WEBVTT - Wagner vs. Wagner 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.480 Welcome to The Piked and Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:07.800 and Katie Studios. I gotta tell you from kind of 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.360 a visceral standpoint, when I heard the news that this 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.680 kid had rolled over on this case, one thing that 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:21.200 kind of came to mind from me is, you know, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:25.840 I kind of envisioned his mother in almost a mob 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:29.880 Barker kind of way, that she's kind of the puppet 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:36.680 master that's controlling everything. He's sitting there all along, and 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.120 suddenly he has this lucid moment where he's out from 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:46.000 under that though, and he realizes, I'm going to get 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:53.320 the needle for all of this. This is The Piked 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.600 and Massacre. Returned to Pike County Season two, Episode three, 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.800 Wagner Versus Wagner m Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.600 Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. On April 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.800 twenty second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.800 eight aggravated murder charges in the Rodent family massacre. As 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.160 part of his plea deal, he implicated his mother, Angela Wagner, 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.480 father Billy Wagner, and brother George Wagner as co conspirators 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.679 in the killings. He's also agreeing to testify against his 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.200 parents and brother, who are also charged in these murders. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.000 Here's reporter Anjeanette Levy. I don't believe anybody knew he 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.400 was going to do this, So it's it's a pretty 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.640 stunning development to see Jake Wagner, the youngest of the 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.520 entire family, who would you would think would be, you know, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.440 maybe the most pliable in some respects because he is 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.360 the youngest. But to see him just break away from 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:54.560 his family, I don't know, it's it's pretty interesting. The 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.040 significance of Jake Wagner folding on his family cannot be overstated. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.720 But what does it mean moving forward? Criminal defense attorney 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.200 Mike Allen told Stephanie that it could signal an impending 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.520 legal chess match. In terms of Jake Wagner's admission of guilt. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.359 I'm just curious about what that means altogether. He's confessed 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.440 to killing five of the eight Rodents. Personally, is he 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.480 trying to save himself or trying to save his family? 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.000 You know, obviously, you know, if he did five out 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.560 of eight, you still have three left, and you know 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.799 it'll come out who who actually did the killing on 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:32.560 those other three, but it was probably a strategic move 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.040 on the prosecutor's part not to let that out yet. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.600 And you know Proscue is not going to show his cards, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.920 or in this case, she Angie when she's got three 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.040 other defendants to try, so they're still going to hold 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.360 it close to the vest I think. Stephanie asked reporter 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.960 James Pilcher if there were still moves left for Jake 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.600 to play. Is it possible that he'll say that Jacob 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.000 could say I was in a very controlling environment. My mother, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.760 Angela Wagner, controlled us, My father was a bully and 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.639 said I had to do these things, and we were 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.240 coerced into it. Is there any value in that even? 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.000 I mean, that's entirely possible, and some of the reporting 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.200 that's what we've heard Lee Coal. The other thing I 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.200 will say is that maybe they're going after bigger game 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:20.320 than Jake, and they figured we'll cut this deal. Now 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.720 he'll give us what we want and then we can 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.639 go get the mom and the dad. But clearly they 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.240 were going after the people who plotted it. This was 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:32.120 not Jake's idea, right or at least not according to 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.160 the prosecutors. This was a family coming together. That's what 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.280 the prosecutors are after, is that, Okay, we get Jake 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.040 to help us, we get Jake to plead out. It 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.000 shows that this really did happen. Now we can go 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.160 after the people who actually planned it. On April twenty eighth, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.320 just six days after Jake Wagner's hearing, his accused brother, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.440 George Wagner, walked into the Pike County Courthouse. The first 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.120 court hearing since last week's surprise plea deal in the 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.800 Pike County murder trials took place today. This hearing for 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.360 George Wagner was supposed to center on a few defense 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.800 emotions involving discovery evidence. Anette Levy was on the scene 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.960 that day. She spoke to producer Chris Graves. He kind 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.200 of described the mood and what was going on. The 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.000 mood was a lot lighter than it had been in 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.120 the past. The Roden family is a little bit that 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.000 I saw of them. They just seemed happy for the 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:19.600 first time in a long time. And I think I 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:23.040 saw Hannah Gilly's mother and she actually seemed happy. And 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.880 they can start to finally look fitthered, So it was 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.880 just a much lighter mood. But you know George the Fourth, 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.120 obviously it wasn't a lighter mood for him. He looked 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.480 very stressed. He looked very thin. He doesn't look good. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.520 You can see it on his face. In the aftermath 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.039 of Jake Wagner's shocking confession, many wondered how accused older 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.200 brother George Wagner's hearing would play out. We spoke at 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.919 length about George in the last two episodes. It was 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.960 at his wedding that the last known picture of the 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.520 Roden and Wagner families was taken. Also, George and his 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.400 ex wife dealt with eerily similar custody issues that would 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.960 foreshadow what would happen between victim Hannah Roden and Jake Wagner. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:05.000 His lawyer, Rick Nash, has been very assertive and maintained 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.520 that George the Fourth there was no case against him, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.640 that there was no evidence against him. But now he's 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.440 kind of having to swallow his pride a little bit, 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.560 I think and realize that there may be some really 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.600 good evidence tying his client to this and this emotion. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.880 Hearing was for like all these boilerplate death penalty motions. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:28.800 Death penalty is off the table now. People following the 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.880 case wondered would George Wagner strike a plea deal as well. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.680 My opinion of George the fourth is that he's kind 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.840 of is the weakest link in this family because he's 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.200 got the most to lose. He has a son who 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:46.800 he loves dearly, and he wants to be with his son. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.640 And so I was wondering, what's George going to do? 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.000 Instead of a guilty plead, the court heard something far 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.680 less dramatic. It took us in five minutes for George 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:58.839 wage to the fourth to ask for more time to 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:06.760 evaluate the situation. No, Judge, I don't think so. We 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.839 I think everybody's agreed that, given recent events, that everybody 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.760 needs to step back and reassess. The hearing concluded with 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.840 an agreement to reschedule the motion for June twenty first, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.880 twenty one. Though there were no bombshell developments, it's clear 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.719 that the next few weeks will be pivotal. George Wagner 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.640 and his accused parents, Angela and Billy Wagner must now 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.520 decide how they will proceed. Do you think that it's 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.719 possible that now that Jake took the plea deal and 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.640 admitted to the murders that we may see Billy Angela 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.360 and or George doing this same thing. I think it's 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.880 possible that the others could plead out. But at the 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:46.160 same time, what's the point They have nothing to lose 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.880 by going to trial, because they either to plead out 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.839 get life in prison, or they roll the dice and 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.640 go to trial and maybe they can hang a jury. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.120 As Mike Allen points out, there's no one case that 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:03.160 assures an Is there any version of this where one 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.960 of them is found guilty and the other are found innocent. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.720 It's possible, Yeah, I mean, it just it all depends 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:14.320 on what the individual juries want to do. Yeah, I mean, 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:18.160 that's very possible, And it's happened on trials that where 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.480 they're two defendants that have been severed, where one has 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.040 found guilty and the other one is not. You know, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.600 different juries are different and it'll be a different jury 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.560 for every one of these trials, and lawyers will tell you, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:36.840 especially criminal lawyers, you never know what is going to 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.520 happen with the jury. And I've been at this for 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:45.600 forty years and juries are becoming even more unpredictable. I 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.720 don't know why, but they are. But in answer to 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.840 your question, yeah, that's a possibility. Last episode, we heard 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.160 Bureau of Criminal Investigation agent Ryan Scheiderer testify about the 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.360 Wagner's cult like family dynamic. They're very They lived together, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.760 They've always lived together. Their finances are intermingled, the homeschool together, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.880 they raise their kids together. Everything is done together. As 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.679 well as we have an informat who says that every 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:16.400 decision within that family is made as a family decision. 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.800 Without any of the other Wagners coming forward with plea deals, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.720 there are still a lot of questions that need to 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.960 be answered about the family that is alleged to have 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.640 carried out Ohio's most notorious crime. It's worth noting that 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.880 while Jake Wagner pleaded guilty, Angela Billy and George Wagner 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.239 have pleaded not guilty. The state is kind of maintained 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.640 that each person in this conspiracy had their own role, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.959 They had their own kind of part to play, And 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.400 you know, it's going to be interesting to see how 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.440 strong the evidence is to support their assertion that each 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.720 person had a role in this conspiracy. At this point, 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.400 one thing is clear, Jake Wagner holds the fate of 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.880 his family in his hands, and the united front the 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.520 Wagner family has built is beginning to erode. How it 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.520 will all unfold is anyone's guess. Remember, we don't know 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.960 exactly what Jake said and how he said it. We 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.440 just know that he confessed and led them to evidence. 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.440 So there's still a lot we don't know based on 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.439 what the prosecution outlined in court. So let's take a 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.400 look at the evidence we know about based on what 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.600 we've heard through preliminary hearings over the past three years. 