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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to Legally Brunette Presents Till Death Do

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Speaker 1: Us Part, where we talk about cases in which wives

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Speaker 1: try to get rid of their husbands or husbands trying

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Speaker 1: to get rid of their wives. And today we're going

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Speaker 1: to do an update on the Gerhardt Koenig trial. We

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Speaker 1: talked about it last week, so if you didn't listen

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Speaker 1: to the episode, you should go back and listen to it,

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Speaker 1: because again, I feel like you'd have to live under

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Speaker 1: a rock to not have at least no a little

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Speaker 1: bit or have seen his face out there. This is

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Speaker 1: the case of the doctor. He's an antesthesiologist who tried

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Speaker 1: to push his wife. Allegedly he did it, tried to

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Speaker 1: he allegedly tried to push his wife, did the Palipuka

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Speaker 1: trail in Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: He at tempted and he failed.

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Speaker 1: He failed miserably. And the trial has been going on,

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Speaker 1: and we left off last week where we were recorded

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Speaker 1: an episode. Ariel had taken the stand and then also

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Speaker 1: the witness, and there were some other people that had testified,

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Speaker 1: but at the time that we recorded it, Gerhard had

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Speaker 1: not taken the stand, and we were also contemplating whether

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Speaker 1: his son was going to take the stand and testify.

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Speaker 2: Well, we heard he was.

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Speaker 1: We heard he was.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to believe, right.

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Speaker 1: And we didn't know, I mean, we didn't know if

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Speaker 1: he was going to testify against his dad or what.

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Speaker 1: But now we know, so let's talk about it. Gerhardt

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Speaker 1: took the stand in his own defense, admitting that he

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Speaker 1: struck his wife with a rock during their hike, but

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Speaker 1: he claimed that he was acting in self defense after

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Speaker 1: she allegedly tried to push him off the cliff and

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Speaker 1: attacked him first. So obviously, if his his whole defense

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Speaker 1: to this trial is self defense, he's going to have

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Speaker 1: to testify on his own behalf because obviously he's the

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Speaker 1: only person that can testify as to what he claims happened.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think about him testifying on his

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Speaker 1: own behalf?

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Speaker 3: Usually when a defendant testifies, generally speaking, it's likely against

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Speaker 3: the advice of their attorney, generally speaking. But they are

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Speaker 3: such a narcissist and they think they can talk their

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Speaker 3: way out of it, and they think that they're such

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Speaker 3: such a charming person that they can they can get.

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Speaker 1: To the jury, they can convince that, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they're not gonna let her. He's not gonna let

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Speaker 3: her get the word in. He's gonna tell it like

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 2: That's what I think.

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Speaker 1: So when he was testified, he denied trying to kill her,

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Speaker 1: and he denied having the syringes during the incident. Remember

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Speaker 1: how when she testified, she claimed that after he tried

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Speaker 1: to push her to the edge, and then she grabbed

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Speaker 1: onto a tree branch, and then he grabbed her by

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Speaker 1: the arms, and then they wrestled a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: then she fell to the ground. She claimed that he

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Speaker 1: straddled her and that he reached down and pulled a

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Speaker 1: syringe out that but the syringe was never found at

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Speaker 1: the scene of the crime. Obviously, when he ran after

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Speaker 1: she got hit in the head with the rock and

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Speaker 1: the two hikers came along and helped her down the trail.

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Speaker 1: He could have easily picked up those syringes and got

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Speaker 1: in a.

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Speaker 3: Wet vegetated area like that. I mean, a little syringe

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Speaker 3: tosses it somewhere far away, it's going to be tough

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Speaker 3: to find.

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Speaker 1: He said that the confrontation stemmed from their marital tensions

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Speaker 1: after discovering her. I love how we always called it

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Speaker 1: an emotional affair. It's very every article I've ever read

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Speaker 1: about this case always talks about how she had an

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Speaker 1: affair with a co worker, but it's always an emotional affair.

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Speaker 1: Koenig also testified, I.

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Speaker 2: Get emotional tonight, babe.

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Speaker 1: I mean this, would you like to have an emotional emotional.

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Speaker 2: Eythings such bull crab.

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Speaker 3: It's like, there's no evidence that actually sleeping together, so

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Speaker 3: we need to say it was just emotion.

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Speaker 1: It was an emotional affair.

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Speaker 2: No exchanging of bodily fluid.

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Speaker 1: Koenig also testified about feeling quote severe emotional distress after

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Speaker 1: hurting his wife and said he contemplated suicide. So this

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Speaker 1: was him on the stand in his own defense. Probably,

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Speaker 1: like you said, was such a huge ego, and he's

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Speaker 1: such a narcissist that I'm sure he truly believes that

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Speaker 1: he can convince the jury of his genuine feelings, and

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Speaker 1: that she attacked him first and tried to push him

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Speaker 1: off the cliff, and he was only hitting her in

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Speaker 1: the head with a law of a rock because he

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Speaker 1: was acting in self defense, because he was truly scared

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Speaker 1: for his life. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Then his son testified Emil, so Emil only referred to

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Speaker 1: his father. I don't know if you noticed this, if

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Speaker 1: you saw any of the testimony, Yeah, but he only

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Speaker 1: refers to his father as the defendant throughout the entire testimony.

