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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back and Bob Left Step Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is singer songwriter author Elliott Murfy. Elliot, good

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Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast. Good to be here, Bob,

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Speaker 1: to see you again on this side of the ocean here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's my first question. You live in Paris, but

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Speaker 1: when we were setting this up, you said, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be in the US. Why are you in the States.

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Speaker 1: I just had a two week break and this is

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Speaker 1: literally my first flight out of France and since the

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Speaker 1: COVID started, and I had a two week break, and

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Speaker 1: my wife as well, so we decided to come here

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Speaker 1: and see friends and family. And we're in Brooklyn, where

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Speaker 1: my father grew up, and I'm staying a block away

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Speaker 1: from a thing called the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which is

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Speaker 1: where my father worked during World War Two. So everything

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Speaker 1: has become full full circle here. Okay, why did you

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Speaker 1: move to Paris? To begin with? In what year did

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Speaker 1: you move? I moved France permanently in UH nineteen nine,

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Speaker 1: but it was kind of a transitional event. I played

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Speaker 1: my first show in Paris in nineteen seventy nine, and

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Speaker 1: by that time, my career in America was kind of

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Speaker 1: on the down Sling and uh, I did this show

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Speaker 1: in Paris, my first show ever. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be in a little club with a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred people. Have turned out to be like a fifteen

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Speaker 1: hundred people. I did six encourse. They knew all the

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Speaker 1: words to my songs, and I said, WHOA, I might

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Speaker 1: have a second act in this business. And in the

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Speaker 1: ten years between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: my career totally shifted to Europe. When I was touring

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Speaker 1: in Italy, Spain, Scandinavia, not so much the UK. I'm

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Speaker 1: that rare example of American artists who didn't enter into

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Speaker 1: Europe through the u K. And by nine it was

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Speaker 1: just time to move. Is your wife of American? Her Parisian?

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Speaker 1: My wife is a hundred percent she's French. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if she'd call herself Parisian. She calls

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Speaker 1: me Parisian now because she said, all I do is

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Speaker 1: complained about Paris, like all the rest of the Parisians.

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet your wife? Well, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear my side of the story. Sometimes you'll hear her

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Speaker 1: I was on tour bomb in three in France, in

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Speaker 1: a city called Cone, which is in Normandy, very near

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Speaker 1: the Normandy beaches there where they where d date took place.

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Speaker 1: And my wife is an actress and she was touring

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Speaker 1: with a little acting troop and I was on tour there,

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Speaker 1: and of course in a town like that, there's one

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Speaker 1: restaurant that's open late, and I ended up in there

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Speaker 1: and she was in there with her with her acting colleagues,

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Speaker 1: and we started talking and we had we did a

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Speaker 1: couple of dates. Then I went back to America and

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Speaker 1: I did not see her, are communicating with her for

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Speaker 1: six years. And when I moved back to France. When

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Speaker 1: I moved to France in nineteen eighty nine, I looked

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Speaker 1: for and I found her through France at that time

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Speaker 1: had an amazing little thing in every house with a

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Speaker 1: telephone called the minitel, where you could find phone numbers

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Speaker 1: and even book flights and things like that was right

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Speaker 1: way ahead of its time, and I found her on

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Speaker 1: that and we've been together ever since. And we have

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Speaker 1: a son, gas Bar who's thirty one years old. So

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Speaker 1: moving to France had nothing to do with her. You

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Speaker 1: moved completely independently. I certainly did like French women that

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Speaker 1: was but you know, that was not a problem. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the European I my first trip to Europe,

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Speaker 1: just to go back a little further, was Ine and

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Speaker 1: I came to Europe, you know, a long haired hippie. Uh.

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Speaker 1: San Francisco was kind of over, but Amsterdam was still

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Speaker 1: in its heyday, and uh I played on the streets.

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Speaker 1: I started to write a lot of songs. Whatever creative

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Speaker 1: juices I had in me just on froze and started flowing.

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Speaker 1: And that was I wrote a lot of the songs

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Speaker 1: during that trip that I actually used on my first album,

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Speaker 1: Acquid Show, a few years later. So I liked Europe

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Speaker 1: right away. I liked the lifestyle. I like the sense

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Speaker 1: of history all around me. Uh I came from, you know,

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Speaker 1: a very difficult family situation. My father had passed away

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Speaker 1: when on sixteen on Long Island. So I was happy

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Speaker 1: to get away from all that, and Europe was it

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Speaker 1: was the new world for me. Okay, let's focus in

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Certainly, France recently had an election. Lapine

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Speaker 1: is the right wing candidate. Her father was a candidate

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Speaker 1: before her, and it was always a fringe thing. Even

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Speaker 1: though McCrone won handily. What is going on with the

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Speaker 1: politics in France. Well, first you gotta understanding it. The

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Speaker 1: election shin system is totally different from America. They don't

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Speaker 1: have this electoral college. It's a very centralized government. It's

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Speaker 1: not a federal system with different states. And they have

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Speaker 1: two runs. They have the first run. Almost anyone who

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Speaker 1: can get five mayors in France to sign their sign

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Speaker 1: off on them can run for presidents. So you go

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Speaker 1: for your first vote and there might be twelve candidates

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Speaker 1: running all over the spectrum, all over the political spectrum,

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Speaker 1: and then the two win if none of them get

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Speaker 1: the two winners from that runoff, and the two winners

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Speaker 1: were Macron, Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Penn, who was

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Speaker 1: the daughter of the her father ran against had also

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Speaker 1: run for president for many years. So I mean, just

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Speaker 1: speaking personally, I am just so happy Macron one because

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Speaker 1: we're big supporters of him. He's a forward looking president.

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Speaker 1: He's he seems to be neither left nor right. He

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Speaker 1: just and he's young and it's great to see a

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Speaker 1: young face there. But to what degree is their right

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Speaker 1: wing incursion in France? Because her percentage of the vote

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Speaker 1: has been going up, it has been going up and

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Speaker 1: when her father, Jean Lepin ran, he ran against Jacques

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Speaker 1: Sharek and he only got twenty of the boat, but

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Speaker 1: she got much more than that. You know, Bob, It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of the same issues as here, fear of immigration.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of immigration coming into France

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Speaker 1: from from Africa and from and from the East of Europe,

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Speaker 1: and it's the same fear factor that uh that is

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Speaker 1: going on in America, you know. And and I think

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Speaker 1: when things change as fast as society is changing, people

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Speaker 1: are looking for simple answers, and unfortunately they get those

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Speaker 1: answers from people like Leapin. Over the years, there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of anti Semitic attacks Muslim issues. To what

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Speaker 1: degree is that something that penetrate society or we just

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Speaker 1: reading about that from a distance In the US, well,

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Speaker 1: the major event was, of course the terrorist attack Batta Clone,

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Speaker 1: which is a a concert venue there that an American

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Speaker 1: band was playing. I forgot their name, we're playing, and

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Speaker 1: you know, over a hundred people were killed and were

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Speaker 1: shut down during that attack. So that was that really

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Speaker 1: galvanized France in a lot of ways. And there has

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Speaker 1: been some anti Semitic attacks as well, uh not, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think I think it's really France is

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Speaker 1: Mike is, this is a reflection of what's happening in

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Speaker 1: America at the at the same level, it's a little

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Speaker 1: more educated of a country. I could say higher education

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Speaker 1: is free in France. If you want to go to

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Speaker 1: the university, you can go. I I also, I always

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Speaker 1: think the problem in America's higher education just became too expensive.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people can't afford to go to college,

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Speaker 1: so they get their education from reality TV. But it's

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Speaker 1: a little commer in France, and it is here. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think and on the talk shows

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Speaker 1: is much different than in America. You know, there it

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Speaker 1: tends to be less headline news, breaking news. It tends

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Speaker 1: to be more you get five different people talking about

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Speaker 1: what's going on. So what's the difference between France and America?

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Speaker 1: Those are some specifics, but generally tell us some more

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Speaker 1: what the differences. It's a very very old country, you know,

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Speaker 1: they've been around forever France. There was France before there

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Speaker 1: was an Italy, before there was a Germany, before there

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Speaker 1: was in Spain. I mean, they've just been around forever.

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Speaker 1: They are the cultural epicenter of Europe, you know, for centuries,

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Speaker 1: and I think that sense of history. You know, every

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Speaker 1: French person walks a little bit of pride, I guess

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Speaker 1: about that. And there's this fear that this new wave

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Speaker 1: of immigration, they're losing their identity as as French people.

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Speaker 1: A lot of Americans go to France and they think

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Speaker 1: that they're rude, you know, but I think it's more

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Speaker 1: they're very polite and you have to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you walk into buy bread, you have to say

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Speaker 1: bonjeur before you ask for the bread. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the first time I came to New York with my wife,

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Speaker 1: I think I walked into a gap to buy some

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Speaker 1: clothes and the sales girl come over to me and

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Speaker 1: she says, hey, how you guys doing today, Great to

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Speaker 1: see you. And my wife turns me and just do

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Speaker 1: you know her? God? So they're they're different in that way. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they are more Uh, their lifestyle is more regimented. You know,

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Speaker 1: they eat meals at a certain time. They don't eat

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Speaker 1: between meals very much. U. Even though they're not a

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Speaker 1: religious country, there's supposed to be a separation of state

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Speaker 1: and religion. They have more religious holidays than you could

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Speaker 1: count about. All I can say is they have certainly

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Speaker 1: been very good to me and recognizing me. And they

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Speaker 1: actually have a history of recognizing a lot of American

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Speaker 1: uh talent that is not as recognized in their own country.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for example, a director like John Cassavetti's He's

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Speaker 1: huge in France, you know, And there was a point

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Speaker 1: you could watch a John Cassavetti's movie in some theater

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Speaker 1: in Paris and the unit of the week, you know, uh.

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Speaker 1: And in my case, you know, they really have supported that.

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Speaker 1: That was the beginning of me kind of being able

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Speaker 1: to work as a as a musician, as a singer

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Speaker 1: and a songwriter. But if I remember correctly, you yourself

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Speaker 1: do not speak French fluently. Now I speak French. I

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Speaker 1: mean I can hold a conversation, I can go to

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Speaker 1: dinner conversations. If I have to write in French and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of accents and things you got to

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Speaker 1: do like that, I need my wife's help, but I

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Speaker 1: can certainly my French has described as almost fluently. Okay,

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Speaker 1: pretty good. So let's just broaden the conversation a little bit.

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Speaker 1: What is the view of France and the EU. I

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Speaker 1: was talking to Bob Geldoff, and he said that the

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Speaker 1: UK was the buffer between France and Germany, and as

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Speaker 1: a result of Brexit, you know, the whole issue was

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Speaker 1: in question. What's the French viewpoint on Brexit, the EU, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Or is it just calm and this is just hogwash?

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Speaker 1: We'll all due respect to Bucks or who I love. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I would say the UK was more the thorn in

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Speaker 1: the side of the EU than the buffer between you know,

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Speaker 1: the EU began between Germany and France. I think it

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Speaker 1: was a treaty for Cole or something like that. That

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Speaker 1: was the first step in creating the EU. Energy between

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Speaker 1: France and England didn't join until much later. Uh, I think,

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Speaker 1: and it is it is. I don't know why England left.

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Speaker 1: All my English friends don't know why they left. They

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Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna happening with the Northern Ireland, you know,

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Speaker 1: is part of England the UK. Southern Ireland is still

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Speaker 1: in the EU and there's a border there. They don't

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Speaker 1: know how they're going to handle that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just think the English, you know, they wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep driving on the right, whatever side of the road

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Speaker 1: they drive on. They were never gonna give up their

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Speaker 1: pound for the euro uh, you know, and they were

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Speaker 1: a little there an island. They're an island, Okay, needless

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Speaker 1: just say there's a war going on in Ukraine. To

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Speaker 1: what degree is that a major issue in France. Anybody's

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Speaker 1: been to Europe knows that these countries are not that

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Speaker 1: far away, So to what do we use it impacting?

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Speaker 1: And in part of conversation in France to put it

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Speaker 1: in context, the distance between Paris and Kiev, Kiev is

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Speaker 1: the same as the distance between New York and Dallas, Texas.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's very close. Uh. We have a lot

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Speaker 1: of refugees coming in from the Ukraine into France, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I think it's a big Everyone's

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Speaker 1: very fearful. They don't know quite what to do, you know,

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Speaker 1: how to how to keep a lid on this without

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Speaker 1: it just turning into something, you know, monumental. Ah. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what's going to happen at this point, but

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Speaker 1: it is a major issue in France and in Germany especially,

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Speaker 1: they're very close. Is there any fear that this will

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Speaker 1: I mean the fear on an individual level that while

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Speaker 1: this could spread and effect us directly, I think the

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Speaker 1: fear is that if either by mistake are on purpose,

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Speaker 1: any NATO country was attacked in any way, you know,

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Speaker 1: a drone gone off course into Poland or something like that,

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Speaker 1: that I think by the agreement, the NATO agreement, if

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Speaker 1: one members attacked, the others have to defend it. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a big fear. Uh. And I think they

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Speaker 1: don't really well of course I don't know, but they

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Speaker 1: don't really know what Putin's motives are, how far does

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Speaker 1: he want to go? You know? But I think what

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Speaker 1: the reason the Ukraine has really hit home is because

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Speaker 1: they look like Europeans. When you watch those scenes, they

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Speaker 1: look like they're dressed like the rest of the Europeans.

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Speaker 1: Those cities look like European cities. I mean, there were

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Speaker 1: a few countries within the old USSR, which I think

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Speaker 1: Chechna and a couple of others which but they didn't

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Speaker 1: really have They didn't identify with them as much as

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Speaker 1: with the Ukraine. And you know who knows they certainly

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Speaker 1: you know, as I said in my last show, which

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Speaker 1: I did in Paris a couple of months ago, I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really enjoyed the five minutes between the

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Speaker 1: pandemic and World War three. Okay, one more political question.

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Speaker 1: You know, we read about strikes in France. Unions have

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Speaker 1: been busted in the United States are making a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a comeback. Is this ultimately good for workers

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Speaker 1: or is this just something that is constantly putting a

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Speaker 1: stop in regular society both. I would say the syndicates,

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Speaker 1: which is what they call the unions in France, are powerful. Uh.

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Speaker 1: France never went through the violent labor movement that America did. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know in those early days of when they were

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Speaker 1: really when they bring in the Pinkerton's I mean and

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Speaker 1: shoot down the strikers. France never really went through that.

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Speaker 1: It evolved, and I think it's evolved in a good

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Speaker 1: way where there's a power sharing between the two. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But if you're a touring musician like me and that

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Speaker 1: the strikes there's a trained strike, it's really a pain

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Speaker 1: in the ass, let me tell you. But they do

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Speaker 1: protect the workers. Sometimes. You feel in France that when

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Speaker 1: you go into a store, you're more into that store

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Speaker 1: to help the worker work than to buy something. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a different mentality, but you know, the motto of

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Speaker 1: France is egality, fraternity and I think they take that

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Speaker 1: to heart in a certain way. And of course, if

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Speaker 1: you're in Europe France, supposedly everybody's on vacation in August,

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Speaker 1: and they say they observe. It's unlike America, where they

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Speaker 1: work seven days a week and everybody's available. What is

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Speaker 1: it really like you're there. It's changed. The American work

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Speaker 1: life has really changed. People don't take a month off

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Speaker 1: in August anymore. I mean they take more than in America,

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Speaker 1: and that's for sure. They don't take two hour lunches

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Speaker 1: with two bottles of wine anymore either, you know. Uh

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Speaker 1: to this to the shame of the French, the second

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Speaker 1: biggest market from McDonald's outside of America is France. So

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Speaker 1: you can see, uh no, it's very it's very much.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's Paris and there's France, and that's important

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Speaker 1: to remember. Those are two different things. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like New York and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: rest of America. You know, Paris is a very international

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Speaker 1: city and it changes as the world changes. The rest

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Speaker 1: of France is a little slower. Oh yeah, let's switch

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Speaker 1: to your music career. At this point, do you have

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Speaker 1: an age and do you have a manager or do

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Speaker 1: you do it all yourself or what do you do

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Speaker 1: or not do personally? I do some of it myself,

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Speaker 1: but I do have an agent in usually each country

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Speaker 1: who manages, who finds the shows and organizes them. In France,

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Speaker 1: I went in Spain, Italy, Germany. Uh. So I don't

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Speaker 1: do it all myself in terms of touring. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that's possible. You can really, you can't do that. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I started out, how far you want to go back?

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Speaker 1: But go back to the beginning. It's a long winding road.

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Speaker 1: You know. I did my first album in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: three on on Polydor, which I've heard you talk about

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Speaker 1: what Polydor was like in the seventies, And of course

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Speaker 1: I owned that album and I bought it because you know,

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Speaker 1: the press was unbelievable. It was unbelievable, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of shot me out of the counton in a way

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Speaker 1: that I've been able to stay up, stay up in

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Speaker 1: the air ever since. But that album, Acqua Show, which

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Speaker 1: came out on Polydor, got tremendous critical acclaim and you know,

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Speaker 1: Rolling Stone proclaimed me and Bruce Springsteen the new Bob Dylan's.

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Speaker 1: Our albums were reviewed together and Uh, and it was tremendous.

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Speaker 1: You know, I really went overnight from you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of living on food stamps to uh staying at the

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Hotel. Ah, but it was an interesting time,

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Speaker 1: as you know. You know, I feel very fortunate that

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Speaker 1: I came about in this golden age of music. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we really did showcases in New York with my band,

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Speaker 1: knocked on doors of record companies. Half the time you

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Speaker 1: were ludden, you could give someone your demo. That's what

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Speaker 1: we did at Polydor. In fact, we walked into Polydor,

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Speaker 1: we had just come from w Warner Brothers, and we

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Speaker 1: were we got a kind of positive reaction there, but

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Speaker 1: we were told they had to send it out to

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Speaker 1: the West Coast and see what they thought. But we

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Speaker 1: knocked on the Lord Polydor and we asked their receptions

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Speaker 1: as that's what we wanted us with my brother Matthew Uh,

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Speaker 1: who's had an amazing career as a tour manager. He

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Speaker 1: works for Steve Martin now and the Seven says how

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Speaker 1: can I help you? And I said, is there anyone

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Speaker 1: who can listen to our demo? And she calls someone

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Speaker 1: and someone from A and R KM out brought us back,

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Speaker 1: listened to our demo, said listen, can you guys do

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Speaker 1: an audition at Bill's Musical Instrument Rental. If there's anyone

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Speaker 1: listening here from the old days, they will remember that name.

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Speaker 1: Two days later we did that audition in front of

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Speaker 1: Peter Siegel, who was the head of A and R there.

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Speaker 1: He said, you got a deal, We got a lawyer. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we got a contract. And to show you how innocent

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Speaker 1: we were, Bob, when I got the check for the advance,

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Speaker 1: I had no bank account. I had to go to

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Speaker 1: Polydor's bank and cash the check. And it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: much anyway, but well, do you remember how much it was?

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Speaker 1: It was ten thou and you took that in cash.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of cash. Would you do with it?

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Speaker 1: Ten tho much? It's only about this thick actually, well

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Speaker 1: we don't have video, but he showing about this about

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Speaker 1: an inch. Well. I gave some of it to the

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Speaker 1: guys in the band who helped me get to that point.

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Speaker 1: But Polydori didn't want to sign the rest of the

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Speaker 1: guys in the band. They just wanted me and my

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Speaker 1: brother Matthew, because I thought we had the hair. They

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Speaker 1: thought we looked like the new Allman Brothers or something.

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Speaker 1: And then they sent us out to l A to

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Speaker 1: record our album and I recorded started to do an

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Speaker 1: album with producer named Thomas Jefferson Kay, who was no

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Speaker 1: longer with us, but me and him did not see

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Speaker 1: eye to eye. How did that even happen? Which part?

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Speaker 1: How did you get hooked up with Thomas and Jefferson Kay.

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Speaker 1: Thomas and Jefferson Ka had just had a hit with

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Speaker 1: loud and Wainwright called Dead Skunk in the Middle of

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Speaker 1: the Road, and Louden was also in that new Bob

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Speaker 1: Dylan category. So I think Peter Siegel, who was the

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Speaker 1: head of A and R, he thought it was It

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Speaker 1: was an obvious move. And Thomas Tommy Kay heard us

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Speaker 1: play in New York and he liked it, and he

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Speaker 1: brought us out to l A. And we did one

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Speaker 1: day in the studio, but he was heading much too

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Speaker 1: much in a country direction for me and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to sound like Blonde Blonde Our Highway sixty one or

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Speaker 1: something like that, our exile on Main Street. So something

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Speaker 1: happened that trip. It was after the first day in

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Speaker 1: the studio we were sitting in was it the Rainbow

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Speaker 1: I think the Rainbow was that still exists absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: it's not much different. And we're sitting there and I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: what am I gonna do. I'm gonna call the record

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Speaker 1: company and tell them this is not working out. I'm

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Speaker 1: a nobody, you know. I just got signed. And I

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Speaker 1: put my arm up like this. It was like those

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Speaker 1: banquet kind of seating. Maybe those are still there, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and I bumped into someone behind me. It was Bob

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Speaker 1: Dillan Okay, I swear I bumped into his shoulder. I

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Speaker 1: turned for out an excuse me. He was sitting at

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Speaker 1: a star studded table with Joni Mitchell and Jack Nicholson,

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Speaker 1: and and that just I don't know, it was like

382
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Speaker 1: an epiphany, you know. I said, wow, okay, I'm gonna

383
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Speaker 1: call them. We did. When Bob left, we did try

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Speaker 1: and follow him in his car, but he lost us

385
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Speaker 1: pretty pretty I think he might have been with Bobby

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Speaker 1: Neworth that I can't stay for say for sure. And

387
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Speaker 1: I called up Polydor and I said, listen, this is

388
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Speaker 1: not working. We came back to New York and Peter

389
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: Siegel himself decided he would produce the album. Put together

390
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Speaker 1: a great team of musicians. Gene Parsons from The Birds

391
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Speaker 1: was the drummer. We had Frank Owens on the keyboards,

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Speaker 1: who played on Highway sixty one on that album. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We recorded at the record Plant. And this was also

394
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Speaker 1: at the time the New York glam scene was happening,

395
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Speaker 1: you know, so the New York Dolls were also recording

396
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Speaker 1: at the record Plan. You know. They were down on

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Speaker 1: the first floor and it was like a Mardi Gras.

398
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Speaker 1: I mean it was just wild, you know, them all

399
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Speaker 1: their girlfriends and boy, it was just packed with people.

400
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Speaker 1: We were up on the tenth floor in the other

401
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Speaker 1: studio B and it was like a church, you know,

402
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Speaker 1: I mean, totally quiet and serious. But we made Acquisher.

403
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: Peter Siegel produced it. It came out and bam. Polydor

404
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: didn't know what it hit them, really because they had

405
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Speaker 1: never had an album like this that got so much

406
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: pressed so quickly, and they try their best, but before

407
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: you get there, were you ultimately happy with the album

408
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: that came out. I was very happy with the album

409
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Speaker 1: came out with Acquisher. Pollin Or puts it up. They

410
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Speaker 1: don't know what hit them. Keep going, they don't know

411
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Speaker 1: what hit them. You know, I'm in before I know it,

412
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Speaker 1: I'm in Rolling Stone, I'm in Newsweek because you know,

413
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Speaker 1: there were two or three angles the press picked up.

414
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Speaker 1: One was the new Bob Dylan thing. The other was

415
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Speaker 1: the literary as Scott Fitzgerald thing. But the other was

416
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Speaker 1: the suburban rock. You know that I was complaining about

417
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Speaker 1: the suburbs and songs like white metal, class blues, hometown.

418
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Speaker 1: And there was an article in Newsweek with me and

419
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Speaker 1: Billy Joel called a pain in the Suburbs, you know

420
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Speaker 1: about our music. I got my picture, not Billy. So

421
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Speaker 1: I went on on tour, open for the Kinks, open

422
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Speaker 1: for Jefferson Starship, but Polydor just could not bring it home.

423
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Speaker 1: At this time, I lou Reid came into the picture.

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Speaker 1: Now I got to go back a little. Uh. When

425
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Speaker 1: I was first knocking on doors in New York to

426
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Speaker 1: get a deal at Mercury, there was a man named

427
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Speaker 1: Paul Nelson. He was head of A and R at Mercury,

428
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: also a rock writer, the same Paul Nelson, Right, that's

429
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: the rock he's passed away in unfortunately, but he signed

430
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: the New York Dolls. He had gone to school with

431
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan in Minneapolis. In the short time Bob was

432
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: at university there and him and he became kind of

433
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: a mentor to me. Although Mercury offered me a deal

434
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: for five thousand dollars, so even less than Polydor's terrible deal.

435
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: So uh, Paul Nelson at that time that Mercury was

436
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: putting out an album of live, a live Velvet Underground album.

437
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: It was called Live nineteen nine. I owned that record

438
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: double album absolutely well. If you open it up, I

439
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: wrote the liner notes. Haven't looked at it for a while,

440
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: but I'm sure I knew that when I looked at it.

441
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: Paul asked me if I would write liner notes for that,

442
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: and I love the Velvet Underground Loaded. It was one

443
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: of my all time favorite albums still is. And I

444
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: was riding home on the Long Expressway and I wrote

445
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: those liner notes. And the next time I came into

446
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: the city, my mother who lived in the city, and

447
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: that was the number that Paul Nelson had. I guess

448
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: he had asked lou Read if these notes were okay

449
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: with him, and lou Reid called my mother. I showed

450
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: up at her apartment and she said, it is very nice.

451
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: Little Read called you. We had a long conversation because

452
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: He's from Freeport, Long Island and I was from Baldwin,

453
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: right next to each other anyway, And I'll never forget.

454
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: My mother passed away a few years ago at ninety too,

455
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: but she still remembered that conversation because the last word

456
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: she said to Lou, she said, Lou, my son will

457
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: be very happy you called. And LU said why and

458
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: she said, because he's a big admirer of yours, and

459
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: LU said, isn't everybody. So then I got to know

460
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: Lou a little bit, and every time I do a

461
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: show in New York, Lou would come down. We got

462
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: to be friends, and he said, Elliott, you gotta get

463
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 1: off Polydor, you gotta get on our c A, because

464
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 1: he was on our CIA at the time. And I

465
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: started working with Lose manager Dennis Katz. Did you have

466
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: a manager? Before that? I was with Leeber and Cribs,

467
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: Steve Leeb and David Cribs because they had the Dolls

468
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: and they were very involved in that that New York

469
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: glam scene which came out of the Mercer Arts Center,

470
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: which was eventually fell down by the way to find

471
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: that whole scene of the New York bands, the Dolls

472
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: me Patty's Smith. The biggest group that came out of

473
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: it was Kiss. They came out of that. So I

474
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: left liber and Crebs. At that point, I went with

475
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: Dennis Katz. He got our c A to pay Polydora

476
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand just for my contract, plus

477
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: some money for me a four album deal. Now at

478
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: this time Clive Davis, who had also come to some

479
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: of my shows in New York and Uh, I was

480
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: very friendly with a guy named Bob Phiden who has

481
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: passed away, but he worked with Clive and Clive was

482
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: just starting Arista and Clive also order UH. He also

483
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: offered me a deal, but Lucid, no, you gotta go

484
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: with our CIA. Lady. When I'm gonna produce you, you're

485
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: gonna go to our c A. They love me there,

486
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: So I went with our CIA. I've always wondered if

487
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: that was you know, in anyone's career, you have these crossroads.

488
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: You wonder if you took the right move. But I

489
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: followed loose advice of course. Us Two years later, Lou

490
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: left our c A and went with Arista himself, but

491
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: Lou didn't lu Didn ended up not producing that album

492
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: because he had some problems with the law. In fact,

493
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: I think fake prescriptions or something out in Long Island.

494
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: Uh So I went out to l A and I

495
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: worked with Paul Rothschild, who was the Doors producer, and

496
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: I did my my second album with him in l A.

497
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: That's when I really got to know the Beverly Hills.

498
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I knew Paul Rothschild. He was a man

499
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: who believed in his opinion. I wouldn't quite call him

500
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: easy going. How was that experience and were you happy

501
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: with the results. I love Paul's musical side. You know,

502
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: he really didn't know his music. He came out of

503
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: that New York folks scene. Uh. You know, he produced

504
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: the first Paul Butterfield blues Man album, not to mention

505
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: Janice Joplin and of course all those classic Doors. Um.

506
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: He was a bit of a diva as a producer.

507
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 1: And the head of ann R for r C at

508
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: that time was a guy named Mike Bernerker. Now, Mike

509
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: had been a staff producer at Colombia and produced people

510
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: by Barbara Streisand and he was convinced any solo act

511
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: had to have a strong ballot. And you know, they

512
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: got into a screaming argument about that and at Electra

513
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: Studios where I was, where we recorded that album. But

514
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: I was happy with that album. Has a Man. We

515
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: had Jim Gordon on the drums. Did you know at

516
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: the time that he was insane? We didn't not know.

517
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: He was the sweetest. He was a teddy bear of

518
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: a guy. I'm in a big teddy bear, but he

519
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: was the sweetest guy. And he went on, I mean,

520
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: everybody knows the story, schizophrenic, he killed his mother. I

521
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 1: think he's still in a psyche metric hospital. But for me,

522
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: two years before that, I had seen him playing with

523
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton and Derek and the Dominoes, and I thought

524
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: this drummer had the most swing of any drummer I

525
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: had ever seen in my heard in my life. We

526
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: had him, We had Richard t who had come from

527
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: Paul Simon. We had sunny Land with a great slide player.

528
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: We had Steve brou Paul Roch had just brought up

529
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of musicians from New Orleans who went on

530
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: to be in Toto. The lead singer was Bobby Kimball.

531
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: Bobby Kimball. Bobby Kimball sang background on that album with me.

532
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: But yes, I am happy with that. I wish our

533
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: cia had not interfered as much with the order of

534
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: the songs, and we kind of have to remix some

535
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: things that they thought were too rock and roll for them.

536
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: But take a sip of water here. And I loved

537
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: l A and I loved l A. And I got

538
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,239
Speaker 1: to hang out with Glenn Fry for a while, who

539
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: was a very guy. Well, just slow down a little bit.

540
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: How did you meet Glenn Fry? I met Glenn Fry.

541
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: My wife was friends with a woman named Sandy Gibson, publicist. Yeah,

542
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: and Sandy knew everybody, and she took us to some

543
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: parties and Glenn was there. And that Ned Doheny was

544
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: the guitar player on that album, and that was involved

545
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: in that credit. I loved you know that the music

546
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: coming out of l A at the time. Jackson Brown

547
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: of course, and uh. And I was a big fan

548
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: of the Eagles, although the East Coast rock establishment did

549
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: not give them an easy time. But I love the Eagles,

550
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: So that was that was the experience there. But that

551
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: that album UH again got great critical reception, not quite

552
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: as great as Zach was show. I had a big

553
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: supporter and Robert Hillburn, big critic for the Los Angeles Times,

554
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: arguably the most in the country, arguably, yes, most important,

555
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: most powerful. I mean he would rate a couple of

556
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: songs as his best on that album, as the best

557
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: singles of the year. Uh. And then for the next time,

558
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: I went back to New York and worked with Dennis

559
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: Katzs brother, Steve Katz, who came from Blood, Sweat and Tears,

560
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: because Steve had produced Lou Reed as well Sally Can't Dance,

561
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: which till his dying day, Lou hated that album, but

562
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: I can tell you when he made it, he loved

563
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: that album. But I don't know why he disowned it

564
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: almost but he loved it well when I know. Uh.

565
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: So we worked with Steve Katz, recorded an Electric Ladies Studios.

566
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: Billy Joel played on a couple of cuts, but still

567
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: it just didn't break. It just didn't break. It's the

568
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: same question, were you happy with the end broducts. There's

569
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: a couple of songs on that album, Diamonds by the

570
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: Yard Isadora's Dancers. I would not change the thing. I

571
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: was very happy with the end result and the song

572
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: Billy Joel played on called Deco dance still one of

573
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: my all time favorites. Uh, but I was. I was

574
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: not happy with Our c A at that point with

575
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: my career. Then, in a complete reversal, Libra Cribs started

576
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: barking at my door again and told me that if

577
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: I came back to them, maybe they could get me

578
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: on Columbia where they had Errol Smith, who was the

579
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: person who was interested in you. Because they were quite

580
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: different characters. Although they're still with us Libre or Cribs

581
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: and what was their pitch, they were quite different characters.

