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Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening Hunt podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are

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Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor

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Speaker 1: where you stand with on X. Hey everyone, quick announcement

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Speaker 1: before we get started. So this is a special addition

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Speaker 1: to part podcast. Get your regular part which happens next,

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Speaker 1: and then we got an extra special part which happens

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Speaker 1: after that, so make sure you stay tuned. An extra

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Speaker 1: special part has to do with the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation

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Speaker 1: Partnership working in conjunction with on X, and together they

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Speaker 1: just released a new report called Inaccessible State Lands in

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Speaker 1: the West, The extent of the landlocked problem and the

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Speaker 1: tools to fix it. Now, if you remember if you

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Speaker 1: listen to the show, and you obviously do, because here

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Speaker 1: we are. We did a show with t RCP and

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Speaker 1: on X a little over a year ago in which

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Speaker 1: we outlined the findings of their Federal land Landlocked Report,

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Speaker 1: meaning all kinds of land you and I could be

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Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and covorting around on but we can't

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Speaker 1: because there's no legal access to it. It's just like

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Speaker 1: chunks of public land sitting there, but you can't legally

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Speaker 1: get on it because it's surrounded by private land. And

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Speaker 1: so they looked at that and how to take care

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Speaker 1: of that, and they followed that up now with the

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Speaker 1: State Land Report, which has some pretty like staggering findings

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Speaker 1: in it with very real implications for anyone that likes

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Speaker 1: to spend time outdoors. So stay tuned and thanks to

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Speaker 1: t R C P and on next for pulling us together,

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Speaker 1: and stay tuned to hear all about it after this

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Speaker 1: here show. Okay, a couple quick things here. First, Mark Kenyan,

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Speaker 1: here's one for you. Have you ever heard, you know,

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Speaker 1: like words for big stuff like huge or toad, jumbo, mondoga.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard a guy wrote in one and

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Speaker 1: about where he's from in southern Ohio a big buck?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think this might just be in

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Speaker 1: his social circle. The big buck is a slender. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's been g being pronounced the same as in giant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have heard of that slender. Now how I heard

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Speaker 1: of it is there was a video production team out

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Speaker 1: of Ohio. This substantiate it, and I'm pretty sure they

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Speaker 1: were called slender hollow. And I just remember this because

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Speaker 1: when I was in early college, they were they they

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Speaker 1: specialized in big bucks from hollows. While I watched this,

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Speaker 1: you could get the TV show online. I watched it

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Speaker 1: in college. It was called again slender. I think it

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Speaker 1: was slender hollo if I remember so? Did that? Is

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Speaker 1: that why people started calling him slenders? No? No, no,

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Speaker 1: I've never heard it used in that way, but that

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Speaker 1: would make me think that could be where it came from,

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Speaker 1: given their birth from Ohio. You don't even know about this.

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Speaker 1: I never heard of a slender. Have we talked about that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if people in Ohio I should use

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Speaker 1: the word hollow. I feel like it's cultural appropriation. No.

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Speaker 1: I think if they say hollo, it's fine. Yeah, a hollow,

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Speaker 1: that's fine. UM. I had a guy from his Missouri

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Speaker 1: once I had dropped him off somewhere where I was

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Speaker 1: guying him elk hunting, and I came back to him

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Speaker 1: and he was telling me about how the bolt was

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Speaker 1: hollering down there over in the holler. Have you guys

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Speaker 1: heard this one dude rode in that. Um, he's saying

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Speaker 1: he's saying, if you want tender backstrap, you hang the

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Speaker 1: deer's carcass by the pelvic bone. Do you hear this?

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Speaker 1: There's no strain. I have not heard that. I have

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Speaker 1: a hard time buying hank. You're not in your head.

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Speaker 1: I've heard this. But they put even a professional butcher

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Speaker 1: will put a hook in the cavity and hanging like

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Speaker 1: that because you don't want You want to stay by

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Speaker 1: that microphone. Sorry about that? You want? You want? Then

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Speaker 1: you want the hind quarters ninety degrees angle from the

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Speaker 1: hanging carcass upside down. Yeah, when when you hang him

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Speaker 1: under tension, the rigor mortis does more damage to the meat.

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Speaker 1: I've heard it. I think you just made that up.

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Speaker 1: You heard it by having executed on it. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I still hang my dear and I don't know him hanging.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a walk in cooler or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: But you have heard this. And if you go to

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Speaker 1: like a processor, I've noticed they hanged the ear and

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Speaker 1: the cows that way. Do you um doing? You guys

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Speaker 1: electrocute your dear right after you shoot him? Electric cute? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Not once? Never heard of? Did you ever hear there's

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Speaker 1: this company, and I never got around to trying it. Man,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to tender It's called tender buck because you know,

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Speaker 1: you ever been to you ever watched them slaughter cattle

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Speaker 1: and slaughterhouse. How they hit him with that captive bolt

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Speaker 1: then they hang them up. I think they cut their

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Speaker 1: jugglar and Na's app him with electricity. Uh and it

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Speaker 1: does a number of things. But man, when I hit

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Speaker 1: him with that, they just relax. So this guy made

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Speaker 1: this thing and he was marking it to hunters. You

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Speaker 1: run it off a car battery, but apparently you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to like run over there, so damn, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: pretty quick over there, Like so damn quick that you

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Speaker 1: there's there's like a there's a time limit. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean like when they do with cattle, it's within seconds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and you have to have a car battery

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Speaker 1: with you. I've heard that guys like I've heard that

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Speaker 1: like commercial shooters like down in Texas, that shooting on

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Speaker 1: the go out and you know, shooting non natives that

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Speaker 1: that going to the meat market that they did they

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Speaker 1: use I don't know if they use that product, but

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Speaker 1: they're out there shocking them. So what's the advantage. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to get a meat scientist. There's this meat scientists

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Speaker 1: I want to get on who's at Purdue University. And

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Speaker 1: because I could tell you why, I think what it

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Speaker 1: has to do with like how the animal goes through

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Speaker 1: has to do with how the animal goes through rigor

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Speaker 1: mortis mhm um, and there's some other complicating factors there.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to do it because I want

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Speaker 1: to have a guy come in who really really knows.

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Speaker 1: So for the hanging thing I did, uh, it was

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Speaker 1: a professional butcher who who didn't gave him presentation. I

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Speaker 1: was at a professional butcher you know. Um another one, Mark,

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Speaker 1: we'll introduce everybody in a second. Here, Mark, what's the

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Speaker 1: name of your trailer? Camp with trailer? Oh? I mean

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Speaker 1: I haven't like named it. No, I don't mean that.

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Speaker 1: If you did, I wouldn't even want to know. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't want to know. You mean, what's the model? The model?

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Speaker 1: What is it? It's a Fleetwood Pioneer. I think we

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Speaker 1: were I've been paying or Frontiers Pioneer Frontier one of

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Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, that's a reasonable name because I've been

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Speaker 1: me my wife are shopping for a new camper trailer.

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Speaker 1: So I've been paying a lot of attention to camper trailers,

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Speaker 1: like we're kind of like kicking around, you know, looking

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Speaker 1: at the our our pod and other kinds. Was Now

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Speaker 1: whenever I drive by a trailer, I check them out.

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Speaker 1: And there's been like a weird shift in trailer names

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Speaker 1: where now they give them like really aggressive names and

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Speaker 1: paint like aggressive like claw marks in them and stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm talking about it Yeah, uh, it

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Speaker 1: just means that generation acts has come of trailer buying.

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Speaker 1: It's like bone names. In the nineties, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of names like that executioner yo so I saw

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Speaker 1: in their day called the Vengeance, like it's wants out

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Speaker 1: to get vengeance upon you and they hook up their

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Speaker 1: fifth wheel. And then there's one called the Prowler, which

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Speaker 1: is weird. I've seen that one, But that's weird because

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Speaker 1: if you have if you have a problem, you call

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Speaker 1: the cops. True, he wouldn't want to haul it around

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Speaker 1: behind you. Yeah, like the Spider. But yeah, they used

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Speaker 1: to have names. I feel like they used to have

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Speaker 1: names like yours, like the Pioneer I saw in the

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Speaker 1: other day called the Solstice, which I can see Johanni liking.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot like After States. There's the Montana, there's

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Speaker 1: the I've seen the Wye Homing, I've seen the Forester. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but now it's like they're trying to be like that.

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Speaker 1: They're badass, and they got like like claw marks or teeth. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it just feels like it just feels like a

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Speaker 1: camper trailer. It's like you can't put lipstick on a pig.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a hard cell. But are you happy

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Speaker 1: with yours? I know you had to remodel it. Margar

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Speaker 1: remodels trailer. Now, why are you laughing at that? States

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Speaker 1: the idea of remodeling the trailer. Yeah, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was old and decrepit when we bought it. We got

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Speaker 1: a great deal on it and but ended up finding

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Speaker 1: that there was a lot more damna. So we had

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Speaker 1: to replace the roof, putting new floors in, putting new hardware,

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Speaker 1: and redid a lot of interior stuff, completely renovated the interior.

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Speaker 1: So now it looks like a you know, our own design,

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Speaker 1: all painted, all new cabinets, new stuff like that. So

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Speaker 1: it's cool. It's nice. I've been inside of it. How

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Speaker 1: many people sleep in there? Uh? To my wife and

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Speaker 1: I and our son. But how many could sleep in there?

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Speaker 1: You could do four? I guess if you put two

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Speaker 1: like young kids on the pull out table. Yeah. See

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Speaker 1: we had a third kid by accident, Yeah, which really

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Speaker 1: like I like, and I knew that it was trouble

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Speaker 1: when it happened, but I didn't even know about um

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Speaker 1: the implications for camper trailer shopping. Yeah, you could stick

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Speaker 1: one on the floor. They're like they camper trailer companies

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Speaker 1: are generally don't like families of five. Yeah. I need

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Speaker 1: to find one of those companies out of Utah where

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Speaker 1: they make you know what I mean, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of them don't see where you're going there. A lot

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Speaker 1: of them don't cater to people who had too many children. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's no joke. I spent two years in Utah and

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Speaker 1: it's just one giant family after another. Oh yeah, people

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Speaker 1: there would be like, how do you guys even't have

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Speaker 1: more kids? When I walk around feeling like there's too

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Speaker 1: many of them. Restaurants don't even have two tops and

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Speaker 1: four tops. It's just nothing but sixes and eights. Like

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Speaker 1: I told you, you're welcome to give it a test

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Speaker 1: drum if you want to see how the family fits. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I might go out and take your camp

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Speaker 1: or trailer out. It's cool. It's cool though. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: got new solar set up in it now after everything

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Speaker 1: got stole, we got new batteries, we got new propane.

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Speaker 1: Everything's fresh and radar rock and roll. Yeah. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear this that Mark Um parked his camper trailer. I

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Speaker 1: was in the car listening to that conversation. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then someone ripped all of his stuff off, and the

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Speaker 1: owner of the place he parked it was like, huh, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he parked it in a secure a lot, supposedly locked

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Speaker 1: the monitor. You explain that it was like park at

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Speaker 1: your own risk, Like he assumes no responsibility for this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, you know, last summer when I put

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Speaker 1: it in there, if he gave me a rundown or

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Speaker 1: maybe it was in the fine print, I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: But now we we just dropped it off in a

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Speaker 1: new store facility because we're still you know, we're still

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Speaker 1: going to try our luck. But this place seems much

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Speaker 1: more reputable. They've got surveillance cameras, barbed wire, fans great Gate.

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Speaker 1: There seems to be something. There's human presence there more often,

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Speaker 1: and they very clearly articulated, had a much more professional contract.

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Speaker 1: The whole process seemed a lot more legit looking back.

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Speaker 1: This guy, you know, he was the only one available,

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Speaker 1: so we just went with what we could get. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm go on a place with like a dude with

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Speaker 1: the eight seventy over his shoulder walking walking to the premier.

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Speaker 1: I feel better about this one. But she did this

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Speaker 1: time made it clear, like, hey, we do everything we

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Speaker 1: possibly can. We have monitoring, we have the gate, etcetera, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: But you do need to understand there's two people that

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Speaker 1: have access to this facility. People can come out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might have got ripped off by another camper trailer

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Speaker 1: or possible. You should go look through all the windows.

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Speaker 1: They could. At this point I'm kind of over it,

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Speaker 1: but I could. Yeah, look in their camper window, there's

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Speaker 1: my battery. It's weird, though, is whoever did it had

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Speaker 1: a strange agenda because, for example, they took our forks

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Speaker 1: and knives but left the spoons. Were they sterling and

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Speaker 1: the spoons were no? It was all just really cheap stuff.

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Speaker 1: They took some paintings that my wife, but some cool

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Speaker 1: artwork just kind of make it feel different. They took

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Speaker 1: some left others they left that makes sense. They left

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Speaker 1: yettie mugs, but took like cheap plastic wear. They took

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Speaker 1: our batteries and our solar inverter, left the panels. They

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Speaker 1: took some of my tools, didn't take some what kind

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Speaker 1: of tools did they have? What are they like? They

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Speaker 1: took like my ratches set, they took cordless drill took

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Speaker 1: left my hammer, left some screwdrivers. Ah, did they go

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Speaker 1: into your drill bit assortment and just pull out a

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Speaker 1: certain diamond drill bits because they might have been doing

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Speaker 1: something really specific man influence. Yeah, no, they took both

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Speaker 1: of I had like two nice boxes full of bits

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Speaker 1: and stuff all gone. So yeah, on the bridg how

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Speaker 1: much money did you get wiped out of? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I probably put another like five bucks into replace stuff

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Speaker 1: just to get going again. For the batteries, propane inverter,

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Speaker 1: some basic tools, which just like to kill that guy. Man,

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Speaker 1: it was it was shitty, like we just we were

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Speaker 1: all excited to get to the camper because we've been

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Speaker 1: traveling for ten days and we're like, all right, we'll

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Speaker 1: get to the camper that's our home for the next

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Speaker 1: six weeks. We can get in a routine. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's challenging with a one and a half year old

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Speaker 1: in the tent and trying to do that whole thing

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Speaker 1: leading up to it. So when something like that happens

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Speaker 1: to me, I spend months just thinking about how cool

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Speaker 1: it would have been if I could have caught him

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Speaker 1: and just defiled them, like like the things that I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even want anyone to know about. Um last thought

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Speaker 1: on campers, and we got get to our business at hand.

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Speaker 1: Is a complicating factor with the camper trailers. You know,

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Speaker 1: I have an F one fifty. I want to pull

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Speaker 1: up behind the F one fifty. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: go buy a new Imferey going buying a whole new truck.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't need to have, no, but mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna put like some five mile long fifth wheel on.

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Speaker 1: Well you don't want that anyways, do you know? I

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Speaker 1: want to be able to get into cool little spots.

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Speaker 1: Yanni or he. Yanni's incredulous of a camper in general.

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Speaker 1: He thinks it's stupid. I mean, I didn't like the

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Speaker 1: Eddie either, but when it came to having kids and

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Speaker 1: stuff and doing long trips like we're doing several months

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Speaker 1: at a time. Um, it was the option, best option

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Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, I want to be clear, this is

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Speaker 1: strictly a function of having children. Yeah, we usually camp

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Speaker 1: under a truck like car camp would be like if

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Speaker 1: it rains, you've slide under the truck, like have a tent.

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Speaker 1: But it's just now I want to be like all

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Speaker 1: rigged up because by the time if all five of

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Speaker 1: us are going camp and by the time you get

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Speaker 1: five sleeping bags, fix sleeping pads to I just want

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Speaker 1: all that stuff to be in something. Yeah, I get it,

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Speaker 1: you know, load up the crayfish traps and hit the road,

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Speaker 1: get after I like the size of those R pods

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Speaker 1: like that. It's the size if I was going to

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Speaker 1: get a new one, I would get something like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but someone's got to sleep out under the trailer, which

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Speaker 1: is fine. I mean the youngest, a four year old.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, sorry, buddy, you gotta sleep under

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Speaker 1: the trailer and enjolia. I just feel like it limits

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Speaker 1: yet a little bit where you're gonna go that. That's

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Speaker 1: the only reason I'm a little it does. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you Understand what I'm saying with the whole packing

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Speaker 1: up situation. Understand. And then we're like a turn packing

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Speaker 1: my truck with all that ship to set up a

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Speaker 1: car camp. It's a pain. Yeah, And then like Turkey

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Speaker 1: camp this year starts raining and we're out in the

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Speaker 1: gumbo and then just everything just goes downhill. Then my

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Speaker 1: wife's like, you know what, my time to head home.

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Speaker 1: Once every you know, it's just like it's hard with

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Speaker 1: We just had this conversation last night about marking the

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Speaker 1: new kids coming. It's different. Oh, that's right, you're having

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Speaker 1: a whole another one. Yeah, are you still being all

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Speaker 1: secret you about your you know which thing that the

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Speaker 1: other one? Remember the advice I had for you that

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Speaker 1: was the contradicted your publisher's advice. Yeah, we can talk

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Speaker 1: about its. Got a book coming out coming out, tell

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Speaker 1: everyone real quick. Then we gotta get on what we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be doing. Yeah, I got a book coming

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Speaker 1: out December one. It's called That Wild Country, an epic

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Speaker 1: journey through the past, present, and future of America's public lands.

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Speaker 1: So taking a look at you know, we all talked

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Speaker 1: about this public land stuff, but I got into it

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Speaker 1: from Outsider's perspective. Right, I'm from Michigan. The last decade, though,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten to experience these places a whole lot, spent

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Speaker 1: a few months every year. UM. So decided, like I

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Speaker 1: personally wanted to learn more about what led us to

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Speaker 1: this point that we're in where there's so much contention

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Speaker 1: around the topic. So the book examines everything that that

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Speaker 1: got us to this point, and it's told through a

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Speaker 1: series of my own hunting, fishing all around the country,

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Speaker 1: rafting trips, cross country, top to bottom. What's the fur

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Speaker 1: to south? You get m hmm, Arizona. What's the fur

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Speaker 1: to the east? Get Michigan. North is Alaska above the

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Speaker 1: Arctic Circle. We're close to the Arctic circle west. Uh. Well,

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Speaker 1: Nevada covered the whole damn country pretty close. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The next time someone to ask you that, do think

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Speaker 1: of something better? Because Nevada and Arizona are close together,

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Speaker 1: you want to make it northern Nevada at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that makes me think, like northwestern Montana. That's pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty far west. Um, And it comes up when can

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Speaker 1: people go? By December one? I got a ways to go.

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Speaker 1: You can pre order you can pre order that it's

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Speaker 1: the best title. It's pretty good in any book in

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. I

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Speaker 1: also like Larry Mertry's all my friends are going to

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Speaker 1: be strangers. But that Wild Country is a close second.

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Speaker 1: Stems from a quote from Walt Stegner talking about you

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Speaker 1: know how we still need that Wild Country if for

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Speaker 1: no other reason than to, you know, sit there in

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Speaker 1: the office and think about or walk to its edge

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Speaker 1: and look over it. It's part of the geography of Hope,

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Speaker 1: he said. And uh, and I that resonated with name.

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Speaker 1: Did you think about naming it the geography of Hope? Uh?

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Speaker 1: It seemed to to Uh. I don't want to say cliche,

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Speaker 1: but it's been used, like people talk about this article

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Speaker 1: titles the Geography of Hope and stuff like that. It's great,

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Speaker 1: it's a great title. But I thought that that Wild

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Speaker 1: Country would be a little bit off of that. But

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Speaker 1: still speak to it. Okay, you can come back on

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Speaker 1: in December when people can actually buy it. Yeah, people

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Speaker 1: will pre order stuff, but they don't like to. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I get that. Um, okay, everybody's got to do themselves. Now, Hank,

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Speaker 1: we already heard from you. You're talking about uh, hanging

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Speaker 1: deer up, yep, yep, Hank Forster. Quality Deer Management Association

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Speaker 1: A round the hunting heritage programs. So anything that educates

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Speaker 1: or recruits a new hunter, that kind of stuff. One

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Speaker 1: of the younger Hanks on the planet. Possibly, I haven't

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Speaker 1: looked into that yet. Go ahead. Ryan fior Um, senior

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Speaker 1: regional director, kind of in charge of grassroots operations, call

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Speaker 1: the Dear Management Association, leaving Eagle Long Long Tong, Jannie

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Speaker 1: and Matt Ross with the Quality Deer Management Association UM,

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Speaker 1: the assistant director of conservation and I appreciate you having us. Yeah, great.

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Speaker 1: How do we Let's say someone, you know, you're at

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Speaker 1: a party or whatever, an elevator and someone's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: what is uh, what's q d M A, What do

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Speaker 1: you guys do? What do you guys rip out? What

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Speaker 1: do you say? That elevator speech? Right? Like what do

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Speaker 1: you stay? Uh? You know, probably the first thing I

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Speaker 1: would say is, uh, we're a deer hunting organization. UM.

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Speaker 1: If the person deer hunts, they might get that and

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Speaker 1: they may not have heard of us, UM, but our

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Speaker 1: conservation organization for deer hunters, that's what we are. When

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Speaker 1: you say they might not. Yeah, every I think everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know what, let's do this real quick explain where

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Speaker 1: like q D M okay and q D M a

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Speaker 1: and where one ends and the other begins. So, quality

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Speaker 1: deer management is a concept that arrived around the mid seventies,

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Speaker 1: and it actually came that early. Yeah, seventy four, there

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Speaker 1: was a book UM named Producing Quality White Tails, that's

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Speaker 1: the title, and al brothers Murphy Ray Jr. Wrote the

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Speaker 1: book the both biologists out of Texas, and uh, that

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Speaker 1: book was kind of the beginning of a paradigm shift

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Speaker 1: and how people were thinking about deer um starting you know,

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Speaker 1: at the turn of the century. Really we had started

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Speaker 1: a program of protection and recovery and we can talk

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Speaker 1: about the histological part of that, but uh, dear populations

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Speaker 1: were starting to really skyrocket. And that book, the concept

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Speaker 1: of quality deer management was more about managing for dear

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Speaker 1: health UM habitat health. So it centered on three principles

385
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Speaker 1: quality deer management. And you can really manage any game

386
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Speaker 1: species really UM in the same way. But QDM is

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Speaker 1: based on trying to manage the dear the population of

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Speaker 1: what other whatever, and weal you're talking about UM to

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Speaker 1: not exceed what the habitat could support, so not to

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Speaker 1: exceed carrying capacity. That's the first principle. Second is to

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Speaker 1: have a balanced sex ratio, so have as many males

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Speaker 1: as females on the landscape. If you walk away from

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Speaker 1: the dear population and there's no human influence, eventually gets

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Speaker 1: close to one to one, two to one, where because

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Speaker 1: they're born, they're born at one to one, straight up

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Speaker 1: one to one basic humans. Uh, yeah, slightly heavier to

397
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Speaker 1: to the males, but they're born yeah, slightly heavier. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that that concept, like if you really walked away

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Speaker 1: from a deer population, it would it would correct itself. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then the third, the third principle of quality deer

401
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Speaker 1: management is to make sure that their deer or whatever

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00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: animal in all age classes, so you have young, middle aged,

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Speaker 1: and older individuals represented, not in equal parts, but that

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Speaker 1: there existent on the landscape. Again, walking away, Um, that's

405
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Speaker 1: what would happen naturally and uh, but but but but not,

406
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Speaker 1: it would be there'd be a stark drop off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it would be heavy. Like honestly, if you

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Speaker 1: looked at naturally occurring population where humans aren't influenced, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you would have like forty at least percent of the

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Speaker 1: population be the first age class because it's it's correcting

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Speaker 1: itself every time. Um. But go go back to that

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Speaker 1: thing a minute ago about that they're born at a

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Speaker 1: one to one male female ratio. Um. But but the females,

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Speaker 1: like an unhunted population, both the females love way longer

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Speaker 1: than the males. Uh they can, they do, yes, they do.

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Speaker 1: But when you account for all individuals that are born

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Speaker 1: in a year, you're seeing a slightly higher male to

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Speaker 1: female ratio, but not by much. It's just a couple

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Speaker 1: of percent. Like. But the reason I bring that up

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Speaker 1: is if the females are longer living. If you went

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Speaker 1: and looked at a total whole population, it's either they'd

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Speaker 1: stick around longer. Like, what's the oldest male you've ever

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Speaker 1: heard about? Uh, well, the oldest buck you've ever heard

424
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: about in the wild. Uh, there's been bucks that have

425
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: been killed in their teens, No kidding, really, yeah, you know,

426
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: in the wild, even in the wild, I think the

427
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: oldest yeah, late teens. Yeah, they look pretty haggard, they

428
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: got to look pretty yeah. Yeah, and in captivity they

429
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: can live older. I mean just where I hunt and

430
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: I'm from New York and uh, the property that I

431
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: hunt on before I started hunting there and kind of

432
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: talking to people about quality deer management and hunting that way,

433
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: they basically abstained from shooting doors, and we could talk

434
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: more about that too, but I convinced them that we

435
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: need to reduce the deer population. U let's start shooting

436
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: some doughs. And they had had abstained from shooting doors

437
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: for so long that within the first couple of seasons

438
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: we sho had some really old deer and I'm I was,

439
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm very interested to see those ages. So we age

440
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: all the deer that yeah, um box, not so much.

441
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: I mean it was very skew because they were shooting

442
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: all the bucks. Yeah, they were shooting all the bucks.

443
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: It was very very skewed. Most of the box were

444
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: young one one and two year old, but certainly one

445
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: year old, but we had sent teeth away. I we

446
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: aged the jawbones by their wear, but we I also

447
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: send an incisor in for any deer that looks really old,

448
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: including the does, and we one of the hunters on

449
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: the property killed the dough second or third season. That

450
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: was twenty and a half. Woh man, you should look

451
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: this up, Steve, I think you'd like it. But I

452
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: saw photos of a buck that made it to sixteen

453
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: and his antlers kind of ms reverted to row deer shapes.

454
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: They and I don't know if it's common, but they

455
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: they're antlers just kind of deform or like backtrack into

456
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: a different animal. Huh. It was really weird. Yeah, we

457
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: were kids, like you know, wow, we had so many

458
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: weird things, we believe. But if you got any kind

459
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: of misshapen antler, like alimation, and we'd be like, that's

460
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: a really old buck who used to be big. He's

461
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: like always always what we thought, you know, and usually

462
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: usually followed by the thought, we got to call that

463
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: deer right, because there's something wrong there was you didn't

464
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: know as a boy, and I remember this chance like

465
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: I remember this. Kind of part of my interest in

466
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: q d M is as a boy, everybody shot. If

467
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: you shot, like you just shot any buck you saw,

468
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: it would be a laughable idea that you would, like

469
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: let a buck walk past. I remember the first guy,

470
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: and I'm still friends with him. The first guy ever

471
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: heard of passing a deer up was a guy, a

472
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of Tim's Elton Rust who grew

473
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: up on a farm, and everything in deer hunting changed

474
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: all like two things happened at the same time. Three

475
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: things happened. Uh, you started to be able to hunt

476
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: from an elevated platform with a rifle, and that changed.

477
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: How it just changed, how like people that had access

478
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: to land, how they started to perceive the land. Because

479
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: it used to be that if someone had a farm, everybody,

480
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: not everybody, but like like everyone from church or whatever

481
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: hunted that farm, and you just sit in the field

482
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 1: corners or whatever. Then when alst you can home from

483
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: an elevated platform, um, people who own the farms or

484
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: their immediate family, right would all a sudden build these

485
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: giants platforms, and then you needed less people out because

486
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: you you can see so much more. And it was

487
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: right around the time when people started like thinking about

488
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: like bucks became like valuable. You know. It was used

489
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: to be just like, oh, everybody comes out, we shoot

490
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: deer and philidor tags, and then all of a sudden

491
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: it became that like it just became much more restrictive

492
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: because deer kind of co modified a little bit, you know,

493
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: and then people then people will be like, well, they

494
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: didn't want other people hunting because they were trying to

495
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: grow big bucks well. And and then then the whole

496
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: culture of deer hunting change in my area of Michigan.

497
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: It was kind of a wave across the country. Really.

498
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean that that book was written, but this didn't

499
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: happen till that. This didn't happen till the early to

500
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: midnight nineties, right. So the way, the kind of the

501
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: order of how things happened was that book was written,

502
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: which is where quality, the word quality came from Quality

503
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: Deer management, the concept and h our founder was a

504
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: biologist for the South Carolina Department and not to Resources.

505
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: What was the name Joe Hamilton's Yeah, and he's still

506
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: with us today. He's he's been with us. We were

507
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: thirty first year UM he uh was responsible And I

508
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: don't remember the exact year, but it was in the eighties.

509
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: UM of hosting a regional conference that happens in the

510
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: South called the Southeast Dear Study Group meeting. Each state

511
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: agency takes turns hosting it and it's where all of

512
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: the agency folks get together and a lot of academics

513
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: and they talk about the latest concepts of deer research.

514
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: UM monitoring all all types of deer management related things,

515
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: and South Carolina hosted it that year. Joe was an employee,

516
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: and uh he invited the author of that book, producing

517
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: Claudie white Does, to be the keynote speaker, because it

518
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: was this new concept. It was five ten years five

519
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: years older so at the time. And he took that

520
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: thought and that and and hearing that person speak and

521
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: went back to his job. Joe worked in a part

522
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: of South Carolina, he didn't cover the whole state, and

523
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: he worked with about eight hundred hunt clubs. And uh,

524
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: the book really was starting a change in how people

525
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: were thinking about dear going from you know, a time

526
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: of trying to build a lot of the southern states

527
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: were actually uh um, bringing deer in and and trying

528
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: to build population restocking them. And a lot of hunters

529
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: had that thought process of you don't shoot those it's

530
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, that would be almost a sin. We want

531
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: to build deer populations. But at the same time, if

532
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: you looked around, the habitat was really suffering. You could

533
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: see brows lines everywhere, and the age structure was out

534
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: of balance. Um, most males in the state, we're young.

535
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking about they wouldn't see past their first birthday.

536
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: So Joe said, you know what, I think I'm going

537
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: to start this local group. It wasn't meant to be

538
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: a what is now an international organization to communicate good

539
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: ways to manage those club properties. So we created a

540
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: newsletter and named it something like the South Carolina Quality

541
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: Deer Management Association. And these are clubs out of South Carolina. Yeah,

542
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: in a region of South Carolina. UM, I think that

543
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: was generally the low country. And uh, that just fast

544
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: forwarding through time, grew to to a state specific organization.

545
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: Within a short period of time, it was they covered

546
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: all of South Carolina, and then eventually we were named

547
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: the North American Quality Deer Measurement Association. And then just

548
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: cut and may at some point, because around the time

549
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: of the nineties, that concept almost burned like a fire,

550
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: going from South Carolina up through the Midwest and everywhere.

551
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that it didn't grab holding Texas first. Uh,

552
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: it's the birthplace of quality deer management. The concepts Texas

553
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: whole is. Yeah, Al Al Brothers and Murphy Ray and

554
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: a lot of their cohorror just they gave birth to

555
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: the idea. But the Association was born in South and

556
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: not hodifying it and organizing and the group was a

557
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: South Carolina idea. Yeah, and you know, organizing deer hunters

558
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: has historically been a pretty difficult thing. I mean trying

559
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: to get deer hunters to agree on something. And Joe

560
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: also that just help people, help people understand what you're talking.

561
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of dissension among deer hunters

562
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: in terms of weapons used, UH stra adages, whether they're

563
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: doing using dogs or drives or stand hunting, and it's

564
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: hard to get deer honors. Also to see that there's

565
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: a need for conservation in terms of there's a need

566
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: for an organization to tell him what to do, because

567
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: a lot of deer hunters feel like what grandfather, Grandpappy

568
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: told me is what we do, right, So it's that

569
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: that was difficult. But Joe had been spending some time

570
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: in Australia UM and also uh Tasmania and UH. He

571
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: had seen that they organized deer hunters through a group

572
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: called the Australian Deer Association I think is the a

573
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: d A and UH the way that they structured their

574
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: UM grassroots activities and even what they name like we

575
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: name instead of chapters, we have branches. That's that's fashioned

576
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: after the ADA Australian Deer Association. And he had spent

577
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: some time, he had been brought over there to speak

578
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: as a keynote speaker on some events and came back

579
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: and that's what's their program. I mean in Australian Tasmania

580
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: they have a quality deer management Tasmania wide for all

581
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: pretty much all the deer species down there. Deer all introduced. Deer, yeah,

582
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: they're all introduced, but there again just trying to say,

583
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: all right, looking at the deer, is there too many

584
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: for what the land can support? What's the buckado ratio?

585
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: And our deer represented in generally all age classes. That's

586
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: the concept your night. I was out to eat with

587
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: my wife and her body and uh guy puts a

588
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: piece of fish down in front of me and says

589
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: that's a Tasmanian UH ocean trout And I'm like, is

590
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: that right? So I look online and it's a someone's

591
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: like has an aquaculture facility and he's raising Pacific steelhead

592
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: and Tasmania marketing and under Tasmanian Ocean trout. I was like,

593
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: no one, I haven't heard of this fish literally a

594
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: bait and switch. So when you said Tasmania at Perk Ducts,

595
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: reminded me of my meal here at night, or a

596
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: portion of my meal there at night. Um okay, So

597
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: every gets all excited and it sweeps like wildfire. But

598
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: you know, I got another question about this because I'm

599
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: just like, I think of all this in context of

600
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: where I grew up. Is it do you think it's

601
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: possibly true that there were no like we didn't have

602
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: trail cams. We didn't have trail cams when I was

603
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: a kid, so late eighties, early nineties. But my feeling

604
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: looking back on it is that no dear like that

605
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: you could go out to a large property and say

606
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: that there are no dear living here that are older

607
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: than two, and if there's any of older would be surprising.

608
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: Is that ever true for real? That no dear where

609
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: you would actually walk into no box. I'm sorry because

610
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: like looking at the enormous pile of deer that our

611
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: collective group of family and friends at a property to

612
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: kill every year, and the fact that I could point

613
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: to one buck which is hanging on my mom's wall

614
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: to this day, which was like a freaking giant because

615
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: there was a hundred twenty in white Tail. Was like

616
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: people came from far and wide to look at that

617
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: deer and at a property scale, absolutely, and talking about

618
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: a statewide scale in those years. Being Ryan's from Pennsylvania

619
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: of the statewide harvest of bucks was one and a

620
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: half years old before they started changing some of the

621
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: things they did in Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania kills thirty thousand

622
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: deer year, yeah, Ben, a hundred fifty thousand bucks a

623
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: year and n or year in anifold. I wrote this

624
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: into the show one time. I think you talked about

625
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: covered it in the Mexico episode. He was the guy

626
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: that wrote in about Pennsylvania's age class. Oh yeah, because

627
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania were similar, you know, And I would just imagine

628
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: those statistics were pretty close. But to your point, our

629
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: camp same thing, you know, maybe it had a like

630
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: man like there was nobody passing a spike in arcamp. Man,

631
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: it's going down. I remember we had a late season

632
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: a late season bowl hunt once, not at once, but

633
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: they they'd run like late archery. And I remember sitting there.

634
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: It was in December, um and I remember sitting in

635
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: the field and counting nineties does yeah, and not a

636
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: single buck, and like, man, you shot if you shot

637
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: every buck you saw. We were just talking about that

638
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: as far as habitat, regeneration and everything. But I still

639
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: hunt the saving camp in gun season that I did

640
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: as a kid, and I mean we shot the deer,

641
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: but no, it was sacrilegious to shoot at them. He

642
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: there was just no way you were doing that. And

643
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: you would go to stand the first day of buck season.

644
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: That that's what it was. Was the first day of

645
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: buck season the Monday after Thanksgiving, And it was almost

646
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: like a badge of honor. Who saw the most dear?

647
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: You know, you come in for lunch, I'm a dear.

648
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: You see this more at forty seven? You saw forty seven?

649
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: You know, it's just your your spots better in mind

650
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: you saw thirty you know. Yeah, yeah, that's just waiting

651
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: for a buck. Yeah, I mean we never had that.

652
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: Like it was taboo and a lot of circles and

653
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,479
Speaker 1: even among my father's friends, it was taboo to kill doles.

654
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: But he really encouraged dose shooting, but not from a

655
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: management perspective. He just it was just stacking up deer,

656
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: that's just And even in Pennsylvania then we had two

657
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: weeks of buck season and then the fount that we

658
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: couldn't hunt on Sunday, so Saturday the buck season went out.

659
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: After the second Saturday, the following Monday was the opening

660
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: day of doze season. And it was almost like, you know,

661
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: the guys that hunted for two weeks in camp and

662
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: hadn't shot a deer, They're like, no, we get to

663
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: we get to unleash here. And just for three days

664
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: it was that shooting you know, everything that walks in

665
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: front of us type of deal because you finally get

666
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: some shooting, kind of get some shooting in. You know,

667
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: we're warm this gun up here. And then we were

668
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: talking about I was just thinking, I remember being a kid,

669
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: you know, like you and all you know of the

670
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: of the hunters bringing deer back and camping. They were

671
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: all looking back, know what I know now I probably

672
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: remember I can count on one hand how many of

673
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: the more two and a half years old. They were

674
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: all a year and a half old. But I remember

675
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: like the calm and conversation was, you know, you know

676
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: that much for hamlers man, they got a big body,

677
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, every year and a half old, ninety pound,

678
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, white tail buck you know he's a big

679
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: body or big The one guy on our camp used

680
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: to age them. I swear to God he would call

681
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: him slow walkers. You know, I'm looking for one of

682
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: them slow walkers like that, and I still use that

683
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: to this, uh slow walking slunger. Uh. So q DAM

684
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: girls out of South Carolina and starts spreading around the country.

685
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: And what does people's primary like, what is the primary

686
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: motivation do you feel that most people who were getting

687
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: into it? And when did it blow up? Like when

688
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: did it become a national thing? I think in the nineties.

689
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: I I joined and heard about it in the late nineties. Uh.

