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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, September twenty third,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am

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Speaker 1: co editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm

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Speaker 1: in LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters

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Speaker 1: around the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Variety Chief film critic Owen Gleiberman on

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Speaker 1: the new Paul Thomas Anderson drama One Battle at a Time.

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Speaker 1: Owen explains why he thinks it's a film for our times,

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Speaker 1: and we'll hear from jem Oswad, Variety's music maestro. He

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Speaker 1: reflects on the retirement of Sylvia Rohne, the veteran label

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Speaker 1: executive who has been a pioneer in so many ways.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, here are a few

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Speaker 1: headlines just in this morning day you need to know.

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Speaker 1: By now, most people know that Jimmy Kimmel is back

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Speaker 1: on ABC tonight, Next Star and Sinclair stations are still

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Speaker 1: going to preempt the show that will hurt his ratings

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Speaker 1: in key markets. Kimmel typically brings in about one point

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Speaker 1: eight million to two million viewers a night. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go out on a limb and say that tonight's

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Speaker 1: number will be closer to four million, even with significant

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Speaker 1: station losses. Speaking of ratings, Nielsen's monthly media distributor Gauge

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Speaker 1: is out this morning. It measures share of viewing among

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Speaker 1: big platforms. For the month of August. YouTube was still

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Speaker 1: on top in the United States with thirteen point one

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Speaker 1: percent of total viewing. Disney is number two with nine

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Speaker 1: point seven percent, and Netflix was number three at eight

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Speaker 1: point seven percent. People are talking about Rachel Maddow's interview

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Speaker 1: on Monday Night with Kamala Harris about Harris's new memoir

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Speaker 1: one hundred and seven Days. Variety's Dan Didario, in a

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Speaker 1: column that posts last night, called the sit down quote

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Speaker 1: ghuily sympathetic end quote. All of those stories and so

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Speaker 1: much more can be found on Variety dot com. Right now,

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Speaker 1: Now we turn to conversations with Variety journalists about news

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Speaker 1: and trends in show business. There's a big, ambitious, new

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Speaker 1: adult drama coming to the multiplexes this weekend. It's called

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Speaker 1: One Battle After Another. It stars Leonardo DiCaprio and Tayana Taylor,

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Speaker 1: and it is very much a film for this frat

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Speaker 1: moment in America. Owen explains why that is and why

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Speaker 1: it works so well. Owen Gleiberman, thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Good to be here, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: If there's a movie that people are talking about, I

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Speaker 1: always want to know your perspective. This is absolutely going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the falls most talked about films,

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Speaker 1: and it's a big, big swing from Warner Brothers, Leonardo DiCaprio,

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Speaker 1: Paul Thomas Anderson firepower in the cast start by sort

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Speaker 1: of telling us set the scene for us on what

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Speaker 1: the story is.

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Speaker 2: One battle after another is a movie set in an

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Speaker 2: authoritarian America that feels in many ways like what this

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Speaker 2: one could be turning into. The film is actually rather

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Speaker 2: uncanny projection of what it feels like it could be

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Speaker 2: like here in a few years, not the present day.

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Speaker 2: But it's not a future movie either. It's very much

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Speaker 2: rooted in the here and now. It's about that regime.

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Speaker 2: It's about these revolutionary guerrillas who are up against it

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Speaker 2: and turn out to not have much of a chance

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Speaker 2: to really succeed, and it's also about this kind of

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Speaker 2: strange but absolutely fascinating love triangle between one of the

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Speaker 2: rebel leaders played by Tianna Taylor, the demolition's expert played

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Speaker 2: by DiCaprio that she becomes partners with, and then this uptight,

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Speaker 2: sadistic army colonel played by Sean Penn who becomes obsessed

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Speaker 2: with the rebel leader and captures her and sleeps with

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Speaker 2: her and gets her pregnant, and the daughter ends up

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Speaker 2: being raised by DiCaprio, And it's about how that triangle

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Speaker 2: kind of plays out against the backdrop of this very

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Speaker 2: serious authoritarian.

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Speaker 1: And it is set in America. I mean it is

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Speaker 1: set in a place with fifty states and the trappings

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Speaker 1: of America.

