WEBVTT - John McEnroe & Patty Smyth 0:00:14.836 --> 0:00:29.276 Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and 0:00:29.436 --> 0:00:32.356 we're going on a series of double dates to find 0:00:32.396 --> 0:00:40.796 out what makes a marriage last. The great thing about 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:44.636 being with John McEnroe and Patti smithe there's no warm 0:00:44.676 --> 0:00:47.716 up time needed. You're in the middle of a conversation 0:00:47.796 --> 0:00:51.676 in a minute you start. They're both champs. He's a 0:00:51.676 --> 0:00:54.916 tennis legend, she's a rock and roll check and their 0:00:54.956 --> 0:00:58.556 personalities are as big as their careers. We capped it 0:00:58.636 --> 0:01:01.836 across town to their big, family friendly apartment on the 0:01:01.956 --> 0:01:05.676 Upper West Side of Manhattan, and while we were setting 0:01:05.756 --> 0:01:09.356 up the mics, they were already going at it. Got 0:01:09.356 --> 0:01:12.076 to stop wiggling because it's driving me crazy. That sound 0:01:12.116 --> 0:01:14.836 you're making on the chair. He can't barely moving. Now 0:01:14.916 --> 0:01:19.356 that this is him barely moving. Yeah, this is exactly 0:01:19.436 --> 0:01:21.916 I'm used to standing up and running. It was fun 0:01:21.956 --> 0:01:25.276 to see them banter and Patty sure is a match 0:01:25.356 --> 0:01:28.876 for him, And that was on the fall shelf did ask, 0:01:29.036 --> 0:01:31.076 but he was a little cocky back in the day, 0:01:31.116 --> 0:01:33.756 because is it possible, might have said no, that would 0:01:34.116 --> 0:01:36.956 say no to fall get at it. Lucky for us 0:01:37.076 --> 0:01:40.036 this time they said yes, So we settled into their 0:01:40.076 --> 0:01:43.036 comfy living room, just the four of us and their 0:01:43.116 --> 0:01:47.396 mischievous cat, Bobby. I kicked off our conversation by asking 0:01:47.436 --> 0:01:50.356 them how they kept up such a busy pace. I 0:01:50.356 --> 0:01:53.036 would say it was true for John, he likes to 0:01:53.076 --> 0:01:56.756 stay busy. But for good fifteen to twenty years, I 0:01:56.796 --> 0:01:59.796 was working, you know, taking care of our six kids. 0:02:00.396 --> 0:02:03.156 That was my main job, and John taking care of 0:02:03.236 --> 0:02:05.956 John too because I traveled with him, because he didn't 0:02:05.996 --> 0:02:08.076 like to be alone for long stretches of time. So 0:02:08.156 --> 0:02:11.476 sometimes I brought the sometimes I didn't, and I put 0:02:11.516 --> 0:02:14.116 out a Greatest Hits record. I wrote songs, I mean, 0:02:14.156 --> 0:02:16.196 I did some and then I actually, I guess for 0:02:16.276 --> 0:02:18.516 the last eight that's true. I guess for the eight 0:02:18.596 --> 0:02:21.596 or nine years, I've been touring more like in the summers. 0:02:22.076 --> 0:02:26.356 But I was mainly, you know, the stability at home 0:02:26.396 --> 0:02:29.156 for the kids. She was never with me during my 0:02:29.236 --> 0:02:32.836 main career. She's been with me after I stopped playing out. 0:02:32.916 --> 0:02:35.236 I would have had a heart attack. There's a transitional 0:02:35.356 --> 0:02:38.716 period where you're sort of not sure about what's going 0:02:38.756 --> 0:02:40.396 to happen and what you're going to do with the 0:02:40.436 --> 0:02:46.156 rest of your life, and so it was very fortunate 0:02:46.156 --> 0:02:49.356 that I was able to find Patty and she sort 0:02:49.396 --> 0:02:53.276 of let me do my thing in essence, which was basically, 0:02:53.876 --> 0:02:57.076 as it turned out, to sort of veer back towards tennis. 