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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and

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Speaker 1: we're going on a series of double dates to find

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Speaker 1: out what makes a marriage last. The great thing about

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Speaker 1: being with John McEnroe and Patti smithe there's no warm

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Speaker 1: up time needed. You're in the middle of a conversation

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Speaker 1: in a minute you start. They're both champs. He's a

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Speaker 1: tennis legend, she's a rock and roll check and their

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Speaker 1: personalities are as big as their careers. We capped it

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Speaker 1: across town to their big, family friendly apartment on the

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Speaker 1: Upper West Side of Manhattan, and while we were setting

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Speaker 1: up the mics, they were already going at it. Got

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Speaker 1: to stop wiggling because it's driving me crazy. That sound

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Speaker 1: you're making on the chair. He can't barely moving. Now

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Speaker 1: that this is him barely moving. Yeah, this is exactly

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Speaker 1: I'm used to standing up and running. It was fun

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Speaker 1: to see them banter and Patty sure is a match

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Speaker 1: for him, And that was on the fall shelf did ask,

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Speaker 1: but he was a little cocky back in the day,

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Speaker 1: because is it possible, might have said no, that would

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Speaker 1: say no to fall get at it. Lucky for us

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Speaker 1: this time they said yes, So we settled into their

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Speaker 1: comfy living room, just the four of us and their

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Speaker 1: mischievous cat, Bobby. I kicked off our conversation by asking

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Speaker 1: them how they kept up such a busy pace. I

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Speaker 1: would say it was true for John, he likes to

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Speaker 1: stay busy. But for good fifteen to twenty years, I

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Speaker 1: was working, you know, taking care of our six kids.

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Speaker 1: That was my main job, and John taking care of

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Speaker 1: John too because I traveled with him, because he didn't

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Speaker 1: like to be alone for long stretches of time. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes I brought the sometimes I didn't, and I put

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Speaker 1: out a Greatest Hits record. I wrote songs, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I did some and then I actually, I guess for

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Speaker 1: the last eight that's true. I guess for the eight

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Speaker 1: or nine years, I've been touring more like in the summers.

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Speaker 1: But I was mainly, you know, the stability at home

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Speaker 1: for the kids. She was never with me during my

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Speaker 1: main career. She's been with me after I stopped playing out.

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Speaker 1: I would have had a heart attack. There's a transitional

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Speaker 1: period where you're sort of not sure about what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen and what you're going to do with the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life, and so it was very fortunate

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Speaker 1: that I was able to find Patty and she sort

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Speaker 1: of let me do my thing in essence, which was basically,

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Speaker 1: as it turned out, to sort of veer back towards tennis.

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Speaker 1: You know, at first, I was having trouble coming to

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Speaker 1: grips with what I was going to do in tennis,

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Speaker 1: because at the end of your career, or at least me,

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Speaker 1: I was certain, you don't want to have any part

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Speaker 1: of it. And so he was like thirty five and

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Speaker 1: I was thirty seven, and he was playing these you know,

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Speaker 1: exhibitions and stuff. I'm getting a lot of money for them.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't really preparing that well for him, preparing

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Speaker 1: at all. He wasn't taking it seriously. But I said

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Speaker 1: to me, if you're going to play practice, and when

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Speaker 1: he did that, he beat everybody After that, then he

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Speaker 1: was number one on the seniors tours, taking it seriously,

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Speaker 1: taking pride in what you're doing. You're going to do

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Speaker 1: it at the top of Yeah. I mean, if he

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Speaker 1: told me I'd be a commentator and I was going

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Speaker 1: to play seniors tennis, that would be sort of like,

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Speaker 1: shoot me now. But also you were kind of just

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Speaker 1: had that attitude like he hated, the prayers he hated.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was all like the establishment, and that

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to be him. I mean, that was part

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Speaker 1: of your thing. But low and behold, he's like the

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Speaker 1: greatest commentator that ever came down the pike, you know.

