1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. Doctor Mark 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Hewett with us DBA is a true crime of author 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: who travels the world in his quest for intriguing, unanswered 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: questions and enduring mysteries. Mark earned his master's degrees from 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: Calvin Theological Seminary and the University of Phoenix and a 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: doctorate from California Coast University with California inmate Guillermo E. Mendez. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: He is the co author of Charles Manson Behind Bars 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: and the first Manson book From the Inside. He wrote 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: the critically acclaimed Zodiac serial killer trilogy, Hunted the Zodiac, Murders, 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Profiled the Zodiac, Examined and exposed the Zodiac, Revealed which 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: we are talking about tonight. Mark, Welcome to the program. 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: Great to have you with us. It's an honor to 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: speak with you, George. Thank you for having me on 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: your show. What DBA normally in business means doing business 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: as right after your name is that That is no, 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: it is not. It stands for Doctor of Business Administration. 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: All right. I love that we're going to talk about 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: the Zodiac. We'll talk about Ted Kaczynski. We'll talk about 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: the tie in that you have gotten together, but let's 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the Zodiac Killer. For a while. 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: It has gone unsolved. It happened in the sixties. What 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: do you what can you tell us about the Zodiac Killer? Mark? Well, 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: to me, it's one of the greatest stories I've ever encountered. 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: It's a mystery on so many levels. It's not only 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: an unsolved serial killing case, but there are many side 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: issues within the case that are continuing to be debated 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: to this day. It's one thing to not catch a 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: killer and not know who's responsible for this series of events, 30 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: but it's it's even more fascinating to discuss a number 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: of cases beforehand, before the canonical five murders, and after 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: the canonical five murders, whether or not the Zodiac was 33 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: involved with those, and various aspects of the case within 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: those five differences of opinions, but also differences of facts. 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: People involved in the case remember things differently, and they 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: have differing accounts of what took place, So you know, 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: what is the actual series of events, how exactly did 38 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: they take place? To me, that's very fascinating. They blame 39 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: five murders on the Zodiac Killer, Yet the Zodiac claimed 40 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: in letters to newspapers that he killed thirty seven people. 41 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: Do you think it's somewhere in between? Almost certainly that 42 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: number thirty seven is running up the telly trying to 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: invoke more fear among the citizens of the Bay area. 44 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: I am firmly convinced at least one of there is 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: one prior to the canonical five that was the zodiacs, 46 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: and a number of that he has made reference to 47 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: have not been solved. So we have to say, why 48 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: haven't they been solved? Maybe he was involved in them. 49 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Only one person, only one suspect, was ever publicly named. 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: His name is Arthur Lee Allen, a former elementary school 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: teacher convicted sex offender, but he died in nineteen ninety two. 52 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: Have you ruled him out too? I have. It's no 53 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: wonder that the place took a very close look at him, 54 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: because there were a number of eerie coincidences that made 55 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: him look like a good suspect. The problem is, if 56 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: you dig into each one of those so called coincidences, 57 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: you realize that it may be nothing more than a coincidence, 58 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: and that he was not involved in them. A lot 59 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: of people have made Arthur Lee Allen out to be 60 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: this big, larger than life, scary villain and said, you know, 61 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: because he's large and scary, that makes him a serial color. 62 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: But what always happens when we catch a serial killer, 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: as all the neighbors say, well, he was such a 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: quiet person. We never suspected anything of him. We would 65 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: never believe that he would be involved in anything like that. 66 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: And yet every time there's an unidentified serial killer, people 67 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: start looking for somebody who's big and scary. What got 68 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: me off the Arthur Lee Allen case was the temperament 69 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: and the mode of interacting with the world. Arthur Leallen 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: was an attention seeking individual that he would walk into 71 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: the room and he would get attention one way or 72 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: the other. If he couldn't get an attention by being 73 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: by doing something positive, he would do something negative or 74 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: threatening or outrageous or inappropriate. He was very good at 75 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: getting attention. Somebody like that does not need to write 76 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: letters to the press to try to get attention of 77 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: the people of the Bay Area. The characteristic of the 78 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: letters of what the Zodiac revealed himself through his letters. 79 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: Somebody who was much more quiet and introspective, Probably somebody 80 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: who didn't get a lot of attention in his life, 81 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: somebody who was crying out for attention but didn't know 82 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: how to get it in either appropriate or inappropriate means. 83 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: And so the letters were his way of reaching out 84 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: and making threats and scaring people and that way getting attention. 85 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: And so to me, Arthur Lee Allen just did not 86 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: match up with the Zodiac mark. What got you interested 87 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: in the Zodiac serial killer case? I was first introduced 88 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: to the case by our roommate back in college. We 89 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: were both fans of true crime, and we were sharing 90 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: with one another some of the books that we read, 91 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: and he said to me, have you ever heard of 92 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: the Zodiac? And I hadn't, And I began to research 93 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: it after he talked to me about it, and I 94 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 1: was absolutely smitten with the case that there's so many 95 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: unanswered questions. Indeed, indeed, now let's talk a little bit 96 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: about Ted, because Ki the UNI bomber. Wasn't it his 97 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: brother who turned him in close? It was actually his 98 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: sister in law, his brother's wife. David was very resistant 99 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: to the idea that his brother was the UNI bomber. Obviously, 100 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: he didn't want to think that his brother was that person. 101 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: He didn't know any violence and his brother. So it 102 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: took his wife a while to actually convince him to 103 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: take a close look at it, and to take a 104 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: close look at the UNI Bomber manifesto and compare it 105 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: to some of Ted's letters and some of Ted's writings. 106 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: And it was her persistence that got Dad Ted's brother 107 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: to consider the idea and actually be willing to go 108 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: forward and approach attorneys and make contact with the FBI. 109 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: He's going to be eighty one in May, still alive 110 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: in prison and will probably just die there, won't he 111 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: That's correct. He was in Colorado for about twenty five years. 112 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: He was actually in Colorado for longer than he was 113 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: in Montana in his little cabin. But in December of 114 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, he was moved to North Carolina to 115 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: a health facility. Now, obviously the Department of Corrections is 116 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: unable to say anything about his health condition. I haven't 117 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: been able to confirm this, but rumor has it that 118 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: he expressed through a letter to somebody that he has 119 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: been diagnosed with cancer and told that he has two 120 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: years or that he had two years to live. So 121 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: that would be December of this year. December of twenty 122 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: twenty three is when they expect his time to run out, 123 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: so we could hear an announcement about him. Anytime. Have 124 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: you tried to interview him? I have. I corresponded with 125 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: him for a couple of years back in two thousand 126 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: and nine twenty ten, and what happen. Well, I got 127 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: some very interesting letters from him. I got some Zodiac 128 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: like wording that he sent to me, and his final 129 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: letter I call it my exorcist letter because it once 130 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: he found out who I was, I contacted him under 131 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: a guise of being interested in his manifesto, and I 132 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: really kind of sucked up to him and told him 133 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: how great he was, and told him everything that a 134 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: narcissist and sociopath would want to hear, just to continue 135 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: the dialogue. But once he found out that I was 136 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: studying the Zodiac case, he sent me one final, nasty, 137 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: scathing letter, which was as much anger as he could provide, 138 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: but it rang to me of a similar tone of 139 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: the Zodiac's last confirmed the Exorcist letter. Now the FBI 140 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: in the San Francisco Police Department, based on what they 141 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: say fingerprint and handwriting comparison ruled him out as a suspect. 142 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: How do you handle that? That's the word that's been 143 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: going around. Somebody has posted that online, that those two 144 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: departments have ruled them out. Neither of them have published 145 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: anything or come right out and said that it couldn't 146 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: be him. The best I could actually say is that 147 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: some people within those departments have looked into him and 148 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: were not able to make a match, and so they 149 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: moved on. I know the FBI did a fingerprint comparison 150 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: at the same time. All of the fingerprints in the 151 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: Zodiac case are from publicly available locations, and there's no 152 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: guarantee that those are Zodiac fingerprints. Why do you believe 153 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: Kazynski maybe the Zodiac Killer? Why do I believe? Yes? 154 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: The first thing that took me, actually, I should say, 155 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: first of all, when I heard the idea, I thought 156 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: was a ridiculous idea that he was there a the 157 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: same time. Wasn't he in California? He was? He was. Indeed, 158 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: he taught at UC Berkeley from sixty seven to sixty nine, 159 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: and he was in California in sixty six interviewing for 160 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: his position one that the first canonical murder took place 161 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: over the Christmas break during Kazynski's final year as a professor, 162 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: and thirty one days exactly one month after that, he 163 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: tendered his resignation. His final day at UC Berkeley was 164 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: June the thirtieth, nineteen sixty nine, and four days later 165 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: the murder at Blue Rock Springs Park took place. Following 166 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: his time at Berkeley, there's a two year gap in 167 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: Ted Kazinski's life. He gave his parents home address in Lombard, 168 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: Illinois as his mailing address, but he didn't stay there. 169 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: His mother speaks of regular travels that he took away 170 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: from that home. He would disappear suddenly without notice, so 171 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: he wasn't completely based in that location. And the bulk 172 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac murders and the bulk of the Zodiac 173 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: letters took place during that two lost years of Kasinski's life. Now, 174 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: he pled guilty to all his charges back in nineteen 175 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: ninety eight. If he were the Zodiac killer, why wouldn't 176 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: he just come clean on that too. That's a very 177 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: appropriate question. That's a question that a lot of people ask, 178 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of people point out the truth is 179 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: that Ted Kazinski does not want to be known as 180 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: somebody who is mentally ill. He was given a provisional 181 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: diagnosis of being schizophrenic by a quarter pointed attorney following 182 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: his arrest. He has adamantly declared that he is not 183 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: mentally ill. If he were to admit to the Zodiac killings, 184 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: he would be unable to make that claim that he 185 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: wasn't mentally ill, because there's a lot of craziness that 186 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: took place with that, especially the letters following the murders. 187 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: After he he turned a letter writing in lieu of killing. 188 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: Once he was cited after the final canonical killing, his 189 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: letters became more and more bizarre and more and more 190 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: desperate because people weren't taking him seriously anymore. It appeared 191 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: that he wasn't killing any longer. If he were to 192 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: admit that he was the Zodiac it would put into 193 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: question all of his life's work in the Unibomber manifesto 194 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: and claiming that he has a purpose in what he 195 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: is doing and has a reason and a justification for murder. 196 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: And what specifically, Mark, do you think was the cause 197 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: for you to believe that Kazynski is the Zodiac killer? 198 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: Wasn't anything specific I in my research gathered together evidence 199 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: of six clusters of information that linked the two. I 200 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: don't know if you want to go into those, please 201 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: go ahead, sure, but the first indication once I realized that, 202 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: once I thought it was a crazy idea to link 203 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: the two, then I recalled, oh yeah, the Zodiac included 204 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:21,119 Speaker 1: two bomb diagrams as part of his letters, and obviously, 205 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: Ted Kazinski, the Unibomber, is known for his designing and 206 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: either setting or sending through the mail sixteen bombs over 207 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: the course of seventeen years. The bombs that the Unibomber 208 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: created Kazynski as the Unibomber, were very distinctive. The FBI 209 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: was able to identify them quite easily because they contained 210 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: redundancies such as two dowels that would go through a 211 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: pipe bomb instead of the usual one, or a backup. 212 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: He was very good at what he did. He was 213 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: extremely good. The two diagrams of the Zodiac bombs have 214 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: either two circus or one circuit used for two reasons 215 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: with a cloudy day disconnect, so the intricacy appears evident 216 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: in the universe in the Zodiac bombs as well. Another 217 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: cluster has to do with mathematics. The Zodiac was into codes. 218 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: He sent four codes as part of his letters. What 219 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: are codes? They're symbols to solve and where does coding 220 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: come from? It comes not from the military, It comes 221 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: from within mathematics. It's symbols, symbols that need to be solved. 222 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: And so it was no surprise that Ted Kaczynski, as 223 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: a mathematician, was very interested in coding and as somebody 224 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: who was a little bit paranoid, he put a lot 225 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: of his journaling into codes, and when he was arrested, 226 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: they found codes in his cabins that the FBI said 227 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: they hadn't encountered such complex codes since the Cold War, 228 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: and at least one of them they would not have 229 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: been able to solve if it were not for the 230 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: key that was also recovered from the cabin. Well. He 231 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: was a very intelligent person, extremely his IQ was measured 232 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: above one hundred and sixty. He skipped two grades, one 233 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: in elementary school one in high school, so he enrolled 234 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: at Harvard at the age of sixteen and then became 235 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: one of the youngest professors hired by UC Berkeley Math department, 236 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: and he hated that job. Though didn't he he did 237 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: not do well at it because he was unable to 238 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: socialize with people. His students gave him horrible feedback on 239 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: his lectures. They said he didn't care about his students. 240 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: He ignored questions, He just plowed through the material. He 241 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: read through the book and then left and didn't keep 242 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: his office hours. It's interesting that he only lasted about 243 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: two years when he was student teaching. When he went 244 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: to get his Masters of Mathematics, he lasted two years 245 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: and then gave it up so that he could focus 246 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: on his doctoral work. But then once he secured a 247 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: full time job with UC Berkeley, he only similarly lasted 248 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: two years and then quit. What was the most important 249 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: piece of information that drove you to believe that Ted 250 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: Kaczynski is the Zodiac Killer? Well, that's just it. It's 251 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: not one item. That's just an accumulation and stuffing. It's 252 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: it's very easy to say, oh, I noticed this connection 253 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: and then build a whole story around that. For me, 254 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: it was studying the case for several years before I 255 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: realized that a lot of it can deeal together into 256 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: a single story. I'll tell you one extremely important connection, 257 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: and that is the novel Secret Agent by Joseph Conrad. 258 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: To me reading it, it's almost a guide for the Zodiac. 259 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: It contains themes, it contains individual vocabulary items, phrases that 260 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: almost seemed to be an influence on the reader to 261 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: be fascinated by you're interested in or to actually go 262 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: out and produce the Zodiac serial Killer. And why is 263 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: that significant? Because the Secret Agent is reportedly ted Kazinski's 264 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: favorite book. He wrote to his family one time that 265 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: if they wanted to understand him, he was a hard 266 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: person to understand, but they needed to read that book 267 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: and they needed to especially take notice of a particular 268 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: character the professor within that book. And Kazynski claimed to 269 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: have read that book a dozen times. And I can 270 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: see how rereading that book would have an influence on 271 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: the letters that the Zodiac wrote. Listen to more Coast 272 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and 273 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more