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Speaker 1: Rifle shots aren't unusual during deer season in Borough, Minnesota,

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Speaker 1: but in twenty sixteen, one of those shots wasn't aimed

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Speaker 1: at a white tail. It was aimed at a husband

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Speaker 1: and father of four, shot with his own rifle by

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Speaker 1: a perpetrator who might be a stranger or someone much

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Speaker 1: closer to home. Now, nearly ten years later, a gun,

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Speaker 1: a van, and whispers in a small Midwestern town, point

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Speaker 1: in every direction and nowhere at all. That's next on

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Speaker 1: blood Trails. When fifteen year old Jonathan Briske got home

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Speaker 1: from school on November seventh, twenty sixteen, he only had

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Speaker 1: one thing on his mind, deer hunting. His dad, Terry,

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Speaker 1: had taken off work that day, and so the older

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Speaker 1: brisk was already chasing white tails on the families one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty two acre property in central Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: I remember getting off of the bus and slave getting

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Speaker 2: ready for deer hunting. Ran up the house, got all

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Speaker 2: my clothes, got ready. I had my mom drop me

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Speaker 2: off close to a blind that I was sitting at

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Speaker 2: earlier that weekend. I was just going up for some dolls.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't exactly sure where his dad was hunting, but

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Speaker 1: he knew he was out there. Pam John's mother and

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Speaker 1: Terry's wife had shot a deer the night before on

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Speaker 1: a Sunday, and the couple have been up late tracking it.

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Speaker 1: They'd eventually found it, but Terry decided to take the

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Speaker 1: next day off work. That was unusual for him. Everyone

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Speaker 1: I spoke to mentioned Terry's uncompromising work ethic, but deer

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Speaker 1: season was only three days old, and he figured he'd

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Speaker 1: check his stands and if he got lucky, run into

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Speaker 1: a buck in the woods.

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Speaker 3: I know he was out in the area. I just

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Speaker 3: didn't know exactly where he was at.

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Speaker 4: So I proceeded to keep texting him and texting him.

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Speaker 3: And just no response.

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Speaker 4: Well, then stuff started quieting down, and kept texting him,

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Speaker 4: and also I could hear a ding ding, like okay,

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Speaker 4: he's he's close by, Like I can hear his phone

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Speaker 4: is on.

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Speaker 3: So I was, you know, waiting, Okay, maybe he's coming

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Speaker 3: this way.

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Speaker 1: But Terry didn't get any closer. He also didn't silence

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Speaker 1: his phone, which for a deer hunter is strange.

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, okay, what's going on. So then that

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Speaker 3: at that point I had gotten out of my blind

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Speaker 3: and I just started walking away from my blind to see, okay,

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Speaker 3: is he down in this ravine here somewhere.

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Speaker 1: That's when John saw his father. But he wasn't walking

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Speaker 1: through the forest and leaning against a tree or climbing

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Speaker 1: into a blind. He was lying on the ground, motionless,

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Speaker 1: his blood soaking the fall leaves. John knew right away

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Speaker 1: his father was dead.

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Speaker 5: I just instantly started freaking out, yelling to the world, like,

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Speaker 5: what's going on? I yelled, help.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I'm out in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 7: And then also I'm like, I have to make a

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Speaker 7: phone call.

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Speaker 8: I have to call and tell somebody, because I just

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Speaker 8: it was no shape at all to make phone calls

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Speaker 8: other than to my mom.

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Speaker 7: I felt like, I just that was the first person

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Speaker 7: that came in my mind to call. I just I

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Speaker 7: had no idea what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Pamercalls, dropping John off in the woods, returning to the

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Speaker 1: house to take care of her other children, and receiving

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Speaker 1: the call that would change her life.

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Speaker 6: They're not my house?

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Speaker 9: Could that Jordanan call me?

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Speaker 10: And so that there was something wrong?

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Speaker 9: And so I went run it over there and calling

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Speaker 9: everyone one in the nipe of it all because he

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Speaker 9: was trying to find me. Scatche me and he had

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Speaker 9: phone phon Terry oaks in the woods.

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Speaker 1: John doesn't remember much about those minutes alone in the

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Speaker 1: woods with the body of his father lying on the ground,

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Speaker 1: but at some point he also called his aunt, Holly,

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Speaker 1: Terry's younger sister. When Holly saw John's name on the

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Speaker 1: caller ID, she assumed he was calling to tell her

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Speaker 1: about a deer.

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Speaker 11: I'm like, Johnny, he goes Holly, Holly, and I'm like, John,

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Speaker 11: what's wrong? And he's just crying. I'm like, what happened.

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Speaker 11: He's like, Dad's dead. Dad's dead. I'm like, what, who's dead?

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Speaker 3: Dad?

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Speaker 8: My dad?

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Speaker 11: My dad is dead. And I'm like, what happened?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 11: Come home, Just come home.

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Speaker 1: Holly and her other brother, Randy, drove the forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes up to Little Falls, Minnesota. At first, Holly assumed

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Speaker 1: it was some kind of hunting accident, but the truth

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Speaker 1: was even worse and even more disturbing than she imagined.

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Speaker 1: A priest had arrived at the scene to give Terry

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Speaker 1: his last rites, but when Holly tried to go with

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Speaker 1: him to see her brother's body, the sheriff's deputies wouldn't.

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Speaker 11: Let her and they're like, uh, no, you can't go now.

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Speaker 11: I'm like, what do you mean, I can't go? You

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Speaker 11: can't go there, So we're kind of puzzled about that. Well,

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Speaker 11: at that time, they already determined that it was a homicide,

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Speaker 11: but we didn't know that because we still thought, you know,

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Speaker 11: he shot himself or whatever.

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Speaker 12: We determined that this was definitely close proximity just because

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Speaker 12: of the evidence that was located at the scene, and

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Speaker 12: we believe that there was probably some communication going back

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Speaker 12: and forth before the saving occurred.

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Speaker 1: That's Morrison County Sheriff Sean Larson, who's been in charge

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Speaker 1: of the investigation since Terry was killed in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: The investigators determined that Terry was shot at close range

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Speaker 1: by someone who saw him and likely talked to him,

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Speaker 1: but there was something strange about the crime scene, something

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Speaker 1: that didn't add up.