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Speaker 1: And also right at the end of my career was

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Speaker 1: the end of my first marriage, as it turned out,

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Speaker 1: So that next year was all sort of trying to

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Speaker 1: time figure out what the hell was going on and

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Speaker 1: how this had happened, and that feeling of failure you

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Speaker 1: have about a marriage and wanting the kids to be

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Speaker 1: okay because they're very young when this happened. So then

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Speaker 1: I mean you're taking it day by day at that stage.

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Speaker 1: So I actually changed, well it's a lot of change.

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Speaker 1: So that was exactly why the last thing that I

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Speaker 1: wanted was to get remarried. You know, the toughest thing

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Speaker 1: about marriage is getting the divorce is getting out of it.

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Speaker 1: And it took me a couple of years and it's

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Speaker 1: just sort of horrific in a way, and then it

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Speaker 1: feels like, Okay, I just want to go out with

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Speaker 1: young girls that don't want anything. Basically, Well that's what

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Speaker 1: I thought. Did that for a couple of years. How

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Speaker 1: did you meet? We met the first time at a

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Speaker 1: friend's Christmas party on Christmas Day. It was a setup,

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Speaker 1: but they were smart enough not to tell me about

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Speaker 1: the setup, or I wouldn't have come right because I

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Speaker 1: really wasn't ready to be too embarrassed and it would

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Speaker 1: be embarrassing. But he walked in. I always like to

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Speaker 1: tell us where He walked in with like a kid

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Speaker 1: in each arm and one wrapped around his leg. So

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Speaker 1: it was pretty funny. I mean, you could barely walk

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Speaker 1: for the weight of your kids, six to five and two?

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Speaker 1: Come on, how are you? How can you resist that? So?

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Speaker 1: Really was that your moom? You like to have babies

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Speaker 1: in your arms? Whenever we walked into a room, he'd say,

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Speaker 1: give me her and he'd want to. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was John's a little bit shy, So I think having

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Speaker 1: a baby made you feel like it's a wonderful thing

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Speaker 1: to have little kids in your arms. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: probably not It's almost nothing they can top that feeling.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not going to say that it was was

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Speaker 1: not my move or it was my I mean, it

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Speaker 1: just seemed like they were probably all nervous. You and

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Speaker 1: the three kids. It seems like a natural thing to do, hopefully.

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Speaker 1: I mean when you're just there and you're not I

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Speaker 1: mean you're by just with them, right, Yeah, you're with

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Speaker 1: a maybe a fair amount of people you may not know,

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Speaker 1: including the person who I was sort of am my,

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Speaker 1: I guess set up to me, and she sort of

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Speaker 1: was avoiding me. Well. No, I sat and talked to

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Speaker 1: him for a while, and then I liked him, and

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Speaker 1: then I got nervous, and then I avoided him, and

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Speaker 1: did you like her right away too? I thought that

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Speaker 1: we should, you know, think seriously about going out, which

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Speaker 1: which is why I said, Hey, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: here for the week. We should get together. I'm we'll

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Speaker 1: fight about this. Don't even let us. Don't make us

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Speaker 1: tell the story. Do not make us out because he's

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Speaker 1: rewritten it's and it's all wrong. Maybe I don't remember it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything for New Year's Eve. I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing anything for New Year's Eve. I'm saying, hey, between

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Speaker 1: the lars, you know, we both grew up thirteen fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes away from each other and Queens. Yeah, you go

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Speaker 1: around the world and you wind up with a guy

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Speaker 1: from Queens, which is what I think is you know, awesome.

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Speaker 1: But I think the thing that happened for us, I

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Speaker 1: mean I would speak for John. Somehow he saw something

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Speaker 1: about us together and I felt very safe and really really,

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Speaker 1: like I said, this weird familiar thing. I was in

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Speaker 1: La where it's like I always said, like La is

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Speaker 1: like the Vietcong. You know, you never know, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: identify the enemy. I liked you. Who doesn't like you?

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Speaker 1: You know, like because everybody's full of shit and flirting.

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Speaker 1: And then when I met John, that was someone I knew.

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Speaker 1: He was a guy from New York. I knew him.

