1 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Kay Daniel, you're a big science witch and fan. Right. 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, When something new is on Netflix, if it's 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: science fiction, I'll almost always watch the first five minutes, 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: even if it's about a giant's bays banana. Hey, you 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: make that movie, I will watch it. But is that 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: something you watch with your family? Do you? Is your 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: wife into science fiction? Ah, that's a bit of a 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: bone of contention over the remote. I would say her 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: taste are a bit different. She doesn't like science fiction. 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Let's just say she doesn't necessarily choose them for the science. 11 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: They don't need to be correct for her to enjoy them. 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, she's also a scientist, but she's 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: able to suspend disbelief and she finds other things in 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: these movies to make them appealing. Oh yeah, what's her 15 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: favorite science fiction movie? It's kind of embarrassing though, for 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: me as a physicist, because her favorite science fiction movie 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: is called Cold Fusion, which has like so many terrible 18 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: plot holes in it, but the one redeeming feature is 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: that it stars he and leaves wearing a U Chicago sweatshirt, 20 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: which is her alma matter. Hi am poorhand. I'm the 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: creator of PhD comics and the co author of the 22 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: book We Have No Idea, A Guy to the Unknown Universe. Hi, 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and coincidentally, I'm also 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: the co author of the book We Have No Idea, 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: A Guide to the Unknown Universe. What are the chances 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: what you wrote that book to? I mostly wrote it 27 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: together with some guy I was emailing with online. And 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: how did you meet this this man Tinder? It did 29 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: involve the Internet. That's those the only details I'll go into. 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: And involved something else cold, right, you cold emailed me. 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: That's right, just a cold email out into the Internet 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: to look for a creative partner. But welcome to our podcast, 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: Daniel and or Hey Explain the Universe, a production of 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio in which we reach out to you 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: through the various hot and cold tubes of the Internet 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: to try to explain to you all the crazy, all 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: the crazy and amazing things that we find in our 38 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: universe and make them make sense to you. All the 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: amazing processes out there and science and technology and facts 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: that maybe we can use one day to our advantage 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: as a human species. That's right. One goal of physics 42 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: is to understand the world so that we can tame it, right, 43 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: to use it to our advantage, to build new technology, 44 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: to transform what it means to be humans, what it's 45 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: like to live as a human in the modern world, 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: and of course at the core of that is energy. 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: So to be on the program, we'll be talking about 48 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: a technology or I guess the physics concept that could 49 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: potentially solve all of humanity's problems, right, That's how they've 50 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: been selling it since the eighties. Yeah, exactly. It's sort 51 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: of the holy grail of physics. If it works, then 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: everything will change. I mean, imagine if energy was cheap 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: or even free, almost everything that we do in life 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: could be made easier with energy. Yeah. Is there something 55 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: in our knowledge of physics, like and how the animals 56 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: are put together, or the courts, or the particles that 57 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: we could use to solve our energy crisis. It seems 58 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: like it must be. I mean, we live in such 59 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: an energetic universe. We're always talking on this podcast about 60 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: particles going at the speed of light, or enormous huge 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: balls of fire we call the sun, right, or a 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: crazy black holes squishing things and beaming out jets from galaxies. Like, 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: there's so many energetic processes out there. So much energy 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: is just stored in the matter around us. It's still 65 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: it's frustrating to me that we have such difficulty tapping 66 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: into it, that we're you know, digging up buried plants 67 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: and burning them in order to extract the tiny little 68 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: bit of energy that's our best idea so far. It 69 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,839 Speaker 1: seems Yeah, it seems like we should have figured out 70 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: something better by now, given the incredible amounts of energy 71 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: all around us and the huge processes. You know, it's 72 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: like we're, um, we're at a buffet. We're just like 73 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: new building on the crumbs that have fallen off the table. 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: We're filling up on the salad, which is a rookie 75 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: mistake for buffet's exactly if you pay for the buffet, 76 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: goes straight for the main course. Exactly. Yeah. So today 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: we'll be talking about one such technology or piece of 78 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 1: science that could change everything. So today on the program, 79 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: we'll be talking about cold fusion. What is it? Is 80 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: it cold? Or is it? Is that? The name of 81 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: a new sports drink from Gatorade. It's going to be 82 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: the name of a new sports drink once we get 83 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: off this podcast and go pitch it to Mountain Dew 84 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: as part of their Extreme Universe Drink series. Yeah, on 85 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: a bottle of dark energy. Nobody wants a bottle of 86 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: dark matter though, that's not gonna say, but yeah. Cold fusion. 87 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: Cold fusion is a is a topic that's been bouncing 88 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: around in physics for decades and decades, and you know, 89 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: for a long time it was the dream of scientists 90 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: to achieve USUAN without having to build basically the Sun 91 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: in miniature. And then for a while it seemed like 92 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: maybe it was possible. No, maybe it was impossible. Now 93 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: people are saying maybe it's possible again. Yeah, it's been 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: around for a while, right, I remember, I think it 95 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: was a big deal in the seventies and eighties. That's 96 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: when they first thought maybe it could be possible. It 97 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: was in the late eighties when there was a lot 98 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: of media coverage over some experiments that turned out to 99 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: maybe not be a scientifically valid and so people sort 100 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: of gave up. But recently you're saying, there has been 101 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: new things that maybe make people think it is possible. 102 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: There's always another opportunity. You know. This is the thing 103 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: about physics is that something seems impossible, but there's always 104 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: a little window. There's always a little crack. Maybe you 105 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: could figure out if you were clever enough, you could 106 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: be the one to solve this problem. I like to 107 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: fantasize about that. You know that there's like two eras 108 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: in history. There's like before I figured out this incredible 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: problem and after, right, because there are stories like that 110 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: people who have cracked long standing problems or come up 111 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: with some new ideas, some new technology that really did 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: change the way things work. And cold fusion, if you 113 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: could achieve it would be in that category, would change everything. 114 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: Might let us a lift forever as a species, right, 115 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: we could maybe go to other stars with it. Yeah, 116 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: it would basically solve almost every problem. Like you're worried 117 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: about enough fresh drinking water, just use some energy desalinate 118 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: the ocean. You're worried about overheating the planet, use some 119 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: energy to pump C or two out into space. You know, 120 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: everything costs energy in the end, Almost every problem except 121 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: for people being mean to each other, cost energy. Even 122 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: that one actually because in the end, um you know, 123 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: war and and and all those kind of things come 124 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: down to competition for resources. But if energy is free 125 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: or very very plentiful, then there's enough resource to make 126 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: enough food, to dig up enough gold to do almost 127 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: everything you want for everybody. Well, for that you need 128 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: people fusion. That's a different kind of physics altogether. That's 129 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: a not safe for working. So today we'll explain to 130 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: you guys and playing to everyone out there, what is 131 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: cold fusion. But first we were wondering what people know 132 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: about it? How much do they know what it is? Yeah, 133 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: it's one of the topics in science that really did 134 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: leak out into very broad public and for a while 135 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: it seemed like we were on the verge of an 136 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: incredible breakthrough. But then again, that was, you know, thirty 137 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: years ago, and so I was I really didn't know 138 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: whether people had heard of this or had an idea 139 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: whether it was possible. So I went into this with 140 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: an open mind. So, as usual, Daniel went out and 141 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: asked people, random people on the street if they knew 142 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: what cold fusion was. Here's what they had to say. 143 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's doing fusion at lower temperatures. But uh, 144 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard that fusion in general was really 145 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: tough to achieve pressure. I'm not sure on that one. 146 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: Cold fusion I have not no no idea so in 147 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: order to fuse two metals, you have to heat it up. 148 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: But when you're like say, like in a vacuum, like 149 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: in space, that there's like electrons just flowing on it. 150 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: And but in ace, it's uh, like in a vacuum 151 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: like like you don't need the heat, you know, when 152 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: you think out the blood, I guess right, fusion is 153 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: when you take up the blood so cold you just 154 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: do it like frozen animal body or whatever. I don't know, 155 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: I've heard the words. I have no idea what they mean. 156 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: Where would be your best guess? Um, probably something to 157 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: do with producing nuclear energy, right, So a lot of 158 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: nose and a couple of confusions, not cold fusions exactly exactly. 159 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: Some some people had it sort of mentally adjacent to 160 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: other topics. Um, I got a very long explanation of 161 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: how cold welding works. You know, how to learn something 162 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: I did. I didn't know that you could do welding 163 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: in space, right, that you don't necessarily need like oxygen 164 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: and air and and fire to join two pieces of metal. 165 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: So thank you for the mini lecture I received on 166 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: cold welding. And some people thought it meant transfusion like 167 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: a blood transfusion. Yeah, and that you know, hey, they 168 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: freeze blood, right, and then they have thoughts. So that's 169 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: sort of a hold transfusion. It makes some sense, right. 170 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: I'm impressed when people don't have any idea what I'm 171 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: talking about, but sort of on the fly come up 172 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: with something reasonable to say. That's you know, that's creative thinking. 173 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: And to be honest, I didn't really know what it 174 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: was until a couple of years ago I got hired 175 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: to do a comic and a video about Cold Future. Yeah, 176 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: you have an excellent video. There's no shame in not 177 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: knowing what it is. I see, that's the standard. If 178 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: Jore doesn't know about it, then it's acceptable to be ignorant. 179 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: If that's a standard, then everyone, uh is pretty safe 180 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: because I don't I don't really know that much. But 181 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: then everybody needs to have watched every science fiction movie 182 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: ever also, right, Yeah, that's right. So in the opening 183 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: we talked about the movie with canaries called Cold Fusion. 184 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: And you're not a fan of the science in that movie. No, 185 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: I um, I've watched it once decades ago, refused to 186 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: watch it again, but I remember thinking, oh my god, 187 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: that makes no sense. Or they clearly just did that 188 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: so some guy could drive a motorcycle through a bunch 189 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: of explosions. So the plot of the movie is what 190 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: Kenna rees is trying to achieve cold fusion to solve 191 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: all of our energy problems. Yeah, I think Keanu Reeves 192 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: does achieve cold fusion, and then there's a struggle over 193 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: control of it um. But then it basically just you know, 194 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: digresses into a bunch of motorcycles driving through explosions, as 195 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: does every movie, it seems every movie with Kenna Reeves 196 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: in it at least. All right, well, let's get into 197 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: it then, Daniel. So there's two words, your cold and fusion, 198 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: and somehow you've put it together. Then it's a revolutionary concept. 199 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: So what goes through? What is cold fusion? Or let's 200 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: start with fusion. What is fusion? Right? So what is fusion? 