Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I am
Speaker 1: your host Quest Love. Uh, this is Team Supreme.
Speaker 2: Why are you? How are you how doing.
Speaker 3: Something?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 1: I want to know? How many rooms you have in
Speaker 1: your house? Because are you in like a nineteen room mansion?
Speaker 4: Stop saying that this is my house? Just the last
Speaker 4: time we spoke, I was somewhere else.
Speaker 2: And but you have more artwork than any human I know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've met met my parents, so yes, I do.
Speaker 4: I got I'm surprised I don't got a payre of
Speaker 4: our guests on my wall somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see.
Speaker 3: Your dad gave me one of yourself, one of your
Speaker 3: aunt Deanna and your dad and Melbour and Lindsay.
Speaker 2: Oh mystery voice? Yeah, okay, okay, who was that mystery voice? Hey? Steve?
Speaker 2: How are you? Bro?
Speaker 5: You know, if you delete something off an iTunes playlist,
Speaker 5: all you gotta do is hit Apple X and it
Speaker 5: all comes back app You know what Apple X? You
Speaker 5: know command X? I mean help your brother anyway?
Speaker 4: Oh delete?
Speaker 5: I leave rally one day in fourteen years, Steve, Yeah,
Speaker 5: somehow a playlist gets to.
Speaker 1: You in the history of it Tonight Show, Sugar Steve
Speaker 1: has been a constant presence almost every day, and the
Speaker 1: one day he leaves, things don't fall apart.
Speaker 4: I kept things together, so yes, that things don't fall apart.
Speaker 6: What's up everybody dot.
Speaker 3: My song title.
Speaker 4: It was a good album title as well.
Speaker 2: Fan Tickelo what's that brother? What's going on? Bro? What's
Speaker 2: going on? Miss Jane? It's very nice to meet you.
Speaker 3: Lovely meeting you.
Speaker 6: Yeah, my my aunt she was a big fan of
Speaker 6: your records and I would always go to her house
Speaker 6: and like play your stuff, and I just always remember
Speaker 6: just your album covers. You just always look really classy,
Speaker 6: really pretty, and just always just just a really really
Speaker 6: classy singer. So it's really an honored to sit with
Speaker 6: you today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's my pleasure, and I appreciate you educating you.
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is an extraordinary
Speaker 1: singer and artists. Basically our guest today. You know, I
Speaker 1: was introduced to her via my father's illustrious record collection.
Speaker 1: A lot of jazz in there, and of course you
Speaker 1: know the Black Jazz label, and I will say that
Speaker 1: all the albums of our Guest Today and her former husband,
Speaker 1: the Doug carn definitely played a major role in my
Speaker 1: personal growing up. Basically just some of the best what
Speaker 1: I call spiritual jazz. I mean, there's so many titles
Speaker 1: for it. Some people say fusion, spiritual jazz. I don't
Speaker 1: know what you call it. But there's also a point
Speaker 1: in the seventies when our Guest Today became part of
Speaker 1: the incredible stable of artists that contributed to the sound
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, helm by Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff with
Speaker 1: such legendary songs as you know, free Love and Don't
Speaker 1: let It Go to Your Head and my Love Don't
Speaker 1: Come Easy, and then of course you know the immortal
Speaker 1: close and then close. Not to mention my song was
Speaker 1: the Flame of Love. Like, there's so much to talk about,
Speaker 1: but you know, April is Jazz Appreciation Month, and basically
Speaker 1: our guest Today she makes jazz, she makes R and B,
Speaker 1: she makes disco. She does it all and she's worked
Speaker 1: with all the legends. All the legends work with her,
Speaker 1: Kenny Gamble, Leon Huf, Jerry Butler, Eddie Laverert, Philip Simon
Speaker 1: or o'garner, Billy Paul, text To Janzell, The Temptations, Grove Washington, Junior,
Speaker 1: James Dir George Do just everyone, ladies and gentlemen, please
Speaker 1: welcome so overdue our guests, the incomparable Gene car Into,
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, thank you for coming. How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm wonderful. How's everybody doing well?
Speaker 2: Doing well?
Speaker 1: We're great massive fans of yours and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I thank you for doing this. You know, with a
Speaker 1: lot of our guests of late, just how the music
Speaker 1: industry is built mostly celebrating, you know, a certain type
Speaker 1: of mainstream artists and really not giving light or shine
Speaker 1: to artist of I mean, I don't want to sound
Speaker 1: like the old grumpy music lover, but you know a
Speaker 1: lot of artists that have substance or something extra to give.
Speaker 1: You really don't read that much, and I don't recall
Speaker 1: ever like reading in depth interviews with you at all.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm so familiar with your work, but
Speaker 1: you know, you don't get to see your artists in
Speaker 1: some of these mainstream publications that do music. So I
Speaker 1: thank you for finally granting us the just the honor
Speaker 1: of getting to interview you. So I'm gonna ask a
Speaker 1: lot of questions. Number one, Miss Karen, could you tell
Speaker 1: me your first musical memory.
Speaker 3: My first musical memory, perhaps, Oh, I guess in church
Speaker 3: greater amount Calvary Baptist Church, maybe singing solo in front
Speaker 3: of the adult choir. I must have been four then,
Speaker 3: because I remember I think the song must have been yeah,
Speaker 3: because I think Mahelia Jackson had done it one of
Speaker 3: these mornings, one of these mornings home, going home to
Speaker 3: live a God. And I was just a little kid,
Speaker 3: you know, But I think that might have been my
Speaker 3: first public memory. And I did a lot of stuff
Speaker 3: at I remember a lot of stuff at home that
Speaker 3: I would do when somebody would visit us. My mother
Speaker 3: said I would give them a concert. He said. I'd
Speaker 3: put on my ballet slippers and I'd stand in a
Speaker 3: plia position with my hands like this, and I give
Speaker 3: them a concert if they, you know, if my folks
Speaker 3: asked me to.
Speaker 2: So that that was just a typical occurrence, because you
Speaker 2: hear that a lot.
Speaker 1: You hear about like Cecil Franklin waking up Aretha Franklin
Speaker 1: at three in the morning, like entertainment guests like saying
Speaker 1: something for them.
Speaker 2: But so your parents were like that a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I didn't mind, you know, So, yeah,
Speaker 3: they were cool like that.
Speaker 2: What city were you born in?
Speaker 3: I was born in Columbus, Georgia. I was in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Okay. It's weird, like a lot of.
Speaker 1: Artists that represent Philly International, in my mind, they're always
Speaker 1: from Philadelphia, even though they just record for a Philadelphia label.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's kind of a yeah.
Speaker 3: I've always been a part time Philadelphia, well for fifty
Speaker 3: years now.
Speaker 2: So you live there currently right now? You still live.
Speaker 3: There half the time here and half and the rest
Speaker 3: in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, so you never lost touch with your your
Speaker 2: home roots or anyth that those things? No, No, So,
Speaker 2: having been raised in the church, especially with down South,
Speaker 2: how does like, what is your relationship with secular music?
Speaker 2: I know that for there's a lot of generation generational
Speaker 2: Blacks that grew up in households in which like secular
Speaker 2: music is somewhat taboo or not allowed in the household.
Speaker 2: Was your household that sort of that way or.
Speaker 3: You know, I've learned that that's the case with a
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of singers. But thank goodness, It
Speaker 3: wasn't the case at my house because my dad loved music,
Speaker 3: you know, big band, New Orleans jazz, you know, preservation jazz,
Speaker 3: R and B. So I was never pigeonholed where music
Speaker 3: was concerned. I started collecting records, you know, with the
Speaker 3: little record player in the little box with the little
Speaker 3: snap on there. I started collecting records that I guess
Speaker 3: spy ish, and they never they never limited this, you know,
Speaker 3: the records I could buy.
Speaker 6: What was some of the records you were buying at
Speaker 6: that time?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Well, my dad had a record store on
Speaker 3: Auburn Avenue.
Speaker 2: It was with.
Speaker 3: A cab company and a moving company and an employment agency,
Speaker 3: so all one, yeah, in one building, and I yeah.
Speaker 3: It was right down the street from Big Bethel Baptist Church,
Speaker 3: and it was two blocks down from Ebeneza Baptist Church.
Speaker 3: And so I got you know, I got to sell
Speaker 3: records too, because my brother and I would come and
Speaker 3: you know and work for my dad. Sometimes I was dispatcher,
Speaker 3: you know, for the cab company, and then sometimes I
Speaker 3: saw records and it you know, it was just a
Speaker 3: whole plethora of activity that we got to do. But
Speaker 3: I don't know, I think I think selling records was
Speaker 3: the most fun for me because if somebody comes in
Speaker 3: and asks for a record that we didn't have, I
Speaker 3: had to write down the artists and and my dad
Speaker 3: would pick it up at the at There were one
Speaker 3: stops where the record stores would you know they got
Speaker 3: the uh Manu pressed records from. I think then they
Speaker 3: had a pressing plant in Canton, Georgia, and and that
Speaker 3: that's how we you know, that was the chain of
Speaker 3: command for for for doing records. I think that was
Speaker 3: the most fun, the most fun growing up. And it
Speaker 3: was down the street from the Royal Peacock. It was
Speaker 3: like two doors down from the Royal Peacock. So when
Speaker 3: artists would come to perform the Peacock, I would slip
Speaker 3: out and go see their soundchecks because the owner of
Speaker 3: the Peacock was, you know, a friend of my dad's.
Speaker 3: In fact, I remember talking to Ruth Brown and telling
Speaker 3: her that I saw her do a sound check because
Speaker 3: her son saying he was he's he's a he was
Speaker 3: a guitar player a few years ago on one of
Speaker 3: the nighttime shows and he had this amazing voice. Because
Speaker 3: he did a demo that I eventually recorded, and so
Speaker 3: Ruth Brown and I got to talk because he put
Speaker 3: her on the phone and I told her, you know,
Speaker 3: I remember you, you know when when Mama Dotter mean
Speaker 3: was you know, it was a big song for her,
Speaker 3: and she loved it. She absolutely loved the fact because
Speaker 3: I was I was a little kid. Wow, Okay, wondering,
Speaker 3: aren't I?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, this is literally what I was about.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you mentioned. For the longest, I couldn't
Speaker 1: figure out the proper title. So whenever I whenever people
Speaker 1: ask me about my record collection, I never knew the
Speaker 1: proper title of those dealers were called one stops. But oftentimes,
Speaker 1: like when people ask like how do you collect so
Speaker 1: many records? I think they think that I go out
Speaker 1: and actually purchased like individual like two thousand records where
Speaker 1: now you know, a lot of those owners of those
Speaker 1: one stops either they're widow widows or you know, or
Speaker 1: their family don't know what to do with them. So
Speaker 1: usually there's like thirty or forty thousand pieces lying around
Speaker 1: and then maybe a guy like me will purchase it
Speaker 1: if it seems interesting enough and that sort of.
Speaker 3: Thing, so it can get to them before the British
Speaker 3: come because they can.
Speaker 2: Everyone, yeah, come to.
Speaker 3: America every year to you know, get the great records.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, Japanese dealers, British people like every place,
Speaker 1: but the United States really treasure is like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean there's some people in the United.
Speaker 2: States, but for the most part, But that's.
Speaker 4: Also interesting measures you know, how we are treasures sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're disposable country. So okay, So that makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense to me because normally when our guests
Speaker 1: come on this show, the common denominator is that a
Speaker 1: lot of guests on the show are DJs. And that's
Speaker 1: how at least the producers that we've had on the show.
Speaker 1: So the fact that you've worked in the record store
Speaker 1: explains a lot of your you know, of your illustrious
Speaker 1: range as far as like the world of jazz, the
Speaker 1: world of soul, the world of blues, like all the
Speaker 1: music that you sing.