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Speaker 1: He was very forthbright. All he talked about was his

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Speaker 1: divorce and how crushed he was by it, and so

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Speaker 1: that was all really endearing and great. And then when

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Speaker 1: we went on that on that one date, and then

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Speaker 1: he came over the second night and we were together

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Speaker 1: from from then on after that second night on our

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Speaker 1: second date, and I just was sort of still didn't

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Speaker 1: believe in love, in monogamy, in marriage, but I had

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Speaker 1: some kind of faith in him, and so I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go along with him. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I call it stepping into the river of John. I

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Speaker 1: stepped into the river and I let him sweep me

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Speaker 1: along with him until I caught up. I realized this

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Speaker 1: opportunity to get this second chance that I wasn't sure

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Speaker 1: I was going to be able to get, so I was.

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Speaker 1: I'm proud of myself that I was able to make

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Speaker 1: that choice, because at that time, when you're still just

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Speaker 1: sort of just out of a divorce, it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: like the sensible thing to do necessarily to get back

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Speaker 1: into a very serious relationship. But I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: do it either. But then there was John saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: like trying to get me to move back to New

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Speaker 1: York right away, and he just knew to me. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I got a brilliant idea. We gotta have

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Speaker 1: a kid so that the other kids realize how committed

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Speaker 1: we are and how much we love. Choice had that

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Speaker 1: brilliant idea. It was always like, you know, that was

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Speaker 1: his cure for everything. Have a kid right now, if

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Speaker 1: I knock you up, you'll get healthier, get happier or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That was your go to move. I think when you

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Speaker 1: loved somebody or like them, you wanted them to have

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Speaker 1: your baby, well that would almost seems bigger than getting married. No,

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Speaker 1: it's true. So he was like, I want to have

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Speaker 1: a kid, but I don't want to get married. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't really want to get married.

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Speaker 1: I was thirty seven. I didn't think I was going

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Speaker 1: to get pregnant right away, but I did. How long

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Speaker 1: did it take you to come to New York? Well,

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Speaker 1: we came, I went. We saw each other all the time,

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Speaker 1: we came back and forth, and it was the next

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Speaker 1: school year, nine months. Yeah, so I was already pregnant.

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Speaker 1: But she moved in my place in Malibu. It was

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Speaker 1: you know she I mean I was spending time with

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Speaker 1: her in Tepega then maybe early on, and you were

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Speaker 1: making me come to Malibu. So I was always leaving

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Speaker 1: Ruby and so I was like, how about I moved

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Speaker 1: down to the house in Malibu. But you know, he

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Speaker 1: was like he's come a long way. He was like

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Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, wanted it the way he

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Speaker 1: wanted it. But I mean it's a pretty good It's

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Speaker 1: not like the worst scenario. I'm you know, putting her

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Speaker 1: into well down to Malibu could be worse, right, So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I loved my house. I loved where I lived.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like I wanted to give all

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Speaker 1: that up. I gave everything away. I mean it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like no sacrifice for me. But it had a nice

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Speaker 1: house in Malibu. Right, didn't say for my kid, But

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Speaker 1: that was more trust Right. I just love talking to

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Speaker 1: a couple. Yeah, I really did, really, just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: because makes love my husband more, because I realized we're

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Speaker 1: not as crazy as I exactly. John is just as

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Speaker 1: scrappy as he was on the tennis court. But Patty

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Speaker 1: holds her own with him, she sure does. Plus she

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Speaker 1: has a magic superpower. Music must be the fact that

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Speaker 1: Patty is a musician a singer, so but must have

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Speaker 1: been part of the attraction. I mean, it's a great combination.

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Speaker 1: A beautiful woman and a great singer. Then I didn't

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Speaker 1: play any music or singing. She wasn't. I remember we

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Speaker 1: early on. I was playing some music with my friends.

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Speaker 1: I mean, admittedly compared to what she's used to badly,

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Speaker 1: but I thought like, hey, come on up in jail,

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Speaker 1: and she goes, I don't jam, And I'm like, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, why don't you jam? And it seemed like,

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Speaker 1: at least in my mind, it seemed like she had

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Speaker 1: lost a love of you know, what she was doing

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Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. This is a tough business.

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Speaker 1: And Grenge came in and there was just you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know the way that's illustrated and in music and etc.

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Speaker 1: And so it seemed like she needed a little bit of,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone like myself who has a lot of

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Speaker 1: energy that could get her back to maybe loving what

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Speaker 1: she was doing more. And yeah, I needed somebody like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, to impregnate me and just keep me home

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Speaker 1: taking care of the kids, because that's what you know.

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Speaker 1: There was no like, you know, pushing me towards music.

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Speaker 1: You were touring. I suggested that we we because I

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Speaker 1: was actually playing more than she was. And that's which

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Speaker 1: was when I was like getting pissed. And then I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you need to come come home, like

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Speaker 1: you can't like play a tennis tournament and then do

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Speaker 1: a gig, like do your gigs around here. So she said,

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Speaker 1: if anyone is going to play music, it's me. But

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't it be amazing if we were, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was in her band basically. So Patty said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we should play mixed doubles at Wimbledon. So I go,

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Speaker 1: you don't play tennis, and she goes exactly, So that

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Speaker 1: shut that down. We'll have more after a quick break.

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Speaker 1: We're back to our conversation with John McEnroe and Patty

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Speaker 1: Smythe and one thing we hadn't quite touched on yet

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Speaker 1: was John's famous temper. It probably took me a minute

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Speaker 1: to really hold my own. I probably let him push

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Speaker 1: me around a little bit. Did you say, when you're made,

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Speaker 1: don't even I'm not allowed to any where. Patty won't

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Speaker 1: let me use a phrase. They don't give a damn

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Speaker 1: about how I play now. They just want me to yell.

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Speaker 1: You can't be serious. But there's a lot of owner thing,

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Speaker 1: as you said, can't you just resort to? Very ironically

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Speaker 1: the thing that I said once, my dad, God rest

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Speaker 1: his soul, said, listen, you don't need to do this,

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Speaker 1: you know, go off on the umpires. You know you're

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Speaker 1: better than them. Just play. But he'd say it like,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to do this, you're better than them.

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Speaker 1: But then he go, but if you do do it,

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Speaker 1: because he's he was a lawyer and he was my

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Speaker 1: manager at the time, he goes, don't curse, And who

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Speaker 1: else said that? To you me like Patty would say

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Speaker 1: it later because I I lost control. It's like being

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Speaker 1: a say what you want, but don't drop. So that

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Speaker 1: was me not cursing and said I'm going fuck you,

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Speaker 1: you stupid, you know, which is what I wanted to say.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a loud, loud dinner table. Let's

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Speaker 1: just say that my parents were together for three years,

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Speaker 1: two younger brothers. It was living in Queen's living in

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Speaker 1: New York. I just seemed like everywhere you turned it

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Speaker 1: was very loud. So loud seemed normal. You know. When

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Speaker 1: I went to London the first time in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: which is when I made the semis of Wimbledon, I

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Speaker 1: was shocked at how polite they were and how quiet

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Speaker 1: everything was, and you have to act as I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what is with these people? I thought they were weird.

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Speaker 1: I've always had this theory about you because I'm married

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Speaker 1: to a man who seems to have the same trait.

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Speaker 1: Phil does not take criticism well ever since we were married.

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Speaker 1: No matter what I would say to him, he would

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Speaker 1: say he's had a criticism. That really just drove me mad.

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Speaker 1: He had a very critical mother. She didn't bother me

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Speaker 1: that much. But it did bother me that she criticized

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Speaker 1: him so much. The first time she walked into our house,

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Speaker 1: either beautiful ornate mirror that had all these animal faces

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Speaker 1: on it, she walked in and she said, oh, so

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Speaker 1: Halloween house. You know. She just couldn't help Irish Catholic, Yeah, Irish,

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Speaker 1: he's Irish. I'd say, I'm tired. She said, we're all tired,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was wondering would you

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Speaker 1: have a critical mother or father? I would say that

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Speaker 1: my parents were expected big things. I mean they expected

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Speaker 1: me to be very good at school. I guess they

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Speaker 1: said that I was a perfectionist without them having to

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Speaker 1: push him to be one. I do remember being very

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Speaker 1: competitive and anxious, kind of driven to remember that, driven

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Speaker 1: and pushed, you know, not nearly as bad as other

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Speaker 1: tennis parents, but I was definitely pushed. It seemed like

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Speaker 1: in retrospect they were a perfectionist. Though his parents they

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Speaker 1: weren't critical because his father worked all day, went to

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Speaker 1: law school at night, and came home. Was he second

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Speaker 1: or third in his class? He was second? Why my

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Speaker 1: mom would say, why wouldn't you first? I mean that

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Speaker 1: makes you a perfectionist. Yeah, a lot of this stuff

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Speaker 1: makes you who you are, so that when you become

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Speaker 1: a husband and become a partner to somebody, I mean

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Speaker 1: they bickered all the time, they were like, but they

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Speaker 1: loved each other, right, I mean, obviously the key to

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Speaker 1: success in any marriage is you have to compromise and

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Speaker 1: you have to trust each other and also hopefully have

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Speaker 1: a lot of sex. Is it that would be the thrick? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's it. When did you first get that smart? Probably

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Speaker 1: not early enough in the first marriage, let's put it

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Speaker 1: that way. Um, they should have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: the person and the person obviously. I mean it's just

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Speaker 1: your three your formula, and no matter who it was,

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Speaker 1: it's like, my god, that's not what I said. But

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Speaker 1: that's okay. But you know, I sort of if you

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Speaker 1: have to ask so then so, so, how do you fight?

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Speaker 1: That's screaming and yelling sometimes? How I you know, as

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Speaker 1: I look at you too, I see you guys has

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00:17:21,676 --> 00:17:26,156
Speaker 1: been raising your voice. But somehow none of your loud

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Speaker 1: arguments are lethal. I don't think you take any crap

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I found it somewhat amusing to me

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Speaker 1: that I'd be the one overall, which we said earlier

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Speaker 1: that I would be more like Jesus calmed down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but we're not lethal to each other. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a line. I do believe there are things you can't say,

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Speaker 1: Like there have been sometimes maybe where we've said things,

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Speaker 1: you know, where we didn't mean it, and maybe we

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Speaker 1: crossed a line. Well, then go ahead and you know,

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Speaker 1: get a group or whatever you know, or like you know,

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Speaker 1: you said that, Yeah, I probably said that to him. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of the wibblton of all that's I mean,

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Speaker 1: we'll know. There's way worse than that. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think have you over said the D word divorce? I

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Speaker 1: don't under said that word. I mean there's been times

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Speaker 1: where no, we haven't said that. The thing that he

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Speaker 1: has said to me our whole life together is don't

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Speaker 1: give up on me. I'm a work in progress. Don't

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Speaker 1: give up on me. And then I started saying to him,

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Speaker 1: don't give up on me. You know, I'm a work

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Speaker 1: in progress too, because you know, I grew up with

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Speaker 1: only women. I never thought I would be married. I

335
00:18:38,556 --> 00:18:40,876
Speaker 1: had no idea how to be a couple, and it's

336
00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:43,516
Speaker 1: been a learning curve for me. I was so independent,

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Speaker 1: and he was, you know, wanted us to be like this,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, it took me a

339
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Speaker 1: long time to do that. Someone said a second marriage

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Speaker 1: is a triumph of hope over experience. And the biggest

341
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Speaker 1: thing that Patty did for me basically was allowed me

342
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Speaker 1: to be me. He needs a best friend and a

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Speaker 1: consigliari and a wife and a lover and all those things.

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00:19:08,916 --> 00:19:12,556
Speaker 1: That's what makes him thrive and be a better person.