582
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: I started out with Cribs in the early days. The

583
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: first time I was with Libring Cribs, but he seemed

584
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: to be more involved with Errol Smith. That was really

585
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: his baby. He really discovered them Steve. Then I got

586
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: more involved with Steven. Steve was a long Island guy

587
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: like me, and Steve talked Colombia into paying Our c

588
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: A another hundred and fifty thousand dollars to buy that contract,

589
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: plus some money from me. And I was also very

590
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: close with Arma Anden. I don't know if that name

591
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: rings a bell. He was the vice president up there

592
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: at the time, working with Bruce lun Voll. The guys

593
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: I worked with at Colombia. You know Bill Freston. I

594
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: don't know if you know Bill. Bill first Tom's brother,

595
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: Tom Freston's brother. They sent me to England to do

596
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: Just a Story from America, which was my fourth major

597
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: label album there, and I worked with an engineer named

598
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Robin Cable, Robin Jeffrey Cable, who would came from

599
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: Trident Studios. That was a family worked with. He had

600
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: been the engineer in a lot of Elton John albums

601
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: and things. And I had Phil Collins on the drums

602
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: and I'm I never forget wing Phil. In between sessions

603
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 1: he Genesis. Peter Gabriel had just left Genesis, and I said,

604
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 1: what are you guys gonna do now? And he said,

605
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, we've had auditioned so many singers. I'm so discussed.

606
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: Stood I might just sing myself and that's what he

607
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: did and the rest is history. So that album came out,

608
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: Just a Story from America, and of course for the

609
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: fourth time. Were you happy with that? I was very

610
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: happy with that album. Like okay, you know, Bob, I

611
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: made a lot of bad business decisions back then, and

612
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: I had some personal problems, you know, I had some

613
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: demons I had to deal with, like almost everybody in

614
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: the seventies. But musically I feel I made the right decisions,

615
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, and the fact that all those albums are

616
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: still almost available, still have lived on they're all still

617
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: not Spotify and everywhere else, you know. So I was

618
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: happy with that result. But I was really happy about

619
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: when there was one track on just a Story from

620
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: America called Anastasia, which became kind of a minor hit

621
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: in France. Uh. And that's what brought me to France

622
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: the first time to do like a promo tour, and

623
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: I realized there was interest there and that kind of

624
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: started lit the fires the reason I am there today.

625
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: So I'm very happy in terms of that. What I'm

626
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: not happy about it is it's very difficult to get

627
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: royalty statements out of these companies. Okay, one step at

628
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: one time, the album comes out, it's a regional hit

629
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: in France. What is your experience with Columbia, what happens

630
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: going forward with the label and the manager the liber

631
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: Crebs philosophy in my opinion back then, and they were

632
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: both former agents. I think Steve was the head of

633
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: the music department, William Morris, uh, you know, to give

634
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: them credit, they did a thing called Beatlemania, right, they

635
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: got sued after they lost a lot of the profits.

636
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, but they were really ahead of their times

637
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: with that. I mean now they're attribute Broadway type shows

638
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: all over the world. You know. Everybody put down Beatlemania,

639
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: including the clash in the song, you know. But they

640
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: were both agents, and their philosophy was to break baby

641
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: acts like me. It's to call me a baby act.

642
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: Was to open for bigger acts. And I did a

643
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: long tour with E. L. O open for Elo, a

644
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: lot of dates, opening for Hall and Oates, Billy Joe,

645
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: and you know, when you're opening for someone like Electric

646
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: Light Orchestra who I Love Loved Uh, and you're dinner

647
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: in an arena and you've got thirty minutes and the

648
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: people are still walking in and you get half the

649
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: lights and half the sound, I don't think you make

650
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: much of an impact. Now. My buddy Bruce Springsteen, he

651
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: was smarter than me, and I think at a very

652
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: early point he said, I don't want to do these

653
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: opening acts anymore. He was opening for Chicago, I think

654
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: for a while. I saw him just yesterday and we

655
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: were talking about all the acts we had opened for

656
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: back in the day. I think he said he had

657
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: opened for Black Oak, Arkansas. And I saw Bruce the

658
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: first time when he is at Maxis Kansas City. I

659
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: think he was opening for Bob Marley or something like that. Anyway,

660
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: he made a decision he was not doing that. He

661
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: would rather play the small clubs on his own. But

662
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: I went along with the liber Creb's philosophy. But it

663
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 1: was very disheartening, you know, you just really never felt

664
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: you were making an impact. I should have gone out

665
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: probably on a solo acoustic tour, you know. Uh. So

666
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: that kind of all ended, and then there was a

667
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of internal struggle going on at Columbia, my feeling

668
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: Walter yet Nikoff and Bruce Lonvoll and Lieber and Crebs,

669
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: and you know, I was kind of a collateral damage

670
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: of that. And in ninety eight I found myself without

671
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: a label. Really I left Liebre Crebs. Uh. I thought

672
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: I was gonna do it all on my own, and

673
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: that was literally impossible. And it was really one of

674
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: the lowest points in my life. My brother at the

675
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 1: time was working at as the tour manager for Talking Heads,

676
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: and I was broke. I was broke and they needed

677
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: to move some equipment gear and I was driving a truck,

678
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: you know, to make a hundred bucks to move on amplifier,

679
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: and I remember I fell asleep at the wheel. I

680
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: almost on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I just pulled off

681
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: to the side of the road. Tears came out of

682
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: my eyes. You know, how did I get to this

683
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: point in my career? And then I kind of slowly

684
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: but surely picked myself up, uh you know, stopped all

685
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: my bad habits. Okay, wait, wait, let's not paper over that.

686
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: You talk about your demons which were the hindrance to

687
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: the success of your career, Go a little deeper. What

688
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: were those demons? I mean, you're a very calm on

689
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: the ball guy. What were you like back then and

690
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: what were the demons? Well? I think, like you know,

691
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: I hate to come off as one of those uh

692
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: sobriety changed my life kind of artists, but you know

693
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: it was the old story of cocaine and alcohol. Really

694
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: that was it. And that the way that really impact

695
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: in my career was I think that came more of

696
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: my priority than then the music, you know, the the lifestyle,

697
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: rather than the making them making the music my priority.

698
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: Although I did manage to make albums that have stood

699
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: the test of time, and I'm very great for that,

700
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: you know. But I dropped those demons, and I I

701
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: really started from the bottom again. Wait, wait, just a

702
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: couple of things really slow. How did you drop those demons? Well,

703
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: I went to the usual twelve step programs. Usually there's like,

704
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: you know you're at the bottom, there's a moment of awakening.

705
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: Tell me about that moment of awakening before you went

706
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: to the twelve step program. Okay, uh, you can't read

707
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: about this in my memoir. Just to start from America,

708
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: if I can put in a pitch that is available

709
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: on Amazon, both in an audiobook and in a paperback.

710
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 1: It has also been published in Spanish and French versions. Okay, Bob,

711
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: this is what happened. It was five, I guess, and

712
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: and I was. It was about ten o'clock in the morning.

713
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: I had been up all the night before. You know,

714
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: I was stoned. I was chugging vodka. I was dropping

715
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: value m I was looking for anything on the shag

716
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: carpet that resembled cocaine. And I was just basically saying, God,

717
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 1: don't let me die. At this moment, you know, and

718
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: this voice, it wasn't a voice in any other worldly sense,

719
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: but I just got this message that this is what

720
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: you do, and this is what you'll continue to do.

721
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: And uh. And I had to catch a flight that

722
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: afternoon to go out to Milwaukee to work with Jerry

723
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: Harrison from the Talking Heads. And Jerry had been in

724
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: my band and he had recorded night Lights with many

725
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: of the tracks on that and he had taken an

726
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: interest in my career and he wanted me to record

727
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: out in Milwaukee with them. And I caught a plane

728
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: that afternoon. I got to Milwaukee. I discovered some people

729
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: you know who who were recovering from drugs and alcohol

730
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: and I hooked up with them. And that was thirty

731
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: seven years ago. Okay, part of the twelve step processes,

732
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: you have to make amends. What was your experience there

733
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: going back to all these people to make amends that

734
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: you can remember. I didn't have to make any amends

735
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: to any labels that I remember. I was hoping I

736
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: might receive some, but you know, maybe maybe I think

737
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: with some of the musicians I worked with, I had

738
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: a band and when I left to go to London

739
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: to do just Store of America. I really didn't even

740
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: let the band know what I was doing. You know.

741
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: There were some things like that, uh, family, family things.

742
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: But you know they say the biggest a men, you

743
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 1: have to make it to yourself. And I guess that

744
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: for me that was the most important. You know. I

745
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 1: really had an incredible opportunity in the for my music,

746
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: and I did not respect it enough in those days.

747
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: I remember once I was having in my heyday with

748
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: Eric Anderson. You know Eric, I've met him, I seen him. Yeah,

749
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: famous folk singer, still alive living in another expatriate America,

750
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: right right, Scandinavia. And uh we were sitting there with

751
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: with Bob finding a couple of people, and Eric said

752
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: to me, you know, Elliott, you gotta pay your dues.

753
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: And I said, Eric, I'd rather collect the dudes, you know.

754
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: So that was my attitude. I've changed, Bob. Okay, just

755
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: a couple of clean up things. Do you still go

756
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: to meetings? Oh? I do? Yeah, yeah, I do? How frequently? Well,

757
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: there's there's lots of them in Paris, I mean since

758
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: the COVID you know, it's all on zoom right well

759
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: as we are today. But yeah, I gotta have a

760
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: lot of friends there. And when I used to go

761
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: to meetings in New York, the great thing was that

762
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: all the people I used to get high with were

763
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: in the meetings. You know, that's funny. Okay, you mentioned

764
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: a couple of times royalties. Let's drill down there right

765
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: for a second. So there's record royalties and publishing royalties.

766
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 1: Let's start with record royalties. Needless to say, one would

767
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: think you were in the whole at these labels. Did

768
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: they charge your royalty account these hundred and fifty k

769
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: that the other labels paid to get you off? What's

770
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: going on? There's what's going on and what was supposed

771
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: to go on. I mean, as I understood the situation

772
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: when r c A paid Polydor hunt thousand, that was

773
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: supposed to leave me with a clean slate at Polydor,

774
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: and I was supposed to start getting paid royalties from

775
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: Record one because that basically what Polydor was saying they

776
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: had invested. Same with our CIA. Uh with Colombia. It

777
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: was more complicated because I was signed to Columbia through

778
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: a production company that Libra Crepsa and I think it's

779
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: called Contemporary Communications. Now, after many years of struggle and

780
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: with the help of my dear friend Kenny my Salue.

781
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: You know Kenny my Salue, No I know the name.

782
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he is an attorney's with Alan

783
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: Groupman firm and he is if we got a minute,

784
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: so Kenny buy Salas. When I was playing in St.

785
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: Louis opening for E l O. Uh, he was in

786
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: a punk band and he liked my music and he

787
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: came to my hotel room to meet me. And my

788
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: brother was the tour manager and he said, no, you

789
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 1: can't disturb Elliott. But I came to the door, saw him.

790
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: I liked him, and we chatted for a while. And

791
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: he has gone on to be just a real mover

792
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: and a shaker, and I mean his clients are Lady Gaga,

793
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: Puff Daddy. I mean, just incredible guy. And so he

794
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: has helped me try to get some royalty statements out

795
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: of them. But it's complicated because now our c A

796
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: is part of Sony, So those two r c A

797
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 1: albums and uh so that's the situation of that publishing side.

798
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: It's easy. Before we leave that A, do you even

799
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: get statements irrelevant of getting paid? And if you ever

800
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: got opinion royalties, I get statements. Now I got a

801
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: statement from Sony. Uh. I used to get statements from Polydor.

802
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: They stopped with Polydor. I was always like, you know,

803
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: twenty five dollars in the red or something. You know,

804
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: it never seemed to increase that. Uh So I've never

805
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: received any record royalties from either of those companies in

806
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: uh forty years now, Kenny been working with you. Is

807
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: there any income in the future or you in arrears?

808
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: What do you project going forward? Well, what I hope

809
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: is that there always this movement on artists being able

810
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: to reclaim their albums after a certain number of years. Unfortunately,

811
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: the one Copyright Act which which impacts that, it was

812
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: for albums recorded after and all my four major label

813
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: albums were recorded before that, so they're kind of in limbo.

814
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: But I'm hoping you know, it's not really for me, Bob,

815
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: It's for my my son just at some point to

816
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: establish who owns those albums. And you know, when you know,

817
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: when Chevrolet decides to use drive All Night as their

818
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: theme song for the new commercial, that somebody will be

819
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: there to collect some royalties. So tell me about the

820
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: publishing song. Publishing side is much easier because from the

821
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: very beginning. Everyone used to tell me, hold onto your publishing,

822
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 1: Hold onto your publishing, and I did for the most part.

823
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I have my two R C A albums.

824
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: I had to give half to their publishing company, which

825
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: then turned into Warner Chapel, but they I get royalty

826
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 1: statements from them and and all the rest. I own

827
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: all my publishing. So and I'm in France, the equivalent

828
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: of of as Captain b M I is called Sassam.

829
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: Maybe you've heard of that. And uh, they're they're really

830
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: very good society. And I have healthcare through them. I

831
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: have a lot of things through them. So the publishing

832
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: side has been pretty pretty good, okay. And is their

833
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: income in addition to the benefits is their income from

834
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: from publishing? You get your health care, you get other benefits,

835
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and I get yeah. And also in Europe,

836
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: when you play shows, a portion of the ticket sales

837
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: goes to the to the publisher of the songs that

838
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: are played, and after each show you got to fill

839
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: out a form to say what shows, what songs you performed.

840
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: That's not the same in America. America, it is much

841
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: more a winner take all. You know, it's uh, it's

842
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: a feaster famine situation. But in Europe they tend to

843
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: take more care with with the artists in the middle

844
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: and songwriters in the middle. So I do get. I

845
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: do get. For many years, Sasam has treated me very well.

846
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: You mentioned your son when we talked previously. You said

847
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: your son, although raised in France, went to college in America.

848
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit more about him and what's

849
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: he's what he's up to today. Gas Bar Murphy is

850
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: my son. He's thirty one years old and he went

851
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: to He grew up in France. He speaks English like me,

852
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: speaks French like his mother. Uh. He got a guitar

853
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: when he was twelve years old and just fell in

854
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: love with a kind of similar same story with me.

855
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: And he got into production very early, you know, like

856
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: it was using pro tools when I first came out.

857
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: He went to soon he purchased which is a State

858
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: University of New York school in Purchase in Westchester County

859
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: where they have a marvelous UH studio production program. So

860
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: he came to the US. He went to four years

861
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 1: that got his degree. UH. During that time he did

862
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: some amazing things. Uh. He had to do like an

863
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: apprentice thing during one summer. So I asked Bruce if

864
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: he knew a studio he could work at or something

865
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: like that, and Bruce Sprinstein said, well, he can come

866
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: on the road with me. So gas Bar went on

867
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: the road with Bruce Springsteen and the Eastreet Band for

868
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: a couple of months. That was wonderful. My brother at

869
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: the time was working for a bank called Incubus. He

870
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: went on the road with Incubus for a little while

871
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: as well, and he did a long internship with a

872
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: very well known mixer named Tony Maserati. You may have

873
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: heard of him. Wonderful guy. You know, he's from Beyonce

874
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: on down. He's done everybody and gaspar worked with him

875
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: for for quite a while and now he's back in

876
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: Paris and he's got his own studio and he's he's

877
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: he's been pretty successful, you know, as a as a

878
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: producer and a mixer. When he has time, he will

879
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: work with me. He produced my last you know, five albums,

880
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: and we have a new single coming out on May

881
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: twenty which is called Hope in Your Eyes that will

882
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: be out on all the Spotify and all the platforms. Okay,

883
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: a couple of questions there you're from New York. Well

884
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: you're living in Paris. He goes to Sunny Purchase. Did

885
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: you get in state rates? He did not. Okay, so

886
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 1: you paid through those good taxpayer good Night's left wing

887
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: not working yet? Yeah? Yeah. The second thing for an

888
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: artist like you who has never gotten record royalties anyway,

889
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: what's your view on streaming helping? Hurting? Agnostic? You know,

890
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 1: for me, bum it's been a godsend. You know, I'm

891
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: the not just streating, but the whole Internet has teared

892
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: down the wall between me and my fans that I

893
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 1: used to have to go through a major label to

894
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: get to. But for digital distribution, I'm with a company

895
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: called Believe. If you've heard of them. They started in France, US,

896
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: but now they're they're a major player all over the world.

897
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: They get my albums out everywhere. Uh. I'm pretty active

898
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: on social media and those who A lot of people

899
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: are upset about the money from streaming, but I have

900
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: to remind them, you know, back in the day, radio

901
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: didn't play pay anything, nothing, just just to the publishers,

902
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: but nothing to the Uh So I'm okay with streaming. Okay,

903
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: let's go back to the moment. We're falling asleep at

904
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: the wheel and you're at your low thing. You thought

905
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: about doing yourself? How do you rebuild your career at

906
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: that point? What do you actually do? What I had

907
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: to do was learn how to record albums on a

908
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: very smaller budget than I was used to. Let's start

909
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: before that. Did you ever contemplate giving up and going straight?

910
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: I did in the mid eighties, Well, going straight, I

911
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: don't know. In the mid eighties, it was really a

912
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: tough time and I was just getting sober, and I

913
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: got a job at a law firm, a music law

914
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: firm called Prior, Cashman, Sherman and Flynn. They were on

915
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: Park Avenue in New York, and I worked for a

916
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: litigator named Don Zacharin, great guy. In his famous case

917
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: was about the song Feelings and Feelings, and that there

918
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: was a French writer, interestingly enough, who said he had

919
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: written the song and sent it so anyway, so I'm

920
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: sitting there in this office and there was another music

921
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: business attorney and after a couple of weeks there, he

922
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: came over me. He said, listen, a lot of people

923
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: are coming here into my office and they're saying that

924
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 1: this legal secretary looks like this singer songwriterer Elliott Murphy,

925
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: is that you? And I said, yeah, it is. And

926
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: he said, well, what are you doing here? And I said, well,

927
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of tough times in the music business.

928
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: I needed a job. And I I said, I'm you know,

929
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm actually thinking of becoming a lawyer, because during this

930
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 1: time I went back to college, I got my degree,

931
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: and I was really thinking about becoming a lawyer. And

932
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: he just looked at me and said, don't do it now, Bob.

933
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: I think you're you got some legal background there. I

934
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: got a similar story. But this is about you. You know.

935
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: My father always said, you know, get a law degree.

936
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: It's good background. Never was good background until Napster hit.

937
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 1: But I certainly never wanted to practice law and didn't

938
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: practice that much. That experience working at the law from

939
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: I worked there for two years was marvelous because, as

940
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: I said, the week I got there, if anyone can remember,

941
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: they switched from typewriters to computers. So I was sent

942
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: to for two weeks. I was learned how to use

943
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: a computer and word processing. I did all my work

944
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: there to get my degree. I went back to a

945
00:56:55,719 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 1: school called Empire State University, which is turning mostly adult educational.

946
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: I got my AM bachelor's degree there. They had a

947
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: telex remember telex, of course I used to arrange all

948
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: They'd let me go to Europe every once in a

949
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: while a couple of weeks on a tour. I did

950
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: all my touring through telex. So and what was most

951
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: important I learned that, you know, two lawyers can be

952
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: fighting about something and creating reams and reams of paper,

953
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, a judge is

954
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: going to write two lines and say who wins. So

955
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: it was really an eye opening experience. How did you do?

956
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: The music kept pulling me back. It was just too

957
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: much was going on. I had an album that came

958
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: out that was nominated for New York Music Award. I

959
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 1: don't think those exist anymore. I was getting more and

960
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: more offers to come to Europe to play. Um uh.

961
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: I was you know people today called at least over there,

962
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: they called me a pioneer in terms of independent artists.

963
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: Because when I went to Europe for the first time

964
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: in seventy nine, I saw that people licensed their albums

965
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: two smaller labels all that you know, you'd have one

966
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: in France when in Spain one in Scat and everyone. Uh.

967
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 1: I had never heard of that concept before, and they said,

968
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: all you gotta do is gather for me to make

969
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: the product and then you can license it. And so

970
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: we started licensing, you know, and I started to get

971
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: a really good relation with about five or six companies

972
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: over there. When you say we who's week, it was

973
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: with my brother. My brother and I had a girlfriend

974
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: at the time named Kathleen Smith, and she was also

975
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: involved a little bit. Just to be clear, your brother

976
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: was originally in your band before he was a road manager. Yes,

977
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: my brother Matthew. He played bass on Acqua Show. Uh

978
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: and then uh, right before the second album he had

979
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: a car accident. Really couldn't play the bass anymore. I

980
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: had to keep moving forward. Uh. It was kind of

981
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: a heartbreaking time. He has gone on to be he

982
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: He started work with all those New York bands like

983
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: Robert Gordon Talking Heads B fifty two has worked with

984
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 1: the Rhythmics for a long time now. He has the

985
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: dream to our manager job because he's worked for Steve

986
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: Martin for the last twelve years. Steve Martin and Martin

987
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: short and just great guys and he loves working with them.

988
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: I think he's done better than he might have done

989
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:36,439
Speaker 1: as my base. Okay, so you're done with Columbia, You're

990
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: done with libre cribs. You're picking up a hundred dollars

991
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: here and there. You decide you want to go independent?

992
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: How do you actually do it? How do you actually

993
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: make your next record? How does it come together? Well?

994
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: I was also playing. I was doing kind of a

995
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: house band at a club Quilled Tramps in New York

996
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: with David Johansson was there from the New York Dolls,

997
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: and I would play there every wednes Day night. Every

998
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: Wednesday night. It rained. Anyway, I kept writing songs. I

999
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 1: got some time at the Record Plan because I've done

1000
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: two albums there and they let me. They gave me

1001
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: a little time. We recorded six tracks to make an EP.

1002
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: Got the mastered by my friend Greg Calbayo, was a

1003
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: mastering engineer in New York who you know, really gave

1004
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: me a great deal. And then we had to figure out, well,

1005
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: then what do you do? How do you make the records?

1006
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: So there was actually a pressing plant in Midtown Manhattan,

1007
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: and we I finally saw how records are made. You know,

1008
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: it's amazing. You go in there. They'd have these machines

1009
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: that look like they're making pancakes or wildfles. They take

1010
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: this little round piece of plastic, put it in the middle,

1011
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: two labels on either side. Next thing you know, it

1012
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: was all run by Eastern European ladies. And so we

1013
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: started pressing albums. Affairs was the name of that albums,

1014
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: my first independent release. Now, although my brother was working

1015
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: with me, he was also on tour a lot with

1016
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: the bands. I had mentioned what year are we in?

1017
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: Were in about? And crazy Eddie does that ring about?

1018
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: Of course, the electronics prices are insane, right as I say, well,

1019
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: they were all They also sold vinyl, they sold records.

1020
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: They were big and they were they were so they

1021
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: had sold like a hundred of my albums and they

1022
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: had ordered more. But my brother was out of town.

1023
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: So I took the phone call and I brought the

1024
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: albums down there myself, and I walked in Southern manager

1025
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 1: and I said, you ordered the Elliott Murphy albums. He

1026
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: said yes, he said, aren't you Elliot Murphy. He said yes,

1027
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: he said, and you delivered the albums yourself. I said yes,

1028
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: He said why, I said, well, you know, after four

1029
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: albums with the majors. Now I like total artistic control.

1030
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: So so that was my experience and I just really

1031
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: learned the whole business, you know, making little publishing deals,

1032
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: making licensing deals all over. It was. It was really

1033
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: an education. I don't think that business model exists anymore.

1034
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: So it's these businesses all require money. Where did you

1035
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: get the money to pay for the records and the

1036
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: little like paying the reduced rate to Calby, etcetera. Touring?

1037
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: That was all from touring. So it was all your money. Yeah,

1038
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: that was all our money. Yeah, I think it was

1039
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: all my money. Yeah. I think my brother contributed as well.

1040
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: We would go off on tour for a couple of

1041
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: months in Europe, our month because I didn't start working

1042
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: at the law firm until a little later. When you

1043
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: say to go on the road, it was you alone

1044
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: playing acoustic or other band members or what. No, we

1045
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: would have a band. I had a band with Ernie

1046
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: Brooks who was from the Modern Lovers, Jonathan Richmond's ban m.

1047
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: My piano player was Richard Soul who then was in

1048
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: the Patty Smooth Smith group. But I pretty much always

1049
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: had a and and at that time in Europe, if

1050
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: you were really willing to do the travel and it

1051
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: wasn't easy, you know, but festivals paid well. Uh it

1052
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 1: wasn't uh saturated with American acts you know over there

1053
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: like it is now. And Uh, okay, so that record

1054
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: comes out, how many copies can you sell? We could sell.

1055
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how many of that record, but I

1056
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: think between what we sold and between what the licensees sold,

1057
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, it might have sold fifty thousand. That's a

1058
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: lot of records. That's a lot of records hip, but

1059
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: it's a lot of territories. So if you're selling ten

1060
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: thousand in France and then you're selling you know, seven

1061
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: thousand in Italy and seven you know, and I think

1062
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: in America we sold about that. So when it's all

1063
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: said and done, because collecting is a whole another different

1064
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: thing from selling, did you make any money selling the

1065
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: records and then collecting from your distributors? That is a

1066
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: whole different thing, you know. I remember we had one

1067
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: distributor in Texas a word us money and man, I

1068
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: just used to have to call them every day and

1069
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: try and shame them into you know, I need the

1070
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,760
Speaker 1: money to make the next album, and uh yeah, that's it.

1071
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: So that cycle ns. Tell me about what goes on

1072
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: before you start to work for the law from you

1073
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: make another record. We made a couple of records there

1074
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: I made as Steve Katz was working at Mercury. I

1075
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: think by that time he gave me some studio time.

1076
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: We made another album out called Murph the Surf, which

1077
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: did very well in Italy of all places. UH had

1078
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: a song called The Full of Saigon did very well

1079
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: over in Europe. But it was tough, you know, it

1080
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: was tough. Touring was tough. It was long driving and

1081
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: a lot of vans, and I was discouraged. And I

1082
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: think that's what I kind of thought, Well, maybe I

1083
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: should kind of quite well on my head here and

1084
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 1: head to the law firm. Let's go back to the

1085
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: very beginning. Let's start with something awkwad show. When the

1086
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: press came out that was the name of the album.

1087
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: Was the whole story about your relative running the Akway show?

1088
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: Was that your idea? Who were they saying, well, this

1089
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: is an angle, let's work this well. Going back even further,

1090
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: my father, who was Elliott Murphy Sor, I'm a junior UH,

1091
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: and he was the son of an Irish immigrant who

1092
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: was a Blacksmith in Brooklyn. My father he started a

1093
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: show called The Aqua Show on the site of the

1094
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 1: ninety nine World's Fair, although it was in the fifties

1095
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 1: when he had it, and it was like with a

1096
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: certain kind of spectacle doesn't even exist today. It was

1097
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: eight thousand seats outdoor theater. There was a huge Olympic

1098
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: sized pool. There were clown divers jumping off everything. There

1099
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: was a revolving stage, and there were some credible bands.

1100
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: There was Duke Ellington play there for while. There was

1101
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: Cap Halloway who played there. Some iconic comedians like Jackie Mason,

1102
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: you know, performed there. And and my father was the producer.

1103
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: He owned the show. You know. I learned the greatest

1104
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: lesson from him about show business. He said, no matter

1105
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: how good the show is, if it rains, nobody comes.

1106
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: And that's really true. Now, my father, we lost him.

1107
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: He died young. I was sixteen, and by that time

1108
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 1: he had he had gone from the Aqua Show. He

1109
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: had a restaurant called the Sky Club out in Garden City.

1110
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: It was very politically connected. Bobby Kennedy came there, Nelson Rockefeller,

1111
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean, all the the the big names of that

1112
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 1: political era and he had that restaurant and then he

1113
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: had a heart attack at the age of Uh. It

1114
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: just traumatized me and the whole family. You know, it

1115
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: was really a bad time to go. There was not

1116
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: much to fall back on. Uh any thoughts of going

1117
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: on to college or anything. At that point, we're squashed. Luckily,

1118
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: you know that I still held onto the music. I

1119
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: started playing the guitar since twelve, and that really got

1120
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: me through. Well, since we're mentioning this, So you grew

1121
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 1: up on the island or in the city. No. I

1122
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: grew up in Garden City, Long Island, which is right

1123
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: in the middle. It's where Charles Lindbergh took off from

1124
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: to go to Paris, although his reputation has been heard

1125
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 1: amished in recent years. Okay, you go to school, good student,

1126
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: bad student, terrible student, terrible student. You know, when I

1127
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: was twelve, they couldn't understand why I was not doing

1128
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: well at school, and they told my mother he needs

1129
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: something to channel his energies. I guess I was kind

1130
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: of a hyperactive kid, and they suggested I learned a

1131
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: musical instrument. So with my mother, I went to a

1132
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: Quickly's music center and knew Park, and we started playing

1133
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: studying the guitar together. And by when I picked up

1134
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: that guitar, my school work out worse, let me tell you.

1135
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: And I I just fell in love with the guitar

1136
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: and it's an instrument, and I I witnessed all those

1137
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 1: life changing events for musicians of my group. In my generation.

1138
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: I saw Elvis Presley and Ed Sullivan, you know. And

1139
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: my grandfather was from Tupelo, Mississippi, the same town as Elvis,

1140
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: so I really had a connection there. So the Beatles

1141
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: on TV. At my father's restaurant, he sometimes would have

1142
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: college mixers and there'd be the Rondettes singing. I think

1143
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: the Loving Spoonful played there. So yeah, that's I was

1144
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: a terrible student, you know. It wasn't until I went

1145
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: back to school to college in the eighties, you know.

1146
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm luckily I made it out of high school. Actually,

1147
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: And was your brother older or younger? My brother was younger.

1148
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 1: And were you a popular kid outsider? What were you like? Well?

1149
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: I was voted best dressed? Whoa you know, but that

1150
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: was I was maybe the first of my class to

1151
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: start wearing bell bottoms and Tom Jones shirts. If you

1152
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 1: remember what those man I also have an older sister, Michelle.

1153
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: Uh she's the one who gave me In nineteen sixty

1154
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: year sixteen one, she went to see Bob Dylan play

1155
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: at Princeton and the next Christmas she gave me his

1156
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 1: first album as a Christmas present. And I love that album.

1157
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: And my favorite song was Housel Rising Sun. So when

1158
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: a few years later the Animals had a hit with it,

1159
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: I already knew it, uh so, but it was really

1160
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 1: you know, if it wasn't for the guitar, I don't

1161
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: know what would have happened to me. Really, it's really

1162
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 1: kept me afloat. And did you play in bands in

1163
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: high school? Bob? Not only did I play in bands?

1164
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 1: I won the nineteen six the six New York State

1165
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:05,639
Speaker 1: Battle of the Bands in high school? Tell us that story? Okay?

1166
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 1: Well that was I had a band called the Rapscallions,

1167
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: and we used to do There was a studio recording

1168
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: studio in Hempstead which was right next to Garden City,

1169
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: and that's where the Shangri Laws recorded Walking in the Sand.

1170
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 1: There was a producer named Shadow Morton, remember him? Of course?

1171
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: I think the d Fudge too, did Genesee and Society's child,

1172
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 1: great track, great track, and we'd go over there and

1173
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of listen and stuff. Anyway, I had this band

1174
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 1: called the Rep skuy Ands, and we had a very

1175
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: talented and pretty girl who was our lead singer, and

1176
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: we would do songs like that walking in the sand, remember,

1177
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: walking in the same all that stuff, and and we

1178
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: won the Long Island Battle of the Bands in Eisenhower

1179
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: Park out there, and then we went up to west

1180
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: Chester and when the New York State Battle of the Bands,

1181
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: we got Blazers and a hundred dollars savings certificate, and

1182
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: we were supposed to march in the Thanksgiving Day parade.

1183
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 1: But none of the parents of anyone, all the other

1184
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: kids wanted their kids to go on into music. You know,

1185
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: Garden City was a very conservative, upper middle class kind

1186
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: of town, and you know, that was not the route

1187
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,600
Speaker 1: that their parents were looking for him, whereas me, it

1188
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 1: was always the road I wanted to take. So your

1189
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: father dies, how is your family paying the bills? We're not,

1190
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: We're not. He at the restaurant was in a bad

1191
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: state that it went bankrupt. My mother, who was really

1192
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: at I mean she was only thirty nine when he

1193
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: passed away. She had her that generation she had and

1194
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 1: my sister I think when she was nineteen. You know,

1195
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: they started families early. Uh. With my father, she had

1196
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: gone to the White House and danced with Eisenhower. You know,

1197
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: my father was My father was that old style Republicans

1198
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: if you remember them, Nelson Rockefeller Republicans. Rockefeller who was

1199
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: the senator from Connecticut. Uh, began with the douvil Anyway,

1200
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 1: my father was that kind of Republican, you know. I

1201
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,839
Speaker 1: mean I never heard him say a racist or Marcus

1202
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: whole life. He just didn't like the Union's telling him

1203
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: what to do in his restaurant. He didn't like paying

1204
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 1: a lot of taxes. But aside from that, Uh so

1205
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: my mother who had gone from you know, my father

1206
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: used to organize a lot of charity shows and people

1207
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: like Perry Como would saying or Mike Todd was that

1208
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 1: one with Liz Taylor when they were married. And uh,

1209
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: my mother went from that lifestyle to really starting over again,

1210
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: and she ended up working at Tiffany in New York. Okay,

1211
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 1: you win the Battle of the bands? Were you also

1212
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: playing bar Mitzvah's Sweet sixteens and making a living as

1213
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: a musician, making a living, making some money, making some money.

1214
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: I mean, we mostly played at the bar joints that

1215
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: we're on Hempstead Turnpike. There's a couple of colleges that

1216
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: were there. There's Hofstra University, there's a Delphi, the CW Post,

1217
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: so that were there were college mixers we would play at.

1218
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 1: But you know, it was tough, but it was a

1219
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: great education. You do five or success a night. You

1220
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 1: had to just know hundreds of songs. Uh, And that's

1221
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: what basically I did until a and then I took

1222
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:35,520
Speaker 1: this trip which I mentioned before, to Europe in n Okay.

1223
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 1: But how do you become one thing about your songs

1224
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: to this day? Is there very literate? Where did that?

1225
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: What was the generation of that couple of things come

1226
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: into play with that? First of all in the sixties,

1227
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: in the late sixties, It's hard to imagine, but it

1228
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: seemed like all the different cultural elements were coming together.

1229
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: There was cinema and there was music. I mean, you

1230
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 1: look on the cover of Sergeant Sergeant Pepper there, it's

1231
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:09,560
Speaker 1: full of writers, you know, it's that that collage of

1232
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: all those faces. It's Edgar Allan Poe and Oscar Wilde

1233
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: and everybody else. So I was very influenced by those writers.

1234
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: I always was attracted to the writers in the nineteen twenties,

1235
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: especially if Scott Fitzgerald The Great Gatsby took place on

1236
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: Long Island. You know, we used to get stoned and

1237
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 1: drive up past those mansions which still existed on the

1238
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 1: North Shore and Long Island and dream and uh uh.

1239
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: And then there was the beat generation. You know, there

1240
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:43,479
Speaker 1: was Jack Carolak. I mean, if you wanted to be

1241
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 1: in in the right place culturally in the late sixties,

1242
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 1: you had to have an awareness of all that. You know,

1243
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: you had to know who Allen Ginsburg was and Howell

1244
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 1: is his poem and uh And at the same time

1245
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: there were incredible films happening. So I think I came

1246
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,759
Speaker 1: out of that, but I don't know. I'm a reader.

1247
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 1: I still am a reader, you know, I like fiction today.

1248
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: I tend to read more biography than fiction because you

1249
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 1: just want to see how other people got through this life.

1250
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: And I have written a few books. Yeah, I was

1251
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 1: going to get to that, but let's continue the narrative.

1252
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: So you go to Europe, and what is your intention

1253
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 1: that was? When you know, going to Europe you could

1254
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: get a flight very cheap, you could live very cheap.

1255
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: But what was your theoretical agenda or was there nothing

1256
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: like I'm just gonna go and see what happened, or

1257
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: we're going for inspiration. My sister was a pan Am

1258
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: stewardess legendary. I think there's been TV shows made about

1259
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,480
Speaker 1: so because because of that, she got a family discount,

1260
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 1: and I think I got a flight to answer to

1261
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: them for pennies, you know, just for nothing. And uh,

1262
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: I just really wanted to get away from Long Island.

1263
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 1: And I had a friend who had gotten there earlier

1264
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 1: and just said, you've got to come to Europe. Everything's

1265
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: happened there in Amsterdam. And and so I went over

1266
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 1: with him and a couple of other guys and we

1267
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: went to Amsterdam, and we went to Paris, and then

1268
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 1: we went to Rome, which is really where I spent

1269
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: most of my time in and I was He had

1270
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,879
Speaker 1: a guitar and I was playing in front of restaurants

1271
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: and we passed the hat. And his brother, if you

1272
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,799
Speaker 1: follow this, was living with an American actor named Farley Granger.

1273
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: Now Farley Granger was in Strangers on a Train, the

1274
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 1: Alfred Hetchcock movie, and he had become quite a big

1275
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: star in Europe, kind of in the Clint Eastwood Mold,

1276
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: you know before. And Farley Granger said to me, listen,

1277
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: if you want to make some money, you should get

1278
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: yourself out to Chinni Chita, which is a big studio,

1279
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 1: because Felini is making a film and he's he's hiring extras,

1280
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: and you gotta look, you know, maybe he'd hire you.

1281
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: So my brother and I went out to Chinnichita and

1282
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how we talked away in there, but

1283
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: we did. And we went into a room. The door opened,

1284
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: and Federico Folini looked in that, you know, by Benny

1285
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,759
Speaker 1: shut the door, and we got hired to work for Felini.

1286
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: He was filming Roma, his film Roma. And although I

1287
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: was really just an extra, you know, but everybody was

1288
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 1: an extra in that film. And and at one point

1289
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 1: Felini stood right next to me because they did the

1290
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: clapper on my face and he said, young boy, stand here.

1291
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: I was a young boy then. So it was an

1292
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 1: amazing And if you watch Roma today, you can see

1293
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: me in it, you know, I mean it not too long,

1294
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 1: but you can see me in that. So to fast forward, Bob,

1295
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 1: and this is amazing. I was telling this story about

1296
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: working with Felini when I was playing at a gig

1297
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: in a little club in trust Savery in Rome, and

1298
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,879
Speaker 1: after the show someone said, listen, I have Leny's address

1299
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: if you want to write to him. So I wrote

1300
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: to him and I wrote said how that experience was just,

1301
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, life changing, and I've told talked about it

1302
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 1: all the time, and I sent him a c D.

1303
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 1: And when I got back to Paris, I'm fast forwarding

1304
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: now well into the nineties. When I got back to Paris,

1305
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: there was a letter in my mailbox from Federico Fley.

1306
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 1: I still have it. It's on my wall, written in English,

1307
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: many mistakes, words crossed, and he said, thank you so

1308
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: much for your music and kind words. Elliott. He said,

1309
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 1: unfortunately ages weaken my memory and I don't remember exactly

1310
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,799
Speaker 1: what you did in my film, but all the critics

1311
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: tell me it was marvelous and that he wished me

1312
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 1: good luck. And really just a few months after that

1313
01:18:52,360 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: he passed away. How long did you actually work on

1314
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: I think it was like a week. So all this

1315
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 1: time you're writing music and then tell me the evolution

1316
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 1: of coming back and starting in the band world. Yeah,

1317
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm starting to write songs. I'm starting to write a

1318
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 1: white middle class blues. I think that was a song

1319
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 1: I wrote over there, Last of the rock Stars, because

1320
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: when we came, when I came to Europan nine, I

1321
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: think that it was Janis Joplin had died and Jimmy

1322
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: Hendricks had died, and Jim Morrison, and it was like,

1323
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, who was going to be left to play?

1324
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 1: Which is a line of rock and roll is here

1325
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 1: to stay, but who will be left to play? And

1326
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 1: I started writing that and then I came back and I, uh,

1327
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 1: we started to put a band together with my brother

1328
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: and started to play that. It was, as I said,

1329
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: a business model which doesn't exist anymore. You could play

1330
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: all over New York. There was Max's Kansas City, there

1331
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: was the mercer Artis and It's Kenny's Cast the Ways,

1332
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 1: and they were all kind of bands, especially the New

1333
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: York Dolls that were Patti Smith. And it was before CBGBs.

1334
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 1: I was never a CBGBs guy. Uh, that was a

1335
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: different thing. And we started to play, put the band together.

1336
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: I kept writing until I had, you know, ten of

1337
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 1: twelve songs, and then we knocked on Polydorus door. And

1338
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 1: here I am a little point of information. How did

1339
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: you record those songs for the demo? And where and

1340
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,479
Speaker 1: who paid for it? I think my mother. I don't

1341
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 1: remember exactly, but I know there was some point with

1342
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: my father's life insurance. Maybe we got a couple of

1343
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: thousand dollars each each kid or something. And when I think,

1344
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 1: with that money, me and my brother bought some musical

1345
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:54,600
Speaker 1: equipment and we went to a demo studio in Port Washington,

1346
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: Long Island, and that's where we recorded those songs the demo.

1347
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,400
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned and a number of artists from Mooie

1348
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 1: to David, Joe Hansen to Springsteen. And from previous conversation,

1349
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,040
Speaker 1: I know that when Springsteen came to Paris he invited

1350
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,320
Speaker 1: you up on stage. To what degree do you still

1351
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 1: have contact with anybody from that seventies scene and how

1352
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 1: much and what are they up to. I saw Bruce yesterday,

1353
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: so I have pretty close contact with him. We had

1354
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:27,880
Speaker 1: my wife and I had lunch at dinner with him

1355
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 1: out of his house in New Jersey. And so Bruce says, uh,

1356
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 1: And he is just the most generous. I mean, as

1357
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,719
Speaker 1: you mentioned, he's brought me up on stage many times,

1358
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: and the last time he was playing the stad de France,

1359
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:47,640
Speaker 1: which is an eighty thousand seat uh you know, stadium

1360
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,080
Speaker 1: in Paris, and he he brought me and my son

1361
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 1: gaspar up on stage with him. We were backstage and

1362
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: Bruce said, you want to come up and play? I said, yeah,

1363
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: what do you want me to play? Said? How about

1364
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,840
Speaker 1: Born to Run? And I said, whoa. I said that

1365
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: is a difficult song and it is. It's like a

1366
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: symphony that song. And my son was there and he

1367
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:12,280
Speaker 1: said I know it, Dad, and Bruce said you know it?

1368
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 1: He said yeah. He said, okay, then you come up

1369
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,679
Speaker 1: to So there we were in front of eighty thousand people,

1370
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,679
Speaker 1: my son, gas Bar and Bruce Springsteen the Street Band,

1371
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: and what can I say? It was magic? It was

1372
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: who else from that era? A little bit? David Johansson

1373
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:34,680
Speaker 1: stay in touch with him a little bit. Uh. I'm

1374
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 1: trying to think many of them are. I was. Sometimes

1375
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: I tell my son about the people I met back

1376
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:43,920
Speaker 1: then and he can't believe it. You know, It's like

1377
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: I I met Shakespeare. My second album, I asked David

1378
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 1: Bowie to produce it. He was on our c A

1379
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: as well, and he invited me down to Electric Ladies

1380
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 1: studios and he couldn't produce it because he was going

1381
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: out on her. But when I told my son I've

1382
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 1: met I mean, but who from the seventies? Wow, there's

1383
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: been a lot of a lot of them are not

1384
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 1: still with us? Okay, well, let's change the question. Because

1385
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: you've met all these people, you know, as Letterman used

1386
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 1: to call brush with greatness. Tell me you know you

1387
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 1: have the experience with Bowie, any other experiences where they

1388
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:23,560
Speaker 1: were very memorable, either the person delivered or if you

1389
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: want to the person disappointed you. I'm trying to think.

1390
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: I think I've I've been very, very fortunate in that

1391
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: most of the people I met uh icons, rock icons.

1392
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,560
Speaker 1: You know, I had enough of an end that I

1393
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: wasn't bothering them. Let's say, I mean I met Mick

1394
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:48,559
Speaker 1: Jagger a couple of times, and you know he's always

1395
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 1: charming and smart and that. Who have I had a

1396
01:23:53,920 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 1: bad experience? I don't, I don't know. I can't lea say. Okay,

1397
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 1: somewhere along this line, you become a writer, You write

1398
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:07,800
Speaker 1: record reviews, the other stuff. What was the inspiration? How

1399
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: did that happen? After I was dropped by Columbia seventy

1400
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 1: eight or so. So I was right seventy nine or something.

1401
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: I was walking down fifty seventh Street and I ran

1402
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: into Yon Winner from Rolling Stone. I had known John

1403
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:27,759
Speaker 1: because we had done a couple of TV shows together

1404
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:30,679
Speaker 1: at some point because Rolling Rolling Stone and me kind

1405
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 1: of started at the same time. And he asked me

1406
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,680
Speaker 1: what I was up to, and I told him I

1407
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:38,680
Speaker 1: was writing some short stories and he said he'd like

1408
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:42,640
Speaker 1: to read them. So, uh, he liked it and he

1409
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:45,639
Speaker 1: said you should expand this and were published in Rolling Stone.

1410
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: So that was really my first published work. It was

1411
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 1: a short story in Rolling Stone that was published in

1412
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: called Cold and Electric, and Jan said, you know, you

1413
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 1: should expand this story into a novel because there's never

1414
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 1: really been a novel written. It was a story of

1415
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 1: a rock star who would climb the rock mountain and

1416
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,760
Speaker 1: falling off the other side. You know. It was not autobiographical,

1417
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: but it certainly about a world I knew. So he

1418
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 1: encouraged me to write that as a novel, which I did.

1419
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:18,479
Speaker 1: Then Rolling Stone tried to find a co publisher, and

1420
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: at this time there were no books about rock and roll.

1421
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: I mean, there were no biographies. There was nothing, and

1422
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 1: they kept getting back the same feedback from from publishers,

1423
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: which was, you know, the people who like this music,

1424
01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: they don't read books. That was really, you know, the

1425
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: common wisdom. That's changed now, thank god. But I did

1426
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:44,639
Speaker 1: turn it into a novel and I found a publisher

1427
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 1: in France. It was published in French, it was published

1428
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:52,679
Speaker 1: in UH, in Spanish and in German. So since that time,

1429
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,919
Speaker 1: I've written I think five novels, a couple of collections

1430
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,920
Speaker 1: of short stories, and then last year I wrote my memoir,

1431
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 1: Just a Story from America. Okay, let's get to today.

1432
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 1: How far in advance do you plan? I mean, are

1433
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: you booked for four or is it six months in advance?

1434
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,840
Speaker 1: To what degree is your life and career planned out

1435
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 1: in advance? Well, there's pre COVID and post before covid um,

1436
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 1: I would be planned out pretty much a year in advance.

1437
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 1: I say. There's a club in Paris I play called

1438
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: the New Morning, which is very similar to like what

1439
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: the bottom Line was in New York or the Roxy

1440
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 1: in l A. I played there two nights every March,

1441
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 1: which is my birthday. For twenty five years, uh I

1442
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:51,879
Speaker 1: did a tour of Spain. Every January ten to fifteen

1443
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 1: shows for twenty five years as well. And there are

1444
01:26:55,720 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 1: other places that I went back to regularly. Now we're

1445
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: just picking up the pieces again and trying to figure out,

1446
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, where to go. I think my my agent

1447
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: in Spain went out of business because of COVID. There

1448
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 1: was not much France. They really supported the culture and

1449
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:16,599
Speaker 1: help keep companies going on a bigger Looking at that bigger, Bob,

1450
01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, like most of us, we

1451
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: go through life. We make it's chaos. We make the

1452
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 1: best decision we can based upon the information we have.

1453
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: But when I was writing my memoir and I got

1454
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 1: through with it, it seemed like this had all been

1455
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 1: a perfectly perfectly planned out from A to B, and

1456
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:39,320
Speaker 1: this is where I end up. Finally, after nearly a

1457
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 1: fifty year career talking to Bob left, it's okay, let's

1458
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: talk pre COVID, because everything you know, as you say,

1459
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 1: has been changed. How many gigs a year do you

1460
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 1: want to do? How many did you do, and how

1461
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 1: many you want to I used to do close to

1462
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: a hundred hundred gigs a year, and now maybe three

1463
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: or four years ago I cut down a little, maybe

1464
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 1: sixty shows here, so that that's what I feel comfortable with,

1465
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 1: you know, and you work both with him without a band.

1466
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 1: How do you decide that? Well, nowadays I work always

1467
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: with my guitarists. Olivier to Rome was a French guitarist

1468
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: and we've been together for twenty six years. I also

1469
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 1: worked with an Australian violinist named Melissa Cox. Uh. They

1470
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 1: both played on my last couple of albums, and sometimes

1471
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: with a drummer and sometimes if it's a festival and

1472
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 1: we expand. But now the basic format is a trio.

1473
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 1: How and when do you decide to make an album?

1474
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 1: That's interesting because Bruce and I were talking about that

1475
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 1: because some of my generation they just stopped making albums.

1476
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: Most Billy Joel has stopped making albums, you know, for decades, decades. Uh,

1477
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 1: Bruce keeps making albums, and I keep making albums because

1478
01:28:53,760 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: that was really the art form that we came into

1479
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:00,560
Speaker 1: this with an album, you know, and it's hard to

1480
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: remember now, but there was really a point in music

1481
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:06,040
Speaker 1: history where an album became an art form, you know,

1482
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:08,560
Speaker 1: before that was all singles and everything else, as you know,

1483
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 1: and so that for me, the I mean the road

1484
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 1: has always been. You write the songs, then you want

1485
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: to record the songs. Then you want to make an

1486
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 1: album that in some way those group of songs fits together.

1487
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Then you want to take those songs on the road

1488
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: and play them for people, and that usually sparks new songs,

1489
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 1: and then it just begins over and over again. Well

1490
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:34,679
Speaker 1: do you sit down and say I need to write

1491
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: songs or you just inspired in the shower? How do

1492
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,799
Speaker 1: the songs get written? I have to tell you hotel

1493
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:44,760
Speaker 1: rooms are very good for writing songs. I think I've

1494
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 1: written some of my best material in hotel rooms on

1495
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 1: the road. When you're really you know, you're so connected

1496
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:53,799
Speaker 1: to the music through sound checks and through the shows

1497
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 1: I write. I used to write the words of music

1498
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 1: together they seem to come together very quickly. But now

1499
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 1: I often will write the words and then the music

1500
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 1: will come. Okay, you're running your business yourself. Let's just

1501
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 1: talk pre COVID because everything has been screwed up. Do

1502
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,759
Speaker 1: you need to go on the road to earn a living?

1503
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: Is it lucrative or you're just keeping your head above water?

1504
01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:20,640
Speaker 1: What are the numbers looking? Well, I've been fortunate in

1505
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 1: that for an artist, and my dimension, France and Europe

1506
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: is a very good place to live. Number One, you

1507
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about healthcare. You have healthcare. Everybody

1508
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: I know in New York is paying a thousand dollars

1509
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:36,800
Speaker 1: a month or something for healthcare. You have healthcare there.

1510
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 1: I recently had a cataract operation. I paid zero for that.

1511
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: You know, all kinds of things. So you have that,

1512
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 1: you have benefits. I get a pension now because I

1513
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:53,160
Speaker 1: am officially retired, you know, from the French government, and

1514
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 1: also some from from social security here. So I think

1515
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 1: I've done better than keep my head above water. I

1516
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 1: have a nice apartment in Paris that I own. Uh.

1517
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:07,600
Speaker 1: You know, managed to put my son through college. That

1518
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: was really my perhaps my greatest achievement. Uh. I was

1519
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 1: talking about that with Bruce yesterday, and he's in a

1520
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: whole other world, but I'm talking about my career. And

1521
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,719
Speaker 1: he said to me, You've managed to make a living

1522
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 1: music and that's incredible. And I gotta agree with them,

1523
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta agree with or is my pal

1524
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 1: Billy Joel why my note? He inducted me into the

1525
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 1: Long Island Music Hall of Fame a couple of years ago.

1526
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 1: He once said to me, He said, you know, we

1527
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:43,360
Speaker 1: picked a good job. Okay, how long do you plan

1528
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,520
Speaker 1: to do this? Do you drop or you see sunset?

1529
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 1: Nobody quits? I think nobody quits. Who can doing that?

1530
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there are physical things you have to

1531
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:59,840
Speaker 1: deal with. I have pretty bad tonight. It's in my ears,

1532
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 1: ears ringing, which is just almost every musician I know

1533
01:32:05,439 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 1: my age gets hearing problems of some sort or another. Uh.

1534
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: I try to stay in good shape. You've got to

1535
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:13,599
Speaker 1: be in good shape if you want to go out

1536
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:20,280
Speaker 1: there on the road. Ah. I remember just a few

1537
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 1: years ago, my brother was working with Blondie and I

1538
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 1: went up to see him in Brussels and I went

1539
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: down to work out in the gym in the hotel

1540
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,599
Speaker 1: in the morning, and there were three or three members

1541
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 1: of and they said to me, you know, twenty years

1542
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 1: ago we'd all still be up in the room getting loaded,

1543
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,200
Speaker 1: and now we're down at the gym. So you know,

1544
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:48,760
Speaker 1: nobody quits. I don't plan on quitting, you know. And

1545
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 1: just to be clear, you are or not a fringe citizen.

1546
01:32:52,520 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 1: I am you are, I am both. So if we

1547
01:32:55,040 --> 01:33:00,120
Speaker 1: look back at this story, certainly other people who were

1548
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 1: in the scene in the seventies with you had higher

1549
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 1: profiles in you know, I don't want to define success,

1550
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:12,599
Speaker 1: but their reach was further. They might have made more

1551
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: money that might have been through it. How do you

1552
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 1: feel how they made it to such elevated heights and

1553
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:20,880
Speaker 1: you didn't make it to those elevated heights. Tough question

1554
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 1: sometimes can be a painful question. Uh. When I listened

1555
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:28,759
Speaker 1: back to the music I created in those years, sometimes

1556
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why it didn't reach a wider public.

1557
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 1: I think every artist wants to reach as a wider

1558
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: public as possible. Ah. Jumping from label to label, it's

1559
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:46,680
Speaker 1: not the best career move. Not having continuous management as

1560
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: I as I have never had, it's not the best

1561
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:57,679
Speaker 1: career move either. H. But as you know, in this business,

1562
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 1: we tend to look up. We tend to look at

1563
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 1: all those who are doing better than us, but everyone's well,

1564
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:05,720
Speaker 1: I gotta look down, and I got to think of

1565
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 1: all those really great musicians I know who had to stop,

1566
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 1: who can't make a living, can't make music, have to

1567
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: do another job or something like that. So in that way,

1568
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 1: I'm probably in that same as Bruce Springsteen or Billy Joel.

1569
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:28,200
Speaker 1: You know someone who's been able to make a living

1570
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: from my music from for nearly fifty years, and uh,

1571
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:35,680
Speaker 1: I have to be grateful. Okay, we've been talking with

1572
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:38,519
Speaker 1: Elliott Murphy. I got a lot more questions, but I'm

1573
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 1: that very insightful note. I think we're gonna call it

1574
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 1: to a close for today. Elliott, thanks so much for

1575
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: taking the time and telling you. Scot my pleasure. Until

1576
01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:50,599
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex