WEBVTT - For The Love of Money 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.239 Hey guys, welcome to I Do Part two, the podcast 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.960 where we talk about all the stuff that happens when 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.480 the marriage doesn't work out, or when maybe you were 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.760 married for many years and life just happened and now 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.200 you find yourself back on your own for the very 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.480 first time. I'm Cheryl Burke, one of your celebrity mentors 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.800 here on the pod, and I think what a lot 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.000 of people have learned about me I have to say 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.320 through this podcast and this show is that I take 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:44.280 my finances pretty seriously. I've been really open about my 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.920 thoughts on prenups, divorce, and so today I wanted to 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:53.120 talk about money and relationships. Get sticky. My guest today 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.680 is a founder, CEO and the host of the podcast 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.360 Her Money, and she's a New York Times bestselling author 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:04.039 of Women With Money. Please welcome Jeene Chatsky to the pod. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.880 Welcome to I DO Part two. How are you doing? 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:09.199 I'm good. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:10.800 Thanks for having me, of. 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.280 Course, thanks for coming on. Let's just get right into it. So, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.920 for people who have gone through divorce, would you say 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:23.119 that when you start dating again, like, how long into 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.920 the dating phase do you just ask about credit scores 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.600 and being completely transparent about you know each other's finances. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.920 I don't think complete transparency is something that you have 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:40.560 to something that you have to approach until you know 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.520 that this is a relationship that at least has at 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.160 least has some legs, right, And I say this, God no, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:53.080 and I am I was divorced. So I was married 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:58.800 for a long time, had two kids, got divorced at 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:06.880 age forty or separated at age forty, and got remarried 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:12.359 about five years later. And so I've been through this 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:20.799 and know exactly what you need to cough up and when. 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.880 And here's the thing. You don't want to be dishonest. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.040 You never want to be dishonest. You never want to 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:33.280 hide important facts about your financial life. But I think 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.040 that the most important thing is to align on with 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:42.240 a potential new lifetime partner or even somebody that you're 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:47.080 going to just date for a long time. Are hey, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:52.080 do we have the same ideas of goals? Do we 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:57.760 have the same ideas of values? Do we think the 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.320 same way about spend a lot of money on dinner 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.400 or a little money on dinner? How do we feel 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.400 about our travel vacations? And what's on my plate that 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.520 I need to take care of and what's on your 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.799 plate that you need to take care of? And how 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.639 are we going to have our own life with these 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.840 separate responsibilities existing. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.920 To the side, I think, all, yeah, I hear you, 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.400 and I believe that is maybe an initial conversation when 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.760 you have chosen to take this relationship seriously. But like, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.480 there's also debt, and if you do marry each other, 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:37.560 it becomes your debt. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:45.040 And it's well, not necessarily, it doesn't necessarily, no, not 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.560 even if you don't sign a prenup. So if I 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.080 come into and by the way, I think you should 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.600 sign a prenup. Right in many second marriages, you come 0:03:55.640 --> 0:04:02.839 in with a house or a business, or children or assets, 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.680 an expected inheritance, sign a prenup. It's no big deal. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:08.680 Well for some it is. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.720 Well maybe, I mean, I don't think it should be 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.000 a big deal. I think it's a big deal because 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.279 we make it a big deal. I think it's a 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.640 big deal because we give it emotional heft that maybe 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:22.480 it doesn't really deserve. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.680 I agree, because you have to separate the emotion and 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.479 the fact that you know your two individuals. You each 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.120 have your own finances that you've either worked and or 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.719 going to inherit and respect that as an individual person. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:43.480 I think that with men, I've experienced that there's a 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.279 lot of shame behind money and there's a lot of 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.000 and that's when the emotions maybe are not necessarily communicated 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.000 because that person may not know how or there's shame 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:57.800 period and they don't want to talk about it. So 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.520 like it does get emotional complicated. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.960 I think, yeah, I mean, I'm certainly not gonna spend 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.279 after spending thirty years writing about money, I'm certainly not 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.279 gonna argue that fact. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:10.560 Right. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:14.200 That's it's totally true. There is a lot of shame. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.279 There's a lot of you know, if you feel like 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.560 you have too little, there's shame. If you feel like 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.240 you have debt, there's shame. If you feel like there's 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.840 too much, there's guilt. Right, If you feel like you're 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.719 living in a way that you perhaps don't deserve to live, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:35.680 there's guilt. And all of these emotional forces fight themselves. 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.520 But let me just come back to that debt thing 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.200 for a second, because it's important if you come into 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.520 a relationship to a marriage and you've got student loan debt, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.800 or you've got a credit card that you owe money on, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.000 or a mortgage that you borrowed money on, that's your debt. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.799 That's not your spouse's debt money. If you get married 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.239 and you borrow money together, that's both of your debt. 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:08.159 But you can and part of a prenup is keeping 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.120 your debts separate, so you don't want to co mingle. 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.440 You don't want to start taking responsibility for each other's 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:19.440 debts because things get messy, and you want to understand 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.680 what that person's responsibilities are and how it might impact 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.480 your life. Because if somebody comes into a marriage or 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.280 a relationship and they've already got a boatload of debt, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.880 chances are they also have a not great credit score, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:39.520 and that's going to make the goal of buying a 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.440 place for the two of you to live harder. Right, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.760 That's that's just going to get in the way of 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.440 the life that you want to live. So you've got 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.880 to be honest about these things. But you don't have 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:51.200 to pay his credit card bills. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.040 Okay, good to know. Good to know, especially for those 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.320 that are maybe in a similar you know or wise 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.560 in a similar situation. But how about if let's say 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.480 your house is about to be for club, right, how 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.240 about that and then you marry into that like that, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.320 does that not fall into your lap whatsoever? But what 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.040 if there's no prenup, it's not your debt still, no 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.320 matter what. Okay, unless you are on the deed of 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:13.640 that house, got it. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.160 If it's if it's your partner's house, it's it's not 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:18.720 your debt. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.040 Now is that in the state, in the whole country 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:23.240 or is that just specific too because it's. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.400 Your state there state by state laws and in community 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.280 property states. It does get a little squishy. But as 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.440 far as I understand it, and I am not a lawyer, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.440 but I have done this for a long time. Yeah, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.480 it's not your debt. Where where it gets messy is 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.160 if you are married to somebody and you're living in 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.840 this house and that house gets foreclosed on whether or 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.840 not you're legally responsible to kick in some money to 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:52.840 pay for that house. You're going to kick in some 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.360 money to pay for that house, right, yeah, because because 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.880 of course that's that's what you're to do. You're gonna 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:05.240 look at your life in many cases and you're gonna say, 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.880 I've got some money, let me, let me do this. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:15.280 And unless you then really paper it up, you have 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.480 co mingled these assets, and that money of yours has 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.680 just gone into that house of his. It's kind of 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:28.040 like I've gotten letters from from some of my readers 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:33.000 that at her Money, which is my company, my blog, 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.360 and I've gotten letters basically saying, I'm moving in with 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:43.400 my boyfriend to this house that he owns. He wants 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:50.080 me to pay rent? Is that fair? Right? And the 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:55.320 rent could be going to build equity for your boyfriend. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:56.360 You're not married. 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.960 He owns that house, You don't own that house, So 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.400 it gets real fast. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:02.960 What do you think it depends? 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.079 I think it depends on how much rent? 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:05.640 Right? 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:11.439 Is it fair for you to pay money to live someplace? Absolutely? 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.560 Now, if he's renting, it's fine, I believe it's okay. Yeah, 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:16.360 I got it. Maybe, But if you own the home, 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:17.719 that's if he owns the. 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.559 Home, yeah, I think maybe. I think you know, you've 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.559 got to figure some way to. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:36.400 Contribute, right for sure. Now as far as just women 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.560 in general, right, like, what can they do. Let's say 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.760 they've been in a long marriage and when they got married, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.360 they got married young. And maybe I'm just being gender 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.160 specific right now, but it could obviously work the other way. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.640 As well, but the man was supporting the relationship and 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.640 then they decide to separate. I mean, how important is 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.920 it for people, not just women, to be financial literate. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.520 It's incredibly important and it's really Look, you have to 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:12.400 come out of a relationship with a sense of what 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.679 are you earning? What do you own at this point? 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.160 Like what did you what assets did you come away with? 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.439 Do you have a house, do you have a retirement account, 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.160 do you have cash in the bank, and what do 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.360 you owe? What are your debts, what are your obligations 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:34.480 going forward? And from there you can set up a 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.040 budget that is sustainable. You can you can look at 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.600 your roadmap and you can say, all right, here are 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.400 the things that I have to do going forward. And 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.320 if you don't know how to do those things, it 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:51.720 gets really complicated. I think that many people need the 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:57.480 help of a financial advisor coming out of a divorce 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.000 to just get them on the right track. Make sure 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.200 sure that they do. You're sort of doing a level 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.839 set right, you still have goals. When I got divorced, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:14.080 I had a job, right, I had some assets. I 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.360 bought a house, not the house that I lived in 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.920 with my ex husband, but I bought a new house, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:23.080 but I had responsibilities. I was paying for half of college, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.199 which was going to hit us about ten years down 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:30.240 the road. I was. I had taken a big step 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.760 back when it came to retirement, and I had to 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:38.240 make sure that I was going to catch up so 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:44.439 that I could so that I could have choices when 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.760 it came to retiring when I wanted how I wanted. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.199 I had this new house that I not only bought 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.800 but then put a lot of money into to renovate 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.240 because I wanted it to be what I wanted it 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:00.959 to be, and I wanted to pay that house off 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:06.079 before I got to retirement. So I had these goals 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.160 and I had to make sure that I was on 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:14.200 a path to meet those goals. That's what a plan does. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.040 That's like, so how do you budget for people that 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.600 may not know it's overwhelming? You know it is. 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.760 It's overwhelming. You look at my favorite way to budget, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:30.840 and I have a budgeting coaching class called Finance Fix. Yeah, 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.800 and we get it online. We spell fix with two x's, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.080 and we get a ton of women who are just 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.160 going through a divorce or thinking about a divorce because 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.200 they want to understand this very very question, So I 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.680 budget backwards because I don't. I think that's the best 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.960 way to do it. We use technology to help you 0:12:55.200 --> 0:13:00.360 look at where your money is going today, what are 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.920 you spending on in a whole bunch of different categories. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.200 And once you see where your money is going right now, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.360 then you can start making changes about where you want 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.040 your money to go in order to spend a little less, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.840 save a little more, pay down some debts. So always, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:26.800 always we see people who are discovering a hopic a 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:28.800 ha moment that they are spending too much on food. 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.360 Food is just you know, it's eating out, it take 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.040 its Yeah, it's exactly. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.520 It's that retail therapy kills me every time. Yeah, that's help. 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.560 No, it does help. We can talk about that. It 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:42.280 helps a little. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:48.959 It's another numbing device. Yes, that's a whole other episode. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:49.760 It is. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.720 It is so you know, we we look at the 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.640 Postmates bill and we say, do you think do you 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.480 think maybe you could. 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.720 Go to Starbucks instead of didn't? I think it delivered. 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.520 I'm just speaking from personal experience. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.400 There you go that and how much and that would 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:05.920 say fifty percent right there? 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.560 Absolutely. Yeah. 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.960 So these are the kinds of changes that we. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.000 That we make along the way. Got it? Now do 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.440 you believe couples should have I would say married or 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.120 even serious It is not to be married, but joint accounts. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.600 I'm a fan of joint and separate, So I think 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.600 it's easier and a little more romantic to have like 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.200 something joined. I don't want to be out in a 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.080 restaurant and worried about who's going to put their credit 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:38.160 card down, right, I just I kind of hate that. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.280 So let's have a joint credit card so that we 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.480 just pay for dinner on that, but then we fund 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.920 a joint bank account with the money that we need 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.800 to pay for the household expenses, and whatever's left is 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:59.000 mine or my husband's. I put more into the joint 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.200 account than he does because I make more than he does. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.360 I was just gonna ask that, like, is that how like? 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.240 Is that something that you resent though later down the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.000 road or No? 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:16.000 I don't. I'm fine with it, I think, but that's 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.520 something you have to look at if you're gonna if 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.200 you're gonna resent it, then you shouldn't do it. You 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.040 should come up with the system that you're not going 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:26.280 to resent, or you. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.760 Match the person who makes the most money matches whatever 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.960 your partner puts in that month or whatever exactly. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.400 So I think it works. You know, we talk about 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.520 fair and equal. I think it's fairst if you put 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:48.360 in an amount of money that by percentages, like whatever 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.520 percentage you earn more than him, you put that much 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.080 more into the joint account. But it gets complicated. Let's 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.680 say you've got a couple where one parent is staying 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.560 home with kids. They may not be earning money outside 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.440 the house, but they get to have their own money too, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.680 and that has to get funded out of the account 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:14.560 of the stuffs that does earn money, right, because everybody 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.480 needs autonomy. You know, I don't want to answer for 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.120 my retail therapy. I you know, I don't. I don't 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.280 want to. I I go out and I buy a bag. 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.840 I don't have to ask, like you're a kid, like yeah, no, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.600 too parental, And that's when resentment I think built. It's 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.920 just that this is why communication is vital, right, Like 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.040 it always goes back to this, like the transparency, at 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.400 least for me. I just feel like, you know, when 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.280 I was married, there was just that piece that was 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.000 like a very important piece, but it was like depending 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.480 on the way you were raised, How were your parents 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.680 with their money, Like, what did they show you? How 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.160 did they deal with their money? Did they invest or 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.800 were they not? Like you know, and it's it really 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.399 it's generational too, and there's so much there's emotion, but 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.240 then it's hard to separate. Like I come from my mother, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.639 who is a very uh she was She grew up 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.280 in poverty in the Philippines, and then she divorced my 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.560 father when I was two and she made a freaking 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.760 like empire, like completely devoted her life to her business. 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.399 Now with that, because I was she was a single 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:26.800 parent raising me. She was able to put food on 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.040 the table, she was able to support my dancing career. 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.080 She was able to do so much, and I'm so 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.600 grateful for that. But then that also required her being 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.600 at her company all hours of the day and night, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.080 and then me being raised by you know, babysitters, which 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.280 wasn't always a great experience. Now, look, I wouldn't be 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.359 here today if it wasn't for her support. But like, 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.480 I am definitely raised by somebody who's very good with 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.399 her money and went from rags to riches. Now, you know, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.879 it could be the opposite with a partner, you know, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.040 and you kind of have to have that aha moment 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.280 or that person does in order to be able to 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:05.920 talk about it. It's like a whole thing. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.800 It's a whole thing, and it's been We call it 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.600 your money story. This is your money story. It is 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:19.400 it's multi many chapters, it's a big book. It's Harry Potter, right, 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:25.359 and we we have to understand our own money story, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.919 which we often don't, and we have to understand our 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:32.040 partner's money story in order to sort of get the 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.399 friction out of the relationship and understand, you know, what 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.200 you're dealing with in your money story. And you get this, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.800 you just you you seem to innately understand this, but 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:50.000 it's it's not what you were taught. It's what you felt. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.480 It's it's the whispers that you heard and the tension 0:18:54.800 --> 0:19:00.040 in the house. And I am sure that when you're mom. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:03.920 Saving picking up pennies on the sidewalk, like. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.000 Come on right, well, and she probably continued to do 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.440 that when when she made a fortune, made a boatload, right, 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.159 and that that impacted you because you probably felt as 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.920 if you had no money when in reality you had 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:19.280 a ton. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.840 My sister was impact like she definitely is more like 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:27.960 a penny pincher. I am the I went the complete opposite. Yeah, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.919 but I'm still I'm still aware of it, but I 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.040 went to complete I'm like, you know, what, what are 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.480 we gonna do at We're gonna get you know, we're 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.560 all gonna die, and people are not going to talk 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.960 hopefully about how much money you've made, Like you know, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.359 it's just we live this life now, in this present moment, 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.760 and when you're so like, but that's just the way 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.760 she was raised, and I have to respect that, you. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.320 Know, yeah, yeah, but you add a partner to it 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.280 and all of a sudden, oh, it's explosive. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:58.280 Explosive many therapy sessions. But so why do you believe 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.640 it's so much easier to talk about sex so openly, 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.639 yet when it comes to money, it's like a uh no, no, no, no, 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:05.280 we don't go there. 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:09.880 I think because we had the sixties. I like, the 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.720 sixties was like all about talking about sex, right, so 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.920 our parents in the sixties learned to talk about sex, 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.240 and hopefully they talked like my I you know, they 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.960 they were more free around sex than money, and why not? 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.719 I wish they mine was, But she's also Filipino, so 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:29.920 like that, very Catholic. 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:35.159 Yeah, so I think I think we went through the 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.760 whole birth control and the pill and the you know, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:41.200 burn your bra. 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.320 And wait, why what's that? 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.600 Well, you know in the sixties people women were burning 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:51.000 their bras nobody. Yeah, yes, why I mean because they 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:51.800 didn't want to wear them. 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.040 Oh just don't, no need to burn them, just don't. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.760 Wear them, right, So there you go. But they were 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:04.280 making a statement and we didn't really have that with money. 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:09.119 I mean, what's changing, is what I mean. It's interesting. 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:14.960 So my kids are much more willing and able to 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.840 talk about money with their friends than I ever was 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.880 at their age. They're in their late twenties early thirties, 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.440 and they they know how much their friends make. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.720 They talk about things. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.480 Yeah, and a lot of gen Z sort of very 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:36.960 young millennials are right there, which I think is great. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.000 I think that's great. But you also raised you obviously 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:41.720 raised them well because. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.640 You know, I have one spender and one saver. Really interesting, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.240 interesting like me and my sister. Yeah, yeah, interesting. I 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.520 think it's like a rebel thing. It's kind of like, 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:53.280 I don't know if I want to live like that, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:53.920 Like so. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:56.679 Tight, Like it's just really but then I see the 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.760 other side too, you know, so interesting, this is so helpful. 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.280 What are the first steps to educating yourself on whether 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.520 you put money into a retirement versus stocks and bonds? Like, 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:19.919 how do you suggest somebody does this. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.400 So they're not in either or a retirement or stocks 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.159 and bonds? But can we just let's just sort of 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.520 take a step back. I think that when it comes 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:35.960 down to it, money is a series of habits that 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.040 you repeat over and over and over again. And we're 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.919 really lucky that we have technology that can help us 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:48.800 start to participate in things like investing before we know 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.800 everything there is to know and before we have all 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:58.040 the answers. My five thing, five habits, five things you 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.000 have to do in order to live a good thing 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.520 to life. You have to earn a decent living, right, 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:06.240 what's that mean? Decent is comfortable? You have to earn 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:09.879 a comfortable living. We know that having you know, huge 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.240 amounts of money, much more money than you need to 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:14.600 pay for your life to go on vacation every once 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:16.359 in a while, to put a roof over your head. 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.080 The happiness is really just incremental. It's not going to 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:23.480 buy you much more happiness. So you have to earn 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:28.560 enough to maintain that comfortable lifestyle right enough to not worry. 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:30.119 It's a good way to put it. 0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:32.960 Food shelter, Yeah, than necessities. 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:36.080 You have to spend less than you make. That's the 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.280 second one, and that's where a lot of people get stuck. 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.000 And if you get stuck there, you can't do any 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:40.840 of the others. 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:43.600 Correct because you don't want to have debt. 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.120 It's like this, people, Well, debt is a thing too, 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.879 and I'm not really talking about a mortgage or a 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.679 car loan. I'm talking about credit card debt. Debt is 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:56.520 the thing that makes us the most unhappy. It's the 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.600 thing that stresses us out the most. So, yes, we 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:02.520