Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and
Speaker 1: there's shocked just a couple of mellow dudes about to
Speaker 1: talk about one of the worst public health disasters in
Speaker 1: American history. All right, that's right. And this one came
Speaker 1: about because we were just talking about this in a
Speaker 1: full length episode and little Josh he said, hey, we
Speaker 1: should do a short stuff on that thing, and being
Speaker 1: Bata boom. Two days later, we're doing it. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: even two days. I think it's the next day and
Speaker 1: in podcast land time, so it just came out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we activated our immediate response team, which which is us. Yes,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do one on the elixir sulfa nylamide disaster. Sure, all,
Speaker 1: how would you say it self selfonilamide? That's what I'm
Speaker 1: going with. All right, Hey man, potato potato sulfonilla minds
Speaker 1: whole finilomide. Let's call the whole thing off exactly, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, I know this is a short stuff,
Speaker 1: so there's really no no time to discourse. But I
Speaker 1: hate that song let's call a hold hang off? Yah
Speaker 1: hate it. Yeah, I told you I think one time
Speaker 1: about my friend Andrew and Los Angeles, whose friend auditioned
Speaker 1: with that song for a big musical production, and it
Speaker 1: never heard it really and didn't realize that you're supposed
Speaker 1: to say them differently. So you say tomato and I
Speaker 1: say tomato. You've just seen that the sheet music, I guess. So,
Speaker 1: I mean it's the story. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: checks out, but it's like Andy Kaufman performance, aren't piece.
Speaker 1: So we're not talking about that. We're talking we're going
Speaker 1: back to seven. Uh, back in the time where there
Speaker 1: was such a thing as the f d A. There
Speaker 1: was something called the nineteen oh six Food Drug and
Speaker 1: Cosmetics Act no Food Pure and Drug Act, Sorry, of
Speaker 1: which we talked about yesterday UM. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that it did was it said, there is this thing,
Speaker 1: this Bureau of Chemistry, that will become the f d A.
Speaker 1: But they're just kind of they're they're not really good
Speaker 1: at what they do yet because we don't have the
Speaker 1: regulation to let them do what they do. And so
Speaker 1: under that context, the idea of UM medicines was pretty
Speaker 1: much like the Wild West in America at the time. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think it's putting it very kindly. Earlier in that
Speaker 1: same decade, there was a microbiologist named Gerhard Domac and said, hey,
Speaker 1: I made a great discovery. This compound uh self, annylamide
Speaker 1: or nilamide acts as an antibiotic against strep and we
Speaker 1: can help strep throat and Pharmaceutical company said this is great.
Speaker 1: Let's pump out this powder and these tablets. And then
Speaker 1: someone at the Mass and Guild, the se Mass and
Speaker 1: Guild Pharmaceutical Company of Tennessee, said, you know what, people
Speaker 1: really want this in liquid form. Get to work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was a guy, the chief chemist was Dr Harold Watkins,
Speaker 1: and he started, you know, getting to work because they
Speaker 1: told him too, and that was his job and that
Speaker 1: was that, and so um he started um tinkering around.
Speaker 1: He needed a solvent something to dissolve the powdered sulfonillamide
Speaker 1: into a solution water because it doesn't just automatically dissolve.
Speaker 1: So he used the solvent die ethylene glycol, and he
Speaker 1: ended up coming up Yeah, just just seeing that on
Speaker 1: a label somewhere, wouldn't she'd be like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: second guess this decision. He went a whole hog on it,
Speaker 1: and so he came up with Elixir Sulfonillamide, which was
Speaker 1: ten percent sulfenillamide, the antibiotic, sixteen percent water, and seventy
Speaker 1: two die ethylene glycol. Yeah, and it gave it a
Speaker 1: sweet flavor, so the taste was good. It gave it
Speaker 1: a pinkish hue. He added a little bit of raspberry
Speaker 1: extract and said, let's hit the market. Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 1: I guess I kind of spoiled it a second ago.
Speaker 1: But it is a deadly poison and as you mentioned
Speaker 1: in the other episode, it's related to Annie freeze, which
Speaker 1: is not good to drink, and it kills you in
Speaker 1: horrific ways. It it really recks, uh, your kidney. Your
Speaker 1: kidneys will eventually shut down, but along the way, UM,
Speaker 1: you will be vomiting and agitated and have seizures and convulsions, terrible,
Speaker 1: intense pain, unrelenting pain. And they didn't know this because
Speaker 1: they didn't care carry out any test on this stuff,
Speaker 1: not just to make it, but to sell it. They
Speaker 1: didn't even test it out before they put it on
Speaker 1: the shelves, mainly because the law didn't say you had
Speaker 1: to at the time. No, But did you see that
Speaker 1: quote about UM that described the Massingulle company. I think
Speaker 1: even among you know, under the law. They were kind
Speaker 1: of seen as rendegades, right. Yeah, the quote was from
Speaker 1: the investigator. Apparently they just road drugs together and if
Speaker 1: they don't explode, they're placed on sale. And that's at
Speaker 1: that time, like in the thirties, right. So the mass
Speaker 1: and Got company they made two hundred and forty gallons
Speaker 1: initially of elix or sulfanillamide of this deadly, deadly poison
Speaker 1: and started shipping it around the country as medicine in
Speaker 1: September of ven and within just a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: the first desks were starting to be reported. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't like these days where they find something like
Speaker 1: oh this could cause a risk of cancer down the road,
Speaker 1: like you drink this stuff and you die. Yeah. It
Speaker 1: was that bad. Yeah, So I say we take a um,
Speaker 1: we take a break. The sulfanillamia elixers out there is
Speaker 1: starting to kill people, and we need to get some
Speaker 1: commercial messages in all right, So Chuck, The A m
Speaker 1: A was around at the time. It was our poison
Speaker 1: control episode. Remember we said the NIMA was formed in
Speaker 1: part as a response to this idea that people were
Speaker 1: being poisoned and I didn't know why. So the A
Speaker 1: m A Like they were keeping track of sulf vanilla
Speaker 1: mid but they had not heard of this se mass
Speaker 1: and guilt stuff, and they started getting reports of people
Speaker 1: taking it and dying from it, and they wanted to
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of that. Too sweet. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: they called him up and they said, hey, do you
Speaker 1: mind just send over that ingredient list our way and
Speaker 1: mass and Gil did. And here's the thing, they didn't
Speaker 1: really realize at the time what the deal was, Like
Speaker 1: they had to do all these they weren't like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, it's got diethylene glycol in it, that's what's
Speaker 1: killing people. Because it was had only been around, I
Speaker 1: think less than a decade or so, and obviously they
Speaker 1: didn't know where they wouldn't have used that, Like I
Speaker 1: don't think they willfully try to kill people. No, No,
Speaker 1: certainly not. But the A M as you know, they
Speaker 1: had to do test and they started sort of ruling
Speaker 1: things out, and they eventually found out that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: seventy whatever two percent of this stuff is a deadly
Speaker 1: poison and we need to start getting the message out
Speaker 1: to newspapers and radios and telling people this um. But
Speaker 1: you know, that's tough to do in those years. It
Speaker 1: is because um, as we'll see, the f d A
Speaker 1: sent a bunch of agents out and they were they
Speaker 1: were trying to get in touch with the traveling salesman
Speaker 1: for Mass and Gil, who were like, you know, they
Speaker 1: didn't have cell phones. They would you know, maybe leave
Speaker 1: a forwarding address at a hotel that you'd have to
Speaker 1: go shake down and the road. You go, yeah, you
Speaker 1: go chase that down and you find that they were
Speaker 1: already two cities beyond that last forwarding address, and um
Speaker 1: and they're doing this in the context of like this
Speaker 1: this race against the clock, that there's two pretty gallons
Speaker 1: of this stuff out there and people are being prescribed
Speaker 1: it and you're trying to find this traveling salesman who
Speaker 1: can point you in the direction of where these things
Speaker 1: were shipped to. Yeah, they also got in touch with
Speaker 1: Mass and Gil and they went, yeah, we know, uh,
Speaker 1: it's killing people and we're trying to get it back
Speaker 1: to We sent out these memos and on the wire
Speaker 1: and these telegrams saying that you know, we'd like the
Speaker 1: stuff back and it could be dangerous. And then the
Speaker 1: FDA said, no, man, send different telegrams saying you have
Speaker 1: to do this it is killing people. And they did,
Speaker 1: I mean, they complied that. You get the impression that
Speaker 1: the Massing company was rather reluctant partner to the f
Speaker 1: D a UM, but they did eventually do they took
Speaker 1: all the right steps that the FDA was kind of
Speaker 1: directing them too. Um. And so the FDA sent out
Speaker 1: all those field agents, and the field agents would have trouble,
Speaker 1: you know, tracking down a salesperson sometimes when they got
Speaker 1: in touch with the one of these sales and they
Speaker 1: would be worried about the company's image, so they would
Speaker 1: just not tell them who they sold these things too,
Speaker 1: and so they'd have to go through sales slips, you know,
Speaker 1: pharmacies around the country and um. When they would finally
Speaker 1: get in touch with doctors and pharmacists, they'd be worried
Speaker 1: about their legal liability, so they wouldn't be forthcoming with
Speaker 1: any of this information too. It must have just been
Speaker 1: really frustrating, you know. Yeah. I mean, so you've got
Speaker 1: doctors that aren't really cooperating some of them did. I
Speaker 1: think there was one story that you found where, uh,
Speaker 1: a doctor actually postponed his wedding just to help find
Speaker 1: one patient whose family had moved to the mountains with
Speaker 1: a sick kid and took a bottle of that stuff
Speaker 1: along that the doctor had given him. Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: some were more cooperative than others. I think the f
Speaker 1: d A they didn't have the teeth at the time
Speaker 1: that they do now, and they could not force a
Speaker 1: recall of a drug. Um, they were able to through
Speaker 1: sort of a loophole in that it was called elixir
Speaker 1: in on the label it was labeled as such, but
Speaker 1: apparently in less Uh, it contains alcohol. It's not an elixir,
Speaker 1: isn't that right? Yeah, it should have been called solution
Speaker 1: sulfonilla mide. And the fact that they called it elixer
Speaker 1: meant that technically it was mislabeled, and the FDA did
Speaker 1: have the ability to seize drugs that were mislabeled under
Speaker 1: the ninety Act. Yeah, but that was it. It's like
Speaker 1: getting al capone on tax evasion. They were able to
Speaker 1: get this this antibiotic back on this technicality that it
Speaker 1: was misnamed, But that's what they proceeded under, and so
Speaker 1: they were able to eventually get two hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: four gallons and one point of the two hundred and
Speaker 1: forty gallons that have been produced. Yeah, very great effort. Um.
Speaker 1: I think in the end, a hundred and five men,
Speaker 1: women and kids were killed. I think, uh or was it?
Speaker 1: That's total right? Yes, see, adults and thirty four kids.
Speaker 1: And they said if they hadn't I mean that loophole
Speaker 1: hadn't existed, that amount of liquid would have ended up
Speaker 1: killing about four thousand people. Yeah, and I mean depending
Speaker 1: on how they were prescribed, how much they were prescribed. Um.
Speaker 1: They some of them died in two days, some of
Speaker 1: them took three weeks to die, and they all died
Speaker 1: agonizing dusk. But the idea that you know, thousands more
Speaker 1: people could have died had the FDA not been able
Speaker 1: to do something about it is pretty you know, he's
Speaker 1: got to wipe your forehead with that one. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: Doctor Harold Watkins that we mentioned, the Mass and Gill
Speaker 1: chief chemist, he took his own life very sadly. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of survivals guilt, a lot of physicians
Speaker 1: as well as people that worked at Mass and Gille. Um,
Speaker 1: we're just wrecked with guilt afterward for a long time. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the doctors from Mount olive Um wrote to
Speaker 1: the President to f d R and said, please pass
Speaker 1: some more oversight measures over medicines because six of my patients,
Speaker 1: including my best friend, are now dead because of what
Speaker 1: I gave them. Yeah, that doctor I have to give
Speaker 1: shout out is quoted in a FDA consumer magazine article
Speaker 1: with the title Taste of Raspberries Taste of death. Colon
Speaker 1: no joke, that's it. No no colon comments. Then all right,
Speaker 1: it should have been colon The Rise and Fall of
Speaker 1: the Deadly elictor there was another death related to a
Speaker 1: to chuck. Um. Remember how we were saying, You said
Speaker 1: that the FDA just didn't have any the teeth to
Speaker 1: to make to enforce this. Well they got the teeth.
Speaker 1: There have been legislation kicking around in Washington to update
Speaker 1: that UM, that nine six Act and UM. When this happened,
Speaker 1: you know, the public outcry was so much that it
Speaker 1: helped this logic and get it past. But it was
Speaker 1: under the championship of UM Senator Royal Copeland of New
Speaker 1: York who sponsored that bill, and he dropped dead of
Speaker 1: exhaustion four days after it was passed. Whenever I see that,
Speaker 1: I think in what else, Yeah, like how many cigarettes
Speaker 1: didn't smoke? I think there was a what else? For sure.
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, like, I think I think
Speaker 1: there was some truth to it. I agreed, though, I
Speaker 1: think that that was I think that's wise to take
Speaker 1: died of exhaustion as a grain of salt. Agreed, you
Speaker 1: got any salted eat, You can die from salt, just
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with exhaustion. I got nothing else.
Speaker 1: Good when promise, uh, promise kept yes fulfilled the next
Speaker 1: day even uh and since we're done everybody, that means short.
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