WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Sulfanilamide Disaster

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's shocked just a couple of mellow dudes about to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about one of the worst public health disasters in

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<v Speaker 1>American history. All right, that's right. And this one came

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<v Speaker 1>about because we were just talking about this in a

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<v Speaker 1>full length episode and little Josh he said, hey, we

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<v Speaker 1>should do a short stuff on that thing, and being

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<v Speaker 1>Bata boom. Two days later, we're doing it. Yeah, not

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<v Speaker 1>even two days. I think it's the next day and

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<v Speaker 1>in podcast land time, so it just came out. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we activated our immediate response team, which which is us. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna do one on the elixir sulfa nylamide disaster. Sure, all,

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<v Speaker 1>how would you say it self selfonilamide? That's what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going with. All right, Hey man, potato potato sulfonilla minds

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<v Speaker 1>whole finilomide. Let's call the whole thing off exactly, which,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, I know this is a short stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's really no no time to discourse. But I

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<v Speaker 1>hate that song let's call a hold hang off? Yah

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<v Speaker 1>hate it. Yeah, I told you I think one time

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<v Speaker 1>about my friend Andrew and Los Angeles, whose friend auditioned

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<v Speaker 1>with that song for a big musical production, and it

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<v Speaker 1>never heard it really and didn't realize that you're supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to say them differently. So you say tomato and I

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<v Speaker 1>say tomato. You've just seen that the sheet music, I guess. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's the story. I don't know if it

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<v Speaker 1>checks out, but it's like Andy Kaufman performance, aren't piece.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're not talking about that. We're talking we're going

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<v Speaker 1>back to seven. Uh, back in the time where there

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<v Speaker 1>was such a thing as the f d A. There

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<v Speaker 1>was something called the nineteen oh six Food Drug and

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<v Speaker 1>Cosmetics Act no Food Pure and Drug Act, Sorry, of

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<v Speaker 1>which we talked about yesterday UM. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that it did was it said, there is this thing,

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<v Speaker 1>this Bureau of Chemistry, that will become the f d A.

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<v Speaker 1>But they're just kind of they're they're not really good

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<v Speaker 1>at what they do yet because we don't have the

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<v Speaker 1>regulation to let them do what they do. And so

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<v Speaker 1>under that context, the idea of UM medicines was pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much like the Wild West in America at the time. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's putting it very kindly. Earlier in that

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<v Speaker 1>same decade, there was a microbiologist named Gerhard Domac and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I made a great discovery. This compound uh self, annylamide

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<v Speaker 1>or nilamide acts as an antibiotic against strep and we

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<v Speaker 1>can help strep throat and Pharmaceutical company said this is great.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's pump out this powder and these tablets. And then

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<v Speaker 1>someone at the Mass and Guild, the se Mass and

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<v Speaker 1>Guild Pharmaceutical Company of Tennessee, said, you know what, people

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<v Speaker 1>really want this in liquid form. Get to work. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a guy, the chief chemist was Dr Harold Watkins,

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<v Speaker 1>and he started, you know, getting to work because they

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<v Speaker 1>told him too, and that was his job and that

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<v Speaker 1>was that, and so um he started um tinkering around.

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<v Speaker 1>He needed a solvent something to dissolve the powdered sulfonillamide

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<v Speaker 1>into a solution water because it doesn't just automatically dissolve.

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<v Speaker 1>So he used the solvent die ethylene glycol, and he

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<v Speaker 1>ended up coming up Yeah, just just seeing that on

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<v Speaker 1>a label somewhere, wouldn't she'd be like, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>second guess this decision. He went a whole hog on it,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he came up with Elixir Sulfonillamide, which was

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<v Speaker 1>ten percent sulfenillamide, the antibiotic, sixteen percent water, and seventy

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<v Speaker 1>two die ethylene glycol. Yeah, and it gave it a

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<v Speaker 1>sweet flavor, so the taste was good. It gave it

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<v Speaker 1>a pinkish hue. He added a little bit of raspberry

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<v Speaker 1>extract and said, let's hit the market. Yeah, and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I kind of spoiled it a second ago.

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<v Speaker 1>But it is a deadly poison and as you mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>in the other episode, it's related to Annie freeze, which

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<v Speaker 1>is not good to drink, and it kills you in

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<v Speaker 1>horrific ways. It it really recks, uh, your kidney. Your

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<v Speaker 1>kidneys will eventually shut down, but along the way, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>you will be vomiting and agitated and have seizures and convulsions, terrible,

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<v Speaker 1>intense pain, unrelenting pain. And they didn't know this because

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't care carry out any test on this stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>not just to make it, but to sell it. They

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<v Speaker 1>didn't even test it out before they put it on

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<v Speaker 1>the shelves, mainly because the law didn't say you had

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<v Speaker 1>to at the time. No, But did you see that

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<v Speaker 1>quote about UM that described the Massingulle company. I think

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<v Speaker 1>even among you know, under the law. They were kind

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<v Speaker 1>of seen as rendegades, right. Yeah, the quote was from

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<v Speaker 1>the investigator. Apparently they just road drugs together and if

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<v Speaker 1>they don't explode, they're placed on sale. And that's at

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<v Speaker 1>that time, like in the thirties, right. So the mass

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<v Speaker 1>and Got company they made two hundred and forty gallons

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<v Speaker 1>initially of elix or sulfanillamide of this deadly, deadly poison

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<v Speaker 1>and started shipping it around the country as medicine in

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<v Speaker 1>September of ven and within just a couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 1>the first desks were starting to be reported. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like these days where they find something like

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<v Speaker 1>oh this could cause a risk of cancer down the road,

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<v Speaker 1>like you drink this stuff and you die. Yeah. It

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<v Speaker 1>was that bad. Yeah, So I say we take a um,

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<v Speaker 1>we take a break. The sulfanillamia elixers out there is

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<v Speaker 1>starting to kill people, and we need to get some

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<v Speaker 1>commercial messages in all right, So Chuck, The A m

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<v Speaker 1>A was around at the time. It was our poison

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<v Speaker 1>control episode. Remember we said the NIMA was formed in

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<v Speaker 1>part as a response to this idea that people were

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<v Speaker 1>being poisoned and I didn't know why. So the A

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<v Speaker 1>m A Like they were keeping track of sulf vanilla

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<v Speaker 1>mid but they had not heard of this se mass

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<v Speaker 1>and guilt stuff, and they started getting reports of people

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<v Speaker 1>taking it and dying from it, and they wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>get to the bottom of that. Too sweet. Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 1>they called him up and they said, hey, do you

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<v Speaker 1>mind just send over that ingredient list our way and

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<v Speaker 1>mass and Gil did. And here's the thing, they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really realize at the time what the deal was, Like

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<v Speaker 1>they had to do all these they weren't like, wait

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<v Speaker 1>a minute, it's got diethylene glycol in it, that's what's

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<v Speaker 1>killing people. Because it was had only been around, I

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<v Speaker 1>think less than a decade or so, and obviously they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know where they wouldn't have used that, Like I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think they willfully try to kill people. No, No,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly not. But the A M as you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>had to do test and they started sort of ruling

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<v Speaker 1>things out, and they eventually found out that like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>seventy whatever two percent of this stuff is a deadly

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<v Speaker 1>poison and we need to start getting the message out

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<v Speaker 1>to newspapers and radios and telling people this um. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that's tough to do in those years. It

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<v Speaker 1>is because um, as we'll see, the f d A

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<v Speaker 1>sent a bunch of agents out and they were they

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to get in touch with the traveling salesman

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<v Speaker 1>for Mass and Gil, who were like, you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have cell phones. They would you know, maybe leave

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<v Speaker 1>a forwarding address at a hotel that you'd have to

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<v Speaker 1>go shake down and the road. You go, yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>go chase that down and you find that they were

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<v Speaker 1>already two cities beyond that last forwarding address, and um

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<v Speaker 1>and they're doing this in the context of like this

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<v Speaker 1>this race against the clock, that there's two pretty gallons

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<v Speaker 1>of this stuff out there and people are being prescribed

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<v Speaker 1>it and you're trying to find this traveling salesman who

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<v Speaker 1>can point you in the direction of where these things

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<v Speaker 1>were shipped to. Yeah, they also got in touch with

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<v Speaker 1>Mass and Gil and they went, yeah, we know, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's killing people and we're trying to get it back

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<v Speaker 1>to We sent out these memos and on the wire

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<v Speaker 1>and these telegrams saying that you know, we'd like the

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<v Speaker 1>stuff back and it could be dangerous. And then the

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<v Speaker 1>FDA said, no, man, send different telegrams saying you have

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<v Speaker 1>to do this it is killing people. And they did,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they complied that. You get the impression that

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<v Speaker 1>the Massing company was rather reluctant partner to the f

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<v Speaker 1>D a UM, but they did eventually do they took

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<v Speaker 1>all the right steps that the FDA was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>directing them too. Um. And so the FDA sent out

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<v Speaker 1>all those field agents, and the field agents would have trouble,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, tracking down a salesperson sometimes when they got

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<v Speaker 1>in touch with the one of these sales and they

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<v Speaker 1>would be worried about the company's image, so they would

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<v Speaker 1>just not tell them who they sold these things too,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they'd have to go through sales slips, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>pharmacies around the country and um. When they would finally

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<v Speaker 1>get in touch with doctors and pharmacists, they'd be worried

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<v Speaker 1>about their legal liability, so they wouldn't be forthcoming with

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<v Speaker 1>any of this information too. It must have just been

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<v Speaker 1>really frustrating, you know. Yeah. I mean, so you've got

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<v Speaker 1>doctors that aren't really cooperating some of them did. I

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<v Speaker 1>think there was one story that you found where, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>a doctor actually postponed his wedding just to help find

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<v Speaker 1>one patient whose family had moved to the mountains with

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<v Speaker 1>a sick kid and took a bottle of that stuff

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<v Speaker 1>along that the doctor had given him. Uh. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>some were more cooperative than others. I think the f

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<v Speaker 1>d A they didn't have the teeth at the time

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<v Speaker 1>that they do now, and they could not force a

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<v Speaker 1>recall of a drug. Um, they were able to through

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a loophole in that it was called elixir

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<v Speaker 1>in on the label it was labeled as such, but

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<v Speaker 1>apparently in less Uh, it contains alcohol. It's not an elixir,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't that right? Yeah, it should have been called solution

0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.080
<v Speaker 1>sulfonilla mide. And the fact that they called it elixer

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<v Speaker 1>meant that technically it was mislabeled, and the FDA did

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<v Speaker 1>have the ability to seize drugs that were mislabeled under

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<v Speaker 1>the ninety Act. Yeah, but that was it. It's like

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<v Speaker 1>getting al capone on tax evasion. They were able to

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<v Speaker 1>get this this antibiotic back on this technicality that it

0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.480
<v Speaker 1>was misnamed, But that's what they proceeded under, and so

0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.360
<v Speaker 1>they were able to eventually get two hundred and thirty

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<v Speaker 1>four gallons and one point of the two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>forty gallons that have been produced. Yeah, very great effort. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>I think in the end, a hundred and five men,

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<v Speaker 1>women and kids were killed. I think, uh or was it?

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<v Speaker 1>That's total right? Yes, see, adults and thirty four kids.

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<v Speaker 1>And they said if they hadn't I mean that loophole

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't existed, that amount of liquid would have ended up

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<v Speaker 1>killing about four thousand people. Yeah, and I mean depending

0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.079
<v Speaker 1>on how they were prescribed, how much they were prescribed. Um.

0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.080
<v Speaker 1>They some of them died in two days, some of

0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.560
<v Speaker 1>them took three weeks to die, and they all died

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<v Speaker 1>agonizing dusk. But the idea that you know, thousands more

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<v Speaker 1>people could have died had the FDA not been able

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<v Speaker 1>to do something about it is pretty you know, he's

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<v Speaker 1>got to wipe your forehead with that one. Yeah. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Harold Watkins that we mentioned, the Mass and Gill

0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.360
<v Speaker 1>chief chemist, he took his own life very sadly. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot of survivals guilt, a lot of physicians

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<v Speaker 1>as well as people that worked at Mass and Gille. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>we're just wrecked with guilt afterward for a long time. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the doctors from Mount olive Um wrote to

0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.319
<v Speaker 1>the President to f d R and said, please pass

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<v Speaker 1>some more oversight measures over medicines because six of my patients,

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<v Speaker 1>including my best friend, are now dead because of what

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<v Speaker 1>I gave them. Yeah, that doctor I have to give

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<v Speaker 1>shout out is quoted in a FDA consumer magazine article

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<v Speaker 1>with the title Taste of Raspberries Taste of death. Colon

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<v Speaker 1>no joke, that's it. No no colon comments. Then all right,

0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 1>it should have been colon The Rise and Fall of

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 1>the Deadly elictor there was another death related to a

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<v Speaker 1>to chuck. Um. Remember how we were saying, You said

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<v Speaker 1>that the FDA just didn't have any the teeth to

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<v Speaker 1>to make to enforce this. Well they got the teeth.

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<v Speaker 1>There have been legislation kicking around in Washington to update

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 1>that UM, that nine six Act and UM. When this happened,

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:41.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, the public outcry was so much that it

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.080
<v Speaker 1>helped this logic and get it past. But it was

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.440
<v Speaker 1>under the championship of UM Senator Royal Copeland of New

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.080
<v Speaker 1>York who sponsored that bill, and he dropped dead of

0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.920
<v Speaker 1>exhaustion four days after it was passed. Whenever I see that,

0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.200
<v Speaker 1>I think in what else, Yeah, like how many cigarettes

0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't smoke? I think there was a what else? For sure.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, I mean, like, I think I think

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<v Speaker 1>there was some truth to it. I agreed, though, I

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<v Speaker 1>think that that was I think that's wise to take

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<v Speaker 1>died of exhaustion as a grain of salt. Agreed, you

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<v Speaker 1>got any salted eat, You can die from salt, just

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<v Speaker 1>it has nothing to do with exhaustion. I got nothing else.

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<v Speaker 1>Good when promise, uh, promise kept yes fulfilled the next

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<v Speaker 1>day even uh and since we're done everybody, that means short.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff is stuff you should know is a production of

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