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Speaker 1: John has the best moral compass. And what's great about

346
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Speaker 1: people assuming that he's this like hothead is that they

347
00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:23,916
Speaker 1: continually underestimate how smart he is. Oh, what a nice

348
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Speaker 1: thing to say. Yeah, is there anything about yourself, either

349
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Speaker 1: one of you that you consciously changed to accommodate the

350
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Speaker 1: other one. For years, it was like the idea of

351
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Speaker 1: me taking a girl's trip or traveling or going away

352
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Speaker 1: on my own was like out of the question. I mean,

353
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Speaker 1: John just could. He didn't want me to do it.

354
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Speaker 1: He would get really angry at me if I did it,

355
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Speaker 1: because he traveled and he thought I should be with

356
00:19:50,516 --> 00:19:53,196
Speaker 1: him and I should go away when he went away,

357
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Speaker 1: But then my kids would be alone. And so finally,

358
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Speaker 1: over the years now it's dawned on him that my happiness,

359
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Speaker 1: you know, these things are end of my happiness. Yeah,

360
00:20:04,476 --> 00:20:07,236
Speaker 1: it does matter. It's not like like, you know, he

361
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Speaker 1: really did think that I should just be happy with him.

362
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Speaker 1: All my happiness should be with him, And a lot

363
00:20:12,436 --> 00:20:14,756
Speaker 1: of my happiness is with him, but I get happiness

364
00:20:14,836 --> 00:20:18,236
Speaker 1: from other things like my girlfriends and going on traveling

365
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Speaker 1: to places that he wouldn't want to go to, and

366
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Speaker 1: also music. What did you change your accommodate John virtually

367
00:20:26,596 --> 00:20:29,916
Speaker 1: giving up her career, that's what she accommodated. I mean,

368
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Speaker 1: that's the biggest thing by far. Now she was the

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Speaker 1: bit disillusion but I don't think she envisioned that it

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Speaker 1: would lead to twenty years, you know, twenty years later

371
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Speaker 1: where you're still like, Okay, I've gone through batches of

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Speaker 1: song did this? To get over that hump requires an

373
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Speaker 1: incredible commitment that you know, because you have to not

374
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Speaker 1: only do the record, but you got to set up

375
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Speaker 1: how it's going to be. I mean, there's so many

376
00:20:53,516 --> 00:20:55,796
Speaker 1: things to lose your place in line. You lose your

377
00:20:55,796 --> 00:20:59,636
Speaker 1: place in line, well, that's in essence what you are,

378
00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:02,036
Speaker 1: and then it's you. It becomes more and more of

379
00:21:02,036 --> 00:21:05,476
Speaker 1: an uphill battle. And the weird thing is is being

380
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Speaker 1: a woman and being married to John. People assume that

381
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Speaker 1: I don't want to work. They would never say that

382
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Speaker 1: to a guy. No, never, no, say I was like

383
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Speaker 1: some heiress. They would never ever say why are you

384
00:21:18,716 --> 00:21:21,156
Speaker 1: still playing tennis? Or why are you a commentator? I

385
00:21:21,156 --> 00:21:22,956
Speaker 1: know you have to go want to ask one did

386
00:21:22,956 --> 00:21:25,316
Speaker 1: we clear up? Like when you have a fight, who

387
00:21:25,476 --> 00:21:28,196
Speaker 1: makes it okay? Do you both do that? Well, we

388
00:21:28,316 --> 00:21:30,676
Speaker 1: both do that, but you're better at it. I think

389
00:21:30,716 --> 00:21:33,556
Speaker 1: I'm a little better at sort of trying to diffuse

390
00:21:33,596 --> 00:21:35,916
Speaker 1: it at this point. I think ultimately I've had to

391
00:21:35,996 --> 00:21:40,156
Speaker 1: take the lead in that that's amazing. Well, some of

392
00:21:40,196 --> 00:21:42,876
Speaker 1: it may be that. Yeah, so I guess that's a

393
00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:47,196
Speaker 1: good quality change that I've made. Because I'm pretty stubborn

394
00:21:48,436 --> 00:21:52,036
Speaker 1: and sort of get and me too, it's hard for

395
00:21:52,036 --> 00:21:55,076
Speaker 1: me to say I'm sorry, so and believe that even

396
00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:58,076
Speaker 1: you know that it doesn't matter if you're right. I

397
00:21:58,116 --> 00:22:00,636
Speaker 1: think to myself, I'm eighty percent right. It's still like

398
00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:04,236
Speaker 1: it so wide. I mean, ultimately, it's a hollow victory.

