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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Little House on the Prairie

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Speaker 1: star sobs in court over sex charges. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: Timothy Busfield, a well known actor, director, and producer, now

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Speaker 2: finds himself not behind the lens, but directly in front

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Speaker 2: of it, facing disturbing allegations that threatened to redefine his

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Speaker 2: public image.

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Speaker 1: We all know who Melissa Gilbert is, the star of

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Speaker 1: Little House.

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Speaker 3: On the Prairie that ran for years and years and years.

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Speaker 1: People watched her grow up and here she is now.

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Speaker 1: But many people didn't recognize the name Timothy Busfield. But

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Speaker 1: I beck you recognize this quiz show, Field of Dreams,

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Speaker 1: Revenge of the Nerds, Wow Bloods, Striking Distance, Lizzie McGuire, Entourage,

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Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow, Matt Locke, the Client List, West Wing, Lois

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Speaker 1: and Clark, Joan of Arcadia, Stripes. It goes on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. This is Us, Graceland, FBI Most Wanted.

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Speaker 3: I've got rings of titles.

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Speaker 1: Timothy Busfil connected to all of these hits there he

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Speaker 1: is now a famous, famous actor director, now brought in

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Speaker 1: court in shackles after.

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Speaker 4: This at least ten heavily armed US marshals from the

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Speaker 4: New York Regional Task Force gather at the upstate home

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Speaker 4: of award winning actor director Timothy Busfield. The agent's wearing

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Speaker 4: helmets and protective gear, use a battering ram to reach

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Speaker 4: the door, gaining access to the home, not knowing what

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Speaker 4: they will find as the property is searched for evidence.

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Speaker 1: That from our friends at Daily Mail, and you see

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Speaker 1: the use of a battering ram, which is very, very unusual.

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Speaker 1: To Chris Melcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer partner

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Speaker 1: Wolveser Melcher.

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Speaker 3: Question to you, Melcher, how often.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen a battering ram used to get to

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Speaker 1: a defendant.

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Speaker 5: The battering ram seems excessive, but I have definitely seen

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Speaker 5: it in my practice when law enforcement enters a home,

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Speaker 5: which is an inherently dangerous thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Guys, you're seeing a shot from our friends at the

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Speaker 1: Daily Mail. This is when in full tactical gear LA

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Speaker 1: law enforcement descends on the upstate New York home of

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Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie star Melissa Gilbert and husband

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Speaker 1: actor director Timothy Bussfield. As you heard earlier, not knowing

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Speaker 1: what would be inside, they batter the door down that

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Speaker 1: from our friends at Daily Mail, which leads us to

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Speaker 1: now tonight, in the last hours, Busfeld in a court

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico, answering up to charges of child sex abuse.

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Speaker 3: Now in court, the argument in.

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Speaker 1: Court that this whole child sex abuse claim is fabricated

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Speaker 1: over revenge. Okay, joining me and all star panels straight

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Speaker 1: out to Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter at the US

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Speaker 1: Sun on the story from the very beginning, Jessica, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: What is she talking about? Revenge?

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Speaker 6: So the boys were basically taking off the show sometime

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Speaker 6: in early twenty twenty four, and apparently the parents were

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Speaker 6: very upset about this. It sounds like from the description

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Speaker 6: of what the defense attorney Amber was saying, is that

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Speaker 6: the boys had basically aged out, Like the role was

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Speaker 6: only over the course of a couple of years, and

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Speaker 6: the boys had suddenly between COVID and other like delays

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Speaker 6: in filming, the boys had basically aged out, and so

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Speaker 6: they decided to replace them with younger actors, and so

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Speaker 6: it was, you know, they were off the show and

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Speaker 6: then all the way in November of twenty twenty four

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Speaker 6: is the first time we hear an allegation that Timothy

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Speaker 6: had allegedly done something untowards towards the boys.

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Speaker 1: Dave mac uh, maybe I need to check my if

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Speaker 1: they hear Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: But does a witness state that the boy's mother said,

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Speaker 1: upon learning the boys the twin boys, were not going

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Speaker 1: to be brought back to the set, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get his ass.

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Speaker 3: Did she say that? According to a witness.

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Speaker 7: Nancy, the lead actress of this series is the one

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Speaker 7: who is they say actually overheard that the mother of

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Speaker 7: the twins said we're going to get rid of that.

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Speaker 7: We are going to get his ass.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to get to the claims in just

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Speaker 1: a moment. The actual claims in an indictment that looks

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Speaker 1: bad and apparently the judge bought into it, you know,

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Speaker 1: to veteran defense attorney Chris Melcher joining US, Chris, going

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Speaker 1: into a case where you do not have forensic evidence,

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Speaker 1: you don't have DNA, you don't have a fingerprint, you

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Speaker 1: don't have a confession, and you don't.

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Speaker 3: Have an eyewitness. What you do have is a victim.

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Speaker 1: And if your victim can be attacked, and remember these

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Speaker 1: were little boys, and the mother allegedly said, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get his ass for not bringing my children back.