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Speaker 2: Very much set in America. It is not some wild

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Speaker 2: phantasmagorical alternative reality. It's an active world building where Paul

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Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson has built the world that we're in, but

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Speaker 2: just a heightened version of it. But you talk about

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Speaker 2: a movie that people will be talking about, but it

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Speaker 2: would really be hard to think of a film in

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Speaker 2: recent years that hit the zeitgeist jackpop the way that

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Speaker 2: this one does. Paul Thomas Anderson took the Thomas Pinchion

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Speaker 2: novel Vineland and a in authoritarian state that looks quite

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Speaker 2: authentically like with this country could be heading toward.

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Speaker 1: What do you think Paul Thomas Anderson was trying to

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Speaker 1: say with this movie?

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Speaker 2: There is something almost karmic about the timing of it.

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Speaker 2: When he completed this film, Donald Trump had not taken

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Speaker 2: office yet. He wasn't predicting that that was going to happen.

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Speaker 2: But I think he really wanted to take the temperature

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Speaker 2: of where America is right now. And I think this

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Speaker 2: is the kind of movie that people are going to

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Speaker 2: be flocking to and talking about as something that really

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Speaker 2: matters in a way that's very rare now in the

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Speaker 2: movie landscape. I mean, really, if you were going to

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Speaker 2: think of examples, you'd have to go back to something

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Speaker 2: like All the President's Men or Network something like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, when Civil War came out last year, that

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Speaker 2: a twenty four movie that was sort of the toy

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Speaker 2: version of this. It felt very abstract, It hadn't really

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Speaker 2: been thought through. I didn't think it really seemed to

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Speaker 2: capture the dueling factions in America or we didn't feel

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Speaker 2: that deep. This movie is really an immersion what's happening now.

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Speaker 2: All you have to do is listen to some of

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Speaker 2: the Charlie Kirk funeral to see that this is a

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Speaker 2: portrayal of something that really is going on in the

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Speaker 2: country right now, and I think that people are going

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Speaker 2: to watch it with a real hush of recognition. I

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Speaker 2: also think that the movie is almost coming out at

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Speaker 2: the perfect week, to be honest with you, because I

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Speaker 2: do think there is this feeling that the Jimmy Kimmel

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Speaker 2: story is an inflection point in our country, and in

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Speaker 2: a rather ironic way. Namely, it just seems that a

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Speaker 2: lot of Americans have basically said during the Trump presidency

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Speaker 2: so far, we don't care that much about the crackdown

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Speaker 2: on law firms and higher education, and the fading of

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Speaker 2: NATO and the rounding up of immigrants and the cozing

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Speaker 2: up to Vladimir pof But if you start messing with

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Speaker 2: what we want to watch on TV, we are going

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Speaker 2: to have a problem with that. That does seem to

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Speaker 2: be almost the cutting edge of freedom. I think for

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Speaker 2: Americans they do not want their entertainment taken away. That

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Speaker 2: may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's hugely symbolic.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Owen Gleiberman. As I sit

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Speaker 1: here in West la and you sit there in Manhattan,

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Speaker 1: how do you think this is going to play in

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Speaker 1: places far away from where we are in the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: in the South. Do you think people are going to say, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's Hollywood liberals shaking their fingers at us again.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the fascinating things about how

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Speaker 2: one battle after another is going to play out is

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Speaker 2: that it is getting the kind of rave reviews that

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Speaker 2: I think really send a movie out there. The critics

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Speaker 2: kind of act together and send a message that tells people,

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Speaker 2: this is such an extraordinary movie that you have to

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Speaker 2: see it. I think that people will listen, and I

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Speaker 2: think they're gonna go. And by bay, I mean everybody,

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Speaker 2: including I think a lot of people from the right,

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Speaker 2: the kinds of people who would normally shun what they

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Speaker 2: see as a liberal movie or maybe a movie like

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Speaker 2: Civil War. This movie feels like such a referendum on

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Speaker 2: what's going on right now, and it isn't so judgmental.

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Speaker 2: For instance, it's clearly anti authoritarian. But Paul Thomas Anderson,

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Speaker 2: in his incredible filmmaking Instinct and Humanity, does not hold

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Speaker 2: up the revolutionary guerrillas in this movie in some pious way.

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Speaker 2: He kind of mocks them at times. He shows that

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Speaker 2: they're very naive, and I think there's something inviting about that.

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Speaker 1: Does it surprise you that Paul Thomas Anderson is the

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Speaker 1: writer director that is delivering this at this moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, it surprises me only in the sense that Paul

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Speaker 2: Thomas Anderson takes wild swings that I really respect, goes

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Speaker 2: off in a different direction each time, so he's completely unpredictable.

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Speaker 2: But I am in a rather different camp from almost

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Speaker 2: all critics when it comes to Paul Thomas Anderson in

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Speaker 2: that I started out as, if I can say this,

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Speaker 2: I considered myself almost the foremost critical champion of Boogie Nights.

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Speaker 2: I just went to back for that movie. I fell

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Speaker 2: in love with it. I saw it more than thirty times.

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Speaker 2: I felt that it was saying something. I find his

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Speaker 2: movies interesting. They have not bowled me over the way

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Speaker 2: that Boogie Knights did and Magnolia to a degree. This

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Speaker 2: movie to me is his return to form, because he's

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Speaker 2: always had his extraordinary craft as a filmmaker, but I

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Speaker 2: think here he has his full humanity, which is what

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Speaker 2: I think the calling card of those early films were

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Speaker 2: it is in the end about the DiCaprio characters trying

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Speaker 2: to rescue his daughter. It's very moving in that regard.

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Speaker 2: It may connect in a new way for Paul Thomas Anderson,

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Speaker 2: and it certainly connects for me in a way that

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Speaker 2: his films haven't in a long time.

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Speaker 1: Owen. I am glad that in your estimation Paul Thomas

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Speaker 1: Anderson has his boogie back on. You've done your job,

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Speaker 1: because I cannot wait to see this movie.

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Speaker 2: It's exciting to be reminded that movies can still really matter.

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Speaker 1: Now we'll hear from jem Oswad on the incredible career

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Speaker 1: of Sylvia Ron. Ron started as a secretary in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies at Buddha Records. She steps down after decades

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Speaker 1: of leading some of the biggest music companies in the world.

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Speaker 1: Jem Oswod, Variety's head of Music, thanks for joining me today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me as always, Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: Big big news in the music world, in the label

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Speaker 1: management world. Sylvia Rone is a name that has been

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Speaker 1: in Variety's pages for more than forty years. She has

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Speaker 1: been a force in the music industry for decades across

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Speaker 1: multiple label groups. She's truly one of the most influential executives,

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Speaker 1: and she happens to be a black woman, and she

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Speaker 1: was a black woman rising through the ranks and leading

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Speaker 1: organizations big organizations at a time when you just did

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Speaker 1: not see that. So the news of her resignation that

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Speaker 1: was released today was certainly it signifies a big passing,

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Speaker 1: not just for the music industry but for the entertainment

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Speaker 1: industry at large, because she is such a well known figure. Jem,

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Speaker 1: what was your first thought when this news came into

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Speaker 1: your inbox?

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Speaker 3: The first thought was that it was a surprise, but

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Speaker 3: not necessarily a shock. Sylvia is seventy three years old.

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Speaker 3: She started in the nineteen seventies as an assistant at

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Speaker 3: Buddha Records, where the flagship artist was Gladys Knight in

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Speaker 3: the Pips. She was the only black woman at the

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Speaker 3: head of a major label, and I don't mean subsidiaries,

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Speaker 3: I mean a major, major label, and you don't see

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Speaker 3: much of that these days anymore either, let alone women

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Speaker 3: at the tops of these labels. It's a very disturbing

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Speaker 3: trend in the music industry that women CEOs, women presidents

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Speaker 3: are being replaced by men. Now there has been no

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Speaker 3: replacement named it Epic Records yet. In the meantime, it

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Speaker 3: will be run by Zeke Lewis, who is the president,

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Speaker 3: and Rick Sackheim who's the general manager. And I think

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Speaker 3: they're going to take their time to find the right

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Speaker 3: person to do it because the company it's running quite

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Speaker 3: well with artists like Travis Scott and Zara Larson and

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Speaker 3: Tyler and Madison Beer and Meghan Trainor and twenty one

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Speaker 3: Savage and people like that future as well.

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Speaker 1: And Jim remind us her first CEO post that was

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Speaker 1: at Elektra Records was.

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Speaker 3: That right, That's where she was first named CEO, But

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Speaker 3: she had been at Atlantic Records, which was an affiliated label.