0:02:57.116 --> 0:03:02.516 You know, at first, I was having trouble coming to 0:03:02.596 --> 0:03:04.356 grips with what I was going to do in tennis, 0:03:04.356 --> 0:03:06.356 because at the end of your career, or at least me, 0:03:06.636 --> 0:03:08.236 I was certain, you don't want to have any part 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:11.196 of it. And so he was like thirty five and 0:03:11.356 --> 0:03:14.876 I was thirty seven, and he was playing these you know, 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:17.556 exhibitions and stuff. I'm getting a lot of money for them. 0:03:17.996 --> 0:03:20.796 But I wasn't really preparing that well for him, preparing 0:03:20.836 --> 0:03:23.996 at all. He wasn't taking it seriously. But I said 0:03:23.996 --> 0:03:27.036 to me, if you're going to play practice, and when 0:03:27.116 --> 0:03:30.236 he did that, he beat everybody After that, then he 0:03:30.356 --> 0:03:34.436 was number one on the seniors tours, taking it seriously, 0:03:34.796 --> 0:03:37.236 taking pride in what you're doing. You're going to do 0:03:37.356 --> 0:03:39.516 it at the top of Yeah. I mean, if he 0:03:39.596 --> 0:03:42.716 told me I'd be a commentator and I was going 0:03:42.756 --> 0:03:44.916 to play seniors tennis, that would be sort of like, 0:03:45.236 --> 0:03:47.756 shoot me now. But also you were kind of just 0:03:47.836 --> 0:03:50.276 had that attitude like he hated, the prayers he hated. 0:03:50.516 --> 0:03:52.636 I mean, it was all like the establishment, and that 0:03:52.716 --> 0:03:54.436 wasn't going to be him. I mean, that was part 0:03:54.476 --> 0:03:57.596 of your thing. But low and behold, he's like the 0:03:57.636 --> 0:04:00.676 greatest commentator that ever came down the pike, you know. 0:04:00.796 --> 0:04:02.836 And also right at the end of my career was 0:04:02.876 --> 0:04:05.676 the end of my first marriage, as it turned out, 0:04:05.716 --> 0:04:08.476 So that next year was all sort of trying to 0:04:08.796 --> 0:04:11.076 time figure out what the hell was going on and 0:04:11.116 --> 0:04:14.556 how this had happened, and that feeling of failure you 0:04:14.636 --> 0:04:18.396 have about a marriage and wanting the kids to be 0:04:18.676 --> 0:04:22.596 okay because they're very young when this happened. So then 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:25.796 I mean you're taking it day by day at that stage. 0:04:25.836 --> 0:04:28.556 So I actually changed, well it's a lot of change. 0:04:28.556 --> 0:04:31.556 So that was exactly why the last thing that I 0:04:31.596 --> 0:04:35.956 wanted was to get remarried. You know, the toughest thing 0:04:35.956 --> 0:04:39.036 about marriage is getting the divorce is getting out of it. 0:04:39.596 --> 0:04:41.396 And it took me a couple of years and it's 0:04:41.436 --> 0:04:45.196 just sort of horrific in a way, and then it 0:04:45.236 --> 0:04:47.436 feels like, Okay, I just want to go out with 0:04:47.596 --> 0:04:53.996 young girls that don't want anything. Basically, Well that's what 0:04:54.076 --> 0:04:56.436 I thought. Did that for a couple of years. How 0:04:56.476 --> 0:04:58.756 did you meet? We met the first time at a 0:04:58.756 --> 0:05:01.676 friend's Christmas party on Christmas Day. It was a setup, 0:05:01.676 --> 0:05:03.756 but they were smart enough not to tell me about 0:05:03.756 --> 0:05:06.036 the setup, or I wouldn't have come right because I 0:05:06.196 --> 0:05:09.076 really wasn't ready to be too embarrassed and it would 0:05:09.196 --> 0:05:12.396 be embarrassing. But he walked in. I always like to 0:05:12.396 --> 0:05:13.956 tell us where He walked in with like a kid 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:16.676 in each arm and one wrapped around his leg. So 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:19.036 it was pretty funny. I mean, you could barely walk 0:05:19.316 --> 0:05:22.916 for the weight of your kids, six to five and two? 0:05:23.156 --> 0:05:25.796 Come on, how are you? How can you resist that? So? 0:05:26.076 --> 0:05:29.356 Really was that your moom? You like to have babies 0:05:29.356 --> 0:05:31.716 in your arms? Whenever we walked into a room, he'd say, 0:05:31.756 --> 0:05:33.756 give me her and he'd want to. I mean, it 0:05:33.836 --> 0:05:37.196 was John's a little bit shy, So I think having 0:05:37.236 --> 0:05:40.756 a baby made you feel like it's a wonderful thing 0:05:40.796 --> 0:05:43.276 to have little kids in your arms. I mean, there's 0:05:43.316 --> 0:05:46.716 probably not It's almost nothing they can top that feeling. 