WEBVTT - Part Four: Was Robert. E. Lee a Good General? 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.760 Media. What's visible my celebrity penises? This is Behind the 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:15.600 Bastards a podcast where Drake's dick just got leaked on Twitter. 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.320 I didn't see it, but I have have a celebrity 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.759 penis story for you all. If you if you watch 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.280 the movie Galaxy Quest, in the scene where Tim Allen's 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.880 in his house and like rummaging around his ship when 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.760 the Aliens come to like visit, and he bends over 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.440 at one point wearing a bathrobe, and you see Tim 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.240 Allen's dick. So if you have ever wanted to see 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.400 Tim Allen's penis, there you go. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.599 Is this is breaking news, Joe. 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.440 Not huge stuff, not huge penis, but huge story. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.760 Yeah. Apparently apparently Drake. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.040 Drake was out here looking like a like a used 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.400 car lot, you know, just flopping the shit around. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:57.720 I missed it. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:00:58.440 You know. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:01.920 That's a good one. That's a good one. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:07.200 Wish wish I missed it yet. Shout out to Musk 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.759 for having lack of safety. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:13.880 Features on Twitter. This is Behind the Bastards a podcast 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:19.440 about famous people's genitalia. Yeah, it's also a podcast about 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.200 Robert E. Lee And actually we're about to start at 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:23.080 an earthquake. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:23.440 That just happened. 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:25.920 Oh yeah, we just had an earthquake. Just at an 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:27.160 earthquake California. 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:28.720 What a day? All right? 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:34.399 Speaking of celebrity penises prop this is part four of 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.759 our series on Robert E. Lee and horse Man. When 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.240 you talk about Robert E. Lee, you know, the question 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:44.959 everyone has is did he fuck his horse Traveler? 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:45.319 Right? 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.280 This is something historians have debated about for generations. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.880 I mean, I'm seriously like this whole time. When we 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.200 first started talking about doing these episodes, I'm talking at 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.200 twenty twenty three, when we started doing this, that was 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.000 my first question. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.279 I was like, are we going to talk about the horse? 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.080 Are we gonna talk about the horse? Now? It's undeniable 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.960 that Lee held a special fondness for his horse Traveler, 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.080 which is why he loved that horse, which is why 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.840 in twenty fifteen, Funnier Die put together a commemorative flag 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.079 celebrating Robert E. Lee's love for his steed, and we're 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.240 gonna put that. We will probably have that image leader 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:19.359 our episode. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.080 Oh yeah, it's great. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.640 You know the it's the only version of the Confederate 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.560 flag that that I think has some historical value. The 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.600 stars and bars with Lee fucking Traveler right in the moment, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:37.519 man pants at his ankles. Oh yeah, couldn't even get up, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.960 couldn't even get those pants off? Yeah, good god, almighty. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.680 What if this was on the hood of the General 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:45.560 Lee bro. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.880 Yeah, And my dad was still such a real one 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.840 and was like, so you need to see this your. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.600 Face to see some people really like horses. They so 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.400 let's get into the history of this here. Because Lee's horse, Traveler, 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.880 developed a fan following like during the war, really like 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.600 this horse is people cannot say enough about Traveler, and 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.680 that that fan following really accelerates to kind of a 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:13.280 ridiculous degree after the war. This kind of obsession with 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.119 Traveler as like the perfect horse. It mirrors this obsession 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.320 with Lee as the perfect Southern man. And it is 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.079 also a part of the Lost Cause mythology. 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.120 Yeah, kind of like a night rider, Yes, Michael knighton 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:28.840 kit in the car. 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.000 Yeah, it's the kit of the kit of being a 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.840 traitor as slavehole in truth. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:36.360 Now. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.960 Fitz Hugh Lee's fawning biography of his of his relative 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.440 Robert E. Lee is part of the process of canonizing 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.800 both Robert E. Lee and canonizing Traveler, an animal that 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.160 had no idea what it was doing. Let's be clear 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:53.600 about that. Traveler is not a bad is incapable of 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.400 understanding what it's fighting for. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.440 Not the topic of the Bastard episode. No, and it's 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.320 in Bystanderd here. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:03:59.840 Yeah. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.600 Yeah, it's like a police dog does not realize what 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.440 it's being used, doesn't know it's doesn't know it's racist. 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.360 Just yeah, yeah, biting people, does it? Yeah? 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:12.040 Now that biography by fitz you Lee cites a letter 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.440 that Lee wrote to his daughter when she asked him 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.840 basically like, Hey, I've got an artist friend and like Traveler. 