690
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: And now I lived in New Hampshire at the time,

691
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: so I think it took a while to get up

692
00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: to New England. But um, it became pretty commonplace, seeing

693
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: like the outdoor literature, you know, all the hunting magazines

694
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: out there. You'd see QTM throwing around in there. And

695
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: we have this discussion internally, I think organically the hunting

696
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: community was gunning that direction. If you think about when

697
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: outdoor television started and then people started shooting bigger bucks

698
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: on outdoor television and you know that, and then that

699
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: magazine articles. You know, I remember when a hundred forty

700
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: inch buck was huge and then fast you know that

701
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: was probably the mid nineties of the late nineties, and

702
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: then fast forward ten years and it had to be

703
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: a hundred eight inch buck, you know, So it just

704
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: kind of all happened together. You know, we ask you,

705
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: we ask ourselves. You know, where will we be if

706
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: it wasn't for television and vice versa? You know, we're

707
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: quality your management. Do you mean you mean that television

708
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: popularize the idea of shooting a big buck? I know,

709
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: I don't want I think it say popularize that. You

710
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: can look back at wait tail buck polls. You know,

711
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 1: like in my community we have art the club. That's

712
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: a good point, man. People have always wanted to kill

713
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: big bucks. It's always been there. The one hunt club

714
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: I go to. It's that they still have on in

715
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: the bar their first buck pulls. You know, they're the

716
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: people signed up for it and they kept you know,

717
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: over all those years. So the attraction of shooting big

718
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: bucks was all has always been there. But I think

719
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: through the outdoor channel or outdoor media however you want

720
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: to look at it, that just really boosted it. For sure.

721
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: That that wasn't I mean, we talk often about QDM

722
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: and a byproduct of it is Bigger Dear because you're

723
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: trying to push dear into older age classes. But when

724
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: Joe formed the organization, certainly that was probably the apple

725
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 1: that he hung in front of some of those clubs.

726
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: But he designed the logo with a basically a two

727
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: year old buck. He didn't want to make it a

728
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: gargage wan buck. Uh. It's standard eight point probably hunting

729
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: hundred engineer with a doll next to it. Because it's

730
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: all about trying to balance box and dolls. That's what

731
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: QDM is really about, all right. This gets to like,

732
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 1: I think, like a pretty important question is as people

733
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: adopt QDM or joined q d M A, the primary motivation,

734
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: regardless of regardless of what the mission is or the

735
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: side benefits or whatever, the primary motivation is that you

736
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: could grow a trophy buck on your property for the

737
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: for the joiner, yeah, I mean just for the for

738
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: the public, like that's what they see, right. I think

739
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: it depends we have a pretty good mix. Some people

740
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: want to learn how to manage the habitat for a

741
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: lot of different species. Um, we have a lot of

742
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: that information out there, But at the end of the day.

743
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: And I I tell people this all the time. I

744
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: mean especially you know, predominantly males or hunters. And just

745
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: like buck poles started, you know, sixty years ago. So yeah,

746
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 1: you know that the byproduct of bigger antlers is certainly

747
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: an attraction for sure, especially if you're managing your own ground,

748
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: you know. But I wouldn't say that that's the sole

749
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: reason people seek us out. I think it's important to

750
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: mention that we really try to deliver the science. I mean,

751
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: that's what we do, is we keep abreast of all

752
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: the search from the universities, and we try to communicate

753
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: that to the deer hunter. And uh, you know, you

754
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: you go out there and you talk to deer hunters,

755
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: and there's so many urban legends or misconceptions of what

756
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: dear do and how they work. And and I think

757
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: that's one of the strong suits of Q. Main what

758
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: they've done is we've really gotten people to understand, you know,

759
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: how they view the world and what they see, what

760
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: they smell, you know, all that kind of stuff. So

761
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: but but to what end, you know what I mean, Like,

762
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: what is the like if you had like let's say

763
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: you had a vision statement, what's the q d M

764
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: A vision statement. Remember where were the statements we're talking

765
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: about their day annie vision and mission. Yeah, what's the

766
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: like the vision like where would it lead? Like it

767
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: would lead to what, you know, the goals that I

768
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: was talking about. But you know, habitat herd and hunters.

769
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: You know, we want to look out for the deer,

770
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: their habitat and the future of hunting and what's like

771
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: the in your mind, what's the worst thing that could

772
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: happen to deer hunting? I think hunter loss. I mean

773
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: that's what I'm paid to do. But I think hunter

774
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: loss is the worst thing. You know, that's one of

775
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: our dark clouds. And CWD of course, Yeah, well that's

776
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 1: what I think. That. Yeah, that I think if if someone,

777
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: if a hunter were to contract c w D from

778
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: a deer, it would be the end of the game. Catastrophic.

779
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: Well that's talking about trivializing the actual service that hunters provide.

780
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: We do it because it's self serving. We want to

781
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: go out, we want to experience out the outdoors, we

782
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: want to get meat for our families, um, but we

783
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: also provide a very big service to to to everybody,

784
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: to all public by removing deer and keeping deer populations

785
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: at bay. And if that was trivialized or even fractured

786
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: to a point where people don't support hunting because right now,

787
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: most hunter, most of the non hunting public supports hunting

788
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: when when it's done for meat, it's two for deer

789
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: and turkeys. Yeah, but if you who's that that support, um,

790
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: it's not you know, we don't. We don't have it's

791
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: a privilege to go hunting. It's not a right. So

792
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: if we're not even allowed to do that to to

793
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: sustain that, it would be catastrophic. On a byproduct of

794
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: all that is that we fund the most of the

795
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: conservation in this country today. I don't think you can

796
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: say you hunt for conservation, but us hunting a byproduct

797
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: of that is funding our state agencies and most of

798
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: the conservation in this country. Yeah. I think that that

799
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: byproduct thing is interesting because um, now that now that

800
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: there's more public awareness among hunters or over around funding

801
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: structures for wildlife management. Um, like there's even this this

802
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: slogan like hunting is conservation, right, Uh, we could say

803
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 1: like conservation is a like even at its most base level,

804
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: conservation is a by product of hunting. But it doesn't

805
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that that's one's motivations. And to get into

806
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: that by product thing is I think that that's like

807
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: a little bit of what I imagine happens around quality

808
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: der management, is like people are motivated to do it

809
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: because they want to grow a large white tail on

810
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: their property, and a byproduct of that, like an unintentional

811
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: byproduct of that is probably like perhaps healthier deer hurts.

812
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of the kin to lots of

813
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: times we'll talk about the natural progression that many hunters

814
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: go through. Right, It's like you just want to figure

815
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: out how to kill a deer, and then you want

816
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: to kill a lot of deer, and then maybe you

817
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: want to hold out for a bigger deer. Many people

818
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: go through that kind of trajectory, not that you have to.

819
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: Then eventually you're you're older and you just want your

820
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: kids to kill a deer, and then you just want

821
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: to see it. So then I think there's something maybe

822
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: a little bit similar to that. As people get introduced

823
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: to QDM, many people, no doubt about to your point, Steve,

824
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: are drawn to it because they want to see bigger deer.

825
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: They've seen it on TV or they've read about, Man,

826
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: it'd be awesome to see deer like that, or two

827
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: experience two big bucks fighting in front of me, Like

828
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: that looks great, but I've never seen it in my

829
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: neck of the woods. And then you find out like

830
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: there's things that I can do here on my back

831
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: forward that might lead to better experiences like that. That

832
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: definitely lures people in. But I have found from my

833
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: own experience and like talking to a lot of people

834
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: that have taking a step into that world and explored it,

835
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: is that many people go in with that initial idea,

836
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: but then realize there's this whole breadth and depth to

837
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: quality deer management. So you get these people that are

838
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 1: interested in trophy bucks that five years from now though,

839
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: are all of a sudden thinking about quality, the habitat,

840
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: making sure that the dough harvest is in line, making

841
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: sure that age structure and sex ratio and all these

842
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: different things fall in place too. So you're kind of

843
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: getting them in with that candy, that apple. But then

844
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: there's a lot of byproducts benefits that people identify with

845
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: and and follow through in the long term. Yeah, I

846
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: can see that, Like it awakens you to this whole world. Hey,

847
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: what was the what was the you said, two of Americans. Yeah,

848
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: the most current data says that of the in public

849
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: approve of hunting deer in Turkey, and when you go

850
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: into other species like elk and stuff, it drops not

851
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: not significant. We can't drop that much for elk, does it.

852
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: I think it's in a low seventies or something, But

853
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: there is a significant you know. I think it's just

854
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: because you know, deer in Turkey in our backyards and

855
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, I saw a headline this morning that, um,

856
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: seventy five of the people in Britain oppose quote cruel

857
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: trophy hunting. So like you call them up and say,

858
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: do you support cruel trophy hunting? And if that's not

859
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: I want to hear from I don't like to hear

860
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: what the dude. It's like, oh yeah, sure it's cruel, right,

861
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: you sure it's cruel, because if it's cruel, I get

862
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: behind it. We have it, which I think a better

863
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: headline would be like, um, of the people in Britain

864
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: are sadistic. We have the same data though, Um, you know,

865
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: before this it was always at seventy percent of Americans

866
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: have proved hunting for food. If you put trophy in

867
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: that question. Yeah, what do you think that means? The people?

868
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I got all kinds of ideas of what

869
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: it means. I think that they mean. I think they

870
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: think it means that you didn't eat it. Yeah, yeah,

871
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: I think there's all kinds of negative connotations. It's it's

872
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: kind of ah, We've talked about the thousand time of song.

873
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: I want to get into it, but it's pretty um

874
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: that word needs a higher a pr agency. Well, I

875
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: think it's important also point out is what you're seeing

876
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: on a lot of the hunting shows is trophy deer management.

877
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: And we of course kind of taught a lot of

878
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: people the science of quality deer management and they took

879
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: it a step further, and so we are all ignored

880
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: other parts exactly, and so we are we're often viewed

881
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: as like trophy deer preachers, but it's not. It's people

882
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: have taken our stuff further than we you know, our

883
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: guidelines and and if that's what they want to do,

884
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: all power to them, but we're not slowly about that.

885
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: You know, there is a traditional dear management of quality

886
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: deer management and what trophy deer management. So you feel

887
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: like you've got the lessons from your organization, where um,

888
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: there's like a radical fringe who took the lessons from

889
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: your organization and went off off campus. And how would

890
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: one do that? Trophy deer management, Yeah, a lot of it.

891
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: Where does one end and the other one? So trophy

892
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: management is where um, there are some similarities in that

893
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: you're trying to um do the same three principles, but

894
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: where where you take it the next for the three

895
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: balance a deer her within the habitat, have a balance

896
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: sex ratio, and have deer in all age classes for

897
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: both males and females. It's hard to argue those three principles, Yeah,

898
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: you can't. Trophy management is keep keep deer within where

899
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: the habitat can sport in fact exceed nutrition, so that

900
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 1: each individual animal has excess nutrition, not just we try

901
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: to optimize it with q d M where there's maximum

902
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: hunting recreational opportunities where hunters get to see deer but

903
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: they also get to shoot deer. Um. With trophy management,

904
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: you're pushing deer populations to a point where there's lots

905
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: of deer out there, but they still have lots of food. Um.

906
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: You're also protecting bucks until they are at the maximum

907
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: size of antler growth, which research shows is anywhere between

908
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: five and seven years of age. All we say is

909
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: past year links two and older is up for game

910
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: where necessary. There's a lot of places in this country now.

911
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: In um our latest White Tie Report, we have statistics

912
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: tracking the percent of yearling bucks in the national harvest

913
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: and eight when we were formed, it was close to

914
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: sixty five of all bucks in the United States were

915
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: one and a half in the harvest, and fast forward

916
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: today it's about thirty and it drop. That's just and

917
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: that's the box that could kill in this country or

918
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: one of to have your yeah and you kind of

919
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: can put up the mission accomplished sign. And in a

920
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: lot of areas where there are deer that are now

921
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: in all age classes, you don't need to protect the

922
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: youngest age class anymore because by volunteerism, people shoot what

923
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: they want and they're represented. Some people will shoot small

924
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: deer and young deer. Some people will shoot older dear.

925
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: You don't have to protect the youngest age class at

926
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: all stages. It's only when it's imbalanced. Um so trophy

927
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: management is pushing bucks until they're at least five or older.

928
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: That's not quality deer management that's pushing deer intil. That's

929
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: where they have their largest set of antlers is between

930
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: five and seven. There's multiple research that shows those are

931
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: the ages where they hit the largest size. And then

932
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: for the sex ratio part, it's you would actually want

933
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: to skew it a little bit and have it more

934
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: males to females to make sure you meet that habitat requirement.

935
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: Let's say there's a Let's say there's a fellow hypothetically

936
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: and he manages a large ranch and he builds a

937
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: dossier on all the deer that lived there as much

938
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: as you can um and has candidates that he's selected

939
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: for eventual harvest. And in order to not stress those

940
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: bucks kills all that they kill, kills, all the books

941
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: he can that aren't in the in the candidates for

942
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: future harvest. With the end goal of every year he

943
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: makes two giants and then he's got two giants coming

944
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: up and then little ones that he's eyeball and based

945
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: on whatever to to get him up through. What's that

946
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: trophy management that's not cutem What what's he doing wrong? Well,

947
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: I mean not wrong, but what what would acute like?

948
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: What would be the difference there he's just taking it

949
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: to an extreme. I mean it's intensive management that's biologically

950
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: that the land is still healthy. So there's there's a

951
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: lot of positive still happening with that. It's just is

952
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: there a negative. It may be loss of opportunity for

953
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 1: some folks, Yeah, but I can like an ecological negative. No, Nope.

954
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: Often they're actually overharvesting those because I mean, these old

955
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: bucks they don't want to be pestered by young deer.

956
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you create a void, that's

957
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: where these old secluded bucks will will pull up. And

958
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're finding a lot from the research

959
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: that you know, the bucks that live longer don't travel

960
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: as much. They might not be prolific breeders. You know,

961
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: the deer get in trouble when they walk across roads,

962
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: are in front of our stands and stuff like that.

963
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: So kind of these homebodies are the ones that are

964
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: surviving um and especially to these super old age books

965
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: that's also been shown site fidelity or their likelihood to

966
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: be in the same place and also have home ranges

967
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: that shrink goes with age, So as a as a

968
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: buck ages, their home range doesn't expand they actually shrink, like,

969
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: is he most likely to be most uh ones the

970
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: deer most likely to wander the most in the fall

971
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: and in and oh yeah, definitely in the younger age

972
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: classes they move around more. Yeah they there, they will

973
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: every year they will. Their home range and core area

974
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: shrinks a little bit. And there's research out there. I

975
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: think it was done on the King's Ranch. Right, Um,

976
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: two and a half year old age class did most

977
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: of the breeding. Even the year and a half old

978
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 1: age class will still make up. Even in a trophy

979
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: management situation where you're pushing dear into extreme, you're still

980
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: gonna have yearling bucks out there, and they still contribute

981
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: about a third of the breeding to uh, the general population.

982
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 1: You can't stim me stymy that to the point where

983
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: they're not part of it. So the doll like so

984
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: the dolls even was a big buck around the dolls.

985
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: Let the dolls, let little bucks breed them. And sometimes

986
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: it's multiple paternity. There's been cases where twins or triplets

987
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: have different fathers sored a bout different fathers. How many

988
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: how many bucks might have dough breed I believe or not.

989
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: That's also been done in Texas. Um, how many will

990
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: he breed. Don't know how many bocks will one dough

991
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: have sex with? Uh, they will, they will in a

992
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: in a in a cycle, and they will cycle. They

993
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: will do it until she her extrius ends, so it

994
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 1: could potentially be multiple times. No, but how like, has

995
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: any ever paid attention to how many different bucks bread

996
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 1: and individual dough. I don't know the record on that,

997
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: but it's been at least three or four at least

998
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: three or four. Yeah, because there's that those cases of

999
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: triplets having three different fathers. I think it's of all

1000
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: twins have different fathers, and I have twins, and that

1001
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: was one of the first things he told me. You

1002
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: know that twins are sorry about different fathers, right, Okay,

1003
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: So when you see a dough with two fawns, of

1004
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: those pairs of fawns have different fathers, they're they're like

1005
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 1: half brothers and sisters. Yes, Now what about the opposite?

1006
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: How many different does might a single buck breeding a

1007
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: given fall? Has that been looked at? Yeah? So that

1008
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: and again not necessarily breeding occurrences, but in terms of

1009
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: contribution to the general population um out of Texas, Randy

1010
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: DeYoung at of Texas and m Kingsville did some really

1011
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: interesting research that showed that at least on the scale

1012
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: that they were operating, and it's a free range population,

1013
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: that the average buck sired no more than two or

1014
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: three fawns that made it to adulthood in their life,

1015
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: in their life, in their life. Because that would be

1016
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: that that would be like replacement. Yeah, you know, that'd

1017
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: be like enough to sustain a population. But again, you

1018
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: you think about the misconceptions or myths that hunters were

1019
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: taught years ago, was that bucks would have home ranges

1020
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: that would uh you know, expand every year into every

1021
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: until they were the king of the forest. Um, they

1022
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: would hair them up their dos much like elk, and

1023
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: that they were contributing the biggest antler bucks were just

1024
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: pumping out lots of offspring and that's how you get

1025
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: all these other older bucks. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna walk

1026
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: over the Yeah that's not the case. But there has

1027
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: been some advantage of being a big buck. Well, wasn't

1028
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: there some research that showed that large antlers were a

1029
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: sexual chosen They were chosen for a little bit, they

1030
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: were selected for a little bit more by dose. And

1031
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: that was just a couple of years ago. They were

1032
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: at our convention actually they were those in a pen

1033
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: would actually there were different bucks sectioned off in a

1034
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: pen with different sized antlers, and the does would pick

1035
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: which one they had to make with. Yeah. The Mississippi State,

1036
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 1: uh Dan Marina I think his last name was, did

1037
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: a study where they actually were able to use captive deer.

1038
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: They cut they're antlers off once hard and secured a

1039
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: attachment to the bottom of the antlers so that they

1040
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: could swap antlers out from individual bucks so they could

1041
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 1: make that buck who was big small and that buck

1042
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: who was small big antler wise, and would pair them

1043
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: with receptive dos, and the doughs generally chose bucks with

1044
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: larger antlers. Shellow Man, Yeah, Shellow really, Yeah, that's really fascinating.

1045
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: That's a good idea for a study. It was cool.

1046
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: It was really cool. Then they had the does were

1047
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: pinned up and they would literally like back themselves into

1048
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: in front of the buck of their choosing. It was

1049
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: really cool. I mean from that perspective. No, that's fascinating, man,

1050
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. This is Hank mentioned it earlier.

1051
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: I mean that's really fun stuff like that. Yeah, we've

1052
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: been really concentrating again the big issues and what Our

1053
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: vision is what's the biggest uh, you know crises that

1054
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: are happening with deer and and hunting and conservation is

1055
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: we're trying to shift a lot of that and we

1056
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: are towards chronic wasting disease. But we have funded a

1057
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: lot of research on habitat management, teaching people, UM things

1058
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: on fire forest management. UM. This latest magazine has a

1059
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: really cool study in there out of Tennessee looking about

1060
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people think if you fertilize

1061
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: oak trees, they're gonna make more acorns. Uh. That's when

1062
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: a that's not true. So we found Yeah, we funded

1063
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: a lot of research. Hank mentioned it earlier that you know,

1064
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: think of us broader wildlife implications all of that and uh,

1065
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: hunters working together cooperatives. There's a really cool study that's

1066
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: going to be published soon about when you get neighbors

1067
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: working together and form cooperatives, which are huge in Michigan,

1068
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: UM in Texas and many other places. The conservation of

1069
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: biodiversity that happens at the landscape scale is better and

1070
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: more intensive than places where people are not working together. UM.

1071
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: So that landscape level management, what's the cooperative look like? Uh?

1072
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: The average cooperative in the country is probably about fire

1073
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: acres and where between five and ten land owners working together,

1074
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: but it varies. There's ones out there that are hundred

1075
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: thousand acres with hundreds of landowners and it's a bunch

1076
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: of mugs who all agree to like a certain set

1077
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: of principles. Yeah, they met preseason and say, uh, you

1078
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: hunt your place, I'll hunt mine. But let's all agree

1079
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: to do this and we'll meet up next year and

1080
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: see how things are going. In Michigan today. These are formal, Uh,

1081
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: they don't have to be. It could be as simple

1082
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: as that. Erators we have some they're much more complicated.

1083
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: They meet, you know, quarterly even, but just some sort

1084
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: of immigram. But the important part is that I guess

1085
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: the successful ones you don't punish anybody. I mean you,

1086
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: you're part of a really good co ops. So you

1087
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: can just speak to that how yours works well at

1088
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: a at a kind of a scale in Michigan. Just

1089
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: to give you an idea of how popular they are.

1090
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: UM Michigan, there's an organization there that we partner with

1091
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: called the Michigan Michigan United Conservation Clubs. We I used

1092
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: to be a member of that when I lived there, because, uh,

1093
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: to sell for at the Ravana for auction, you had

1094
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: to be a member of Michigan Trappers Association, and if

1095
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: you remember Michigan Trappers Association, by default you were a

1096
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: member of muc C. And then you got the MUCC

1097
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: publication Michigan out of Doors, right, not outdoors but out

1098
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: of doors. Out of doors a good magazine. Man TV

1099
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: show like that too, there, Fred Trolls TV show. I

1100
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: believe that was Freends. Yeah, he was ahead of his

1101
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: time man, because you'd have a wild game segment. Kid.

1102
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: He always liked everything people made. He was never like dah,

1103
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: tastes like shit. He always like that's great. He seemed nice. Yeah,

1104
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: and he would get dear ras and to count the

1105
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: antlers if he could hang his wedding ring on it,

1106
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: they counted there. And he was running a metal ring nowadays,

1107
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: if he had a silicon ring, you have a lot

1108
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: more antlers on deer, yeah, a lot a lot of

1109
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: our points. You han't has some bitch on anything, man,

1110
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,440
Speaker 1: but a metal ring was hard to hang on a

1111
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: little degger you have, he'd have a lot of thirty

1112
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 1: forty pointers coming off. But okay, Mucca said, I took

1113
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: a little trip on memory lane there. Man, that's okay. Uh,

1114
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: we have there's a person that works that's uh an

1115
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: m UCC employee, but q d M a pheasants forever

1116
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: we all fun part of that person's sality that works

1117
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: with cooperatives. And today there's over acres in Michigan in

1118
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: private landowner cooperatives in that state, which now exceeds actually

1119
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: more than what the state game area. Uh yeah, Now

1120
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: what are some of the tenants Like, let's just say

1121
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: you took some average cooperative So it's okay, Just just

1122
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: people understand we're talking about a bunch of different properties.

1123
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: They all border each other. Um that forms this contiguous

1124
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: block land. It doesn't have to be and it's like

1125
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be continued. It could be a

1126
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: hot like a checkerboard. Checkerboard. Now, a cooperative doesn't mean

1127
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: that you all get to go ever you want. You

1128
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: hunt your own place, but you hunt under certain guidelines.

1129
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: We will be an example of some of the guidelines.

1130
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: They hunt like we're all going to agree to shoot

1131
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 1: a shipload of dolls that would be one yeah, or

1132
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: we're all gonna pass yearling Bucks if they want to

1133
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: grow bucks and older age classes or and sometimes they

1134
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: advance that and individual properties go higher than others. UM

1135
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: certainly habitat management, coordinating habitat management, or even purchasing equipment

1136
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: together so they can get price deals on things because

1137
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: they're all in it together. Fertilizer, and then and then

1138
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: sharing information during the season after I found personally from

1139
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: being involved with some loose type cooperatives, UM, just the

1140
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: you kind of get the deer camp effect but expanded,

1141
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: and I have multiple people that are sharing stories. I

1142
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: saw this buck, I saw that one too, and after

1143
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: this season you kind of know what happened to different

1144
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: degree might have seen or there's other folks to help

1145
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: you get in there and track a deer down and

1146
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 1: then like oh I found this deer shed or I mean,

1147
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: it just builds that community effects. So there's benefits both

1148
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: socially and ecologically. But everybody's still gaming for sure. There's

1149
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: still everyone's got their own self serving sides to like,

1150
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't say to one dude, like we've

1151
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: decided that your place is the sanctuary. He's like, oh man,

1152
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool though, And they don't need there's no

1153
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: they don't formalize it, but people will help them organize it. Yeah,

1154
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: we have employees in other states that do the same thing.

1155
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: In Alabama, we work with Alabama Wildlife Federation have employed there.

1156
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: We got two guys in Missouri that are co funded

1157
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: with the Missouri Department Conservation. They pay part of the salary,

1158
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: We pay part of the salary. But that's their their jobs.

1159
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: And you say you see increased biodiversity, about what measure

1160
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: It's a thesis that hasn't been published yet, but looking

1161
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: at digitizing those properties and looking at the the UM

1162
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: delineation basically the straight line of where different habitat types

1163
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: meat or those vegetation type will meet, and looking at

1164
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 1: nearby properties of similar scale and seeing if the diversity

1165
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: at least from the sky um is the same, and

1166
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: then asking the hunters that hunt those co ops questions

1167
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: about satisfaction. That's also been shown UM in Michigan. There's

1168
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: a published study that shows uh, generally, hunters that hunt

1169
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 1: in those situations have higher satisfaction up to like, whereas

1170
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 1: hunters that are just hunting their own place is not

1171
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: working with their neighbors are generally satisfied with the way

1172
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: that things are going in their state. So and one

1173
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: of the strongest things that's kind of an unofficial byproduct

1174
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,439
Speaker 1: of them is state agencies being able to communicate something

1175
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: super effectively to a lot of landowners quickly. And in

1176
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: Michigan is a perfect example. When c W D hit

1177
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: in Michigan, um the the Michigan DNR was able to

1178
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: communicate with all of these private landowners basically through this

1179
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: one employee and her contacts with all of those leaders

1180
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: of those colors where they needed sampling, where they needed

1181
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,360
Speaker 1: to do town hall meetings. And they could have done

1182
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: that equally but not as efficiently by just doing them

1183
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: in public places and announcing them. They were able to

1184
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: go and target certain places and uh collect more samples

1185
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: that way too. The biodiversity thing on managed properties, I

1186
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: think that's something people don't really understand well, where people

1187
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: manage for wild like you know, you can say like

1188
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: I managed for deer, but in some ways you're managing

1189
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: for wildlife. Earlier I mentioned a friend of mine from

1190
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: back home, Tim's eln rust. He's got he's got not

1191
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: a small property like by Western stands would be small.

1192
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: He's got a property he manages for deer. You go

1193
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: out there in the wintertime. It's unbelievable. The amount of

1194
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: bird life, rabbits, squirrels, birds, deer, bobcats, like, it's unbelievable.

1195
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: This is an area that's not like that, Like a

1196
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: a lot of this area's managed from maximum yield, maximum

1197
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: egg yield, or it's just getting developed. We have that

1198
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: and it's all disturbed. It's all disturbed like in that area.

1199
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: It's all disturbed landscapes. There's no like like it's it's

1200
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: a fiction to think that there's like a pristine right.

1201
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: This is like West Michigan, man. I mean people have

1202
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: been there and everything. There's no old growth timber anywhere.

1203
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: Everything's been disturbed. Virtually, everything's been killed at some point. Absolutely,

1204
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: everyone logged multiple times. There's no there's nothing like natural

1205
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 1: um isn't a thing there because you're not having like

1206
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: six you're not like forests aren't going through natural succession,

1207
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So he would like he

1208
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: to go in and take a piece of ground and

1209
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do wildlife on this piece of ground, Dude,

1210
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: Like you can. You could go in there with a

1211
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: blindfold on and just listen. You'd be like, there's something different.

1212
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: About this point Ryan just mentioned, we actually did some research.

1213
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: There was ten at least years ago, but University of

1214
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: Georgia did a study that we funded where they went

1215
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: to properties that had been doing dear management and specifically

1216
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: had been putting in and food plots because we wanted

1217
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: to see the impact of food plots in forested environments

1218
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: and did small mammal trapping and bird surveys and found

1219
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,439
Speaker 1: that within a buffer zone around food plots where they're

1220
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: punching holes in the forest canopy and putting a food

1221
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: plot in where their hadn't been, that there was higher

1222
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: species bio diversity in those areas compared to places that

1223
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 1: were just open or forested and not had been changed

1224
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 1: because the amount of how how very the area is. Yeah,

1225
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: he's got like he's got thickets, you know, hinge cut

1226
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: trees for betting areas. He's got food plots around, he's

1227
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: done water stuff, and it's like this big mosaic of

1228
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: all these different kinds of you know, hiding areas, feeding areas, trapped.

1229
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: Like he pays attention to travel corridors, allowing things to

1230
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 1: move around, and my god, does it make a difference.

1231
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,439
Speaker 1: One of the biggest components. That's missing is you either

1232
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: have straight uh just land that's agg or you have

1233
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: forests that are overmature and they go through those stages

1234
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: of succession and those earlier succession young forest stages that

1235
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: we call him a seer uh serial stage one and

1236
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: two and a little bit of three is what is

1237
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: declining throughout a lot of the country where we're not

1238
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: letting those things kind of revert because once they start happening,

1239
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: you get kind of the hair standing up in the

1240
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: back of your neck, and people want to want to

1241
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: do it. They want to clean it up, they want

1242
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: to bushog it, they want to make it look like

1243
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: something that we visualize as nice and neat and clean.

1244
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: And there. You know, there's a lot of generalist wildlife

1245
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: out there. Deer one of them. They do well in cities,

1246
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 1: they do and well in grasslands and forests. They live everywhere.

1247
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of species of animals that are

1248
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: niche specific, that rely on very specific stages of succession.

1249
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: Like you wouldn't expect to find a gray squirrel, which

1250
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: relies on forests in the middle of a grass fland

1251
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: savannah because they wouldn't be there, and you wouldn't find

1252
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: an Eastern meadow lark in the middle of the forest

1253
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: because they like grasses. So that was younger forest succession

1254
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: stages where you have thickets and young trees coming in

1255
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: um hosts a very wide birth of animals, and a

1256
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: lot of deer hunters are getting involved in programs like

1257
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: CRP or their hinge cutting, or they're doing something because

1258
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: they want to hold deer on their properties. There's a

1259
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: lot of food benefits to not just cover and that's

1260
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: why you're seeing the response from animals like that, and

1261
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: that's that's a byproduct of hunting. The hunters are trying

1262
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: to do that for deer, but you're seeing the response

1263
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: in other ways. Yeah, it gets into the this thing

1264
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 1: we got earlier, like the intended and unintended consequences, or

1265
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: it gets into this idea that that someone enters into

1266
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: that motivated by something that might be regarded as fairly superficial,

1267
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 1: meaning man, I wish I could have a big buck

1268
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: on my farm, and then a decade down the road

1269
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 1: you have these other sets of realizations about what you've

1270
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: kind of accomplished from a wildlife perspective, and that you

1271
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: like create some kind of menagerie. Yeah, And that's what

1272
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: I was saying earlier, is that you get a lot

1273
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 1: of guys and gals that get involved in it for

1274
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: the first first reason, but then they realize how much,

1275
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: you know, how much they enjoy the other part of it.

1276
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: That that getting dirt on your fingernails and doing something

1277
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: and watching wildlife respond. It's it's a it's an extremely

1278
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: satisfying thing to do. You guys have been involved in

1279
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, and I I don't think I am.

1280
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:44,520
Speaker 1: You've been involved in promoting UH states putting up antly restrictions.

1281
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: Talk about that a little bit, like what kind of

1282
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 1: what the pros and cons are? What the public perception

1283
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: of that is? Why do some people? You know, why

1284
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: would one support it? And why would one not like it?

1285
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: All Right, so we have a a policy on Antler

1286
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: restrictions where we want them to pass a three part

1287
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 1: test in our eyes before we would support anything remotely

1288
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: close to that. The first would be, um, is it

1289
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: biologically needed? You do? You might explain Antler restrictions, no problem.

1290
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: An restrictions are a tool that that state agencies or

1291
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: private land managers will use. Let's talk about just like

1292
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: government level state agency level to move dear into older

1293
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 1: age classes, they can be UM something that would be

1294
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: selective and harvest, where you're saying only deer of a

1295
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,840
Speaker 1: certain characteristic will be able to be shot. Point restrictions,

1296
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: so if a deer has so many points, spread restrictions,

1297
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: if it's antlers are so wide or why, or you

1298
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: can shoot them. Um. Sometimes there's combination approaches. Sometimes it's

1299
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 1: if they're antler beam lengths are long enough and you

1300
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: can judge that by looking at the deer in the profile.

1301
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 1: Those are all um antler restrictions where they would they

1302
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 1: would actually make select of harvest to the hunter who's choosing.

1303
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: There's other ways to actually move dear into older age

1304
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: classes too that are not part of that, which would

1305
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: be reducing total buck harvest by changing seasons, moving days, weapons, um,

1306
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: going from something that's easily uh, you know, like going

1307
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: from a modern firearm to a primitive weapon and all

1308
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: of those tools to say, instead of a hundred and

1309
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 1: fifty thousand bucks being killed in the state, let's killd

1310
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand next year, and we're automatically moving twenty

1311
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 1: five thou more deer into the next age class. So

1312
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: that's another form of moving dear. It's it's a it's

1313
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:40,600
Speaker 1: more of a quota based thing than selective harvest. So

1314
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,600
Speaker 1: there are restrictions in over twenty states today, either statewide,

1315
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: um as the only buck you can shoot, as a

1316
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 1: selection of if you can kill a couple of bucks,

1317
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: maybe applied to one of those bucks that you can shoot,

1318
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 1: or in smaller areas. UM, what's the most typical antler

1319
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 1: restriction A point restriction because it's the most easily enforced. Yeah,

1320
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 1: like in Texas, there's some width ones. Yeah, Mississippi too,

1321
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 1: I've heard all that's true enough. We've had people right

1322
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 1: in and say that the width ones leave a lot

1323
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 1: of deer laying out in the woods. There's just too

1324
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: hard people to make a call, and they shoot him

1325
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,719
Speaker 1: and they're shooting find him. You know, there's a valley

1326
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: we passed, We walked through a valley sheep hunting once

1327
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: hunting doll sheep. You know in the Alaska there's a

1328
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: lot of areas where it's gotta be a uh you know,

1329
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: there's a width requirement, like a fifty in requirement. And

1330
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: we found two moose skulls in a valley and almost

1331
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,640
Speaker 1: like a forty seven and amost forty nine. Yeah, we

1332
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: always thought like, man, that seems pretty weird. You know,

1333
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: I've heard that comment before, and I know that it's

1334
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: older data, but it's been proven to be not be

1335
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 1: true to be true. Yeah, that that people aren't just

1336
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: shooting deer and let letting them lie. Um, did they

1337
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: get up and put a tape measure on there? Like? Yeah?

1338
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: Point restricted are the most common, but um, they're also

1339
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: the the they're not the best in terms of protecting

1340
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 1: to hear because you can have deer if if the

1341
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,640
Speaker 1: goal is to move to hear from one to two, Um,

1342
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 1: you can have bucks that are spikes to ten points

1343
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: that are that are one years old. So a point restriction,

1344
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot more slack in that, which is why

1345
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: some states are trying to push hunters either into with

1346
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: more reliable it's a more reliable predictor of age, but

1347
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: again it's subjective because it's harder to judge the spread.

1348
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 1: That's a good point about the point thing, man, because

1349
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: you could have like a little you could have anything

1350
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: from a spike to like a little eight point. Absolutely,

1351
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: and if it's a statewide restriction, there's a lot of

1352
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 1: variety there in terms of the productivity of a certain states.

1353
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 1: So you have parts of some states that are super productive.

1354
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 1: You know, the soils are there, there's a lot of

1355
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 1: agg and those deer are going to primarily produce larger

1356
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 1: sets of antlers in their first age than ones that

1357
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 1: might be on lower productive areas. UM. So, a lot

1358
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 1: of states, well it will uh make sure Like in

1359
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania they have a split between the state and where

1360
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,800
Speaker 1: part of the state it's a four point on a

1361
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 1: side and part of its three. But there it just

1362
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: comes down to law enforcement. That's where the Antler restrictions

1363
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: UM typically come to. Points point restrictions is because it's

1364
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: easier to judge. You should be able to count and

1365
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: uh you know, if a law enforcement officer catches up

1366
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,960
Speaker 1: with you and checks your harvest and says, okay that

1367
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: one doesn't have enough UM or it does, it's easy

1368
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 1: for you know, black and white in terms of what

1369
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: the loss does. So the pros of Antler point restrictions

1370
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: is be that it just allows more dear to pass

1371
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 1: and do it allows more dear to pass through their

1372
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: year and a half old birthday. That is the goal

1373
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: and the best case scenario that first kind of rule

1374
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: of thumb that we use is is it is it biologically? Um?

1375
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: Is it created where it will protect the most yearling

1376
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 1: bucks if that's the goal, but allow the maximum number

1377
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: of two and older to be able to be harvested.

1378
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: Some of them there's enough slack there that it starts

1379
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: bleeding into the two year old age class. We don't

1380
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: want that to happen. So you want to make sure

1381
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: that the ant restriction, if it's necessary, is protecting the

1382
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 1: most uh first age class, but no other ones have you?

1383
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: Have you, guys ever supported or have you heard anybody

1384
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 1: put an idea that if the goals that have If

1385
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 1: the goal is to have um dear like you mentioned earlier,

1386
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: having dear of all ages, why don't you do a

1387
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: deal where once they're two and a half, you can't

1388
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: shoot them anymore, because then you have a whole shipload

1389
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,799
Speaker 1: of deer that were of all kinds of age classes.

1390
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 1: Like if you made it you can only shoot spikes

1391
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: and forks, that would achieve your goal. There of all

1392
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: kinds of old bucks running around, it would have the

1393
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 1: least palatability probably by hunters. But it's yeah, I mean,

1394
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: if we're just talking about true core mission. Yeah, like mission, Like,

1395
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 1: the mission isn't The mission isn't that people shoot big

1396
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: giant bucks. The mission is that you have dear of

1397
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: all ages. Why do you want to kill them all

1398
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: once or two and a half just for maximum opportunity?

1399
01:17:14,040 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: Hunter satisfaction is to come into place somewhere. So that's

1400
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: what that that's that just has to do with it.

1401
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 1: That would be untenable to people. Well, yeah, I mean

1402
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: a big part of managing wildlife is uh the hunter,

1403
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: the hunter side of it. And that's actually one of

1404
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 1: the other things that we look at with a restriction

1405
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: is is it biologically protecting the most uh the right

1406
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: number of deer and allowing maximum harvest on the other

1407
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 1: one to the majority of deer hunter support it. If

1408
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 1: deer hunters in that state or that region or you know,

1409
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 1: management unit don't support it, it's not worth doing. And honestly,

1410
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: even before I go any further, we are fans of

1411
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: not mandating this stuff. Oh yeah. In my home state,

1412
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: New York, we have avoluntary educational program that the State

1413
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: of New York launched three years ago and it is

1414
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,719
Speaker 1: showing a shift in deer harvest just by the state

1415
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:12,719
Speaker 1: agency saying if you'd like to see deer of older

1416
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: age classes, don't shoot young bucks. There's no law or restriction.