399
00:22:04,276 --> 00:22:08,036
Speaker 1: So that part was took me a long time to feel.

400
00:22:08,076 --> 00:22:11,196
Speaker 1: Like Jesus, if you look at it in what I

401
00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:13,036
Speaker 1: did for a living, you always try to put yourself

402
00:22:13,036 --> 00:22:15,356
Speaker 1: in a position to get the odds in your favor

403
00:22:15,396 --> 00:22:18,676
Speaker 1: as much that's where you want to be. So it

404
00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:21,236
Speaker 1: seemed like, you know, I'd sort of feel like I

405
00:22:21,356 --> 00:22:24,316
Speaker 1: cornered into It's like, you know, there it is. I mean,

406
00:22:24,396 --> 00:22:27,516
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's almost all your fault. But it

407
00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:31,756
Speaker 1: didn't matter ultimately because it was still weird fighting and

408
00:22:31,836 --> 00:22:33,956
Speaker 1: I felt bad and she felt bad. It was like

409
00:22:34,036 --> 00:22:36,756
Speaker 1: so I think over time I was able to sort

410
00:22:36,756 --> 00:22:39,396
Speaker 1: of put that aside a little bit and realize that's

411
00:22:39,396 --> 00:22:42,036
Speaker 1: not the point. Maybe that is one of the most

412
00:22:42,076 --> 00:22:46,956
Speaker 1: important ingredients in a good marriage is like do you

413
00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:48,836
Speaker 1: want to be right or do you want to be happy?

414
00:22:49,356 --> 00:22:52,356
Speaker 1: Like you can just be like okay, whatever, you know,

415
00:22:52,436 --> 00:22:54,716
Speaker 1: like I'm wrong And even if you feel like you're right,

416
00:22:54,756 --> 00:22:56,236
Speaker 1: because a lot of times you feel like you're right

417
00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:59,356
Speaker 1: but you're not. Is there something you'd like to pass

418
00:22:59,396 --> 00:23:04,516
Speaker 1: on that you've learned. Don't try to change someone, I mean,

419
00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:07,876
Speaker 1: that would be the thing. I mean, you gotta do.

420
00:23:08,116 --> 00:23:11,396
Speaker 1: Marry potential, like marry the person, like not who he's

421
00:23:11,436 --> 00:23:14,356
Speaker 1: going to be. Women are like notorious for that, Like,

422
00:23:14,356 --> 00:23:16,756
Speaker 1: oh you know he's got the potential, but like potential

423
00:23:16,956 --> 00:23:22,356
Speaker 1: is not good enough. But you can soften some of you, can't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you so my soft edges and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. Yeah, soften is one thing, changes another. I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure that neither John McEnroe or Patty Smite needs

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Speaker 1: any serious changes at this point. Since we talked with him,

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Speaker 1: Patty released her latest album. It's called It's About Time.

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Speaker 1: It's about their marriage, and just like the two of them,

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Speaker 1: it's in perfect rhythm until next time. I'm Marlo Thomas

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Speaker 1: and I'm Phil Donahue. I think you can change them

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Speaker 1: to the type of person the day he or she

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Speaker 1: needs to. You know, you think that they double day.

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Speaker 1: There's a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created

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Speaker 1: by US and produced by Sarah Lily. Michael Bahari is

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Speaker 1: a ship producer musical adaptations of It Had to Be

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Speaker 1: You by Selwagon, Symfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers,

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Speaker 1: along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special

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00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:29,596
Speaker 1: thanks to Jacob Weisberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars,

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00:24:29,716 --> 00:24:36,316
Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostek, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams,

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Speaker 1: and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember

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Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.