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Speaker 12: But that was one of the things that was a

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Speaker 12: little weird right away because his weapon was nowhere to

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Speaker 12: be found.

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Speaker 1: The family told investigators that Terry usually carried a thirty

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Speaker 1: thirty Winchester Lever gun when he went hunting, but that

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Speaker 1: gun wasn't beside the body, and so they assumed the

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Speaker 1: perpetrator had taken it. The reason didn't become clear until

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Speaker 1: a year later, when Terry's gun was found hidden beneath

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Speaker 1: a layer of leaves, nowhere close to the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: It's likely, though not certain, that Terry was carrying this

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Speaker 1: rifle as he walked through the woods. Whoever he'd met

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Speaker 1: had managed to get their hands on it, shoot him,

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Speaker 1: and run away. Their actions have echoed through the small

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Speaker 1: Minnesota community in the nearly ten years since Terry's death.

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Speaker 1: The incident has turned family and friends against one another.

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Speaker 1: It's made neighbors feel unsafe, and most tragically of all,

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Speaker 1: it's left four kids without a father they loved. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jordan Sillers and this is Blood Trails, A family's Hunt

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Speaker 1: for the truth, Part one. Terry Terrence Virgil Brisk was

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Speaker 1: born in nineteen seventy five in Little Falls, Minnesota. He

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Speaker 1: graduated from Little Falls High School in nineteen ninety three, and,

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Speaker 1: after a brief stint in the military, earned his diesel

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Speaker 1: mechanic diploma from Alexandria Vocational Technical School. Almost no one

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Speaker 1: I spoke to about Terry had anything bad to say.

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Speaker 1: He was a hard working guy who loved his kids.

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Speaker 1: The outdoors and heavy machinery.

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Speaker 6: As a person, he was a wonderful man. He was

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Speaker 6: a wonderful father. He was a great friend.

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Speaker 13: That's Terry's wife, Pam.

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Speaker 1: The pair went to high school together, but didn't really

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Speaker 1: get to know each other until after they graduated.

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Speaker 9: When we first met, it was that in wedding we

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Speaker 9: weren't even you know, we were friends and stuff like that.

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Speaker 9: We didn't really know each other a whole lot. We

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Speaker 9: hung out a few times here and there. But how

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Speaker 9: we were at a wedding and I remember real dampsing

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Speaker 9: and I went and sat on his lap, and that

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Speaker 9: was the first time I really met him.

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Speaker 1: Terry traveled quite a bit for work, but John recalls

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Speaker 1: that he always tried to make time for his kids.

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Speaker 2: His great dad, awesome dad.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he took us kids out fishing, hunting, always

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Speaker 4: took us along and being as a kid he worked

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Speaker 4: construction for my grandpa, So us kids grew up riding

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Speaker 4: around in the dumb truck with him and just being

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Speaker 4: out working with them all summer. Just went and read

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Speaker 4: his home. He was hard working. He was on the

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Speaker 4: road a lot, but when he was home, he was

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Speaker 4: home and we were always doing something.

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Speaker 1: Terry worked for many years for his father's company, King's

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Speaker 1: Way Construction. Kingsway specializes in hauling rock material for landscaping

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Speaker 1: and construction, and their gravel pit is located on the

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Speaker 1: same property where Terry was killed. That gravel pit is

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Speaker 1: an important part of the story, but we'll get to

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Speaker 1: that in a minute. When Terry died, he was working

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Speaker 1: as a diesel mechanic at a local cat dealership, a

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Speaker 1: job he got in part to spend more time with

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Speaker 1: his kids, but he still did odd jobs around the

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Speaker 1: family property.

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Speaker 6: Oh. He was a hard working, hard work and fool.

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Speaker 1: That's Scott Jelinski, Terry's childhood friend. Scott still lives in

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Speaker 1: the area, and he explained that Terry embodied the lessons

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Speaker 1: and the culture of the small Midwestern community.

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Speaker 6: We grew up that way. You were taught at a

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Speaker 6: young age.

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Speaker 14: You work, you pull your weight, you put in a

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Speaker 14: hard day's work, and that if you want to go

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Speaker 14: and enjoy yourself, you have to work hard in that.

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Speaker 14: So he definitely was a hard worker and that and

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Speaker 14: then a great father for his kids. He tried to

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Speaker 14: provide them with everything he possibly could, but.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't all work and no play. Becky Julenski, Scott's wife,

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Speaker 1: told me Terry was the best man in their wedding

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Speaker 1: and the godfather of their son. She remembers that Terry

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Speaker 1: was always quick with a laugh and a joke.

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Speaker 10: He liked the joke a lot. He always made the

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Speaker 10: joke that our fun was his and not Scott's. And yeah,

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Speaker 10: he was just a funny guy. He I don't know.

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Speaker 10: He was just somebody that you would want to all.

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Speaker 1: Scott says they didn't do much bow hunting, but they

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Speaker 1: made time every year to go out during the States

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Speaker 1: General Rifle season. They hunted that one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: two acre property from portable elevated tree stands. If Terry

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Speaker 1: was hunting in the woods, he'd take his thirty thirty.

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Speaker 1: If he was set up on the field on the

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Speaker 1: southeast corner of the property, he brought a different rifle,

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Speaker 1: chambered in a calber more suitable for a long range shot.

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Speaker 1: No matter what he was doing, whether driving a dump

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Speaker 1: truck for his father's company, fixing a back hoe for cat,

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Speaker 1: or zipping around in the snow machine, Terry prioritiz his family.

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Speaker 9: He would all been over backwards for his kids. He

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Speaker 9: did a lot for them.

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Speaker 14: He was he was.

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Speaker 9: Always there for them.

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Speaker 1: He was also close with his parents, Virgil and Francis,

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Speaker 1: and he was in constant contact with his three siblings,

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Speaker 1: who all lived in the area.

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Speaker 13: Here's Holly, We're.

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Speaker 11: All still a close family. I mean, like everybody is

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Speaker 11: in everybody's business. So I mean, I'll be working or something,

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Speaker 11: and then all of a sudden, like Terry would call

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Speaker 11: me at work just to like check in. And when

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Speaker 11: he started having the kids, I mean I was there

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Speaker 11: because it's like, oh sweet, you know, niece's nephews to spoil.

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Speaker 11: Throughout our whole years, we've all been close and we

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Speaker 11: still are.

