Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3: Frequently I'm asked a very disturbing question. Do you believe
Speaker 3: the ghosts of children are demons in disguise?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 3: People ask me this on the regular and my response
Speaker 3: is always the same. That's not the sort of thing
Speaker 3: I would be okay with myself being wrong on. So
Speaker 3: I guess I'm risking demonic possession every time I encounter
Speaker 3: the ghost of a child. Can you imagine the spirit
Speaker 3: of a lost child coming to investigators for help only
Speaker 3: to be treated as though they were an evil entity? Personally,
Speaker 3: I'm not willing to take that chance. The reality is,
Speaker 3: I think this idea was born from the fact that
Speaker 3: it's hard for us to imagine children ending up as spirits,
Speaker 3: somehow condemned to an eternity of wandering the earth. The
Speaker 3: universe couldn't possibly let that happen, right, So of course
Speaker 3: they must be demons. In all my years investigating, not
Speaker 3: once have I encountered a spirit of a child who
Speaker 3: I believed to be something evil or sinister in disguise.
Speaker 3: That being said, there is a location one I've had
Speaker 3: yet to visit, where time and time again it is
Speaker 3: stated there is something very ominous there, masquerading as the
Speaker 3: spirit of an adorable child named Sally. Let's see if
Speaker 3: we can get to the bottom of this. Shall we
Speaker 3: join me as we head to Atchison, Kansas to visit
Speaker 3: the Sally House. I'm Amy Rooney, and welcome to Haunted Road. Atchison,
Speaker 3: Kansas is a small town with a population of just
Speaker 3: over ten thousand people, but what it lacks in numbers
Speaker 3: it makes up for with rich history. The first European
Speaker 3: settlers built a trading post there so they could buy
Speaker 3: and sell with the indigenous Kansa people from there, became
Speaker 3: a stop on a stagecoach line, then a railway station.
Speaker 3: It seemed to always be a temporary resting place for
Speaker 3: passers through, and it's the birthplace of one of history's
Speaker 3: most famous doomed travelers, Amelia Earhart. On the outskirts of Atchison,
Speaker 3: on an otherwise unremarkable residential street sits the Sally House.
Speaker 3: At first glance, it looks like any other white two
Speaker 3: story home. There are brick columns on either side of
Speaker 3: the porch with gray trim along the peaked roofs. You
Speaker 3: might never give it a second look if you didn't
Speaker 3: know about the Sally House's haunted history. It was built
Speaker 3: in the mid to late nineteenth century for Michael and
Speaker 3: Kate Finney and their three children, James, Agnes, and Charles.
Speaker 3: It's said that they were so eager to move into
Speaker 3: their new home that they lived there even before it
Speaker 3: was finished. They stayed in the basement while the upper
Speaker 3: floors were still being erected. Sadly, shortly after the house
Speaker 3: was completed, Michael passed away in eighteen seventy two. At
Speaker 3: some point in the nineteen hundreds, the Sally House became
Speaker 3: a rental. It changed ownership several times while a steady
Speaker 3: stream of temporary residence came and went. That includes Johanna
Speaker 3: Barnes and her five year old son Frank. Johanna suffered
Speaker 3: from mental health issues and attempted to kill herself and
Speaker 3: her son on the night of September twenty fourth, nineteen
Speaker 3: o six. They were in the house at the time.
Speaker 3: While Johanna survived, Frank did not. At some point after that,
Speaker 3: although it's unclear when, strange things began happening in the home,
Speaker 3: particularly for tenants children their toys would move around on
Speaker 3: their own, and unfortunately, even when these kids insisted that
Speaker 3: they hadn't left their rooms messy and with their things
Speaker 3: scattered around, they still sometimes got blamed for it. One
Speaker 3: girl in particular, made an imaginary friend while she lived
Speaker 3: in the house, a friend the structure would later be
Speaker 3: named after Sally. Her parents didn't think much of it
Speaker 3: at the time, but they noticed that when they moved
Speaker 3: out of the Sally House, their daughter abruptly stopped seeing
Speaker 3: and talking to this imaginary friend. Then, on December thirty first,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two, Tony and Deborah Pickman moved in as
Speaker 3: the newest renters. The two were expecting their first child,
Speaker 3: and they probably liked that the house had two bedrooms
Speaker 3: and a nursery. It was the perfect setup for a
Speaker 3: growing family. However, they noticed that the lights tended to dim,
Speaker 3: then minutes later bright and again. It only happened at night,
Speaker 3: but it was every night, and no matter how many
Speaker 3: repair people Tony and Deborah called in, nobody could find
Speaker 3: anything wrong with the lights. At one point, Tony joked
Speaker 3: that the only explanation was that the house was haunted,
Speaker 3: and from the moment those words came out of his mouth.
Speaker 3: The dimming never happened again. It was like whatever entity
Speaker 3: was behind the lighting changes didn't want to give.
Speaker 2: Themselves away yet.
Speaker 3: Other technical problems included an oven timer that went off
Speaker 3: without being set and frequently displayed the wrong time. When
Speaker 3: Tony and Deborah were on the phone with friends. Sometimes
Speaker 3: the line would go dead for minutes at a time,
Speaker 3: only then to start working again. The couple also had pets,
Speaker 3: a Samoya dog and multiple cats. The dog often barked
Speaker 3: and snarled outside the empty nursery, while the cats frequently
Speaker 3: panicked out of nowhere, running around the house in a
Speaker 3: state of inexplicable terror. After Deborah gave birth to her son,
Speaker 3: Taylor in June of nineteen ninety three, these strange incidents
Speaker 3: only became more frequent. Multiple neighbors approached Tony and Deborah
Speaker 3: to tell them they'd seen the lights on in the
Speaker 3: nursery when the house was empty or in the middle
Speaker 3: of the night when everyone was asleep. Baby Taylor had
Speaker 3: a toy, Teddy Bear, that played music when they wound
Speaker 3: it up, but it frequently played on its own even
Speaker 3: when no one had touched it. Speaking of Teddy bears.
Speaker 3: Deborah collected them and had them all over the house.
Speaker 3: There was one particular bear that she kept sitting on
Speaker 3: a chair, but it tended to turn up on the floor,
Speaker 3: as though it had jumped down on its own. There
Speaker 3: was also a different bear that Tony often found facing
Speaker 3: the wall, even though he and Deborah both swore that
Speaker 3: they hadn't put it down that way. In a book
Speaker 3: Deborah later published called The Sally House Haunting, she described
Speaker 3: one especially unsettling incident. One night, the whole family went
Speaker 3: out to visit Tony's parents. Nobody was home, but when
Speaker 3: they got back, every single teddy bear in Taylor's nursery
Speaker 3: had been moved. Now they were sitting in a circle,
Speaker 3: their backs to one another. At first, Deborah and Tony
Speaker 3: figure there had to be a rational explanation for all
Speaker 3: of this. Maybe one of their neighbors had let themselves
Speaker 3: in through the unlocked front door to play a prank,
Speaker 3: But when they asked around, nobody owned.
