1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: me Tommy Diderio. Today's guest is the brilliant Matthew Lopez. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: He's a director, a screenwriter, and a Tony Award winning playwright. 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: And on top of that, Tony add on maybe six 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: or seven other noteworthy awards for his play The Inheritance, 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: which I was lucky enough to see on Broadway, and 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: I was so incredibly moved by, and being the theater 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: geek that I am, I also saw another show he 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: co wrote, which was the musical adaptation for Some Like 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: It Hot, also fantastic. But today we are diving into 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: Red White and Royal Blue, one of the most anticipated 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: movies of the year that Matthew co wrote and directed. Now, 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: this film is an adaptation of the best selling novel 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: by Casey mcquisten, and I would say it's arguably one 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: of the most popular books ever written. So here's the story. 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Alex is the son of the American President, and he 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: is in a feud with Prince Henry of Britain and 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: at one event that they both are attending, that few 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: becomes pretty public when it comes to a head. So 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: to prevent a wedge from being driven into the US 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: and British relations, Alex and Prince Henry are forced to 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: stage a truce that well it, you know, sparks something 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: unexpected and deeper than anyone could have imagined. And I 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: think you can guess some love ensues. Matthew brings this 25 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: queer love story from the pages to the screen in 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: the most beautiful way. And let's just say, while watching this, yeah, 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: I shed quite a few tears. I know, I know, 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: I am a sucker for love. What can I say? 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: So let's see if today we can get Matthew to 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: say something that he's never said before. Matthew, how are you, 31 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: my friend? 32 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: I'm doing really well. 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: Thanks good. I'm so happy you're here. I know you've 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: had a crazy few days. You've been on a whirlwind 35 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: tour for this movie, which but we're going to get 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: all into I have to tell you, Ah, what can 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: I say that will truly convey what it felt like 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: watching this movie in that theater on Monday night at 39 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: the screening, I mean, my husband and I went crazy 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: over it. We laughed, we cried, we cheered, all the 41 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: things and more. You did such a brilliant job with 42 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: this movie. Congratulations, Thank you, thank you. I know it's 43 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: your first film. Why did you want to make Red, White, 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: and Royal Blue? 45 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: It was about February, February twenty twenty and my agent 46 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 3: sent me the book, and I had just opened Inheritance 47 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: on Broadway, and I was looking to do something new. 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: I wanted to start looking for a film to make, 49 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 3: and then this book came along, and I just knew 50 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 3: about page fifty, I kind of knew that this was 51 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: the thing I wanted to do, and it was. And 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 3: then the rest of the book was essentially me already 53 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: starting to figure out how I might be able to 54 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: make a film work out of this book. And I 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: found out that Greg Burlanti, who was one of the 56 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: producers of The Inheritance, had acquired the Riots, and I 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 3: lobbied him and Sarah Schechter, his business partner, and eventually, 58 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 3: you know, they came to me and said, yeah, let's 59 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: do this. And I then that became the last two 60 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 3: and a half years of my life. I really really 61 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: responded so so much to the optimism of the book. 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 3: I really loved the fact that it was this queer 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 3: romance with a happy ending and with really idiosyncratic vibrant characters. 64 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: I love that there was a latinae bisexual, Southern boy 65 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: in the lead. 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: You know, there's so much I could relate to in 67 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: this book. 68 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: And you know, when you contemplate spending two years working 69 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: on something. 70 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: You had better really like it, and you better really 71 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: be excited about it, or you better really be excit. 72 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: I did about the paycheck, I guess, But for me, 73 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: I really needed my first film to be something that 74 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: I was passionate about, that I was going to sacrifice 75 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: sleep for. 76 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: And this was it for sure. 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: So you said you were reading it and then fifty 78 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: pages in you knew you had to make this a movie. 79 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: What was that defining moment for you? 80 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 3: I probably the fans of the book will tell me 81 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: how wrong I am at this, So it's probably not 82 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: at page fifty. 83 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: But their first kiss. 84 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: I think the way the gway Casey described the first 85 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 3: kiss was so cinematic. 86 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: I could see the movie. The movie was just unschooling. 87 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: In my head as I was reading it, And I 88 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 3: love that it was this you know, a kid, a 89 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: New Year's even snowy white house grounds. 90 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: I thought there was something. 91 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: Just inherently cinematic about about so much of the book, 92 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: and I really kind of fell for the swoony, romantic 93 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: quality of Casey's writing. 94 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the two leads bring this story to life brilliantly. 95 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: I know you spent five or six months auditioning hundreds 96 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: of different actors. You found Taylor, you found Nicholas. Why 97 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: were they the right guys to play these roles? 98 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: It's funny, after having made the film with them, it's 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: almost becomes really difficult to explain why they're the most 100 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: the perfect guys in the roles because they are just 101 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 2: simply now the roles. You forget what the casting process 102 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: was like. 103 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: And I've had to really go back and actually watched 104 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 3: some of their auditions recently, and I remember watching Nick 105 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: audition and working with Nick. He really convinced me that 106 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 3: what Henry needed was a caretaker, and what Nick was 107 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: able to do as the actor playing the role was 108 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 3: less inhabit him than care for him. 109 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: He really really protected Henry. He really felt very protective 110 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: of Henry. 111 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: I think as an actor saw his job as being 112 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 3: someone who had to just sort of create a roll 113 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 3: around Henry and keep bad things from happening to him. 114 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 3: And there was such an enormous well of compassion for. 115 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: Henry, and I knew that with Nick, I was leaving. 116 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 3: This character in very good hands, and I could I 117 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 3: could I didn't need to worry about Henry, and I 118 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 3: could worry. 119 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 2: I could focus on of the things. 120 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 4: And with Taylor, Taylor has this ability to transform himself, 121 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 4: both his body and his energy into something else. 122 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: He's a real. 123 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: Chameleon and he's a shape shifter. 124 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: And when I started reading him for this role, I 125 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: could see Alex just sort of springing to life. And 126 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 3: and so there's it's funny. There's this very complimentary energy 127 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 3: that they have as actors, at least on this film, 128 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: that Nick was very sort of internal and Taylor was 129 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 3: very external. There was some sort of inward energy coming 130 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: toward Nick and there was some outward energy coming from Taylor, 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 3: and so that independently of each other, they were already 132 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 3: without having met, we're creating these very complimentary performances, just 133 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: even in the auditions. 134 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: And then I put them in on a zoom. 135 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: Together to do a chemistry read and just sort of 136 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: like praying and hoping that oh my God, you know, please, 137 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: please please. 138 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 5: Just if it's not true, give me enough that I 139 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 5: can fake it, you know, and they didn't need I 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 5: didn't need to fake anything and neither today. 141 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: It was just there from the beginning. It was it 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: was I mean, it's gonna sound stupid to say it, 143 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: but it just sounded like fate. It just was so perfect. 144 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: They were the characters, They became the characters more and 145 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 3: more throughout the audition process, and then when we got 146 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: into this chemistry read they just clicked instantly. So the 147 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: one hand, it was incredibly thorough this process, both on 148 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: my part and theirs, I would say, and then it 149 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: just clicked and became incredibly easy and simple and straightforward. 150 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: Wow wow, Yeah, their chemistry is incredible in the film. 151 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: And I know you guys spent about two weeks rehearsing 152 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: and prepping prior to shooting, which I know isn't always common, 153 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: and I think that's really cool you took the time 154 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: to do that. Was there anything that happened in those 155 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: rehearsals that maybe influenced to change then, you know, from 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: something you originally thought that it was going to be 157 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: a certain way. 158 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I you know, on a film like this 159 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 3: with these two leads, I knew that there was going 160 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 3: to be a point in which I needed to be 161 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: the boss or sometimes just sort of sort of have 162 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: a firm hand on things. And I knew that these 163 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: two weeks were really invaluable for us, both in terms 164 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 3: for the two of them to really get to know 165 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: each other and to really feel comfortable with one another, 166 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 3: but then also for me to give them an opportunity 167 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 3: to challenge anything that was in the script, anything that 168 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: was part of the plan for the shooting of the film. 169 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 3: I needed to give them a lot of agency, because 170 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: I needed then to take it away from them once 171 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 3: we started building it anyway, and this was an opportunity 172 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: for us to sort of like it was almost like 173 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: the whole thing was like an open source code. And 174 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 3: for two weeks, the three of us really worked together 175 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: to devise what this thing was going to be. We 176 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: tried different avenues, we tried different ways of doing it. 177 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: We blocked scenes, we ran scenes. There are a few 178 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 3: scenes in the movie that are as filmed and as edited, 179 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 3: are exactly how we rehearsed them in terms of the blocking, 180 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: in terms of what this thing is about. 181 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 2: This this lovely, tiny. 182 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: Little moment in the scene where in Alex's bedroom, which 183 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: is one of my favorite scenes in the movie for them, 184 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: and it's in Alex's bedroom after they hook up for 185 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 3: the first time. 186 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: In the blocking in in the movie that you see 187 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: is precisely what we did. 188 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: It was the very last day of rehearsals and this 189 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: little sort of moment where they talk over each other 190 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: near the end of it and it's kind of suddenly 191 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 3: gets awkward again. That just happened one day in rehearsal, 192 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: and I remember clocking that and on set I actually was. 193 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: I had a video of the rehearsal and they did it. 194 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 3: I showed it to them before we shot the scene. 195 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 3: I'm like, do you remember this from nine weeks ago? 196 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: And so I come from theater. 197 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 3: I you know, rehearsals are invaluable for creating, for inventing. 198 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: There's some there's there are times, and especially on a 199 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: film like this, where your ability to invent on set 200 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 3: is very limited, And I needed to get their imaginations firing, 201 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 3: and I needed that to allow my imagination to fire too. 202 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: So I think it's what made that. 203 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: Those two weeks are absolutely what made what is special 204 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: on screen between them possible. 205 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: And what I love about you is I could feel 206 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: it through the screen. You have so much pride in 207 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: the work that they did. Your beaming when you talk 208 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: about it, which I think, I. 209 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 3: Feel like a proud parent, I really do, because I mean, 210 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: the thing is is that this movie is only as good. 211 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: This movie would only ever been as good as my 212 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 3: ability to get natural, easy performances out of them. And 213 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: one of the things that I'm really really proud of 214 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: in this film across the board is how relaxed everybody is. 215 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 3: And it starts with Taylor and Nick. There is such 216 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 3: an ease about them that really just permeates every scene 217 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: of the film. And Yeah, I'm incredibly proud, I think, 218 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 3: you know, one of the one of the great pleasures 219 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: and challenges of this process was editing the film because 220 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 3: it was a wealth of options, you know, and and 221 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 3: there's a whole other version of this movie which I 222 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 3: could assemble out of alternate takes, and and it would 223 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: be it would be a different movie, you know. 224 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely very proud of those two. 225 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of people want to see 226 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: those deleted scenes. 227 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 3: Let's get the non deleted scenes out into the world first, 228 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 3: and then we'll see what happens. 229 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough. There was a moment in the 230 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: film for me that that blew me away between between 231 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: Nick and Taylor. For you, I'm sure this is such 232 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: a tough question. There were many, But is there one 233 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: moment that you're just so blown away by? 234 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: There are so many. 235 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 3: I did give the example of that scene in the bedroom, 236 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: which is just for me in terms of their chemistry 237 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: is so is so beautiful. I have to say that 238 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 3: the confrontation scene in Henry's bedroom was I think it 239 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: was something that we were all dreading at filming because 240 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: we knew what it was going to cost all of us. 241 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: And I knew that, I mean practically speaking the filmmaker, 242 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 3: and as a filmmaker, I knew I had other things 243 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 3: to do that day, so I also couldn't like indulge 244 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: in too long a process on set for that scene. 245 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: But I also knew I couldn't leave until I got 246 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: what I needed. And we did it maybe two thirds 247 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: of the way through the shoot, and it's longer than 248 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 3: we expected it to and I actually there there's a 249 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: couple of things that I didn't shoot that day because 250 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: I just just cut them right out and we had 251 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 3: to break for lunch and I was and we hadn't 252 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: finished the scene and I was really really worried that 253 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: we were going to come back from lunch and all 254 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 3: I was just gonna have lost them, you know, and 255 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 3: we would never recapture what was happening on set before lunch. 256 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: And and it was the move, It. 257 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: Was the pivotal part of the scene is the end 258 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 3: when they're when the sort of when Alex Nix's ultimatum 259 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 3: to Henry. 260 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 6: And we got back on set and we got we. 261 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 3: Started filming again, and instantly in the first take after lunch, 262 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: Taylor started crying and Nick was facing away from him 263 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 3: and he heard Taylor and Nick started crying, and and 264 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 3: the back half of that scene is so beautiful because 265 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: they're doing such great work. And I really had a 266 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 3: difficult time cutting it because there was such beautiful, nuanced 267 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 3: work from all from both of them. But what to 268 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 3: me it was so remarkable about it is they had 269 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: just had lunch, They just and they came right back 270 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 3: into it and they were more dialed in and they 271 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: were more in touch with each other than before, and 272 00:14:58,360 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: it was truly it was. 273 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: It was pretty remarkable. And I have to say that 274 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: was the moment. 275 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 3: I knew that whatever happened with this movie these those 276 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: two actors would be fine in their career. 277 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was the scene I was thinking of 278 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: as well. It was It was pretty remarkable. I can't 279 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: wait for people to see that one. Was there a 280 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: scene or two from the book that you thought, okay, man, 281 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: I better get this just right. 282 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: There was well, the case scene, of course, you know, 283 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: I think that for many reasons. It's the opening of 284 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: the film. 285 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: It really establishes the characters so much. But it's also 286 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 3: just the most iconic moment in the book, one of 287 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 3: the most iconic moments of the book, And so there 288 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: were a million reasons why I knew I needed to 289 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 3: get it right. And it was also the most technical 290 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 3: thing I had filmed up to that point. It was 291 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 3: I think we shot it in our second week, and 292 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 3: you know, the first few days of filming were pretty 293 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 3: gentle on me and ever buddy, and then we had. 294 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: This two day shoot inside the ballroom with this cake, 295 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: with these extras, with all of these other scene elements 296 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: that were happening, and then on day two we had 297 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: to drop this cake had get them all mucky, and 298 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: it had to be funny and it had to be 299 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 2: technically accurate. That was the one that I was really 300 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: really uptied about because there was. 301 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 3: No margin for error and there were lots of opportunities 302 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: for air. So, you know, that was that was the 303 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 3: most technical filmmaking we did on it. And the funny 304 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 3: thing is is that when it came to the actual 305 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: shot of the cake going into their faces, because that 306 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: whole cake was was was was not. It was foam, 307 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: rubber and latex, and so for the most part, the 308 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: cake is phony and it's just. 309 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: It's just, you know, it's it's it's a fake cake. 310 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: And so we could do a lot with it and 311 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: drop it and it just bounced and then you could 312 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 3: drop it again. But when it came to getting them dirty, 313 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: we had a couple of duplicate costumes for them, and 314 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 3: there was a plan to get them showered and hair 315 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 3: and make up redone as fast as possible, but I 316 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 3: just knew that I was going to lose too much 317 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 3: time and I needed to just get it done in 318 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 3: as few takes as possible. And it was me and 319 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 3: my production designer off camera, and we were, you know, 320 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: at the count three, we threw the cake and the 321 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 3: icing into their faces and it was a bullseye. 322 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: Wow, it was an absolute bullseye, and we watched it 323 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: and we. 324 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: Just decided to keep moving on and we had it, 325 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: so I lecked out. 326 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: That was the luckiest break on this entire. 327 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: Film was getting the cake in their faces the first take, 328 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 3: the first and only take. 329 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it. And then the one that I 330 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: was really excited to do was the VNA scene at 331 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 2: the Victoria and Albert Museum. Scene at night in the museum. 332 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: It just beautiful, was the scene. 333 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 2: That's my favorite scene in the book. 334 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: And when he clicked that music on, come on, come on, Yeah, yeah, that. 335 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,239 Speaker 2: Was that was That was That was the one I 336 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 2: was most looking forward to. 337 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: That was that was we were locked into the v 338 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: N a overnight. 339 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: We we we had it all to ourselves. 340 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 3: It was pretty magical, and it was just the two 341 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: of them, you know, there were no there were no extras. 342 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: There was a very you know, the crew had you know, 343 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: the crew. 344 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 3: We were just all like a family at that point. 345 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: And so it was a real night at the museum. 346 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 3: And then you know, picking up music because I know 347 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 3: in the book it's Elton John's your song, and which 348 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 3: I knew and instinctively wasn't gonna work for us. 349 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: In the film. 350 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: It just wasn't the right sound, uh, And so we 351 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 3: auditioned a lot of different songs, and on set we 352 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 3: used that one. We used the Perfect Genius and had 353 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: my Perfect. 354 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: Genius was gonna do a new cover of an older. 355 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 3: Song for us that we really were excited about. And 356 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 3: then I cut together the assembly of the film and 357 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: we watched the scene with Perfect Geniuses Can Help falling 358 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 3: in Love, and we knew it was the right song 359 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 3: and it was perfect. And so that was another lucky 360 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 3: break because the song that we just decided to use 361 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: on set was the song we ended up using the film. 362 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: I think that song is gonna sore to number one. 363 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: So it's a beautiful recording. It's an absolutely. 364 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And I have to tell you when 365 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: I put up a story on Monday night saying that 366 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: I saw the movie and I screened it in and 367 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: it was great, I had so many people message me, 368 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: people I haven't even spoken to him forever, and I 369 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: was shocked at how many of those people were straight. 370 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: This story, this book has such a built in fandom 371 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: from all areas and walks of life. I don't feel 372 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: like you're the type of person that lets that pressure 373 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: sneak in when you making your art, when you're making 374 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: your project, when you made the movie. But how do 375 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: you kind of not let that cloud your mind when 376 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: you are creating this movie, knowing that there's so many 377 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: people who are waiting and wanting and loving this. 378 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: I learned I. 379 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: Think I learned in theater that worrying about what other 380 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 3: people think is just really a pointless exercise. You really 381 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 3: you only have, especially on a film, you only have 382 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 3: one chance to get it right. You're only in that 383 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 3: you're only on that set one day. You got to 384 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 3: move on to the next scene. You're always just moving forward. 385 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 3: And so you really on a film set, you are 386 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 3: living in the present. There's no past, there's no future, 387 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 3: and that is actually incredibly helpful. 388 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: For focus, you know, and I need that. I think 389 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: it's just sort of the typrote thing. If you look down, 390 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 2: you're gonna fall. 391 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 3: I didn't think about ultimately what anybody would think of 392 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 3: the film. 393 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: I just kept following my gut and following my instincts. 394 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: I knew, I knew this story. I knew and look, 395 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: it's my version of red, white, and moral blue. Right, 396 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 2: It's it's not anybody else's. 397 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 3: It's not case It's not even Casey's, and Casey will 398 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: be the first two minute Casey's. Casey's book is Casey's book, 399 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 3: and my movie is my movie. It's my movie based 400 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 3: on Casey's book, and it is my reaction to Casey's book. 401 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 3: And the things that I love about Casey's book are 402 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: what I put into the movie. And I knew that 403 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 3: I would own it regardless, so I might as well 404 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 3: do it in exactly the way that my instinct tells 405 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: me to do and not worry about what other people 406 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: would it. 407 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: Man, that must be incredibly freeing. And I read a 408 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: quote you gave in a different interview and you said, 409 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: love it or hate it, it's the movie I set 410 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: out to make. That doesn't always happen. I love that quote. 411 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. I look. 412 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: The one thing that is really true about this process 413 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: is that I was surrounded by incredibly talented people across 414 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 3: the board. 415 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 2: This cast is a dream cast. 416 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 3: I worked with one of the legendary cinematographers in the business. 417 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: I mean, Stephen Goldblatt was this cinematographer Angels in America, 418 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 3: and in addition to the Cotton Club, which is a 419 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 3: forgotten gem of Francis Coppola's. 420 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: But I never ever felt. 421 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 3: As if I had to do this on my own, 422 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 3: and I never felt that I did not have my 423 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 3: It was really remarkable that every single idea I have 424 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 3: was executed perfectly. And you know, look, the things that 425 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 3: we knew weren't going to work physically or within budget, 426 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: we adjusted because that's just filmmaking. But it really the 427 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 3: movie I dreamed of in my head when I started 428 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: working on this film is largely up there on the screen. 429 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: Well. And one thing I love that you chose to do, 430 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: I imagine pretty strategically, is this movie doesn't shy away from 431 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: being sexy. You have these intimate scenes and they're beautiful, 432 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: and you actually feel like you're watching a couple having 433 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: a loving moment. And sometimes I feel like in content 434 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: that's for the queer community, you kind of get the 435 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: water down version of that and you don't always get 436 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: to see those moments of true, deep passionate love. Was 437 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: that something important for you to show between the two 438 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: gentlemen deeply deeply? 439 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 3: I think you know one or two things usually ends 440 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 3: up being true, not always, And those other movies and 441 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 3: those other scenes stand out as a result. But either 442 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 3: it's a scene that is you can tell it's a 443 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 3: straight filmmaker making the scene, or you know that it's 444 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 3: a straight audience for whom the scene is being ultimately considered. 445 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 3: And it's sort of like generally, I think in the past, 446 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 3: a lot of it has, especially in studio movie, a 447 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 3: lot of it is, you know, don't scare the straits, 448 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 3: and there was none of that on this film. 449 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: And I don't know if it was because I. 450 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 3: Don't know, I don't know why, but I did not 451 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 3: get any resistance to my plans for this thing. 452 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: I also made it very clear at the beginning. I said, 453 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: you know, if you hire me, this is going to 454 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: be in the movie. 455 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 3: So if you don't want it to be in the movie, 456 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: you should find somebody else to make this film. And 457 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 3: I was very upfront about it because I didn't want 458 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 3: to have any arguments later. 459 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: And what was really important. 460 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 7: To me is is I really wanted to I really 461 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 7: wanted to do two things which I'd never I hadn't 462 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 7: seen much of in film. I wanted to show two 463 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 7: men having sex in a way that is loving, that 464 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 7: is connected, that is that is pleasurable, and that is 465 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 7: is beautiful, and I also wanted to film a sex 466 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 7: whose geography and whose physical execution of makes sense to 467 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 7: people who know. 468 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: How to have gay sex. So I needed it. 469 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 3: To both be incredibly accurate physically, and I also needed 470 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: it to be incredibly to the point where we are 471 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 3: in the story. I needed it to be focused on 472 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 3: the characters. I needed it to be focused on their journey. 473 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 3: And so we applied both seemingly oppositional desires. 474 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: To the scene and it ended up being the scene 475 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: that's in the film. 476 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, they're beautiful scenes. I'm happy you suck to 477 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: your instinct and your guts on that. I was surprised 478 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: that the movie and I know you share the same sentiment. 479 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: Got to rate it, are, I guess because of the 480 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: sex scenes. But that surprised me. 481 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I say it surprised me. And then 482 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: also it didn't surprise me. 483 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 3: You know, it's sort of like, you know, I think 484 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: in the perfect world that maybe sometimes still exists in 485 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: my head, it surprised me. 486 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: And then in the reality that I live in, it didn't. 487 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: It's like not surprising at all. It's I think that 488 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: it's just it's two things it's. 489 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 3: I just if it had been a man and a woman, 490 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: if it hadn't been a gay couple, I really don't 491 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 3: think that scene would have garnered the R rating, But 492 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 3: let's even pretend that that that maybe it would have. 493 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: What is more depressing to. 494 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 3: Me actually is the fact that it is sexuality that 495 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 3: got us the R rating. And you you can name 496 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: a dozen movies that are incredibly violent, far more violent 497 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 3: movies than my film is sexual that RPG thirteen. So 498 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 3: I think even if you set aside latent homophobia or 499 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,239 Speaker 3: over homophobia, you're still left with the problem that the 500 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 3: NPAA favors violence over sexuality. They prefer American audiences see 501 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 3: acts of violence than acts of love, and that's really 502 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 3: fucked up. Yeah, and I think that it's it may 503 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: be overdue for a reassessment of the use of the NPAA. 504 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,959 Speaker 3: I don't know what its function is anymore, and I 505 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 3: think it might be a little outdated. 506 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, which is all the more reason why 507 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: a movie like this is important with the choices you 508 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: made artistically, because it's going to show people that this 509 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: is content people want to see, and they're going to 510 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: line up to see it, and there's no problem with it. So, yeah, 511 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, you are. 512 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 3: Living in the same country that we did when the 513 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 3: NPAA was over right, right, I feel like the. 514 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 2: Standards are still being applied to the. 515 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: Probably I would imagine the nineteen sixties or early seventies 516 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 3: is when the MPAA was probably founded. I don't know 517 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: that off the top of my head, but you know, 518 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 3: we're not living in that world anymore. And I don't 519 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 3: see anything in this film that actually anybody who isn't 520 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 3: at least thirteen, couldn't couldn't. 521 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: Watch, you know. Yeah, so but hey, that's me. What 522 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: do I know? 523 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: No, I agree. I think it's a film for everybody. 524 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: And like I said, I'm glad you made the choices 525 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: you made, Matthew. I imagine doing a movie like this is 526 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: so gratifying on a million different levels and in a 527 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: million different ways. But personally, what do you learn about 528 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,479 Speaker 1: yourself through making your very first movie like this? 529 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 2: Well? 530 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 3: I learned that I could get by on a lot 531 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 3: less sleep than I ever imagined. 532 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: I look. I think that. 533 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: Hollywood has for the last several years been going through 534 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: a reassessment of what is acceptable behavior for people with power, 535 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: And there is no person in Hollywood at a certain 536 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 3: point in any filmmaking process, more powerful on any given 537 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: day than the director of a film. And my two 538 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: mentors in this business were Stephen Daldry and Tom Fontana 539 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 3: is one of the great TV showrunners. And they both 540 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: operate in the world from a place of kindness, and 541 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 3: they operate in this world from the place of really 542 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 3: wanting to help people do their best work. And when 543 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 3: you're on when you're working with Stephen or you're working with. 544 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: Tom, you're working, but you're always. 545 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 3: Valued, you're always asked how you're doing, and you're always 546 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 3: having fun. And it was something that I I think 547 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 3: I maybe unconsciously brought with me into the process of 548 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 3: doing this. And there were days when I was frustrated. 549 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 3: There are days when I got angry. There were days 550 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 3: when something didn't work and it was somebody's fault and 551 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: you could actually find someone. 552 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 2: To blame for it. 553 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: And my instincts always in the time of stress or 554 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 3: to get angry. But my actions, I learned, were much 555 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 3: more effective if I didn't. 556 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: And it's so easy to be. 557 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 3: Awful, and it is so hard sometimes to be kind, 558 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: And yet I discovered through exercising the lessons that I 559 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: learned from Stephen and Tom on hopefully a daily basis 560 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 3: that you really really do get the best work out 561 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 3: of people. If you create a warm, loving, safe environment 562 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 3: for them. You can push them harder to do scarier things. 563 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 3: You can make something that is seemingly impossible possible. Weirdly, 564 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: I also think it saves your time. So I learned 565 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 3: about myself that my mentors were right, and that I 566 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: also learned about myself that I have more of a 567 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 3: capacity to be understanding of people than I ever imagined. 568 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: And I know that sounds like I'm in some ways 569 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: boasting or tuning my own horn or whatever. 570 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: But I think if. 571 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 3: Anybody knows me, knows that I'm I'm pretty driven and 572 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 3: I can be tough, and I can be tough on myself. 573 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 3: But I hope also that people know that I that I. 574 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 3: I hope I have a reputation for being loving and 575 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 3: kind and caring and that battle within anybody between those 576 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 3: two instincts. I sort of wage that internally on this 577 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 3: movie and love love always wins. 578 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: Man. 579 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I love that I do. What a great 580 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: realization to have through through doing your work. That's so cool. 581 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: And I think man, we all need to tap into 582 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: more of the kindness thing in this world, in society. 