1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: Hey, what's up. You're in Minnesota. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 3: I am in Minnesota. Where are you? 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: I'm in New York. 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 4: I'm in my cozy little studio here in you know, 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 4: the Bloomberg Empire's headquarters. It's a nice little spot. So 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 4: coming up, we're going to catch up with Jesse Jacobs. 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 4: This is the guy you know better than I do. 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 4: I know him by reputation. I'm psyched to talk to 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 4: him because he's invested in a whole bunch of different things, 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 4: but especially recently in youth sports, which I want to 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 4: talk to you about. But before we do that, all right, 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 4: a couple headlines caught my attention. One over the last 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 4: couple of weeks is our buddy Jerry Cardinal. He was 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 4: a guest on the show. He's creating this new company 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 4: that's basically going to invest in college sports. 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: What do you make of this? 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 5: Well, this reminds me, Jason, of the time before social media, 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 5: right before Facebook, before Instagram. The world is about to 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 5: change and is in a very fluid spot right now. 21 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 5: That's why it's difficult to speak about this, and that's 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 5: why it's so interesting. But I think Jerry Cardinal has 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 5: proven over the last two and a half three decades 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 5: that he's always one step ahead of the curve, and 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 5: in many ways, what he's doing today I think is 26 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 5: a preview of what we may see in four or 27 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 5: five years, which is is Duke basketball owned by Blackstone, 28 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 5: Is Michigan Football owned by KKR? I think is going 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 5: there faster than people think. 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's funny. 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 4: I dug into this a little bit just because I 32 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 4: always want to understand as you do, what Jerry's doing. 33 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 4: So as I understand it, He's created this company. It's 34 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 4: a partnership that is basically going to loan money to 35 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 4: college athletic departments. We're talking like fifty million to two 36 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars, and essentially they're learning the money to 37 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 4: build out these organizations to take advantage of all these 38 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 4: new name, image and likeness opportunities, other media related and 39 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 4: commercially related opportunities, and of course the upside for them 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 4: is a cut of future earnings. 41 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 2: I started thinking. 42 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 4: About, like, well, why would they do this, and it's 43 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 4: exactly for the reasons that you described. The other thing 44 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 4: that struck me, and this came up in our conversation 45 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 4: with Jerry, they did legends, they did on location. These 46 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 4: are live experience businesses. At the end of the day, 47 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 4: college athletics are live experiences business. 48 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: So when I. 49 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 4: Started to look at it from that perspective, it makes 50 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 4: a ton of sense because these games and I'm thinking 51 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,839 Speaker 4: about you going to visit your daughter at the big 52 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 4: House at University of Michigan. I mean, think about all 53 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 4: the money flowing around a University of Michigan football game. 54 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 55 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 5: And also, don't forget the S network for Jerry Carnell, 56 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 5: who you started that with, Yes, you know two thousand 57 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 5: and one four George Steinberunner's partnership of Cannas Saxo when 58 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 5: he was just thirty three years old. Look, I think 59 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 5: this world of college is so interesting and we should 60 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 5: all keep an eye on it because it's one of 61 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 5: the most ever changing. 62 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 3: Business models that there is. 63 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 5: I mean, you've gone from take Michigan football, you mentioned it. 64 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 5: It went from a very simple model of big revenue, 65 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 5: low expenses. You take care of the head coach, you 66 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 5: take care of your coaches, and after that you have 67 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 5: the regular administration. Right today, you have bigger revenues and 68 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 5: growing tremendously because of the TV contracts, and now you 69 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 5: have to run a. 70 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 3: Mini semi protein. 71 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 5: Now you have to care players, You need to institutionalize, 72 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 5: you need to bring more a business people, M and 73 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 5: A people, and this is something that universities are not 74 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 5: quite equipped today. So I like what Jerry's doing because 75 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 5: through Debt with a Kiss on top, when you say 76 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 5: you get a little bit of the upside, I call 77 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 5: it the side door. But I think the debt side 78 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 5: is the most coacher side and the easiest side to 79 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 5: approve because you keep the institutions in control. 80 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 4: Okay, I'm going to say it. This is one of 81 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 4: my favorite phrases. It's ever been undered on our show, 82 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 4: Debt with a Kiss on Top. I mean, that's fantastic. 83 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 4: I don't feel like I'm going to use that like 84 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 4: later today. All Right, we got to talk about U 85 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 4: sports because it's going to be a big part of 86 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: our conversation with Jesse Jacobs. I've been dying to ask 87 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: you this because you came up through youth sports in 88 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: a very meaningful way. I know you have a couple 89 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 4: deafews who played baseball coming up. I've been a parent 90 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 4: of a kid who went through the club system for lacrosse, 91 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 4: and now I was playing in college. When I say 92 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 4: youth sports to you, what do you think about? Well, 93 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 4: I think about the craziness of parents. 94 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 5: And of course I'm in South Florida, Jason, where every 95 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 5: kid thinks he's going to be the next Rothfaeld Palmero 96 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 5: or Derek Jeter or a Rod or whatever. It's a 97 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 5: business that is very, very sticky. The reason why is, look, 98 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 5: every time you look up, there's a new three hundred 99 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 5: million dollar contract, two hundred and fifty million dollar contract 100 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 5: being signed, and is irrational. For this reason, parents will 101 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 5: do what they can't afford to send their kids to 102 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 5: travel to pay for a five hundred dollar bat. I mean, 103 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 5: my mother's a perfect example. We couldn't afford barely to 104 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 5: eat steak, but she put all her money together to 105 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 5: send me to summer camp or to buy me a bat. 106 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,799 Speaker 3: So I think as a growing business. 107 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 5: And I love with Josh and Blitz are doing Josh 108 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 5: Harris and Blitzer are doing David Blitzer and now with Jesse. 109 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: I think it has a huge, huge upside. 110 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think about this all the time, 111 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 4: in part because I grew up as a kid, I 112 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: played a little bit of travel baseball, a little bit 113 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 4: of travel soccer. 114 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: Fast forward to being a parent. 115 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 4: These are empires that are being built to really meet 116 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 4: the demand, which is seemingly insatiable. One of the things 117 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 4: I really wanted to talk to Jesse about is this 118 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 4: idea of you have to think about the economics on 119 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 4: the part of the individuals, because, as you said, parents 120 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 4: are willing to spend almost anything, but there are a 121 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 4: lot of parents and a lot of families, as we know, 122 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 4: who just simply can't afford it. And you really don't 123 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 4: at least, I don't want a system where the only 124 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: people who can ultimately play professionally or even at the 125 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 4: college level are those who can afford, you know, tens 126 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 4: of thousands of dollars a year to play club baseball, 127 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 4: or to go to the showcases or go to the tournaments. 128 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a mitigating that has to be addressed. 129 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 4: I'm interested to see what Unrival is doing about this. 130 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 4: And yet the capitalist in me looks at this and says, 131 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 4: it's a highly fractured market, as we've agreed, and I'm 132 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 4: one of those parents willing to spend a lot of 133 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 4: money to help their kids live out a dream. And 134 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 4: so there's a hell of a lot of money to 135 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 4: be made. So you can see the investment case easily. 136 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 5: Yes, the investment case. You can talk about it in spades. 137 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 5: But I'll share one story with you, Jason. I know 138 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 5: a family in South Florida. There is about fifteen years ago, 139 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 5: the mother sold her car. She now takes the bus 140 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 5: to work. She mortgaged her house three times. And this 141 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 5: is all to give her son an opportunity to go 142 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 5: to college and be the next professional star. And you 143 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 5: have to watch that a little bit. We have to 144 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 5: take care of families like that. 145 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: Now. 146 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 5: Of course, you and I we can afford to send 147 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 5: our kids, you know, to camp and they can do 148 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 5: all of that. 149 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 3: But I know my mother couldn't do that. So I 150 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: was a scholarship kid. 151 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, so obviously the business is great, but from a 152 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 5: scholarship point of view, what are you doing for those 153 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 5: families that cannot afford? And also you want to protect 154 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 5: them from themselves that in order to chase this dream, 155 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 5: they're not going to file bankruptcy. 156 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and the reality is, and you know 157 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 4: this well from your own experience and also through family 158 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 4: and things like that. The actual number of scholarships for baseball, lacrosse, football, 159 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 4: basketball are very very small. I mean, the top of 160 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 4: the funnel is massive. The bottom of that funnel in 161 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 4: terms of the money that's actually given to people in 162 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 4: order to get a full fledged education, especially a full. 163 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: Ride, those are tiny. I mean. 164 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 4: And then of course, like to make it in the 165 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 4: professional it's like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction. 