1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: For decades now, there's been a persisting story from Mexican 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: immigrants and even family members that every opportunity for higher education. 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: For jobs, for a better life, those things. 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Could only be found in the United States and not 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: in Mexico. 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 3: My whole life I grew up Mexico doesn't have any opportunities. 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 3: Mexico doesn't set you up to be successful in Mexico. 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: But I've noticed that's been changing. People who have lived 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: in the United States for much of their lives are 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: now talking about moving back to Mexico. And that's a 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: big shift, even from like ten or fifteen years ago. 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 3: And oh, my god, was I wrong. I finished high 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 3: school here, I went to university here. I got great jobs, 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 3: great paying jobs. I purchased a home last year. I'm 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 3: able to travel internationally. I'm able to have a good 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 3: life here. 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: That's from a TikTok video of a user named Annie mansonades. 19 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm any by the way. 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: She's talking about her family how they moved back to 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: Mexico a few years ago after her parents had immigrated 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: to the United States for what they thought would be 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: the American dream. Back then, the largely accepted narrative was 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: that if you wanted a better life, you had to 25 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: head north past the border. But Annie says that's just 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: not the case anymore. 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: So I just wanted to make this video if anyone 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: is considering just moving, the Mexico that your parents left ten, fifteen, 29 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: twenty thirty years ago is not the same Mexico that 30 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: currently exists. 31 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 4: There are so many opportunities. 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: There's just so much and Annie is not alone. 33 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: There are tons of videos just like Annie's on social 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: media of Mexican immigrants or their American born children who 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: are making their way back to Mexico because their hope 36 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: in the American dream has started to fade, disillusion and 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: with American politics, they're seeking a new dream, the Mexican Dream. 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: From Futuromedia and PRX It's Latino USA. I'm Marie Josa. 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: Today we continue our collaboration with Eli's Studios in Perfect Paradise, 40 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: this time The Mexican Dream, and for this episode, once again, 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Antoniaes. 42 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 5: Today he though our two shows have decided to team 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 5: up and do a series about the forces influencing Latino 44 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 5: attitudes in this country at the moment and how those 45 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 5: values could be changing. Last week we talked about the 46 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 5: rise of the Latina trodwife influencer online, and next week 47 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 5: we're taking a deep dive into a debate happening with 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 5: Latino polsters and the role that data and messaging played 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 5: in the last election. But today we're diving into a 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 5: new aspect of the story, how the belief in the 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 5: American dream might be shifting to another part of the Americas. 52 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 5: You might have heard a lot during Lockdown about how 53 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 5: there was this influx of American immigrants, often called digital nomads. 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 5: We're working US jobs, making US dollars, but living in Mexico. 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 4: Whopping, one point six million Americans are living in Mexico. 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: It's not the border crossing you expected. 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 5: Americans leaving pricey US cities heading south to work from 58 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 5: home in Mexico City. The rapid growth of remote work 59 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 5: has given people more freedom to pick the places they'd 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 5: like to live, and lately more Americans have been choosing Mexico. 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: It was huge, It was a big story. It was like, wait, 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: everybody hated on Mexico City. Y'all said it was filled 63 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: with smog and dangerous, But now y'all are moving there. 64 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: In droves. 65 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 5: What happened exactly, and we have data to back that up. 66 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 5: From twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two, the number of 67 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 5: Americans who applied or renewed residency visas surged by about 68 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 5: seventy percent, according to statistics from Mexico's Migration Policy Unit. 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 5: The story I want to tell you today is maybe 70 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 5: a subset of those statistics, but it's a story that 71 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 5: I just haven't heard as often. It's about Mexican Americans. 72 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 5: So folks who you know are of Mexican heritage but 73 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 5: grew up here in the US moving to Mexico City. 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 5: And the way that I first became aware of this 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 5: trend was through tiktoks. 76 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 6: After living in the United States for twenty three years, 77 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 6: I can tell you, with all the certainty in the world, 78 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 6: life in Mexico is a lot better. With everything going 79 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 6: on in the United States, people are looking to escape. 80 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: The young woman who said, you know, my whole life, 81 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: all I heard was Mexico, and it's like, yeah, you've 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: been sold a bill of goods about Mexico. But also 83 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: some might say her parents were sold a bill of 84 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: goods about the United States. Yeah, it's the American dream 85 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: dollars are going to flow, and the United States is 86 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: a very complicated place right now. So this notion of 87 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: the American dream being replaced by a Mexican dream, I mean, 88 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: that's hot, and in. 89 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 5: Many ways it feels like a reaction to not feeling 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 5: represented by the politics in the US, feeling disillusioned with 91 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 5: American politics and reality. 92 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: Mexican politics have changed entirely, right right, Yeah, like US 93 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: politics have. I mean, they elected Claudia Schanebaum, a woman 94 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: president in a country that everybody says is so much Is. 95 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 7: That so I madri abuela cianifica imuquer dee. Yeah, Partido 96 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 7: de Mexico, la president. 97 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 5: The higher education system in Mexico has been growing. College 98 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 5: attendees more than doubled from around two million in two 99 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 5: thousand to around four million today. There's also a rapidly 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 5: expanding global film and television business that makes Spanish language 101 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 5: films and television. And so you see these like booming 102 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,679 Speaker 5: areas industries in Mexico, and just like the tenor around, 103 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 5: what it means to move to Mexico is very different. 104 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 5: So one thing I noticed in particular is that in 105 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 5: my own life, the people who I saw moving to 106 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 5: Mexico City were creative people. Artists, filmmakers, creative directors. Many 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 5: of the people who are in these fields that are 108 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 5: typically found in the places where you and I live, Manya, 109 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 5: like New York City, in La these places that are 110 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 5: considered these like hotbeds of creative activity. Now, like the 111 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 5: hot place that they're talking about is Mexico City. 112 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to be looking at in 113 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: this episode. We're going to be talking with the Mexican 114 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: American creative who moved to Mexico City in order to 115 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: pursue her version of the Mexican dream. 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 5: And we're also talking to a Mexico City native about 117 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,239 Speaker 5: how the influx of US immigrants is changing the city. 118 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: So let's dive deep now on chasing the Mexican Dream. 119 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: We have Dorris Anime Munos. She's an artist, an activist, 120 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: and a music supervisor. She was born in southern California. 121 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: She moved to Mexico City at the end of twenty 122 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: twenty two. And Antonella Raba is a cultural organizer. She's 123 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: a galleryist who was born in and works out of 124 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: Mexico City. Dorris, your parents like my parents, right, cefutom 125 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: Borguese machinavan deque. You know, the United States was going 126 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: to offer more opportunity. In my case, my dad was 127 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: a medical doctor. He was hired by the University of 128 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: Chicago to make his dream come true. But I didn't 129 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: talk a lot with my family about the American dream. 130 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: What about you? 131 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: Did you talk about this thing of isueenyo americano the 132 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: American dream? And how did you understand it while you 133 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: were growing up? 134 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: Dorris. 135 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 4: To be honest, I think since I was a kid, 136 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 4: it was a mixed bag of the American dream man nightmare. 137 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 4: I was the only citizen and an undocumented family, and 138 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 4: so I think my parents struggled with the idea of 139 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 4: what did we come to this country for. They came 140 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 4: shortly after the amnesty program, I think with a different 141 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 4: idea of what kailas by spidad, you know what, was 142 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 4: going to wait for them, only to then sit in 143 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: this legal limbo for over thirty years. My brothers are 144 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: seven and eleven years older than mean, so they were 145 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 4: brought to the States when they were two and six 146 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 4: years old, and they didn't know they were undocumented until 147 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 4: they were in middle school. And so I think like 148 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 4: any idea or dream that they had of their future 149 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 4: became that nightmare. And so I think there was a 150 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 4: lot of pressure on me to fulfill the American dream, 151 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 4: not so much that my family could fulfill that. 152 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: Wow, who yeah, I mean you moved back to Mexico 153 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, So what made you say? 154 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm looking I'm looking south. My dream is south. 155 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 4: I wanted to a make up for lost time. Since 156 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: I was a kid. I had this dream of being 157 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 4: able to meet the family that I never had a 158 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 4: chance to grow up with, hear stories about my grandparents, 159 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 4: and well, really pushed that decision was when my grandmother 160 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 4: passed away. I just felt like I can't. I can't 161 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 4: heal here, like yes, temple braid man and seek that 162 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: healing where I've always felt held most by, and that 163 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 4: was here. 164 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: And Antonella, you grew up in Mexico City, so you've 165 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: watched something else happen to Mexico City. Like when I 166 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: was little, for example, we didn't really want to be 167 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: caught dead speaking English in Las reother Mexico. 168 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: Well was that? 169 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: Now? 170 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: When I go back to Mexico City, I hear so 171 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: many people speaking English everywhere. What has that been like 172 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: for you to witness that, Antonella. 173 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 8: It's very different from say, five years ago, to be 174 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 8: out in the city and here so much English. It 175 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 8: just makes makes it feel like, ah, okay, now you're 176 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 8: coming here. It's a little bit of that, you know, 177 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 8: hour it's hyped, but you know, we've always been here. 178 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: It has always been a cool place always. 179 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Mexico City honestly is the coolest city in 180 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: the world. Huge hard to grasp, but you know, just 181 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: like the coolest city with most amazing energy. And so 182 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Antonella, Like five years ago when lockdown was happening, right, 183 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: this is when US folks digital nomads they settled down Mexico. 184 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: Do you remember seeing this and when you were seeing 185 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: this get this Dama or criendo, Like, what was happening 186 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: for you is you're like, wait, what's going on? 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 8: Yeah? 188 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 4: Well it was literally like that. 189 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 8: There was more and more people with their computers just 190 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 8: flooding Condesa and Roma, and then I think a bunch 191 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 8: of those stayed and then there's now there's families, and 192 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 8: it is a little weird. The city is a lot 193 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 8: more expensive, so definitely it's very different from say, five 194 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 8: years ago. 195 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 5: Coming up what it was like for Doris to move 196 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 5: to Mexico City as a Mexican American and how locals 197 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 5: have adapted to their new reality. 198 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: That's after the break. 199 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: Stay with us, Yes, Hey, welcome back to this special 200 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: collaboration between Latino USA and Imperfect Paradise. 201 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: I'm Maria Inojosa. 202 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 5: And I'm Antonia sa Rihida, host of Imperfect Paradise from 203 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 5: LAA Studios. We're talking about the Mexican dream, the idea 204 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 5: that the American dream for some Mexican American creatives has 205 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,599 Speaker 5: been replaced by the dream of moving back to the 206 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 5: homeland of their families. We're exploring the implication of that 207 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 5: for these folks as well as Mexico City locals. We're 208 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 5: back with Antonio Raba, a cultural organizer and galerist who 209 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 5: was born in and works out of Mexico City, and 210 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 5: Doris Anaimunos, an artist, activist and music supervisor who moved 211 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 5: to Mexico City in twenty twenty two. So on, Donda, 212 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 5: after college, I understand that you were interested in living abroad. 213 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 5: You moved to New York for a year to try 214 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 5: to make it there, But then you moved back to 215 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 5: Mexico City in twenty fourteen. What made you decide that 216 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 5: Mexico City was going to be your home base. 217 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 8: I mean, I had to come back because of my 218 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 8: mom because she got really sick. I was not planning 219 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 8: on it, but I realized pretty quickly how like unaccessible 220 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 8: was New York really in every sense, like I and 221 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 8: finding any jobs, any internships. So then coming here, I 222 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 8: was lucky to come back to a community that was 223 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 8: starting a bunch of like interesting projects. And it was 224 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 8: a nice moment locally coming in Mexico City for the 225 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 8: arts and like self organized projects, and I started being 226 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 8: part of some of those, And I mean I sort 227 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 8: of like realized all of that stuff that happened in 228 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 8: London or New York was sort of like happening here. 229 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 8: After coming back from New York, I took this job 230 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 8: in publication that focuses on Latin American art. That's when 231 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 8: I learned about contemporary Latin American art. 232 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: Realizing, you know, just not to be looking norse all 233 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: the time. 234 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Dotties, you walk around Mexico City, it's your city, now, 235 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: how are you negotiating your presence being in Mexico City, 236 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: how do you interact with people who can be like 237 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: huh ayaan nois Chile I see and porciento? How do 238 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: you negotiate that? 239 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 4: Whenever I think about that, I think about the quote 240 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 4: that Edward James almost says and the Selina. So, you know, 241 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 4: Mexican enough for the Mexicans, and we got to prove 242 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we got 243 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 4: to prove to the Americans how American we are. 244 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: We got to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and 245 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: more American than Americans. 246 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 5: Both at the same time. 247 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: It's exhausting. 248 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: You're not Mexican enough, You're not American enough here exactly, 249 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: and no matter where you are, you feel like you're 250 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: not enough. 251 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think it's something that always has to 252 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 4: culminate onto conversations that I end up having, whether it 253 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 4: was with family members or isn't my many uber drivers 254 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 4: because you know they can pick up on my accent. 255 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 4: And I think one time this happened in parquetic Yeos. 256 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 4: We're like trying to sell me like inhibits, like a 257 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 4: little like rice Crispy treats or whatever, and I was like, 258 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: I like nothing e and like, ah, wasn't there is 259 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 4: I'm like Los Angeles. I'm like I had this gringa 260 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 4: and I was like. 261 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: Ooo, they used the G word. 262 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 4: They did, and I was like, no, so gringa and 263 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, yeah, you know Upringo's like yeah, 264 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 4: I don't know a dampion. And that's what I didn't 265 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 4: understand until that very moment, because I grew up like 266 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 4: you referred to gringos as like white people in America, right, 267 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 4: But I didn't understand that Mexicanos call anyone who's from 268 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 4: the States at greeno and. 269 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: We grew up thinking like gringo or gringa means blonde hair, 270 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: blue eyes, Ken and Barbie Yah. 271 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was the reference that I had growing up, right, 272 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 4: Because it's like when a white lady was yelling at 273 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 4: my mom to speak in English at a supermarket when 274 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 4: I was translating for her at like seven years old, 275 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 4: that's a gringa. 276 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 5: To me, you know, and you're like, don't let me 277 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 5: in with her, yeah. 278 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 4: Exactly, And having to explain that experience to Mexican family 279 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 4: or Mexican friends of what it was like for me 280 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 4: being the only US born person in my family. Then 281 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 4: I think that gives the context of like why I 282 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: am here, because I know that, like I came here 283 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 4: with purpose, not just to like treat Mexico City as 284 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: my Disneyland, as like a digital nomad, you know, like mine, 285 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: to like de Luto, to meet family, to collect archives, 286 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 4: to interview my elders while I still have them to 287 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: create from that space, Like as an artist, I knew 288 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 4: that my journey gom Yego home it came to a 289 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 4: place where I hit a wall in La where like 290 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 4: I knew that everything that I wanted to create next 291 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 4: wasn't going to be in La, it wasn't going to 292 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 4: be born there. When I lost my grandmother, I felt 293 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 4: this sense of like how how finite our time is here, 294 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 4: and especially how finite our time with our elders is here, 295 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 4: And so to have to then remind myself, like, I'm 296 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 4: here because I'm spending time with meta Alas and I'm 297 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 4: collecting everything that I can from them, and I want 298 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: to commemorate their legacy, to be the person that tells 299 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 4: my family's history, and that requires me being here and 300 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: creating here and working here. But then it's also the 301 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 4: critique is valid. You know of folks who come into 302 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: Mexico with the leverage of earning US dollars, and some 303 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 4: people are very responsible with that, you know, like if 304 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 4: you're earning dollars and you're here haggling with a woman 305 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 4: who's selling her is like, please don't, like, please don't. 306 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 4: So it's a bit complicated, and I think, like I've 307 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 4: been having a lot of illuminating conversations over the last 308 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 4: couple of years because of that, and a lot of 309 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 4: Mahicanos didn't necessarily understand what the experience would be like 310 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 4: for us who are on the other side, because aik Abatiya, 311 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 4: who's like who expresses she felt like we abandoned the 312 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 4: family by moving to the US. Yeah, exactly. 