0:05:47.076 --> 0:05:50.076 So I'm not going to say that it was was 0:05:50.276 --> 0:05:52.476 not my move or it was my I mean, it 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:54.956 just seemed like they were probably all nervous. You and 0:05:54.996 --> 0:05:57.996 the three kids. It seems like a natural thing to do, hopefully. 0:05:58.036 --> 0:05:59.876 I mean when you're just there and you're not I 0:05:59.916 --> 0:06:03.516 mean you're by just with them, right, Yeah, you're with 0:06:03.676 --> 0:06:06.396 a maybe a fair amount of people you may not know, 0:06:06.996 --> 0:06:09.476 including the person who I was sort of am my, 0:06:09.596 --> 0:06:12.276 I guess set up to me, and she sort of 0:06:12.556 --> 0:06:15.116 was avoiding me. Well. No, I sat and talked to 0:06:15.156 --> 0:06:17.036 him for a while, and then I liked him, and 0:06:17.036 --> 0:06:19.916 then I got nervous, and then I avoided him, and 0:06:20.356 --> 0:06:23.236 did you like her right away too? I thought that 0:06:23.276 --> 0:06:26.116 we should, you know, think seriously about going out, which 0:06:26.116 --> 0:06:27.596 which is why I said, Hey, I'm going to be 0:06:27.676 --> 0:06:31.276 here for the week. We should get together. I'm we'll 0:06:31.316 --> 0:06:33.876 fight about this. Don't even let us. Don't make us 0:06:33.876 --> 0:06:37.316 tell the story. Do not make us out because he's 0:06:37.356 --> 0:06:41.356 rewritten it's and it's all wrong. Maybe I don't remember it. Okay, 0:06:41.516 --> 0:06:45.596 I'm not doing anything for New Year's Eve. I'm not 0:06:45.716 --> 0:06:53.196 doing anything for New Year's Eve. I'm saying, hey, between 0:06:53.236 --> 0:06:56.956 the lars, you know, we both grew up thirteen fifteen 0:06:56.956 --> 0:06:59.836 minutes away from each other and Queens. Yeah, you go 0:06:59.876 --> 0:07:01.876 around the world and you wind up with a guy 0:07:01.916 --> 0:07:04.396 from Queens, which is what I think is you know, awesome. 0:07:04.996 --> 0:07:08.516 But I think the thing that happened for us, I 0:07:08.556 --> 0:07:12.236 mean I would speak for John. Somehow he saw something 0:07:12.716 --> 0:07:17.236 about us together and I felt very safe and really really, 0:07:17.276 --> 0:07:20.316 like I said, this weird familiar thing. I was in 0:07:20.476 --> 0:07:22.996 La where it's like I always said, like La is 0:07:23.036 --> 0:07:25.556 like the Vietcong. You know, you never know, you couldn't 0:07:25.556 --> 0:07:28.436 identify the enemy. I liked you. Who doesn't like you? 0:07:28.436 --> 0:07:31.876 You know, like because everybody's full of shit and flirting. 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:35.196 And then when I met John, that was someone I knew. 0:07:35.196 --> 0:07:37.876 He was a guy from New York. I knew him. 0:07:38.276 --> 0:07:40.476 He was very forthbright. All he talked about was his 0:07:40.556 --> 0:07:44.396 divorce and how crushed he was by it, and so 0:07:44.716 --> 0:07:47.236 that was all really endearing and great. And then when 0:07:47.276 --> 0:07:50.636 we went on that on that one date, and then 0:07:51.116 --> 0:07:53.916 he came over the second night and we were together 0:07:53.956 --> 0:07:56.156 from from then on after that second night on our 0:07:56.196 --> 0:07:59.556 second date, and I just was sort of still didn't 0:07:59.556 --> 0:08:03.156 believe in love, in monogamy, in marriage, but I had 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:05.756 some kind of faith in him, and so I thought, well, 0:08:05.756 --> 0:08:09.516 I'm going to go along with him. And I'm like, 0:08:09.596 --> 0:08:12.076 I call it stepping into the river of John. I 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:14.276 stepped into the river and I let him sweep me 0:08:14.436 --> 0:08:18.076 along with him until I caught up. I realized this 0:08:18.116 --> 0:08:22.476 opportunity to get this second chance that I wasn't sure 0:08:22.516 --> 0:08:26.236 I was going to be able to get, so I was. 0:08:26.356 --> 0:08:28.236 I'm proud of myself that I was able to make 0:08:28.276 --> 0:08:32.756 that choice, because at that time, when you're still just 0:08:32.836 --> 0:08:35.316 sort of just out of a divorce, it doesn't seem 0:08:35.356 --> 0:08:39.036 like the sensible thing to do necessarily to get back 0:08:39.036 --> 0:08:42.436 into a very serious relationship. But I didn't want to 0:08:42.436 --> 0:08:45.436 do it either. But then there was John saying, you know, 0:08:45.676 --> 0:08:47.956 like trying to get me to move back to New 0:08:48.036 --> 0:08:50.556 York right away, and he just knew to me. I 0:08:50.716 --> 0:08:54.036 was like, I got a brilliant idea. We gotta have 0:08:54.156 --> 0:08:58.076 a kid so that the other kids realize how committed 0:08:58.116 --> 0:09:00.396 we are and how much we love. Choice had that 0:09:00.476 --> 0:09:03.596 brilliant idea. It was always like, you know, that was 0:09:03.636 --> 0:09:06.316 his cure for everything. Have a kid right now, if 0:09:06.316 --> 0:09:09.836 I knock you up, you'll get healthier, get happier or whatever. 0:09:09.876 --> 0:09:11.596 That was your go to move. I think when you 0:09:11.716 --> 0:09:14.676 loved somebody or like them, you wanted them to have 0:09:14.756 --> 0:09:18.436 your baby, well that would almost seems bigger than getting married. No, 0:09:18.596 --> 0:09:20.276 it's true. So he was like, I want to have 0:09:20.316 --> 0:09:22.036 a kid, but I don't want to get married. So 0:09:22.196 --> 0:09:23.796 I was like, I didn't really want to get married. 0:09:23.836 --> 0:09:25.476 I was thirty seven. I didn't think I was going 0:09:25.516 --> 0:09:27.796 to get pregnant right away, but I did. How long 0:09:27.836 --> 0:09:29.716 did it take you to come to New York? Well, 0:09:29.716 --> 0:09:31.676 we came, I went. We saw each other all the time, 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:34.436 we came back and forth, and it was the next 0:09:34.516 --> 0:09:38.076 school year, nine months. Yeah, so I was already pregnant. 0:09:38.156 --> 0:09:41.156 But she moved in my place in Malibu. It was 0:09:41.276 --> 0:09:43.356 you know she I mean I was spending time with 0:09:43.396 --> 0:09:46.516 her in Tepega then maybe early on, and you were 0:09:46.556 --> 0:09:48.996 making me come to Malibu. So I was always leaving 0:09:49.076 --> 0:09:51.556 Ruby and so I was like, how about I moved 0:09:51.596 --> 0:09:54.196 down to the house in Malibu. But you know, he 0:09:54.316 --> 0:09:56.276 was like he's come a long way. He was like 0:09:56.356 --> 0:09:59.516 a little bit, you know, wanted it the way he 0:09:59.556 --> 0:10:02.156 wanted it. But I mean it's a pretty good It's 0:10:02.196 --> 0:10:05.516 not like the worst scenario. I'm you know, putting her 0:10:05.556 --> 0:10:10.476 into well down to Malibu could be worse, right, So, yeah, 0:10:10.476 --> 0:10:12.596 but I loved my house. I loved where I lived. 0:10:12.636 --> 0:10:14.316 I mean, it's not like I wanted to give all 0:10:14.356 --> 0:10:16.836 that up. I gave everything away. I mean it wasn't 0:10:16.876 --> 0:10:19.476 like no sacrifice for me. But it had a nice 0:10:19.476 --> 0:10:22.876 house in Malibu. Right, didn't say for my kid, But 0:10:23.156 --> 0:10:25.916 that was more trust Right. I just love talking to 0:10:25.916 --> 0:10:28.356 a couple. Yeah, I really did, really, just a little bit, 0:10:28.516 --> 0:10:30.956 because makes love my husband more, because I realized we're 0:10:30.956 --> 0:10:34.956 not as crazy as I exactly. John is just as 0:10:34.996 --> 0:10:38.516 scrappy as he was on the tennis court. But Patty 0:10:38.596 --> 0:10:41.876 holds her own with him, she sure does. Plus she 0:10:41.956 --> 0:10:46.316 has a magic superpower. Music must be the fact that 0:10:46.396 --> 0:10:50.076 Patty is a musician a singer, so but must have 0:10:50.156 --> 0:10:52.916 been part of the attraction. I mean, it's a great combination. 0:10:52.956 --> 0:10:56.076 A beautiful woman and a great singer. Then I didn't 0:10:56.076 --> 0:10:59.516 play any music or singing. She wasn't. I remember we 0:10:59.676 --> 0:11:02.996 early on. I was playing some music with my friends. 0:11:03.076 --> 0:11:06.356 I mean, admittedly compared to what she's used to badly, 0:11:06.476 --> 0:11:09.036 but I thought like, hey, come on up in jail, 0:11:09.916 --> 0:11:13.196 and she goes, I don't jam, And I'm like, you're saying, 0:11:13.636 --> 0:11:15.676 you know, why don't you jam? And it seemed like, 0:11:17.196 --> 0:11:19.676 at least in my mind, it seemed like she had 0:11:19.716 --> 0:11:21.836 lost a love of you know, what she was doing 0:11:21.916 --> 0:11:24.196 for a variety of reasons. This is a tough business. 0:11:24.236 --> 0:11:26.996 And Grenge came in and there was just you know whatever, 0:11:27.116 --> 0:11:30.996 you know the way that's illustrated and in music and etc. 0:11:31.956 --> 0:11:34.636 And so it seemed like she needed a little bit of, 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.676 you know, someone like myself who has a lot of 0:11:37.796 --> 0:11:42.796 energy that could get her back to maybe loving what 0:11:42.836 --> 0:11:46.236 she was doing more. And yeah, I needed somebody like you, 0:11:46.476 --> 0:11:50.196 I'm saying, to impregnate me and just keep me home 0:11:50.436 --> 0:11:52.796 taking care of the kids, because that's what you know. 0:11:52.836 --> 0:11:55.436 There was no like, you know, pushing me towards music. 0:11:56.156 --> 0:12:00.716 You were touring. I suggested that we we because I 0:12:00.796 --> 0:12:03.876 was actually playing more than she was. And that's which 0:12:04.116 --> 0:12:06.316 was when I was like getting pissed. And then I'm like, 0:12:06.356 --> 0:12:08.836 you know what, you need to come come home, like 0:12:08.876 --> 0:12:11.716 you can't like play a tennis tournament and then do 0:12:11.796 --> 0:12:14.476 a gig, like do your gigs around here. So she said, 0:12:14.516 --> 0:12:17.396 if anyone is going to play music, it's me. But 0:12:17.476 --> 0:12:19.796 I wouldn't it be amazing if we were, you know, 0:12:19.916 --> 0:12:23.316 I was in her band basically. So Patty said, yeah, 0:12:23.436 --> 0:12:26.876 we should play mixed doubles at Wimbledon. So I go, 0:12:27.116 --> 0:12:31.516 you don't play tennis, and she goes exactly, So that 0:12:31.676 --> 0:12:36.516 shut that down. We'll have more after a quick break. 0:12:47.276 --> 0:12:50.916 We're back to our conversation with John McEnroe and Patty 0:12:51.036 --> 0:12:54.916 Smythe and one thing we hadn't quite touched on yet 0:12:55.596 --> 0:12:58.676 was John's famous temper. It probably took me a minute 0:12:58.716 --> 0:13:01.636 to really hold my own. I probably let him push 0:13:01.676 --> 0:13:04.876 me around a little bit. Did you say, when you're made, 0:13:05.196 --> 0:13:09.836 don't even I'm not allowed to any where. Patty won't 0:13:09.916 --> 0:13:12.276 let me use a phrase. They don't give a damn 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:14.276 about how I play now. They just want me to yell. 0:13:14.436 --> 0:13:17.276 You can't be serious. But there's a lot of owner thing, 0:13:17.316 --> 0:13:20.156 as you said, can't you just resort to? Very ironically 0:13:20.716 --> 0:13:24.716 the thing that I said once, my dad, God rest 0:13:24.796 --> 0:13:27.636 his soul, said, listen, you don't need to do this, 0:13:27.716 --> 0:13:30.876 you know, go off on the umpires. You know you're 0:13:30.916 --> 0:13:33.076 better than them. Just play. But he'd say it like, 0:13:33.116 --> 0:13:36.236 you don't need to do this, you're better than them. 0:13:38.156 --> 0:13:41.156 But then he go, but if you do do it, 0:13:41.356 --> 0:13:43.156 because he's he was a lawyer and he was my 0:13:43.196 --> 0:13:46.396 manager at the time, he goes, don't curse, And who 0:13:46.436 --> 0:13:49.076 else said that? To you me like Patty would say 0:13:49.076 --> 0:13:51.916 it later because I I lost control. It's like being 0:13:51.956 --> 0:13:55.596 a say what you want, but don't drop. So that 0:13:55.796 --> 0:13:58.516 was me not cursing and said I'm going fuck you, 0:13:58.436 --> 0:14:01.556 you stupid, you know, which is what I wanted to say. 0:14:04.076 --> 0:14:06.876 I grew up in a loud, loud dinner table. Let's 0:14:06.876 --> 0:14:09.916 just say that my parents were together for three years, 0:14:10.556 --> 0:14:14.716 two younger brothers. It was living in Queen's living in 0:14:14.716 --> 0:14:17.476 New York. I just seemed like everywhere you turned it 0:14:17.516 --> 0:14:20.636 was very loud. So loud seemed normal. You know. When 0:14:20.636 --> 0:14:23.876 I went to London the first time in nineteen seventy seven, 0:14:23.916 --> 0:14:26.796 which is when I made the semis of Wimbledon, I 0:14:26.876 --> 0:14:29.716 was shocked at how polite they were and how quiet 0:14:29.796 --> 0:14:32.716 everything was, and you have to act as I'm like, 0:14:32.756 --> 0:14:35.716 what is with these people? I thought they were weird. 0:14:36.356 --> 0:14:39.956 I've always had this theory about you because I'm married 0:14:39.956 --> 0:14:42.076 to a man who seems to have the same trait. 0:14:42.756 --> 0:14:46.596 Phil does not take criticism well ever since we were married. 0:14:46.716 --> 0:14:48.476 No matter what I would say to him, he would 0:14:48.476 --> 0:14:51.196 say he's had a criticism. That really just drove me mad. 0:14:51.716 --> 0:14:54.756 He had a very critical mother. She didn't bother me 0:14:54.796 --> 0:14:57.076 that much. But it did bother me that she criticized 0:14:57.196 --> 0:14:59.836 him so much. The first time she walked into our house, 0:14:59.836 --> 0:15:03.916 either beautiful ornate mirror that had all these animal faces 0:15:03.916 --> 0:15:05.916 on it, she walked in and she said, oh, so 0:15:06.076 --> 0:15:11.756 Halloween house. You know. She just couldn't help Irish Catholic, Yeah, Irish, 0:15:12.636 --> 0:15:16.996 he's Irish. I'd say, I'm tired. She said, we're all tired, 0:15:17.876 --> 0:15:23.396 you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was wondering would you 0:15:23.436 --> 0:15:27.756 have a critical mother or father? I would say that 0:15:27.876 --> 0:15:32.956 my parents were expected big things. I mean they expected 0:15:32.996 --> 0:15:36.916 me to be very good at school. I guess they 0:15:36.956 --> 0:15:39.476 said that I was a perfectionist without them having to 0:15:39.516 --> 0:15:43.076 push him to be one. I do remember being very 0:15:43.116 --> 0:15:48.236 competitive and anxious, kind of driven to remember that, driven 0:15:48.556 --> 0:15:51.996 and pushed, you know, not nearly as bad as other 0:15:52.036 --> 0:15:55.356 tennis parents, but I was definitely pushed. It seemed like 0:15:55.796 --> 0:15:58.916 in retrospect they were a perfectionist. Though his parents they 0:15:58.916 --> 0:16:02.196 weren't critical because his father worked all day, went to 0:16:02.316 --> 0:16:05.076 law school at night, and came home. Was he second 0:16:05.116 --> 0:16:07.876 or third in his class? He was second? Why my 0:16:07.916 --> 0:16:14.316 mom would say, why wouldn't you first? I mean that 0:16:14.436 --> 0:16:17.196 makes you a perfectionist. Yeah, a lot of this stuff 0:16:17.716 --> 0:16:20.156 makes you who you are, so that when you become 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:23.156 a husband and become a partner to somebody, I mean 0:16:23.476 --> 0:16:25.916 they bickered all the time, they were like, but they 0:16:25.996 --> 0:16:30.036 loved each other, right, I mean, obviously the key to 0:16:30.196 --> 0:16:33.996 success in any marriage is you have to compromise and 0:16:34.516 --> 