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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Set podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is the one and only Jerry Douglas,

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Speaker 1: dough bro and Lapskewal guitar player Extraordinarire. Jerry. What is

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Speaker 1: a doughbro?

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Speaker 2: Bob? Thanks for having me on today. A doughbro is

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Speaker 2: a guitar. Basically, it's a guitar.

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Speaker 3: It has a People would recognize it from a shiny

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Speaker 3: like hubcap on top of the guitar, but that's that's

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Speaker 3: all something that goes into making the sound. There were

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Speaker 3: some five Slovakian brothers in the twenties who loved Hawaiian music,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't loud enough for them. They were used

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Speaker 3: to hear in loud bands oompah, all kinds of crazy

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Speaker 3: stuff over there. Crazy to us, not to them, But

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Speaker 3: they came over here and there was a Hawaiian guitar

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Speaker 3: craze going on in the United States and the twenties

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Speaker 3: that had been a sort of a out you know

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Speaker 3: it was. It was created by a World's exposition that

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Speaker 3: had Hawaiian musicians at it, and the whole world went

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Speaker 3: crazy about these Hawaiian musicians. So all these guys started

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Speaker 3: selling these Hawaiian guitars door to door to all the

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Speaker 3: kids and selling them, you know, little sheet music to

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Speaker 3: learn how to play Hawaiian music. And so they first

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Speaker 3: created the National guitar in Chicago. It was an all

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Speaker 3: metal body guitar like it is on the front of

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Speaker 3: the Dire Straits record Brothers in Arms, and people recognize

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Speaker 3: it from that. But I play the wooden bodied version

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Speaker 3: that these guys developed in the late nineteen twenties in

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles, and I have pictures of whole dobro orchestra.

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Speaker 3: It must have been an awful sound, but it became

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Speaker 3: popular in Hawaiian music, and then blues music. Blues guy's

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Speaker 3: got a hold of it because it was loud enough

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Speaker 3: to compete with their voice, so they could go ahead

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Speaker 3: and sing as loud as they wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Uh and uh.

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Speaker 3: And then it fell into the hands of Bashful Brother Oswald,

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Speaker 3: who played with Roy Acuff on the grandule Opry. And

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Speaker 3: he was working in a car plant in Flint, Michigan,

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Speaker 3: and in UH came across this guy, this Hawaiian guy

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Speaker 3: who played Hawaiian guitar, and Bashful Brother Oswald just loved

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Speaker 3: the sound of it and learned how to play it,

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Speaker 3: brought it back to Nashville, and then sooner or later,

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Speaker 3: the guy that I really learned from and the guy

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Speaker 3: that inspired me to play the guitar and the Doughbro

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Speaker 3: guitar in the first place, was a fellow named Josh

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Speaker 3: Graves Buck Graves, who played with Lester Flatten Earl Scrugs

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Speaker 3: in the Foggy Mountain Boys. And that's what I heard

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Speaker 3: that every morning getting up to go to school as

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Speaker 3: my dad was getting ready to go to to the

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Speaker 3: steel mill to go to work up in northeastern Ohio

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Speaker 3: and Warren, Ohio. And I heard that guitar every morning,

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Speaker 3: and I just fell in love with the sound of it.

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Speaker 3: So I played guitar at the time and started told

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Speaker 3: my dad if he would raise the action up on

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Speaker 3: my guitar, that I would learn how to play like

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Speaker 3: that guy that we'd seen the other night. I was

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Speaker 3: about ten years old, and that's when I started playing

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Speaker 3: dope row guitar.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the guitar has got the resonator on it. How

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Speaker 1: do you play it relative to a regular guitar.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you start out with it on

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Speaker 3: your lap, have it laying on flat on your lap

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Speaker 3: and you play it with a metal slide. Instead of

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Speaker 3: pushing the strings down to hit frets to stop the note,

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Speaker 3: you use a slide, a metal slide on top, and

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Speaker 3: the strings are raised up from the frets, so you

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Speaker 3: don't hit the frets anymore. And that is your threat.

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Speaker 3: That steel bar that you're you're holding in your hand,

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Speaker 3: that that is, that's your threat. That's your point of

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Speaker 3: of being in tune and uh and uh try and

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Speaker 3: trying not to hit a bad note against a singer

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Speaker 3: like Alison Krause.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So in a conventional guitar, you know e a

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Speaker 1: d G B, you move your fingers. How do you

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Speaker 1: tune and get the different notes on a dough bro?

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Speaker 3: The the the main the tuning that most Doughbro players

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Speaker 3: use is from high to low. It's DBG than an

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Speaker 3: octave lower dbg.

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Speaker 2: Uh. But I have.

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Speaker 3: Messed around with different tunings over the years, all kinds

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Speaker 3: of tunings, dropping you know, to dropping my uh second

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Speaker 3: string to create a create a suspension you know between

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Speaker 3: there and and create create tune my B string down

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Speaker 3: to an aid. So it just creates a little bit

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Speaker 3: of of tension and it also uh gives you a

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Speaker 3: way to. You can pull the string behind the bar

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Speaker 3: and raise it to the proper pitch if you want to.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's just a it's just a you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just an ornament really that tuning. But I also

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Speaker 3: have a thing on my guitar. It's called a hip shot,

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Speaker 3: a double hip shot that is like a looks like

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Speaker 3: a bigs B pedal, palm pedal, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, vibrato.

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Speaker 3: But this thing, you release it and it drops the

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Speaker 3: tuning to a drop D tuning, which then is from

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Speaker 3: E a F sharp duh a D. So it's a

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Speaker 3: dead GAD, except there's an F sharp instead of the

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Speaker 3: first D.

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Speaker 2: I was second D.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back. Your father worked in the steel mills.

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Speaker 1: How long was your family in America before he worked

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Speaker 1: in the steel mills?

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Speaker 3: Our first Douglas came over in seventeen forty eight, Wow,

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Speaker 3: came into Pittsburgh, came into not Pittsburgh, came into Philadelphia

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Speaker 3: and was put on the road south. You know, they

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Speaker 3: were sort of dividing people as they came in. And

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Speaker 3: my people were from Scotland and then were you know,

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Speaker 3: because of the clearances where their land was given away,

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Speaker 3: they were they were sent to Northern Ireland, and they

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Speaker 3: didn't want them there either, so they went to America

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Speaker 3: and came into Philadelphia, like I said, were put on

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Speaker 3: the road south where they were trying to create a

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Speaker 3: lot of Italians and Scott's Irish were sent south because

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Speaker 3: they needed stone workers south to build the coke ovens

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Speaker 3: in order to build foundries and get some industry going.

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Speaker 3: So they were actually planning these kind of things. And

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Speaker 3: my Douglases came down into Virginia and settled in this

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Speaker 3: little town called Buchannan, which became West Virginia. That part

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Speaker 3: of Virginia became West Virginia. So Buchan in West Virginia

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Speaker 3: is where my people really settled for the first time.

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Speaker 3: And my mother and father now live about forty five

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Speaker 3: miles from there. So the family, that portion of the

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Speaker 3: family didn't spread too far, but others, you know, William O.

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Speaker 3: Douglas is a relative of mine, distant relative, and Douglas

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Speaker 3: is all over the place. I mean, I've I haven't

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Speaker 3: joined twenty three in meters, so I haven't tracked anybody down,

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Speaker 3: and I'm scared of that thing anyway. So being a

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Speaker 3: traveling musician, I don't need any other children or grandchildren.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So how did they end up in Warren, Ohio?

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Speaker 1: And how did your father end up working in the

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Speaker 1: steel mill.

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Speaker 3: My father's had some cousins that had gone north and

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Speaker 3: found work in the steel mills around Warren and Youngstown, Ohio,

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Speaker 3: in the northeastern part of the state, and they said, well,

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Speaker 3: come on up here, we can find work for you.

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Speaker 3: And in West Virginia at that point, if you it

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Speaker 3: depended on which party was in power, the Republicans or

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Speaker 3: the Democrats. And if you were in the Democrats, you

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Speaker 3: either worked in the coal mines, you worked on the

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Speaker 3: state road, or you were a farmer. And my father

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Speaker 3: was looking for a better life, so he my mother

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Speaker 3: got buried and moved straight up to Ohio and he

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Speaker 3: went to work in the steel mills and stayed there

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Speaker 3: for forty years until he retired from the mills. And

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Speaker 3: then they moved back to my mother's farm, which had

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Speaker 3: been in the family now for over two hundred years,

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Speaker 3: and built a nice, great, big log cabin on top

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Speaker 3: of a ridge, and dad's ninety two, mom's eighty nine.

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Speaker 3: They lived there by themselves, and they're just amazing. I

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Speaker 3: can't I know I've got those genes, and I'm scared

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Speaker 3: to death what I'll be doing when I'm ninety two

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Speaker 3: years old.

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Speaker 1: So your father retired before the whole steel business imploded.

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Speaker 2: Well, he saw it coming.

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Speaker 3: I remember the day he came home and said to me,

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Speaker 3: our steel days are numbered because they're buying Japanese steel now.

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Speaker 3: And then it became Chinese steel, and you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and his company was.

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Speaker 2: Owned by a huge, a huge.

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Speaker 3: Rich family, European family, and they weren't getting much help.

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Speaker 3: So Dad took his retirement. He retired at just the

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Speaker 3: right time to get out with all his benefits and

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Speaker 3: his you know, everything in his retirement. It was like

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Speaker 3: it was the perfect American dream at that point, you know,

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Speaker 3: you could you could still get out of it and

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Speaker 3: take with what they said that you were going to have,

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Speaker 3: and they took it. So he, you know, just just

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago his retirement ran out. You know,

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Speaker 3: so he has lived, he's lived the whole dream. He

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Speaker 3: lived through his retirement and he's just you know, he's fine,

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Speaker 3: he's fine.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So you're growing up in Warren. How many kids

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Speaker 1: in the family.

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Speaker 2: My brother and I were just the two of us.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of cousins around, but most of

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Speaker 3: our family was in West Virginia, so we go south

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Speaker 3: for vacations, and the family never really we didn't really

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Speaker 3: travel that far. We didn't travel outside Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia,

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Speaker 3: you know, Pennsylvania, just surrounding high We didn't go that

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Speaker 3: far on vacations. But my dad would get these five

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Speaker 3: week paid vacations every year after he hit a certain

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Speaker 3: amount of years in the steel mill. So he would

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Speaker 3: go take us and we would just go to bluegrass

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Speaker 3: festivals and just hear all this music that you know,

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Speaker 3: that we loved. And he had a band. My father

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Speaker 3: had a band in Warren, Ohio called the West Virginia

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Speaker 3: Travelers and they were all guys from West Virginia who

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Speaker 3: had work in the steel mills. And they but they

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Speaker 3: when people from the south moved north, they took their

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Speaker 3: music with them, you know, and and a lot of

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Speaker 3: other things that maybe they shouldn't have taken. But I

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Speaker 3: think back to the jd Vance to the Hillbilly Elogy,

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Speaker 3: you know, those people moved to Dayton and took everything

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Speaker 3: with them, their lifestyle, everything.

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Speaker 2: But in up in our our part of the our

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Speaker 2: part of the woods.

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Speaker 3: There were so many people, so many different ethnic uh

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Speaker 3: you know, it with a lot of Greek people, people

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Speaker 3: from Greece, people from Italy.

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Speaker 2: It was a huge Italian population and just a boiling pot.

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Speaker 2: And you know, and the food was amazing up there,

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Speaker 2: and uh, just all kinds of people getting along. You know.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't didn't seem to be a division.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: They all had nicknames for each other. But there was

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Speaker 3: never any never any trouble or anything like that. But

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Speaker 3: but Dad, he he was up there sort of on

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Speaker 3: his own, uh you know, but had a band and

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Speaker 3: they started working and then there create that created other bands,

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Speaker 3: other bluegrass bands around there.

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Speaker 2: But he was one of the first in that area. Uh.

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Speaker 3: And and that because of that, I got to see

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Speaker 3: a band rehearse when I was, you know, five six

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Speaker 3: years old, rolling around under the kitchen table, watching these

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Speaker 3: guys figure out how to create a song, and that

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Speaker 3: all I was a sponge.

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Speaker 2: I sooked all of that up. I learned a lot

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Speaker 2: from just watching them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, your brother older, younger, where is he today.

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Speaker 2: He's he's almost three years younger than me.

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Speaker 3: Uh, he's retired now, and he was a meter reader

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Speaker 3: in West Virginia down there where he moved down to

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Speaker 3: be kind of keep an eye on the folks. And

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Speaker 3: he's on the next ridge over in another loghouse that

224
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Speaker 3: he but he can see their house, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's great that he's there, you know, because I

226
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Speaker 3: can't be but uh he and he also started playing bass,

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Speaker 3: uh at one point, and and became a really good

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Speaker 3: bass player. But he just he wasn't as interested in

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Speaker 3: making a living at it or doing what.

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Speaker 2: I did, you know, following following what I did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you come of age when the Beatles break. I

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Speaker 1: have close friends grew up in the exact same area.

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Speaker 1: So you talk about your father listening to country music.

234
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Speaker 1: Were also exposed to the British invasion in the other

235
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Speaker 1: top forty stuff.

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Speaker 2: Definitely was.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, I would listen to Flatten

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Speaker 3: Scrugs or something like that in the morning. But at

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Speaker 3: night I was close enough to Cleveland that it was

240
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Speaker 3: I would lay in my bed with my little bug,

241
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Speaker 3: you know, and put that my ear and listen to

242
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Speaker 3: what the lightest rock and roll was coming out of Cleveland.

243
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Speaker 3: So I was really confused, you because I loved that music,

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Speaker 3: and I loved what I heard in the morning. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out, how do I marry these two things,

246
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Speaker 3: and how can I make how can I make one

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Speaker 3: music out of tude or you know, trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out that, figure that out. And I think I've done

249
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Speaker 3: it over the time. I think I've done it and

250
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,920
Speaker 3: combined the two just by being a chameleon and being

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Speaker 3: a musician that listened, and you know, doing sessions.

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Speaker 2: That's that's your job.

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Speaker 3: Listen, you listen, and you you learn the song fast,

254
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Speaker 3: you come up with a hook, and you do all

255
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Speaker 3: of these things as fast as possible in order to

256
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Speaker 3: you know, move time. And that's that's one of the

257
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Speaker 3: things that that has really helped me in my career.

258
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Speaker 3: And but but those those radio stations up there also

259
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Speaker 3: had had a cousin moved in with us when he

260
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Speaker 3: was eighteen to k He came up there to find work.

261
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 3: He brought and the first night he was there, I

262
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Speaker 3: heard for the first time, I heard the mamas and

263
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 3: the papas, I heard, I heard the birds, and I

264
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,800
Speaker 3: heard Don't walk Away, and I remember that song. I

265
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 3: mean the first night he was there, and I just

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Speaker 3: my mind was blown again. You know, it was like

267
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Speaker 3: I was really I paid attention to music. You know,

268
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Speaker 3: It's like the different music that I would hear, like

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Speaker 3: like what he brought in the house and what I

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00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 3: heard on the radio from Cleveland and and all of

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Speaker 3: these things. So it was, uh, it was quite an education,

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Speaker 3: you know, before I even really put the bar to

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Speaker 3: the strings and got serious enough about playing that. I

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Speaker 3: loved music before I ever really got into playing it

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Speaker 3: so much.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you hear flatt and scrugs. You hear the

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Speaker 1: dough bro? What age are you you decide to play?

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Speaker 1: How do you get a dough bro? How do you

279
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 1: learn how to play?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

281
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 3: Good, good question. Because I had a silver tone guitar.

282
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Speaker 3: It was a pretty cheap model that I'd gotten for Christmas,

283
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 3: and and we raised the strings.

284
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Speaker 2: Up on that.

285
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 3: And one one day I came home from school and

286
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 3: my guitar was on the top of the stack of

287
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 3: guitars that we had, like guitars maybe.

288
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Speaker 2: And the sun had come in and hit my case.

289
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 3: And as soon as I hit the last latch on

290
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 3: the case and threw open the top of the case,

291
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,400
Speaker 3: my guitar just folded up like that. And so we

292
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 3: had to go find something real for me to play,

293
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 3: and that's when we went on the search to find

294
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,479
Speaker 3: a dough Bro But there were there weren't any. I mean,

295
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 3: they had stopped building Doughbro guitars in the late thirties,

296
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 3: so there weren't any. But the company was starting up again.

297
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,400
Speaker 3: My luck, in nineteen sixty seven, they started to produce

298
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 3: guitars again and I got one of the first ones.

299
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 2: But I had to go to a music store and

300
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 2: every time I'd ask them, they just look at me

301
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:47,920
Speaker 2: like I.

302
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,239
Speaker 3: Had some strange disease if I say, do you have

303
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: any Doughbro guitars? No, So finally I got a brochure

304
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: and I ordered one from the brochure to the to

305
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,680
Speaker 3: a music store in Newton Fall, Ohio. And six months

306
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 3: later that came in and I was just like, oh,

307
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 3: this is what it sounds like, you know, because I,

308
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 3: you know, I've been playing a guitar. It didn't it

309
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 3: didn't create all of that sound that comes from the

310
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,119
Speaker 3: cover plate. And under that cover plate is a we

311
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 3: didn't get to this before, but there's an aluminum spun

312
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 3: aluminum cone. It's like a speaker cone. And and also

313
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 3: there's a there's a bridge to connect the bridge to

314
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 3: the rest of this contraption. There's a thing I like

315
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 3: called a spider that sits down on that cone and

316
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 3: contacts that cone at eight different places and transfers the

317
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,479
Speaker 3: sound down into the guitar back up out of the guitar.

318
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 3: It was just an ingenious invention. I mean that there

319
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 3: are two screens at the top of the guitar.

320
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,640
Speaker 2: They're just like they're.

321
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 3: Screens, they're round screens, and that's where the bass of

322
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 3: part of the guitar comes from because it's channeled in side.

323
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 3: Sound is just like it's just like light or water.

324
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 3: It bounces, it reflects, it does all of these things.

325
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 3: And these guys figured out how to create the inside

326
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 3: of the guitar so they could control the high end

327
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 3: from the low end. And it just created two sources

328
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 3: of sound in one guitar, and you could mix those

329
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 3: two together depending on where you put the microphone as

330
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 3: to how much high end or low end you get.

331
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 3: And I think they got lucky on a whole lot

332
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 3: of things. I mean, just the circumference of that metal

333
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 3: spun aluminum cone that's never changed, and the cover plates

334
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 3: never changed until I changed the design of it a

335
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 3: few years ago. And I'm the guinea pig for a

336
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 3: lot of things that come out for Dobo players, and

337
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 3: I get them first and it works.

338
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 2: I keep it. It doesn't goes back to the whoever

339
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,199
Speaker 2: gave it to me.

340
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So what's the state of manufacture of Doughbro guitars today?

341
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 1: How many people even make them?

342
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 3: Doughbro does not make them. Gibson Guitars bought Dobro and uh,

343
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 3: they were terrible guitars that they were making. And so

344
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 3: I stepped in and said, can I can you build

345
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 3: me a signature model? And I will. I'll come in

346
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 3: with you. I'll go through all the pains and.

347
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 2: Everything with you to get this to be a good

348
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 2: guitar that somebody can buy as an entry level guitar

349
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 2: mahogany guitar at seventeen hundred dollars. And we all agreed

350
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,439
Speaker 2: on we could do that.

351
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 3: But the guitars, you know, if they have your name

352
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 3: on them anywhere, everyone who buys it thinks you built

353
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 3: it right. So they started they started doing some really

354
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 3: wacky things with this dough Bro like out of line,

355
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 3: or the the cone would not be or the cover

356
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 3: plate would not be in the center of the guitar

357
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 3: and be over to the left or to the right,

358
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 3: and you can't play a guitar like that. And they

359
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: were just bad. They were bad guitars. So Gibson and

360
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: I got a divorce. So I went to there's a

361
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 3: phelle named Tim Sheerhorn that makes excellent, excellent, excellent, like uh,

362
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 3: the greatest uh resophonic guitars, doughbro guitars. Doughbrow has become

363
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 3: a h. The word for doughbro now is ish resophonic.

364
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: Uh.

365
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 3: Doughbro was a name, like we started using it like kleenex.

366
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 3: You know, anything that looked like that was a doughbro.

367
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: And to me, I still call it that. I don't

368
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,239
Speaker 3: care if they sue me or not, but you know,

369
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 3: I'm selling more of them for them than anybody else.

370
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 2: So that was really awful.

371
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: But UH, I got UH and and then I got

372
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: into a deal here with the fellow named Paul Beard,

373
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 3: who is in Hagerstown, Maryland and makes the best, the

374
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: best reservantic guitars. I was with Tim Sheerhorn for a while,

375
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 3: but he didn't want to build a signature model. So

376
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 3: I got with Paul Beard and he did so we

377
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: set to work on building a special one worked on

378
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 3: the inside so the sound would move and be reflected

379
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: in different ways, and the guitar sounded bigger. All the

380
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: new builders are building what I would consider hybrids of

381
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 3: the first of the original guitar at this point.

382
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's assume I want to buy a Doughbro.

383
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: Are these things now readily available? How many companies are

384
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: making them? Is it still a very limited thing.

385
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: It's not a limited thing.

386
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 3: Nope, Through Paul Beard, there are several several entry level

387
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 3: guitars you can buy and not spend a lot of money,

388
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: you know, until you I tell people, if you're going

389
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 3: to buy a Doughbro.

390
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: Don't don't go out and buy one like mine right away.

391
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 3: Go out and buy, you know, a lower level guitar

392
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 3: to see if you really want to play this guitar. No,

393
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 3: don't spend ten thousand dollars. If you can spend you know,

394
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 3: fifteen hundred dollars and get something, And they're amazing guitars.

395
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 3: If I'd have had one of those guitars when I

396
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 3: was learning to play, I don't know what would have happened,

397
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 3: but yeah, suddenly, suddenly dobro players can get They're readily available.

398
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: You can find them all music stores. You know, you

399
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: go in, you go into guitar center, you can find

400
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 3: a dobro guitar, a resivantic guitar, and a slide and

401
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 3: picks and all everything. And I've been in situations in

402
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: the last couple of years. I had to fly from

403
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 3: Charlotte to Portland, Oregon to open for Shock Tea. I

404
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: was like one of the three people that got to

405
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: open for John McLaughlin and Zakir Hussein and all of

406
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: these amazing musicians. I mean, any of us in any

407
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 3: genre of music, will we sort of bow down to

408
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: what those guys have done because it's incredible music and

409
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: no one else can play it like they can. So

410
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 3: they were doing they're doing their fiftieth anniversary and probably

411
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 3: the last run. I get out to Portland and I

412
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: have no guitar, and I don't have a guitar the

413
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 3: next day either when I'm supposed to play. So I

414
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 3: put out an APB found another guitar that was my

415
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: signature model that showed up that had everything on it

416
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 3: that my guitar had. It was exact, you know, almost

417
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: exact copy mine's been played for three years, so it

418
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: sounded a little different. But that's happened to me about

419
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: four or five times over the last two years. So

420
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, why do I even carry a guitar? Why

421
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: don't I just announce where I'm going to be and

422
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: have people show up and bring me one to play.

423
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 2: But nothing like playing your own guitar. But it's.

424
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, you have to depend on so many

425
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 3: people to get from A to B anymore. It's kind

426
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: of it's a tough world out there for us traveling

427
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: with one in one instrument.

428
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: Okay, how'd you end up in the Pacific Northwest without

429
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: a guitar?

430
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: Airlines?

431
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 3: They just left it somewhere they you know, I have

432
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 3: air tags and everything. I knew exactly where it was.

433
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 3: It left, never left Charlotte, you know. And I needed

434
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: it in Portland, Oregon like now, And so two hours

435
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: before the show, my guitar showed up to so I

436
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 3: was covered.

437
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

438
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you get a guitar, how do you

439
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: learn how to play it?

440
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: That was when I was learning how to play. There

441
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: was no one, I mean, there was no internet. There

442
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: was the only way you could learn how to play

443
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: something was listen to the person that played it, you know,

444
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,719
Speaker 3: and and find somebody who knows how to tune it.

445
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: And I got lucky there. My dad's banjo player said,

446
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 3: I think it's the first four strings of the banjo,

447
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: and then I don't know.

448
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 2: What's up after that.

449
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 3: So we just went with what the tuning that I have,

450
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: and I got lucky, you know, And I just started

451
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 3: listening to Flatt and Scrugs records and trying to copy everything.

452
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: You know.

453
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: I couldn't slow my my record player would not slow

454
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 3: down any farther than thirty three, so I had to

455
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: put something heavy on it to slow it down so

456
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: I could hear the intervals between notes and what notes

457
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 3: they were and try to figure out where they were.

458
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm totally self taught. I had nobody to

459
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: tell me anything ever, And and it wasn't until much

460
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 3: later in the eighties when there were started to become

461
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: homespundings and stuff like that, and teaching teaching tools to

462
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 3: teach all instruments, and Dobro was included in those. But

463
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: it was it was hard because there were plenty of

464
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 3: people could tell you how to play guitar or manlin

465
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 3: or benjo or a violin, but dobro nobody, and uh

466
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: so we were all just kind of listening to each other.

467
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 3: And then you'd meet to another dobro player and it

468
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: was like you'd learned a foreign language, gone to that

469
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 3: country and tried it out on them and they actually

470
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: understood you.

471
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: You know. It was that kind of a great feeling.

472
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: And and the dobro community was a very very close

473
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 3: knit community because there weren't that many of us, but

474
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: now there are. There are like one thousand percent more

475
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: Doughbro players now than there were when I first went

476
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: on the road.