Speaker 2: Up to the practical joke.
Speaker 3: However, after a lot of conversations with people on the block,
Speaker 3: Deborah and Tony did hear about those ghostly incidents the
Speaker 3: previous renters had experienced. That's also how Deborah learned the
Speaker 3: name of the little girl's imaginary friend, which may have
Speaker 3: been the name of the spirit that was apparently haunting
Speaker 3: her house, Sally. Now, I do want to be clear,
Speaker 3: there's no record that anyone named Sally ever died within
Speaker 3: the Sally House. There are also no former tenants with
Speaker 3: that name. If Sally truly is a ghost who was
Speaker 3: interacting with Deborah and Tony, it is unclear how she
Speaker 3: got there, but the couple was desperate for answers and
Speaker 3: contacted a psychic named Barbara after she heard Tony and
Speaker 3: Deborah's story. Barbara said the house was haunted by a
Speaker 3: spirit who was indeed named Sally, and she wanted to
Speaker 3: protect a baby. At another reading, Barbara added that Sally
Speaker 3: was seven years old and had died around the nineteen
Speaker 3: thirties or forties. Barbara insisted that Sally was harmless. All
Speaker 3: the scary things she'd done, like moving objects around and
Speaker 3: making the electronics malfunction, had been her attempts to keep
Speaker 3: a baby safe. She may have even felt protective over
Speaker 3: little Taylor, who was only about a month old at
Speaker 3: this point. At Barbara's recommendation. From that point on, Deborah
Speaker 3: tried to treat Sally's spirit the way she would any
Speaker 3: misbehaving seven year old. First, she explained that she appreciated
Speaker 3: that Sally was trying to help out with the baby,
Speaker 3: but her behavior wasn't in fact helpful. She needed Sally
Speaker 3: to act differently. Then, afterward, Deborah tried to keep the
Speaker 3: house safe and secure for the spirit. She read children's
Speaker 3: books to her, and when she went to bed, she
Speaker 3: told Sallie it was okay to come cuddle with her
Speaker 3: and Tony. She even brought a wrapped gift for the girl,
Speaker 3: a doll in a box with wrapping paper. Somehow, when
Speaker 3: the room was apparently empty, the doll inside the box
Speaker 3: got placed on the bed, although the packaging was never
Speaker 3: torn and the wrapping paper was still perfectly taped around
Speaker 3: the box. From the sound of it, all of these
Speaker 3: gestures helped Deborah get along with Sally quite well. But
Speaker 3: Tony was a lot more skeptical about Barbara's advice, and
Speaker 3: he didn't want anything to do with the storytelling, the
Speaker 3: nighttime cuddling, or the gift giving. Even after Sally materialized
Speaker 3: in front of him in the kitchen appearing as a
Speaker 3: very young girl. She looked closer to five than seven.
Speaker 3: He was more frightened than anything else. Unsurprisingly, this meant
Speaker 3: Sally also wasn't a big fan of Tony, and she
Speaker 3: occasionally lashed out violently. At least one time, she bit
Speaker 3: him so hard on the thigh it left a baseball
Speaker 3: sized bruise. Tony eventually theorized that whatever was dwelling in
Speaker 3: the house, it wasn't a ghost at all. He believed
Speaker 3: it was something demonic. He also thought an evil spirit
Speaker 3: was taking control of his body. On occasion, he said
Speaker 3: it drove him to to stab a stray cat to
Speaker 3: death after it wandered into the house one day, and
Speaker 3: it also left him often fighting the impulse to stab
Speaker 3: his wife Deborah as well. It's hard to say who
Speaker 3: was right about the spirit's true nature, but we do
Speaker 3: know that things only escalated from there. Candles often lit
Speaker 3: by themselves, which was obviously concerning since this was a
Speaker 3: major fire hazard. Deborah stuck with her usual method of
Speaker 3: trying to talk to Sally and explain that she shouldn't
Speaker 3: light things on fire. However, this didn't help. The candles
Speaker 3: kept igniting, as did teddy bears and an oil lamp
Speaker 3: on top of that, Tony and Deborah noticed something strange
Speaker 3: about the photos they took around the home. By this point,
Speaker 3: they'd both come to accept that there was something otherworldly
Speaker 3: dwelling with them, and they expected to see signs of
Speaker 3: Sally's presence on film. But by the end of nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety three or so, they began to notice a second
Speaker 3: entity in their pictures. The following February, Tony believed he
Speaker 3: saw this second figure manifest when a woman he didn't
Speaker 3: recognize walked down the hallway right in front of him.
Speaker 3: He also apparently interacted with her one day when the
Speaker 3: television remote went missing. After searching the house everywhere for it,
Speaker 3: Tony decided to take a nap on the couch. According
Speaker 3: to Deborah's book The Sally House Haunting, Tony woke again
Speaker 3: when a woman tapped him on the shoulder, set it
Speaker 3: down near him, and said, Tony, here's your remote. In
Speaker 3: his half awake state, Tony thought it was Deborah doing this,
Speaker 3: but later she insisted that she hadn't found the remote
Speaker 3: and definitely hadn't given it to him or woken him up.
Speaker 3: Since Barbara the psychic had been so helpful about identifying
Speaker 3: Sally's ghost. Tony and Deborah went to her again to
Speaker 3: ask about this other woman, but Barbara didn't have much
Speaker 3: information to offer. She thought the woman was trying to
Speaker 3: get Sally to go somewhere with her, and Sally didn't
Speaker 3: want to go. Her best guess was that the ghost
Speaker 3: may have been Sally's mother. Now, like Saally, this unidentified
Speaker 3: spirit seemed to have a very confrontational relationship with Tony.
Speaker 3: One night, he was in bed alone trying to sleep
Speaker 3: when he saw something solidify out of thin air right
Speaker 3: in front of him, first a torso with crossed arms,
Speaker 3: then a fully embodied woman. She had dark hair, a
Speaker 3: stern expression, and she was wearing a high collared black dress.
Speaker 3: Tony couldn't move out of a combination of terror and
Speaker 3: the fact that the woman was shaking his water bed erratically.
Speaker 3: He shouted at Deborah, calling for help, while drawers and
Speaker 3: the bedroom door opened and closed on their own. The
Speaker 3: woman reached for Tony's face and said, I'm gonna That's
Speaker 3: when he saw that she was wearing a black lace
Speaker 3: glove and there was a bird resting on one of
Speaker 3: her fingers. Finally, Tony got his wits about him enough
Speaker 3: to dive off the bed and sprint for the door.
Speaker 3: He was shouting for Deborah all the while, especially when
Speaker 3: he found the knob wasn't working, But when she stepped in,
Speaker 3: everything in the room looked normal. There was no sign
Speaker 3: that anything odd had happened. At this point, Tony and
Speaker 3: Deborah decided they needed professional help. They called in the
Speaker 3: crew from the ghost hunting show sightings multiple times. They
Speaker 3: also hired a medium to help the spirits move along. Interestingly,
Speaker 3: this medium said she didn't sense just two ghosts, Sally
Speaker 3: and her mother.
Speaker 2: She thought there were three.
Speaker 3: This medium apparently encouraged the mother and this third spirit,
Speaker 3: described as a perfect gentleman, to leave the house. The
Speaker 3: little girl Sally stayed in spite of everything that had
Speaker 3: happened with Tony. Deborah still believed she was a defenseless
Speaker 3: young child who needed to be taken care of, and
Speaker 3: Deborah wanted her to remain in the house. As it
Speaker 3: turned out, either Sally was more dangerous than she initially appeared,
Speaker 3: or there was something malicious besides her still lurking in
Speaker 3: the home. Some un unseen entity tried to push Tony
Speaker 3: down the stairs shortly before Halloween in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 3: It was the last straw, and Tony and Deborah moved
Speaker 3: out in the end of October. Afterward, new tenants moved
Speaker 3: into the Sally House and the hauntings continued up until today.
Speaker 3: When visitors drop by virghost tours, they often experience all
Speaker 3: the same things that left Tony and Deborah so unsettled.
Speaker 3: Objects that move on their own, footsteps and noises with
Speaker 3: no clear source, and electronic disturbances. Many guests get scratches
Speaker 3: and bruises while walking through the home. They sometimes feel
Speaker 3: as though someone invisible is touching them. You'll remember that
Speaker 3: the Pickman's dog seemed bothered by the nursery. To this day,
Speaker 3: guide dogs also tend to refuse to set foot in it.
Speaker 3: While many visitors believe they've seen or interacted with Sally,
Speaker 3: there are reports of another spirit as well, an adult woman.
Speaker 3: It's believed this is not in fact the woman Deborah
Speaker 3: and Tony had exercised from the home, but some other
Speaker 3: spirit who came to the house at some later point
Speaker 3: and decided to stay.
Speaker 2: There are also reports.
Speaker 3: Of some kind of very old, malevolent being in the basement,
Speaker 3: which may have been there for decades. There is a
Speaker 3: raging debate about what these entities truly are. Some agree
Speaker 3: with Deborah that these are spirits of the dead. As
Speaker 3: I said before, there's no record of any young girl
Speaker 3: named Sally ever living or dying in the Sally House,
Speaker 3: but there are rumors connecting her to one of the
Speaker 3: first residents who lived there, Charles Finney. Charles was the
Speaker 3: son of Michael and Kate Finny, who first had the
Speaker 3: house built, and he grew up to be a doctor.
Speaker 3: According to some rumors and speculation, a local mother rushed
Speaker 3: her dangerously ill daughter, Sally, to Charles's house late at
Speaker 3: night for emergency treatment. It said she brought the girl
Speaker 3: to Charles either because of his reputation or because he
Speaker 3: was secretly Sally's illegitimate father, whatever the nature of their relationship.
Speaker 3: Charles supposedly rushed Sally into surgery without giving her anesthesia,
Speaker 3: as they didn't have the time to waste waiting for
Speaker 3: it to kick in. Sadly, even his great skill couldn't
Speaker 3: save her life, and Sally died in horrible pain, too
Speaker 3: young to understand that the man who was hurting her
Speaker 3: only did so because he was trying to help. Perhaps
Speaker 3: that's why she seems to lash out against men so
Speaker 3: much more often than women, because she associates them with
Speaker 3: the doctor who painfully performed surgery on her during her
Speaker 3: final night. Another theory about these specters is that they
Speaker 3: are demons who never were human at all. Even the
Speaker 3: spirit known as Sally may only be pretending to be
Speaker 3: an innocent young girl. If we don't know what these
Speaker 3: spirits are, we can't help them find peace. Frankly, we
Speaker 3: can't even know if peace is something that they are seeking.
Speaker 3: So to help me cut through the nod of rumor
Speaker 3: and conjecture and try to learn the truth about the
Speaker 3: Sally House, I'm talking to someone very special. We are
Speaker 3: bringing back mister Johnny Hauser to the show, and he's
Speaker 3: gonna tell us why he vowed to never return to
Speaker 3: the Sally House. That's coming up after the break. All right,
Speaker 3: So we are joined by one of my favorite people
Speaker 3: and was the very first guest ever on Haunted Road,
Speaker 3: mister Johnny Howser.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: fun the first episode. That's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were my you know.
Speaker 3: I was like I remember thinking back then, like okay,
Speaker 3: who can I completely screw up with and they won't
Speaker 3: judge me.
Speaker 2: I was like Johnny, and it was.
Speaker 1: Lockdown, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: I feel like it was very close to it because
Speaker 3: I know the pod came in twenty twenty one, so.
Speaker 2: It was way back when, and uh it was.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's funny because you know, my good friend Aaron Minky,
Speaker 3: who's executive producer of this show, he went back and
Speaker 3: he re recorded a bunch of his old Lore episodes
Speaker 3: and I didn't understand that, and now I do because
Speaker 3: I go back and I listened to my first few episodes,
Speaker 3: like first one or two seasons, and I'm like.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I got a lot better since then.
Speaker 3: And so, you know, but it's always been a ton
Speaker 3: of fun. So but thank you so much for coming back.
Speaker 3: All Right, So today we're going to talk about the
Speaker 3: Sally House.
Speaker 2: And what's interesting.
Speaker 3: About this house to me is that I've never been there,
Speaker 3: and so, you know, there's not a ton of places
Speaker 3: that we cover on the podcast where I haven't been.
Speaker 3: But it's also one of those places that people repeatedly
Speaker 3: ask me to go to, and I hope to get
Speaker 3: there eventually. I do think it's interesting that it's run
Speaker 3: by the town basically as opposed to like a private owner.