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Speaker 1: Emil said that his father believed Ariel had been unfaithful,

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Speaker 1: and he told him he wouldn't be returning to Maui.

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Speaker 1: Gerhard asked Emil to care for his younger siblings. This

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Speaker 1: is when he's testifying that after the incident, his dad

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Speaker 1: called him via FaceTime. He also testified that his father

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Speaker 1: face timed him again the way, why.

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Speaker 2: Would he think that his son would want to hear.

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Speaker 1: That, hear that or protect him or any.

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Speaker 3: Of the above, Like why would he think that that's

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Speaker 3: what he needed to do if it was his buddy

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Speaker 3: and his buddy was going to help him kill her,

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Speaker 3: and like was in on it, like his partner that way,

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Speaker 3: or his mistress that was in on it.

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Speaker 2: I could see that. Why would you think to call

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Speaker 2: his son?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what kind of relationship

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Speaker 1: he had with his older son. I believe he's nineteen,

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Speaker 1: But maybe he felt like they had a good father's

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Speaker 1: son relationship and his son wasn't gonna wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: turn on him. I don't know, And maybe he was

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Speaker 1: in such an emotional state because he didn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do. Can you imagine how frazzle.

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Speaker 2: I think of it.

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Speaker 3: He really didn't know what he was doing. He just

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Speaker 3: needed to reach out someone. He was just a mess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because imagine how frazzled he is. Because from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go with this is premeditated. He knew

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Speaker 1: what he was going to do. He picked that trail.

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Speaker 1: I believe there's forensic evidence of him doing doing searches

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Speaker 1: for trails and whole that had, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, cliffs, you know, where to a syringe.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so I believe that, you know, he had every

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Speaker 1: intention of pushing her off of the cliff that day

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Speaker 1: and then claiming that they were just taking a selfie

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Speaker 1: and she slipped. And I'm sure in his mind he

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Speaker 1: thought it was very simple. He thought, we're just going

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Speaker 1: to go out on this trailiffs and we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: take a selfie as close to the edge as we can,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just going to push her off, and then

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be the distraw husband that's crying and says,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we were taking a selfie and she fell,

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Speaker 1: And but what happened was. She fought her way and

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Speaker 1: then he didn't know what to do. Was tougher than

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Speaker 1: he thought, right, So then I think he freaked out,

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Speaker 1: picked up a rock, starts beating her on the head,

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Speaker 1: and then some hikers come along and for that, No,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't plan for any of that, So he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know what to do. This guy's a can you

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Speaker 1: imagine what state of mind he's in.

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Speaker 3: He just runs hide the syringe. Yeah, he succeeded in

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Speaker 3: that exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I do believe that there was a syringe because a.

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Speaker 2: Blue plunger she described it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way that she went through all

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Speaker 1: of that and then created like a fake narrative about

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Speaker 1: a syringe in the middle of it. Like that makes

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Speaker 1: no sense at all. It's enough just to say he

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Speaker 1: tried to push her off the edge and then he

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Speaker 1: beat her with the rock.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fine, let's we'll disregard the syringe. You can have

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Speaker 3: that one. Mister Koenig or what's his name, Tonig?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, his name's Gerhart last Kronig.

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Speaker 2: Killer. We'll call him killer.

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Speaker 3: And when I saw that defend the son against the defendant,

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Speaker 3: he seemed like he didn't give a crap about his dad.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't emotional.

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Speaker 3: He was just like, yeah, that dude over there, Yeah

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Speaker 3: he's a killer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, put him in jail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah he did this to me, like he called me

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Speaker 3: like he did not, like he was over he was

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Speaker 3: checked out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're saying because we've seen other people, like even

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Speaker 1: in the Corey Richm's case we were talking about when

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend testified against her.

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Speaker 2: I didn't see that one.

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Speaker 1: I did, but he was an emotional wreck. You could

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Speaker 1: tell he did not want to do that. So it

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Speaker 1: was very he had a hard time.

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Speaker 2: Like the son, Yeah, the woman that he was in

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Speaker 2: love with.

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Speaker 1: Was killer and then he had to testify, whereas.

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Speaker 3: This guy was not like it sucks that my dad's

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Speaker 3: a killer. No, he's like, I want nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with that dude.

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Speaker 1: Right, So he does FaceTime again a second time, roughly

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Speaker 1: an hour later, and said he was going to jump

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Speaker 1: off the cliff before police could catch him. That's an

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Speaker 1: account that contradicts Gerhardt's self defense claim because obviously, well.