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.880 One of the most informative was a hearing for accused 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.720 brother George Wagner that took place on August thirty first, 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.040 twenty twenty. That day, George's attorneys requested that he be 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.960 allowed to post bail, arguing that there was no evidence 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.800 to tie him to the case, and Neette Levy was 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.720 at the Pike County courthouse that day. It was actually 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.240 a fool's errand because in the state of Ohio, someone 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.400 charged with aggravated murder in which the deaf count Vias thought, 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.960 can be held without bail automatically. There's really no question 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.880 about it. So they were kind of wanting to, I 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.160 think get some more information about the evidence in the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.320 case and the BCI agent on the case. The lead agent, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.040 Ryan Scheiterer, took the stand and answered a series of 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.480 questions about the evidence in the case that they have 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:13.000 against George. Swear or firm testimony were about gears true 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:20.840 the whole I see that special Agent Ryan Scheiderer of 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.880 the Bureau of Criminal Investigation taking his oath in court. 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.200 During the hearing, George Wagner's attorney tried to distance his 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.920 client from the crime and his accused family. His attorney 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.480 had set something to the effect of the evidence of 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:35.679 you know, if it tied anybody to this, it was 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.160 Jake and Angela, not George. What text or digital communications 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.960 did you find too or from him? If you think 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:47.800 is relevant specifically about text messages with George, I don't 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.359 remember any. Did you collect a cell phone from George? 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.920 I don't believe we ever collected George celler What connection 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.959 does George had to do with that laptime? The device 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.040 was registered to Jake, specifically Angela, who seemed to be 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:06.400 the primary user of that laptop, but there was some 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.680 evidence that implicated George Wagner along with his brother Jake 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.640 and the crimes. One of the most striking parts of 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.240 Agent Scheider's testimony had to do with the type of 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.959 guns used in the homicides. We know the three calibers 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.760 of firearms that were used to convent these murders, and 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.720 they were a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.679 caliber and a thirty caliber. Scheiderer went on to make 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.800 a direct correlation between the twenty two caliber shell casings 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.400 found at victims Dana Rodin and Frankie Roden's homes and 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.359 the property owned by the Wagner family. Here's Agent Scheiterer 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.439 being questioned by Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa. We recovered twenty two 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.360 caliber shell casings and where we recovered those which at 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.920 two sixty Peterson Road, which was a property that was 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:56.440 owned by George Wager and his brother Jake. And were 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.400 those shell casings submitted to the lab or comparison to 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.599 the shell casings that had been recovered from both Frankie's 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:11.320 and Dana's residences. Yes, and what was the opinion of 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.800 the The weapon that fired the shell casings at two 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.920 sixty Pierson Road also fired the shell casings at Anna's 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.360 and Dana's residence as well as Frankie and Anna Gillis residence. 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.680 So the same firearm had been suspired on the same properties. Okay, 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.160 So he eat exact same gun, not just the same 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:39.320 type of gun, the same firearms, okay. Forensic expert Joseph 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.480 Morgan explained the intricate science involved in tying a shell 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.319 casing back to a specific gun. The inside of a 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.000 handgun like this has got rifling. That means it's got lands, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.080 which are kind of flat plateau looking formations. And also 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.960 because these are soft metal brass casings that are being 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.319 ejected once the round is fired, you have what are 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.400 referred to as extraction marks. This spent case in it 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.479 leaves these little marks that are unique to the interior 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.880 housing of this particular weapon. And even you can have 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.480 a weapon that rolls off the line with fifty other 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.880 weapons that are the same same model, but they're all 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.600 going to be unique at a microscopic level, and that's 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.600 how they tied back the projectile to a specific weapon. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.640 Another suspicious item was found during a different search of 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.120 the same Wagner property. The police went back and they 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.240 found what the ATF says was likely used as a 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:47.960 homemade silencer for a gun. Agent Scheiderer elaborated recovered a 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:53.600 maglite flashlight turned into the suppressor. Yeah adapter at one 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.960 end that as a solid adapter, they closed in and 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.760 they at the other end you add a thread adapter 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:04.760 and it's designed to catch cleaning solvent when you're cleaning 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.120 your firearm, but it can easily be converted into a suppressor. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.520 They determined that it was a suppressor as defined by 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.080 federal statue, been fired at least one time because they 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.880 could see a bull of striking inside the suppressor. Thing. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.840 That was pretty interesting because that wasn't found. That was 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.160 found in I think October of twenty eighteen, right before 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.400 the indictments came out, and that property, the Peterson Road home, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.960 had been searched in May of twenty seventeen. I mean, 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.840 when I hear that, it sounds like someone told them 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.080 about it. We know, but Jake led them to the guns, 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.200 the murder weapons, the car used purchased and news and 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:49.360 so who knows. Maybe. During cross examination by George Wagner's attorney, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.280 Agent Scheiderer highlighted some of the other evidence the state 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.840 has on George, including wire tap surveillance. Could you approximate 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:03.080 to the nearest hundred many hours you have regarding this 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:10.920 recording of George Wagner hours? Not really, but I would 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:16.920 say over one hundred days, over agred days, Okay, And 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.360 so I want you to focus on those hundred days, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.440 and maybe your answer is the same, but I'm going 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.400 to ask it a different way. Could you tell us 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.120 over that one hundred days of recording George Wagner what 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.560 statement he made that you recorded that ties him into 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.360 this case. I mean, he never confessed, if that's what 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:41.000 you're getting at, but he made incriminating statements. At a 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.080 different hearing, George Wagner appeared in court for an unusual 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:48.480 request to be put in solitary confinement. Here's Jeff speaking 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.960 with Mike Allen. What about George Wagner asking for solitary confinement? 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.640 What do you make of that? His stated reason was 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.360 that he wanted to be able to study the Bible 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:02.480 in peace. That's a little unusual when inmates ask for 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.080 solitary A lot of times, although they may not say it, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.880 they're asking for that because they've been threatened, and you know, 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.720 they want to make sure that they're as safe as 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.040 they can be in jail. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.440 to know what's going through his head. But I mean, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.080 either he's immersing himself in the Holy Bible or somebody 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.320 saying that they're going to do something to him. Either way, 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.240 his mental state is probably not good. But when I 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.600 read that, I kind of wondered, is that the real reason? 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:34.720 I mean, you know, you just have to wonder what 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.680 the motivation is. Since his arrest in twenty eighteen, accused 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.520 father Billy Wagner has also staunchly maintained his innocence. Billy 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.720 Wagner's attorney has been very adamant that there's no evidence. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.920 There's no case against Billy Wagner, but there's nothing. They have, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.600 nothing that ties him to this. Last year, Billy Wagner 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.040 made an audacious move to separate himself from the other 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.040 members of his family and move his trial word. He 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.240 took it upon himself to file a motion in court. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.680 It had to do with his right to what's referred 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.320 to as a speedy trial, an Ohio procedural rule stipulating 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.600 that anyone charged with a felony must be brought to 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.479 trial within two hundred and seventy days of their arrest. 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.000 While accused father Billy Wagner, had initially waived his right 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.680 to a speedy trial, it seems he suddenly had a 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.239 change of heart. The court received a handwritten motion from 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.720 Billy Wagner asking that his right to a speedy trial 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.080 be invoked and that he withdraw his waiver of this 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.800 speedy trial right. He was pretty frustrated. I guess that 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.280 he's sitting in jail. He says he's innocent and was 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.639 frustrated and submitted this or to the court. But it 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.159 was actually some fairly good jailhouse lawyering. I'm assuming he 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.800 had somebody in the jail can write this for him 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.960 and his attorneys. They became aware of it and talked 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.840 with him and withdrew it immediately. Mike Allen gave us 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.640 his professional opinion on Billy's homespun legal strategy. I don't 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.679 care how small your jail is, you're going to have 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.760 jail house lawyers and criminal defense attorneys instruct their clients. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.480 Do not listen to the jail house lawyers. They don't 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.600 know what they're talking about. If they did, they wouldn't 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.800 be where they are. So that's every criminal defense lawyer's 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:24.040 worst nightmare is when your client files a motion without 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:28.840 consulting the attorney. It's a very stupid thing to do. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.800 So Billy Wagner's lawyer, I'm sure, probably had some strong 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.920 words for him for doing that. Well, Billy and George 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.000 Wagner have been busy filing legal motions to help their cases. 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.600 The same camp be said about accused mother Angela Wagner. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.919 Bob Craypence is what you would call, you know, the 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.040 first chair on this case for her defense team, and 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:56.040 he's been very it's been very quiet on that front. However, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.680 Angela Wagner has appeared in court for other reasons. At 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.200 a r in twenty nineteen, Judge Randy Deering revoked Angelo 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.280 Wagner's mail and phone privileges after she was caught trying 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:09.720 to discuss case strategy with her family. Here's her lawyer 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.840 speaking in court that day, which stipulated that Vita she 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.440 was in fact instructed she was having no contact with 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.280 the codefendants in this case. This team half presented as 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.960 was some information indicative of a violation of that stipulated 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.600 that she did in fact hilate that court or some 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:32.600 of Angelo Wagner's alleged orchestration was presented by Agent Scheiterer 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.160 at George's bail hearing last year. He testified about shoe 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.399 prints that were found at a few of the crime scenes. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:44.600 This evidence points directly to Angelo Wagner's role in the conspiracy. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:52.639 Exhibits eight and nine. These are the shoe impression prints 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.680 that were lifted from Chris Rogan Senior's residence, and those 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.280 are shoe impressons that are later determined to be from 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.920 a specific shoe that is determined to be sold by Walmart. Correct? 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:10.760 And then did you ultimately execute a search warrant up 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.880 on State out for you? One? Yes? And you described 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.000 to us what you were searching there there were two 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:22.560 pickup trucks and three trailers that were parked at that 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.720 location that belonged to the Wagoner family. Did you find 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.600 a receipt? Yes, we did. There was a Walmart receipt 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:38.960 resin Weird. The receipt was and Jake Wagner's okay, and 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.639 specifically in a tub marked important things or something correct, Okay, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.920 what was the significance of that receipt? So this Walmart 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:51.320 receipt is for the Waverley Ohio walmart on Emma Avenue. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.840 It is dated April seventh, twenty sixteen, time stamp at 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.359 sixteen fifty eight hours. On there there are the purchase 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:03.119 of two Athletic brand tennis shoes, which is consistent with 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.080 the shoes that we were looking for. And you indicated 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.360 that Angela told made a statement to your fellow agents 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:16.480 that she had purchased those shoes specifically for Jacob George. Correct. 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:22.000 And you were asked if you've recovered those shoes, if 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:27.560 you found those shoes, yes, and you did not correct. Correct, 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.160 And isn't it true that Angela said that she had 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.480 thrown those shoes away the very same day that she 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.560 bought them. Yes, because the boys didn't like the shoes. Correct, 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.600 But Jacob George told they denied knowledge of the shoes 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:51.760 ever seen. Correct. We're going to take a quick break here. 0:21:52.080 --> 0:22:05.399 We'll be back in a moment. Altogether, it appears the 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.840 prosecution has amassed an overwhelming amount of evidence against the 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:12.800 Wagner family. Here is Agent Scheider telling George Wagner's attorney 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.680 just how much audio evidence the state has at their disposal. 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.840 What reportings do you have that you feel are relevant 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:24.080 for this or some evidence. Here. In these case, we 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:29.760 have you know, approximately eight thousand recordings primarily of the 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.639 Wagner individuals, the family. You know, we also have interviews where, 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.879 you know, I feel there was incriminating statements made within 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:42.920 the interviews. They've got wire taps in this case. They 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.280 have video surveillance evidence, they have, you know, countless interviews 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.520 with people. The prosecution has said, you know, this is 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:55.439 a voluminous file. They've said it takes up terabytes and terabytes. 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.440 A terabyte is a huge amount of space on a computer. 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.399 So like it kind of gives you an idea of 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.760 what they've gathered. The sheer volume of evidence shocked even 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.520 seasoned attorney Mike Allen. Here he is talking to Jeff 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:12.920 you as an expert. Is that a high amount? Is 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:17.360 that a normal amount of evidence? No, that's just astronomical. 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.280 I would not have expected it to be that high. 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:25.160 It's not normal at all. According to investigative reporter Jodi Barr, 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.160 George and the other accused Wagners could have implicated each 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.480 other without even knowing. What we don't know is whether 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:36.880 the Waggoners gave statements and what statements they made. Two 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.720 investigators before during or after the charge. We don't know 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:44.520 what the contents of any intercepted phone calls as they've 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.640 been in jail might be. Who knows what the state 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:51.360 of Ohio has as far as whether you know, statements 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:55.000 made by one Wagner could almost assure a conviction of another. 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.280 So how could we see the legal battles play out 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:00.720 in the courtroom if the Wagner's aside to go to trial. 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.600 As it stands, Billy Angela and George Wagner have all 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.560 been charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. If convicted, they, 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:11.280 like Jake, will spend the rest of their lives in prison. 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:15.879 Never have I seen anything even remotely close to this case. 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.680 I've been involved in some bad ones, but this one 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.640 is by far the worst. One of the many things 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.879 that's so unique about this offense is you do have 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:31.760 generations of family members just taken out completely excuse hard 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.400 to imagine a fact scenario, you know, more bizarre than 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:40.040 this one. It's so unique in so many ways. One 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.359 of them is the enormous burden the trials will place 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.400 on the legal teams and the Ohio criminal justice system. 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:49.679 You're trying the case in a small county with limited resources. 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.440 I don't know how they're going to do it. It's 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.520 just going to be a logistical nightmare. Can the Wagner 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.560