166 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm probably rolling on this more than I should, but. 167 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: No, Jason, and listen, I'm very passionate about this too. 168 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 5: And the deal is that you know, if you look 169 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 5: at the data, and the data is very open and 170 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 5: very transparent, probably one out of very thousand make it. 171 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: So you have to go in with eyes wide open. 172 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 5: And I rather than say it is not an investment, 173 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 5: I rather than say I want to give my son 174 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 5: or my daughter are the best opportunity to advance their 175 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: career as far as possible. Now that's a little bit 176 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 5: more accurate, but the blind spot to think this is 177 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 5: an investment for the future, chances are that is not 178 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 5: going to pay off. 179 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 3: So as long as they know that, that's important. 180 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 4: Looking forward to our conversation coming up with Jesse Jacobs. 181 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Deal. 182 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 4: I'm Jason Kelly here with my co host Alex Rodriguez. 183 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 4: So this week we're talking to Jesse Jacobs. He co 184 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 4: founded a firm called TCG, the Churnin Group. It's an 185 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 4: investment firm that builds consumer and media businesses and some 186 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 4: of the deals you have definitely heard of Barstool, the 187 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 4: Professional Lacrosse League, and one recent one unrivaled Sports, a 188 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 4: deal they just went into with Josh Harris and David Blitzer. Jesse, 189 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 4: really good to have you with. 190 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: Us, Jason, Alex thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me, 191 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: big fan of its show. 192 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 4: All right, so Jesse, make all our guests do this. 193 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 4: So introduce yourself because we always want to hear like 194 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 4: how people sort of present themselves to the world. 195 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: Actually have two jobs. So one job, I'm a founding 196 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: partner of the Churning Group. Churning Group is a growth equity, 197 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: private equity firm that invests in sports, media, content, consumer 198 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: two partners. We run about three billion dollars of capital 199 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: run our third fund. Majority or most of what we 200 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: do is in sports, not one hundred percent. I'm happy 201 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: to go through that. We've been doing that for about 202 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: fourteen years completely separately. I'm a principal and main owner 203 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: of a film and TV production company called North Road. 204 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: We're one of the largest producers of movies, TV shows, 205 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: reality shows, and we do probably more sports docs sports 206 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: content than any production company and studio out there. Based 207 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, currently in New York and huge sports fan. 208 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: So that's me, big sadly a big Met fan. 209 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: But we're doing all right this yere. 210 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 4: So, yeah, you're a good company of like sad Met fans. 211 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 4: I feel like that's a badge of honor at this 212 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 4: point now. So Jesse, you know, one of the things 213 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 4: that jumps out to me, just to play a little 214 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 4: bit of this is your Life, is you're an English major, 215 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 4: which I love. I was an English major as well, 216 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 4: so like, how do you find your way into the 217 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 4: sort of media business world. 218 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I found out that I could actually 219 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: go to college and read books and graduate, I was. 220 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: I signed up for that. At University of Pennsylvania, I 221 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: was an English and communications major, loved sports, just wanted 222 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: to be in the sports industry. And when I was 223 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: in college between my freshmen and sophomore year, Fox Sports 224 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: got the rights to televise the NFL from a from CBS, 225 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: and in between my freshman sophomore year, I flew out 226 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: to LA got a job as an intern. It's like 227 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: the third person in that office. And saw them build 228 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: that over the summer, and when I went back to Philadelphia, 229 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: they were like, hey, by the way, when we filmed 230 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: games in Philadelphia and New York and Washington, we need 231 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: people to sit and truck and keep track of you 232 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: know how many times Emmitt Smith has run to the 233 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: left in the center and the right. So John Madden 234 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: can say that, or we need to when they start. 235 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: When they picked up baseball, we need somebody in the 236 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: truck to basically say, all right, Alex Rodriguez went from 237 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: first to third after the guy back of them, you know, 238 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: hit a single. And so I did that for four 239 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: years and realized the more successful you get in sports 240 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: TV production, if you're really successful, you work in Thanksgiving football, 241 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: you're working Christmas basketball, you work in New Year's college football, 242 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: you know. And I saw the lives very successful. It's 243 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: just not I didn't want to be every weekend on 244 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: the road, every holiday on the road, and then ended 245 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: up going to business school, ended up at Goldman Sachs 246 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: doing investing, investment banking, all in sports and media, and 247 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: then left to start these two firms with Peter about 248 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: fourteen years ago. And Peter had been the CEO and 249 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: chairman Peter Churnman of Fox and News Corp. For many years. 