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Speaker 3: Every bit of evidence contradicts his self defense claim.

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Speaker 1: Well, they had a forensic some type of forensic person

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Speaker 1: testify that apparently Ariel had claimed or her team or

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Speaker 1: the prosecution or whatever had claimed that she had been

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Speaker 1: hit in the head like ten times, and then they

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Speaker 1: had a forensic expert testify on behalf of the defense,

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Speaker 1: claiming that she was really only hit two to three times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know what, in all that struggling, I

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Speaker 3: imagine it's possible forensically that they can show that that

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Speaker 3: lava rock, which we discussed last week as being sharp,

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Speaker 3: hit and made contact and made what do you call it,

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Speaker 3: like abrasion lacerations, lacerations two to three times or whatever

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Speaker 3: it was. But in all that struggling, maybe there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of wailing of the arms and she was

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Speaker 3: kind of getting smacked around a little bit, but not

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Speaker 3: necessarily like sharp contact was made to her head, like

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Speaker 3: it might have been the back of his hand or something.

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Speaker 3: So excuse her for not having counted the amount of

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Speaker 3: times the lava rock came in direct contact with her

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Speaker 3: head resulting in lacerations.

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Speaker 1: Well, what they're trying to do is they're just trying

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Speaker 1: to say that she exaggerates, that she's embellishing what happened.

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Speaker 3: That bodycm footage of blood all over her face didn't

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Speaker 3: exaggerate anything.

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Speaker 1: Right, All right, Well, we will continue to follow the

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Speaker 1: Koenig trial. I'm not sure how much longer. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we're towards the end of this trial and we're

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Speaker 1: going to end up with a verdict relatively soon, so

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Speaker 1: we will keep you informed.

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Speaker 2: Likely a guilty verdict.

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Speaker 1: Likely a guilty verdict. I can't do.

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Speaker 3: What's the defense against the sun. That's not true. My

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Speaker 3: son's lying. It's not looking good for this dude.

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Speaker 1: It does not look good. All right, let's move on

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Speaker 1: to John List. I don't know if you've ever heard

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Speaker 1: of this. This is an older case. Actually, this case

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Speaker 1: fascinates me because I'm sure I've told you all this before,

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Speaker 1: but I'm a huge fan of forensic files. There actually

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Speaker 1: is Forensic Files one and two, and these are all,

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Speaker 1: I believe the original forensic files. I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of the cases are like in the ninety or

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Speaker 1: was it made in the nineties, probably, and then then

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Speaker 1: Forensic Files two it's more like two thousands.

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Speaker 3: I don't know when it was made. I just know

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Speaker 3: it airs and it's a timeless classic.

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Speaker 1: It is a classic. I love forensic files. If you

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Speaker 1: don't get excited with.

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Speaker 2: That intro stamp on that when that intro comes on.

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Speaker 1: And she snaps the glasses down in the in the

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Speaker 1: lab like the you know what I mean where I

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Speaker 1: fast forward the intro? No, you got to watch the intro.

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Speaker 1: The best part of Forensic Files is the introthing like that, right,

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Speaker 1: all right? So this is John List and this is

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Speaker 1: I would say this is probably one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: forensic files. It really sticks out in my mind. That's

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Speaker 1: why I wanted to go through it because it's perfect.

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Speaker 1: I do. I love forensic Files. I feel like we

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Speaker 1: should do a Forensic.

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Speaker 2: Files recap recap because.

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Speaker 1: I just just love it. Love forensic files anyway. Also

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Speaker 1: Forensic Files, I don't know why, but there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of episodes that take place in Ohio. So that's just

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Speaker 1: a fun fact about Forensic Files. So John List appeared

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Speaker 1: to live a perfect religious family life in New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: You gotta love those perfect religious lives. You always know

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Speaker 1: there's something coming up that's going to be dark. But

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Speaker 1: after secretly losing his job in nineteen seventy one, he

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Speaker 1: murdered his wife, three children, and mother in a planned

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Speaker 1: attempt to save their souls from future suffering. He carefully

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Speaker 1: staged the scene and disappeared successfully evading capture for eighteen

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Speaker 1: years while living under a completely new identity. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, he was finally identified after being featured on

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Speaker 1: America's Most Wanted. That's why I love this Forensic Files too,

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Speaker 1: because they show the American They show the America's Most

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Speaker 1: Wanted clips with John Walsh, which is another great show.

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Speaker 1: I feel like they need to bring that back. I

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Speaker 1: think they are. I think I saw something.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, America's Most Wanted. Yeah, he has streaming stuff.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's what I saw.

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Speaker 1: In that world. Yeah. And then John Lyss was arrested

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Speaker 1: shortly after The America's Most Wanted aired. He was convicted

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety and sentenced to life in prison, where

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Speaker 1: he later died in two thousand and eight. So let's

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Speaker 1: go back through this guy's early life and family life.