0:16:37.676 you have to trust each other and also hopefully have 0:16:37.716 --> 0:16:42.036 a lot of sex. Is it that would be the thrick? Yeah, 0:16:42.076 --> 0:16:45.436 that's it. When did you first get that smart? Probably 0:16:45.476 --> 0:16:48.836 not early enough in the first marriage, let's put it 0:16:48.876 --> 0:16:51.716 that way. Um, they should have anything to do with 0:16:51.756 --> 0:16:56.836 the person and the person obviously. I mean it's just 0:16:56.956 --> 0:17:00.516 your three your formula, and no matter who it was, 0:17:00.836 --> 0:17:03.396 it's like, my god, that's not what I said. But 0:17:03.556 --> 0:17:09.316 that's okay. But you know, I sort of if you 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:11.956 have to ask so then so, so, how do you fight? 0:17:13.356 --> 0:17:16.756 That's screaming and yelling sometimes? How I you know, as 0:17:16.796 --> 0:17:20.836 I look at you too, I see you guys has 0:17:21.676 --> 0:17:26.156 been raising your voice. But somehow none of your loud 0:17:26.316 --> 0:17:31.636 arguments are lethal. I don't think you take any crap 0:17:32.516 --> 0:17:36.476 I'm talking about. I found it somewhat amusing to me 0:17:36.756 --> 0:17:40.876 that I'd be the one overall, which we said earlier 0:17:40.916 --> 0:17:44.076 that I would be more like Jesus calmed down. Yeah, 0:17:45.876 --> 0:17:48.116 but we're not lethal to each other. I think there's 0:17:48.156 --> 0:17:51.196 a line. I do believe there are things you can't say, 0:17:51.236 --> 0:17:54.316 Like there have been sometimes maybe where we've said things, 0:17:55.156 --> 0:17:57.276 you know, where we didn't mean it, and maybe we 0:17:57.356 --> 0:17:59.356 crossed a line. Well, then go ahead and you know, 0:17:59.476 --> 0:18:02.356 get a group or whatever you know, or like you know, 0:18:02.876 --> 0:18:06.636 you said that, Yeah, I probably said that to him. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:09.796 that's sort of the wibblton of all that's I mean, 0:18:09.796 --> 0:18:12.276 we'll know. There's way worse than that. I mean, I 0:18:12.316 --> 0:18:15.556 think have you over said the D word divorce? I 0:18:16.356 --> 0:18:18.716 don't under said that word. I mean there's been times 0:18:18.756 --> 0:18:22.996 where no, we haven't said that. The thing that he 0:18:23.036 --> 0:18:25.196 has said to me our whole life together is don't 0:18:25.236 --> 0:18:27.756 give up on me. I'm a work in progress. Don't 0:18:27.756 --> 0:18:30.396 give up on me. And then I started saying to him, 0:18:30.476 --> 0:18:32.796 don't give up on me. You know, I'm a work 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:35.676 in progress too, because you know, I grew up with 0:18:35.756 --> 0:18:38.516 only women. I never thought I would be married. I 0:18:38.556 --> 0:18:40.876 had no idea how to be a couple, and it's 0:18:40.876 --> 0:18:43.516 been a learning curve for me. I was so independent, 0:18:44.116 --> 0:18:47.956 and he was, you know, wanted us to be like this, 0:18:48.036 --> 0:18:49.676 and I was like, you know, it took me a 0:18:49.716 --> 0:18:53.236 long time to do that. Someone said a second marriage 0:18:53.316 --> 0:18:58.076 is a triumph of hope over experience. And the biggest 0:18:58.116 --> 0:19:00.956 thing that Patty did for me basically was allowed me 0:19:01.036 --> 0:19:04.916 to be me. He needs a best friend and a 0:19:04.996 --> 0:19:09.116 consigliari and a wife and a lover and all those things. 0:19:08.916 --> 0:19:12.556 That's what makes him thrive and be a better person. 0:19:12.756 --> 0:19:15.956 John has the best moral compass. And what's great about 0:19:16.076 --> 0:19:19.516 people assuming that he's this like hothead is that they 0:19:19.716 --> 0:19:23.916 continually underestimate how smart he is. Oh, what a nice 0:19:23.956 --> 0:19:29.556 thing to say. Yeah, is there anything about yourself, either 0:19:29.596 --> 0:19:32.956 one of you that you consciously changed to accommodate the 0:19:32.996 --> 0:19:37.356 other one. For years, it was like the idea of 0:19:37.396 --> 0:19:40.596 me taking a girl's trip or traveling or going away 0:19:40.836 --> 0:19:42.916 on my own was like out of the question. I mean, 0:19:43.036 --> 0:19:45.596 John just could. He didn't want me to do it. 0:19:45.836 --> 0:19:47.876 He would get really angry at me if I did it, 0:19:48.116 --> 0:19:50.436 because he traveled and he thought I should be with 0:19:50.516 --> 0:19:53.196 him and I should go away when he went away, 0:19:53.236 --> 0:19:56.436 But then my kids would be alone. And so finally, 0:19:56.556 --> 0:20:01.756 over the years now it's dawned on him that my happiness, 0:20:01.796 --> 0:20:04.436 you know, these things are end of my happiness. Yeah, 0:20:04.476 --> 0:20:07.236 it does matter. It's not like like, you know, he 0:20:07.276 --> 0:20:09.996 really did think that I should just be happy with him. 0:20:10.076 --> 0:20:12.396 All my happiness should be with him, And a lot 0:20:12.436 --> 0:20:14.756 of my happiness is with him, but I get happiness 0:20:14.836 --> 0:20:18.236 from other things like my girlfriends and going on traveling 0:20:18.276 --> 0:20:20.916 to places that he wouldn't want to go to, and 0:20:20.996 --> 0:20:26.516 also music. What did you change your accommodate John virtually 0:20:26.596 --> 0:20:29.916 giving up her career, that's what she accommodated. I mean, 0:20:29.956 --> 0:20:32.676 that's the biggest thing by far. Now she was the 0:20:32.756 --> 0:20:36.236 bit disillusion but I don't think she envisioned that it 0:20:36.316 --> 0:20:39.316 would lead to twenty years, you know, twenty years later 0:20:39.356 --> 0:20:43.116 where you're still like, Okay, I've gone through batches of 0:20:43.156 --> 0:20:46.876 song did this? To get over that hump requires an 0:20:46.876 --> 0:20:49.596 incredible commitment that you know, because you have to not 0:20:49.676 --> 0:20:51.476 only do the record, but you got to set up 0:20:51.916 --> 0:20:53.476 how it's going to be. I mean, there's so many 0:20:53.516 --> 0:20:55.796 things to lose your place in line. You lose your 0:20:55.796 --> 0:20:59.636 place in line, well, that's in essence what you are, 0:20:59.716 --> 0:21:02.036 and then it's you. It becomes more and more of 0:21:02.036 --> 0:21:05.476 an uphill battle. And the weird thing is is being 0:21:05.516 --> 0:21:10.556 a woman and being married to John. People assume that 0:21:10.636 --> 0:21:13.196 I don't want to work. They would never say that 0:21:13.276 --> 0:21:16.116 to a guy. No, never, no, say I was like 0:21:16.156 --> 0:21:18.676 some heiress. They would never ever say why are you 0:21:18.716 --> 0:21:21.156 still playing tennis? Or why are you a commentator? I 0:21:21.156 --> 0:21:22.956 know you have to go want to ask one did 0:21:22.956 --> 0:21:25.316 we clear up? Like when you have a fight, who 0:21:25.476 --> 0:21:28.196 makes it okay? Do you both do that? Well, we 0:21:28.316 --> 0:21:30.676 both do that, but you're better at it. I think 0:21:30.716 --> 0:21:33.556 I'm a little better at sort of trying to diffuse 0:21:33.596 --> 0:21:35.916 it at this point. I think ultimately I've had to 0:21:35.996 --> 0:21:40.156 take the lead in that that's amazing. Well, some of 0:21:40.196 --> 0:21:42.876 it may be that. Yeah, so I guess that's a 0:21:42.876 --> 0:21:47.196 good quality change that I've made. Because I'm pretty stubborn 0:21:48.436 --> 0:21:52.036 and sort of get and me too, it's hard for 0:21:52.036 --> 0:21:55.076 me to say I'm sorry, so and believe that even 0:21:55.236 --> 0:21:58.076 you know that it doesn't matter if you're right. I 0:21:58.116 --> 0:22:00.636 think to myself, I'm eighty percent right. It's still like 0:22:00.636 --> 0:22:04.236 it so wide. I mean, ultimately, it's a hollow victory. 0:22:04.276 --> 0:22:08.036 So that part was took me a long time to feel. 0:22:08.076 --> 0:22:11.196 Like Jesus, if you look at it in what I 0:22:11.236 --> 0:22:13.036