250 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 5: Yeah, Jesse's interesting you mentioned about once you found out 251 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 5: about reading books and then you were excited about college. 252 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 5: When I found out you had to read books, I 253 00:11:58,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 5: passed the college, I went to the pro. 254 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 3: So that explains it. Okay, I'm talking with two. 255 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 5: Really smart people here, but you know of your impressive resume. 256 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 5: You know, we've become buddies over the years, and I 257 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 5: was selling Jason before you jumped on that you're one 258 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 5: of the most talented people that I've ever come across. 259 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 5: And it's not just because your high IQ, but your 260 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 5: equ is also very strong. But I've always read just 261 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 5: someone who has a great nose for great talent and 262 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 5: deal flow. Where did you learn that from and what 263 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 5: attributes do you think you know is the biggest payoff. 264 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: For you there? 265 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. I mean to me, it's 266 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: all intuition and psychology, you know, we're going through this 267 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: right now. With there's a company, a's a person who 268 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: runs it very successful. They own one hundred percent of it. 269 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: And you can look at the numbers and you look 270 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: in the business plan, you know, and at the end 271 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: of the day, that's going to get you so far. 272 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: But ultimately, can you work with that person do they 273 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: have what it takes to win when you're alone with 274 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: them and ask them questions about psychologically, how does this 275 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: process feel to you? Are you excited about it, you're 276 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: nervous about it? Are you selling me in this process? 277 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: Or are you completely transparent and open about And I 278 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: think you just learn those reps just through human intuition 279 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: and also communication. Ultimately, ninety five percent of everybody's job, 280 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: maybe not athletes. I don't know. Is storytelling, which is sure, 281 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: it's when we're sitting down and saying and you know this, 282 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: Alex very well from all the successful businesses you've been in. 283 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: But if you get someone to invest with you, you 284 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: are showing them numbers, but you are telling them a story. Right, 285 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: If you are trying to convince somebody to take your 286 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: money to invest in them, you are telling them a story. 287 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: Our entire job is storytelling. 288 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 4: So take us back to twenty ten, because you know 289 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 4: you mentioned Peter Turnant like unbelievable career works for Ruper Murdoch. 290 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 4: You guys sort of strike out on your own, you know, 291 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 4: three of you to sort of do this, and there 292 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: are some interesting choices you make, one of which is 293 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 4: you're going to create this holding company that kind of 294 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 4: takes away some of the traditional, candidly like barriers and 295 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 4: obstacles that you would face as an investor. So talk 296 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 4: to us about some of those key decision because it 297 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 4: feels like it leads you towards maybe different investments then 298 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 4: you would have otherwise pursued. 299 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there were two things that we thought about. 300 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: One was structuring ourselves as a holding company not a fund, 301 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: which may seem like a technical point. I think as 302 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: a fund, you raise money from a lot of different investors, 303 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: you have to invest it over a specific period of time, 304 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: and you have to exit over a specific period of time. 305 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: We wanted way more flexibility. Most funds are investing between 306 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: ten and twenty companies in one fund. If we just 307 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: wanted to do four investments, if we wanted to hold 308 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: on to something longer, if we didn't want to have 309 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: to exit something if we wanted to put forty percent 310 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: of our capital into one business. Those were things we 311 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,119 Speaker 1: felt were important. The second thing is we said to ourselves, 312 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: you've got the big private equity firms Blackstone, kkar Apollo, Carlisle, Goldman, 313 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: Sachs's investment business. We're never going to compete with them 314 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: on capital never. Then you have the early stage investors Benchmarin, Sequoia, Excel. 315 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: We're probably never going to compete with them in terms 316 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: of being great venture cat they're exceptionally what they do. 317 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: There is this lane, and I think we've done a 318 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: decent job of carving that lane out where you have 319 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: a mid sized company. They're too small for Blackstone, they 320 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: require way too much work and way too much involvement 321 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: for a traditional venture capital firm, and they need somebody 322 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: who operationally can help them. You know, we get asked 323 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: all the time, who are competitors. I just don't know 324 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: anybody else who's going to walk into Dave Portnoy and say, 325 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: all right, Dave, like we'll buy fifty one percent of 326 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: your business and do a lot of the work to 327 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: serve you. In terms of hiring a CEO, hiring a 328 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: management team, moving to the whole office to New York, 329 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: supporting your vision, et cetera. And that's what we've done repeatedly. 330 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: And it's just a lane that no one else seems, 331 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: very few others seem to play in. 332 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 4: I mean, the other thing, key decision, it feels like 333 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 4: you make. We all have a lot of friends in 334 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 4: the private equity world that like they sort of say 335 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 4: they're going to do It's like, no, no, no, we're investing 336 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 4: in people, We're gonna do this. But like at the 337 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 4: end of the day, because of all those things that 338 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 4: you said, because like the fund has a life, you know, 339 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 4: they've got a lot of investors to answer to, they've 340 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 4: got a certain structure. They may want to do that 341 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 4: even but they're not really able to do You think 342 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 4: that's a fair comparison. 343 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: Yes, with Dave we Hada deal, we're never get involved 344 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: in this creative. With Reese Witherspoon, we built Hella Sunshine 345 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: with and for her. Ultimately she sold that to Blackstone, 346 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: never going to get involved in the creative. We're the 347 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: only outset investor in Peyton Manning's business, never going to 348 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: get involved in the creative. Were the only outsid investor 349 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: in Questlove's business. Never get involved, and it's just we're dead. 350 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: The minute we say you know what, I actually think 351 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have said that. You know, individual abarc it's over. 352 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: So how do you pick those people? 353 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think that there are three things. One is, 354 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: it has to be a person who has a passionate audience. 355 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: The first time we saw the Google analytics for Dave Portnoye, 356 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: we fell for chair. You know, when we looked at 357 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon's instagram, we fell off the chair. That's one 358 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: piece of it. The second piece of it is it's 359 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: to be that person's idea. So it was b Reese's idea, 360 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: it was Peyton's idea, it's Dave's idea. It's not their agent, 361 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: their manager, the representatives saying, hmm, there's a big opportunity 362 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: in tequila. I think you represent that lifestyle. Why don't 363 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: you do it? Tequila brand's got to be that person's idea. 364 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: And the third thing, and this might be the biggest, 365 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: that person has to show up. The first time somebody 366 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: called us about Reese said hey, b Reese has this idea, 367 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: and we said, okay, Like I've seen this before, you know, 368 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: is she into it? Seven am? Breakfast the next day 369 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: Porten I did one hundred percent the negotiations. Peyton Manning, 370 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: you know, shows up is their texts, email, is on 371 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: Instagram late at night. They're all looking for what influencers 372 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: are out there. They have to show up themselves. And 373 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: I think those three things have been the recipe for 374 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: what works. 375 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: You know, Jesse, when you talk about sort of the 376 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: competitive landscape, but I'd sort of think back to even 377 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 4: you describing how you start your careers sitting in trucks 378 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 4: and counting stats and things like that, and it takes 379 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 4: me to the present day in the media world, and 380 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 4: specifically the sports media world. You know, we're looking at 381 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: an NBA right steal that's being negotiated. We've seen all 382 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 4: these records, you know, being broken over and over again. 383 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 4: We were talking Alex and I earlier about what's going 384 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 4: on in the college sports landscape. As you think about 385 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 4: the sports media landscape at this point, how do you 386 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 4: characterize it at this point and what should we be 387 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 4: looking for sort of around the corner. 388 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: If you're a league or a team, the thing you 389 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: want always want is however many bidding packages you have 390 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: to sell. You want one at least one more buyer. Yeah, 391 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: and the NBA has that right now, you know. And 392 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: I think the challenge and the concern with some of 393 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: these leagues that have sold so many different packages so 394 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: many different places, is some of those buyers may go 395 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: away soon. So will CBS still be there where there'll 396 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: still be for broadcast owts. I don't know. That's an 397 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: interesting thing, and I think it was brilliant for some 398 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: of these leagues to put in these long term deals 399 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: so they have that guaranteed money for a period of time. 400 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: The second thing is I think the college landscape is 401 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: most ripe for disruption. I mean, it is complete chaos 402 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: right now, complete and we're deep into it in a 403 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: variety of different ways. 404 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 3: The schools are. 405 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: Paying for players, the conferences are playing for players, the 406 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: sponsors are paying for players, the alum are paying for players. 407 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: All of a sudden, you go from one year to 408 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: this school, then you go to that school the next year. 409 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: It's chaos and that has got to change. So I 410 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: think the biggest opportunity in sports media, I believe, just 411 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: given the appeal of college football and how disruptive that 412 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: the whole space is in college. 413 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: So Jesse. 414 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 5: You know, in twenty fifteen, the last two or three 415 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 5: years of my career, I joined Fox and Eric Shanks 416 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 5: brought me in and John nt The one regret that 417 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 5: I said, I said, boy, I wish I would have 418 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 5: done this rookie year to really understand the landscape of media, 419 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 5: that they're not my enemies, that they're a bridge to 420 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 5: the consumer. And in New York I kind of played 421 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 5: everything very tight. Going back to your career, you started 422 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 5: Fox and CBS. How do you think working with people 423 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 5: like Shanks, John Madden, how has that shaped and helped 424 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 5: your career over the last few decades. 425 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Fox in particular, there was something fascinating 426 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: about them, where look, the CBS, ABC and NBC had 427 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: football for however many years, right, and they said, you 428 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: know what, actually I don't know where the first down 429 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: line is. It's a little bit hard to see. Why 430 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: don't we put a yellow line? Can we actually put 431 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: the microphones closer to the field that make them louder? 432 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 3: Can we? 433 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: Actually? They were, by the way, the first one to 434 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: do the Fox box in baseball, which is like where's 435 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: the runner going right? 436 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 3: And that was David Hill, right, David Hill totally. 437 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: David Hill had Jerry Glanville, I remember, you know, they 438 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: just were like, we're gonna turn it more into entertainment, right, 439 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: and they changed directly. TV changed, you know, in many 440 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: ways when they get out of market. Games and technology 441 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: has always changed the viewing experience. I do think the 442 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: one thing I would say about the NBA, I think 443 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: oddly baseball has done a decent job. That's recently with 444 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: miking the players. I think if you look at some 445 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: of the broadcasts, the quality has better. I think the 446 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: NBA has a long way to go on changing how 447 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: it looks and feels when you watch a game, it 448 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: doesn't look nearly as different as to ten or twenty 449 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: years ago. That's a sport in particular, where I think 450 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: that they could increase the production value. They've done a 451 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: decent job with putting the microphones in the huddle. I 452 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: think that helps look. People are looking for something new 453 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: and fresh and loud and energetic. They're looking for technology 454 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: to be integrated. They're looking for personalities, and I think 455 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: Fox what it taught me at least was you know 456 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: that that stuff matters, and we'll get an audience. 457 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 4: Okay, so let's talk a little youth sports if we can. 458 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 4: It's something Alex and I talk about all the time. 459 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 4: He obviously came up through the system as it was 460 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 4: as a amateur and then professional athlete. I actually am 461 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 4: heart of a college athlete, so I experienced the whole 462 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 4: club world. And we know Josh Harris and David Blitzer 463 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 4: really well what they've done with Unrivaled and getting together 464 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 4: with Cal Ripkin and his brother Billy Ripkin to form 465 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 4: this company. You guys come into Unrivaled as a big investor. 466 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 4: Tell us about how that came about and how you 467 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 4: go about assessing something like that. 468 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had two themes. We're very theme driven in 469 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: how we go about investing. And by that, I mean 470 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: we say, you know, eight years ago we said sports gambling. 471 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: Seven years ago we said podcasts. A couple of years 472 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: ago we said, there are two main themes that we're 473 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: interested in. One is you sports. The other happened to 474 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: be sort of European soccer, and that led to an 475 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: investment as well. And here's what we do. We assign 476 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: a team, multiple different people, and that team's job is 477 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: to go out there and fund every youth sports company 478 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: in the United States of America, within every sport, within 479 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: every part of the value chain, and then over time 480 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: you start to winnow down you're like, you know, I 481 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: think this part of the value chain is interesting. This 482 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: part isn't interesting, Like we concluded. You look at baseball 483 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: as an example, the little league level really hard to 484 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: enter into. It's nonprofit, it's mom and pop really hard 485 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: to enter into. You know, you look at don't should 486 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: we get into the business of making bats and balls? 