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.560 Everybody's talking about how noble and wonderful your horse is. 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.960 My artist friend wants to draw a picture of Traveler. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.279 Would you send along a description? Now, I want you 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.520 to listen to how Roberty Lee describes his horse, and 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.880 you tell me if this is These are the words 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.839 of a man who is not fucking his horse. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.280 He's been a give fifty shades of gray, honest. Right 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.400 now he about to stand in a supermarket. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.240 Ye, here's Lee. If I was an artist like you, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.359 I would draw a true picture of Traveler, representing his 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:51.039 fine proportions, muscular figure, deep chest and short back. Strong haunches, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:56.160 flat legs, small head, broad forehead, delicate ears, quick eye, 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.680 small feet in black mane and dale. Such a picture 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.600 would inspire a poet whose genius could then depict his 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.640 worth and describe his endurance of toil, hunger, thirst, heat, cold, 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.440 and the dangers and suffering through which he passed. He 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:16.080 could dilate upon his sagacity and affection and his invariable 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:21.719 response to every wish of his writer. Now sure, when 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:27.080 he uses the word dilate, dilate, it could be using it. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.400 Definition number three in the American Heritage Dictionary is to 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.880 speak or write at great length on a subject. Perhaps 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.840 that's what Lee means, but one could also read this 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.880 as him admitting that his horse could dilate on command 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.440 to the every wish of his writer, you know, to 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.279 make their forbidden love making easier. And this is the 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.760 interpretation of his words that I choose to take. That's 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.960 why you read original sources, kids, You learn stuff like 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.120 this because yeah, he said what he mean. 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.880 There's definitely very much a sounded like sir mix a 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.560 lot of the eighteen hundreds on some like Baby Got Back. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.479 Yeah, Yeah, it's it's kind of like, you know, the 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.680 song Joelene. It's a great, great song. But also my 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.200 head cannon for the song Joelene is that the woman 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.000 singing that is less worried that her man's gonna leave 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.920 her from Joelene and more nursing a crush herself, because 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:19.640 you simply you don't describe a romantic rival that way. Yeah, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:24.159 she's into Jolene. Yeah, and Roberty Lee is into his horse, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.640 you know. Yeah, that's the only that's that's my interpretation. 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.479 So I mean, that's the only one I'm willing to accept, 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.240 you know, already weird and yeah, well you know what, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:35.600 never mind, I'm not gonna call him. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.360 I'm not gonna call it weird, Okay, forgive me. I'm 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.279 gonna be more tolerant. But that poor horse, Yeah, that 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:42.320 poor poor horse. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.960 Uh if only we'd had like a mister Hands sort 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.520 of situation with Roberty Lee. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:48.640 But alas. 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.560 So, now that we've gotten the horse fucking out of 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.279 the way, it's necessary that we spend some time talking 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.880 about Lee's actual performance in battle. His personal nobility, which 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.080 I think we have deflated in the preceding episodes, is 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.159 one part of the pillar that bears him as the 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.400 central figure of the lost cosmethology. But obviously you can 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.680 be a shitty person and a great general, right. History 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.000 is full of bad falls. I would go so far 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.679 as to say most great generals probably sucked as human beings. 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:18.160 You know. 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.320 One of the things you have to be in order 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.400 to be a great general is willing to send a 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:24.760 lot of people to their deaths. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:26.960 You know, yeah, the job requires it. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.520 It's like being a billionaire, Like, at some point you 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.360 have to not give a shit about human value. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.120 We can debate, there's arguments as to like how much 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.600 of the of the Soviet death toll was necessary? Did 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.200 Zukov was he too kind of loose with the lives 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.440 of his men? But also the Nazis had to be stopped, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.720 and at a certain point you had to just throw 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.080 lives at the problem. So, like, you know, I'm not 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.320 saying that making the decision to send men off to 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.240 death is necessarily a moral Sometimes it's necessary, right, But 0:07:57.640 --> 0:07:59.840 what I am getting at is like another pillar of 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.600 lost cost mythology is this idea that Lee was not 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.760 just a noble man, which I think we busted, but 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.440 that he was the greatest field commander that the US 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.600 produced in the nineteenth century. That is law. That is 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.880 how you will Yeah, that is how you'll see him described. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.720 And this is how jubil Early, one of Lee's generals, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.680 eulogized him. Our beloved chief stands like some lofty column 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.160 which rears its head, among the highest in grandeur, simple, pure, 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.440 and sublime. Biographer Roy Blunt Junior described Lee as one 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.679 of the greatest military commanders in history, although he noted 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.040 that Lee was quote not good at telling men what 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.400 to do, which would seem to be a contradiction. Like 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:44.920 a great commander is definitionally about commanding troops. So like 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.120 Blunt is doing kind of some lost cause. Shit here, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.600 I don't know how you he was a great commander. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.520 He couldn't order men to do stuff though. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.240 Yeah, it's almost like he's a comedian, Like, yeah, our 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:56.679 humor is so like I think there is a possibility 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.440 that he's like kind of like cracking a joke here, 0:08:58.440 --> 0:08:59.840 he's like greatest commander of all time. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.760 It wasn't really good. I like telling people what to do. 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was the greatest. I was the 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.640 greatest basketball player of my generation. I couldn't dunk or 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.120 make three pointers, you know, good it was a really 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.120 good at dribbling either, never actually played much basketball, but 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.120 telling you greatest, telling the very best. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:18.640 Yes. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.120 Now, the best book length summary of Lee's actual strength 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.640 and weaknesses as a commander that I have read is 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:29.200 Lee Considered by Alan Nolan, and it is, by the way, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.240 really good book, very readable. I recommend it heavily. It 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.320 gives a wonderful rundown of some of the most extreme 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.840 superlatives thrown Lee's way in post lost Cause history books. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.240 The nineteen eighty nine edition of Encyclopedia Americana states that 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.040 Lee was one of the truly gifted commanders of all time, 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.719 one of the greatest, if not the greatest soldier who 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.760 ever spoke the English language. The entry for Lee in 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.360 the nineteen eighty nine Encyclopedia Britannica reflects a similar judgment. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.000 According to the nineteen eighty eight revised edition of the 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:03.920 Civil War Dictionary, Lee earned rank with history's most distinguished generals. Now, 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.640 what the kind of easiest reppost to this is like, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.839 he lost? How you be that good of he fucking lost? 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.280 I will actually push back against that a bit, not 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.880 in Lee, but that I don't think you have to 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.439 have won your war to they claim to being one 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.080 of the greatest generals in all of history. Most contenders 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.920 for that greatest general title did conquer a lot of land, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.400 did win a bunch of wars, right, Napoleon wins a 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.240 number of wars, conquers most of Western Europe, defeats multiple 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.680 nations and decisive battles. He does eventually lose, but he 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.160 wins a lot before he loses. And that's the sheer 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.440 number of field battles that he won is like a 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.760 big part of like, you can't really argue the man 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.719 was put one of the best to ever live at 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.319 commanding armies in the field. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.000 Yeah, right, absolutely put up numbers. There's another way around that. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:52.880 Yeah, And there's there's a number of generals like that. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.120 Irwin Rommel is an example. His cult of personality is 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.240 kind of similar to Lee, right, where like there's this 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.120 at it need to like he was one of the 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:04.000 good Germans in that war. He was a fundamentally moral 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.200 man within an evil system. And he was also just 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:11.320 this genius, brilliant tactician. That is not accurate. He was 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.280 not as good as his historical reputation, but I think 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.520 the consensus is he was not like a bad field commander, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.840 like he just it gets exaggerated well past the point 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:22.720 of rationality. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.440 And I would even say too, like, I mean, at 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.119 the end of the day, you got to check the scoreboard. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.880 But you know, when it comes to something like as 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.000 complicated and messy and unpredictable as war, it's like, yeah, 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:39.720 there's so many other factors that factor into you know, 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.480 freaking weather, like you're saying, like this could be the weather. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.600 You know, just so many things factor into it that 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.120 don't necessarily. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.720 Mean you were a good or bad general. It's just 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:50.920 things happen. 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.600 Yeah, yeah, And because of that there are great like 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.360 the best example of a guy who lost his war 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:02.600 who was nonetheless rightly regarded as among the very Charles Barkley. Yeah, no, 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:07.640 the Charles Barkley of Carthage, Hannibal Barka right. Hannibal loses 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.800 his war against the Romans. He loses the Battle of Zama, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.800 which is the final battle of the Second Punic War, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.240 and he loses. After that, he continues to fight a 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.120 naval war against Rome for some other people, and he 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.120 loses a number of battles there. He is still universally 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.400 there's really no argument that he is one of the 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.840 most talented and skilled field generals who ever ever existed 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.559 in the history of human conflict. And there's it's because 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.800 when you look at what he actually did in the field, 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.640 you simply can't deny the brilliance. The Battle of cane I, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.800 which is his like crowning moment, is basically this massive 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.480 Roman army larger than his he is able to double envelope. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.160 He completely encircles them and massacres them to the man 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.040 at the loss of very few of his troops. It 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.800 is such a victory that if you read what German 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.440 generals were writing in like the early stages of World 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.800 War One, like why they were ex secuting the plans 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.199 they were executing twenty two hundred years after the Battle 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.920 of can I, all of these German generals we're talking 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.160 about wanting to do a can I, right, Hannibal bark 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.160 At was like the it was the like the high 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.360 watermark for generalship for longer than Christianity has. 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.840 Been, long as Christianity existed. Yes, it is as long 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.119 as there's been the faith. 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:22.800 He's been Yeah. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.880 Yeah, And I think too, like just the fact that 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.000 like history essentially, like the only reason we know what 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.679 we know is because some dude kept a diary. You know, 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.360 so if a dude like was that impressive to the 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.600 points of where somebody wrote it down, like Yo, this 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:43.319 Hannibal kid, the kid is a cold piece of work, y'all. 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.880 And you know what I'm saying, and it lasts he's like, 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.560 we won, yeah, but dang god, damn. Yeah, the kid 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:50.200 is cold. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.880 Yeah, he made it all the way to now it's 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.520 just some dude' john diary right to his wife like yeah. 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.800 Shit, yeah, this guy scary as was whooping my yeah. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.480 And Lee gets compared to Hannibal a lot because again, 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.920 they both lose their war, but they're both seen as like, well, 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.360 they fought so well despite they were outnumbered. The other 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.520 nation had a much better industrial base. You know, it 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:15.560 was a doomed cause from the beginning, but they still 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:17.600 almost pulled it off. And that's what makes them great. 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:17.880 Right. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.960 That's true for Hannibal. I don't think there's any realistic 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.800 I'm sure you can find some historians, but I think 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:24.800 the vast consensus is, yeah, the man was a fucking 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.920 genius at war. That is not true for Robert E. Lee, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.400 And it's not true based on his very clearly documented record. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:32.280 Robert E. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.920 Lee was one of the first four generals named for 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.160 the Confederate States, but he was not as soon as 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.960 Virginia gets, you know, integrated into the Confederacy. He is 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.680 not the top general yet, right, He's actually below two 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.520 other generals, Samuel Cooper and Albert Sidney Johnson. And in 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.040 the early days of the war, because he's kind of 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.520 trying to give his thoughts on everything, like what should 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.520 we do here, what should we do here? He gets 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.600 ignored by other commanders a lot. But there's a point 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.680 where like they're looking at like Manassas, which they think 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.200 the Union is going to attack. They know the Union 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:06.680 is going to attack, and Lee is like, I think 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.120 we should fortify Manasses and hold it in a defensive action, 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:15.960 and PGT. Beauregard declines to fortify Manasses as Lead had advised, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.080 and then said, counter attacks the Union advance. This is 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.640 the Battle of bull Run, and the Confederacy wins the 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.600 Battle of bull Run. So Beauregard ignores Lee's advice and 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.240 wins one of the earliest critical battles for the Confederacy. 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.320 I mean, everyone's heard of bull Run right, Yeah, that is, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.120 he wins it doing the opposite of what Lee had 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.640 suggested he do. Now, you can't call this a failure 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.760 on Lee's part, right, because like that's just part of 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.400 any functional military. You're gonna you guys proposing. Yeah, but 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.040 it is an example of two commanders, because it was 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.280 I think Johnson and Beauregard at bull Run. It's an 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.440 example of two commanders ignoring Lee's advice and then winning, right, 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.000 which is certainly does not suggest like the greatest miliity 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.720 terry mind America ever produced. Right, Yeah, Now, Lincoln responds 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.600 to bull Run by moving Union troops into Western Virginia, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.920 which was at the time just part of normal Virginia. Right, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.760 We're talking about like the region, not the state, state, 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.800 the physical location, yeah, of the place. Now, this is 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.520 going to be where Lee has his first combat command 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.320 of the Civil War. His opponent, initially McClelland's going to 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.240 get transferred to. His opponent initially is George McClellan, and 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.520 likely McClellan is a Mexican War veteran. In fact, during 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:34.040 the Mexican American War, McClellan had reported to Lee as 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.840 a junior lieutenant and he and Lee are kind of 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.600 mirrors of each other in a way, and that they 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.400 both owe this sudden rise to command into like being 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:48.160 generals to the Civil War. McClellan is also like personally, 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.320 he's really sympathetic to the South. He likes Southerners better 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.640 than he likes Northerners. But he's also just not a 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:56.440 fucking trader. 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:56.680 Now. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.840 Yeah, not a great general either, but he's not a trader. Yeah. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.200 So he has some initial success in West Virginia. He 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.760 overruns another Confederate commander's forces in West Virginia right about 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.200 the same time Beauregard and Johnson win Bull Run. Now, 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.439 because the Union has suffered this defeated bull Run, but 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.760 McClelland has had this kind of smaller success. This is 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.560 just basic propaganda, right. Lincoln's people are like, well, we 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.040 got our asses kicked here, but like this guy saw wins, 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.199 so we really need to hype this, right. Yeah, and 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.120 this is also probably where we should pour more resources into. Right, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.720 we had one win. Maybe if we give we put 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.560 some more men into this, we put some more power 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.720 behind this, they can crack in further. 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:37.120 Right. 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.720 So Lee gets sent to counter this Union advance, right, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.760 and Jefferson Davis orders Lee to strike a decisive blow 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.040 in West Virginia. Lee takes command of the Confederacy's Northwest Well, 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.920 he doesn't quite take command of the Confederacy's Northwest Army, 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.480 but he's sent there, right, he's sent there, and people 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.119 who treat it as if he's going to be in 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.720 command of the army. And this causes a fever pitch 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.520 if it, excitement to build back in the Confederate Capitol. Now, 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.639 remember Lee had been lauded prior to the start of 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.160 the war as the best soldier in the United States, Right, 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.560 That's was the the buzz around him, And so there's 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.560 this excitement like, man, yeah, Johnson and uh and Beauregard 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.840 did great at bull Rum, But like Lee's really gonna 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:20.200 fucking kick there. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.720 Like he's gonna really start getting hot. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.280 Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay, So this is a big news 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.320 story that Lee's about to be, you know, finally in action, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.919 and people at the time follow it kind of like 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.480 they follow celebrity gossip today. When he's finally sent into 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.600 the fight, his fans are so certain that he's gonna 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.440 be like huge that they write a song about him. 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.200 Oh God, who dare invade our homes and country braggarts, 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.600 though the villains b will dose them well with shot 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.080 and bullets, to the tune of General Lee, I don't know, 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.640 not a great song, but uh yeah whatever Lee's father. 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.040 Yeah, yeah, I went to that one. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.680 So Lee's fought had once owned most of this state, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.560 like most of West Virginia. Right when lighthorse Harry's trying 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.600 his like land buying schemes to get rich like he 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.480 this is where like his million acres are, and obviously 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.040 it does him no good. He loses it all, And 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.880 Robert E. Lee is about to make losing West Virginia 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.200 a family tradition because he follows his dance footsteps here. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.600 He may have had some inkling of this when he 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.399 wrote this to his wife while traveling the countryside with 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.920 his army. What a glorious world, Almighty God has given us, 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.879 How thankless and ungrateful we are, and how we labor 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:40.600 to mar his gifts. He's just being a little emo there, like, Wow, 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.040 the world is so beautiful. Why are we wasting all 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.920 of our time in lives fighting this hideous war? 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.680 O for it? Yeah in Virginia. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.720 Yeah, I'm saying he was making fun of the trees 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.679 in Virginia early. They'll be pretty without me, now, you 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.159 see it. Huh. 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.919 So the army, the Northwest Army that he kind of inherit, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.440 and we're building to like the degree to which he's 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.000 actually in command, but he kind of inherits this army. 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.800 It's in really bad shape. Again, it's still basically it's 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.600 like halfway between a militia and being turned into a 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.560 proper fighting force. Okay, shit's so primitive right now. He 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.040 doesn't have a uniform, right, he's just like wearing he 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.479 just guys like kind of a gray jacket that he's wearing. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:24.240 Right, Hey, guys, just pair comfy shorts, some good strong boots. 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:26.240