201 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: You see fusion every day every day you go outside 202 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: and you bathe yourself in sunlight. You are standing and 203 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: being warmed by the fires of an enormous thermonuclear fusion 204 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: reactor called the sun. Right, So fusion is what happens 205 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: inside the sun. It generates all that heat, which is 206 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: a source of all life on Earth. Right, so thank 207 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 1: you fusion. Without fusion, we would have nothing. And fusion 208 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: very simply is just a way to release energy. You 209 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: take two helium, sorry, you take two hydrogen nuclei, which 210 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: are just protons, and you push them together to make 211 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: a new element. Right, you're transforming hydrogen into helium. You 212 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: push them together, they stick together to make a new 213 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: nucleus with two protons in it. And that helium nucleus 214 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: has less energy in it than the two hydrogens did. 215 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: So what happens is that some energy is released. Are 216 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: you make this and there's some energy left over, but 217 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: you don't need, right, and so it just gets released 218 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 1: in photons and energy. And that's that's burning, right, that's 219 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: the fusion burning. So if I walk outside and I 220 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: get a suntan, that's fusion. You were getting burned by fusion. 221 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: You're fusion toasted. Well, something I never understood was why 222 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: does helium, which is what when you get when you 223 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: merge or fuse to hydrogen atoms, why does the combination 224 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: of them have less energy? That's a great question, you know, 225 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: like what happened to that energy? Why does it? What? 226 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: Do you need less energy to make something that's like 227 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: one plus one. That's a great question, but you're not 228 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: really making one plus one. It's like, um, it's like 229 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: one plus one equals one point nine, right, it's um. 230 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: You're not just taking those two protons and putting them 231 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: next to each other. Those protons are interacting. They're connected, 232 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: right because remember this nucleus um holds itself together like 233 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: acts like one thing. It's not just like two protons 234 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: near each other. They're really they're fused, hence the word 235 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: into one thing. On another episode, we talked about how 236 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: that stays together because remember these are two protons. They're 237 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: positively charged. They should be pushing away from each other. Right, Well, 238 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: there's very strong forces that hold these two protons together, 239 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: involving how the corks connect and and so the mass 240 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: of that nucleus is reflected by the energy of these bonds. 241 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: And so you shouldn't think of it as two hydrogen 242 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: out and you think of it like the corks that 243 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: are inside those hydrogen nuclei being rearranged into a helium nucleus. 244 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: And it's all about that arrangement. You know, how those 245 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: corks are sitting near each other. Yeah, I guess I 246 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: forget that protons are made out of smaller bits, which 247 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: are quarks. And so you're saying that in one hydrogen atom, 248 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: I need a certain amount of energy to keep in 249 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: those quarts together, but once I emerged two hydrogen atoms, 250 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: you need less energy to hold all those little bits together, 251 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: and so there's extra energy. Yeah exactly, it's like there's 252 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: an economy of scale there, right, you can use the 253 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: two they sort of help each other. If you take 254 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: six quarks, it's easier to build a helium nucleus than 255 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: to build two hydrogen nuclei, because then they have to 256 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: be independent, they have to be totally colored neutral, all 257 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: on their own, whereas if you have a helium nucleus, 258 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot more options, a lot of ways. You 259 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: can configure these quarks into two protons that are sort 260 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: of stuck together, but they don't actually kind of the 261 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: two protons don't mush together, right, there's still kind of 262 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: their own thing, but somehow being stuck together helps each 263 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: one of them stay together themselves. Yeah, exactly, they stay 264 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: their own thing, but they're connected right there, talking to 265 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: each other. The way like when a proton and an 266 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: electron come together to make hydrogen, it's still a proton, 267 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: and it's still still an electron, but they've made something else, 268 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: something which is bound together, which acts like one thing 269 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: from the outside. So in the same way, these two 270 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: protons they still are protons, but you know, they're interacting 271 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: with the quarks inside the other protons, and they've come 272 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: together to make this thing which is weirdly less than 273 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: some of their parts. It's kind of like, um, you 274 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: know how they text married couples more because they assume 275 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: there are some efficiencies if you're married, like, oh, you're married, 276 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: now you're too you're together, you have a partnership. You 277 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: must have extra income or extra disposable income or something. 278 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: You can also think of it, like think about the 279 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: proton as like a bunch of corks connected with springs, 280 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: and there's energy in those springs. You have to like 281 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: arrange them in just the right way and put some 282 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: energy in those springs to hold them together. Um, and 283 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: then when you make the helium nuclei, you can like 284 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: reuse one of those springs. You're like, oh, I don't 285 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: need all of these, I can just use this one 286 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: here twice because they overlap, you know, And so I 287 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: have this extra spring which had this your energy in it. 288 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: What do I do with that? Well, that just shoots 289 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: off and so that's that's the basic process of fusion. 290 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: Is pushed two hydrogen nuclei together to make helium plus 291 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: some energy and a spring shoots off. Yeah, that's the energy. 292 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: And you might think what is that spring? Well, you know, 293 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: internal in the nucleus, all this stuff is stored is gluons. 294 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: But when these two hydrogen nuclei fuse, which you get 295 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: is a photon. It shoots out a bunch of energy. Okay, 296 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: So that's what's happening inside of the sun and also 297 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: inside of nuclear bombs, right, nuclear fusion bombs. That's basically 298 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: what's happening is just you're getting a bunch of hydrogen 299 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: squeezed together and having them fuse into hedium. That's right, 300 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: And and that should help you appreciate the scale of this, right, 301 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: Like an enormous thermonuclear explosion, right, a hydrogen bomb. Those 302 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: things are incredibly powerful. They're devastating and kill millions of 303 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: people if you dropped one on the city. All of 304 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: that comes out of a tiny amount of fuel that 305 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: you do not need a huge amount of plutonium to 306 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: have that bomb. And that tells you how energy dense 307 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: matter is. Like, they is so much energy and matter 308 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: that if you're able to release some of it, it's overwhelming. 