487 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: Really hard to get into that business. You look at 488 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: premium experiences and you're like, I have sadly a stratification 489 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: of wealth in the world that creates a class of 490 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: people who have increasing amounts of discretionary income who also 491 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: want whatever that they could do to enable their child's 492 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: progression academically, athletically, etc. And are looking for premium experiences. Look, 493 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: Josh and David are the two best or two other 494 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: best you know, investors and people out there to partner with. 495 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: And they had one asset which was incredible, which is 496 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: within baseball. Two assets within baseball, Cooperstown All Star Village 497 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: taking place right now by the way, you know, thousands 498 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: of kids over the summer having a great experience. And 499 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: they had these cow Ripken weekend tournaments. Yeah, by the way, 500 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: not in New York and Baltimore, in LA and Philly, 501 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: in Pigeon Forge, in Aberdeen, you know, all around the 502 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: and people go and they get to like play baseball 503 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: in a field that looks like Fenway or Wrigley. Unbelievable experiences. 504 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: We known them, they believe, I think, I mean, you 505 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: should ask them that there was value that we could 506 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: provide on the media content management side of it. And 507 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: we came in and bought a third of it. We're 508 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: all equal partners. It's a great business in and of itself, 509 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: and I think there's a huge opportunity to grow the 510 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: baseball business. But beyond that, take football. We just bought 511 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: seven football fields right next to Canton, Ohio. There is 512 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: no equivalent of the Cooperstown All Star Village experience for football, 513 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: you know, and the plan is on those seven football fields. 514 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: Why can't over the summer, whether it's flag football or 515 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: seven on seven for girls and boys, have a similar 516 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: type of experience. There should be a similar type of 517 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: experience in all sports. And kids aren't going to stop 518 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: playing sports. Parents are not going to stop spending money 519 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: to enhance and enable their kids. And I think it's 520 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: just the single most exciting opportunity in sports today for 521 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: us is the use sports. 522 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 5: So Jesse, when I think about my real estate business, 523 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: I've been doing it for over twenty years. 524 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: We do two things. 525 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 5: We buy, we fix, we refine, or we buy we 526 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 5: fix it sell. So naturally for you guys, you know 527 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 5: you're in the business of RIRI and return capital to 528 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 5: your LPs. When you think about the next steps, two questions. 529 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 5: One do you ever see a world where you can 530 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 5: get the leagues to partner with you as they can 531 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 5: control the next generation of great athletes? And two, what 532 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 5: is a possible exit if it is not the league's 533 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 5: is it going public? 534 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: Is it a blackstone? How do you look at that? 535 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so one hundred percent on the leagues. I mean, 536 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, the NFL currently has a flag football program. 537 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: You know, the NBA does a lot in use sports. 538 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: The basketball youth ecosystem is interesting because it's got very complicated, 539 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: it's effectively professional. You know, minor leagues with AAU. The 540 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: leagues being part of this would be great. Every league 541 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: being part of each of these things would be phenomenal. 542 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: So that's your answer that we haven't done a deal 543 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: today that has gotten as much positive where the inbounds 544 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: afterward from investors, strategics, individuals, people, leagues has been as 545 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: positives in terms of people being interested in co investing. 546 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: So I think whoever ends up buying it, I think 547 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: that the way we have to think about is let's 548 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: build a great business and the rest will take care 549 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: of itself. 550 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 3: You know. 551 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: I think if you start thinking of trying to engineer 552 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: the exit multiple years in events, you'll end up screwing up. 553 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: Just build a great business, and great businesses end up 554 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: working out and Jesse. 555 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 4: One of the things that Alex and I have talked 556 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 4: a lot about was this notion of, yes, you have 557 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 4: this strata that we're fortunate to be a part of 558 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 4: that can afford you know a lot of these club 559 00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 4: teams and travel teams. 560 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: And all that different things. How do you create. 561 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 4: These businesses and grew these businesses so that you can 562 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 4: widen the access and widen the aperture so that you know, 563 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 4: more people can take part of this. I take your 564 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 4: point about like local fundraisers and things like that, but like, 565 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 4: is there a mechanism by which these can be a 566 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 4: little more accessible as these sports get bigger and bigger. 567 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: One. I mean, I actually a different way to answer 568 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: that question. I've thought about, like what should be done 569 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: to fix baseball? Yeah, you know what I would do 570 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: to I mean there's a lot I have a lot 571 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: of use on how to fix baseball. 572 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 3: Tell us tell us. 573 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: One is, each team should commit thirty million bucks. I 574 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: don't know, thirty five million bucks, which, by the way, 575 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: you do the math on that and you quickly get 576 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: to a billion dollars capital. Right, it doesn't have to 577 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: be all front to build the most state of the 578 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: art baseball fields in inner cities across the country. Put 579 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 1: coaches there, put you know, ex players there. But you 580 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: know what I also you should do there, have after 581 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: school programs, so you know, moms and dads and single 582 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: moms who are working who can't pick up their kids, 583 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: send them to that place, do their homework, and get 584 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: them food. Like you want to get a younger generation 585 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: that's more diverse in America back into baseball, have their 586 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: mom say, you know what you're doing after school today? 587 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: You're going there and you're playing for three hours and 588 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: you're going to those types. 589 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 3: Of things. 590 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: All right. 591 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 4: So we literally could talk to you all day, but 592 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 4: we want to be conscious of your time. We do 593 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 4: like to do a little rapid fire with all of 594 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 4: our guests, Jesse. So all we say is keep it tight. 595 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 4: What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal 596 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 4: making or business? 597 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 3: Be honest, what's the best deal you've ever worked on? 598 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: Barstool? 599 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 4: What's the deal you wish you'd been a part of. 600 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: How long do we have? God, that's a good question. 601 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: I think any of those NBA teams that were bought 602 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: when Blitz bought the Sixers and that sort of wave, 603 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: that wave which just I remember, by the way, as 604 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: I coled me, we were selling the we we're in 605 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,719 Speaker 1: an arbitrator on a deal where the Atlanta Hawks owners 606 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: were Yeah. I mean that was like they couldn't give 607 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: the franchise away. I'll tell you the other deal. In 608 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, we came this close to buying Hulu for 609 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: a billion three wow, which, yeah, that one would have 610 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: been good. 611 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 5: So, Jesse, what's your walk up or hype song before 612 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 5: a big meeting or a big negotiation? 613 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: Oh? 614 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: God, you know, the honest to god truth is, I 615 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: don't have one, but it probably would be white noise. Okay, 616 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: it would just be white noise, just to block it 617 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: all out, just to block it all out. 618 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right. 619 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 4: So what's one mistake that everyone should avoid in negotiations? 620 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: And I learned this the hard way many times. But 621 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: when you're in a negotiation and somebody proposes something to 622 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: you and you know there's a list of things that 623 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: they're going to go through, just wait until you hear 624 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: everything on because if you respond to that one thing, 625 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: you may be prepared to give that thing up. But 626 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: wait until you see what the full thing is, so 627 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: you can go back and the thing you were prepared 628 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: to give up when you've done it in totality, seems 629 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: like more of a concession than it does. 630 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: In the moment. 631 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 4: Oh that's good. That's really good. That's really good, Alex. 632 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 4: Anything else for our friend. 633 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 5: Well, I just want to give Jesse a compliment because 634 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 5: I said what I meant both before he jumped on 635 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 5: and when he was on. I think Jesse's a type 636 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 5: of investor that is not all or nothing. I do 637 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 5: think that he thinks about the other side. He thinks 638 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 5: about the long term partnership, and he also is willing 639 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 5: to leave a little bit on the table, and I 640 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 5: can't say that for every investor. And Jesse, as far 641 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 5: as white noise, try playing in New York for fifteen years, 642 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,959 Speaker 5: you get planning. 643 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, Jesse, thank you so much, Thank you, Jesse. 644 00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 4: It's really fun saying. 645 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: All right, all right, take care of cheers. 646 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 4: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. 647 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 4: This episode was made by Victor eveyas Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus, 648 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 4: and Lizzie Phillip Arth. The music was made by Blake Maples, 649 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 4: Brendan Francis. Neonham is our executive producer. Sage Fauman is 650 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 4: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Kelly Lafarier, 651 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 4: Ashley Honig, Rachel Scaramzzino, and Elena Los Angeles. If you 652 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll 653 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 4: help other listeners find us. 654 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. See you next time.