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Speaker 3: They were both Warner labels and still are. But she

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Speaker 3: was senior vice president of Black Music and she worked

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Speaker 3: with everyone from ROBERTA. Flack and Donnie Hathaway to Brandy

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Speaker 3: to Dos Effects. Her big breakthrough our Artist in nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety three ninety four was en Vogue you know, free

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Speaker 3: your Mind and the rest will follow. Lots of hits

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Speaker 3: like that. That was really her signature artist, and she

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Speaker 3: was also I'm not gonna lie. She was feared that

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Speaker 3: the you know, especially in the nineties, and you know,

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Speaker 3: that toughness really did serve her well as a business person.

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Speaker 1: It was her group that had Red Hot rapper Travis

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Speaker 1: Scott do a deal with Fortnite to be in that

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Speaker 1: virtual reality video game, and that it just seems like

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Speaker 1: she's got that sea around corner's quality that is really

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Speaker 1: important in CEOs. Looking over her bio, she took the

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Speaker 1: helm of Motown Records in the late nineteen nineties, and

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Speaker 1: of course Motown a storied label. It's literally synonymous with

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Speaker 1: a particular type of music, particularly American type of pop

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Speaker 1: and R and B. But at the time she took

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Speaker 1: it over, you know, Barry Gordy had left. It was

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Speaker 1: long past the glory days that established Motown. It was

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Speaker 1: a difficult time for the music business in general. The

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Speaker 1: words napster was on everybody's lips and all kinds of

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Speaker 1: craziness ensued. What impact did she have on Motown at

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Speaker 1: that time?

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Speaker 3: Multiple significant artists came out of it when she took over,

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Speaker 3: and she did manage to invigorate it. She brought in

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Speaker 3: some very strong young executives and a lot of very

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Speaker 3: strong young artists as well. I don't think She did

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Speaker 3: the deal directly herself, but they dealt directly with Cash

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Speaker 3: Money Records, which had such enormous artists as Lil Wayne

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Speaker 3: and Nicki Minaj and Drake Litt. Bit Later, under her

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Speaker 3: own umbrella there was Rika Bado, Kid, Cuddy Acon Nelly.

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Speaker 1: Let's hope right now that there is an assistant somewhere

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Speaker 1: working really hard at a startup music label that is

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Speaker 1: going to grow up to be the next Sylvia Ron.

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Speaker 3: And not for nothing. She was a CEO at all

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Speaker 3: three major label groups, at Warner, at Universal and at Sony,

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Speaker 3: and very few people can say that.

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Speaker 1: She's the Fred Silver of the music business. TV lovers

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Speaker 1: will get that one. Let's give Sylvia Rome the last

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Speaker 1: word in this segment. Here's a clip from her twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen interview with The Pokou of the UK's Wie Suite.

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Speaker 4: I've been in the business almost forty years and my

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Speaker 4: successes and my growth have always been based on my performance.

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Speaker 4: So and in the music business you're only as good

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Speaker 4: as your last three minutes and twenty seconds, so you're

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Speaker 4: always feeling that pressure. And I was able to go

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Speaker 4: from Atlantic and start a new label called East West

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Speaker 4: Records that I had given a proposal to the chairman

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Speaker 4: of Atlantic, and in the first year we lost fifteen

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Speaker 4: million dollars and in the second year we made one

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Speaker 4: hundred and fifty million dollars. So that kind of set

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Speaker 4: me up for the next big promotion, which was to

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Speaker 4: be chairman of Electra Records, and that was probably my

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Speaker 4: mosts productive as well as exciting time in the business.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for. Variety's Power of Women Los Angeles is

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Speaker 1: set for October twenty ninth. Jamie Lee Curtis, Kate Hudson,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Scherzinger, Sidney Sweeney, and Wanda Sykes are this year's honorees.

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Speaker 1: Much more to come on this and we are really

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it. Variety just wrapped up our coverage

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Speaker 1: of the Busan Film Festival in South Korea. Now we're

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Speaker 1: off to San Sebastian and Spain to produce digital dailies

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Speaker 1: at that festival through the end of this week before

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Speaker 1: we go. Congrats to Sophia Coppola, the writer director will

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Speaker 1: be honored by the Museum of Modern Art at its

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five film Benefit, and that is set for

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Speaker 1: November twelfth. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: This episode was.

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Speaker 1: Written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from

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Speaker 1: Owen Gleiberman and Jim aswad Stick Snick's hick Picks. Please

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Speaker 1: leave us a review at the podcast platform of your choice,

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Speaker 1: and please tune in tomorrow for another episode of Daily

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Speaker 1: Variety