Speaker 1: From the heart where innovation, money and power Collie in
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, Nbon. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde
Speaker 1: and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: And Karine Hyde at Bloomgg's Worlds headquarters in New York, Man.
Speaker 3: I'm Tim Stanevek in for Ed Ludlow. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: Coming up full reaction to Tesla's shareholder meeting as the
Speaker 2: majority do back Musk's fifty six billion dollar pay package.
Speaker 3: Well, it's Adobe share surging on the company's sales out look,
Speaker 3: how is AI driving demand?
Speaker 2: And we head to the G seven meeting in Italy
Speaker 2: as the Pope one's on artificial intelligence. But first let's
Speaker 2: checking on these markets. And it's a day where some
Speaker 2: lackluster economic data here in the US when it comes
Speaker 2: to consumer sentiment really dials in and wratchets up some
Speaker 2: of the risk on risk off concerns that we've got
Speaker 2: happening in Europe at the moment as we worry about
Speaker 2: the French political situation. Now as that flat we're holding
Speaker 2: up relatively well, just down by some three points. The
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred and fared a little bit worse,
Speaker 2: and we're seeing the cat forty absolutely slump at the moment.
Speaker 2: I'm a shame there can't bring you a percentage number
Speaker 2: on it. But in fact, we've wiped out about two
Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars worth of market capitalization throughout the week
Speaker 2: in France. That's basically the size of the Greek economy
Speaker 2: all gone. Why because we are worrying about the political
Speaker 2: situation about Macron, about what that might mean for France
Speaker 2: even in the EU. A lot being dissected in Europe
Speaker 2: at the moment, and indeed in the tic situation there too.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at euro just off by five tens of
Speaker 2: percent almost. Let's move on and have a look what's
Speaker 2: happening in the cryptosphere though, because look, it's not risk
Speaker 2: off everywhere, and actually we're seeing Bitcoin managing to steady
Speaker 2: at about four tens percent higher, small moves for a
Speaker 2: relatively volatile asset class, but we're still only at sixty
Speaker 2: nine hundred and thirty seven. Maybe a bit of a
Speaker 2: dial back in what has been never ending money moving
Speaker 2: into some of these ETFs. But tim what are you watching.
Speaker 3: I'm watching shares of Adobe and there is no dial
Speaker 3: back going on it there. Look at the shares having
Speaker 3: their best day going all the way back to twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: This after the company did report earnings after the belt
Speaker 3: yesterday that said that they beat on the top line,
Speaker 3: they beat on the bottom line. They raised their profit
Speaker 3: forecast for the fiscal year as well. But it's this
Speaker 3: one metric that has everybody really excited. Digital Media net
Speaker 3: new annual recurring revenue projections for that part of the
Speaker 3: business did come in above estimates for their current quarter.
Speaker 3: We're going to have much more on Adobe coming up
Speaker 3: a little later in the program, and I do also
Speaker 3: want to check in on what's going on with shares
Speaker 3: of Tesla today because it is the day after that
Speaker 3: shareholder meeting and it is official that fifty six billion
Speaker 3: dollars pay package was approved by shareholders. We also saw
Speaker 3: the company shareholders vote on approving in corporation to the
Speaker 3: state of Texas from Delaware. That move actually already happening
Speaker 3: according to paperwork filed after the meeting. Also some board
Speaker 3: news coming out of the meeting. We saw Elon Musk's
Speaker 3: little brother, Kimball Musk, get reelected to the board James
Speaker 3: Murdoch as well. Still shares of Tech lower on the
Speaker 3: day today and down about twenty eight percent so far
Speaker 3: this year. Well, earlier today we heard from Ark invest
Speaker 3: Tasha Kini on that pay package.
Speaker 4: You have to look at the Tesla results here, right,
Speaker 4: I mean, when you're talking about the pay package, that
Speaker 4: the stock has risen over one thousand percent over that
Speaker 4: time period. So he's really delivered shareholder value.
Speaker 5: And I'm again so excited.
Speaker 4: For the future because we're really on the cusp.
Speaker 2: Of autonomous driving today.
Speaker 3: For more, let's bring in at Bloomberg's mask Chaff guineas
Speaker 3: here in our studios in New York. So Max, I
Speaker 3: want to start with that pay package look largely symbolic.
Speaker 3: We've talked about this a lot over the last couple
Speaker 3: of weeks, but seventy two percent approval, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: showing that Elon Musk has the support of shareholders absolutely.
Speaker 6: We know we've talked about all the challenges, all the
Speaker 6: craziness around Elon Musk, and at the end of the day,
Speaker 6: the difference in this vote versus the one that happened
Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen just one percentage point.
Speaker 5: So it doesn't.
Speaker 6: Appear that Elon Musk has lost some huge constituency of support.
Speaker 6: I do think the conditions have changed to some extent,
Speaker 6: and there are the you know, the reasons for concern remain.
Speaker 6: But certainly this was a victory lab for Elon Musk
Speaker 6: and he acted like it.
Speaker 2: Hot down, I love you guys, is how he jumped
Speaker 2: onto stage, the krescendos of calling out his name. Over All,
Speaker 2: he was being playful throughout the entire event as well.
Speaker 2: He was very on Elon.
Speaker 6: Look, this is a company that has a huge retail
Speaker 6: shareholder base. Elon is a business celebrity, and the annual
Speaker 6: meetings are always sort of rock star affairs. But it
Speaker 6: was maybe a tiny bit looser, and you did feel
Speaker 6: like maybe that there had been some stress building up
Speaker 6: within the company and that was suddenly released yesterday afternoon.
Speaker 2: Okay, relieving of stress. But then he went back to
Speaker 2: the bread and butter that is autonomous, back to robotics.
Speaker 2: I just want to go back to what Tasha Kini
Speaker 2: was saying over at Ark Invested a little bit earlier.
Speaker 2: Let's just listen to what she had to say about FSD.
Speaker 2: I think this could have.
Speaker 4: A very attractive margins, higher margins than the the current
Speaker 4: business model today which is mainly selling vehicles.