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Speaker 1: That could be a mortal blow to the state's case.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, Nancy, I'm really surprised that this case was even

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Speaker 5: filed just based on the Affidavid that was that was

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Speaker 5: presented to the court and the information that's come out

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Speaker 5: now is devastating, and it just seems to me that

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Speaker 5: he's innocent and that I don't really believe this case

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Speaker 5: is long for the world. I'm not based on what

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Speaker 5: we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: Well, isn't it true, Chris Melcher, that that's what you're

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Speaker 1: paid to think. You're a defense attorney and you are

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Speaker 1: paid to state my client citizen, Just yes, No, isn't

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Speaker 1: that what you're paid to do.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's the harsh true.

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Speaker 5: As a defense attorney. Yeah, but as a citizen here

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Speaker 5: just reviewing this information, there is no reasonable prospect that

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Speaker 5: the prosecutor can secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt in.

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Speaker 3: My mind, all on this moment.

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Speaker 1: You do know, Melcher about similar transactions claims of abuse

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Speaker 1: on teens and young people dating back to nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 1: For you think all that.

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Speaker 3: Those aren't that didn't happen either.

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Speaker 5: Those aren't really similar, There's no way.

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Speaker 1: So it always happens to younger individuals sixteen years old,

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old. It often happens in relation to a

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Speaker 1: TV or movie set. There is always a position, like

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Speaker 1: a fiduciary position. For instance, he is in charge and

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Speaker 1: the other person is coming to audition or to try

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Speaker 1: out or to be mentored. So I see a lot

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Speaker 1: of similarities, but I do agree a case in chief

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Speaker 1: must stand on its own. The similar transactions are to

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Speaker 1: corroborate or bolster your case in chief.

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Speaker 3: So who are we going to believe? Could all be true?

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Speaker 1: Could the mother be held bent on revenge and the

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Speaker 1: boys be telling the truth. There's problems with that too.

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Speaker 1: This case is riddled with problems. That doesn't mean it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. But straight back out to Jessica Finn joining us.

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Speaker 3: What is Fayerburgh saying.

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Speaker 1: She's saying that what one of the boy's parents was

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Speaker 1: a lawyer that had been disbarred and that they were

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Speaker 1: running out of money. Explained to me what she's arguing

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Speaker 1: to the judge.

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Speaker 6: So she is essentially saying that these boys parents are

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Speaker 6: scam artists. She is telling the judge that they have

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Speaker 6: a history of a nefarious behavior, both the father and

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Speaker 6: the mother, and she's arguing that essentially these parents have

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Speaker 6: put these boys up to making these allegations against Tim Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac Crime Stories, what can you tell us

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Speaker 1: about claims that one of the parents is a disbarred lawyer.

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Speaker 7: That would be the father. Nancy. His name's Ronald Rhodis

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Speaker 7: defends the herny that actually played guilty in twenty seventeen

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Speaker 7: to a federal charge of conspiracy to commit wire fraud.

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Speaker 7: He was accused in a multi million dollar scheme depriding

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Speaker 7: over fifteen hundred homeowners. That's just the dad. Mom's not

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Speaker 7: and it's an either.

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Speaker 1: She ain't smelling like a rose. Tonight, Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace to dtor Bethany Marshall joining us renownedd psychoanalyst

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Speaker 1: joining us out of LA, author of deal Breaker. You

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Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock and you can find

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Speaker 1: her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Dr Bethany, I've had

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Speaker 1: to argue to a jury that a prostitute can be raped,

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Speaker 1: a prostitute can be ag assaulted, a prostitute can be armed, robbed.

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Speaker 1: I have had to argue that a dopeaddict can be murdered,

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Speaker 1: that it's still a murder no matter who.

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Speaker 3: The victim is.

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Speaker 1: All the victims that I represented in inner city Atlanta

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Speaker 1: for a decade, I can promise you they were not

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Speaker 1: nuns and priests and virgins.

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Speaker 3: Can we just put that out there right now? And

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Speaker 3: I would have to tell the.

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Speaker 1: Jury up front, you're gonna hear this, this, and this,

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Speaker 1: but that does not mean a crime didn't happen.

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Speaker 3: But I got to tell you something. These parents, that's sadoozi.

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Speaker 3: You got the Did you hear what Dave mac just said?

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Speaker 3: He's right? Yes. When I hear lawyer disbarred, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: what what?

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Speaker 1: Because Bethany and Melcher, I'm sure you're gonna agree.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you'll admit it or not. But

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Speaker 3: to get thrown out of the bar.

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Speaker 1: You have to do a lot to get thrown out

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Speaker 1: of the bar.

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Speaker 3: I mean a lot. He's disbarred.

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Speaker 1: I mean and it was a fraud case, which is

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Speaker 1: critical here because when you don't know a horse, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: you look at the track record. Dad thrown out of

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Speaker 1: the bar for fraud and now the device is claiming

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Speaker 1: this is a fraud for money. It doesn't smell good.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't smell good at all. And I don't expect

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Speaker 1: victims to be angels.

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Speaker 3: I never get an angel victim. No, but this is bad.

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Speaker 8: Or you can be a sex predator but also not

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Speaker 8: be guilty of predating on two victims you're accused of,

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Speaker 8: you know, Nancy. Instead of thinking about who's right and

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Speaker 8: who's wrong, Timothy Bustfield or the parents, how about thinking

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Speaker 8: about it as a group of people who acted something

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Speaker 8: out together. So again, this is made up. I don't

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Speaker 8: know Timothy bust Build. But let's say the parents are

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Speaker 8: very angry that the boys are no longer hired for

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Speaker 8: the show. They get wind that Timothy Busfield is potentially predatory,

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Speaker 8: and because of that, it entices them to set him

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Speaker 8: up as having molested the boys. And in that case,

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Speaker 8: you can see that all the adults in this scenario

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Speaker 8: acted something out together. Or if Timothy Busfield did indeed

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Speaker 8: molest these boys, he may have come up with formidable

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Speaker 8: opponents who are actually looking for an opportunity for a shakedown.

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Speaker 8: So I don't think this is going to be an

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Speaker 8: one's an angel and one's a devil. I think this

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Speaker 8: is going to be adults colluding with each other in

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Speaker 8: a very terrible way, with two little boys victimized, being

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Speaker 8: used as ponds by probably all parties involved.

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Speaker 1: But at what juncture. First of all, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: imagine a mom and a dad not destitute. I mean,

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Speaker 1: one's got a law degree. It can go work, well,

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Speaker 1: we can. He's disbarred, he can be a mediator.

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Speaker 3: Right, Melcher.

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Speaker 1: Even lawyers that have been disbarred and go perform mediations,

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Speaker 1: right and make a good living at it too.

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Speaker 5: Yes, No, yes, And he was making a lot more

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Speaker 5: money off of their kids.

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Speaker 3: Good point.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is, Bethany, I've got to imagine

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Speaker 1: a scenario of two parents, a mother and a father,

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Speaker 1: going along with using their children as pawns and fabricating

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Speaker 1: a sex molestation.

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Speaker 3: Now, this was not a full on rape of a child.

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Speaker 1: This was allegations that children were fondled over their clothes

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Speaker 1: all right in their private parts.

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Speaker 3: Which the reason I bring that up.

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Speaker 1: Molestation is molestation is molestation. But it's harder to prove

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Speaker 1: a fondling because you have no physical evidence.

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Speaker 3: When you have a full on.

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Speaker 1: Attack, you will probably get physical evidence from the child's body.

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Speaker 3: We don't have that here.

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Speaker 1: But I'm trying to imagine a scenario, bethany where a

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Speaker 1: mom and a dad would put their children up to

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Speaker 1: pretend that.

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Speaker 3: They're sex victims. That is dark.

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Speaker 1: That is able because the rest of their lives are

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Speaker 1: going to remember, Hey, my mom and dad, they told

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Speaker 1: me to say this so we could get some money.

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Speaker 8: I mean, Nancy, I have a lot of adults in

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Speaker 8: my practice who were once child actors, and a good

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Speaker 8: number of them were used as ponds by their parents

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Speaker 8: and their money was taken. You know, Nancy, if the

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Speaker 8: parents are already monetizing their children in one way as actors,

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Speaker 8: it would be interesting to know if they're willing to

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Speaker 8: cross that line and monetize their children in other ways.

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Speaker 8: Parents use their children all the time. We call it exploitation,

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Speaker 8: interpersonal offending, and yes, it is very very dark. They

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Speaker 8: could not accept the reality that their boys had aged out.

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Speaker 8: They wouldn't not have this role forever. But then if

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Speaker 8: you get a predator on the set who has poor boundaries.

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Speaker 8: I don't know if Timothy Bussfield is, of course, but

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Speaker 8: you have a predator, then you have yet another dark

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Speaker 8: scenario where you have a predator whose parents was eventually

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Speaker 8: asleep at the wheel.

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Speaker 1: Bethany, Bethany, before I lose this thought, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go back in the courtroom and I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To play audio of the boys.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But when you said no boundaries, there is evidence

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Speaker 1: from several witnesses that state that Busfield would come on

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Speaker 1: the set and he would hug the boys and actually

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Speaker 1: would like PLoP a kiss on their head. And that's

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Speaker 1: against protocol.

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Speaker 3: And I know that because.

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Speaker 1: I had to train to go on these scout campouts

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Speaker 1: with the children and.

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Speaker 3: You're not supposed to touch the children ever.

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Speaker 1: And I was out in the middle of nowhere camping

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Speaker 1: and a little like ten year old boy came walking

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Speaker 1: down by himself.

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Speaker 3: Just crying and nodding and will I'm like, what is wrong, baby?

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Speaker 3: Come here? And I hugged him.

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Speaker 1: Another scout Mastercumount went just stop right now, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: and I unhugged and then remember, you're not supposed touch

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Speaker 1: no matter what. The little boy was upset, it was

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Speaker 1: his first night and he wanted to go home.

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Speaker 3: That's what happened.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when I'm thinking about Busfield walking on

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Speaker 1: the set and kissing a kid on the face, like

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Speaker 1: I think, on the forehead. So I don't know how

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Speaker 1: that will play into this when you're talking about boundaries.

