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Speaker 1: Hello. Hello. And welcome.

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Speaker 2: To My Favorite Murder.

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Speaker 1: That's Georgia Hardstar.

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Speaker 2: That's Karen Kilgariff. I dressed up for prom today.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a little mermaid prom.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: It's a prom under the sea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's sparkly.

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Speaker 2: I did my makeup, my eye makeup, like crazy sparkly

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Speaker 2: for Halloween. Yeah. And loved it so much. It like

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Speaker 2: brought me back to going to raves in high school

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Speaker 2: that I was like, why can't a 46 year old

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Speaker 2: woman go fucking crazy with eyeshadow?

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Speaker 1: She can.

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Speaker 2: And so I did a bunch of like tutorials on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: bought some crazy ass fucking makeup that I'd never owned

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Speaker 2: in my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And that's my new thing now.

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Speaker 1: Okay. You're going to do just a strong lid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And like in crazy colors and weird eyeliner. Like,

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Speaker 2: fuck it. I'm fucking bored. And I don't want to

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Speaker 2: keep fucking not doing it. Do it.

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Speaker 1: Do whatever you want. I did what I didn't want,

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Speaker 1: which was I was doing my makeup thinking I was

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Speaker 1: almost done. And then grabbed a lipstick, a lip velvet

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Speaker 1: that I thought looked good. And I put it on.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it was fully brown on me. It turned

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Speaker 1: the whole palette on my face kind of to an

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Speaker 1: orangey brown. And then they're like, everyone's waiting. So it's

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Speaker 1: just like.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. Remember in the 90s when brown

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Speaker 2: lipstick was like. The hottest trend.

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Speaker 1: Like Mac medium brown. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There was like a spice. What was the spice one?

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Speaker 2: Spice and toast. Fucking, they loved that. That's right. Toast

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Speaker 2: of New York.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That was real good deep one. Meanwhile, I would

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Speaker 1: put it on and be like, hello, I'm a young

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Speaker 1: vampire that doesn't have a job. That's what I always

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Speaker 1: looked like.

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Speaker 2: That's your type.

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Speaker 1: Actually. It's my type.

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Speaker 2: And you're dressing as your type.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Dress like the man you want.

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Speaker 2: I saw like a Halloween party on Instagram where people

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Speaker 2: dressed as their sexual awakening. So like whatever was hot

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Speaker 2: to you when you were a kid, when you were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: so whether you're, you know, gay, straight, whatever you are,

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Speaker 2: like people were just really hilarious things. And I was

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Speaker 2: thinking like I would dress and maybe that's what this is.

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Speaker 2: As David Bowie from The Labyrinth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, you saw that and you're like, my loins.

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Speaker 1: What's happening to me? That's so funny because mine was

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Speaker 1: the movie Summer Lovers with Peter Gallagher. And I believe.

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Speaker 2: With the eyebrows?

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Speaker 1: Daryl Hannah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that one.

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Speaker 1: They basically have a three-way in Greece. They're like a

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Speaker 1: couple that's like, we're young, beautiful, sexy couple in Greece.

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Speaker 1: But then they meet this other lady and then Whoever

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Speaker 1: the girlfriend is, I think it was Daryl Hannah, is

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Speaker 1: all jealous. And then he's like, you don't have to

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Speaker 1: be jealous. And me and my cousin Nancy are watching

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Speaker 1: it at like midnight. Everyone else is asleep. And we're like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way we should be watching this.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, we'll do that. So next Halloween.

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Speaker 1: Next Halloween.

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Speaker 2: David Bowie and Peter Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: Peter Gallagher.

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Speaker 2: Okay. With the eyebrows. With the eyebrows. All right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We planned that. See you next year.

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Speaker 1: So sorry, you have to be the person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the whoa person.

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Speaker 1: The one who did it to you. Yes. Got you.

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Speaker 2: So whoever that is.

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Speaker 1: I can grow my eyebrows out by then. If I

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Speaker 1: be here and I can take supplements. Yeah. I'll get

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Speaker 1: it done. I was going to tell you, this was

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Speaker 1: very exciting. My sister and my cousin Kim came down,

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Speaker 1: and Nora and all the girls, and we went and

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Speaker 1: saw The Chicks at the Dolby Theater. And they did,

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Speaker 1: the first half of the show was them talking about

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Speaker 1: the I'm Not Ready to Make Nice and that whole situation,

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Speaker 1: cancellation album. That whole thing happened because she said, I'm

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Speaker 1: ashamed that my president is from my country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they, like— It was basically I'm ashamed of my president. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they rolled clips of like it was the old

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Speaker 1: kind of news cycle. It wasn't just Fox News, but

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Speaker 1: it was other places. And the way they got absolutely attacked.

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Speaker 1: And in retrospect, it's so psychotic.

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Speaker 2: It is. Well, because you can't. Not being able to

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Speaker 2: criticize your country and your government when they're doing like

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Speaker 2: abhorrent things is called fascism and dictatorship. And that's bad.

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Speaker 2: And we don't live in one of those and we

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Speaker 2: don't want to treat it like one of those.

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Speaker 1: But it was right after 9-11. So they were kind

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Speaker 1: of playing on those emotions of if you are against us,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like just to see them

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Speaker 1: kind of tell the story was so incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there was an intermission. So that was like that,

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Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of the hits from that album. Intermission.

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Speaker 1: Then they come back, Earl's Gotta Die, Cowboy Take Me Away.

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Speaker 1: They just go into this cavalcade of hits that didn't

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Speaker 1: even pause between songs. They are such a good band.

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Speaker 1: Natalie Maine's voice is so incredible. It was just like

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Speaker 1: we were just standing there just like, wow, it's too

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Speaker 1: bad that we didn't just get to have them all

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Speaker 1: of these years.

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Speaker 2: Oh my God.

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Speaker 1: And watch them build and grow because they had to

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Speaker 1: be Right. They had to be sacrificed.

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Speaker 2: At the altar of?

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Speaker 1: Of women being too powerful and speaking up. Totally. That's

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Speaker 1: what it was. God forbid. God forbid. That's a similar

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Speaker 1: experience to your eyeshadow experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The chicks, eyeshadow.

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Speaker 1: However you get yours, it's time to tap in to

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Speaker 1: the thing that's going to make you rise on up. Powerful.

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Speaker 2: What's your power? Mine right now is eyeshadow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Eyeshadow power. Scream singing, Earl's Gotta Die, whatever. It's

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Speaker 1: up to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have a quick podcast to recommend that I

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Speaker 2: listened to and loved, and then something kind of similar

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Speaker 2: happened in the news. So remember, you know, the podcast Cold.

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Speaker 2: Season one, it was about the disappearance of Susan Powell

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Speaker 2: and her children and her murder. I just listened to

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Speaker 2: season five about a cold case missing person, a woman

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Speaker 2: named Nancy Perry Baird. And the season was called Blamed

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Speaker 2: on Bundy because her disappearance just was overall like just

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Speaker 2: kind of brushed aside as if Bundy did it. And

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Speaker 2: then in the news, like at the exact same time

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Speaker 2: I was listening to it, it turns out Ted Bundy's

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Speaker 2: DNA matched a 1974 cold case murder of a young

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Speaker 2: woman named Melissa Ann Smith in Utah. So it was

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Speaker 2: a crazy good podcast, Cold Season 5. And just like

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Speaker 2: that Ted Bundy's still on our fucking radar to this day. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What a monster. Yeah. That's it. That's my recommendation. Good one.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. Should we go into our highlights?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it. Come on. We have a podcast network.

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Speaker 2: It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you don't know, you can watch brand new

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Speaker 1: episodes of this here show, My Favorite Murder, and also

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Speaker 1: Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Hull's show, Buried Bones, every

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Speaker 1: week on Netflix.

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Speaker 2: That's right. You want to see her new haircut and

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Speaker 2: my eye shadow? Go to Netflix.

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Speaker 1: There's a visual of this.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And if you're more of a seafaring type,

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Speaker 2: Buried Bones and Disgraceland are taking true crime to the

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Speaker 2: high seas with Virgin Voyages in March. Booking is open

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Speaker 2: now at virginvoyages.com. Let us know if you're going. That's

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Speaker 2: going to be crazy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we would love to hear about that. Also, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't heard yet, there's a new Apple original podcast

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Speaker 1: from Plan B and our amazing friends at Blanchard House,

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Speaker 1: It's called Heart. It tells the extraordinary story of two

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Speaker 1: men who are connected by a heart transplant and who

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Speaker 1: die in strangely similar circumstances. And guess who's hosting it?

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Speaker 1: It's our own Karen Kilgara.

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Speaker 2: Hey, that's you.

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Speaker 1: We wrote this line for you, but I guess we're

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Speaker 1: out of order. You can listen now on Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're going to do a little special

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Speaker 1: feed drop. I'm very proud of it. They do amazing work.

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Speaker 1: I just get to read what they do. But it

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Speaker 1: is an unbelievable true crime story, unlike anything I've ever heard. Amazing.

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Speaker 2: It's called Heart. And in merch corner, we've got some

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Speaker 2: brand new items at the Exactly Right store. So check

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Speaker 2: out the new Black on Black Murderino hat.

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Speaker 1: Say it, but you don't have to yell it.

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Speaker 2: I love the Black on Black.

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Speaker 1: So good.

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Speaker 2: It's featuring 3D embroidery of the word Murderino. So you

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Speaker 2: can let everyone know without being obnoxious about it.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: And then our favorite Panther design by Daphna Sabane is back,

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Speaker 2: this time on a zip-up hoodie and crew neck.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 2: That was a fun reveal. I love this one so much.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: So perfect little hoodie for fall and winter. Check that

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Speaker 2: out at exactlyrightstore.com to shop now. It's so soft.

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Speaker 1: Literally putting it straight into my big purse.

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Speaker 2: It's so soft. Oh, Karen's got the crew neck.

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Speaker 1: I'm planning on shoplifting the zip-up.

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Speaker 2: Then I'll take the crew neck.

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Speaker 1: Here's the crew neck.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's the crew neck that I'm going to steal. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's freaking cool.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: That's so cool.

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Speaker 1: Also, the blanks that Nicole picks are so cozy and, like,

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Speaker 1: very quality. I know that these days especially, merch is

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Speaker 1: an expensive thing. It's definitely a treat for yourself. But

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Speaker 1: this one, if you pay the money, it's worth it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't get the shitty stuff.

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Speaker 1: I love that this was described as 3D.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's like— Because it is.

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Speaker 1: It's like the stitching is up off of the material.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's stitched on, not printed.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's cool.

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Speaker 1: And, okay, so finally, we asked you to vote for

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Speaker 1: all these people because the Signal Awards were coming up,

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Speaker 1: and we had a bunch of hosts and shows that

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Speaker 1: were nominated, and they won. A bunch of them won.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Disgraceland, Two-Face, John O'God, I Said No Gifts,

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Speaker 2: The Knife, and Brief Recess earned eight awards together. across

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Speaker 2: seven categories. Incredible. That's so awesome. We are so proud

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Speaker 2: of them here at Exactly Right. A huge thank you

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Speaker 2: to everyone who voted. We obviously couldn't have done any

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Speaker 2: of this without all our amazing listeners.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You put them there. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Good job. All right, I'm first.

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Speaker 1: You are.

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Speaker 2: I've got a story for you. That's what this podcast is.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Let's hear it.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's just get into this. It's early 1987,

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Speaker 2: and we are in Millbrook, New York. It's a, quote,

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Speaker 2: picturesque historic village. It's kind of a tony village in

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Speaker 2: the Hudson Valley. I looked up what famous people live there.

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Speaker 2: Bette Midler, Sigourney Weaver, Mary Tyler Moore had lived there.

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Speaker 2: So it's like a cute but really nice place.

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Speaker 1: I've been there. Have you? Yes. I went to Cold

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Speaker 1: Spring one time. And I'm almost positive that's in the

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Speaker 1: Hudson Valley.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, God.

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Speaker 1: It's New Yorkers. They're going to eat me alive.

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Speaker 2: I have that here. Some people are like... It's not.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't count.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have seen pictures, though, of like the view

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Speaker 1: onto the river and everything. It's so gorgeous, especially this

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Speaker 1: time of year.

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Speaker 2: And there's actually a house that's up for sale right

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Speaker 2: now called the Hitchcock House that you should definitely buy.

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Speaker 2: Timothy Leary did some experiments there. It's only $ 65 million.

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Speaker 1: Great.

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Speaker 2: Just a little weekend place. Some people would refer to

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Speaker 2: it as upstate New York. But of course, that's a

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Speaker 2: debatable thing with New Yorkers. And so I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to get into that.

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Speaker 1: No one wants to debate a New Yorker.

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Speaker 2: No, we're not.

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Speaker 1: They talk so fast.

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Speaker 2: That's not this podcast. But the beautiful blonde haired 24

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Speaker 2: year old who the story is about named Sherry Orofino

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Speaker 2: lives in Millbrook, New York, but is originally from Queens.

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Speaker 2: And it's likely that she herself would refer to Millbrook

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Speaker 2: as upstate. Here's a photo of beautiful Millbrook. It just

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Speaker 2: seems like a little picturesque Hudson Valley upscale neighborhood. So

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Speaker 2: Sherry and her husband, Paul, had only recently moved from

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Speaker 2: Manhattan to Millbrook and have been married for about a year.

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Speaker 2: New York's crime rate is still peaking, and so they

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Speaker 2: wanted to start a family out where it's supposed to

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Speaker 2: be safer. Also, Paul, the husband, is a music producer,

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Speaker 2: and he's just opened a recording studio in Millbrook where

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Speaker 2: it's much less expensive to do than in Manhattan, and

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Speaker 2: it's a beautiful setting for artists to come in and record.

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Speaker 2: And he has recorded in his studio bands like Blue

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Speaker 2: Oyster Cult, And the Cars. Ooh. And also Luscious Jackson.

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Speaker 2: So it's possible that Kate Schellenbach knows him or knew him.

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Speaker 2: So at the end of February, a band had booked

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Speaker 2: the studio for a solid month. And so Paul is

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Speaker 2: up working with them until around midnight every night. And

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Speaker 2: so because of this, Sherry decides she wants to go

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Speaker 2: back to Bayside where she's from in her neighborhood in Queens.

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Speaker 2: To visit with friends so she's not home alone every night.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a look at a photo of her. She,

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Speaker 2: to me, it screams Vanna White. She's just this beautiful

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Speaker 2: 80s blonde. Yeah. With a big smile. So on February 28th, 1987,

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Speaker 2: after a few days away from home, Sherry tells her

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Speaker 2: friends she wants to go back up to Millbrook so

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Speaker 2: she can meet Paul for dinner that night. She calls

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Speaker 2: Paul and tells him the same thing, but she never

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Speaker 2: makes it home. Mm-hmm. This is the story of the

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Speaker 2: murder of Sherry Orofino, which some would call unsolved, but

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Speaker 2: many would simply call unresolved. The main source for the

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Speaker 2: story is reporting from the Journal News by Jonathan Bandler,

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Speaker 2: and the rest of the sources can be found in

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Speaker 2: the show notes. So Sherry is, by all accounts, a

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Speaker 2: very cool girl. Paul describes her as saying, quote, she

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Speaker 2: was easygoing. Everybody loved her. She was just a lot

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Speaker 2: of fun. End quote. She drives a sports car. It's

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Speaker 2: a black 1987 Toyota MR2. And her drive back home

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Speaker 2: to Paul should have taken around two hours, probably less,

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Speaker 2: since Sherry had set out from Queens at around 3 a.m.

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Speaker 2: So there wouldn't have been a lot of traffic. But

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Speaker 2: a few hours later, on the morning of March 1st,

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Speaker 2: when she hasn't made it home, Paul calls around, calls

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Speaker 2: her friends. They confirm she had left hours ago and

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Speaker 2: should have been home by then. And so he calls

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Speaker 2: the local police in Millbrook and the police precinct in Bayside.

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Speaker 2: And there's a lot of jurisdictional issues with this case,

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Speaker 2: which obviously, especially back in 1987, when jurisdictions didn't want

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Speaker 2: to share information, just made it harder.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It feels like in the future when all the

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Speaker 1: other horrifying things get cleared up, which they will, that

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Speaker 1: idea of like actually passing laws about how jurisdictions have

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Speaker 1: to share information, that idea of like, keeping things from

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Speaker 1: other people so that it's your case or that kind

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Speaker 1: of territorialism is just like story after story we tell

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Speaker 1: where it just screws everything up.

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Speaker 2: Right. Exactly. So Sherry's root home would have taken her

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Speaker 2: across northern Queens, into the Bronx, across southern Westchester County,

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Speaker 2: and then north, eventually putting her on the Taconic State Parkway,

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Speaker 2: which is a stretch of road that links Westchester County

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Speaker 2: to just south of Albany. So it's how to get upstate.

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Speaker 2: So the Taconic is really at the heart of the

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Speaker 2: search effort that ramps up later in the day on Sunday,

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Speaker 2: March 1st and Monday, March 2nd. But on Monday morning,

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Speaker 2: Sherry's car is found just off the Taconic on Route

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Speaker 2: 134 in Yorktown. The car is found under the overpass

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Speaker 2: for the Taconic. So it's right off the exit, but

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Speaker 2: it's still about an hour south of Millbrook. So something

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Speaker 2: happened on her way home and her car is empty, abandoned.

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Speaker 2: The other thing about Sherry's car, aside from it being

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Speaker 2: in a weird spot, is that it's locked and it's

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Speaker 2: in perfect condition. And Sherry is not in it, obviously.

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Speaker 2: There's not much information available about what, if anything, is

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Speaker 2: found inside the car. And that might be because this

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Speaker 2: case is still considered technically open. Not technically, it is open.

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Speaker 2: Investigators set up roadblocks around the area of the Taconic

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Speaker 2: where Sherry's car had been found, and they're hoping to

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Speaker 2: get information from people who were on the road at

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Speaker 2: the time Sherry went missing to see if anyone might

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Speaker 2: have seen anything. And several witnesses report seeing a blonde

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Speaker 2: woman being pulled over by a police officer right in

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Speaker 2: that area that night. Sherry's family and Paul say that

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Speaker 2: makes sense because Sherry, who is a product of New

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Speaker 2: York in the 1970s and 80s, was very street smart

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Speaker 2: and cautious and would have never pulled over for just

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Speaker 2: anyone rather than a cop if she were driving alone

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Speaker 2: at night. Right. Six agonizing months pass and Sherry's parents,

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Speaker 2: Joan and Nathan Letweck, her brother Scott and Paul, the husband,

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Speaker 2: are beside themselves. In the days immediately following the disappearance, Paul,

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Speaker 2: the husband, is looked at and obviously thoroughly investigated and

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Speaker 2: ultimately ruled out completely as a suspect. Then in August,

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Speaker 2: a horrifying discovery is made by a man fishing with

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Speaker 2: his son's Sherry's body is found at the bottom of

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Speaker 2: a steep embankment in Yorktown, not far from Route 134

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Speaker 2: where her car was found. The embankment leads to the

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Speaker 2: Croton Reservoir, which is a water storage basin. It's basically

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Speaker 2: just a really beautiful lake. It's just so out of,

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Speaker 2: you know, left field to find something like that there.

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Speaker 2: It's just really sad and heartbreaking. Yeah. According to some reports,

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Speaker 2: Sherry's remains are skeletal and no cause of death is

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Speaker 2: able to be determined. No clothes are found with her body.

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Speaker 2: And again, not every detail is shared, but police refer

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Speaker 2: to the case definitively as a homicide. So here's a

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Speaker 2: photo of where the Taconic crosses the Croton Reservoir. It's

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Speaker 2: just this beautiful Hudson Valley location. And so that's where

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Speaker 2: her body was found. Investigators are already aware that some

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Speaker 2: sort of law enforcement official might be involved in Sherry's

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Speaker 2: disappearance because of the information they obtained at the roadblocks.

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Speaker 2: And so because of this, they go around to all

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Speaker 2: of the municipalities along the Taconic to find out who

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Speaker 2: was on duty near it that night and question all

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Speaker 2: of the officers. They find one who they suspect of

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Speaker 2: giving false statements during this questioning. He's a police officer,

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Speaker 2: and Allie and I debated on whether or not to

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Speaker 2: put his name in this because he hasn't been charged

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Speaker 2: with this crime, but he is, you'll see, charged with

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Speaker 2: some other crimes.

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Speaker 1: Like his name is public record?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see. So his name is Ronald Langer from

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Speaker 2: a town called Briarcliff, which is along Sherry's route on

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Speaker 2: the Taconic, a little south of where she was found.

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Speaker 2: So during the same time period when Sherry had gone missing,

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Speaker 2: several women come forward and tell investigators that they had

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Speaker 2: been stopped on the Taconic State Parkway in the same

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Speaker 2: stretch where Sherry's car had been found by a police

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Speaker 2: officer who had then sexually harassed them. In fact, one

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Speaker 2: of these women was an off-duty NYPD officer, and she

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Speaker 2: made sure to get his name and which town he

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Speaker 2: worked for and made a complaint about him. This woman,

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Speaker 2: whose name was Fran, said, quote, if I was a man,

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Speaker 2: he would have let me keep going, but I was

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Speaker 2: a dirty blonde driving a sports car, so he came

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Speaker 2: right out behind me, end quote, which is the exact

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Speaker 2: description of Sherry. He lets her go when she flashes

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Speaker 2: her badge at him. And then a weird thing about

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Speaker 2: him being there as well is that none of the

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Speaker 2: cops from these small towns along the Taconic have any

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Speaker 2: jurisdiction on the roadway. The Taconic is exclusively monitored by

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Speaker 2: New York State Police. Mm-hmm. So not only was this

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Speaker 2: man stopping women without cause and harassing them, but he

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Speaker 2: didn't even have authority to stop them at all. And

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Speaker 2: like nowadays, we know, never pull over when you're alone.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just.

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Speaker 1: Just drive to a police station.

401
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Speaker 2: Yeah. The investigation into this man winds up being reported

402
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Speaker 2: in local papers. around 18 months after Sherry's first disappearance

403
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Speaker 2: at the end of 1988. And at this point, a

404
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 2: young woman named Jennifer Hummel reads the newspaper and has

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Speaker 2: a sinking feeling. So in the wee hours of the

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Speaker 2: morning of February 28th, 1987, one day before Sherry had

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Speaker 2: gone missing, Jennifer, who was 21 at the time, was

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Speaker 2: driving home on the Taconic. She was pulled over by

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Speaker 2: a state trooper who thought she was borderline intoxicated, but

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Speaker 2: that trooper let her go. It sounds like maybe she

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Speaker 2: had a drink at some point but would not have

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Speaker 2: failed a breathalyzer test. So he let her move on,

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Speaker 2: but then she stopped again, this time by the officer,

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Speaker 2: Ronald Langer, who would ultimately become a suspect in the

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Speaker 2: murder of Sherry. And reporter Jonathan Bandler writes, quote, he

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Speaker 2: said he didn't believe she could drive and had to

417
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Speaker 2: get her into his patrol car. She said he drove

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Speaker 2: her to a wooded area along the reservoir where they

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Speaker 2: sat for more than an hour. He began telling her

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Speaker 2: about himself, how he felt underappreciated in the police force,

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Speaker 2: how everyone mistreated him and how he had once been

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Speaker 2: shot in the line of duty but hadn't gotten the

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Speaker 2: recognition he thought he deserved for that.