309 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: It's like it's incredible. And we've talked about this several 310 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: times in the podcast. If you took like a raisin's 311 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,479 Speaker 1: worth of matter and touched into a raisin worth of antimatter, 312 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: and the reason we choose those is because they're very 313 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: easily able to annihilate all their energy, all their matter 314 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: into energy. Then you get a huge nuclear explosion like 315 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: the size of Hiroshima, and so there's a huge amount 316 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: of energy story and matter, and like we were saying before, 317 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: really just often we're scraping just the crumbs off the floor. 318 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: When you burn fossil fuels, it's a huge amount of 319 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: energy in them before and a huge amount of energy 320 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: in them afterwards. You've just taken off a tiny little sliver. 321 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: And so fusion is like this this way to tap 322 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: into this incredibly dense energy source. And that's why it's 323 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: so exciting, because the huge amounts of energy released from 324 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: tiny amounts of fuel. It's kind of like if I 325 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: if I took a raisin and I threw it at 326 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: you that's not a lot of energy. You wouldn't get 327 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: hurt by a raison owned by another person. But if 328 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: I could somehow, like I don't know, you've been working 329 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: out how fast you even? I think even if you 330 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: had a major lea, you have a hundred mile raisin 331 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: picture throw raising at you, it still wouldn't hurt very much. 332 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: But if you somehow I don't know the answer to that, 333 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: a hundred mile an hour raisin, would that hurt you 334 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: if you ate it? Well, maybe the pensant where it 335 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: hits you, you know, if the eyes. But but the 336 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: idea is that, you know, if I threw the raising 337 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: at you, it wouldn't hurt you or carry a lot 338 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: of energy. But if you've somehow was able to like 339 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: break apart the raisin, you know, like break apart not 340 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: just the atoms of the raisin, but the corks inside 341 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: of the atoms of the protons of the raisin, then 342 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: there would be a huge amount of energy, right, yeah, 343 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: exactly that you would not survive that. Yeah, that one 344 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: raisin could power a city, right, I mean we're talking 345 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: about huge quantities of energy, and so that's what fusion is. 346 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: It's this we're trying to tap into this. And it's 347 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: also tantalizing because we see it every day. We see 348 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: it happening out there in the sun. Right, it's omnipresent 349 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: or you can't it escape it, and so we know 350 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: it's happening. It's the universe is primary source of light, 351 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: and so we just want to you know, ride that 352 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: wave and and use it to get the energy we 353 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: need so we can listen to podcasts and make cookies 354 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: and all sorts of fun stuff we like to do 355 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: with our lives. Eat raisins, eat raisins. But you know 356 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: it's not easy, right, those hydrogen atoms they don't like 357 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: to come together. They're both positively charged. So what happens 358 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: when you bring them near each other is they repel, right, 359 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: They resist getting close to each other. So fusion is 360 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: not an easy thing you can just like, here's a 361 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: scoop of protons, go fuse, right, That's why we mostly 362 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: just see them in crazy situations, right, like the center 363 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: of the sun and nuclear bombs. That's usually where fusion 364 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: likes to happen exactly because these protons resist each other 365 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: until they get really really close. Once they get close, 366 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: then this strong nuclear force takes over and they confuse 367 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff happens. But for that 368 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: to happen, they have to get close enough, and it's 369 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, they're repelling each other. So it's like you 370 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: ever try to push two magnets near each other. They're 371 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: like slipping and sliding and going sideways and trying to 372 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: avoid it or impossibly or imagine like trying to get 373 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: a cat into a bucket of water, right. I mean, 374 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting anybody to do that, but mentally imagine 375 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's not easy. It's a cat fusion, feline 376 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: fusion um or or if you ever do like mini golf, 377 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: you know how there's those holes where it's like the 378 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: where you're supposed to get the ball is like at 379 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: the top of a little hill. You think, oh, no 380 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: big deal, I'll just roll to the top of the 381 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: hill and it'll go in. But if you don't roll 382 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: it exactly right, then it rolls off to the side 383 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 1: or it skips over the top. Right. Fusion is like that. 384 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: You've got to get the hydrogen atoms exactly the right speed, 385 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: right at each other for them to get close enough 386 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: to sort of fall in the hole and fuse otherwise 387 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: they'll just deflect and go in other directions. Is it 388 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: kind of like if you take two magnets the positive size, 389 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: and you apply super glue on them and you try 390 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: to stick them together. Like that would be kind of hard, 391 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: but if you do manage to get them to touch 392 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: each other, then and they'll stick together. Probably. I haven't 393 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: done that experiment. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, um, 394 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: you might end up reversing the polarity of one of 395 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: them or something. I'm not even sure what would happen, 396 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: but yeah, exactly if you can get them close enough together. 397 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: And that's what's happening in the sun, right. What is 398 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: the sun. It's a huge blob of hydrogen, but it's 399 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: such a big blob that it has huge gravity, and 400 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: so the gravity is squeezing all these protons together, and 401 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: so there's nowhere else to go, right. They'd like to 402 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: run away from each other. They're pushing against each other, 403 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: but they're like a crowd at some you know, teenage 404 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: rock concert. There's nowhere to go. You're in the middle 405 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: of the mosh pit, so you have to bump up 406 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: against other people. And so that's why fusion happens. In 407 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: the sun because there's so much gravitational pressure that the 408 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: protons can't avoid each other. That's how you get them 409 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: close enough to each other. It's like you need these 410 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: extreme conditions kind of like a and in a bomb, 411 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: that's what happens to right, Like they they use like 412 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: an outer bomb to compress the other the hydrogen, so 413 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: that fuses. Right, that's exactly how these thermonuclear bombs work. Right. 414 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: You have a fission reaction which generates, you know, a 415 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: huge explosion like Hiroshima, and that compresses the fuel you 416 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: need for fusion so that it actually starts to fuse. 417 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: So you have to be basically in the middle of 418 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: the sun or in the middle of an already exploding 419 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: nuclear bomb to make this work. So um, not easy. 420 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: Not a place I would recommend visiting. Yeah, okay, so 421 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: that's fusion, and that's kind of what we usually see 422 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: it as. It's as hot fusion right in the sun 423 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: or in a bomb. So now let's get into cold 424 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: fusion and how that's gonna change everything if they can 425 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: get it to work. But first let's take a quick break. 426 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about cold fusion and how to 427 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: make it. Here on Earth, and we talked about how 428 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of the process that's going on inside of 429 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: suns and nuclear bomb that's right, and that's not typically 430 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: the kind of thing you want in your backyard or 431 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: in your neighborhood where they're generating energy. Right, if somebody says, 432 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: if somebody said, hey, can we put them the sun 433 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: down the street will provide a lot of energy, you'd 434 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: probably say no. You probably say put into my neighbor's yard. 435 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: Depending on how big your yard is, that may not 436 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: be far enough away from the Sun. But essentially what 437 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: scientists are doing to try to have fusion here on 438 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: Earth is recreate those conditions. I mean, in a in 439 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: a bomb, it's sort of a runaway reaction, you have 440 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: all the energy expended all at once. But for a 441 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: fusion react or, what you want is something where it 442 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: slowly expands that energy, where can be sort of controlled 443 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: but still um in terms of like hot fusion. Here 444 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: on Earth, we're basically trying to recreate the conditions of 445 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: the sun or a nuclear bomb. But maybe is it 446 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: the same as the sun, but maybe just in a 447 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: smaller scale like a mini sun. Yeah, you know, if 448 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: physicists think big, like I want to make a star. 449 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: You know, they're basically making a mini sun, and the 450 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: problem is like how do you contain it. Say you 451 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: want to make something fuse and you want to get 452 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: the energy out, Like what do you put it in? Right? 453 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: You can't build it in a glass bottle because it 454 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: will destroy the bottle. You can't build it in a 455 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: steel bottle because it will destroy it. So they actually 456 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: come up with these really cool magnetic bottles because the 457 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: thing about the sun is that all the particles in 458 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: there have electric charges. They're positive or they're negative, right, 459 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: they're all ionized, which means that they can be bent 460 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: by magnetic fields. So if you can get them to 461 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: like sort of go in a circle, like around a 462 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: doughnut shaped magnetic bottle, then maybe they just can just 463 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: sort of spin around forever, banging to each other, making 464 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: fusion and throwing out heat that you can capture without 465 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: ever actually you know, melting the building that you're in, 466 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: and then it's more like an engine where you're slowly 467 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: adding the fuel in instead of just burning the whole 468 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: tank of gas at the same time. The ideas that 469 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: you kind of have like a slow control sun explosion 470 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: that keeps going and keeps making energy for you. That's right. 471 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: The way it would work, as you start out with 472 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: something cold and you have to pour energy and to 473 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: begin with, right, But then once it gets hot enough 474 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: that fusion starts happening. Then the fusion provides enough heat 475 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: to keep things going to start to burn the next 476 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: bit of fuel. It's sort of like adding a log 477 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: to a fire. Right, It's hard to get started, but 478 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: once the fire is burning, you just put another log 479 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: in and the fire itself starts more fire. So that's 480 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: what they call ignition. And a fusion reactor is when 481 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: it gets hot enough that you can just keep adding 482 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: fuel at the right pace and to keep producing enough energy. 483 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: And that's really hard because you have this really hot thing. 484 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: It's like millions of degrees, right, basically like a little 485 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: slice of the sun, millions of Hey, let's spend some 486 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: time talking about temperature poscast episode about who's the hottest 487 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: person in the universe. So, so they're trying to do 488 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: this on Earth, right, you said, magnetic bottle is one way, uh, 489 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: and and it's a hard problem because you have to 490 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: contain this kind of explosion that's a million degrees in temperature, right, yeah, 491 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: exactly have to manage it. And they've made it work 492 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: in smaller scales, they've actually gotten energy out of the 493 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: fusion reactor, and in some cases they've even gotten more 494 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: energy out than they put in, which is nice um. 495 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: And what they're doing now is they're building sort of 496 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: a larger scale version to see if you can work 497 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: on a commerce for commercial scale, like can you actually 498 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: produce enough energy that you could like sell it and 499 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: you can convince a power company to spend a billion 500 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: dollars building this thing and and and run a business 501 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: out of it. And that's called They have really cool 502 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: names for these projects, right, Like you like the names. 503 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's quite a standard. I don't think 504 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: I've ever heard you said that before. Well, I like 505 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: it to say, as a kind of an anime flavor twit. Right, 506 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 1: it's called like a tacomac. Right, that's one name. Yeah, 507 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: that comes I think it's a comes from like a 508 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: conglomeration of Russian words because the Russians were the first 509 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: people to do that, and it comes from it. It's 510 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: a toroid, which is like the geometrical name for a 511 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: donut um. Yeah, it tookomac exactly, And yeah, it sounds 512 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: like a you know, like a giant Japanese enemy robot 513 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: that those movies don't always end very well though, so 514 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but the wisdom of naming your massive 515 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: sun creating experiment after an anime movie. But a good robot, 516 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, right, okay, it's a friendly, helpful robot. 