of Europe. Homo Sapiens, on the other hand,

581
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: are ultimately the evolutionary project product of higher light regions

582
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: of Africa. So enter this new study from Eric Trinkaus.

583
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: At All, they examined well preserved ear canals and the

584
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: remains of seventy seven ancient humans, including Neanderthals and early

585
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: modern humans of the Middle too late Plistocene epoch of

586
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: western Eurasia. So the rate of Homo sapiens surfer's ear

587
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: was more or less standard, but half of the twenty

588
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: three Neanderthals sampled had e A and their cases were

589
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: mild to severe, and we're seeing it roughly twice the

590
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: frequency of Homo Sapiens examples. So the obvious explanation would

591
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: be that Neanderthals simply foraged in cold waters more than

592
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: Homo sapiens, and that might well have been part of it.

593
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: Certainly it highlights that the water, the cold waters were

594
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: part of their foraging uh you know, realm. But it

595
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: also could mean that they just had an even greater

596
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: genetic predisposition for E A because again, humans have a

597
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: pre disposition for E A. Uh, and we see that

598
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: in modern human genetics as well. So here's just a

599
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: quick quote from from drink House about the study. Quote

600
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: and exceptionally high frequency of external auditory exotosis among Neanderthals

601
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: and a more modest level among high latitude earlier Upper

602
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: Paleolithic modern humans indicate a higher frequency of aquatic resource

603
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: exploitation among both groups of humans than is suggested by

604
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: the archaeological record. In particular, it reinforces the foraging abilities

605
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,239
Speaker 1: and resource diversity of the Neanderthals. Well, that's interesting. So

606
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,959
Speaker 1: it's saying that this is an indication that maybe humans

607
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: and especially neandertals of the time, we're spending more time

608
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: foraging in the water than other evidence in the archaeological

609
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: record would predict. Just another example of possible evidence for

610
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: for neandertal exploitation of marine resources for for food or whatever.

611
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: Is A is a paper I was looking at from

612
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: P and A S from two thousand and eight by Stringer.

613
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: At all that found is I was looking at the

614
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: Gibraltar region and the authors said that what we find

615
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: indications that inertals had knowledge of the geographic distribution and

616
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: behavior of their prey. We present here the evidence from

617
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: Gibraltar sites showing that Middle Paleolithic humans exploited not only mollusks,

618
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: but also seals, dolphins, and fish through a wide spread

619
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: of time. Dolphins and seals. So we got Neanderthals of

620
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: the period potentially hunting marine mammals, not quite wailing, but

621
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: a modest form of marine mammal hunting. And yeah, and

622
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: then in the process of doing it, developing surfers here,

623
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: possibly to the point of of deafness. And and by

624
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: the way, there's a there's another paper paper there was

625
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: also from Drinkos from in which he and his team

626
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: found an old, older Neanderthal from about fifty thousand years

627
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: ago who had suffered multiple injuries and become deaf. As such,

628
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: he argued that the elder must have relied on the

629
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: help of others to avoid prey and survive well into

630
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: his forties. So, you know, sort of like sandwiching these

631
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: two separate it studies together, it like it kind of

632
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: paints this picture you know of these you know, these

633
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: these these Neanderthals of foraging in the cold waters, diving

634
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: down for Mala's going after these uh uh, these other

635
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: marine creatures, and in doing so, like the the the

636
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: older members of the society, at least the ones that

637
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: are that are engaged in the aquatic foraging. Uh, you know,

638
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: going deaf and then having to depend on other members

639
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: of their society to survive. So I know you've been

640
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: picturing them as Patrick Swayze the entire time. Well no,

641
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: but but for some reason, when I first read the headline,

642
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: like last week or the week before, my my mind

643
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: instantly went to point break. It is the surfing movie.

644
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Uh par excellence. Wait what about what about Surf Ninjas.

645
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: I've never seen Surf Ninjas. Can't vouch for it. I

646
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: have anything. I guess we'll have to come back and

647
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: check out Surf Ninjas. I just looked it up. Oh

648
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: it has Rob Schneider in it. That one don't know,

649
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: uh not that I can see right here unless he's

650
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: a cameo. Okay, it's goott Leslie Nielsen, tone Loke, Rob Schneider,

651
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: Ernie Rayas Jr. And All Star Gas. All right, well,

652
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: we'll have to leave it there. But you know again,

653
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: Neandertal's continue to be a topic of interest. And they're

654
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: just there's always so many there are always so many

655
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: great uh uh, potentially interesting studies that are coming out

656
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: about them. So I'm sure we'll come back to the

657
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: world of the Neanderthals in the future on Stuff to

658
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind. In the meantime, if you want to

659
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: check out other episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind,

660
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: head on over to Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

661
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: You can also find our other show, Invention at invention

662
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: pod dot com. Uh that's our our journey through human

663
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: techno history looking at various inventions. We haven't done one

664
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: on the surfboard, but that's exactly the kind of thing

665
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: we could do because we try, and we've been trying

666
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: to cover a wide variety of inventions, from like major

667
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: recent technologies to ancient invention inventions that are lost to time,

668
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: from you know, from the the advanced and the and

669
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: and the to the simple, from the obvious, uh to

670
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: to the far less obvious. So check out that show

671
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: if you haven't already, and if you want to support

672
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: these shows that we're putting together for you, the best

673
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: thing you can do is tell your friends about us.

674
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: Wherever you get the podcast, rate and review us. Leave

675
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: us some stars in a nice comment that helps us

676
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: out a lot. Huge thanks as always to our excellent

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00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: audio producer, Maya Cole. If you'd like to get in

678
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

679
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: to suggest topic for the future, just to say hello,

680
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

681
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

682
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more

683
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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