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Speaker 1: So you're sitting in the middle of the night in

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Speaker 1: a cop car where he's put you in it ostensibly

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Speaker 1: because he's saying for legal reasons. Yeah. Then he drives

427
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Speaker 1: you somewhere and just starts ranting to you about himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, drives you to a secluded location and starts talking

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Speaker 2: to you like you're on a date or something. He

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Speaker 2: told her how pretty she was, how he'd like to

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Speaker 2: go out with her. Her fear mounted, especially when he

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Speaker 2: moved closer. She described how he leaned over her, put

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Speaker 2: his hand in her hair and pulled her face to

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Speaker 2: his lips. And then it says, quote, I pulled back,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't want to seem disgusted and make him

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Speaker 2: feel angry, which is just. what we do is.

437
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,070
Speaker 1: But it's smart. Yeah, absolutely. That's the smartest thing.

438
00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:11,169
Speaker 2: She said, quote, if I had said I'm going to

439
00:21:11,210 --> 00:21:14,909
Speaker 2: report you, I felt I'd be dead. He insisted on

440
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:17,230
Speaker 2: taking her to a diner for coffee. He brought it

441
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:19,210
Speaker 2: to her in the car. She finished it quickly and

442
00:21:19,330 --> 00:21:22,490
Speaker 2: asked again to be taken back to her car. He complied.

443
00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:25,050
Speaker 2: As she was opening her car door, he grabbed her,

444
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:27,710
Speaker 2: pushed her up against the car and forcibly kissed her.

445
00:21:28,330 --> 00:21:31,250
Speaker 2: She pulled back, but not away and didn't kiss him back.

446
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:33,989
Speaker 2: And then she says, I just kept repeating to myself

447
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,540
Speaker 2: It's just a few minutes, and then I'll be free.

448
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,780
Speaker 2: I'll be alive, she recalled, end quote.

449
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:45,500
Speaker 1: It's just such a specific experience that it feels to

450
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,180
Speaker 1: me like when people are like, don't make a big

451
00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:51,369
Speaker 1: deal about it, women are dramatic or whatever. The men

452
00:21:51,470 --> 00:21:55,030
Speaker 1: who might engage in that kind of talk, and I

453
00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:57,950
Speaker 1: did get this from somebody else's TikTok, and it's so brilliant.

454
00:21:58,390 --> 00:22:01,450
Speaker 1: This guy was going, well, just think of it, what

455
00:22:01,490 --> 00:22:03,630
Speaker 1: if it was a bigger man doing it to you

456
00:22:03,730 --> 00:22:06,540
Speaker 1: as a man? Would you be saying those same things?

457
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:06,699
Speaker 2: Yeah.

458
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,580
Speaker 1: Would that be your energy? How would you feel? And

459
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: that kind of thing where it's just like, it's not

460
00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: that big of a deal. You know, she might have

461
00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:15,810
Speaker 1: been into it. All that kind of stuff. It just

462
00:22:15,850 --> 00:22:19,050
Speaker 1: goes out the window when you're like, you're absolutely trapped

463
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,210
Speaker 1: by an authority figure with a gun. Right. Who can

464
00:22:22,270 --> 00:22:24,030
Speaker 1: put you in jail or worse.

465
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:26,990
Speaker 2: Totally. Jennifer says her mother told her not to report

466
00:22:27,030 --> 00:22:29,630
Speaker 2: the incident, possibly out of fear that the police would

467
00:22:29,670 --> 00:22:31,670
Speaker 2: rally around their own, which they do.

468
00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:32,730
Speaker 1: They do.

469
00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: Or retaliate against her, which... They do. But once she

470
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:38,990
Speaker 2: reads about the other complaints against the suspect and the

471
00:22:39,030 --> 00:22:42,109
Speaker 2: fact that he's being investigated for Sherry's murder, she comes

472
00:22:42,170 --> 00:22:44,350
Speaker 2: forward and tells her story. And especially because it happened

473
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:47,150
Speaker 2: the day before Sherry went missing, which is just there's

474
00:22:47,230 --> 00:22:48,270
Speaker 2: no coincidences.

475
00:22:48,619 --> 00:22:50,460
Speaker 1: And just spine chilling for that woman.

476
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,179
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Ronald Langer, the officer, claims the only part of

477
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,500
Speaker 2: the story that's true is that he brought Jennifer Coffey

478
00:22:56,540 --> 00:22:59,810
Speaker 2: to help her, quote, sober up. Jennifer says, quote, he's

479
00:22:59,850 --> 00:23:02,030
Speaker 2: a bald-faced liar. He knows what he did.

480
00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:04,550
Speaker 1: Where's the other cop to say she actually wasn't, she

481
00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:05,550
Speaker 1: didn't need to sober up?

482
00:23:05,609 --> 00:23:07,590
Speaker 2: I mean, it's almost lucky that she got pulled over

483
00:23:07,630 --> 00:23:10,510
Speaker 2: before to corroborate that this happened.

484
00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:11,550
Speaker 1: Like, did they have that?

485
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:14,230
Speaker 2: I probably, I'd imagine.

486
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:16,490
Speaker 1: It just would be nice to live in a world

487
00:23:16,540 --> 00:23:20,139
Speaker 1: where that cop would immediately show up and be like, no, no, no,

488
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,379
Speaker 1: that's not true.

489
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,380
Speaker 2: I think there would be a report saying I pulled

490
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 2: someone over and let her go. So hopefully that was

491
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:30,300
Speaker 2: part of it. Officer Ronald Langer resigns and in 1990

492
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: is arrested on federal charges of violating multiple women's civil rights.

493
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: At the same time, Sherry's family urges the Westchester DA

494
00:23:37,859 --> 00:23:40,500
Speaker 2: to bring a grand jury investigation against him to look

495
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: into charges for Sherry's murder. But for some fucking reason,

496
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:47,570
Speaker 2: these charges are never brought. Ronald Langer is found guilty

497
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:51,550
Speaker 2: in the civil rights case after eight women testify against him. Wow.

498
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:54,410
Speaker 2: And serves two years in prison of a six-year sentence.

499
00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:57,970
Speaker 2: For his part, he says he'd never pulled anyone over illegally.

500
00:23:58,050 --> 00:24:00,730
Speaker 2: He also claims to have no knowledge of the area

501
00:24:00,850 --> 00:24:03,590
Speaker 2: near the Croton Dam where Sherry was found. But his

502
00:24:03,730 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: ex-wife refutes that. There's not a lot of information and

503
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:10,420
Speaker 2: not a lot of reporting at the time on this.

504
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:13,740
Speaker 2: So I can't say more about that, but that's what...

505
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: Allie was able to find. A longtime investigator on this

506
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,910
Speaker 2: case says that every woman who complained about Ronald Langer

507
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:23,990
Speaker 2: had long blonde hair, just like Sherry. About 10 years

508
00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:27,730
Speaker 2: after Ronald Langer finishes his sentence in the civil rights case,

509
00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: somehow he winds up getting a job in the unemployment

510
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: office at the New York Department of Labor. So despite

511
00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: his arrest and his incarceration for violating the civil rights

512
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:44,910
Speaker 2: of women as an officer, he gets a job with

513
00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:48,620
Speaker 2: New York State. In 2015, he was one year away

514
00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 2: from getting his pension. So we're presuming he's retired by

515
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: this point, but you can't really find anything about him online.

516
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,010
Speaker 2: So Paul, the husband, has moved his recording studio to

517
00:24:59,070 --> 00:25:03,650
Speaker 2: Nashville and only gives occasional interviews about this awful time

518
00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:06,909
Speaker 2: in his life. Back in 1990, he said, quote, Sherry

519
00:25:06,970 --> 00:25:10,669
Speaker 2: wasn't anybody famous and her parents aren't wealthy. or have

520
00:25:10,730 --> 00:25:13,949
Speaker 2: ties to powerful politicians. She was a beautiful woman who

521
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:17,010
Speaker 2: led an everyday life, and her murder should be given

522
00:25:17,050 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: the same priority as anyone else's. Her killer should pay

523
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,100
Speaker 2: for taking her life, end quote. Sherry's brother Scott passed

524
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: away in 2013, and her father Norman died two years

525
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:32,169
Speaker 2: before that. It's from what we could find, Joan, her mom,

526
00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: still might be alive. When he was pushing for a

527
00:25:34,619 --> 00:25:38,580
Speaker 2: grand jury investigation, Sherry's dad told reporters, quote, Only a

528
00:25:38,619 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: parent who has lost a child in such a violent

529
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,930
Speaker 2: way can ever know the feeling I have. It was emptiness, horror, pain,

530
00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:48,370
Speaker 2: and anger boiling inside me. Now I want the man

531
00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:52,410
Speaker 2: the police believe did it to pay. This is still

532
00:25:52,450 --> 00:25:54,930
Speaker 2: considered an open case and as of six years ago

533
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:57,379
Speaker 2: was being handled by the New York Bureau of Criminal

534
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: Investigation in Courtland. Any tips or information perhaps about genealogical

535
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:06,610
Speaker 2: DNA can be directed there. And that is the story

536
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:08,770
Speaker 2: of the murder of Sherry Orofino.

537
00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:09,290
Speaker 1: Wow.

538
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:14,449
Speaker 2: Such a small amount of information, but such a clear suspect.

539
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: Well, also the sinister part of when people with power

540
00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:23,540
Speaker 1: can do whatever they want, that somebody with a tendency

541
00:26:23,619 --> 00:26:30,690
Speaker 1: potentially to serially harass women and maybe assault women or more.

542
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: That's why they get into positions of power, so that

543
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: they can do that and that they get defended in

544
00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: doing it.

545
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,220
Speaker 2: And there's no way that, like, people in his office

546
00:26:40,260 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: didn't know what he was like and maybe even what

547
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: he was doing and didn't say anything. Maybe they did

548
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,350
Speaker 2: and nothing came out of it. I mean, it had

549
00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:52,090
Speaker 2: to be an open secret that he did that.

550
00:26:52,450 --> 00:26:52,650
Speaker 1: Right.

551
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:52,929
Speaker 2: You know?

552
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,660
Speaker 1: Or he kept it a secret like a serial killer, right?

553
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: Because maybe that's how intense it was. Like that it

554
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: was more than just he's the office creep.

555
00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:04,220
Speaker 2: Totally.

556
00:27:04,590 --> 00:27:07,630
Speaker 1: Maybe he's like the Jekyll and Hyde person. Because that's

557
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:10,030
Speaker 1: also one of the really bad ones is when those

558
00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:12,630
Speaker 1: stories of like, you would have never suspected he was such.

559
00:27:12,790 --> 00:27:17,950
Speaker 1: It's the Ted Bundy thing. Yeah. Well, as we do

560
00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: on this show, I'm going to change the subject. Great.

561
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:23,020
Speaker 1: So here's the thing I know that you have said

562
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: hundreds of times at dinner parties. When can we talk

563
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: about Route 66? And my answer to you is right now.

564
00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:30,740
Speaker 2: Oh, thank God. Finally.

565
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: Right?

566
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:32,140
Speaker 2: My day has come.

567
00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:35,940
Speaker 1: Right? I think of you when I put these stories together,

568
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: when Maren and I and Molly and everybody put these

569
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,109
Speaker 1: stories together. So as you well know, yesterday, as of

570
00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: this recording, yesterday was the 100th anniversary of Route 66. Wow.

571
00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: A root has an anniversary.

572
00:27:48,740 --> 00:27:51,379
Speaker 1: It does. It was born. It has a birthday. Actually,

573
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:55,129
Speaker 1: Maren kept referring to it as the birthday of Roots.

574
00:27:55,470 --> 00:27:56,270
Speaker 2: I don't know.

575
00:27:56,290 --> 00:27:58,750
Speaker 1: It seems a little personal.

576
00:27:58,810 --> 00:28:00,609
Speaker 2: It's a little party hat on.

577
00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:03,149
Speaker 1: Highway with a diaper. So if you don't know what

578
00:28:03,170 --> 00:28:05,590
Speaker 1: we're talking about right now, there is this stretch of

579
00:28:05,670 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: highway that goes from Los Angeles to Chicago. It's 2,500

580
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,180
Speaker 1: miles long, and it connects the two. It spans eight states.

581
00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:20,699
Speaker 1: And it opened November 11th, 1926. And essentially, it was

582
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,420
Speaker 1: one of the first big highways in America. Before that,

583
00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:29,010
Speaker 1: it was like old pioneer trails and stuff. So it

584
00:28:29,070 --> 00:28:32,090
Speaker 1: became the pathway for the Great American Road Trip. And

585
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:36,170
Speaker 1: Route 66 is now dotted with like kitschy themed motels

586
00:28:36,830 --> 00:28:39,690
Speaker 1: and quirky roadside attractions. That's how you get things like

587
00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: the biggest ball of yarn and a whole building that's

588
00:28:42,980 --> 00:28:45,710
Speaker 1: shaped like a chicken and stuff. And You pull over

589
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:47,510
Speaker 1: and you get some postcards because you have to do

590
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: something when you're driving all that way. But in 1928,

591
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: Route 66, it was its second birthday. It was just

592
00:28:55,340 --> 00:28:55,900
Speaker 1: two years old.

593
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:56,130
Speaker 2: Aw.

594
00:28:56,690 --> 00:29:00,310
Speaker 1: It's hardly even a highway. It wasn't even fully paved

595
00:29:00,370 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: until the late 30s. But it's, you know, it was

596
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:05,900
Speaker 1: still there. It had its sign, the very famous sign,

597
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,540
Speaker 1: Route 66, that you can see like throughout California.

598
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

599
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,460
Speaker 1: They let you know that you're on this historic road.

600
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: So catch.

601
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,780
Speaker 1: Right. And knowing that it wasn't really paved in 28

602
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:20,820
Speaker 1: is why it's so crazy that at that time, one

603
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: enigmatic sports agent will come up with an idea to

604
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: hold a foot race across America. with a prize that

605
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,260
Speaker 1: for the time is a life-changing amount of money. The

606
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:35,550
Speaker 1: runners who sign up will face grueling conditions, brutal injuries,

607
00:29:36,210 --> 00:29:39,870
Speaker 1: and then that sports agent will quickly get in way

608
00:29:39,890 --> 00:29:42,450
Speaker 1: over his head for this big plan. This is the

609
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:46,580
Speaker 1: story of the 1928 transcontinental foot race, which is also

610
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: known as the Bunyan Derby.

611
00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: Ew. I don't know this at all.

612
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:56,780
Speaker 1: Okay. Main sources used for this story are two books.

613
00:29:57,060 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: One is called Bunyan Derby by Charles B. Kastner and

614
00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: And the other is called C.C. Pyle's Amazing Foot Race

615
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: by someone named Jeff Williams. So we can take a

616
00:30:06,180 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: little look at the program. That's what went out into

617
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:12,570
Speaker 1: the land. Essentially, just to kind of give a little

618
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:15,490
Speaker 1: context to this, in the 20s and the 30s in

619
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:19,390
Speaker 1: the U.S., there were these weird, like, endurance stunts that

620
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:22,250
Speaker 1: became massively popular. And we've all kind of heard them

621
00:30:22,430 --> 00:30:25,820
Speaker 1: a little bit. Like, in 1927— Charles Lindbergh had the

622
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,090
Speaker 1: transatlantic flight. Right. That's very emblematic and kind of best

623
00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:31,990
Speaker 1: case example of one of those, of this area. Yeah.

624
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: But people started competing all the time to see, like,

625
00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: how long they could do something and how far they

626
00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:42,180
Speaker 1: could push themselves. They were throwing dance marathons that would

627
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,300
Speaker 1: stretch on for weeks where couples could only take a

628
00:30:46,340 --> 00:30:49,050
Speaker 1: few breaks to eat or sleep or use the bathroom.

629
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:51,070
Speaker 1: And then they would have to go right back to dancing.

630
00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: That's been featured in a couple of movies. It was

631
00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:55,070
Speaker 1: in Happy Days, the TV show. And then there was

632
00:30:55,170 --> 00:30:58,730
Speaker 1: also in Dance. They shoot horses, don't they? There was also,

633
00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:01,990
Speaker 1: of course, endurance bowling tournaments because you just want to

634
00:31:02,050 --> 00:31:03,070
Speaker 1: bowl when you're bowling.

635
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:04,910
Speaker 2: This is what happens when you don't have social media.

636
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:05,990
Speaker 1: That's right.

637
00:31:06,010 --> 00:31:07,550
Speaker 2: You just do boring, dumb stuff.

638
00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: Instead of stopping to look at pictures of yourself doing stuff,

639
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: you just keep doing it for money.

640
00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:14,260
Speaker 2: Scrolling and scrolling.

641
00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:18,180
Speaker 1: They also had a very kind of famous weird one

642
00:31:18,220 --> 00:31:21,460
Speaker 1: called flagpole sitting, where men would climb to the top

643
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:25,719
Speaker 1: of flagpoles and sit there for weeks, sometimes months, to

644
00:31:25,780 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: set new records. There was also the Wrigley Ocean Marathon

645
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,790
Speaker 1: that was held off the Southern California coast in January

646
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:39,290
Speaker 1: of 1927, and participants swam 22 miles from basically L.A.

647
00:31:39,510 --> 00:31:42,430
Speaker 1: to Catalina Island, hoping to win a $ 25, 000 prize.

648
00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: Wow.

649
00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:49,460
Speaker 1: Which would be how much in today's money?

650
00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:55,690
Speaker 2: $ 27, 000. $ 27, 000, $ 25, 000, $ 150, 000, $ 300, 000.

651
00:31:53,910 --> 00:31:55,270
Speaker 1: Half a million dollars.

652
00:31:55,330 --> 00:31:55,950
Speaker 2: Holy shit.

653
00:31:56,110 --> 00:31:59,150
Speaker 1: Right? That money was put up by chewing gum titan

654
00:31:59,230 --> 00:32:02,750
Speaker 1: William Wrigley, who had just bought Catalina. And the whole

655
00:32:02,790 --> 00:32:04,780
Speaker 1: thing was like a publicity stunt.

656
00:32:04,820 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right?

657
00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: It's like, get out there any way you can. So

658
00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: he taps into this endurance frenzy. But also the prize

659
00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: money is so big that it itself generates publicity. So

660
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: that brings us to the man C.C. Pyle. That's short

661
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,940
Speaker 1: for Charles C. Pyle, although the joke at the time

662
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:25,700
Speaker 1: was his initials stood for Cash and Carry, which is

663
00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:30,750
Speaker 1: not funny. So clever. What are you talking about? But

664
00:32:30,810 --> 00:32:32,310
Speaker 1: it's just he's a man that's looking to make a

665
00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:35,250
Speaker 1: buck all the time. So Pyle is an Ohio native.

666
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:38,610
Speaker 1: He's tall. He has piercing blue-gray eyes. He's the son

667
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:41,620
Speaker 1: of a Methodist preacher. His parents hoped he'd follow in

668
00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:45,390
Speaker 1: his father's footsteps, but he actually goes into business instead.

669
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:49,430
Speaker 1: And he's clearly like a natural salesman. He starts out

670
00:32:49,470 --> 00:32:52,330
Speaker 1: selling clocks. Then he runs a travel agency. Then he

671
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: manages vaudeville theaters and tours. And then he finally strikes

672
00:32:56,620 --> 00:32:58,300
Speaker 1: gold as a sports agent.

673
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,100
Speaker 2: Damn.

674
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: The man has range. Actually, he's said to be America's

675
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,890
Speaker 1: first sports agent, representing A-list athletes at the time. Of course,

676
00:33:08,930 --> 00:33:11,430
Speaker 1: like your favorite football star, Red Grange.

677
00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:13,150
Speaker 2: Oh, the Grange.

678
00:33:13,210 --> 00:33:14,450
Speaker 1: The Granger, we called him.

679
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:15,050
Speaker 2: Love the Granger.

680
00:33:15,070 --> 00:33:20,010
Speaker 1: Red Grange was actually credited with popularizing the NFL. So

681
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:22,050
Speaker 1: God bless everybody who likes stuff like that.

682
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:24,340
Speaker 2: Thanks for nothing on Sundays when I have to sit

683
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:26,620
Speaker 2: there while Vince watches football.

684
00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: And you have to listen to grown men say things like,

685
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:31,460
Speaker 1: we just got to move that ball down the field. Right.

686
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,490
Speaker 1: By the 20s, Pyle is in his 40s. He's famous.

687
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:36,670
Speaker 1: And he would have been filthy rich if he didn't

688
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:40,550
Speaker 1: have the habit of absolutely constantly hemorrhaging money. He lives

689
00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:44,150
Speaker 1: very lavishly down to the expense of spats, cane, and

690
00:33:44,510 --> 00:33:48,310
Speaker 1: fancy suits he's always wearing. But he also craves fame

691
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: for himself and spectacle. He fancies himself the P.T. Barnum

692
00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:53,620
Speaker 1: of athletics.

693
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,620
Speaker 2: He would have killed it at podcasting.

694
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:56,060
Speaker 1: Yes.

695
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:58,580
Speaker 2: He would have fucking.

696
00:33:57,740 --> 00:33:59,620
Speaker 1: Slid right in here.

697
00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:00,780
Speaker 2: 2015, he would have been like, you know what I'm

698
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: investing in? Podcasting.

699
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to

700
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,780
Speaker 1: go speak on a panel. I'd love to speak on

701
00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: a panel.

702
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: That's all I've ever wanted.

703
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,870
Speaker 1: It's the most fun thing of all time. So in

704
00:34:11,070 --> 00:34:14,029
Speaker 1: April of 27, when the Wrigley Ocean Marathon is still

705
00:34:14,110 --> 00:34:17,550
Speaker 1: fresh in everyone's minds, it was actually just three months before.

706
00:34:18,180 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: CeCe Pyle holds a press conference announcing a foot race

707
00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:24,469
Speaker 1: across America that will start in L.A. and in New

708
00:34:24,489 --> 00:34:28,230
Speaker 1: York City and stop each night in a preselected town

709
00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:33,210
Speaker 1: along Route 66. Runners will complete a new eastward leg

710
00:34:33,410 --> 00:34:36,340
Speaker 1: of this race every day, and then they'll stop in

711
00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:39,860
Speaker 1: the evenings to eat and sleep in a furnished tent,

712
00:34:40,460 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: and if they complete that day's race the fastest, they'll

713
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,100
Speaker 1: collect individual daily prizes. So there's the overall big one,

714
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:51,700
Speaker 1: but then you're running for the money every single day.

715
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,060
Speaker 1: Pyle claims this race will last three months, and whoever

716
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: has the lowest cumulative time at the end is going

717
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: to take the grand prize. But he ups the ante here,

718
00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:05,209
Speaker 1: announcing there will be 10 prizes total. So second place

719
00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:06,810
Speaker 1: gets $ 10, 000, third place gets $ 5, 000, fourth gets $ 25, 000. But

720
00:35:06,830 --> 00:35:12,660
Speaker 1: this is like, $ 10, 000 is $ 200, 000 today.

721
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,140
Speaker 2: Wow.

722
00:35:13,140 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: $ 5, 000 is $ 100, 000 today. That's just worth it. Big money. Yeah. Yeah.

723
00:35:18,670 --> 00:35:21,390
Speaker 1: And it's basically shot at a huge payday at a

724
00:35:21,450 --> 00:35:24,529
Speaker 1: time that's really hard in this country for people. But

725
00:35:24,610 --> 00:35:29,230
Speaker 1: it does require running over 3,400 miles on foot. Jesus.

726
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: So it's basically Route 66 is 2,500 miles and then

727
00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: the additional to get to New York. Yeah. And that's

728
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: over scorching deserts, through steep mountains. Yes. Through all kinds

729
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: of weather. And to stay on schedule, Pyle expects the runners,

730
00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:49,470
Speaker 1: who will become known as bunioneers, to cover 50 miles

731
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:52,390
Speaker 1: a day. So daily double marathons.

732
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:56,259
Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Right. Like, no talk of insurance, right? Like,

733
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 2: he's just not responsible for anyone's injuries and death.

734
00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: Girl, there's not even talk of like good shoes. Yeah, right.

735
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: There's no talk.

736
00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:05,540
Speaker 2: There's no running shoes.

737
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,690
Speaker 1: It's just kind of a context like, can you come

738
00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:10,629
Speaker 1: and do this? The other thing is along Route 66,

739
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:11,930
Speaker 1: they're sharing the road with cars.

740
00:36:12,270 --> 00:36:12,689
Speaker 2: Oh, fuck.

741
00:36:12,969 --> 00:36:16,030
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not cleared out and there's no cops driving

742
00:36:16,050 --> 00:36:18,819
Speaker 1: in the front or whatever. And of course, no one

743
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: really knows anything about like long distance running at the time. Obviously,

744
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: no tennis shoes.

745
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,379
Speaker 2: How stupid it is. No.

746
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,569
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. How bad it is. You can see why

747
00:36:28,610 --> 00:36:32,250
Speaker 1: it's called the Bunyan Derby. But also at the time, even,

748
00:36:32,330 --> 00:36:37,130
Speaker 1: professionals give dire warnings. Writer Jeff Williams reports that, quote,

749
00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:41,350
Speaker 1: one prominent medical expert predicted that five to ten years

750
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:43,710
Speaker 1: could be shaved off of the runners' lives.

751
00:36:44,030 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 2: Wow.

752
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:49,700
Speaker 1: Right? It's not a good idea. Luckily, women aren't allowed

753
00:36:49,739 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 1: to enter.

754
00:36:50,260 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 2: No.

755
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:55,180
Speaker 1: Hooray. But any man who shells out $ 125 for the

756
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,090
Speaker 1: entry fee, which is $ 2, 500 in today's money, can participate. Anybody.

757
00:37:00,710 --> 00:37:03,589
Speaker 1: And it's basically a deposit because if a runner drops out,

758
00:37:03,790 --> 00:37:06,509
Speaker 1: they get $ 100 of that back. So they only really

759
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:10,890
Speaker 1: pay $ 25. And C.C. Pyle keeps the rest and puts

760
00:37:10,989 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: it like in a pot toward prizes and also toward operations.

761
00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: But he also has this plan to make even more

762
00:37:17,739 --> 00:37:21,410
Speaker 1: money off the spectacle and the event itself. Because he's

763
00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:25,530
Speaker 1: going to bring a traveling circus along the way. Jesus.

764
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:28,510
Speaker 1: And then it's set up at the daily stopping points.

765
00:37:29,070 --> 00:37:31,370
Speaker 1: And he plans to charge like the crowds that come

766
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:36,230
Speaker 1: to watch it admission. And then, of course, there's hot dogs, candy,

767
00:37:36,510 --> 00:37:36,810
Speaker 1: you know.

768
00:37:36,830 --> 00:37:40,089
Speaker 2: It sounds like someone's cocaine-fueled night and they just said

769
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:40,940
Speaker 2: yes to all of it.

770
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:43,980
Speaker 1: CeCe might have, like, tightened his spats up too tight,

771
00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:45,859
Speaker 1: then they got some big ideas in his head.

772
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,290
Speaker 2: CeCe stands for cocaine cowboy. And they fucking did it.

773
00:37:49,330 --> 00:37:52,310
Speaker 1: Cash and Carrie was what you called cocaine back in

774
00:37:52,330 --> 00:37:55,350
Speaker 1: the day. He spends a year promoting this race, so

775
00:37:55,410 --> 00:37:56,620
Speaker 1: he gets the word out.

776
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:56,819
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

777
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,500
Speaker 1: Then on March 4th, 1928, 199 men congregate at LA's

778
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,299
Speaker 1: Legion Ascot Speedway, which used to be right on Route 66.

779
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,299
Speaker 1: The men that show up are of all ages, of

780
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,089
Speaker 1: all nationalities, ethnicities, occupations. There are students. There's carpenters. There's

781
00:38:15,130 --> 00:38:18,590
Speaker 1: even an amateur wrestler. Some of them are experienced runners

782
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:21,210
Speaker 1: who have run marathons before, but most of them have

783
00:38:21,350 --> 00:38:22,859
Speaker 1: never done anything like this.

784
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

785
00:38:23,810 --> 00:38:26,790
Speaker 1: Including a 20-year-old named Andy Payne, who is a farm

786
00:38:26,830 --> 00:38:29,820
Speaker 1: boy from Oklahoma and a member of the Cherokee Nation.

787
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,660
Speaker 1: And he chose to run simply because he loves to run.

788
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: He shows up wearing shorts and leather shoes. Turns out

789
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,900
Speaker 1: to be the most common sense running outfit of anybody.

790
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: The other bunioneers have no idea what to wear or

791
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,180
Speaker 1: what's appropriate. One man shows up in a business suit,

792
00:38:47,890 --> 00:38:52,750
Speaker 1: another in red long johns, another one wearing logging boots.

793
00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:57,100
Speaker 1: So it's a little messy just from the kickoff. At

794
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:00,740
Speaker 1: 3 p.m. that day, a smoke bomb signals the start

795
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,770
Speaker 1: of the race. Not ideal. It doesn't bode well. The

796
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:07,750
Speaker 1: men set off running out of the speedway and swarming

797
00:39:07,770 --> 00:39:11,350
Speaker 1: into Los Angeles. Spectators line the streets to watch them go.

798
00:39:12,130 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: And ahead of them is a caravan of 61 race-related vehicles.

799
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,259
Speaker 1: They're carrying the supplies, the workers, the circus performers. and

800
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:22,820
Speaker 1: the animals.

801
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:24,900
Speaker 2: Like, it's a legit circus. Yeah, it's weird.

802
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,730
Speaker 1: Plus, there's members of the media, and there's even a

803
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:31,300
Speaker 1: mobile shoe repairman because they thought of everything.

804
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 2: Shoe shine guy.

805
00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. And C.C. Pyle is there too in his own

806
00:39:37,090 --> 00:39:40,890
Speaker 1: very fancily tricked out camper. He calls it the America.

807
00:39:41,230 --> 00:39:44,010
Speaker 1: It's incredibly over the top for that era. It costs

808
00:39:44,070 --> 00:39:48,650
Speaker 1: more than $ 25, 000 to build, which again is half a

809
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:49,510
Speaker 1: million dollars.

810
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:52,910
Speaker 2: Dude, it's all cocaine. It's all cocaine ideas.

811
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: It truly is because it's like, oh, just I'll spend

812
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,020
Speaker 1: it here and we'll make it on the other end.

813
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,620
Speaker 1: So this thing has blue mohair upholstery, hand-finished mahogany paneling,

814
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,020
Speaker 1: reclining chairs, a bed, hot and cold running water, air conditioning,

815
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: an observation deck up top, like It has it all.

816
00:40:11,260 --> 00:40:12,340
Speaker 2: Zillow gone wild over here.

817
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,460
Speaker 1: Yeah. So writer Jeff Williams says, quote, one paper referred

818
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,299
Speaker 1: to the America as the most pretentious land yacht ever built. And,

819
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: of course, CeCe Pyle loved that quote. So the first

820
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,620
Speaker 1: night of the race, the bunioneers run 17 miles, and

821
00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:32,530
Speaker 1: then they stop in Puente, California. It's outside of L.A., obviously.

822
00:40:33,050 --> 00:40:36,370
Speaker 1: Instead of getting the hearty dinner as promised, they get

823
00:40:36,489 --> 00:40:37,450
Speaker 1: basically gruel.

824
00:40:37,469 --> 00:40:37,609
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

825
00:40:38,290 --> 00:40:41,870
Speaker 1: And then they're all assigned a cot with scratchy sheets

826
00:40:42,350 --> 00:40:46,830
Speaker 1: in one of the 15 communal tents. So there's 15 tents.

827
00:40:46,850 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: There's 199 men. Don't make me do math.

828
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

829
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:53,980
Speaker 1: You can just imagine. They're just all shoved around.

830
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:54,219
Speaker 2: Yeah.

831
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: But also, these are not assigned cots, and they're not

832
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: assigned sheets either. Oh. It's like bad army, essentially. That's

833
00:41:02,219 --> 00:41:05,870
Speaker 1: supposed to good army. Well, yeah. In the army, you

834
00:41:05,910 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: get your own cot. Your own stuff. And they don't

835
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,180
Speaker 1: feed you gruel as far as I know, but please

836
00:41:11,219 --> 00:41:11,580
Speaker 1: write in.

837
00:41:11,780 --> 00:41:12,140
Speaker 2: Tell us.

838
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,860
Speaker 1: So essentially, they run for 17 miles all day long.

839
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: They come to lay down in a tent where there's

840
00:41:19,580 --> 00:41:22,710
Speaker 1: like a circus next door. So the circus and all

841
00:41:22,730 --> 00:41:26,350
Speaker 1: the people and all the things that like a carnival

842
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:29,830
Speaker 1: would sound like and be like is right outside. Plus,

843
00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:33,590
Speaker 1: Pyle has a full band playing, but he's also encouraged

844
00:41:33,870 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 1: the visitors to To try to mingle with the runners.

845
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,620
Speaker 1: So they're not done when they're done with the race.

846
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,259
Speaker 2: Oh, my God. They have to be like— They have

847
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: to do it all. Yeah.

848
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:44,460
Speaker 1: So the visitors, they can mingle with the runners, but

849
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:47,790
Speaker 1: they can also go see a two-headed chicken, a five-legged pig,

850
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:51,529
Speaker 1: a glass eater, a snake charmer. There's some belly dancers,

851
00:41:51,930 --> 00:41:54,930
Speaker 1: but they end up getting fired because they're too sexy

852
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:58,219
Speaker 1: for the family-oriented circus that C.C. Pyle was trying to

853
00:41:58,260 --> 00:41:58,739
Speaker 1: put together.

854
00:41:58,760 --> 00:41:58,830
Speaker 2: Shh.

855
00:41:59,620 --> 00:42:03,580
Speaker 1: Pyle's star client, Red Grange, is also there, as is,

856
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: and you'll remember this name, the corpse of Elmer McCurdy. Oh, wow.

857
00:42:08,110 --> 00:42:08,570
Speaker 1: No way.

858
00:42:08,770 --> 00:42:09,510
Speaker 2: Yes. Wow.

