Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a bride egg,
Speaker 1: Friday Egg, the dread and Frida Egg, Frida Egg, Frida
Speaker 1: Egg Egg, Frida Egg, Bride Egg.
Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. I'm Garrett Morrison, and
Speaker 1: today we're talking about the past, present and future of
Speaker 1: the President's Cup. So the twenty twenty two President's Cup
Speaker 1: starts at Quail Hollow today with the US team facing
Speaker 1: off against the international squad, and it sort of feels
Speaker 1: like this is a fork in the road for this
Speaker 1: team matchplay event. Overall, the defections to live golf have
Speaker 1: weakened both teams really, but especially the international side, and
Speaker 1: the fear is that the President's Cup will become even
Speaker 1: less competitive, even more lopsided than it has been historically.
Speaker 1: So we figured it was a good time to talk
Speaker 1: about where this event came from, what it is now,
Speaker 1: and whether it's ultimately worth fighting for. To discuss all
Speaker 1: of that, I'm joined by Andy Johnson. Andy, how's it going.
Speaker 2: Garrett, It's going great. I'm excited to dig into the
Speaker 2: President's Cup. I I made a proclamation on the shotgun
Speaker 2: start maybe last year that I thought that one of
Speaker 2: my you know takes, was that the President's Cup would
Speaker 2: would overtake the Ryder Cup in terms of competitiveness over
Speaker 2: the next thirty years. Then Live came and pretty much
Speaker 2: snatched away all of us great players, and here we
Speaker 2: are at Really, I think you put it correctly acrossroads
Speaker 2: because you know, with the the international flavor of the
Speaker 2: Live Tour that they've created and coached you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of the big name your international players, this event
Speaker 2: really has been has been weakened, and I feel bad
Speaker 2: for it because I think, you know, we're going to
Speaker 2: get into the history of this event, but I think
Speaker 2: one of the things is that it got off to
Speaker 2: a little bit of a slow start because it didn't
Speaker 2: have a real imaginative creation. It was really kind of
Speaker 2: a copy of the Ryder Cup. But it was showing promise, especially,
Speaker 2: you know, I think one of the recent high high
Speaker 2: water moments for it was obviously Royal Melbourne, where it
Speaker 2: was in a very competitive match between you know teams
Speaker 2: and you could start to see this young talent that
Speaker 2: the international side had, and if you look at the
Speaker 2: world rankings, if the internationals were able to, you know,
Speaker 2: have the players that should be available to them, And
Speaker 2: if you give some players some additional world ranking points,
Speaker 2: you're also looking at like seven or eight top thirty players,
Speaker 2: which would all of a sudden create a very formidable matchup.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the thing about it is that
Speaker 2: this event was really trending into becoming something that was
Speaker 2: going to be better than it had been the last
Speaker 2: twenty years significantly, and I think something that could have
Speaker 2: been pretty good, and now you're kind of back of
Speaker 2: the drawing board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really a big blow to the President's
Speaker 1: Cup to lose Cameron Smith, to lose Abe answer, who
Speaker 1: are some other players that were pretty significant losses recently.
Speaker 2: Louis Usasan. You go down the list and there's just
Speaker 2: there's a lot of guys that, you know, if you
Speaker 2: look at the best players on the effectively the best
Speaker 2: players on on live, a lot of them. Joaquin Neeman
Speaker 2: obviously comes to mind, top twenty player. So you know,
Speaker 2: between answer Usasan, Cam Smith and Neeman, that's for top
Speaker 2: thirty players that are that are gone and and really
Speaker 2: when you look at the captives picks, they're being a
Speaker 2: replaced by guys that are borderline top one hundred players.
Speaker 2: So the issue for the international team has always been depth.
Speaker 2: The format, which is which is more golf illuminates this
Speaker 2: issue with the international team, and the second that they
Speaker 2: were building depth, they've had kind of the chair pulled
Speaker 2: out from under them with live golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a real shame. We'll talk more
Speaker 1: later in the pod about the future of the President's
Speaker 1: Cup and we'll talk about some ideas about where it
Speaker 1: could go next, but I wanted to get a little
Speaker 1: bit into the history. So first of all, what have
Speaker 1: you made of the President's Cup in your life of
Speaker 1: golf fandom? Have you enjoyed the President's Cup in general?
Speaker 2: H Yeah, I mean at times there's moments of where
Speaker 2: it's been great. I think you know when it goes
Speaker 2: when it goes to Royal Melbourne and it's on in
Speaker 2: December and it's on at night. You know, that's an
Speaker 2: example of a great event, right because it's it's you're
Speaker 2: seeing a world class course. You're seeing a course that
Speaker 2: has like a distinct home advantage for the Australian players, right,
Speaker 2: so that gives that makes it a little bit more even.
Speaker 2: And you saw, like the last time, you know, the
Speaker 2: US was kind of perplexed by the golf course, but
Speaker 2: they figured it out as it went and they got
Speaker 2: better and better on the golf course as the event
Speaker 2: went on. So you know, it's had these great moments.
Speaker 2: You obviously, the els Woods playoff into Darkness was was
Speaker 2: an iconic President's Cup moment and the moment that everybody remembers.
Speaker 2: But then it also has like, just like sheer skippability,
Speaker 2: irrelevant moments like Liberty National blowout comes to mind, where
Speaker 2: you're playing a pretty pretty bland golf course that obviously
Speaker 2: has great views of the New York skyline, but just
Speaker 2: a complete lopsided victory. And you know that we play
Speaker 2: sports for these these upsets that could happen this week.
Speaker 2: But right now, you know, I think the average world
Speaker 2: rank of the Mayorricans is eleven, and you know, the
Speaker 2: the international team is grasping at straws here in terms
Speaker 2: of a talent disparity. You know, they're plus almost seven
Speaker 2: hundred and betting odds, which is which is like a
Speaker 2: top five college football team, losing to a you know,
Speaker 2: a non Power five school, so like you're talking about
Speaker 2: that's unranked. You're talking about like a monumental upset here,
Speaker 2: and hopefully we get some sort of hopefully just Sunday
Speaker 2: has some semblance of competition, but in terms of you know,
Speaker 2: it's just been a hit or miss event, right, Whereas
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup is musty TV every year, the the
Speaker 2: Majors are musty TV every year, this is an event
Speaker 2: where you're kind of like, well, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, one thing I will say for the President's
Speaker 1: Cup is that it has one big thing going to
Speaker 1: its benefit, and that is that it is team match play,
Speaker 1: and this format is magical, Like it just produces fun moments,
Speaker 1: even in the midst of blowouts. I would say, I
Speaker 1: don't think there's really such a thing as a completely
Speaker 1: dull team match play event. For one thing, because when
Speaker 1: you get down to the singles matches, unless it's a
Speaker 1: historic blowout that we haven't really seen before, there's always
Speaker 1: a sliver of a chance that the team that's behind
Speaker 1: will catch up in the singles matches on Sunday, and
Speaker 1: that gives you a reason to watch to the very end,
Speaker 1: and then beyond that, just the match play dynamics between players.