477
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're learning how to play the conventional stream

478
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: for people from your demo. My demo is They then

479
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: formed bands, They played high school gigs, et cetera. What

480
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: did you do?

481
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I played it.

482
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 3: I played in bars with my dad's bluegrass band. I

483
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 3: you know, we didn't play behind chicken wire, but we

484
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: needed it a few times. We were playing in in

485
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 3: bars around around Warren, Ohio where uh we played in

486
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: one bar that was right across the street from Alcoa,

487
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: And when the midnight shift from Alcoa let out, those

488
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: guys all came in that bar right across the street,

489
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 3: and we already had our our regular clientele in there, dancing,

490
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 3: you know, and and uh and making them so much

491
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 3: noise we could barely hear ourselves.

492
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: That was it.

493
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: And but uh, yeah, I I when they my friends

494
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: didn't know what I was doing. I didn't tell anybody

495
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: that I was a musician. I didn't tell anybody that

496
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: I played bluegrass music, country music, rock and roll. Didn't

497
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: tell them anything until my senior year, a bunch of

498
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: my pals found out where I was playing. They knew

499
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: I played. In fact, one of my friends told me,

500
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 3: he said, show and tell. One time you brought your

501
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: dough brow to school and the teacher gave you a

502
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: c And I thought, well, I just don't think she

503
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: understood what I was about. And but yeah, there was

504
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: nobody and and the band teacher for the high school

505
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 3: found out that I was a musician after that.

506
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: They told him and he said, why didn't you want to?

507
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: Why could Why didn't you play in the band?

508
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: And I said, it's not the same it's not the

509
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: same kind of music, and it's it's a completely different

510
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: world from what you guys are doing. Marching on a

511
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: football field and stuff.

512
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: I'm not. I don't do that. I play for I

513
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: play for live people, and who.

514
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: Are you know, applauding and and you know, I'm playing

515
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: for fun.

516
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: Really, I'm playing for fun.

517
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: And and it was all fun until I got up

518
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: to be about fifteen sixteen years old, and then it

519
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: was then I got scouted by a professional bluegrass band.

520
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: Okay, going sideways for a second. Not everybody got sophisticated.

521
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 1: Please define bluegrass music.

522
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: To define bluegrass music is a tough thing to do.

523
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: I mean, nobody agrees. But one thing that I think

524
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: we can all agree on is there was no bluegrass

525
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: music until Bill Monroe stepped on stage with Earl Scruggs.

526
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: And Lester Flat And that's the night bluegrass was born.

527
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: It was right here at the Grand Ole Opry in

528
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: Nashville in nineteen forty seven, and Earl Scruggs stepped up

529
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: to the microphone and played something so fast nobody had

530
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: ever heard anything like that before, and he got I

531
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: think they got five standing ovations, and they played the

532
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: song like five times, and that had never been done

533
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: at the Opry, you know, other than Hank Williams doing

534
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: something like that, nobody had ever done anything like that before.

535
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: But bluegrass music is basically a basic bluegrass band is

536
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: comprised of a guitar, a banjo, a violin, fiddle, mandolin,

537
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 3: and a bass and then Dobro is sort of the

538
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: stepchild of all of that. Josh Graves made it work

539
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: for Flatten Scruggs, gave them a broader audience than they

540
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: had because.

541
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: Of his blues influence.

542
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 3: Just the instrument sort of inspires a blues atmosphere, you

543
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: know when he and he was from an area of

544
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 3: the country that that and he learned from an old

545
00:31:53,160 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 3: African American man who hung out around around Knoxville, Tennessee,

546
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: And so when he joined Flatten Scruggs, there was this

547
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: whole blues thing that happened to them that had never

548
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 3: happened before, and they used it and that's why they

549
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: were such a popular band with so many people. But

550
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: bluegrass they didn't they didn't even say they were a

551
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 3: bluegrass band because Bill Monroe was a bluegrass band, and

552
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: it was just they didn't want to be called bluegrass

553
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: because they thought it was limiting Bill Monroe and the vocals.

554
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: In bluegrass, the vocals are pitched kind of high because

555
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: Bill Monroe sang everything in it, mostly in B and

556
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: in higher keys than most men did so, And so

557
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: I think that that kind of explains bluegrass is different

558
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: than country music in that it's mostly acoustic as well.

559
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: We've all adapted pickups and all kinds of things to

560
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: our acoustic instruments at this point, so it's no longer

561
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 3: purely purely acoustic. But that was the only way we

562
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: could play in great, big places without feedback and things

563
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: like that was to sort of, you know, make our instruments,

564
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 3: adapt our instruments to the situation. But bluegrass music, I

565
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: don't that that's pretty much how I could explain bluegrass

566
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: music is the parts, and it comes from it comes

567
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 3: from the South, it comes from gospel music, comes from

568
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: rag time, it comes from the blues, comes from the

569
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 3: field hollers. Gospel music is a huge, huge part of

570
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: bluegrass music. And and just the sentiment, more of the

571
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: sentiment than that, like I believe and you must believe,

572
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: it's it's it's there are songs that have been sung

573
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: for a long time, and and bluegrass music is a

574
00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: music that's very stays true to its roots as true

575
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: to its roots as it possible, and when it goes

576
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 3: out of bounds once in a while, and then it'll

577
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: get pulled back.

578
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: Okay for the uneducated, Where is the line between bluegrass

579
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: and traditional country.

580
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: There's a very fine line between bluegrass music and traditional country.

581
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: Traditional country, you know that was played in the fifties

582
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 3: and sixties was very much related to bluegrass music other

583
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: than they introduced electric instruments and drums, and that's pretty

584
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: much the difference. That's the difference. They were singing about

585
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 3: the same they were all singing about the same subject

586
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: matter pretty much, you know. But bluegrass music is a

587
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: music that came from porches, you know, and people just

588
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: playing in the country just to pass the time. So

589
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 3: did old time country music. But country music is a

590
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: more and has always been more of a commercial has

591
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: more of a commercial side to it, and bluegrass, you know,

592
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: because it came from a you know, a poor, poor background,

593
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: didn't really I don't think it expected much for a

594
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: long time and until it learned how to play the

595
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 3: country music game, you know, until we actually monetized our music.

596
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: So tell me about getting scouted.

597
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: I was playing with my dad's band.

598
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy two, playing at a festival with it

599
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 3: with my dad's band. And also there was a band

600
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: there who was sort of the cream of the bluegrass

601
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 3: crop at that point, was called the Country Gentleman, And

602
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: they were based out of Washington, d C. And there

603
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 3: was this whole white collar bluegrass situation going on in

604
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: the Seldom scene and bands like that around Washington, d C.

605
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 3: But the Country Gentlemen. I looked out we were playing.

606
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: I was playing with my dad. We were playing the set,

607
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 3: and I looked out and I saw one of the guys,

608
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 3: Charlie Waller over to my left. I saw Bill Emerson,

609
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: the banjo player to my out in the center, and

610
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: I mean, it was like being scouted as a baseball player.

611
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 3: And they came up to me like right after that

612
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 3: show and ask if I could leave with them that

613
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: night and go to the next show. And I said, guys,

614
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta go back to school. I mean,

615
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: I need to go to I need to go to

616
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 3: It'll be my junior year in high school. I need

617
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: to go back to school. So the next summer after that,

618
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: after my junior year, I went with them. I went

619
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: out on the road for that summer and I missed.

620
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 3: I missed my last my senior year of football because

621
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: I was out running around with the bluegrass band all

622
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 3: over the country instead of having my spring training with

623
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 3: my football team. So I didn't play football that year.

624
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: And but I think it all worked out.

625
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: Okay. Uh.

626
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: I don't think I was going to be a professional

627
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: football player anyway. But I had a chance to go

628
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: to as a as an English major, to go to

629
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: the University of Maryland, and I and I, I was

630
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 3: out on the road with country gentlemen, walking through a

631
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 3: field and listen to all of these people play. After this,

632
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: after the concerts were all over, and people would camp

633
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 3: at these big bluegrass festivals and they and at night

634
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 3: bonfires rose up and there were jam sessions everywhere. You

635
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 3: could just walk around and listen to different bands play,

636
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: people play.

637
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: And I thought, you know, this is this. I love this.

638
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: I want to do this forever. I wanted to be

639
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: like this forever. Well it hasn't been but.

640
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: Music. It was just music.

641
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: It just made me, made me whole, It finished me,

642
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: and it uh and I and I thought, you know,

643
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: I I think I would rather do this. I think

644
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: I'm better at this than then I would be as

645
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: an English teacher or you know, reading late literature for

646
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: the rest of my life. So I made a choice

647
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 3: to stay on the road and become a musician, a

648
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: road musician, and hopefully a recording musician someday.

649
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you said you hoped that it would be like

650
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,720
Speaker 1: this festival with bonfires and jam sessions, but it wasn't.

651
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: What was it like?

652
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 3: For a long time, it was, and there was a

653
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 3: there was There was a sort of a just an

654
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 3: era where the festivals were more family oriented and people

655
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 3: would go there to meet other people that played bluegrass

656
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 3: because it was still a sort of a rare commodity

657
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: to run across somebody who even knew what it was.

658
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: And as it as it built, you know, and then

659
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: that you know, things things like the nitty gritty dirt

660
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: bands Circle, the Unbroken Record made a big difference. Then

661
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 3: later on, oh, brother made a big difference. And but uh,

662
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: it didn't. When I say it didn't stay that way,

663
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: was because it became the festivals got bigger, they got

664
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 3: more harder to manage the people, you know, and and

665
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, you know, every festival thought

666
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: it should be Woodstock, and so there would be thousands

667
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 3: of people the motorcycle gang, the Pagans, whoever showed up

668
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: would be the security for the festival.

669
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: And that just got it got too crazy, he got

670
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: out of hand, and uh.

671
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 3: And anymore, you can go to festivals, and there are

672
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 3: some festivals that still you can find people jamming out

673
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: in the after at night after after dark, but they're

674
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: very far a few and far between anymore. And the

675
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,479
Speaker 3: festivals really aren't set up that way anymore either. There's

676
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: still a lot of camping, but there's you know, I

677
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 3: don't know. Uh, we've just changed as a society. We've

678
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: we've changed. We're more private, I guess, I don't know. Uh,

679
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 3: but there's less jamming in the campground. But I don't know. Uh,

680
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: it's it's just a different time. People more When it

681
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: was more of a family event, you saw a lot

682
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: more people get out, and you saw a lot more

683
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 3: people get out and jam, you know, and it was

684
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: it was more local, felt more local.

685
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So you take the path to be a musician

686
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: as opposed to continue your education. So what happens are

687
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: you on the road with the band, do you switch bands?

688
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: How does your career ensue?

689
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: Well, I played with the country Gentlemen, for a couple

690
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: of years, and uh, after my after my junior year

691
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 3: of high school, I went out and played the summer

692
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 3: with him. Then I came back, finished my scene your

693
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: year of high school, turned eighteen, graduated from high school, and.

694
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: Moved to Washington, d c. All in the same week.

695
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 3: And that's that's when I was you know, it's not

696
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 3: it wasn't too late to turn back now, but it

697
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: was like I decided this is what I was going

698
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: to do, and moved down there, got an apartment and

699
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: started working full time music, being on the road, you know,

700
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 3: traveling in a bus and being on the road, and

701
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: I met other musicians, you know, through through the course

702
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 3: of just playing festivals and and just you know, meeting

703
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: other musicians. And I started working with this guitar player

704
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 3: named Tony Rice who was just a phenomena, and Ricky

705
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: Skagg's the same, and we I got into a band.

706
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 3: I was hired by a fello named J. D. Crowe,

707
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 3: banjo player in Lexington, Kentucky, who just he had this

708
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: band with Ricky and Tony, and it was like it

709
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: was like a step up for me. It was a

710
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 3: musical step up. And I followed those things. I followed

711
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 3: those opportunities where I thought, I can be a better

712
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: musician here, I can learn something here, you know. And

713
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't about money to me. It was about it

714
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: was about learning. It was about learning to be a

715
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: musician in all aspects of it.

716
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: And these guys.

717
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 3: Gave me a real foot up and it just opened

718
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: my mind to a lot of other different kinds of music.

719
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 3: Even I heard Weather Report and Chick Korea the same day,

720
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,479
Speaker 3: and that blew my mind. I thought, WHOA. I thought

721
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: I knew music pretty well, but this is something I've

722
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 3: never heard before.

723
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: I mean, this is brand news.

724
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: So I started, you know, my forays into that area

725
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: with David Grisman on the West Coast and meeting all

726
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 3: these different musicians all over the country. And that's when music,

727
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: the bluegrass music started to change, started to take in

728
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: a lot of jazz elements, a lot of blues elements.

729
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: You know.

730
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 3: It allowed itself for these things to pour in because

731
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: we have these renaissance periods. All music does, but I

732
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 3: notice some more in bluegrass music because right now we're

733
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 3: in one right where Chris Deely and Molly Tuttle and

734
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 3: Sierra Hull, Sierra Farrell, Meuni it's an explosion of brand

735
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: new talent. And I think that happens every fifteen twenty years.

736
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 3: I was in one of those classes. You know, it's

737
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 3: like it happens.

738
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: Music is.

739
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: Like all music starts at twelve o'clock. If you go

740
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 3: around the dial, it starts. It starts with roots music.

741
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: You know, something terrible happens in the world roots music

742
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: twelve o'clock, and then it goes around the dial and

743
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 3: it gets shinier and shinier, and by the time it

744
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: gets back around about eleven o'clock, everybody's going, oh man,

745
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: this is too much. We can't deal with this anymore.

746
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: And then something happens and we're back fruits music start over.

747
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: And if you I've been here for in Nashville for

748
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 3: at least three of those occasions.

749
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

750
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 3: When I first moved to town, we were leaving what

751
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: was called the uh was it called the uh uh

752
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: oh it was. It was Mickey Gilly and every and

753
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 3: when everybody had everybody had a mechanical bull. It was

754
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 3: the urban Cowboys scare. That's what we called it. It

755
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 3: was like the folk scare that happened in the sixties

756
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: and then and then the urban Cowboys scare, and then

757
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: we had the Broe Country scare and we you know,

758
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: but but when I came to town is about the time.

759
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: Uh then Ricky, when I moved to Nashville, Ricky Ricky

760
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: Skaggs hit, uh, uh Randy Travis hit and uh, Emmy

761
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 3: Lou was hitting. And it was the traditional country movement.

762
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: And I was here at the perfect time to belong

763
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 3: to that, to be part of that, and that really

764
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: gave me, gave me a foot up on becoming a

765
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 3: more of a musician, you know. Then then I went

766
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 3: out on the road with Emmy Lou Harris, and I

767
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 3: saw how these huge shows move buses, trucks, you know,

768
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: lots of musicians, you know, lots of guests, you know,

769
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 3: all these things had all works and and that was

770
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: a different time, you know, and then that saw its

771
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: time go away, you know. And there have been different

772
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 3: scares of Barbara Mandrel scare or the you know, all

773
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 3: of these different times in country music where we're in

774
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: one right now. We're in one right now where I

775
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: went to fill out my CMA ballot the other.

776
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 2: Day and I didn't know who anybody was.

777
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 3: I mean, and at one point I was doing you know,

778
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 3: fifteen sessions a week, playing with everybody and knew who

779
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 3: everyone was. Now I barely know who anybody is because

780
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: I'm just not doing that anymore, not playing on it

781
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: all as many sessions.

782
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's more pick and choose.

783
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: Let's go back. Graduate from high school, you moved to

784
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: d C. You're eighteen years old, you go on the road.

785
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: In the rock world, it's sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

786
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: What was it like in the bluegrass world for you?

787
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: It was pretty much sex, drugs and bluegrass.

788
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 3: But it was, uh, you know, we're young. We were

789
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: doing everything we're supposed to do, and we're young, and

790
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: as we got older.

791
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 2: We watched the other people do the same thing. But yeah,

792
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 2: it was wild out there.

793
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 3: And and you know, bluegrass went through a drug period,

794
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 3: just like rock and roll did. It's just like it

795
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: was everywhere. And I don't know what it's like now

796
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: because I've I'm out of that. I'm not taking drugs,

797
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 3: so I don't know what they've got, But I think

798
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 3: that I think they they I think they pretty much

799
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: hoopooed the drugs and and and a lot of them

800
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: just no, I don't want drugs, you know, it was.

801
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 3: It was the period of the kids were going to

802
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 3: say no to drugs, and so everyone did. And uh,

803
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 3: I know Chris Deely uh never touched anything.

804
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: You know.

805
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 3: I remember when he turned eighteen and he and he

806
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: saw his first movie that wasn't a G rated movie.

807
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: You know.

808
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: He was telling me about all these movies and and

809
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: and uh, it was fun to watch these guys who

810
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: were our you know who we had generated these people,

811
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 3: Uh through them watching Bayla Fleck and Sam Bush and

812
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 3: Tony Rice and and me and Mark O'Connor play.

813
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: They they went to school on us. Man. They they

814
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:58,479
Speaker 2: learned everything that we did.

815
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: And and uh, you know the only thing they don't

816
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: have that we have our old souls.

817
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: You know.

818
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so you talk about switching from the country gentleman

819
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 1: to Ricky Skaggs Tony Rice. Everybody's humble, But what's the

820
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: real situation you see? Are you taking advantage of the

821
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: situation or are you is it just dumb luck You're

822
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: sitting there and someone says, hey, come play with me.

823
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 3: It's a combination of both. Really, I I I Uh,

824
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 3: the way I joined Alison Kraus and Union Station was

825
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 3: just a phone call, you know, it was like I

826
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 3: had produced one of her records and played on just

827
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: about every record she had that she'd made, but I

828
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting that call and and.

829
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was like, yeah it was I was.

830
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: I was playing the game. I was watching where my

831
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 3: next musical step could be. Uh, As I say, it

832
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 3: wasn't financial, but you know, things things were better, I

833
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 3: mean because I was, you know, more identifiable and and

834
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 3: playing on lots of records and everything like that, and

835
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 3: showing up with lots of shows. But it wasn't It wasn't.

836
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 3: Uh that's I wasn't doing it for the money. I

837
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: was doing it for the for the music. But but uh,

838
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 3: I don't know. These these these new kids cropping up

839
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 3: billy strings is amazing, I mean, And that's that's way.

840
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: That's another phenomena that we could talk about. But you know,

841
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 3: I did a show with him the other night, and

842
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 3: and it's the same songs my father was singing to

843
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 3: those steel workers, is what he's singing to that audience,

844
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: and plus writing his own material too. But it's a

845
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 3: phenomena to watch the audience reaction. And I would I

846
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 3: was going from from one gig to another, from I

847
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 3: went from the country Gentleman to JD. Crow to the Whites,

848
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 3: Buck White and his two daughters, Sharon and Cheryl, and

849
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: we had top ten records, country records. Then from there

850
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 3: I was doing so many sessions that I had to

851
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 3: get off the road with them and just take care

852
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: of my recording career. But then I got bored.

853
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 2: And I needed I needed the crowd reaction. I needed.

854
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: I needed people, you know, to give me new ideas

855
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: and to try things out on me, because that's a

856
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 3: great place to try try new things in front of

857
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 3: an audience, if you get a reaction there, and then

858
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 3: take it back to the studio with you and use it.

859
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: You know, in some way. But just.

860
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 3: I just loved I just loved playing. So I would

861
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: go from one one gig to another, and worked a

862
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: lot with Peter Rowan, who was gave me a very

863
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 3: worldly view of not just bluegrass, but you know, traveling

864
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 3: through Europe and doing a lot more of that. Seeing

865
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 3: the world a little bit more opened up, opened up

866
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 3: things a little more for me as well.

867
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're working with Ricky Skaggs, working with Tony Rice. Yeah,

868
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: does someone say in the world of doughbro are there

869
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: other people who were the first call. How do you

870
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: get noticed in how many other people are in the world.

871
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: I was pretty I was pretty alone in that world.

872
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: I mean, there was Josh Graves who played who was

873
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 3: getting older, but it wasn't with flattened scrugs anymore, didn't

874
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 3: have quite the notoriety anymore. But still just he's my

875
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 3: man to look to if I want to remember something

876
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: good and hear something good. And Mike Aldridge was another

877
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: Doughbro player from the DC area that was just amazing

878
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 3: and and had taken the doughbro into a different subject

879
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 3: matter with a seldom scene mean, and was wasn't playing

880
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 3: so fast all the time, but but very his tone

881
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: was so good.

882
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: So that so here's speed.

883
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 3: And then tone, you know, and uh, I'm trying to

884
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: have both at the same time. It depends on the song.

885
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: So it depends on the subject matter, you know. I've

886
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 3: dived deep into these things and to try to figure

887
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,919
Speaker 3: out what to play because I want to be as

888
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 3: as uh empathetic as the singer. I feel like I

889
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: am another singer and and so I that's that's how

890
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 3: I go at it. But but moving from one band

891
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 3: to another was not a not a decision about money.

892
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 3: It was a conscious decision about becoming a better musician.

893
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 3: And uh, the final one, you know, with with Alison,

894
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 3: I have my own band. Who you you saw, you

895
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: saw us and we're.

896
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, gave us a bunch of love of jazz Fest.

897
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 2: You made my day.

898
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 3: I mean, it was raining, it was cold, I was miserable,

899
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 3: and then I saw that it was like, oh, okay,

900
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 3: all right, it was a good day after all.

901
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: But I had my own band.

902
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 3: And and love playing that stuff, you know, playing with

903
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 3: my own band, because I those are all my songs

904
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 3: and I get to hear their take on what my

905
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 3: on my songs. So it's good. But working with Alison

906
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: is like the pinnacle.

907
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: Of all these worlds.

908
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 3: You know, You're you're playing on a big stages, huge crowds,

909
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 3: great sound systems, everything is everything is state of the art,

910
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 3: you know. And and to walk out on that stage

911
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 3: and hear that voice every night, and and all of

912
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 3: those players, all those guys, my friends for more than

913
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 3: twenty years now, it's it's just a it's it's the

914
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 3: culmination of a long a lot of work for me,

915
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 3: for me, and uh, I feel so at home in it.

916
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 3: And it's like it's like part of my legacy at

917
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 3: this point.

918
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're playing with these varying things. How do

919
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: you end up in Nashville as a studio musician.

920
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: I moved here to work with the Whites, with Buck

921
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: White and his daughters, and we started We had a

922
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: we had a record deal with curb Uh and then

923
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 3: we had a record deal with Capital. But we were

924
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 3: pumping out these you know, number ten, number nine songs

925
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 3: and we never made it to number one or anything

926
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 3: like that.

927
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: But that's when.

928
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 3: It got really busy for me because we were right

929
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: in the middle of the traditional country movement and I

930
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: was playing on all kinds of records, you know, just

931
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 3: just you know, anybody.

932
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: Called I was just jumping. I was I was doing

933
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: anything I was called for.

934
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 3: And it got to where it happens to a lot

935
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 3: of musicians that way, you get you know, there was

936
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 3: different scales and there, and they're different session times you

937
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 3: know there at we do session times at ten, two,

938
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 3: and six, and I was doing all three of those,

939
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 3: you know, every day and kind of getting burnt out

940
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: on it. You know, you you start to wonder if

941
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 3: you had just played this song with some other artists

942
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 3: two three days ago. You don't know, you can't remember

943
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: because it's all getting mixed up in there, worried about

944
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 3: if you had just played the same solo or something

945
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 3: like it, you know, last week or something, because it was, uh,

946
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 3: I don't know.

947
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: It was just burnout time for me.

948
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 3: I needed to do I needed to get away from

949
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 3: it for a little while and and uh too to

950
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 3: realize how wonderful it really was. And uh but that's

951
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 3: when I took the job with Alison. I was right

952
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 3: at the end of a of a really tired of

953
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 3: doing what I'm doing kind of session. I was actually

954
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: producing a band when she called and and so I

955
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 3: started doing that, but I kept my own band at

956
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 3: the same time for just you know, to be able

957
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: to roll into that and know exactly what I was doing.

958
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 3: And uh but but playing with Alison was like you're

959
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 3: part of an ensemble, You're part of You're You're a

960
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 3: puzzle piece.

961
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: And I like that. I really like that, really like

962
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: being part of a puzzle.

963
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: So how long did you do the studio thing?

964
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 3: About ten twelve years? Ten twelve years. I was I

965
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 3: was just running down. I was home most of the time,

966
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 3: and I was running downtown with a doughbro and going

967
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 3: in and playing on two or three songs and then

968
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 3: going to the next studio, you know.

969
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 2: And that was that was my job. That's what I did.

970
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: I replaced saxophones, a lot of saxophones, to bring a

971
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 3: song back to country instead of you know, if they decided,

972
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 3: if if they cut the record and they played it

973
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 3: for somebody and they went, that's no, it needs to

974
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: be more country. They called me to replace the the

975
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 3: saxophone part, bring it back to country music. It's not

976
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 3: just me, but you know, things that would make it

977
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: more country.

978
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 2: Uh So, I don't know.

979
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 3: It's it's uh, it's it's it's hard to it's hard

980
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 3: to remember. Uh why I actually, you know, shied away

981
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 3: from it. I just stopped when I got the gig

982
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 3: with Alison. I stopped doing a lot of the sessions

983
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 3: that I didn't really want to do, you know, that

984
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 3: were worked for me. I started being a little more

985
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: choosy than what I did. And that's the way it's been.

986
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: So that's why it's remained up to now.

987
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: Okay, when you start to pull back, is there somebody

988
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: to fill your shoes or does the phone keep ringing,

989
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: Hey Jerry, we need you.

990
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: The phone keeps ringing.

991
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 3: But there are also guys that can fill my shoes.

992
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 3: But also there are you know, there for for that

993
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 3: many dobro players, new dobro players, there are ten times

994
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 3: that many bands, you know, so the whole thing was

995
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 3: growing exponentially.

996
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: But dobro players there are so many good ones now.

997
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: I mean I love hearing other Doughbro players because I

998
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 3: went so long for and not didn't hear any, you know,

999
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 3: I was it was just me and two or three

1000
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 3: other guys at a festival, and you know, we were

1001
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,439
Speaker 3: like the lost tribe, you know when somebody would meet.

1002
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 2: When I'd meet a.

1003
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 3: Dobro player, was like, whoa. You know, you don't have

1004
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: to show me everything, you know, I'm just glad to

1005
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 3: meet you. You know, I'm just glad to meet another

1006
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 3: dobro player. We're a rare bunch.

1007
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: Okay. You also play the lap steel guitar. Tell us

1008
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: exactly what that is.

1009
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: It's it's the forerunner of the pedal steel guitar. I mean,

1010
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 3: it's sort of between dobroh was the first slide slide

1011
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 3: guitar like that, and then then lap steals came out

1012
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 3: and they're just a board with strings, you know, and uh,

1013
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 3: it's a pretty simple, simple instrument that got keys on it,

1014
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 3: but the strand the strings are high and has pickup

1015
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 3: on it, so it's an electric instrument and uh, but

1016
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: there are so many different things you can do with it.

1017
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 3: There was a guy named Little Roy Wiggins that was

1018
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: here in the in the UH in the forties and

1019
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: fifties who uh just revolutionized country music with this the steel.

1020
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 3: And then Buddy Emmons and Shot Jackson and these guys

1021
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,479
Speaker 3: started working on pedals, putting pedals on it to raise

1022
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 3: and lower strings and do all kinds of things, and

1023
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 3: it became a lot.

1024
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 2: It became a pedal steel guitar. So that's the three

1025
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,439
Speaker 2: steps sort of this. So the lap steel is between those,

1026
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: but lap steel now is used. David Linley was.

1027
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 3: One of the greatest examples I can think of of

1028
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 3: of what I think lap steels should be used for.

1029
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 3: And they're just like they're rock and roll instruments, and

1030
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,919
Speaker 3: they can be they can be really sweet and old

1031
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 3: time country music. But lap steels are used as overdrive.

1032
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: You know that the sound is overdriven and and it's

1033
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 3: sort of a harder, meaner sounding instrument, you know, but.

1034
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 2: There are really pretty things you can do with it.

1035
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 3: But it to me, it gave me license to be

1036
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 3: to be a little more ferocious, you know, to be

1037
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 3: a little more ferocious, to start using some of that

1038
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 3: stuff I learned when I was laying in my bed

1039
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 3: listening to Cleveland stations, you know, to sort of take

1040
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 3: on a Joe Walsh attitude all of a sudden instead

1041
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 3: of instead of laying back in bluegrass world.

1042
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned Linterley, you mentioned Walsh. To what degree

1043
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: have you intersected with these rock musicians, these rock guitarists,

1044
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: and what has that experience been like? Have they been

1045
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: wanting to learn your lessons you've been learning their lessons

1046
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: or just treating stories.

1047
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 3: But David Linley and I were really good friends and

1048
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 3: we would trade We would trade stories. And I remember

1049
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 3: having a slide. There was a brand new slide, and

1050
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 3: I was a Winnipeg at a big festival, big folk

1051
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 3: festival in Winnipeg, and I was running across this field

1052
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 3: to surprise David with this brand new slide. And I

1053
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 3: got about ten feet from him and I held up

1054
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 3: the slide and he held up one exactly like it.

1055
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 3: And Ry Cooter there's another one that they say, never

1056
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 3: meet your heroes, right. I mean, the first time I

1057
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 3: met Ry Cooter, I said, I, Ry, I'm I'm a

1058
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 3: doughbro player and he said gee.

1059
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 2: And just melted me. I just you know, shattered me.

1060
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 3: I just like they almost had to pick me up

1061
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: off the rug and with a you know, vacuum cleaner.

1062
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 3: I was in pieces. I was so shattered, uh that.

1063
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 3: But then I met later on met his brother in law,

1064
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 3: Russ Teidelman, who produced a record for me and I

1065
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 3: and I explained to him. I said, he said, well,

1066
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 3: what did Rye say? And I said that he said gee,

1067
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 3: and he said, yeah, doughbro ge And I went.

1068
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 2: Oh, is that what he meant? And he says yeah.

1069
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 3: So the next call I get from Ry Cooter is

1070
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 3: inviting me to one of his concerts. So I felt

1071
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 3: better after that. You know, we we healed and we're

1072
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 3: we're friends now.

1073
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: So but Derek Trucks is another guy.

1074
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 3: You know, it's like you talk about slide players these days,

1075
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 3: Derek Truck's name is going to come up because he's

1076
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 3: probably the greatest living.

1077
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: Slide guitar player there is out there.

1078
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 3: I mean all the you know, straight out of Dwayne

1079
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: omen you know, he played with the Alvin Brothers. He's

1080
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 3: just he's just got this thing. And the first time

1081
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 3: I heard him, I I thought, God, this is if

1082
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 3: I played that guitar. This is what I would want

1083
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 3: to sound like, this is what I would this is

1084
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 3: how I would play. I heard him play, and we

1085
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:38,919
Speaker 3: just had this, you know, this great link to each other.

1086
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 2: And we're good friends. And we talked. We talked, you know,

1087
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 2: fairly off and and.

1088
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of a lot of the people that

1089
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 3: I admired, and uh like David and and Derek and

1090
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 3: uh and Eric Clapton, you know who I've worked with

1091
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: now and produced produced a cut with for Eric Clapton,

1092
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 3: which sounds crazy but true. It's we're all. We all

1093
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 3: kind of I was surprised they knew who I was.

1094
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 3: I was just shocked that they knew me. But uh,

1095
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 3: you know, and and I was just doing I was

1096
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 3: in hero worship world, you know, and uh, I didn't

1097
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 3: know they they kind.

1098
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 2: Of were too. It was it was it's it's shocking.

1099
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 1: How do you end up producing a record for Eric Clapton?

1100
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 1: What's that experience like?

1101
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: Well, I I do this. I do this show.

1102
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: I'm a co music director for this show called the

1103
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 3: Transatlantic Sessions that we do. We start in Scotland. This

1104
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 3: whole thing was we filmed. We filmed six years of it,

1105
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: isn't it And a couple of years ago we started

1106
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,919
Speaker 3: touring the show. So we played two nights and Glad

1107
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 3: School at the Grand Concert Hall. And then it's like

1108
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 3: a seventeen piece band plus five guests who's who may

1109
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 3: speak Gaelic, may sing in Gaelic or uh, you know whatever,

1110
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: but they're they're all people. We bring people from America

1111
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,439
Speaker 3: and just put them together with people over there they've

1112
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 3: never met people and you know, reg who are on

1113
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 3: the same level as them, and just kind of it's

1114
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 3: a collaboration show and we just see what comes out

1115
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,479
Speaker 3: of it. And it's a it's a different show every year,

1116
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 3: and the last show is the last show. It never

1117
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 3: happens again, and it's just it's it's amazing this music.

1118
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 3: But but the way I got to Eric to produce

1119
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 3: an a a song on Eric was he wanted to

1120
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 3: he wanted to play on the show. He wanted to

1121
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 3: he wanted to play play with us on the show.

1122
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 3: He'd been to the show five or six times in

1123
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 3: in London when we play there, and and I'd gotten

1124
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 3: to know him through Crossroads and a whole bunch of

1125
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 3: things like that, and he wanted to know if.

1126
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 2: Get up play with us. I said, I'm playing this

1127
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: song every night.

1128
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 3: Called uh when my while my guitar gently weeps.

1129
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 2: I said, I think you know that one.

1130
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 3: And he said he said, He said, do you play

1131
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 3: the chorus? And I said, yeah, yeah, I played the chorus.

1132
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 3: And he said, I've never played the chorus. And I said,

1133
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 3: you never played the chorus?

1134
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 2: Okay.

1135
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 3: So but he got up and played with us that night,

1136
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 3: and he also did this other song called sam Hall,

1137
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 3: and he and I kind of arranged it backstage and

1138
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 3: then treated it, gave it a Transatlantic Sessions treatment where

1139
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 3: at the end of it, the big crescendo and the

1140
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 3: big end is alien pipes take the take the the melody,

1141
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 3: and so all of a sudden there's this you know,

1142
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: wild animal loose in the room. A lot of people

1143
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 3: don't know what that sound is, you know what they

1144
01:06:58,840 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 3: hear it when they hear it.

1145
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 2: Uh.

1146
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 3: And but he really liked the mixture of all the

1147
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 3: instruments you know, there's two violins, pipes, guitar, bass and drums,

1148
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,959
Speaker 3: piano and an accordion, and and it's all of these

1149
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 3: guys who play Celtic music are all in the band,

1150
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: but they're they're having to adapt to some American country

1151
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 3: music at the same time. And and and we're playing

1152
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 3: We're playing uh old tunes, you know, two hundred year

1153
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 3: old fiddle tunes. You know that just make your will

1154
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 3: boil blood. You know, it's just that kind of you

1155
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 3: feel like you're sitting in a room full of vikings

1156
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, and then uh it's just beautiful, beautiful,

1157
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 3: uplifting music. And Eric really loved it, and so he said,

1158
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 3: why don't we record this?

1159
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: And I said that'd be great. When do you want

1160
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 2: to do it? When I go, can we should? I

1161
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 2: have everybody stand down?

1162
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,439
Speaker 3: He said no, we'll wait a month or so, and

1163
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 3: so I had to fly back. Most of the guys

1164
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 3: are there are from the UK or or Ireland. And

1165
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 3: uh so everybody convened at Abbey Road in the same

1166
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 3: in the in the Beatles in the Beatles room. And Eric,

1167
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 3: you know, he was trying to he's trying to do

1168
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 3: everything to just kind of completely blow our minds.

1169
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: And he did.

1170
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 3: And so we're in there playing in the Beatles room

1171
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 3: and hanging out in the you know, in the cafeteria

1172
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 3: where the Beatles ate every day, and nothing's changed in there.

1173
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 3: I mean, it's all the same. It's just an amazing

1174
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: week of box checking for me. He said, Okay, we're

1175
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 3: going to Abbey Road. All I get to take the

1176
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 3: transit Land guys with me. Great, Eric Clapton, you kidding, Yeah,

1177
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 3: this this is You can't.

1178
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 2: I can't. I couldn't have made this up. You know.

1179
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 3: It's like, this is so good and he's and he's, uh,

1180
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 3: you know, we have a lot of things in common.

1181
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 3: We talked about a lot of things, and he's he's

1182
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 3: a pretty wide open guy at this point in his life.

1183
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 3: I don't think he's always been, but he is right now.

1184
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: And you know, there's some there's been some bumps lately.

1185
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 3: I just you know, him voicing his opinions about things,

1186
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 3: you know, but uh, when we get together, we don't

1187
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 3: talk about any of that stuff. We're we're all music.

1188
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 3: It's all music, and and it's it's amazing to be

1189
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 3: uh me and to meet Eric Clapton, to meet Eric,

1190
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,600
Speaker 3: to meet to play with Eric Clapton, to play with

1191
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 3: Earl Scruggs, to play with Bill Monroe, to play with

1192
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 3: all these guys in between, Vince Gill, you know, all

1193
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 3: these you know, Eagles records, whatever. It's an amazing life.

1194
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 3: I couldn't have I couldn't have ever guessed at anything

1195
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 3: like any of this would have ever happened.

1196
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: So how'd you end up working with Russ Titelman and

1197
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: what'd you learn from him in terms of producing records.

1198
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 3: Russ was one of those spellows. I used to meet

1199
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 3: all the time at places in New York and we go,

1200
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 3: we should do something together someday, you know, you do

1201
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 3: that with a thousand people, and it never happens. But

1202
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 3: I got to this point where I wanted to make

1203
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 3: a record, but I didn't want I didn't want to

1204
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 3: be the producer. I wanted to play. I wanted to

1205
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 3: pay more attention to what I was doing and uh.

1206
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 3: And then so I called Russ and he said, yeah,

1207
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,559
Speaker 3: I'd love to do that. So we made we made

1208
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 3: a deal and he started making calls and we made

1209
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 3: this record called Traveler, uh, and it had Mumford and sons.

1210
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: I did a cut of.

1211
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: Of uh the the the boxer couldn't think of it

1212
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 3: and Uh we did that out in the middle of

1213
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 3: nowhere in a studio outside London and had a great time.

1214
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 3: And those guys were big friends of mine and uh

1215
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 3: and then uh keV Moo came in.

1216
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 2: Uh just like it was.

1217
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,879
Speaker 3: It was fun and he and uh and he knew Clapton.

1218
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 3: That's how I That's how I was. That's that was

1219
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 3: My first meeting with with Eric was uh uh Russ saying, Hey,

1220
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 3: Jerry Douglas would like for you to sing this song

1221
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 3: and he says, I would like to do it and

1222
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 3: be flat. So it's like, okay, all right, I guess

1223
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 3: we're on the road.

1224
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:28,160
Speaker 2: And we were.

1225
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 3: We were in New Orleans cutting this record. So I

1226
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 3: had Doctor John playing piano on one side of me

1227
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 3: and this whole, you know, this whole these great musicians

1228
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 3: from New Orleans playing and it was just another another

1229
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,799
Speaker 3: world of another feel, another way.

1230
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: To do this.

1231
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 3: You know, there's so many ways to make to make

1232
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 3: great music, and I'm I'm lucky. I'm getting to find

1233
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 3: out a few of them down along the way.

1234
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: So how did you end up producing records? And when

1235
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 1: someone hire you what are they getting.

1236
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: On the radio.

1237
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 3: I could listen to, uh, you know, there would be

1238
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 3: a cut, a country music cut, and then there'd be

1239
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 3: a bluegrass music cut come on the radio for some reason,

1240
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 3: you know, probably on Exam or Sirius where they could

1241
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 3: still mix the genres and uh, and it just didn't

1242
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 3: stand up, you know, it just didn't stand up. It

1243
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 3: didn't sound as good. I mean, I don't think they

1244
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 3: paid as much attention to recording. They were happy to

1245
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 3: be recording, but they didn't have bluegrass bands. Most of

1246
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 3: them did not have the blue the studio savvy when

1247
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 3: they went in.

1248
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 2: They didn't know.

1249
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 3: Where to place the microphone on their instrument to get

1250
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:45,799
Speaker 3: the best to get the best performance, and or how

1251
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 3: to maybe leave this maybe instead of going to this verse,

1252
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 3: you know, maybe something else happens here.

1253
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 2: You know.

1254
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 3: Just just keeping the songs interesting was what people hired

1255
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 3: me for. I had, I had, I got a good

1256
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 3: track record with bluegrass albums, different bands, producing different bands,

1257
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: And then I then I started getting called for that

1258
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 3: because I was, uh, you know, I was doing okay

1259
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 3: and and and plus I never thought you could hear

1260
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 3: the bass on bluegrass records. So I made sure there

1261
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 3: was enough bass, you know, I just I kind of

1262
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,679
Speaker 3: brought the sound of was trying to bring the sound

1263
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 3: of bluegrass up to the next level.

1264
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 2: You know, uh.

1265
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 3: In in in in treating, uh in treating the studio,

1266
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 3: you know, really using the really using the everything that

1267
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 3: was in.

1268
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 2: The studio to make the music better.

1269
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 3: Let these guys play and put the microphones in the

1270
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 3: right places, and just give them an idea once in

1271
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 3: a while. Sometimes you're a referee, you know. Sometimes a

1272
01:13:55,280 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 3: producer is just a referee between people. But this was

1273
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 3: I like to sit down with the bands and find

1274
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 3: out what the songs are about and and see how

1275
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 3: they play them, and then make suggestions from there, you know,

1276
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 3: trying not to completely reinvent the wheel, because these people

1277
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 3: have a sound, and I want to I want to.

1278
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 2: I want to.

1279
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 3: I want to keep their sound. I want to keep

1280
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 3: the sound of this band. But I want to make it.

1281
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 3: I want to make it. I want it to be

1282
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 3: big enough to be heard.

1283
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 2: You know.

1284
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,080
Speaker 1: So what about your band, the Earls of Leicester.

1285
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,759
Speaker 3: I always wanted to Flatten Scrugs band. I always wanted

1286
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 3: to be in that band and heard them all my life,

1287
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 3: and I just over the years, I've been keeping my

1288
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 3: eye on the on everybody that played out there on

1289
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 3: the road, and I was looking, I was casting, I

1290
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 3: was casting Lester, I was casting Earl. I was casting

1291
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 3: everybody down to the slap and bass, and uh, finally

1292
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 3: got time to do that, and uh when I'm working

1293
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 3: with Alice and we took some time off and I

1294
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 3: and I just went, yeah, this is as good a

1295
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 3: time as any to go ahead and just get this

1296
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 3: band together that I've always wanted to get.

1297
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 2: So the last I got.

1298
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,799
Speaker 3: You know, Charlie Charlie Cushman, the banjo player, and Johnny

1299
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 3: Johnny Warren Uh to play the fiddle. Johnny Warren's father,

1300
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 3: Paul played the fiddle with flatt and scrugs, and he

1301
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 3: played the fiddle exactly like his dad. So that was

1302
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 3: a no brainer. I mean, those two guys were like

1303
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 3: they were. They were Lester and uh or they were

1304
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 3: Earl and Paul.

1305
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 2: I had that.

1306
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 3: So I got Tim O'Brien to be Curly Vey or

1307
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 3: Curly Seckler, who was the tenor singer mandlin player, and

1308
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 3: there weren't a lot of mandolin solos in flatt and

1309
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 3: scrugs songs. If you've ever paid attention to that. Well,

1310
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 3: they they they kind of had a deal with Bill

1311
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 3: Monroe that they would not be a mandolin driven band,

1312
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 3: that they would be a banjo driven band. And so

1313
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 3: the mandolin players that they got were not didn't have

1314
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 3: to be a great manlin player.

1315
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:12,799
Speaker 2: They had to be a good tenor singer.

1316
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 3: And even Lester said early, he's not that great a

1317
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 3: mandlin player, but he looks good holding one. So I

1318
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 3: so I cast and got this band together, and then

1319
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 3: we went. They all came over here, and the last

1320
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 3: guy to cast was was Sean Camp. I didn't know

1321
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,839
Speaker 3: who Lester was going to be. I thought about Del McCurry,

1322
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 3: but then I thought, no, that's Del McCurry. Can only

1323
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 3: be Del McCurry. He's Del McCurry. That would not be right.

1324
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 2: So my wife said, what about Sean Camp?

1325
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 3: And I said really? So I called him up. I

1326
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 3: said would you be interested in doing anything like this?

1327
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 3: And he said yes he. I said, well, we're going

1328
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 3: to have rehearse tomorrow evening. If you want to come over,

1329
01:16:57,240 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 3: we're going to run through a couple of songs and

1330
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 3: just see what it sounds like. And he showed up

1331
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 3: in a blue pinstriped suit with a boat with a

1332
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 3: with a tie with the flattened scrugs tie and the

1333
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 3: hat everything, and we started we we got we got

1334
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 3: to the middle of the first chorus of the first song,

1335
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:19,839
Speaker 3: and I just threw up my hands and I went.

1336
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 2: This is it. This is this is it.

1337
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 3: This is as close as anyone's ever going to get

1338
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 3: to sounding like flattened scrugs. So we need to do

1339
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 3: something with this. And I checked my schedule and we

1340
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,559
Speaker 3: had I had ten days in the middle of July,

1341
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 3: and I said, we're going to record in the middle

1342
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 3: of July. So we did all this studying, you know,

1343
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 3: and down to the week, we wrote notes, we we

1344
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 3: we wrote notes on who backed up when, on what song,

1345
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 3: and we got as close as we possibly could. And

1346
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 3: the record won a Grammy, you know. But the main

1347
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 3: reason I wanted to do the band was, you know,

1348
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 3: other than to play with flatten scrugs, was uh, flattened

1349
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,679
Speaker 3: scrugs and that and that whole part of bluegrass music

1350
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,599
Speaker 3: had disappeared from the landscape out there, you know. People

1351
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 3: weren't doing people had forgotten about them, left them so

1352
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,160
Speaker 3: far behind, and I and I just thought, there are

1353
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 3: a lot of fundamentals.

1354
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 2: That you can learn here.

1355
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 3: These guys, these guys did it right. We're all trying

1356
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 3: to do it this way. And and I we just

1357
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 3: sort of reinjected flattened scrugs back into bluegrass world. And

1358
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 3: we we we made our point, you know, we made

1359
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 3: our point. We we won everything but that the IBM as,

1360
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 3: We won everything but female vocalists that.

1361
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 2: But it was, it was, it was. It was just

1362
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:50,799
Speaker 2: a we got.

1363
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 3: Their attention and and then all of a sudden, there

1364
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 3: were more ties, there were more suits, there were more

1365
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 3: you know hats. You know, these guys doing more choreography

1366
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 3: on stage with less microphones, because that's what we did.

1367
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 3: We we did that too. We really wanted the full

1368
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 3: effect and the choreography. You can hear it on the records.

1369
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 3: You can hear these guys move into microphones, and uh,

1370
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 3: it's something that's just gone. It's it's gone from the

1371
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 3: landscape of bluegrass music. So I thought, well, let's let's

1372
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 3: let's see if we can see if we can put

1373
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 3: this back in. And I think we've been pretty successful

1374
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 3: at that. And the band has slowed down just because

1375
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 3: everybody's gotten so busy. And uh, but I think we're

1376
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:41,879
Speaker 3: going to record again, and uh, there's only so many.

1377
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 2: Times you can do Flatten scrug songs. You know. I

1378
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 2: don't really want to do that. I want to I

1379
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 2: want to write our.

1380
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 3: Own material and and produce it into in the way

1381
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 3: Flattened Scrugs would have would have laid it out. That's

1382
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 3: what I wanted to do. And I want to see

1383
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 3: if people know the difference in an old song and

1384
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 3: a new song. It's done by the same band, it's

1385
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 3: done by you know. I think of us as as

1386
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 3: Lester Flat and Earl Scruggs and the Foggy Mountain Boys

1387
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 3: the next day, you know, like we could have done

1388
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 3: it just a little bit different, you know, if we'd

1389
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:19,799
Speaker 3: had one more run. Earl Scruggs was so mad still

1390
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 3: to this day because he had recorded a version of

1391
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:27,719
Speaker 3: Earl's Breakdown in a radio station back in the forties

1392
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 3: and he'd only missed he'd only flubbed just the just

1393
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 3: the end of the song, and thought he would go

1394
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 3: back and just fix that. So they did another take

1395
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 3: and then when it wasn't as good, and he said,

1396
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 3: when he went back to just fix to put the

1397
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 3: ending of the news song of the new cut on

1398
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,519
Speaker 3: the old cut, the guy had erased the original his

1399
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 3: original cut. Oh he was, he was, he's still I

1400
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 3: guarantee you he's still mad about that.

1401
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 2: And he's been dead for ten years.

1402
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 3: But I bet he's still mad about that.

1403
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 2: And and that's you know, that's another thing.

1404
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 3: You know, we we have to be careful, uh, in

1405
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 3: the studio with.

1406
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 2: You know, save save, save, save save, you know, like

1407
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 2: I'm doing right now. And uh, it's just it's it

1408
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:21,839
Speaker 2: was wacky.

1409
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 3: It was wacky, and he being him, conjuring up that

1410
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 3: same feeling from all those years ago that was part

1411
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 3: of his legacy. Everybody plays Earl's Breakdown, but they don't

1412
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 3: know how good it could be. Only Earl knew how

1413
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 3: good it could be.

1414
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you have your first new album in seven years,

1415
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 1: The Set. It's titled the Set, just to make that clear.

1416
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 1: Why now, I.

1417
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 3: Had so many people coming up to me after concerts

1418
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 3: going where can I find.

1419
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 2: This song and this song and this song?

1420
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,719
Speaker 3: And I'm going, well, that song is on a record,

1421
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 3: is on a is on vinyl, and you can't get

1422
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,920
Speaker 3: it anymore. So there were a lot of these things

1423
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 3: that I kept hearing that so much and so many

1424
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 3: record companies, you know, that I've dealt with over the

1425
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 3: years and had contracts with and made a record, and

1426
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 3: then that record would be shelved or or you know,

1427
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 3: hard to.

1428
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:19,599
Speaker 2: Find or whatever.

1429
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:21,760
Speaker 3: So I just went back in the studio and I'd

1430
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 3: cut the songs that people had been asking me where

1431
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 3: they could find them.

1432
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 2: I recut a lot.

1433
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 3: I recut some of my old songs, but I like

1434
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:34,759
Speaker 3: them better now because when you go in the studio

1435
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 3: with a brand new song and you let it down

1436
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 3: and you play it the best you can, you still

1437
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 3: don't know it.

1438
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 2: You don't know the insides and the outsides of it.

1439
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 3: You have to you have to play it. You have

1440
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 3: to play it with these other musicians for a while

1441
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 3: for it to really, you know, to really come into

1442
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 3: its own. So it had been years since i'd cut

1443
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 3: for instance, a song I wrote called from Ankara to

1444
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:00,720
Speaker 3: Ismir that I wrote while I was in Turkey a

1445
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 3: long time ago and doing uh I was doing playing embassies,

1446
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:15,560
Speaker 3: actually just playing in embassies, and.

1447
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 2: And so I wanted to do those songs. And but

1448
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 2: I love the way this band plays things. I love

1449
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 2: this band. This is this is the best band I've

1450
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:22,679
Speaker 2: ever had.

1451
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,440
Speaker 3: I love playing with them all the way around, great personalities,

1452
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 3: they're just really good fellas, and uh they play so good.

1453
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 2: There's there's so good. And so I just.

1454
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 3: Thought, let's go in and cut. Let's cut our set list.

1455
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 3: Let's cut our set list, and you know, and add

1456
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 3: we have we had a concerto that we had never recorded.

1457
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 2: We put that on there the fifth season, and then.

1458
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 3: Just some other things. I made sure that each guy

1459
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 3: in the band had a song on the record, so they,

1460
01:23:55,720 --> 01:24:01,479
Speaker 3: you know, have more input from them. And uh, I mean,

1461
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 3: this is it's a band record, but uh, you know,

1462
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 3: it's it's it's different if you put your name in

1463
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 3: like for Spotify or all these other things, if you

1464
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 3: put your if I just put my name, I'll get

1465
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 3: more hits than if I put band beside it.

1466
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: You know, that's a crazy it's true. But uh so

1467
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:27,519
Speaker 2: I cut it and I put just my name on it.

1468
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 3: And but it is a band record. I really consider

1469
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 3: it a band record. But for for uh, you know,

1470
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 3: for for reasons of algorithms, I had to do it

1471
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 3: that way.

1472
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 2: Crazy sounds crazy, but it's true.

1473
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: Are you a student of the game or did the

1474
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: person who made the record have to tell.

1475
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 3: You that I'm a student of the game, and uh

1476
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 3: I had I knew. I knew that from from other

1477
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:05,719
Speaker 3: people that had had this same thing came up, you know, And.

1478
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,040
Speaker 2: And so I do.

1479
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:08,839
Speaker 3: I do study the game, and I think the game's unfair.

1480
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 3: And I've been to the Capitol a couple of times

1481
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 3: with Naris to try to get these guys to come

1482
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 3: to the table and talk about paying us what they

1483
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 3: should be paying us.

1484
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 2: But they don't and they won't. And I don't know

1485
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 2: we're gonna do about those people. We need to we

1486
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 2: need to go in.

1487
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 3: There with like four or five bands playing at the

1488
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 3: same time to get their attention.

1489
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 2: I think, I don't know what we have to do.

1490
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 3: But I got to play. I got to play my

1491
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 3: doughbro all the way through the Capitol building one day.

1492
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 3: And the rotunda is the best sound in the world. Yeah,

1493
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 3: I loved it in there.

1494
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 2: That was so wonderful.

1495
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 1: Well, you've been in the game long enough to see

1496
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:02,440
Speaker 1: it change. So today they put out as many records,

1497
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:04,320
Speaker 1: and I think it's a day as they used to

1498
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 1: put out forty years ago. So to what degree is

1499
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 1: this a disincentive to record? The old days? It was

1500
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 1: expensive to record. Few people could make records. If you

1501
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: reach a certain hurdle, people were aware of you. Your

1502
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: record might be listened to today. No matter how fantastic

1503
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 1: you are, you might get lost in the tsunami of product.

1504
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: So do you say, hey, not even make a record

1505
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: at all, or you put it out there and have

1506
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: low expectations, or don't spend that much. Where's your head at?

1507
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 2: Well?

1508
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 3: I loved the days when we when when recording was expensive,

1509
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,560
Speaker 3: when you went into a big sound stage and everybody

1510
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 3: was there and every everything went down at the same time,

1511
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:50,519
Speaker 3: and it was and it was amazing because the the real,

1512
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 3: the real music that counts is the music that meets

1513
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 3: in the air. It's not it's not the you know,

1514
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 3: it's not the music that comes right off of one instruments.

1515
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 2: It's all of it that mixes in the air.

1516
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 3: And I'm I don't think we should cut ten song

1517
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 3: albums anymore. I think it's a waste of money. I

1518
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 3: think it's a I mean, the Beatles would go in

1519
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 3: and cut singles and they didn't put it just put

1520
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 3: an album out. They waited until they saw what hit,

1521
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 3: what would sell the most albums, and then they put

1522
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 3: them out and and we're now we're doing you know,

1523
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 3: up to ten songs.

1524
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,400
Speaker 2: And you know, and even even in.

1525
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 3: You know, satellite studios, not going into a big soundstages,

1526
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 3: going into a studio like I have here, you just

1527
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 3: don't you don't get the same quality of recording.

1528
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 2: I don't think.

1529
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 3: And plus we're a streaming society now, And to cut

1530
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 3: ten songs when people are going to take one off

1531
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 3: of that, they're gonna they're gonna download one song. I

1532
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 3: think I think making I think EPs are a better

1533
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 3: idea going in and cutting five songs, you know, getting

1534
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 3: five songs you really really like, and not getting five

1535
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 3: more songs that you don't like as much as the

1536
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:25,679
Speaker 3: first five. Why cut those songs? You know, wait until

1537
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 3: you know them better, or wait until they show you

1538
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 3: that they should.

1539
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:29,679
Speaker 2: Be out there.

1540
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:34,559
Speaker 3: But I I I think that uh, and so many

1541
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 3: people are doing it, just cutting the EPs to see

1542
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 3: what lands.

1543
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 2: Because cutting a whole ten song.

1544
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:44,679
Speaker 3: CD and and bringing in the players and and uh.

1545
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 2: The equipment that you need.

1546
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 3: On the floor, you know, to cut a to cut

1547
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 3: a great big to cut cut a band, to cut

1548
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 3: a whole band.

1549
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 2: Uh, it can be.

1550
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 3: Done in a home studio, but man, there's just something

1551
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 3: missing to me. I mean that there's a you know,

1552
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 3: you can tell, you can hear a record that's.

1553
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 2: Been done in pieces.

1554
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 3: You know, somebody, they'll call somebody, they'll come in, you know,

1555
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:14,480
Speaker 3: three days later and put a part down. Well, it's

1556
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:17,400
Speaker 3: to me, it's not it's not the same. It's not

1557
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:21,719
Speaker 3: it's not gonna equal what was put down the day

1558
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,599
Speaker 3: of when all the original ideas were flying around, and

1559
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,559
Speaker 3: and all the sounds were there, and everybody was bleeding

1560
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 3: onto other everybody else's microphone. And you know, there are

1561
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:35,639
Speaker 3: some bad parts about that if you have to replace things.

1562
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 3: But boy, you get a really good band, you put

1563
01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 3: them in one room and turn it on, let them

1564
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 3: go that that's that's the way music sounds the best,

1565
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 3: and and and and it's cheaper.

1566
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 2: It's uh.

1567
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,639
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember when the twenty four track tape

1568
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,320
Speaker 3: machine costs half a million dollars, you know, and now

1569
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 3: we can do a whole record on something that costs

1570
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 3: you know, four hundred dollars. And so you got to

1571
01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:08,000
Speaker 3: figure something's lost somewhere.

1572
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 2: You know.

1573
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: It's it's not just technology, it's the way we treat it.

1574
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 3: And uh, I think that I think that. You know,

1575
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 3: I'm I'm working them with a band right now. Then

1576
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 3: we're going to do an EP first and if we

1577
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 3: and if we uh we get some traction, we'll we'll

1578
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:31,799
Speaker 3: do more. But I think we take our best five

1579
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 3: and we throw them. We throw those first. You know,

1580
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:37,519
Speaker 3: if I could get away with three, I'd do it.

1581
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 1: So how much do you work on the road at

1582
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:41,560
Speaker 1: this point?

1583
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 3: I probably did one hundred and twenty five days this

1584
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:52,599
Speaker 3: year and plus so you can double that, you know,

1585
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 3: as far as with travel. So yeah, and I'm sixty

1586
01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:59,080
Speaker 3: eight years old. It's not as much fun as it

1587
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 3: was when I was twenty thirty years old. Uh there,

1588
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 3: you know it's I'm slower. I'm uh, I'm slower to

1589
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 3: get up. I'm slower to uh to to want to

1590
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 3: go out and do anything. Yeah, I don't know, it's just, uh,

1591
01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:21,759
Speaker 3: I'm on the road enough. I want to cut that back.

1592
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 3: Next year, I'm going out with Alison Krause again for

1593
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 3: the next two years and those will those will probably

1594
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 3: be eighty to one hundred and one hundred show years.

1595
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 2: And I want to cut that back.

1596
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 3: After after all the Alison stuff, I want to cut

1597
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:45,600
Speaker 3: it back to like twenty five. You know, it's just

1598
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 3: I've seen the world. I've seen the road, I've seen

1599
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 3: most of this country at night. But I feel I

1600
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 3: feel I feel.

1601
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 2: Like i've I feel like i've seen it. I feel

1602
01:31:58,880 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 2: like I've seen it.

1603
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 3: I feel like I've done a fair amount of things

1604
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 3: that a lot of people don't get to do. And

1605
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 3: I feel very fortunate about that part. But I'm getting tired.

1606
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 3: I'm getting a little tired.

1607
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:14,639
Speaker 1: Okay. There are some people go on the road. They

1608
01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,599
Speaker 1: got tapes, they got click tracks. It's the same every night.

1609
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 1: I don't know how they do it. It's gig one.

1610
01:32:21,360 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 1: They got one hundred to do. You go out with

1611
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: these acts. How do you keep it interesting for yourself?

1612
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 1: And what's it like for you at every gig?

1613
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 3: Well with I will try to mix up that, mix

1614
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 3: up the set list, you know, I'll take a look

1615
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 3: at the audience. It's one way that I'll try to

1616
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:46,360
Speaker 3: keep myself interested in. And I love the songs. It's

1617
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:49,720
Speaker 3: not that I don't start off not, you know, in

1618
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 3: a negative mood or anything like that. I'll take a

1619
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 3: look at the audience and I'll mix up this, mix

1620
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 3: up the show, you know, put some other songs in

1621
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 3: there that might be it. Maybe a lot few more

1622
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:02,719
Speaker 3: bluegrass people in there than there were the night before,

1623
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,600
Speaker 3: so I will I might lean on the bluegrass a

1624
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:10,599
Speaker 3: little bit more. But our audience, my band audience, seems

1625
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 3: like it's it it it. The people know that they

1626
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 3: know I'm I'm there. They don't know what they don't

1627
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,960
Speaker 3: know what I might play, so they're okay with that.

1628
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:26,439
Speaker 3: But UH, with Alison, like I think, we went two

1629
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:29,840
Speaker 3: years playing pretty much the same set list. Like you say,

1630
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:32,839
Speaker 3: we didn't have any we didn't have any click tracks

1631
01:33:32,920 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 3: or anything like that, so we were we were able

1632
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 3: to move to move the uh, the tempo a little

1633
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 3: bit into you know however we felt that night. But

1634
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 3: there's still things when you're playing in a band like that,

1635
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:53,560
Speaker 3: and and and to UH audience like that, they expect

1636
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:57,799
Speaker 3: to hear certain things and you've got to give them those.

1637
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:00,640
Speaker 3: But I remember when when I was out on the

1638
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:03,839
Speaker 3: was out on the last couple of years with Alison

1639
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 3: on Tuesday nights, I wouldn't play the same solos that

1640
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 3: I played.

1641
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 2: On the records.

1642
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 3: That was just for me, that was just for that

1643
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 3: was just for me. I don't know if they they

1644
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 3: paid it. I don't know if they paid attention to

1645
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:18,800
Speaker 3: that and heard what I was doing or not. But

1646
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 3: I played different that night. I had to or I

1647
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 3: was going to go crazy. You know, I can't do

1648
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 3: the same I can't play the same solo twice. And

1649
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 3: but if it's on a record and people know it

1650
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 3: that way, I'll try. And Uh, I could do it,

1651
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:37,680
Speaker 3: but I just don't want to. I don't want to.

1652
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 3: I want I like the I like I like playing

1653
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 3: off of something I heard somebody else. Do you know

1654
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 3: somebody else might do something and trigger trigger a response

1655
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 3: for me, and uh, it's going to be different than

1656
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 3: it was the night before.

1657
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 2: I just that's just me. I can't.

1658
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:59,599
Speaker 3: If I have to, I can play the same thing twice,

1659
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 3: and I will, but I don't want to.

1660
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: So how have you balanced home life and relationships with

1661
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:07,920
Speaker 1: all this work on the road.

1662
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 2: It's tough. It's tough. I mean. The last thing I

1663
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 2: have left this year is is a a gig at

1664
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:22,640
Speaker 2: BlackBerry Farm in East Tennessee.

1665
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 3: It's a really nice resort. Tommy, Emmanuel and I are

1666
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 3: going to go play for an hour over there. I'm

1667
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,200
Speaker 3: gonna take my wife and we're gonna spend three days

1668
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,759
Speaker 3: over there, just relaxing.

1669
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 2: But there's.

1670
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:43,920
Speaker 3: My daughter is about to have a baby, like any day. So,

1671
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:48,559
Speaker 3: you know, I've missed so many birthdays. I've missed so

1672
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 3: many birthdays. I've missed weddings. I've missed you know, things,

1673
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 3: my kids stuff.

1674
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 2: And you know, it breaks my heart to go back

1675
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:04,120
Speaker 2: and read my daughter's third grade paper, little paper she wrote,

1676
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:08,800
Speaker 2: you know, something that happened. Daddy was gone, Daddy was

1677
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 2: Daddy was not home. You know, it just kills me

1678
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:12,920
Speaker 2: and I and.

1679
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,799
Speaker 3: You know, there's no way around it unless it's your band.

1680
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,719
Speaker 3: You go, it's my son's birthday. Were not working that day,

1681
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 3: you know, or whatever. But we can't really do that.

1682
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 3: We're we're at the mercy of what the people want,

1683
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 3: you know. And so I've been I've missed so many birthdays,

1684
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 3: and it's been hard to balance it. It's been really

1685
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 3: hard to balance it. I'd say I have a very very.

1686
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 2: My wife is so I don't know, We'll just say

1687
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 2: she's she's put up with it.

1688
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:52,439
Speaker 3: She's she's a good person. I want to I want

1689
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 3: to be like her when I grow up. You know,

1690
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:58,360
Speaker 3: it's like, but she's put up for thirty seven years

1691
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:00,759
Speaker 3: now she's put up with me and all of this stuff.

1692
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 3: And we have four children. Now we have almost seven grandchildren.

1693
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:09,560
Speaker 3: So I'm feeling the need to be around here a

1694
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 3: little bit more, you know, and and be part of

1695
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 3: my I'm feeling part of like being part of the

1696
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 3: family more than ever.

1697
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if.

1698
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 3: I I don't know if it was that I didn't

1699
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 3: want to be I don't know. I don't think so

1700
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:26,680
Speaker 3: I wanted to be here. It was just, man, that

1701
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 3: was my job, and that's what I went to do.

1702
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:31,439
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if you're sick, if you're about to

1703
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 3: black out on stage, You've got to play, you know,

1704
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:38,160
Speaker 3: And some of those can be some of your best gigs,

1705
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 3: less distractions. So yeah, it's been hard to balance that

1706
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:46,919
Speaker 3: and and friends, you know. And some of my best friends,

1707
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:49,639
Speaker 3: you know. One of them lives right around the corner

1708
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:51,559
Speaker 3: from me, but Sam Bush, but I don't see him

1709
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:54,800
Speaker 3: unless we're five hundred miles from home, you know. And

1710
01:37:55,080 --> 01:37:59,599
Speaker 3: it's not a it's not a normal lifestyle, but it's

1711
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:04,720
Speaker 3: a it's suited me. It's done well for me, and

1712
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 3: I have no complaints about I just wish I had

1713
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:10,960
Speaker 3: seen a few more.

1714
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:15,400
Speaker 2: Of those birthdays and been here for a couple more berths. Yeah.

1715
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:21,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so sometimes the stars align, sometimes they don't. You

1716
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 1: talked earlier about the clock metaphor, which was brilliant, but

1717
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:30,679
Speaker 1: up until now, maybe with Billie's strings, for the last

1718
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: few decades, there has not been a moment where bluegrass

1719
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 1: was literally at the top. We've had other things. We've

1720
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 1: had the Mumfort and Sun Sound. We've even had Chris

1721
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 1: Stapleton in Americana slash country, but there wasn't a moment

1722
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 1: where everybody looked around and said, bluegrass that's as big

1723
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 1: as anything. To what degree do you feel upset that

1724
01:38:55,680 --> 01:38:59,719
Speaker 1: you and your music didn't have that moment at the peak?

1725
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a moment with Billy Strings

1726
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:04,639
Speaker 1: for just a momentary thing.

1727
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:13,640
Speaker 3: I'm first, I'm I'm not upset that our music is

1728
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 3: not that bluegrass music has not been.

1729
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:20,639
Speaker 2: At the you know, like in a like a pop chart.

1730
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 3: You know, I'm I'm okay with that because it's not

1731
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:26,280
Speaker 3: that kind of music.

1732
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't it mean it it's a it's

1733
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 2: a it's a music that that does get to more people.

1734
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 3: I mean, there there are certain what am I trying

1735
01:39:43,360 --> 01:39:47,639
Speaker 3: to say it's not popular amongst the African American audience.

1736
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 2: Uh, but it.

1737
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 3: It's it's like grown exponentially over the years. And uh

1738
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 3: but but it's not an international snow music as much

1739
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,719
Speaker 3: as I mean, there are people that that are playing

1740
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 3: in Europe and all over the world that are playing

1741
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:14,480
Speaker 3: bluegrass music. But it's their version, you know, with their musical,

1742
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:20,719
Speaker 3: with their with their musical, uh other other genres mixed

1743
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 3: into it, you know, and their their cultural music mixed in.

1744
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 3: But uh, I'm not I've never been I've never been

1745
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:31,680
Speaker 3: upset that it wasn't as big as country. I kind

1746
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:35,559
Speaker 3: of like, I kind of think that we've we've dodged

1747
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:40,240
Speaker 3: the bullet in a way that we didn't have to

1748
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 3: get to that point and then have you know, when

1749
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 3: you like it's when you have a single out and

1750
01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 3: you find out on Thursday that your single has tanked

1751
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,200
Speaker 3: and you need to start it. You need to go

1752
01:40:51,360 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 3: back to the dwell and get another single. We don't

1753
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 3: have that problem.

1754
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:01,639
Speaker 2: We don't have that problem. We we uh, we are a.

1755
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 3: Genre and and and we're not a splinter of a genre.

1756
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 3: Uh and and I don't I think that you know,

1757
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:15,320
Speaker 3: maybe you know, we'd like to sell as many records

1758
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:19,560
Speaker 3: as as Beyonce, But I I don't know how it

1759
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:26,400
Speaker 3: would change my life, you know, and uh, it's it's

1760
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 3: I don't feel I don't feel bad about it not

1761
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 3: being it's more popular than it is. I don't because

1762
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:38,320
Speaker 3: there I've watched it grow from almost nothing to you know,

1763
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:44,559
Speaker 3: taken off again. But I think Billy strings Is is

1764
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:45,280
Speaker 3: a phenomenon.

1765
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 2: Uh. I've played out there.

1766
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 3: I've gone out there and been on that stage and

1767
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,720
Speaker 3: watched that audience, and that audience loves everything that he

1768
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 3: does everything, and it just never stops. I mean, it

1769
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:02,400
Speaker 3: starts before he goes on stage, and and he is

1770
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:04,680
Speaker 3: up there and the band is doing its thing, and

1771
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:08,760
Speaker 3: Billy Is is in his toy box, you know, he's

1772
01:42:08,760 --> 01:42:11,680
Speaker 3: got all kinds of things going on stage and and

1773
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 3: he's he's.

1774
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:14,600
Speaker 2: Become this entertainer.

1775
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 3: But he has a he has a drive like I've

1776
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:23,160
Speaker 3: never seen, I mean, and it comes from him growing

1777
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 3: up in a in a in a really really uh

1778
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:31,280
Speaker 3: depressing kind of world where he had a choice, he said,

1779
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 3: he said, I had a choice.

1780
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 2: I got to this fork in the road. I can

1781
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:37,040
Speaker 2: either be a meth addict or I could try this

1782
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,519
Speaker 2: music thing. I try, any ie.

1783
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:42,240
Speaker 3: I went to the music route and saved his life,

1784
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:46,479
Speaker 3: gave us all this great music from him, and uh

1785
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:53,679
Speaker 3: and and and it also gave gave another generation another

1786
01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 3: another direction to go, you know, and and believing that

1787
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,519
Speaker 3: they can they can achieve the same things he he has.

1788
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:04,400
Speaker 3: I think that's important to have that to aim for.

1789
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,000
Speaker 3: And he gets us up. I mean, I'm so polaed.

1790
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 3: I'm thrilled that he asked me to get up there.

1791
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:15,120
Speaker 3: You know, I'm one of the old guys, you know,

1792
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:18,759
Speaker 3: but but he has a lot of reverence for for

1793
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 3: all of us that came before him.

1794
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 2: He has a he has a deep, deep feeling about that.

1795
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:30,360
Speaker 2: And he's, uh, he's just this guy. He wants to

1796
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 2: pay back.

1797
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,360
Speaker 3: He wants to pay back, he wants to for music

1798
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 3: saving his life. He wants to give everything to everybody.

1799
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 2: You know. He's he's that kind of guy. He's a

1800
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 2: good kid.

1801
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:45,360
Speaker 3: I've known him for you know, ten years now, and

1802
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 3: uh just watched his meteoric rise.

1803
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 2: It's just amazing. It's many. All the ducks are in

1804
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 2: a row. You know. The management's great, booking agents are great,

1805
01:43:56,200 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 2: the venues are great. His team is like I haven't.

1806
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:02,559
Speaker 3: I haven't been out on the road with A with

1807
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:05,719
Speaker 3: A with you know, I don't think the roll Rolling

1808
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 3: Stones can rival his his team on the road.

1809
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 2: I mean all the.

1810
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,680
Speaker 3: People that he's got to do whatever he needs, and

1811
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:15,879
Speaker 3: the great sound people, the great lighting.

1812
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 2: The lights are amazing. And that's another thing you have

1813
01:44:19,439 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 2: to have. Now. Uh, you can't go out on the

1814
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,320
Speaker 2: stage and bowl people over with your musical ability.

1815
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 3: You better have something. You better have a kicker ready

1816
01:44:29,320 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 3: to go, you know you need. The light show is great.

1817
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:36,040
Speaker 3: The light show. Bring out a guest once in a while,

1818
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:38,760
Speaker 3: you know, mix it up, make it interesting all the

1819
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 3: way through. And nobody wants to just watch, you know,

1820
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 3: watch five men stand on stage and just play into

1821
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:49,840
Speaker 3: microphones and not move.

1822
01:44:50,680 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 2: That's boring.

1823
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 3: I want to see people running around. I want to

1824
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:57,120
Speaker 3: see people enjoying what they're doing. And when you go

1825
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 3: see a Billy Strings concert, just just joy from the

1826
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:03,960
Speaker 3: beginning to the end. And he's he's the main source

1827
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:07,519
Speaker 3: of it. And he's just all over the place doing

1828
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,800
Speaker 3: crazy things. He started the second set out the other

1829
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 3: night with a He had a loop and he had

1830
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 3: a bong and he blew into the bong and he

1831
01:45:16,479 --> 01:45:20,400
Speaker 3: and he recorded that, and then he then he so

1832
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,640
Speaker 3: he had so he had a sound. So then he

1833
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 3: set up a ding on the side of it and

1834
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:30,599
Speaker 3: another ding to to frame in what the beats were.

1835
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:32,240
Speaker 2: And then they.

1836
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:34,880
Speaker 3: Sang a total as they sang a whole song to that,

1837
01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:39,400
Speaker 3: to that loop of the bonging.

1838
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:42,679
Speaker 2: It was great.

1839
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 3: It was so incredible. You mean, who else comes up

1840
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,679
Speaker 3: with stuff like that? You know, it's like this guy's

1841
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 3: got a he's got a brand new handle on things

1842
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:56,599
Speaker 3: that we never thought about before. And uh, I've been

1843
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 3: watching this stuff for so long and it was just

1844
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 3: thrilling for me to see that happening too. I see

1845
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 3: it going up, and I see him helping bluegrass music.

1846
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:10,800
Speaker 3: But I think that you know, people, the people that

1847
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,040
Speaker 3: go to his concerts, they know what bluegrass music is,

1848
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 3: but they're gone to see billy strings. They want to

1849
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:18,480
Speaker 3: see the phenomena. And he doesn't disappoint.

1850
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 1: Okay, you've accomplished so much, you're still working. One of

1851
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:25,560
Speaker 1: the goals in the future.

1852
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:29,599
Speaker 2: I'd like to keep on working.

1853
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 3: I don't want to have to go out on the

1854
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 3: road and beat the road anymore, but I want to

1855
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:39,559
Speaker 3: keep on working. And suddenly I can draw this thing

1856
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:44,800
Speaker 3: called social security and but you know, I know that's

1857
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:46,600
Speaker 3: not going to save me. But I just want to

1858
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:51,160
Speaker 3: keep my head above water and and my family happy,

1859
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 3: and my musical friends happy, and play whenever I want

1860
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:57,920
Speaker 3: to and not when I don't want to.

1861
01:46:59,160 --> 01:46:59,960
Speaker 2: That's what I want to do.

1862
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:04,640
Speaker 1: Jerry, it's been fabulous talking to you. You can really do.

1863
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:04,920
Speaker 2: You know?

1864
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:09,720
Speaker 1: Your clock metaphor was great. You're everywhere, everybody knows you

1865
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:11,720
Speaker 1: and they know more about you now. Thanks so much

1866
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: for taking this time to speak with my audience.

1867
01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,320
Speaker 3: I appreciate so much being able to speak to your audience. Bob,

1868
01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:19,200
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

1869
01:47:19,439 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 2: Thank you. I had a great time.

1870
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 1: How's good on until next time. This is Bob left

1871
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 1: sets