1417
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: It's education. Oklahoma is probably the place that is the

1418
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: poster child for successful voluntary programs through education. They started

1419
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: a slogan in the early two thousands hunters in the

1420
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: know let young bucks grow. You could buy bumper stickers

1421
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: or they gave them away and uh that state routinely

1422
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: is in the top five in the country in terms

1423
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 1: of older bucks in their harvests, just by telling their

1424
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,760
Speaker 1: hunters through education, no and no legal point restriction. Now

1425
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 1: tell me if this is correct or or add to

1426
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: this however you might want to met. But would you

1427
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:54,160
Speaker 1: say that it is true that cdm A is a

1428
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: strong advocate of educating on the benefits of having bucks

1429
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: across all age classes. But it is certainly still in

1430
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: support of and encouraged, you know, hunters to make whatever

1431
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: decision they might want. If you want to shoot a

1432
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 1: your inn aff buck, if whether you're four to or four,

1433
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: and if that makes you happy, go for it like you.

1434
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: I don't think i've ever seen you guys say you

1435
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,799
Speaker 1: can't shoot your inn aff hole bucks. I think sometimes

1436
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: you get these people There are individuals who do that,

1437
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 1: and I think kind of bastardize your message many times,

1438
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: but that's not what you guys ever manned it right.

1439
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,920
Speaker 1: There's there's been plenty of cases where we've opposed aniler

1440
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: restrictions because they just they either didn't make biological sense

1441
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,560
Speaker 1: or the hunters didn't support it, So I no, I

1442
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: just won't do it there. I've actually spoken in front

1443
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,679
Speaker 1: of commissions in places and said, we do not support this. Really, yeah,

1444
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: you guys much more. You much rather goal with like

1445
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:49,600
Speaker 1: education and voluntary Absolutely in Layman's Army, who are we

1446
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: to tell anybody what to do with their hunting lis

1447
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: especially in Pennsylvania. I mean, we we have antler restrictions,

1448
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: but we could almost see ourselves getting behind with the

1449
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 1: hunter recruitment decline and such. You know, of time is

1450
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: a big issue. We're not allowed to hunt on Sundays

1451
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 1: there you have you know, as you put it, mugs

1452
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 1: working six days a week. They can't buy a hunting

1453
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: license if you can hunt Sunday, I mean, or if

1454
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: you get one day a week. It's pretty tough to

1455
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 1: tell somebody, hey, don't shoot that deer when you go out.

1456
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:14,680
Speaker 1: You know, can you imagine when you were a kid

1457
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 1: saying that to your camp. You know in Michigan, definitely

1458
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't have flowne. Do you guys push against blue laws? Oh? Yeah,

1459
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: who don't somebody out there? It blows my mind, man.

1460
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 1: I I recently heard a rumor that, um that when

1461
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: you actually saf like, who in the world would support

1462
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 1: a Sunday hunting band. I heard a rumor that like

1463
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: a lot of outfitters don't A lot of outfitters support

1464
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 1: Sunday hunting bands. And someone's like, because the reason I

1465
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 1: think it's not true is because they're like, oh, we'd

1466
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:55,640
Speaker 1: have to work on Sundays. One decides this or not.

1467
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 1: It's been an ongoing battle in Pennsylvania and I just

1468
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 1: did a newspaper art a couple of weeks ago or

1469
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:04,560
Speaker 1: an interview. UM, I've debated the head of you know,

1470
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 1: some of the people from the Farm Bureau in Harrisburg.

1471
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: They have a big stronghold on that, and I mean

1472
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: I've heard every reason under the sun. They don't want

1473
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:13,519
Speaker 1: to have people bother them on Sunday like Diday. I've

1474
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 1: heard everything from the deer need to break you know

1475
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 1: shot you know that I want to be able to

1476
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: enjoy my property. I mean just and some of some

1477
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 1: of the arguments I get that, some of them just

1478
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 1: like come on, I mean, and my argument is especially

1479
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,840
Speaker 1: they like to the One of the biggest arguments is

1480
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: the safety factor. And you're literally it comes in Pennsylvania

1481
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 1: with a two week guns season, it comes down to

1482
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,679
Speaker 1: one Sunday, you know, like you're literally only talking about

1483
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 1: one day here. I mean, let's face it, like bow season,

1484
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: Like you know, how many bow hunters are gonna, you know,

1485
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,560
Speaker 1: stumble across the hiker you know what I mean on

1486
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:52,560
Speaker 1: Sunday on the state game lands or what have you.

1487
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: I mean, grouse hunters, how many squirrel hunters on it?

1488
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean from the safety standpoint, I don't think that

1489
01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:59,679
Speaker 1: makes it pretty good. Oh yeah, the argument that Sundays

1490
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 1: are for hike and yeah, Sundays I don't want to shooting.

1491
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I've never participated in civil disobedience. Well no,

1492
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 1: I kind of dicause I used to pick up road

1493
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: kill uh here before it was legal, and I did

1494
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,679
Speaker 1: that with and I did it in a very brazen fashion,

1495
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: hoping to go in front of a judge and be like, yes, yes,

1496
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 1: I found a deer dead on the side of the

1497
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: road and ate it like ye, you knocked me up. Yeah,

1498
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean I could have left it. I could have

1499
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 1: left there to rot, but I ate it. Uh. But

1500
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: I would imagine the Sunday hunting thing. If I lived

1501
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: in a state where you couldn't Sunday hunt, I would

1502
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,560
Speaker 1: try to organize civil disobedience and just to have a

1503
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 1: big Sunday hunt. You know what's interesting, big Sunday squirrel

1504
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: drive me growing up not hunting on Sunday, I mean,

1505
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 1: growing up, and it's just it's just how it is.

1506
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: I've never had the urge to hunt on Sunday. Like, well,

1507
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 1: I mean I go to other states, but I guess

1508
01:22:57,360 --> 01:22:59,519
Speaker 1: in my mind in Pennsylvania, I'm just like, oh, yeah,

1509
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: I can't do it. Years. I have to go to

1510
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: Ohio or West Virginia or you know whatever. So you

1511
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 1: go hunt other people's stuff on Sunday. Yeah, I go

1512
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: to Ohio. Yeah, sure, dude, that's hilarious. If on the

1513
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 1: border and just like get like a hunt, licensing hunt

1514
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: Sunday in the neighboring states, that has to happen. Yeah,

1515
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 1: where I grew up. So I grew up six miles

1516
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 1: from the Maryland border and three miles from the West

1517
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: Virginia border in Pennsylvania. And I just grew up hunting

1518
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,560
Speaker 1: all three states, and I can hunt Sundays and the

1519
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: other two on private land in West Virginia. So um, yeah,

1520
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I'll just hunt in West Virginia though,

1521
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: this is how it was. Yeah, And then do you

1522
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: think it's gonna go away? I don't want. We don't

1523
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 1: need to spend too much time on because they don't

1524
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 1: have any wins. There's no state that you used to

1525
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 1: be able to hunt on Sundays a night you can't. Well,

1526
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: it's further anything, It's further right now than it's ever been,

1527
01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 1: uh to passing. So eventually it will definitely go away.

1528
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 1: But just time will tell. I guess we've only had

1529
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: Sunday hunting. Like in North Carolina probably ten years ago,

1530
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: you couldn't hunt on Sundays, and then they allowed our

1531
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: tree hunting on private land. And now it's to some

1532
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,120
Speaker 1: point I think you're not allowed to rifle hunt on

1533
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 1: public land on Sundays, and you can't hunt within two

1534
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 1: yards of a church or between nine thirty and eleven

1535
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: or something. I mean, it's just absurd because they don't

1536
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: want the fears that people coming out of church. I

1537
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,679
Speaker 1: guess it'll interte people going into church. We'll see something

1538
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 1: a buck, You'll be like, never mind, I was gonna

1539
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 1: worship this morning. They grab their going to run off

1540
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,640
Speaker 1: into the woods. Wasn't different than you can't buy a

1541
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: drink between before noon or one. I mean, we have

1542
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:32,800
Speaker 1: all those kind of blue laws in the South. And

1543
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,439
Speaker 1: do you think it sends people to church because you

1544
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 1: can't buy booze? But there's this historic perception of alcohol

1545
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 1: being like not a great thing right for a lot

1546
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 1: of people. But those same people, I would think, would

1547
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: view hunting as like a pretty wholesome activity. And let

1548
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:53,800
Speaker 1: me get here's an interesting fact. You're like, in Pennsylvania,

1549
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 1: you can't hunt deer on Sundays, but you can hunt

1550
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: crows and coyotes. You're only a lot because yeah, you're

1551
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 1: allowed to hunt crows on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday only,

1552
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: So you can't hunt crows Monday through Thursday. Coyotes are

1553
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: open game man seven days a week. Day later dark

1554
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: it's it's free rain on them babies. But dear no,

1555
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 1: we can't do it. It's just because you need a break,

1556
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 1: and you needn't break. You gotta take a Sunday. Off said,

1557
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: there was a couple of arguments that you could sort

1558
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:23,599
Speaker 1: of relate to. What are the couple of the ones

1559
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 1: where you go, yeah, I can kind of get that.

1560
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: So you know, when I the somebody that opens their

1561
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 1: ground up to the public, you know some you know, hey,

1562
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 1: I just Sunday a farmer maybe, you know, just give

1563
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 1: me a day to feed the cows and get the

1564
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 1: horses moved around, etcetera, etcetera. I can almost see that.

1565
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,679
Speaker 1: My argument against that is and your it's your property.

1566
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 1: Say that's where That's where I don't understand it, because

1567
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: the argument that guides don't wanna it's like you still

1568
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 1: have some level of autonomy in life. I mean, you

1569
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,799
Speaker 1: make decisions, right. I used to. I used to trap

1570
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 1: fox uh uh Mennonite property and he wouldn't let you

1571
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: check on Saturday because they kept the historic Sabbath of sundown.

1572
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 1: I think it's sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Could be

1573
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: getting something's wrong, but it was it was not Sunday.

1574
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:19,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't Sunday. It was like they I can't remember

1575
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: what I wish I could I feel like they're Mennite. Um.

1576
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: But anyhow, sundown Friday, sundown Saturday was their sabbath. He

1577
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to check in traps on

1578
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 1: my property during the sabbath, which meant on Friday you

1579
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 1: have to go poll because you couldn't know. You don't

1580
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 1: want to leave them out, you have to go pull

1581
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,679
Speaker 1: and then reset on Sunday. And no, there's no loss

1582
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 1: saying this was just the guy was pretty clear about

1583
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,560
Speaker 1: what he wanted going down on his property, right, And

1584
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I didn't like try to debate him

1585
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 1: on it, right. Yeah, Well if you look at him

1586
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 1: my way, you know he's just like cool man, got it.

1587
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 1: I won't be all here, you know, I won't be

1588
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 1: on here on Saturday. Uh. Back to point restrictions, what

1589
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,599
Speaker 1: are the cons like, Like, Okay, you solved the question

1590
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: that you guys like categorically think that every state should

1591
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 1: adopt a mandatory point restriction. That's not true. No, And

1592
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 1: in fact, if you look at the data that we

1593
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 1: talked about in the eighties, there was a lot of

1594
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:17,240
Speaker 1: states that had and imbalanced in buck age structure, but

1595
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist today. A lot of states have uh

1596
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 1: deer that represent two and three and older in their

1597
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 1: naturally occurring deer populations, they're in the harvest, So that's

1598
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 1: that's There are definitely small sections of states um and

1599
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: probably even in some cases whole states where a significant

1600
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: part of the harvest is still young bucks. But that's

1601
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 1: not the cases it was, you know, twenty five years ago,

1602
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:46,440
Speaker 1: so we don't need to hunters have adopted this philosophy.

1603
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: One of the things that that also shows where people

1604
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 1: are really thinking about quality deer management differently is the

1605
01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 1: general acceptance of shooting dose. It took until was the

1606
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: first or nationally the hunters in the United States killed

1607
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,599
Speaker 1: more doze than bucks. So that was the first time

1608
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 1: in well talking about what that's a vest because that's

1609
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:13,760
Speaker 1: a defendable we laugh about it now, but but talk

1610
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:17,560
Speaker 1: about what drove that reluctance to kill those What was

1611
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: the the concept that you don't shoot those because that's

1612
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: what we were taught growing up because there weren't because

1613
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,479
Speaker 1: there weren't any deer. But at the point of the

1614
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 1: mid seventies and going into the eighties, deer were almost

1615
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 1: at the highest point they've ever been, and definitely by

1616
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: later in that decade it was happening. Yeah, but I

1617
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: guess the point being, once upon a time that mentality

1618
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 1: was necessary. It was yeah, like when you had you could.

1619
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,519
Speaker 1: I was looking at this chart that showed like what

1620
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 1: counties and again Michigan, I just know because my home state,

1621
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: but showing like every it was sort of like by

1622
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 1: five year increments or something, what counties you were allowed

1623
01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: to hunt deer in. Going back into the early I

1624
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: mean there were times when you there were times when

1625
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 1: you were hunting just one little dinky corner in Michigan

1626
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 1: and the rest of it wasn't even open to deer hunting.

1627
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 1: And so that drove this thing like if we're gonna

1628
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: if we want to hunt deer at all, um, we

1629
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:16,560
Speaker 1: need to grow dear population. So you can imagine you

1630
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 1: you'd sort of engender this great reluctance on the part

1631
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: of hunters. Two want to grow the hurt and now

1632
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: we act like it's like, oh, they're so not that

1633
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 1: not that you act this way, but but people perceive

1634
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:31,799
Speaker 1: it like that it was just this macho that everyone

1635
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,040
Speaker 1: was too macho to kill dose. But it was a

1636
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: really important thing at a time to not kill those

1637
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,200
Speaker 1: because there was no deer. So to that end, quality

1638
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 1: deer management and really any game management is should be

1639
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:47,919
Speaker 1: site specific. It should be at the property or management

1640
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: unit scale where you're looking at the popular population and temporally,

1641
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: what does it look like right now and where do

1642
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: we need to go. That's what a management plan is.

1643
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 1: When some state writes a statewide anment plan, or an

1644
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 1: individual property owner gets somebody to come in either through

1645
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 1: federal assistance or has a private consultant right them in

1646
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 1: management plan, they should say, Okay, here's the current inventory,

1647
01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:14,719
Speaker 1: this is what it looks like, the habitat the deer,

1648
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:17,560
Speaker 1: whatever what other animal it is, and our goal is

1649
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:21,719
Speaker 1: to get to be point be on the path within

1650
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,040
Speaker 1: three to five years. But then you have to reevaluate

1651
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 1: not only annually, but at the end of that time

1652
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: period and say, okay, what direction do we go now.

1653
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:33,679
Speaker 1: It's it's like accepting, uh, you know, you can't throw

1654
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:35,600
Speaker 1: the baby out with the bathwater in terms of just

1655
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:37,639
Speaker 1: because it was good once, it's always going to be good.

1656
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: And QDM has been definitely thrown into that bathwater of

1657
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,400
Speaker 1: we're always going to tell people to shoot older bucks

1658
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 1: and not shoot younger bucks. That's not the case, or

1659
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,720
Speaker 1: that you always have to shoot dose. That's not the case.

1660
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 1: It's really site specific and time specific. So you could

1661
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:55,800
Speaker 1: picture coming into a place and seeing a situation where

1662
01:30:55,840 --> 01:31:00,120
Speaker 1: you're like, man, don't shoot any dose because so I

1663
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,160
Speaker 1: where I live in New York, I'm on the kind

1664
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 1: of the foothills of the Adirondacks, and there are definitely

1665
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 1: places north of me that have low deer density um

1666
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 1: their parts across many places in the country where the

1667
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:17,240
Speaker 1: productivity of the land is not quite that good, and

1668
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,479
Speaker 1: you would not need to shoot any dose because it

1669
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: just doesn't sustain it. Broad broad pieces of northern New England,

1670
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:29,120
Speaker 1: the White Mountain National Forest, Green Mountains, Adirondacks, those places,

1671
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 1: there's in some places no dose season. It's not necessary,

1672
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 1: and people would like to see hunters would like to

1673
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 1: see more of them on the ground. Yeah, I mean,

1674
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 1: so in those cases, where would we go and talk

1675
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: to a hunter about adopting QDM. In those cases, they

1676
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: might want to improve the habitat and say, Okay, maybe

1677
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: you can build the dear population up a little bit um.

1678
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,679
Speaker 1: That would be a way to abstain, abstain from shooting dose,

1679
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 1: because that's what's needed. What's your what's cute m as

1680
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 1: relationship with the agricultural community, and um, I hear about this,

1681
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:10,360
Speaker 1: but I was gonna say that the automobile insurance industry,

1682
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 1: But I've had other people in your world, like in

1683
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 1: your community, say that the automobile insurance industry isn't really

1684
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 1: a main driver and trying to lower deer numbers like that.

1685
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: That's kind of a fiction, which I've always been told

1686
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 1: was true. They're like, they don't want to pay out

1687
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 1: so many claims on people crashing into deer, and so

1688
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 1: that they're one of the voices for that we need

1689
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:33,880
Speaker 1: to kill deer, kill deer, kill deer, and then the

1690
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: agricultural community. It's indisputable. I don't mean to low them

1691
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 1: all together, but there are components of the egg community

1692
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: that generally advocate, Um, we would like to see lower

1693
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,880
Speaker 1: deer numbers and have in lessen crop damage because we

1694
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,640
Speaker 1: lose so much food to uh well, in terms of

1695
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 1: the the insurance companies, that's generally that is a falsehood,

1696
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Like you don't get calls from them every day being

1697
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:02,000
Speaker 1: like by god, no, yeah, yeah, I mean, oh you

1698
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 1: hear that. I grew up hearing that. But I've had

1699
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:05,639
Speaker 1: a lot of people say like they're just not big

1700
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,479
Speaker 1: players and deer management. Like I always say, like I

1701
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 1: just want to be part of that meeting where somebody's

1702
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,840
Speaker 1: writing the check and handing it over like I hate

1703
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 1: you more deer this year. Yeah, here's a hundred thousand dollars.

1704
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 1: So you've really never heard of it never. I mean

1705
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:21,439
Speaker 1: I've heard those stories. I never heard any like substantiation that,

1706
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 1: like all states calling up the calling up the Fishing

1707
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 1: Game Agency being like you go, boys, better kill all

1708
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: the deer. I mean, put it this way. I've heard

1709
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 1: it for probably twenty five plus years. I've heard that story,

1710
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 1: and I've never heard of a case where like it's

1711
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: never been substantiated, like nobody's I would feel like by

1712
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,080
Speaker 1: this point, thirty years down the road, somebody would be like,

1713
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna blow the whistle on this.

1714
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: This is what I called me and Matt. You have

1715
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,799
Speaker 1: insight and other people than the ORG, like kept have workforce,

1716
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:54,600
Speaker 1: state game agencies. Right, so you've seen the inside the

1717
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: belly of the beast and that's just not happening, right. No, Yeah,

1718
01:33:57,760 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 1: that's true. You guys being paid off and you try

1719
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: to cover it. Up. That's funny parallel the I'm trip

1720
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:05,680
Speaker 1: will get into chronic wasting disease a little bit, but

1721
01:34:05,760 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 1: the thought that states are making money off of chronic

1722
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,760
Speaker 1: wasting diseases to make money off you can't. But that

1723
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: is a misconception that people say that they can't. They're

1724
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: they're spending money on it. But the same thing with

1725
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: the insurance companies is how are you making money off

1726
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,200
Speaker 1: of that? I mean it just making money on cw D.

1727
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 1: So that the theory there what some of these I

1728
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: like it, I just can't. I'm not tracking. They're saying

1729
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 1: that this like they're getting all this funding appropriated to

1730
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 1: cw t D management. That's lining the pockets are keeping

1731
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:45,840
Speaker 1: these guys in. Yeah, c w D turns into new pool. Yeah,

1732
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: I know, I saw them fishing game boys, got them

1733
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:52,719
Speaker 1: new Tronic. We got a bunch of R pod campers.

1734
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:56,800
Speaker 1: There's been recently new R pods. There's been a couple

1735
01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,519
Speaker 1: of recent bills trying to get new funding appropriated research stuff,

1736
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 1: which seems like a universal Yeah, absolutely, like let's support that.

1737
01:35:04,439 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 1: Even if you don't think cw is a big deal,

1738
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:09,320
Speaker 1: even for those people, you should want that funding because

1739
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 1: it's going to help answer the questions regardless, though, those

1740
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: guys I'm seeing people post about online like yeah, of

1741
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: course they're trying to get more money. That's how all

1742
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: these guys are getting rich, just more and more money

1743
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 1: put into it. And it's it's it's crazy. It's just

1744
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:25,679
Speaker 1: the general population of of hunters themselves, and I feel

1745
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:27,600
Speaker 1: like they seek us out on were somewhere. But my

1746
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: two favorite conspiracy type theories are rattlesnakes being dropped out

1747
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,560
Speaker 1: of helicopters to eat the turkey eggs. I hear that

1748
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:37,640
Speaker 1: one was, Yeah, what is that one? I don't I

1749
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,799
Speaker 1: don't know, and they don't because they don't like turkeys.

1750
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:41,720
Speaker 1: They don't like turkeys, I guess, yeah. And then so

1751
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:44,920
Speaker 1: you get a bunch of rattlers and load them into

1752
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: a chopper and throw them out that they'll eat the eggs.

1753
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,479
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I haven't. I'm sorry I

1754
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:56,759
Speaker 1: have heard it, but I love like how round about

1755
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 1: like if you task someone and you're like, dude, um,

1756
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: I need you to lower for whatever the hell reason,

1757
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I need to lower turkey numbers. And this guy goes

1758
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:08,600
Speaker 1: and he like he's like, hey, let me formulate a

1759
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: pant plan. This is when he comes up and it's like, Okay,

1760
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,680
Speaker 1: here's here's how I'm spending the money. You got the

1761
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,439
Speaker 1: you know what a rattlesnake is, right, So like it's

1762
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 1: so funny like with these things like how bad. You know,

1763
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:25,760
Speaker 1: he really didn't come to it. If you really did

1764
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:28,640
Speaker 1: come to a group of wildlife professionals and said I

1765
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: want to lower turkey numbers, I just don't think that

1766
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 1: they would that would be the proposal, right, I feel

1767
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:40,080
Speaker 1: it would be like a different plan. Yeah. And then

1768
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,519
Speaker 1: the next one is the introduction of coyotes, and I

1769
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:44,680
Speaker 1: just I get that one a ton and I just

1770
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,960
Speaker 1: got My favorite was this past fall, a guy cornered

1771
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: me in a gas station like four thirty in the morning.

1772
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I was because he had a QTM shirt. No, he

1773
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 1: didn't know me from around town. I was going bow

1774
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: hunting and he was going bow hunting. And he actually

1775
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:00,920
Speaker 1: worked in the coal mine in Southwest in Pennsylvania, and

1776
01:37:01,120 --> 01:37:04,760
Speaker 1: in their break room, one of his buddies knew a guy.

1777
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 1: This is how it went. His buddy knew a guy

1778
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 1: who was at the same gas station and we were

1779
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,640
Speaker 1: getting coffee. You know, three weeks prior and there was

1780
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 1: a guy coming from Missouri with a trailer load of coyotes,

1781
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:20,840
Speaker 1: said he was working for the Game Commission, and and

1782
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, come on, you know that type of dealing.

1783
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:25,720
Speaker 1: He's like, he has never lied to me before, why

1784
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:27,960
Speaker 1: would he start now? You know that that type of deal.

1785
01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you don't even Like, I'm just like,

1786
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: I can't even argue that. Okay, Like what am I gonna?

1787
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, their mind's made up. But I've heard and

1788
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:41,040
Speaker 1: he saw that they were just real quick, uh, bringing

1789
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 1: in coyotes to kill all the deer. Presumably yes, with

1790
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: what goal? I don't know. That's another thing. I mean,

1791
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: if you if you know anything about business, and you

1792
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:54,400
Speaker 1: know the amount of money that I'm talking Pennsylvania that

1793
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 1: the white tail deer bring to the bottom line, the

1794
01:37:57,080 --> 01:37:59,080
Speaker 1: last thing you do is want less of them from

1795
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 1: a state agency endpoint. But even when you you make

1796
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:05,720
Speaker 1: that logic, it's like, nope, nope, no, no, the state

1797
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:08,000
Speaker 1: agencies are just a bunch of greenis and they don't

1798
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: want anybody hunting anymore. That you know, I can see

1799
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 1: that like line of thinking. It was like our famous

1800
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:18,920
Speaker 1: one that we talked about too much. But it was

1801
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:24,559
Speaker 1: the remember the one that the Clintons Clinton the Clintons that, uh,

1802
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 1: I would be covered it so off. I'll say it

1803
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 1: again that the Clintons wanted wolves back because they'd kill

1804
01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: all the animals and no one would have any occasion

1805
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:41,679
Speaker 1: to hunt anymore. Therefore it would destroy the firearm industry,

1806
01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: which is another roundabout play. But yeah, conspiracy theories are fun.

1807
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 1: Man Um, we should get onto something that's more serviceable. Uh. Okay,

1808
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 1: I got one question that I do want to talk

1809
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 1: about c w D for a while. But here's my question,

1810
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:59,080
Speaker 1: and you kind of already answered it, because you do

1811
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 1: feel an ovel gay and to like, as an organization,

1812
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: you feel an obligation to help people achieve what they want, right,

1813
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:12,600
Speaker 1: because you want hunters to be engaged, involved, happy. But

1814
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:16,560
Speaker 1: let's say you knew some thing. Okay, let's say you

1815
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:22,439
Speaker 1: knew some truth that, uh, that you knew some truth

1816
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:25,719
Speaker 1: where the best thing for deer like that the really

1817
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 1: the best thing for dear was in opposition to what

1818
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: hunters wanted. And it was turned out that some unforeseen

1819
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:41,639
Speaker 1: thing like big box were detrimental to wildlife in America

1820
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I don't know what it is. How

1821
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: would you weigh that out? That would be a difficult

1822
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:52,760
Speaker 1: conversation because we need hunters. Yeah, I mean, we will

1823
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 1: always stand behind the science, and ultimately would we would

1824
01:39:57,280 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 1: end up trying to educate hunters about what? But but

1825
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:02,600
Speaker 1: I don't, Okay, that's that's because what does that I

1826
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: I say that all the time too, But like, what

1827
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,120
Speaker 1: does that mean to you? To stand behind the science?

1828
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,520
Speaker 1: Look at the preponderance of evidence that's out there, evidence

1829
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:13,719
Speaker 1: based science that says what is beneficial to the environment,

1830
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 1: what is what is good for dear? Yeah, that's that's

1831
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at. So let's say there what that's

1832
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 1: what That's what informs my my hypothetical. And it's a

1833
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:24,920
Speaker 1: goofy hypothetical example though called this it's CWD related. But

1834
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:29,679
Speaker 1: the one of the that's this is I'm doing SHREWD hosting.

1835
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 1: So because I'm getting into jump in the gun, go

1836
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,080
Speaker 1: ahead and do it for me. So, so, some people

1837
01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:38,880
Speaker 1: are saying that you should not allow younger age class

1838
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:42,679
Speaker 1: bucks to advance to older age classes in CDWD management zones,

1839
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: theory being that that would be detrimental and lead to

1840
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 1: the spread further, etcetera, etcetera. So how do you, as

1841
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: q d M A tackle that? So but here, yeah,

1842
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,519
Speaker 1: great job. But but earlier what was interesting is how

1843
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:01,639
Speaker 1: they decrease their home range, which is yeah, great point

1844
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:06,160
Speaker 1: because my body this is his burning question, his burning issues,

1845
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: he feels. And he used to he used to he

1846
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:12,720
Speaker 1: used to practice QDM you personally, I think so he

1847
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: used to practice QDM, but now he's concerned about where

1848
01:41:16,120 --> 01:41:22,479
Speaker 1: they have prevalence. I think it's some's prevalence, which is

1849
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:26,240
Speaker 1: disturbing to him. And so now his like thing, like

1850
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 1: his whole focus has shifted, like the way he sort

1851
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 1: of views everything. And he was an early adopter and

1852
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:35,599
Speaker 1: like really big into q d M. Yeah, I don't

1853
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:38,360
Speaker 1: know he I don't know if he used it, if

1854
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:40,879
Speaker 1: he used that term. Yeah, he know. He's got QDM

1855
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:44,160
Speaker 1: posters handle over his house and ship. But anyhow, his

1856
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: whole focus is shift now where he thinks the primary

1857
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 1: concern right now is stopping CWD spread. So and he

1858
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 1: feels that that a lot of the QDM practices are

1859
01:41:55,640 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: anathema to slowing the spread of c w D because

1860
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 1: bucks have higher prevalence and travel more good word by

1861
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:17,720
Speaker 1: the way, um okay, that means against so thanks for that. So, uh,

1862
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:23,200
Speaker 1: Mark's asking about that specific thing. We q m A

1863
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,759
Speaker 1: does not employ anybody that's a c w D expert expert,

1864
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,080
Speaker 1: but we are not. It seems it could be like

1865
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:32,200
Speaker 1: the high priority. I mean, I went to school for wildlife.

1866
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:34,479
Speaker 1: I'm not a disease expert. You guys don't have like

1867
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 1: an epidemia like we We we align with the people

1868
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 1: that are the experts that we try to bring that,

1869
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:46,920
Speaker 1: whether they work for you or not. In your dialogue. Absolutely,

1870
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:49,560
Speaker 1: and in fact, the person you're talking about, we're in

1871
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:53,840
Speaker 1: dialogue with him. We're on an advisory committee with about

1872
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 1: thirty other people and trying to push the c w

1873
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:00,599
Speaker 1: D message across many different platforms. You know, he's staying

1874
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:03,720
Speaker 1: at my house right now. He should have been here, Yeah,

1875
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 1: he's fishing. He's on a fishing vacation. Should be fishing. Yeah, geez,

1876
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 1: he would have been good too. Absolutely away. Anyway, he's

1877
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 1: actually sussing out my garden project when I left him.

1878
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 1: But go on, Okay, So Mark Mark's question about that

1879
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:23,160
Speaker 1: point of c w D. There is a flead the

1880
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 1: Association Fish and Wildlife Agencies put put out in late

1881
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:30,840
Speaker 1: eighteen Best Management practices that covers everything from surveillance to

1882
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:35,760
Speaker 1: UH monitoring to management, um, all of these different strategies.

1883
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,720
Speaker 1: We are in agreement with all of those things, and

1884
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,760
Speaker 1: even to the point of pushing deer into older age

1885
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 1: classes to a point. Some of the science is a

1886
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:50,200
Speaker 1: little quirky behind that I kind of got lost from it. Okay,

1887
01:43:50,280 --> 01:43:53,920
Speaker 1: back up, Association Fish and Wildlife Agencies put out of

1888
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 1: best management practices for all states and that's like all

1889
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:01,800
Speaker 1: the fifty state all the fifty state game management agencies. Yes,

1890
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:07,240
Speaker 1: they have a they generated best practices for themselves for yeah,

1891
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:10,920
Speaker 1: for the agencies on how to communicate to the public

1892
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,920
Speaker 1: um how to best And it's a living document. It's

1893
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 1: changing all the time. It's a really good document. Um

1894
01:44:17,920 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 1: how it covers the whole gamut of game management of Okay,

1895
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 1: so I think that the CWD is a part of

1896
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 1: this broader package. It's it's a cw D specific doctum

1897
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:31,560
Speaker 1: understand and uh, you know, looking at what are the

1898
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:35,519
Speaker 1: biggest risks, where is c w D spreading the fastest,

1899
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 1: We're all in general agreement that is, uh, moving live

1900
01:44:39,160 --> 01:44:42,320
Speaker 1: deer and moving dear parts. Like if you're a hunter

1901
01:44:43,080 --> 01:44:44,519
Speaker 1: and you're shoot a deer that is in a c

1902
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,599
Speaker 1: w D area and moving the entire carcass either home

1903
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:51,880
Speaker 1: or you're crossing boundaries where it doesn't exist. Has has

1904
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:56,000
Speaker 1: that's happened? For sure? Absolutely? Yeah? And I mean that

1905
01:44:56,240 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 1: they they've traced they've traced the movement to carcasses. I know,

1906
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:04,439
Speaker 1: their trace movement to to moving captive servants. They have

1907
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 1: done that. I thought you meant. Has legis have they

1908
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: have actually ever found somebody moving a dead deer? You

1909
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:11,519
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Has there ever? Has there ever

1910
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:15,080
Speaker 1: been a c w D outbreak that was somehow traceable

1911
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:20,439
Speaker 1: to the movement of a deer's carcass. There's a there's

1912
01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:23,000
Speaker 1: an assumption in one place. I don't know if it's

1913
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 1: been proven, but you're not in your head, Hank, do

1914
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 1: you know? No, I don't know if it's proven, but

1915
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:30,840
Speaker 1: it's definitely assumed that some you know, taxidermist had you know,

1916
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:33,160
Speaker 1: thrown out some dear parts that have been brought to

1917
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:37,120
Speaker 1: them that they think created you know, they created an outbreak. Yeah. Okay,

1918
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:41,840
Speaker 1: So those are the biggest, the biggest factors that we

1919
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: see thought more so than just dear moving. Yeah, definitely,

1920
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:51,479
Speaker 1: more so because dear don't they do disperse. We needn't

1921
01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:55,040
Speaker 1: talk about dispersal, but at younger ages, dear will leave

1922
01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 1: where they're born and set up a new home range.

1923
01:45:57,800 --> 01:46:00,559
Speaker 1: That has been a concern with c w D UH

1924
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:03,360
Speaker 1: and from a lot of folks are thinking about when

1925
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,599
Speaker 1: deer dispersed, they're carrying that with them. You can't stop dispersal.

1926
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 1: It's natural, um and one of the one of the

1927
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,919
Speaker 1: thoughts on antler restrictions and that thought process of removing

1928
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:17,080
Speaker 1: antler restrictions in cases where dear dispersal might be moving

1929
01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 1: the disease faster UM, that can be arguing. It's confusing

1930
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:23,479
Speaker 1: for hunters because some states have remove them in some

1931
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:27,080
Speaker 1: say states don't. Uh. Pennsylvania is a good example where

1932
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:29,240
Speaker 1: they didn't remove antler restrictions. They got c w D

1933
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:31,719
Speaker 1: and said that's not going to solve the problem because

1934
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:34,519
Speaker 1: the majority, in fact, almost all of dear dispersal occurs

1935
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 1: before the deer is old or not old enough to

1936
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:41,679
Speaker 1: actually carry the disease. So deer moving from when they're

1937
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:46,840
Speaker 1: between eight eighteen months or or so of age and

1938
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 1: twenty months of age, they're moving to a new new place. UM. Anyway,

1939
01:46:53,320 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 1: dispersal is one of those factors that has looked at UM,

1940
01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 1: but also dear movement outside of their home range. Yes,

1941
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 1: we talk talked about their home rerange shrinking as they

1942
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:04,559
Speaker 1: get older, but deer also do something called excursions. That's

1943
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 1: probably the bigger culprit. Where deer will leave where they're

1944
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 1: where they are in the fall and go out on

1945
01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:13,440
Speaker 1: these one to three mile excursions looking for breeding opportunities,

1946
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 1: and then they return that may also be moving the

1947
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:21,759
Speaker 1: disease are our thought process. Originally, some of the original

1948
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 1: research that came out was formed by models UM. One

1949
01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:31,040
Speaker 1: of the papers pop pav at all looked at disease

1950
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 1: transmission of chronic wasting disease through bucks and had some

1951
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:39,880
Speaker 1: pretty quirky assumptions in there. They assume that of all

1952
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 1: bucks would be harvested annually UM to be able to

1953
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:45,120
Speaker 1: to limit that. That was one of those things that

1954
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 1: we didn't think was quite realistic, So some of the

1955
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 1: assumptions were a little bit quirky. But originally we set

1956
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:54,280
Speaker 1: a rule and and kind of our policy on managing

1957
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:56,840
Speaker 1: hunters and managing c w D in those areas where

1958
01:47:56,880 --> 01:48:00,880
Speaker 1: c w D exists is that don't push deer to

1959
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 1: advanced age structures of like four or older, which would

1960
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:08,599
Speaker 1: be trophy management, but continue harvesting deer at least at

1961
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:12,880
Speaker 1: two or three UM and excel that harvest at that point.

1962
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:16,640
Speaker 1: I have heard some cases though, in the West in

1963
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:20,160
Speaker 1: Colorado where they're showing evidence of some of the management

1964
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 1: units where some of that has been shown to UM

1965
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 1: be the case where in places where they're managing for

1966
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:33,120
Speaker 1: mature bucks they are seeing a higher prevalence rate existing. Yeah,

1967
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:35,800
Speaker 1: so that is starting to show up. And we at

1968
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:37,799
Speaker 1: q d m A we do base it on science,

1969
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 1: and we continually review our policies, and we're going through

1970
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:44,760
Speaker 1: a pretty thorough review right now. It wouldn't shock me

1971
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:47,479
Speaker 1: if at some point we have to revamp that. And

1972
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:50,560
Speaker 1: in places where c w D exists, we say, you

1973
01:48:50,600 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 1: know what, starts shooting bucks at any age instead of

1974
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 1: uh waiting until they're two or older. Our contention there

1975
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 1: has always been you need hunters to be able to

1976
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:05,920
Speaker 1: manage the gear, and in places where we don't have

1977
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:08,719
Speaker 1: good science on it, a lot of this was based

1978
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,839
Speaker 1: on modeling, not on real world scenarios. Before the Colorado

1979
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:16,040
Speaker 1: examples popped up, we were talking a bit two hunters

1980
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 1: and saying, if we don't have hunters out there regulating

1981
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 1: the dear populations, we're kind of at a loss. You

1982
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: can look at Wisconsin as a perfect example of that,

1983
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:26,920
Speaker 1: where they lost a lot of hunter support and with

1984
01:49:27,080 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 1: c w D management and a lot of people backed off,

1985
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:32,200
Speaker 1: and now the prevalence rate in that state has hit

1986
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:36,920
Speaker 1: In some places, the disease actually makes a UH. It's

1987
01:49:37,080 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 1: it's interesting somewhere around one percent prevalence, the disease goes

1988
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:45,559
Speaker 1: from a density dependent disease to a frequency dependent, which

1989
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 1: in essence means it doesn't matter how many animals are

1990
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:50,840
Speaker 1: on the landscape. It's the prevalence rate that really is

1991
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 1: impactful of how quickly it spreads. Explain that. So in

1992
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 1: frequency dependent UH diseases, instead of trying to regulate dear

1993
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 1: population numbers, you need to start monitoring how much UH

1994
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 1: interaction those deer have with each other through movements, through

1995
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:09,559
Speaker 1: congregations and other things. So in those places where they're

1996
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:13,040
Speaker 1: outlawing things like mineral blocks, feed, those all make a

1997
01:50:13,120 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 1: lot of sense. They do they do, yes, because in

1998
01:50:15,680 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 1: those places, that's where they're concentrating deer and they're going

1999
01:50:19,240 --> 01:50:24,120
Speaker 1: to be dispersing the misfolded proteins are called prions into

2000
01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:26,400
Speaker 1: the environment, and other deer are going to contract that.

2001
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:30,080
Speaker 1: So we're fully supportive of that. UM. You know, uh

2002
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,439
Speaker 1: Ted Nujam makes the point that you can't stop dear

2003
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:39,200
Speaker 1: from All they do is walk around and smell each other,

2004
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:44,600
Speaker 1: rub noses, roll up against each other, that they're gregarious,

2005
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:48,000
Speaker 1: and that you can't you're not gonna prevent deer under

2006
01:50:48,040 --> 01:50:51,080
Speaker 1: your contact. He like describes him as the licking nous

2007
01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:55,720
Speaker 1: rubbing these things on the planet. Wouldn't you say, though,

2008
01:50:55,760 --> 01:50:59,040
Speaker 1: that mineral licks or baiting stations, that is just a

2009
01:50:59,160 --> 01:51:03,160
Speaker 1: disproportionately high concentration of that kind of stuff. So yes,

2010
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:05,280
Speaker 1: there's gonna be interaction, there's gonna be contact, but if

2011
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 1: we can at least minimize those super high concentration zones,

2012
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:10,880
Speaker 1: we're not going to get rid of it all. But

2013
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:15,240
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's a three better situation, and we should

2014
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:17,719
Speaker 1: take a three percent better situation. Yeah, and that's probably

2015
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:20,600
Speaker 1: going back to the discussion about UM telling hunters to

2016
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:24,200
Speaker 1: shoot young bucks or not in those cases. You know,

2017
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:26,320
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of hunters have adopted the

2018
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:30,200
Speaker 1: qdm UH concept, and really, what folks are saying is

2019
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:33,080
Speaker 1: if we can educate the masses like we did, you know,

2020
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:35,160
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, maybe we can push people to

2021
01:51:35,200 --> 01:51:38,600
Speaker 1: shooting young bucks again to reduce that that disease. But

2022
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 1: it's we've we've looked at it pretty objectively and felt

2023
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:45,960
Speaker 1: like if you don't have hunters managing the population and

2024
01:51:46,120 --> 01:51:49,960
Speaker 1: and luckily, you know, the disease is a very serious thing.

2025
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:54,960
Speaker 1: But luckily it's still in a small, relatively amount of

2026
01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 1: the of the country. What percentage of the country the

2027
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:01,599
Speaker 1: landmass sense has cw I think the last statistic it's

2028
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:03,400
Speaker 1: a little old, but it was about eight percent of

2029
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:07,920
Speaker 1: counties have it in the country. And then how bad

2030
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:12,479
Speaker 1: could it get? It could? Yes, how long do you

2031
01:52:12,479 --> 01:52:16,320
Speaker 1: think it would take? Well, if you look at if

2032
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:18,519
Speaker 1: you look at a snapshot of ten years ago of

2033
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:21,200
Speaker 1: the U. S g S puts out a map of it,

2034
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:25,080
Speaker 1: it has probably expanded three times a size since two

2035
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:27,679
Speaker 1: thousand ten, and where it was in the US and Canada.

2036
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:32,080
Speaker 1: The only thing I care about, um, I only care

2037
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:35,920
Speaker 1: about one I aspect to c w D is the

2038
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:38,680
Speaker 1: risk of human transmission. That is the biggest risk. That's

2039
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:40,720
Speaker 1: really all I care about. If not, it's just like

2040
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 1: another thing that kills deer and the tons of stuff

2041
01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 1: that kills deer. Yeah, except for probably a secondary thing

2042
01:52:48,080 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 1: to really worry about is in those places, um, where

2043
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:54,479
Speaker 1: it gets. Once it gets to about five prevalent, it's

2044
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:57,200
Speaker 1: basically hard to stop. You can control it when it's

2045
01:52:57,240 --> 01:53:00,519
Speaker 1: before that. That's what a lot of state have been shown.

2046
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:03,920
Speaker 1: Comparing Wisconsin Illinois as a standard peat thing, a lot

2047
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:06,760
Speaker 1: of experts look at they've managed the same way. They've

2048
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:08,679
Speaker 1: had it about the or they've they've had it about

2049
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:11,639
Speaker 1: the same amount of time, but their management strategies changed

2050
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 1: at one point and Illinois today continues to have about

2051
01:53:16,439 --> 01:53:19,439
Speaker 1: a one percent prevalence, whereas Wisconsin in some places it's

2052
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:22,879
Speaker 1: fort within the herd. And what do they maybe do differently?

2053
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:30,320
Speaker 1: Uh In in Illinois, they the state has always maintained

2054
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:33,320
Speaker 1: a UH when it's found in a new place, going

2055
01:53:33,400 --> 01:53:36,000
Speaker 1: with a target of removal. A lot of hunters here

2056
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:39,160
Speaker 1: that and they think dear eradication, which is not the case.

2057
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:41,880
Speaker 1: It is you go in and you remove a certain

2058
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:45,720
Speaker 1: percentage of the deer to test and sample to see

2059
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:50,640
Speaker 1: how prevalent it is. UM. Not eliminating all deer, but

2060
01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:53,160
Speaker 1: removing a percentage of it to be able to not

2061
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:56,560
Speaker 1: only surveil and see how many, how how prevalent it is,

2062
01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:58,960
Speaker 1: but also to knock the dear density back so that

2063
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 1: the population is huntable in the future, but also keeping

2064
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:07,080
Speaker 1: prevalence at bay. And since you know, the two thousands,

2065
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:11,320
Speaker 1: Illinois has kept it around one by going into outbreak

2066
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:13,240
Speaker 1: areas and shooting a lot of deer in the beginning,

2067
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:16,280
Speaker 1: not every year, they do it. At the very beginning,

2068
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:18,360
Speaker 1: they shoot a lot of deer. They reduced the deer density,

2069
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:20,720
Speaker 1: and they're trying to maintain that deer density. So there's

2070
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 1: always deer in this and they manage it from the

2071
01:54:22,760 --> 01:54:26,439
Speaker 1: from further on by hunters. So they come in and

2072
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 1: they say, okay, you know whatever, we want to take

2073
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:31,720
Speaker 1: deer out of here, and they do that, and then

2074
01:54:32,080 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 1: the years after that it's just they adjust hunter hunter numbers,

2075
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:40,240
Speaker 1: hunting licenselles, dough allocations and yeah, but it's managed by

2076
01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:42,600
Speaker 1: hunters after that. And they started in oh seven, I believe,

2077
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:46,600
Speaker 1: and it's been at one since then. Yeah, I'm not

2078
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:51,400
Speaker 1: sure the exact year. But in Wisconsin, Uh, they've had

2079
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:54,600
Speaker 1: it a long time and in the areas that have

2080
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:58,680
Speaker 1: it had have had it the longest um they lost

2081
01:54:58,680 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 1: a lot of hunter and landowners to port based on

2082
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:04,200
Speaker 1: going in and trying to remove a lot of deer

2083
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:07,800
Speaker 1: with the help of hunters, um asking hunters to do

2084
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:11,320
Speaker 1: certain things, but they basically lost trust and a lot

2085
01:55:11,360 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 1: of those landowners and a lot of landowners just held

2086
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:16,680
Speaker 1: their hands up and said, you know, we're we're not

2087
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 1: going to allow access anymore. We're not going to shoot

2088
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:22,040
Speaker 1: these deer anymore. And it's started to climb. And then

2089
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:24,120
Speaker 1: there were a lot of political influences in terms of

2090
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:27,360
Speaker 1: how the states started managing it, and in some cases

2091
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:29,920
Speaker 1: has been kind of a let's watch it and monitor

2092
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:32,600
Speaker 1: it and see how how it reacts. And that is

2093
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:36,840
Speaker 1: now really exacerbated and there's a lot of issues. So

2094
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:38,880
Speaker 1: the other thing I would worry about it, besides jumping

2095
01:55:38,920 --> 01:55:43,920
Speaker 1: the species barrier, is in those places where it starts

2096
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:49,760
Speaker 1: reaching above five prevalence, it's always fatal disease. In those cases,

2097
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:54,000
Speaker 1: we will lose dear, Dear populations will decline. It's been

2098
01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:57,360
Speaker 1: shown in Wyoming, Colorado, in Wisconsin that you're once the

2099
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:01,600
Speaker 1: aigles above, it's a rain going downwards, and you're it's

2100
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:04,160
Speaker 1: going to be hard to bring that population back up

2101
01:56:04,240 --> 01:56:06,800
Speaker 1: at any point, and it's always going to be in

2102
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 1: the environment, so whenever a new deer immigrates into that area,

2103
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:15,760
Speaker 1: it will likely contract it and born and all those things. Yeah,

2104
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:20,960
Speaker 1: I know this is beyond your like, this isn't your

2105
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:25,640
Speaker 1: area of expertise, But do you feel like, in ten

2106
01:56:25,760 --> 01:56:29,600
Speaker 1: years or in the people you speak to, is there

2107
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 1: any path towards us knowing for certain what the diseases

2108
01:56:35,440 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 1: capabilities are in terms of that it would jump to cattle,

2109
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:42,800
Speaker 1: that it would jump to sheet, that it would jump

2110
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:45,800
Speaker 1: to humans. Will we ever? Will someone ever say, like,

2111
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:48,720
Speaker 1: you know what, turns out it can't. I don't think

2112
01:56:48,720 --> 01:56:50,760
Speaker 1: anybody will say that because it's it's part of the

2113
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 1: family of t s S and other ts ese that's transmissible.

2114
01:56:56,240 --> 01:57:01,360
Speaker 1: Sponge deform and cephalopathys um have have done that, and

2115
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:07,320
Speaker 1: the more interactions it has with those other animals and humans,

2116
01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:12,120
Speaker 1: every case is a possibility where it could. Uh they

2117
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:17,080
Speaker 1: are um changing over time, disease has changed, so as

2118
01:57:17,120 --> 01:57:20,400
Speaker 1: it grows, it is possible. But right now there's research

2119
01:57:20,440 --> 01:57:23,600
Speaker 1: out of Colorado that says it won't jump to cows

2120
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:27,680
Speaker 1: to livestock um and the best science out there that

2121
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:31,320
Speaker 1: we there's conflicting evidence, but the best science is also

2122
01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 1: saying that the species barriers to humans is pretty strong

2123
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:36,920
Speaker 1: that it likely won't drink. Remember they came out with

2124
01:57:36,960 --> 01:57:40,880
Speaker 1: that some guy comes out of some people out of

2125
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:42,800
Speaker 1: cannon like, oh, we gave it to a monkey the

2126
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:46,600
Speaker 1: macaw thing turn out not being true. Dude. Stories like

2127
01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:51,120
Speaker 1: that pick up a lot more traction than the retraction faster.

2128
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 1: Not even fake news, just like like, that's a study

2129
01:57:55,640 --> 01:57:59,920
Speaker 1: that was done. It wasn't even reviewed and and there's

2130
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:03,120
Speaker 1: a question in terms of how it was performed, and

2131
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:06,720
Speaker 1: the sample size is pretty small. Um. But there's the

2132
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 1: other there's another study that's out of UM the National

2133
01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:13,520
Speaker 1: Health Institute at a Colorado UM that used the same

2134
01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of monkey and used a lot more of them.

2135
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:18,280
Speaker 1: It was about a fifteen year study and they showed

2136
01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:22,680
Speaker 1: that the species barriers are pretty strong. So UM, right

2137
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:24,920
Speaker 1: now the evidence is leading towards it being a strong

2138
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:27,320
Speaker 1: species barrier. But I don't know if anybody would say

2139
01:58:27,320 --> 01:58:31,160
Speaker 1: it's never going to there's another cool um opportunity, and

2140
01:58:31,280 --> 01:58:32,920
Speaker 1: you might know it's I think it's like New Yorker

2141
01:58:33,040 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 1: p a. But somebody like a wild game dinner later

2142
01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:39,120
Speaker 1: realized that they served the CWD positive deer to like

2143
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:41,600
Speaker 1: a group of a couple hundred people. They got like

2144
01:58:41,680 --> 01:58:44,680
Speaker 1: over a hundred people their tracking tracking them for a decade. Now,

2145
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:48,080
Speaker 1: yeah it was New York and there was it was

2146
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:51,320
Speaker 1: like two hundred people and a hundred some submitted, right,

2147
01:58:51,760 --> 01:58:53,600
Speaker 1: they submitted and they've been looking at it for a

2148
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 1: long time and haven't seen it. You know, do you

2149
01:58:56,640 --> 01:59:01,480
Speaker 1: find that the I find that most like this gets

2150
01:59:01,480 --> 01:59:03,800
Speaker 1: a little bit complicated. The other day I was asking Mark,

2151
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,640
Speaker 1: what does the c w D denier nowadays, Because the

2152
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:11,000
Speaker 1: c w D denier a couple of years ago was

2153
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 1: someone who's like it's make believe. But now c w

2154
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:17,800
Speaker 1: D deny or doesn't deny c w D. They're just

2155
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:20,240
Speaker 1: like it's not a big deal. Like you're running out

2156
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:23,080
Speaker 1: of people who you're running out of c w D

2157
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:25,720
Speaker 1: deniers who think it's make believe. Now they're like, oh no,

2158
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:29,360
Speaker 1: it's for real. But don't worry about it. I have

2159
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,480
Speaker 1: found and this like I hope they're right, Like I

2160
01:59:31,560 --> 01:59:34,200
Speaker 1: really root, like I root every day for c w

2161
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:36,560
Speaker 1: D deniers to be right, Like I can't wait for

2162
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 1: them to be right, and that I was wrong and

2163
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:40,560
Speaker 1: I'll be like, I'll be the first guy to go

2164
01:59:40,640 --> 01:59:43,640
Speaker 1: out and you know, buy him a beer. Like I

2165
01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:45,880
Speaker 1: hope they're right. I just don't know that they are,

2166
01:59:46,160 --> 01:59:49,240
Speaker 1: and I can't think they're not. But um, I have

2167
01:59:49,360 --> 01:59:51,600
Speaker 1: found that most of your big like don't worry about

2168
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:55,080
Speaker 1: c w D people tend to be from the deer industry,

2169
01:59:57,160 --> 02:00:00,840
Speaker 1: captive deer industry. Is that what we mean? No, notice

2170
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:06,280
Speaker 1: that like baiting supplements, like, they tend to have a

2171
02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:10,240
Speaker 1: connection interest. Yeah, they tend to have a connection to

2172
02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:17,000
Speaker 1: um selling ship you feed a deer, or move buying

2173
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:19,040
Speaker 1: and selling deer and trade and deer and breeding deer.

2174
02:00:19,120 --> 02:00:21,720
Speaker 1: And is that do you find it that's true? We

2175
02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:25,600
Speaker 1: do find that that's true. And we held a special

2176
02:00:26,680 --> 02:00:28,800
Speaker 1: press conference at a t A this year about c

2177
02:00:29,120 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 1: w D and try to get as many of the

2178
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 1: people in the industry there to to that press conference

2179
02:00:33,440 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 1: to talk about that. And our CEO went on record

2180
02:00:37,480 --> 02:00:40,800
Speaker 1: of saying almost that exact thing at that press conference. Yeah, um,

2181
02:00:41,360 --> 02:00:47,440
Speaker 1: you know, I don't I understand the thought process there

2182
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:51,200
Speaker 1: because what what is hunting I mean, is so tied

2183
02:00:51,320 --> 02:00:55,600
Speaker 1: to nostalgia and tradition and all of these good thoughts

2184
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:57,800
Speaker 1: and good things that have happened to a lot of us.

2185
02:00:58,520 --> 02:01:01,680
Speaker 1: And you you you said the word hope. I hope

2186
02:01:01,720 --> 02:01:04,400
Speaker 1: it's you know, not going to be the case too.

2187
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:08,960
Speaker 1: But the majority of vast majority of people know that

2188
02:01:09,120 --> 02:01:14,160
Speaker 1: it's a serious disease. And we we as hunters, you know,

2189
02:01:14,240 --> 02:01:17,000
Speaker 1: talking to the general listener here, we have to we

2190
02:01:17,120 --> 02:01:18,880
Speaker 1: have to align with that. We have to realize that

2191
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:21,520
Speaker 1: it is serious and we need to do our part. Yeah,

2192
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:24,520
Speaker 1: and the other thing about the like like again, I

2193
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 1: don't even know what a c W deny or is anymore,

2194
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:29,400
Speaker 1: but I would think that anyone would be really happy

2195
02:01:29,400 --> 02:01:32,880
Speaker 1: about funding because if you're convinced that it's not a

2196
02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:35,800
Speaker 1: big deal, I would think that you'd be very eager

2197
02:01:36,360 --> 02:01:40,280
Speaker 1: to see this born out by the academic community exactly

2198
02:01:40,480 --> 02:01:42,480
Speaker 1: that they would look and but they would say that

2199
02:01:42,560 --> 02:01:44,280
Speaker 1: they wanted to be I think they would tell you

2200
02:01:44,320 --> 02:01:45,800
Speaker 1: that they wanted to be a big deal. My new

2201
02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:48,800
Speaker 1: thing was c W D deniers is I wanna get

2202
02:01:48,840 --> 02:01:52,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of positive deer and make and get a

2203
02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:54,480
Speaker 1: dozen or so of them and make a batch of

2204
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:57,800
Speaker 1: burger and I'm even gonna grind some spinal cord into

2205
02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:02,400
Speaker 1: that that blend and make him a patty. I don't

2206
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:05,760
Speaker 1: know fry that patty. And I'm gonna say, once you

2207
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:09,560
Speaker 1: eat that burger, we'll talk. But if you won't eat

2208
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:12,560
Speaker 1: that burger, I don't want to talk. Would be good.

2209
02:02:12,600 --> 02:02:14,840
Speaker 1: It's a good litmus test because if I see the

2210
02:02:15,080 --> 02:02:17,360
Speaker 1: slightest Yanni brought up, No, he's got to bring in

2211
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:21,600
Speaker 1: his kid marks, No, he's got to bring in his kids.

2212
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:27,640
Speaker 1: Maybe your kid eats that burger, we'll talk about And

2213
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:29,200
Speaker 1: if you if you tell your kid to eat and

2214
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:30,520
Speaker 1: he eats, and I'll be like, kid, this dude's a

2215
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:32,600
Speaker 1: true believer. Now I want to hear he has to say,

2216
02:02:34,160 --> 02:02:36,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know burger to eat, man,

2217
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:38,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. If there's anybody out there willing to

2218
02:02:38,760 --> 02:02:41,000
Speaker 1: do that, it would be a tough burger. And and

2219
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:45,160
Speaker 1: we you know, we agree that. Uh, there are less

2220
02:02:45,200 --> 02:02:48,160
Speaker 1: of those people, thankfully. Unfortunately they have a pretty big

2221
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:51,720
Speaker 1: platform the detractors of of how serious it is. And

2222
02:02:52,520 --> 02:02:55,200
Speaker 1: we just need more folks out there talking about the

2223
02:02:55,280 --> 02:02:59,080
Speaker 1: seriousness of it. And luckily there's been some pretty good

2224
02:02:59,160 --> 02:03:01,960
Speaker 1: press about seed due to the general public through some

2225
02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:05,840
Speaker 1: of the larger publications like the Post. Yeah, but there's

2226
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 1: been some hysterical there has as much as you want

2227
02:03:08,760 --> 02:03:11,360
Speaker 1: people to know and take it seriously. The minutes, this

2228
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:14,400
Speaker 1: whole zombie deer that just it wants to being counterproductive

2229
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:17,760
Speaker 1: man being It's that old adage like the only thing

2230
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:23,840
Speaker 1: worse than not being written about is being written about. Um. Uh.

2231
02:03:24,240 --> 02:03:27,360
Speaker 1: Do you guys have a blanket policy on baiting deer? Uh?

2232
02:03:27,960 --> 02:03:30,240
Speaker 1: We do, um, and that's also being looked at right now.

2233
02:03:30,320 --> 02:03:34,680
Speaker 1: But the policy on I'm I'm beyond c w D now. Yeah,

2234
02:03:35,120 --> 02:03:38,600
Speaker 1: on baiting deer is in places where it's legal, legal,

2235
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:43,000
Speaker 1: and it's already there. Um, we are supportive of it,

2236
02:03:43,080 --> 02:03:46,200
Speaker 1: but we are definitely we are not supportive of introducing

2237
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:51,800
Speaker 1: it into new places. Yeah. Uh because the general public

2238
02:03:51,880 --> 02:03:55,240
Speaker 1: does not like baiting deer. Yeah, And we want support

2239
02:03:55,320 --> 02:03:58,720
Speaker 1: for hunting and uh, you know, if it's been there

2240
02:03:58,920 --> 02:04:01,080
Speaker 1: traditionally in a lot of a lot of hunters, that's

2241
02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:05,680
Speaker 1: part of the way they hunt. Um, instead of removing opportunity. Now, again,

2242
02:04:05,800 --> 02:04:08,720
Speaker 1: we also have thought processes with diseases, you know, so

2243
02:04:08,800 --> 02:04:11,840
Speaker 1: if something like chronic wasting disease pops up in there,

2244
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:15,640
Speaker 1: we would support the state agency and removing that. Yah. Uh.

2245
02:04:16,040 --> 02:04:17,800
Speaker 1: That's a part of game management that I like. And

2246
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,720
Speaker 1: I learned the principle from my brother who lives in Alaska,

2247
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 1: where they look at there's a prevalent there there. They

2248
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:27,400
Speaker 1: put a lot of weight on traditional use practices, which

2249
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:31,480
Speaker 1: I like, yeah, um that's what the hunters now, right. Yeah,

2250
02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 1: It's like it's kind of like, uh, if you have

2251
02:04:35,320 --> 02:04:38,240
Speaker 1: like what's regarded as a successful system and you're not

2252
02:04:39,080 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, you're not imperalleling species and there's a thing

2253
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 1: that has worked and it's how people have behaved and

2254
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:47,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of like woven into the culture that you

2255
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:51,879
Speaker 1: when it comes to management decisions, you prioritize traditional use practices.

2256
02:04:53,200 --> 02:04:55,800
Speaker 1: Um Like, generally I think it's like a pretty it's

2257
02:04:55,800 --> 02:04:57,800
Speaker 1: an interesting way of looking at and I generally find

2258
02:04:57,840 --> 02:04:59,800
Speaker 1: that Yeah, like I support that because for instance, like

2259
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:05,640
Speaker 1: can't you never nailed bait bears in Montana? Um I,

2260
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 1: I probably, like I wouldn't support emotion to begin it,

2261
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:14,560
Speaker 1: but in places where you can bait, I actively resist

2262
02:05:14,680 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 1: efforts to remove the right. Yeah, But that it doesn't

2263
02:05:18,640 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 1: mean I want to like introduce it in places where

2264
02:05:20,680 --> 02:05:24,040
Speaker 1: you cannot, you know, just like like honoring traditional use

2265
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:28,040
Speaker 1: practices and what sort of things have worked for hunters. UM.

2266
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:30,440
Speaker 1: One of the biggest Uh you know, what do you

2267
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:36,200
Speaker 1: got right now? I like to touch on what they're

2268
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:39,280
Speaker 1: doing to get some for the recruitment. I watched some

2269
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:42,600
Speaker 1: videos of the q d M A put out and uh,

2270
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:45,480
Speaker 1: get some new hunters on board if we have time

2271
02:05:45,520 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 1: for that. Oh yeah, lea, go ahead do it. Uh well, hey,

2272
02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:53,200
Speaker 1: I think that's tanks forte right, that would be me.

2273
02:05:53,800 --> 02:05:57,400
Speaker 1: I don't know where to start, man um, crossbows. Seems

2274
02:05:57,400 --> 02:05:59,400
Speaker 1: like you guys are putting new crossbows and all the

2275
02:05:59,440 --> 02:06:05,400
Speaker 1: new hunters. You guys like cross that's all you think

2276
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:09,040
Speaker 1: people should be able to hunt with no no, all right,

2277
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:11,840
Speaker 1: So I mean our goal is to create hunters. It's

2278
02:06:11,880 --> 02:06:14,560
Speaker 1: not you know, there have been recruitment programs in this

2279
02:06:14,720 --> 02:06:17,920
Speaker 1: country for decades and decades and decades, and really none

2280
02:06:17,960 --> 02:06:21,360
Speaker 1: of them are have been working. Well. We've focused on

2281
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:24,480
Speaker 1: the kids of traditional hunters. Uh. You know, I'm down

2282
02:06:24,560 --> 02:06:26,600
Speaker 1: the gamut. It's really hard to kind of get into

2283
02:06:26,680 --> 02:06:29,360
Speaker 1: these new audiences. And that's that's what we've been doing.

2284
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:31,800
Speaker 1: What you saw. We're about to release a video. UM,

2285
02:06:32,080 --> 02:06:33,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of a summary of our field of fork

2286
02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:37,680
Speaker 1: in Athens. Last year. But um, we set out, you know,

2287
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:41,200
Speaker 1: with this our three movement Recruit, Retain, Reactivate, we're trying

2288
02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:44,720
Speaker 1: to stem the tide of declining hunting. And and the

2289
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:46,560
Speaker 1: cool thing about our three what I love it's it's

2290
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,480
Speaker 1: to increase hunting participation but also to increase the tidal

2291
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:51,960
Speaker 1: acceptance of hunting. I think that's really big, and y'all

2292
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:54,480
Speaker 1: touch on that a lot, but it was my best

2293
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:56,680
Speaker 1: of my brother's view that he wishes he's the only

2294
02:06:56,720 --> 02:06:59,360
Speaker 1: guy that hunted, but he had a percent public support. Yeah,

2295
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:03,680
Speaker 1: and you know, like you've you've touched always credit you

2296
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:06,240
Speaker 1: on venison diplomacy. I don't know if that's correct, but

2297
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:10,120
Speaker 1: I mean, like that's really what we're doing. Um, But

2298
02:07:10,320 --> 02:07:13,920
Speaker 1: we realized that the most efficient audience to create a

2299
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:19,440
Speaker 1: hunters an adult, and um, the highest societal approval of

2300
02:07:19,560 --> 02:07:24,200
Speaker 1: hunting is food. So a buddy of mine, a colleague,

2301
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,920
Speaker 1: Charles Evans, he's a George R three coordinator, and set

2302
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:29,680
Speaker 1: on his steering committee. One day we were having lunch,

2303
02:07:29,880 --> 02:07:32,400
Speaker 1: like I had this idea to do like a game

2304
02:07:32,440 --> 02:07:34,840
Speaker 1: breakdown at our local farmers market because they were doing

2305
02:07:34,920 --> 02:07:38,400
Speaker 1: chef demonstrations and I just couldn't get my schedule to work.

2306
02:07:38,440 --> 02:07:40,200
Speaker 1: And I didn't feel like I was the expert to

2307
02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:41,640
Speaker 1: break down a deer in front of you know, a

2308
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:44,200
Speaker 1: group of people at that point in my life. Um.

2309
02:07:44,520 --> 02:07:46,320
Speaker 1: But you know, fast forward a year, I was like, hey, man,

2310
02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:48,320
Speaker 1: let's just go set up a booth at the farmers market,

2311
02:07:48,480 --> 02:07:51,360
Speaker 1: offer samples of venison and see what happens. See if

2312
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:54,120
Speaker 1: people would you know, we lead off with hey, would

2313
02:07:54,120 --> 02:07:57,840
Speaker 1: you like to try some venison? And um, and people

2314
02:07:57,920 --> 02:08:01,840
Speaker 1: are very receptive. It's amazing. Um. You know a lot

2315
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:04,520
Speaker 1: of the vegetables that come to the farmers market are

2316
02:08:04,640 --> 02:08:07,000
Speaker 1: they're you know, they're hunting deer over even in in

2317
02:08:07,080 --> 02:08:09,640
Speaker 1: the months that we we can't hunt here with depredation permits.

2318
02:08:09,680 --> 02:08:14,920
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're supporting you know, veganism or

2319
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:17,400
Speaker 1: food plant based, I mean there's still if you're don't

2320
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:19,960
Speaker 1: have an eight foot fence or better there you're still

2321
02:08:20,200 --> 02:08:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, there's deer being harvested. So really, when you

2322
02:08:24,000 --> 02:08:26,760
Speaker 1: when you present hunting for food and you and you

2323
02:08:26,920 --> 02:08:30,879
Speaker 1: tell the actual story behind it, it's really hard to attack.

2324
02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:33,480
Speaker 1: And so that's what we've done, is we've just gone

2325
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:36,000
Speaker 1: to a to a new audience. You know, I know

2326
02:08:36,200 --> 02:08:38,160
Speaker 1: that people that go to the farmer's market care about

2327
02:08:38,160 --> 02:08:43,320
Speaker 1: where their food comes from, local, sustainable, whatever. And we've

2328
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:46,840
Speaker 1: got the the you know, the best bang for your buck.

2329
02:08:46,920 --> 02:08:49,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing more local and sustainable than the

2330
02:08:49,960 --> 02:08:52,120
Speaker 1: deer that are in our backyards. And that's kind of

2331
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:54,800
Speaker 1: what we're teaching these people. And we do like cross

2332
02:08:54,840 --> 02:09:00,240
Speaker 1: spose because I can. We we recruit current hunts to

2333
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:04,240
Speaker 1: mentor these non traditional or new hunters, and so we

2334
02:09:04,720 --> 02:09:08,320
Speaker 1: we leave them opening day. We're very fortunate down in Georgia.

2335
02:09:08,360 --> 02:09:11,800
Speaker 1: I mean we have dear season from September twelfth this

2336
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:17,400
Speaker 1: year to January fifteen. I mean it's season. Yeah, I

2337
02:09:17,480 --> 02:09:21,360
Speaker 1: mean we're very fortunate. Are our limits are two bucks? Nintendos?

2338
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:25,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we we have this opportunity here and and

2339
02:09:25,360 --> 02:09:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm a firm believer of the response and all this

2340
02:09:27,800 --> 02:09:29,840
Speaker 1: is there are so many people out there they want

2341
02:09:29,840 --> 02:09:32,839
Speaker 1: to learn to hunt, um, but they just they're daunted

2342
02:09:32,880 --> 02:09:35,880
Speaker 1: by it. They don't know where to start. Um. You know,

2343
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:39,120
Speaker 1: my whole point is access as an invite. I don't

2344
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:42,280
Speaker 1: care how much public access, private access you have. No

2345
02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:44,960
Speaker 1: one goes hunting without a mentor somebody to really get

2346
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:47,160
Speaker 1: them through the steps. There's your outliers. There's a few

2347
02:09:47,200 --> 02:09:50,760
Speaker 1: of them, but we set up we use crossbows because

2348
02:09:51,360 --> 02:09:53,640
Speaker 1: we hunt the second weekend of both season, and that

2349
02:09:53,760 --> 02:09:57,400
Speaker 1: gives them the longest opportunity to continue their trial phase.

2350
02:09:58,240 --> 02:10:01,120
Speaker 1: Some take it up a immediately and they hunt with

2351
02:10:01,880 --> 02:10:04,720
Speaker 1: us or or tell us stories of hunting you ten, fifteen,

2352
02:10:04,760 --> 02:10:08,240
Speaker 1: twenty times that year. Some people, Um, it's about the

2353
02:10:08,800 --> 02:10:10,880
Speaker 1: rule in life. We're seeing a percent of our participants

2354
02:10:10,920 --> 02:10:15,400
Speaker 1: continue hunting to interrupt. I'm sorry, but we rewind just

2355
02:10:15,480 --> 02:10:17,920
Speaker 1: a little bit to to get people from the farmer's

2356
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:19,960
Speaker 1: market to the crossbow because there's a bunch in the

2357
02:10:20,000 --> 02:10:22,000
Speaker 1: middle of it. Right, So you set up the farmers market,

2358
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:25,240
Speaker 1: you give up venison samples, and then what are you doing?

2359
02:10:25,280 --> 02:10:27,920
Speaker 1: They take a bite, they're like, man, that's good. Well,

2360
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:30,440
Speaker 1: and that's the thing. We're getting people who don't eat

2361
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:33,560
Speaker 1: meat too. They're they're willing to eat the venison because

2362
02:10:35,480 --> 02:10:37,640
Speaker 1: and so um lead off with, hey, would you like

2363
02:10:37,720 --> 02:10:40,160
Speaker 1: to try some venicine? You know, nothing at the booze.

2364
02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean, we have a flyer and um, but it's

2365
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:45,600
Speaker 1: not like there's not a lot of antlers or you know,

2366
02:10:45,760 --> 02:10:47,440
Speaker 1: firearms or anything. But it's hey, would you like to

2367
02:10:47,480 --> 02:10:48,920
Speaker 1: try some venicine? And then I'll fill them out and

2368
02:10:48,960 --> 02:10:52,120
Speaker 1: say do you eat a lot of vincent? And oddly

2369
02:10:52,240 --> 02:10:54,200
Speaker 1: enough there I don't know if it's like if they

2370
02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:55,640
Speaker 1: won't to seem like they're a part of the fold

2371
02:10:55,680 --> 02:10:57,160
Speaker 1: or whatever, but a lot of people say that they

2372
02:10:57,200 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 1: eat a lot of innicine, so they're getting it somewhere,

2373
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:03,080
Speaker 1: whether they have a family member or a friend or someone.

2374
02:11:03,520 --> 02:11:05,280
Speaker 1: A lot of them say they're any medicine. And then

2375
02:11:05,320 --> 02:11:08,000
Speaker 1: I just continue the conversations that hey, we're actually here

2376
02:11:08,560 --> 02:11:11,840
Speaker 1: to recruit fifteen hunters to go through this program locally.

2377
02:11:11,960 --> 02:11:14,960
Speaker 1: And you know, it's two afternoon trainings in my office

2378
02:11:15,120 --> 02:11:18,160
Speaker 1: for three hours, and we take them on to organize

2379
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:21,680
Speaker 1: deer hunt. Um it's a Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning deer hunt.

2380
02:11:21,960 --> 02:11:24,800
Speaker 1: But we're pairing them with local mentors and we try

2381
02:11:24,840 --> 02:11:27,200
Speaker 1: to get them to form that bond or that relationship

2382
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 1: to continue into you know, there's multiple levels of mentorship.

2383
02:11:31,520 --> 02:11:35,080
Speaker 1: I think becoming a hunters to confidence levels. We know

2384
02:11:35,320 --> 02:11:37,080
Speaker 1: that if you don't teach somebody how to take care

2385
02:11:37,120 --> 02:11:40,200
Speaker 1: of an animal, they'll never go out again because that

2386
02:11:40,320 --> 02:11:43,080
Speaker 1: fear of waste. Uh, just not being so you have

2387
02:11:43,160 --> 02:11:45,240
Speaker 1: to have the confidence. Yeah, we hear that a lot.

2388
02:11:45,440 --> 02:11:47,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm gonna do once it's dead.

2389
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:51,200
Speaker 1: And so if you aren't confident that you're not gonna

2390
02:11:51,280 --> 02:11:55,400
Speaker 1: go the responsible person and the majority UM. And then

2391
02:11:55,680 --> 02:11:58,600
Speaker 1: I think self identifying a hunter is the ultimate goal

2392
02:11:58,640 --> 02:12:00,960
Speaker 1: of our three. But that's confidence, you know, to go

2393
02:12:01,120 --> 02:12:04,320
Speaker 1: knock on somebody's door, or or even just self identify

2394
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:06,280
Speaker 1: as a hunter. Like if you don't know what you're

2395
02:12:06,280 --> 02:12:07,920
Speaker 1: doing to get knock on somebody story like hey can

2396
02:12:07,960 --> 02:12:12,080
Speaker 1: I hunt your back fifteen or whatever, it just doesn't work.

2397
02:12:12,120 --> 02:12:15,080
Speaker 1: I think it's important too, especially the age demographics that

2398
02:12:15,120 --> 02:12:16,760
Speaker 1: you're seeing. You could touch on that. I think the

2399
02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:19,720
Speaker 1: first one was from like eighteen to sixty four. It

2400
02:12:19,880 --> 02:12:23,520
Speaker 1: was so mid sixties. We've we've evolved over the years.

2401
02:12:23,640 --> 02:12:27,200
Speaker 1: The first year, UM, we recruited a fairly young group.

2402
02:12:27,280 --> 02:12:29,840
Speaker 1: We had a couple of undergraduates where Athens, Georgia college

2403
02:12:29,880 --> 02:12:35,640
Speaker 1: towns where we piloted it UM. But moving forward, we've

2404
02:12:35,680 --> 02:12:39,080
Speaker 1: had people of all different walks of life, from engineers

2405
02:12:39,240 --> 02:12:43,600
Speaker 1: to roofers to organic farmers to the farmers market manager.

2406
02:12:43,760 --> 02:12:48,000
Speaker 1: This year, UM, you know, both male and female UM,

2407
02:12:48,920 --> 02:12:50,960
Speaker 1: just all walks of life, but it's a it's a

2408
02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:54,040
Speaker 1: common desire to learn to hunt for food. We really

2409
02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:56,840
Speaker 1: do pre select we we do a very diligent we

2410
02:12:57,000 --> 02:13:00,200
Speaker 1: use surveys and before we select them, I want make

2411
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:03,440
Speaker 1: sure that they didn't grow up hunting, that they don't

2412
02:13:03,480 --> 02:13:06,560
Speaker 1: have immediate resources, like their father didn't hunt, and they

2413
02:13:06,600 --> 02:13:08,960
Speaker 1: just didn't take them up on the opportunity as a kid.

2414
02:13:09,040 --> 02:13:11,480
Speaker 1: We really want to get those that wouldn't otherwise have

2415
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:17,600
Speaker 1: the opportunity. But um, I mean, now it's eighteen to seventy. Um,

2416
02:13:19,960 --> 02:13:23,720
Speaker 1: it's it's really just uh, it's fun to do. Um,

2417
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:26,120
Speaker 1: it's inspiring, but it just shows that how many people

2418
02:13:26,160 --> 02:13:29,640
Speaker 1: out there are interested and and to train them up.

2419
02:13:29,640 --> 02:13:31,640
Speaker 1: Your training them up and shooting cross boats like half

2420
02:13:31,680 --> 02:13:34,480
Speaker 1: of our training and shooting cross bus. The reason behind

2421
02:13:34,520 --> 02:13:37,160
Speaker 1: that is it's it's to become a new hunter. And

2422
02:13:37,240 --> 02:13:40,560
Speaker 1: think about this two points. If you're mid thirty five,

2423
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:43,280
Speaker 1: forty years on, hadn and hunted yet, it's pretty intimidating

2424
02:13:43,360 --> 02:13:45,200
Speaker 1: thing to go up your buddy and go, hey man,

2425
02:13:45,240 --> 02:13:46,840
Speaker 1: we take me hunting this weekend with you. I mean,

2426
02:13:47,320 --> 02:13:49,040
Speaker 1: if you haven't done it at that point in your life,

2427
02:13:49,120 --> 02:13:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, forties, You're probably not gonna go seek somebody

2428
02:13:52,080 --> 02:13:53,920
Speaker 1: out to do that. I mean, statistics are low. So

2429
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:56,400
Speaker 1: now the rules are reversed. You know, Hank and No.

2430
02:13:56,520 --> 02:13:59,680
Speaker 1: R three program or the Field to Fork program are asking, hey,

2431
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:02,040
Speaker 1: do you want to hunt with us? Right? And then

2432
02:14:02,600 --> 02:14:05,280
Speaker 1: where the crossbow comes in play is it's it's a

2433
02:14:05,360 --> 02:14:08,200
Speaker 1: less of an intimidating weapon. You know when you start,

2434
02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, you put a thirty out six in someone's hand.

2435
02:14:10,520 --> 02:14:13,200
Speaker 1: There a first time hunter, especially for a female, whoa

2436
02:14:13,320 --> 02:14:14,720
Speaker 1: wait a minute here, this is you know, this is

2437
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:16,640
Speaker 1: quite the undertake. I don't know if I feel comfortable

2438
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:18,960
Speaker 1: with that. Crossbow is a little bit different. You know,

2439
02:14:19,120 --> 02:14:22,560
Speaker 1: they're less recoil. You know, they don't shoot that far

2440
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:26,720
Speaker 1: you know, etcetera, etcetera. So that's probably it opens up

2441
02:14:26,880 --> 02:14:32,720
Speaker 1: more opportunity. Yeah, two nights ago, I had some I

2442
02:14:32,840 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 1: have some outtown visitors that I alluded to earlier, and

2443
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:39,960
Speaker 1: we actually we cooked a whole deer leg on a

2444
02:14:40,200 --> 02:14:44,160
Speaker 1: pellet grill eight dinner. And then one of my bodies

2445
02:14:44,240 --> 02:14:48,120
Speaker 1: was talking to another body of mine and he's talking

2446
02:14:48,120 --> 02:14:50,160
Speaker 1: about that he never bowl hunted and he got a

2447
02:14:50,240 --> 02:14:52,240
Speaker 1: cross bowl, and I overheard him saying, man, it's like

2448
02:14:52,240 --> 02:14:56,320
Speaker 1: shooting him with a rifle. I've heard another guy bring

2449
02:14:56,440 --> 02:14:59,360
Speaker 1: up to me once. He's like, because you know, like

2450
02:14:59,480 --> 02:15:03,560
Speaker 1: the cross a community well often talk about, oh, efficacy

2451
02:15:03,640 --> 02:15:07,720
Speaker 1: rates aren't that much higher with crossbows. But we had

2452
02:15:07,760 --> 02:15:10,480
Speaker 1: a listener right in he had an interesting point. He's like, yeah,

2453
02:15:10,560 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 1: because you don't have lifelong hunters shooting them. If you

2454
02:15:15,720 --> 02:15:18,280
Speaker 1: had all these stone cold killers who've been shooting compound

2455
02:15:18,320 --> 02:15:20,280
Speaker 1: bowls their whole life and they really know how to hunt,

2456
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:22,920
Speaker 1: if you gave them a cross bowl, they're gonna mop up.

2457
02:15:23,480 --> 02:15:26,760
Speaker 1: But like crossbow hunters are typically people who don't know

2458
02:15:26,800 --> 02:15:29,040
Speaker 1: a lot about deer, don't know a lot about deer hunting.

2459
02:15:29,320 --> 02:15:31,680
Speaker 1: They don't know about all the tricks of the trade,

2460
02:15:32,200 --> 02:15:35,600
Speaker 1: and so they tend to be less effective and less efficient.

2461
02:15:36,520 --> 02:15:40,400
Speaker 1: But if you gave like, you know, the real uh,

2462
02:15:41,560 --> 02:15:46,440
Speaker 1: the real pros that piece of equipment, it would be

2463
02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:48,920
Speaker 1: the you know to beat both season will be gun season.

2464
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:53,040
Speaker 1: Another interesting angle too, is there's a difference I think

2465
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:55,040
Speaker 1: in taking somebody hunting and teaching them to be a

2466
02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:58,040
Speaker 1: hunter and doing the field the fork in Athens per

2467
02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:00,480
Speaker 1: Se in other places we've done it. Most of these

2468
02:16:00,520 --> 02:16:04,680
Speaker 1: people living around suburban communities where a crossbow allows them

2469
02:16:04,760 --> 02:16:07,880
Speaker 1: to hunt. They can hunt in their their back half

2470
02:16:07,960 --> 02:16:10,080
Speaker 1: acre if they want to. They have then taken a

2471
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:12,760
Speaker 1: right for etcetera, etcetera. So the idea is, we're gonna

2472
02:16:12,760 --> 02:16:14,640
Speaker 1: teach you how to shoot across bow. You're gonna become

2473
02:16:14,640 --> 02:16:16,920
Speaker 1: a hunter, and hopefully you're gonna replicate this and do

2474
02:16:17,000 --> 02:16:18,600
Speaker 1: it yourself on your own time, maybe even on your

2475
02:16:18,640 --> 02:16:21,080
Speaker 1: own property or an uncle's properly your cousin's property. You know,

2476
02:16:21,240 --> 02:16:23,720
Speaker 1: Ryan Zex absolutely right. You know, we we wanted to

2477
02:16:23,800 --> 02:16:26,360
Speaker 1: use crossbows to take advantage of the early archery seasons.

2478
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:29,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's not cold long, you have daylight hours

2479
02:16:29,160 --> 02:16:31,640
Speaker 1: after work. I mean, somebody can show up him at

2480
02:16:31,880 --> 02:16:33,720
Speaker 1: hunting property at five thirty and hunt for a couple

2481
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:36,040
Speaker 1: of hours, and you know, once they like seven time switches,

2482
02:16:36,240 --> 02:16:39,600
Speaker 1: you lose that. Um, there is a stigma against guns

2483
02:16:39,640 --> 02:16:42,160
Speaker 1: in this country, especially in these uh you know what

2484
02:16:42,320 --> 02:16:44,920
Speaker 1: we call, you know, a non traditional audience or something

2485
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:48,000
Speaker 1: we found that. You know a lot of people at

2486
02:16:48,040 --> 02:16:49,800
Speaker 1: the booth will say I don't know if I could

2487
02:16:49,840 --> 02:16:52,240
Speaker 1: really do that, and then you can say, well, we're

2488
02:16:52,240 --> 02:16:55,360
Speaker 1: actually using archery equipment and they just perk up. I mean,

2489
02:16:55,440 --> 02:16:58,280
Speaker 1: it's there, it's it probably has a little bit more

2490
02:16:58,320 --> 02:17:00,880
Speaker 1: to that like Native America. Can you know, you just

2491
02:17:00,959 --> 02:17:05,280
Speaker 1: feel like you're a little more um um, you know

2492
02:17:05,560 --> 02:17:08,959
Speaker 1: it's intimate. Yeah, people say, well, people, there's this misconception

2493
02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:13,160
Speaker 1: to that people feel that it's ethical. Yeah, like that,

2494
02:17:13,280 --> 02:17:15,720
Speaker 1: it's more it's it's like such a weird piece of logic,

2495
02:17:15,840 --> 02:17:19,240
Speaker 1: but it's pervasive that it's like more ethical to shoot

2496
02:17:19,280 --> 02:17:21,720
Speaker 1: an animal with a bow than it didn't shoot animal

2497
02:17:21,720 --> 02:17:24,400
Speaker 1: of the gun, which is like I could see all

2498
02:17:24,480 --> 02:17:26,480
Speaker 1: kinds of reasons why bo hunt, Like I love the

2499
02:17:26,520 --> 02:17:29,000
Speaker 1: bo hunt bo hunt in my entire life. Um. And

2500
02:17:29,080 --> 02:17:32,280
Speaker 1: it has a lot to do with how the hunter's perception,

2501
02:17:32,920 --> 02:17:36,800
Speaker 1: meaning it's more challenging, it takes a greater it takes

2502
02:17:36,959 --> 02:17:40,960
Speaker 1: more skill to master it. It's like, you know, there's

2503
02:17:41,000 --> 02:17:44,360
Speaker 1: a thousand things but to say ethical, Like the most

2504
02:17:44,440 --> 02:17:47,200
Speaker 1: ethical way to kill a deer probably a captive bolt

2505
02:17:47,240 --> 02:17:51,040
Speaker 1: gun to the head, but probably like I mean that's

2506
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:54,840
Speaker 1: what like with cattle, they've kicked around a thousand ways

2507
02:17:54,879 --> 02:17:56,880
Speaker 1: to kill coles and they eventually settled on the idea

2508
02:17:56,920 --> 02:18:01,320
Speaker 1: that a big pneumatic you know, a one inch diameternumatic

2509
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:03,600
Speaker 1: thing driving down into their brain pan is a very

2510
02:18:03,680 --> 02:18:07,000
Speaker 1: ethical way to kill cows. So there's this, there's this

2511
02:18:07,280 --> 02:18:10,400
Speaker 1: that misperson that that miss it's like a misarticulation or

2512
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:13,280
Speaker 1: like a kind of a confusion about what your personal

2513
02:18:13,400 --> 02:18:15,760
Speaker 1: journey is, and you're confusing that with sort of like

2514
02:18:16,120 --> 02:18:18,360
Speaker 1: how best to like put an animal down and kill it.

2515
02:18:18,879 --> 02:18:22,280
Speaker 1: And I don't make all my decisions based on what's

2516
02:18:22,440 --> 02:18:24,440
Speaker 1: the best way to put an animal down and kill it,

2517
02:18:25,600 --> 02:18:28,279
Speaker 1: because if I did, it would it would change aspects.

2518
02:18:28,280 --> 02:18:31,200
Speaker 1: There's a huge personal element to it, right, there's a

2519
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:33,800
Speaker 1: huge personal element to it. I don't think anyone really

2520
02:18:33,879 --> 02:18:38,280
Speaker 1: is trying to strive towards like what is the absolute fastest,

2521
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:42,959
Speaker 1: easiest way to kill things? No? No, And and we've

2522
02:18:43,000 --> 02:18:45,680
Speaker 1: actually seen you know, it takes in three hours. We

2523
02:18:45,720 --> 02:18:47,879
Speaker 1: can make somebody perficient with a crossbow and we limit

2524
02:18:47,879 --> 02:18:50,440
Speaker 1: their sh oh yeah, I mean it's as opposed to

2525
02:18:50,480 --> 02:18:52,600
Speaker 1: three years. Oh yeah, No, that's the difference is we

2526
02:18:52,640 --> 02:18:55,039
Speaker 1: couldn't do it with the vertical best. So you can

2527
02:18:55,080 --> 02:18:56,760
Speaker 1: get someone ready to kill a deer in three hours.

2528
02:18:56,879 --> 02:19:02,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well they just make crossbows. Why not just

2529
02:19:03,480 --> 02:19:05,440
Speaker 1: make it that you can use a crossbow doing gun season,

2530
02:19:06,600 --> 02:19:08,680
Speaker 1: you can not even why not just have it be that,

2531
02:19:08,800 --> 02:19:11,320
Speaker 1: have bow season be bowl season and then crossbows is

2532
02:19:11,400 --> 02:19:13,120
Speaker 1: part of gun season. That way, they don't if they're

2533
02:19:13,120 --> 02:19:15,320
Speaker 1: afraid of guns, they think guns are bad, they can

2534
02:19:15,360 --> 02:19:18,240
Speaker 1: just go hunt during guns season with a crossbow. That's

2535
02:19:18,280 --> 02:19:20,320
Speaker 1: a good idea, right, Yeah, I mean you can use

2536
02:19:20,320 --> 02:19:22,960
Speaker 1: a crossbow anytime. And in some states like Kentucky has

2537
02:19:23,000 --> 02:19:26,520
Speaker 1: a crossbows season, they don't allow them in their regular arches. S. Yeah,

2538
02:19:26,600 --> 02:19:28,760
Speaker 1: if if that's the argument, like, oh, you're like you

2539
02:19:28,800 --> 02:19:31,560
Speaker 1: think guns are naughty, I would just be okay. Then

2540
02:19:31,640 --> 02:19:33,680
Speaker 1: the home of the crossbow during gun season. Oh, I

2541
02:19:33,720 --> 02:19:36,120
Speaker 1: mean I've had people tell me that Phill the Fork

2542
02:19:36,240 --> 02:19:38,280
Speaker 1: is BS because we use crossbows. You know what I mean,

2543
02:19:38,320 --> 02:19:41,600
Speaker 1: you know that that's a stretch. Yeah, but um, but

2544
02:19:41,680 --> 02:19:44,000
Speaker 1: they're not saying it's naughty. They're just they're just more

2545
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:47,560
Speaker 1: comfortable with it. Yes, I like, and I don't know.

2546
02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I just like, I haven't formed. I don't

2547
02:19:49,959 --> 02:19:52,160
Speaker 1: have a big Crossbowl opinion yet. So I can tell

2548
02:19:52,160 --> 02:19:53,640
Speaker 1: you this though, Like I can tell you this part

2549
02:19:53,680 --> 02:19:58,280
Speaker 1: of it, I would be bummed. I'm generally bummed when

2550
02:19:58,320 --> 02:20:02,000
Speaker 1: I see them without even knowing why I feel this way.

2551
02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm bummed when I see states opened up for cross bowls. Okay, yeah,

2552
02:20:08,120 --> 02:20:11,039
Speaker 1: I'm always like a really well, I'm not like I'm

2553
02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:13,600
Speaker 1: gonna go with like protests and like pick up the

2554
02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:17,320
Speaker 1: state capital or even like write a letter, but I'm

2555
02:20:17,320 --> 02:20:20,160
Speaker 1: always like, uh, that's my feeling, and it's like a

2556
02:20:20,240 --> 02:20:22,800
Speaker 1: lot of old man kind of stuff. Well, I can't

2557
02:20:23,520 --> 02:20:26,800
Speaker 1: hated crossbows. Yeah, probably where I can't support it because

2558
02:20:26,959 --> 02:20:30,400
Speaker 1: I'm looking for opportunity. I want to increase hunting participation,

2559
02:20:30,520 --> 02:20:33,040
Speaker 1: but that will cost I guess that the kicker is

2560
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:36,520
Speaker 1: of our participants. It's probably even out now, but in

2561
02:20:36,560 --> 02:20:39,240
Speaker 1: our first couple of years, they went out and purchased rifles.

2562
02:20:39,840 --> 02:20:41,800
Speaker 1: After learning to hunt with a crossbow, they went and

2563
02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 1: purchased guns. They wanted to get even better. I mean

2564
02:20:46,959 --> 02:20:50,600
Speaker 1: toward a lady from Philadelphia last year, and she actually

2565
02:20:50,720 --> 02:20:53,920
Speaker 1: seeked us out. She was a vegan. At one point

2566
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:56,119
Speaker 1: their doctor told her she needed protein, so she wanted

2567
02:20:56,120 --> 02:20:58,320
Speaker 1: the most organic form of protein and thought, I want

2568
02:20:58,320 --> 02:21:01,360
Speaker 1: to become a hunter, and I just did that. She

2569
02:21:01,440 --> 02:21:03,760
Speaker 1: shot shot a deer. A video was awesome and really cool.

2570
02:21:03,920 --> 02:21:05,760
Speaker 1: She broke down and cried and you know, but it

2571
02:21:05,840 --> 02:21:09,280
Speaker 1: was really neat move moment. But literally two weeks two

2572
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:11,760
Speaker 1: weeks later, she sends me a picture of a deer rifle,

2573
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:17,480
Speaker 1: like I'm going on. It was funny because you know,

2574
02:21:17,680 --> 02:21:20,880
Speaker 1: she was very skeptical at first, and then when she

2575
02:21:21,000 --> 02:21:22,960
Speaker 1: got it behind her, it was a matter of two

2576
02:21:23,040 --> 02:21:26,160
Speaker 1: weeks and it was almost like now they're all done. Now,

2577
02:21:26,440 --> 02:21:28,560
Speaker 1: Like I got a gun and it's just how many

2578
02:21:28,600 --> 02:21:30,959
Speaker 1: am I allowed to stack up here. I've never I've

2579
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:32,800
Speaker 1: never I've taken a lot of first time hunters out

2580
02:21:32,879 --> 02:21:35,320
Speaker 1: over a long long period of time. I have never

2581
02:21:35,600 --> 02:21:38,480
Speaker 1: ever had someone regret that they did it. I've had

2582
02:21:38,520 --> 02:21:40,680
Speaker 1: people not pick it up. I've had people be like, oh,

2583
02:21:40,720 --> 02:21:42,240
Speaker 1: that was great, and then what they think they're gone,

2584
02:21:42,240 --> 02:21:44,440
Speaker 1: and then they don't. I've never had someone be like, man,

2585
02:21:44,480 --> 02:21:46,680
Speaker 1: I really wish Like when I went to Disneyland or

2586
02:21:46,720 --> 02:21:50,519
Speaker 1: Disney World, what ones in California. I went to Disneyland

2587
02:21:51,080 --> 02:21:54,400
Speaker 1: and I wish I hadn't right. I was like, I

2588
02:21:54,520 --> 02:21:57,600
Speaker 1: regretted going. But I've never had I've never taken someone

2589
02:21:57,720 --> 02:22:00,360
Speaker 1: hunting and been like, man, I really wish I had

2590
02:22:00,360 --> 02:22:03,160
Speaker 1: made a different decision and hadn't gone and done it. Everybody.

2591
02:22:03,400 --> 02:22:07,200
Speaker 1: This is like it changes people's worldview and they might

2592
02:22:07,280 --> 02:22:09,880
Speaker 1: not start, but they liked having done it, and it

2593
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:13,080
Speaker 1: totally rewrites their understanding what it's and it changes you

2594
02:22:13,240 --> 02:22:15,600
Speaker 1: as a as a mentor. I found I much rather

2595
02:22:15,720 --> 02:22:17,280
Speaker 1: watch someone else get something to me get as long

2596
02:22:17,280 --> 02:22:20,200
Speaker 1: as I get half of it. Yeah, No, I'm serious, man,

2597
02:22:20,280 --> 02:22:21,720
Speaker 1: If you asked me like to go turkey, and I'd

2598
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:25,320
Speaker 1: much rather watch someone get like calling a turkey and

2599
02:22:25,320 --> 02:22:27,240
Speaker 1: watch someone get a turkey than than than me get

2600
02:22:27,280 --> 02:22:29,120
Speaker 1: a turkey, unless it's, be honest, for someone who's got

2601
02:22:29,160 --> 02:22:32,960
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of them. Now, now, Hank tell me this,

2602
02:22:33,280 --> 02:22:36,520
Speaker 1: there's a big leap from going out hunting once too

2603
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:39,440
Speaker 1: then converting that into a future hunter. And I think

2604
02:22:39,879 --> 02:22:43,000
Speaker 1: you guys have kind of dialed in a scalpel way

2605
02:22:43,040 --> 02:22:45,040
Speaker 1: to do that and correct me if I get these

2606
02:22:45,080 --> 02:22:48,880
Speaker 1: details wrong. But you kind of a system where you right,

2607
02:22:48,879 --> 02:22:50,760
Speaker 1: there's a couple days of education and then there's a

2608
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:53,600
Speaker 1: mentor hunt. But then the key thing is there's follow up.

2609
02:22:53,840 --> 02:22:55,480
Speaker 1: So it's not like we take your hunting once and

2610
02:22:55,560 --> 02:22:57,880
Speaker 1: you go and then that's it. You have a follow

2611
02:22:57,959 --> 02:23:00,360
Speaker 1: up meeting with everyone again again and then also have

2612
02:23:00,480 --> 02:23:02,720
Speaker 1: mentors that stay in touch afterwards, right, can you kind

2613
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:05,040
Speaker 1: of explain that? Yeah, that's good because I think that

2614
02:23:05,160 --> 02:23:09,320
Speaker 1: it's Remember a body mind participate in a program like

2615
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:10,920
Speaker 1: this and he's like, oh, you can get people to

2616
02:23:11,000 --> 02:23:13,040
Speaker 1: come out on a hunt all day if you're like, oh,

2617
02:23:13,080 --> 02:23:16,039
Speaker 1: I'll take you to my this participating farm, and then

2618
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:17,560
Speaker 1: they have a great time and then they go home

2619
02:23:17,600 --> 02:23:19,840
Speaker 1: and like, what the hell is he gonna do? Yeah? No, Um,

2620
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:22,840
Speaker 1: the one and done events don't work. And we know

2621
02:23:22,959 --> 02:23:24,680
Speaker 1: that that's a big part of the our three movement

2622
02:23:24,760 --> 02:23:27,840
Speaker 1: stuff is just let's actually evaluate and track the data,

2623
02:23:28,000 --> 02:23:29,840
Speaker 1: like let's see if we're being successful. And that's how

2624
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:32,760
Speaker 1: I can say that Actually this year, six of our

2625
02:23:32,800 --> 02:23:37,120
Speaker 1: hunters continued hunting program. Yeah, but you know, and what's

2626
02:23:37,160 --> 02:23:39,560
Speaker 1: your guys, like, what what's the secret to success there? Well,

2627
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:43,080
Speaker 1: the secret is is there self selecting. We're it's not

2628
02:23:43,680 --> 02:23:46,480
Speaker 1: it's not Billy's dad that signed them up for this hunt.

2629
02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:48,360
Speaker 1: They see me at the farmers market and they're like,

2630
02:23:48,400 --> 02:23:50,280
Speaker 1: this is something I want to do, and actually it's

2631
02:23:50,320 --> 02:23:51,880
Speaker 1: usually a good point. I've been wanting to do this

2632
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:53,920
Speaker 1: for ten years or five years. I mean, and you

2633
02:23:54,000 --> 02:23:56,560
Speaker 1: meet him, You meet him where you go to them.

2634
02:23:56,959 --> 02:24:01,520
Speaker 1: That's what no one's doing. You know, we're noting hunting. Um.

2635
02:24:01,640 --> 02:24:03,440
Speaker 1: You know, the philled to fork made the Wall Street

2636
02:24:03,480 --> 02:24:06,760
Speaker 1: JOURNALI it got all these views, but that's the first

2637
02:24:06,800 --> 02:24:08,560
Speaker 1: time we got it in front of a new audience,

2638
02:24:08,720 --> 02:24:10,800
Speaker 1: you know, having filled and stream right about field, the

2639
02:24:10,879 --> 02:24:14,080
Speaker 1: fork is only going to a hunting base. Mostly they're like,

2640
02:24:15,160 --> 02:24:18,320
Speaker 1: and so we've yeah, we've got to get hunting in

2641
02:24:18,400 --> 02:24:20,480
Speaker 1: front of new audiences. And by going to the farmer's

2642
02:24:20,480 --> 02:24:22,880
Speaker 1: marking that happens. But to your point, that's a good point, man.

2643
02:24:22,959 --> 02:24:26,080
Speaker 1: The self selection rather than being that that you know

2644
02:24:26,200 --> 02:24:29,840
Speaker 1: someone's like, damnit, son, you're going to know they're they're

2645
02:24:29,959 --> 02:24:32,480
Speaker 1: self selecting. There they went to a place where there

2646
02:24:32,560 --> 02:24:34,520
Speaker 1: it's like, here's people that are interested in there, in

2647
02:24:35,160 --> 02:24:38,199
Speaker 1: there interesting food. You're meeting them in on in common

2648
02:24:38,280 --> 02:24:41,360
Speaker 1: ground where they where they are already focused on that

2649
02:24:41,480 --> 02:24:44,680
Speaker 1: type of environment, right and important factors. They don't think

2650
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:47,800
Speaker 1: Hack mentioned it filled the forks in Georgia and then

2651
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:50,360
Speaker 1: I didn't want in Pennsylvania. But there's always a wild

2652
02:24:50,440 --> 02:24:53,680
Speaker 1: game component at every meeting. So whenever they're there for

2653
02:24:53,760 --> 02:24:56,240
Speaker 1: the training, we're cooking wild game when and then the

2654
02:24:56,840 --> 02:24:59,360
Speaker 1: post uh, you know, the post mortem if you will,

2655
02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:02,400
Speaker 1: cooking old game. And then we didn't want In Pennsylvania,

2656
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:05,280
Speaker 1: my brother in law is an executive chef, and we

2657
02:25:05,480 --> 02:25:08,160
Speaker 1: had a whole butchering segment and cooking. Every meal we

2658
02:25:08,480 --> 02:25:10,000
Speaker 1: ate was a wild game. He taught us how, taught

2659
02:25:10,040 --> 02:25:12,600
Speaker 1: him how to make sausage, you know, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

2660
02:25:12,680 --> 02:25:16,199
Speaker 1: So it gave them ownership of you know, they they left.

2661
02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:20,119
Speaker 1: They're very confident in you know, I can actually kill

2662
02:25:20,200 --> 02:25:22,440
Speaker 1: this animal, I can take care of this animal, and

2663
02:25:22,480 --> 02:25:24,480
Speaker 1: then I can cook and eat this It's delicious, you know.

2664
02:25:24,600 --> 02:25:28,199
Speaker 1: So it was now it does. That is some work

2665
02:25:28,400 --> 02:25:30,680
Speaker 1: on the mentors part to pull that off. But when

2666
02:25:30,720 --> 02:25:32,480
Speaker 1: you do it, I think that's what has why you

2667
02:25:32,600 --> 02:25:35,760
Speaker 1: get successful. That's what that's that's the thing I like,

2668
02:25:35,840 --> 02:25:37,879
Speaker 1: because I think you're creating like a good I mean

2669
02:25:38,040 --> 02:25:39,880
Speaker 1: say like good hunters and bad hunters, but you're creating

2670
02:25:39,879 --> 02:25:42,520
Speaker 1: good hunters because I think everyone now, like in the

2671
02:25:42,640 --> 02:25:45,320
Speaker 1: last few years, everyone likes to pay lip service to

2672
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:48,160
Speaker 1: whatever field, the table, feel, the fort because it's because

2673
02:25:48,320 --> 02:25:50,360
Speaker 1: like people like it, they're interested in it. But then

2674
02:25:50,400 --> 02:25:53,360
Speaker 1: you'll have guys will be like, oh, I killed thirty

2675
02:25:53,440 --> 02:25:56,360
Speaker 1: five big game animals this year. It's like, is that right?

2676
02:25:56,879 --> 02:26:00,480
Speaker 1: And you're big field the fort guy, Huh, pretty hardy

2677
02:26:00,640 --> 02:26:03,800
Speaker 1: couple of meals, you may. It's like it's just gotten

2678
02:26:03,840 --> 02:26:05,879
Speaker 1: to the point where people just use it now as

2679
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:08,560
Speaker 1: like a tool, as a marketing tool, and it's so

2680
02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:13,640
Speaker 1: it's so full of ship with some people who like

2681
02:26:13,720 --> 02:26:16,400
Speaker 1: are talking about something they really don't care about. It's

2682
02:26:16,440 --> 02:26:18,840
Speaker 1: like they're harping on some things. They know it cells

2683
02:26:18,920 --> 02:26:21,160
Speaker 1: and that, and I just know they don't care, like

2684
02:26:21,320 --> 02:26:24,040
Speaker 1: they talk about it because people like it and then

2685
02:26:24,080 --> 02:26:27,120
Speaker 1: they live with hypocrisy. But I think that like in

2686
02:26:27,240 --> 02:26:30,440
Speaker 1: this idea of like finding people through interest and food

2687
02:26:30,959 --> 02:26:33,360
Speaker 1: is it's it's it feels like honest to me because

2688
02:26:33,400 --> 02:26:35,920
Speaker 1: people are coming into it with that interest and going

2689
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:38,640
Speaker 1: into food. I think it's also important to talk about

2690
02:26:38,680 --> 02:26:43,080
Speaker 1: wild game consumption among hunters and and educate hunters about

2691
02:26:43,080 --> 02:26:46,360
Speaker 1: it better. Yeah. No, um, I mean I could go

2692
02:26:46,480 --> 02:26:48,720
Speaker 1: back to Mark's point of our our you know, our

2693
02:26:48,760 --> 02:26:50,880
Speaker 1: schedule of how we do it, but he's absolutely right.

2694
02:26:50,920 --> 02:26:53,200
Speaker 1: We do. We do two after nuds of training, we

2695
02:26:53,280 --> 02:26:56,000
Speaker 1: do an organized hunt. Really, the value of that is

2696
02:26:56,080 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 1: to get it on the calendar. It's like it's it's

2697
02:26:58,080 --> 02:26:59,880
Speaker 1: a date that they have to do it, you know

2698
02:27:00,080 --> 02:27:03,000
Speaker 1: that that they they start. But the success of the

2699
02:27:03,040 --> 02:27:06,840
Speaker 1: program is in the follow up opportunities whether um, you know,

2700
02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:10,400
Speaker 1: I've got a local landowner now who's thinking about you know,

2701
02:27:11,160 --> 02:27:14,520
Speaker 1: giving a lease per se, not not a monetary exchange,

2702
02:27:14,600 --> 02:27:17,000
Speaker 1: but you know, allow create a hunting camp for these

2703
02:27:17,040 --> 02:27:20,879
Speaker 1: new hunters. Yeah. Um, you know they're seeing the success.

2704
02:27:21,040 --> 02:27:22,920
Speaker 1: They're they're a part of it. But we we do

2705
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:26,360
Speaker 1: serve wild game at every you know, at the farmer's market.

2706
02:27:26,400 --> 02:27:29,280
Speaker 1: At both trainings, I'll cook you know, vincent tacos or

2707
02:27:29,320 --> 02:27:32,280
Speaker 1: burgers or whatever I have at the time. Um, and

2708
02:27:32,320 --> 02:27:34,720
Speaker 1: then we have a culinary social We usually back it

2709
02:27:34,800 --> 02:27:36,680
Speaker 1: up a couple of weeks from the organized hunt so

2710
02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:38,560
Speaker 1: more people will get out hunting because I really want

2711
02:27:38,600 --> 02:27:41,640
Speaker 1: them to share their story as the group. We're finding

2712
02:27:41,680 --> 02:27:45,000
Speaker 1: that you know, it's social support that creates that hunter.

2713
02:27:45,120 --> 02:27:46,760
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing I talked about earlier, like

2714
02:27:46,800 --> 02:27:49,959
Speaker 1: different levels of mentorship. We're creating a group and it's

2715
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:52,240
Speaker 1: all local. It's not like hey, let's go you know,

2716
02:27:52,720 --> 02:27:55,400
Speaker 1: five hours away and let's go hunt it just wouldn't

2717
02:27:55,400 --> 02:27:57,680
Speaker 1: be as sustainable. We've got this community now, we've got

2718
02:27:57,720 --> 02:28:00,800
Speaker 1: like fifty people in Athens and and we've expanded to

2719
02:28:01,440 --> 02:28:04,200
Speaker 1: we'll have twenty field to fork events this fall. People

2720
02:28:04,240 --> 02:28:06,880
Speaker 1: have to pay to goal. We we charge fifty dollars

2721
02:28:07,240 --> 02:28:09,800
Speaker 1: and some have gone away from that. I mean, as

2722
02:28:09,840 --> 02:28:13,320
Speaker 1: it's replicated, it's different. I don't we do it just

2723
02:28:13,680 --> 02:28:16,040
Speaker 1: as like a little bit of buying, like hopefully they'll

2724
02:28:16,080 --> 02:28:19,040
Speaker 1: show up for fifty bucks. And I mean everybody on

2725
02:28:19,320 --> 02:28:21,360
Speaker 1: on the back ends, like, man, this is like the

2726
02:28:21,400 --> 02:28:23,840
Speaker 1: best investment I've ever made in my life. Give it.

2727
02:28:23,920 --> 02:28:26,680
Speaker 1: Give example of how those follow up opportunities might work.

2728
02:28:26,760 --> 02:28:29,320
Speaker 1: Where a mentor might send and like a group email

2729
02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:31,840
Speaker 1: out to everybody, and we've we've done you know, group

2730
02:28:31,959 --> 02:28:34,160
Speaker 1: texts which can get a little text and we have

2731
02:28:34,240 --> 02:28:37,640
Speaker 1: a hidden Facebook group for the Athens one. I see

2732
02:28:37,680 --> 02:28:40,040
Speaker 1: email chains and it'll just like hey, I've got you

2733
02:28:40,080 --> 02:28:41,520
Speaker 1: know it'll be a first time hunter or whatever. And

2734
02:28:41,560 --> 02:28:44,600
Speaker 1: it's like I've got Thursday and Friday afternoons free, you know,

2735
02:28:44,680 --> 02:28:47,320
Speaker 1: anybody want to take me hunting or a land donner.

2736
02:28:47,640 --> 02:28:50,320
Speaker 1: You know, be like, hey, guys, I'm available this weekend

2737
02:28:50,320 --> 02:28:52,200
Speaker 1: if you want to come hunt. Come on. So it's

2738
02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:54,520
Speaker 1: not like they always pair up with the same one.

2739
02:28:54,640 --> 02:28:58,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'll take four four of them hunting with

2740
02:28:58,160 --> 02:29:00,360
Speaker 1: just me, you know, because I can take Cara and

2741
02:29:00,480 --> 02:29:02,480
Speaker 1: if if we get lucky and stuff and you go

2742
02:29:02,560 --> 02:29:04,600
Speaker 1: out somewhere where someone's trying to get some doles removed

2743
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:08,720
Speaker 1: after person and um, yeah, we're not selective. I mean,

2744
02:29:08,879 --> 02:29:10,880
Speaker 1: if if it makes them happy and they want to

2745
02:29:10,920 --> 02:29:15,920
Speaker 1: put it in their freezer, let's you're married. That's an

2746
02:29:15,959 --> 02:29:20,880
Speaker 1: interesting Have you like found people to date through this?

2747
02:29:22,000 --> 02:29:24,920
Speaker 1: You probably can't talk about it because you're like at work. Yeah,

2748
02:29:26,200 --> 02:29:29,160
Speaker 1: we have, we have a filled to fork matchmaking service

2749
02:29:29,400 --> 02:29:34,640
Speaker 1: and no, no legitimate we there is a field match.

2750
02:29:35,280 --> 02:29:38,000
Speaker 1: It is not a true matchmaking service. But it has happened,

2751
02:29:38,640 --> 02:29:41,680
Speaker 1: not personally. But you don't stand in the way of

2752
02:29:41,760 --> 02:29:46,480
Speaker 1: it happening. And now because yeah, I'm always like gaming,

2753
02:29:46,520 --> 02:29:48,320
Speaker 1: like I'm so far away from being single, but I'm

2754
02:29:48,320 --> 02:29:54,959
Speaker 1: always like imagining single. Oh, I mean that's what I'm

2755
02:29:54,959 --> 02:29:58,320
Speaker 1: always thinking about. Yeah, and I try a lot of

2756
02:29:58,360 --> 02:30:00,920
Speaker 1: my theories my wife. But you know what I do

2757
02:30:01,000 --> 02:30:06,040
Speaker 1: if I was single and then no, But I mean

2758
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:09,720
Speaker 1: it's just created this community. It's people of all different

2759
02:30:09,760 --> 02:30:12,720
Speaker 1: walks of life that are you know, share this common

2760
02:30:12,760 --> 02:30:15,520
Speaker 1: bond of wanting to have a better connection with their food.

2761
02:30:15,560 --> 02:30:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean what we hear is they won't. It's for

2762
02:30:18,400 --> 02:30:20,960
Speaker 1: the meat, it's a connection with nature, it's the meditative

2763
02:30:21,000 --> 02:30:23,960
Speaker 1: aspect of sitting in the woods. What it really is,

2764
02:30:24,280 --> 02:30:27,959
Speaker 1: they don't know what it really is. Yeah, no, I'm

2765
02:30:27,959 --> 02:30:30,040
Speaker 1: telling you what it really is is that you'll never

2766
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:32,800
Speaker 1: put your finger on it. Well, it's more than just

2767
02:30:32,959 --> 02:30:36,160
Speaker 1: the meat. Because if you said to them, if you said, hey,

2768
02:30:36,240 --> 02:30:38,560
Speaker 1: man um, you found him at a farmer's market and

2769
02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:40,200
Speaker 1: you get to talk about it, you're like, hey, there's

2770
02:30:40,240 --> 02:30:42,200
Speaker 1: one or two things we could do here. I just

2771
02:30:42,440 --> 02:30:45,440
Speaker 1: dump a deer off at your place, or you can

2772
02:30:45,480 --> 02:30:49,400
Speaker 1: come do this thing. If it was just the meat, yeah,

2773
02:30:49,480 --> 02:30:54,680
Speaker 1: they'd be like, we'll just drop it off whole package

2774
02:30:54,720 --> 02:30:57,840
Speaker 1: of things. But the meat does the meat does? The

2775
02:30:57,920 --> 02:31:00,879
Speaker 1: people have it like it's a huge part and it's important.

2776
02:31:01,240 --> 02:31:02,720
Speaker 1: But people have a thing where they need to like

2777
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:08,400
Speaker 1: make this balanced image in their head of wildlife management, sustainability,

2778
02:31:08,959 --> 02:31:11,760
Speaker 1: self sufficiency, and they and they and the people that

2779
02:31:11,800 --> 02:31:13,840
Speaker 1: are suspicious to hunting or didn't grow up around it

2780
02:31:14,200 --> 02:31:19,200
Speaker 1: are checking boxes in their head, and it's like yeah,

2781
02:31:19,400 --> 02:31:21,680
Speaker 1: not not. I don't even like justify makes this sound negative,

2782
02:31:21,800 --> 02:31:23,480
Speaker 1: but it's like they're like they're they weigh this thing

2783
02:31:23,520 --> 02:31:25,959
Speaker 1: out and they're like, I need to know it's good

2784
02:31:26,040 --> 02:31:28,480
Speaker 1: for me because I want to eat the stuff, but

2785
02:31:28,600 --> 02:31:30,760
Speaker 1: I also need to understand some basic things about like

2786
02:31:30,800 --> 02:31:32,920
Speaker 1: how wildlife works, Like what does the story of wildlife

2787
02:31:32,959 --> 02:31:34,800
Speaker 1: in America? And you need to answer that in a

2788
02:31:34,879 --> 02:31:37,760
Speaker 1: satisfactory way because people aren't gonna go like you might

2789
02:31:37,800 --> 02:31:39,160
Speaker 1: give them all the meat in the world. They might

2790
02:31:39,200 --> 02:31:40,840
Speaker 1: kill all the meat in the world, need everything, but

2791
02:31:40,920 --> 02:31:43,840
Speaker 1: if they feel that they're doing something it's detrimental to

2792
02:31:43,959 --> 02:31:48,120
Speaker 1: the environment, yeah, that's not it. It's like it's like

2793
02:31:48,240 --> 02:31:55,320
Speaker 1: self sufficiency, being like a constructive participant in um like

2794
02:31:55,480 --> 02:31:59,600
Speaker 1: a sustainability or betterment for wildlife, not eman for the

2795
02:31:59,720 --> 02:32:01,920
Speaker 1: environ RMIT. Like people got to know all this stuff

2796
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:05,040
Speaker 1: like I'm talking about when dealing with people who are

2797
02:32:05,080 --> 02:32:08,240
Speaker 1: like completely outside of hunting. Yeah, it's like the meat, yeah,

2798
02:32:08,320 --> 02:32:11,800
Speaker 1: but it's like that's very important, but there's a bunch

2799
02:32:11,840 --> 02:32:14,720
Speaker 1: of other things that need to be satisfied in their mind. Absolutely,

2800
02:32:14,800 --> 02:32:16,840
Speaker 1: And and that was one of the shocking things for me,

2801
02:32:17,080 --> 02:32:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, kind of starting this program is they're so

2802
02:32:20,280 --> 02:32:23,480
Speaker 1: interested in the ecology of money and it's and I think,

2803
02:32:23,720 --> 02:32:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, part of where I see the success of

2804
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:31,040
Speaker 1: the program is they're going back to their perspective peer

2805
02:32:31,120 --> 02:32:33,959
Speaker 1: groups and they're sharing their venisine and they're sharing their

2806
02:32:34,040 --> 02:32:38,039
Speaker 1: story and that it's venisine diplomacy to entirely new groups.

2807
02:32:38,959 --> 02:32:43,480
Speaker 1: And they also need want that ecology and an understanding

2808
02:32:43,600 --> 02:32:45,200
Speaker 1: of the value of hunting because they've got to go

2809
02:32:45,480 --> 02:32:47,800
Speaker 1: back to their peer group and explain what they're doing.

2810
02:32:48,680 --> 02:32:52,000
Speaker 1: And like, you know, like I imagine you probably don't

2811
02:32:52,080 --> 02:32:57,760
Speaker 1: create closet and hunters. No. Now these people are out there.

2812
02:32:57,760 --> 02:33:01,520
Speaker 1: They're my best advocates. Um, you know, we have a

2813
02:33:01,600 --> 02:33:04,000
Speaker 1: waiting list for the Athens program. We wouldn't we probably

2814
02:33:04,040 --> 02:33:05,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't never have to get to the farmers market again.

2815
02:33:06,600 --> 02:33:08,800
Speaker 1: But I can't call me these How many of these

2816
02:33:08,840 --> 02:33:11,480
Speaker 1: you do it every year? Just one in Athens? Uh,

2817
02:33:11,760 --> 02:33:13,480
Speaker 1: we know your How many is q d M A

2818
02:33:13,600 --> 02:33:16,680
Speaker 1: putting on? We'll do about twenty five this year and um,

2819
02:33:17,200 --> 02:33:19,960
Speaker 1: you know about twelve states. And here's one of the

2820
02:33:20,000 --> 02:33:22,000
Speaker 1: things really powerful about what you guys have done here

2821
02:33:22,959 --> 02:33:26,280
Speaker 1: is you have developed you've systematized this thing. So for

2822
02:33:26,320 --> 02:33:28,080
Speaker 1: a long time people have said, you got a mentor hunters,

2823
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:29,840
Speaker 1: you gotta take them out there and connect them with food.

2824
02:33:29,959 --> 02:33:32,440
Speaker 1: But you guys have put in place a structure and

2825
02:33:32,520 --> 02:33:36,520
Speaker 1: a curriculum, a toolkit that can scale. So you guys

2826
02:33:36,600 --> 02:33:38,480
Speaker 1: have correct if I'm wrong here, but right, you guys

2827
02:33:38,520 --> 02:33:40,680
Speaker 1: have a toolkit that if someone listening says, hey, I've

2828
02:33:40,680 --> 02:33:42,640
Speaker 1: always wanted to do this, this sounds looks such a

2829
02:33:42,680 --> 02:33:45,680
Speaker 1: great program. The numbers bear it out. You have the

2830
02:33:45,760 --> 02:33:48,920
Speaker 1: resources people need so that Joe Blow can go get

2831
02:33:48,959 --> 02:33:51,960
Speaker 1: this information, get the curriculum, get the whole plan, print

2832
02:33:52,000 --> 02:33:53,720
Speaker 1: out the stuff and show up with their farmers market

2833
02:33:53,800 --> 02:33:56,080
Speaker 1: next week and and start executing on this with your

2834
02:33:56,080 --> 02:33:59,119
Speaker 1: guys support. Right, yeah, no, And and that's what I'm

2835
02:33:59,200 --> 02:34:01,720
Speaker 1: doing as I'm HOWL, being to facilitate the expansion of

2836
02:34:01,800 --> 02:34:05,199
Speaker 1: this program and working with people of all walks of life,

2837
02:34:05,320 --> 02:34:09,400
Speaker 1: all different conservation organizations in w T F, B H A. UM,

2838
02:34:09,800 --> 02:34:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, all the different state agencies from each state.

2839
02:34:11,879 --> 02:34:14,320
Speaker 1: We're partnering with them. I want to try to bring in,

2840
02:34:14,600 --> 02:34:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, a collective make these more sustainable. But um,

2841
02:34:18,320 --> 02:34:21,640
Speaker 1: we have a standardized education. We we wrote an e book,

2842
02:34:21,800 --> 02:34:23,720
Speaker 1: you made this guide, the Successful Deer Hunting. It's probably

2843
02:34:23,720 --> 02:34:26,560
Speaker 1: been four years ago, but it's a great resource. We

2844
02:34:26,840 --> 02:34:29,120
Speaker 1: just got back from Massy Oak in Films about a

2845
02:34:29,200 --> 02:34:31,920
Speaker 1: fifteen part video series on how to deer hunt, which

2846
02:34:31,959 --> 02:34:35,320
Speaker 1: will be a great resource for curriculum for Filled the Fork.

2847
02:34:35,840 --> 02:34:39,480
Speaker 1: But I am of the mind set that we need

2848
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:43,440
Speaker 1: to do the education necessary in person. But I want

2849
02:34:43,480 --> 02:34:45,520
Speaker 1: to give these people the resources where they can go

2850
02:34:45,680 --> 02:34:48,879
Speaker 1: home and learn video. You know, we give them resources

2851
02:34:48,959 --> 02:34:52,720
Speaker 1: like your website. Um. You know, we actually sit down

2852
02:34:52,760 --> 02:34:56,720
Speaker 1: with them at the UM this second afternoon and say

2853
02:34:56,800 --> 02:34:58,640
Speaker 1: what what are we missing? What you need from us?

2854
02:34:58,640 --> 02:35:01,400
Speaker 1: And we do the same thing at the Culinary Social

2855
02:35:01,600 --> 02:35:03,920
Speaker 1: it's what do you need now? What are what did

2856
02:35:03,959 --> 02:35:06,119
Speaker 1: we not touch on? You know? A lot of it's

2857
02:35:06,120 --> 02:35:08,440
Speaker 1: always like hey, places to hunt, you know what about

2858
02:35:08,520 --> 02:35:11,720
Speaker 1: local public lands. We send a lot of information for

2859
02:35:11,800 --> 02:35:14,440
Speaker 1: it on that. But we are trying to create this

2860
02:35:14,959 --> 02:35:16,960
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not trying to keep it all

2861
02:35:17,040 --> 02:35:20,240
Speaker 1: under the qum A banner. I'll run. I'll run for

2862
02:35:20,600 --> 02:35:22,640
Speaker 1: Filled to Forks this year with b h A OK.

2863
02:35:23,160 --> 02:35:26,640
Speaker 1: So I'm participating in mentoring a cutum A slash B

2864
02:35:26,879 --> 02:35:29,240
Speaker 1: h a joint Field of Fork event this year in Michigan,

2865
02:35:29,560 --> 02:35:32,000
Speaker 1: and I think that's such a cool opportunity. It's important

2866
02:35:32,040 --> 02:35:34,600
Speaker 1: to note too that it doesn't have to be I say,

2867
02:35:35,080 --> 02:35:37,480
Speaker 1: limited to a group thing. I mean, any one of

2868
02:35:37,720 --> 02:35:40,120
Speaker 1: your listeners can do this on their own. Basically. That

2869
02:35:40,360 --> 02:35:42,760
Speaker 1: that's what we want. That's for the program to be successful.

2870
02:35:42,840 --> 02:35:46,480
Speaker 1: That's what has to happen. People need to introduce new

2871
02:35:46,560 --> 02:35:50,200
Speaker 1: people hunting outside of their proverbial box. Yeah, at the

2872
02:35:50,280 --> 02:35:52,480
Speaker 1: end of the day, I mean, organized programs aren't going

2873
02:35:52,520 --> 02:35:54,520
Speaker 1: to move the needle. I mean, we we want to

2874
02:35:54,560 --> 02:35:56,160
Speaker 1: scale it, we want to get it, but it's going

2875
02:35:56,200 --> 02:35:59,400
Speaker 1: to be individual hunters that that either increase hunting participation

2876
02:35:59,520 --> 02:36:03,080
Speaker 1: or not. We need individual hunters to mentor um and

2877
02:36:03,160 --> 02:36:04,879
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're going. But we've taken field

2878
02:36:04,920 --> 02:36:07,480
Speaker 1: to Fork and as we've replicated around the country, I've

2879
02:36:07,520 --> 02:36:10,200
Speaker 1: tried to prove a few different models. I've gone to

2880
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:13,000
Speaker 1: Texas and done destination filled the forks on large branches

2881
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:16,440
Speaker 1: where people travel in and and it works. But I

2882
02:36:16,720 --> 02:36:19,280
Speaker 1: will only take people from Texas because to take somebody

2883
02:36:19,320 --> 02:36:20,800
Speaker 1: from New York and take him to Texas to teach

2884
02:36:20,879 --> 02:36:25,280
Speaker 1: them that deer hunting. It doesn't work, but um, I've will.

2885
02:36:25,400 --> 02:36:28,039
Speaker 1: We're gonna host a field to fork for TRIGGER employees

2886
02:36:28,240 --> 02:36:30,960
Speaker 1: this year. Last year, I hosted a field to fork

2887
02:36:31,040 --> 02:36:34,720
Speaker 1: for twenty four employees of Ruger and six Hour American

2888
02:36:34,800 --> 02:36:39,039
Speaker 1: firearm manufacturers. And that was because an engineer, a young

2889
02:36:39,160 --> 02:36:41,680
Speaker 1: lady when we held our first field to fork and

2890
02:36:41,720 --> 02:36:43,840
Speaker 1: posted about it on Facebook, reached out. Her name was

2891
02:36:43,840 --> 02:36:46,960
Speaker 1: Emily Monroe, and I clicked on her Facebook profile and

2892
02:36:47,080 --> 02:36:51,320
Speaker 1: she was an engineer at Ruger. Seriously, she was a

2893
02:36:51,800 --> 02:36:55,120
Speaker 1: M I T small bore national champion. I mean she

2894
02:36:55,360 --> 02:36:57,400
Speaker 1: she didn't get a scholarship to M I T. I

2895
02:36:57,480 --> 02:37:00,440
Speaker 1: have misquoted that many times, but she even you know,

2896
02:37:00,560 --> 02:37:03,880
Speaker 1: competition small bore rifle shooting and always wanted to learn

2897
02:37:03,920 --> 02:37:06,840
Speaker 1: how to hunt. That is how bad we've done as

2898
02:37:06,879 --> 02:37:10,119
Speaker 1: an industry and as a group. We're not even recruiting

2899
02:37:10,160 --> 02:37:12,520
Speaker 1: our own. We've hosted Phillip the Forks for q MA employees,

2900
02:37:12,560 --> 02:37:15,000
Speaker 1: where I just hosted from my you know, twenty office

2901
02:37:15,000 --> 02:37:17,800
Speaker 1: employees who want to learn to hunt. But yeah, we

2902
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:21,400
Speaker 1: had to cap it at twenty four in American firearm

2903
02:37:21,440 --> 02:37:24,200
Speaker 1: manufacturers who wanted to learn how to hunt. Yeah, it's

2904
02:37:24,240 --> 02:37:28,600
Speaker 1: just we're doing a terrible job, and and you know,

2905
02:37:28,760 --> 02:37:30,520
Speaker 1: we've just I think a lot of hunters have kind

2906
02:37:30,520 --> 02:37:33,240
Speaker 1: of been isolation us. If it's a terrible job, it's

2907
02:37:33,280 --> 02:37:36,160
Speaker 1: just a job that's never really been needed to be done.

2908
02:37:36,560 --> 02:37:38,240
Speaker 1: When I when you look in the grand scheme of

2909
02:37:38,320 --> 02:37:42,320
Speaker 1: things years ago, most people hunt it that's just what

2910
02:37:42,400 --> 02:37:45,000
Speaker 1: you did, especially in the Northeast, right, everybody was a hunter.

2911
02:37:45,040 --> 02:37:47,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I want say everybody very relative. It's still

2912
02:37:47,040 --> 02:37:49,440
Speaker 1: at ten percent or less, right, Yeah, but it felt

2913
02:37:49,520 --> 02:37:51,720
Speaker 1: like it felt like that's just what you did where

2914
02:37:51,760 --> 02:37:54,520
Speaker 1: I grew up, Like, I mean, you when you were

2915
02:37:54,560 --> 02:37:56,280
Speaker 1: twelve years old, you got a deer license and you

2916
02:37:56,320 --> 02:37:58,080
Speaker 1: went hunting. Us is how this is how it was.

2917
02:37:58,400 --> 02:38:01,160
Speaker 1: But now again in gram scheme of things, twenty five

2918
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:03,320
Speaker 1: years isn't that long a time. It's a different game

2919
02:38:03,360 --> 02:38:04,960
Speaker 1: out there, you know. So it's not that we've done

2920
02:38:05,000 --> 02:38:06,760
Speaker 1: a bad job, but just didn't recognize that the job

2921
02:38:06,840 --> 02:38:10,000
Speaker 1: needed done. I think now it's very apparent that you know,

2922
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:12,000
Speaker 1: we're trying to play catch up. I think to almost

2923
02:38:12,080 --> 02:38:14,040
Speaker 1: a certain extent. Yeah, I mean four and a half

2924
02:38:14,080 --> 02:38:17,400
Speaker 1: percent of American population hunts. We have to understand that

2925
02:38:18,280 --> 02:38:20,320
Speaker 1: becoming a vast minority of the population is going to

2926
02:38:20,360 --> 02:38:23,400
Speaker 1: have negative consequences. And I don't know how many of

2927
02:38:23,440 --> 02:38:26,520
Speaker 1: the percentages of American population we could actually support as hunters,

2928
02:38:27,240 --> 02:38:29,120
Speaker 1: but we we need to do what we can to

2929
02:38:29,200 --> 02:38:35,960
Speaker 1: try to increase high participation. Alright, man, that was your question.

2930
02:38:36,680 --> 02:38:39,959
Speaker 1: Thank you, good job. Anymore, we gotta wrap it up.

2931
02:38:40,000 --> 02:38:42,160
Speaker 1: You gotta wrap it up. And everybody's teeth are floating

2932
02:38:42,200 --> 02:38:46,560
Speaker 1: at this point. You mean people, Uh, that's like euphemism

2933
02:38:48,720 --> 02:38:55,000
Speaker 1: for the bladders. Their back teeth are floating on the

2934
02:38:55,040 --> 02:39:00,880
Speaker 1: back teeth, teeth, the float. Um. Is there anything humongous

2935
02:39:00,959 --> 02:39:03,960
Speaker 1: things that are like major misses that we missed, not

2936
02:39:04,120 --> 02:39:07,080
Speaker 1: like little trifling things, but like really really like damn it,

2937
02:39:07,720 --> 02:39:09,840
Speaker 1: damn well, I got a major thing. I'm really a

2938
02:39:09,920 --> 02:39:13,040
Speaker 1: major thing. Yeah. I'm holding Mark accountable from intoring a

2939
02:39:13,080 --> 02:39:16,760
Speaker 1: new hunter this year. Um, he asked me to. And

2940
02:39:17,000 --> 02:39:18,360
Speaker 1: he's also going to be a part of our field

2941
02:39:18,360 --> 02:39:19,840
Speaker 1: a Ford program, but I think he's going to mentor

2942
02:39:19,879 --> 02:39:23,360
Speaker 1: another hunter outside of that. Yeah, And really, I mean

2943
02:39:23,840 --> 02:39:25,440
Speaker 1: that's what we want to try to get every hunter

2944
02:39:25,520 --> 02:39:29,240
Speaker 1: to do. So we have a staff challenge amongst D

2945
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:32,360
Speaker 1: field staff members to hunt a mentor new hunter every year,

2946
02:39:33,080 --> 02:39:36,000
Speaker 1: two or three years now, dude, mean Yanni Crank come

2947
02:39:36,000 --> 02:39:39,440
Speaker 1: out like Henry ford Man. Two people, we are two

2948
02:39:39,440 --> 02:39:43,040
Speaker 1: people hunt in this spring, and weirdly one of them,

2949
02:39:43,280 --> 02:39:46,720
Speaker 1: h this is kind of weird. One of them has property.

2950
02:39:47,920 --> 02:39:49,720
Speaker 1: So now I'm like, you know, maybe we go hunt

2951
02:39:49,720 --> 02:39:55,760
Speaker 1: your place. She's like, that's great. Everybody thinks so just like,

2952
02:39:56,200 --> 02:39:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, totally outside of the fold. But yeah, we're

2953
02:39:58,320 --> 02:40:00,879
Speaker 1: meeting these people that fifty acres and we'll go walk

2954
02:40:00,920 --> 02:40:02,520
Speaker 1: in and show where to hang the air stands. You know,

2955
02:40:02,640 --> 02:40:07,520
Speaker 1: it's not it's not just this total any other humongous mrs.

2956
02:40:10,000 --> 02:40:12,879
Speaker 1: All right, guys, people find you imagine you type into

2957
02:40:12,879 --> 02:40:16,600
Speaker 1: your computer q d M A. Yeah, you'll find us.

2958
02:40:17,680 --> 02:40:19,959
Speaker 1: Don't type in q d M. They'll probably find anyway

2959
02:40:20,120 --> 02:40:24,240
Speaker 1: they might they might. All right, I encourage people to

2960
02:40:24,280 --> 02:40:27,200
Speaker 1: go have a look. And if you gripe about q

2961
02:40:27,360 --> 02:40:29,000
Speaker 1: d M A, I'd be curious to have you go

2962
02:40:29,160 --> 02:40:31,120
Speaker 1: look and be like, Okay, what exactly don't you agree with?

2963
02:40:32,360 --> 02:40:36,280
Speaker 1: Like what exactly is the problem people writing and tell

2964
02:40:36,360 --> 02:40:38,320
Speaker 1: us about? Be interested? Like when you like, actually look

2965
02:40:38,400 --> 02:40:43,000
Speaker 1: like what the organization says and does? Where's the like

2966
02:40:43,560 --> 02:40:46,160
Speaker 1: show me the part you don't like, Yeah, that's that's

2967
02:40:46,240 --> 02:40:50,600
Speaker 1: the big misconception that's there for years. It's yeah, it's

2968
02:40:51,240 --> 02:40:54,840
Speaker 1: other people doing certain things get the q d M

2969
02:40:54,920 --> 02:40:59,199
Speaker 1: a label applied to them, and it's like it's misappropriated,

2970
02:40:59,440 --> 02:41:01,320
Speaker 1: and then people think, oh, that's what Kitty May is

2971
02:41:01,360 --> 02:41:02,760
Speaker 1: and and it's not really like you said, when you

2972
02:41:02,800 --> 02:41:05,040
Speaker 1: actually go and see what these three folks here and

2973
02:41:05,040 --> 02:41:08,320
Speaker 1: their organization really are speaking about doing in the field,

2974
02:41:08,840 --> 02:41:12,080
Speaker 1: what they have on their website, those those missions, it's

2975
02:41:12,080 --> 02:41:14,120
Speaker 1: hard to argue with that. Yeah, and I think an

2976
02:41:14,120 --> 02:41:19,199
Speaker 1: important note from our CEO down you know, Kip, Matt Hank, myself, honestly,

2977
02:41:19,320 --> 02:41:22,280
Speaker 1: we're just passionate deer hunters. I mean we work in

2978
02:41:22,360 --> 02:41:25,080
Speaker 1: the industry, yes, but we all got there because we

2979
02:41:25,160 --> 02:41:27,760
Speaker 1: were deer hunters first. And so it's not like there's

2980
02:41:27,760 --> 02:41:29,480
Speaker 1: any hinting agendas that we're trying to do this. We're

2981
02:41:29,480 --> 02:41:31,520
Speaker 1: trying to do that at the I mean, you know,

2982
02:41:31,600 --> 02:41:34,640
Speaker 1: our CEO hunts hundred days a year probably you know,

2983
02:41:34,680 --> 02:41:38,600
Speaker 1: he's a deer hunter man. He's not Peter that. I

2984
02:41:38,680 --> 02:41:41,160
Speaker 1: mean Kip, I mean kIPS, you know, our head wildife

2985
02:41:41,200 --> 02:41:44,640
Speaker 1: Ball just Mac works for He is a passionate deer hunter.

2986
02:41:44,920 --> 02:41:47,840
Speaker 1: It's just all there is too. We're just hunters. Yeah, alright, guys,

2987
02:41:47,879 --> 02:42:13,240
Speaker 1: thanks coming down man, We appreciate it. Kay, ladies and gentlemen.

2988
02:42:13,360 --> 02:42:16,760
Speaker 1: As promised, we're not going to get into our our

2989
02:42:16,840 --> 02:42:21,080
Speaker 1: special report. And again this covers a collaborative partnership between

2990
02:42:21,120 --> 02:42:26,200
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and on X, who just released

2991
02:42:26,240 --> 02:42:30,560
Speaker 1: a new report. It's called Inaccessible State Lands in the West,

2992
02:42:31,000 --> 02:42:33,760
Speaker 1: the extent of the landlocked problem and the tools to

2993
02:42:33,840 --> 02:42:36,680
Speaker 1: fix it. And out of the kindness of their own hearts,

2994
02:42:37,680 --> 02:42:41,119
Speaker 1: these two organizations tr CP and on X pulled together

2995
02:42:41,240 --> 02:42:44,119
Speaker 1: to try to get an assessment, to try to put

2996
02:42:44,200 --> 02:42:48,600
Speaker 1: their arms around the extent of the landlocked public lands

2997
02:42:48,680 --> 02:42:52,720
Speaker 1: problem in the American West and to help maybe present

2998
02:42:52,840 --> 02:42:56,359
Speaker 1: some solutions to figure it out. Again. If you remember,

2999
02:42:56,720 --> 02:42:58,800
Speaker 1: we recently had t r c P and on X

3000
02:42:58,920 --> 02:43:01,959
Speaker 1: on UH about a year ago or so to discuss

3001
02:43:02,000 --> 02:43:04,800
Speaker 1: the report which looked at landlocked federal lands, and they

3002
02:43:04,879 --> 02:43:10,280
Speaker 1: had identified nine point five two million acres of land

3003
02:43:11,040 --> 02:43:15,039
Speaker 1: that you and I as American taxpayers own but can't

3004
02:43:15,160 --> 02:43:18,600
Speaker 1: get to because they're surrounded by private land and the

3005
02:43:18,680 --> 02:43:21,200
Speaker 1: only way to get in there is to have permission

3006
02:43:21,360 --> 02:43:24,480
Speaker 1: from private landowners. Well they filed that up with this

3007
02:43:24,640 --> 02:43:27,879
Speaker 1: new state report. So we're talking about inaccessible public lands.

3008
02:43:27,879 --> 02:43:31,800
Speaker 1: Are talking about plots of ground right that are theoretically

3009
02:43:31,879 --> 02:43:34,720
Speaker 1: open to the public and they're owned equally by all

3010
02:43:34,800 --> 02:43:38,920
Speaker 1: of us as Americans, but being that they're entirely enclosed

3011
02:43:38,959 --> 02:43:42,800
Speaker 1: by private land, the land is unreachable unless you have

3012
02:43:42,879 --> 02:43:46,440
Speaker 1: permission from a private landowner. So there they are, we

3013
02:43:46,560 --> 02:43:49,160
Speaker 1: own them, we just can't get on them. Well, TRCP

3014
02:43:49,240 --> 02:43:52,840
Speaker 1: and on X wanted to investigate exactly how great the

3015
02:43:52,959 --> 02:43:57,240
Speaker 1: Western States landlocked problem really is and how to identify

3016
02:43:57,360 --> 02:43:59,960
Speaker 1: some collaborative solutions that could help open up more land

3017
02:44:00,040 --> 02:44:03,080
Speaker 1: and for all of us to use for hunting, fishing,

3018
02:44:03,400 --> 02:44:06,880
Speaker 1: outdoor recreation. And discussing this, we're joined by Joel Webster,

3019
02:44:07,320 --> 02:44:11,000
Speaker 1: Director of Western Lands at TRCP, Randall Williams, t r

3020
02:44:11,120 --> 02:44:15,880
Speaker 1: CPS Western Communications and Engagement Manager, Lisa Nichols, who's the

3021
02:44:15,959 --> 02:44:20,120
Speaker 1: g I S supervisor on X, and Eric Siegfried, who's

3022
02:44:20,160 --> 02:44:23,400
Speaker 1: the founder of on X. Now, before we get into

3023
02:44:23,440 --> 02:44:25,199
Speaker 1: the main thing, I had sort of given a little

3024
02:44:25,280 --> 02:44:28,760
Speaker 1: homework to Joel Webster where I had a question that's

3025
02:44:28,800 --> 02:44:31,280
Speaker 1: related to land access but not related to the report,

3026
02:44:31,680 --> 02:44:33,640
Speaker 1: and I wanted include in. Here's I thought was interesting,

3027
02:44:34,240 --> 02:44:37,680
Speaker 1: is Uh. It had come up a lot recently and

3028
02:44:37,760 --> 02:44:40,480
Speaker 1: talking to friends of mine, Like, let's say you're sitting

3029
02:44:40,480 --> 02:44:43,000
Speaker 1: there looking at a piece of private or public land

3030
02:44:43,040 --> 02:44:45,240
Speaker 1: on a map and there's no way to get to it,

3031
02:44:45,360 --> 02:44:48,960
Speaker 1: but an interstate cuts through it. Uh, And we're talking

3032
02:44:48,959 --> 02:44:51,600
Speaker 1: about this, like whether or not you can pull over

3033
02:44:51,920 --> 02:44:56,320
Speaker 1: unlimited access highway. So say, like I ninety fifteen whatever,

3034
02:44:56,400 --> 02:44:59,280
Speaker 1: pull over unlimited access highway and jump out of your

3035
02:44:59,360 --> 02:45:02,880
Speaker 1: car and go access some little chunk of public land

3036
02:45:02,920 --> 02:45:05,520
Speaker 1: that you've identified on X. It's funny because I was

3037
02:45:05,560 --> 02:45:08,480
Speaker 1: talking with this, talking to Joel about this, and then

3038
02:45:09,040 --> 02:45:10,600
Speaker 1: a couple of days later I had a body mind

3039
02:45:10,680 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 1: visit from out of town. He went out, went out

3040
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:16,560
Speaker 1: antelope hunting, and text me away point and asked, can

3041
02:45:16,600 --> 02:45:19,320
Speaker 1: I legally get into this? Because he was curious can

3042
02:45:19,360 --> 02:45:21,480
Speaker 1: I pull over on the side of a of an

3043
02:45:21,600 --> 02:45:26,240
Speaker 1: interstate and head off to hunt? So here's Joel on

3044
02:45:26,560 --> 02:45:29,480
Speaker 1: whether or not that's okay. Do you know how there's

3045
02:45:29,520 --> 02:45:32,880
Speaker 1: like certain things like if you're like law abiding hunter angler,

3046
02:45:32,920 --> 02:45:35,760
Speaker 1: like there's certain things that you do thinking they're perfectly legal,

3047
02:45:36,200 --> 02:45:38,720
Speaker 1: and then you realize later that wow, actually maybe that

3048
02:45:39,080 --> 02:45:44,000
Speaker 1: isn't allowed, and and then you like to change your behavior,

3049
02:45:44,080 --> 02:45:45,760
Speaker 1: and it kind of ruins it for you after that

3050
02:45:45,800 --> 02:45:47,760
Speaker 1: because you thought, you know, you're perfectly fine, and this

3051
02:45:47,879 --> 02:45:49,880
Speaker 1: is one of those issues for me. And so I

3052
02:45:49,959 --> 02:45:51,760
Speaker 1: did a little digging into this. I didn't look at

3053
02:45:51,800 --> 02:45:54,360
Speaker 1: a lot of states. Um so this is how I

3054
02:45:54,440 --> 02:45:57,200
Speaker 1: understand one Wyoming, and there's state law. This is a

3055
02:45:57,240 --> 02:46:02,760
Speaker 1: state law stuff. There's state law cifically prohibits. Let me ask,

3056
02:46:02,920 --> 02:46:05,240
Speaker 1: why is it not because there's no federal oversight of

3057
02:46:05,280 --> 02:46:08,480
Speaker 1: the highway system, Like there's no federal enforcement on a

3058
02:46:08,560 --> 02:46:11,920
Speaker 1: highway system, right is Yeah, state placed and I don't

3059
02:46:11,959 --> 02:46:14,000
Speaker 1: pull you over for speeding on an interest not usually

3060
02:46:14,120 --> 02:46:17,400
Speaker 1: now depends on what you did. Yeah, that is true.

3061
02:46:18,400 --> 02:46:23,199
Speaker 1: Uh So the state of Wyoming, there's state laws specifically

3062
02:46:23,280 --> 02:46:27,600
Speaker 1: prohibits stopping along a controlled access highway. I feel like

3063
02:46:27,600 --> 02:46:30,800
Speaker 1: a Montana there's actually no laws saying you can't stop.

3064
02:46:31,520 --> 02:46:34,120
Speaker 1: Um so, actually stopping there is perfectly legal as I

3065
02:46:34,240 --> 02:46:36,600
Speaker 1: read it. What's illegal as it says you cannot go

3066
02:46:36,760 --> 02:46:40,080
Speaker 1: outside of the lines and that you must enter and

3067
02:46:40,280 --> 02:46:43,720
Speaker 1: exit the interstate it designated spots. And so when you

3068
02:46:43,760 --> 02:46:46,480
Speaker 1: see somebody in talking about Honting, they're just talking about whatever.

3069
02:46:46,640 --> 02:46:49,119
Speaker 1: Just whatever. And so you know when you're driving along

3070
02:46:49,160 --> 02:46:51,240
Speaker 1: the road and you accidentally sort of swerve over and

3071
02:46:51,320 --> 02:46:53,440
Speaker 1: hit the rumble strip, like you are breaking the law

3072
02:46:53,520 --> 02:46:55,400
Speaker 1: the same way somebody is when they pull over in

3073
02:46:55,480 --> 02:46:58,720
Speaker 1: park to go hunting. As I read the law, um

3074
02:46:59,360 --> 02:47:02,879
Speaker 1: new can its special special permits for um on and off,

3075
02:47:02,959 --> 02:47:05,240
Speaker 1: like you've got to get permission to do that. But

3076
02:47:05,440 --> 02:47:08,240
Speaker 1: but here's the thing, is I actually if you look

3077
02:47:08,280 --> 02:47:10,520
Speaker 1: at the Montana Access Guide, you look at the Montana

3078
02:47:10,560 --> 02:47:13,160
Speaker 1: Fish Walife from Parks Regulations, it says nothing about this.

3079
02:47:13,280 --> 02:47:16,880
Speaker 1: There's nowhere stated anywhere that I can find because it

3080
02:47:16,920 --> 02:47:19,360
Speaker 1: would be redundant because it's already covered in just the

3081
02:47:19,440 --> 02:47:21,520
Speaker 1: general highway law. Now you've you've got to go in

3082
02:47:21,560 --> 02:47:23,600
Speaker 1: and read statute to find it. And it took me

3083
02:47:24,440 --> 02:47:27,440
Speaker 1: forty minutes to find it. And uh, I don't I

3084
02:47:27,480 --> 02:47:30,600
Speaker 1: mean from what I understand, like I think it's it's

3085
02:47:30,720 --> 02:47:32,320
Speaker 1: I think it's a traffic law first off, not a

3086
02:47:32,400 --> 02:47:35,760
Speaker 1: game violation. And so it's like getting a speeding ticket

3087
02:47:35,920 --> 02:47:40,400
Speaker 1: versus being a poacher. Right, Um, But as as I

3088
02:47:40,480 --> 02:47:43,400
Speaker 1: understand it, like, it's not really all that you know,

3089
02:47:43,640 --> 02:47:46,680
Speaker 1: unless it's like actual sort of no no parking signs

3090
02:47:46,720 --> 02:47:50,440
Speaker 1: along the interstate. It's really not advertised anywhere that you

3091
02:47:50,520 --> 02:47:52,320
Speaker 1: can't do this. And so I've always assumed this look

3092
02:47:52,440 --> 02:47:54,120
Speaker 1: because people do it all the time, and I've never

3093
02:47:54,200 --> 02:47:56,680
Speaker 1: heard of anybody getting cotton. In fact, I actually know

3094
02:47:56,720 --> 02:47:59,640
Speaker 1: of a block management area where a portion of it.

3095
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:01,320
Speaker 1: The only way I know how to get to it

3096
02:48:01,480 --> 02:48:04,800
Speaker 1: is by parking along the interstate UM in Montana, So

3097
02:48:05,000 --> 02:48:06,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of bizarre now that I know this,

3098
02:48:07,400 --> 02:48:11,480
Speaker 1: but that's my understanding of controlled access highways. And I

3099
02:48:11,920 --> 02:48:14,960
Speaker 1: would assume that there are some requirements placed upon the

3100
02:48:15,000 --> 02:48:16,800
Speaker 1: state in order to get federal money that they have to,

3101
02:48:17,080 --> 02:48:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, have these types of rules, but they're different

3102
02:48:19,480 --> 02:48:21,920
Speaker 1: for each state. Okay, now we're gonna move on to

3103
02:48:22,080 --> 02:48:24,680
Speaker 1: the on x TRC report. And I asked the question

3104
02:48:24,840 --> 02:48:29,000
Speaker 1: why was it important to investigate the issue of landlocked

3105
02:48:29,280 --> 02:48:32,400
Speaker 1: state lands in the first place. Here's Eric. Our whole

3106
02:48:32,400 --> 02:48:35,000
Speaker 1: team is passionate about helping people get outside. So it's

3107
02:48:35,040 --> 02:48:37,320
Speaker 1: just like in our DNA. So we look at these

3108
02:48:37,560 --> 02:48:40,240
Speaker 1: landlocked lands and we want at least make the public

3109
02:48:40,280 --> 02:48:42,600
Speaker 1: aware of what's out there, and we do see them

3110
02:48:42,600 --> 02:48:46,440
Speaker 1: as opportunities to help the public get outdoors more so

3111
02:48:46,600 --> 02:48:49,920
Speaker 1: that's really in our DNA and that's why we're interested. Okay,

3112
02:48:50,000 --> 02:48:51,520
Speaker 1: from here, I think it's important to move on to

3113
02:48:51,800 --> 02:48:54,960
Speaker 1: to the next thing. Um, let's get clear on what

3114
02:48:55,160 --> 02:48:59,680
Speaker 1: is meant by landlocked land, Like, what does that look like,

3115
02:49:00,000 --> 02:49:04,959
Speaker 1: what does that mean? How does someone go and determine that, Yes,

3116
02:49:05,080 --> 02:49:09,720
Speaker 1: in fact, a piece of public land is inaccessible or

3117
02:49:09,959 --> 02:49:14,600
Speaker 1: as we keep saying, landlocked. Here's Lisa explaining that and

3118
02:49:14,680 --> 02:49:17,800
Speaker 1: also talking a little bit about how on X obtained

3119
02:49:18,000 --> 02:49:21,960
Speaker 1: and analyzed the necessary data. So there's a lot of

3120
02:49:22,080 --> 02:49:25,360
Speaker 1: different ways to define landlocked. But what we went with

3121
02:49:25,680 --> 02:49:29,760
Speaker 1: for this report was public land that cannot be accessed

3122
02:49:29,840 --> 02:49:34,360
Speaker 1: from a public road or uh cannot be access from

3123
02:49:34,400 --> 02:49:38,000
Speaker 1: an adjoining piece of public land. I mean, even if

3124
02:49:38,000 --> 02:49:41,120
Speaker 1: you are willing to walk in, you walk forever. So

3125
02:49:41,160 --> 02:49:44,080
Speaker 1: if there's a ten acre parcel and there's one road

3126
02:49:44,160 --> 02:49:46,920
Speaker 1: that cuts through just a little corner of it, we

3127
02:49:47,080 --> 02:49:52,520
Speaker 1: consider that entire ten tho acre parcel as being accessible. Um,

3128
02:49:53,200 --> 02:49:57,160
Speaker 1: even if you have to cross topography and rivers. Um.