517 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: It's going to come and solve all your energy problems. Um. 518 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: But the one they're building is called Eater I T. 519 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: E R. And they're building it in France, and it's 520 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: supposed to be done, you know, sometime in the next 521 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: it's always ten years away, it seems. And that one 522 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: might actually work, you know, it costs ten billion dollars, 523 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: but it might actually work. But again, that's hot fusion, right, 524 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: that's like really hard. It's a huge facility, costs billions 525 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: of dollars. It's very difficult, but also a good name. 526 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I support anything related to eating 527 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: as long as it doesn't eat the planet, right. Yeah. Yeah, 528 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of a not a great foreboding name. That's 529 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: gonna eat up the world. Maybe we'll solve all of 530 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: our eating problems, you know, the sort of problem. But 531 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: I heard it's like the biggest science experiment ever. Right, 532 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: it's like even more expensive than the one it's earned 533 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: a large Hattern collider. Is that true? I know. Yeah, 534 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: it's gonna eclipse the Large hage On Collider to be 535 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: the biggest, most expensive science experiment ever. It might even 536 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: be more expensive than the International Space Station. So yeah, 537 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: that's pretty awesome. But it's also ambitious, you know. I 538 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: love when people try to do monumental great works. That's 539 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: really awesome because it's not the kind of thing one 540 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: person can do or two people can do. It's the 541 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of thing we can only do when we come 542 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: together as a species and put our brains to something 543 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: and say, let's make the world a better place by 544 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 1: spending a lot of money on physics. That's all eat together, 545 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: so we'll call it eater. Yeah, exactly. Um. And then 546 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: there's another way people are trying to do like hot 547 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: fusion here on Earth, and that's saying, let's not try 548 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: to have a continuous fire, you know, where you have 549 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: this like fire that burns and and and generates itself 550 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: like a minisan inside of a magnetic bottle. That that's 551 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: the tocomac and the eater, But this is a different 552 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: There's another approach, which is like let's sort of have 553 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: like a bunch of one off fusions. So what they 554 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: do is they take a bit of fuel and they 555 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: zap it with lasers from like every direction simultaneously, like 556 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: a nineties six super powerful lasers zapp it, and they 557 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: hope that they get it hot enough that it confused 558 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: before it explodes. When it fuses before it explodes, what 559 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: does that mean. It means that, like the explosion takes 560 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: a while to happen, and so if you can get 561 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: it hot enough to get these these hydrogen nuclear hot enough, 562 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: then they will fuse because they haven't yet had time 563 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: to explode, like that it's gonna explode. But they call 564 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: this strategy inertial confinement fusion because it's just like you're 565 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: trying to get it to happen fast enough so that 566 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: inertia keeps it together for long enough for the diffuse 567 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: before it explodes. But then you know, it blows up 568 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: and you get another pellet us app that one with 569 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: lasers that one blows up. That's the strategy. That one's 570 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: kind of like, um, like you're instead of having a 571 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: minisun it's like you're stringing a sun out into a 572 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: little tiny thread, right, and you're right. Instead of having 573 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: like one fire going on, you string it along and 574 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: you you burn little bits at the time. Yeah, exactly. 575 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: It also seems the most science fiction. I mean, you're 576 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: like hundred nineties super lasers focusing on something all at once. 577 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: And there's a big facility in California called the National 578 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: Ignition Facility that's trying to do this. I've been there 579 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: and actually, you know, if any of you have watched 580 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: one of the Star Trek movies, you know, the new 581 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: ones with all the lens flares, then you have seen 582 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: this experiment because I think they used they filmed, or 583 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: they replicated it or something. When Scotty see the engine 584 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: saying she kind of take anymore, Captain, I think that's 585 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: basically either model or the actual thing that they filmed 586 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: it in. Oh cool, Well, it's also a cool sounding phrase, 587 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: National Cognition Facility. That's well named. So is it as 588 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: as good as she cannot take anymore cutting? It's as 589 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: good as your Scottish accent is? Yes, maybe we should 590 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: have some of our Scottish listener is write in and 591 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: rates Jorge Scottish accent. There you go, and also eater 592 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: and but all those are what we call hot fusion. 593 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: That's sort of trying to replicate the Sun's strategy, get 594 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of hot hydrogen together and hope it fuses. 595 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: But those are hard, right, building a lasers or making 596 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: a magnetic bottle for something that's thirty million degrees. Wouldn't 597 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,719 Speaker 1: it be awesome if you could do fusion at room temperature? Right, 598 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: you didn't need all this crazy apparatus. What if you 599 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: could have cold fusion? Exactly? Did I just come up 600 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: with that? Yes? Or hey, yes, I've never heard that 601 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: phrase before. Congratulations, that was brilliant. Humans are trying to 602 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: make fusion here on Earth, but they're both hot fusion strategies, 603 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: basically mini sons. And you're saying, there might be a 604 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: way to do this cold without like millions of degrees 605 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: or giant lasers or enemy robot names. There might be 606 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: something easier, exactly, And that's tantalizing. That's the promise of 607 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: old fusion. All right, let's get into it, but first 608 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Alright, So finally we're going 609 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: to get into cold fusion. Daniels, So We've talked about 610 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: fusion and hot fusion and hot yoga, and now it's 611 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: different than than the hot yoga. It's sort of but 612 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: now the idea is that we can maybe create a sun, 613 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: but do it in a cold way where it's not 614 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: burning or at millions of degrees. Yeah. The idea is, 615 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: can we get too hydrogen nuclei to get close enough 616 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: together to turn into helium and release their energy without 617 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: having to get the hydrogen so hot? Right, we don't 618 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: want to create the sun, but we do want to 619 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: extract that energy. So the problem, remember, is how to 620 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: get the hydrogen close together. If you can just get 621 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: them close enough together, they will fuse, but they repel 622 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: each other. So you need something to get them close together. 