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Speaker 1: When Terry died, his family and community were devastated. The

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Speaker 1: strange circumstances surrounding his death made it even more difficult,

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Speaker 1: but they still tried to honor his life and work

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Speaker 1: in the best way they knew how So we.

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Speaker 11: Did a procession from Peers. We went over by the

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Speaker 11: gravel pit and everybody kind of stopped, and then we

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Speaker 11: stopped one last time at Terry's place. And I've never seen.

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Speaker 15: So many cars in my life lined up, and then

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Speaker 15: my brother and my nephew they had the equipment lined

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Speaker 15: out to like, you know, to honor him. And then

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Speaker 15: we had our neighbor boy he used to work for

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Speaker 15: res and he drove the dump chuck and that was

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Speaker 15: like the lead that was Terry's truck and he brought

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Speaker 15: it just an honor for him.

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Speaker 13: Part two.

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Speaker 1: Guns and vans. Homicides are always difficult to investigate, but

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Speaker 1: this one presented special challenges. The outdoor nature of the

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Speaker 1: crime meant evidence could be destroyed or hidden by the elements,

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Speaker 1: and witnesses were few and far between. The crime scene

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Speaker 1: was also challenging to contain. John said that his mother

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Speaker 1: arrived at the scene before law enforcement got there, but

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Speaker 1: it's possible others had walked up to Terry's body in

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Speaker 1: the hours between when he was killed and when sheriff's

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Speaker 1: deputies arrived. Still, Morrison County deputies did their best. Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Larson told me they secured the scene as quickly as

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Speaker 1: they could, and they reached out to the Minnesota Bureau

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Speaker 1: of Criminal Apprehension for help with the investigation. But Morrison

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Speaker 1: County has a population of just under thirty five thousand,

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Speaker 1: so it's unusual for them to investigate this kind of murder.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, we get our share of homicides, but a lot

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Speaker 12: of it might be criminal vehicular homicide. So this case

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Speaker 12: was a little different for us. So right away we

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Speaker 12: have our own investigators that have investigated crimes like this,

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Speaker 12: it's just not that we get a big share of them.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things investigators tried to do is

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Speaker 1: establish a timeline. John found his dad around four to

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Speaker 1: twenty pm on Monday, November seventh, twenty sixteen. Terry, as

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Speaker 1: you heard, had taken the day off work and had

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Speaker 1: been out in the forest much of the day, which

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Speaker 1: gave investigators an opportunity to find people who may have

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Speaker 1: seen or spoken to him.

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Speaker 12: And you just got to remember, this is a remote

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Speaker 12: rule area. It's not like it's heavily traveled upon. But yet,

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Speaker 12: you know, we checked with people, you know, like bus

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Speaker 12: driver's mill route, things of that nature, people that would

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Speaker 12: be traveling this and try to lock everything down and

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Speaker 12: get statements immediately from surrounding neighbors. And then we just

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Speaker 12: kind of zoned it out and went miles and miles

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Speaker 12: and miles. Because the biggest thing is during hunting season,

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Speaker 12: it seems like everybody hears a shot and then they

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Speaker 12: always think amongst themselves, like, well, who was that? Which

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Speaker 12: property owner wasn't that shot? So that's where we kind

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Speaker 12: of get a lot of our information too.

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Speaker 1: Initially, as they were speaking to those neighbors, they found

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Speaker 1: one who not only heard a shot, but had spoken

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Speaker 1: to Terry as he was walking the property earlier that day.

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Speaker 12: We did talk to a neighbor who was actually hunting

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Speaker 12: that same day. Terry, he did talk to this neighbor

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Speaker 12: and she gave us a statement and she said, yep,

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Speaker 12: I talked to him. He said he was all going

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Speaker 12: to be cleaning stands. It was a little weird. She

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Speaker 12: didn't see a rifle with them at that point. But again,

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Speaker 12: we're trying to recall memory, and you know, sometimes you

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Speaker 12: don't see and will remember certain things.

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Speaker 1: This neighbor said that around two o'clock that afternoon, she

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Speaker 1: was rolling some garbage bins to the end of her

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Speaker 1: driveway when she heard a gunshot. Of course, if you've

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Speaker 1: ever been pretty much anywhere in the Midwest on the

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Speaker 1: third day of deer season, it's not uncommon to hear

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Speaker 1: rifle shots, but most deer are betted down by two pm,

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Speaker 1: especially on a balmy sixty two degree November afternoon, Any shot,

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Speaker 1: especially one just across the property line, would have been noteworthy.

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Speaker 1: If this was in fact the shot that killed Terry,

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Speaker 1: he could have been lying in the forest for more

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Speaker 1: than two hours before he was found. This presented a

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Speaker 1: real challenge for investigators, but it was especially heartbreaking for

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Speaker 1: Terry's mother, who was driving the nearby roads that afternoon.

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Speaker 11: I mean, I my mom just feels guilty enough that

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Speaker 11: that day they were in the pit driving around. She's like,

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Speaker 11: my son laying in the woods dead and I didn't

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Speaker 11: do anything about it. And it's like, Mom, you couldn't

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Speaker 11: have done anything about it, but she It kills her

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Speaker 11: inside and it's taken a toll on the family big time.

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Speaker 1: That gap between when Terry died and when he was

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Speaker 1: found gave the perpetrator plenty of time to cover up

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Speaker 1: his or her crimes. The first thing they did was

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Speaker 1: hide the murder weapon. In this case, that was a

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Speaker 1: Winchester Model ninety four, a lever gun chambered in thirty

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Speaker 1: thirty Winchester. The AE stands for angle eject and it

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Speaker 1: was introduced by the gun company in nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 1: As you heard the sheriff mentioned, there is some question

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Speaker 1: about whether Terry had his gun with him as he

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Speaker 1: walked through the woods. The neighbor didn't remember seeing it,

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Speaker 1: but it's possible she forgot or he just didn't have

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Speaker 1: it at that moment. The sheriff and his deputies thought

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Speaker 1: it was unlikely that a deer hunter would walk his

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Speaker 1: own property during the season without his rifle, so they

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Speaker 1: scoured the woods in search of that weapon.