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Speaker 1: So in nineteen twenty five, John Lyss was born. He

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Speaker 1: served in the US Army during World War Two. He

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Speaker 1: met his wife, Helen Morris Taylor. John and Helen had

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Speaker 1: three children, born between nineteen fifty five and fifty eight,

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Speaker 1: and then the Lists family relocates to Penfield, New York,

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Speaker 1: where John is employed by Xerox. They lived in this big,

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Speaker 1: beautiful home that had a ballroom and multiple bedrooms and

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Speaker 1: like this tiffany light and all kinds of things. So

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Speaker 1: I assumed that he made pretty good money. So in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five he loses his position at x ROX,

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Speaker 1: but then he goes on to purchase a large, eighteen

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Speaker 1: room mansion in Westfield, New Jersey. His mother, Alma, provides

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Speaker 1: the down payment, and then that allows her to move

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Speaker 1: in with them. That's a good way to be able

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Speaker 1: to move into your kid's house.

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Speaker 2: Oh say, I'll pay for it.

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Speaker 1: I'll pay for the down payment. I'll give you the

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Speaker 1: down payment for a house, but I have to live.

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Speaker 2: With you, and you would require a big down payment.

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Speaker 1: I would require a big down payment. What do you

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Speaker 1: mean The kids would say I had to pay. They

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Speaker 1: would say I had to pay for the whole house,

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Speaker 1: and then they still wouldn't let me live there. Between

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five five in nineteen seventy one, List works

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Speaker 1: as a commission based insurance salesman, but struggles professionally after

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Speaker 1: two prior jobs fall through. On the surface, the family

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Speaker 1: appeared wealthy, stable, and representative of the American.

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Speaker 2: Dream key term right there on the surface.

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Speaker 1: On the surface. That would be now in today's term.

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Speaker 1: On Instagram, it would be yes on Instagram. They appear

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Speaker 1: wealthy and stay on Instagram.

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Speaker 3: This dog appears friendly in your life. This dog is dangerous.

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Speaker 1: The List family was deeply religious There's another red Flag

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Speaker 1: and attended church regularly as devout Lutherans. John Liss even

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Speaker 1: taught Sunday school. In nineteen seventy, his wife Helen, received

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Speaker 1: treatment for worsening cognitive issues, later diagnosed as tertiary syphilis OOH.

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Speaker 1: Tertiary syphilis is a severe, late stage and non infectious

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Speaker 1: form of untreated syphialis typically developing ten to thirty years

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Speaker 1: after the initial infection. It causes significant damage to organs,

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Speaker 1: including the brain, heart, eyes, and bones. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how she ended up getting syphilis, but maybe it was

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Speaker 1: from John, I don't know. So he pretends to go

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Speaker 1: to work each day, and instead of going to work,

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Speaker 1: he spends his days at the train station reading newspapers.

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Speaker 1: He's not even looking for another job. That's the part

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Speaker 1: that baffles my mind is instead of like, okay, so

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Speaker 1: he's going to pretend that he's going to work every day,

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Speaker 1: he's going to lie to his family and not tell

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Speaker 1: them that he lost his job. But instead of pretending

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Speaker 1: like you're going to work every day and then going

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Speaker 1: to look for another job, he just goes to the

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Speaker 1: train station and reads the newspaper.

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Speaker 2: He looks maybe.

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Speaker 1: He secretly took money from his mother's bank accounts to

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Speaker 1: keep up with expenses, and he refused to apply for

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Speaker 1: welfare because of pride and fear of embarrassment. During this

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Speaker 1: time period, he became increasingly overwhelmed by financial pressure and expectations. Then,

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Speaker 1: on October fourteenth of nineteen seventy one, John applied for

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Speaker 1: a gun permit, saying he needs a gun for home protection. Then,

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Speaker 1: in early November of nineteen seventy one, John's daughter Patricia

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Speaker 1: reportedly tells her drama coach that her father has threatened

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Speaker 1: to kill her family. All right, So then he comes

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Speaker 1: up with a plan of how to deal with the

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Speaker 1: finances and the embarrassment of having to go on welfare

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Speaker 1: and the embarrassment of not having a job. He decides

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Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to murder his entire family.

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Speaker 1: So on November ninth of nineteen seventy one, John Liss

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Speaker 1: murders his entire family. First, he shoots his wife Helen.

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Speaker 1: I believe, she's sitting at a table drinking coffee, and

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Speaker 1: I think the kid's already left for school, and he

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Speaker 1: shoots her z he kills her. Then he goes upstairs

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Speaker 1: and his mother is in bed. He shoots her in bed.

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Speaker 1: Then his daughter, Patricia I believe, comes home from school,

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Speaker 1: he shoots her. John comes home from school, he shoots him.

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Speaker 1: And then the last son I believe, had some kind

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Speaker 1: of like game or something. He was in sports, So

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Speaker 1: I think John actually went and watched him play sports

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Speaker 1: while the whole family's dead. So everybody's dead in the house.

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Speaker 1: He goes to the son's game I believe, and watches him,

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Speaker 1: drives him home, and then shoots him. So now the

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Speaker 1: whole entire family is dead. He then moves all of

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Speaker 1: them into the ballroom well, and he spends the night

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Speaker 1: in the house first, so everybody's dead in the house,

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Speaker 1: stays the night in the house. I don't know he

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Speaker 1: should have, but he kills his whole family, and then

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Speaker 1: he moves them all into the ballroom and wraps him

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Speaker 1: in sleeping bags. He even attended his son's soccer game

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Speaker 1: before bringing him home and shooting him. Several times in

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Speaker 1: the chest and the face.

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Speaker 2: How do you do that?

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Speaker 1: How are you just a normal family man who goes

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Speaker 1: to church every Sunday and teaches Sunday school and has

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Speaker 1: three children and a wife and a mom.

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Speaker 2: He's not a normal fan. Do you not see that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: But how do you pretend to be a normal family man?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is he normal? And then something happens?

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Speaker 3: Partly why I asked how long it was? But the

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Speaker 3: time he lost his job, from the time he went

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Speaker 3: and got a gun. How long was he reading those newspapers?

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Speaker 3: Maybe went crazy so.

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Speaker 1: Within that time period, or maybe he was always crazy

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Speaker 1: and then he was triggered, or maybe he wasn't crazy

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it was his mom living with him.

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Speaker 1: Who knows. You think it was the mom living with him.

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Speaker 2: You think that's what pushed him over there when he killed.

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Speaker 1: No, the wife was the first when he killed. He

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Speaker 1: killed his wife first and then he killed his.

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Speaker 2: Mom, the two women in his life.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he killed them first, all right, So in November

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Speaker 1: to December of nineteen seventy one, this is how John

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00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 1: lyss covers up this crime and escapes.

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Speaker 2: So you never plan on killing himself.

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Speaker 1: No, that was not part of the plan.

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Speaker 3: He was just going to kill the people that he

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Speaker 3: thought would be embarrassed in front of Yeah, right, then

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Speaker 3: he wasn't embarrassed of killing everyone.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: And I guess because he was such a devout Christian.

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Speaker 1: I always love how people were use religion Christian killers, right,

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Speaker 1: Like even when we talk about other cases where people

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Speaker 1: were like, I can't get divorced, it's against my religion,

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Speaker 1: so I'll just I'll just murder my spouse. But I guess.

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Speaker 1: And he had such a reputation in the community, and

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Speaker 1: he was an upstanding.

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Speaker 2: They say, that's exactly what it is.

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00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: It's it's reputation.

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Speaker 2: It's fear of people, not fear of God.

399
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Speaker 3: Right, He's worried about what people are going to think

400
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,159
Speaker 3: of him, not what really you know.

401
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: Right, So, after the murders took place, he spends the

402
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 1: night in the house and then he places the bodies

403
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,959
Speaker 1: and the mansion's ballroom on sleeping bags. He wrote a

404
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: detailed letter to his pastor explaining his actions. In the letter,

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Speaker 1: he claims that he killed his family in order to

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Speaker 1: save their souls from moral corruption. I don't believe that

407
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 1: crap for one minute. I just think he was just

408
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Speaker 1: embarrassed by the financial situation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, killed him for more.

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00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 1: He couldn't afford his lifestyle, he couldn't afford the house.

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Speaker 1: He was skimming money from his mother. He couldn't keep

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00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: doing that for long. So he's like, how do I

413
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: get out of this? I'll just kill my family. He

414
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: carefully cleaned the crime scene and attempt to delay discovery

415
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: because he needs time to get away, right, And he

416
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Speaker 1: removed This part cracks me up. He removed his face

417
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: from all of the family photographs to make identification of

418
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 1: him more difficult. So he went around in the house

419
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 1: and every photograph that he's in he cuts his face

420
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: out of.

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00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 3: It, and so like, as if that's key evidence, Like

422
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 3: detectives use family photos like to try to find the suspect.

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00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the seventies, so I guess there

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00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 1: isn't there's not a digital footprint of this man.

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Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, you're right, it was seventy one.

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Speaker 1: It's seventy one. So if he removes his photograph from

427
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Speaker 1: the house, but there's got.

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00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 3: To be other photographs. He went through every photograph, the

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Speaker 3: photograph album, and the other kids, probably Aaron. Where was

430
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Speaker 3: the where's oh he killed her.

431
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 1: He killed everybody. There's no one left. And he removes

432
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Speaker 1: all his photographs from the house. So I guess he

433
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: assumes that if there's no photographs of him, then there's

434
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: no way that they can put an idea of what

435
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: he looks like out there.

436
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 3: They also walk around with like a Karl Marx like glasses,

437
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: notes and mustache.

438
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:56,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, so no one can see him.

439
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 1: He contacted the kids square and said that the family

440
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 1: would be on vacation for two weeks.

441
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 2: They're in the ballroom, they won't be able to come

442
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 2: to school.

443
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, he needed time to get away

444
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 1: and start a new life, so he does all Maybe.

445
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 3: He should have planned all that when he was at

446
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 3: the bus station with the newspapers.

447
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: Well maybe he was planning of then that.

448
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: Maybe he was planning at them. I don't know. And

449
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: he needs more time, he well, he needs time to

450
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 1: evade capture. So if he gets rid of all his

451
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: photographs and then no one notices that the kids don't

452
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: show up to school. So he called and said the

453
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 1: kids are going to be on vacation for two weeks.

454
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: That means the school is not saying, oh where are

455
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: these kids? And the calling the police.

456
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: They're not taking a mom. Did she work?

457
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: Do we know? Well? His mother was eighty something, and

458
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: his wife, I doubt worked, so no one's missing her

459
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: at work. The mother lives with them, she's eighty four.

460
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe they don't show up for church.

461
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. He turned the air conditioning on high

462
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: so that they didn't decompose quickly, so that there wouldn't

463
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: be a smell. He left lights on and played music

464
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: throughout the house to make it seem occupied, so that

465
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: people weren't being like, oh, there's something we're going on.

466
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anybody go in and out. He left

467
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: music on, lights on, and air conditioning on high, and

468
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 1: then the next day he left the house and completely disappeared.

469
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: Weeks later, the neighbors became suspicious due to no activity

470
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: at the home. They're like, it's been the same song

471
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: over and over and over. Probably right. Police entered the

472
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: house on December seventh, nineteen seventy one. Now, remember, no.

473
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: It couldn't have been the same song over and over again.

474
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: I know, I'm just joking.

475
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 2: It was nineteen seventy one, so I just had to be

476
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 2: the radio.

477
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: Well, it said, he well, how did he play music

478
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one?

479
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 2: Radio?

480
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: Just a radio, There was no other way.

481
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: He put a record it, it would get to the

482
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: end of the track and it'd be done.

483
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: Well, maybe he just played a record and then it

484
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: got to the end of the track and it was done.

485
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: But he murdered his remember he murdered his entire family

486
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: on November ninth. The police do not enter the house

487
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: until December seventh, so he had almost a full month

488
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: to get away. So the police centered the house on

489
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: December seventh, nineteen seventy one, and they discovered the bodies.

490
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: They also found the letter in which Liszt explained the murders.

491
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: Religious music was still playing throughout the house. Well, how

492
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: did he do that? It says religious music? And so

493
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: religious music was playing in this house for all the while.

494
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: Radio station a religious radio station.

495
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 1: Christian rock in seventy one was Christian rock a thing

496
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: in seventy one. His car was later found at John F.

497
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: Kennedy International Airport. Despite this, there was no immediate trace

498
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: of him. Well, and they don't know what he looks

499
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: like because he got rid of all photographs, so nobody

500
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: can where They're like, we can't find it. We don't

501
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: know what he looks like.

502
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: Even better, he should have cut and pasted like someone

503
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 3: else's face.

504
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: That guy right, some neighbory he doesn't like. Yeah, there

505
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: was no immediate trace of him and the case went cold.

506
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: Oddly enough, the Lists family's mansion burnt down several months

507
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: after the murders. The cause of the fire was never determined,

508
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: and a new house was later built on the proper.

509
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know what that sucks.

510
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: For my my? You know, I would like to do

511
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: a legally brunette you know, tour road trip. We can, Yes,

512
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: we can't go to the John List mansion now because

513
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: it burned down.

514
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 2: And do you have on the list?

515
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 3: You have murdog Yes, I want to go have Beverly Hills.

516
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 3: Brothers were at.

517
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: The Menindaz brother's house. We definitely need to go to

518
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. Yeah, we should go to Corey Richan's mansion

519
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: in Utah that she bought because she wanted to live

520
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: in the guest house.

521
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: See what we drove by, Right.

522
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: We should go there. I don't know. Well, I'll make

523
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: a list. We'll talk about next episode. We'll have our

524
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 1: road trip planned out. John List remained missing for eighteen years.

525
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: After the murders, he moved to Colorado initially and then

526
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: later settled in Virginia. He applied for a Social Security

527
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: card using the name Robert P. Clark and gave a

528
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Denver motel as his address. In nineteen eighty five, he

529
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: gets remarried to Dolores Miller. The couple moved to Virginia

530
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, and he continued working as an

531
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: accountant while living a completely normal way.

532
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: So when he had a family, he didn't want to

533
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: get a job, and then after he kills his family,

534
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: he's like, Okay, I need to get a job.

535
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's what I'm saying. I don't know.

536
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: When he's sitting at the train station and looking at

537
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: the newspaper, was he trying to actively find a job

538
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: and then he couldn't find a job so he freaked

539
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: out and killed his family or did he just come

540
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: up with this plan that he's like, I'm not going

541
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: to get a job. I'm just going to kill my

542
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: family and I'm gonna run away and I'm going to start

543
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: a whole new life. I don't know. In nineteen eighty nine,

544
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: his case was featured on America's Most Wanted. A forensic

545
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: artist created an age progressed image of John List. But

546
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: listen this image that they created on America's Most Wanted.

547
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: They made a bust of him. It was not a pho.

548
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: How do they even know what he looked like? How

549
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 3: he cut all the photos out?

550
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: I don't know they.

551
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure they had to have found some photo or someone.

552
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, but they made Oh.

553
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: They had to have an aid. They found a child photo.

554
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: That's why they had doing age. Oh that's right, you're right,

555
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 2: Oh you remember.

556
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: It now, Well it was only five No, I'm just

557
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: figuring it out because you're telling me he killed them

558
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: in seventy one.

559
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they found him in what year?

560
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: His case is featured on America's Most Wanted in nineteen

561
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: eighty nine. And I love the clips of this because

562
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: they they don't do a sketch artist. It's not a

563
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: sketch artist. They make a artist. It's a bust artist.

564
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: They make an actual bust of him, and then it

565
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: talks about how this this artist that puts together this

566
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: bust of his image went to like he had to

567
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: go to all these places to find like the perfect

568
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: glasses because he wore like those.

569
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 2: Oh wasn't it the glasses that did it too? Yes,

570
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 2: I remember this one. Yeah, there you go. It was

571
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: like the glasses.

572
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 3: Like he spent a lot of time figuring out the glasses.

573
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: Glasses. What kind of glasses would a killer wear? You

574
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: found him?

575
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: It was those seventies style.

576
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: Right, But he had it.

577
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 3: He looked at his personality and looked at everything and

578
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 3: figured out what kind of glasses he would have.

579
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he found the exact ones that he wanted

580
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: and he put them on the bust. And then that

581
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: bust with the glasses was featured on America's Most Wanted.

582
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then someone was like, my neighbor has those glasses.

583
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: Yes, it wasn't just the glasses. Well, a neighbor recognized

584
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: him and reported him to authorities, and he was arrested

585
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: on June first of nineteen eighty nine.

586
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: And he had those glasses, he did, yeah, Yeah.

587
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: He did so. According to the La Times Archives, his wife,

588
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: Delores Clark, this is his you know, his new his

589
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: new wife, his new his new life. Although he future

590
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: he should have this is where he messed up. He

591
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: should have not continued to wear the same glasses, because

592
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: then he wouldn't have been recognized.

593
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: Family.

594
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: I know, I'm saying. I'm saying he evaded capture for

595
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: eighteen years, and then the reason that the neighbor recognized

596
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: them is because he continued to wear those same seventies

597
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: style glasses. So anyway, according to the La Times Archives,

598
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: his wife, Delores Clark, said that she was making her

599
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: statement reluctantly and that she would have no further comment.

600
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: She said she was shocked to hear about Bob's arrest

601
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: and what he was charged with. This is not the

602
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: man I know. The man I know is kind, loving,

603
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: a devoted husband, and a dear friend. He is a quiet,

604
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: yet friendly man who loves his work and the people

605
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: he works.

606
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 2: Family man.

607
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he goes to church and you know all the things.

608
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 2: His glasses and everything. He couldn't be a killer.

609
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 1: One friend, unidentified by the newspaper said that John had

610
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: told Dolores he had been married before to an alcoholic

611
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: who had died of cancer. He told her she went

612
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: through a slow, agonizing death. So this is what he

613
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: told the new wife.

614
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: She died in the ballroom in the house burned down.

615
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what and he forgot to mention his mother,

616
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: his kids, and his three children.

617
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, had a great last football game. No soccer, soccer,

618
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: soccer before family.

619
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: This is either the most unbelievable mix up or he

620
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: is the biggest con man who ever walked the Earth.

621
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: Scenario.

622
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: Yes, this was another unidentified friend who was interviewed, who

623
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 1: told the paper in nineteen ninety he goes to trial.

624
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: Wait, where's the forensics is it?

625
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: That's the bus that was it was the bust. It

626
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: that was the forensics. Yeah, well in the nineties, this

627
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: is you know, this is forensic finance, right, so that

628
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: was the forensics. I mean, this is forensics covers a lot,

629
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: but it's not just DNA. So the forensics was the

630
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: ability to make the bust and age progress it to

631
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: look like what he would look like twenty years later,

632
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: and to find the glasses that he would be wearing

633
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: and to I think they even said he was probably

634
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: working as an accountant or something because he has a

635
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: finance background, and so you know, they were putting all

636
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: that together. At trial, the defense argued that Liszt suffered

637
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: from PTSD and psychological issues.

