Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing how the middle class is shrinking
Speaker 1: and what that means for you. That is right, dude,
Speaker 1: We are talking about the middle class and you said
Speaker 1: how it's shrinking, which immediately made me think about, honey,
Speaker 1: I shrink the kids. Please tell me you watched that
Speaker 1: movie as a kid, So I rewatched it maybe like
Speaker 1: nine months ago with the kids. Oh my gosh, trying
Speaker 1: to get into some of those live action totally hold up.
Speaker 1: It's it was pretty good. Still. It was pretty good. Still.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that because Giant Ants and the
Speaker 1: Little totally one of my favorite movies as a little kid. Tall,
Speaker 1: blazing grass and then that kid comes to Mode Lawn
Speaker 1: and he had his he had headphones on, right, like
Speaker 1: a walkman or is that what they're called? It is
Speaker 1: like a radio auto. Wasn't like a discman yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there were still the walgments with the scette tapes.
Speaker 1: What was the dad's name, the nerdy guy, Wayne's Lensky?
Speaker 1: But what what was his What's what's the that actor's name?
Speaker 1: The actor's name? Oh? Was I think of it? He
Speaker 1: was so Rick Moran. Yes, oh my god, I'm terrible
Speaker 1: remembering names, but man, I can picture his face today
Speaker 1: looking through that magnifying glass and persee to go Children sequel, Honey,
Speaker 1: I blew up the kids and stuff like that. Those
Speaker 1: that didn't work out. So that was good. I love
Speaker 1: that movie. Uh, And in a similar way, I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna love this episode how the middle classes Shrinking.
Speaker 1: We really do have some good news for folks, and
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll be able to essentially guide you, our listener,
Speaker 1: through what this means for you, what this means for
Speaker 1: your finances, and how you should respond to this quote
Speaker 1: unquote shrinking middle class. Yeah, there's a lot of data
Speaker 1: that we've used in this episode, but we'll be sharing
Speaker 1: with you along the way. But then a lot of
Speaker 1: practical information about how to kind of think about the
Speaker 1: fact that the middle class is actually shrinking, Like, there's
Speaker 1: data showing this, um but what does that mean for
Speaker 1: or how we proceed through life? I think, Matt, for
Speaker 1: some folks that can get them like down and discouraged
Speaker 1: when they see those headlines, but we think there's actually
Speaker 1: cause for optimism. We'll discuss today before we get to
Speaker 1: that I want to mention that I know you you
Speaker 1: have been your your Is it just Eavy who's taking
Speaker 1: piano lessons or or Okay, so just for so far,
Speaker 1: the other girls haven't shown much interest yet they might
Speaker 1: be getting so we're hoping to maybe enroll both of
Speaker 1: our girls are older girls in UH in piano classes
Speaker 1: in the near future. But we we just got a
Speaker 1: piano at which they're excited about love messing around on
Speaker 1: but chopsticks, right, But we found out that actually there's
Speaker 1: some really good YouTube piano lessons out there, and so
Speaker 1: until we get to that point, they're the girls are
Speaker 1: actually just kind of getting familiar with the keys, where
Speaker 1: they place their hands, some basics of like how to
Speaker 1: interact with the piano when you've never done anything musically
Speaker 1: ever before, just through free YouTube videos. The proper hand
Speaker 1: position where I pretend there's an egg exactly within your palm,
Speaker 1: that all that stuff. It's amazing how just like YouTube
Speaker 1: solves so many problems in education and just um you know,
Speaker 1: I was using it recently, UH for a home repair
Speaker 1: that I was working on. It's just like in every
Speaker 1: home repair, for every home repair. Yes, I'm always going
Speaker 1: to YouTube and watching repair three videos, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, I got it. I got a good feel
Speaker 1: for how this works. I know everybody at this point
Speaker 1: knows about YouTube and just the extensive amount of information
Speaker 1: it's there, about an amazing catalog of just I mean,
Speaker 1: what I forget. I heard some stats as to the
Speaker 1: number of hours of YouTube video of footage that is
Speaker 1: being uploaded every single day, and it's a mind blowing
Speaker 1: amount of video, which basically means that there is not
Speaker 1: one single person that will ever be able to navigate
Speaker 1: the trows of video. But it's nor would you want
Speaker 1: to write exactly that. A lot of its garbage, a
Speaker 1: lot of crap on there. But but it just made
Speaker 1: me think that there are certain things that we may
Speaker 1: be forget it or don't even think, Like that didn't
Speaker 1: even cross my mind. Oh hey, maybe there's great panel
Speaker 1: lessons on YouTube for free, but they exist similarly like
Speaker 1: little drawing classes. The girls have done some of those
Speaker 1: online before on and there's some great art teachers on YouTube.
Speaker 1: And I know, you know, I don't want my kids
Speaker 1: in front of the screen all day, every day, And
Speaker 1: that's why I was gonna I was gonna ask, how
Speaker 1: do you feel about them looking at a screen versus
Speaker 1: being instructed by somebody where that is all that they're
Speaker 1: gonna do and they're not gonna dally when the ads
Speaker 1: play like, oh but that looks really interesting. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then there's there's definitely that trade off, right, And so
Speaker 1: for now it's great and maybe we'll learn some of
Speaker 1: the basics on YouTube, but eventually we'll do some in
Speaker 1: person classes. But hopefully it's a good way to figure
Speaker 1: out some interests as well before you start kind of
Speaker 1: blinking down the money and paying up for it. That's
Speaker 1: a good point, that's exactly right. So just word of
Speaker 1: the wines out there. I'll try to figure out which
Speaker 1: videos my kids were watching. Maybe we will post a
Speaker 1: link to one or two of them in the show notes,
Speaker 1: so that, Yeah, if your kiddo is interested in learning
Speaker 1: an instrument, just just know that YouTube's got some good
Speaker 1: stuff out there kind of at least help them get started.
Speaker 1: And they gotta watch that tutorial on how to play
Speaker 1: the theme song from the Office three year olds. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the first song every kid, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: figure out. But Matt Lists mentioned the beer we're having
Speaker 1: on this episode. This is Stiegel rattler, But it's the
Speaker 1: lemon variety. We've had the grape food variety on before
Speaker 1: its throne, which I assume is French Leon. No, this
Speaker 1: is Austrians. Yeah, let makes sense. We'll get our thoughts
Speaker 1: on this one at the end of the episode. And
Speaker 1: we just got back from the beach and had this
Speaker 1: is like a classic beach beer and yeah, I never
Speaker 1: get tired of it. Well, I will share with you
Speaker 1: why it is not a classic beach beer for me,
Speaker 1: but we'll say that for the end of the Well,
Speaker 1: none of this early on beer talk, like we used
Speaker 1: to write. Well, by the way, shout out to the listener, Logan,
Speaker 1: who I met when I was at the beach one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's always fun and I always appreciate it when
Speaker 1: folks come up and say hi. It's not every day
Speaker 1: we get to interact with people who listen to the show,
Speaker 1: but it's always a blast when we do. Did you
Speaker 1: quiz him make sure he listened to the most recent episodes. Yes,
Speaker 1: you clearly have not been listening, sir, Right, what's your problem? Dude?