Speaker 4: Does it also mean like your dad was a man
Speaker 4: because like record store owners were the man in the streets, right,
Speaker 4: Like they had a lot of respect and access and whatnot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, the street that my dad's business was on,
Speaker 3: Auburn Avenue, was the seat for that part of town
Speaker 3: of black business. In fact, okay, Gladys Knight's sponsor, mister
Speaker 3: Alexander TM Alexander was was his his realty company. He
Speaker 3: and mister Calloway's realty company was right down the three
Speaker 3: doors down from you know, from from my dad's business.
Speaker 3: And and I remember, you know, we knew from the
Speaker 3: inside that that TM was Gladys Knight's sponsor, and I
Speaker 3: knew of her and then I got to see her
Speaker 3: on Ted Max's original Amateur Hour. Yeah, yeah, I remember
Speaker 3: the first time we got a request for for their
Speaker 3: record because I had to write it down, you know,
Speaker 3: it was every beat of my heart. And on the
Speaker 3: on the b side was Darling, which was only the Pips. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: and Darling Darling was just the Pips and on the
Speaker 3: other side was Gladys Knight and the Pips. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: but I didn't know that was part of the hierarchy
Speaker 3: that you know, record company owners were the man in
Speaker 3: the street because there were businesses all the way down
Speaker 3: the street on the Auburn Avenue.
Speaker 2: How long did he keep that business up? What was
Speaker 2: that a majority of your life?
Speaker 3: Or I remember when I was twelve, that was when
Speaker 3: when I ordered Darling. I must have been twelve then
Speaker 3: and as a then up up to to a teenagehood,
Speaker 3: I performed at Big Bethel Baptist Church, which is, like
Speaker 3: I said, two blocks down from Wheat Street Baptist Church
Speaker 3: and one blockdown from Ebniza Baptist Church, which was Doctor
Speaker 3: King's church.
Speaker 2: So did you ever get to see him in person,
Speaker 2: to see who doctor King?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, yeah. In fact, my brother, doctor King, my
Speaker 3: dad had a cab stand, you know, at Big Bethel
Speaker 3: Baptist Church, and that's where you pay for slots for
Speaker 3: your cabs to sit, so that after church, after choir, rehearsal,
Speaker 3: all those places, all those events, people can come out
Speaker 3: of the church and the cabs waiting. They're like like
Speaker 3: they do at the airport.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: And but Doctor King could park anywhere. And my brother,
Speaker 3: my brother used to used to wait for him to
Speaker 3: park at when he would park at at Big Bethel,
Speaker 3: and he would walk him down to Blacks to Aveniza
Speaker 3: because he was you know, he was now he was
Speaker 3: the man. And I remember my brother was so thrilled
Speaker 3: because this was before a couple of weeks before the
Speaker 3: march on Washington, Okay, and my brother, I mean he
Speaker 3: was literally shaking when he told us about the fact
Speaker 3: that doctor King had told him where to meet them,
Speaker 3: to be on the bus to go to the march
Speaker 3: on Washington. So yeah, to answer your question.
Speaker 2: Wow, you got to see him, that's incredible.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, yes. After he he passed away, I
Speaker 3: did numerous misiness King would call on me to do,
Speaker 3: to do numerous activities, sing it, you know, on on
Speaker 3: ecumenical Sunday when they would you know, honor him and
Speaker 3: to sing, you know, at the church at Stetra. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: And she invited me to the second March on Washington.
Speaker 1: Your vocal style like you have a very very rich,
Speaker 1: rich rich tenor yes, you've can sing the highest of
Speaker 1: the highs and the lowest of the lows. Who was
Speaker 1: your inspiration as far as like, h your your singing style?
Speaker 2: Who did you gravitate towards?
Speaker 3: Oh? It was different periods of my life, you know.
Speaker 3: I was influenced by by various and sundry singers and
Speaker 3: horn players and keyboard players. I remember seeing Aretha. She
Speaker 3: was traveling with her father, Reverend C. L. Franklin, and
Speaker 3: she they were at the City Auditorium, which belongs to
Speaker 3: Georgia State now uh and and she she sang a
Speaker 3: song called in a Land Where Will Never Grow Old?
Speaker 3: And by then I was playing piano for church choirs.
Speaker 3: So I put that in my in my repertoire and
Speaker 3: always remembered her for that song, and I sung it
Speaker 3: at funerals from like I said, from time I was
Speaker 3: an early teenager till till I guess a couple of
Speaker 3: years ago staying at a funeral as well.
Speaker 2: So you were just the go to person.
Speaker 3: I guess. But Atlanta was so full of wonderful singers
Speaker 3: whoa yeah, I was just one among so many extremely
Speaker 3: talented for.
Speaker 1: Were you at all somewhat hobnobbing or crossing paths with
Speaker 1: any other future legends that we might have known known
Speaker 1: of at the time period?
Speaker 3: Well, let's see, did you never think of it that way?
Speaker 4: Right? Or who started out? That's what I was just thinking,
Speaker 4: like when you were in Atlanta?
Speaker 2: Who?
Speaker 4: Who were the singers in Atlanta?
Speaker 3: Well, there were lots of blues singers, Okay, the tams
Speaker 3: as we stroll along to get the times, Oh oh
Speaker 3: that's the Times. But Atlanta, that's my uncle.
Speaker 2: Billie Billy Jackson.
Speaker 1: Billy Jackson who produced that song that's that's one of
Speaker 1: my uncles.
Speaker 3: Last night I did with with where Billy Paul performed.
Speaker 3: It was in London. The Times were on there, okay,
Speaker 3: but I think the Tams were an Atlanta group, but
Speaker 3: I gave them the wrong song.
Speaker 2: The Times of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Okay, the Times of Philadelphia and yeah, what kind of
Speaker 3: food do you think I am? Yeah, yeah, that's them.
Speaker 2: Yeah okay.
Speaker 1: But for you, though, like when did you? Was it
Speaker 1: a thing where you just out the womb singing or
Speaker 1: like what what how old were you when you've made
Speaker 1: the decision that this was going to be your profession,
Speaker 1: this was going to be your your calling.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I guess I never really made that kind of decision,
Speaker 3: because I do. I did sing, my mother said before
Speaker 3: before I could remember. I remember vaguely some of the
Speaker 3: little concerts I did for folks that would visit us,
Speaker 3: you know, relatives and stuff.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: And I remember being in the church choir and singing
Speaker 3: solo before the church choir. But I never made a decision.
Speaker 3: It was I guess it was.
Speaker 4: Even in college, right like even in college you were
Speaker 4: you were singing.
Speaker 3: It was made. The decision was made for me because
Speaker 3: I got scholarships, you know, for music scholarships and academic scholarship.
Speaker 3: The school that I chose, Mars Brown, I got a
Speaker 3: scholarship for academics and I got one a vocal scholarship,
Speaker 3: a music scholarship. So I was going to be doing
Speaker 3: that for the rest of my life. Whether I knew
Speaker 3: it or not, I never made a decision. I think
Speaker 3: it was just God.
Speaker 1: I hear another thing that we have in common that
Speaker 1: you and I would have been former Juilliard students.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we had a different calling. So what was
Speaker 2: your decision to not go to Juilliard.
Speaker 3: I fell in love with Doug carn and we eloped
Speaker 3: to Hollywood and got married and that's when we.
Speaker 2: Owe you guys, I did that.
Speaker 3: You well, no, we were no, we were late teens,
Speaker 3: but we started the family, you know. I was twenty Okay, wow,
Speaker 3: So you had that that kind of fate as well.
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, I was at least My dad planned on
Speaker 1: me going to either Juilliard or Curtis.
Speaker 2: He wanted me to be in classical music because he
Speaker 2: thought that.
Speaker 1: Was that's what folks thought respectable, irrespectable, our form.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I sang classically, you know, all the major
Speaker 3: Arias and you know the Messiah and seven Last Words,
Speaker 3: and and and so it was it was understood that
Speaker 3: I would probably teach music in a college.
Speaker 4: What is this Russian thing? I'm sorry, I know that's
Speaker 4: in there too. I did not know this about you
Speaker 4: that that started early on when you were younger too,
Speaker 4: the Russian singing.
Speaker 3: I we were on a in high school. We were
Speaker 3: on a in a special experimental program of program of
Speaker 3: study in high school, and our foreign language was Russian.
Speaker 3: So I took Russian all during high school. Then when
Speaker 3: I went to Morris Brown that was the first year
Speaker 3: they had a Russian course. So I did three years
Speaker 3: in high school and then two years at marsh Brown. So,
Speaker 3: and you speaking proficiently for me too? I used to.
Speaker 4: Same, you do, a mayor, you speak Russian proficiently.
Speaker 2: In the first grade. The only thing I remember now is.
Speaker 4: Okay, what did she say, a mire?
Speaker 3: What she said, dude?
Speaker 2: That was forty five years ago.
Speaker 1: The type of school I went to, we learned four
Speaker 1: or five languages we had to know, like from first
Speaker 1: to fourth grade, I was fluent in French, Russian, Spanish, Latin, English,
Speaker 1: and ebonics.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good answer. Yes, it is hot.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm just fascinated. Like most people take Spanish in French
Speaker 4: day whole life, they're still not proficient. Y'all take it
Speaker 4: for three four five years, and it's like.
Speaker 3: Yo, Well, I got a little proficiency in some languages
Speaker 3: because when when I perform in you know, in France
Speaker 3: or in Spain or or elsewhere, I would get get
Speaker 3: I had Burlet's books and cassettes, and I would learn
Speaker 3: to you know, to talk to the audience, introduce songs,
Speaker 3: uh through through my my books and my cassette tapes,
Speaker 3: so that, in fact, my my second husband thought I
Speaker 3: was fluent in Spanish and Russian and and and and
Speaker 3: and French and and he in fact, he's told people
Speaker 3: I was fluent in those other languages. But I could
Speaker 3: just you know, I could order food, I could introduce
Speaker 3: my songs. I could ask for directions, because I I
Speaker 3: didn't want to be anywhere where I was that compromised.
Speaker 3: So I always learned proficient, you know, just travel, travel
Speaker 3: French or travel Spanish.
Speaker 2: So you were always prepared.
Speaker 3: I tried to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, in in your high school years or you know,
Speaker 1: did you have any sort of alliances at all with
Speaker 1: like pop music or just modern soul music at all.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, I loved I loved R and B.
Speaker 3: In fact, I just found out yesterday from Laia that
Speaker 3: le Andrews was.
Speaker 2: Your father, my dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's amazinging.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my dad. That's not that.
Speaker 1: Actually, here here's here's here's a minor fun fact. We're
Speaker 1: jumping way into the timeline. But you know, I I
Speaker 1: he basically ushered me into show business because you know,
Speaker 1: by twelve I became his band leader. But I'll say
Speaker 1: that my very first professional gig, non nepotism.
Speaker 4: You Gene carn.
Speaker 1: Kaw, So you had you had a musical director named
Speaker 1: Donald Dumpson.
Speaker 3: Donald was was a sort of a prodigy. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: he could yet because when we do places like like
Speaker 3: Carnegie Hall and Avery Fisher Hall, I could throw in
Speaker 3: an aria because Donald was proficient at you know, he
Speaker 3: knew all the arias. In fact, I remember when Pavaratti
Speaker 3: came to Philadelphia, Donald was the pianist that he asked
Speaker 3: for when Donald Jompson was still.
Speaker 2: Is the man mister Dumpson? Absolutely, I was going to say.
Speaker 1: And so I went to the high school creative and
Speaker 1: performing arts.
Speaker 2: Now, the thing is when I when I.
Speaker 1: Thought about it this morning, that is highly that's a
Speaker 1: highly unusual request, Like I'm trying to figure out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I get I get miffed when my band asks of
Speaker 1: me to like let an established artist spit a hot
Speaker 1: sixteen or twenty four over so you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like blah blah blah's in the audience, let him get
Speaker 1: on the microphone.