623 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: And the basic strategy of hot fusion is making you know, 624 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure and a lot of temperature and 625 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: these things will go really fast. Another way is to 626 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: try to get the hygen closer together without heating it up. 627 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: And it turns out that hydrogen likes to get sucked 628 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: into this special kind of crystal. It's called palladium. It's 629 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: a metal, and hydrogen iss really fits really well into 630 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: the gaps between the palladium molecules and and and palladium 631 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: sort of squeezes hygen together like packs. It's in the 632 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: hydrogen in there, and the hydrogen gets much much closer 633 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: in palladium than it will without the palladium. So you're saying, 634 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: use something like a crystal to pack them in closer. 635 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: But what But they're not going to explode yet. They're 636 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: not gonna explode yet. But but you're you're most of 637 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: the way there. You know. It's imagine it's like a 638 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: big hotel room with really really tiny rooms, right, and 639 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: everybody's in their own little room, and they don't yet 640 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: notice that there's somebody next door that they really don't 641 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: like that they want to run away from, because remember, 642 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: hydrogen repels itself and so now, but you've gotten them 643 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: really close together, so you have this opportunity for them 644 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: to fuse. Yeah, you've got a bunch of people in 645 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: a hotel, uh with tightly packed rooms. What could possibly 646 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: happen while you're you're looking for an explosive situation? Right, 647 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: you just have to persuade all these people to get 648 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: together if you want something interesting to happen. That's one 649 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: way to do it. Put a bunch of people in 650 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: a hotel, a bunch of people who hate each other 651 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: into tiny little hotel rooms next to each other exactly. Um. 652 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: And then you apply a little bit of energy, right, 653 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: and the idea is you probably just enough energy and 654 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: maybe the hydrogens will fuse into helium because you've already 655 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: gotten them so close together that maybe they'll like you know, 656 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: pop out of their little rooms and fuse because they're 657 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: near each other. That was the idea, like maybe little jostle, 658 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: jostle around and accidentally bumping to each other. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 659 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: All you have to do is get the hydrogen close 660 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: enough together, so it's not a terrible idea. And then 661 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: in nine these two guys in Utah, Ponds and Fleishman, 662 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: they set up an experiment to try this, and they 663 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: claim aimed that more energy came out of the experiment 664 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: than they put in. Right, you have to put it 665 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: a little bit of energy, a little bit of electrical 666 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: energy to sort of get these hydrogens out of the 667 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: cells that you've crammed them in. And they claimed that 668 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: they saw a huge amount of energy come out of 669 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,879 Speaker 1: their experiment. So they did that. They put a bunch 670 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: of hydrogen inside of a pollatium crystal and then you 671 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: should They just put it over a fire and they 672 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: noticed it was getting harder than it should have been. Yeah, 673 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: they put a bunch of hydrogen inside this palladium and 674 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: then they put it inside a bath of heavy water 675 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: and they put um electrodes in it, which released, which 676 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: broke up the heavy water, so you get deterium. Deterium 677 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: banged in the hydrogen, and hydrogen came out of the cells. 678 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: And what they were hoping for was that the hydrogen 679 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: would fuse with the deterium, which is just a heavier 680 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: version of hydrogen, would fuse and they would get a 681 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: huge amount of energy. And it's all in a water bath. 682 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: So what they were doing was just measuring the temperature 683 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: of the water and they claimed to have a huge 684 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: amount of unexplainable amount of energy, unexplainable by any way 685 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: other than and cold fusion. And remember they didn't build 686 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: a huge reactor. There's just like something sitting on a tabletop. 687 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: The whole thing costs, you know, tens of thousands of 688 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: dollars to build. You didn't need a magnetic bottle, you 689 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: didn't need a hundred nine lasers. It was cheap, but 690 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: it's good. Somehow they claimed extract all this energy from 691 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: the nucleus of the atoms, and of course they got 692 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: a huge amount of publicity. Was like on the cover 693 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: of magazines, and everybody thought, this is the energy revolution. 694 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: But but then nobody could reproduce it. You know, people 695 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: were excited, and people in Japan and people in Texas 696 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: and people in Boston, all sorts of folks try to 697 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: reproduce this experiment because it seemed pretty simple. And at first, 698 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: you know, some groups said, oh yeah, we see a 699 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: little of this, always see a little bit of that. 700 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: But it was all done sort of a little too quickly, 701 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: and you know, everybody was excited to be the second 702 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 1: people to to make cold Frusian work, or the third 703 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: person to make cold fusion work. People really wanted to 704 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: believe it, and so there was a lot of signs 705 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: done that wasn't really like up to the standard that 706 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: you would backed. And in the end, when the dust cleared, 707 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: it only took a few months, but people realized nobody 708 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: could reproduce their result, and then they started getting not 709 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: even the first people who did it, they couldn't do 710 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: it again. Well, they claimed to have done it again, right, 711 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: and they wanted more money to ask the government for 712 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: millions of dollars to fund a larger experiment, but they 713 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 1: never let people like examine their apparatus, and the results 714 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: didn't make sense, and they wouldn't answer questions about it 715 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: um And so that's not suspicious scientific behavior at all, 716 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: I know, I know. And so it became a sort 717 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: of an embarrassment, you know, um to the physics community, like, 718 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we got all this attention from the 719 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: media and from the public, and people got excited about 720 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: this possibility. Then it turns out it was just shoddy experiments, 721 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: and later people discovered that probably they did get a 722 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: little bit of extra heat out of their reaction, but 723 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: it was just a normal chemical reaction like hydrogen oxygen 724 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: coming back together to make water releases some heat. So 725 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: they weren't getting any nuclear fusion at all. They weren't 726 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: get nearly as much energy as you would get you 727 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: actually had nuclear fusion, And if they had, their whole 728 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: thing would have exploded right there. They had released enough 729 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: energy if they had actually achieved fusion, it would have 730 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: demolished their building. So but did they actually you know, 731 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: pretend on purpose, or were they also fooled themselves. That's 732 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: a great question, and I'd love to see an in 733 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: depth interview by like a really hard interviewer. But they 734 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: famously clammed up after they were shown to be basically frauds. Um, 735 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: and they insisted that what they had done was right, 736 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: but they never really gave enough details for anybody to 737 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: validate it or to understand whether they were outright lying 738 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: or just sort of overly hopeful and confused by their results. 739 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, you want to on one hand, 740 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: try to be generous in your interpretation and think, oh, 741 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 1: they just got wrapped up in the excitement of their 742 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: potential discovery and skipped a few steps. On the other hand, um, 743 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: you know, maybe they were Maybe there were frauds. So 744 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: so that particular idea for cold fusion didn't seem to 745 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: have work. But does that mean that's that it's impossible, 746 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: or that that idea can never work, or that do 747 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: you think there are other ideas out there for cold 748 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: fusion that could work. It's definitely not impossible, right, somebody 749 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: could make it work. There's probably a way for it 750 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: to happen. The problem is, once a field has such 751 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: an embarrassing public implosion, like that nobody wants to work 752 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: on it. Like you don't see young smart people saying 753 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to go into the field of cold fusion 754 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: because it's a laughing stock. So currently it became synonymous 755 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: with like confusion, confusion, confusion, Keanu Reeves exactly, like bad 756 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: became synonymous with bad signs. I mean, like nobody wants 757 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 1: to be a cold fusion physicist anymore. Exactly, Um, but 758 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it's not possible. Those guys sort of 759 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 1: ruined for everybody. It may it may not be practical, 760 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: but you know, there might be a way to do it, 761 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: And there are some other ideas, and there are some 762 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: things that people have sort of made work, Like they've 763 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: tried this idea with muans. If you take hydrogen and 764 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: instead of having electrons going around the nucleus, if you 765 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: have muans going around the nucleus. Remember, muans are just 766 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: heavier versions of electrons. What happens is the muans they're 767 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: sort of orbit is much smaller than the electrons orbit 768 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: because muans are heavier. And what this means is that 769 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: it lets the hydrogens get closer together and so that 770 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 1: can make fusion happen. Well, I think you guys just 771 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: have a branding problem again, you know, like you just 772 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: call it something else and then have people work work 773 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 1: on it. Extreme fusion, no tepid fusion maybe, or warm fusion. 774 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna get excited about something named tepid. It's like 775 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: limp fusion, yeah, or not so hot fusion, you know, 776 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: just that it's not as embarrassing cryo fusion, fusion, oh 777 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: my god, nano fusion. Just call it nan know something. 778 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: So I like to believe that it's still possible. First 779 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: of all, I hope that they get hot fusion to work. 780 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: That would be awesome, but I'd love to believe the 781 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: cold fusion as possible. Um. You know, none of the 782 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: experiments out there are practical. This muan idea does work, 783 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: but it's very difficult to make muans and to make 784 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: it happen, so it's not energetically practical. But I'd like 785 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: to believe that somewhere out there is somebody with a 786 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: really clever idea that could actually make this work and 787 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: could really revolutionize the way energy is produced. Yeah, it 788 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: could be. It could. Then you could have like a 789 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: fusion reactor in your home right or your car and 790 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: your DeLorean like they did then back to the future. Yeah, 791 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: or you could have you could even miniaturize it, you know, 792 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: you could have your iPhone could uh, you know, you 793 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: could just add a drop of water and you could 794 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: run for days or weeks. Right, it would be incredible 795 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: what could be achieved if we had cold fusion, if 796 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: we had small, compact, non dangerous sources of energy that 797 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: were ubiquitous that just a water is fuel. That would 798 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: be amazing. Yeah, So to those of you who are listening, 799 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: there's a whole field out there open in physics for 800 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: you to maybe be the next great inventor, as long 801 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: as you call it something else else cry fusion. All 802 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: the smart people have run away from it, so the 803 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: ground is very fertile for you to make some breakthrough. Yeah, 804 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: you could change the world or the universe or the 805 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: future of humanity. And if you do, you know, give 806 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: us some credit or at least one percent of your profits. 807 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: And if you're lying in a fraud, don't mention us 808 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: at all, that's right, we will not. We will claim 809 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: to know nothing about your research. We'll think you were 810 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: talking about cold yoga or our new energy drink line, 811 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: dark energy and cold fusion. All right, well, we hope 812 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed that and learn a little bit more 813 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: about this interesting Candarese movie, I mean idea. Thanks for 814 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: tuning in, and if you have questions about how things 815 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: do or do not work, please send them to us 816 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: at Questions at Daniel and Horney dot com. We love 817 00:41:51,120 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: hearing from you. See you next time. Before you still 818 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: have a question after listening to all these explanations, please 819 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you. 820 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at 821 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,919 Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge That's one word, or email us at 822 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: Feedback at Daniel and Jorge dot com. Thanks for listening 823 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is 824 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from 825 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 826 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.