Speaker 1: Go back and hit play. Uh No, I did not
Speaker 1: not do that, but um yeah, Logan seemed like a
Speaker 1: cool dude. Nice, nice meeting the logan. But mat, let's
Speaker 1: get onto the subject at hand. We are discussing the
Speaker 1: middle class. Let's do it's shrinking and what that means
Speaker 1: for our listeners. And uh, it made me think, as
Speaker 1: we're kind of thinking through this episode, that it's never
Speaker 1: fun to be in pain. Like nobody's like, who just
Speaker 1: hurt my back working out? Or um, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: I sprained my ankle when I was going for a
Speaker 1: round the other day. Nobody talks like that, nobody thinks
Speaker 1: that way. But it turns out, though, of course, that
Speaker 1: pain is actually a good thing for us, right, because
Speaker 1: if we didn't feel pain when those things occurred, we're
Speaker 1: more likely to do more damage to the wounded area
Speaker 1: if we don't take any action. Right. Um, so yeah,
Speaker 1: if it's pain, if there's some sort of pain free
Speaker 1: wound that you got, you might break your ankle instead
Speaker 1: of just braining it. So there are some things that
Speaker 1: appear on their surface to be bad, but they're actually good.
Speaker 1: And like when we're talking about the middle class shrinking,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of our listeners might instinctively have
Speaker 1: like a sour reply. It might be like, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course I know that, like things aren't good, right, and
Speaker 1: but I think we've been primed to maybe receive crappy headlines,
Speaker 1: shrug our shoulders in disappointment, move on about our day,
Speaker 1: and just kind of think the worst. But we would
Speaker 1: say that the shrinking middle class is actually, in large
Speaker 1: part a good thing. And so let's talk about that today, Matt,
Speaker 1: How how a smaller middle class isn't all bad, and
Speaker 1: how actually our listeners can do something take that information
Speaker 1: and do something positive with it. That's right. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we're not doctors here by by any means, but
Speaker 1: like like what you said right when you twisted an
Speaker 1: ankle or something like that, what it makes me think
Speaker 1: of is like there's an immediate pain, which is probably
Speaker 1: a really healthy thing to get you to stop what
Speaker 1: it is that you're doing, right, But then after that,
Speaker 1: like what immediately happens is that your ankle swells um
Speaker 1: And I think like that's how we're trying to to
Speaker 1: kind of present how we're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: middle class today, because this sort of like that prolonged
Speaker 1: pain that we're trying to address here. Because again we're
Speaker 1: not experts, we're not doctors, but it seems like that
Speaker 1: that is the first step that our bodies take towards healing. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so this is this is why we're making the
Speaker 1: argument that we think, uh, shrinking middle class could potentially
Speaker 1: be a sign of overall health for our economy. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if it does feel like the middle class is shrinking,
Speaker 1: then it might feel like that you are getting squeezed
Speaker 1: to one end or the other. Uh. And so if
Speaker 1: you buy into the narrative that the middle class is
Speaker 1: hollowing out, you're going to be more likely to be
Speaker 1: upset by an economy that isn't working for the majority
Speaker 1: of Americans. Because a healthy middle class creates a more
Speaker 1: stable society with less crime, with a healthier economy, and
Speaker 1: you know, with greater levels of innovation. After all, the
Speaker 1: rise of the middle class is one of the main
Speaker 1: reasons our country is what it is today. So shrinking
Speaker 1: middle class should be concerning, right. Well, it's not that
Speaker 1: there is no bad news out there, right, but we
Speaker 1: actually think this is more good than bad. And that's
Speaker 1: because the majority of folks leaving the middle class are
Speaker 1: actually being bumped up into the upper income stratosphere. Folks
Speaker 1: are leaving the middle class to join the ranks of
Speaker 1: upper class earners and we feel this is good news. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's start with some definitions, Matt, because it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of hard to define the term middle class, you
Speaker 1: know are we talking about because well, there's there was
Speaker 1: no technical set definition of what that means. It just
Speaker 1: depends on who it is that you're reading, what research
Speaker 1: you're coming across, and at whatever. Identify middle class, but
Speaker 1: exactly they might be pupper middle like upper class or
Speaker 1: something like that, and they like to think that they're
Speaker 1: a person of the people, but in reality, now you're rich. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, are we talking about education, income, living arrangements.
Speaker 1: The definition it can mean different things to different people
Speaker 1: based on who you're talking about, and you know, based
Speaker 1: on what methodology you're using. But just let you guys know,
Speaker 1: are jumping off point for this episode was a recent
Speaker 1: Pew Research Center study and this is the kind of
Speaker 1: stuff that Pew has been tracking for decades. We'll link
Speaker 1: to it in the show notes so you can pour
Speaker 1: over it yourself if you'd like to. But the definition
Speaker 1: that we're going with states that the it's it's gonna
Speaker 1: be income based, and it states that the average middle
Speaker 1: class family earns between fifty two and a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty six thousand dollars in dollars, which um, you know
Speaker 1: has changed a little bit because of recent abouts of inflation.
Speaker 1: But that's true. I'm here. I mean, they can't, like
Speaker 1: on a dime, update the information, update the research to
Speaker 1: reflects but it has changed. Yeah. And when you think
Speaker 1: about middle class lifestyle and it being based on income, well,
Speaker 1: I think it's a reasonable measurement, but then it might
Speaker 1: leave out let's say, some of those firefolks who have
Speaker 1: one five million dollars net worth, but they're not actually
Speaker 1: currently bringing in income to that extent, right, But yet
Speaker 1: lower income folks are then considered folks who make belowty
Speaker 1: dollars on the income scale. Upper class folks exceed that
Speaker 1: hundred fifty six thousand dollar amounts um and and a few,
Speaker 1: like we said, releases this information regularly and and really
Speaker 1: what they're attempting to measure is what's happened over the
Speaker 1: past fifty years when it comes to income mobility. And
Speaker 1: I think while we're gonna find today is that while
Speaker 1: it seems like the headlines tend to focus on a
Speaker 1: middle class that shrinking, after we dug into the info.
Speaker 1: It just feels like the whole story is rarely told.
Speaker 1: But we thought that maybe like the full set of
Speaker 1: data and kind of um talking about its implications can
Speaker 1: be helpful to all of us. Yeah, it can be
Speaker 1: helpful to the narrative and the words that we use
Speaker 1: and the attitudes that we carry with us, because in reality,
Speaker 1: when you look at peuse data like it does show
Speaker 1: that the median income for the middle class has actually
Speaker 1: grown over the last fifty years, but it just hasn't
Speaker 1: grown as quickly as those who are upper income earners.