Speaker 2: And yet all I remember was.
Speaker 1: That mister Dumpson was going to have three of his
Speaker 1: choir students and me and I think at the time
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be me and Christian McBride, but
Speaker 1: I think Christian couldn't make it, so only I could drum,
Speaker 1: and we were going to be like special guests. Were
Speaker 1: you did a I think we had to play free
Speaker 1: by Denise Williams Wow, and we backed you up?
Speaker 2: And I was.
Speaker 1: Thinking, like how that must have been an unusual request
Speaker 1: because I'm trying to figure out, like how did he
Speaker 1: how did he even.
Speaker 2: Make that happen?
Speaker 1: Like yo, okay, uh, miss carn I got you know,
Speaker 1: students at my high school, we're doing this gig. Can
Speaker 1: they come up and sing a song with you like
Speaker 1: you didn't have to say yes, and yet you did.
Speaker 3: I always welcome anybody owned to my mic.
Speaker 1: See that's really bad because even established rappers I won't
Speaker 1: let them.
Speaker 4: But she's a natural born educator too.
Speaker 3: That's personal. Then that's personal.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 3: Touche. But Donald did the same thing with Boys to Men.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Actually, at the time, Mark Nelson was one of the
Speaker 1: three Tamika Patten who at the time, like Tamika Patten
Speaker 1: was was you know, she's the not what still amazing singer,
Speaker 1: gospel singer. I believe that at the time she just
Speaker 1: signed to Manhattan Records when it was on Capitol and
Speaker 1: then wow, yeah yeah, Mark Mark Nelson, who was still
Speaker 1: in Boys to Men at the time, was the second singer.
Speaker 1: And uh, I believe for Dean Brown, who's like gospel
Speaker 1: legend singer extraordinaire, like she was the third singer. But
Speaker 1: I remember you you had a van. You picked us
Speaker 1: up from school. We remember hers and free all day?
Speaker 4: Is she picking you up from school?
Speaker 2: Why is jan Do you know whose car that was
Speaker 2: that van?
Speaker 4: Whose van was it?
Speaker 3: It was red, wasn't.
Speaker 7: It it was?
Speaker 2: I believe it's a red Yes, it was a red van.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was Deanna Williams car.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy now.
Speaker 3: Didn't I hear Deanna say that you used to be
Speaker 3: her assistant for her?
Speaker 2: I was, I am, Yeah, absolutely, we.
Speaker 4: Met, we met it, I am, that's where I met him. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for making that the most
Speaker 1: normal way of you telling that.
Speaker 2: Story, because yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: I just left it there.
Speaker 7: Thank you anyway, life, Yes, absolutely, but no, I want
Speaker 7: to thank you for that, like I've only I can say.
Speaker 2: You know you were You were my first gig. H
Speaker 2: Phil Simon was my second, and I think I forget
Speaker 2: my last gig was before I got a record deal.
Speaker 2: But you were definitely very encouraging, very nurturing. It was easy.
Speaker 3: You were not you alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got. I'm serious.
Speaker 3: This was not fuzzy.
Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1: You know, at that time, I think back when I
Speaker 1: was following my dad's path for me. You know, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna go to Juilliard.
Speaker 1: Like in his mind, he wanted me to be somewhere
Speaker 1: between like the next Bernard Purty, like the in demand
Speaker 1: session drummer.
Speaker 3: And pretty pretty purty, pretty.
Speaker 1: Pretty yeah, and basically in his mind like you know,
Speaker 1: if I, if I get a job with an orchestra,
Speaker 1: like if you're if you're good, then you can easily
Speaker 1: you know, you can make six figures a year, and
Speaker 1: you know you can work your way up to one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 6: Mere like it met to him, was like true, but
Speaker 6: now I'm watching letters, right.
Speaker 2: I was like, talk, I'm trying to make that a
Speaker 2: night like not a r Yeah. So, first of all,
Speaker 2: was your work with your former husband Doug? Was that
Speaker 2: your your first for ray and two like the Professional
Speaker 2: Singing World or were you recording before that or.
Speaker 3: That was my second foray if you will, because okay,
Speaker 3: after Doug and I when we eloped, we ended up
Speaker 3: in Hollywood in the same building, well complex. It was
Speaker 3: an apartment hotel complex. As Earth went and fire. They
Speaker 3: had come from Chicago. They made that sojourn west and
Speaker 3: we all lived in the same apartment hotel complex and
Speaker 3: everything surrounded the pool. It was hotel or it was apartment.
Speaker 3: You could stay for a day, could stay for a year.
Speaker 3: You had made service and the residence manager the guy's
Speaker 3: front desk had been on on gun Smoke, so most
Speaker 3: of the folks he let in there were entertainers, right, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I met everybody from Reverend Ike to In fact, he
Speaker 3: I subbed for his his piano organists he came to Atlanta.
Speaker 3: I was, I was. I was a teenager then, and
Speaker 3: I subbed for his his organist pianists when he came
Speaker 3: to Atlanta. You know they have those those tent things, Yeah,
Speaker 3: those revival revivals.
Speaker 1: Can you explain to our listeners who Reverend Ike was,
Speaker 1: because right about now there's like, yo, straight up, straight
Speaker 1: up okay, So are right now the only connection to
Speaker 1: Reverend Ike that most New Yorkers have is his former
Speaker 1: church is still way up in the heights, like right
Speaker 1: before the Bronx. And so whenever a venue like Radio
Speaker 1: City Music Hall is out of commission, then you're going
Speaker 1: to have to go to what was formerly known as
Speaker 1: Reverend Ike's Church, which is like this large, sprawling building
Speaker 1: that can hold about maybe seven to eight thousand people.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of weird.
Speaker 1: Like there was a point where Radio City Music Hall
Speaker 1: was shut down for like two months, so like in
Speaker 1: order to see like Adele or Bonnie Ver like you
Speaker 1: would have to go to the Bronx or to the
Speaker 1: Heights to go see them. At Reverend Ike's former church
Speaker 1: and people, you know, some of those photos are still up,
Speaker 1: so I would just listen to comments of them trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, like wait, are we in a black church?
Speaker 2: Like what right?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Why are we seeing like a rock show there? But
Speaker 1: can you explain who Reverend Ike was to those that don't.
Speaker 3: Know, Well, he was a angelust and his his philosophy
Speaker 3: was prosperity, a prosperity philosophy, and he traveled all over
Speaker 3: the country, uh, doing his his crusades, if you will,
Speaker 3: usually in in a big you know, in a big
Speaker 3: covered tent style, or sometimes they did him in large auditoriums,
Speaker 3: and I you know, everybody knew his name because he
Speaker 3: was just very flamboyant. In fact, he lived at our
Speaker 3: for a good part of a week in our complex,
Speaker 3: and so everybody got to see him with you know,
Speaker 3: he would come out with his guards, you know, and
Speaker 3: you have to walk the length of the pool to
Speaker 3: get to the front to the front office to go outside.
Speaker 3: He was a star. He was an oddity, if you will,
Speaker 3: because he you know, he had full length. I mean
Speaker 3: coats and stuff and and bodyguards and stuff.
Speaker 2: Was he a pimho? I mean I pictured Daddy rich Richard?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on a mega church level.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a real question of Meir? Was that a real
Speaker 4: question that you was a real question?
Speaker 2: Well? I meant because when I say photos of Reverend,
Speaker 2: I like his hair was laid back.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know he was fried died and laid
Speaker 3: inside and and he was very flamboyant.
Speaker 1: You were saying that your work with with Doug was
Speaker 1: your second, fore rade, what was your first as far
Speaker 1: as recording?
Speaker 3: Okay, Uh, Doug and I were Our whole philosophy was
Speaker 3: two to put lyrics to a lot of our favorite
Speaker 3: jazz classics.
Speaker 2: Vocalist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I knew all the melodies. I knew
Speaker 3: the intros, I knew the heads and the songs, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, I was staying with the you know, with
Speaker 3: the whole. These are our records, you know, home, so
Speaker 3: we put lyrics to those, to those classics acknowledgmental love, supreme.
Speaker 2: Wou'd you study the solos as well?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, I did the solos. Note for note for note,
Speaker 3: Wayne Shorter, who just passed away infinized his title tune
Speaker 3: of our first album, Wow, Horace Silver Peace, we put
Speaker 3: lyrics to Peace. In fact, Horrace put lyrics to Peace
Speaker 3: and Doug took it before we moved to New York.
Speaker 3: Doug took our version, went to New York to show
Speaker 3: Horace you know what we had done with it, because
Speaker 3: he liked to get permission. Andy Bay did the lyrics
Speaker 3: on on Horrace Silver's version of Peace.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you when when you do
Speaker 1: that do you have because I've heard like like Eddie
Speaker 1: Jefferson might have a version of a particular song and
Speaker 1: then like John Hendricks might have his version of a
Speaker 1: particular song. So right, So is like, once lyrics get
Speaker 1: applied to a song, are those the definitive lyrics or
Speaker 1: is there just a world? Is there a rule in
Speaker 1: jazz that a vocal easee artist can add their interpretations
Speaker 1: of what they think that song should be lyrically at least?
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know what the what the rule is,
Speaker 3: but I know on the credits Doug's name was added
Speaker 3: as you know, as writer. Okay, So I don't know
Speaker 3: what the rules are, but he wanted to give the
Speaker 3: Lee Morgan he was gonna we put lyrics to search
Speaker 3: for the New Land, right, Okay.
Speaker 4: This is this album with this beautiful afro with you
Speaker 4: and Jeanie.
Speaker 3: Is this the you know we took that picture? Oh no,
Speaker 3: not the not the one with Jeanie. But there was
Speaker 3: one of the it was a promo picture. I don't
Speaker 3: think it was an album cover. A promo picture we took.
Speaker 3: We took in a in a Japanese garden and it
Speaker 3: was in Philly. I'd love to know where that.
Speaker 4: Maybe it was in Fairmount Park at the Japanese House.
Speaker 3: Maybe Doug is ready to fly to to New York.
Speaker 3: Morgan was performing at Slugs, the small jazz club in
Speaker 3: the village that had peanuts shells on the floor. It
Speaker 3: was famous for that. And that was the week that
Speaker 3: Lee Morgan's wife and blew him away.
Speaker 4: Yes yeah, documentary please, yes, yes cool? Yeah, I know
Speaker 4: if you noticed that. Yeah, he said, he has one
Speaker 4: of the only people who took a photo of Helen. Helen,
Speaker 4: my dad's in a documentary. He has his photo and
Speaker 4: he is commentating in it because when Helen went to jail,
Speaker 4: she called him wow.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: Because the whole story about Helen Morgan is she didn't
Speaker 4: stay in jail for too long, even though she killed
Speaker 4: a man in front of a bunch of people.
Speaker 3: She sure had witnesses.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes she did, Yes she did.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, because I think Leon Thomas was singing on
Speaker 3: that gig, you know, creator as a master plan. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: because he did that fair the yodel thing.
Speaker 2: He would do, the yodeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know he said he learned that yodeling
Speaker 3: from listening to recordings of Pigmy rich African Pigmy rituals.
Speaker 3: What really, Yeah, that's what Leon told me.
Speaker 4: I've never heard us get credited for yodeling. I've never
Speaker 4: heard black people get credited for.
Speaker 3: The yodling that Leon banjo yodling. It wasn't. It wasn't
Speaker 3: in the mountains in West Virginia yodeling. It was. It
Speaker 3: was this yodling where at times it sounded like he
Speaker 3: was singing two notes, like like layla hathaway, can do hathaway? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 3: So his was not your your typical West Virginia yodling
Speaker 3: right under no circumstances. Yeah, it was almost. It was mystical.
Speaker 1: So at the time that you moved to Hollywood, you know,
Speaker 1: what are your impressions. You mentioned earth Wind and Fire
Speaker 1: I assume that this is the time that they also
Speaker 1: were working on Sweet Sweetbacks first album there very after
Speaker 1: Sweet Sweetback, or that when they signed the Columba.
Speaker 3: Was this was before Sweet Back, because their first album
Speaker 3: they Want Warner Brothers right for the first two albums,
Speaker 3: The Need of Love and earth Wind and Fire right.
Speaker 3: And one day I was rehearsing lyrics that Doug and
Speaker 3: I had put to infantize to one of the one
Speaker 3: of the tunes on maybe it was, I don't remember
Speaker 3: which song, but Maurice knocked on the door. We lived
Speaker 3: upstairs and everybody had a patio. Uh, and you know
Speaker 3: you never closed, you know, close your sliding class doors.
Speaker 3: And so Maurice introduced himself. Because this dand never recorded either.
Speaker 3: He introduced himself. He said, I heard the voice of
Speaker 3: an angel, and I followed it up the stairs and
Speaker 3: then he introduced himself, you know, to me.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: And he came back after Doug got home, and I
Speaker 3: told him you got to you got to meet, you know,
Speaker 3: meet my husband. And it was that meeting that made
Speaker 3: Maurice invite both me and Doug to record on the
Speaker 3: first two albums. At Sunset Sound. That was first studio
Speaker 3: I've ever recorded in because that was the only one
Speaker 3: I knew about. Doug has done an album on Savoy
Speaker 3: when he was a teenager, an organ album on Savoy
Speaker 3: Records when he was a teenager. But I never recorded
Speaker 3: before except there was Okay, there was an album that
Speaker 3: Maurris Brown did about choir. It's called Oh Clap Your Hands,
Speaker 3: and I would love to have a copy. You know,
Speaker 3: it's a thirty three and it was called old Clap
Speaker 3: your Hands. If anybody out there has you know, has
Speaker 3: a copy or.
Speaker 2: Just just already order, I got you.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you? That would that would complete my life.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, if I could.
Speaker 2: Get I come to you. Bruh, Jeane Brown confer anything.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, but that's what why Doug and I ended
Speaker 3: up recording Infinitized in Kelli, you know, in Hollywood at
Speaker 3: Sunset Sounds, because that was the studio at the time. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's where Maurice did those two albums.
Speaker 2: Did you guys own the Black Jazz label or.
Speaker 3: I've read that that Doug was president of Black Jazz Records.
Speaker 3: Gene Russell, a musician himself, started that label and Doug
Speaker 3: was approached by Jean for us to you know, for
Speaker 3: us to come and sign with them. Yes, he was
Speaker 3: the head of Black Jazz Records, and Black Jazz Records
Speaker 3: was a division of Ovation Records. Dick Shorey out of
Speaker 3: Chicago was the head of the parent company, Ovation Records,
Speaker 3: and Black Jazz was a you know, a custom label.
Speaker 3: So Doug never never owned it, and I ended up
Speaker 3: not signing with them because Russell offered both of us
Speaker 3: a contract. But but Doug thought, well, let's see how
Speaker 3: he treats him, because the like the first album, I
Speaker 3: think on subsequent pressings they put my name on it,
Speaker 3: but it was just Doug Corn infinized and subsequent pressing
Speaker 3: State featuring the voice of Gene Corn. Yeah, And Doug said, well,
Speaker 3: let's see how he treats me, and then you know,
Speaker 3: if this first record, you know, works okay, then you know,
Speaker 3: then I would I would sign. But we you know,
Speaker 3: we broke up and got divorced there, so but we did.
Speaker 3: We did three albums and then Doug did a population
Speaker 3: like after after I left the group when I went
Speaker 3: with because I went with Norman Connors performance wise, and
Speaker 3: I produced the vocals on all of his all of
Speaker 3: his his albums.
Speaker 2: That's how I.
Speaker 3: Got to work with and vocal coach Phillis, because Phillis
Speaker 3: used so many of my musicians. It was so cool,
Speaker 3: you know it was she didn't even even have to
Speaker 3: ask after a while, you know, my horn players. She
Speaker 3: she just loved, loved my musicians, and I got to
Speaker 3: work with her vocally. She said, Amir, you'll appreciate this.
Speaker 3: She said that she had no lower register. What until
Speaker 3: she heard Infinite. She said that let her know she
Speaker 3: had the developer and she did it on her own.
Speaker 3: She developed this lower register on her own. Yeah, she said,
Speaker 3: because there's a line and infantized and always keep them
Speaker 3: in your heart for love, well, teaching, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And she said that line from Infantized was her inspiration
Speaker 3: and her incentive to develop a lower register. And she
Speaker 3: really she did a great job because I worked with,
Speaker 3: you know, with her on all of the albums that
Speaker 3: Norman Connor has produced on her and and the ones
Speaker 3: that she sang on, uh, the songs that she sang
Speaker 3: on on Norman's albums.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you know when I when when we had
Speaker 2: those records, I was five six years old, so naturally
Speaker 2: I thought Norman Conness was the singer, not knowing like
Speaker 2: Michael Henderson all.
Speaker 3: The everybody did everybody.
Speaker 1: However, I got to ask you, now, were you there
Speaker 1: for the uh so Much Love sessions?
Speaker 3: Which song you're talking about?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: All right, so there's so one thing you're going to
Speaker 1: know about me is while people are into the hits,
Speaker 1: I'm a guy that's.
Speaker 2: In the filling. Yeah, I'm a cut filler guy.
Speaker 1: And so so Much Love is uh basically it's like
Speaker 1: buried at the end of side to when You Are
Speaker 1: My Starship, But it's basically him doing a drum solo,
Speaker 1: but he's also singing and kind of quasi yodeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't my dad's.
Speaker 1: Favorite song, but you know, I was a drummer back then,
Speaker 1: so I used to always play it. My dad was
Speaker 1: like it was still the point where it's like a
Speaker 1: mere no no much love, like no more that song.
Speaker 2: I can't take it much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so you gotta research this. We did a
Speaker 3: cover of.
Speaker 2: My Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's her name? Eleanor Mills. She was Stephanie's sister
Speaker 3: in law. Oh, fabulous singer. She did the She was
Speaker 3: you know slated to do the vocals on the song,
Speaker 3: Norman insisted on singing that first line, that first little
Speaker 3: section until till the only I guess that's a bridge.
Speaker 1: Maybe the second part Russell's Russell's.
Speaker 3: Exactly where Russell comes in. And you got to listen
Speaker 3: to that, and you'll now your dad didn't want you
Speaker 3: to listen to so much love right for you, Yeah,
Speaker 3: because your dad was saying that wasn't up to par
Speaker 3: for him, right right, exactly, your ad Well, of course
Speaker 3: you're dead visionary. So if you find that that tune, uh,
Speaker 3: Norman's cover of that tune he sings first, I thought
Speaker 3: he was just joking because it was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: you know, who are we going to get to sing?
Speaker 3: You know, first line pitchy is being kind okay, okay.
Speaker 3: It was comparable. And I love Quincy because first thing
Speaker 3: he told me when Stevie introduced me to to Quincy,
Speaker 3: Quincy said, uh, we were recording down the street from
Speaker 3: each other. Stevie came to see me in the studio
Speaker 3: and we walked down the street and Quincy was recording.
Speaker 3: This was in Burbank, maybe it was in Cali. And
Speaker 3: the first thing Quincy said to me, was our birthdays
Speaker 3: are a day apart. And I said, oh you so
Speaker 3: you're there by the IDEs of March because minus March
Speaker 3: fifteen and this was the fourteenth. Why thank you? Thank you.
Speaker 3: Laiah insisted that I keep celebrating for the whole month
Speaker 3: and just that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know.
Speaker 3: Hey, why not? Why not? Yeah? Yeah. Quincy did a
Speaker 3: section on a song that he produced on Somebody, and
Speaker 3: he and Norman were comparable two to each other, delivering
Speaker 3: a vocalow you gotta find you make me feel drend.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I will look for it. I wilso look
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: You know what it's not.
Speaker 1: It's just hitting me now that you mentioned your relationship
Speaker 1: to Maurice. Was the earth wind and fire connection the
Speaker 1: reason why it just hit me the first week I
Speaker 1: spent in when I moved to London. Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: DJ named Jarles Peterson. He played me.
Speaker 3: One of my favorite folks, one of my favorite.
Speaker 1: He's responsible for us getting a record deal, the Routes
Speaker 1: getting a record deal. Uh, you guys do a cover
Speaker 1: Mighty Mighty, I think on the Higher Ground album really
Speaker 1: hip jazz version of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was the album that it had some
Speaker 3: some of the stuff that was in the can, and
Speaker 3: Doug did all of that by himself after I left,
Speaker 3: you know, the group, and he found a ringer singer.
Speaker 3: Her name's Joyce Green. That was her doing the newer
Speaker 3: songs on the at Adam's Apple.
Speaker 1: Okay yeah, oh okay, but that's you on Revelation correct.
Speaker 3: Oh definitely. Like I said, some of the songs which
Speaker 3: he took off of the previous album I get it,
Speaker 3: previous three albums.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, time yeah, time, Time is running out is
Speaker 2: one of my all time favorite songs. I love this.
Speaker 4: This is really what we can play music on this podcast.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: I know I'm trying to.
Speaker 4: Keep up, like I'm a I'm hit mute and listening.
Speaker 4: Oh shout out, say everybody's listening. You know, just hit
Speaker 4: pause when you need to exact these records.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, Next we're gonna have to do playlists specifically
Speaker 1: for yes, all the songs you mentioned so at the time,
Speaker 1: and considering you a serious jazz singer or serious singer,
Speaker 1: I'm left with it. I'm left under the impression that,
Speaker 1: like serious jazz musicians try to make it happen in
Speaker 1: New York and New York sort of looks at l
Speaker 1: A as sort of like a joke when it comes
Speaker 1: to serious jazz musicianship I mean crusaders aside or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I know that the East Coast has a very
Speaker 1: snobby and you know it is that way with hip
Speaker 1: hop as well. Like we're more intellectual, more you know,
Speaker 1: strategic with our work.
Speaker 2: But I mean, for you.
Speaker 1: Getting getting to Hollywood, did you feel like, all right,
Speaker 1: I can make this work?
Speaker 2: Like like what were your goals?
Speaker 1: Was your goals to just be like the next Eravon
Speaker 1: or were you like, no, I want to be on
Speaker 1: the top of the charts, or what was your personal
Speaker 1: goals singing?
Speaker 3: I I just like to be challenged. I just like
Speaker 3: to you know, to sing horn lined and duel with
Speaker 3: a piano and stuff. So I never I never had
Speaker 3: a had a path or anything because because on the
Speaker 3: Earth went and fire stuff. I did the high high stuff.
Speaker 3: Because that was before Philip and before Jessica Jessica Cleaves,
Speaker 3: and you know, Patty and I decided, I guess it
Speaker 3: was one day at dinner we were saying, we're going
Speaker 3: to produce Jessica Cleves because she had the most beautiful
Speaker 3: voice on the planet, and so Patty inside said yeah,
Speaker 3: we're going to produce Jessica Cleves, and the whole dream
Speaker 3: just went down the drain because I understand she she
Speaker 3: was married to or partners with a with a drug
Speaker 3: dealer and that, and she you know, she inspired expired
Speaker 3: behind that. But she was the first Hi singer for
Speaker 3: Earth Wind and Fire because Jim Brown, you know, the
Speaker 3: football guy, managed Earth Wind and Fire and he managed
Speaker 3: Friends of Distinction, So he took Jessica out of Friends
Speaker 3: of Distinction and put her in the Earth Wind and
Speaker 3: Fire stones like keep your head to the sky and
Speaker 3: stuff that was right up Maurice's valley, you know, the spirituality.
Speaker 3: In fact, he showed me what all the symbols were
Speaker 3: on all their literature album covers, on the sleeves everywhere,
Speaker 3: and there must have been maybe a dozen of them.
Speaker 3: He said, well, everybody knows, you know, knows the interpretation
Speaker 3: of these, but there were four. He said, Now these
Speaker 3: four just you and I know. And he said, and
Speaker 3: we'll talk about these in Nirvana when I get there.
Speaker 3: We're going to have a big disguise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about the transition to you becoming
Speaker 1: your own artists? Where you're not working with Doug anymore
Speaker 1: and you're on your own. Can you talk about the
Speaker 1: process that glad you to start your solo career?
Speaker 3: Oh? Okay, Well, after the Revelation album, we moved to
Speaker 3: we moved to New York because we were getting offers
Speaker 3: for performances there. So we moved to New York and
Speaker 3: Doug and I were working at the Village Vanguard and
Speaker 3: Norman had just left Pharaoh Pharaoh Saunders and he was
Speaker 3: starting his own, his own group. He had his promo pictures,
Speaker 3: you know, and he came in in the Vanguard and
Speaker 3: I remember he gave me a picture and he said,
Speaker 3: I'm starting my own group. You know. After I I
Speaker 3: was totally through, you know, with Doug's situation because we
Speaker 3: split in New York. I was trying to side. I
Speaker 3: wasn't ready to go solo per se. I worked, I
Speaker 3: did a I did a short tour with Duke Ellington,
Speaker 3: and I wrote down three. He was looking for a
Speaker 3: high soprano for what became his last spiritual concert. Okay,
Speaker 3: A friend of mine and I sat down and we
Speaker 3: were trying to decide who I wanted to go with. Okay,
Speaker 3: the choices were Dad Jones and mel Lewis, Big Band,
Speaker 3: w Rossanroland Kirk oh Wow, and Norman Connors. So and
Speaker 3: I got in touch with with all of them, I
Speaker 3: think that. And now we're going to Russia somewhere in Europe,
Speaker 3: like in a week or two weeks. I didn't even
Speaker 3: have a passport at the time, and there was so
Speaker 3: much material I didn't think I could do it justice,
Speaker 3: so across them off. And then Rostan and and Dorothy
Speaker 3: his wife were good friends of mine and Dougs. So
Speaker 3: I wondered, if you know, you know how when a
Speaker 3: couple breaks up.
Speaker 2: Lat who from the who gets who want the kids?
Speaker 3: Who gets the friends?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: So I said, I don't know, you know, but Doroth
Speaker 3: Anne and I are still friends. She's amazing. So Norman
Speaker 3: Norman got it by default whise.
Speaker 8: Choice, Yeah, I agree, I agree, yeah, yeah, because because
Speaker 8: for vocals, you know, he became totally dependent on.
Speaker 3: Me to what voice, train them if need be, and
Speaker 3: take them in and and do. He would have the
Speaker 3: tracks done McKinley Jackson and did most of the arrangements,
Speaker 3: and he sometimes he would even ask if they could
Speaker 3: sound like dos and so can you make can you
Speaker 3: make him sound like like he wanted me to make
Speaker 3: eleanor Mills sound like me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, so he would want you tomorph or he would
Speaker 1: leave it up to you to decide the the vocal
Speaker 1: direction of each artist.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, because he would have the tracks done and
Speaker 3: he would tell me who who the singer was gonna be,
Speaker 3: and like like you do an instrumental arrangement, you know,
Speaker 3: you know your ranges and your transpositions for your various instruments,
Speaker 3: I would become familiar with the singer and know, you know,
Speaker 3: what to do with them melodically, okay, And a lot
Speaker 3: of the backgrounds and stuff I did anyway, because it
Speaker 3: was hard to find singers, you know too, to blend
Speaker 3: and all that jazz. So he just stack it, you know,
Speaker 3: And I learned stacking. In fact, Maurice White called it
Speaker 3: moulting because they were just starting to overdob you know
Speaker 3: when they yeah, when they did when they did the
Speaker 3: first two albums, the two albums I recorded on. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And I got to work with some wonderful folks, you know,
Speaker 3: Glenn Jones and and and Phyllis and and and gosh,
Speaker 3: so many and Michael Michael Michael Yeah, at rehearsal, he'll
Speaker 3: tell because I've done numerous states with him. Uh, and
Speaker 3: he would tell the the musicians to said, yeah, you
Speaker 3: gotta listen to with Carn because she taught men. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so that that was a good period. That was that
Speaker 3: was just a period of growth for me.
Speaker 4: You've mentioned this twice, but I just really need to
Speaker 4: know about how a session goes with Phyllis Hyman and
Speaker 4: how she takes direction and how what does that collaboration
Speaker 4: feel like.
Speaker 3: She gave everybody what for except me. She wouldn't even
Speaker 3: curse around me, and I never I never asked for that.
Speaker 3: But but I think, and I'm so grateful because because I,
Speaker 3: you know, I I just couldn't have you know, that
Speaker 3: would have been it. We wouldn't have been friends, you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: because she she could talk like a like a platoon
Speaker 3: of soldiers. Was tough, arry, very tough. But I was a.
Speaker 4: Feeling you didn't you didn't have too much conflict though.
Speaker 4: I feel like you were that woman.
Speaker 3: We never did. We never did.
Speaker 4: Carriot though, like you were the person I feel like
Speaker 4: that people went to that it was. It was never
Speaker 4: a beef with Gene Carn, like you're beating with Gene carn.
Speaker 3: How right now, I don't I don't be.
Speaker 2: That's good to know. Hey, I have a question.
Speaker 1: So you know this, this is sort of a paradigm
Speaker 1: shift for you, well, at least in the world of jazz,
Speaker 1: especially in the mid seventies and what you're seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of quote serious jazz musicians transfer to more adult
Speaker 1: contemporary sounds or that sort of thing. I mean, for
Speaker 1: Norman Connors to come from the world of Pharrell Sanders
Speaker 1: and whatnot and then start making pop hits. You know,
Speaker 1: was there any trepidation whatsoever in terms of like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're because I always you know, when you when you
Speaker 1: see the Motown story, you hear like the Funk Brothers
Speaker 1: talk about, like a man, we're serious jazz cats, and
Speaker 1: you know, we got to play this like pop music
Speaker 1: to pay our bills. And even with James Brown's cats,
Speaker 1: like those those guys thought that, you know, we're serious
Speaker 1: jazz musicians and you know the lost this pass good money.
Speaker 2: But on the side, we're doing jazz.
Speaker 1: So for you, was there any trepidation whatsoever or was
Speaker 1: it just a natural move like okay, it's it's time
Speaker 1: to to move to the middle at least left the
Speaker 1: center and see what we can do.
Speaker 3: Uh, no trepidation at all, because I since since I
Speaker 3: was a little girl, my dad loved the big bands. Okay,
Speaker 3: so if there were if there was a big band
Speaker 3: anywhere within one hundred miles of Atlanta, my dad, my
Speaker 3: brother and I we get in the car and we
Speaker 3: find that concert. So I loved, you know, and he
Speaker 3: took My dad was from New Orleans, so so jazz,
Speaker 3: you know, preservation jazz was you know, was a mainstay
Speaker 3: where he was concerned. We played a little piano by
Speaker 3: ear and stuff, and so it was. It was all
Speaker 3: There were no lines of demarcation with me or styles,
Speaker 3: styles of music or genres and with Norman Needing going
Speaker 3: from a from Pharaoh to to pop as you call it.
Speaker 3: It was that was during the fusion era. You know,
Speaker 3: Royeers was doing fusion. They were the godbothers of fusion.
Speaker 3: So it was it was just more growth and more stretching.
Speaker 3: For me, it was it was delightful because I never
Speaker 3: liked being him then.
Speaker 1: So was it new to suddenly hear yourself on on radio?
Speaker 1: Was that like a thrilling moment or was it just
Speaker 1: a shrug?
Speaker 3: Like, eh, whatever, Oh no, it was always thrilling. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I never listened to my product. I still don't listen
Speaker 3: to my product. What. I loved it when they played it.
Speaker 3: Because when you listen to your own stuff, do you
Speaker 3: proof listen?
Speaker 1: Only when it's time to make the next record, I
Speaker 1: will do a deep dive in like binge listen. But
Speaker 1: I don't listen to my music, just like for relaxation.
Speaker 3: Right, you don't do that, right?
Speaker 2: No, not really?
Speaker 3: So neither neither because because I'm proofing, you know, saying,
Speaker 3: oh I should have done this, I should have you know,
Speaker 3: I should have put three more background you know, stack
Speaker 3: three more backgrounds. Because one on my motown album, was
Speaker 3: it mon album? Yeah? Yeah, I did a this this
Speaker 3: tune written by Reverend Oliver wells uh. He wrote a
Speaker 3: spiritual tune for Earth Wind and Fire. They took him
Speaker 3: on a couple of tours. And I did thirty voices.
Speaker 3: I had the engineer to bring in choir risers and
Speaker 3: and I would imitate.
Speaker 2: Altos.
Speaker 3: Yeah what I did my own base, Yeah yeah. And
Speaker 3: I did some of the voices of the elderly ladies
Speaker 3: you know that wore the hats every stunt Sunday who
Speaker 3: had the big waybe Vibrato, the h Vibrato. I just
Speaker 3: remember it back, you know, And and the engineer said,
Speaker 3: this will not work because you're going to sound like
Speaker 3: thirty versions of yourself. I said, no, I have references
Speaker 3: all the way from my from twelve years old to
Speaker 3: put you know, to put down. Yeah, yeah, which was fun.
Speaker 3: See uh this what it wasn't on the Motown album.
Speaker 3: Come to think of it, it was I it's never
Speaker 3: been released, okay. It was a project that I did.
Speaker 3: It was a version of Lift Every Voice and Say
Speaker 3: that I did as a fundraiser for the Apex Museum,
Speaker 3: which is on Auburn Avenue down Well. It was technically
Speaker 3: across the street from where my father's business was, and
Speaker 3: a block and two blocks from from Evaneza Baptist and
Speaker 3: I did that for them. It was it was forty
Speaker 3: five when I did it, because I think I did
Speaker 3: it in eighty something. And then I went back to
Speaker 3: the studio and digitally remastered it. Yeah, it was no
Speaker 3: it's ax step first and then we did it as
Speaker 3: a as a CD and it was Lift Every Voice
Speaker 3: and sing and Julian Bond did a soliloquy on the
Speaker 3: flip side, talking about James Weldon Johnson and his brother
Speaker 3: Rosemond Johnson, who wrote the song that's where I had
Speaker 3: the thirty voices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, so I'm ready for the story.
Speaker 1: What brings you to Philly International? What's the steps that
Speaker 1: brought you there?
Speaker 3: Okay? Eddie Green, an amazing keyboardist from Philly, one of
Speaker 3: my favorite keyboardists, got in touch with me. This was
Speaker 3: when I was still recording and performing with Norman. Norman
Speaker 3: Connors got in touch with me and said that he
Speaker 3: he was calling me for getting in touch for Kenny
Speaker 3: Gamble and he wanted me to come to Philly and
Speaker 3: talked to you know, they wanted to talk to me
Speaker 3: about joining the label because I had been I had
Speaker 3: performed in Philly at the Bes You and places before that,
Speaker 3: you know, because although I wasn't a soloist as such,
Speaker 3: but I had an audience somehow, because I remember seeing
Speaker 3: Larry Maggott at a at an event. This was just
Speaker 3: before the pandemic, and he was talking about you know
Speaker 3: how I guess I had well, I know, I have pictures.
Speaker 3: I think he said he had pictures of when Patty
Speaker 3: came to sit in with me and Abie Leverte. So
Speaker 3: I went to Philly to the three oh nine, Uh,
Speaker 3: to the label Yeah yeah, oh we're they're doing Bio Pick,
Speaker 3: and we got to go there. They interviewed a lot
Speaker 3: of the former artists, and we did it in three
Speaker 3: oh nine, which is now a hotel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 4: I read went over the whole Oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because for a long time every time I
Speaker 3: passed by there, you know, first there was a big
Speaker 3: hole in the ground and I would just cry because
Speaker 3: you know, that was my history.
Speaker 4: And yeah, this is the recent documentary, right, this is
Speaker 4: the Sam polar Uh don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know when it's coming out. I think they're
Speaker 3: gonna that's what it is, yeah, because they're going to
Speaker 3: add some more to it. And strangely, when when I
Speaker 3: did my my interview, my my godson, Gamble's son, Kalise,
Speaker 3: his first born, was the camera guy. I'm proud of that,
Speaker 3: of course. Uh. But during my entire interview, I my
Speaker 3: voice trembled and and I thought it did and then
Speaker 3: I and I didn't realize that was really the case
Speaker 3: until we finished. They they put me in my car
Speaker 3: downstairs and I answered my phone and and the voice
Speaker 3: and the tremble was gone. So I don't know if
Speaker 3: there were visitations there or not, because because I was wondering,
Speaker 3: am I gonna feel teddy? You know? You know any
Speaker 3: of those Yeah, any of those folks that you know
Speaker 3: that I got started in the business with, you know,
Speaker 3: who were my buddies. So yeah, okay, what what was
Speaker 3: I answering? I digressed? No no, no, no, no, you okay.
Speaker 3: I get there to talk to meet with Gamble. It
Speaker 3: was on the night of an Ali fight ac everybody
Speaker 3: had left the building and we were going to talk
Speaker 3: for fifteen minutes, and Gamble was going to you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know how it's going to get there. But
Speaker 3: then I you know, I never I don't like fights,
Speaker 3: you know, boxing, any of that stuff, bustling, boxing and
Speaker 3: wrestling and stuff. Not my stick. So but we ended
Speaker 3: up talking through the whole match and and I dare
Speaker 3: say that was one of the best decisions I've ever made,
Speaker 3: because it was it was it was magic. It was magic.
Speaker 2: So what is the process now?
Speaker 1: I mean, at this time, you're joining the label in
Speaker 1: seventy six, when they're at you know, when they're at
Speaker 1: the true height of their powers.
Speaker 2: So what's the.
Speaker 1: I guess you know when you join is can he
Speaker 1: run us through? Like the process? Like is there an
Speaker 1: an r is there the person?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you deciding which songs you want to sing from them?
Speaker 1: Are they like, hey, we have a song for you.
Speaker 1: Are you allowed to say I don't like that one?
Speaker 1: Or you know, can we change this? Like how much
Speaker 1: leverage do you have in terms of you being an
Speaker 1: artist there? Or are you just on the conveyor belt
Speaker 1: of proven hip makers?
Speaker 3: Well it was there was total respect Gamble. Gamble respected
Speaker 3: my musicianship. And in the building there were the producers,
Speaker 3: the writers, you know mcdann and Whitehead, Dexter, Wan Cell,
Speaker 3: Linda Creed and Tom Bell whom we just lost. And
Speaker 3: when I get there, Gamble would tell me, you know,
Speaker 3: first of all, don't sing anything that you don't want
Speaker 3: to sing. Don't be goaded into you know, are persuaded.
Speaker 3: You know, you know what works for you, you know
Speaker 3: what what fulfills you, you know what works with your philosophies.
Speaker 3: And so I would go to they will have written
Speaker 3: stuff for you, like McFaddens my that they they would
Speaker 3: present their songs with magic I mean they were. They
Speaker 3: were fabulous dancers and pulling the flowers out of the sleeves.
Speaker 6: They were selling it.
Speaker 3: They were, they were a riot. I just adore them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and each of the producers who had written for you,
Speaker 3: composers who had written for you, in it their songs,
Speaker 3: and and you know, I'm there for probably a month
Speaker 3: maybe more, just doing songs, and and I over recorded,
Speaker 3: so there's still stuff in the can, maybe a couple
Speaker 3: of albums in the can. Because and when the tunes
Speaker 3: that that Kenny and Leon wrote for me, when we
Speaker 3: first started, they were in the in the room, you know,
Speaker 3: in the boardroom while I, you know, while I did
Speaker 3: the did the songs, while I recorded the song. After
Speaker 3: that they let me do the recordings. And then either
Speaker 3: they bring in we'd bring in Barbara and Evett and
Speaker 3: and Carla the sweeties, uh right, to do the backgrounds,
Speaker 3: or I would stack the backgrounds. And when I when
Speaker 3: I was finished, I would taken in the office and
Speaker 3: let you know, let Kenny or call them in the
Speaker 3: in the in the studio and let them them hear,
Speaker 3: you know, what they what I'd done on this song,
Speaker 3: and and give me a critique. And it and it
Speaker 3: went like that.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite songs on uh your Philly debut
Speaker 1: record was a no laughing matter?
Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What like, so, what what are your memories of just
Speaker 1: that first album?
Speaker 3: Like it was it was an adventure. I remember the
Speaker 3: tunes that Dexter did were all experimental.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about him as a producer, because I
Speaker 1: don't think many people know that. Yeah, Dexter Jel was
Speaker 1: really like a futuristic I always felt like being under
Speaker 1: that that umbrella of Philly International almost limited him a
Speaker 1: bit because what I knew of what he was capable of, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, he really wanted to be like afro futurist,
Speaker 1: damn your son raw level of yes, experimentation, but they
Speaker 1: they honed them.
Speaker 2: Back a little bit.
Speaker 1: But if you listen to like a lot of the
Speaker 1: solo stuff on his records, you can see that. But
Speaker 1: he described him as like as a producer and a musician, Dexter.
Speaker 3: Was is a visionary, truly a musical visionary because you
Speaker 3: remember songs like life on Mars. Yes, he's been He's
Speaker 3: been telling telling the world that there's a life on
Speaker 3: Mars for what fifty years now?
Speaker 2: Right right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, his song should be played for all the launchings
Speaker 3: should be a part of the music that they that
Speaker 3: the astronauts here when they go into outer space. He
Speaker 3: was just just, what is such a genius. It's amazing, Like, Okay,
Speaker 3: when when they did when he and Cynthia Biggs did
Speaker 3: Nights over Egypt, Cynthia did the research on that over
Speaker 3: in the East, there once lived a girl. She then
Speaker 3: down the nile. He came with a smile. She was
Speaker 3: the queen and he was the king under the moon. Yeah,
Speaker 3: your eyes won't believe and your mind came. Yeah, Nights
Speaker 3: over Egypt. They were talking about Cleopatra, of course, and
Speaker 3: and it was everything that that Dexter did has has roots,
Speaker 3: I mean very deep, Like you said, afrocentric roots. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think about that.
Speaker 4: So y'all said that that's deep about that? I really
Speaker 4: you're right. Every song.
Speaker 1: So and being in that that that cyclone of dex Here,
Speaker 1: McFadden and Whitehead and and all those writers. Is there
Speaker 1: a story of a tune that you wanted that you
Speaker 1: couldn't get because another artist had it, or in a
Speaker 1: song that was offered to you that you might have
Speaker 1: passed on that became bigger for someone else.
Speaker 3: Oh, the only tune, and I guess it wasn't big
Speaker 3: for her. But McFadden and Whitehead wrote a wrote a
Speaker 3: tune call I don't know no one else to turn to,
Speaker 3: and I, uh, you know, I'm a grammarian, and and
Speaker 3: uh it was just too many had a double negative
Speaker 3: in it. And I remember McFadden said, he said, Okay,
Speaker 3: carn this song is going to be so big that
Speaker 3: you're going to say, hey, McFadden, write me another double right,
Speaker 3: And strangely enough, I I love Love Don't Love Nobody.
Speaker 3: Always loved it, but I didn't want to cover it
Speaker 3: cuse it had double negative. Dang, but I covered it.
Speaker 3: I've become a theme song of mine. I have to
Speaker 3: do it every every performance.
Speaker 2: But I'm so glad you said that.
Speaker 1: For the longest, I was afraid to ask in public
Speaker 1: if that's grammatically correct or not correct, because you know,
Speaker 1: once the song becomes a staple, I just leave it alone.
Speaker 2: So you.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not, But for me, every time I heard
Speaker 1: love don't Love Nobody, I was like, I think that's
Speaker 1: only a term that we say, like I you know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that I never asked.
Speaker 2: But always in my mind when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: I always felt like that wasn't grammatically correct.
Speaker 3: And so you're so correct.
Speaker 1: Because you arrived to Philly International in seventy six, at
Speaker 1: the in nineteen seventy six, at the same time that
Speaker 1: the Jackson's had relocated to Philadelphia. Did you have any
Speaker 1: run ins with him, like doing that whole recording process.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we were recording at the same time. Oh, there
Speaker 3: were such such nice kids. They my my then husband Khalil.
Speaker 3: They would talk, They would sniggle in the corner and
Speaker 3: look at Khalil because they said that he looked like
Speaker 3: their neighbor O. J. Simpson. Oh, wow, he really does.
Speaker 3: I've never noticed it. So they liked Khalil. And Michael
Speaker 3: was having voice change problems.
Speaker 2: Okay, he was.
Speaker 3: He was what he might have been twenty then, don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how old are seventy six, eighteen.
Speaker 3: Eighteen, okay, but his voice was changing, and there were
Speaker 3: and we were all in the same hotel at the
Speaker 3: Latham on Forsa Walnut, Okay, yeah, on seventeenth at Walnut,
Speaker 3: and we all lived in that hotel.
Speaker 2: That's where my problem was.
Speaker 3: We lived in one part of the hotel and they
Speaker 3: had the fire doors closed, you know, because we had
Speaker 3: instruments in our room. Stuck so right, So Michael was
Speaker 3: always in my suite, and he confided in me that
Speaker 3: he was cracking. There were certain certain notes on certain
Speaker 3: songs that he would crack. And so we we worked
Speaker 3: on that, you know, because I've been a vocal coach,
Speaker 3: like since I was twelve, working with those choir voices.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 3: So we worked on we worked on his changing the annunciation, sometimes,
Speaker 3: changing where he placed notes and sometimes and I tried
Speaker 3: to convince him to just change the notes in the phrases,
Speaker 3: you know, because he was full of full of ideas,
Speaker 3: the musical ideas, but he was so stubborn about you know,
Speaker 3: instead of instead of this figure, why can't we change
Speaker 3: it to another figure? And it conveyed the same idea.
Speaker 3: But he he was just stuck on certain you know,
Speaker 3: certain figures that he had contrived in his you know,
Speaker 3: in his head. As far as his plan. We worked yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: and and that's when I discovered he he was he
Speaker 3: was a pediatric insomniac because my mother was a pediatric insomniac.
Speaker 3: Children who don't sleep well at night, oh children, Yeah,
Speaker 3: all the way through through adulthood. My mother. My mother
Speaker 3: took naps during the day because she was just roaming
Speaker 3: around the house at night. Wow yeah. And because he
Speaker 3: would when he come into my room after we'd finish
Speaker 3: our little sessions. He I remember the first time he said,
Speaker 3: he said, I'm going to take a nap, and he
Speaker 3: and he pointed to the floor on the other side
Speaker 3: of my bed. And I'm a germaphobe, so forgot. So
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even let my kids, you know, when they
Speaker 3: grow up and travel with me. They couldn't even walk
Speaker 3: barefoot on a hotel floor. Oh no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: get your face. I started getting getting the housekeeper to
Speaker 3: leave me sheets and pillowcases and stuff. So when he,
Speaker 3: you know, when he come over to take a nap,
Speaker 3: he'd sleep on the floor. And I remember hearing when
Speaker 3: they were.