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Speaker 3: Was that part of a wicked scheme?

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Speaker 1: Was it just a tiny taste of further exploitation or

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Speaker 1: is it a natural response to.

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Speaker 3: Seeing a child you've been working with for a year.

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Speaker 1: But when you just imagine how parents could use their

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Speaker 1: children in some kind of money scheme.

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, when you have wealth, power, privilege, you

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Speaker 8: should know the rules. Timothy Bustfield has been on so

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Speaker 8: many sets, as you pointed out, so by now he's

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Speaker 8: well acquainted with the fact that he could potentially be

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Speaker 8: a target right for people who are disgruntled or angry,

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Speaker 8: so he knows to watch his p's and q's. There

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Speaker 8: was one interview with a makeup artist who said that

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Speaker 8: everybody kind of watched out for Timothy Bussfield because he

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Speaker 8: had poor boundaries, and she used the word creep. So

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Speaker 8: I find that interesting that somebody on the else on

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Speaker 8: the set said.

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Speaker 1: That Bethany, Bethany, Bethany Bethany, you just raise the hair

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Speaker 1: on the back of my neck. My intent went because

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Speaker 1: in every case that I, well, not every but almost

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Speaker 1: every rape or molestation case that I prosecuted, universally somewhere

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Speaker 1: in the defendants past. And when I said he was

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Speaker 1: always so creepy, he was always a weirdo, he was

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Speaker 1: always a perf whatever adjective they would put in right there.

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Speaker 1: Just hearing somebody say that, it's like a sixth sense. Okay, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: are you sitting down?

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Speaker 3: You look like you're sitting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you may need to lay down. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: play something for you. Guys, embrace yourself. The defense is

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Speaker 1: having a field day with this audio of the little

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Speaker 1: boys when they were little boys.

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Speaker 3: Listen, you know what's right and wrong?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: You know, no when could touch your private areas?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, but buddy didn't touch doesn't touch.

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Speaker 9: Your private parts? Okay, yeah, and you know what's right

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Speaker 9: and wrong, right, you know where people can't touch, where

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Speaker 9: people can't be Yeah, you know that, right? Does Tim

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Speaker 9: ever do that?

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Speaker 8: No, he's never touched me.

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Speaker 9: Never touched you, Yeah, in the in like you know,

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Speaker 9: your private areas, right, never did that?

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Speaker 8: Never?

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: You just heard audio police audio that we got from

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Speaker 1: our friends at TMZ interviewing the two twin boys we're

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Speaker 1: not saying their names. We're referring to them as the

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Speaker 1: victory L Love and s Sally ll Love, VL and SL.

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Speaker 1: That is the original police interview with accusers, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like that is a forensic interviewer that establishes with

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Speaker 1: the child they understand right from wrong and not to

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Speaker 1: tell stories. Okay, that's just part of the interview where

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Speaker 1: both boys deny anything happened.

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Speaker 4: Emmy Award winner Timothy Busfield joins cast as an actor

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Speaker 4: and director who tells boys to call him Uncle Tim.

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Speaker 4: Inappropriate action happens on multiple occasions, and parents of the

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Speaker 4: boys say Busfield masks the inappropriate touching as play. One

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Speaker 4: boy says he was touched on his intimate parts over

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Speaker 4: his clothing. The boys are referred to as SL and VL.

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Speaker 4: The parents say SL wakes up scared from nightmares about

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Speaker 4: Busfield touching him and is diagnosed PTSD.

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Speaker 2: Busfield and his wife, actress Melissa Gilbert, live a quiet,

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Speaker 2: secluded life in their Cat Skills mountainside home until accusations

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Speaker 2: pull them into public scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: Even that quiet, secluded life in the cat Skills did

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Speaker 1: not protect Timothy Busfield from a battering ram just crashing

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Speaker 1: through his door when he did not come to the door.

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Speaker 3: He has now been in court. Take a look at

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Speaker 3: this video.

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Speaker 1: This is what went down and their cat skills refuge.

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Speaker 1: Take a look everybody in full tac gear. This is

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Speaker 1: from our friends at Daily Mail. And in the end,

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Speaker 1: Timothy Busfield is in court now another field day, another

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Speaker 1: touchdown for the defense. It's when they obtained an audio

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Speaker 1: recording from the time these claims were first brought they

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Speaker 1: were originally dismissed. I want you to hear again the

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Speaker 1: police recording. Listen, we're we've transcribed it for you so

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Speaker 1: you can see and hear exactly what the boys said

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 4: You know what's right and wrong, right, Yeah?

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Speaker 9: You know no one could touch your private areas. Yeah.

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Speaker 10: Well but buddy didn't touch you, doesn't touch.

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Speaker 9: Your private parts, okay, yeah, And you know what's right

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Speaker 9: and wrong, right. You know where people can't touch, where

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Speaker 9: people can be Yeah, you know that, right. Does Tim

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Speaker 9: ever do that?

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Speaker 10: No, he's never touched me.

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Speaker 9: Never touched you. Yeah, in the in like you know,

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Speaker 9: your private areas, right, never did that?

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Speaker 1: Never?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, that's bad for the state.

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Speaker 1: I'm just telling you and I'm prone to believe the victims,

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Speaker 1: but that is going to be extremely damaging on cross examination.

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Speaker 1: If these boys do take the stand that they're longer boys,

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Speaker 1: that's my friends at TAMC.

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Speaker 3: So how did this whole thing happen? Now?

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Speaker 2: Years later, after Busfield joins the show as director, the

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Speaker 2: parents discover there have been allegations against Busfield of sexual

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Speaker 2: assault against women and miners. The mother asks the boys

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Speaker 2: if anyone has ever touched them in a manner that

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Speaker 2: made them feel uncomfortable. The children reply, you mean, like

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Speaker 2: Uncle Tim. Hearing this, the parents contact a law firm

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Speaker 2: that recommends taking the children to unmh.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right there, Doctor Bethany Marshall, It's hard to ask

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Speaker 1: your children, but I found a way to ask the

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Speaker 1: children when they were little, starting as young as two

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Speaker 1: and three, if anybody had ever touched their private parts ever,

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Speaker 1: front end or back end. And I had learned a

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Speaker 1: lot from learning about interviewing children forensically.

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Speaker 3: Which I had to do as a prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: And there's a problem here because if the twins, either

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Speaker 1: one of them, had ever said yeah, I would have

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Speaker 1: immediately called the hospital and the police. My first thought

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Speaker 1: would not be to call a lawyer.

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Speaker 3: What do you think that is right?

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Speaker 8: Here's what I think it could be that the little

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Speaker 8: boy who's having PTSD and dreams about being touched by

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Speaker 8: Uncle Tim, actually, in fact, his parents are coaching him

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Speaker 8: and talking to him about sex and what it's like

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Speaker 8: when somebody touches your private parts, and that they are

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Speaker 8: so excited over the prospect of a shakedown, that this

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Speaker 8: is the biggest topic in the household at this point,

394
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Speaker 8: and that it's that conversation that's actually traumatizing this little boy.

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Speaker 8: I had a family who brought a sixteen year old

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Speaker 8: to me who had been raped by her best male friend,

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Speaker 8: who was also sixteen. But they they would invade the

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Speaker 8: session excitedly talking about the nature of the rape, and

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Speaker 8: I became aware that actually they were setting up the

400
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Speaker 8: other family by continually planting stories in the sixteen year

401
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Speaker 8: old's head. She wasn't traumatized by whatever happened with the

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00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 8: other sixteen year old. It's her parents who were traumatizing

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Speaker 8: her because they just saw a big paycheck at the

404
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 8: end of the day. Now, I don't know for sure

405
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Speaker 8: if that's what's happening here, but I would certainly consider

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Speaker 8: that as a possibility.

407
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: The parents have not been accused of any fraud in

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Speaker 1: this case at all. For all we know, these claims

409
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Speaker 1: could be true, and the parents are doing what they

410
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: can for their children.

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Speaker 3: That said, they call lawyer and this happens.

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Speaker 4: Next examining the children, hospital staff advised the parents it

413
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 4: appears their children were groomed and in reference to a

414
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 4: CART exam, an interview of a child by a specialized

415
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: forensic interviewer as part of a child Abuse Response Team

416
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 4: KRT protocol. In interviews with both boys, neither child discloses

417
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Speaker 4: any sexual contact, but both say Uncle Tim would tickle

418
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: them on the stomach and legs and they didn't like it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, my stars, Chris Melcher, I guess you're.

420
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Speaker 1: Just dancing up and down the halls with glee right now,

421
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: because here they are in another interview at the hospital

422
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Speaker 1: and they're doing a full on cart a CART which

423
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Speaker 1: is a specialized exam you do with potential child abuse victims.

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Speaker 1: Both times, neither child discloses sex contact. They do say quote,

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Speaker 1: Uncle Tim would tickle them on the stomach and legs

426
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Speaker 1: and they didn't like it. Okay, boom bum but um

427
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: boom but bum bum bum boom.

428
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Speaker 3: It's lining up for the state. It pays me to

429
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 3: say it. But here is another blow to potential victims.

430
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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I

431
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: know here's another point of cross exam. I mean, I'm

432
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Speaker 1: just looking at it analytically, Melcher, because if I'm preparing

433
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Speaker 1: these boys for direct I got to prepare them for

434
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Speaker 1: the fact that this hospital staff is going to come.

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00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: In and say he said it didn't happen. You got

436
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: to be ready for that.

437
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: If you believe the boys or don't believe the boys,

438
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Speaker 1: there's another nail in the coffin.

439
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 5: Absolutely all this evidence points towards his innocence, and it's exculpatory.

440
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 5: There's there's again, it's it's it's maddening to think that

441
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 5: the prosecutor filed this case to begin with, as you

442
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 5: know they have they have a.

443
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, Melcher, Wait a minute.

444
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: What if the prosecutor assume has spoken to the boys,

445
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: it believes the boys. So what you don't bring a

446
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: case just because somebody like Chris Melcher says, I can't

447
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: believe they did that. If you believe the victim, then

448
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: put the victim up on the stand and give it all.

449
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 3: You got to go in guns and blazon man.

450
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 5: No, it's not about believing anyone. It's whether you can

451
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 5: secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. That's an ethical

452
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 5: obligation of the prosecutor that I don't think is being

453
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 5: honored here based on this evidence. Because mal sure, if

454
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 5: you ask a child, a young child, over and over again,

455
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 5: in highly suggestive interviews, potentially by their parents, have you

456
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 5: been abused? Eventually you will get the answer that you're

457
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: looking for.

458
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: And it's well, they haven't gotten it yet.

459
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: Well, I know the prosecution hasn't spoken to the child

460
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: victims now adults, young adults, and they convinced the prosecution

461
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: has happened, and the prosecution believes them and believes that

462
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: they will carry the day regarding credibility, and they will

463
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: win the case. I mean, what you say is reasonably

464
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: expect a conviction. They may reasonably expect a conviction based

465
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: on the interviews of the alleged victims.

466
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: You don't know that.

467
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is you got to prep them for

468
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: what's going to happen on cross and it ain't pretty

469
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: what happens. Then they go to the hospital, they do

470
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: the cart interview, hospital staff says, all he did was

471
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: tickle them, all right, how does that turn into this?

472
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: Listen.

473
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 11: Police began investigating Busfield in November twenty twenty four, when

474
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 11: an investigator responds to a call from a doctor at

475
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 11: University New Mexico Hospital calling for investigation. The parents take

476
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 11: their boys to the hospital and the mother contacts Child

477
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 11: Protective Services, accusing Busfield of abusing the children. One of

478
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 11: the boys tells police Busfield first touched him inappropriately when

479
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 11: he was just seven, and again when he was eight.

480
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: So Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter the US Sun on

481
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: the case from the very beginning. Jessica, So at this juncture,

482
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: when a police officer speaks to the boys, they do

483
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: say at least one of them says, Timothy Busfield did

484
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: touch them either their front end or their back end. Right.

485
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 6: So there was actually a year between me and the

486
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 6: kids going being brought into the hospital and the hospital

487
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 6: reporting to police that they had believed that the child

488
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 6: the children were being groomed by Timothy, And then a

489
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 6: year later they said he had just tickled us, but

490
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 6: he didn't touch our privates at that point, and so

491
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 6: the police declined to prosecute anything on that, and so

492
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 6: a full year later, now we're talking October of twenty

493
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 6: twenty five, the boys, one of the boys reported to

494
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 6: his counselor at the time allegedly that Timothy had touched

495
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 6: him in the front on his privates and in the

496
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 6: background his privates, and so the counselor, who's a mandated reporter,

497
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 6: called the cops, and that's how the cops came to

498
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 6: this point where we're at, where Timothy has been arrested

499
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 6: because there was an allegation of actual touching maid. Now,

500
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 6: even though it's a full year later, that's yeah, that is.

501
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 6: The prosecution argues that basically, you know, it takes time

502
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 6: for kids to come forward with allegations like this, and

503
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 6: that they were intimidated by Timothy, and they were intimidated

504
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 6: by you know, the police and the art conversations with

505
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 6: police where they denied any kind of touching like this.

506
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: Detectives find the children didn't say anything to anyone on

507
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: the set even though they didn't like it, because Busfield

508
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 4: was the director and the children are afraid of making

509
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: the director angry or getting in trouble. The investigation reveals,

510
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 4: even though Busfield should not have been alone with the children.

511
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 4: Measures preventing such one on one contact were ignored, and

512
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: there were times when Buzzfield could have been alone with

513
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: the children, in particular SL on the set.

514
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: Interviews with personnel on the show reveal how the children

515
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: changed after Busfield joined the show. The boys were equally

516
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: happy to be in front of the cameras, but after

517
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: Busfield joined the show, SL became withdrawn, did not want

518
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: to be on set, and VL ended up being used

519
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: more than SL. The investigation determines Busfield did not have

520
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be alone with the boys, particularly sl Okay.

521
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, that means

522
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: something one of the boys became withdrawn and didn't want

523
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: to go on the set anymore. There are classic textbook

524
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: symptoms of molestation you look for, such as does a

525
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: child start wetting the bed? Do their grades drop? Do

526
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: they become quiet withdrawn? Sometimes they don't want to eat.

527
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: There are many classic symptoms of child molestation.

528
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: Yes, if you know what to look for.

529
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: Not wanting to go to the set anymore when they

530
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: previously loved going to the set.

531
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: That's an indicator.

532
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: It's not enough to build a case, and I can

533
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: tell you that right now, but it is an indicator.

534
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 8: Well, the reason that's an indicator, Nancy, is that avoidance

535
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 8: is a primary symptom of trauma. So when little boys

536
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 8: who love to be in front of the camera all

537
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 8: of a sudden don't want to go to set, that's

538
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 8: something you have to pay attention to, you know, Nancy.