Speaker 1: Middle Class incomes have grown over the past fifty years,
Speaker 1: whereas upper class incomes have increased at a rate of
Speaker 1: sixty nine. But the thing is this makes sense if
Speaker 1: you consider that the very fact that income mobility exists
Speaker 1: like that means that individuals who may have previously been
Speaker 1: in the middle class, they have the ability and they
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to increase their incomes by a significant
Speaker 1: factor right where where they're actually leaving the middle class behind.
Speaker 1: They're not just migrating upward with the middle class, they're
Speaker 1: kind of boosting themselves into a completely different class. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so if you consider where that nearly difference between
Speaker 1: the upper and middle class might have come from well,
Speaker 1: there's I think there's a very good chance that that
Speaker 1: increase came from earners leaving the middle class. I think
Speaker 1: that's very true, right, because as we've seen the middle
Speaker 1: classes getting smaller, but more and more of those folks
Speaker 1: who left the middle class have gone to into the
Speaker 1: upper class, like into the upper stratosphere of income than
Speaker 1: have gone down into the lower income. There's not like
Speaker 1: an uber elite uh upper class that where folks have
Speaker 1: dropped down from there into the upper class like the
Speaker 1: All the folks that have been going into the upper
Speaker 1: class have been getting there from below basically exactly. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, even though you you just mentioned matt attitudes
Speaker 1: of our beliefs, right, I think that's such an important
Speaker 1: part of this and how um just seeing some of
Speaker 1: those headlines could sometimes make a sour on the American
Speaker 1: experiment or just kind of how we feel about our
Speaker 1: life or our lot in general. And the reality though
Speaker 1: is is that almost all of us are thing better
Speaker 1: than our parents did, right, as evidence by like a
Speaker 1: more widespread availability of healthy foods at cheaper prices, more
Speaker 1: affordable consumer goods, and and even better tax policy. But
Speaker 1: even though those things are true, consumer sentiment is often negative, right,
Speaker 1: Our attitudes are like we we just can consistently think
Speaker 1: that things are getting worse. And there was this recent
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal article and the title was consumers say
Speaker 1: that is the worst economy ever, And that was based
Speaker 1: on a consumer sentiment survey from the University of Michigan
Speaker 1: that that they put out I think on a quarterly basis,
Speaker 1: and uh, or maybe it's monthly, but attitudes and believes
Speaker 1: they just don't always line up with the reality. And
Speaker 1: so just to think that is the worst economy ever
Speaker 1: would be an overstatement of incredible proportions. And uh, it's
Speaker 1: obviously it's not all sunshine and roses. We're gonna get
Speaker 1: to that in a little bit. But it's important for
Speaker 1: us to have a proper perspective on what we're actually
Speaker 1: living through and the aortunities that exist. So we want
Speaker 1: to talk about those opportunities, but we will get a
Speaker 1: little bit pessimistic to lead things off. We'll talk about
Speaker 1: we'll talk about the downsides of a shrinking middle class
Speaker 1: and and some of the headwinds that middle class Americans
Speaker 1: are facing. Right now, let's get to our thoughts on
Speaker 1: some of those things. Right after this alright, we're back.
Speaker 1: We are talking about how the middle class is shrinking,
Speaker 1: and you know, before we before we die, like explain
Speaker 1: all the wonderful ways that this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: good thing for you. There are some fair arguments for
Speaker 1: why so much of our country is feeling pessimistic. Inflation,
Speaker 1: for one, is obviously impacting everybody, uh, and it's threatening
Speaker 1: to undo some of the gains that people at the
Speaker 1: bottom end of the income spectrum have realized over the
Speaker 1: past year or two. We talked about gas prices not
Speaker 1: too long ago. Although they are coming down now, they
Speaker 1: have significantly cramped a lot of budgets, but prices at
Speaker 1: the grocery store. That affects lower income folks in a
Speaker 1: larger a as well. And some of the more disturbing
Speaker 1: research showed from p that lower income earners, they've showed
Speaker 1: actually the least amount of growth at just forty five
Speaker 1: percent over the past fifty years versus the fifty and
Speaker 1: sixty from the middle and upper class earners. That's right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So so we're yeah, Inflation obviously is is a reason
Speaker 1: that people feel past ms. The last year has has
Speaker 1: been a real gut punch for a lot of people
Speaker 1: when it comes to their personal finances and long term
Speaker 1: inflation in specific segments of the economy is taking a
Speaker 1: toll as well, Matt, because healthcare costs as a percentage
Speaker 1: of GDP is through the roof right when you look
Speaker 1: at over the last thirty forty years, and and no
Speaker 1: political solution seems to have made much of a dent
Speaker 1: in staid. You just have to choose not to go
Speaker 1: to the doctor like I do, or just kind of
Speaker 1: chance it. That's my approach, right, which you know is
Speaker 1: not something that I can recommend. Can look at this
Speaker 1: share on the on my back. That's what I like.
Speaker 1: My doctor friends, I have very few of, uh, Like
Speaker 1: one of my friends he's an ophthalmologists and and so
Speaker 1: he I know he doesn't know anything out these things.
Speaker 1: But you know, I still gotn't take a look mine
Speaker 1: like you look into his life, like you don't see
Speaker 1: anything weird? Right, right, exactly, I'm good, I'm good. Right. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean the same thing is true when it comes
Speaker 1: to the staring cost of college, which we're actually going
Speaker 1: to talk about on the show next week. But there
Speaker 1: are at least in that regard ways for for folks
Speaker 1: to avoid at least some of that increased cost by
Speaker 1: taking a savvy approach, which we're gonna discuss. But it's
Speaker 1: of course it's a legitimate problem impacting a lot of
Speaker 1: millennials gen z ears and even their parents right taking
Speaker 1: on parent plus loans and the media price of a
Speaker 1: home talking about something else negative was two point two
Speaker 1: times income in nine and it's six point three times
Speaker 1: income in That's that's a big jump, and it's probably
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be even more matt because of you know,
Speaker 1: recent home price appreciation and now rising interest rates. But
Speaker 1: homes have gotten a lot nicer. There's that's something doesn't
Speaker 1: get talked about a lot. It's just cost more money
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. That means a lot more space.
Speaker 1: Um next are amenities and stuff like that. But it's
Speaker 1: still a meaningful issue, and it's one worth mentioning. It's
Speaker 1: certainly adding to the negative attitudes. Although I think someone
Speaker 1: could easily make the argument that well, with that nicer house,
Speaker 1: isn't isn't that nicer house a part of achieving that
Speaker 1: middle class lifestyle? Isn't that a part of the middle
Speaker 1: class or a part of the American dream. I think
Speaker 1: that that could be the case. But it's also true
Speaker 1: that more households are living on two incomes than they
Speaker 1: were fifty years ago. Of single income households were considered
Speaker 1: middle class half century ago, but only thirty seven percent
Speaker 1: are now. Uh. And so single folks, especially single parents,
Speaker 1: are finding themselves in any more precarious financial position, whereas
Speaker 1: married folks are finding it easier to move up the
Speaker 1: income scale. So the economy is working for a large
Speaker 1: chunk of folks, but your family status is proving to
Speaker 1: play a large role in your financial security. Yes, so
Speaker 1: the data from pre really is mixed in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways because we are seeing a shrinking middle class,
Speaker 1: but that has led to a bigger rise in in
Speaker 1: families being in that upper upper class um strata where
Speaker 1: their income is at least six figures if not higher.
Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of folks math they
Speaker 1: feel like everyone is falling behind, But it turns out
Speaker 1: that some segments of the population are actually doing really well.
Speaker 1: They're actually vastly improving their their standing in this economy.
Speaker 1: And the New York Times actually just had an article
Speaker 1: about second generation immigrants and how second generation immigrants are
Speaker 1: succeeding wildly, um, and it was just kind of a
Speaker 1: fascinating article about the ascent of immigrants in this country
Speaker 1: in general. You're you're actually more likely to become middle class,
Speaker 1: upper middle class, and even rich, which is another stratus
Speaker 1: for The New York Times described just straight up rich,
Speaker 1: just straight up loaded as a child of an immigrant,
Speaker 1: if you were like born here in the United States
Speaker 1: and your family has been here for a while. Immigration
Speaker 1: has basically always been a good thing for for this
Speaker 1: country as a whole, keeping the American dream alive. But
Speaker 1: I feel like there's just so much interesting data in
Speaker 1: that math that we can extrapolate. It's clearly more financially
Speaker 1: beneficial to grow up as the child of an immigrant
Speaker 1: than to be a third or work generation citizen. And
Speaker 1: I don't know. A friend of the show, Christie Shennon,
Speaker 1: who we had on back in episode one eighteen, I
Speaker 1: think her story is kind of indicative of this reality.
Speaker 1: Her parents basically grew up in poverty in China under authoritarianism,
Speaker 1: and they ended up making it out to Canada, and
Speaker 1: they well, they had to sacrifice a lot right in
Speaker 1: order for for Christie to succeed, but succeed is what
Speaker 1: Christie did. And sometimes there there is that reality that
Speaker 1: that for some reason, second generation immigrants are able to
Speaker 1: make the most progress when it comes to the American dream,
Speaker 1: even more so than folks who have called America home
Speaker 1: for for a lot longer. Yeah, it's crazy how the data,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredibly clear. It's almost as if immigrants
Speaker 1: have the clearer understanding of what's available here in the U. S.
Speaker 1: Than folks who have, yeah, for generation has been U. S. Citizen.
Speaker 1: Makes me think of Hamilton's and what you say. Immigrants,
Speaker 1: they get the job done. And it's just it's true,
Speaker 1: and the data really really reflects that that immigrants are
Speaker 1: protecting in the American dream more than more than most
Speaker 1: folks who have been here a long time. That's right.
Speaker 1: So if disagree with us, take it up with Lemon
Speaker 1: weel uh okay, let' let's talk about how the middle
Speaker 1: class is shrinking, because part of what we need to
Speaker 1: do is really dispel some rumors and sort of like
Speaker 1: false beliefs about rich folks, because you know, like when
Speaker 1: we see articles about quote unquote rich people, were usually
Speaker 1: hearing specifically, not about maybe a millionaire, but billionaires right,
Speaker 1: like like Bezos Elon, they get their fair share of headlines,
Speaker 1: but these fellas are definitely outliers. By the way, Elon
Speaker 1: has had a lot of negative press, likely um there
Speaker 1: there are other reasons that he's been in the press,
Speaker 1: like his his private life is um odd yet to
Speaker 1: say the least. But the reality, though, is is that
Speaker 1: when you hear the word rich, you should have a
Speaker 1: much broader definition as to who falls in this, you know,
Speaker 1: within this category, and those guys should probably they probably
Speaker 1: should be in that completely different camp like the uber
Speaker 1: super filthy rich that I was talking about, Like there
Speaker 1: isn't really a separate category for those who are beyond rich.
Speaker 1: It's really if you make more than a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifties six thousand dollars, you are considered over class and technically,
Speaker 1: within a lot of studies, you are in the same
Speaker 1: category as Elon and as Bezos, which is funny because yeah,
Speaker 1: they are the complete outline hydrofoil. But when we talk
Speaker 1: about rich people, we're we're often pointing fingers at like
Speaker 1: the super rich, techmobuls um, the hyper rich, right, the
Speaker 1: billionaire class. But there's a big difference between just normal,
Speaker 1: everyday rich, which for a lot of people looks a
Speaker 1: little more middle class or doesn't feel um exorbitant. And
Speaker 1: some of those guys who are trying to you know,
Speaker 1: make us an interplanetary species by firing rockets off into
Speaker 1: space and you know, taking down bridges to move their
Speaker 1: yachts around the world. But yeah, another article actually from
Speaker 1: the New York Times that ran recently discussed how the
Speaker 1: majority of rich folks actually make their money, and that
Speaker 1: was really interesting to me too, Matt, because spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: it's it's not from building rockets or you know, creating
Speaker 1: some sort of online business or new found venture that
Speaker 1: reaches millions and millions or tens of millions of folks.
Speaker 1: Most folks that are in the rich category they get
Speaker 1: rich over time, uh, from owning an incredibly not sexy business, right,
Speaker 1: mostly from looking like normal people. And according to some
Speaker 1: some survey data from twenty nineteen, the folks who make
Speaker 1: up even the point one percent are largely folks that
Speaker 1: would fly under the radar, right, that are eating at
Speaker 1: the same same fast food restaurant you might be eating at. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're eating at the same Mexican place where they handle
Speaker 1: the free chips. That's right, that's right, Like they're down
Speaker 1: with that too. And you know, we're talking about folks
Speaker 1: who own auto dealerships or smaller regional distribution companies. Uh,
Speaker 1: the folks who you wouldn't necessarily think of as uber wealthy.
Speaker 1: And even the author of that New York Times peaks
Speaker 1: was like, I was shocked to read who the rich are, Like,
Speaker 1: they're not the people you would suspect. It was helpful
Speaker 1: to see. I think that some of the rich people,
Speaker 1: according to this data, actually have lives that aren't completely abnormal, right,
Speaker 1: And and oftentimes their wealth comes from creating a business
Speaker 1: this that employs a lot of the people, that is
Speaker 1: is doing something productive for the local economy. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think you could even argue that that quote unquote
Speaker 1: normal life where they have what looks like normal expenses,
Speaker 1: is a part of what has led to them having
Speaker 1: the you know, those larger amounts of wealth. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so I think that one thing that we can take
Speaker 1: away from this is that wealth flows to owners. You know,
Speaker 1: we talked about that in depth back in episode four.
Speaker 1: That's why we're so big on investing in the market, right,
Speaker 1: owning these little slices of a wide array of American businesses,
Speaker 1: because even if you are unlikely to start the next
Speaker 1: Amazon or the next Tesla, there are still many avenues
Speaker 1: to making a great income landing yourself within the upper
Speaker 1: class of American society that doesn't involve moving to Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley or marrying rich people. Right. Yeah, that's if that's
Speaker 1: your your main avenue to moving into the upper crust
Speaker 1: of society, just marrying someone who's loaded already. Um, more
Speaker 1: power to you. But uh, that you don't have to
Speaker 1: do that, is what we're saying. That doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be your only year one avenue, right, it's they're still
Speaker 1: the possibility for lots of folks without going to those links. Um.
Speaker 1: It's also important to note math that being rich is
Speaker 1: an always evolving phenomenon. So something like one third of
Speaker 1: Americans are actually going to be included among the top
Speaker 1: five percent of income earners for at least one year
Speaker 1: during their working life. Super cool stat. Yeah, a very
Speaker 1: cool stat. So often times we say rich folks and
Speaker 1: we point a finger there. Um, But it's not like
Speaker 1: the static group of individuals who continued to pad their
Speaker 1: Scrooge McDuck like vault with more gold coins, Right, that's
Speaker 1: usually kind of the way we think about people who
Speaker 1: are considered rich in our society. But but there's a chance,
Speaker 1: a decent chance, that you, dear listener, will be included
Speaker 1: in that group for at least a portion of your career,
Speaker 1: even if it's just for maybe a few years during
Speaker 1: the time when you're your peak earning abilities. Um. But
Speaker 1: you also found that the bottom quintile of Americans is
Speaker 1: more than likely to experience upward mobility, while only seven
Speaker 1: percent experience downward mobility. So the reality is that there
Speaker 1: is a lot of upward mobility potential in our society still,
Speaker 1: even though, Matt, I think a lot of times, um,
Speaker 1: the way we discuss these things, there's a prevailing attitude
Speaker 1: or belief that that's not possible. Well, the stats tell
Speaker 1: a different story, right, that the people from who are
Speaker 1: in the lower class can move up, even if it's
Speaker 1: not easy, and the folks who consider themselves middle class
Speaker 1: might at least for a stretch of time be be
Speaker 1: in the upper class. Our class structure, income levels, they're
Speaker 1: not some sort of never changing, set in stone sort
Speaker 1: of reality. Right. Yeah, there's a lot of mobility, and
Speaker 1: we need to keep that in mind. Um let's let's
Speaker 1: take another approach here too, because if you've listened to
Speaker 1: the show for any length of time, you know that
Speaker 1: that we believe that riches aren't everything. Right, It's it's
Speaker 1: okay if you're never a part of that five percent
Speaker 1: that are that is going to be in the you know,
Speaker 1: top point one percent, because we believe that joy is
Speaker 1: found in a whole lot of things that are not
Speaker 1: related to money at all. And so it's not our
Speaker 1: goal in this episode to push all of you, how
Speaker 1: the money listeners out there, to figure out how to
Speaker 1: make a million bucks every year or even more than
Speaker 1: a fifty six thou dollars if you love what it
Speaker 1: is that you do, earning a lot less than that
Speaker 1: while still being able to save and invest more power
Speaker 1: to you. Uh So, for instance, most teachers, they will
Speaker 1: never be categorized in that upper income at Chalange, but
Speaker 1: most are pretty passionate about their work and they love
Speaker 1: educating the next generation. There's a level of fulfillment that
Speaker 1: I've heard many teachers express that that makes up for
Speaker 1: a smaller paycheck. Uh And we've got some teacher friends
Speaker 1: who love to take full advantage of those summers off.
Speaker 1: So I say this because it's important to point out
Speaker 1: that making a conscious choice to spend your days doing
Speaker 1: something awesome, at least something that's awesome to you that
Speaker 1: you feel is fulfilling, is going to be way more
Speaker 1: important than getting rich according to what the world is
Speaker 1: calling rich at the very least. But on that note,
Speaker 1: we would not have an episode here for you without
Speaker 1: some more practical advice. So we have some specific tips, uh,
Speaker 1: some strategies to change your economic position, some different ways
Speaker 1: to increase your income. We will get to all of
Speaker 1: those right after this break. All right, we are back
Speaker 1: from the break, still talking about shrinking middle class, but
Speaker 1: how it's not all bad. And I like what you
Speaker 1: said kind of right before we went to the break,
Speaker 1: how there are a lot more things that matter in
Speaker 1: this life than just money. Right, And so somebody might
Speaker 1: hear the beginning of this episode and think like we
Speaker 1: want everyone to get rich and sacrifice whatever it takes
Speaker 1: in order to get there. That is certainly not the case.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you, especially your friends and family, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't don't throw them by the wayside in order to
Speaker 1: make more money. But relatively speaking, you know, when we're
Speaker 1: looking at the data from PEW. We want we do
Speaker 1: want our listeners to be represented in and included in
Speaker 1: the population that's moving up, right, that's finding more financial security.
Speaker 1: We do whose incomes are are largely growing. Um, But
Speaker 1: how do you ensure basically that you're you're on the
Speaker 1: winning side of a shrinking middle class. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: that now. The first thing we would say, uh, that
Speaker 1: there are a few steps we think you should take,
Speaker 1: or that most people should take. One is to to
Speaker 1: change your mindset. And that might sound a little woo
Speaker 1: woo or something like that, but uh, it's important for
Speaker 1: positive thoughts. Yeah, and there's like like definitely some like
Speaker 1: bad advice right headed in that direction where it manifested. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's just kind of ridiculous. But but there is
Speaker 1: a reality that you have control of your life and
Speaker 1: that we don't live in a cast system. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes knowing or seeing some of that data, but
Speaker 1: then but also recognizing that you have more control than
Speaker 1: you think, how that can help. And there's more income
Speaker 1: mobility in this country than in most places in the
Speaker 1: rest of the world, although the Scandinavian country countries are
Speaker 1: are actually better than us in that regard, but we
Speaker 1: talked about the fact that almost Americans are going to
Speaker 1: be in the top five percent of income earters for
Speaker 1: at least a year, right, And I think that that
Speaker 1: should actually be encouraging, right to help people realize that
Speaker 1: they are in the driver's seat of their own life. Right,
Speaker 1: they they aren't stuck. They can make progress. And I
Speaker 1: think knowing and believing that is is part of the
Speaker 1: key to finding the motivation to change your lot in life.
Speaker 1: Makes me think of this Netflix movie I watched with
Speaker 1: my wife a few months back, Matt called White Tiger.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you it was a book too.
Speaker 1: I think my wife read the book okay, um, and
Speaker 1: it's literally about this young Indian entrepreneur and uh. For
Speaker 1: him to get to the place he got, it was
Speaker 1: a lot harder than almost any path that any modern
Speaker 1: day American has has to take to get to that
Speaker 1: middle or upper class. So I think it's helpful maybe
Speaker 1: to see stories from other people in other countries and
Speaker 1: realize that while it's not necessarily easy, um, it is
Speaker 1: one of those things that is more widely available than
Speaker 1: in a whole lot of other places where you could
Speaker 1: be living. Yeah, I mean it kind of goes back
Speaker 1: to the immigrants as well. When you come from a country,
Speaker 1: when you come from a system that does not foster
Speaker 1: financial or income mobility, I think you are able to
Speaker 1: come to the US and see the opportunities here. I
Speaker 1: forget the name of the comedian. There's a he's he's
Speaker 1: a Chinese guy, but he talks about how there's just
Speaker 1: so much great stuff going on in the US. Ronnie Chain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, yeah right, and and uh. He was explaining
Speaker 1: how the word for America basically means like I think
Speaker 1: it's the beautiful land, the beautiful country, or something like that,
Speaker 1: like when you translated directly, because of so much of
Speaker 1: the promise that is here in our country, and we
Speaker 1: fail to see that a lot of times. But it
Speaker 1: is good to be reminded of that from talking to
Speaker 1: folks who are from other countries who have escaped those systems.
Speaker 1: But another way that folks can get ahead is by
Speaker 1: prioritizing your education, something immigrants have also done who have
Speaker 1: come to the US. Because p has found that there's
Speaker 1: a growing income gap between Americans with a bachelor's degree
Speaker 1: and those who do not have one, And it is
Speaker 1: important to note here that it doesn't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: be a college degree here that we're talking about. That's
Speaker 1: the It's definitely the traditional path for a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: and it will make a lot of sense as a
Speaker 1: way to move up the income scale, in particular if
Speaker 1: you're able to keep that debt to a minimum. But
Speaker 1: it certainly feels like it is the most replicable way
Speaker 1: to increase your income. Uh. And that's proven out to
Speaker 1: by the facts, by the data. Right, Yeah, And you're right,
Speaker 1: education is a crucial component here when it comes to
Speaker 1: moving up the socioeconomic hierarchy. Right. But but p was
Speaker 1: also looking over a long time arising here fifty years
Speaker 1: and interestingly enough for actually seeing more signs over the
Speaker 1: past decade that entrepreneurship and blue collar work can be
Speaker 1: more lucrative these days for for a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: and that path often allows you to avoid taking on
Speaker 1: a boatload of student loan debt. Again, we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about kind of some of these things a little bit
Speaker 1: more in next week's episode, but check out our conversation
Speaker 1: with about blue collar work with Ken Rusk back in
Speaker 1: episode two seventies seven for for more on that. But
Speaker 1: for folks who are more inclined to work with their hands.
Speaker 1: There's more of a chance than at any time in
Speaker 1: recent history that you can make a substantial income while
Speaker 1: avoiding some of the debt and time and opportunity costs
Speaker 1: that goes along with a college education. But still education,
Speaker 1: even if it's not higher education. Even it's not going
Speaker 1: to a university or something like that or getting a
Speaker 1: master's to there are all sorts of other ways that
Speaker 1: you can educate yourself, especially now, like for free or
Speaker 1: or for cheap that can have an outsized impact on
Speaker 1: your ability to to build your wealth. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Another way you can move up that ladder gradually is
Speaker 1: by investing, because obviously increasing your income is great, but
Speaker 1: we still see stories all over the place about folks
Speaker 1: who are making six figures who are still living paycheck
Speaker 1: to paycheck. Uh, And so we wanted to highlight this
Speaker 1: because a high salary does not equal a robust savings rate. Uh.
Speaker 1: Pew wasn't really measuring net worth in their study, but
Speaker 1: we think of that actually as an even more compelling metric,
Speaker 1: because when you're investing money with every paycheck, slowly but surely,
Speaker 1: that's gonna have a significant impact on your ability to
Speaker 1: build wealth and gain financial freedom. Again, we're not saying
Speaker 1: it's easy, but you really can do this. This, this
Speaker 1: really can be done in any of the three income classes.
Speaker 1: It feels like this truly sort of democratic technique that
Speaker 1: is accessible to to everyone, and it's more accessible now
Speaker 1: than ever with the abundance of four one K plans
Speaker 1: of low fee invest through some of those low cost brokes.
Speaker 1: You don't have to know the guy, you don't have
Speaker 1: to don't have to like make a phone call and
Speaker 1: what you figure all of this out. A lot of
Speaker 1: it is automated, either through your workplace or if not,
Speaker 1: it is incredibly easy to set up with somebody like
Speaker 1: Fidelity or Vanguard, and there's these low cost funds. But
Speaker 1: also you can get started for a dollar right, whereas
Speaker 1: before you used to have at least at least a
Speaker 1: thousand bucks for a number of years right to get started.
Speaker 1: And now it's like it's democratized, really um and you
Speaker 1: can buy those low cost index funds and you can
Speaker 1: just get build wealth over time solely but surely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, actually so, and it's important to say that
Speaker 1: we're building wealth because by investing that's not necessarily going
Speaker 1: to increase your income, right, it's like almost the inverse.
Speaker 1: So that is true. By increasing your income, that may, however,
Speaker 1: potentially allow you to invest more, and that truly is
Speaker 1: the ultimate goal that we're striving after here, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so by increasing your income, like, we just don't
Speaker 1: want to get the means mixed up with the end.
Speaker 1: And it's important just to have these things and within
Speaker 1: the right place. Yeah. Well, and and to your point
Speaker 1: about getting there gradually by investing that you can grow
Speaker 1: your net worth even on a smaller income. Well, there's
Speaker 1: the occasional story that comes out right about somebody who
Speaker 1: did have a small income but over the decades was
Speaker 1: able to amass a small fortune. And um, there was
Speaker 1: a story a few years back, um in in CNBC
Speaker 1: about a janitor who died with eight million dollars in
Speaker 1: in his investment accounts. And it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where I don't necessarily think of that as a good
Speaker 1: thing that you would focus so dang heavily on investing
Speaker 1: for your future that you don't you're not able to
Speaker 1: actually like use some of those funds now to further
Speaker 1: your enjoyment in life. Um. But it's also it also
Speaker 1: helps to prove what you were just saying that that
Speaker 1: that a little bit by little bit, even on a
Speaker 1: small income, can amass into something meaningful. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: He was a janitor and before that he was working
Speaker 1: at a gas station, and so it's not like this
Speaker 1: guy had some sort of large windfall. It was him
Speaker 1: literally spending less than he made in investing the difference.
Speaker 1: Another route we think that you should consider when it
Speaker 1: comes to ear any more money is to take the
Speaker 1: path of entrepreneurship. We think that you should consider working
Speaker 1: for yourself because in a lot of profession like, there's
Speaker 1: going to be a cap to what it is that
Speaker 1: you can earn. We we talked about teachers earlier on
Speaker 1: how they are a lot of them are finding some
Speaker 1: fulfilling work. But you are getting rich teaching at your
Speaker 1: local elementary school understatement. And that's right. But let's say
Speaker 1: that same teacher starts a YouTube channel, or maybe they
Speaker 1: start selling lesson plans on teachers pay teachers, which is
Speaker 1: a great resource if you're the kind of person who
Speaker 1: likes to put together a curriculum, or even be like
Speaker 1: that piano teacher Joel that you mentioned on YouTube, because
Speaker 1: you know, if if you're a piano teacher and maybe
Speaker 1: you are earning fifty bucks a lesson, that's pretty great.
Speaker 1: But teaching the entire world can actually provide more income
Speaker 1: per hour spent working than you would be able to
Speaker 1: find otherwise. Yeah, and there's just more ability now than
Speaker 1: before to kind of take something that you're passionate about
Speaker 1: or something that you're skilled in and kind and turn
Speaker 1: it into a source of income um on a bigger scale.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about something else to Matt. Another another
Speaker 1: thing that you need to do if you want to
Speaker 1: be a part of the positive shrinkage of the middle class,
Speaker 1: and that is gives a great of spending injury. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna call this positive shrinkage positive shrinkage. I think
Speaker 1: I think it's accurate right based on the day that
Speaker 1: we're saying that the shrinkage is leading to larger upper class,
Speaker 1: which is great. But the I think developing a sense
Speaker 1: of grit right is something else that would be helpful.
Speaker 1: You know, we actually did a whole episode back in
Speaker 1: the day about about how grittiness is one of the
Speaker 1: biggest indicators of your ability to improve your personal finances
Speaker 1: and the same thing is true if we're talking about
Speaker 1: improving your income getting more disciplined, is that the crux
Speaker 1: of ensuring that you're making progress, whether it's waking up
Speaker 1: earlier or reading more, you know, dictiving your habits to
Speaker 1: ensure that more of your money is going towards savings
Speaker 1: and investments. That's a huge part of changing your lot
Speaker 1: in life. And uh Socrates matt He said that the
Speaker 1: free individual is free only to the extent of his
Speaker 1: own self mastery. And I know for myself, I have
Speaker 1: at times been overly lazy, and I have missed out
Speaker 1: on opportunities because of it. Um and and yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. We little changes and positive new habit formations.
Speaker 1: They often start small, but they snowball into real progress
Speaker 1: over time. It's it's just like what you're talking about
Speaker 1: with investing, how a little bit can make a big difference.
Speaker 1: It seems like nothing at the beginning, but those baby
Speaker 1: steps they have a huge impact over the decades. And
Speaker 1: the same is true with the habits we with how
Speaker 1: we spend our time and with and with what we're consuming.
Speaker 1: How that can help us or hurt us. It can
Speaker 1: help us achieve what we want to or it can
Speaker 1: actually take us further away from what we're trying to achieve,
Speaker 1: right and aside from how it is that we can
Speaker 1: increase our incomes and and find ourselves advancing our station
Speaker 1: in life, I think it's good to point out to
Speaker 1: that the fact that like life is is pretty good
Speaker 1: right now. Like we're not trying to gloss over everything
Speaker 1: and say that everything's fine. Go back to your work,
Speaker 1: but think about how it is your grandparents grew up, um,
Speaker 1: because do you have it worse than they did, you know,
Speaker 1: backt seventy years ago? Uh? Like, seriously, do an honest
Speaker 1: assessment for a minute, because my guess is for almost
Speaker 1: everyone listening, your life is much better than their's, at
Speaker 1: least in terms of the creature come that we get
Speaker 1: to experience on a daily basis when we're guests Morgan Household.
Speaker 1: He talks about how we think of the nineteen fifties
Speaker 1: as being the the economic glory days. But if you
Speaker 1: had the chance, would you actually want to live back then?
Speaker 1: Because I highly doubt it. Would you step in a
Speaker 1: time machine transporter that would take you back there if
Speaker 1: it meant you couldn't return too unlikely? I know, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't I probably not. I mean honestly even just like yourself.
Speaker 1: But like the like small pieces of technology that we
Speaker 1: use on a daily basis, I think oftentimes are what
Speaker 1: are keeping us from thinking, oh, yeah, that that is
Speaker 1: a life that I would actually went to experience, because
Speaker 1: by basically every standard, the vast majority of Americans are
Speaker 1: better off now than they were back then. Uh, expectation inflation.
Speaker 1: That's actually a major reason why folks are less happy
Speaker 1: and why they assume that they are much worse off
Speaker 1: when statistically speaking, things are a lot better for the
Speaker 1: vast majority of folks. Yeah. Our friend Jack, who writes
Speaker 1: over at Young Money, wrote recently in a similar vein,
Speaker 1: and he basically said, life is the that it's ever been.
Speaker 1: Rates of extreme poverty have been plumbing. Right of the
Speaker 1: world's population is literate. It was only just like rattled
Speaker 1: off this laundry list of statistics will link to that
Speaker 1: article show notes even something as simple as a COVID
Speaker 1: vaccine like me that did not exist modern miracles a
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, sure, and the ability to develop it
Speaker 1: so quickly in the type of technology right that in
Speaker 1: the brain power that it took to be able to
Speaker 1: create that. Um, there are so many reasons, and I
Speaker 1: think when you put it in those dark terms, would
Speaker 1: you go back to would you trade your current life
Speaker 1: for for that life? Uh? In all likelihood the answers now.
Speaker 1: And it's so it's our belief that the American dream
Speaker 1: is is still alive and you're not only able to
Speaker 1: accomplish it by working seventy plus hours a week grinding
Speaker 1: as hard as you possibly can. It's it's not just
Speaker 1: for folks with a fancy education or for people earning
Speaker 1: six figures. In our uber connected age, it's it's easy to,
Speaker 1: I think, get down and out at about idiotic politicians,
Speaker 1: income inequality, and and the negative headlines that tend to
Speaker 1: dominate the news. And while the real world has real problems,
Speaker 1: many of us are far too focused on the things
Speaker 1: we can control. We're maybe buying into the negative sentiments
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Uh. Instead, we would say, let's turn the
Speaker 1: majority of our focus to things that we can influence
Speaker 1: as individuals and in realize that we've got more say
Speaker 1: over our futures then we often like to think. And
Speaker 1: some of these stats are actually showing us that a
Speaker 1: shrinking middle class isn't actually nearly as bad of a thing,
Speaker 1: and it actually might be a better thing than you'd
Speaker 1: like to think. And I think we would say that
Speaker 1: the vast majority of Found Money listeners can participate, can
Speaker 1: change their trajectory right by changing a few things about
Speaker 1: their lives. And um, we're again not easy, but I
Speaker 1: think it's refreshing to kind of dig into the data
Speaker 1: and see that there is actually a lot of positive
Speaker 1: news to behold, and that more of us can and
Speaker 1: are likely to participate in, like the economic progress of
Speaker 1: our country than maybe I think that they will. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think another part of it too, is
Speaker 1: like you're talking about some of the negative aspects that
Speaker 1: we become transfixed and you know, obsessed with. What's cool
Speaker 1: is that as we are able to develop ourselves as individuals,
Speaker 1: we can then eventually have impacts not only on on
Speaker 1: our finances, but the finances of our families, of our friends,
Speaker 1: and then eventually, yeah, our cities, our states, our countries,
Speaker 1: and hopefully uh far off down the road, there will
Speaker 1: be less problems. There will be ways for us to
Speaker 1: combat some of the things that seem to take so
Speaker 1: much of our time. Now. It's just I feel like
Speaker 1: so many, so many of us, myself included, at times
Speaker 1: want there to be answers and quick fixes now, especially
Speaker 1: on a large scale, when in fact, what we need
Speaker 1: to do is focus more on the local right, not
Speaker 1: only just developing ourselves, but then finding ways that we
Speaker 1: can look to improve our communities as well. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So when we do that, I think we're we're gonna
Speaker 1: more tangibly see the progress right in our own lives
Speaker 1: and the lives of people around us, And that just
Speaker 1: provides more encouragement. And then all of a sudden, you
Speaker 1: your beliefs and your attitudes have completely transformed. You feel
Speaker 1: at least great about the things that you have been
Speaker 1: accomplishing at home. When you think about the grand scale
Speaker 1: problems that you have basically zero influence over, um, it
Speaker 1: just makes you feel small. Um. But when you realize
Speaker 1: that there are other ways that you can impact people directly,
Speaker 1: it's empowering. So hopefully, Matt, this runs counter to a
Speaker 1: strain of pessimism. I feel like we're seeing um in
Speaker 1: our in our country right now. And again, it's not
Speaker 1: that there aren't negative things, but there are a lot
Speaker 1: of good things too, and they're you know, by tuning
Speaker 1: out some of those negative things. You're just life experience
Speaker 1: gonna be better. All right, that's true. Man, Let's at
Speaker 1: least now mentioned the beer that you and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: during this episode. Just one other by the way, Uh well,
Speaker 1: no one. Other evidence of the reality that things are
Speaker 1: getting better is our abundance of beer voices. If you
Speaker 1: look back just twenty five years ago, how many how
Speaker 1: many craft breweries were there in the United States? A
Speaker 1: hundred maybe max? Not enough? Yeah, now we have an abundance,
Speaker 1: which is but but we're drinking. Not that Stiegel is
Speaker 1: necessarily a craft brewery, although it is fun from time
Speaker 1: to time to go with one of these larger producers
Speaker 1: who make a really good beverage. Uh and this is
Speaker 1: a lemon rattler by Stiegel. I will go ahead and
Speaker 1: kick it off by saying that this sort of tastes
Speaker 1: like carbonated alcoholic lemonade, which I think can be a
Speaker 1: dangerous thing because like, you don't really it doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like you're having a beer, doesn't really feel like you're
Speaker 1: having a drink. It is quite delicious, quite refreshing on
Speaker 1: a hot summer day like we are experiencing at the moment.
Speaker 1: But I will say at times, I feel that Stiegel's
Speaker 1: rattlers can get a bit sweet. Uh, And for me
Speaker 1: at least, that's one thing that's like, I'm literally more
Speaker 1: of like a bud Light bud Light lime guy on
Speaker 1: the beach. I will drink those beers and I would,
Speaker 1: honestly for every five listeners just lost a lot of
Speaker 1: respect for you, Matt Hey. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of folks out there who would be like, yeah, I could,
Speaker 1: I could handle a bud Light lime when you're sitting
Speaker 1: out there on on a beach, because you and I
Speaker 1: like we've tried, we've we've tried having nicer beers out
Speaker 1: on the beach, and honestly like, the more basic you
Speaker 1: can go with the flavors, the more refreshing in the
Speaker 1: baking sun. You don't want some sort of ten per
Speaker 1: central ip a. You don't want something that's got a
Speaker 1: whole lot of complexity, Which is why I told the
Speaker 1: understand why this is also very refreshing out there. But
Speaker 1: for me, I mean, they don't put nutrition facts on beers,
Speaker 1: but I really would love to know the grams of
Speaker 1: sugar that are in this compared to something like a
Speaker 1: bud lightline because that's what I was drinking last week
Speaker 1: out on the beach, and I did not get tired
Speaker 1: of him. I'll say that, Okay, all right, well we're
Speaker 1: back in the real world now, Bud, So put those
Speaker 1: put those in the back of the fridge. I literally
Speaker 1: won't buy them again until next time until I up
Speaker 1: the beach. So I thought this was it was bright,
Speaker 1: but it also was laid back enough that and that
Speaker 1: it can be enjoyable and you can have a couple,
Speaker 1: which is nice and like to me, this ab allows
Speaker 1: you to do that. Yeah, this is the kind of
Speaker 1: beer that for Seltzer fans like they should try this, right,
Speaker 1: because I think it's like a better ocean of a
Speaker 1: fruited Seltzer um a fruited Rattler. So yeah, the Stiegel
Speaker 1: Rattler grape fruit is probably my favorite, but Lemons like
Speaker 1: a close second. Raspberry not not as good in my opinion,
Speaker 1: But it's a great beer. It's my like summer go too,
Speaker 1: and then I don't drink it for like ten months.
Speaker 1: Something great to pick up doll gets USU or you're
Speaker 1: sitting pool side and swing by the grocery store pick
Speaker 1: up one of those four packs. Yeah, you probably won't
Speaker 1: regret it, no doubt, But Joel, that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: buddy for this episode. Folks can find our show notes
Speaker 1: up on our website at how to money dot com.
Speaker 1: While you're there, go to Ford Slash Newsletter, where you
Speaker 1: can also sign up for the best personal finance newsletter
Speaker 1: in the world, does drop every Tuesday morning, chock full
Speaker 1: of actionable advice and interesting, helpful little tidbits to help
Speaker 1: you along your way to helping you climb that class ladder.
Speaker 1: If that's something you're interested in. Again, don't let that
Speaker 1: become the goal. But that can be the means to
Speaker 1: the goal, right like that can be a means to
Speaker 1: an end as we all are striving after more options
Speaker 1: and financial different levels of financial freedom. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. Until
Speaker 1: next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out, M M.