638
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: Please bear be grief through this struggling time where my

639
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: family is dead prosecutors.

640
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: Privacy prosecutors emphasized that the murders were planned and deliberate.

641
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: How do you know, I mean.

642
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: It doesn't take a rocket science to figure that one out, right, I.

643
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: Mean, talk about this may have planned more than a

644
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: lot of people we talk about. I mean he had,

645
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: he had all planned out who he was killing, who,

646
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: the order he killed them in, placing them in the ballroom,

647
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: turning the air conditioning.

648
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: On, shopping the family photos, well, photoshop, seventies photoshoppers, parisisss.

649
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: That's how you photoshopped in the seventies. That's how you

650
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: photoshopped up until you know I used to photoshop in yearbooks.

651
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: Is you just took a black marker and you.

652
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: Just that's how you unfriended something?

653
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just you just blo Yes?

654
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: How many?

655
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: How many of your high school classmates have crossed out

656
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: your photo in their years?

657
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Should we take a poll if there's

658
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: anyone out there listening from Madison.

659
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: High School class ninety nine, class.

660
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: In ninety nine?

661
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: Yea, how many people were in your class? Oh?

662
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: I thought you might have graduated in ninety one. I

663
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: graduated in ninety four, and there were ninety nine people

664
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: in my graduating class. Yes, what do you think? Ninety

665
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: eight of them have crossed me out of the yearbooks

666
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: so far. Thank you, Yes, I do. Wow. I was

667
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: popular in high school.

668
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: They you were popular in nice Yeah.

669
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't know about now, but I was then, all right.

670
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: The jury found him guilty of all charges, and John

671
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: Lyss was sent to five life terms in prison. Obviously,

672
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: he got a life term for every one of his victims.

673
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: In later interviews, John Lyss said that he believed killing

674
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: his family ensured their place in heaven. That was so

675
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: nice of him.

676
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very good. He wasn't worried about himself.

677
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: No, no, he was the victim in all of this,

678
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: and he was ensuring that.

679
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: He was doing the hard work.

680
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: He was. He was making sure that his family was

681
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: going to make it to heaven, and that was very

682
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: kind of him. He also said that he did not

683
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: take his own life because he believed it would prevent

684
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: his own salvation. See that is the most backwards thinking.

685
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: Well, it's not he's just saying a bunch of he's

686
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: spewing a bunch of crap.

687
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: He's just saying whatever, right, because.

688
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: He's saying suicide is bad. So I didn't take my

689
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: own life because my then I won't be saved. Right.

690
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: He's saying suicide is not going to get him into heaven.

691
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: But he did like this kind act by killing his

692
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: whole family because then they could enter the.

693
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: It's not the case, clearly, it's I wanted to keep living,

694
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 3: so I didn't kill myself, and.

695
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to get married again, and now I have.

696
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: To explain it. So then he came up with some

697
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: stupid explanation.

698
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: A John List died of complications from devon. Yeah, he's dead.

699
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: He died in prison in two thousand.

700
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: And eight at the age of eighty two, so he's

701
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: in prison for what twenty years?

702
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: He went to prison in nineteen ninety yeah, and then

703
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: he died in eighteen year. Yeah, he was in prison

704
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: for eighteen years. So I guess there was some justice.

705
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening to till death do us Part.

706
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: That was the case of John List and the murder

707
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: of his family, And of course that is our PSA

708
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: to our listeners. Divorce is always the better option. Who

709
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: cares what society will say. You don't have to post

710
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: it on Instagram.

711
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: Because what's society saying about him? Once he got arrested.

712
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: What a psychopath? Yeah, exactly, all right, thank you for listening.

713
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: Till Death Do Us Part. You can find all of

714
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: our episodes on the legally Brunette feed. Please be sure

715
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: to follow legally Brunette and leave us a review. We

716
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: love to read them. Also, be sure to tell your

717
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: friends and family about Legally Brunette. Also, if you have

718
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: any cases, especially husband and wife type cases that would

719
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: be good for Till Death Do Us Part. I love

720
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: your recommendations, so please feel free to reach out and

721
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: let me know what cases you want to hear about. Also,

722
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: let me know if you watch Forensic File and let

723
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: me know if you would be interested in a Forensic

724
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: Files recap. So I think that would be fun, but

725
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: I would love to hear your thoughts on that as well.

726
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: And just a reminder that all of our episodes are

727
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: on the legally Brunette feed. However, there are some episodes

728
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: into Tease, but in order to access all of them,

729
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: you need to access them from our own feed. So

730
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you so much