859
00:42:09,610 --> 00:42:12,969
Speaker 1: Because that was when that idea of, like, oh, here's

860
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:14,530
Speaker 1: this body.

861
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:14,630
Speaker 2: Yeah.

862
00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:17,870
Speaker 1: Like, here's this old prospector. An actual skeleton.

863
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:20,990
Speaker 2: In the kind that... So, what a weird, like, roundabout

864
00:42:21,050 --> 00:42:22,630
Speaker 2: way to get to an old episode.

865
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:23,030
Speaker 1: Right?

866
00:42:23,090 --> 00:42:23,210
Speaker 2: Yeah.

867
00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:24,969
Speaker 1: That's all I wanted to do was talk about my

868
00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: old story. But he had borrowed... McCurdy for the length

869
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,859
Speaker 1: of the race so that there would always be that

870
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,939
Speaker 1: exhibition of you can come and see this old guy.

871
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,739
Speaker 1: If you want to hear about what we're talking about,

872
00:42:35,860 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: it's episode 145. And it's our Halloween show.

873
00:42:38,780 --> 00:42:39,390
Speaker 2: Oh, weird.

874
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,010
Speaker 1: The live show at the Microsoft.

875
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 2: Oh, nice.

876
00:42:41,489 --> 00:42:43,489
Speaker 1: So this kickoff night is a very long one for

877
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:47,569
Speaker 1: the bunioneers. The next morning, they set out for Bloomington, California,

878
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:51,430
Speaker 1: which is 35 miles away. But now it's raining heavily

879
00:42:51,450 --> 00:42:54,219
Speaker 1: and it's cold. It only gets worse over the next

880
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:59,500
Speaker 1: few days as the runners scale the Cajon Pass. And

881
00:42:59,540 --> 00:43:02,819
Speaker 1: we've all driven from L.A. to San Francisco where it's

882
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,140
Speaker 1: this thing where it's just slowly but surely, incrementally getting

883
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,420
Speaker 1: steeper and steeper and the elevation gets higher and higher.

884
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: By day four, 70 men drop out of the race.

885
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: It leaves 130 runners, but many are already nearing their limits. Mm-hmm.

886
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,509
Speaker 1: And that's not great for CeCe because he needs every

887
00:43:21,570 --> 00:43:24,330
Speaker 1: cent he can muster to keep the whole thing afloat.

888
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: Every dropout means he has to return $ 100 to that person. And,

889
00:43:29,219 --> 00:43:32,380
Speaker 1: of course, the rainy days are affecting his ability to

890
00:43:32,420 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: draw the big crowd to the running circus.

891
00:43:34,739 --> 00:43:35,700
Speaker 2: Right, right.

892
00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:40,590
Speaker 1: Fortunately— He has enough seed money from the Highway 66 Association,

893
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:45,140
Speaker 1: which exists purely to promote Route 66. They have given

894
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: him $ 50, 000, which is almost a million dollars in today's money,

895
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,460
Speaker 1: for the promotion. But the prizes total $ 47, 000. And then

896
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: he has a very large logistics staff, performers, and then

897
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,700
Speaker 1: months of food and supplies to pay for. So all

898
00:44:02,739 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: that cash is basically immediately spoken for.

899
00:44:05,060 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

900
00:44:05,850 --> 00:44:08,770
Speaker 1: So within days of the race beginning, CeCe Pyle is

901
00:44:08,830 --> 00:44:12,140
Speaker 1: already making spending cuts, mostly, of course, at the expense

902
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,460
Speaker 1: of the bunioneers. Food rations are cut. The daily prizes

903
00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: just very quietly go away. And worse, he sometimes switches

904
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,710
Speaker 1: the designated stopping points to higher bidding communities at the

905
00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:28,589
Speaker 1: 11th hour. One day, this results in runners suddenly having

906
00:44:28,610 --> 00:44:33,860
Speaker 1: to reroute as they cross the Mojave Desert. completing 57

907
00:44:33,860 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: miles in scorching heat before the day is over.

908
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,220
Speaker 2: 57 miles in the Mojave Desert.

909
00:44:39,340 --> 00:44:41,020
Speaker 1: Yeah. And, like, how did they even do it?

910
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: How long is a marathon?

911
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: 24?

912
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Six. Fuck.

913
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,210
Speaker 1: Isn't it?

914
00:44:45,219 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds right. Six and a half.

915
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,529
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a. 4 in there somewhere. Oh, I've seen

916
00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:52,980
Speaker 1: it on the bumper stickers. 26.2.

917
00:44:52,980 --> 00:44:53,350
Speaker 2: 26.2.

918
00:44:53,350 --> 00:44:58,790
Speaker 1: Thank you. And find the four. Wait, do you run marathons, Molly?

919
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:04,580
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. A bunionier named Frank Johnson of Illinois remembers this, quote,

920
00:45:05,219 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: The nights were terrible. Each tent sounded like a hospital

921
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:11,950
Speaker 1: ward after a big train wreck. Men groaned and moaned

922
00:45:12,010 --> 00:45:14,529
Speaker 1: and many of them wept over their bruises and aches.

923
00:45:14,570 --> 00:45:18,190
Speaker 2: Your fascia is just like fucking throbbing.

924
00:45:18,290 --> 00:45:19,410
Speaker 1: You can't feel your feet.

925
00:45:19,590 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 2: Oh, my God. No.

926
00:45:20,410 --> 00:45:23,020
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah. Every time a man turned over during

927
00:45:23,060 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: the night, it hurt so bad his groans awoke everyone

928
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: near who happened to be asleep.

929
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

930
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,580
Speaker 1: So as they press on, they get into Arizona on

931
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,500
Speaker 1: day nine. Then they make it to New Mexico on

932
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:42,700
Speaker 1: day 21. The Texas panhandle on day 32. This is— so

933
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,180
Speaker 1: there's—men are just doing it. They're just getting it done.

934
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

935
00:45:45,380 --> 00:45:47,460
Speaker 1: Like anything for that money. And, of course, there's a

936
00:45:47,540 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: growing number of injuries and illnesses.

937
00:45:50,140 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

938
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,739
Speaker 1: People are breaking the arches of their feet. Their Achilles

939
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,259
Speaker 1: tendons are snapping. There's intense sunburns, of course. Men are

940
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: losing toenails. Of course, there's huge blisters.

941
00:46:02,420 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: The nipple. The nipple situation. You know what I'm talking about?

942
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,340
Speaker 1: But if you're wearing a business suit, you're all protected

943
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,900
Speaker 1: because you've got your undershirt. Andy Payne, the Oklahoma farm boy,

944
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: who's delightfully emerged as a frontrunner, comes down with a

945
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 1: nasty bout of tonsillitis. It's a dangerous condition in a

946
00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: pre-antibiotics world, which is where we are. But he doesn't quit.

947
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,339
Speaker 1: He just struggles through tonsillitis. Like sometimes I don't get

948
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,580
Speaker 1: off the couch to get the food I ordered at

949
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: the front door because I'm like, I just need like

950
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:34,660
Speaker 1: five more minutes.

951
00:46:35,219 --> 00:46:39,580
Speaker 2: Not because of tonsillitis and running fucking two marathons a day.

952
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:42,700
Speaker 1: Not because my Achilles tendons have been snapped. Just because

953
00:46:42,739 --> 00:46:43,700
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know.

954
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to.

955
00:46:44,860 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: What about my phones? So meanwhile, there's no place for

956
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,500
Speaker 1: the runners to go at the end of the day.

957
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,910
Speaker 1: The sleeping situation gets worse and worse. As I said,

958
00:46:54,930 --> 00:47:00,020
Speaker 1: the bedding's communal. And it's also not washed. On top

959
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:01,940
Speaker 1: of which, no one's really showered.

960
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: They couldn't have had like high quality shower facilities.

961
00:47:05,060 --> 00:47:07,779
Speaker 1: No, because Cece invested all that in the little like

962
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:10,100
Speaker 1: shoot the thing and blow up the balloon and get

963
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: a prize.

964
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: In his own weird RV.

965
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: Yes, where he's like touching mohair and just loving life.

966
00:47:15,540 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: Thank God I paid for this extra for this blue mohair.

967
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,790
Speaker 2: Because otherwise this would have been a whole mess.

968
00:47:19,810 --> 00:47:21,430
Speaker 1: Because this is what I can bite down on when

969
00:47:21,450 --> 00:47:24,990
Speaker 1: they come to kill me. Okay, so what adds stress

970
00:47:25,010 --> 00:47:28,210
Speaker 1: to all that filth? is the ever-present threat of new

971
00:47:28,270 --> 00:47:31,870
Speaker 1: illnesses and new injuries, including ones coming from the fact

972
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:34,569
Speaker 1: that the bunioneers are running on active roadways, which is

973
00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:38,570
Speaker 1: very dangerous in bad weather and in the higher mileage

974
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:42,350
Speaker 1: running days that stretch past sunset. Jesus.

975
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:42,950
Speaker 2: Yeah.

976
00:47:43,090 --> 00:47:46,770
Speaker 1: So Route 66 at this time is not well lit, obviously.

977
00:47:47,350 --> 00:47:50,230
Speaker 1: And then car headlights were much weaker at the time. Right.

978
00:47:50,750 --> 00:47:53,870
Speaker 1: So many bunioneers are hit by cars. Oh, my God.

979
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,460
Speaker 1: A man named Mike Bays of California breaks his leg

980
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: because he's hit by a car. Another man from California

981
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,259
Speaker 1: named Pat Mahoney is knocked unconscious and he's found in

982
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:07,830
Speaker 1: the middle of the road by other runners after he's

983
00:48:07,870 --> 00:48:11,629
Speaker 1: hit by a car. They shake him awake, which please

984
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:15,750
Speaker 1: don't ever do that to anybody that you find hit

985
00:48:15,810 --> 00:48:18,250
Speaker 1: by a car in a road. But that's what they do.

986
00:48:18,969 --> 00:48:20,190
Speaker 1: They stand him upright.

987
00:48:20,210 --> 00:48:21,150
Speaker 2: I know what you're going to say and I don't

988
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:23,069
Speaker 2: want to fucking hear it. And he keeps running?

989
00:48:23,610 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: They're pleasantly surprised when he starts to run again like

990
00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:27,940
Speaker 1: nothing's happened.

991
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: Okay.

992
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: The Great Depression was a terrible thing that happened to

993
00:48:32,060 --> 00:48:34,540
Speaker 1: many people. So also there's dehydration.

994
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:37,260
Speaker 2: Yes, they were not drinking water.

995
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:40,510
Speaker 1: People didn't like water back then. They resented water back then.

996
00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:43,190
Speaker 1: There's often not a place to stop and get water.

997
00:48:43,210 --> 00:48:46,690
Speaker 1: The best option is usually a soda at one of

998
00:48:46,770 --> 00:48:49,290
Speaker 1: the sporadic gas stations on Route 66.

999
00:48:49,290 --> 00:48:49,489
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

1000
00:48:50,380 --> 00:48:53,899
Speaker 1: One runner named George Rahein is known within the group

1001
00:48:53,980 --> 00:48:57,180
Speaker 1: as the singing Dutchman. He's German and he likes to

1002
00:48:57,340 --> 00:49:00,230
Speaker 1: belt out songs while running. He thinks he has a

1003
00:49:00,250 --> 00:49:03,230
Speaker 1: smart workaround for having no water. He drinks from the

1004
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:07,190
Speaker 1: water buckets at gas stations that are supposed to service radiators.

1005
00:49:07,330 --> 00:49:07,710
Speaker 2: No.

1006
00:49:08,350 --> 00:49:11,550
Speaker 1: One day he drinks from a bucket and doesn't realize

1007
00:49:11,690 --> 00:49:13,029
Speaker 1: it's filled with gasoline.

1008
00:49:13,090 --> 00:49:13,310
Speaker 2: What?

1009
00:49:13,850 --> 00:49:17,510
Speaker 1: He becomes violently ill, of course. This list of horrors

1010
00:49:17,530 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: just goes on and on at different points in the Southwest,

1011
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,020
Speaker 1: white racists descend on Route 66 because there are black

1012
00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:29,379
Speaker 1: bunioneers that are running in this race, and they come to, like,

1013
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 1: chase them and basically violently torment them. In other cases,

1014
00:49:35,290 --> 00:49:40,270
Speaker 1: the runners are dealing with hostile animals. Frank Chavez of California,

1015
00:49:40,330 --> 00:49:43,210
Speaker 1: for example, he slips into a pair of red swimming

1016
00:49:43,290 --> 00:49:46,509
Speaker 1: trunks one day to beat the desert heat. He draws

1017
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:50,009
Speaker 1: the attention of a loose bull who then chases him.

1018
00:49:50,690 --> 00:49:53,410
Speaker 1: One sports writer reports, quote, for a few minutes that day,

1019
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: Frank made the best time that's been made during the race.

1020
00:49:56,660 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: Jesus.

1021
00:49:57,340 --> 00:50:03,100
Speaker 1: It's all becoming cartoonishly like wacky races. By mid-April 1928,

1022
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:05,860
Speaker 1: a month in, and the gang has accumulated over a

1023
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,870
Speaker 1: thousand miles of running— but they're down to just 81

1024
00:50:09,870 --> 00:50:14,830
Speaker 1: runners out of 200. They leave Texas beleaguered and beaten.

1025
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:19,330
Speaker 1: They arrive in a cold, wintry Oklahoma on day 36.

1026
00:50:19,330 --> 00:50:22,820
Speaker 1: But for farm boy Andy Payne, this is a really

1027
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,299
Speaker 1: exciting stretch of the race because he's overcome his tonsillitis,

1028
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: and he's maintained his position at the front. He's a

1029
00:50:30,380 --> 00:50:34,100
Speaker 1: hometown hero by this point, so other Oklahomans are reading

1030
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: about him in the newspapers, and there's such an eruption

1031
00:50:36,739 --> 00:50:40,290
Speaker 1: of pride and joy that spectators go and run alongside

1032
00:50:40,350 --> 00:50:41,930
Speaker 1: him and beg for autographs.

1033
00:50:42,370 --> 00:50:43,370
Speaker 2: Okay, Forrest Gump.

1034
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:48,190
Speaker 1: I mean, right. So on April 19th, 1928, it's day 47.

1035
00:50:48,190 --> 00:50:52,379
Speaker 1: The runners leave Oklahoma. They cut through Kansas and end

1036
00:50:52,420 --> 00:50:56,790
Speaker 1: the day in Missouri. By St. Louis, just 70 runners

1037
00:50:57,030 --> 00:51:00,469
Speaker 1: are left. Meanwhile, CC Pyle's money problems are, of course,

1038
00:51:00,510 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: getting worse, but now for an unexpected reason, because in

1039
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,779
Speaker 1: certain cities, the traveling circuses have generated such big crowds

1040
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: that they're robbed. Like, basically everyone in town... goes to

1041
00:51:13,219 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: the circus, and then people go rob the empty houses

1042
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: because they know everyone's not home.

1043
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:19,940
Speaker 2: Fuck, come on.

1044
00:51:20,219 --> 00:51:24,020
Speaker 1: And then separately, pickpockets descend on the circus itself.

1045
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:24,620
Speaker 2: Wow.

1046
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: So they know there's just kind of like every time

1047
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,030
Speaker 1: they stop, all the people in town will very innocently

1048
00:51:30,170 --> 00:51:32,370
Speaker 1: be like, an event, and then it's like, here we go. Okay.

1049
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:35,190
Speaker 1: In a town where they never got a chance to

1050
00:51:35,230 --> 00:51:36,270
Speaker 1: pickpocket before.

1051
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:36,550
Speaker 2: Right.

1052
00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:39,489
Speaker 1: This gets written up in the papers, and word starts

1053
00:51:39,530 --> 00:51:42,509
Speaker 1: spreading to the towns farther down the line. Mm-hmm. So

1054
00:51:42,590 --> 00:51:45,870
Speaker 1: suddenly towns are deciding that hosting this thing is more

1055
00:51:45,890 --> 00:51:49,790
Speaker 1: trouble than it's worth. The race publicly has made C.C.

1056
00:51:49,830 --> 00:51:54,569
Speaker 1: Pyle easy to track by his creditors. He owes one

1057
00:51:54,690 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: Illinois bank around $ 40, 000, which is $ 800, 000 today. And the

1058
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,020
Speaker 1: bank is dead set on collecting. They figure that Pyle's

1059
00:52:04,060 --> 00:52:08,219
Speaker 1: luxury camper is a great start. So what they don't

1060
00:52:08,260 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: know is that the America— took a tumble off a

1061
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,180
Speaker 1: bridge in Texas.

1062
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:12,419
Speaker 2: What?

1063
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: It now has smashed windows and a hole in the side.

1064
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: It still runs as a car, but it doesn't look great.

1065
00:52:19,980 --> 00:52:23,140
Speaker 1: Pyle refuses to surrender it, and then he goes on

1066
00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:25,819
Speaker 1: the lam as the race continues. Oh, he's just out.

1067
00:52:26,140 --> 00:52:30,060
Speaker 1: He's just gone. Meanwhile, the runners exit Route 66 in

1068
00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:34,340
Speaker 1: Chicago on Day 63. They run through Illinois into Indiana

1069
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 1: on Day 64. Then they're in Ohio on Day 68.

1070
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: Briefly into Pennsylvania, day 73. I mean, they're making it

1071
00:52:42,180 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: across America.

1072
00:52:43,060 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: I'm impressed, honestly.

1073
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. But their bodies are breaking down. They look haggard, unkempt.

1074
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:54,779
Speaker 1: They're so hungry that one bunionier named Glisto Omec of

1075
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,020
Speaker 1: Italy is handed a candy bar by a spectator, and

1076
00:52:58,140 --> 00:53:00,340
Speaker 1: he eats it, including the wrapper.

1077
00:53:00,460 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.

1078
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,660
Speaker 1: Bro. I'm so sorry. Yelp.

1079
00:53:07,469 --> 00:53:08,430
Speaker 2: It's like a cartoon.

1080
00:53:08,450 --> 00:53:12,910
Speaker 1: I haven't read through this book. That was the best

1081
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: reveal of all time. I'm so sorry. Yeah, that's like,

1082
00:53:15,700 --> 00:53:17,779
Speaker 1: that should be the new Snickers commercial. It's like when

1083
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,700
Speaker 1: you're super hungry.

1084
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,049
Speaker 2: When you're running two marathons a day.

1085
00:53:21,180 --> 00:53:24,610
Speaker 1: Yes. Why don't they make, it's like, you know, Botan

1086
00:53:24,650 --> 00:53:27,810
Speaker 1: rice candy. That candy where you eat the wrapper because

1087
00:53:27,870 --> 00:53:28,510
Speaker 1: it's rice paper?

1088
00:53:28,650 --> 00:53:28,830
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1089
00:53:28,910 --> 00:53:32,300
Speaker 1: They should do that with candy bars. On May 16th,

1090
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,180
Speaker 1: Day 74, the remaining runners cross into New York. This

1091
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,010
Speaker 1: is the final state. They make it.

1092
00:53:38,060 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 2: I'm impressed.

1093
00:53:38,940 --> 00:53:39,739
Speaker 1: It's incredible.

1094
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1095
00:53:40,219 --> 00:53:44,259
Speaker 1: CeCe Pyle, meanwhile, he's still hiding. But while he's off

1096
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,879
Speaker 1: the grid, he goes into full fundraising mode. He doesn't

1097
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,020
Speaker 1: have any hope of turning a profit at this point,

1098
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: but he needs to pay his staff. He needs to

1099
00:53:52,500 --> 00:53:55,510
Speaker 1: lock down the prize money. And he convinces someone named

1100
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:59,490
Speaker 1: Tex Rickard. There have been four Madison Square Gardens built.

1101
00:54:00,090 --> 00:54:03,930
Speaker 1: Tex Rickard built the third one. And he convinces Tex

1102
00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:07,230
Speaker 1: to let him conclude the race at Madison Square Garden

1103
00:54:07,390 --> 00:54:09,630
Speaker 1: instead of the preplanned Yankee Stadium.

1104
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:10,170
Speaker 2: Got it.

1105
00:54:10,350 --> 00:54:13,589
Speaker 1: So everyone's like, hey, you scratch my back and I'll

1106
00:54:13,610 --> 00:54:16,390
Speaker 1: stop feeding gruel to these men who are dying of running.

1107
00:54:17,330 --> 00:54:20,540
Speaker 1: This change, like so many others that Pyle has made,

1108
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,140
Speaker 1: of course hits the runners hard because it adds a

1109
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: surprise 20 more miles to this journey that they think

1110
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: is almost over. Like just one more marathon before you stop.

1111
00:54:32,380 --> 00:54:35,190
Speaker 1: And half of those 20 miles, they're supposed to run

1112
00:54:35,469 --> 00:54:38,010
Speaker 1: inside Madison Square Garden. No.

1113
00:54:38,570 --> 00:54:39,630
Speaker 2: Leave them alone.

1114
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:40,609
Speaker 1: Run around.

1115
00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:41,910
Speaker 2: God damn. Okay. Okay.

1116
00:54:42,340 --> 00:54:46,339
Speaker 1: Pyle hopes to charge the public $ 1. 25 each to come

1117
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 1: and watch this, which would be, in today's money... $ 150.

1118
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 2: $ 25. Great.

1119
00:54:53,050 --> 00:54:56,649
Speaker 1: The bunioneers are furious, but they're also days away from

1120
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:59,850
Speaker 1: the race's end, and they want the money. Obviously, they've

1121
00:54:59,890 --> 00:55:04,109
Speaker 1: stayed in this long. On May 26th, day 84, with

1122
00:55:04,170 --> 00:55:08,290
Speaker 1: just 55 runners remaining, 55 men made it through this.

1123
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:08,690
Speaker 2: A lot.

1124
00:55:09,130 --> 00:55:12,510
Speaker 1: They run into Madison Square Garden for this final leg.

1125
00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:15,250
Speaker 1: The crowd is just a fraction of what the venue

1126
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: can hold and, of course, what CeCe Pyle hoped for.

1127
00:55:18,020 --> 00:55:22,380
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is like, I did that 16 nights in

1128
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,620
Speaker 1: a row. He didn't really have a lot of time

1129
00:55:24,820 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: to promote that it would be at Madison Square Garden

1130
00:55:27,100 --> 00:55:30,300
Speaker 1: because it was such a last-minute change. There's about 2,000

1131
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:34,810
Speaker 1: people there. It can hold 15,000. One reporter calls it, quote,

1132
00:55:34,989 --> 00:55:36,250
Speaker 1: the flop of the century.

1133
00:55:36,270 --> 00:55:38,609
Speaker 2: That can't be true, but okay.

1134
00:55:39,930 --> 00:55:43,049
Speaker 1: Very true. You're like, did you hear about the Great Depression?

1135
00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:45,970
Speaker 1: Because it's been a long century for these poor people.

1136
00:55:46,850 --> 00:55:50,450
Speaker 1: At the end of that day, those 55 runners have

1137
00:55:50,610 --> 00:55:56,299
Speaker 1: finished this race, covering more than 3,400 miles of the

1138
00:55:56,340 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: United States on foot. The first place winner is Andy Payne.

1139
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,540
Speaker 1: He ran the race in 573 hours, 4 minutes and

1140
00:56:03,540 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: 34 seconds. Jeff Williams writes in his book, quote, he

1141
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,420
Speaker 1: and his father celebrated the victory the next day by

1142
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: taking a sightseeing excursion of New York City, a walking tour.

1143
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,009
Speaker 1: You know, those fitness people, they just never stop.

1144
00:56:20,030 --> 00:56:20,930
Speaker 2: They never quit.

1145
00:56:21,010 --> 00:56:24,450
Speaker 1: So winning this race actually really does change Andy Payne's life.

1146
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:28,710
Speaker 1: He becomes a national star. He's honored by Congress. And

1147
00:56:28,750 --> 00:56:32,529
Speaker 1: today in Oklahoma, half marathons and 5Ks are still run

1148
00:56:32,590 --> 00:56:35,990
Speaker 1: in his honor. Wow. But some of the men quite

1149
00:56:36,090 --> 00:56:40,950
Speaker 1: literally can't stand still. And they are seen still jogging

1150
00:56:41,010 --> 00:56:45,410
Speaker 1: around Madison Square Garden days after the finish. So they've

1151
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: been running for months for like so long that they're

1152
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,700
Speaker 1: just like in this mode that they can't snap out of.

1153
00:56:52,380 --> 00:56:56,620
Speaker 1: A bunionier from Arkansas named Wildfire Bill Thompson, who finished

1154
00:56:57,020 --> 00:57:00,610
Speaker 1: 50th place, says, quote, When you've been through torture like this,

1155
00:57:00,910 --> 00:57:04,069
Speaker 1: it's a dangerous thing to stop agony all at once.

1156
00:57:05,110 --> 00:57:07,950
Speaker 1: A little while ago, I said to myself, I missed something.

1157
00:57:07,969 --> 00:57:11,370
Speaker 1: And then I said, oh, yes, I miss those stabbing pains.

1158
00:57:11,730 --> 00:57:12,310
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.

1159
00:57:12,430 --> 00:57:14,629
Speaker 1: When all the misery is gone, you kind of feel

1160
00:57:14,690 --> 00:57:15,750
Speaker 1: lonesome and lost.

1161
00:57:16,090 --> 00:57:16,530
Speaker 2: Wow.

1162
00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:17,150
Speaker 1: End quote.

1163
00:57:17,650 --> 00:57:18,090
Speaker 2: Okay.

1164
00:57:18,350 --> 00:57:23,390
Speaker 1: Wildfire Bill. Cece Pyle, meanwhile, increasingly becomes known as Corns

1165
00:57:23,450 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: and Calluses Pyle instead of Cash and Carries.

1166
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:27,250
Speaker 2: C.C.

1167
00:57:27,310 --> 00:57:28,510
Speaker 1: Corns and Callas' pile.

1168
00:57:28,590 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: That's so insulting.

1169
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,900
Speaker 1: It takes him, it's kind of a good slam, it

1170
00:57:31,930 --> 00:57:35,460
Speaker 1: takes him about a week post-race, but he does manage, thankfully,

1171
00:57:35,540 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: to scrounge up that cash to pay Andy Payne and

1172
00:57:38,980 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: the other winners. Then just one year later, C.C. Pyle

1173
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:47,660
Speaker 1: hosts another cross-country race with a slightly different route, and

1174
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: by its finish, he is once again bankrupt, and those

1175
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,140
Speaker 1: winners do not get their prizes.

1176
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:54,300
Speaker 2: Oh, no. Yeah.

1177
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:58,270
Speaker 1: Pyle's bank account and his reputation takes a huge hit,

1178
00:57:58,930 --> 00:58:01,990
Speaker 1: and the nation sinks into the Great Depression. So this

1179
00:58:02,010 --> 00:58:05,030
Speaker 1: was almost like the prequel to it, the late 20s.

1180
00:58:05,340 --> 00:58:08,700
Speaker 1: But you will not keep CeCe Pyle down because within years,

1181
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: he's on the rebound. Oh, wait, sorry. We have pictures.

1182
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 2: Oh, it's been coy.

1183
00:58:13,580 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: Boys, gather round. I'm going to tell you about a

1184
00:58:15,220 --> 00:58:17,650
Speaker 1: little race I see us all running. I won't be

1185
00:58:17,690 --> 00:58:20,460
Speaker 1: running it. You'll run it. Do you like gruel? I

1186
00:58:20,540 --> 00:58:21,180
Speaker 1: love gruel.

1187
00:58:21,220 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 2: Blue mohair. Picture it.

1188
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,580
Speaker 1: And belly dancers.

1189
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: Sexy belly dancers.

1190
00:58:27,020 --> 00:58:28,620
Speaker 1: Oh, also, here's Andy Payne.

1191
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: Okay, the winner.

1192
00:58:30,700 --> 00:58:32,740
Speaker 1: The winner. Kind of ironic his last name's Payne.

1193
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,020
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1194
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: And then that's what Madison Square Garden looked like when

1195
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: they all ran in there.

1196
00:58:37,580 --> 00:58:38,140
Speaker 2: All right.

1197
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:45,209
Speaker 1: Come down and see. These running zombies. So crazy. Okay.

1198
00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:50,370
Speaker 1: Within years, CeCe Pyle has rebounded And now he's managing

1199
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:54,010
Speaker 1: the Ripley's Believe It or Not show at the 1933

1200
00:58:54,010 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: Chicago World's Fair. Then he pivots to a radio career.

1201
00:58:58,380 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: In 1939, he dies of a heart attack when he's

1202
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:02,380
Speaker 1: just 56 years old.

1203
00:59:02,580 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: Wow.

1204
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:06,230
Speaker 1: Author Jeff Williams writes that through the Bunyan Derby, CeCe

1205
00:59:06,310 --> 00:59:10,450
Speaker 1: Pyle sought to create the, quote, mother of all endurance contests.

1206
00:59:10,810 --> 00:59:13,410
Speaker 1: Of course, whether he succeeded or not is up for debate.

1207
00:59:13,530 --> 00:59:15,610
Speaker 1: I'd never heard of this at all.

1208
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:16,260
Speaker 2: No.

1209
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: And I've heard of the dance contests, thanks to the Fonz.

1210
00:59:20,620 --> 00:59:23,420
Speaker 1: I've heard of flagpole sitting, like all those things when

1211
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,420
Speaker 1: they used to shove everybody in the phone booth.

1212
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,050
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. Like, I didn't think about how into

1213
00:59:28,110 --> 00:59:30,650
Speaker 2: this everyone was until you named them all together.

1214
00:59:30,670 --> 00:59:32,730
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a real trend.

1215
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:33,010
Speaker 2: Right.

1216
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:34,970
Speaker 1: And I think it was also just like a way

1217
00:59:35,010 --> 00:59:36,030
Speaker 1: for people to make money.

1218
00:59:36,330 --> 00:59:38,030
Speaker 2: Make money and be distracted.

1219
00:59:38,590 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: And today they call it reality television. Whether or not

1220
00:59:42,540 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: he did create the mother of all endurance contests is

1221
00:59:45,660 --> 00:59:48,140
Speaker 1: up for debate. But it is funny, and a pretty

1222
00:59:48,180 --> 00:59:51,060
Speaker 1: great quote from C.C. Pyle that he said back in 1928,

1223
00:59:51,060 --> 00:59:54,470
Speaker 1: we are just entering the golden age of the foot.

1224
00:59:54,490 --> 00:59:54,790
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1225
00:59:57,850 --> 01:00:01,170
Speaker 1: At CC Pyle. But today, as you and I both

1226
01:00:01,410 --> 01:00:05,910
Speaker 1: proudly celebrate Roots' 66th, 100th birthday. Why is that so

1227
01:00:05,950 --> 01:00:10,710
Speaker 1: hard to say? We also celebrate CC Pyle's unabashedly American

1228
01:00:10,770 --> 01:00:16,860
Speaker 1: passion for money and spectacle and shamelessness and bunions. And

1229
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: most importantly, we celebrate those 199 men who actually had

1230
01:00:19,980 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: the grit and to run across the nation chasing the

1231
01:00:27,340 --> 01:00:31,180
Speaker 1: American dream. And that's the story of the Bunyan Derby.

1232
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 2: Wow. I had never heard of that and I never

1233
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:35,650
Speaker 2: want to hear it again.

1234
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:41,050
Speaker 1: But Molly basically saw that the 100th anniversary of Route

1235
01:00:41,050 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: 66 was coming up and then Did you find this

1236
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:45,690
Speaker 1: story or did Maren?

1237
01:00:45,850 --> 01:00:46,870
Speaker 2: This is a Maren find.

1238
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:50,270
Speaker 1: Wow. So then Maren was like, hey, here's a little something.

1239
01:00:50,290 --> 01:00:52,550
Speaker 1: Can we make anything of this? And Maren's like, yes,

1240
01:00:52,690 --> 01:00:54,730
Speaker 1: I can. Isn't that amazing?

1241
01:00:54,750 --> 01:00:55,030
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1242
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:55,490
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1243
01:00:55,530 --> 01:00:57,630
Speaker 2: That's another classic of, I think you've told a few

1244
01:00:57,830 --> 01:01:02,570
Speaker 2: like marathon stories that are just like classic tales of

1245
01:01:02,750 --> 01:01:08,670
Speaker 2: fucking endurance and whoa. Yeah. Why? And why? Whoa and why?

1246
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:11,750
Speaker 1: Whoa and why? What are you doing? Sit down.

1247
01:01:12,090 --> 01:01:14,510
Speaker 2: Go take a nap. Take a nap.

1248
01:01:14,730 --> 01:01:17,630
Speaker 1: What are you running from? Get a therapist.

1249
01:01:19,350 --> 01:01:21,130
Speaker 2: Well, great job.

1250
01:01:21,710 --> 01:01:22,870
Speaker 1: That was our little marathon.

1251
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:26,330
Speaker 2: That was our marathon. That is this podcast.

1252
01:01:26,570 --> 01:01:30,910
Speaker 1: Marathons are, you know, it's subjective. And lots of things

1253
01:01:30,950 --> 01:01:33,530
Speaker 1: are hard. Especially podcasting.

1254
01:01:33,790 --> 01:01:36,150
Speaker 2: That's right. And the bunions. And bunions.

1255
01:01:36,670 --> 01:01:37,900
Speaker 1: And staying sexy.

1256
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,260
Speaker 2: And don't get murdered.

1257
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:40,460
Speaker 1: Goodbye.

1258
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:42,330
Speaker 2: Elvis, do you want a cookie?

1259
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,030
Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production.

1260
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:53,950
Speaker 2: Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

1261
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:56,110
Speaker 1: Our consulting producer is Kate Schellenbach.

1262
01:01:56,210 --> 01:01:57,930
Speaker 2: Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

1263
01:01:58,250 --> 01:02:00,990
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is

1264
01:02:01,130 --> 01:02:02,290
Speaker 1: Aristotle Acevedo.

1265
01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:04,610
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.

1266
01:02:04,810 --> 01:02:07,410
Speaker 1: Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.

1267
01:02:07,610 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 2: Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com and follow the

1268
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 2: show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.

1269
01:02:13,380 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1270
01:02:16,780 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1271
01:02:18,300 --> 01:02:21,340
Speaker 2: Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for

1272
01:02:21,380 --> 01:02:23,820
Speaker 2: My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit

1273
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,610
Speaker 2: the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.