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Speaker 12: They thought it was very odd, you know, that it

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Speaker 12: wasn't on his person or nearby. So when we locked

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Speaker 12: the scene down, we did a article search with a

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Speaker 12: canine looking for that rifle. It wasn't located. The next morning,

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Speaker 12: I contacted local fire departments to come out and they

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Speaker 12: did a shoulder to shoulder search pushing that property. Rifle

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Speaker 12: still was unlocated.

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Speaker 1: They continued to search for the rifle, but Sheriff Larsen

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Speaker 1: told me that the fall leaves were knee high in

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Speaker 1: some areas. They knew that even if the gun was

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Speaker 1: somewhere in those woods and not in the nearby Mississippi

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Speaker 1: River or one of a thousand lakes and ponds, it

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Speaker 1: would be difficult to find until those leaves began to decompose.

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Speaker 13: And they were right.

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Speaker 12: It was till the next spring. All these leaves and

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Speaker 12: everything's kind of matted down now. So we went back

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Speaker 12: out and we pushed that scene, and one of our investigators,

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Speaker 12: along with a BCA investigator, were able to locate the rifle.

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Speaker 1: The sheriff hasn't said publicly where the rifle was found, but.

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Speaker 12: I can tell you it was nowhere near where Terry's

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Speaker 12: body was.

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Speaker 1: The location of the murder weapon is obviously significant, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know exactly how. If it was found on

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Speaker 1: a neighboring property, that might implicate whoever owned or lived

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Speaker 1: on that property, but that's not necessarily true. The murderer

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Speaker 1: may have simply thrown it away while fleeing the scene,

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Speaker 1: not hidden it somewhere. In particular, the crime lab at

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Speaker 1: the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension wasn't able to garner any

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Speaker 1: clues from the rifle besides what you already heard that

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Speaker 1: it was Terry's gun and it.

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Speaker 13: Was used to kill him.

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Speaker 1: That evidence was enough to dispel other rumors that John

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Speaker 1: had shot him accidentally, or that he'd been hit with

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Speaker 1: a stray bullet, or there was a sniper hiding in

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Speaker 1: one of the property's tree stands, which Sheriff Larson says,

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Speaker 1: was an actual theory that spread around town. None of

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Speaker 1: those things happened. Terry was shot at close range with

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Speaker 1: that rifle. This knowledge allowed investigators to formulate a few

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Speaker 1: possible scenarios. If Terry had his gun with him, the

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Speaker 1: murderer either wrestled the gun away from him, grabbed it

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Speaker 1: without Terry's consent, or somehow convinced the hunter to hand

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Speaker 1: over the weapon. But if Terry wasn't carrying that rifle

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Speaker 1: that day in the woods, it suggested a much darker explanation,

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Speaker 1: one that will dive into later in the episode. But

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Speaker 1: finding the murder weapon wasn't enough to prove who killed Terry.

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Speaker 1: The case teetered on the brink of obscurity until twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, when Sheriff Larsen announced the second major development

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Speaker 1: in this case.

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Speaker 12: I can tell you there was a blue van that

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Speaker 12: was spotted in the area for sure. Three maybe up

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Speaker 12: to five people saw this blue van in this area

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Speaker 12: during that time time frame, and when we were able

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Speaker 12: to come up with that better timeline, we could prove

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Speaker 12: that that van was in the area during this incident.

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Speaker 12: When Terry's phone shows that all activities ceased. That's the

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Speaker 12: same timeframe that we're seeing this blue van by witnesses,

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Speaker 12: so it's very concerning to us. We pushed that out

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Speaker 12: on a few releases and we're looking for more information

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Speaker 12: regarding that.

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Speaker 1: Holly told me investigators had heard about this blue van

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Speaker 1: in the week's following Terry's death, but for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: they waited until twenty twenty two to ask for the

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Speaker 1: public's help identifying its whereabouts. The sheriff said it was

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Speaker 1: spotted at the gate that leads into the property and

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Speaker 1: then traveling away from the property.

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Speaker 12: Sometime later, one person said it was at the approach

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Speaker 12: off Hawthorne Road. They didn't see anybody, but they saw

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Speaker 12: the van, and it would be right in our time

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Speaker 12: frame as to when Terry would have been killed. Another

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Speaker 12: witness came forward and said they saw a blue van

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Speaker 12: and they said it was traveling kind of away from

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Speaker 12: the scene on Hawthorne Road, going towards Jewel Road and

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Speaker 12: then heading back Northboune.

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Speaker 1: The Sheriff's office received additional tips about this van after

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Speaker 1: they put out their press release, and there's one important

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Speaker 1: detail that has never been publicly confirmed before now, but

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Speaker 1: we'll get to in a minute, but as far as

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Speaker 1: most people were concerned, this investigation appeared to have stalled.

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Speaker 1: That was the last major update in the case, and

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Speaker 1: the sheriff has been forced to appeal to the Little

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Speaker 1: Falls community for help.

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Speaker 12: This is an attack on his way of life, on

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Speaker 12: our way of life, So this is an attack to everybody.

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Speaker 12: So we just want answers, We want accountability, We want

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Speaker 12: this person brought to justice, and we want to move on,

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Speaker 12: but we can't do that until the community gives us

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Speaker 12: a little help.

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Speaker 1: After the break, we dive into some of the theories

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Speaker 1: about what happened in those woods. Was Terry killed by

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Speaker 1: a stranger, a trespasser, a neighbor, or is it possible

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Speaker 1: he was killed by a member of his own family.

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Speaker 13: That's next on Blood Trails, Part three.

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Speaker 1: Rumors and Theories. If you've ever been part of a

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Speaker 1: small town, a small church, or a small school, you

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Speaker 1: can predict what happened in the years following Terry's murder.

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Speaker 1: The vacuum left by the unsolved case was filled by rumors, gossip,

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Speaker 1: and hearsay. Some of these theories were more plausible than others,

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Speaker 1: but they were all incredibly painful to the brisk family.

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Speaker 13: Especially the kids.

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Speaker 11: The kids aren't dumb. I mean they hear stuff. I

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Speaker 11: feel terrible for the stuff they had to go through.

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Speaker 11: Like at school, everybody looking at him like, oh, even

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Speaker 11: my one nephew. He went to Little Fallows versus peers

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Speaker 11: and kids were asking him like what did your uncles

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Speaker 11: shoot him himself? Why do you kill himself? And I

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Speaker 11: mean Pat's sitting there defending himself that he didn't shoot himself.

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Speaker 11: He was killed.

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Speaker 1: The kids had to face these rumors at school, and

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Speaker 1: Terry's parents had to face them everywhere else, and it

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Speaker 1: hasn't stopped in the nearly ten years since their son died.

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Speaker 11: It seems like everybody in Morrison, Conye Little Falls area,

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Speaker 11: they all know what happened, but we don't. Sometimes it

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Speaker 11: feels like they're blaming us that we did it. And

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Speaker 11: that's how we like feel sometimes like we feel guilty

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Speaker 11: when we do stuff because Terry's not with us. He's

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Speaker 11: you know, six feet under even to this day, like

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Speaker 11: you know, you go to the store or whatever, like

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Speaker 11: especially my mom and dad, like I mean they're you know,

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Speaker 11: no one in the community and stuff, and he go

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Speaker 11: there and it's just like people just stare and it's

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Speaker 11: just like, just tell us what you think, because you're

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Speaker 11: probably thinking the same thing as us.

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Speaker 1: What Holly is referencing is one of the most common

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Speaker 1: and persistent rooms about this case, that Pam Terry's wife

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Speaker 1: had something to do with his death.

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Speaker 16: You know, everybody pretty much figured right away that it

439
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 16: was her. I mean, it was no doubt in anybody's

440
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 16: mind in the family that it was her. He wanted

441
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 16: to divorce her, and there was no way that she

442
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 16: was gonna let that happen because she had a sweet life.

443
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: That's Michelle Mannick, a cousin of the Brisks on their

444
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: mom's side. She's convinced that Pam was involved, and she

445
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: claims the rumor is common in the area. She lives

446
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: in a different part of Minnesota, but she says she

447
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: once ran into a stranger from Little Falls who repeated

448
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: the rumor back to her.

449
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 17: I said, well, that's where my cousins are from. And

450
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 17: then I said, you know how that was my cousin

451
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 17: that had got murdered And he said, oh, you mean

452
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 17: the one that his wife shot him? And I was like,

453
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 17: how does everybody know this? But like nobody seems to

454
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 17: be And he said, oh, that's just common. I mean,

455
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 17: anybody in the airying does pretty much go anywhere, go

456
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 17: anywhere in the area and ask anybody, And that's what

457
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 17: anybody who's been to tell you.

458
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat everything Michelle told me, but

459
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: the gist of her argument is that Pam and Terry

460
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: were having marital issues and Terry wanted to get a divorce,

461
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: but they just built a new house and Pam wasn't

462
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: about to let that happen. So, whether it was premeditated

463
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: or the result of a heated argument, Pam either killed

464
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: her husband or had someone else do it. That's the

465
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: theory anyway. And I want to reiterate that no one,

466
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: not Pam or anyone else, has ever been charged with

467
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: this crime or named as a suspect. Not everyone agrees

468
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: with Michelle, and there are other equally plausible theories that

469
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: we'll get to in a minute, but the spouse is

470
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 1: often the first person of interest in a murder investigation,

471
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: and Michelle isn't the only family member who has this theory.

472
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 11: I don't know if she pulled the trigger. Yes, my

473
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 11: family feels that she's somehow tied to it. Because only

474
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 11: a few people knew Terry was off that day.

475
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: The Brisks didn't always get along with our daughter in

476
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: law even before Terry was killed, so the family's accusation

477
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: should be taken with a grain of salt. But without

478
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: any answer from law enforcement, Holly can't help but look

479
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: back on what happened with suspicion. For instance, Jay, Terry's

480
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: older brother, spoke to Terry on the phone the day

481
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: he was killed.

482
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 11: Jay kind of said Terry's voice was like kind of

483
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 11: horse and stuff, and I know, I mean, Terry and

484
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 11: Pam were having issues, but we didn't realize how bad

485
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 11: of issues, you know, they thought and stuff and families

486
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 11: see that. But Jay's like, yeah, his voice was hoarse,

487
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 11: and I didn't really talk to him that much longer,

488
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 11: so I'm like, okay, you must have been, you know,

489
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 11: yelling and something.

490
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: Becky Jelinski, the wife of Terry's childhood friend, told me

491
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: that Terry seemed out of sorts at an anniversary party

492
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: a few weeks prior. Both she and Holly believed Terry

493
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: was struggling with something, and Holly believes that something may

494
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: have been Pam. Terry was upset in the hours before

495
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: he died, but Holly claims that in the hours after

496
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: Pam acted oddly nonchalant, one moment sticks out in her mind.

497
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: Terry's four kids were all upstairs in her room with Holly.

498
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: Some were crying, some were still in shock, So Holly

499
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: asked Pam to come up and comfort them.

500
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 11: So I went downstairs and I told Pam. I'm like, hey,

501
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 11: he come up. I said, the kids are really kind

502
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 11: of upset and stuff. And to this day, after she

503
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 11: hugged them, it's still in my brain. She's like, you

504
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 11: guys were gonna be okay, we can do this, you know,

505
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 11: kind of like we miss dad. But she's like, okay,

506
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 11: let's go back downstairs. Now there's people here for us.

507
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 11: And I'm like, what, don't make these kids go talk

508
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 11: to people.

509
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: Of course, none of this is evidence of wrongdoing. Terry's

510
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: voice could have been hoarse for a million other reasons,

511
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: and it's impossible to draw any firm conclusions about how

512
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: a person responds to that level of tragedy. But there

513
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: is one piece of evidence that, according to Holly and Michelle,

514
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: links Pam to the crime scene. Both women told me

515
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 1: that Terry's mother was driving the roads around where her

516
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: son was hunting the day of the end incident, and

517
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: she noticed something strange.

518
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 17: And as she was coming home, she said it was

519
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 17: very weird to her because she was wondering, like, why

520
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 17: was Pam's van parked where Terry hunt?

521
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: Remember the blue van Sheriff Larsen is so interested in.

522
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: Turns out Pam and Terry had a blue van at

523
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: the time Terry was killed. Jerff Larsen didn't mention this

524
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: in our first interview, but he confirmed it to me

525
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: in an email when I asked him about it later.

526
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 11: Terry's van was distinctive. It was an otter blue and

527
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 11: it always had like a decal thing like on the side.