3129
02:49:57,400 --> 02:50:01,240
Speaker 1: This was just talking about legal access as opposed to

3130
02:50:01,440 --> 02:50:04,320
Speaker 1: logistical within the g i S department. G i S

3131
02:50:04,400 --> 02:50:09,480
Speaker 1: is Geographic information Systems UM or Geographic information science, and

3132
02:50:10,240 --> 02:50:13,240
Speaker 1: basically it's a compilation of data sets that all have

3133
02:50:13,400 --> 02:50:17,520
Speaker 1: a location component to them, and they're all stored into

3134
02:50:18,160 --> 02:50:21,400
Speaker 1: a big database UH, so that you can make maps

3135
02:50:21,680 --> 02:50:25,920
Speaker 1: or you can run different analyzes and understand how maybe

3136
02:50:25,959 --> 02:50:30,000
Speaker 1: one feature on landscape interacts or impacts another type of

3137
02:50:30,040 --> 02:50:33,200
Speaker 1: feature on the landscape. So UM, not only do we

3138
02:50:33,440 --> 02:50:36,480
Speaker 1: take the government lands data sets and the private land

3139
02:50:36,560 --> 02:50:40,000
Speaker 1: data sets and reconcile them with each other, UM, we

3140
02:50:40,240 --> 02:50:44,640
Speaker 1: also are classifying all of the government lands data so

3141
02:50:44,879 --> 02:50:47,120
Speaker 1: that was really key in this analysis as well. So

3142
02:50:47,200 --> 02:50:50,920
Speaker 1: we were able to zero in on all of the

3143
02:50:51,360 --> 02:50:54,960
Speaker 1: lands that had you know, the the state land ownership

3144
02:50:55,080 --> 02:50:58,240
Speaker 1: type attached to them UM, and then basically we were

3145
02:50:58,320 --> 02:51:05,000
Speaker 1: able to compare those against our extensive road database UM

3146
02:51:05,240 --> 02:51:09,800
Speaker 1: and figure out which parcels of state land did not

3147
02:51:10,120 --> 02:51:14,400
Speaker 1: have road access, and each parcel that did not have

3148
02:51:14,600 --> 02:51:18,160
Speaker 1: road access got flagged in a big database and then

3149
02:51:18,920 --> 02:51:22,199
Speaker 1: UM we basically ran through and calculated all those acreages

3150
02:51:22,240 --> 02:51:24,840
Speaker 1: together to get the numbers. The big challenge here is

3151
02:51:25,360 --> 02:51:29,360
Speaker 1: that there is no public versus private road data set

3152
02:51:29,400 --> 02:51:32,400
Speaker 1: available in the United States, and so we did have

3153
02:51:32,600 --> 02:51:35,440
Speaker 1: to kind of come up with our own definition of

3154
02:51:35,480 --> 02:51:37,720
Speaker 1: what a public road is based upon the data that

3155
02:51:38,000 --> 02:51:41,879
Speaker 1: is available. So we said anything at the county level

3156
02:51:42,000 --> 02:51:45,000
Speaker 1: or higher plus certain classifications of four service roads and

3157
02:51:45,040 --> 02:51:49,640
Speaker 1: certain classifications of BLM roads. UM. So there's a lot

3158
02:51:49,760 --> 02:51:52,160
Speaker 1: of areas where there's these two tracks that were like,

3159
02:51:52,800 --> 02:51:55,080
Speaker 1: we don't know, we can't tell if they're open or

3160
02:51:55,120 --> 02:51:58,959
Speaker 1: closed to the public, and so um. After we went

3161
02:51:59,120 --> 02:52:02,680
Speaker 1: through and had results from the federal analysis last year,

3162
02:52:03,560 --> 02:52:05,920
Speaker 1: some folks with t RCP actually went out to some

3163
02:52:06,040 --> 02:52:08,040
Speaker 1: areas where we're like, we don't know, Like we can't

3164
02:52:08,440 --> 02:52:11,360
Speaker 1: really tell in these specific places, like there's two tracks

3165
02:52:11,400 --> 02:52:14,600
Speaker 1: going out to these large areas, but we can't tell

3166
02:52:14,640 --> 02:52:16,000
Speaker 1: if there's a way to get to them. And I

3167
02:52:16,040 --> 02:52:18,280
Speaker 1: would say, what was it in like eighty or ninety

3168
02:52:18,400 --> 02:52:21,680
Speaker 1: percent of those those are the largest ones. So those

3169
02:52:21,680 --> 02:52:24,320
Speaker 1: are like edge cases. I was gonna say, we had,

3170
02:52:24,400 --> 02:52:25,920
Speaker 1: I mean that we were going out to some of

3171
02:52:25,959 --> 02:52:30,280
Speaker 1: the bigger parcels and even flying around on like Google Earth.

3172
02:52:30,560 --> 02:52:32,360
Speaker 1: If you go to street view, you can sort of

3173
02:52:32,440 --> 02:52:34,240
Speaker 1: look at what the road looks like and see if

3174
02:52:34,280 --> 02:52:38,240
Speaker 1: there's a private road sign UM so on X is

3175
02:52:38,320 --> 02:52:40,160
Speaker 1: doing some of that, but we we literally had people

3176
02:52:40,280 --> 02:52:43,760
Speaker 1: driving up to gates and seeing how it was marked.

3177
02:52:44,120 --> 02:52:47,920
Speaker 1: Most of them didn't have we're not public. Yeah, And

3178
02:52:48,080 --> 02:52:50,879
Speaker 1: we also worked with the BLM and Forest Service at

3179
02:52:50,959 --> 02:52:53,400
Speaker 1: the lands and realty level. They actually looked up the

3180
02:52:53,480 --> 02:52:56,279
Speaker 1: records for us well to find pieces that were gating

3181
02:52:56,320 --> 02:52:58,800
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been looking up just to see if there

3182
02:52:58,840 --> 02:53:02,560
Speaker 1: were recorded Eastman's Across because that's one of the funny

3183
02:53:02,600 --> 02:53:05,400
Speaker 1: things is driving around um, especially in the eastern half

3184
02:53:05,440 --> 02:53:06,959
Speaker 1: of this state. In other areas in the west too,

3185
02:53:07,080 --> 02:53:10,400
Speaker 1: is like where you'll have public roads, but ranches will

3186
02:53:10,440 --> 02:53:13,840
Speaker 1: kind of grow up around them, so that when you

3187
02:53:13,879 --> 02:53:15,400
Speaker 1: start feeling like there's no way I can be on

3188
02:53:15,520 --> 02:53:19,960
Speaker 1: this road where you're sort of like five yards off

3189
02:53:20,040 --> 02:53:22,400
Speaker 1: a guy's front step, his barns on one side of

3190
02:53:22,440 --> 02:53:25,080
Speaker 1: the road, his dogs are running around in the road.

3191
02:53:26,280 --> 02:53:29,080
Speaker 1: You can almost look in and they're eating dinner. It's

3192
02:53:29,120 --> 02:53:31,000
Speaker 1: like you're on the two track, but on the map

3193
02:53:31,120 --> 02:53:34,160
Speaker 1: it's like that's a road. And the fact that no

3194
02:53:34,200 --> 02:53:36,400
Speaker 1: one comes out and shoots at you, you realize like, wow,

3195
02:53:36,520 --> 02:53:39,440
Speaker 1: this is like a road. This two track is a

3196
02:53:39,520 --> 02:53:43,600
Speaker 1: public Eastman. Well, part of the problem is that most

3197
02:53:43,959 --> 02:53:47,280
Speaker 1: Eastman files, most Eastman documents are still on paper file.

3198
02:53:47,320 --> 02:53:50,360
Speaker 1: They have been digitized yet that's actually something that we're

3199
02:53:50,360 --> 02:53:53,680
Speaker 1: working on, UM, is to try and get the federal

3200
02:53:53,720 --> 02:53:58,720
Speaker 1: agencies the resources they need to turn Eastman recorded Eastmans

3201
02:53:58,760 --> 02:54:01,400
Speaker 1: that are still in file cabinet at local ranger districts

3202
02:54:01,840 --> 02:54:03,920
Speaker 1: actually into a computer system and so you can just

3203
02:54:04,480 --> 02:54:06,280
Speaker 1: click on them and it says this is a public

3204
02:54:06,400 --> 02:54:09,480
Speaker 1: road or it's not. UM. It was obviously the county side,

3205
02:54:09,520 --> 02:54:12,360
Speaker 1: which is a whole another nuts crack. But UM, the

3206
02:54:12,440 --> 02:54:17,080
Speaker 1: Forest Service nationally estimates it has thirty seven thousand easements

3207
02:54:17,440 --> 02:54:18,920
Speaker 1: UM some of the road he has sum or not,

3208
02:54:19,040 --> 02:54:22,240
Speaker 1: and only five thousand of them have been digitized. So

3209
02:54:23,040 --> 02:54:24,920
Speaker 1: the rest of them are sitting in file cabinets and

3210
02:54:25,040 --> 02:54:28,640
Speaker 1: local offices and hoping that the office doesn't burn down UM,

3211
02:54:28,760 --> 02:54:30,920
Speaker 1: which would be terrible if something like that to occur.

3212
02:54:31,120 --> 02:54:35,440
Speaker 1: But that's a real challenge with this type of work UM,

3213
02:54:35,720 --> 02:54:36,840
Speaker 1: and so we've had to do a lot of the

3214
02:54:36,840 --> 02:54:38,920
Speaker 1: work ourselves by actually trying to run down whether or

3215
02:54:38,959 --> 02:54:41,880
Speaker 1: not some of these places are open or closed. And

3216
02:54:41,959 --> 02:54:44,720
Speaker 1: again here's eric We're unique in that fact that we

3217
02:54:44,840 --> 02:54:47,240
Speaker 1: brought the public land data together in the private land data,

3218
02:54:47,240 --> 02:54:50,560
Speaker 1: and we've made this more accurate mesh. You can imagine

3219
02:54:50,560 --> 02:54:53,600
Speaker 1: a fabric of these parcels in the US. Really only

3220
02:54:53,640 --> 02:54:57,080
Speaker 1: one who has that complete meshed network, which is key

3221
02:54:57,200 --> 02:54:59,720
Speaker 1: to doing that analysis when you're looking having an algorithm

3222
02:54:59,760 --> 02:55:02,520
Speaker 1: look the corners and everything we're cross over. So we've

3223
02:55:02,560 --> 02:55:04,840
Speaker 1: got done that for public lands, and we've done that

3224
02:55:04,959 --> 02:55:07,240
Speaker 1: for roads. So the fact that we've brought all the

3225
02:55:07,320 --> 02:55:10,880
Speaker 1: roads data together and the landownership data together uniquely positions

3226
02:55:10,959 --> 02:55:13,240
Speaker 1: us to be able to do this. And this is

3227
02:55:13,640 --> 02:55:17,560
Speaker 1: Randall Williams chiming in. I think there's some people who

3228
02:55:17,680 --> 02:55:21,080
Speaker 1: probably have exclusive access to these lands, a bunch of

3229
02:55:21,120 --> 02:55:24,280
Speaker 1: people because this, But there's also some people that are

3230
02:55:24,320 --> 02:55:25,960
Speaker 1: great and they allow the public in and so it

3231
02:55:26,040 --> 02:55:28,040
Speaker 1: all depends on the let me let me rephrase it.

3232
02:55:28,560 --> 02:55:30,480
Speaker 1: I would be if I lived on the edge of

3233
02:55:30,520 --> 02:55:34,280
Speaker 1: that place, I would be like, um, I'd be sweating it.

3234
02:55:35,959 --> 02:55:37,360
Speaker 1: I would kind of want I'd be like, man, I

3235
02:55:37,400 --> 02:55:40,000
Speaker 1: hope people don't get worked up about how I got

3236
02:55:40,040 --> 02:55:44,160
Speaker 1: all this land. It's not mine. Personally. I think you'd

3237
02:55:44,200 --> 02:55:47,240
Speaker 1: be arranging for when you died that your your land

3238
02:55:47,320 --> 02:55:49,840
Speaker 1: would go to the public absolutely once I'm dead, I

3239
02:55:49,879 --> 02:55:53,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't care. I wouldn't care anymore. As it turns out,

3240
02:55:53,320 --> 02:55:58,920
Speaker 1: the volume of landlocked state public lands is pretty shocking.

3241
02:55:59,320 --> 02:56:02,600
Speaker 1: Joel and Lee to describe the scope and distribution of

3242
02:56:02,720 --> 02:56:07,000
Speaker 1: that western land as in exactly where is it and

3243
02:56:07,160 --> 02:56:09,840
Speaker 1: how much is it? I actually am a bit shocked

3244
02:56:10,040 --> 02:56:13,680
Speaker 1: about the fact that there's only forty nine. We looked

3245
02:56:13,680 --> 02:56:15,880
Speaker 1: at the eleven western states this time. So just the

3246
02:56:15,959 --> 02:56:19,000
Speaker 1: public land states, um, and why are they called the

3247
02:56:19,080 --> 02:56:21,360
Speaker 1: public lands because they're the states in the West that

3248
02:56:21,440 --> 02:56:26,400
Speaker 1: have the most public land and so um, you know, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado,

3249
02:56:26,600 --> 02:56:32,400
Speaker 1: New Mexico, Arizona, um Idaho, Nevada, California, organ in Washington

3250
02:56:32,720 --> 02:56:36,400
Speaker 1: and what state am I miss in like Utah, um

3251
02:56:36,640 --> 02:56:39,040
Speaker 1: and so those those lands generally have just sort of

3252
02:56:39,080 --> 02:56:42,240
Speaker 1: a higher proportion of federal public lands than anywhere else

3253
02:56:42,360 --> 02:56:45,160
Speaker 1: in the country outside of Alaska, which is its own beast.

3254
02:56:45,720 --> 02:56:48,520
Speaker 1: It's interesting. So even the Dakotas don't come anywhere close

3255
02:56:48,600 --> 02:56:52,120
Speaker 1: to the Dakotas have quite a bit of public land

3256
02:56:52,160 --> 02:56:57,600
Speaker 1: on that western edge where there touching the public land states,

3257
02:56:57,800 --> 02:57:00,160
Speaker 1: But the eastern side of the coatas are more are

3258
02:57:00,480 --> 02:57:03,360
Speaker 1: sort of that those Great Plains type states where it's

3259
02:57:03,400 --> 02:57:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, corn, soybeans. Most things are privatized, um, which

3260
02:57:07,080 --> 02:57:08,360
Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with just how

3261
02:57:08,440 --> 02:57:10,480
Speaker 1: good a farm land it is. And so it went

3262
02:57:10,520 --> 02:57:14,320
Speaker 1: into private lands and stayed there, private hands and stayed there. Um.

3263
02:57:14,640 --> 02:57:17,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, so there's only forty nine million

3264
02:57:17,640 --> 02:57:22,480
Speaker 1: acres of state land and there's here's the number, six

3265
02:57:22,560 --> 02:57:26,320
Speaker 1: point three five million acres of landlocked state lands across

3266
02:57:26,360 --> 02:57:29,920
Speaker 1: these eleven Western states. Um, how many total lakers of

3267
02:57:29,959 --> 02:57:32,360
Speaker 1: state land are there in these eleven Western states? There's

3268
02:57:32,400 --> 02:57:37,360
Speaker 1: forty nine million, and so six point three five million

3269
02:57:37,520 --> 02:57:42,520
Speaker 1: of those. So it's wasn't it yet? Six point three

3270
02:57:42,640 --> 02:57:44,879
Speaker 1: nine million acres? We can't get to six point three

3271
02:57:44,959 --> 02:57:47,480
Speaker 1: five three five million acres? We can't get that's right?

3272
02:57:47,640 --> 02:57:51,160
Speaker 1: And we found four of those states have over a

3273
02:57:51,280 --> 02:57:57,080
Speaker 1: million acres. And those are Montana again, which has one

3274
02:57:57,160 --> 02:58:00,600
Speaker 1: and a half million, really one point five million acres

3275
02:58:00,640 --> 02:58:02,640
Speaker 1: of inaccessible state that's at least do you want to

3276
02:58:02,680 --> 02:58:07,520
Speaker 1: run through this? Sure? So Arizona has one point three,

3277
02:58:07,720 --> 02:58:11,680
Speaker 1: Montana has one point five, uh, New Mexico one point

3278
02:58:11,760 --> 02:58:15,320
Speaker 1: three again, and Wyoming one point one million acres. Those

3279
02:58:15,320 --> 02:58:19,680
Speaker 1: are all the plus million states. Yeah exactly. Okay, so

3280
02:58:20,200 --> 02:58:22,560
Speaker 1: we know where these landlocked state lands are and we

3281
02:58:22,640 --> 02:58:25,000
Speaker 1: know how much of it there is, but you might

3282
02:58:25,040 --> 02:58:27,240
Speaker 1: be asking these questions next, like how did this come

3283
02:58:27,280 --> 02:58:30,920
Speaker 1: to be? What are state lands? How did states get land,

3284
02:58:31,400 --> 02:58:34,520
Speaker 1: what do they have the land for, and in some cases,

3285
02:58:34,600 --> 02:58:37,000
Speaker 1: what the hell happened to all that land. It all

3286
02:58:37,080 --> 02:58:42,240
Speaker 1: started back in seve um with the General Land Ordinance,

3287
02:58:42,360 --> 02:58:44,959
Speaker 1: which was a law passed that established the grid system.

3288
02:58:45,040 --> 02:58:48,800
Speaker 1: And so township UM six by six square miles is

3289
02:58:48,920 --> 02:58:53,039
Speaker 1: right square miles, Yeah, but six six miles by six

3290
02:58:53,160 --> 02:58:57,400
Speaker 1: miles um individual sections thirty six seven within each township.

3291
02:58:57,560 --> 02:58:59,960
Speaker 1: So that basically the whole western side of the country

3292
02:59:00,000 --> 02:59:04,480
Speaker 1: three um was divided up into these this grid system

3293
02:59:05,320 --> 02:59:08,640
Speaker 1: UM and a lot of other states as well. Yeah,

3294
02:59:08,720 --> 02:59:12,320
Speaker 1: but it's I mean, so I started has a township

3295
02:59:12,400 --> 02:59:14,400
Speaker 1: like a township system that was the West back in

3296
02:59:14,440 --> 02:59:16,440
Speaker 1: the day. Yeah, they have a township system and they

3297
02:59:16,480 --> 02:59:18,920
Speaker 1: have and they have like school trust lands that sit

3298
02:59:19,040 --> 02:59:22,160
Speaker 1: on that township system. It's even like a specified number.

3299
02:59:22,560 --> 02:59:25,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's the the old Northwest Territory. So it's

3300
02:59:25,920 --> 02:59:29,040
Speaker 1: you know, how do you bring order and pose order

3301
02:59:29,160 --> 02:59:31,600
Speaker 1: on a territory landscape that you really don't have any

3302
02:59:32,840 --> 02:59:37,880
Speaker 1: understanding of familiarity with. UM. So yeah, it kind of

3303
02:59:38,000 --> 02:59:40,480
Speaker 1: rolls westward as the country does, and it's what makes

3304
02:59:40,560 --> 02:59:44,440
Speaker 1: corner crossing so fun to talk about. Yeah. UM. But

3305
02:59:44,760 --> 02:59:47,359
Speaker 1: so it started in eighteen o three, was the first state, Ohio,

3306
02:59:47,680 --> 02:59:49,840
Speaker 1: to get a land grant. And so what the federal

3307
02:59:49,879 --> 02:59:53,480
Speaker 1: government did is they passed these enabling acts UM where

3308
02:59:53,480 --> 02:59:58,320
Speaker 1: they actually gave individual states UM starting with just one

3309
02:59:58,400 --> 03:00:01,760
Speaker 1: section per township, so one out every thirty six acres

3310
03:00:01,879 --> 03:00:05,040
Speaker 1: in that state, UM would get a section, starting with

3311
03:00:05,080 --> 03:00:08,480
Speaker 1: Ohio in eighteen o three. And so the Feds say, like,

3312
03:00:08,520 --> 03:00:10,480
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna become a state. You're like a

3313
03:00:10,520 --> 03:00:13,440
Speaker 1: little state, You're Ohio. Now you're gonna become a state,

3314
03:00:13,520 --> 03:00:18,119
Speaker 1: and we're going to gift to you the state one

3315
03:00:18,320 --> 03:00:22,640
Speaker 1: out of every thirty six square miles that you own.

3316
03:00:22,760 --> 03:00:26,200
Speaker 1: That's right, That's how it started, and for the purpose

3317
03:00:26,320 --> 03:00:33,039
Speaker 1: of supporting public institutions, generally schools. And so they started

3318
03:00:33,080 --> 03:00:36,160
Speaker 1: with Ohio and there's I think twenty nine states got

3319
03:00:37,240 --> 03:00:42,039
Speaker 1: their lands this way, and early on there were very

3320
03:00:42,080 --> 03:00:44,920
Speaker 1: few restrictions on how that money would be used and

3321
03:00:45,120 --> 03:00:48,000
Speaker 1: so most of the states just sort of sold off

3322
03:00:48,080 --> 03:00:51,400
Speaker 1: the lands really states before in eighteen fifty, But was

3323
03:00:51,480 --> 03:00:53,480
Speaker 1: that the intent when they gave him the land? Was

3324
03:00:53,520 --> 03:00:56,280
Speaker 1: the intent like here go sell it? Well intent think

3325
03:00:56,360 --> 03:01:00,200
Speaker 1: the intent evolved. But there's some states like Mississippi that

3326
03:01:00,320 --> 03:01:02,120
Speaker 1: held on to their state lands. I guess sort of

3327
03:01:02,440 --> 03:01:04,240
Speaker 1: early on, like we're gonna hold onto these and we're

3328
03:01:04,240 --> 03:01:06,080
Speaker 1: going to generate revenue over the long term. And they

3329
03:01:06,080 --> 03:01:07,920
Speaker 1: actually had a commitment to that. They played the smart

3330
03:01:08,000 --> 03:01:10,400
Speaker 1: they played the smart thing, and like Ohio has, from

3331
03:01:10,440 --> 03:01:13,720
Speaker 1: what I can tell, nothing left um. At least there's

3332
03:01:13,760 --> 03:01:15,760
Speaker 1: not enough acres there that I can find any record

3333
03:01:15,800 --> 03:01:19,480
Speaker 1: of there being anything left UM. And a lot of

3334
03:01:19,560 --> 03:01:21,600
Speaker 1: states just went and sold it along the way, however,

3335
03:01:22,040 --> 03:01:23,800
Speaker 1: and as a result of that, they were sort of

3336
03:01:23,879 --> 03:01:27,800
Speaker 1: misusing the money. So here's an example Alabama, UM, you know,

3337
03:01:28,080 --> 03:01:31,760
Speaker 1: near Mississippi. Mississippi held onto their lands. Alabama sold off

3338
03:01:31,800 --> 03:01:35,120
Speaker 1: their lands and like they invested in stuff. Really like

3339
03:01:35,920 --> 03:01:37,400
Speaker 1: you find that there's sort of a theme and a

3340
03:01:37,520 --> 03:01:40,680
Speaker 1: state that's right, even like these neighboring states that two

3341
03:01:40,720 --> 03:01:42,400
Speaker 1: sort of different approaches. And we find that in the

3342
03:01:42,480 --> 03:01:46,040
Speaker 1: West today, and we'll get into that. Um, but so

3343
03:01:46,160 --> 03:01:48,640
Speaker 1: the state of Alabama like invest they sold off a

3344
03:01:48,680 --> 03:01:51,240
Speaker 1: bunch of their lands. They invested the money and stuff

3345
03:01:51,320 --> 03:01:54,440
Speaker 1: that failed, and so they had basically nothing to show

3346
03:01:54,560 --> 03:01:57,280
Speaker 1: for it. But also what they would do in Alabama

3347
03:01:57,800 --> 03:02:00,320
Speaker 1: is um, so if you lived within the town ship

3348
03:02:01,120 --> 03:02:03,720
Speaker 1: where that section was, you were the ones that decided

3349
03:02:03,720 --> 03:02:06,280
Speaker 1: whether or not to be sold. And so, which is

3350
03:02:06,400 --> 03:02:09,080
Speaker 1: totally corrupt, right you have like does my neighbor sell

3351
03:02:09,120 --> 03:02:11,840
Speaker 1: their property or not? Yes, so I can buy it, um.

3352
03:02:12,400 --> 03:02:14,400
Speaker 1: But then they also would give out that's like the

3353
03:02:14,720 --> 03:02:17,200
Speaker 1: that's like where local control kind of goes a little off, now,

3354
03:02:17,680 --> 03:02:20,280
Speaker 1: that's right. And they'd also give out personal loans. They

3355
03:02:20,320 --> 03:02:22,520
Speaker 1: had a school fund that they created, but it's kind

3356
03:02:22,520 --> 03:02:24,880
Speaker 1: of like an endowment with the idea that the interest

3357
03:02:24,959 --> 03:02:28,320
Speaker 1: would go towards um those schools. And they give out

3358
03:02:28,400 --> 03:02:31,560
Speaker 1: personal loans to people in Alabama with never actually make

3359
03:02:31,680 --> 03:02:34,520
Speaker 1: them pay them back. Um. And then they also did

3360
03:02:34,560 --> 03:02:37,800
Speaker 1: like nine year leases and so if you were had

3361
03:02:37,840 --> 03:02:39,080
Speaker 1: a grazing lease or whatever, you can do it for

3362
03:02:39,160 --> 03:02:41,560
Speaker 1: ninety nine years and probably I don't know if the

3363
03:02:41,680 --> 03:02:43,800
Speaker 1: terms were fixed, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

3364
03:02:43,879 --> 03:02:46,920
Speaker 1: And so like in the eighteen forties, they were making

3365
03:02:47,640 --> 03:02:50,640
Speaker 1: year leases that didn't expire until the nineteen forties, which

3366
03:02:50,840 --> 03:02:53,000
Speaker 1: is a long time, right, And so that's sort of

3367
03:02:53,040 --> 03:02:56,240
Speaker 1: an example of how states sort of got rid of

3368
03:02:56,280 --> 03:02:59,160
Speaker 1: their lands UM. And then in the West, so where

3369
03:02:59,200 --> 03:03:04,280
Speaker 1: this report is the eleven Western states UM. Starting well,

3370
03:03:04,320 --> 03:03:06,959
Speaker 1: California is the first Western state to get become a state,

3371
03:03:07,000 --> 03:03:09,840
Speaker 1: and they actually got section sixteen again. But after that

3372
03:03:10,120 --> 03:03:12,800
Speaker 1: they started getting sections sixteen and thirty six, and so

3373
03:03:12,879 --> 03:03:16,720
Speaker 1: they got two square miles per township UM. And so

3374
03:03:16,959 --> 03:03:21,600
Speaker 1: like Oregon, Montana, Idaho UM, a number of states got

3375
03:03:21,920 --> 03:03:24,640
Speaker 1: two sections per township. And then at the very end

3376
03:03:24,680 --> 03:03:27,760
Speaker 1: they got even more generous and they gave Utah, Arizona,

3377
03:03:27,840 --> 03:03:32,680
Speaker 1: New Mexico four sections. So how does this system work

3378
03:03:32,800 --> 03:03:37,840
Speaker 1: out If there's already someone occupying the designated land that's

3379
03:03:37,879 --> 03:03:41,080
Speaker 1: supposed to go to the state, what does the state do?

3380
03:03:41,280 --> 03:03:45,160
Speaker 1: Then they had this thing called in lieu selections, And

3381
03:03:45,320 --> 03:03:48,320
Speaker 1: so if it was down in New Mexico, right, which

3382
03:03:48,360 --> 03:03:50,320
Speaker 1: is a very late state to become a part of

3383
03:03:50,400 --> 03:03:52,520
Speaker 1: the Union, if it was you know, let's see a

3384
03:03:52,560 --> 03:03:55,600
Speaker 1: Mexican land grant for example, or an Indian reservation, or

3385
03:03:55,640 --> 03:03:58,120
Speaker 1: it was already private um. They were not able to

3386
03:03:58,160 --> 03:04:00,080
Speaker 1: select those lands that then were able to select. They

3387
03:04:00,120 --> 03:04:02,440
Speaker 1: were not they were not giving those um In that

3388
03:04:02,560 --> 03:04:05,039
Speaker 1: case it was six sixteen, thirty two, and thirty six

3389
03:04:05,120 --> 03:04:07,040
Speaker 1: and those later ones they got four those four sections

3390
03:04:07,200 --> 03:04:09,240
Speaker 1: really like the deal kept getting better, it keep getting

3391
03:04:09,240 --> 03:04:11,160
Speaker 1: met it, but they were still like spaced apart, and

3392
03:04:11,280 --> 03:04:14,200
Speaker 1: so they're all separated, which is still creates the same

3393
03:04:14,320 --> 03:04:17,160
Speaker 1: arbitrary it scattered pick does. But then they were able

3394
03:04:17,200 --> 03:04:20,920
Speaker 1: to correct select these in lieu of areas. And that's

3395
03:04:20,959 --> 03:04:24,200
Speaker 1: where we get some of these big chunks of landlocked land.

3396
03:04:24,240 --> 03:04:26,400
Speaker 1: And so they'd be like, well, we can't have any

3397
03:04:26,440 --> 03:04:29,560
Speaker 1: of there's like this big you know, eight acre land

3398
03:04:29,600 --> 03:04:32,160
Speaker 1: grand or whatever. We can't have any of those lands

3399
03:04:32,200 --> 03:04:34,480
Speaker 1: inside of there. And so they go select some really

3400
03:04:34,520 --> 03:04:36,560
Speaker 1: big areas somewhere else. And then they might be like that,

3401
03:04:36,600 --> 03:04:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take all four of my my sections, my

3402
03:04:39,160 --> 03:04:41,160
Speaker 1: square miles, I want them all together. That's right. So

3403
03:04:41,200 --> 03:04:44,039
Speaker 1: I got a sweet little chunk, were thirty sections together

3404
03:04:44,160 --> 03:04:46,040
Speaker 1: or whatever, And and so you get some really some

3405
03:04:46,160 --> 03:04:49,320
Speaker 1: significant holdings. Maybe not, And so that's that's going to

3406
03:04:49,400 --> 03:04:51,760
Speaker 1: how that worked, which has left as legacy of all

3407
03:04:51,800 --> 03:04:57,760
Speaker 1: these isolated parcels um and then states took to either

3408
03:04:57,879 --> 03:05:00,800
Speaker 1: hung on them or sold them off. That's right. Now

3409
03:05:00,840 --> 03:05:03,000
Speaker 1: we'll get into something you might have heard about, which

3410
03:05:03,120 --> 03:05:08,680
Speaker 1: is the political and social push to transfer federally managed

3411
03:05:08,800 --> 03:05:12,600
Speaker 1: lands over to the states. Why is that idea so

3412
03:05:13,080 --> 03:05:18,480
Speaker 1: distasteful to so many hunters, anglers and conservationists, Like what

3413
03:05:18,560 --> 03:05:21,199
Speaker 1: are they so afraid of? Basically, there's a whole idea

3414
03:05:21,280 --> 03:05:23,640
Speaker 1: that the federal government should transfer their lands to the states. Right,

3415
03:05:23,640 --> 03:05:25,080
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, there was a big push

3416
03:05:25,160 --> 03:05:27,440
Speaker 1: for it coming out of Utah. It comes up now

3417
03:05:27,520 --> 03:05:34,280
Speaker 1: and then yeah, and and and um and and a

3418
03:05:34,360 --> 03:05:36,280
Speaker 1: lot of us pointing to the history of state lands

3419
03:05:36,320 --> 03:05:38,200
Speaker 1: for why that's the terrible idea, because some states have

3420
03:05:38,320 --> 03:05:42,600
Speaker 1: been really bad about selling their lands and it was

3421
03:05:42,640 --> 03:05:44,840
Speaker 1: such a bad there was such a bad history with it.

3422
03:05:44,959 --> 03:05:49,160
Speaker 1: That's the federal government actually started to impose restrictions on

3423
03:05:49,360 --> 03:05:52,720
Speaker 1: land sales towards the end of westward expansion because the

3424
03:05:52,800 --> 03:05:56,880
Speaker 1: system was being so abused by the Western states as

3425
03:05:56,920 --> 03:06:00,200
Speaker 1: part of the terms of the land grant. That's right, Yeah, yeah,

3426
03:06:00,200 --> 03:06:02,240
Speaker 1: I can see to be like if you left your

3427
03:06:02,879 --> 03:06:05,800
Speaker 1: like you have like a wayward kid and you leave him.

3428
03:06:06,080 --> 03:06:08,120
Speaker 1: That's why we have trust trust fund kids. Yeah, I

3429
03:06:08,120 --> 03:06:09,840
Speaker 1: mean this is like they couldn't trust the kids to

3430
03:06:09,840 --> 03:06:11,480
Speaker 1: give them all the money. Well, this is like because

3431
03:06:11,520 --> 03:06:13,320
Speaker 1: you'll just blow it if you're give them a little

3432
03:06:13,320 --> 03:06:15,720
Speaker 1: to your kids graduating from high school, right and you

3433
03:06:16,040 --> 03:06:17,920
Speaker 1: you like give him a used car or something to

3434
03:06:17,959 --> 03:06:20,040
Speaker 1: get started. And that's sort of how I mean. The

3435
03:06:20,120 --> 03:06:23,560
Speaker 1: intention of it is to bring these other states up. Uh,

3436
03:06:24,240 --> 03:06:26,880
Speaker 1: what's your equal footing? Equal footing, bring them up on

3437
03:06:26,959 --> 03:06:31,800
Speaker 1: equal footing with the current existing states. So they had

3438
03:06:31,800 --> 03:06:33,920
Speaker 1: to treat like children, but some of those kids, yeah,

3439
03:06:34,080 --> 03:06:35,920
Speaker 1: and so like here's you know, so it's so you're

3440
03:06:35,959 --> 03:06:38,640
Speaker 1: not it's sort of to break that dependency on the

3441
03:06:38,680 --> 03:06:42,320
Speaker 1: federal government for public services, and also not to put

3442
03:06:42,360 --> 03:06:45,200
Speaker 1: them at a disadvantage with the thirteen colonies, plus the

3443
03:06:45,280 --> 03:06:48,560
Speaker 1: three states that had already and become states, Like they

3444
03:06:48,640 --> 03:06:52,240
Speaker 1: already had institutions in place, and so you know New

3445
03:06:52,360 --> 03:06:54,680
Speaker 1: York or Massachusetts for example, they've been around a while,

3446
03:06:54,720 --> 03:06:57,000
Speaker 1: they had institutions, and so when they're creating these new states,

3447
03:06:57,400 --> 03:06:59,320
Speaker 1: they didn't want them to be at such a disadvantage

3448
03:06:59,400 --> 03:07:01,680
Speaker 1: that they created this thing called the equal footing doctrine,

3449
03:07:01,720 --> 03:07:03,000
Speaker 1: and this was part of it where they gave him

3450
03:07:03,040 --> 03:07:06,360
Speaker 1: these these these state lands, these trust lands. At the

3451
03:07:06,400 --> 03:07:09,200
Speaker 1: time they were just called school lands, um with the

3452
03:07:09,280 --> 03:07:11,400
Speaker 1: thinking that they could raise money off of those too,

3453
03:07:11,480 --> 03:07:13,760
Speaker 1: to establish these institutions that would put them on equal

3454
03:07:13,800 --> 03:07:16,480
Speaker 1: footing with the early States. When we were young, we

3455
03:07:16,560 --> 03:07:19,040
Speaker 1: would use we would go down I didn't have a

3456
03:07:19,120 --> 03:07:21,320
Speaker 1: Platt book, but you could go down to the township

3457
03:07:21,440 --> 03:07:26,720
Speaker 1: office in photo copy the Plat books at the township's

3458
03:07:26,760 --> 03:07:28,600
Speaker 1: office to find out who own what. Then you'd go

3459
03:07:28,879 --> 03:07:31,440
Speaker 1: talking to the column or whatever and ours would even

3460
03:07:31,520 --> 03:07:34,920
Speaker 1: our ours were labeled on these maps just school trust

3461
03:07:35,040 --> 03:07:37,800
Speaker 1: land in Michigan, and it had like a different color

3462
03:07:37,840 --> 03:07:40,640
Speaker 1: in Michigan has some It is interesting to see how

3463
03:07:41,040 --> 03:07:44,080
Speaker 1: states actually learned from other states over time their mistakes.

3464
03:07:44,720 --> 03:07:47,840
Speaker 1: And you can tell that Congress obviously learned and they

3465
03:07:47,879 --> 03:07:51,160
Speaker 1: started making these rules as it went on. So give

3466
03:07:51,200 --> 03:07:53,240
Speaker 1: it to you, but you can't just run out and

3467
03:07:53,280 --> 03:07:55,400
Speaker 1: sell it. It's like after the first three kids sell

3468
03:07:55,480 --> 03:07:57,760
Speaker 1: those used cars and just blow it on booze and

3469
03:07:58,200 --> 03:08:02,080
Speaker 1: whatever else. You know. They could sell it, but they

3470
03:08:02,320 --> 03:08:05,040
Speaker 1: put conditions around the sale and so that they had

3471
03:08:05,040 --> 03:08:06,840
Speaker 1: to have a permanent fund, and then only the interest

3472
03:08:06,920 --> 03:08:10,200
Speaker 1: from that permanent fund could be used to support the schools.

3473
03:08:10,200 --> 03:08:13,440
Speaker 1: And they also set minimum sale prices so much like

3474
03:08:13,480 --> 03:08:15,800
Speaker 1: trust fund killing. So they were these states were like

3475
03:08:15,879 --> 03:08:18,440
Speaker 1: selling these things to their buddies, you know, for nothing,

3476
03:08:19,200 --> 03:08:22,119
Speaker 1: and and so then they you know, they set minimum

3477
03:08:22,160 --> 03:08:24,360
Speaker 1: prices to make it so they wouldn't you know, they

3478
03:08:24,400 --> 03:08:27,199
Speaker 1: wouldn't have the incentive to do that. Okay, So here's

3479
03:08:27,200 --> 03:08:31,000
Speaker 1: what's next. The crew at on X and t RCP,

3480
03:08:31,160 --> 03:08:33,600
Speaker 1: they're not really comfortable and it's not really their job

3481
03:08:33,800 --> 03:08:36,360
Speaker 1: to sort of like, uh, talk about who should be

3482
03:08:36,400 --> 03:08:39,280
Speaker 1: ashamed of themselves and who historically did a good job

3483
03:08:39,400 --> 03:08:41,520
Speaker 1: and who did a bad job through here to help.

3484
03:08:41,640 --> 03:08:44,000
Speaker 1: But you might ask who are the good apples? I mean,

3485
03:08:44,480 --> 03:08:47,600
Speaker 1: which states do a good job of retaining their lands

3486
03:08:47,640 --> 03:08:50,880
Speaker 1: in a way that serves the public, or to do

3487
03:08:51,000 --> 03:08:55,680
Speaker 1: a good job of managing access on their lands. State

3488
03:08:55,760 --> 03:08:58,680
Speaker 1: trust lands were given to these states to generate revenue

3489
03:08:59,040 --> 03:09:03,000
Speaker 1: for beneficiary, okay, And so they're not multiple use lands.

3490
03:09:03,040 --> 03:09:05,760
Speaker 1: They're not like national forest lands or BLM lands where

3491
03:09:06,520 --> 03:09:11,959
Speaker 1: wildlife and recreation are supposed to have equal consideration with development.

3492
03:09:12,000 --> 03:09:13,600
Speaker 1: And so you could actually say we're not going to

3493
03:09:13,760 --> 03:09:17,160
Speaker 1: develop a lot of these lands because of these other values.

3494
03:09:17,200 --> 03:09:19,360
Speaker 1: That's not how trust lands are managed. They do need

3495
03:09:19,400 --> 03:09:26,040
Speaker 1: to generate profit. However, some states have decided most states

3496
03:09:26,120 --> 03:09:28,640
Speaker 1: in the West, actually almost all states in the West

3497
03:09:29,080 --> 03:09:34,760
Speaker 1: have decided that recreation UM can be a part of

3498
03:09:35,520 --> 03:09:39,320
Speaker 1: that management approach for generating profit or it's compatle compatible

3499
03:09:39,600 --> 03:09:42,120
Speaker 1: with the idea that these lands that be managed to

3500
03:09:42,160 --> 03:09:44,440
Speaker 1: generate profit. Right, and so the idea that the public

3501
03:09:44,520 --> 03:09:46,240
Speaker 1: be a part of it, that they serve some sort

3502
03:09:46,240 --> 03:09:49,200
Speaker 1: of larger public good is compatible with the idea that

3503
03:09:49,280 --> 03:09:52,000
Speaker 1: these lands generate profit. There's another side to it, which

3504
03:09:52,040 --> 03:09:54,880
Speaker 1: is a much more sort of dollars and cents and

3505
03:09:55,520 --> 03:09:59,480
Speaker 1: you know, the state because it is considered more of

3506
03:10:00,480 --> 03:10:03,760
Speaker 1: something they have to deal with. And I think when

3507
03:10:03,800 --> 03:10:07,360
Speaker 1: you look at if a state um is doing a

3508
03:10:07,440 --> 03:10:10,600
Speaker 1: really good job from the perspective of hunters and anglers

3509
03:10:11,160 --> 03:10:14,720
Speaker 1: in terms of how they manage their state trust slans UM,

3510
03:10:15,120 --> 03:10:16,400
Speaker 1: the ones to do a really good job have more

3511
03:10:16,400 --> 03:10:20,800
Speaker 1: of a welcome at versus um a you can't welcome

3512
03:10:20,840 --> 03:10:23,039
Speaker 1: at versus you can't find anything about it, or it's

3513
03:10:23,040 --> 03:10:25,680
Speaker 1: a no trespassing sign. And a couple of states that

3514
03:10:25,720 --> 03:10:29,440
Speaker 1: have done a really good job. UM our Montana for example,

3515
03:10:29,760 --> 03:10:33,160
Speaker 1: where UM in the state, nearly all the lands are

3516
03:10:33,240 --> 03:10:36,640
Speaker 1: open and available for the public. UM. They have some

3517
03:10:36,760 --> 03:10:39,520
Speaker 1: basic rules about you can't shoot within a quarter mile

3518
03:10:39,600 --> 03:10:43,200
Speaker 1: of an occupied structure. UM. You know, you can only

3519
03:10:43,320 --> 03:10:46,640
Speaker 1: drive on routes that are open, and things like that. UM.

3520
03:10:46,840 --> 03:10:50,280
Speaker 1: And Montana Fishwife and Parks. UM. When you buy your

3521
03:10:50,640 --> 03:10:53,160
Speaker 1: conservation license to hunt for hunting and fishing, you spend

3522
03:10:53,200 --> 03:10:55,680
Speaker 1: two dollars in the state of Montana, and that money

3523
03:10:55,879 --> 03:10:58,840
Speaker 1: goes to support the schools in the state. They generate

3524
03:10:59,040 --> 03:11:01,960
Speaker 1: about a million dollars a year through that UM and

3525
03:11:02,040 --> 03:11:05,240
Speaker 1: and and as a result, it's actually benefit benefiting those

3526
03:11:05,320 --> 03:11:09,080
Speaker 1: schools UM in a way that also supports public recreation.

3527
03:11:09,240 --> 03:11:12,280
Speaker 1: And also the state of Montana has been great in

3528
03:11:12,360 --> 03:11:15,840
Speaker 1: the fact that I'm talking about landlocked lands. You know,

3529
03:11:15,959 --> 03:11:19,400
Speaker 1: they're being about a million and a half federal landlocked

3530
03:11:19,480 --> 03:11:21,640
Speaker 1: lands and a million and a half state landlocked lands

3531
03:11:21,800 --> 03:11:24,880
Speaker 1: in the state of Montana. UM. The state has actually

3532
03:11:24,879 --> 03:11:28,959
Speaker 1: created programs. UM. There's one called the mt Plan, which

3533
03:11:29,040 --> 03:11:31,920
Speaker 1: actually is a grants program where they can give out

3534
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:34,320
Speaker 1: grants to create easements across private land that would open

3535
03:11:34,400 --> 03:11:37,840
Speaker 1: up these public lands. UM. Montana Fish Wife and Parks

3536
03:11:37,879 --> 03:11:40,160
Speaker 1: has a couple of programs. One again is a brand

3537
03:11:40,200 --> 03:11:43,240
Speaker 1: new one they just passed UM that again would enable

3538
03:11:43,280 --> 03:11:45,480
Speaker 1: the state to spend money on establishing easements. Another one

3539
03:11:45,480 --> 03:11:48,560
Speaker 1: who provide tax incentives for landowners who allow the public

3540
03:11:48,600 --> 03:11:51,920
Speaker 1: across their private land to access these state lands. And also, yeah,

3541
03:11:52,240 --> 03:11:54,400
Speaker 1: it's really cool stuff and this is something that's bipartisan's

3542
03:11:54,400 --> 03:11:56,920
Speaker 1: coming out of the legislature. Montana's is just sort of

3543
03:11:56,920 --> 03:12:00,800
Speaker 1: a shining example. Um. You know, wash intends another state

3544
03:12:00,879 --> 03:12:04,400
Speaker 1: that's doing a really good job. Um. They you you

3545
03:12:04,520 --> 03:12:07,920
Speaker 1: buy an an access pass US thirty dollars a year,

3546
03:12:08,040 --> 03:12:10,320
Speaker 1: which supports part of that go to supporting that that

3547
03:12:10,480 --> 03:12:14,160
Speaker 1: state trust revenue. Um. But those lands are open and

3548
03:12:14,240 --> 03:12:16,640
Speaker 1: accessible and you know they've got good signage like that.

3549
03:12:16,680 --> 03:12:19,480
Speaker 1: You go to their website, it's very welcoming. Um. And

3550
03:12:19,520 --> 03:12:21,440
Speaker 1: so that's something that they've done. You know, New Mexico

3551
03:12:21,720 --> 03:12:24,840
Speaker 1: and Arizona are two other states that actually charge of

3552
03:12:24,959 --> 03:12:28,320
Speaker 1: fee um for the public to use these trust lands,

3553
03:12:28,360 --> 03:12:31,200
Speaker 1: which because they're multiple use lands, I think is just fine.

3554
03:12:31,280 --> 03:12:33,520
Speaker 1: That's the way to support the trust responsibilities that also

3555
03:12:33,600 --> 03:12:36,879
Speaker 1: support the public. And now we'll get into what al

3556
03:12:37,000 --> 03:12:40,520
Speaker 1: call the bad apples at least bad from my perspective,

3557
03:12:40,600 --> 03:12:43,600
Speaker 1: as you know, like a general outdoorsman who likes a

3558
03:12:43,680 --> 03:12:45,840
Speaker 1: roam around outside a whole bunch. The sort of flip

3559
03:12:45,920 --> 03:12:50,879
Speaker 1: side to that are states that um would would manage

3560
03:12:50,959 --> 03:12:54,880
Speaker 1: state trust lands for exclusive use, and so you'd lease

3561
03:12:55,000 --> 03:12:58,840
Speaker 1: them to an individual who basically would control access to

3562
03:12:58,920 --> 03:13:03,200
Speaker 1: those lands. And Colorado is the only state in the

3563
03:13:03,280 --> 03:13:05,480
Speaker 1: Mountain West. What are the eleven western states that we

3564
03:13:05,560 --> 03:13:09,160
Speaker 1: looked at that actually does not allow public access to

3565
03:13:09,760 --> 03:13:12,960
Speaker 1: the vast majority of its trust holdings. It's so Oncolorado,

3566
03:13:13,120 --> 03:13:17,520
Speaker 1: Like you know what John Denver Blissen, any it just

3567
03:13:17,600 --> 03:13:19,440
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't it feel on you you loose to live

3568
03:13:19,480 --> 03:13:21,600
Speaker 1: in Colorado? You know, he doesn't feel on Colorado. Like

3569
03:13:21,879 --> 03:13:24,200
Speaker 1: I agree. I wasn't really aware of it when I

3570
03:13:24,280 --> 03:13:27,240
Speaker 1: lived there, and it just never came across. Yeah. But yeah,

3571
03:13:27,280 --> 03:13:29,760
Speaker 1: you remember, like the outdoor retailers, they got all mad

3572
03:13:29,840 --> 03:13:32,080
Speaker 1: at the state of Utah. They're like, my god, We're

3573
03:13:32,120 --> 03:13:37,160
Speaker 1: going down to Colorado because they do it right. Mm hmm. Yeah. No,

3574
03:13:37,280 --> 03:13:39,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to fall in line with the way

3575
03:13:39,760 --> 03:13:45,040
Speaker 1: they act normally. And so Colorado has almost two point

3576
03:13:45,280 --> 03:13:48,879
Speaker 1: eight million acres of state trust lands, how many landlocked?

3577
03:13:50,040 --> 03:13:55,119
Speaker 1: Four and thirty five thousand acres are landlocked, but one

3578
03:13:55,360 --> 03:14:00,560
Speaker 1: point seven eight million acres of accessible land are closed

3579
03:14:00,600 --> 03:14:04,080
Speaker 1: to the public by state policy. God, that just seems

3580
03:14:04,760 --> 03:14:06,440
Speaker 1: And also if you think, I said, you did a

3581
03:14:06,480 --> 03:14:08,000
Speaker 1: great job of land out how it came to be,

3582
03:14:08,200 --> 03:14:10,280
Speaker 1: and you pointed out the intent was not that people

3583
03:14:10,320 --> 03:14:13,040
Speaker 1: could go run around messing around, I understand it. It

3584
03:14:13,240 --> 03:14:17,160
Speaker 1: just feels as though, what a missed opportunity. Well, so

3585
03:14:18,760 --> 03:14:21,360
Speaker 1: I want to point out that Colorado, so they do

3586
03:14:21,560 --> 03:14:24,280
Speaker 1: have a program where the State Landboard in Colorado, Parks

3587
03:14:24,320 --> 03:14:28,280
Speaker 1: and Wildlife are partnering to make lands accessible. Um And

3588
03:14:28,800 --> 03:14:32,480
Speaker 1: up until this hunting season there were um they have

3589
03:14:32,480 --> 03:14:34,959
Speaker 1: a hunter program like a sportsman's program. Plus there's also

3590
03:14:35,000 --> 03:14:37,000
Speaker 1: there's some lands that they leave for state parks in

3591
03:14:37,120 --> 03:14:41,039
Speaker 1: wildlife management areas that are open to the public. It's

3592
03:14:41,040 --> 03:14:44,280
Speaker 1: about five hundred and fifty eight thousand acres total there

3593
03:14:44,280 --> 03:14:46,240
Speaker 1: and this year they're actually gonna open up another hundred

3594
03:14:46,280 --> 03:14:49,520
Speaker 1: thousand acres through that program, with the intent that they

3595
03:14:49,600 --> 03:14:54,240
Speaker 1: opened up another four thousand acres in the next two years,

3596
03:14:54,520 --> 03:14:58,120
Speaker 1: which would bring the state total to write around a

3597
03:14:58,280 --> 03:15:03,280
Speaker 1: million acres U of land accessible to sportsman, and so

3598
03:15:03,400 --> 03:15:06,000
Speaker 1: I think that you know, they deserve a pat on

3599
03:15:06,120 --> 03:15:09,160
Speaker 1: the back for that. You take a step back and

3600
03:15:09,240 --> 03:15:11,800
Speaker 1: you compare them to all the other states in the West.

3601
03:15:12,000 --> 03:15:15,320
Speaker 1: They're still the only state that will have less than

3602
03:15:15,760 --> 03:15:19,320
Speaker 1: half of their land accessible to the public. And one

3603
03:15:19,360 --> 03:15:22,000
Speaker 1: of the things too, even if it's sitting there not

3604
03:15:22,200 --> 03:15:25,520
Speaker 1: actively being used. Yeah, if even it doesn't have a

3605
03:15:25,600 --> 03:15:28,200
Speaker 1: lease on it for recreation, you can't use it unless

3606
03:15:28,240 --> 03:15:31,400
Speaker 1: there's it's unless it's at least two CPW Colorado Parks

3607
03:15:31,520 --> 03:15:35,560
Speaker 1: wild Life in that state real quick, and that state,

3608
03:15:35,600 --> 03:15:38,680
Speaker 1: let's say there's a Colorado, you find a you guys

3609
03:15:38,720 --> 03:15:42,120
Speaker 1: do your report, and you find a landlocked state section

3610
03:15:42,160 --> 03:15:47,880
Speaker 1: in Colorado surrounded by a cattle ranch. Okay, Um, is

3611
03:15:48,000 --> 03:15:56,039
Speaker 1: that operator of that cattle ranch prohibited? Like he doesn't

3612
03:15:56,080 --> 03:15:58,279
Speaker 1: necessarily have rights to go mess around there's like anybody

3613
03:15:58,280 --> 03:16:00,840
Speaker 1: else does. Right, It's theoretically he could have this chunk

3614
03:16:00,879 --> 03:16:02,360
Speaker 1: of land and his thing that he's not supposed to

3615
03:16:02,400 --> 03:16:04,200
Speaker 1: walk across. I think they would have to at least

3616
03:16:04,280 --> 03:16:07,640
Speaker 1: that for recreation if they wanted to. Okay, so it's

3617
03:16:07,640 --> 03:16:10,440
Speaker 1: not de fact or his land. He might if he was.

3618
03:16:10,520 --> 03:16:13,680
Speaker 1: If he's like super law abiding, there could feasibly be

3619
03:16:13,760 --> 03:16:15,720
Speaker 1: a situation in which he's like, I can't even go

3620
03:16:15,840 --> 03:16:19,760
Speaker 1: on it, and I own the periphery of it. And

3621
03:16:20,040 --> 03:16:23,160
Speaker 1: here's something that you know, we uncovered sort of done

3622
03:16:23,200 --> 03:16:25,880
Speaker 1: some research that makes this all a little bit more

3623
03:16:26,280 --> 03:16:32,800
Speaker 1: bothersome is that the people of Colorado change the Colorado

3624
03:16:32,920 --> 03:16:36,720
Speaker 1: Constitution to require that state trust lands, in addition to

3625
03:16:36,800 --> 03:16:40,640
Speaker 1: being managed for sort of sustainable profit, not maximum profit,

3626
03:16:41,120 --> 03:16:44,840
Speaker 1: that they also be managed for wildlife and aesthetic values

3627
03:16:45,080 --> 03:16:48,119
Speaker 1: for the long term and sort of for future generations

3628
03:16:48,160 --> 03:16:50,200
Speaker 1: of Colorado's And I'm sort of paraphrasing there, but that

3629
03:16:50,280 --> 03:16:52,280
Speaker 1: actually has stated in their constitution, and that was a

3630
03:16:52,400 --> 03:16:55,320
Speaker 1: change that was made by the people of Colorado. But

3631
03:16:55,440 --> 03:16:58,400
Speaker 1: yet it's and that's something that I'm not aware of

3632
03:16:58,480 --> 03:17:00,520
Speaker 1: any other state in the way to having. And so

3633
03:17:00,560 --> 03:17:03,200
Speaker 1: you could theoretically said their constitution is the most public

3634
03:17:03,240 --> 03:17:06,320
Speaker 1: access friendly of any state with state trust lands, but

3635
03:17:06,440 --> 03:17:10,920
Speaker 1: yet they're sort of management of recreation is the least friendly.

3636
03:17:11,040 --> 03:17:13,000
Speaker 1: And so I want to give him an a for

3637
03:17:13,120 --> 03:17:18,119
Speaker 1: this recent sort of project UM to help expand access UM,

3638
03:17:18,520 --> 03:17:20,960
Speaker 1: but they have to do it three more times to

3639
03:17:21,120 --> 03:17:25,800
Speaker 1: be sort of in parody with like Montana. It's like

3640
03:17:25,879 --> 03:17:27,800
Speaker 1: a super bad kid who all of a sudden, like

3641
03:17:28,240 --> 03:17:30,760
Speaker 1: isn't quite so bad. Well, it's good, they did it good,

3642
03:17:30,800 --> 03:17:33,520
Speaker 1: they did the right things. Great. Yeah, but if you'd

3643
03:17:33,520 --> 03:17:36,400
Speaker 1: like But if you if you compare it to other

3644
03:17:36,560 --> 03:17:39,840
Speaker 1: states based on what lands are open, what lands are not,

3645
03:17:40,879 --> 03:17:43,879
Speaker 1: it is the one outlier. And there's a couple other

3646
03:17:44,000 --> 03:17:47,760
Speaker 1: states outside of the sort of Mountain West that least

3647
03:17:47,800 --> 03:17:52,120
Speaker 1: their state trust lands, UM, just for sort of private use.

3648
03:17:52,160 --> 03:17:55,880
Speaker 1: And those are Mississippi, Oklahoma, and Nebraska. Those are the

3649
03:17:55,959 --> 03:17:59,200
Speaker 1: ones I'm aware of. But UM, state trust lanes in

3650
03:17:59,240 --> 03:18:01,160
Speaker 1: Alabama open. They don't have a lot left, like twenty

3651
03:18:01,200 --> 03:18:04,600
Speaker 1: eight thousand or something like that. UM, Minnesota, those lands

3652
03:18:04,640 --> 03:18:08,960
Speaker 1: are open. How about Texas? Texas didn't get land grants

3653
03:18:09,000 --> 03:18:11,640
Speaker 1: the same way, neither in Alaska because they came into

3654
03:18:12,280 --> 03:18:14,680
Speaker 1: well it's just a different state. I don't know the

3655
03:18:14,800 --> 03:18:16,760
Speaker 1: history of Texas. I do know that they did not

3656
03:18:17,080 --> 03:18:20,800
Speaker 1: get their grants the same way. UM, and they're probably

3657
03:18:20,840 --> 03:18:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to know handouts. I don't There was

3658
03:18:23,280 --> 03:18:26,920
Speaker 1: no federal land in Texas for the way, there was

3659
03:18:26,959 --> 03:18:28,920
Speaker 1: no federal lands, So that was one reason the feds

3660
03:18:28,959 --> 03:18:30,920
Speaker 1: were doing. That was like, instead of being taxed on

3661
03:18:31,000 --> 03:18:34,640
Speaker 1: this federal land, we're gonna give you these state lands

3662
03:18:34,720 --> 03:18:39,080
Speaker 1: to help you. But I think Texas did get some

3663
03:18:39,240 --> 03:18:41,280
Speaker 1: sort of land grants, but it was just a whole

3664
03:18:41,360 --> 03:18:47,800
Speaker 1: different deal. Um, Hawaii, Texas, Alaska, they all they're kind

3665
03:18:47,840 --> 03:18:52,959
Speaker 1: of unique. Then there's a different category of bad apples.

3666
03:18:53,280 --> 03:18:57,160
Speaker 1: States that sold off their public state lands and don't

3667
03:18:57,280 --> 03:18:59,880
Speaker 1: have it anymore. I think we need to talk about

3668
03:19:00,440 --> 03:19:02,840
Speaker 1: the oldest kids. Those are the ones that might be

3669
03:19:02,959 --> 03:19:05,440
Speaker 1: even worse than some of the ones we just talked about.

3670
03:19:06,440 --> 03:19:10,080
Speaker 1: They were granted over a million, maybe sometimes two million

3671
03:19:10,160 --> 03:19:13,440
Speaker 1: acres of state tress lands, and they don't really have

3672
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:16,880
Speaker 1: any right now, So it could be all these are

3673
03:19:16,920 --> 03:19:19,080
Speaker 1: mainly in the Midwest. As you go east to west,

3674
03:19:19,240 --> 03:19:23,000
Speaker 1: you're basically going from oldest kids to the youngest. So

3675
03:19:23,400 --> 03:19:25,320
Speaker 1: I mean, those are probably the worst. It could be

3676
03:19:25,360 --> 03:19:30,039
Speaker 1: a completely different game in Iowa or Kansas doesn't have any.

3677
03:19:30,080 --> 03:19:32,680
Speaker 1: They sold them off if I mean they were granted

3678
03:19:35,480 --> 03:19:37,520
Speaker 1: Yeah in Kansas, man, like they had two point nine

3679
03:19:37,560 --> 03:19:40,560
Speaker 1: million acres. Could you imagine Kansas got good hunting like

3680
03:19:40,640 --> 03:19:42,760
Speaker 1: if they had retained those if they were open to

3681
03:19:42,840 --> 03:19:46,360
Speaker 1: the public, My question is now out of those states,

3682
03:19:46,480 --> 03:19:48,240
Speaker 1: these like they're the worst of the kids, because we

3683
03:19:48,280 --> 03:19:50,200
Speaker 1: feel like they sold off all the lands, but did

3684
03:19:50,280 --> 03:19:53,640
Speaker 1: any of them then sort of shine because they have

3685
03:19:53,840 --> 03:19:56,279
Speaker 1: something to show for it. Although they don't have these lands,

3686
03:19:56,680 --> 03:19:58,920
Speaker 1: they didn't sell them off to their bodies and and

3687
03:19:59,280 --> 03:20:02,240
Speaker 1: then squad of the money on wine and song as

3688
03:20:02,240 --> 03:20:04,840
Speaker 1: to you said, but they do have the best institutions

3689
03:20:04,879 --> 03:20:09,000
Speaker 1: across the country. Or people spend money on song, like

3690
03:20:09,120 --> 03:20:12,000
Speaker 1: in the same wine women in song like you gather

3691
03:20:12,120 --> 03:20:16,240
Speaker 1: You mean like they bought alcohol, like they took the

3692
03:20:16,320 --> 03:20:19,160
Speaker 1: engagement prostitution or took women out to eat. But what's

3693
03:20:19,160 --> 03:20:23,360
Speaker 1: the song part live like concert tickets? Yeah, it must

3694
03:20:23,400 --> 03:20:28,480
Speaker 1: have been the opera karaoke machine, you know, karaoke machine

3695
03:20:30,360 --> 03:20:33,320
Speaker 1: in karaoke eyes might have not looked into that, right.

3696
03:20:33,480 --> 03:20:36,160
Speaker 1: I do not know the size of every state's permanent fund,

3697
03:20:36,240 --> 03:20:38,880
Speaker 1: their endowment for their schools. I do know that states

3698
03:20:39,080 --> 03:20:42,560
Speaker 1: like Arizona, New Mexico have done quite well, and they've

3699
03:20:42,640 --> 03:20:45,280
Speaker 1: retained the vast majority of their states. They've monetized their

3700
03:20:45,320 --> 03:20:48,400
Speaker 1: lands without selling them. That's right, um, And well, one thing,

3701
03:20:48,440 --> 03:20:51,680
Speaker 1: Arizona has been very selective about what they sell and

3702
03:20:51,879 --> 03:20:54,280
Speaker 1: so like they have lands in like Merria County down

3703
03:20:54,360 --> 03:20:56,600
Speaker 1: where Phoenix is, and so they've been able to sell

3704
03:20:56,640 --> 03:20:58,640
Speaker 1: that money for it's an absolute toime that that land

3705
03:20:58,680 --> 03:21:01,040
Speaker 1: for an absolute ton of money, UM, but it's a

3706
03:21:01,120 --> 03:21:04,240
Speaker 1: general policy they've really refrained from selling lands and so

3707
03:21:04,280 --> 03:21:06,560
Speaker 1: they've been able to generate a lot of revenue New Mexico,

3708
03:21:07,400 --> 03:21:09,880
Speaker 1: I mean, the Premian basins down there, UM, oil and

3709
03:21:09,920 --> 03:21:11,680
Speaker 1: gas is a big issue, and so they've leased a

3710
03:21:11,720 --> 03:21:13,200
Speaker 1: lot of their lands for oil and gas and that's

3711
03:21:13,240 --> 03:21:17,040
Speaker 1: really um more of a factor of just having a

3712
03:21:17,160 --> 03:21:19,320
Speaker 1: resource that's very valuable, and so they've been able to

3713
03:21:19,440 --> 03:21:21,400
Speaker 1: I mean just sort of annual profits. I know New

3714
03:21:21,440 --> 03:21:24,119
Speaker 1: Mexico makes a lot of money um off of their

3715
03:21:24,240 --> 03:21:26,200
Speaker 1: state trust and so you might have certain states that

3716
03:21:26,280 --> 03:21:29,640
Speaker 1: squander right UM, and that's not the right way to

3717
03:21:29,680 --> 03:21:31,440
Speaker 1: go about it, where the money is not going to

3718
03:21:31,800 --> 03:21:34,199
Speaker 1: the institution. But then you have the other side where

3719
03:21:34,640 --> 03:21:38,600
Speaker 1: they're so focused on the business that um that they're

3720
03:21:38,640 --> 03:21:41,520
Speaker 1: not thinking about the resource or the public in other ways.

3721
03:21:42,240 --> 03:21:45,400
Speaker 1: So to what degree are people aware as in is

3722
03:21:45,440 --> 03:21:51,039
Speaker 1: it like common knowledge that there are landlocked public lands

3723
03:21:51,160 --> 03:21:55,000
Speaker 1: all around us in the American West? I found um

3724
03:21:55,320 --> 03:21:57,200
Speaker 1: like last year, when we're trying to verify some of

3725
03:21:57,240 --> 03:22:00,280
Speaker 1: the larger federal parcels, it was most useful to talk

3726
03:22:00,360 --> 03:22:03,160
Speaker 1: to like a game warden in the area because they

3727
03:22:03,240 --> 03:22:07,840
Speaker 1: knew exactly where they're busting people for being on inaccessible land.

3728
03:22:08,280 --> 03:22:10,080
Speaker 1: And so I feel like a lot of this knowledge

3729
03:22:10,160 --> 03:22:11,840
Speaker 1: is at the local level, and that's a lot of

3730
03:22:11,920 --> 03:22:15,039
Speaker 1: what this project is is trying to compile it all

3731
03:22:15,600 --> 03:22:18,600
Speaker 1: to actually wrap your head around the issue. Have you

3732
03:22:18,680 --> 03:22:21,440
Speaker 1: have you have you thought about taking the analysis and

3733
03:22:21,520 --> 03:22:24,680
Speaker 1: then looking at the pieces of land that are sort

3734
03:22:24,720 --> 03:22:28,040
Speaker 1: of I don't want I'll use the word offending, though

3735
03:22:28,040 --> 03:22:30,160
Speaker 1: I shouldn't, that's not the right word. Like where you

3736
03:22:30,200 --> 03:22:32,120
Speaker 1: look at these like big chunks land people can't get to,

3737
03:22:33,080 --> 03:22:34,959
Speaker 1: and then you look at the easiest way to solve

3738
03:22:35,080 --> 03:22:39,480
Speaker 1: that puzzle, and then you look into what is going

3739
03:22:39,680 --> 03:22:42,560
Speaker 1: on with that chunk of land? Does that chunk of

3740
03:22:42,640 --> 03:22:46,720
Speaker 1: land for sale with the person wish to sell it? Uh?

3741
03:22:47,040 --> 03:22:50,160
Speaker 1: Like what is the status of that thing? That's generally

3742
03:22:50,600 --> 03:22:53,560
Speaker 1: what land trusts do, where you have groups like the

3743
03:22:53,680 --> 03:22:57,240
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountainknock Foundation where they've got folks actually out there

3744
03:22:57,320 --> 03:23:01,000
Speaker 1: drinking coffee with landowners and talking about how to transfer

3745
03:23:01,560 --> 03:23:03,640
Speaker 1: or sell a piece of land to open it up,

3746
03:23:03,760 --> 03:23:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, for the public. And so there's actually groups

3747
03:23:06,400 --> 03:23:08,760
Speaker 1: out there, a lot of them that that is their

3748
03:23:08,840 --> 03:23:12,320
Speaker 1: purpose is to work cooperative landowners identify these opportunities, but

3749
03:23:12,400 --> 03:23:16,680
Speaker 1: they don't have always the best information about um where

3750
03:23:16,720 --> 03:23:18,920
Speaker 1: those inaccessible lands are. And that's really where this project

3751
03:23:19,000 --> 03:23:21,080
Speaker 1: comes in. It's always actually does two things that helps

3752
03:23:21,240 --> 03:23:24,959
Speaker 1: inform um where those inaccessible lands are. To help people

3753
03:23:25,040 --> 03:23:26,800
Speaker 1: sort of be like, hey, there's an opportunity here and

3754
03:23:26,840 --> 03:23:28,760
Speaker 1: then you start then and then those folks can look

3755
03:23:28,840 --> 03:23:32,040
Speaker 1: at around that landlocked parcel where there might be you know,

3756
03:23:32,200 --> 03:23:34,280
Speaker 1: five different private holdings and a couple of them are

3757
03:23:34,320 --> 03:23:36,440
Speaker 1: close to a road, and they can be like, you know,

3758
03:23:36,879 --> 03:23:38,840
Speaker 1: is build a good you know what's that person like?

3759
03:23:39,120 --> 03:23:41,840
Speaker 1: They you know, pretty public friendly and public access friendly

3760
03:23:41,920 --> 03:23:43,960
Speaker 1: and and sort of have a conversation and sometimes it

3761
03:23:44,040 --> 03:23:46,240
Speaker 1: takes you know, several years to sort of work something

3762
03:23:46,320 --> 03:23:49,760
Speaker 1: out with a landowner. But also, um the other side

3763
03:23:49,800 --> 03:23:53,680
Speaker 1: of this is state policies and and federal policies and

3764
03:23:53,720 --> 03:23:56,039
Speaker 1: actually having programs in place that help provide the money.

3765
03:23:56,800 --> 03:23:58,600
Speaker 1: And you know, at the federal level, they've got like

3766
03:23:58,680 --> 03:24:02,120
Speaker 1: the land and water conservation and in three of that

3767
03:24:02,520 --> 03:24:06,480
Speaker 1: fund is dedicated for access. Between fifteen and million dollars

3768
03:24:06,480 --> 03:24:10,600
Speaker 1: a year must be used for access. UM. You know,

3769
03:24:10,600 --> 03:24:13,080
Speaker 1: at the state level, they can actually use state side

3770
03:24:13,120 --> 03:24:18,840
Speaker 1: FUNDINGWCF dollars must go UM too. States and they have

3771
03:24:18,920 --> 03:24:21,680
Speaker 1: the ability if they wanted to to use UM some

3772
03:24:21,760 --> 03:24:23,920
Speaker 1: of those dollars for access, but they may not realize that,

3773
03:24:24,200 --> 03:24:28,000
Speaker 1: and this report helps them see that. Also, UM there's

3774
03:24:28,000 --> 03:24:31,400
Speaker 1: certain states that just really recreations isn't a thing for them,

3775
03:24:31,720 --> 03:24:34,320
Speaker 1: well UM, and they're not thinking about it. And so

3776
03:24:34,520 --> 03:24:36,840
Speaker 1: that's we're hopeful that this information will also be used

3777
03:24:36,879 --> 03:24:39,600
Speaker 1: that way where UM people be like, hey, look at

3778
03:24:39,640 --> 03:24:41,640
Speaker 1: what Montana is doing or New Mexico they've got this

3779
03:24:41,879 --> 03:24:44,920
Speaker 1: this new council where they've actually pulled together this group

3780
03:24:44,959 --> 03:24:47,160
Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out like how to open

3781
03:24:47,280 --> 03:24:49,040
Speaker 1: some of these lands up and also what are some

3782
03:24:49,120 --> 03:24:50,840
Speaker 1: of the restrictions on these state lands that maybe we

3783
03:24:50,879 --> 03:24:53,680
Speaker 1: could change a little bit um to make it more

3784
03:24:53,720 --> 03:24:58,080
Speaker 1: sort of recreation friendly and uh. And so maybe we

3785
03:24:58,200 --> 03:25:00,480
Speaker 1: can help bring attention to that through the this work.

3786
03:25:00,560 --> 03:25:03,600
Speaker 1: And so states like Wyoming, who has a lot of

3787
03:25:03,680 --> 03:25:05,920
Speaker 1: landlocked lands, might be like, hey, you know, what we

3788
03:25:06,000 --> 03:25:09,360
Speaker 1: could create an access program that will help create easements

3789
03:25:09,400 --> 03:25:11,440
Speaker 1: to these state parcels. And you know what, it's not

3790
03:25:11,520 --> 03:25:13,879
Speaker 1: only going to increase recreation to these lands, but it's

3791
03:25:13,879 --> 03:25:15,560
Speaker 1: also gonna make it easier for us to manage them

3792
03:25:15,959 --> 03:25:18,280
Speaker 1: to generate revenue for a beneficiary because we'll have access

3793
03:25:18,320 --> 03:25:20,720
Speaker 1: for these other reasons too. So, now that the report

3794
03:25:20,920 --> 03:25:25,720
Speaker 1: is out, what's next We're gonna be looking at nationwide.

3795
03:25:25,840 --> 03:25:28,800
Speaker 1: We'd love to, like I said, our main goal would

3796
03:25:28,800 --> 03:25:32,040
Speaker 1: be to get to this landlocked data set that's nationwide.

3797
03:25:32,160 --> 03:25:35,920
Speaker 1: Keep working with local land Trust BLM, everybody to make

3798
03:25:35,959 --> 03:25:38,160
Speaker 1: sure we have a solid data set that has all

3799
03:25:38,160 --> 03:25:40,840
Speaker 1: those easements in there and we know for sure, yes

3800
03:25:40,920 --> 03:25:43,920
Speaker 1: this one's accessible, this one isn't. We'd love to get

3801
03:25:43,920 --> 03:25:45,959
Speaker 1: to that point in because there's there are some real

3802
03:25:46,080 --> 03:25:51,200
Speaker 1: contested easements out there. Those are prescriptive easeman steve, which

3803
03:25:51,240 --> 03:25:54,360
Speaker 1: are different than recorded easeman so and that's a state

3804
03:25:54,480 --> 03:25:57,680
Speaker 1: law issue. But if they're and so it's different from state.

3805
03:25:57,760 --> 03:26:00,520
Speaker 1: But you think it like the crazy amount. I mean,

3806
03:26:00,560 --> 03:26:02,760
Speaker 1: you just hear various ones like well, I mean I've

3807
03:26:02,800 --> 03:26:05,279
Speaker 1: heard of some down in Colorado to like tested easement.

3808
03:26:05,520 --> 03:26:08,119
Speaker 1: So if there's the tested rule. I shouldn't say easments

3809
03:26:08,720 --> 03:26:12,840
Speaker 1: contested access points, roads and things that were historically regarded

3810
03:26:12,879 --> 03:26:14,840
Speaker 1: as a county road. But someone wants to argue that

3811
03:26:14,879 --> 03:26:17,520
Speaker 1: they're not, in fact the county road, that's right. But

3812
03:26:17,640 --> 03:26:19,960
Speaker 1: with the easements, if it's written in paper that there's

3813
03:26:19,959 --> 03:26:22,640
Speaker 1: an eazement there, it's not contested. But there's some places,

3814
03:26:22,840 --> 03:26:26,840
Speaker 1: because of continuous use um that you can get a

3815
03:26:26,879 --> 03:26:29,200
Speaker 1: prescriptive easement by going in front of a judge. It's

3816
03:26:29,240 --> 03:26:31,240
Speaker 1: a very contentious way to go about it, and it

3817
03:26:31,320 --> 03:26:33,920
Speaker 1: doesn't make a lot of friends, um, but there are

3818
03:26:33,959 --> 03:26:35,800
Speaker 1: places where that's happening, and that's why we want to

3819
03:26:35,800 --> 03:26:37,720
Speaker 1: get in front of that and try and get cooperative

3820
03:26:37,800 --> 03:26:41,760
Speaker 1: work done that brings landowners and hunters and anglers and

3821
03:26:41,800 --> 03:26:43,800
Speaker 1: other folks together to actually open lands up in a

3822
03:26:43,840 --> 03:26:46,120
Speaker 1: way that works to everybody. And that's the preferred the

3823
03:26:46,200 --> 03:26:48,600
Speaker 1: way to go about this. Okay, guys, you heard all that.

3824
03:26:49,320 --> 03:26:52,080
Speaker 1: If you care about getting state public lands that we

3825
03:26:52,280 --> 03:26:56,800
Speaker 1: all own opened up for us, there is definitely something

3826
03:26:56,959 --> 03:27:01,880
Speaker 1: we as American citizens can do right now. You can

3827
03:27:01,920 --> 03:27:05,200
Speaker 1: go send a message to your lawmakers. There's a website

3828
03:27:05,240 --> 03:27:07,760
Speaker 1: that t RCP has helped facilitate that for you. Now,

3829
03:27:07,840 --> 03:27:10,680
Speaker 1: you can just go to ww dot TRCP dot org

3830
03:27:10,800 --> 03:27:12,800
Speaker 1: and scrounge all around and find it. Or you can

3831
03:27:12,840 --> 03:27:16,280
Speaker 1: go to this not entirely handy website address which I'm

3832
03:27:16,280 --> 03:27:20,000
Speaker 1: gonna lay out for you. Www dot t r CP

3833
03:27:20,800 --> 03:27:29,280
Speaker 1: dot org slash unlocking, dash public dash lands. That's right

3834
03:27:29,360 --> 03:27:34,560
Speaker 1: as and gentlemen, trcp dot org slash unlocking, and you

3835
03:27:34,600 --> 03:27:38,400
Speaker 1: do a little dash mark public, another little dash mark lands.

3836
03:27:38,480 --> 03:27:40,680
Speaker 1: The hell of the website. Scroll down to where it

3837
03:27:40,760 --> 03:27:44,760
Speaker 1: says the key to unlocking public lands. Read all about

3838
03:27:44,840 --> 03:27:47,560
Speaker 1: the Land and Water Conservation Fund, which is a fund

3839
03:27:47,640 --> 03:27:51,720
Speaker 1: that helps unlock inaccessible lands, and send your message to

3840
03:27:51,800 --> 03:27:57,400
Speaker 1: your elected official right there. L w CF money is

3841
03:27:57,560 --> 03:28:01,960
Speaker 1: there to help on facilitating access to our public land.

3842
03:28:02,120 --> 03:28:06,000
Speaker 1: Make your voice heard, take action and help unlock public

3843
03:28:06,120 --> 03:28:08,480
Speaker 1: lands for us all. Thank you,