539
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 8: Some predators, sex predators or pedophiles are what we call

540
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 8: interpersonal offenders. That means they don't go as far as

541
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 8: fondling the child's gen tolls or groping or molesting, but

542
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 8: they exploit the child emotionally. They have, as I said earlier,

543
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 8: poor boundaries, and they make the child feel like the

544
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 8: child is under their control, and that could be that

545
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 8: could be traumatic as well.

546
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: Okay, to the control room.

547
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: You keep showing shots, and Melissa Gilbert, I know what

548
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: you're doing.

549
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 3: She's married to Busfield, and I know what you're doing.

550
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 3: Everyone that works on crime stories knows that.

551
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: As my cases became more and more complex and more

552
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: and more upsetting. When I specialized in almost universally homicide, rape,

553
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: child molestation, I would watch the Little House in the prairie,

554
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: little house on the prairie in the morning, to brace.

555
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: Myself to go to court.

556
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: And finally in the end, when it was Serial Killers,

557
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: Serial Rapist, Serial Child Molisters, I had to watch two

558
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: episodes every morning before I could go to work.

559
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: That said, I'm attached to a little house on the prairie.

560
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,239
Speaker 1: So this case is not about Melissa Gilbert, even if

561
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: you want to make it about Melissa Gilbert.

562
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: And yes, she was in court, front row, crying, crying,

563
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: and while her.

564
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: Husband was in custody for some reason, she gives a

565
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: tour of her fridge.

566
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 8: At modern prairie, we always say life is too short

567
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 8: to eat dessert first, take your pick.

568
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

569
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall neither here nor there when it comes

570
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: into the case in chief whether this is going to

571
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: actually be a case, But why is she giving a

572
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: tour of her fridge while her husband is being charged

573
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: with yold lat's station multiple counts.

574
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 8: She may be trying to normal their household, Nancy. She

575
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 8: may be trying to indicate that she's a nurturing person,

576
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 8: that she believes her husband that this is a warm

577
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 8: and cozy home. It's not a place where a sex

578
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 8: predator lives. But you know, Nancy, something I always tell

579
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 8: my patients when they're about to marry somebody where this

580
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 8: questionable alliance. I say, when you marry a person, you

581
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 8: marry their crimes. Okay, So that's just wisdom I would

582
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 8: impart to everybody. Also, the letter that she wrote to

583
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 8: the court is very loving. She calls her husband a sweet,

584
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 8: sweet husband. But I would say that idealization is necessary

585
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 8: for a good marriage. You have to idealize your partner

586
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 8: a little bit, and when the idealization is gone, the

587
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 8: love is gone. So if he did commit these crimes,

588
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 8: that idealization is going to come crashing down and we're

589
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 8: going to see Okay, we're not going to see a

590
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 8: whole refrigerator anymore.

591
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: I don't care if they have fresh cut flow in

592
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: a vase. I don't care if there's real butter in

593
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: the fridge, because I have had chime molesters that range from.

594
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: Literally the creepy dude in the raincoat to pastors. So

595
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: appearances mean nothing to me.

596
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: Maybe it means something to this judge because he let

597
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: busfill or release on recognizants. Now, this is something that

598
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: means something to me a guy off of the set

599
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: where the children worked.

600
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: Listen to this guy.

601
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 10: At any given time, if the child was on set,

602
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 10: there was a minimum of ten people there on the

603
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 10: set with them. It's just how it works. There's two cameras,

604
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 10: two camera oppers, two focus ploorers, two boom guys, a

605
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 10: prop person, a hair and makeup person, the studio person

606
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 10: would usually be there, the first assistant director, two dolly grips.

607
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 10: And that's for every take, for every shot, always, especially

608
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 10: with the children, because we had such limited amount of

609
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 10: time with the children.

610
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: That from our friends at TMZ welcome back. We have

611
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: heard a lot about what is wrong with the two

612
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: little boys now grown and their testimony, their claims of

613
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: being abust victims. We've heard a lot about that, But

614
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: what about other alleged victims of Busfields.

615
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: It cannot be ignored. Listen.

616
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 11: Years ago, Sacramento, California, Busfield accused of abuse against a

617
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 11: sixteen year old auditioning for Busfield at Sacramento's B Street Theater.

618
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 11: The teen reports Busfield kissed her, put his hands down

619
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 11: her pants, and touched her privates. Busfield begged the family

620
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 11: not to report to law enforcement if he received therapy,

621
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 11: and the father, who was a therapist himself, thought at

622
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 11: the time that this was the best thing to do.

623
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 11: The father now says the incident changed the trajectory of

624
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 11: his daughter's life and he regrets not having gone to

625
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 11: the police at the time.

626
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: Out to Dave Mac, that was a sixteen year old girl.

627
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: What else is lurking in Busville's background, you.

628
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 7: Know, Nancy, We've got the first one we actually know

629
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 7: about was from the set of the movie Little Big League,

630
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 7: where a seventeen year old accused him a bus Field

631
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 7: of taking her back to his trailer, giving her alcohol

632
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 7: and then trying to kiss her and eventually groped her

633
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 7: and tried to rape her in the trailer just off

634
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 7: the set. That actually came front. They ended up settling

635
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 7: it out of court. And that was just like a taste.

636
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 7: She was seventeen. And when you go to the Sacramento

637
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 7: event again, a girl about the same age, and in

638
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 7: that instance they decided they bet stop.

639
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: Right there, Dave Mac, let's not call alleged victims.

640
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: Event don't say that.

641
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: Okay, now, you told me the one about the sixteen

642
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: year old girl on Little Big Field.

643
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, Next we've got the one in ninety four,

644
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 7: and then we've got another one in twenty twelve. In

645
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 7: that particular case, a woman said that she went on

646
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 7: a date with Buzzfield and while in the theater he

647
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 7: groped her and assaulted her. That actually went to the police, Nancy.

648
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 7: They sat down and interviewed everything and decided they didn't

649
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 7: have enough evidence to move forward from the attack in

650
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 7: the dark in theater. But that was in twenty twelve.

651
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 3: Now, wait a minute.

652
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: The nineteen ninety six case involving allegations of a child

653
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: sex assault, he paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars

654
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: to settle it. That's a lot of money, Okay, So

655
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: Chris Melcher, that gives credence to the current case. We

656
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: have a string prior allegations, and on at least one

657
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: of those, he settled for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

658
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think that's ever going to see the

659
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 5: light of day in any criminal case, because that's would

660
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 5: be character.

661
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: That that's not character evidence. He entered a settlement to

662
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 3: make the case go away. I don't even know what

663
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: you're saying. We're not.

664
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 5: It's character evidence because they would.

665
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: Be trying to transaction.

666
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 5: That's what it is, Yeah, to try to establish that

667
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 5: he acted in conformity with that alleged a prior incident,

668
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 5: with this prior this current incident. No way that's getting

669
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 5: in c. Harvey Weinstein case where that was reversed, where

670
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 5: they had uncharged.

671
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I can say. You know what

672
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: I am speaking from a place of investigation. I'm trying

673
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: to find out what really happened. So one hundred and

674
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars settlement on a prior and to Dave Matt,

675
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: can I talk to you about Jim Wicka, a former

676
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: lawyer who represented a seventeen year old girl who accused

677
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Bussfield of sex harassment in ninety four. What can you

678
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: tell me about a judge ordering Busfield to pay up to.

679
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: Wicka?

680
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 7: Well, you know, Wicka actually was the attorney in that case,

681
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 7: the ninety four case with the woman from Little Big

682
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 7: League and Timothy. Buzzfield counter sued his WICCA and the

683
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 7: law firm, saying they damaged him and damaged his character.

684
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 7: So he filed one hundred and fifty thousand dollars lawsuit

685
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 7: against Wicca and his partners, and the judge was just

686
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 7: beside himself and this is ridiculous and tossed everything and

687
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 7: it went back to Timothy Busfield having to pay for

688
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 7: the attorney's fees and everything associated with that case with

689
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 7: that woman, that young lady who actually you know, was

690
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 7: the actual victim in this case.

691
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's where the figure one hundred and fifty

692
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 1: thousand dollars comes from.

693
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: As after the lawyer sued and for defamation to Dave.

694
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: Mac how many alleged priors are there against Bussfeld?

695
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 7: Eight? I believe documented, Nancy, I've seen that number. I

696
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 7: haven't seen every one of those, just a lot of

697
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 7: the ones that we've talked about.

698
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: And Jessica Finn, what can you tell me about Busfield

699
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: passing a polygraph a lie detector? Was it a private

700
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: le detector set up by his lawyers or is it

701
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: a police light detector test?

702
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 6: So Timothy took a private light detector test in a

703
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 6: really unusual move, while there was a warrned out for

704
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 6: his arrest, and as he was driving two thousand miles

705
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 6: from upstate New York to New Mexico to finally turn

706
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 6: himself in, which again took five full days along the way,

707
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 6: he decided he was going to a lied detective test

708
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 6: about this to I guess help exonerate him or try

709
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 6: and keep him out of jail. And he was of

710
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 6: course held for several days behind bars until the detention

711
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 6: hearing that happened earlier this week. But he did take

712
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 6: a lie detective test that supposedly tells, you know, is

713
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 6: supposed to prove that he did not molest this little boy.

714
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: Allegedly, the judge seemingly agrees with the defense.

715
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: He releases Muzzfield are released on own recognisance.

716
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: What is true? What is just? In this case?

717
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: You just heard this judge speaking from the bench, and

718
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: our friends at TMZ recorded that, thank you, Harvey Levin.

719
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 1: The search for justice goes on. Are the boys telling

720
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: the truth? What about the other alleged victims? What happened

721
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: to their cases? And what if anything, does that have

722
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: to do with the here and now. If you know

723
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: or think you know anything regarding this case, please call

724
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: Albuquerque PD. Five zero five eight four three seven eight

725
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: six seven five zero five eight four three seven eight

726
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: six seven. We remember an American hero, Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson, Verona,

727
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: p D. Mississippi, killed in the line of duty after

728
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: twenty eight years, leaving behind a distraught and grieving wife

729
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 1: and two sons. American Hero Assistant Chief Johnny Patterson Nancy

730
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,959
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye friend,