Speaker 1: It always creates something that's worth paying attention to. I think,
Speaker 1: something that's at least funny, even if it isn't dramatic
Speaker 1: in terms of the play. So I will say that
Speaker 1: because there's all kinds of things that you could say
Speaker 1: by way of critique of the President's Cup, like you know,
Speaker 1: and we will say them in this podcast. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just this created event. It doesn't really have that
Speaker 1: grade of a history. It was just created to kind
Speaker 1: of make money and to stave off competition, and so
Speaker 1: there are all those things that you can say about it.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the matches itself, when the
Speaker 1: President's Cup actually starts, I find that every time I
Speaker 1: just put all that other stuff out of my mind
Speaker 1: and I end up enjoying the tournament. I just do.
Speaker 1: And so I will say that for it, I'm glad
Speaker 1: that it's around. It's certainly better than whatever it would
Speaker 1: have been replaced by this fall. Right if we were
Speaker 1: getting another Fortinet on the PGA Tour or another live
Speaker 1: Chicago or something like that, this would be a completely
Speaker 1: boring week and we would be doing a podcast about
Speaker 1: something else. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. And I think this is the thing,
Speaker 2: is like we crave different formats just because we see
Speaker 2: the same format so often, and this is an intoxicating format,
Speaker 2: like it creates cool like se Wo Kim with the shushing,
Speaker 2: you know, it's a moment that you'll remember from Liberty National,
Speaker 2: even though he was just getting as ass kicked that
Speaker 2: the team was all week, right, I think it was
Speaker 2: it like three down when he did that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just stuff like that. It's silly stuff
Speaker 1: that you don't see at other events. That's what the
Speaker 1: team match play environment creates.
Speaker 2: So I think that's a fair assessment. It's better than
Speaker 2: a regular event. But is it the rider? It does
Speaker 2: it deliver with the consistent of the Ryder Cup, you know?
Speaker 2: And I think that's where I would say that from
Speaker 2: the start this event was maligned for being a copy
Speaker 2: of the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So why don't we go back into some of
Speaker 1: that history and talk about where the President's Cup came from?
Speaker 1: So I did some research here. I was expecting when
Speaker 1: I started this research that I would just be talking
Speaker 1: to you about what happened in the early nineties and
Speaker 1: how the President's Cup was created in that moment. But
Speaker 1: as I dug into the research, I kept going farther
Speaker 1: and farther back in time. Eventually I just had to
Speaker 1: stop myself because I was going to like go back
Speaker 1: to the nineteenth century and talk about how the beginnings
Speaker 1: of golf eventually led to the President's Cup. But I
Speaker 1: eventually just stopped in the late sixties, and that's where
Speaker 1: I want to start from in talking about where the
Speaker 1: President's Cup came from. And what happened in the late
Speaker 1: sixties was that the PGA of America split from what
Speaker 1: would become the PGA Tour. Okay, so the PGA of
Speaker 1: America for decades ran what was then the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: But in the fifties and sixties, tournament players started to
Speaker 1: become richer and more famous, and they wanted to have
Speaker 1: their own tour, independent from the club pro or the
Speaker 1: golf professionals organization. So, Andy, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: know this, but a golf professional is different from a
Speaker 1: professional golfer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard that before. You know, I could see
Speaker 2: how they were intervexed a little bit, how confusion could come,
Speaker 2: you know, given the early origins of the touring pro
Speaker 2: involved some time at a club because they couldn't, you know,
Speaker 2: they didn't make enough money on the road to support
Speaker 2: their family. But yes, I am aware that there is
Speaker 2: a big difference.
Speaker 1: There is a big difference, and that difference really became
Speaker 1: clear in the nineteen sixties when tournament golf became much
Speaker 1: more profitable because of the popularity of players like Arnold
Speaker 1: Palmer particularly, but also Jack Nicholas and others. So in
Speaker 1: the late sixties, the tournament players wanted to split from
Speaker 1: the PGA of America, and in the negotiations, the PGA
Speaker 1: of America got to retain certain tournament properties and the
Speaker 1: tournament players took other tournament properties. And one of the
Speaker 1: properties that the PGA of America got to keep was
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup, which at the time was not nearly
Speaker 1: as profitable, was not nearly as popular, and really was
Speaker 1: kind of a money loser for many many years. But
Speaker 1: it was at the time a competition between Great Britain
Speaker 1: and Ireland and the US. Eventually it would become Team
Speaker 1: Europe versus the US, but in any case, the PGA
Speaker 1: of America got the Ryder Cup. That wasn't that big
Speaker 1: of a deal the tournament players what would become the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour got the World Series of Golf, and the
Speaker 1: World Series of Golf was a competition in late summer
Speaker 1: or fall between the four major winners from that season,
Speaker 1: and it was really a pretty big deal. It was
Speaker 1: a fairly popular event that people looked forward to, that
Speaker 1: people liked, and so getting this event was kind of
Speaker 1: a big deal for the PGA Tour. But what the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour did is that they almost immediately turned it
Speaker 1: into a seventy two hole stroke play event. In the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, it was held at Firestone Country Club, and
Speaker 1: by the nineteen nineties it was just this kind of
Speaker 1: part of the PGA Tour schedule that wasn't really super
Speaker 1: distinguishable from the rest of the PGA Tour schedule. It
Speaker 1: was just another stroke play event. Ultimately, it was replaced
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine by a WGC, the WGC Invitational
Speaker 1: that the Tiger Woods won a number of times. It
Speaker 1: was the WGC Bridgestone. It moved from Firestone to TPC
Speaker 1: South Wind in twenty nineteen, and now it kind of
Speaker 1: no longer exists. So think about how that happened, right, So,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour got the World Series of Golf instead
Speaker 1: of the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup goes on to
Speaker 1: become this very popular event, the World Series of Golf
Speaker 1: just gets kind of absorbed into the rest of the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour schedule. I think that's kind of an amazing
Speaker 1: illustration of some of the things that the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: has not done right over the past forty years or so.