Speaker 3: But that being said, I was trying to find someone
Speaker 3: to talk to about it, and I reached out to
Speaker 3: Richard step of usual friend of ours, and because I
Speaker 3: knew he wrote a book on it, and I was like, Richard,
Speaker 3: you've been on the podcast too many times, so I
Speaker 3: need someone else. And he pointed me to you, and
Speaker 3: he specifically said you have to talk to Johnny.
Speaker 2: Because he swore he would never go back there.
Speaker 3: And I thought that's perfect, So can you just tell me, like,
Speaker 3: how did you find yourself at the Sally House?
Speaker 1: Uh? That's such a you know in the paranormal game,
Speaker 1: you look back and everything's like puzzle pieces, almost like
Speaker 1: it just all falls into place without you even knowing.
Speaker 1: For me, it started at the blisk Ax Murder House
Speaker 1: like eighteen years ago, and I have overnights come and
Speaker 1: I check them in and I go to give him
Speaker 1: the speel inside the house and the guy goes, whatever's
Speaker 1: in here was at my house and I'm just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: like what are you talking about? He goes, My name's
Speaker 1: Tony and I was on the show's sightings what they
Speaker 1: call the Sally House. So I'm like, oh, I remember
Speaker 1: watching that when I was young. You know, you're the
Speaker 1: guy getting the scratches live on camera, and so we
Speaker 1: got to talking. The houses are the exact same street address,
Speaker 1: the fiveh eight second Street. The artist rendition, he drew
Speaker 1: a Sally. The Sally ghost that presumably died from the
Speaker 1: appendix operation is a spitting image of Catherine Moore, who
Speaker 1: is one of the little girls at the Axe Murder House.
Speaker 1: So he walks into the downstairs bedroom where Aina and
Speaker 1: Lina Stellinger were found, and he starts choking and coughing,
Speaker 1: and he's coughing and coughing. I'm like, dude, you all right,
Speaker 1: Like you need to drink a water or something. He
Speaker 1: throws up a chunk of bacon where the bacon was
Speaker 1: found in nineteen twelve on the floor at the Axe
Speaker 1: Murder House.
Speaker 2: This happened in front of you, right.
Speaker 1: In front of me, and like guys being guys, when
Speaker 1: something gross happens, we do we go look, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like and it was a chunk of raw, fatty bacon.
Speaker 1: And I left there. It's like, I'm out. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's happening here, but I got to go, you know,
Speaker 1: and I thought about that forever. It's like, why would
Speaker 1: this dude swallow a huge chunk of fatty raw bacon
Speaker 1: make himself throw it up to impress me a tour
Speaker 1: guide at the X House for two years at that point,
Speaker 1: you know, like the X House wasn't even nothing back then.
Speaker 1: And that started my obsession with the Sally House. And
Speaker 1: then I had the opportunity to spend like three days
Speaker 1: there and I had to jump on it because that
Speaker 1: sightings episode was one that stuck with me before I
Speaker 1: was even really in a paranormal game. And since then
Speaker 1: I've known. I've met people in the field in production
Speaker 1: companies that worked on that episode, and they said the
Speaker 1: producer that quit out of Hollywood quit his job, become
Speaker 1: a born again Christian all because of what he witnessed
Speaker 1: there with the scratchings and stuff.
Speaker 3: So, to be clear, the bacon, the bacon incident, this
Speaker 3: happened in the Veliska House.
Speaker 1: Yes, So when they found the bodies at next morning,
Speaker 1: there was a chunk of raw acon laying on the
Speaker 1: floor in that bedroom, the Downs room. And so when
Speaker 1: deb and Tony came to stay the night, when he
Speaker 1: walked into that room, he threw up raw bacon in
Speaker 1: the exact spot that the bacon was found.
Speaker 2: So that's wild.
Speaker 3: That's the room that's downstairs, correct, So that's the same
Speaker 3: room where that invested Robert Larson.
Speaker 2: I believe that's where he stabbed himself and everything.
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a bizarre space. So that's that's really interesting.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of one of the reasons why I
Speaker 3: wanted to talk to you, is it seemed like there's
Speaker 3: this kind of connection between the two houses. And just
Speaker 3: going back to that Sightings episode, so I used to
Speaker 3: watch that show too. I think a lot of us
Speaker 3: are age watch that show, and I don't remember that
Speaker 3: episode specifically, so I'm going to have to go back
Speaker 3: and check it out when this happened, and I want
Speaker 3: to talk more about the Sally House itself, but I
Speaker 3: just this bacon moment has me pretty speechless. But when
Speaker 3: this happened, Like, what were you thinking? Like what was
Speaker 3: going through your head as you see this go on?
Speaker 1: Specifically back then, you know, I always would play Wugi
Speaker 1: board by myself, Bloody Mary by myself. I was just
Speaker 1: a weird kid growing up, and I had no idea
Speaker 1: that there were teams that did this with matching T shirts.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like there are people that do this
Speaker 1: besides me. It's so new and so magical and so
Speaker 1: bizarre and so weird and fantastic that I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I just witnessed this guy do that. And
Speaker 1: then I mean you automatically try and rationalize, like, okay,
Speaker 1: did that really happen? But it's like, why, of course
Speaker 1: it really happened. Why would he think that to impress
Speaker 1: some duty doesn't even know that's nobody, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's wild, Yeah it was. And I mean I took
Speaker 1: out my little Motorola flip phone at the time and
Speaker 1: took a picture of it because I just wanted to
Speaker 1: document everything I seen, and of course it's like two megapixel.
Speaker 1: You can't even make nothing out at this point.
Speaker 3: But it's okay, you have the you have the bacon
Speaker 3: bar forever in your brain. I'm sure, so great, But okay,
Speaker 3: So moving ahead to Sally House, you have the opportunity
Speaker 3: to spend three days there.
Speaker 2: Now what happens?
Speaker 3: You know, you can kind of go through it step
Speaker 3: by step, but like, how long ago was this and
Speaker 3: you know, what was it like when you first like
Speaker 3: set foot in that house.
Speaker 1: This would probably be about twelve to fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: As soon as we got there, as soon as and
Speaker 1: I won't say as soon as I walked on the property,
Speaker 1: like when I opened the door and I seen the
Speaker 1: staircase going upstairs, I just got the I was feeling
Speaker 1: a file filth gross like blah. I mean, I can't
Speaker 1: even really describe it, just not good. We were unpacking,
Speaker 1: getting ready to, you know, just put our equipment and
Speaker 1: get it all charged up. My buddy's cell phone flew
Speaker 1: off the table into the living room and it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's what this is going to be tonight. First thing,
Speaker 1: right off the bat, I decide I want to be
Speaker 1: I want to go down in the basement. And by
Speaker 1: this guy, i'd heard that there was no Sally ghost.
Speaker 1: There's no Sally girl that died from a procedure in there,
Speaker 1: there's no records of it. The story I heard was
Speaker 1: a lady that lived there back in the day, was
Speaker 1: dabbling in the occult and black magic in the basement,
Speaker 1: and supposedly there's a pentagram on the floor. You go
Speaker 1: down there, there's a big black spot on the floor.
Speaker 1: Who knows what it is or what it was. But
Speaker 1: it's about six o'clock. I mean, it's still daylight. And
Speaker 1: I try some you know, is anyone here can give
Speaker 1: me a sign, you know, the normal ghost hunting techniques.
Speaker 1: Fifteen years ago. Nothing's happening. So I decide, well, if
Speaker 1: this is a cult, I'll try religious provocation. It just
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, you know. So I go, in
Speaker 1: the name of Jesus Christ do something and I feel
Speaker 1: like a bug bite burn on the back of my leg,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I just got scratched. This is awesome.
Speaker 1: So I run upstairs and roll up my pant leg.
Speaker 1: On the back of my calf. There's a big patch
Speaker 1: of bald like the hair is burned off my leg
Speaker 1: and you can smell the burnt hair. You can see
Speaker 1: singed hair like something burned hair off my leg. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, that's nuts. This is something way different.
Speaker 1: So I go up. There's a Catholic college in town.
Speaker 1: I go up to the gift shop, spend like one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty dollars on crucifixes,
Speaker 1: holy water, you name it, protection, this and that. I
Speaker 1: get back down there the holy water bottles are empty.
Speaker 1: They're just decorative bottles. So I go back up there again.
Speaker 1: Everything's closed and it's like that scene in The Lost
Speaker 1: Boys where they're filling up their squirt guns with holy water.
Speaker 1: Like I walk in a building, I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: a church. I see water. It's like that's got to
Speaker 1: be holy water. What else would it be. So I'm
Speaker 1: like filling up the bottles, looking around, like am I
Speaker 1: even supposed to be here?
Speaker 3: I think you're allowed to do that. I'm not sure,
Speaker 3: but I think you are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna you know, if the cops came, like,
Speaker 1: come on, I'm getting holy water, you know. So I
Speaker 1: go back down. I put one of the holy water
Speaker 1: bottles on where that pentagram supposedly was. We investigate upstairs
Speaker 1: and everything. I go back downstairs to pick up my
Speaker 1: holy water bottle. It's empty and there's a lid on
Speaker 1: the top, but you can see the condensation in the glass.
Speaker 1: It's like it evaporated out of it. And I ended
Speaker 1: up leaving early. Just on top of that was feelings,
Speaker 1: a dread, just something's not right, you know, that fight
Speaker 1: or flight feeling. And when I got home. That started
Speaker 1: about three months of me just being really weird, like
Speaker 1: very like not leave the house, reclusive. I can remember
Speaker 1: my buddy knocking at my screen door and I shut
Speaker 1: my main door in his face, and like I won't
Speaker 1: people leave me alone. I'm sick of people. And then
Speaker 1: I started getting like mental flashes of like violent acts,
Speaker 1: like just a little quick one second to make me go, man,
Speaker 1: what is wrong? Like what's happening here? You know? And
Speaker 1: I ended up finding a church in town and went
Speaker 1: for like three days a week there. For a while,
Speaker 1: I was fine, but I really think something almost got
Speaker 1: a hold of me.
Speaker 3: I hear the demon actually in the background of your
Speaker 3: house right now, right, I think it's still it's still
Speaker 3: with you, Johnny. It's funny because it's not. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's not funny at all. So, first of all, you
Speaker 3: were supposed to be there for three nights. It sounds
Speaker 3: like you didn't even make it through the first night.
Speaker 3: That feeling of just something's wrong, Like there's been a
Speaker 3: few haunts like that where I've walked in and I
Speaker 3: can almost it almost feels like you're just sick inside.
Speaker 3: But it's like it's like a weird visceral, like something
Speaker 3: is very wrong. Here, and I feel it, like physically
Speaker 3: but also like spiritually in my soul that either there's
Speaker 3: someone or some sort of energy that's very distraught and upset,
Speaker 3: or there's something like legitimately dangerous here. And what you're
Speaker 3: describing is just like so unexplainable. You know, how does
Speaker 3: that possibly happen? I mean, I the only thing that
Speaker 3: can happen someone snuck down there and I try to
Speaker 3: play a joke on yours in which I don't think happened.
Speaker 3: And then for you to be affected by someone who
Speaker 3: you know went for so long, you know, you took
Speaker 3: a picture of bacon barf. That's like, You're not someone
Speaker 3: who gets scared and has things like stick with you
Speaker 3: for so long. You know, it's like you were fascinated
Speaker 3: by those things. So for it to really like kind
Speaker 3: of affect you that way after, it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I remember I drove home in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night and got home and as soon as I walked
Speaker 1: in my door, I kind of dropped my bag. I
Speaker 1: started crying, like I just felt like I got back
Speaker 1: from war, you know, and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: was like home and it's like, what did I just
Speaker 1: go through? You know, it's like this flood of emotions
Speaker 1: just came out. I mean, the weirdness, the weird thoughts
Speaker 1: and everything. I mean, I was I was married at
Speaker 1: the time, and my ex wife would say we'd be
Speaker 1: eaten and you'd just be staring at it, being like
Speaker 1: you wanted to kill me. I'm like, no, I wasn't.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you're like what you know, just it's
Speaker 1: very oppressive. That place is very oppressive and just full
Speaker 1: of nothing good.
Speaker 3: Right now, what do you think about I know you
Speaker 3: did eventually go back, but we'll get to that. But
Speaker 3: what what do you think about the fact that you
Speaker 3: know there are people investigating there quite a bit. And
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea of you know,
Speaker 3: demons and whatnot. I don't really put like a face
Speaker 3: on things. But I do believe in like true negative
Speaker 3: type energy, and I think that energy can be human
Speaker 3: or I think something so terrible and tragic can happen
Speaker 3: somewhere that it just completely oppresses that space forever, and
Speaker 3: that some of us can actually like take a bit
Speaker 3: of that with us and it can physically and mentally
Speaker 3: affect us, you know. So I you know, I don't
Speaker 3: have an explanation or an answer. But I also feel
Speaker 3: like too, if you're combat it with something you believe in,
Speaker 3: like religion and going to church, if you believe in that,
Speaker 3: that is how you get rid of that right right now?
Speaker 3: How do you feel about people investigating there so often?
Speaker 3: Do you think that is feeding into what's going on there?
Speaker 3: You know a lot of people walk away.
Speaker 2: Just completely fine.
Speaker 3: Others seem to have some pretty like life changing experiences.
Speaker 2: What do you think that does to that house?
Speaker 1: It absolutely feeds it. I mean I've seen it firsthand
Speaker 1: at the twenty years I spent at the Axe House.
Speaker 1: It absolutely fad that place. You know, the more people
Speaker 1: come and do who knows what in the house that
Speaker 1: they're not always super respectful investigators that go to these places.
Speaker 1: Sometimes a lot of times it's just people getting completely
Speaker 1: wasted and doing who knows what in it most of
Speaker 1: the time super respectful. But you know, the investigators that
Speaker 1: I do know are super respectful. I'm not lumping everybody
Speaker 1: into one thing, but bad things do happen from normal
Speaker 1: people that go into these places, and I think it
Speaker 1: just feeds it. And I mean we've all been in
Speaker 1: relationships that are very oppressive and dark and draining doesn't
Speaker 1: mean demons. It just people can be that, you know.
Speaker 1: And I also think these places are like mirrors. They
Speaker 1: just reflect back to you what you put into it.
Speaker 1: If like at the Axous, if you think you're talking
Speaker 1: to little kids, that's what you're going to get. If
Speaker 1: you think the killers in the house, that's what you're
Speaker 1: going to get. If you think this, that's what you're
Speaker 1: going to get. You know, That's the one thing I've
Speaker 1: learned throughout all these years and these locations is everybody
Speaker 1: gets different things, vastly different things, day after day. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really seem like a static type deal. But
Speaker 1: getting back to your question, I mean absolutely people investigating
Speaker 1: and going in and giving it energy, giving it time,
Speaker 1: reacting to what happens. You know, the first thing I
Speaker 1: learned in the field for residential hauntings is you know,
Speaker 1: tell the client if something happens, don't overreact and go
Speaker 1: crazy and oh my gosh, the door just slammed. Everybody, Look,
Speaker 1: you know, you're just feeding it. Ignore it, Ignore it,
Speaker 1: and it'll hopefully go away type thing.
Speaker 2: It's like a bully.
Speaker 3: When you stop giving them the reaction they want, you know,
Speaker 3: and I think that's probably one of the reasons. Like
Speaker 3: me as an investigator, it's very rare that I encounter
Speaker 3: anything negative because I'm like the most cheerful ghost hunter
Speaker 3: that's ever, you know, Like I walk into every place
Speaker 3: laughing and giggling and like I would be the most
Speaker 3: if I were like a mean ghost, I'd be so
Speaker 3: annoyed with me.
Speaker 1: So you come in that the ghosts is like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to light her up, and it's like she's so nice.
Speaker 2: Though it's my defense. Everyone's like, what do you do.
Speaker 3: I'm like, just don't care, just be nice. They don't
Speaker 3: they want That's my solution to everything. Although I am
Speaker 3: very I do want to visit the Sally House. I
Speaker 3: am definitely going to try to make it in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. And so now kind of circling back, you
Speaker 3: you go back.
Speaker 2: How long did it take you to go back? Why
Speaker 2: did you go back?
Speaker 1: Well, the initial time I went back maybe a few
Speaker 1: months later, and that time it was the same thing,
Speaker 1: very oppressive, very terrifying. I ended up leaving in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night again. And in fact, there's a
Speaker 1: popular ghost hunting show. I'm not going to say which one,
Speaker 1: it is, but one of the cast members is in
Speaker 1: the basement and they go to crawl inside the hole
Speaker 1: in the basement in the wall. They step on a
Speaker 1: little TV set to get in that hole. That's I
Speaker 1: left that there. We were doing video iving. I left
Speaker 1: all my gear there. It's like, I don't care, I'll
Speaker 1: just buy more. I'm not going to the house ever again.
Speaker 3: And so what was why what happened that time? It
Speaker 3: was just the feeling or did an experience happen that
Speaker 3: set you over the edge?
Speaker 1: I mean there were experiences like I got shoved. I
Speaker 1: was at the top of the stairs just standing and
Speaker 1: I got shoved like almost down the steps, and I
Speaker 1: braced myself on the railing. But then I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe I was locking my knees. You know, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to debunk it my head and it happened again. But
Speaker 1: stuff like that I can handle, like big deal, you
Speaker 1: know it was. What I can't take is the mental manipulation.
Speaker 1: Something bad is about to happen real soon that I
Speaker 1: don't like. You know, So I left sore. I'd never
Speaker 1: go back, ended up going back again.
Speaker 2: You're good at keeping promises to yourself.
Speaker 1: That's it. I don't. I don't like something beating me,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: No, I told I would be the same way. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I can't do this.
Speaker 1: I can't let this beat me. So I go down
Speaker 1: again and I do this experiment down in the basement
Speaker 1: on top of the pentagram and asked to do it
Speaker 1: like light therapy. It's it's almost like the Estes method,
Speaker 1: but it's with a light therapy, light getting to the
Speaker 1: boring details, but creates like a tunnel inside your mind.
Speaker 1: And I did it, and all of a sudden, all
Speaker 1: I seen was the steps of the Volaska's murder house
Speaker 1: and like boots walking up the steps. And I tried
Speaker 1: to force it out of my mind. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's just what you are used to keep an open mind,
Speaker 1: and it kept going back to that. Well, then it
Speaker 1: went into like the kids room and kind of alluded
Speaker 1: to what happened there, and again I got super emotional,
Speaker 1: like it's almost like I was feeling what the Morris
Speaker 1: felt that night. It's terrified. I was emotional. I was sad. Guys.
Speaker 1: I got to take a break, like this is too much,
Speaker 1: So we go out front. It's about two in the
Speaker 1: morning on a Tuesday. It's dark, it's foggy. It's one
Speaker 1: of those just summer nights. Every time I've been to
Speaker 1: the Sally House, you always get teenagers congregating out front.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just happens every single time. So we're
Speaker 1: sitting there and also to see a figure emerge out
Speaker 1: of the fog about a block away, and I'll look
Speaker 1: to my buddy, I'm like, you know, weirdo coming up
Speaker 1: behind you, you know, and it's a full blown Catholic
Speaker 1: monk with the robe with the hood up and the
Speaker 1: little rope tight around his waist, walks through us, does
Speaker 1: not say a word, doesn't even look at us. As
Speaker 1: soon as he passes the house, he does like the
Speaker 1: sign of the Cross on his body and disappears into
Speaker 1: the fog. And everybody's just like, uh what. And I'm like, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm out. They're like, oh, you can't leave. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that was, But do Catholic priests
Speaker 1: just roam around and full regalia at two am on
Speaker 1: a Tuesday? Like no, Like, you know, big guy, I
Speaker 1: don't listen to you, but I'm listening tonight. So message
Speaker 1: loud and clear.
Speaker 3: Okay, So when you say walk through, you like walked
Speaker 3: between you guys, are like literally walked for you?
Speaker 2: Like, was this like a spiritual form or was this
Speaker 2: a physical.
Speaker 1: Person like between us, like a physical person? I'm assuming
Speaker 1: he was real.
Speaker 3: Oh so he's just on like Sally House duty or.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's I have no idea, Like I've never
Speaker 1: seen anything like that in my life. Like he walked
Speaker 1: up and one of us like, hey, how you doing?
Speaker 1: And he didn't say anything, So he just kind of
Speaker 1: moved out of his way, and that's when he did
Speaker 1: the sign of the cross and kept walking and just
Speaker 1: disappeared into the fog.
Speaker 3: That's I wonder is there a place he would have
Speaker 3: come from locally like that there?
Speaker 1: Well, there's a it's a big Catholic college in that town.
Speaker 1: But it was Ah. So we go to get coffee
Speaker 1: earlier in that day, and this might have been what
Speaker 1: explains it. We go to get coffee and school is
Speaker 1: out for summer. The guy making coffee is a college
Speaker 1: professor at the Catholic school. He's like, Oh, what are
Speaker 1: you guys in town for. We're like, how this We're
Speaker 1: staying at the Sally House. He goes, Ah, that's our
Speaker 1: arch nemesis. So I don't know if he sent one
Speaker 1: of his homeboys down to like give us a little
Speaker 1: extra umph, like a little extra protection or what.
Speaker 3: But yeah, or maybe it's just so well known that
Speaker 3: you know, maybe he was taking a midnight stroll and
Speaker 3: like that's just what they do when they walk by it.
Speaker 3: That's just their automatic response. I mean, that's just that's
Speaker 3: a really wild story. And so you at that point
Speaker 3: you're like, I'm done.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like I don't know what that means,
Speaker 1: but hanging around to find out, Like at some point,
Speaker 1: if you're going to be stupid, you gotta be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the universe only gives you so many signs and
Speaker 3: you know, so okay, so now have you been back
Speaker 3: since then?
Speaker 1: I have not been back since then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And okay, that so just like point blank, like
Speaker 3: what do you think is going on there?
Speaker 1: I think there's some thing negative there, But I think
Speaker 1: there's like where negative things happen, negative things are attracted to,
Speaker 1: you know. I don't think it's the big D word, right,
Speaker 1: And I personally would have nothing to do with it,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that there'd be a lot
Speaker 1: worse happening from there. I don't know, it's not the
Speaker 1: Sally Ghost, right. But then I've talked to people that
Speaker 1: have stayed the night there and oh it is boring.
Speaker 1: Nothing happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I mean, you know, I think
Speaker 3: that happens at every punted location. I have to remind people.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, they're not like there to perform for you,
Speaker 3: Like some nights are great, some nights are quiet. That's
Speaker 3: part of the part of the gig.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: But you know, I just I find that that place
Speaker 3: very interesting, just in the sense that, well, I trust
Speaker 3: you implicitly with your information, you know, so it always
Speaker 3: depends on where that kind of information is coming from
Speaker 3: for me, and so I just find it very interesting.
Speaker 3: Now can you imagine the people that lived there for
Speaker 3: so long? Can you imagine living there on a daily basis?
Speaker 1: Oh man, I mean just being immersed and marinating in
Speaker 1: that anxiety and depression and darkness day after day after day,
Speaker 1: like good grief. I couldn't imagine. And you know what's
Speaker 1: interesting is the guy that lives next door. We were
Speaker 1: on the back deck taking a break and that's where
Speaker 1: we take breaks all night. He would just be his
Speaker 1: lights would be on, and we weren't like speaking in
Speaker 1: his windows, you know, but he can't help but to
Speaker 1: notice when the lights are on and the middle of
Speaker 1: the night and no curtains are drawn. He's just like
Speaker 1: pacing through his house all night long, and like I'm
Speaker 1: wonder and I wonder what's going on over there as well, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I you know, if this lady was practicing
Speaker 1: a cult in black magic, she's just willing darkness into
Speaker 1: that place, just kind of begging it to come, you
Speaker 1: know whatever. Really, just faith you believe in about all
Speaker 1: of that has its own form of evil, you know, right,
Speaker 1: And if you're just sitting there like saying, hey, come
Speaker 1: on whatever, come hang out, like and who knows what's
Speaker 1: attached to other people that go there, who knows what
Speaker 1: they do in the house.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: There's a time at the X House. I go in
Speaker 1: there and there's all these papers on the floor from
Speaker 1: the overnights, and all of us junk on the floor,
Speaker 1: and it's like, what is this? It is how to
Speaker 1: summon a demon? Printed off the Internet? And I started laughing,
Speaker 1: you know, and I called up a friend of mine
Speaker 1: because I'm not a huge specialist or expert, so I
Speaker 1: called her up. I'm like, should I be worried about
Speaker 1: this or is this just stupid? She goes, It's not
Speaker 1: them doing it correctly or anything. It's the intent that
Speaker 1: they had when they get in there.
Speaker 3: With that, It's like, I'm a big I'm a big
Speaker 3: believer in intention and you know, the energy that you are
Speaker 3: asking for or putting off yourself, and you know, that
Speaker 3: makes me wonder what the sallyas too?
Speaker 2: Like is that just so many people walking.
Speaker 3: In there with the intention of encountering something potentially evil,
Speaker 3: and so you know, some people might be excited by that,
Speaker 3: some people might be asking for it. Other people might
Speaker 3: be so scared of that that they're like exuding this
Speaker 3: kind of like nervous scared energy, you know. So it's
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's really interesting. I think a lot
Speaker 3: of hauntings just come from us, to be honest, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, or we or we affect them deeply, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm really interested to get in there and kind of
Speaker 3: feel that vibe.
Speaker 1: I usually get. I meet a lot of new young
Speaker 1: teams that come through Veleska, and I'm always excited to
Speaker 1: see them because they're you know, seventeen eighteen just getting
Speaker 1: in the field or so pumped over it and I
Speaker 1: can impart what i've little I've learned over the last
Speaker 1: twenty five thirty years, you know, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're going to the Sally House, Like, uh what okay, boys,
Speaker 1: let's let's have a talk.
Speaker 3: So okay, now, ending on that, this is your opportunity
Speaker 3: to talk to those folks who want to go there.
Speaker 3: What is your advice for people who want to go
Speaker 3: to the Sally House? What? What would you tell them?
Speaker 3: How would you tell them to handle that haunting? Or
Speaker 3: would you just tell them.
Speaker 2: Not to go?
Speaker 1: You know, first rule of ghost hunting is you got
Speaker 1: to know when to call it. You got to know
Speaker 1: when to stop and when it's clearly starting to become unsafe.
Speaker 1: And if somebody starts getting weird, go take a break,
Speaker 1: Go get a candy bar, Like it's all right. You'll
Speaker 1: have to give it one hundred and twenty percent, you know,
Speaker 1: watch each other's moods, Watch each other. If somebody starts
Speaker 1: acting angry or outside of themselves how they would normally
Speaker 1: wouldn't act. You got a buddy watch and you got
Speaker 1: to not be afraid to say, okay, no, we need
Speaker 1: to leave. You know, who cares about the four hundred
Speaker 1: bucks or whatever we threw down. I mean, is your
Speaker 1: personal well being worth that? I wouldn't suggest it for
Speaker 1: someone new, you know, cut your teeth on a few
Speaker 1: other places at art so terrible.
Speaker 3: Well, that's very sound advice. My advice to people is
Speaker 3: if it starts getting weird, just start whistling a happy song,
Speaker 3: because nothing bad can happen if you're whistling. That's my
Speaker 3: that's my ghost, my ghost defense mechanism.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of truth in that because, like
Speaker 1: you know, being at the Axe House for so long,
Speaker 1: it's I've seen it affect me several times with like
Speaker 1: when I was talking about the quick snippets of violent
Speaker 1: acts and stuff. Whenever I get that anymore, I just
Speaker 1: counteract it with a happy act. If I'm in a
Speaker 1: bad make myself getting a hat like Yin and Yang.
Speaker 1: There's truth to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you force your self to smile, it automatically
Speaker 3: like sends endorphins to like your body, and it instantly
Speaker 3: lifts your.
Speaker 2: Mood or wakes you up.
Speaker 1: I spent years I'm a true true crime nerd, so
Speaker 1: it's like all day long, I'm doing X House stuff
Speaker 1: and then I uh watch forensic Files and then I'll
Speaker 1: watch The Exorcist. And this year I've decided I'm just
Speaker 1: going to watch Billy Madison and like funny and laugh.
Speaker 1: That's what it's like to laugh a little bit. And
Speaker 1: you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think that's a great idea. Yeah, you got you got
Speaker 3: to counteract that.
Speaker 1: Stuff exactly, take a break from it.
Speaker 3: Well, awesome, Well, it was so great to talk to
Speaker 3: you again. I hope our paths cross in person soon
Speaker 3: and if I head back, if I head to the
Speaker 3: Sally House, I'll let you know and let you know
Speaker 3: what happens. But yeah, your your stories and everything you've
Speaker 3: said today has just been so interesting and so compelling,
Speaker 3: and I know that every no One's gonna love listening
Speaker 3: as always. So thank you so much, Johnny. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I'll keep the Catholic Clergy on speed dial for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Now that I've finished up my interview with Johnny, I
Speaker 3: wanted to tell you a little story about something that
Speaker 3: happened in my own house after our interview was complete.
Speaker 3: I don't record Haunted Road in some big, fancy studio
Speaker 3: or anything like that. I actually record Haunted Road in
Speaker 3: my upstairs walk in closet. Because it's so filled with
Speaker 3: clothes and clothing racks and whatnot that it dampens the
Speaker 3: sound enough, and so it's the perfect spot. So I
Speaker 3: have a music stand set up there, my scripts, my recorder,
Speaker 3: all of that microphone, and that's where I record it.
Speaker 3: And that whole setup is there always. And so I
Speaker 3: recorded my interview with Johnny. I took my memory card
Speaker 3: or SD card out of the recorder so I could
Speaker 3: upload the interview for our producers from my office downstairs.
Speaker 2: The next day, I went back in to do.
Speaker 3: Some more recording for Haunted Road, and when I walked in,
Speaker 3: my entire setup, my scripts, my recorder, my microphone, my
Speaker 3: music stand, all of it was strewn.
Speaker 2: About the room.
Speaker 3: I don't know how that could have happened. This is
Speaker 3: something that's just static and there, and that's never happened before.
Speaker 3: I do have cats, but they are not allowed in
Speaker 3: my closet ever, because if they go in there, they
Speaker 3: can actually get in between the floors of my house
Speaker 3: and get stuck. So we're very strict about letting them
Speaker 3: in there. I have a three hundred year old house,
Speaker 3: and I didn't hear anything, and so I don't know
Speaker 3: what could have caused that. I diligently just kind of
Speaker 3: picked everything up and carried about my day. But I'm
Speaker 3: asking you, Haunted roadies, what do you think. Do you
Speaker 3: think something came through somehow with my interview with Johnny
Speaker 3: or do you think in my three hundred year old
Speaker 3: house something about that interview stirred something up within my
Speaker 3: own home.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'll keep you posted if anything else happens, but I
Speaker 3: thought it was interesting and I want to to give
Speaker 3: you that follow up. There are so many questions that
Speaker 3: we'll never know the answers to what happens to us
Speaker 3: after we die, what other kinds of beings share this
Speaker 3: world with us? And what is the nature of the
Speaker 3: spirits that dwell in the Sally House. But even if
Speaker 3: we can't find one definitive explanation, the fact that we're
Speaker 3: asking these questions at all still matters. It's human nature
Speaker 3: to wonder about the world around us, and that may
Speaker 3: be why the Sally House holds so much fascination. I'm
Speaker 3: Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is
Speaker 3: a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and Miles from Air
Speaker 3: and Minky. Haunted Road is hosted and written by me
Speaker 3: Amy Brune, with additional research by Cassandra de Alba. This
Speaker 3: show is edited and produced by supervising producer Rima El Kali,
Speaker 3: with executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick.
Speaker 3: Learn more about this show over at grimanmild dot com,
Speaker 3: and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows