1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: back to work in progress with Laverne Cox. Let's dive 3 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: back in. One of the things that bothers me, things 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: I think about. You know, a lot in my life 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: is and you said this perfectly. Just now, for trans people, 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: your identity is looked at as being exclusively sexual, and 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: it's the same for queer people. They're like, queer people 8 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to adopt children, Queer people shouldn't be 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: able to get married the children, the children. Seventy three 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: percent of women in America are unalived by violence done 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: to them by current or former intimate partners cis male 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: intimate partners. Most women die by the hand of a man. 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: Most children are abused by their straight or straight identifying 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: father or an family relative. They know these people. It's 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: not gay parents, it's not trans folks. 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: Yet there's not a whole movement saying all men they're like, oh, men, 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: like the like the ninety nine point nine percent of 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: like white men who were mass shooters. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 3: We don't say that. There's like, I mean, some people 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 3: are saying it's a crisis with men, but we have 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 3: to like pass laws that limit the ability of white 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: men to get guns and classify them as terrorists. They're 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 3: actually would kind of be I mean, but to like 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 3: make it about. 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Identity, that would be logical though, but they don't want 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: us to say that. 27 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: Statistically it would make more sense. But still just but 28 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: it's it's an American to say, did like say that 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: you if you're a white man, you, if you're a 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: white man, statistically you are more likely to be a 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: mass shooter based on the data, But like to pass 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 3: to pass a law to say that all white men 33 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: can't be can't get access to guns and need to 34 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: be like put on a terrorist watch list and classified 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: as like people casts like they're trying to do with 36 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: trans people, like when there's maybe like one. 37 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 4: Or two transs. 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 3: I know it's it's I know it's crazy, it's crazy. 39 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: But what I what what I think? Like we're we're 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: in a meta like political space now and I and 41 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: I and I love being there. But I also think 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: that like part of the reason I wrote this book 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: too is that like how do we how do we 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: bring it back to ourselves? 45 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: Yes, because that was going to be my question. 46 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: We can't come together across differences if we have not, 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 3: we're not right with ourselves, if we haven't like gotten 48 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: to a place where we are not allowing our own 49 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: traumas to affect the ways in which we interact with 50 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 3: other people. I feel like sometimes with some of the 51 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: turfs that you know, we'll just say it Supporthand with 52 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: the turfs a lot, there's a lot of trauma. When 53 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: I hear I'll just tracing our name. But the rowling 54 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 3: woman rolling, well, sometimes when I hear a talk and 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 3: I hear I heard real trauma there, I hear like 56 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: a fear, you know, and like trauma that is unprocessed around, 57 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 3: you know, the thought that she experienced. And I have 58 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 3: amity for that. 59 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: Well, she seems to be very red pilled. But what's 60 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: fascinating to me is that anyone would think in a 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: world or men, look at the Epstein files, Look at 62 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: the President of the United States at current and all 63 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: of his allies not being required to testify under oath, 64 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: not being required to testify in public. Men don't have 65 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: to dress up as women to hurt men. Men just 66 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: hurt us. Trans women are not having the level of 67 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: courage to buck a binary that has been created by 68 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: a patriarchal society for hundreds of years as a game. 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: Your identity has nothing to do with other women. It 70 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: has to do with yourself. And trans women are women. 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: And that's what somebody like her, I think cannot comprehend 72 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: because she's clearly never to your point, investigated her own experience, 73 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: her own trauma, or her own freedom to that level. 74 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 3: Then how can we decenter ourselves too. It's like we 75 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 3: have to hole the piece around like dealing with our 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: owning our story, dealing dealing with our trauma, and we're 77 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: responding to that as adults, but also decentering ourselves. It's 78 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: not just about like my feelings and what's going on 79 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: with me. It's like, how do I like look look 80 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 3: out and like not diminish myself but understand that there's 81 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: other perspectives and other ways of seeing. 82 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 4: Things and not in making sure that. 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 3: I don't let my trauma, my whatever allow me to 84 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 3: not have perspective to like look outside myself and not 85 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: like always center myself well. 86 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the healthiest side effects 87 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: of doing the work is in an interesting way, you 88 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: get better at boundaries and you also get more gentle 89 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: with people at the same time, you can make more 90 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: space for people. And I'm curious if we can, like, 91 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: I want to deep dive a few questions specifically on 92 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: the book, because I'm like, girl, we need to like 93 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: sit with a bottle of line and have this political 94 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: conversation for four hours over a good Italian meal. But 95 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: the book in particular, when you think about that, because 96 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: choosing to go inward and do this project is so personal, 97 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: and you do it essentially in these three gorgeous acts. 98 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: There's three segments of the book. But in a way, 99 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: when you offer us these lessons by being so specific 100 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: about your journey, you decenter yourself in a way because 101 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: you give us tools that are for everyone. And I'm 102 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: curious how you began to figure that out, and especially 103 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: when you look back at you, know, I want to 104 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: ask a question about every segment. In the first segment, 105 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: knowing something was off and then finding your identity and art, 106 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: you know, thinking about ASPA, Like, how did that begin 107 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: to make sense for you? 108 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 3: So the book is this came from my therapist terms 109 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: in the Burned Flyer who I'm seeing tonight, I mean Francisco, 110 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: She's coming to the book event. She said to me, 111 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 3: and it's session many years ago that that the journey 112 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 3: of healing from trauma is often going from what's wrong 113 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: with me? Think, you know, as a child, like something's 114 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: wrong with me, I'm like not like everybody else. And 115 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: then I, you know, that was a firm by my mother, 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 3: who what's wrong with you? My teachers, what's wrong with you? 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: The other kids, what's wrong with you? And like internalizing 118 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: what's wrong with me, not something's wrong? And then evolving 119 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: as I started therapy and understand that it's, oh, it's 120 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 3: actually about what happened to me. There's nothing wrong with me, 121 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 3: Like things happened, and like people put things on me, 122 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 3: and yeah, and so it was about what happened to me, 123 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 3: and some of a lot of the abuse that happened 124 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 3: to me that I was in denial about that I 125 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 3: didn't have the capacity to even hold and so I disassociated. 126 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: As a child, there was no way I could process 127 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 3: all that. So I brilliantly disassociated. But at when it's 128 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 3: time to be an adult, like I have to, like 129 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: if I'm going to you know, stay on the planet, 130 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 3: be relatively healthy and functional, I have to actually deal 131 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: with the trauma and what happened to me and admit 132 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 3: that it happened, and start trying to make sense of 133 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: it and the stories that I've told myself around it, 134 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: and reality check those stories, reprogram and change those tapes, 135 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: and you know, you know, start reprogramming my nervous system, 136 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: and then what's right? Part three? 137 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 4: What's right with me? 138 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: Part of that healing that that rewiring my nervous system 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: is also about a both and that like, yes, there 140 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: are neuropathways in my nervous system that are you know, 141 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: I've been hardwired for trauma that exists in my body 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: in specific places. 143 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 4: But there's also like pathways are. 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: Brasilience that have always existed there, and I can build 145 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: like new pathways and I can fortify the existing pathways 146 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: are brasilient. 147 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: You can feed those, Yeah, and. 148 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: Those pathways are brasilience, have always been there. I was 149 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 3: a kid, and like under understanding that and looking back 150 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 3: at like what was really part of the torture was 151 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: like trying to go back and like well just going 152 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: back and being you know, two years old, being three 153 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 3: years old, and like that's all the fear that I 154 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: didn't know how to let myself feel. Feeling that and 155 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 3: trying to make sense of what was going on for 156 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: me as that kid, and understanding that, like, I had 157 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: a sense of myself from a very early age and 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 3: a critical awareness that I developed because like, and I 159 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 3: think a lot of trans people probably have this, and 160 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 3: maybe a lot of queer people too, because we're told 161 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 3: we're supposed to be this way and that you're you know, 162 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: you're a boy whatever. I'm like, well, that's not right. 163 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: I know I'm not a boy. So I just started questioning. 164 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 3: It was just like a questioning and then I had 165 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,599 Speaker 3: a sense that I was here for something bigger than me. 166 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 3: I just that I was here for something big that's 167 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 3: supposed to be a star and like, and I just 168 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 3: in that sense that sounds crazy and delusional in a way, 169 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: but the events of my life have like proven that I, 170 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: you know, I yeah, maybe I wasn't so crazy. That 171 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 3: that resilience has always been there, that sense of self, 172 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 3: which is such a miracle, such a miracle for me 173 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: and to have. And one of the other gifts of 174 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: my life is having a twin brother who has been 175 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 3: there the whole time, and you could bear witness, you know, 176 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 3: I'm like, do you remember this? Do you do you 177 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 3: feel like you know? And and for him to be 178 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 3: able to say, you're the same person you've always been. 179 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: You're more yourself, You're you're more, you're freer, you're less encumbered. 180 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 3: But you've always this is who you've always been since 181 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: you were a kid. And to have that affirmed is 182 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: it is a beautiful, beautiful thing. 183 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute, but here's 184 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors to have a mirror in 185 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: that way. And then as you say this, this sense 186 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: of knowing that I think so many kids have talked 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: out of them, you held on too, and it felt 188 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: for me at least as a reader, you know, not 189 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: wanting to give too much away, that winding up in 190 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: the Alabama School of Fine Arts, as you then go 191 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: into this, you know, part two, from the what's wrong 192 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: with me? To that what's happened to me? As you 193 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: as you start to put those pieces back together and 194 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: to understand all the aspects of identity and how they 195 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: feed your art. Art like that sense that you had 196 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: as a little kid that you were supposed to be 197 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: on a stage under a spotlight. You have always found 198 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: a voice as an artist in. 199 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 3: Pursuit of a stage in pursuit of a camera and 200 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: you know, in pursuit of a spotlight, but in pursuit 201 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 3: of the process at being an artists, like the learned, 202 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: like really learning to enjoy the process of creating a character, 203 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 3: of rehearsing of you or of writing when you know, 204 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: writing a solo show. 205 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 4: Now the joys of that, Like but I didn't feel 206 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 4: with this book. 207 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 3: But but the joys of being in process and being 208 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: and and technique technical want needing, Like especially when you 209 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 3: study classical ballet, it's a very technical art form. And 210 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 3: so there's there's technique, there's there's I have to keep 211 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: my heels down at the till the very last minute 212 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: and and pull up so I can get six pure wets. 213 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 3: You know, there's like specific methodology that I need to 214 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: achieve to like jump higher, to get my legs higher. 215 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 3: So the relationship between being that the acting things that 216 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 3: I can learn that I learned as an actor that 217 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: can help me like in being a better human being 218 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 3: or more effective in my real life. 219 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 4: It's like it's really cool and that happens that being an. 220 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: Artist is like it's such a sacred, sacred, humbling gift. 221 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 4: I calling feels like, you know, self important. 222 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: I feel called. It does feel like a calling, and. 223 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 4: It's my it's mine. 224 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 3: And whether you know, you know, I because the world, 225 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 3: I guess I could really self conscious about like what 226 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: you know, Oh she sucks, she can't act, you know, 227 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: And like I have I have. I'm probably my worst critics, 228 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: Like I have moments. 229 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: Nobody's meaner to me than me. 230 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm my own worst enemy. So no one 231 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 3: can be more critical of me than me. But sometimes 232 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 3: I have, you know, some I remember the third in 233 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: the third EMI nomination, I got I think this season, 234 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: and I remember when the season, when the season came out, 235 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 3: and it's this one particular episode and I was talking 236 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: to my acting coach and I was like, oh, I 237 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: think I pushed. I think I over I overacted, and 238 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 3: it was I saw it. It was just like and 239 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: you know, and then like it was a year after 240 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: we shot it that it came out, and I was 241 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 3: just kind of like, oh, I just thought it was 242 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: I thought it was terrible. And then like literally a 243 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: year later because the way when Orange Orange always dropped 244 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: in the summer, so it was like the show would 245 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 3: come out of year after we shot it, and the 246 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: Immy nominations would come out a year later, so like 247 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 3: so it was like two years later and I got 248 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: an Emmy nomination for that episode. 249 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: And I was like, they were like, oh, I guess 250 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: I did a good job there, and I know. 251 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: I went back in Washington and I was like, but 252 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 3: it was like two years later, and I actually had perspective. 253 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 3: And so often when I think it's too close, I'm 254 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 3: thinking of all the things that I plugged in. 255 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 4: So I can't I'm not. 256 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 3: I'm watching as the character in the same sensations, energy, traumas, 257 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 3: whatever I plugged in. 258 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: Yes, because it's still alive in you. Yeah, I feel 259 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: that too. 260 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 3: I need like two or three years to be able 261 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: to look at my work. And actually so I looked at. 262 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 4: It and was like, oh, okay, that's not that's so bad. Yeah, 263 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 4: it's raw, it's raw, it's dropped in. 264 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 3: It's big, you know. But sometimes but it's a lot. 265 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 4: But sometimes it's a love and sometimes I love that moment. 266 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 3: When did you see that interview when Viola was talking 267 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 3: about doing fences and doing the big scene. I've been 268 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: standing with you for eighteen years doing that big scene 269 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: in Denzel. She does it and she's like, I want 270 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: to be a cinematic actress and she had done it 271 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: on stage, and so I want to, you know, do 272 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: you know a cinematic performance? And so she does it 273 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: and Denzel's like, what was that? And she's like, I'm 274 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 3: trying to you know, not be too big and do 275 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 3: any you know a cinematic performance. And he was like, 276 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: show well, show me what you think is too big. 277 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 3: And then she does, you know, she does it, and 278 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: I was like, that's it, that's that's actually it. 279 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 4: Don't do the other thing. 280 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 3: Do that. 281 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 4: And then she said, what I learned is that some 282 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 4: some moments in life are big. Some moments in life 283 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 4: are big. 284 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 3: They just are. 285 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 4: And when you think about that moment in Fences, yeah, 286 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 4: you see this beautiful. 287 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: Wife like she's like, do you know a like taking 288 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: care of him and like doing all the things and 289 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 3: supporting him when he like this broke down patriarch you 290 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: know who like all about himself really and then he 291 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: has the nerve, the nerve, the nerve to have a baby. 292 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 4: And she's it's like. 293 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 3: And he's like, you don't know about when you have 294 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: to not have your dreams. It's like I've been standing 295 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 3: with you yes, and it was just like you see, 296 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: Oh I love Alsh and literally I mean just thinking 297 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: of like the things that we do well. But that's 298 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 3: just it, right, is like human beings and the ability to. 299 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Offer, to be so human that other people see themselves. 300 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: I watched her give the most gorgeous speech this year 301 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: at the end of ACP Awards. 302 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: Oh I thought this. 303 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 4: I didn't see. 304 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: I wasn't there, but oh, it was so beautiful. 305 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, I'm lucky. I get to I'm 306 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: like the white and plus one with Nia every year 307 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: when I'm when I get to be in town and 308 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: she just it's the most magical room and her speech 309 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: was so gorgeous. Oh my god, I'm sterling and everybody 310 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: but God. 311 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: The first like three times and met her, I cried. 312 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that I could talk to her. 313 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 4: First Saga, I was on the carpet and she walked 314 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 4: by me. Was like I just I just kind of like, 315 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god, chill. 316 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 3: And then we me and Matt McGrory presented you know, 317 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: the best actress in a you know TV series or whatever. 318 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: She murders and we got to present her with you 319 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: with Sag award, which was like epic, and I didn't 320 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: really get to talk to her that night. I said 321 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 3: a few words backstage, but then like the next year 322 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: at the SAG Awards, are you know one one for 323 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: Ensemble and at the after party like she and she 324 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: had won, but I think for a second year in 325 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: a row. When I passed her and the. 326 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 4: Photographer, oh, can we get a photo with Viola? 327 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: You said, okay with you and She's like sure, and 328 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 3: then I sit down with her and then they take 329 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 3: the picture and then I start talking to her, and 330 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 3: I just was like, you know, I there was a 331 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: show called Judging Amy back in like the nineties, two thousands, 332 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 3: and you had a guest spot on it. I didn't 333 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: know who you were, and you were playing a crack 334 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 3: at it who had relapsed and then like was trying 335 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 3: to get her daughter back and lost her daughter because 336 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: she relapsed. And you when they took your daughter, you 337 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 3: took your daughter away. You fed the way you fell 338 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 3: down in the street, I was like, who is this woman? 339 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 3: And I was like, I was studying acting, who is 340 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 3: this woman? She fell down in the street and she 341 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: was weeping and it was so raw and it was 342 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 3: so real. Oh my god, I can't even yeah, And 343 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 3: I was like, who is this? 344 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 4: And I googled her and then I started singing on 345 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 4: my oards and stuff, and I was just. 346 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 3: Like, who is this? And so I was just like 347 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: and she was like, oh, one of my crackheads. And 348 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: she kind of said it, you know, and I. 349 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 4: Was telling you this story. 350 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 3: I started crying tell you this story because it's so 351 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: hard to like when you see something. Yes, you're like, no, 352 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: that changed my life, the epitome. 353 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 4: Of what you maybe would hope to achieve as an 354 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 4: artist one day, and it's there. It's like, and now I'm. 355 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: Sitting next to you with a Sagaward in your hand, ma'am. 356 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 3: Five years ago or the yeah, oh my god. 357 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: Ol beautiful. We'll be back in just a minute after 358 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: a few words from our favorite sponsors. By the way, 359 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: my one of my best friends always says that to 360 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: me ironically. She always goes with me to the Sagaword weekend. 361 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: It's like our annual tradition, and she'll be like, Sophia, 362 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: you are also a famous person. You have to stop 363 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: being so weird with all that. And I'm like, but 364 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: that's but that, that's why old Davis like, it's it's different, 365 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: and it is so crazy when someone who just has 366 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: affected the whole trajectory of what you believe is possible 367 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: is standing in front of you. It's very surreal, Yes 368 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: to be though, you know, I think about that, like 369 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: to go from watching a guest star when you were 370 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: studying to then sitting on a couch together, each of 371 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: you holding you know, a sagaboard in the same season 372 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: you have, and you cover it, you know, for you 373 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: and for us in this beautiful book. But you have 374 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: accomplished so much and you've talked so beautifully today and 375 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: in other places on this book tour about understanding that 376 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: we're at a sort of really intense inflection point where 377 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: we have to come up with something new. You understand 378 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: our history, you understand your own, you understand what's at 379 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: stake for our future. And I guess I just wonder 380 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: if it's something personal, or if it's about policy, or 381 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: if it's professional, Like when you think and next my 382 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: work in progress is what what does it feel like 383 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: for you? 384 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 3: For me personally? Yeah, I mean it's I always try 385 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 3: to remind myself that the reason why anyone has listened 386 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: to me is because I was on a TV show 387 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 3: playing a character that they connected to, and that gave 388 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 3: me the platform that I have to do the work, 389 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: you know, the sort of advocacy work that I do 390 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: outside of acting. So I've even when people want me 391 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: to do other things and focus on other things, I've 392 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: always prioritized acting. I'm always focused on that. And I'm 393 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: at a point now artistically I'm fifty. 394 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 4: Four and it's time. It's time to get better at 395 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 4: this thing of being an actor. 396 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 3: I want. I want to be. 397 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 4: I mean, we have Biola Davis and then we have 398 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: Emma Stone. 399 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: The work she's been doing. The girls are. 400 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: Acting, acting their faces off. My god. 401 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: That's where I'm at, like on a personal level and 402 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 3: using my voice when I can the way I can. 403 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 3: Part of my job is to educate. 404 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: To That's that's what That's what I'm going to keep doing. 405 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 3: And I see you now there are moments of being afraid, 406 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: but you know, I don't have kids. I am this 407 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: is my work, this is this is like, this is 408 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: my this is what I'm here to do. And I 409 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: didn't have moments where like at a moment where I 410 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: was like, you know, people don't always survive these things. 411 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 4: You know, I'm not interesting, but it's interesting in being 412 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 4: a modern or anything like that. 413 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 3: Like I don't I'm I tend to not go to 414 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 3: protests because it's not. Yeah, I'm like a transforment. I 415 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 3: can't get around you. 416 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 4: Like it's not me getting arrested is not you go 417 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 4: into jail. 418 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 3: It is not. I did that on TV. I can't 419 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 3: do it in real. 420 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: Life, no, ma'am. I just I hope that everywhere you 421 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: go in a time where I know the community doesn't 422 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: always feel welcome or safe. I hope everywhere you go 423 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: at least every day someone looks at you and says, 424 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: you you got me through something, You changed my life 425 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: because you were doing that for many of us. 426 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 4: That's been one of the best blessings. 427 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: Of this of this book tour good. You've done that 428 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: for me, Laverne, that I get to hear that, because 429 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 3: you know it's I. I I think when we three 430 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 3: years ago and all the butt live stuff is happening, 431 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: I felt I felt like I failed. I felt like 432 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 3: I felt like I failed, and like all this advocacy 433 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 3: not that it's just about me and it's kind of 434 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: egotistical and I have to check myself. But I felt 435 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 3: like I failed, you know, and it was because sort 436 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: of my fault, because fancy people all all of a sudden, 437 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 3: they weren't this visible before. Rages in your black and 438 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 3: so not to be like self important, but like I 439 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: felt like I failed, and I still feel a little 440 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 3: bit of that. And but I also, you know, so 441 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: all of this has been so humbling. It's been so 442 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: life will humble you and I and I think I 443 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 3: and I welcome it. I welcome being humbled again. That's 444 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 3: what that's the thing that happens for me as well. 445 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 3: So it just makes me right sized. It like it's 446 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 3: like I'm just I'm no better than anybody else. I'm 447 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: just on my journey struggling like everybody else is trying 448 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: to do the best I can. And so if there 449 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: is something I've done or said that is impacted someone's 450 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 3: life in a positive way, that is I'm able to 451 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: take it in in a way that I haven't always 452 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: been able to. And I need it. I need to 453 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 3: take it in because that's what it's about. That's what 454 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: it's about. It's about being a service. In some way. 455 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 3: I'm filled with so much joy and gratitude, and I'm 456 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: so humbled right now by this moment, and I surrender, 457 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 3: I surrender. 458 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: It's beautiful. I'm so happy for you. Congratulations, Thank you 459 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: for coming today. 460 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 4: It's so good to see you.