1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am my demeracon 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: our past and present through food. 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: So make yourself at home, even brichel. We have talked 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: a lot about meat. I'm a big meat eater. We've 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: talked about chicken, fried steak, cadmia, sada. 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: We've covered the hot dog, barbecue, barbacor. 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: It is time to talk about sevice. 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: Peruvians are the originators of sevite, but Mexicans take civi 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: ta very seriously too. 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: Today's episodes all about sevice. We've never discussed raw fish. 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: I mean, have we discussed fish in general? I feel 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: like this is roundbreaking for us. We haven't talked about 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: fish at all. We've talked a lot about meat and 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: a lot about sweets. The communities have eaten raw fish 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: and raw meat around the world for centuries. Well, every 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: time I eat sevicia, it's called Peruvian savichi, but I 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: eat it all the time in Mexico, So I feel like, 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: are there different versions? Does it originate in pdu. 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: It does originate in Peru, but Mexico has regional sevicha's 23 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: as well. But this idea, this consumption of raw meat 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: has been practiced in various cultures around the world for 25 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 2: thousands of years, and so I think it's super interesting 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: to see these similar customs springing up in different parts 27 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: of the world and just shows how people are just 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: trying to figure out how to survive. 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: Right, So, like raw meat and fish like raw meat, 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: raw fish were a paleo diet, right, I mean technically 31 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: Paleolithic era before before humans learned how to cook technically. 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: Even like Eskimo's consumed l well meat and Native Americans 33 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: consumed raw buffalo. 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: Meat raw are we saying are we saying like they 35 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: dried it or or raw like like sashimi. 36 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: Raw like sashimi exactly like ra ra like rara, like 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: like tar tar ra ra. You know, ra la ra. 38 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: So historically, who ate the first sliced raw fish? It 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: must be Asia. 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: No, So the first recorded evidence dates to China around 41 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: A twenty three BC. And so this sort of practice 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: of eating sliced raw fish was popular, especially at banquets 43 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: for the nobility. But after that period records of eating 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: raw fish are pretty scarce, and it's probably because diners 45 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: were getting sick, so they were linking this consumption of 46 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: raw fish to diseases. So we kind of stuck seeing it. 47 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: And we start seeing it again in Japan around the 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: eighth century, so centuries later, and we start seeing thish sashimi, 49 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: so sashimi. The word sashimi literally translates to sliced meat, 50 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 2: and it became super popular around the seventeenth century during 51 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: the Edo period in Japan, which is a super interesting 52 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 2: period when Japan was basically cut off from the rest 53 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: of the Western world for about two hundred and fifty 54 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: years and sort of Japanese food and a lot of 55 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: things Japanese really developed during this time. 56 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: So so like sixteen hundred, sixteen hundred eight to the 57 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred. 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, sixteen oh three to eighteen sixty eight is when 59 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: that happened. And so this was possible because Japan has 60 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: so much fish, right, just the sort of abundant fish 61 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: that's suitable for consumption, and also the mass production of 62 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: soy sauce. Sauce reduced the sort of fishy smell of 63 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: the fish and it enhanced its flavor. 64 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: So wait, so soy sauce was invented specifically for sashimi. 65 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: Not specifically for sashimi, because but they were making soy sauce, 66 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: you know, for seasoning for food, and they started adding it. 67 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: They just realized, oh, this really just makes. 68 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: It taste better. And so they used all the fish, right, snapper, tuna, yellowtail, 69 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: amber jack, like, there was no fish that was not 70 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: used exactly. 71 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: They used a lot of fish, and they just have 72 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: abundant of freshwater fish. But on the other side of 73 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: the world around the same time or even before, for 74 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 2: thousands of years, we have Peruvians, specifically the Macha culture 75 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 2: that's even pre inca culture also eating raw fish. So 76 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: I love this idea of just sort of similar customs. Yeah, 77 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: Machini seviche emerging on opposite sides of the world at 78 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: the same time. 79 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but those those two worlds would eventually meet through immigration. 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: In Tokyo, you're getting freshwater fish, what are you getting 81 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: in other parts of the world. 82 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: So Peru has this long Pacific coastline, so we also 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: have these fresh sea bass and soul and red snapper, 84 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: and that has been caught there for centuries. But it's not. 85 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: You can't just eat like, yeah, you can't just eat 86 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: like any raw fish, right, I mean like I wouldn't. 87 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't fish out of the rio grand and eat 88 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: that raw right. 89 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: No, you would die. Please don't please don't, Yeah, don't 90 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: do that. Please don't do that. Not all species of 91 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: fish are suitable for raw consumption, right. And also because 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: some bodies of waters are so you know, polluted, and 93 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: so a lot like a lot of fish can and 94 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: shoffish can contain parasites or bacteria. When we see sushi 95 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: grade fish today, tuna and salmon and yettletail and sea bass, 96 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: that is a term use to describe the fish that's 97 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: considered safe to eat raw. It's a high quality fish 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: that's been handled and processed to ensure freshness, and it's 99 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: typically caught quickly, bled and then gut it and iced 100 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: and so other like fish like salmon that are known 101 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: to contain parasites are frozen at zero degrees fahrenheit for 102 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: seven days or flash frozen super quickly for about fifteen hours. 103 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: And so in the US, when we buy sushi grade fish, 104 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: most of this fish has been flash frozen. 105 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you make sevicha like when I make 106 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: sevich at home, I get sushi grade, I am like, 107 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that the fish is properly 108 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: ready to be consumed raw. 109 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And if you're going to make it, you know, 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: anybody listening, if you're going to make rough fish, go 111 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: to reputable fishmonger and tell them that you're going to 112 00:06:59,040 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: eat it raw. 113 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: To so Mexico, like, where does Mexico come in? Because 114 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: I feel like Peruvians obviously introduced this to Mexico when well, 115 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: there are. 116 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: Different theories, right, So one theory is that, you know, 117 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: Peruvians when when the Manila Galleons were coming to Mexico, 118 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: and we talked about this a little bit in our 119 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: Mercalo's episode, they would land and there would be these 120 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 2: big fairs for like a month and a half, and 121 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: Peruvians would go to a capulo to to buy stuff 122 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: to buy these luxury girls coming from Asia. So maybe 123 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: they brought this tradition with them. Another theory is that 124 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: maybe this tradition was brought directly from the Philippines. 125 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: Oh oh again, because can we talk about can we 126 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: please talk about water chili like to me feels more Mexican. 127 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: Do they have awacina in Peru or do they have 128 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: technically the evolution of this in each of For Mexico, 129 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: it's technically it's basically I watch Mexican awa Chile and 130 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: Peruvian tiratos are basically the Mexican and the Peruvian sashimis 131 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: so because when we think of Chile, you see. 132 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: It mostly in the northern coast of so Noda. It's 133 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: also popular just along the coastal areas. And it's definitely 134 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: distinckling Mexican because it's super spicy, right, And titos is 135 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: sort of the Peruvian version, and they use ahi, which 136 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 2: is the Peruvian word for Chile, and let which is 137 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: tiger's milk, which is like a spicy citrus based, you know, marinate. 138 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: But it's the the Latin American version of sashimi just 139 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: sliced rough why. 140 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: Chile with sliced raw shrimp. That's like the famous one 141 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: here in Mexico. Like if you go to pot if 142 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: you got a cabo, you know, any of those vacation spots, 143 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: if you order normally, it comes with wrong with shrimp tue. 144 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. I've also had a really good 145 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 2: one with ross scallophous. 146 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: You're fancy, you're bougie, so bougie, all right. When we 147 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: come back, we're going to dive into the history of 148 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: Peruvian Sevici. 149 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 2: We talked about Peru during our potato episode and discussed 150 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: how scientific these ancient communities were when it came to agriculture. Well, 151 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: the history of Cevicha there is just as rich. So 152 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: don't go anywhere. 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: I feel like Cevicha is Peru's most emblematic dish. 154 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty three, UNESCO added Peru Sevice and 155 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: the culture surrounding Cevicha to its Intangible Cultural Heritage list, 156 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: and so yeah, the importance of this dish was recognized 157 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: by UNESCO. So this is why it's the most emblematic dish. 158 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: And they have such a long coastline that they must 159 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: have a close relation with the ocean and obviously used 160 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: it to survive and thrive in free Colombian times. 161 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: They had to absolutely in the roots of modern Dcevita 162 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: date to the Moche, a civilization that thrived in the 163 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: northern coast from the first through eighth century, and their 164 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: society was made up of these warrior priest rulers, weavers, 165 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: metal spiths, potters, farmers, fishermen, and they used these sophisticated 166 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: irrigation techniques to turn desert into farmland. They built canals 167 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: and reservoirs, and they supported a population of about twenty 168 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: five thousand, which is really incredible. But they left these 169 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 2: numerous artifacts behind depicting fishing scenes, and some of them 170 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: have evidence of these boats made out of reeds, and 171 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: they developed special tools for fishing. So the Moche would 172 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: catch their fish and marinated in dumbo, which is a 173 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: really tart acidic fruit that's kind of similar to passion 174 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: fruit that's native to South America. And so there's evidence 175 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: that they were doing this about two thousand years ago, 176 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: and then the Inca, you know, that came later. They 177 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: also developed these advanced techniques for fishing the use of 178 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: nuts and harpoons and fish traps. And this connection between 179 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 2: the Inca and pre Inca cultures and the ocean is 180 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: evident again in their art and their mythology. The Inca 181 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: goddess Mamcocha, which is the mother sea, was the guardian 182 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: of sailors and fishermen and was worshiped to ensure calm 183 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 2: waters and good fishing. She was also believed to protect 184 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: marine life and keep it healthy and fertile. Wow, so yeah, 185 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 2: it's amazing. And so there's pottery and textiles with fish 186 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 2: and sea creatures. So they were definitely a seafaring of 187 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: seafood eating population. 188 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: So when Spaniards landed, they must have like thought they 189 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: hit the jackpot. They were like what is this dish? 190 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: Because they landed later. They landed later in Bedter than Mexico. 191 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: But when Spanish colonizers landed in Peru, how did they 192 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: influence I guess this particular fish marinated you know in 193 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: Peruvian chili's with the seaweed and the dumbo, Like, how 194 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: did how did it start to change or evolve? 195 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 2: Well, the Spanish and Portuguese traders they introduced onions. They 196 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 2: introduced citrus first the bitter the bitter orange, and then 197 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: limes and lemons. So and so that's how it started 198 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: to evolve. Instead of the dumbo that they were using before, 199 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 2: they started eating citrus. So it starts becoming a little 200 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: bit more familiar to the city that we have today, 201 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: which is you know, citrus based. And so we have 202 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: this earliest known recipe for sevita Day's to eighteen sixty 203 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: six and it's by Lima Ryder named Manuela Nastasio Fuentez, 204 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: and he describes it as small pieces of fish or 205 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: shrimp based in sour orange juice with a lot of 206 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 2: chile and salt. I've never had ceviita with sour orange juice, 207 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: but it's probably delicious. 208 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Especially you know in Medina they have 209 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: that that sour orange what's. 210 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: It called naki? Yeah, yeah, Well that's that's your deira, 211 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 2: that is myerra, that is my dearra, my dad's land. 212 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: By the way, that sour orange goes well with so much. 213 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: It goes well with the ce vice, goes well with fish, shrimp, pork, 214 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: you know, they do the the with that sour orange marit. 215 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: It goes with everything. I wish we could grow. 216 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: It, I know. 217 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: And so no one else was introduced. Well, the potato 218 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: comes from Peru, right that the potatoes endemic to Petu 219 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: is the sweet potato also endemic to Petoo and the 220 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: corn nuts, because every time I have Peruvian sabcha, it's 221 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: with those big pieces of corn, the corn nuts, with 222 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: this big chunk of sweet potato. And I'm always like, 223 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: what is sweet this sweet potato feels like odd man 224 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: out in my sabichi. 225 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: It does because we're not familiar with that. I mean, 226 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: it's definitely we don't see that in our Mexican savy chair. 227 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: But yeah, sweet potatoes are native to to Peru, so 228 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: it makes sense that they would include it and the 229 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: giant cornuts. And they also include ginger in it, which 230 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: is an interesting addition. So we start seeing this kind 231 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: of Asian influence there with the ginger in the savy chin. 232 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that at the citrus 233 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: actually cooks the fish, right, Like, if you put lime 234 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: on the shrimp of the fish, you leave it for 235 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: a while, it actually cooks the fish. How is that possible? 236 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: Because yeah, that's crazy. 237 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: It is kind of crazy. The protein in the tissue 238 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: of the fish coagulates with the acid, and it makes 239 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: the meat firm and opaque, and it's you know, it's 240 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: sort of quote unquote cooks it. So it is this 241 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: interesting chemical reaction that happens. 242 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: Where does the word sebchi come from. 243 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: So it may come from the Quechua ward sewechi, which 244 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: is for fresh fish, or for the Spanish escaveche for 245 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: pickled food, So it could be you know, this word 246 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: escavich is an ancient method of preserving food in either 247 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: vinegar or citrus that was introduced by the Spanish via 248 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: the Moors, and so we see colonial era Spanish cookbooks 249 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: containing recipes for both fish treated with vinegar or fish 250 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: marinated in the juice of bitter oranges. So it could 251 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: be a combination of the quechua swechi or the word 252 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: is caavechi. It's one of those mysteries, but both both 253 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: makes sense. Lima cuisine is super interesting. We talked about 254 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: at the beginning of the episode about this Edo period 255 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: where things where Japan was sort of shut up from 256 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: the rest of the world. So at the end of 257 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: Japan's Edo period, which we mentioned before, Japan opened up 258 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: their doors and Peru was advertised as a paradise by 259 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: Japan's new Meiji government, but really it wasn't. Recently independent, 260 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: Peru was transitioning out of this economy that relied on 261 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: slavery and on the system of indentured you know, agricultural 262 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: labor that replaced it was really brutal, but Japanese immigrants 263 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: they moved here to work these labor intensive or menial 264 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: jobs that were you know that people just didn't want 265 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: to do and they lived in that's desire familiar one 266 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: hundred percent, one hundred percent. 267 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: So Paru's the first fire. 268 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy. Peru was the first Latin American 269 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: country to accept Japanese immigrants. The first ship of Japanese 270 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 2: immigrants arrived in eighteen ninety nine with about seven hundred 271 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: and ninety passengers who came to work on sugar plantations, 272 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: and then others arrived as farmers. They worked in silver 273 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 2: mines and on cotton plantations, and this wave continued until 274 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: the mid twentieth century. 275 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: This story is nothing new. Obviously, every immigrant community travels 276 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: with their culinary traditions, and I think as long as 277 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: there's been diasporas, like all these communities always try to 278 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: replicate their food. They try to make their recipes with 279 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: foreign and unfamiliar ingredients, and then this new fusion takes place. 280 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: This was what I was doing when I was in 281 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: Cataluna for six months and I could not find Chile 282 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, somebody send me. Somebody smuggled me in. 283 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: Some said an o peppers because they just can't That's 284 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: why you like, oh, I can't find good Mexican food 285 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: in certain places. It's because you don't have tolmathios, you 286 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: don't have said an. You know, there's a version of 287 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: a tol maadio, there's a version of a chila. But 288 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: you have to use what you have. And I think 289 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: the Japanese immigrants eventually, you know, open small businesses, which 290 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: obviously included restaurants. So many immigrants open, you know, restaurants, 291 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: and so I think with the generation of this like 292 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: Japanese Peruvian community, they became part of the social fabric 293 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: of the nation. And that's that to me is beautiful. 294 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And this is where this nick cuisine 295 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: comes into play. The word nique is Japanese word for 296 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: immigrants and their descendants. So this is what they were called. 297 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: Nique cuisine. Is this blending of both cultures and Nike 298 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: food is a testament to their success because they were 299 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: embedded in the economic and social fabric of the nation. 300 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: And so we see Peruvian ingredients shaped by Japanese techniques 301 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: and prepared through a Japanese lens. 302 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: So I feel like they Japanese would know how to 303 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: value raw fish right, like they were like, yes, this 304 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: is a dish we can get behind marinating raw fish. 305 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: So before the Japanese arrived, they were marinating the fish 306 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: for you know, twelve hours, and the Japanese were like, no, no, no, 307 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 2: we want to taste the fish. So let's put the 308 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: lime and just let it sit for about fifteen minutes 309 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: so that we can actually taste the fish. So we 310 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: have the ahi, the lime, the red onion, the salt, 311 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: this letter there, but just eating it right away. So 312 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: so it just created this a new level of flavor. 313 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 2: So you started you start seeing these you know sevi 314 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: titty as, these nikue sevy tittia is opening up all 315 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 2: over Lima and around the and around the country. 316 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: Everybody's heard of Nobu and he's obviously a famous Japanese chef, 317 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: Nobu Matsuhitsa, the famed Nobu restaurants all over the world. 318 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: But he was working at a sushi bar in Japan 319 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: when a Japanese Peruvian customer who traveled twice a year 320 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: from Dul to Tokyo asked him if he wanted to 321 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: open a restaurant together in Pdul, and he did, and 322 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: then he moved to Lima at age twenty four, and 323 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: he learned in Lima from the culture and began combining 324 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: his flavors, and his restaurant was a huge success thanks 325 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: to this large Japanese community in Lima. 326 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? It's I find that so fascinating. He 327 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: was only there for three years. He considers Peru's second home. 328 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 2: But this is where he honed. I mean, he was 329 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 2: an incredible sushi chef in of course in Japan. Otherwise 330 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 2: he wouldn't have been lured to Peru. But this is 331 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 2: where he started combining these interesting flavors. And now you know, 332 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: he doesn't need a last name anymore more. He's just 333 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 2: he's noble. Everybody knows, you know, everybody's heard of him, 334 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: you know. So I yeah, and that's just a testament 335 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: to to food and cultures coming together. 336 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get some Awa Chile right now. Thank 337 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: you guys for spending time with us. We love hearing 338 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: from you, so keep sharing your messages and your reviews. Mikey, 339 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: you got some good reviews. You want to shout them out. 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: Borosa Pine is her handle. She left us a review 341 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: that said, love the podcast. I learned so much every 342 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: time I listen and loden Now from the Bear, I 343 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: sent a message after she heard our flun episode. She said, Yo, 344 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: I eat to eat dessert, Minkanta Hungry for History. You're 345 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 2: both doing a fabulous job. 346 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: Well, thank you everybody keep sending us messages. Glad you're 347 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: enjoying our nerdy journey into food history. We will see 348 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: you all next week. Hungry for History is a Hyphenet 349 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: Media production in partnership with Iheart'smichael Tura podcast network. 350 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 351 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.