Speaker 2: Okay, so is it reality?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean we heard and we heard Elon Musk
Speaker 6: echo this and in fact bring up Arc invest over
Speaker 6: and over again in that presentation. They just put out
Speaker 6: a huge, you know, prediction for their valuation. Elon Musk
Speaker 6: really likes it.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Think there is a question of what is reality. I suppose,
Speaker 6: you know, on one hand, Elon Musk going to say,
Speaker 6: Tesla fans bulls are going to say, we have the
Speaker 6: best driver assistance system on the market, and if you
Speaker 6: just follow the straight line, Elon Musk said this, if
Speaker 6: you just look at the trends towards autonomy, we're going
Speaker 6: to get there. On the other hand, there is no
Speaker 6: robotaxi today and there really is no way to get
Speaker 6: a robotaxi in the way that most people understand that
Speaker 6: word anytime soon. It's going to require massive regulatory overhaul
Speaker 6: and tons of technological breakthroughs that frankly are not there yet.
Speaker 6: And Elon Musk is counting on both of those things
Speaker 6: happening now. You know, who knows he has achieved a
Speaker 6: lot in his career, but this is a huge jump.
Speaker 5: He referred to.
Speaker 6: You know, we're not just writing a new chapter we're
Speaker 6: starting a new book, and look, starting a new book
Speaker 6: that is a challenge, that is not a given, and
Speaker 6: it is going to be a real trial for Tesla
Speaker 6: going forward.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering about new vehicles. In that book, there was
Speaker 3: this little tease where there were sort of silhouettes of
Speaker 3: vehicles under white sheets, and image of that appeared. I
Speaker 3: think one of those vehicles is in fact a very
Speaker 3: cheap EV that could compete globally with those ten thousand
Speaker 3: dollars Chinese evs.
Speaker 6: I mean, that is certainly what Tesla's investors, at least
Speaker 6: some investors would like to hear. And we saw kind
Speaker 6: of a panic earlier in the year when it appeared
Speaker 6: that Elon Musk was backing away from that. I don't
Speaker 6: think we should look at that slide and say that
Speaker 6: Elon Musk has a you know, twenty five thousand dollars
Speaker 6: EV in the near term. He brought this up in
Speaker 6: all sorts of ways. He talked about how hard it
Speaker 6: is to get to affordability, how difficult the car business is,
Speaker 6: and you know, of course he talked on and on
Speaker 6: and on about robotaxis. For him, I think at least
Speaker 6: right now, the affordable Tesla is the model three. He
Speaker 6: talked about how cheap it is with all their incentives
Speaker 6: with the when you consider the cost of gas and
Speaker 6: so on, and where they're really pushing towards is robotaxis
Speaker 6: and of course Optimists, which if you think a robotaxi
Speaker 6: is a fanciable product, you know optimis is you know.
Speaker 2: Sci fi or something sci fi? Well, he's pretty good
Speaker 2: at sci fi. Overall, we thank you Max Trafckin, absolutely
Speaker 2: brilliant to have you here to talk about some of
Speaker 2: the light moments within what is, of course was that AGM,
Speaker 2: but there were some serious moments and one of them
Speaker 2: was being voiced by Kristin Hull, CEO of Near Impact Capital,
Speaker 2: who was a co fighter of Proposal eight. Regarding and
Speaker 2: your reporting on anti harassment and discrimination efforts over at
Speaker 2: Tesla and Kristin, you're a renowned sort of activist investor.
Speaker 2: You go out there wanting to make impact. When you
Speaker 2: see this ultimate referendum endorsing Elon Musk and his board,
Speaker 2: do you feel you're having the impact?
Speaker 7: Hello On, thanks for having me today. You know this
Speaker 7: is a good question because we're here for the long game.
Speaker 7: We had been long term investors in Tesla, and we
Speaker 7: certainly see the promise both of the AI of the robotics,
Speaker 7: but certainly about revolutionary the entire automobile industry. And yet
Speaker 7: being at the meeting yesterday had us concerned about where
Speaker 7: investors are with this company.
Speaker 3: That proposal AD that Caroline just mentioned was voted down
Speaker 3: by shareholders yesterday. So I'm wondering where you go from here,
Speaker 3: given that you were one of the sponsors, one of
Speaker 3: the ones who brought that to the attention of shareholders.
Speaker 3: What's your next move, Kristen.
Speaker 7: We know we don't have the numbers yet, and so
Speaker 7: I'll be really curious to see how many of the
Speaker 7: investors actually did support the board doing a report looking
Speaker 7: into how much the company is spending on discrimination and
Speaker 7: harassment issues. Of course, for this company, Elan said himself
Speaker 7: several times. You know, he is a pathological optimist. And
Speaker 7: to be that optimist and to get to the dreams
Speaker 7: and the promises he made to shareholders, he's need to
Speaker 7: have some really tough talent at that company. So to
Speaker 7: be able to hire and retain that top talent, they're
Speaker 7: going to need to spend some money and some time
Speaker 7: and attention on human capital management.
Speaker 2: You say within that speech that you gave yesterday, you
Speaker 2: worry about the human capital management, the workforce management. Year
Speaker 2: over year, you're saying more harassment and discrimination allegations have
Speaker 2: emerged with few visible changes to Tesla's people management policies
Speaker 2: or practices. And in fact, Kristin, I just want to
Speaker 2: add to the fact that this comes in a context
Speaker 2: where we're not just talking about this with one company
Speaker 2: of Elon Musks. We're talking about it with others, just
Speaker 2: SpaceX and fired engineers there this week finding a lawsuit
Speaker 2: against Elon Musks for sexual harassment and for retaliation over
Speaker 2: in California. Kristin, how much is this a worry? Do
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 7: More broadly, this is a significant concern. There are thousands
Speaker 7: of employees that are coming forward. And this is, as
Speaker 7: you mentioned, this isn't across one company. You know, he
Speaker 7: is the leader of several companies. And he also said
Speaker 7: that they're writing a new book. Writing a new book
Speaker 7: is going to need a full time author, and when
Speaker 7: this author has so many cases of discrimination and harassment,
Speaker 7: investors can be concerned.
Speaker 2: Can I just ask you to articulate you said thousands
Speaker 2: of employees are coming forward. Where is that data for
Speaker 2: all audience? Perhaps on seeing the thousands, but a hearing
Speaker 2: of the eight engineer here and the.
Speaker 8: Likes that's right.
Speaker 7: So TESLA is still using for s arbitration, which does silence.
Speaker 7: It's a concealment mechanism where many of the employees are
Speaker 7: silenced and are not able to bring to suit. However,
Speaker 7: many have gone to the State of California and now
Speaker 7: the State of California is suing Tesla for racial discrimination
Speaker 7: based on thousands of reports coming to the state.
Speaker 3: Some folks out there do argue that the idea of
Speaker 3: talent moving between companies is a benefit for Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: Check out what Tasha Kini said a little earlier on
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Surveillance.
Speaker 4: Kristen, it's great for talent acquisition. We've seen employees move
Speaker 4: in between his companies. You know, if you're the top
Speaker 4: AAI engineer in the world, you're not going to get
Speaker 4: bored working for Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: Again, Tasha Kiney of ARC invest earlier on Bloomberg Surveillance, Kristin,
Speaker 3: what do you make of what she said? Is there
Speaker 3: any indication to you that it's not beneficial for these
Speaker 3: employees to move between companies. That the idea of employees
Speaker 3: going from Neurolink to SpaceX to Tesla has not been
Speaker 3: a boon for the companies.
Speaker 7: You know, I don't mind the cross pollination. Certainly, we
Speaker 7: want talent and we want well rounded employees. And yet
Speaker 7: what we're talking about here are sexual harassment and racial discrimination,
Speaker 7: and those employees are not moving from one company to another.
Speaker 7: Those are actually being boxed out and so their talent
Speaker 7: isn't rising to the top and they're not able to
Speaker 7: bring their full selves to the workforce. And that's where
Speaker 7: we're having issues because as we know, Tesla's been out
Speaker 7: in front for quite some time. However, much of the
Speaker 7: industry is poised to catch up and they this talent
Speaker 7: is moving to other other companies within the industry.
Speaker 3: Christ And when you were on the program back in
Speaker 3: November with that in Caroline, you said you wanted to
Speaker 3: see Elon Musk step down. Do you still at least
Speaker 3: at Tesla, do you still want to see that?
Speaker 7: So where we're going with this is that we are
Speaker 7: looking for the board to put in management that really works.
Speaker 7: And so we saw yesterday at the shareholder meeting there's
Speaker 7: a lot of shareholders that really do love the CEO
Speaker 7: despite his shortcomings, So if we could manage around that.
Speaker 7: You know, there's no perfect CEO, and yet we do
Speaker 7: know that leadership comes from the top, and so we
Speaker 7: would like to see him either really recognize where the
Speaker 7: human capital management is missing and put that in place,
Speaker 7: or possibly go on to other projects.
Speaker 2: And Christen for those that yes voice that there's been
Speaker 2: a capital market capitalization erosion in the last six months,
Speaker 2: but ultimately back elon because he has contributed so much
Speaker 2: value to this business and ultimately to the US economy.
Speaker 2: Where do you go with the articulation of talent and
Speaker 2: money here?
Speaker 7: So he's a clear leader, right and in fact, some
Speaker 7: would say, given yesterday's following, that he's a guru, and
Speaker 7: many were attesting their love for this CEO. So no
Speaker 7: one can argue that Tesla has completely disrupted the automobile
Speaker 7: industry as we know it, particularly with the battery play
Speaker 7: and then really moving things off great as far as
Speaker 7: electrifying our economy. We want to give him that credit.
Speaker 7: And there's so much potential at this company that can
Speaker 7: be realized when we know that they are hiring top
Speaker 7: talent employees and that they can keep them, so we
Speaker 7: really are mindful that we want to see them working
Speaker 7: toward a place where discrimination, harassment don't happen at Tesla.
Speaker 3: Kristin really appreciate you coming on and joining us post
Speaker 3: shareholder meeting. Kristin Hole of NIA Impact Capital, thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Was posting their biggest gain in more than four years
Speaker 3: after the company projected strong future sales for its creative products,
Speaker 3: suggesting customers are adopting the company's new AI based tools.
Speaker 3: Joining us now for more is Bloomberg's Brody Ford Brody?
Speaker 3: Is that a sigh of relief? I hear from investors saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: we're not as concerned as we thought we should be
Speaker 3: about competition from these upstarts and established organizations. Adobe is
Speaker 3: doing okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: The question for.
Speaker 9: Our software in recent weeks has been are you an
Speaker 9: AI winner or an AI loser? And investors have whipsad
Speaker 9: on Adobe. I mean, I think they were down like
Speaker 9: twenty five percent on the year before the results, but
Speaker 9: yesterday evening they pretty much showed that, hey, people are
Speaker 9: sticking with our platform and they are beginning to pay
Speaker 9: for these AI tools. I mean, they introduce their family
Speaker 9: of models that have now been used nine billion times, right,
Speaker 9: I mean, it's not a ton of money from AI yet,
Speaker 9: but the indicators here are looking much better thanpated.
Speaker 2: Still notable, though Adobe is still off by more than
Speaker 2: twelve percent year today. As you said, they've been under
Speaker 2: pressure coming into this. I'm looking at alyst recommendations thirty
Speaker 2: five say by, and in fact the price target is
Speaker 2: still well above where we're currently training. They see going
Speaker 2: out to about six hundred and thirteen by in the
Speaker 2: next twelve months. What gets us hed, Crody? What more
Speaker 2: proof do we need that they're able to generate revenue?
Speaker 9: Well, So much investment in AI right now, as you
Speaker 9: all have reported, is in the hardware, in the infrastructure.
Speaker 9: At some point there have to be application uses for
Speaker 9: all this AI investment or it's you know, why were
Speaker 9: we doing it? The hope is that Adobe is one
Speaker 9: of those companies that has Photoshop, Illustrator, these applications used
Speaker 9: by millions of people, and that once folks are ready
Speaker 9: to start paying for AI, it's going to go to
Speaker 9: a company like a Dome. Of course, it could also
Speaker 9: go to a company like Canba, and that's where the
Speaker 9: barecase is Brody.
Speaker 3: How important are these safeguards when it comes to copyright
Speaker 3: to Adobe's business. Is this the moat that Adobe has
Speaker 3: the idea that if you use its tools to generate images,
Speaker 3: those are quote unquote commercially safe.
Speaker 9: It certainly helps so, right, I mean that's a big
Speaker 9: part of their argument that hey, if you go use
Speaker 9: mid Journey, if you go use DOLLI, you might get
Speaker 9: sued and your SISO is going to be mad at you.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 9: I think that whether or not folks are going to
Speaker 9: only stick with Adobe for this copyright concept, it's yet
Speaker 9: to be seen. I think what's a more compelling argument
Speaker 9: is that Adobe already has the applications we all know
Speaker 9: how to use. I mean, am I going to go
Speaker 9: learn a whole new program based on AI or am
Speaker 9: I going to click the new button in Photoshop that's
Speaker 9: going to help me generate something and it's not really
Speaker 9: disruptive to how I already did my work. To me
Speaker 9: and to many investors, that's the really compelling argument.
Speaker 2: They have laziness love it ready for also.
Speaker 3: Precipses that I know how to use Photoshop with.
Speaker 2: A I'm sure you could dust off some of those.
Speaker 2: Brody Ford will show us we.
Speaker 3: Ban c you.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, coming up we head out to the G seven
Speaker 2: in Italy that the Pope has been urging world leaders
Speaker 2: to be cautious on artificial intelligence over there, Tim.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're certainly watching shares of Vodaphone this morning, Caroline,
Speaker 3: because there's some news coming out of the UK.
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep keen eye on photophone. Telecom company look at
Speaker 2: selling off stakes in companies and stakes around the world
Speaker 2: that haven't been particularly optimal for them. This time, they're
Speaker 2: looking to sell an entire stake in an Indian tower
Speaker 2: company in block trades. We think it's going to happen
Speaker 2: as soon as next week. Could fetch up to two
Speaker 2: billion dollars Apple quarter percent for the UK Listic company
Speaker 2: is a bilybod technology time now for tech first Up,
Speaker 2: open ai has appointed retired US Army General Paul Lakasoni
Speaker 2: to hiss Bard of Directors now. Makasoni formerly led the
Speaker 2: National Security Agency and will join open AI's Safety and
Speaker 2: Security committee. That's as the company is looking to bolster
Speaker 2: at cybersecurity efforts to protect its technology. Meanwhile, recent documents
Speaker 2: reveal that London hospitals, well, they've known for years about
Speaker 2: a weakness that left them vulnerable to a recent cyber hack.
Speaker 2: Now Guy and St Thomas's NHS Foundation failed to meet
Speaker 2: UK Health Service data security standards, and it even acknowledged
Speaker 2: as recently as April that quote cybersecurity remained a high
Speaker 2: risk and Microsoft will it faced a public grilling on
Speaker 2: Capitol Hill because President Bradsmith was facing questions from the
Speaker 2: House Homeland Security Committee related to two reports that Microsoft
Speaker 2: failed to protect government emails when getting into the hands
Speaker 2: of Chinese hackers. Now, the tech giant pledged that it
Speaker 2: would overhaul its cyber defenses in response to the recent lapses.
Speaker 3: Teim Now talking of political discussions around technology, one has
Speaker 3: been underway at the G seven summit, with Proud a
Speaker 3: surprising voice to many. The Pope arrived at the conference
Speaker 3: today and expressed his concerns about AI. Bloomberg's Ari Hordern
Speaker 3: joins us with more from Italy. Right now, Henri Pope
Speaker 3: Francis becomes the first Pope to address the Group of Seven.
Speaker 3: What can you tell us about what he warned when
Speaker 3: it comes to AI?
Speaker 11: Well, a lot of fanfare around the Pope given the
Speaker 11: fact he's the first pontiff to ever address the G seven.
Speaker 11: Here in the southern Italy, in the region of Pulia,
Speaker 11: and it comes on the heels of the Pope calling
Speaker 11: for a treaty to regulate AI. He himself has been
Speaker 11: victim of AI generated imagers. So this is what he
Speaker 11: had to say to the leaders around the table.
Speaker 2: He said, AI is fascinating and terrible.
Speaker 11: He talked about the fact that his first and foremost
Speaker 11: an instrument, but the benefits or negative consequences will depend
Speaker 11: on how it is used and how it is deployed.
Speaker 11: So we really wanted to make this case to G
Speaker 11: seven world leaders and what we know given the draft
Speaker 11: communicate that only Bloomberg has seen eyes on right now
Speaker 11: and the leader we'll release it later this evening. Is
Speaker 11: this they are going to say, they recognize the impact
Speaker 11: of AI and the military domain and the need for
Speaker 11: a framework for responsible development and use. We encourage more
Speaker 11: states to do so to ensure that military use of
Speaker 11: AI is responsibly responsible, complies with applicable international law, and
Speaker 11: enhances intentional security. The only real deliverable though we are getting,
Speaker 11: even though there's lots of talk about AI today at
Speaker 11: the second day of the G seventh summit, is really
Speaker 11: that they're just going to coordinate more together. But potentially
Speaker 11: this sets up potentially more work and what the Pope
Speaker 11: is calling for and has called for in the past,
Speaker 11: a global treaty.
Speaker 2: They're good at talking, and the policymaking sometimes a little slower, unless,
Speaker 2: of course, you're in the EU. I'm really talking of
Speaker 2: the EU. Much anxiety around France. I mean the markets
Speaker 2: selling off hard today and Macron was there anything regarding
Speaker 2: the French economy. I mean for us it's important from technology,
Speaker 2: but for everywhere else it's political.
Speaker 11: If you think Manuel MalCon had a bad day yesterday,
Speaker 11: he had a worse day waking up today after the
Speaker 11: news last night that these left wing parties are going
Speaker 11: to form a coalition in a block and they're coming
Speaker 11: out and talking about a manifesto and what they would
Speaker 11: do in terms of some of the reforms Emmanuel Macon
Speaker 11: has wanted to put in place and has been working
Speaker 11: on with the French economy. They're talking about lifting wages,
Speaker 11: they're talking about going back to a lower retirement age.
Speaker 11: You heard from the French finance minister today talking to
Speaker 11: local radio stations and friends. Really they're talking about how
Speaker 11: this is going to be very challenging, not just for
Speaker 11: the French economy. But this is going to be challenging
Speaker 11: for Emmanuel Macon. He's really going to be hit now
Speaker 11: when it comes from the left and the right squeezing
Speaker 11: him and he might have to pick someone from this
Speaker 11: left coalition to be his prime minister. And he came
Speaker 11: into this G seven really a weekend leader.
Speaker 2: Amri Hoden, We thank you so much for coming live
Speaker 2: to us from Italy. Welcome back to bluemod Technology.
Speaker 3: I'm Caroline Hyde and I'm Tim standerbeck in for a
Speaker 3: lad though.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile there you are on cam. Oh, let's just do
Speaker 2: a quick check on these markets, tens, because we're actually
Speaker 2: managing to bounce off of our lows, and it's that
Speaker 2: one hundred now gaining about a tenth of percent high.
Speaker 2: That the broader NAZAC index is still underwater by a
Speaker 2: tenth per percent. We're trying to digest and consumer sentiment
Speaker 2: that well falls again rather surprising the market inflation pressure
Speaker 2: store there for a consumer woes. Politically speaking, over in France,
Speaker 2: the market's just shut. We're down by two point seven
Speaker 2: percent on the CAC forty look not as low as
Speaker 2: it had been earlier in the training day. But this
Speaker 2: is an index that's wiped out tens of billions of dollars,
Speaker 2: the same a size as the economy of Greece over
Speaker 2: the course of the week because the political instability. Bitcoin
Speaker 2: though on a little bit by three ten percent, it's
Speaker 2: six eight hundred and ninety nine.
Speaker 5: Move on.
Speaker 2: See how we're training on individual names this morning. And Adobe,
Speaker 2: I mean you've called it out time and time again.
Speaker 2: Tim absolute phenomenal move fourteen percent higher, best day since
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. We liked the adoption of Adobe AI products
Speaker 2: in the earnings. Tesla though perhaps rallies into the AGM
Speaker 2: and then falls after it after the relief that is
Speaker 2: Elon Musk getting the backing of shareholders. More broadly, maybe
Speaker 2: he won't be jumping ship and doing AI elsewhere anytime soon.
Speaker 2: We're down by one point seven percent, though after we
Speaker 2: digest also the Tesla moving to Texas for its corporate headquarters.
Speaker 2: We understand on semi interesting, off by more than four percent.
Speaker 2: This seminar conductor company. I mean a few woes. They're
Speaker 2: consolidating in terms of whether fabs are going to be
Speaker 2: but they're notably having to let go of some people
Speaker 2: about one thousand people overall, we're off by four percentage points.
Speaker 2: But we want to talk about another key corporate company,
Speaker 2: still private, but one that you might know and use well.
Speaker 2: All Eyes on Health, fun Tech and Apple's latest watch
Speaker 2: announcements of course came earlier in the week, but here's
Speaker 2: another company in the space that's seeing real momentum or
Speaker 2: a ring. We want to bring in the CEO, Tom Hale,
Speaker 2: because well, you've got some really strong numbers for us.
Speaker 2: How many people have been buying these rings? Who are
Speaker 2: buying these rings?
Speaker 8: Tom, We're very proud today to announce that we've reached
Speaker 8: two point five million rings sold. We just hit that
Speaker 8: milestone a couple days ago. And the impact that we're
Speaker 8: having on millions of people's lives is I think just
Speaker 8: so inspiring for us.
Speaker 5: It's not just the high end.
Speaker 8: It's the CEOs and the people who are just getting
Speaker 8: their first job. It's men, it's women, it's old and young.
Speaker 8: It's people who are training for marathons, and people who
Speaker 8: are just trying to get out of bed today or
Speaker 8: managing a chronic illness. It's really amazing to see this
Speaker 8: movement taking off.
Speaker 5: Dig a little is important.
Speaker 3: Tom dig A little deeper into the demographics here and
Speaker 3: help us understand in terms of men and women, the
Speaker 3: shift that you've seen who's buying the ring right now.
Speaker 8: What's been most impressive to us over the last twelve
Speaker 8: months is this shift towards women. Women's health I think
Speaker 8: has been really a hot topic. I think there's a
Speaker 8: lot of history where women haven't been paid as much
Speaker 8: attention to by technology or the medical industry, and right
Speaker 8: now we're sort of hitting this sweet spot. In the
Speaker 8: last twelve months, we've seen our demographic shift dramatically towards women.
Speaker 8: Months ago, we were fifty five forty five male to female.
Speaker 8: Now we are almost sixty forty female to male. I
Speaker 8: think part of it it's a ring, but part of
Speaker 8: it is that women, I think, really have a real
Speaker 8: desire to take control of their health and we help
Speaker 8: them do that.
Speaker 2: And Tom, actually the ring's working better for women now
Speaker 2: than when I originally purchased it. Like I was originally
Speaker 2: bored a ring by my husband because I wanted to
Speaker 2: be more aware of my own cycles, and initially it
Speaker 2: wasn't that great, But now it's actually really being incredibly predictive,
Speaker 2: and I'm interested from your perspective as to what you've
Speaker 2: done on the back end here, what DATAI using, How
Speaker 2: you able to interpret women's health that much better at
Speaker 2: the moment.
Speaker 8: Well, so much of what's important to women is one
Speaker 8: where they are in their life. Are they at the
Speaker 8: beginning where they're worried about contraception or conception. Are they
Speaker 8: getting pregnant, are they in post post birth? Are they
Speaker 8: in perimenopause or menopause, that whole cycle. Actually, we've been
Speaker 8: investing in each one of those areas, most recently. The
Speaker 8: dynamic around temperature, which is one of the metrics that
Speaker 8: the or ring tracks, is really powerful for being predictive
Speaker 8: about a lot of things in a woman's life. It
Speaker 8: can predict when your cycle is going to come, what
Speaker 8: phase of your cycle in when you're maybe most fertile
Speaker 8: or maybe not fertile. It's a really powerful tool, and
Speaker 8: I think women really have welcomed the idea that they
Speaker 8: can have a lot of information, knowledge and education founded
Speaker 8: in the data of their own body.
Speaker 3: Hey, Tom, I think one thing that members have noticed
Speaker 3: is that you're able to add different measurements to the
Speaker 3: ring even after you buy it, without buying a new
Speaker 3: piece of hardware. For example, cardiovascular age was something I
Speaker 3: saw recently when I opened up the app as a
Speaker 3: new feature. There, what can you tell us about the
Speaker 3: product roadmap right now in terms of what new sensors
Speaker 3: will be turned on and what we can expect in
Speaker 3: the coming months and perhaps even year.
Speaker 8: We've made a really lot of progress by investing in
Speaker 8: the software and activating the sensors that are already on
Speaker 8: your body. What's powerful about it is that it's collecting
Speaker 8: your data over a long period of time and looking
Speaker 8: for deviations in those data. So here's one example that's
Speaker 8: really interesting. We have a new feature. It's in beta.
Speaker 5: It's called symptom radar.
Speaker 8: And what symptom radar does is two or three days
Speaker 8: before you actually get sick, it gives you signals that
Speaker 8: you might be getting sick and you might want to
Speaker 8: change your behavior, maybe you know, drink more fluids or
Speaker 8: take some rest, or try and avoid stress. And these
Speaker 8: kinds of features that are really more strictly speaking, health
Speaker 8: features as opposed to fitness features, are the kinds of
Speaker 8: things that people really find a ton of value. In
Speaker 8: cardiovascular age, honestly, it's motivated people dramatically if you learn
Speaker 8: that your cardiovascular system is older than it should be,
Speaker 8: older than you are with your chronological age. It really
Speaker 8: makes you get out of bed and work a little
Speaker 8: bit harder because you can see that metric move over time.
Speaker 5: So, broadening the software.
Speaker 8: Solutions that we provide to people using the RING, we
Speaker 8: think is going to take us down the path of
Speaker 8: women's health, cardiovascular health, and I think ultimately when we
Speaker 8: want to look at all the things that are shortening
Speaker 8: people's lives, whether it's cardio, metabolic disease or other disease
Speaker 8: states that people are worried about or might cause some
Speaker 8: illness or death.
Speaker 3: Well, your software company, and you're a hard way company,
Speaker 3: and you charge for both of them, what is the
Speaker 3: revenue breakdown right now between the software side and the
Speaker 3: hardware side? What portions of your overall yearly revenue comes
Speaker 3: from software now?
Speaker 8: So we're pushing up on north to twenty percent is
Speaker 8: software revenue. And this is a pretty significant milestone for us.
Speaker 8: We introduce a subscription business model in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 8: and we have more than tripled our active subscription base
Speaker 8: since then. The reason for this is that people are
Speaker 8: so engaged. I mean, of course it's your own data.
Speaker 8: It's your own body, it's your own health. People are
Speaker 8: really invested in this, but the reality is it's an
Speaker 8: incredibly sticky application. People consult it three times a day
Speaker 8: on average. Out of any seven day period, eighty percent
Speaker 8: of our customers are looking at it five of those
Speaker 8: seven days. The ratio of daily active users over monthly
Speaker 8: active users is on par with social media. It's just
Speaker 8: a lot healthier than social media. So this engagement has
Speaker 8: really driven the software side of our business and it's increasing.
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about engagement with your patents
Speaker 2: and IP and actually engagement with the courts a little bit, Tom,
Speaker 2: because we are seeing that actually you're pretty active when
Speaker 2: it comes to fighting for your own IP, and some
Speaker 2: companies feel that maybe they need you to make a
Speaker 2: preemptive strike. We've seen Samsung talking about launching a ring
Speaker 2: and ahead of it coming ready to the market, they've
Speaker 2: preemptively sued you because they're worried that you'd say that
Speaker 2: they've run a foul of some of your patents in
Speaker 2: some way, Tom, can you respond to the Samsung claims
Speaker 2: and indeed what you feel about trying to protect your IP?
Speaker 8: Well, I can't really comment broadly on active litigation. But
Speaker 8: here's what I can say.
Speaker 5: The law does not support.
Speaker 8: Samsung's position here, and quite frankly, we've already filed our
Speaker 8: motion to dismiss and I believe we're going.
Speaker 3: To prevail for a CEO. Tom, Hell, Tom, thanks for
Speaker 3: joining us. Really good to see you, and I just
Speaker 3: say I really.
Speaker 2: Loved the way. Also, when I have a glass of
Speaker 2: wine on a Friday or Saturday the next day, it says,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Everyone feels like these on a Saturday. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: we've got you some break news and I just want
Speaker 2: to bring what's happening in Apple and the EU set
Speaker 2: for It's well, the first big tech company really to
Speaker 2: feel the ire of Europe under the new EU Digital law.
Speaker 2: We understand Brussels is set to charge Apple over allegedly
Speaker 2: stifling competition in its mobile app store. It's the first
Speaker 2: time that you regulators are really using these new digital
Speaker 2: rules the Digital Markets Act in particular to target a
Speaker 2: big tech company. Look not being factored in much the
Speaker 2: share price right now, but we're still off by some
Speaker 2: three tenths of a sentence.
Speaker 3: And well, of course, continue to bring you any developments
Speaker 3: or updates. Throughout the day on Bloomberg regarding this breaking news.
Speaker 3: Coming up, we are going to be joined by Carolyn Childers,
Speaker 3: the co founder and CEO of Chief, to talk about
Speaker 3: the state of women in leadership. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the c suite and diversity there. Women's
Speaker 2: representation in the C suite is actually fallen the first
Speaker 2: time in two decades, so latest from report, I have
Speaker 2: a non for profit fifty to fifty women on boards.
Speaker 2: Let's dive into why and actually a tech enabled solution
Speaker 2: as to how things might change a little. Karen Childers
Speaker 2: is with us, co founder and CEO of Chief. It's
Speaker 2: a network of senior women executives, in fact, the biggest
Speaker 2: network there is out there. And what's interesting is you're
Speaker 2: trying to shine a light on even if there is
Speaker 2: this DEI pushback audibly so coming from companies and boards.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're still seeing the work being done. But why
Speaker 2: are we seeing fewer women's on boards? For example?
Speaker 12: Yeah, we just recently published a study that talked about
Speaker 12: companies are still making the investment into diversity. Eighty percent
Speaker 12: of companies are still having the same, if not more
Speaker 12: investment into ensuring that they have great representation at all
Speaker 12: levels of leadership, but as you said, the numbers are
Speaker 12: not moving. So for the first time in over a decade,
Speaker 12: the number of women in the C suite has actually declined.
Speaker 12: And it's a number of factors which makes it so
Speaker 12: hard to find one silver bullet to actually change some
Speaker 12: of these representation numbers. It's everything from the glass cliff
Speaker 12: where women are so often put into positions where they're
Speaker 12: needing to do a turnaround of a business. It's everything
Speaker 12: from the real push to bring everybody back into the office,
Speaker 12: which we know has greater impact on women. And it's
Speaker 12: why something like Chief which is really focused on how
Speaker 12: do we give support and network in community to senior
Speaker 12: executive women to It's still going to be hard to
Speaker 12: be a senior executive, but at least it will be
Speaker 12: less lonely and be able to come together to really
Speaker 12: give each other support.
Speaker 2: And let's talk about the support. You're offering sort of
Speaker 2: more customized membership packages here to ease some of the
Speaker 2: anxieties that each woman might have. Whether it's about executive coaching,
Speaker 2: maybe it's a little bit more about advisory, maybe it's
Speaker 2: about education once you're there in leadership, how do you
Speaker 2: it tune your to be the best leader you can be?
Speaker 2: How much you could be charging for this? How winning
Speaker 2: are women to spend on this?
Speaker 12: Yes, so we are largely sponsored by the companies, so
Speaker 12: the women go back into their organizations and get them
Speaker 12: to sponsor their membership into chief And if you think
Speaker 12: about what it costs to get a six month engagement
Speaker 12: with an executive coach, that can often be thirty thousand
Speaker 12: dollars for a senior executive. So our price points are
Speaker 12: anywhere from fifty nine hundred to up to eleven nine
Speaker 12: hundred for executive coaching. We started five years ago here
Speaker 12: in New York with just one hundred members. We've now
Speaker 12: grown to thousands of members across the US. And throughout
Speaker 12: that entire journey, we've been adapting as an organization to
Speaker 12: really understand what leaders need in this moment, and that
Speaker 12: changes every year from when we started to the pandemic,
Speaker 12: to all of the financial crises that we have seen,
Speaker 12: to the socioeconomic issues people are navigating. And so we
Speaker 12: recently just pivoted as a company to really give a
Speaker 12: number of different membership packages to our members that can
Speaker 12: really meet you where you are. So whether that is
Speaker 12: executive advisory where you meet with a peer group, your
Speaker 12: true peers that are going through everything that you're going through,
Speaker 12: to meet on a monthly basis, whether that be one
Speaker 12: on one coaching because there are times where you just
Speaker 12: need a little very focused time on you, or whether
Speaker 12: that be executive education specific things that you're looking to
Speaker 12: dive into.
Speaker 3: I'm wondering about the company sponsorship now, I'm in here.
Speaker 3: We're Bloomberg. We love numbers, we love the data. What
Speaker 3: happens if an individual who wants to join comes to
Speaker 3: you and says, you know, my company will not sponsor this.
Speaker 3: I need to go back to them with proof that
Speaker 3: this is a worthwhile investment, that it works. What data
Speaker 3: do you give them?
Speaker 12: Yeah, there's a number of things that we look at.
Speaker 12: I think success metrics in something like this is hard
Speaker 12: because success is very different for every individual, and so
Speaker 12: we really look at how much does this really help
Speaker 12: change your leadership impact? How much do you believe you
Speaker 12: are a stronger, better leader because of your participation in chief?
Speaker 12: How much do you feel like you have built the
Speaker 12: connections that help you really navigate new areas that you
Speaker 12: need to look into. And those are the numbers that
Speaker 12: we give back to the organizations on top of the
Speaker 12: broader numbers of how important it is to drive diversity
Speaker 12: into your companies and what that does for you as
Speaker 12: an organization.
Speaker 3: Okay, so talk numbers here in terms of companies that
Speaker 3: have not yet signed on, how will you get to
Speaker 3: one hundred percent participation within the Fortune one hundred, within
Speaker 3: the Fortune five hundred.
Speaker 12: We actually have members in ten thousand different companies, So
Speaker 12: we actually have amazing sponsorship across all of these different organizations,
Speaker 12: and we continue to build those relationships again and again,
Speaker 12: but have already made a pretty significant impact into all
Speaker 12: of the different companies to be able to sponsor their members.
Speaker 2: Have any companies pulled away as the pendulum on DEI
Speaker 2: is shifted.
Speaker 12: I think what we're seeing is that people are talking
Speaker 12: about the investment in DEI a lot less than they
Speaker 12: are actually pulling back on the investment.
Speaker 2: That's something that we noted. We did a whole show
Speaker 2: on it yesterday. I want to ask about your own capital.
Speaker 2: You raised a ton of money back in the heady
Speaker 2: days of twenty twenty two, and I wonder whether you
Speaker 2: need more. You have some big commitments from some very
Speaker 2: well known bench capitalists. But this is expensing opening club houses.
Speaker 2: You have a lot of them New York, Washington and
Speaker 2: the like, and indeed satisfying the needs of your membership.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 12: I think we are always wanting to continue to invest
Speaker 12: in our members and make sure that they are having
Speaker 12: the best experience in continuing to grow as leaders for Russell,
Speaker 12: a really strong business that doesn't need to go and
Speaker 12: raise capital.
Speaker 2: You're profitable.
Speaker 5: We are profitable.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to hear that, VCS very very cool.
Speaker 3: Maybe breaking a little news here tech Carolyn Childers, co
Speaker 3: founder and CEO of Chief, thanks so much for joining
Speaker 3: us today. Well, the highly anticipated launch of Ether ETFs
Speaker 3: could be coming as early as this summer, according to
Speaker 3: SEC chair Gary Gensler. Bloomberg's James Seyffert it joins us
Speaker 3: now with more James, how do you take Gensler's recent
Speaker 3: comments in terms of your own thinking when it comes
Speaker 3: to an actual launch date for these when will investors
Speaker 3: do you think have access to this at least according
Speaker 3: to Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean when these things were approved there was
Speaker 5: the end of May.
Speaker 10: We basically said they'll be out probably by the end
Speaker 10: of the summer, possibly earlier, so our overall take has been.
Speaker 5: For a long time.
Speaker 10: These things are likely to begin trading sometime this summer.
Speaker 10: We put the over under around the July fourth number.
Speaker 10: We thought it could happen by early July. There's a
Speaker 10: lot of overlap you can take from the launching of
Speaker 10: spot bitcoin ETFs and the launching of ethery and Futures ETFs.
Speaker 10: They had to go through like similar processes with these
Speaker 10: divisions at the SEC, so there is some new stuff here,
Speaker 10: specifically with spot Etheroryum. But we didn't think it would
Speaker 10: take as long as it took for spot Bitcoin, so
Speaker 10: just to put some number on it, Spot Bitcoin started
Speaker 10: in early October. They launched on January tenth, so that's
Speaker 10: a three month process, so we think it should take
Speaker 10: less than that. We think a lot of it is done,
Speaker 10: but based on what we're seeing right now, all these
Speaker 10: issuers submitted their documents for registration, this last step of
Speaker 10: the process to get these things approved by the SEC
Speaker 10: fully on May thirty first, and there hasn't been any
Speaker 10: movement as far as we can tell from the SEC.
Speaker 5: So the SEC is also in no rush at this point.
Speaker 10: But I think it's unlikely that it would take anything
Speaker 10: beyond the summer, and we were saying that weeks ago.
Speaker 10: So I feel like Gensler is saying that in front
Speaker 10: of Congress. Didn't really like give us any more insight
Speaker 10: than we already had.
Speaker 5: But time will tell.
Speaker 2: The players vanek, Arc, black Rock, Fidelity the same names
Speaker 2: as we saw with a Bitcoin spot ETF. Is there
Speaker 2: the same desire to be offering these ETFs this time
Speaker 2: round to match what might be slightly less demand.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so we do think the demand will be slightly less,
Speaker 10: but we still think. I mean, you're talking about slightly
Speaker 10: less demand versus the most successful launches in ETF history
Speaker 10: across the world, some of the most successful fun launches.
Speaker 5: In history across the world.
Speaker 10: Right, So, even if you get twenty five percent of
Speaker 10: the a of the flows, which is kind of the
Speaker 10: range that we're thinking twenty twenty five percent maybe more,
Speaker 10: part of that goes back to the fact that ethereum
Speaker 10: is about thirty percent of the size of bitcoin, so
Speaker 10: there is going to be a little bit less demand.
Speaker 10: But again, there is a lot of issuers that stepped
Speaker 10: out of this. Technically speaking, three and a half issuers
Speaker 10: jumped out of this. So wisdom Tree Valkyrie and hash
Speaker 10: Decks fully are not launching ETFs ark in twenty one
Speaker 10: Shares partnered with on their bitcoin ETF and ARC is
Speaker 10: now backed out, but we do have one new issue
Speaker 10: in pro Shares for this Ethereum race, so most of
Speaker 10: the same players are still in this.
Speaker 2: James lift the lid on the gossip a little bit
Speaker 2: as to why people might get out and ultimately what
Speaker 2: people feel about the SEC process, because I'm hearing behind
Speaker 2: the scenes a lot of the time, you know, this
Speaker 2: stop start, this sudden desire to have all your documentation
Speaker 2: and then go quiet. I mean, it's exhausting, and many
Speaker 2: feel that there's more challenges and more hopes to jump
Speaker 2: than is necessary.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean's what's really happened here. From our point
Speaker 10: of view and from what we're seeing and hearing, a
Speaker 10: lot of this has become political. It's not like just
Speaker 10: normal going through the processes of doing these things.
Speaker 5: It seems like this.
Speaker 10: Approval actually happened on the back of political wind shifting,
Speaker 10: which is part of the reason why we don't know
Speaker 10: when this is going to launch, why there's such a
Speaker 10: large gap between the nineteen before approval and the S
Speaker 10: one registration approval.
Speaker 5: So a lot of it has.
Speaker 10: To do with the fact that this has become so
Speaker 10: political in nature. But another reason why people have backed
Speaker 10: out is the fact these things are not going to
Speaker 10: allow staking right now. If you can stake ethereum, that's
Speaker 10: a three ish three to four percent yield, so that's
Speaker 10: almost like a fee that you're missing out on. So
Speaker 10: there's a lot of inefficiencies potentially here. But the main
Speaker 10: reason that I think this is some of these issues
Speaker 10: have backed out is just one, fees got so competitive,
Speaker 10: Like we saw a massive fee war launch before the
Speaker 10: biccoin ETFs even launched themselves, so price is compressed to
Speaker 10: the point where issuers aren't really making that much money.
Speaker 10: And throw in the fact that if you're a smaller issuer,
Speaker 10: you have to compete with the behemoths of Blackrock, Fidelity,
Speaker 10: in Vesco. So some of these issuers have done well
Speaker 10: to compete with them, right, but it's very hard to
Speaker 10: basically start from day one against those guys. A lot
Speaker 10: of these smaller issuers benefit from launching before them, coming
Speaker 10: out with new products right here, when the bitcoin ETFs
Speaker 10: launch and when the etherey and mets launch, they're all
Speaker 10: starting out of the same gate, and it's really hard
Speaker 10: to compete with somebody with that much distribution in size.
Speaker 3: James, I know you do not do price targets over
Speaker 3: at Bloomberg Intelligence, but I am curious about the price
Speaker 3: of ether because we're still not back to those twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one all time highs, whereas Bitcoin did hit an
Speaker 3: all time high just a few months ago in the
Speaker 3: wake of these spot bitcoin ETFs. Well, what can you
Speaker 3: tell us about the way that you're thinking about price
Speaker 3: movement when these ETFs do become available for investors.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean the consensus for bitcoin from the market
Speaker 10: was like it's going to be a buy the rumor
Speaker 10: sell the news, and it ended up kind of being
Speaker 10: like that initially. But once money started pouring into the funds,
Speaker 10: obviously Bitcoin's price ran and there the ETFs are a
Speaker 10: large reason why we've seen those all time highs in bitcoin.
Speaker 10: I guess it will depend what happens on the flows
Speaker 10: on the back of a theory. So if the etherem
Speaker 10: metfs launch and they do not see as much interest
Speaker 10: as people are expecting, or they see more interest than
Speaker 10: people are expecting, we'll see that run and we could
Speaker 10: see all time eyes, But I think Ethereum is kind
Speaker 10: of caught in the middle here.
Speaker 5: There's a little bit more going on.
Speaker 10: Bitcoin has this narrative, it's digital goal, it is what
Speaker 10: it is, right. Ethereum is like more of the Internet
Speaker 10: of money and app store, what have you.
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of competitors.
Speaker 10: So I think part of the reason that Ethereum hasn't
Speaker 10: caught and run alongside Bitcoin is the fact that it's
Speaker 10: competing with the likes of Solana and these other coins.
Speaker 2: James always such great inside track. We thank you, James
Speaker 2: Siefert of Bluemeg Intelligence. Meanwhile, that does it for this
Speaker 2: edition of BlueBag Technology. Happy Friday. Great to have Tim
Speaker 2: here in the spotlight with me. To check out our
Speaker 2: podcast you can find on the terminal as well as
Speaker 2: online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart this is Blue Meg Technology.