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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick, and it's our yearly Halloween Hangover listener

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Speaker 1: mail episode. We always get tons of great listener mail.

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Speaker 1: We have got an absolutely overflowing mail bag right now,

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Speaker 1: so much so that we decided we're gonna do too

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Speaker 1: listener mail episodes this week to catch up and frankly,

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Speaker 1: to help us get through a part of the year

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Speaker 1: that is always very tight and very busy. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this and then this is a good time to first

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Speaker 1: of all, to have one more heaping scoop of Halloween

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Speaker 1: right here in the gray zone between the end of

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Speaker 1: October and you know, the beginning of saying Thanksgiving and

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Speaker 1: Christmas like the full on holidays. Well, and we have

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Speaker 1: we have so much great content to read here. And

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Speaker 1: then after that it's gonna be it's gonna be all

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Speaker 1: Christmas around here. It's gonna be Holidays like like like

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Speaker 1: you've never seen it before. But also we've got some

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Speaker 1: weird science lined up for the next few weeks that

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Speaker 1: that you probably wouldn't believe, so you should be very excited,

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Speaker 1: all right, And I'm excited as well to have Carney

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Speaker 1: here with us, our mail bot who's been with us

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Speaker 1: the whole time, continually changing over the years, getting new

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Speaker 1: new augments, new programming, etcetera. And today is no different, right.

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Speaker 1: Carney seems to have been very interested in our episodes

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Speaker 1: about photography burned from the Mind's Eye, the idea of

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Speaker 1: projecting images onto film that a lot of supposed psychics

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Speaker 1: throughout the years have claimed to be able to do.

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Speaker 1: We talked about that in a couple of Halloween episodes,

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Speaker 1: and and Carney has really caught the bug. So now

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Speaker 1: instead of printing out listener mail as he normally does,

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Speaker 1: he projects it psychically robotically onto various bread products. So

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Speaker 1: we will be reading your listener mails burned from Carney's

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Speaker 1: Mind's Eye onto Tortilla's toast. PETA's all the like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's not supposed to be paying attention into the Invention

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Speaker 1: podcast listener mail, but I think he caught a few

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Speaker 1: regarding our episode on toast, and that may have also

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Speaker 1: led to this current obsession. Here we go, should we

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Speaker 1: jump right in, Robert, let's do it? What alright, This

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Speaker 1: first message comes to us from our listener Alex. This

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Speaker 1: is about the Burned from the Mind's Eye episode, and

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Speaker 1: Alex writes in Hi, Robert and Joe, I just listened

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Speaker 1: to the burn from the Mind's Eye podcast. A major

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Speaker 1: and in visual studies in college, and remember to study

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Speaker 1: about retinal mapping in the mid century. They showed a

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Speaker 1: monkey a simple image and placed a radioactive film directly

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Speaker 1: on the visual cortex with the monkey's brain exposed. It

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Speaker 1: was basically photosensitive paper, but was sensitive to the electrical

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Speaker 1: impulses of the brain. The results were a pretty accurate

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Speaker 1: neuronal map to the visual stimulus, but slightly distorted. Basically,

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Speaker 1: the retina is mapped specially onto the brain. While the

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Speaker 1: same process probably couldn't reproduce Garfield or a complex image,

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Speaker 1: you can actually get a picture to actually from the brain.

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Speaker 1: Since the occipital or visual cortex is involved in mental

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Speaker 1: imagery as well as in vision, it follows that with

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Speaker 1: technology from the fifties and sixties, you might be able

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Speaker 1: to make thoughtography of an imagined simple shape. That's assuming

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Speaker 1: the visual cortex response of an imagined image is mapped

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Speaker 1: the same as a visually stimulated response. So what's going

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Speaker 1: on here is we were discussing in the episode how

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Speaker 1: imagery is represented in the brain, and our proposition was

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Speaker 1: that there's not a screen inside the brain that the

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Speaker 1: brain watches imagery take place on that could be projected

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Speaker 1: straight out onto thoughtography. Uh, this sort of complicates it

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Speaker 1: somewhat now, I think as Alex is saying, there's no

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Speaker 1: way you could like find an image of Garfield somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the brain. That doesn't seem to exist even if

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Speaker 1: you're picturing Garfield. But there does seem to be some

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Speaker 1: correlation between what parts of the visual field are being

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Speaker 1: stimulated with various types of light and what parts of

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Speaker 1: the occipital cortex in the back of the head show

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Speaker 1: the most activity. So you can sort of map places

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Speaker 1: on the retina basically parts of the visual field of

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Speaker 1: things you're looking at, to certain parts of the brain

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Speaker 1: showing increased activity. And I think one consequence of this

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Speaker 1: is that if you show somebody like a very simple

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Speaker 1: black and white shape, you could almost sort of see

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Speaker 1: a version of that shape represented in brain activity in

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Speaker 1: the occipital cortex. So, yeah, it all seems to be

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Speaker 1: just a matter of you know, fine tuning the technology

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Speaker 1: and the data needed to translate this information. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: again this probably doesn't work as well, or almost certainly

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Speaker 1: doesn't work as well once the image has more complexity

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Speaker 1: to it. Especially, I think it makes a difference, you know,

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Speaker 1: once you consider talking talking about like the moving of

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Speaker 1: the focus of the eyes and all this. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you can represent parts of the retina, parts of the

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Speaker 1: visual field within a sort of uh a map of

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Speaker 1: the visual processing center of the brain. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: didn't know this before, so thank you so much for sharing, Alex.

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Speaker 1: This is really interesting. I still don't think this would

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Speaker 1: really make thoughtography anymore plausible, because, I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: multiple problems. Uh. Photography tends to project images as you

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Speaker 1: would take with a camera. And again this is not

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Speaker 1: you're You're not getting maps on the brain projecting complex images.

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Speaker 1: It's more sort of like rough correlations of areas of

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Speaker 1: the brain to parts of shapes that you would look at.

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Speaker 1: But and then also like how would the signal escape

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Speaker 1: the skull. The fact that people tended to do it

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Speaker 1: at a distance or with the thing in the front

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Speaker 1: of the head instead of in the back. I think

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Speaker 1: they're there are multiple reasons for saying that this, this

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Speaker 1: doesn't really make photography anymore plausible unless you were to say,

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Speaker 1: remove the skull and only look at extremely simple shapes

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Speaker 1: and accept very distorted versions of them as you're projected image. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it reminds me to how we've talked in the

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Speaker 1: past about how, you know, a lot of times we're

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Speaker 1: reaching for an idea of how psychic transmission of ideas

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Speaker 1: could occur, how I can get the contents of my

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Speaker 1: skull into your skull. And then we overlooked the fact

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Speaker 1: that we have this thing called language that does exactly that. Uh, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this might be just another bridge between minds, this one

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Speaker 1: though technological as opposed to linguistic exactly. Uh, Robert, do

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Speaker 1: you mind if I jump onto the next one, because

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Speaker 1: it's kind of related. So we were talking about the

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Speaker 1: question it was raised in one of the papers we

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Speaker 1: looked at of whether mental imagery could be unconsciously perceived.

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Speaker 1: Can you picture something without being conscious of perceiving it?

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Speaker 1: This is a strange question, And Robert, you said, well, wait,

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Speaker 1: could you even see something in with regular vision without

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Speaker 1: being conscious of it? And I answered that I thought

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Speaker 1: there was some evidence for this, like in the invisible

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Speaker 1: guerilla line of research. I seemed to recall there were

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Speaker 1: some things where like people wouldn't consciously note seeing a guerrilla,

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Speaker 1: but then they might be primed on the subject of

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Speaker 1: guerrillas afterwards, so like maybe some part of them had

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Speaker 1: seen it, but they weren't conscious of seeing it. But

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Speaker 1: after recording the episode, some listeners brought up the condition,

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Speaker 1: and I also thought of the condition that that I

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Speaker 1: should have mentioned there, which is blind site, which we

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Speaker 1: definitely should have thought of because we're both big fans

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Speaker 1: of the Peter Wattson novel where he invokes the concept.

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Speaker 1: But basically, blind site is a neurological condition in which

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Speaker 1: people can respond to visual stimuli behaviorally, and yet they

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Speaker 1: believe they are blind or blind in some particular part

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Speaker 1: of their visual field. So like you can, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: for example, somebody could toss a ball at you and

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Speaker 1: you could reach up and catch it, but you are

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Speaker 1: but you are not conscious of seeing the ball, like

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Speaker 1: you don't believe you can see it or have seen it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean certainly with the ball. I think we've all

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Speaker 1: had that, that situation where you're just suddenly catching the

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Speaker 1: ball or I've had. I had that situation when my

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Speaker 1: son was younger, where he he fell off of some

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Speaker 1: playground equipment and suddenly I was like holding him the foot, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know where it's It's just another in another part

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Speaker 1: of our mental machinery is kicking in to make that possible. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And so what I think this means is that it

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Speaker 1: seems to me the brain is perfectly capable of processing

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Speaker 1: visual imagery and reacting in some cases in some ways

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Speaker 1: without making that imagery available to the conscious part of

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Speaker 1: the brain that talks. So Yes, I think there's definitely

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Speaker 1: evidence that it's possible to see unconsciously with regular vision.

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Speaker 1: But that still leaves the other question unanswered, whether it's

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Speaker 1: possible to imagine visual imagery unconsciously? Can you picture Garfield

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Speaker 1: without knowing your picturing Garfield? And our next email addresses this.

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Speaker 1: So this is from our listener Tanya. Tanya says, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned the question can mental imagery be unconscious? I

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Speaker 1: have some experience concerning this question. Sometimes, when I read

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Speaker 1: a novel or play a rather boring game on the computer,

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Speaker 1: I suddenly become aware that my mind was busy the

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Speaker 1: last hour with understanding what I read and in the

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Speaker 1: same time picturing something completely unrelated. Normally it's a landscape

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Speaker 1: of some sort, something I know more or less well,

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Speaker 1: I move in this area, similar to the movement you

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Speaker 1: do when you use Google street View. I had this

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Speaker 1: experience long before Google and its maps was invented. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The pictures I produce are not put into words, but

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Speaker 1: stay completely visual until I become aware. Therefore, I would

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Speaker 1: call them unconscious. It happens that I come to places

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Speaker 1: I haven't been to physically in years, but as soon

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Speaker 1: as I see them again, I remember having been there

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Speaker 1: recently in my mind. Oh that's interesting, kind of creepy feeling.

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Speaker 1: But in the moment of picturing them, I was completely unaware.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm astounded how inaccurate my inner maps are, Like

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Speaker 1: all memories are, I guess. Fascinated listener from Germany Tanya. Interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So this this whole idea, and I think this is

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Speaker 1: why it was so perplexing when we talked about it

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Speaker 1: the first time. Is we really have to figure out

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Speaker 1: what we mean by being conscious of seeing something or

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Speaker 1: conscious of having a visual image of it. Does that

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Speaker 1: mean that I are we just talking about? Uh? It

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Speaker 1: occurring at all, are we talking about me having uh,

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Speaker 1: like a focused awareness of it, you know, uh, And

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's there's sort of room on a

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Speaker 1: scale between the two. Yeah, I mean it's kind of hazy.

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Speaker 1: I understand what Tanya is talking about here, like having

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Speaker 1: the idea that you retrospectively remember that you were thinking

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Speaker 1: about something, but you don't have the impression that you

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Speaker 1: were conscious of thinking about it when you were thinking

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Speaker 1: about it. Well, like, like, here's a question when you're

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Speaker 1: in the shower and you're having like shower thoughts, like,

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Speaker 1: are you conscious of those thoughts? Is this there's it's

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Speaker 1: not directed cognition perhaps, you know, but it's I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say that I am unconscious when I'm having you know,

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Speaker 1: various images and ideas rolling through my head, or if

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, staring off into space and daydreaming. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's weird. We almost think of consciousness is

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Speaker 1: is like the definitive property of directed cognition, right, But like,

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Speaker 1: if you are thinking about something, it's almost implied that

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Speaker 1: necessarily it's conscious, but maybe not. I don't know. Consciousness

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Speaker 1: is so weird again, It's well, let's move on to

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Speaker 1: the next listener mail that Karney has for us, because

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Speaker 1: this will add even more fuel to the fire. All right,

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Speaker 1: this one comes to us from Windy. Windy rides in

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Speaker 1: and says, hi, guys, First, the democ Oregan episode was tremendous. Second,

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Speaker 1: you can definitely unconsciously envisioned things I always thought I

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Speaker 1: thought in words, mostly until I started meditating. I was

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Speaker 1: surprised to realize that there was a background of images

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Speaker 1: accompanying the monologue. They impacted and augmented what I thought,

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Speaker 1: and I had no idea they were there. Meditation is neat,

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Speaker 1: So I love it that they brought up meditation because

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Speaker 1: that's also one of the things that I thought about,

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Speaker 1: the idea that, yes, when I engaging in a meditative state,

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Speaker 1: I will sometimes have well, very often, I think, have

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Speaker 1: engaged with visual imagery that arises, you know, um unsummoned,

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Speaker 1: you know. But when I really get down and start

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Speaker 1: thinking about it again, I'm asking myself, well, does that

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Speaker 1: mean that that I am unconscious of this image? Like

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Speaker 1: I am, I am aware of the imagery taking place.

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Speaker 1: It is, it is perceived by me, even if it

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Speaker 1: feels like I am less in control of it. But

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Speaker 1: does that mean that it's somehow always back there. It

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Speaker 1: gets gets really tricky. I feel like we end up

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Speaker 1: in a situation where we can't really see the forest

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Speaker 1: for the trees, you know, we get into that blind

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Speaker 1: brain effect. And to come back to meditation, I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course, when you're meditation is all about awareness and

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Speaker 1: about consciousness and changing the way that your awareness is focused,

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Speaker 1: taking it, you know, away from these things that you

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Speaker 1: would normally miss and focusing on something that is there

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Speaker 1: here in the present. Yeah, alright, here's another one. This

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Speaker 1: one comes to us from Skylar. Hey, guys, Skyler from Kansas.

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Speaker 1: Just finished listening to Burned from the Mind's Eye Part

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Speaker 1: two and the end. What you talked about a neural

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Speaker 1: network being able to draw mental images was really great.

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Speaker 1: It reminded me of a YouTube channel called data Bots.

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Speaker 1: It's d A d A dotta bots. I guess not

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Speaker 1: like data where a neural network is creating live death

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Speaker 1: metal and jazz music. Seven. I've actually heard this. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like AI generated death metal that's just streamed constantly.

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Speaker 1: Is it death metal jazz? Is that? I think these

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Speaker 1: are two different things, maybe two different channels. Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: the one I heard it sounded kind of like like

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Speaker 1: MS sugar, you know, sort of more a tonal, but

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Speaker 1: they're definitely funk elements in sugar though, But I don't

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Speaker 1: know about I don't know about jazz. Um Okay, well

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Speaker 1: this is the sounds interesting anyway, Scotler continues. The longer

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Speaker 1: I listened to it, the crazier and more real the

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Speaker 1: music sounds. Just thought you would like that, love the show,

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Speaker 1: keep it up. This is interesting because it touches on

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Speaker 1: I think this this really intriguing idea of the future

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Speaker 1: of creative AI, and that is that not that you

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Speaker 1: would have a machine that makes all your death metal

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Speaker 1: or a machine that makes all your jazz, it writes

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Speaker 1: all your books, etcetera. Um, I you know, maybe we'll

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Speaker 1: get to that point. But I think the more exciting

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Speaker 1: idea is that, of course you have humans using AI

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Speaker 1: to augment their existing talents and creative ideas. So someone

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Speaker 1: saying I want to make a jazzy death metal album, Um,

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Speaker 1: but I want to I want to break free from

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Speaker 1: sort of the you know, the boxes that are enclosing

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Speaker 1: me here, and then you might turn to creative AI

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Speaker 1: as a way to sort of discover where you could

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Speaker 1: break free and also then be able to rein it

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Speaker 1: in and say, well, I don't really want to go

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Speaker 1: in this direction or this action, but here's a direction

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Speaker 1: I never even thought off before. You could almost use

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Speaker 1: AI kind of like a creative each ing or something,

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Speaker 1: you know, like introducing elements of of random input for

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Speaker 1: you to sort through and make your own sense of. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And of course there have been creative methodologies like that

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Speaker 1: performer reminded of the cut Up Machine exactly approach to

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Speaker 1: fiction totally. All right. So this next message comes in

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Speaker 1: response to our episode I Drink Your Blood Type, which

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Speaker 1: which had one of our favorite skits in a while,

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Speaker 1: I think about the Blood Club. Yeah, and then it

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Speaker 1: was about blood types and also about the idea of

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Speaker 1: people believing in blood type personality correlations like some of

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Speaker 1: the blood type horoscopes and things blood blood type diets

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Speaker 1: and so forth. This was a really great piece of

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Speaker 1: feedback from our listener Annie. She says, Hey, guys, I

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Speaker 1: love the show, and I just listened to the episode

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Speaker 1: on blood. Being a geneticist and neuroscientist, I thought I

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Speaker 1: would add my two cents worth in relation to your

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Speaker 1: comments about blood type being linked to certain personality traits.

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Speaker 1: While blood type is simply inherited by a single gene, locusts.

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Speaker 1: Personality is complex and is an interaction of many genes

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Speaker 1: and environment. Certain learned behaviors can be passed down through

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Speaker 1: families and in fact by different populations or ethnic groups

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Speaker 1: at the same time as blood groups are inherited, so

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Speaker 1: by pure coincidence due to specific personality traits of population groups,

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Speaker 1: both blood type and these traits may track together. In

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Speaker 1: this case, the two would be correlated with each other,

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Speaker 1: but there's no evidence that one will cause the other.

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Speaker 1: The other way blood groups could possibly follow inherited personality

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Speaker 1: traits is if the genes are inherited together on the chromosome,

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Speaker 1: and this is more likely to happen if the genes

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Speaker 1: are closer in proximity on the chromosome, thus having less

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Speaker 1: chance of being separated during the stages of crossing over.

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Speaker 1: During myosis, the blood group gene is on the long

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Speaker 1: arm of chromosome nine. Interestingly, a genetic mutation making one

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Speaker 1: more susceptible to a certain type of dementia. C nine

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Speaker 1: O r F seventy two is also on chromosome nine,

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Speaker 1: albeit on the other end of the chromosome, thus requiring

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Speaker 1: an even number of crossings over to allow them to

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Speaker 1: be inherited together. This form of dementia can cause behavioral

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Speaker 1: variations which may cause personality changes decades before the dementia

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Speaker 1: sets in. Finally, in regards to the comment about personality

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Speaker 1: being related to the gut microbiome, uh, and this was

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about the plausibility of the thing.

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Speaker 1: We didn't think that that the blood type predictor of

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Speaker 1: personality was very plausible, but we did say there's a

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Speaker 1: surface level kind of plausibility because you know, things about

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Speaker 1: the gut microbiome can predict personality, at least potentially. Uh So, so, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it might seem to people why couldn't the blood predicted

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Speaker 1: as well? Uh? But any continues about the gut microbiome.

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Speaker 1: This is much more feasible since the biota in the

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Speaker 1: gut produced neurotransmitters which can affect mood and personality, and

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Speaker 1: the stems from in reology, when the gut and spinal

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Speaker 1: cord were in fact one organ called the neural crest.

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Speaker 1: The neural crest separates early during development, but the resulting

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Speaker 1: gut and central nervous system are still closely linked during life,

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Speaker 1: as can be seen when we get gut reactions to

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Speaker 1: certain brain stimuli. And we are now starting to see

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Speaker 1: evidence of how the types of foods we eat affect

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Speaker 1: the gut microbiome, which in turn can affect our mood

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Speaker 1: and general state of mind. Looking forward to continuing to

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Speaker 1: having my mind blown by you all the best, Annie, Well,

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Speaker 1: it was great to have a geneticist and neuroscientists chime

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Speaker 1: in on that. Oh yeah, I always love when when

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Speaker 1: you'll let their share your expertise with us. All right,

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Speaker 1: On that note, I think we should probably take our

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Speaker 1: first break, but when we come back, we will turn

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Speaker 1: flesh into salt. Thank thank Alright, we're back all right now.

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Speaker 1: This next message concerned some episodes that came before Halloween,

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Speaker 1: but since it also touches on some Halloween e stuff,

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Speaker 1: I think we're throwing it in with Halloween. Lat Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but plus the non Halloween episodes that they touched on

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Speaker 1: are also at least a little bit HALLOWEENI I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know how it goes. But this listener has written

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Speaker 1: in before and always sends great messages. This is from Jesser.

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Speaker 1: Jesse writes, Hey, guys, I wanted to write in to

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Speaker 1: share some thoughts on some recent episodes, along with a

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Speaker 1: little bit of monster history since it's getting close to October.

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Speaker 1: In the Flesh into Salt episodes, you talked about how

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Speaker 1: Lot's wife might have been inspired by natural formations, But

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Speaker 1: what could have been the inspiration for the story of

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Speaker 1: Sodom and go Mora as a whole. While I'm not

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Speaker 1: a scholar of the Hebrew Bible, I have a theory

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Speaker 1: it's a bit of Bronze Age sci fi, going off

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Speaker 1: of Isaac Asimov's definition of sci fi as stories which

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Speaker 1: deal with human response to new technology. Maybe Sodom and

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Speaker 1: Gomorrah is a pastoral culture's idea of city has gone

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Speaker 1: too far, where urbanization has destroyed the custom of hospitality.

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Speaker 1: If you start looking at Hebrew Bible stories through this lens,

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Speaker 1: the Tower of Babble Become is a cautionary tale about

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Speaker 1: monumental buildings, Shadrack Mishak and a Ben to Go a

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Speaker 1: story about smelting furnaces taken too far, and Joseph interpreting

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Speaker 1: the Pharaoh's dreams at parable about the importance of storing

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Speaker 1: surplus grain. These stories would have entered the oral tradition

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Speaker 1: when these ideas were still new then preserved when written

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Speaker 1: down as religious text. This is all speculation, but ancient

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Speaker 1: people's could have expressed their anxieties about new technologies through

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Speaker 1: stories the same way we do today. I love this idea.

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Speaker 1: I mean again, this is it's speculative. You can't like

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Speaker 1: know this is the case, really, but you could look

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Speaker 1: for clues in this and the stories. Maybe. I I

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Speaker 1: like the idea that a lot of Bible stories and

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Speaker 1: traditional myths might in fact be like three thousand year

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Speaker 1: old episodes of Black Mirror. Yeah. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: we know about about the way we think about the

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Speaker 1: passage of time. We know that, yes, we are always

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Speaker 1: anxious about new technologies as they have presented. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: older generation is always suspicious of the younger generation and

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Speaker 1: or fearful of them. We know that technology has profound

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Speaker 1: effects on culture, that changes culture constantly. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: mean this, You know, on on the surface, this sounds

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Speaker 1: very plausible. And now I don't know to what extend.

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Speaker 1: Anyone has ever explored the concept of certainly of of

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Speaker 1: mythology and folklore as as sort of primitive science fiction

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Speaker 1: or prescience fiction sci fi. But I would be interested

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Speaker 1: to learn more about about how this might work. This

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Speaker 1: sounds like this could be a fascinating book, and if

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Speaker 1: it hasn't already been written, alright, so um Jesser continues quote,

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Speaker 1: I also have a thought about a part of what

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Speaker 1: makes the vantage Mind manuscripts so alluring. It's the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's so mundane. You expect a hoax or an

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Speaker 1: invention to be more flamboyant, to call more attention to itself.

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Speaker 1: But as strange as the manuscript is, it doesn't go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it seems to get less interesting towards the end,

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Speaker 1: where you'd expect some sort of punchline or absurd conclusion.

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Speaker 1: This is This is a great point. I think this

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Speaker 1: is one of the reasons that um House of Leaves

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Speaker 1: is so so convincing at times, because I had that

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Speaker 1: experience where I felt that it towards the end it

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Speaker 1: gets more just reference referential, you know, and and perhaps

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Speaker 1: less engaging, but in a way that makes it more

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Speaker 1: it feels more authentic in that regard. Yeah, totally, they continue.

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Speaker 1: The Codex Serafinitus makes a good comparison because it's much

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Speaker 1: more obviously playful and fantastic you don't have to decipher

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Speaker 1: its text to understand the point. But because the Vontage

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Speaker 1: Manuscript appears to be so straightforward and serious about its subject,

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Speaker 1: people assume there must be some meaning behind it. The

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Speaker 1: idea that it might mean nothing is existentially unsatisfying. I

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Speaker 1: can totally see this. Yeah. The and the Codex Serafinitus

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Speaker 1: is a good point in comparison. We brought it up

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Speaker 1: in the Bondage Manuscript episode because it is something that

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Speaker 1: we know was intentionally created as like an art project.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't actually have a meaning, is just there to

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Speaker 1: be interesting and be you know, fun. Yeah. And in

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Speaker 1: case in point, there are multiple pages of in it

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Speaker 1: that you would potentially like frame on the wall, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it looks like a work of art, whereas

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Speaker 1: the Vonish manuscript and not every page is really like

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Speaker 1: that interesting without knowing what it is or in fact

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Speaker 1: what it is not. Yeah, And a lot of the

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Speaker 1: more interesting pages come like, I don't know, two fifths

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Speaker 1: of the way through, Like it's in the like balneological sections,

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Speaker 1: the stuff with the weird baths and the like tentacle

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Speaker 1: pipes and stuff that that's where things get really weird.

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Speaker 1: And then after that it descends more into like I think,

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Speaker 1: after that it's like astrology, and then you get the

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Speaker 1: recipes towards the end, which is by far the least

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Speaker 1: interesting part. Yeah, whenever you're reading a story, especially if

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Speaker 1: you're watching a movie that that has a like a

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Speaker 1: dark book that shows up a strange book, generally it

429
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: looks like they can just turn to any page and

430
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: it's instantly monstrous or weird or you know, Eldric and

431
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: so forth. Though, but uh, you know, I like the

432
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: idea that a true mystery book would only its mysteries,

433
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: would only present themselves if you you knew what you're

434
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: looking for, you know. So yeah, I would take this

435
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: as at least a little bit of evidence more to

436
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: the side that it does have a real meaning, because

437
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: it gets less interesting as it goes on. You'd expect

438
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: if it were a hoax, that would be structured to

439
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: have more of a climax of weirdness. Absolutely so, Jesser continues, Uh,

440
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: they make a future episode suggestion regarding uh created languages

441
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: and so forth, which I think could be interesting. Uh,

442
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: and then there's this quote. Lastly, I wanted to toss

443
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: in some Halloween history about which is we all know

444
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: the stereotype of which is as older women wearing pointy

445
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: hats during bubbling cauldrons, flying on brooms, and hanging out

446
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: with cats. Where did this come from? It all goes

447
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: back to beer beer all right, let's hear hear all

448
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: about it. In fourteenth and fifteenth century Europe, brewing beer

449
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: was considered a woman's job, part of keeping the house.

450
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: Being a beer beer brewer was one of the few

451
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: professions acceptable for older married women to have, and when

452
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: the witch craze began, these women were the most targeted demographic,

453
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: both for social reasons seen as being jealous of women

454
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: who were married and had children, and and economic reasons

455
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: lacking the resources of a father's or husband's family to

456
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: protect them. The traditional brewers hat was tall and pointed

457
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: with a wide brim, like an anvil for a blacksmith.

458
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: The traditional symbol of a brewer was the broom. Brewers

459
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: kept cats as mousers to protect their stores of grain,

460
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 1: and brewing beer does involve some stirring of bubbling cauldrons.

461
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: Illustrations of typical witches had all of these traits, and

462
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: people at the time would understand as signifying beer brewers.

463
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: Over time, the cultural context was lost, but the signifiers remained,

464
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: leaving us with the modern image of the witch. Thanks

465
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: for all the work you do in making my favorite

466
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: poly math podcast I have. I've done some reading about

467
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: which is before I haven't even run across this beer

468
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: brewer argument. Yeah, I don't know what I think. Like,

469
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: I like the case you make here. I feel like

470
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: I'd have to do the research and check all this

471
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: for myself. But I'm definitely intrigued, Yes, sir, I mean it.

472
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: It does sound concise in a way that tends to

473
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: make me suspicious of of anything that's explaining a cultural

474
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: motif for a mythical monster. But I mean, I'm I'm

475
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: open to the idea that perhaps this is at least

476
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: part of the story. I mean, I definitely have read

477
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: about beer brewing in the medieval or Renaissance period being

478
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: primarily the work of women. Um, I think that is

479
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: true about these specific things like the symbol of the

480
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: broom and the hat and all that. I'd have to

481
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: check that out, but yeah, I'm intrigued. Yeah, I mean,

482
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: the broom was already going to be a domestic symbol

483
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: um anyway, and the hat, I don't know. You know,

484
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: the hat is maybe an area of the witch motif

485
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: that I haven't looked at a lot. Uh. It seems

486
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: like things that i've I've read have dealt more with

487
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: the broom. But thanks as always, jes He. This next

488
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: one comes from Billy. This is just general Halloween male

489
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: and concerns cryptids. Billy writes, Hi, this never really took off,

490
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: but earlier in the year, I made a Twitter bot

491
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: that generates random descriptions of cryptids every few hours. You're

492
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: speaking our language, Billy. It draws on banks of existing animals,

493
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: bits of anatomy, adjectives, and a few other variables to

494
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: produce unique and entertaining descriptions. You can find it at

495
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: twitter dot com slash Cryptid Factory. Here's one of my favorites.

496
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: Lord Alfress of Sweden has a tortoise and a glipto.

497
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Don's delightful inverted front portion, no rear, and the body

498
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: of a marlin the size of an eraser. I'd love

499
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: to know if this brings you any joy. Thanks Billy. Uh, Yeah,

500
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: I I like this idea. I think this is what

501
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: Twitter is good for, is making bots like this. Yeah,

502
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always for any you know, listing of

503
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: mythical creatures and descriptions of their you know, their physical characteristics.

504
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: So I'm all in this, springs me joy. I just

505
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: looked up some of the most recent tweets, says of

506
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: the moment we're recording this. Here's one picture the widened

507
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: head of a camel spider, but also an ammonite's bosom,

508
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: commonly seen dragging herself past the undersides of leaves. Not bad.

509
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: One more, she has a shrimps select flavor, the head

510
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: of an evil mouse, a polar bear's waist, and the

511
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: back sections of just a couple of lynx is once

512
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: seen slithering toward carpets. The fluff of a gerbil will

513
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: sporadically also feature. You know that this reminds me of

514
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: are these these children's books? There was one that I

515
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: had when I was a kid, and there's a a

516
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: newer book that has the same concept that I also love,

517
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: as I think far superior art. But each page is

518
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: a different creature, and each page has also been cut

519
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: into three sections so that you can flip and match

520
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: and mismatch the different parts of a creature's body. And

521
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: then at least some versions of this design also include

522
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: text that does the same thing, so you can you

523
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: can just go straight through the book and get this monster,

524
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: than this monster, than this monster, or you can mix

525
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: and match and create, you know, a wider variety of

526
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: strange hybrids. I love this. I've had this book as

527
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: a kid, and I wish I could remember the name

528
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: of the at least the newer because there's a really

529
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 1: beautiful new book that has the same concept the one

530
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: I had as a kid, which I also I haven't

531
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: I literally have not seen since my childhood, had more

532
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: cartoonish art. But still I remember being really captivated by

533
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: it because there were all these different possibilities within it,

534
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: And really that gets to the heart of so much

535
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: monster creation. It is the hybridity of the of the thing.

536
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: It is the bringing together these different forms. All right,

537
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: here's another bit of a listener mail, and this one

538
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: comes to us from Adam, related to our anthology of

539
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: horror episodes, especially the most recent installments. So last year

540
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: we did volume one. This year we did volume two

541
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: and three. So Adam says, Dear Robert and Joe, I

542
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: find myself writing to you a lot lately. I think

543
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: it means that you've been hit ting on some especially

544
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: engaging topics for me. I wanted to write this email

545
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: in response to the recent anthology of horror episode in

546
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: which you discussed shadow play. This was an episode of

547
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: The Twilight Zone, right. This was the one about the

548
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: guy who claimed he was dreaming everyone around him and

549
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: if they sent him to the electric chair as he

550
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: had been sentenced to, they would all disappear because he

551
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: had stopped dreaming. So Adam continues. Uh discussed shadow play,

552
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: metaphysical solop sism, and the idea that separate consciousnesses may

553
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: exist in the form of other characters within our dreams.

554
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: I have something resembling firsthand experience in this matter, and

555
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: it was terrifying. Some of the details are hazy, as

556
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: it happened in a dream about three years ago. Thankfully,

557
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: I wrote an account soon after that that I was

558
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: able to refer to. I have not engaged in lucid

559
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: dreaming in some time, but I used to practice it,

560
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: and I've experienced it to varying degrees of success. One night,

561
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: I became lucid in a dream where I was in

562
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: a crowded room with a close friend who I will

563
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: call Ben. I was very excited and decided to tell Ben,

564
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: this is all a dream and you're a character in

565
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: my dream. At first, Ben was dismissive, saying that there

566
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: was no way he was a dream, and so forth,

567
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: very similar to many of the characters in shadow play.

568
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: This is the point where I wish that I had

569
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: decided to use my lucidity for something else, but unfortunately

570
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: I decided to try to convince Ben that it was

571
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: a dream. He did not take kindly to it. In

572
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: an instant, all the other people in the room with

573
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: us turned in unison to face me and stared with

574
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: expressionless faces. I somehow knew they had all become some

575
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: kind of hive mind with Ben as their leader. Ben's

576
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: demeanor then shifted from neutral and carefree to sinister and hostile.

577
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't just his physical demeanor, but I felt as

578
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: if his negative energy was filling the room. Although I

579
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: was lucid, I got the impression that it was he

580
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: who was in control of the dream. He then began

581
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: to attack me verbally. He talked about a painful rejection

582
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: that I had recently experienced, played on some insecurities that

583
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: I had been experiencing, and told me secrets that I

584
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: have never told anyone. Then he stopped, gave me a

585
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: menacing grin, and said, that's right, I know everything about you.

586
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: At that moment, the crowd moved in unison towards me

587
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: with angry faces, and I awoke with a fright. I

588
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: took a while to get back to sleep, and thankfully,

589
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: when I did it, Ben was not waiting for me.

590
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: A few days later, I posted this story to the

591
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: subreddit Lucid Dreaming, and someone in the comments suggested that

592
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: that this may have been the non dominant hemisphere of

593
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: my brain trying to communicate with the dominant hemisphere. I

594
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: don't know if this is the case, but I fully

595
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: believe that during the interaction there were two separate consciousnesses

596
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: existing in my dreaming mind, and one of them, Ben

597
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: was hostile toward the other me. Regardless of the explanation,

598
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: I would not recommend trying to confront sollop si um

599
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: by telling people they don't exist, even if it's true.

600
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: Uh uh. It would have been far better to keep

601
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: that knowledge to myself far away out of a lucid adventure.

602
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: Best regards Adam Well, I don't know, uh, I don't

603
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: know if I can back up that explanation of it

604
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: being the non dominant hemisphere. But that is one of

605
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: the most horrifying dreams I've ever heard of, because it's

606
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: sort of it has implications that go beyond the dream, right,

607
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: It's like one of the few cases where you could

608
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: imagine a dream actually representing some threat that persists after

609
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: the dream is over. Yeah. And then interesting too that

610
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: like that basically lucidity has been introduced to a certain

611
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: extent within the dream, but then there's still you know

612
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: that the dream characters still have weight, and still have

613
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: have power, and seem to have even uh, you know,

614
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: some state of a mind of their own, which is

615
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: uh yeah, which is interesting and potentially terrifying. Here's the

616
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: question I wonder, Adam, why you thought that Ben was

617
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: conscious and not just like a hostile agent that you

618
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: were imagining in your dream as you would often imagine

619
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: the hostile agent. I mean, we imagine hostile agents in

620
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: our dreams all the times, things chasing us and and

621
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: all this. I introduced the possibility in that episode that

622
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: these other agents we imagine could in some sense be conscious,

623
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: because our minds are possible of anxiousness. You know, we're

624
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: imagining them. So maybe the brain is using some sort

625
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: of its consciousness potential in these separate simulated agents that

626
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: it creates, but there's no way there's like, while I

627
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: can't rule out that possibility, I don't know of strong

628
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: evidence that that's the case. But then it comes back

629
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: to what we were discussing too. You could say, well,

630
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: this is this doesn't mean be was conscious. This just

631
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: means that you, you're sleeping self was engaging in some

632
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: level of theory of mind. But as we discussed what

633
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: a theory of mind is creating some you know, semi

634
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: like low resolution conscious model of what we think another

635
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: person is thinking. Yeah, again, it's like, it's hard to

636
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: rule that out as far as we know. But but

637
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: I don't know of any strong evidence that indicates it.

638
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: But you seem to think that's the case. Maybe it's

639
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: just because if a if another agent that we imagine

640
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: in a dream or something is frightening and lucid and

641
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: real enough, and especially in this case, because it knows it,

642
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: it proclaims to know everything about you. Uh, maybe that

643
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: just naturally leads us to think it's conscious, kind of

644
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: the same way that we start to think robots are conscious.

645
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: If they're sufficiently humanoid. Does that make sense? Yes? But Adam,

646
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: if you if you have other reasons for thinking that

647
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: this been in your mind was actually a separate, truly

648
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: conscious entity, I would be interested in hearing what your

649
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: reasons are for thinking that. All right, here's another quick one.

650
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: This one comes to us from d D says love

651
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: the episode one bit of Barry Nelson trivia. Barry Barry Nelson,

652
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: to remind everybody, was the the actor who played the

653
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: character Ulman in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. When did Barry

654
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: Nelson come up in the anthology episode? He was in

655
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: the episode of Monsters Far Below, So he played the

656
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: lead in that that episode. This is the and this

657
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: is the one where he's you know, fighting the Googles

658
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: and so forth. But he was a longstanding TV and

659
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: film actor who is probably most famous for being in

660
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: The Shining in that scene where he's a Jack Nicholson's

661
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: characters there for a job interviet And in the moment

662
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: I accidentally confused him with Barry Sullivan, who was in

663
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: Planet of the Vampire. Yes, yeah, So anyway, h D

664
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: shares this one bit of Barry Nelson trivia. He was

665
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: the first actor to play James Bond and an adaptation

666
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: of Casino Royal, which was an episode of that of

667
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: a nineteen fifties TV show called Climax, which was also

668
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: an anthology. I've never seen that, so this apparently even

669
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: pre dates the Was it Peter Sellers who played James

670
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: Bond and like a farcical adaptation of Casino Royal before

671
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: they made dr No, Yeah he did. I went ahead

672
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: and look this up just to make sure, and sure enough,

673
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: Barry Nelson played James Bond and guess who played the villain?

674
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, Peter Lorii, Peter Nice. Yes, So I

675
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: kind of want to come back and check this out.

676
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: This would be in nicing to say I've never seen this,

677
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: but I'm obviously I'm a fan of the two leads there.

678
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: I love that I can get a Peter Laurie and

679
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: Christopher Lambert out of the same impression. It's basically the

680
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: same voice that only just the face is more handsome

681
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,479
Speaker 1: in the French model. When I also wanted to share

682
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: something that didn't come in as an email but was

683
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: shared on the Stuff to Blow your Mind Facebook discussion

684
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: module by a listener who I don't since this discussion module,

685
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if she'd want to be named or not,

686
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: so I'll just leave her name off for now, um,

687
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: since we didn't discuss that ahead of time, But but

688
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to share because she had some interesting feedback.

689
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: She said, just listen to the Anthology of Horror, Part two,

690
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: episode and I have some comments on the discussion you

691
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: had at the end about multiple consciousness is in one

692
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: mind as someone with dissociative identity disorder, This is exactly

693
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: what is going on for me, or at least the

694
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: only way I can describe it. It isn't a far

695
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: out speculation. It's my lived experience and I don't have

696
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: any communication with the other parts, but other people do.

697
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: And my parts leave clues like notes or cuts or

698
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: leftovers of food I never would have wanted to eat.

699
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: Each of these parts is in a way, a separate consciousness,

700
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 1: with its own reaction to events, own memories, and even

701
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: own favorite pizza topping. And your mini Carl Sagan simulation

702
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: would be what is known as an introject an alter

703
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: a part that exists in you and has its own experiences,

704
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: but is based on something in the outside world that

705
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: seemed to possess enough of the traits needed for survival

706
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: that the mind created it. Wow. I obviously may not

707
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: have everything right here, and I'm not speaking for anyone

708
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: except me, and I'm in no way speaking of the

709
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: experiences of other people with d I D or similar.

710
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: It just seemed odd you didn't bring this up in

711
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: your discussion. This was a really great point, and UH,

712
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: I actually had a back and forth with UH with

713
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: this listener on the subject. The main difference, UH, the

714
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: dissociative identity disorder didn't come up when I was thinking

715
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: about this is we were considering if it's possible for

716
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: the mind to simultaneously have more than one consciousness existing,

717
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: like in your dream. Could it be possible that both

718
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: you with your regular mind, your you know, your primary

719
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: mind are conscio us in the dream, And then also

720
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: the brain is generating some separate conscious entity, maybe a

721
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: kind of like less conscious or lower resolution conscious entity,

722
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, and then so there could be

723
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: like two minds generated by the same brain simultaneously. Yeah.

724
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: I mean, for starters, I think that if we were

725
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: we would want to give a like a full proper

726
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: deep dive into into this UH topic. If we were

727
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: to to to discuss h discussed in the future. But

728
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: this also reminds me once again. Blindside, the novel by

729
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: Peter Watts, has a character in it that has multiple

730
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: personalities as I recall where they've through some level of

731
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: I can't remember that had been partially engineered or not.

732
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: But are you remembering this? Yeah, I seem to recall

733
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: that it was a person who had been uh, you know,

734
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: in this sci fi scenario, had been had had this

735
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: done intentionally for some kind of reason, like like maybe

736
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: having different kinds of expertise in the rain. Yeah, that

737
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: sounds right. Yeah, uh And and I just wanted to

738
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 1: say also in the responses that the same listener says,

739
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: uh that I know there's such thing as d I

740
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: D with altars being co conscious, but but they haven't

741
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: personally experienced it. And so I think this is worth

742
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: revisiting in a future show. Yeah, I think so too.

743
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: By the way, Tiny Carl Sagan. In my brain, I've

744
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: tried to imagine what it's favorite pizza would be, and

745
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely Hawaiian pizza. It's definitely ham and pineapple.

746
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: I don't know why I have nothing to back that up.

747
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: With but for some reason that seems right. And as

748
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: for the tiny Terence McKenna, can you guess what his

749
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: favorite topping is. Oh, it's gotta be a root pesto.

750
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: I know, I know what you're gonna be mushrooms. Of course,

751
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: it's obviously mushrooms. But I don't know. That's a That's

752
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: an interesting that like that in of itself is an

753
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: interesting question though, because, especially with the Carl Sagan one,

754
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: it's like, to a certain extent, I do have this

755
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,040
Speaker 1: kind of like tiny, you know, conception of who the

756
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: character is and what they like, even if I've never

757
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: stopped for a second to wonder what kind of pizza

758
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: the real life Carl Sagan preferred, or if he ever

759
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: spoke about it. What do you want to read this

760
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: message from Jim in New Jersey? Yes, absolutely all right.

761
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: This one comes to us from Jim and they write,

762
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: I have another TV show about dreams and reality. It

763
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: was the two thousand twelve limited series NBC show Awake.

764
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: Jason Isaacs. Jason Isaacs Always Traffic portrays the police detective

765
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: Michael Britton. The show begins with Brittain and his teenage

766
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: son grieving the death of their wife mother in a

767
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: car accident that involved the entire family. The next morning,

768
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: Britain awakens and finds his wife repainting the house to

769
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: occupy her to help with her grief and the death

770
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: of their son in the same accident. Brittain is living

771
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: two contradictory realities. Each morning, when he awakes, his day

772
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: flips to the other reality. One is where his son

773
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: survived the accident, and one is where his wife does.

774
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: He has a police department psychologist assigned in each reality.

775
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: He tells each of his duality, and both assure him

776
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: that his other reality is the dream, but they can't

777
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: really prove it. Each assumes his vivid dream is some

778
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: form of denial. Beatie Wong does a fantastic job as

779
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: one of the psychologists, But then again, Wong does a

780
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: fantastic job in every performance. To me, he'll always be

781
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: Henry Wu Yeah, alright, anyway, Jim continues. It was an

782
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: entertaining series, but not super sophisticated. Each reality had a

783
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: different color palette, making it easier to keep track of

784
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: where Britain was. The show does reveal which reality is

785
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: which by the end, sort of as for the Twilight series,

786
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: episode wouldn't the people in a dream disappear when the

787
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: dreamer wakes up, whether electrocuted or just awakening. Normally, I

788
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: think that, of course would be the case, But I

789
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: don't know that. It's like Twilight Zone logic, right, Yeah,

790
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: you got to emphasize the most dramatic elements. As for

791
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: our Descartes argument that we can't try star senses and

792
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: the only thing we can depend upon is their own reasoning.

793
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: I'm even starting to doubt that you've discussed consciousness before.

794
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: Where does it exist? The brain is made up of neurons,

795
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: which don't do much individually. When the number of firing

796
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: input synapses crosses the threshold, the neuron triggers its outmost synaps,

797
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: triggering other synapses. The brain is not much more than

798
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: a massively complex adding machine. Maybe the Carts would have

799
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: been more correct and stating I think therefore I some

800
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: or in Latin uh coquito orgo am. Even though I

801
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: can definitely perceive my consciousness, I sometimes wonder if it's

802
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: just a behavior that emerges from all of these neurons

803
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: firing uh ps. I wish I could take credit for

804
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: the some am flip in the Decards quote it's from

805
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: godal escher Bach by Douglas Hofstadter. Okay, going back to

806
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: the to the dream thing, how he's saying, you know,

807
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: whether whenever he wakes up, the people will disappear, whether

808
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: he's electrocuted or not. Uh, maybe it's just grant that

809
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: the main guy in the episode being selfish and saying

810
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be electrocuted, and that's the reason

811
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: he's telling people. He wouldn't bother telling them. Also, if

812
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: you just let me hang out here for a while,

813
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: eventually I'll wake up and you'll all disappear. As for

814
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: consciousness being an emergent phenomenon of enough neurons firing, I mean,

815
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: I think I think that's one of the standard models

816
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: that people propose. So yeah, I think that's that's entirely plausible.

817
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm very interested by this NBC show That Awake. I

818
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: may have to go revisiting it. I haven't seen it

819
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: came one. Maybe it came out a little before it's time.

820
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: It's sounding like, yeah, alright, on that note, we're going

821
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: to take one more break and then we'll be right back.

822
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Alright, We're back, all right. This

823
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: next email being burned onto a tortilla for us. Here

824
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: comes from our listener Rowan, and just a warning if

825
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: if you've got kids listening or something. This one mentions

826
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: the use of psychedelics. Dear Robert and Joe. I've been

827
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: meaning to sit down and write to you for a

828
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: while now, but after your recent episode on driving and

829
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: your Brain, I felt like I had to get on it.

830
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: This was one of the ones we did in October.

831
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: We sort of talked about Christine, we talked about the

832
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: psychological effects of driving. Rowan rights, I drive for nine

833
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: to ten hours a day, and your show was the

834
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: first one I found when I was introduced to podcasts

835
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: about three years ago, and you've been on my drive

836
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: playlist ever since. Oh well, very happy to be there.

837
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: First off, I want to thank you for the work

838
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: you do. You guys are incredibly educational and inspiring. Your

839
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: episode on urban evolution, probably two years ago at this point,

840
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: is the reason I decided to pick my degree back

841
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: up and graduate, and is the reason I plan on

842
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: declaring a major in forestry and a minor in urban planning.

843
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: Great to hear. I love hearing stuff like that. Warms

844
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,359
Speaker 1: my heart. Rowan continues in your Driving episode, you talk

845
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: about tool use and how it can alter our perception

846
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: of distance and size. Anecdotally, I've definitely noticed this in

847
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: an odd way. I drive a large cargo van at

848
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: work and have a rather small personal car that I

849
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: rarely drive, as I walk most everywhere. On the times

850
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: that I do drive, my brain assumes that I'm in

851
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: my van, as in I see my car as being

852
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: much larger. The roadways feel smaller than, say, after a

853
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: vacation where I am away from the van for long periods.

854
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: Imagine if you will watching someone parallel park a Corolla

855
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: as if it were a box truck. That that also

856
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: sounds like a great rod Sterling rod Sterling introduction to

857
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: Twilight zentner Ni Gallery. Imagine if you will watching someone

858
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: parallel park a Corolla as if it were a box truck.

859
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: It couldn't happen, but it could the Twilight Zone. Okay,

860
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: on with the Mail. Another of your episodes that I

861
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: feel I should write in about is your show on

862
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: the split Brain. I have damage to the left hemisphere

863
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: of my brain from what my doctor described as a

864
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: stroke in the third trimester of pregnancy, which interrupted the

865
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: development of the right side of my body and caused

866
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: he like patches of no activity on my m R eyes.

867
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: For a long time, I really only considered how this

868
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: damage had affected me in a physical way. Listening to

869
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: your episodes along with one other shout out to you

870
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: are not so smart if for some reason you need

871
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: a new podcast, really got me thinking about how it

872
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: would have affected my cognitive function. There is a feeling

873
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: I have at times when I am struggling to find

874
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: a word, listen to an explanation someone is giving, or

875
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: think through a problem to try to explain it. It

876
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: feels like the thought is hitting a blockage, similar to

877
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: the feeling of having something on the tip of your tongue,

878
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: but slightly different. It's not that I'm trying to remember something,

879
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: more that I've already remembered it, but I can't say it.

880
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: I suffer from fairly persistent depression and anxiety. However, I

881
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: often feel the physical effects of them and am unable

882
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: to identify the source or even the emotion itself. At times,

883
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: it feels as if my brain gets stuck when trying

884
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: to figure out the reaction my body is having, an

885
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: doesn't quite get to communicating it with my conscious self.

886
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: If that makes sense. Okay, interesting. I mean I think

887
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: some of that just matches up with just normal cognition,

888
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: or at least what my brain assumes his normal cognition.

889
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: But other aspects of that might be you know, singular

890
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: to this condition. Yeah, we did an episode on the

891
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: tip of the tongue phenomenon not too long ago, and

892
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: if you've been listening for three years you probably heard

893
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: that one. Then really knows And I guess this next

894
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: comment comes in response to the fact that we did

895
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: that psychedelic series. The last thing I wanted to mention

896
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: in this long winded email is that, well, I did

897
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: LSD a while back, and it was a hoot. Some

898
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: friends and I spent the day in the yard with

899
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: our dog and had a wonderful time. The one major

900
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: thing I remember was feeling a connectedness to people I

901
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: was with. If you can imagine the feeling of the

902
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: way trees in a forest are connected through microrizal networks

903
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: as or my corpisal. I'm not sure how you pronounced that. Yeah,

904
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: I think we've touched we I can't remember if we've

905
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: touched on. Sorry, just keep meaning to touch on this more.

906
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: I think it came up a little bit in the mushrooms. Uh,

907
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: in the Psychedelics episodes, the uh, you know, the the

908
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: fungal networks to connect these trees and the and some

909
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 1: of the some really interesting work going into too, looking

910
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 1: at this sort of communication that occurs, and we can

911
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 1: come back and go deep on that sometime. But finally,

912
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: Rowan rights, As I'm writing this, I'm also starting to

913
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: get curious as to how hemispheric brain damage would alter

914
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: a psychedelic experience. Huh, yeah, I don't know anything about that. Yeah,

915
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that I've seen that question

916
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: asked before. I would be surprised if there's not some

917
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: kind of ongoing research about that. Yeah, because as we

918
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: discussed like split brains were you know, or anytime you

919
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: have a brain that has, you know, suffered damage of

920
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: some sort asymmetrically affected. Yeah, like that's going to be

921
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: very useful to looking at some sort of a neurological questions.

922
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, it stands to reason somebody has at least

923
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: considered that. But uh, yeah, well it was great to

924
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: hear from rolling on all of this. Now, this first

925
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: time I've heard someone say Alice d was a hoot.

926
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: Um I feel like most people would would maybe describe

927
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: it a little differently, but but fair enough. It's all

928
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: very subjective, all right. So let's move on to feedback

929
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: on another episode, our episode on the Garrison Swine. Uh

930
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: this was this is a really fun episode because it

931
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: had it had demons in it, it had pigs in it.

932
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 1: We got to donibal tool, use animal tool, use pig cognition,

933
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: Bible stories, the whole nine yards. Uh. So, first, here's

934
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: a short bit of listener mail. This one comes to

935
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: us from Chris, Robert and Joe. I listened to Stuff

936
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: to Blew Your Mind pretty much every week, probably my

937
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: favorite podcast. While listening to this episode, I was thinking

938
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Firstly, I don't remember you ever

939
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: mentioning sea otters as animals that use tools. They're the

940
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: only marine animals to use stone tools. Add in that

941
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: their treacherous necrophiliac I don't know anything about that. Well,

942
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: did you and Christian talk about that in your necrophilia episode?

943
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: Might well have? Yeah. If if you want to hear

944
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: more about necrophilia, check out that episode that Christian and

945
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: I did a few years back. It's a it's a

946
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: good one. It ultimately demystifies necrophilia deals. I think we

947
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: get into human necrophilia a little bit, but we spent

948
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about animal necrophilia, which, of

949
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: course it is like the primary place you go to

950
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: understand what this thing is before you get into human complications.

951
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: But then Chris continues to talk about the pigs we

952
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: discussed in that episode. Yeah, they write then during your

953
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: discussion on vision wardy pigs using tools and then not

954
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: being very effective. Perhaps the use of tools is a

955
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: signal that they're building a nest versus rooting around for food.

956
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the great shows, Chris. I think this

957
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: is an interesting possibility. So one of the questions we

958
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: had was this research into the pigs found that the

959
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: pigs using the like bark and sticks to dig in

960
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the ground to make nests did seem to fit the

961
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: formal criteria for tool use, but it didn't seem like

962
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: they were much more efficient or at least in all

963
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: cases more efficient at nest building when using the tools

964
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: than they were when they were just digging with their

965
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: hoofs or snouts. So the question is, why are they

966
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: using the tools then if it doesn't necessarily give them

967
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: an advantage, like help them build a nest faster. One

968
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: thing that I offered is, well, what if the parts

969
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: of their bodies they normally dig with just get sore

970
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: from doing it or something That's that's possibility. One of

971
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: the things the authors brought up is that it could

972
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: just be a a social convention, almost sort of like

973
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: pig culture. Uh. And then that would, I think line

974
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: up kind of with what Chris is talking about here. Well, yeah,

975
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: I think I think the idea here is that, if

976
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: I'm understanding Chris correctly, the ideas that picking up a

977
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: tool to start digging shows the other pigs that it's

978
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 1: time to build a nest instead of just the other

979
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: pigs rooting around like you normally would when you're looking

980
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: for food, right, I mean, you could almost be interpreted.

981
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of like a like a fitness display.

982
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of these documentaries in which you see birds

983
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: male birds building you know, some sort of mating structure

984
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, uh, that is just about attracting the females. Now,

985
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: obviously this would not be exactly the same thing. But

986
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: perhaps the the idea I think that Chris is getting

987
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: at is that the use of the tool could be

988
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: part of of the city. The overall signaling saying that

989
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: I I am building the nest. Now, yeah, and and

990
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: but but tends to I think start with the females

991
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: and the pigs, and that they share the behaviors with

992
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 1: like they sort of teach the males how to do it.

993
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: It suggests to me that if that is in fact

994
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: what's going on, it could be that it's it's almost

995
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: like ringing the whistle. It's it's time to start work.

996
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: Because the nest building was a social thing. It was

997
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: like more than one pig participated in the digging of

998
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: the nest interest. So it's like maybe maybe picking up

999
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: the bark and doing that gets the other pigs on task. Possibility. Yeah,

1000
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: all right, well, now we're going to jump into another

1001
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: longer email about the Garascene demoniac. Uh. This one's long

1002
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: enough in fact, that I'm going to tag out to

1003
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: you during the reading of this email. All right, this

1004
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: one comes to us from Sean, Hi, Joe, and Robert.

1005
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: I'm a longtime listener and occasionally right in my last

1006
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: email that you read out in a listener Maile episode

1007
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: was also from Halloween last year, something about Halloween that

1008
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: makes me want to write in I feel you. I

1009
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: just finished listening to your episode on the Garascene Demoniac,

1010
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: which was a fascinating Bible story that I hadn't heard

1011
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: of before. You also covered lots of points that I'd

1012
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: like to reply to, especially adding input from the other

1013
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: side of the world. I live in Indonesia. The very

1014
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: first thing I thought of while listening was a story

1015
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: from Bali from a few years ago. This story is

1016
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: a massive w t F from the start and gets

1017
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: so much wilder by the end. A teenage boy was

1018
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: caught having sex with a cow and a village in

1019
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: the west of Bali. As this act spiritually defiled the

1020
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: village and the boy. A wedding ceremony was then held

1021
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: between the boy and the cow. Both were dressed up

1022
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: in customary wedding attire. To complete the spiritual cleansing of

1023
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: the village, the cow was drowned in the sea. The

1024
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: here is the earliest report in English I could find

1025
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: after a quick Google, and he points to a Metro

1026
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: dot Co dot UK story. Man forced to marry cal

1027
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: faints at wedding, which, uh, you know, it sounds like

1028
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: a you know, a goofier headline than like the true story.

1029
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: I feel like we're we're absorbing from this telling. Uh.

1030
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: They continue, while a different animal and involving bsality, the

1031
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: stories are somewhat similar. They both involve possession of demons

1032
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: or bad spirits, they both involve ceremony including animals, and

1033
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: they are both concluded with animals dying before the case

1034
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: being declared closed. The Balanese religion, while called Hindu, is

1035
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: not very similar to the Indian Hinduism, where cows are revered,

1036
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: and incorporates a lot more animous beliefs and the ever

1037
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 1: presence of good and bad spirits. While there might not

1038
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: be a take home message from this story, it certainly

1039
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 1: is fascinating and quite a unique insight into a unique culture.

1040
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: Another part of this episode appealing to me. As you

1041
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: talked about religious taboos, particularly the eating of pork, I

1042
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: should start by saying, I am a Muslim. I wasn't

1043
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: born into Islam, but I converted three years ago, so

1044
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: I have experienced growing up in an English culture and

1045
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: living a pork free lifestyle. It seems to me that

1046
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: while once you pointed out, there may have been initially

1047
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: very good reasons to ban the eating of pork, such

1048
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: as the reasons you mentioned the fact that the fact

1049
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: that pork flesh is a host for parasitic worms and

1050
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: more modern farming and food preparation would deem these reasons unimportant.

1051
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: Your reason that pigs are indiscriminate eaters and omnivorous makes

1052
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, as it is also forbidden to

1053
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: eat animals with things I eat carnivores. Another, however, the

1054
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: reason given by the Koran, to my knowledge, but please

1055
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: don't take my word of love own, is that the

1056
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: flesh is dirty. I believe you were right in saying

1057
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: that it is mostly taken nowadays to be a signal

1058
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: it is not necessary a sacrifice for any Muslims who

1059
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 1: have never even tried pork, but is definitely seen as

1060
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: a we don't do this, the people who aren't in

1061
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: our group do situation. I would like to add here

1062
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: that that pork is not forbidden if there is no

1063
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,479
Speaker 1: other food source available. I should also mention that even

1064
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: among the Balinese who are known lovers of pork, there

1065
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: was really there's recently been some suspicion as there have

1066
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: been a few cases of people becoming infected by bacteria

1067
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: and undercooked meat that reportedly lead to meningitis. Personally, I

1068
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: think the idea that we follow this rule because nonbelievers

1069
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: do the opposite is not a particularly strong argument. It

1070
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: affects me personally, as I have two dogs at home

1071
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: and in Islam this is not the done thing. But

1072
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: the more I try to find out why, it seems

1073
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: like the reason is because nonbelievers have dogs and we

1074
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: are not nonbelievers. This brings me to my response to

1075
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: Gustine's view of animal rights based on his reading of

1076
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: the scripture. All Right, I'm gonna tag out now, Joe.

1077
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: All Right, Sean goes on. Like I said, many Muslims

1078
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: would not have a dog. In some cases, there's a

1079
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: strong dislike, hatred, or even abuse of dogs as a result.

1080
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: I am, however, adamant that this is not stemming from

1081
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: a reading of the Quran or other religious laws, but

1082
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: from cultural upbringing. In the Koran, one of three mentions

1083
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: of dogs is that you may eat food hunted by

1084
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 1: your dog. Another mention is of a dog who accompanied

1085
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: a group of pious believers and protected them as they

1086
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: slept in a cave while fleeing persecution. I used to

1087
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: work for an animal welfare organization here in Bali, for

1088
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: part of which I tried to develop a curriculum that

1089
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: incorporated animal welfare. So I look for religious stories or

1090
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: texts that would promote animal welfare to children. While Islam

1091
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: promotes eating meat and the general idea of humanity is

1092
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: above animals, I feel there's nothing in the text that

1093
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: would call for the abuse of animals. In fact, the

1094
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: opposite is true. It is forbidden to spend money on dogs,

1095
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: gamble on animals. It is encouraged to give water and

1096
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: food to thirsty and hungry dogs. It's forbidden to slaughter

1097
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: a younger animal. There is one story in which Mohammad

1098
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: said angels do not visit a house which has a dog,

1099
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: and this seems to be the only negative there is.

1100
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: Of course, the doctrine of a dog's saliva is impure

1101
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: and must be cleaned, but this is alleviated by the

1102
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 1: simple process of cleaning. However, I feel that cultural leanings

1103
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: have gone the way of Augustine, taking one story that

1104
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: dogs hinder angels from entering a house and one idea

1105
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: of impurity about dogs saliva, and using this as an

1106
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: excuse to neglect or abuse animals. I know you focus

1107
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: mainly on Christianity and animal rights, but I feel this

1108
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: reflects the same ideas to summarize cleansing. Ceremonies involving bad

1109
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: spirits and animals forced to their deaths are still a thing.

1110
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: Pork is probably okay to eat if sourced well and

1111
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: cooked right, but nowadays is a cultural signal. And like Augustine,

1112
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: many people nowadays take one passage from scripture and use

1113
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: it to allow themselves to treat others poorly, ignoring the

1114
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: wealth of s pure pointing in the other direction. I'm

1115
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: very sorry for the long message. I'm quite surprised I

1116
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: had so much to say about a demonic pig exorcism.

1117
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: But I hope there are some parts you can take

1118
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: away from my email to entertain you or bring to

1119
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: lights some views from different cultures. And as always, I

1120
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: love the show and look forward to whatever adventure you

1121
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: take me on next. All the best, Sean, No, absolutely,

1122
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: I I I've really appreciated Sean's inside on this um

1123
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: and and you know, I think it also shows that

1124
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: you know how interesting this topic was, that you know what,

1125
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: on the surface is just kind of a wtf uh

1126
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: you know story from the New testament ultimately touches on

1127
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: so many different aspects of human culture and human behavior. Yeah.

1128
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things Sean brings up, which

1129
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: I think is true, is that the element of the

1130
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: pigs running in the into the sea to die afterwards.

1131
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: That could reflect, I don't know, not something about the

1132
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: peculiarities of that story itself, but could be a deeper

1133
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: sort of motif of like the scapegoat tradition, right, you know,

1134
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: putting sends her uncleanness into an animal that is then

1135
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: sent out into the wilderness to its death or is

1136
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: put to death or something as a way of uh,

1137
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: sort of like transferring the bad stuff out. So so

1138
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: I can totally see it fitting with that tradition that,

1139
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: like as Sean says, is still used in many ways today. Yeah.

1140
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: I mean we didn't even talk about scapegoats in that episode. Yeah. Yeah,

1141
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: So clearly we could come back and do more in

1142
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: the future. All Right, we're getting towards the end here,

1143
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: but we have two more bits of Halloween listener mail

1144
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: that Carney is insisting that we read because if we don't,

1145
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: it might have to go back into the pit until

1146
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: next year. So this one comes to us from Um,

1147
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: this is Carrie, I believe, and Carrie rides high. Thanks

1148
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: for a great show. I just listened to your show

1149
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: about Jenny green Teeth. This was an episode from the

1150
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: previous year, but when we ran it vault episode about

1151
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: Jenny Green Teeth which ended with a recommendation about the

1152
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: Hitcher and his scary song about eels Um. The Hitcher

1153
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: is of course a character from the British comedy series

1154
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: The Mighty Bush, which I think at this point has

1155
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: been off the air for like an amazingly long period

1156
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: of time, and in age where Netflix and other streaming

1157
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: shows are bringing back everything, I'm a little surprised nobody

1158
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: has has has given us a Boush revival. But for

1159
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: fans of the Great British Bake Off, I don't know

1160
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: if you've seen it. Null Fielding is a yeah, he's

1161
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: the host, right, yeah, one of them, Yeah, I mean

1162
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: both both the Julian as well. They've both continued to

1163
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: work a lot and you can certainly find them out there.

1164
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: They just aside from some live stuff, they haven't they

1165
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: haven't fully come back to the Bush. Rachel and I

1166
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: make a lot of baking show jokes about just baking

1167
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: a little foxy Mariam. Alright, anyway, so Carrie continues. It

1168
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: made me think about a book I just finished called

1169
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: The Gospel of the Eels by Patrick Vincent. There is

1170
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: a chapter in the book about the eel as a

1171
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: creepy and scary being which has haunted us in numerous way.

1172
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: It has almost crept into our subconscious and could be

1173
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: claimed to have made Sigmund Freud come up with his psychoanalysis,

1174
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: since he, as a young scientist, could not find its

1175
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: genitals hidden and not possible to directly observe with scientific methods.

1176
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: Well later it was naturally found. The way this was

1177
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: done also makes up a very intriguing story, and Freud

1178
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: had just been studying the wrong metamorphos stage of the

1179
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: eel like that. I've never heard that before. I thought

1180
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: this could be an interesting October episode, or if you

1181
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: do not have the time for the for the moment,

1182
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 1: something inspiring for a later occasion. Below is a link

1183
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,479
Speaker 1: to review of the book. Thank you for a great show,

1184
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: Keep up the good work. Uh you know I would

1185
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,919
Speaker 1: I would be up for an episode on eels and

1186
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 1: our humans relationship with eels. I've I've always found them fascinating.

1187
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: Um I got to see one while snorkeling recently and

1188
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 1: that was a lot of fun. Freud in the elusive

1189
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: genital sell me on it. So yeah, yeah, yeah, And

1190
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: if if Royd has something to say about them, than

1191
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: than clearly there's some meat on the bone there. All right,

1192
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: we have one last listener mail, would you do the honors?

1193
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: Joe Sure? This is in response to another Vault episode

1194
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: we released in October, or the one about monstrosity and cuteness.

1195
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: Why so many monsters, especially like Japanese Yokai, I believe,

1196
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: end up with these very popular cute versions of them

1197
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: that exist all throughout culture. So uh land in rites

1198
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: in Hello guys. I wanted to respond to this episode

1199
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: in a few ways. First, I've never seen a cute

1200
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: or adorable version of Suron Saruman, the nas Gul, or

1201
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: the Uricai. Maybe they exist, but I've never seen them anywhere. Well,

1202
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: hold on, there the whole there's the pop what is it?

1203
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 1: The pop? Funky pop, funk? What is it? I don't

1204
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Funk pop. Seth has just

1205
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: chimed in the funk pop. Yeah, the little little little

1206
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: uh you know, dolls, little uh sculptures of different pop

1207
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: culture with the little pill heads. Yeah, I feel like

1208
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: there's a kind of cute looking Soron. I think I've

1209
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: seen that somewhere. Okay, Uh, I mean it's weird because

1210
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: I feel like they would have to make its head

1211
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: very wide, and the whole point of Saron's head is

1212
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: that his head has verticality. It's a cathedral with the helmet, right,

1213
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: But I mean basically just a big head, small body,

1214
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: squat little cute form. It's granted, you can only make

1215
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: Soron so cute, and obviously there's nothing really you can

1216
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: do with the great all Seeing Eye incarnation, but I

1217
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: think I think it's been done. I think he's too

1218
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: popular to not do up like that. I was a

1219
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 1: little appalled recently when I was at a bookstore with

1220
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 1: my son and we're looking at the Harry Potter stuff

1221
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: because it's Harry Potter obsessed and lo and behold, here

1222
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: are cute Voldemort's. There should not be cute Voldemort's Voldermore

1223
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: Voldemore is not cute in in any way, shape or

1224
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: form um. And yet we've we've made them, and I

1225
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: presumably people buy them. Oh, I don't know. I can

1226
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: go for a cute Sorromon. It almost writes itself. I'm

1227
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: Sorromon of many colors, you know, all Landon continues. Second,

1228
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: it could the idea to make all these villains and

1229
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: monsters cute be related to making the hero more adorable,

1230
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 1: to think the Flintstone Kids, Muppet babies, and even the

1231
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: more recent travesty of Marvel Heroes babies. I don't know

1232
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: what that refers to. There's a whole lineup of these

1233
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: young children, young versions of characters. Maybe someone eventually said

1234
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: why not the monster slash villain too? I don't know.

1235
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: Does does Muppet babies pre date the cute Yokai? I

1236
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: have no idea. Um m, I mean Muppet babies are

1237
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: an interesting point. I don't know. There's this. It's like

1238
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: as if the adult Muppets were not already cute and

1239
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: cuddly enough, right. I mean, I watched way too too

1240
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: much of the Muppet Babies. Um, but I can't say

1241
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: I loved it at the same time. Oh, I don't know.

1242
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: I feel like there is something going on there where.

1243
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: If you take something and you essentially turn it into

1244
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: a Teddy Bear, there is something going on there. Where

1245
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: we're perhaps saying this means so much to me as

1246
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: an adult or as a you know, or at least

1247
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: a non child, that I can, I can and want

1248
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: to transform it into like a larval form, into a

1249
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: teddy bear form that I will been cling to now,

1250
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: and in doing so, I kind of like retroactively attach

1251
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: my childhood to it. Yeah, I see that. Or I

1252
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: mean maybe you did read Lord of the Rings when

1253
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: you're a kid. I mean I I did, so you know,

1254
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: it's not that big of a stretch to like transform

1255
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: it into a teddy bear or a doll and then

1256
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: love it as an adult, to reconnect with the child

1257
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: that you were when you first explored this world. I mean,

1258
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings already has elements that are insufferably cute,

1259
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: Like the Hobbits are, like they're almost too cute to

1260
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 1: read about, you know. Yeah, that's true, But I guess

1261
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: that's part of what the contrast there that makes the

1262
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: story work. So you've got the doomy darkness of the

1263
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: Great War and more Door and all that, and then

1264
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: you've got the Hobbits, which are so quaint as too,

1265
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, make all that stuff the more powerful? Yeah,

1266
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: I mean and ultimately, I guess the idea is like

1267
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: the shire is what you're fighting for, right, Like the

1268
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: shire is that the thing that should be protected, all right,

1269
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: Landing goes on. The other idea is based on the

1270
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 1: scripture in the Bible that speaks of Satan as transforming

1271
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Speaker 1: himself into an angel of light and Second Corinthians, chapter eleven,

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01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: verse fourteen. That is to say, he makes bad things

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Speaker 1: look good, which accounts for much in the world. If

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Speaker 1: you ask me to think of the Japanese demons you

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01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: spoke of, for example, people lived in fear of and

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01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: acted and reacted for hundreds of years based on the

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01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 1: belief that these demons could harm them. Now that the

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01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: world is more quote enlightened, people do not believe in

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01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 1: demons as much. However, the demons still influence the lives

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Speaker 1: of people. Even if this is a new concept. Satan

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01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: has made danger seem safe. What do you guys think.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if Landing means this literally or just

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01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: sort of like as a way of I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's a kind of a cultural pattern here. Well. In

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01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: my experience growing up in um like a Baptist church,

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01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,679
Speaker 1: that whole line about Satan transforming himself in an angel

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Speaker 1: of light was generally used to explain why you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: like something that you like, or you shouldn't want something

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01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: that you want. And of course there are things, yes,

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Speaker 1: that any human may feel some desire for that it

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01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: is advisable to be reminded that there may be some

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01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 1: pitfalls there to wanting that, you know. But on the

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01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: other hand, there are plenty of things that are uh,

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01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: just part of like normal human behavior or just part

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01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: of of life. And it's easy for somebody to come

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Speaker 1: along and say, Nope, don't go after that. It's just

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01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: Satan in a disguise right there. Yeah. In my early

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01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: conservative Christian environments, I remember that being deployed much along

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01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,440
Speaker 1: the same lines as uh, the idea that the Antichrist

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01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,799
Speaker 1: will come in the name of peace. This was often

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01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: cited basically against any politician or public figure who who

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01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 1: was against war or who advocated peace in any kind

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01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: of way. The idea was like, ah, that's a sign

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01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: that they're bad. Yeah, so in wanting peace bad, glowing

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01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: glowing with light also potentially bad. Finally, Lyndon says, thanks

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01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: for all the good work. I love the episodes where

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01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: you read some ancient text or story at the beginning.

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01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: You both have a perfect cadence. Ah, we'll think. I'm

1309
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: glad to hear that, because generally we just do it

1310
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: because it's fun. But it's always nice when people connect

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01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 1: with the cold opens. All right, I think that does

1312
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 1: it for this year's Halloween stuff. Yes, that wasn't I'm

1313
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: sorry to say that wasn't all the mail we got.

1314
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: As we said, our mail bag is overflowing, our our

1315
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: cup runneth over, and we really appreciate all of the

1316
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: great messages you send us. Sorry if your message didn't

1317
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: make it onto this episode, but uh, feel free to

1318
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: write us again in the future. Absolutely again. We're going

1319
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 1: to follow this up with another listener mail. That's going

1320
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 1: to be additional non Halloween listener mail. In the meantime,

1321
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: if you want to check out other episodes of Stuff

1322
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, well you know where to find them.

1323
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: There's the website Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1324
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: You can also find Stuff to Blow your Mind wherever

1325
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and just make sure you have

1326
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: subscribed and that you give us a nice rating if

1327
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: you If you like the show, that really helps us out.

1328
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,760
Speaker 1: As for other projects, there's Invention, our Journey through human

1329
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: techno History. Do check that out. If you haven't given

1330
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 1: it a shot, you'll find that at invention pod dot com.

1331
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: You'll find it wherever you get your podcasts. That comes

1332
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 1: out once a week and it is a tremendous amount

1333
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: of fun. We recently recorded an episode about the Uh

1334
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 1: the spit Dog, which is phenomenal. I think it's maybe

1335
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,919
Speaker 1: one of the best episodes we we've recorded for Invention,

1336
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: and I really want to encourage everyone to check that out.

1337
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: And if you're in the mind for a little sci fi,

1338
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 1: some fiction, a little bit of horror this this season,

1339
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 1: you might want to check out the Second oil Age.

1340
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: That's the fiction series that I was involved with, and

1341
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: it is I think at this point, as as of

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01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 1: this recording, like six episodes out of ten or out.

1343
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: And if you if you were to wait till go

1344
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: ahead and subscribe, but you can wait till the end

1345
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 1: of the month, and then you'll have all ten ready

1346
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: to go, ready to binge. Seriously, folks, check out the

1347
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: Second oil Age. Delicious dark sci fi. I think you'll

1348
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: love it. If you like us, you'll love it all right.

1349
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: And that's all I got. How Can they email us?

1350
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: Joe Oh, of course you can contact us as always.

1351
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: Wait first, I gotta give a shout out to our

1352
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 1: wonderful audio producer Seth Nicholas Johns. Of course, but you

1353
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: can email us as always at contact at stuff to

1354
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind

1355
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For

1356
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1357
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:45,839
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.