Speaker 9: Accusing him of of the of the children thing I
Speaker 9: was saying, and he and he mentioned one day to them,
Speaker 9: he said, no, I never slept in the bed with them.
Speaker 3: He said, I slept on the floor. I said, I know,
Speaker 3: he does. You know that that just blew me away.
Speaker 3: That Wow, hurt me so badly.
Speaker 9: But that's what what was happening when when we were
Speaker 9: all recording at the same time.
Speaker 1: So you helped him develop his pre pre set Riggs. Wow,
Speaker 1: you you were a vocal training friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, all singers should get.
Speaker 2: Checked by seth Riggs, was no doubt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah checked. He's pretty he's pretty old now,
Speaker 3: so hurry up.
Speaker 1: Well, now there's there's enough lessons on YouTube that we
Speaker 1: can just go there.
Speaker 3: Whoa, that's heavy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a forty five minute session of Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: and seth Riggs, uh doing vocal exercises.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's cool. You know, Maurice had some issues and
Speaker 3: I and he would he would come up, you know,
Speaker 3: come up and I would work with him vocally. And
Speaker 3: I remember after Doug and I had moved to New York,
Speaker 3: I heard changes, you know, I'd go to see them
Speaker 3: a lot when they performed live, and and I would
Speaker 3: ask him about stuff, you know, that he was doing.
Speaker 9: I said, well, you know, you know where did that
Speaker 9: come from? He said, actually, he said, I went to
Speaker 9: seth Riggs. I said okay, and he said and I said, well,
Speaker 9: so it worked time.
Speaker 3: He said, yeah.
Speaker 9: But the thing is everything you told me and taught me,
Speaker 9: seth Riggs told me and taught me, he said, but
Speaker 9: I incorporated it because I had to pay him.
Speaker 4: You're not a paid vocal coach coaching, I mean.
Speaker 3: Not for Phyllis, not for Michael. No, I was.
Speaker 2: I was just looking out for the cookout.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they was paying somebody.
Speaker 2: No, But in seventy six, we weren't. No.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know he wanted he wanted me and
Speaker 3: the kids to take him to Six Flags, you know,
Speaker 3: and my mother, you know, told me, you can't take
Speaker 3: this forty six like that just open, he said, because
Speaker 3: because you don't have security, and his security wouldn't work.
Speaker 3: You know, he just can't do that. So no, he was,
Speaker 3: he was like a family member. My mother went to
Speaker 3: one of their concerts, and I could never get my
Speaker 3: mother to go to anybody's concerts but mine and Patty.
Speaker 3: In fact, she said Patty's was the best concert she
Speaker 3: had ever gone to.
Speaker 2: Almost got jealous, your second best?
Speaker 3: No, No, she said, it was.
Speaker 2: Miss Gane.
Speaker 6: I want to ask you about recording two particular songs.
Speaker 6: Was it all it was? And of course don't let
Speaker 6: it go to your head, but was that all it was?
Speaker 6: Just you remember that session and you know what that was.
Speaker 3: Like I do I really do. Jerry Butler the coolest
Speaker 3: guy in music. That's why they called him. He wrote
Speaker 3: that one. He gave me that one, and it was
Speaker 3: a ballad, and it was It was so odd hearing
Speaker 3: hearing the demo with Jerry Butler's singing. You know, I'm
Speaker 3: used to hearing him him do those smooth ballads, you know,
Speaker 3: except stuff like Western Union Man, but that was still
Speaker 3: smooth and cool and icy, and so it was. It
Speaker 3: was just so odd hearing him sing. Was that all
Speaker 3: it was? And and this was at the beginning of
Speaker 3: disco And although we didn't I didn't choose it for
Speaker 3: that reason. But when it was it was one take too,
Speaker 3: because I'm not I'm not a one take girl. I
Speaker 3: like to do the scratch vocals. I like to live
Speaker 3: with them a couple of days and then come back
Speaker 3: in and perfect it, you know, get it, live with it,
Speaker 3: and then then get it like I really wanted. And
Speaker 3: I had, I had finished the take and Jerry said,
Speaker 3: well that's the take, and I said, are you sure?
Speaker 3: Because you know my old habit was to live with
Speaker 3: it and then do it over a perfected John ushery
Speaker 3: uh did the instrumental, did the orchestration that was that
Speaker 3: was a masterpiece of orchestration. It was. It was really good,
Speaker 3: and it was so cute seeing them in the studio,
Speaker 3: the two of him. Jerry's all cool, you know, and
Speaker 3: and icy, like I said, and mature and John Ushery
Speaker 3: couldn't sit still. He had, you know, one of those
Speaker 3: type A personalities, and he was all over all.
Speaker 2: Over the room for the for the one I Find
Speaker 2: You Love album.
Speaker 1: What was happening at CBS at that time, because I
Speaker 1: felt like that's that album should have been way bigger.
Speaker 2: Was that all it was is a club staple?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got we didn't realize it was going to be,
Speaker 3: you know, so embraced by the disco world. But the
Speaker 3: disco started calling the label asking for you know, a
Speaker 3: twelve inch you know. They obliged, of course, But there
Speaker 3: was a conflicting period there with with CBS and and
Speaker 3: Philly International and and was was you know, was in
Speaker 3: that came out during that period. So though I don't
Speaker 3: it might have been part of that that conflict because
Speaker 3: Gamble and Huff were powerful, very powerful, and there could
Speaker 3: have been rumblings of of envy, you know, that kind
Speaker 3: of thing.
Speaker 2: Too much power, So what led to the journey to Motown.
Speaker 3: Gamble was deciding to do other things. He came to
Speaker 3: me and said, you know, he wanted to do other things,
Speaker 3: and he brought his his nephew, Chuck Chuck Gamble that
Speaker 3: had the label. But before that he's formed another label
Speaker 3: and put I know, he put me on there, and
Speaker 3: he put the OJS on there and maybe maybe.
Speaker 8: Teddy t s op okay, okay, yeah, yeah, and he
Speaker 8: was he was contemplating doing other things at the time.
Speaker 4: Is this when he started doing the real estate stuff?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, building, you know, building communities and stuff.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And he asked me what label would I like to,
Speaker 3: you know, to go with, because our executive vice president
Speaker 3: did my deal with Motown. So it was handing your
Speaker 3: your niece over to you know, to another fan family.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's how that happened.
Speaker 6: Another one of my favorite songs of your machine I
Speaker 6: want to talk about it's a it's a duet.
Speaker 2: I'm back for more. How do you remember? That's right?
Speaker 6: That's the one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was on a that was a production of
Speaker 3: Norman Connors on for Al Johnson. Yeah, And they had
Speaker 3: finished Al's album and they didn't have a hot single,
Speaker 3: so they called me. They recorded it in l A
Speaker 3: and so they called me. We started looking for a
Speaker 3: clincher song, you know, a strong, strong, first single, and
Speaker 3: we found I'm Back for More on an old Tabaris album.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah, And so I thought we should do
Speaker 3: it as a duet. So I was going to use
Speaker 3: Sybil Thomas, one of Rufus Thomas's daughters, okay, because he's
Speaker 3: got some singing daughters. Boy, but Symple had moved to
Speaker 3: New York at the time. Uh, So I ended up
Speaker 3: doing doing it as a duet with with Al And
Speaker 3: that song has been sampled more than anything I combined
Speaker 3: that I recorded.
Speaker 4: I was just about to ask y'all that, like, what
Speaker 4: the what are the sample I hear the samples in
Speaker 4: the song. I was like, what are the songs that
Speaker 4: we know from this?
Speaker 3: God? Yeah, well did it? And there are when you
Speaker 3: look on who's sampled, there are names of of rap
Speaker 3: groups and rappers that I don't even know. So so
Speaker 3: a lot of those we don't know. Okay, so badly then, oh, okay.
Speaker 4: You must have took sampling well, because since you said
Speaker 4: that you're on a steady evolution and you're fine with me,
Speaker 4: were growing and going through whatever changes. When they started
Speaker 4: sampling and using it for hip hop, you were you
Speaker 4: were cool about it, right, Oh?
Speaker 3: I loved it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, because don't let it go to my head.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, everybody left that brand newpie and something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, don't let it go to your head. You know.
Speaker 3: One of those those message things that that Kenny and
Speaker 3: Leon were famous for and surprisingly little known fact they
Speaker 3: I remember when Kenny gave me the song, he said,
Speaker 3: because he gave it to me as a demo with
Speaker 3: him playing guitar and singing, you know, and and and
Speaker 3: Huff did a little piano on it. And so when
Speaker 3: I he said this you might like this one, and
Speaker 3: he said, don't worry Huff and I had the had
Speaker 3: the background that that's cool, you know. So when I finished,
Speaker 3: when I finished putting down the lead vocal, the final vocal,
Speaker 3: I went in his office and I said, come on,
Speaker 3: we're ready for the background. And and gamble Stead, Oh
Speaker 3: that's okay, Gene, you got it. Oh no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: y'all got to come sing this with me. And they know.
Speaker 4: That's them in the background.
Speaker 2: Don't let it go to.
Speaker 4: Who wait, No, no, no, no, who's who was?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, I'm sorry, I knew that.
Speaker 2: I'm just wait, okay, so this is a very one.
Speaker 1: I don't even know that's Rolling Chambers playing guitar with
Speaker 1: you on that guitar scatty thing at the end, but
Speaker 1: when you want to incorporate your scating whatnot. And you know,
Speaker 1: we haven't interviewed the Whispers or George Benson yet, so
Speaker 1: you're probably the first pop scatter that I can ask
Speaker 1: this to. What comes first? Like, are you singing your
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the thing that you do again?
Speaker 3: No, no, most folks can't hear that. I'm with that,
Speaker 3: you know, don't even know that that's under me because
Speaker 3: what I did was, I was just I was thinking
Speaker 3: of ad libs. Well that was in the middle, but
Speaker 3: like it ended up, you know, being like like an
Speaker 3: ad lib section I did. I and I don't know
Speaker 3: if it was Roland or not on on guitar then,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I imitated the don't never never never know it,
Speaker 3: don't let it go to your head, your head, So that.
Speaker 2: Was you first, and then they followed.
Speaker 3: You know, I was imitating I was imitating his his.
Speaker 2: Solo oh okay, so he.
Speaker 3: Like we did Ninfantized, you know, going back to that
Speaker 3: period because like like like on uninfantized, every every every
Speaker 3: note in the solo in Wayne Shorter solo, some day
Speaker 3: you will grow up. You'll grow up and had your problems,
Speaker 3: little girl. You must try to be strong. That was
Speaker 3: that was us putting lyrics to Wayne's solo. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: so it was the same, the same habit.
Speaker 1: You decided to do uh if you don't know me
Speaker 1: by now, which the irony of it is that you're
Speaker 1: not on Philly International anymore.
Speaker 3: And that's what Motown said.
Speaker 2: Was it your idea to do? It?
Speaker 1: Was that Motown like, oh, we have a legacy artist
Speaker 1: from Philly International, so let's bring some of that over here.
Speaker 3: Or no, it was it was it was my my idea.
Speaker 3: In fact, when when when I made uh who is it? Okay,
Speaker 3: Iris Gordy and and Raynona Gordy were you know, over
Speaker 3: over that that pride jacked.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They when when I said I want to do if
Speaker 3: you don't know me by now, they the sculler butt
Speaker 3: was well, you've already left that label. So they gave
Speaker 3: me about five long play albums. With samples of Joe
Speaker 3: bat music because it was like, what about us, you know.
Speaker 3: Well they didn't say that, but I got it, and
Speaker 3: from those I chose my baby Loves Me. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I did that, and I did another another Motown tune.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but if you don't know Me by Now.
Speaker 3: I remember telling Teddy that I wanted to cover, you know,
Speaker 3: to cover that. Well. What I wanted to do at
Speaker 3: first was I miss you, Oh, I miss you, and
Speaker 3: and Teddy said that doesn't fit you. He said, because
Speaker 3: think about the lyrics, he said, because it's gotten drink
Speaker 3: and drink, and he said, you don't drink. That's when
Speaker 3: I went to if you don't know Me by Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another genius move on that album.
Speaker 2: And this is kind of weird.
Speaker 1: I think the way that I just discovered classic songs
Speaker 1: is I discovered the cover first. I knew your version
Speaker 1: of completeness first, before I knew many Riputins versions.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah, you know that was the only thing
Speaker 3: that she had recorded that I could do.
Speaker 2: Oh, because he's just reflexing it.
Speaker 3: Everything else of hers was out of my stratosphere. And
Speaker 3: the week that she passed away, she came to see
Speaker 3: me at the Roxy. I did maybe three days at
Speaker 3: the roxyat and it was just just a few months
Speaker 3: before she passed the way. Because she she was telling
Speaker 3: me how she she was. She said, she said, I'm
Speaker 3: putting y'all down. She was because she was on CBS
Speaker 3: right and she said, I'm going to do my own things.
Speaker 3: She was telling me about a clothes clothing line. This
Speaker 3: was the way after she had had the mistectomy, and
Speaker 3: and that those two nights, George Duke came to see me,
Speaker 3: Stevie came to see me. Uh Serena came to see me.
Speaker 3: Chaka Chaka was just pregnant with her first child. Then
Speaker 3: there was so many folks that I didn't know came
Speaker 3: came to see me at the Roxy. It's right on Sunset,
Speaker 3: right at the Beverly Hills line at the sign.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know that for you in eighty six,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the one of the best comeback
Speaker 2: stories in music was you know you achieving your number.
Speaker 1: One single with Closer than Close, right and again I'm
Speaker 1: Flame of Love is like one of my all time
Speaker 1: favorite songs of yours. Generally, what was happening in eighty
Speaker 1: six for you? Like, were you expecting this at all,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times when artists are
Speaker 1: on a lot of labels and they record and record
Speaker 1: and record, and the desired results, I mean, sometimes it's
Speaker 1: like a stalled car. Sometimes it's not. But this, this
Speaker 1: really truly felt like a victory lap for you. Like,
Speaker 1: can you talk about just the whole process of making
Speaker 1: that record and what your expectations were and how did
Speaker 1: it feel too.
Speaker 2: Come with those two hit singles.
Speaker 3: Well, it was so such a pleasure to work with Grover.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because a friend of his, what's his name, he
Speaker 3: used to be on the news here in Philly. I
Speaker 3: knew him. He does he doesn't add now for a
Speaker 3: legal firm, and his name will come to me. But
Speaker 3: he went to more House and I met him in Atlanta,
Speaker 3: you know, when he was matriculating and he hooked. It
Speaker 3: was his idea for me and Grover to get to
Speaker 3: know each other. So he made the introduction and it
Speaker 3: was like we had we were steparated Siame's twins, Grover
Speaker 3: and I we were so compatible. It was just amazing.
Speaker 3: In fact, Closer than Close was the first, the first
Speaker 3: song we chose. Because he produced two of my albums,
Speaker 3: the two on Atlantic and we just thought so much alike,
Speaker 3: and he just loved playing on my product. You know,
Speaker 3: he played on just about everything on those two albums.
Speaker 3: In fact, on the twenty fourth of April uh in
Speaker 3: Atlantic City, the National R and B Music Society is,
Speaker 3: in conjunction with the Mayor of Atlantic City, is installing
Speaker 3: the first class of artists on the Atlantic City Walk
Speaker 3: of Fame. And I know the Delphonics on there. James
Speaker 3: Brown will be installed and Grover Washington Junior, so you know,
Speaker 3: and I've been in touch with, you know, with his
Speaker 3: his daughter and his son and his wife Chris and
Speaker 3: there then be there and yeah, and and the grandchildren. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I had to had to mention that. But I
Speaker 3: had my my manager, my then manager had put me
Speaker 3: on two labels. Sugar Hill Records was one and Boston
Speaker 3: International Records with Maurice Starr sugar Hill and Sylvia Sylvia Robinson.
Speaker 3: And he was in such a hurry. We'd get half
Speaker 3: an album done and he was saying, well, they're not
Speaker 3: you know, they're not doing this quickly enough. So he
Speaker 3: would get me. He made me leave the label and
Speaker 3: got both Maurice and Sylvia to grant me unconditional releases
Speaker 3: from the labels. But but of course I stayed with
Speaker 3: with Sylvia Rown for the two albums on Atlantic. It
Speaker 3: was weird then, you know, Electrosylo Atlantic and Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2: Once the nineties come along. How do you feel that
Speaker 2: the industry, especially with with with black artists. I guess
Speaker 2: with the process of of.
Speaker 1: You know, with hip hop coming in and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: you're seeing like another generation of artists coming too the
Speaker 1: system that's kind of far away from the traditional style
Speaker 1: of what soul or singing or jazz music or whatever, like,
Speaker 1: how do you not get discouraged by that?
Speaker 2: I think?
Speaker 1: I think because a lot of artists could easily fall
Speaker 1: into bitterness and anger for some reason, I don't feel.
Speaker 1: I don't feel that from you at at all. Like,
Speaker 1: how have you been able to maintain you're cool and
Speaker 1: sort of a steady pace throughout your career?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm you're very astute as an observer because because
Speaker 3: it never it never affected me negatively. I like the
Speaker 3: fact that they stampled me a lot, you know, and
Speaker 3: back when you know, when the when the lyrics were
Speaker 3: posts them and cute, you know, and positive. I you know,
Speaker 3: I embraced it as well. Uh and and and they
Speaker 3: they used vintage music anyway, you know in there. So
Speaker 3: I like the fact that they were introducing the the
Speaker 3: young listeners to to the vintage artist and the vinted sound.
Speaker 3: So I was, I was, I was cool with it.
Speaker 3: And the fact that that I, you know, had a
Speaker 3: jazz audience, you know, a strong, sturdy jazz audience, and
Speaker 3: the R and B side, So I you know, I
Speaker 3: could perform everywhere, you know, and in Europe you can.
Speaker 3: You can perform in Europe for the rest of your life.
Speaker 3: They know more songs than you know. Absolutely, So I was,
Speaker 3: I was cool.
Speaker 4: Can you also talk about to because I remember a time,
Speaker 4: and I'm decent from my childhood memories, but I remember
Speaker 4: a time when you became you got into education and
Speaker 4: you were teaching teaching at Howard and you were teaching vocal.
Speaker 3: Oh, I got offers from several universities. You had to
Speaker 3: join their faculty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was it
Speaker 3: was a bit too confining.
Speaker 2: Back.
Speaker 3: A couple of universities offered me, they said, okay, you
Speaker 3: can pickure your days that you'll have classes, and they
Speaker 3: had replacements for me, subs for me when I had to,
Speaker 3: you know, to to go to work, you know, this week,
Speaker 3: and and you know, it was it was cool like that.
Speaker 3: But I just didn't, you know, because I was still
Speaker 3: raising the kids then, and and that happened with with
Speaker 3: some Broadway offers as well, because I couldn't I couldn't
Speaker 3: bring the kids to New York. What did you say
Speaker 3: to my mother? Did not want to live in New York? Oh?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that part, that part, it is very different
Speaker 4: than Atlanta.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But but the fact that I had those two
Speaker 3: very diverse audiences kept me kept me afloat. And I
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm glad a lot of the rappers
Speaker 3: have grown up. Your benches, rappers have grown up and
Speaker 3: changed their lyrics, and I'm thinking that's going to happen
Speaker 3: down the road for the younger ones, you know, So
Speaker 3: there's hope people, That's right.
Speaker 1: I have one more question, So can you talk about
Speaker 1: your work on the Jazz Is Dead series with Alicia
Speaker 1: heat and Adrian Oh?
Speaker 3: That was that was quite an experience. You know. I
Speaker 3: haven't hadn't done anything like that since I appeared on
Speaker 3: an album and you mentioned and to may right, uh,
Speaker 3: years years and years ago, I think it might have been. No,
Speaker 3: it wasn't his first album. It was called life Cycle,
Speaker 3: and he recorded in Boston at the New England Conservatory
Speaker 3: and he had uh Andy Bay Deadie Bridgewater, Ron Carter,
Speaker 3: so many of you know, of the top jazz artists
Speaker 3: on on this this project. And what he brought was
Speaker 3: a skeleton skeleton, you know, skeleton tracks because it was
Speaker 3: an album, and we basically he gave us titles and themes, patterns,
Speaker 3: and we basically it was extemporaneous for the most part.
Speaker 3: And not since then had I been able to do
Speaker 3: that until I got with with Ali Muhammad Shahid and
Speaker 3: Adrian Young. Because I get there in the studio they
Speaker 3: hadn't sent me in any music, no ideas, no titles, nothing,
Speaker 3: and Adrian since it plays me some changes, pretty avant
Speaker 3: garde changes for most of those tunes, which was very
Speaker 3: appealing to me, you know, like sitting in with Pherol
Speaker 3: Saunders or Felonious Mark you know sometimes. So that was
Speaker 3: cool by me. And then I had to go on
Speaker 3: Mike with no idea as to what I was going
Speaker 3: to sing, which I hadn't done, like I said, since
Speaker 3: the MN two May album. I composed my lyric. I
Speaker 3: compose the melodies just listening to the chords, and the
Speaker 3: titles of the songs were all extemporaneous and off the
Speaker 3: top of my head, with no prior, no prior notice,
Speaker 3: no prior conceiving, And didn't even know that was how
Speaker 3: it was good. It was.
Speaker 4: It was a stretch like exercise, right like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was like calisthetics for a whole album.
Speaker 4: But you did it.
Speaker 3: It made you stand on your tippy toes.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I want to thank you for taking
Speaker 1: time out to speak with us, and you know we're
Speaker 1: lifelong fans of yours, and you know, definitely one of
Speaker 1: my favorite singers. And I thank you for taking a
Speaker 1: chance on an unknown drummer. And you know that that
Speaker 1: that a massive effect on me.
Speaker 4: And I'm the circle back story Auntie. That that that
Speaker 4: you do now every day every night.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, you know.
Speaker 9: I didn't remember you from you know, from the from
Speaker 9: the performances. I started, I, uh, who is your guy
Speaker 9: in your late night guy that you.
Speaker 3: I never watched his show.
Speaker 9: I passed by his show, uh you know channel surfing,
Speaker 9: and I saw you and your guys.
Speaker 3: I tried to like his part, you know, his jokes
Speaker 3: and his guests. Uh. And it didn't It didn't work.
Speaker 9: So I started recording your show, his show, y'all show. Uh,
Speaker 9: and I would I would fast forward to when y'all
Speaker 9: broke the commercial until you played, you know, on the
Speaker 9: faith for the commercials, and when you came back, and
Speaker 9: that I loved And I guess I I I it
Speaker 9: was because cellularly I remembered you.
Speaker 10: Oh nothing for me see yeah, oh wow, Well I
Speaker 10: guess we're leaving the show now, Steve.
Speaker 2: So watch tonight's show. It's a hot mess. The music,
Speaker 2: the music, no, especially the music.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I thank you, Thank you once again. And on behalf
Speaker 2: of paid Bill give give well bro and fan take
Speaker 2: a little absolutely get well paid Bill, Steve. Uh, we
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: This is another classic episode of Quest Love Supreme and
Speaker 1: we'll see week on the next go round.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all peace.
Speaker 1: What's Love Supreme is a production of Iheartened Radio. For
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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.