Speaker 2: I think that they like kind of believed that every
Speaker 2: event should be in a way the same, and that's
Speaker 2: what they did with this is they took a unique
Speaker 2: property and made the same. The one thing I wonder
Speaker 2: about is then did they bring the World Series of
Speaker 2: Golf back, because I remember that that event existing, you know,
Speaker 2: did it go away for a while and they bring
Speaker 2: it back later?
Speaker 1: So the PGA of America started its own kind of
Speaker 1: World Series of Golf. Now, Oh, I've forgotten what it
Speaker 1: was called. It might have been called the World Cup
Speaker 1: of Golf.
Speaker 2: I remember that World Series of Golf existing though in
Speaker 2: the nineties, like the same format, like the player the
Speaker 2: major winners from years before.
Speaker 1: And it was run by the PGA of America.
Speaker 2: So the tour got rid of it and the PGA
Speaker 2: brought it back.
Speaker 1: Yes, the PGA brought it back in like the late seventies,
Speaker 1: and Dean Beaman was royally pissed off about that. He
Speaker 1: did not like that the PGA of America had basically
Speaker 1: like given them the World Series of Golf and then
Speaker 1: the PGA of America went and created its own version
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, was that was a conflict between
Speaker 1: the two organizations for sure, But yeah, the pg of
Speaker 1: America decided to recreate it once. Of course, the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour had moved away from the original format of the
Speaker 1: World Series of Golf that had apparently made it popular.
Speaker 1: That's kind of I mean, all in all, that's sort
Speaker 1: of a digression in this history, but I think it
Speaker 1: was just so representative of how the PGA Tour dealt
Speaker 1: with its events that I had to mention it. So
Speaker 1: the real thing that led directly to the creation of
Speaker 1: the President's Cup, or one of the main factors, was
Speaker 1: that the Writer Cup became extremely popular and profitable by
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. So in the eighties the Writer Cup
Speaker 1: was competitive, but it wasn't yet really truly profitable. In
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, it was the War on the Shore
Speaker 1: at Kiowa Island. It was televised in a US national
Speaker 1: market live on NBC. You know, before it had been
Speaker 1: kind of pushed to weird times on not as prominent networks,
Speaker 1: and so this was really the first time that the
Speaker 1: Writer Cup was beamed into people's living rooms across the
Speaker 1: US in a major way. And it was this huge success.
Speaker 1: It was such an exciting tournament the US one that
Speaker 1: when the Ryder Cup really became the modern Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: And now just imagine Dean Beaman, who knew, of course
Speaker 1: that the fledgling PGA Tour did not get the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup in those initial negotiations with the PGA of America.
Speaker 1: Just imagine how pissed off Beaman was in that moment
Speaker 1: when the Ryder Cup really had its moment. He was
Speaker 1: probably thinking, well, this is not good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: Exactly, huge missed opportunity. And Dean Beaman tried a number
Speaker 1: of times to buy the Ryder Cup from the PGA
Speaker 1: of America, but the PGA of America always refused. So
Speaker 1: here's Beman, the commissioner of the PGA Tour. He wants
Speaker 1: his own version of the Ryder Cup. By the early nineties. Now,
Speaker 1: the other thing that really cleared the way for the
Speaker 1: President's Cup to be created was the collapse of what
Speaker 1: was called the Four Tours World Championship. Have you ever
Speaker 1: heard of this event, Andy No, I hadn't either. I
Speaker 1: had no idea that this event existed, but it did.
Speaker 1: It was originally called the Nissan Cup, then the Kieran Cup,
Speaker 1: then the Four Tours World Championship. It was a team
Speaker 1: matchplay event between the PGA Tour, the European Tour, the
Speaker 1: Australasian Tour, and the Japan Tour. And it was held
Speaker 1: between nineteen eighty five in nineteen ninety one. The players
Speaker 1: who participated in it included Nick Faldo, Greg Norman, Bernhard Langer,
Speaker 1: Fred Couples, Payne Stewart, but Seviy Biasteros never played in it.
Speaker 1: Tom Watson never played in it, and so it wasn't
Speaker 1: really a sensation, right, And ultimately it folded in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one when the sponsor pulled out. But what that
Speaker 1: did is the created a void and there was suddenly
Speaker 1: a race to fill that void. This was nineteen ninety two, right.
Speaker 1: The nineteen ninety one Ryder Cup has always already happened.
Speaker 1: People are recognizing that team match play is a formula
Speaker 1: for making a lot of money. And so there's this
Speaker 1: race to create a new international team matchplay event. And
Speaker 1: one of the organizations that wanted to create its own
Speaker 1: team matchplay event was IMG, right, the agency Mark McCormack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And as Beeman put it at the time, he said,
Speaker 1: this was a vacuum that was going to be filled
Speaker 1: and we better fill it first, right, We the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour need to beat IMG to the punch. Here now,
Speaker 1: this is an excerpt from Adam Shupac's book Golf's Driving Force. Right.
Speaker 1: I want to give much credit to this book because
Speaker 1: it really filled in a lot of history for me.
Speaker 1: This is how Adam Shuepack describes the race to create
Speaker 1: a new international team event. He said on December twenty first,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, several months in advance of the public
Speaker 1: and unveiling of the President's Cup, IMG issued a short
Speaker 1: press release with plans to pit the holder of the
Speaker 1: Writer Cup, but not restricted to the same team members
Speaker 1: against a team from the Southern Hemisphere consisting of Australia,
Speaker 1: New Zealand, Southern Africa, South America, and the Pacific Islands
Speaker 1: in a biennial major international golf tournament. No date, no site,
Speaker 1: or formal name for the matches was announced, but it
Speaker 1: was planned to debut in late nineteen ninety four under
Speaker 1: the tentative title of the Hemisphere Cup. A two million
Speaker 1: dollar perse was reported. According to IMG's Alistair Johnston, the
Speaker 1: concept had the backing of a consortium of international television companies,
Speaker 1: including ABC Sports in the US, Sky Television in Great Britain,
Speaker 1: and Star Television in Hong Kong. So this was IMG's concept,
Speaker 1: the Hemisphere Cup. And so recognizing that this first Hemisphere
Speaker 1: Cup was going to take place in late nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour basically rushed to create the President's Cup,
Speaker 1: which is the competition that we know now between the
Speaker 1: US team and an international collection of players who are
Speaker 1: not from Europe.
Speaker 2: That it was eerily similar.
Speaker 1: Very similar to the Hemisphere Cup idea, right.
Speaker 2: And especially when you fast forward to you know what
Speaker 2: created some Greg Norman angst and there originally was the
Speaker 2: WG season his World Tour.
Speaker 1: Idea, absolutely, and that becomes relevant in the story after
Speaker 1: the President's Cup is created because it's at the same
Speaker 1: time that Greg Norman is trying to form the World Tour. Right,
Speaker 1: these things are happening concurrently. But one thing to note
Speaker 1: about the difference between the differences between the Hemisphere Cup
Speaker 1: pitch and the President's Cup pitch is that the Hemisphere
Speaker 1: Cup involved the winner of the past year's Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: So it could be Team Europe or it could be
Speaker 1: Team USA.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: The President's Cup is always Team USA, right, So the
Speaker 1: President's Cup, the main difference is the US team is
Speaker 1: always featured. But it's just really interesting, right, the President's Cup.
Speaker 1: The only reason that the first President's Cup happened in
Speaker 1: nineteen nine before was that IMG was going to create
Speaker 1: its own international team match play event to kind of
Speaker 1: capitalize on the new popularity of the Ryder Cup. That's
Speaker 1: why the President's Cup came about.
Speaker 2: Well, I just think that it just speaks to just
Speaker 2: the general adage of the tour, which is when they
Speaker 2: see something they like, they want to do it themselves.
Speaker 2: And it's not a it's not really a collaborative situation, right,
Speaker 2: And one of the issues when when something's not your idea,
Speaker 2: it always lacks an authenticity, It always has an authenticity issue.
Speaker 2: And I think that at its core, the President's Cup
Speaker 2: has been plagued by this is clearly something that the
Speaker 2: tour is doing to make money. This is a profit
Speaker 2: versus the Ryder Cup was you know, when you think
Speaker 2: about the image of the Ryder Cup, the Ryder Cup
Speaker 2: prints cash now, but it didn't always print cash. And
Speaker 2: what led to it pretty cash was the establish of
Speaker 2: a clear identity of history. Like the event was allowed
Speaker 2: to breathe and it was allowed to be a loser
Speaker 2: for a while before it became a winner. You know,
Speaker 2: That's the way a lot of businesses work is that
Speaker 2: they struggle early on before they become like, you know,
Speaker 2: a great event. When when things are overnight sensations, oftentimes
Speaker 2: they struggle with success. The President's Cup was like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're gonna set this event up and we're going to
Speaker 2: make so much money. And like a perfect example is
Speaker 2: having four days of attendance, four days of TV that
Speaker 2: is done for money, that is done for TV contracts
Speaker 2: and attendance. Right, they have four days of competition. What
Speaker 2: that four days that money, that added money they get
Speaker 2: has hampered the international's international team's ability to compete because
Speaker 2: the longer you play this out, talent wins and the
Speaker 2: US has always had more talent. So that's a perfect
Speaker 2: example of like, if you wanted to create a more
Speaker 2: compelling competition, you'd want it shorter. Maybe it's a two
Speaker 2: day thing, and the Internationals would have a really great chance,
Speaker 2: like they would have won the last President's Cup if
Speaker 2: it was two or three days. So with this you
Speaker 2: see how every decision they make is not really theirs.
Speaker 2: But then also with the President's Cup, and the founding
Speaker 2: of the President's Cup was really centered around making money,
Speaker 2: which is a bad intention if you want to create
Speaker 2: a really compelling golf tournament.
Speaker 1: Everything about the President's Cup is kind of artificial, right.
Speaker 1: The international team is just kind of a random collection
Speaker 1: of countries that is more determined by the structure of
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup than it is by any natural relationship
Speaker 1: between the players on that team. Now that's not to
Speaker 1: say that Trevor Immilmann, the captain of this year's President's
Speaker 1: Cup International team, can't create some kind of identity for
Speaker 1: the players, but it just doesn't exist there beforehand. So
Speaker 1: the President's Cup is this completely artificial money making construction, right,
Speaker 1: But I think it's a testament to the magic of
Speaker 1: team match play that it works at all.
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Speaker 1: So you did a little bit of research of your own.
Speaker 1: You were reading some old articles What are some of
Speaker 1: the highlights there? What were some of the things that
Speaker 1: stuck out to you?
Speaker 2: So, you know, Norman in ninety four was sick, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and they wound up, and they wound up so he
Speaker 2: couldn't play his singles match.
Speaker 1: I've always found that so weird. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that Norman was a big booster of the President's Cup.
Speaker 1: I think he was jealous of the Writer Cup and
Speaker 1: the fame that it brought players like Sevy and Nick Faldo.
Speaker 1: So I think he was in support of the President's Cup.
Speaker 1: But his his kind of uh staying out of that
Speaker 1: that first President's Cup is so strange because I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure what was wrong with him. I guess he
Speaker 1: had like something like the flu. But then he showed
Speaker 1: up on the last day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was in the crowd, Yeah, exactly. So, So
Speaker 2: I mean here's this is, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: most high profile players in the world, right, you know,
Speaker 2: arguably like at the time, the face of golf, right,
Speaker 2: And I think obviously it under the underlying issue here
Speaker 2: when he go from ninety four to ninety six is
Speaker 2: greg Norman has a real issue with any sort of authority.
Speaker 2: He had all kinds of issues with sponsors over the years,
Speaker 2: he had all kinds of issues, like anybody that that
Speaker 2: he effectively reports to in some way or like you know,
Speaker 2: he has an issue with So anyways, he he is
Speaker 2: on this he's sick, and the telcast wants to make
Speaker 2: him up and he's game for it. You know what
Speaker 2: better than playing than the day in the spotlight tell
Speaker 2: you know, commenting and being a real part of the
Speaker 2: tournament when you're too ill to play, but you're you're like,
Speaker 2: I couldn't I think of it if I was felt
Speaker 2: really bad. The last thing I want to be doing
Speaker 2: is spectating a golf event. That's just me. So anyways,
Speaker 2: David Graham the captain of the of the international team.
Speaker 2: Great Australian player, I think you know at the time
Speaker 2: he was the only Australian I believe he was forty eight,
Speaker 2: so he's still he hadn't transitioned to the senior tour,
Speaker 2: which was one of the reasons he was the captain.
Speaker 2: He was in his later forties. He'd won two majors,
Speaker 2: you know, two different majors too, so he was really
Speaker 2: well respected. He said, no, absolutely not. You can't mike
Speaker 2: him up, and so that made Norman really mad, and
Speaker 2: Norman held this grudge and staged effectively a coup in
Speaker 2: before the ninety sixth event two months out, the players
Speaker 2: voted to dismiss. There was a mutiny, They kicked Graham
Speaker 2: out as captain, and Peter Tomson eventually took over. You know,
Speaker 2: they had this player only meeting and David Graham was
Speaker 2: all for it. All the players are getting together, this
Speaker 2: is great. And in this player meeting they end up
Speaker 2: kicking Graham out and Fincham had no clue this was coming.
Speaker 2: Graham had no clue this was coming. It was an
Speaker 2: utter disaster for the event and thus it led to
Speaker 2: Peter Thompson being the captain and he like let none
Speaker 2: of the players talk about this. It was considered an
Speaker 2: utter embarrassment that this was happening. So, just a crazy
Speaker 2: little tidbit of President's Cup history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Greg Norman essentially led a mutiny against his captain.
Speaker 2: What a surprise that Greg Norman did something divisive.
Speaker 1: And what's remarkable about this is that the nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: six President's Cup is essentially where I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: this is a historical fact, but it's right around the
Speaker 1: same time that Tim Fincham announced the World Golf Championships.
Speaker 1: And so Fincham made this announcement and it took Norman
Speaker 1: by surprise because earlier he had come up with the
Speaker 1: idea of a World Golf Tour, but eventually he had
Speaker 1: been kind of outflanked by Tim Fincham and that idea
Speaker 1: fell apart. Now here we are at the nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: six President's Cup. Tim Fincham has just announced that the
Speaker 1: World Golf Championships are going to be established in a
Speaker 1: couple of years. Greg Norman is absolutely livid, and he
Speaker 1: confronts Tim Fincham in the lobby of the hotel where
Speaker 1: both President's Cup teams are staying, and they have a
Speaker 1: bit of an argument. I'm not sure it was a
Speaker 1: shouting match or anything like that, but it was significant
Speaker 1: enough so that it was actually reported in the press
Speaker 1: at the time that Fincham and Norman had a confrontation
Speaker 1: in the lobby at the President's Cup. So just think
Speaker 1: about Greg Norman's story in the lead up to the
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six President's Cup. Right, he didn't play in
Speaker 1: the ninety four President's Cup because of some kind of
Speaker 1: strange random illness that he had. And then he shows
Speaker 1: up at the ninety six President's Cup having ousted as captain,
Speaker 1: and then he gets into it with a PGA tour
Speaker 1: commissioner in the lobby of the hotel. I mean, is
Speaker 1: just a ridiculous sequence of events. And then a couple
Speaker 1: of decades later he's a President's Cup captain and then
Speaker 1: he gets kind of pushed out of the captaincy and
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel good about that either. That was a
Speaker 1: whole other controversy he has had a Norman has really
Speaker 1: had a tumultuous relationship with the President's Cup. And guess what.
Speaker 1: Now he's the head of a league that is absolutely
Speaker 1: attacking the President's Cup right now, just picking off players
Speaker 1: who would be significant parts of the international team.
Speaker 2: It's almost as if he had a vendetta against it.
Speaker 1: It's almost as if he's motivated a bit by revenge here.
Speaker 1: It's almost almost like that. All right, So I want
Speaker 1: to get into where we think the President's Cup is
Speaker 1: going from here. I mean, we don't have to talk
Speaker 1: too much about the Quail Hollow matches. I think they're
Speaker 1: pretty lopsided, right at least that's how it looks going
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: I think the thing I would say is that the
Speaker 2: Internationals could very well win. That's why we play the game.
Speaker 1: They have world class players too, they just don't have,
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of like top ten talent that
Speaker 1: the US team has pretty much across the board.
Speaker 2: Upsets happen all the time, but the reality of the
Speaker 2: situation is whether or not they win or lose. I
Speaker 2: think the one big thing is in years future, our
Speaker 2: live player is going to be allowed to be involved.
Speaker 2: And that's a big question. I you know, I don't
Speaker 2: have as much of a problem with the President's Cup
Speaker 2: continuing if in two years live players are playing, because
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, the talent differential is not
Speaker 2: as great as it was. But assuming live players are
Speaker 2: not involved, then you know, you have to look and
Speaker 2: you have to say, hey, what are we doing? And
Speaker 2: I don't think that this can go on with the
Speaker 2: talent differential that is in play for this event.
Speaker 1: Say that the status quo as the golf world has
Speaker 1: settled into right now, say that, you know, more or less,
Speaker 1: within the next couple of years, things kind of stay
Speaker 1: how they are right now. What would you want to
Speaker 1: see the President's Cup do? Would you want it to
Speaker 1: remain the same kind of team matchplay event, or are
Speaker 1: there other ideas that we can go with.
Speaker 2: I've got a few ideas here. Now I'm going to
Speaker 2: go from like easiest to most difficult to implement for
Speaker 2: the for the tour. Okay, idea number one easiest to
Speaker 2: implement is make the international team include Europe, all right,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you have it involves
Speaker 2: the entire tour. Which I've always thought is really weird
Speaker 2: is that you have this event that doesn't evolve all
Speaker 2: of the tour. And I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: issues with the event is that arguably your most marketable
Speaker 2: player on tour isn't involved with it, which is weird
Speaker 2: to me. And obviously that's because of the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: They probably didn't want to feel like, you know, early
Speaker 2: on that they were stepping on their toes. But at
Speaker 2: this point, you know, this isn't a this isn't a competition, really,
Speaker 2: this is this is a early week Alabama scheduling game
Speaker 2: against a really inferior opponent. And that's the quickest way,
Speaker 2: the easiest way to make this more competitive given the
Speaker 2: current landscape, and arguably then you you have a claim
Speaker 2: that you have the most competitive matches. Now, I don't
Speaker 2: know if there's some sort of clause that they can't
Speaker 2: include Europe Like, it wouldn't surprise me. I mean the PGA.
Speaker 2: If I were the PGA, I would be absolutely irate
Speaker 2: if they did that.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, so that's the easiest option to relevance. And if
Speaker 2: you think about this week, if John Rahm and Rory
Speaker 2: were playing this, this would be completely different story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess so. But but the problem would be
Speaker 1: then the President's Cup would be even harder to differentiate
Speaker 1: from the Ryder Cup. Right then it would be even
Speaker 1: closer in its concept.
Speaker 2: It would. But I don't think that really worries the tour.
Speaker 2: They have a long history of copying, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, you think you think they don't really care about
Speaker 1: the current identity.
Speaker 2: They're pretty ShaSS.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that relies on this random concept of an international team. No,
Speaker 1: I see that. I think that maybe they would be
Speaker 1: a little bit worried that eventually you'd have a situation
Speaker 1: where the players who would qualify for the non US
Speaker 1: team would be all the same players who were just
Speaker 1: in the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't think that is that is an issue though,
Speaker 2: because you've got the South Koreans that you know, the
Speaker 2: South Korean golf contingent I think is only going to grow, and.