528
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 11: And as they were coming up towards the pit, they're like, well,

529
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 11: where the hell is she going? And as they approached

530
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 11: it more and Laura looked like Terry's van and they're like, well, whatever,

531
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 11: you know, must maybe drop, you know, one of the

532
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 11: kids off or something hunting, you don't know.

533
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: Terry's father was also in the car, and the couple

534
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: watched the van drive north towards Terry and Pam's house

535
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: about a half mile away. They had planned to visit

536
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: their grandchildren that day, but they passed the school bus

537
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: and decided to say hi as the kids got home

538
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: from school.

539
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 11: But when they pulled in, the van was parked in

540
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 11: a different spot than normal. It wasn't in its normal

541
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 11: spot because I mean two, everybody has like a designated

542
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 11: spot when you go.

543
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: This suggested to the Brisks that it had been Pam's

544
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: van that they saw near the hunting property, and she

545
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: was the one driving it. What's more, according to the sheriff,

546
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: they weren't the only ones to report spying a blue

547
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: van in the area on the afternoon Terry was killed.

548
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: Whether this is the same van is unclear, but taken

549
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: in total, it paints what seems like a bleak picture. Pam,

550
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: according to the family, had a motive for wanting Terry gone,

551
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: was behaving strangely before and after the incident, and her

552
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: blue van was seen in the area. The same blue van,

553
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office has said, is important to this case.

554
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: Only the killer knows exactly what happened in those woods.

555
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: But holly thing, it's possible that Terry and Pam got

556
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: into something heated.

557
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 11: I think he got approached by somebody and I don't know.

558
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 11: I think they had some arguments and the way Terry

559
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 11: is and how we are is Yeah, to a point,

560
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 11: you just you get so pissed off, you just, you know,

561
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 11: probably screaming and yelling. And I don't know if they

562
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 11: somehow got the gun from Terry or he's like here,

563
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 11: do me in here, take my gun, just do me,

564
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 11: you know that type of stuff, because that's kind of

565
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 11: like how we blow up and then whatever happened after that,

566
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 11: no clue.

567
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: When you hear everything laid out like that, it sounds

568
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: pretty convincing, But there are always always two sides to

569
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: every story and more than one way to explain inexplicable circumstances.

570
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: For example, while John and Pam admitted that the family

571
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: had a blue van at the time Terry was killed,

572
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: John offered an alternative explanation of his father's death, and

573
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: one that I think is pretty convincing.

574
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 7: I think somebody was on the property that wasn't supposed

575
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 7: to be on the property, and they were confronted and

576
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 7: they didn't like how things were going. And I don't

577
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 7: know if there's an altercation out there where they had

578
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 7: gotten the gun from him or what, or if it

579
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 7: was somebody ambushed him while he was walking through the woods.

580
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 7: But the highly doubt that. It's just I believe he

581
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: confronted somebody that was out there that was not supposed to.

582
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 6: Be out there.

583
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: This theory isn't as far fetched as it might sound.

584
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: As you've heard several times, there was a gravel pit

585
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 1: on the property Terry was hunting. I was told by

586
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: the sheriff, as well as Terry's family and friends that

587
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: trespassors would frequently come into the pit to look for agates,

588
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: which are a kind of colorful banded courts. Scotchlinski. Terry's

589
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: childhood friend, told me they caught trespassers on the property

590
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: all the time, So.

591
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 18: It wasn't uncommon to pull in there and there's a

592
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 18: car sitting at the gate, or there would be some

593
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 18: body walking way up on the top of the next

594
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 18: still over as you were rolling in, and I just

595
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 18: think he come upon somebody sneaking through the woods there

596
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 18: on detected to go do whatever they did back there,

597
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 18: and he just happened to be walking to a stand

598
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 18: and caught him and it turned into a scuffle, and yeah,

599
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 18: unfortunately he had to lose his life over the deal.

600
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 1: John told me he's reported trespassers to the Sheriff's Department

601
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: on multiple occasions. Some of the trespassers are repeat offenders,

602
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: but he's never recognized anyone from the community. He assumes

603
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: they see the gravel pit on Google Maps and think

604
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: it might be a good place to look for agates

605
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: and then take a stroll through the woods. One time,

606
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: someone even stole their deer stands. I asked Scott whether

607
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: Terry would ever get angry with trespassers, and he said

608
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: the situations could sometimes escalate.

609
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 18: You would get very, very pissed off at people because

610
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 18: it's like they have no reason to be there, and

611
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 18: they're like, well, I'm just all for a nature walk

612
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 18: or I'm just I'm looking for agates. So they would

613
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 18: try and tell you all the excuses of why, well,

614
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 18: I'm just looking around, and it's like, no, get the

615
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 18: heck out of here.

616
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 6: This is private property.

617
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 18: You're not supposed to be here, and they would get

618
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 18: hostile with you, and so you would definitely have to

619
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 18: try and use some force to get him out of

620
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 18: there without actually getting physical. But I could foresee it,

621
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 18: you know, well, the person obviously decided.

622
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 6: Nope, I'm gonna confront this and we're going to fight this.

623
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 14: And well, it happened, a gun went off, and you know,

624
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 14: he ended up dying.

625
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: Holly confirmed that they would frequently find trespassers at the

626
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: gravel pit, but she isn't sure why someone would be

627
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: walking through the woods where.

628
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 13: Terry was found.

629
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: She also wonders if there was some kind of fight,

630
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: why she's never heard about Terry having defensive wounds on

631
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: his body.

632
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 11: Because I mean, if they really got into it, they

633
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 11: should have shown some kind of struggle or something with

634
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 11: Terry on his body. But I don't think there was

635
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 11: like bloody knuckles or like that type of stuff. So

636
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 11: I mean, I don't think he got where he could

637
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 11: get in a fight, and he's not going to hand.

638
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 11: Somebody is gone.

639
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: I asked Sarah Flarsen whether Terry's body showed any signs

640
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: of a struggle, but he declined to comment to protect

641
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: the integrity of the investigation. We also don't know whether

642
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: Terry was shot from the front or behind, or which

643
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: part of his body the bullet hit. For his part,

644
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: John doesn't know exactly what happened to his father, but

645
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: he is adamant that his mother wasn't involved.

646
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 7: I don't think my mother had a single thing to

647
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 7: do with it.

