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Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day two hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty three since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Today's main story. One of Joe Biden's first acts as

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Speaker 1: president elect was to announce a COVID nineteen advisory Board,

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Speaker 1: putting the fight against the pandemic front and center in

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Speaker 1: his presidential plans. Today, a member of that advisory board

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Speaker 1: talks to us about how a Biden White House plans

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Speaker 1: to overhaul the government's coronavirus response. But first, here's what

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Speaker 1: happened in virus news today. The UK became the first

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Speaker 1: Western country to approve a fully vetted COVID nineteen vaccine.

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Speaker 1: The region's regulator cleared FIGHTSER and bio En text shot

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Speaker 1: this week, sooner than the US and the European Union.

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Speaker 1: The emergency authorization clears the way for the deployment of

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Speaker 1: a vaccine that Fightser and its German partner have said

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Speaker 1: iscent effective in preventing illness. The shot will be available

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Speaker 1: in Britain starting next week. INTERPOL issued a global warning

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Speaker 1: to law enforcement that organized crime will target COVID nineteen vaccines.

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Speaker 1: The International Crime Fighting organizations that authority should expect an

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Speaker 1: onslaught of all types of criminal activity linked to the shot.

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Speaker 1: Interpol said some criminals have already begun advertising, selling and

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Speaker 1: administering fake vaccines. They added that ensuring the safety of

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Speaker 1: the supply chain and identifying illicit websites offering fake products

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Speaker 1: will essential. Finally, the World Health Organization has updated its

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Speaker 1: guidance on wearing masks. People should wear masks indoors and

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Speaker 1: outdoors where physical distancing of at least one meter can't

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Speaker 1: be maintained. The organization said that's especially true in areas

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Speaker 1: with community or cluster transmission. At home, people should wear

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Speaker 1: a mask when receiving visitors in case of crowding or

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Speaker 1: poor ventilation. The WHO recommended against wearing a mask during

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Speaker 1: vigorous workouts, as well as against the use of valved masks.

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Speaker 1: Face shields provide a level of eye protection only in

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Speaker 1: our inferior to masks when it comes to droplet transmission

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Speaker 1: and prevention. And now for today's main story, Tackling the

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Speaker 1: surging Corona virus outbreak in the US is priority number

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Speaker 1: one for President elect Joe Biden and Vice President elect

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris. Last month, by named a thirteen member team

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Speaker 1: of doctors and scientists who will advise the new administration

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Speaker 1: in responding to the pandemic. Dr Selene Gownder, an infectious

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Speaker 1: disease physician and epidemialogist, is one of those doctors. Jordan

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Speaker 1: Gospore spoke with Dr Gownder about the makeup of this

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen Advisory Board and how a Biden White House

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Speaker 1: will approach the pandemic very differently from the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: What is the difference between the advisory board that you

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Speaker 1: sit on and the Coronavirus Task Force team? Is there

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Speaker 1: a difference between those two designations. Yeah, So it's really

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Speaker 1: interesting you ask that, because I actually had to ask

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Speaker 1: for some clarification around some of this language myself. So

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Speaker 1: you have the current White House Coronavirus Task Force, which

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Speaker 1: has led by Vice President Mike Pence. We're all familiar

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Speaker 1: with many of the members, which include Dr Deborah Brooks,

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Speaker 1: Dr Tony Faucci, Dr Robert Redfield, Dr Jerome Adams, and others.

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Speaker 1: So that is the current administration task force. Then you

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Speaker 1: have the Biden Harris Transition Team, which has actually been

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Speaker 1: working on these issues for months now, even before the election.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have to really develop your policy and

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Speaker 1: plans well in advance so that you are ready if

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Speaker 1: you are elected. And so there's a very deep bench

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Speaker 1: of scientists and doctors and public health and policy experts

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Speaker 1: who have been working on these issues for months, and

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Speaker 1: that's the transition team. Then you have the Advisory Board,

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Speaker 1: which was recently named, which I suppose you could say

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Speaker 1: sort of the counterpart to the task force. But I

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Speaker 1: think part of the reason for calling it the Advisory

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Speaker 1: Board is that our job really is to provide advice

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Speaker 1: to the Biden Harrassed transition team and to the President

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Speaker 1: elect and vice president elect, and to function as sort

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Speaker 1: of a second set of eyes on the plans that

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Speaker 1: the transition team has been developing, to be thinking creatively,

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Speaker 1: to be thinking big and providing our feedback, and then

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Speaker 1: also to function as something of a liaison between the

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Speaker 1: transition team and the public that could be in the

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Speaker 1: form of interviews like this, and then also to help

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Speaker 1: liaise if we're asked. And then there's a need to

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Speaker 1: liaise with state and local officials, including governors and public

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Speaker 1: health officials, as well as with the private sector. So

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Speaker 1: that could be with the vaccine companies or with the

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Speaker 1: retail pharmacy chains who are going to be really important

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Speaker 1: with distribution of vaccines. So we function as sort of

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Speaker 1: a layer on top of the transition team. You could say,

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Speaker 1: what role will the CDC and the World Health Organization

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Speaker 1: play in this task force? You're going to see the

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Speaker 1: establishment of a new task force under the new administration,

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Speaker 1: and there will no doubt be representation from the CDC,

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Speaker 1: including whoever is the the director of the CDC at

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Speaker 1: that time. We are planning to re establish normal relations

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Speaker 1: with the World Health Organization. That's you know, really a

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Speaker 1: return to normalcy. They will not be on the task

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Speaker 1: force per se. They are not now, but you will

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Speaker 1: see a normalization of relationship with the World Health Organization

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Speaker 1: moving forward. What will be considered an essential service once

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Speaker 1: Biden is in office in January. I think the way

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Speaker 1: to think about what is a frontline or essential worker is,

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Speaker 1: first of all, what are jobs that can only be

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Speaker 1: done in person? And what are services we really cannot

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Speaker 1: live without? So we can't live without food, we can't

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Speaker 1: live with our prescription medicines, and you know, some basic

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Speaker 1: hygienic supplies and schools really are important, not just for

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Speaker 1: the education in an academic way, but also for the

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Speaker 1: social and emotional supports that they provide, the social work

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Speaker 1: supports that they provide, and schools are also a really

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Speaker 1: important provider of food to kids. Unfortunately, many children in

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Speaker 1: this country live in poverty, and so that is an

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Speaker 1: essential service that schools are also providing. I found a

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Speaker 1: lot of of the interviews that you've done, um, the

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Speaker 1: things that you've said around how the task Force is

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Speaker 1: going to help communities that are unequipped to deal with

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Speaker 1: outbreaks very fascinating, specifically with Indigenous populations and Rule populations,

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Speaker 1: and so wanting to to pick your brain a little

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Speaker 1: bit here about how the task Force is planning to

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Speaker 1: help those communities, in particular Rule and Indigenous populations. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that has to start with how you collect

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Speaker 1: your data, because you can't address disparity without knowing that

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Speaker 1: there is a disparity, the nature of the disparity, you know.

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Speaker 1: One common problem with indigenous populations is that they're often

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Speaker 1: misclassified in terms of their race and ethnicity. This is

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Speaker 1: something as somebody who's a brown person I have experienced myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm not indigenous, but I am a I guess you

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Speaker 1: could say, non specific looking brown person, and in this country,

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Speaker 1: that means you generally get classified as Hispanic. My dermatologist

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Speaker 1: here in New York City classified me as Hispanic, and

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Speaker 1: I am not Hispanic in the medical record. And so

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Speaker 1: the problem with that is if an indigenous person gets misclassified,

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Speaker 1: you're not actually able to properly assess and study what

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Speaker 1: the risks and outcomes and so on are in that population.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really important starting point, is just getting

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Speaker 1: the data right. You know, another issue that we've seen

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Speaker 1: with communities of color, and this is really throughout the country,

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Speaker 1: including in urban areas as well. We've seen fewer number

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Speaker 1: of coronavirus testing sites in poorer communities of color than

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Speaker 1: in wider, wealthier communities, which means that it's a lot

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Speaker 1: easier to get tested if you live in a white,

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Speaker 1: wealthy community then in a community of color. The lines

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Speaker 1: have been longer at testing facilities and communities of color.

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Speaker 1: And if you're being paid by the hour on your

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Speaker 1: your job, if you're a wage worker, that means every minute,

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Speaker 1: every hour that you're standing in line is also income lost.

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Speaker 1: So you know, this is something that really does need

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Speaker 1: to be addressed. We need to be decentralizing as much

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Speaker 1: as possible some of these services, especially to communities that

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Speaker 1: are underserved, whether that's a community of color in urban

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Speaker 1: areas or out to rural areas. Will there be an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for free testing once Biden gets into office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think free testing free vaccination are both very high priorities.

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Speaker 1: The current administration had promised free testing and access to

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Speaker 1: testing to every American who wanted testing, and that simply

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Speaker 1: has not been the case because it's not just the

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Speaker 1: cost of the test, it's also the cost of everything

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Speaker 1: that goes into providing somebody with a test. So that's

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Speaker 1: the collection of the specimen, the swabs, the nurse time,

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Speaker 1: the doctor's office visit, or hospital visit, and so a

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Speaker 1: lot of people got surprise bills for their coronavirus tests

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Speaker 1: as a result of that, and that is something we

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Speaker 1: really want to make sure does not happen. That all

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Speaker 1: of those costs are covered, whether that's for a test

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Speaker 1: or for a vaccination. And so my final question is

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Speaker 1: around mandatory mask squaring. How will the Task Force implement

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Speaker 1: mandatory mask wearing? It is this is something that's still

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Speaker 1: being discussed. Yeah, I think there is going to be

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Speaker 1: conversation with the states, with the governors around MASK mandates

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Speaker 1: at the state level. But I think big picture, the

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Speaker 1: most important thing is to try to get people to

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Speaker 1: do the right thing on their own. I think people,

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Speaker 1: especially in the United States, really don't like to be

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Speaker 1: told what to do, and that's the honest Enforcement of

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Speaker 1: a mandate is going to be a challenge, and so

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Speaker 1: to really have people understand, look, mass or effective, they're cheap,

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Speaker 1: they don't shut down the economy. If what you care

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Speaker 1: about is keeping the economy open, this is one of

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Speaker 1: the most important things you can do right now. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention that it will save many lives. This is

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Speaker 1: you know, the politicization of mass is like politicizing toilet paper.

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Speaker 1: You know this idea that based on your political party,

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Speaker 1: you would or would not use toilet paper. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a basic hygienic measure. And so we just

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Speaker 1: need to to reframe our thinking about it and understand that,

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Speaker 1: you know, big picture, this is not a hugely burdensome

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Speaker 1: thing that can have tremendous impact. How would you get

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Speaker 1: someone in these these communities too that are refusing to

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Speaker 1: wear masks? I mean, would you need to implement a

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Speaker 1: fine or some sort of punishment. I mean the the

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Speaker 1: challenges of course enforcement again, and that you're going to

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Speaker 1: have to have local law enforcement agreeing to work with

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Speaker 1: you on that. I'm not sure that local law enforcement

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Speaker 1: would work with you on that. So in general, I

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Speaker 1: prefer the carrot versus the stick approach. I think it

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Speaker 1: makes behaviors stickier and more acceptable. And I think the

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Speaker 1: couple of things I would suggest in terms of how

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Speaker 1: to achieve behavior change, The fact is, if you look

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Speaker 1: at the most recent surveys, over nine of Americans are

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Speaker 1: now wearing masks. They may not be doing it perfectly,

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Speaker 1: they may not be doing it all the time, but

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of Americans are doing this, and it's

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Speaker 1: really small pockets a very strong resistance to this where

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Speaker 1: you're not seeing that. And so I think one to

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Speaker 1: say this is becoming a social norm. I think it's

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Speaker 1: helpful people tend to behave based on what is the

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Speaker 1: behavior around them. I think another thing you can do

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Speaker 1: is in a more personal situation, like say you're in

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Speaker 1: line at the grocery checkout and somebody is not wearing

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Speaker 1: a mask. I think it would be helpful for all

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Speaker 1: of us to have mass on us extra ones, and

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you reach out to them and you say, hey,

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Speaker 1: here's the here's you know, you seem like a carrying

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Speaker 1: kind in person. Would you be willing to wear this

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Speaker 1: mask to protect me? Because what you're doing there is

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Speaker 1: you're framing, you're labeling them as a something positive, and

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Speaker 1: then you're giving them the opportunity to live up to

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Speaker 1: that and reinforce that positive label. So I think that's also,

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Speaker 1: you know, depending on the situation, something else you can try.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, I think we need to be reaching

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Speaker 1: out to local leaders, community leaders in these pockets of resistance,

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Speaker 1: and they should really be the ones leading the charge

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Speaker 1: on this. And so you really need to be working

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Speaker 1: in collaboration with people from the community, identifying those who

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Speaker 1: might be at least somewhat sympathetic, educating them, providing them

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Speaker 1: with the science, empowering them to be the leader on

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Speaker 1: this issue in their community, and then let them really

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Speaker 1: run with it because they're the ones that are more

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Speaker 1: likely to be trusted on this. That was Jordan Gaspoure

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Speaker 1: in conversation with Dr Selene Gownder, and that's it for

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Speaker 1: our show today. For coverage of the outbreak from one

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Speaker 1: and twenty bureaus around the world. Visit Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: slash Coronavirus, and if you like the show, please leave

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Speaker 1: us a review and a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Speaker 1: It's the best way to help more listeners find our

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Speaker 1: global reporting. The Prognosis Daily edition is produced by Topha

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Speaker 1: foreheads Jordan Gaspoore, Magnus Henriksen, and me Laura Carlson. Today's

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Speaker 1: main story was reported by Jordan Gaspore. Original music by

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Speaker 1: Leo Sidran. Our editors are Rick Shine and Francesca Levi.

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Speaker 1: Francesco Levi is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: Let