Speaker 1: The Australians continue to be strong though though a lot
Speaker 1: of them have gone to live.
Speaker 2: I think the European if you look at it right now,
Speaker 2: and obviously the way you know, I don't think Europe's
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup hopes look very good. And obviously it's been
Speaker 2: a long time since the US is won Ryder Cup
Speaker 2: in Europe, you can say that, but like the strength
Speaker 2: of the team is not what it used to be.
Speaker 2: You know, the golden age of European golf I don't
Speaker 2: think is necessarily right now. You know, they have some
Speaker 2: good high end talent, but I think they're running into
Speaker 2: the same issue that the internationals. The other thing is
Speaker 2: just the rise of the of the talent of American
Speaker 2: golf is at an unfor never before seen depth of talent.
Speaker 2: Right this is less so about Europe getting weaker and
Speaker 2: more so about how good American golf has gotten. So
Speaker 2: with that, I would say that's the number one. Number two.
Speaker 2: This is this is the social media darling is let
Speaker 2: the women, let the women play, have it be a
Speaker 2: co ed event international men and women against American men
Speaker 2: and women. Obviously, I think from from number one, creates
Speaker 2: like probably the most marketable event on the golf calendar.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's just like a no brainer, slammed
Speaker 2: unk marketable golf event. It would be exciting, people would
Speaker 2: be super into it. It would be a home run
Speaker 2: from the PR department. Now, the issue and everybody this
Speaker 2: is like, everybody flows this out there. Why aren't they
Speaker 2: doing this? The best international women players are the best
Speaker 2: players in women's golf, or international players the best players
Speaker 2: in men's golf a American players. When you put the
Speaker 2: two teams together, all of a sudden, they look very
Speaker 2: equal because you've got kind of, you know, lesser talent
Speaker 2: on the American women's side, you've got greater talent on
Speaker 2: the international women's side, and you kind of you blend
Speaker 2: those teams together, they look really formidable, like they kind
Speaker 2: of are mirror opposites of each other. Now, the issue,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't they do this? That would require the PGA
Speaker 2: Tour to share some of that money, which is why
Speaker 2: they started the event in the first place. And it
Speaker 2: always comes back to this money thing with the tour,
Speaker 2: and they do not want to share money. It's why
Speaker 2: a lot of great ideas haven't happened. Is it the
Speaker 2: tour to collaborate now, maybe they'd be more open to
Speaker 2: doing this with Live around, you know, like if I
Speaker 2: were running Live, I might look into trying to do
Speaker 2: this event on my own because I've got their ramp
Speaker 2: Go series already. Like there's there's all kinds of natural fits.
Speaker 2: But for the tour, this is a This is a
Speaker 2: no brainer in terms of competition, is going to be enhanced.
Speaker 2: I think the general interest for the event is enhanced.
Speaker 1: The global interest. I think that just imagine South Korea, right,
Speaker 1: how how excited the South Korean market would be about
Speaker 1: their exceptional women golfers being involved in this event exactly.
Speaker 2: And and then you've got like the corporate interests. I
Speaker 2: think there'll be a ton of corporate partner you know,
Speaker 2: they already have great corporate partners for this. But like
Speaker 2: any losses that you're sharing with the LPGA Tour in
Speaker 2: terms of giving them money, probably is going to be
Speaker 2: offset by corporate sponsors that want in and want to
Speaker 2: support this event, But that would require them conceding some money.
Speaker 2: Like the fear of losing out of some of this
Speaker 2: money would be an issue. So that's option two. Option three,
Speaker 2: which is kind of you know, if you if you
Speaker 2: don't do that. This is my other favorite one is
Speaker 2: make it an Olympics style, what the Olympics should be.
Speaker 2: You know, I think this event would be really great
Speaker 2: if they just said, Hey, what we're going to do
Speaker 2: is we're going to take the top three ranked players
Speaker 2: from every country that's got three players in the top
Speaker 2: one thousand in the world rankings, and these these teams
Speaker 2: are going to compete in two days of stroke play
Speaker 2: where the top eight teams qualify for the match play
Speaker 2: component and its team match play with three players. Anything
Speaker 2: could happen in this format.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It would just be about getting into that round of
Speaker 2: eight or round of sixteen, whatever you think. And people
Speaker 2: will be like, oh, there aren't there aren't enough teams.
Speaker 2: There aren't enough teams. I think you could you could
Speaker 2: field twenty five to thirty teams off of that criteria
Speaker 2: at a minimum, and obviously you'd have your powerhouses. You
Speaker 2: have USA, England, Ireland, South Korea, Australia, South Africa would
Speaker 2: be you know, Spain would be a good team Italy
Speaker 2: would have a good team, like you'd have those traditional powers.
Speaker 2: But like, isn't crazy to think that Austria with Stepstraca,
Speaker 2: burn vs. Rigger and Mattia Schwab could pull an upset
Speaker 2: and get into the finals or something. It's not crazy.
Speaker 2: Stepstraca almost won the FedEx Cup. You know. It would
Speaker 2: be a tournament that would create like a March Madness
Speaker 2: type atmosphere because on a given day, in a single
Speaker 2: elimination knockout, USA isn't necessarily going to win. The one
Speaker 2: or two of those players could have a bad day,
Speaker 2: shoot seventy two, and they could get upset by a
Speaker 2: country like Chile or Belgium or you know, like Mexico
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, Then I think what what
Speaker 2: it would do is it would involve the entire tour,
Speaker 2: a which I think is a big problem with the
Speaker 2: President's Cup, as I said in the first part. But
Speaker 2: b it would also involve the entire world, which I
Speaker 2: think is what the goal of the event is if
Speaker 2: you tried to get past the money, is that this
Speaker 2: is a global event. You know, my favorite term grow
Speaker 2: the game. Let me tell you what would grow the
Speaker 2: game is if if Chile is watching Joaquin Neeman and
Speaker 2: Meto Pereira and I don't have who the next highest
Speaker 2: ranked Chile employee. It might be Hugo Leon. So those
Speaker 2: guys upset America. I mean, you're talking about like a
Speaker 2: type of Americal on ice situation, right, And it's not
Speaker 2: inconceivable that Meto Pereira and Joaquin Neeman go out and
Speaker 2: beat Justin Thomas and Scotti Scheffler on a given day. Right,
Speaker 2: So this is this would genuinely, I think, be a
Speaker 2: great tournament and give it a whole different identity, completely
Speaker 2: unique to the Ryder.
Speaker 1: Cup, to the President's Cup, to the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: It would be way different.
Speaker 1: Oh oh oh in contrast to the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can still call it the President's Cup.
Speaker 2: You could keep all the mouney. If you're the tour,
Speaker 2: you don't have to cut anybody in, and you create
Speaker 2: the event that the Olympics should have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is definitely what the Olympics should have been.
Speaker 1: By the way, and I'm not sure why it is
Speaker 1: and it doesn't make any sense, but an idea that's
Speaker 1: kind of based on that idea that you just laid
Speaker 1: out would be the Continent's Cup, and yeah, you'd have
Speaker 1: to rename the tournament, and maybe that wouldn't be the
Speaker 1: greatest thing in the world for the PGA Tour because
Speaker 1: it likes having those presidents, you know, or the prime
Speaker 1: ministers or wherever they are kind of be involved in
Speaker 1: the tournament in some capacity. But I don't think that
Speaker 1: the President's Cup relies on that anymore. You could turn
Speaker 1: it into the Continent's Cup and have teams from North America,
Speaker 1: South America, Australia, Europe, Asia and Africa, right, and Antarctica
Speaker 1: if they want to, If they want to field team
Speaker 1: out of the scientists down there.
Speaker 2: It would be great if that team played every year
Speaker 2: just shot like ye shot a hundred. Poor guys out
Speaker 2: there shooting hundreds.
Speaker 1: It would be It would be like the Olympics, where where,
Speaker 1: you know, like the swimmers from the countries that don't
Speaker 1: have super strong swim programs or are like jumping in
Speaker 1: the pool and barely making it at one hundred meters.
Speaker 1: But in any case, I like this idea of a
Speaker 1: Continence Cup because you know, it kind of levels the
Speaker 1: playing field a little bit, Like, yeah, the North American
Speaker 1: team would be really really strong, but if you had
Speaker 1: like a four or five person team, then Europe would
Speaker 1: have a super strong team, Asia would have a super
Speaker 1: strong team South America. I mean, go down the list.
Speaker 1: You would have a real competition there and you would
Speaker 1: have like a limited number of teams. I think that
Speaker 1: would be.
Speaker 2: That when do you have so when you condense the
Speaker 2: number of players on the team, you're going to have
Speaker 2: more variability. And that's where the you U dominates his depth.
Speaker 2: When you have a twelve person team, nobody can compete
Speaker 2: with the US with twelve people right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the US is eight through twelve players right now
Speaker 1: are just gonna absolutely wipe the floor with with most
Speaker 1: other with with most with a Team Europe and with
Speaker 1: Team International right now.
Speaker 2: But when you limit it to three or if you're
Speaker 2: doing continence, you could do five, like, that's where you
Speaker 2: get variability and it becomes a real competition. The other
Speaker 2: thing I think that it does is this there's this
Speaker 2: weird thing with the President's Cup where it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not the Ryder Cup and it's kind of the
Speaker 2: same team with America, and I think there's some fatigue
Speaker 2: there is that this is like the Ryder Cup Select
Speaker 2: team like this is like the Kreme de la crem.
Speaker 1: Right, differentiating this event more from the Ryder Cup and
Speaker 1: trying to lean into a new identity for it. I
Speaker 1: think is a great idea, you know, to me, out
Speaker 1: of the ideas that you laid out, involving women in
Speaker 1: the event would be the obvious one that I would
Speaker 1: be most enthusiastic about. But as you said, the reason
Speaker 1: this wouldn't happen right now is that the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: would not want to share the spoils with the LPGA Tour.
Speaker 1: Is that basically what it comes down to.
Speaker 2: I believe that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 1: Which sucks because the LPGA Tour is supposedly a strategic
Speaker 1: ally of the PGA Tour.
Speaker 2: And think about what it would do. This is an
Speaker 2: all boats rise situation, right, and I think it would
Speaker 2: create a more compelling event for the PGA Tour. You
Speaker 2: would have a better event without a doubt, absolutely, and
Speaker 2: b you'd greatly increase the popularity of the women's game tenfold.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that having been to
Speaker 2: women's tournaments and you know men's tournaments, is like the
Speaker 2: thing that jumps out to me immediately when I'm when
Speaker 2: I'm at a women's event, is just how much more
Speaker 2: friendly and how much more personal the players are. And
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that would happen when
Speaker 2: they're on the stage together is that the women's personalities
Speaker 2: and characters would really come to the forefront, and I
Speaker 2: think it would they would retain fans and viewers. And
Speaker 2: the more popular all of golf is, the better it
Speaker 2: is for the PGA Tour, whether or not they see
Speaker 2: it initially, but like the more popular women's golf is,
Speaker 2: the better it is for men's golf.
Speaker 1: And from the PGA tourist perspective, there are a couple
Speaker 1: of markets right now where the PGA Tour doesn't have
Speaker 1: nearly as big of a presence as it could have,
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking of South Korea and Japan, and guess
Speaker 1: where women's golf is really popular right now, South Korea
Speaker 1: and Japan. You would think that that would be kind
Speaker 1: of a motivational factor for the PGA Tour. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know how the finances would break down, but
Speaker 1: you would hope that something like this would be capable
Speaker 1: of happening, because it would be great. I'm just thinking
Speaker 1: of you know how fun, Like the mixed pairs would be, right, men,
Speaker 1: men and women pairs alternate shot, That would be so fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it would be even interesting down to
Speaker 2: like what what type of ball are they playing and why?
Speaker 2: You know, like there'd be all kinds of cool stuff
Speaker 2: like who's teeing off evens and odds? Like there's all
Speaker 2: kinds of strategy there, like what if one team goes
Speaker 2: even to one team goes odds. Just I mean that
Speaker 2: that format, you'd get the juxtaposition of styles, which I
Speaker 2: think is like the thing that's that makes golf really interesting.
Speaker 2: You know, on each tour it's always fascinating when a
Speaker 2: shorter hitter is playing with a longer hitter. It would
Speaker 2: be even more fascinating with men and women intermix playing
Speaker 2: against each other on teams, Like you would just see
Speaker 2: such different styles and and you know, there'd just be
Speaker 2: so much that you could build up going into these matches,
Speaker 2: and there'd be so much for the broadcast to chew
Speaker 2: on during the match, and it's just be so different
Speaker 2: than anything you have, right, And I think that's the
Speaker 2: big thing at the at the core of what plays
Speaker 2: the President's Cup is it's just not different, and this
Speaker 2: is an option for it to be way drastically different.