583 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: It's very important. 584 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be nice. It would be really nice. 585 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 3: And it applies in all things, in all ways, and 586 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 3: not just in this business. And it applies to our 587 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 3: discourse and the way we treat other people on social media, 588 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: the way we treat other people. 589 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 2: At the supermarket, right everywhere. 590 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, right on with that, Matthew. The last question for 591 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: you is off the title of the show, which is 592 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: I've never said this before, So I would love to 593 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: know something that you have never said before that you 594 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: would like to share. It can be deep, it can 595 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: be silly, it can be anything you want. 596 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: I've never said this before, but I used to want 597 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: to be president of the United States, Do you really? 598 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 2: I really did. 599 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 3: When I was about between the ages of about fifteen 600 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 3: and seventeen, maybe eighteen, I just fell so passionately in 601 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: love with politics, and I was a big We've read 602 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 3: the New York Times at that age, and I watched 603 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 3: CNN constantly, and I just wanted to be if not 604 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 3: president then like proximal to the president, or maybe a 605 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 3: senator or a congressman. 606 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: I just wanted to be in politics. 607 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 6: And then I discovered that I liked kissing guys. I 608 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 6: at that time in my life and that time, in 609 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 6: this kind of she's life, I knew, well, I could 610 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 6: either I could either kiss guys or run for president. 611 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 2: And and the boys won. What can I say? 612 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 3: So it's funny because when I was thinking about that question, 613 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 3: I was trying to figure out what's how to answer, 614 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: and and I remember giving an interview about being on 615 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 3: the Oval Office set, and I just I remember actually 616 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 3: sitting behind the desk, you know, before work one day, 617 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 3: and just thinking. I remembered in that moment how I 618 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 3: had these dreams of like I wanted to go to Loss. 619 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: I planned it all. 620 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 3: I was going to get into politics, and then you know, 621 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 3: summer of ninety five, I just. 622 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: Well, I mean never say never, though, right, you know? 623 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,439 Speaker 2: I mean sure, never say never. 624 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 3: I'd rather maybe make donations to queer candidates and let 625 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: other people. 626 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: Do that themselves. 627 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: Fair enough, that's an awesome answer. So were you geeking 628 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: extra hard at Uma Thurman as president? 629 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: God? Are you kidding me? 630 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 3: It was like I think Uma and I were both 631 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 3: geeking together about it. Like people would never say this, 632 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 3: but I saw her sit behind that desk and she's 633 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 3: sort of like she had an idea or two about 634 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 3: what she could do after this movie. I think that 635 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 3: you what I absolutely can say, even on a sound 636 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 3: stage in London, you walk into even an approximation of 637 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 3: the Oval Office and you really do feel this immense 638 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 3: sense of power, this immense sense of history. And I 639 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: mean it was like pol I would and like fake, 640 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 3: like really cheap carpeting, and yet still you can't. 641 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 2: Help but be on, you know. 642 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 3: But I do think that Ellen has a much better 643 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 3: sense of style than Joe Biden. 644 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: I would agree. Well, listen, if in a few years 645 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: from now, ten years, twenty years, I see your name 646 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: on the race, I'm going to pull this interview and say, 647 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: see see you do you do? 648 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: And then I'm going to come to you for big donations. 649 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: All right, Matthew, this was awesome. I like I said, 650 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: I love the movie. You did a fantastic job. I 651 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: think you're such a brilliant artist. As we close out 652 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: the episode, tell people when, how where? How to watch 653 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: this film All the things. 654 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 3: Red, White, and World Blue on Amazon Prime starting August eleventh, 655 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 3: everywhere in the world. 656 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: Amazing, Thank you, my friend. This was so much fun. 657 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate talking to you. Thank you. 658 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is hosted by me, Tommy Diderio. 659 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: This podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli, and 660 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 1: executive producers are Andrew Piglisi and Katrina Norvel at iHeartRadio. 661 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: I've Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis 662 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: Durant podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review 663 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,280 Speaker 1: and subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode, 664 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Diderio.