648
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 5: The thing is is it's a rumor.

649
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 19: And to be honest with you, my grandparents on my

650
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 19: dad's side and my mom.

651
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 5: They haven't always gotten along.

652
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 8: I've heard my grandmother say it before, she's thought it,

653
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 8: and it's just I don't believe it one bit.

654
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 5: It's just it's ridiculous.

655
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 7: My mother loved my father. Yes, they didn't see eyed

656
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 7: eye on everything.

657
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 8: They would occasionally have their fights, but my mother's not

658
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 8: capable of anything like this.

659
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: Pam herself denies having had anything to do with her

660
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: husband's death. She admits that they had marital troubles on

661
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: and off throughout their relationship, but she denies that they

662
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: were on the road to divorce.

663
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 9: Yes, for years we were having issues. We were working

664
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 9: things out. I think for the sake of the kids.

665
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 9: We were trying to better both of ourselves to you know,

666
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 9: we didn't want to fall apart, you know. I mean, yeah,

667
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 9: we had talked about it, but I know neither one

668
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 9: of us. We would have never been able to break

669
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 9: the bond between the two of us, if that makes sense.

670
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: Pam believes the brisks long standing dislike of her made

671
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 1: her a natural scapegoat. For their son's death.

672
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 9: I know they've suspected me for a long time. I

673
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 9: know they hate me. The nasty things that they've done

674
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 9: to me prove it that they don't want me around,

675
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 9: and so I think sometimes they just blame me and

676
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 9: want me to be the culprit of it. Also that

677
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 9: they can have everything that I have and have everything

678
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 9: of Terry's, but they can blame me all they want.

679
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 9: I wasn't there. There's nothing I could have done.

680
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: She does blame herself for one thing. She told me

681
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: she was babysitting a neighbor's child the day Terry was killed,

682
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: so she wasn't able to go hunting with him that day.

683
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 9: My part was the fact that, you know, we I

684
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 9: wanted to go and sit with him for a while,

685
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 9: but with the baby here, I the con't in. So yeah,

686
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 9: there's a bunch of times where I wish I would

687
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,959
Speaker 9: have been able to go out there, and maybe things

688
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 9: would have been a lot different.

689
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: As for the blue minivan, Pam admits to having a

690
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: blue van at the time her husband was killed, but

691
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: she denies being in the area around the time he died,

692
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: and she questions the truthfulness of the witnesses.

693
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 9: Well, I, yes, I did have a blue minivan at

694
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 9: the time. Yes, we live what is it two miles

695
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 9: not even two miles down the road. Yes, I was

696
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 9: there at one moment when I drive to Jonathan off.

697
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 9: But that was about the only time I've heard of

698
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 9: people that have heard who have seen it, and I

699
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 9: know his parents were one of them, so that I

700
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 9: do not take an account.

701
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 6: I do not believe them.

702
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Of course, the elder Brisks weren't the only ones to

703
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: have reported seeing a blue Minivanjriff F. Larson told me

704
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: that at least three people reported the same thing, but

705
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: those witnesses have never been publicly named, and some of

706
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: them came forward years after the incident occurred. John also

707
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: pointed out that since Pam lived just down the road,

708
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been unusual for her to be driving

709
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: around the area, even though she told me she never

710
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: left the house that afternoon because she was babysitting her

711
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: neighbor's child. Sheriff Larsen thinks he knows who killed Terry.

712
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: He's keeping that suspicion close to his vest, but he

713
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: is willing to speculate in more general terms.

714
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 12: They've had problems with trespassers in the past. You've got

715
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 12: to remember, this is a gravel pit. People like to

716
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 12: pick agots. And I was told that Terry would be

717
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 12: strng or and if he needed to kick people off

718
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 12: the property, which he should, you know, So that's one scenario.

719
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 12: Did he come across a trespasser and you know, was

720
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 12: there like an argument that ensued, and did the suspect

721
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 12: somehow get his weapon and shoot him and flee that happened.

722
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 12: The other thing we talked about is could this be

723
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 12: a very close family member, Could it be a friend.

724
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 12: Could it be someone very close that he trusted this

725
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 12: person to get within reach of his rifle. And if

726
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 12: that's the case, it's kind of easy to figure out

727
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 12: what could have happened from there. So those are kind

728
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 12: of our theories. Doesn't mean they're the only theories, but

729
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 12: those are the two that kind of stand out for us.

730
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 13: Part four tragedy.

731
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: In a case like this, it's easy to get so

732
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: caught up in the who done it that you forget

733
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: about the real human being involved. But the truth is

734
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: a murder is often just the first step in a

735
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: much larger tragedy.

736
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 12: He loved his family, you know, He's got a wife

737
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 12: and four kids, and he loved taking them on adventures.

738
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 12: There's some pictures that I saw circulating where he was

739
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 12: taking his kids out hunting and just kind of introducing

740
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 12: him to the land. So this is what he loved

741
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 12: to do, and for someone to take that away from him,

742
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 12: it's not right.

743
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: The hours after Terry was killed are a blur for John,

744
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: But the one thing that sticks out in his mind

745
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: is his little brother, who was only five or six

746
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: years old at the time.

747
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 5: But I just remembered my little brother, who I mean,

748
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 5: I kind of feel bad for him because he didn't

749
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 5: really help with that much time with my dad, but

750
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 5: he really didn't understand what was going on. He just

751
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 5: was crying because he's seating. Everybody else kind of in

752
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 5: enough shape, and he hadn't like, yeah, what was actually

753
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 5: going on.

754
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: The impact of Terry's death on his children reverberated out

755
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: from that moment, and Holly says none of them have

756
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: really had a chance to grieve, and certainly not as

757
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: a united family. The kids saw less of their grandparents

758
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: Terry's parents in the years after his death. Holly blames

759
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: Pam and believes it speaks to her guilty conscience. But

760
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: if your in laws accuse you of murder, it makes

761
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 1: sense that you'd want to give them a wide berth.

762
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: Pam claims that her in laws would take the kids

763
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: for visits without telling her, and she characterizes their actions

764
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: as unnecessarily vindictive. But here's the thing about family infighting,

765
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: whether it's justified or not, no matter who is in

766
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: the right, it has the biggest impact on the kids.

767
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 7: I mean, I thought, you know, something like this happening.

768
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 8: It would kind of bring our family together more, But

769
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 8: it turns out it just pushed us away even further.

770
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 7: You know, us kids are sitting.

771
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 8: Here and we're constantly being torn and from one side

772
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 8: of the family to the other.

773
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 6: Side of the family.

774
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 19: Kind of tough when everybody's turning in their backs on

775
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 19: each other and fighting amongst each other instead of we

776
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 19: all loved my dad, but we're going to sit here and.

777
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 13: Fight about it.

778
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 8: Against each other, which I don't understand how that why

779
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 8: that way.

780
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 1: The unsolved nature of this case has suspended the family

781
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: in limbo, encased in the rock of their suspicions, unable

782
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 1: to move on. Holly still keeps a trace of her

783
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: mother from that day. Something she's left untouched.

784
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 11: I still have that voice message from her. I've never

785
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 11: played it, but I just yeah, I never deleted it,

786
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 11: and I can know exactly what it was.

787
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: Terry himself foreshadowed the way his death would harden his

788
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: family against one another, and how the kids would be

789
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: at the center of that controversy. A granite company had

790
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: ordered a piece of rock from the Brisks gravel pit,

791
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 1: and the Saturday before he died, Terry went down with

792
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: his brother and their kids to get it loaded in

793
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: the truck.

794
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 11: Well, the weird thing is is Terry loaded his gravestone rock.

795
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 11: The last pictures of Terry are like, is in the equipment,

796
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 11: like in his hunting outfit, and then Robin just happened

797
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 11: to do a zoom in and Terry is walking with

798
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 11: Mike and they're both like in their little you know,

799
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 11: orange and and he's holding his hand and they're walking.

800
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 11: That's that's what hurts so bad, because those kids, Oh

801
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 11: my gosh, it's hard, but we just we just want

802
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 11: answers so bad. It's i mean, going on nine years,

803
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 11: come on.

804
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: In February of twenty twenty three, John updated his profile

805
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: picture on Facebook. He'd killed a buck and dragged it

806
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: in front of a memorial to Terry the family had

807
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: built using that gravestone rock. The deer is a nice

808
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: eight point Minnesota buck, and it nearly matches the illustration

809
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: of a buck that adorns the stone.

810
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 13: To some, bringing a.

811
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: Dead animal to a place that memorializes your father might

812
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: seem like an odd tribute. But knowing how much Terry

813
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 1: loved hunting, and more importantly, how much he loved as kids,

814
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: I think he'd be delighted to see his oldest boy's

815
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: latest success in the woods. Part five, New Leads, Old Trails.

816
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: I first heard about Terry's case back in twenty twenty

817
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: three when the Morrison County Sheriff's office made what seemed

818
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: like an encouraging announcement.

819
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 12: The Morrison County Sheriff's Office just announced they've recovered more

820
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 12: digital evidence in the case.

821
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 16: The sheriff now using new technology to retest evidence in

822
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 16: the case, hoping to bring in new leads.

823
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Those new investigative techniques haven't solved the case, but they

824
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: have provided evidence that could one day be critical in court.

825
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: Terry had his phone with him when he was shot,

826
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: but investigators have only recently been able to extract more

827
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: helpful information from that data.

828
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 12: What we found out is that it could actually show

829
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 12: us a timeline when all activities seem to cease, and

830
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 12: it would actually give us a little bit better as

831
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 12: far as maybe the route and location and GPS coordinates

832
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 12: and stuff like that. So it really paints a picture

833
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 12: for us, but we didn't have that right away.

834
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: New technology has offered a better sense of the timeline

835
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: and location of the people involved, but investigators have also

836
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: relied on good old fashioned police work. They've interviewed persons

837
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: of interest, they've spoken to neighbors and friends, and they

838
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: continue to follow up on new information. If you think

839
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: you might know anything about this case, no matter how trivial,

840
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: Jriff Larsen asks that you give him a call at

841
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: three two zero six three two nine two three three.

842
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 12: Even if they hear something on this podcast that might

843
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 12: be secondhand information, or they think they heard a story

844
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 12: but it really maybe they think it doesn't apply, we

845
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 12: still want to hear it and we still want to

846
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 12: be able to kind of look it over and figure

847
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 12: out what we can do with that, because we want

848
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 12: to follow up on every tip.

849
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: Again, that number is three two zero six three two

850
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: nine two three three, and we'll post it to this

851
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: episode's case file at the meat eater dot com slash

852
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: blood Trails.

853
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 13: Bringing this case to a close.

854
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: Would mean the world to everyone on both sides of

855
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: Terry's family.

856
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 9: I think it would finally close the gap in my

857
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 9: heart on what really happened to Terry.

858
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 6: I would just like to know. I would like to

859
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 6: know why.

860
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 9: It would be a nice peace of mind to finally

861
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 9: have somebody caught in, somebody tell us the reasoning, Oh

862
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 9: why they did it.

863
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 6: I missed him tremendously. I do every day. There isn't

864
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 6: a day gole buy that.

865
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 9: That I do not think of him.

866
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: There's currently a thirty thousand dollars reward for anyone who

867
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: presents information that leads to the arrest and conviction of

868
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: the person responsible. Whether that person is motivated by money

869
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: or goodwill, or both. Holly believes it's a long past

870
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: time for anyone who knows something to come forward. Finding

871
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: her brother's killer would not only give the family the

872
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: answers they so desperately want, it could also begin a

873
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: healing process that's never really begun.

874
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 11: Please speak up for the family so we can get

875
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 11: the answers. We haven't grieved because we have no answers yet.

876
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Blood Trails. If

877
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Speaker 1: you'd like to see images from this case, head over

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Speaker 1: to the meeater dot com slash blood Trails and click on.

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Speaker 13: The case file.

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Speaker 1: For this episode, we've posted images of Terry John and

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Speaker 1: his deer, the gravel pit, and some brisk family photos.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who agreed to be interviewed for this episode.

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Speaker 1: If you have a tip about this case or another

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Speaker 1: case you think we should cover, send us an email

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Speaker 1: at blood Trails at the meeater dot com. That's b

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Speaker 1: l o O D T R A I L S

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Speaker 1: at the meteater dot com. See you next time, and

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Speaker 1: stay safe out there.

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Speaker 6: H