Speaker 2: The other the Continent Cup different, The idea of being
Speaker 2: what the Olympics should be would be way different. You know,
Speaker 2: all these offer them a opportunity to create something unique,
Speaker 2: and excitement comes when something's unique.
Speaker 1: All right, I think that's a good place to wrap up.
Speaker 2: Oh one other thing, God had one other idea. Given
Speaker 2: the tour's success with TPC Sawgrass and the players, how
Speaker 2: have they not built a President's Cup course like we
Speaker 2: see you know, whether or not you believe in matchplay
Speaker 2: courses and the idea of matchplay courses, you know, they're
Speaker 2: kind of like a little bit of a rage and
Speaker 2: golf course design, Like, why not build a stadium matchplay course?
Speaker 2: Even TPC Sagress would be a fascinating golf course to
Speaker 2: watch match play on. It would they would? I think
Speaker 2: people would play a lot differently than we see him
Speaker 2: play in the players.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The trick would be finding an international course
Speaker 1: that could host every kind of international home game. But also,
Speaker 1: you know, keep in mind the first two President's Cups
Speaker 1: and like four out of the first maybe six or
Speaker 1: seven President's Cups were held at one course Robert tren
Speaker 1: Jones Golf Club, which I think was chosen partly because
Speaker 1: it's close enough to Washington, d C. So that the
Speaker 1: presidents could make it out there and kind of be
Speaker 1: an honorary part of the festivities. But you know, there
Speaker 1: is precedent for the President's Cup kind of being held
Speaker 1: two years in a row one course. Now I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was that good for it to be
Speaker 1: held at Robert tren Jones Golf Club two years in
Speaker 1: a row, But if there were some kind of consistent
Speaker 1: venue for these events, whether it's in America or abroad,
Speaker 1: I think that would be really good. Now, the issue,
Speaker 1: Andy is who do you think the PGA Tour at
Speaker 1: this point would get to build this course? It would
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be Pete Dye, right, I mean, obviously Pete
Speaker 1: Dye has passed away, but it wouldn't be What I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying is that they got their own house deciety exactly.
Speaker 1: They would be like Steve Wentslough and in that crew.
Speaker 1: Looking at some of the work that they've done on
Speaker 1: the twelfth hole at TPC Sawgrass in the past few years,
Speaker 1: I'm not totally confident that they would execute this course
Speaker 1: that well, so that that might be an issue. If
Speaker 1: Pete Dye were still with us, and if the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour still were still relying on him for design services,
Speaker 1: or if there were somebody of similar talent and stature
Speaker 1: that the PGA Tour had a good relationship with, then
Speaker 1: this idea would be a bit more compelling. But I'm
Speaker 1: just not sure what PGA Tour architecture would produce for
Speaker 1: this at this point in the in the PGA Tour's existence.
Speaker 1: So that would be cool. In practice, you know, we
Speaker 1: might get like Liberty National type situation and that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be that fun.
Speaker 2: I think Medina Post renovation could be exciting.
Speaker 1: That would be amazing, but it's not owned by the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, so they wouldn't want to go there every
Speaker 1: single year. Would Medina want to hold it every every
Speaker 1: other year?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I don't, I don't maybe.
Speaker 1: Probably, I mean it will be super super cool. I
Speaker 1: mean it's.
Speaker 2: Uh, well, that's the other thing about if they did
Speaker 2: the Olympic style one, there's no reason they couldn't do
Speaker 2: it every year if they did, If they did the
Speaker 2: men's and women's one, I could see him doing it
Speaker 2: every year. Like you know, there are ways they could
Speaker 2: make more money from it. In the way you make
Speaker 2: more money from it is creating something that has a
Speaker 2: clearly different identity than the Ryder Cup. Then you can
Speaker 2: do it more frequently. Then you're not competing with the
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: Right well, And this logic that you're talking about creating
Speaker 1: a home for an event, something that is a is
Speaker 1: a big swing and it could pay off big time,
Speaker 1: or it could be a disaster. This was the exact
Speaker 1: kind of move that Dean Beeman made in the late
Speaker 1: seventies with TPC Sawgrass in the Players Championship. This is
Speaker 1: what the PGA Tour did then. But I don't think
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is in a place any longer where
Speaker 1: it's taking these big swings and taking these big chances.
Speaker 2: Seems like the Rory's taking a big swing for r He's.
Speaker 1: Taking a big swing. Four well, but just consider how
Speaker 1: the last year has gone with the PGA Tour that
Speaker 1: the organization has had every reason to take a big swing.
Speaker 1: If this was if there were any set of circumstances
Speaker 1: that would require some kind of huge risk to be
Speaker 1: taken by the PGA Tour, this would be it. But
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour really didn't do anything. Rory McElroy and
Speaker 1: Tiger Woods did something, and so are they going to
Speaker 1: reinvent the President's Cup? I don't think so. In the end,
Speaker 1: I think you probably agree with me about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll just continue you on the mediocrity path that
Speaker 2: has been on since its start.
Speaker 1: It'll kind of linger. But at least we'll get team
Speaker 1: match play. As I've said several times, I always look
Speaker 1: forward to team match play, So at least we will
Speaker 1: get a taste of that this week, and I hope
Speaker 1: it is a close match. It would be a real
Speaker 1: bummer if it were hugely lopsided and we got to
Speaker 1: Sunday singles and there was just no chance that would be.
Speaker 1: That would be a big blow and it would start
Speaker 1: a discussion about live and about the future of the event.
Speaker 2: If the US somehow somehow loses, then it'll just be
Speaker 2: you know, a year of this is a dire situation
Speaker 2: for the Ryder Cup. What went wrong at quil Hollow
Speaker 2: could haunt the Ryder Cup for decades.
Speaker 1: I swear to God, the US losing this President's Cup
Speaker 1: would be the best possible scenario. I really, really do
Speaker 1: hope the US loses. And that's not because I'm unpatriotic
Speaker 1: or something. I think it would just it would be
Speaker 1: by far the most interesting situation, all right. I think
Speaker 1: I think we've Unless there's anything else you wanted to get.
Speaker 2: Into, I got nothing else.
Speaker 1: We've covered a lot of territory, all right. So I
Speaker 1: hope everybody enjoys the President's Cup this this coming week.
Speaker 1: We'll see how it goes. Andy, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for your time. I'll talk to you soon. This episode
Speaker 1: of the Frida Egg Podcast was edited by Meg Atkins.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Meg. So one quick shout out to the
Speaker 1: Frida Egg pro shop. We would recommend that you go
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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and we'll see you again next week.