313 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 5: I know your work, and you're someone who's like navigated 314 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 5: the industry and like the big creative American cities. You know, 315 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 5: like you lived in La you spent some time in 316 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 5: New York. What was Mexico city like from an industry 317 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 5: point of view? 318 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, the first time I came to Mexico was spring 319 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 4: of twenty eighteen for Ceremonia. 320 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 5: Cinemonia is a popular music festival that now takes place 321 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 5: in Mexico City every year. 322 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 4: One of the artists that I was working with at 323 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 4: the time was making his Mexico City debut here, and 324 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 4: so I was really grateful that the industry actually welcomed 325 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 4: us with open arms. It feels very familiar in a 326 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 4: way too, and so come that same feeling of like 327 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 4: Dalida that you get from your family, you tend to 328 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 4: get here as well of having people invite us to 329 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 4: their homes, like sitting at their tables, inviting us to 330 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 4: like their favorite places to eat, or then getting to 331 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 4: meet my family in the process, et cetera. It was 332 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 4: like a mixed bag of both. I think, you know, 333 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 4: it's different when you go to New York. At least 334 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 4: for me, it's very much like point A to point B. 335 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 4: You're getting your things done. But I think there's a 336 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 4: lot more room for fun here and to actually enjoy 337 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 4: enjoy life here. And I think that's something that you 338 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 4: see a vass difference between Mexico and the States, is 339 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 4: that people actually take the time to enjoy their life. 340 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 4: Whether it's like you know, like when you're running on 341 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 4: Mexican time, like it isn't just because people are just 342 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 4: running lates, because people are just like enjoying themselves and 343 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 4: are actually present and living in the moment. And so 344 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 4: I think that was my pleasant surprise with understanding the 345 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 4: industry here in Mexico. Like, yeah, of course people are 346 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 4: dedicated to their craft and to what they want to 347 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 4: bring into this world and uplift, but they're also having 348 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 4: a great time while doing it. 349 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 5: Antonia for Chilangos themselves, For locals, how do they feel 350 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 5: about all of the US immigrants. Are they excited that 351 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 5: there's more there? Are they annoyed? Like what's the response 352 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 5: from Chilangos. 353 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 8: I think Chilangos are not annoyed anymore. I think theyre's 354 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 8: sort of like maybe even a little bit arrogant. But 355 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 8: you know, it's like a little funny to see Gringo's 356 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 8: so excited about Mexico. And also at the same time 357 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 8: there's I mean, there's very different obviously, like Gredingos here 358 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 8: there are I mean, I always a couple, a bunch 359 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 8: of friends, there's a bunch of good artists, and then 360 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 8: there's like the very touristy tourists. 361 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: I love the fact that Antonella is like they're a 362 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: little bit arrogant, and I'm like, wait, Mexico City people 363 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: being arrogant. Never Actually, that is the thing about Mexico 364 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: City people. Chilangos always have been, always will be humble, loving, inviting, 365 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: but absolute. Tamos tambien, which is why we love them. 366 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: So does the Mexican dream. It's when you're in Mexico, Like, 367 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: is that kind of where your head is at? What 368 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: does it really mean to you? And you know, I'm 369 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: thinking about this all the time, not only for me 370 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: but for my kids, and as you know, Antonia, I'm 371 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: actually gathering material to tell my own story of getting 372 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: my Mexican citizenship back. Wow, like just getting my Mexican 373 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: citizenship back so that I can start a different kind 374 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: of life in Mexico and in the United States. 375 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: So my kids will be impacted by this. 376 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: This is like an active conversation that I'm having about 377 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: my relationship to Mexico and how I deepen this relationship. 378 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: Is the dottis, how are you feeling about this? Lociente 379 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: seeing Siluciento. I think I came into living in Mexico 380 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: with a very open stance. I mean, I've been spending 381 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: a lot of time in Mexico over the last ten years, 382 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: now I feel like a bit of survivor's guilt of 383 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: being able to experience what I am experiencing now, but 384 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: knowing that. 385 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 4: I am exactly where I need to be right now. 386 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 4: To give a bit of context, my brother was deported 387 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 4: ten years ago and he was forcibly moved to Tijuana, 388 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 4: was dropped off in Tijuana. My brother came to the 389 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 4: States at two years old and was deported at twenty nine. 390 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 4: And then at that time, I was graduating college, and 391 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 4: I was the only person who could cross the border 392 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 4: to bring him leftovers from Thanksgiving, to bring him Christmas presents, 393 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 4: to bring bad Christmas presents for his daughters who are 394 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 4: in the States. And so I've had this very complicated 395 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 4: relationship with splitting my life in between both countries, more 396 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 4: so seeing myself as I guess this bridge than this connector. 397 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 4: And I think that's a lot of my purpose of 398 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 4: being cheered than Mexico and Istesueno cou getto complete is 399 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 4: to maybe give context for both sides, to humanize the 400 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 4: immigrant experiences and those who had to live in the 401 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 4: US and documented, and to I think give context to 402 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 4: our families that were left back in Mexico and Now 403 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 4: that I'm here a couple of years in, you know, 404 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 4: I still feel like I am open with whatever way 405 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 4: that that life wants to take me into you and 406 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 4: I have to trust that my life has has moved 407 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 4: me to places that I didn't think I would be 408 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 4: moved to. Pa I'm going to enjoy this Mexican dream 409 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 4: as long as I can, and as I meant to, 410 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 4: and as I'm welcome to. Well. 411 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 5: Thank you so much to Notoris Anai Munos, who is 412 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 5: an artist, activist and music supervisor living in Mexico City, 413 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 5: and to Antonia cultural organizer and gallerist who was born 414 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 5: in and works out of Mexico City as well. 415 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: Gracias Doris, Gracias Antonella. And we're having tacos barados one hundred. 416 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm so down for that. 417 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: I way Mexico City. 418 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 5: This was so fun. We next time we see each 419 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 5: other has to be in Mexico City. 420 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 4: Let us know. 421 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: Coming up next week on our collaboration with LAist. Donald 422 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: Trump won a record share of Latino support in the 423 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: last presidential election, so there's a lot of finger pointing 424 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,959 Speaker 1: going on our Latino advocacy groups and polling firms helping 425 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: or hurting the Democratic Party cause there's a cultural problem 426 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party, there's a data problem. 427 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: There's an ideological problem, and a cottage industry has been 428 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: built to perpetuate. 429 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: That inside the high stakes debate over the future of 430 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: Latino political power in the United States. The host of 431 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: Imperfect Paradise from LA's Studios is Antonia Serejido. This episode 432 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: was edited by our Maria Garcia and Marlon Bishop. Senior 433 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: producer for this episode is Natalie Chanowski. Production help from 434 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: Monica Morales, Garcia and James Chao. It was mixed by 435 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso and jj Carubin from Latino USA. 436 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Guire. Catherine Mailhouse 437 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: is the executive producer of Imperfect Paradise and the director 438 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: of content Development. The Latino USA team also includes Fernanda Echawari, 439 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrella, Dominique Estrosa, Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea 440 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: Lopez Gruzado, Luis Luna Doori, mar Marquez Marta Martinez, Dasha Sandoval, 441 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: Nur Saudi, and Nancy Trujillo, Benni, Leamidias, Marlon Bishop, Mario 442 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: Garcia and I are co executive producers and I'm your 443 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: host Maria Noovosa Pastella Proxima dotevayas Chao. 444 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 5: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment, 445 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 5: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians. 446 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 4: The Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more 447 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 4: at hsfoundation dot org and the Ford Foundation, working with 448 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 4: visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide.