Speaker 1: Are you leaving?
Speaker 2: I you wanna way back home?
Speaker 3: Either way you want to be.
Speaker 2: There, doesn't matter how much baggage you claim and give
Speaker 2: us time and a terminol and gay. We want to
Speaker 2: send you off in style. We want to welcome you
Speaker 2: back home. Tell us all about it.
Speaker 1: We scared her? Was it fine?
Speaker 2: Malborn?
Speaker 1: Do you need to ride? Do you need to ride?
Speaker 1: Need a ride? Do you need with Karen and Chris
Speaker 1: welcome to Do you need a ride? This is Chris Fairbanks.
Speaker 3: And this is Karen gl Gara.
Speaker 1: I hello Karen, Oh, hello Chris. I did a taping
Speaker 1: for Commercial to Day and I had to do it
Speaker 1: a second time in Spanish and yeah, I'm just letting
Speaker 1: you know I am bilingual. It took me four hours,
Speaker 1: though I had to listen to it. I had to
Speaker 1: dictate it, translate it because it wasn't provided oddly, so
Speaker 1: I just translated the English. And it felt so weird
Speaker 1: doing the accent like I learned it in college. But
Speaker 1: it felt very strange to do a Spanish accent? Am
Speaker 1: I weird? Fore fronted by that?
Speaker 3: Our French teacher in high school used to get mad
Speaker 3: at us all the time because she would be like,
Speaker 3: leipond you blee, and she'd be saying like that. We'd
Speaker 3: always be like, you know whatever, jamappel Karen, like we
Speaker 3: would not do French accents. We would we all refused
Speaker 3: to even especially not like do the r thing or
Speaker 3: the throat thing, but just like we would all keep
Speaker 3: our California accents.
Speaker 1: Why are you doing it? I guess it felt like
Speaker 1: I was doing an accent, like when I do the
Speaker 1: reggae stuff. It seemed like I was comedically it seemed
Speaker 1: like someone would be offended if they walked in I
Speaker 1: was doing. But I'm just thinking I'm speaking Spanish though.
Speaker 1: It's it was so because it would go back. It
Speaker 1: was for the California Lottery. So as soon as it
Speaker 1: got to that, you know, I do California lottery, and
Speaker 1: then I dropped the accent. I don't know very' here
Speaker 1: it just give us a sampling. Oh god, I didn't
Speaker 1: memorize it. Okay, wait, I will here we go and
Speaker 1: we are on in in in five four three two,
Speaker 1: And I wasn't ready Here we go and I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Count you back in you don't do the last two
Speaker 3: numbers in five.
Speaker 1: Four three, Poor Caciente Tandiana reventur barbojas des plastico, poor
Speaker 1: la mis ma razon que hugamos Scratchers Day California Lottery,
Speaker 1: bonello un poco de juegoa too dia too dia. Oh,
Speaker 1: I hope I didn't do it like that. On the recording.
Speaker 1: I think I said do tilla, which means something about
Speaker 1: your aunt.
Speaker 3: Oh. No, wow, you're supposed to be saying, are you
Speaker 3: saying today today?
Speaker 1: Yes, you're right, thank you. I mean our French and Spanish.
Speaker 1: That's similar to where you just I'm smart. It's a
Speaker 1: count clue, you know what I mean? Be crazy. The
Speaker 1: reason I didn't do that well is because I didn't
Speaker 1: put on my father's glasses. I actually have trouble reading.
Speaker 1: Oh there they are, there they are. Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: I've grown blind during this, but that's gonna stick with me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: por la mis marison okay ol gamos gamos Scratcher's Day,
Speaker 1: California Lottery. That's how I was doing it because I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna go I'm not gonna have the accent California Lottery. No,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't.
Speaker 3: And I think that's how many people in many Californians,
Speaker 3: many native Spanish speakers also because they are bilingual. That's
Speaker 3: how they do. I always hear like the girls talking
Speaker 3: to each other where they're speaking in Spanish so that
Speaker 3: other people can't hear them. But then they're like, you know, Twitter,
Speaker 3: or they'll say a thing that's right American or Anglicized exactly.
Speaker 1: This is a problematic conversation. Let's introduce our guests. It
Speaker 1: maybe is. But the reason I brought it up as
Speaker 1: I was worried that I did the lottery California line,
Speaker 1: but I didn't do the accent, so I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: even brought it up. I'm fine, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: That's the way.
Speaker 3: That's the way I hear people do it on the
Speaker 3: radio when they're speaking Spanish, but then they say the
Speaker 3: thing in English they do it.
Speaker 1: I in my mind, I did it problematically, but I
Speaker 1: think I did it correctly. I just had to talk
Speaker 1: through it at a strange time at the beginning of
Speaker 1: our podcast, and I hope that's okay.
Speaker 3: Look, this is where it's the first four minutes of
Speaker 3: the podcast where we bring our worst problems right, and
Speaker 3: then we pull our guest into those problems and say,
Speaker 3: come and solve these for us.
Speaker 1: Please. Are you sure we shouldn't change the name of
Speaker 1: the podcast Off on the wrong Foot. I think it's
Speaker 1: got a nice ring to it and it makes perfect sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a guest today, Karen. We certainly do. And
Speaker 1: I am holding her book. It's funny. Why am I
Speaker 1: holding it up? There's no TV cameras? But look, do
Speaker 1: you have it beautiful?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: I got some one very early because I'm friends with
Speaker 3: our guest.
Speaker 1: Well, I r L. Since you're are such good friends,
Speaker 1: I will do let you do the honors of introducing her.
Speaker 3: Okay, back all the way off, ladies and gentlemen. Today
Speaker 3: our guest. Our guest is a soup, is a multi
Speaker 3: hyphen it And you can tell me, Mandy if I
Speaker 3: get the order wrong. But I would say she is
Speaker 3: a producer. She is a photographer photographer. She is a
Speaker 3: book or extraordinaire. She is a helper of artists around
Speaker 3: the world and fucked up stand up comics who can't
Speaker 3: get their shit together. She's a facilitator of the arts.
Speaker 3: Her name is Mandy Johnson and.
Speaker 1: A writer.
Speaker 4: And a writer of books. I'm a writer of books,
Speaker 4: a curator of books and writing. Andy Johnson, I didn't
Speaker 4: back off. I didn't know it was perfect.
Speaker 1: Many that's her official production.
Speaker 5: That's so many additional multi hyphens. I'm going to keep
Speaker 5: all of them.
Speaker 3: Karen Good, I think for me, I know you best
Speaker 3: as the person who when I started doing stand up
Speaker 3: again and knew.
Speaker 1: It was a bad idea.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was not a bad idea, not this, not this
Speaker 1: most recent time, but the first time when I was
Speaker 1: doing guitar, Yeah, that was great. Everyone likes it, thank you.
Speaker 1: But for me personally, just my personal experience was humiliation.
Speaker 3: And and also there was a lot of tech involved
Speaker 3: that I couldn't There's a lot of things that were
Speaker 3: involved I couldn't handle. And when I did super serious well,
Speaker 3: and when I met Mandy the first time, it was
Speaker 3: just like I got you, here's the sparking spot for
Speaker 3: I'll meet you at the door. It was like she
Speaker 3: knew exactly how high maintenance I was and how to
Speaker 3: get me into that show so that I wouldn't like
Speaker 3: completely cave in inside before I got on stage. And
Speaker 3: she is perfect at doing it. She gives everybody exactly
Speaker 3: what they need or don't need. It makes all the
Speaker 3: difference in the world.
Speaker 1: So sweet.
Speaker 5: We were so excited when Karen, Karen, when you came
Speaker 5: back to comedy, and I think at the time I
Speaker 5: told you that producers in the independent comedy see in
Speaker 5: Los Angeles were like, Oh my god, Karen Cogarf was
Speaker 5: doing shows again.
Speaker 1: This is so exciting.
Speaker 5: That's true truly how me Angela felt, were like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is so exciting, and we've always wanted to have
Speaker 5: her on and so when you came into our show,
Speaker 5: we were so pumped.
Speaker 1: I was so excited about it.
Speaker 3: So it feels a little bit like those dreams you
Speaker 3: have when you're in your late thirties early forties where
Speaker 3: you're in high school, but you like the early thirties
Speaker 3: early forties, where you're just like, I.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't be here. Why am I taking this math death?
Speaker 1: Only it was my real life. That's how it felt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my reoccurring nightmare is yes, I'm Billy Madison situation
Speaker 1: where I have to quit, I have to cancel all
Speaker 1: my gigs, I have to move out of my apartment.
Speaker 1: There's so much high school I missed, and I have
Speaker 1: to go back because of a class I forgot about.
Speaker 1: Not I didn't just go miss the test at the end.
Speaker 1: I absolutely forgot about my seventh period algebra, and I
Speaker 1: have to relearn and redo it. It's a reoccurring nightmare.
Speaker 5: And you tell you try to tell people, sorry, Oh,
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, I love this nightmare in your head.
Speaker 5: You're like, I'm a successful comedian, but I still need
Speaker 5: to go back and get my eyes.
Speaker 1: Better, get it right. Why what exactly? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's some honor thing, like I have to go do this.
Speaker 1: What I have framed and of course hung in my
Speaker 1: living room, this diploma prior to my college degree is
Speaker 1: a first.
Speaker 4: I got it.
Speaker 1: I lied. I have to go back.
Speaker 3: I did that a lot with I would go back
Speaker 3: to play on my old softball team, but it was,
Speaker 3: of course all new young people, and I would keep
Speaker 3: looking at people and going, I wasn't even that good
Speaker 3: when I did it there, Why am I here? And
Speaker 3: I'd be like, listen to me, I'm forty two or
Speaker 3: whatever I was at the time, where I'm just like
Speaker 3: trying to explain to the other adults at the school,
Speaker 3: like please, I can't put this uniform on.
Speaker 1: Please don't make me do this. Yeah, that's the same dream.
Speaker 1: What does it mean we need a dream analyzer.
Speaker 3: Mandy, Oh, that's the other hyphen it analyzer Mandy analyzed.
Speaker 1: It's probably to some form of anxiety.
Speaker 5: I think that's all of my life, not being good enough,
Speaker 5: not succeeding, not completing whatever you said out to complete.
Speaker 5: I my recurring things are just versions of whatever my
Speaker 5: job is, time that I don't work. So like when
Speaker 5: I cocktailed in college, I would just dream that I
Speaker 5: cocktailed the whole night, and so I'd wake up, but.
Speaker 1: I would feel like I ever went to sleep.
Speaker 5: And when we were at like festivals, I would often
Speaker 5: dream of working the festival the whole night and then
Speaker 5: get up and have to do a whole other day
Speaker 5: of festivals all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I can't They're kind of realistic, like
Speaker 1: that's that that could possibly happen. So it's so disappointing
Speaker 1: for that to be a dream. Remember the action, the
Speaker 1: weird things, even being chased or falling. I don't dream
Speaker 1: those things anymore. They're just realistic where I'm screwing up
Speaker 1: an appointment or yeah yeah.
Speaker 5: And in the pandemic and they've just been like versions
Speaker 5: of masked, or like I'm the only mask person and
Speaker 5: everyone else isn't, or I've forgotten my mask in some
Speaker 5: kind of very important, crazy way, and therefore I have
Speaker 5: put everyone who lives with me at risk, and like
Speaker 5: everyone I love somehow, they've just all been like weird
Speaker 5: versions of like how I'm going to somehow contruck COVID
Speaker 5: and then give it to everybody I love.
Speaker 1: Which it's the most realist. Then that day that exact
Speaker 1: thing happens, it's just not scary because you're awake and
Speaker 1: you know how to deal with it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a dream the other night that I
Speaker 3: everything that it wasn't stressful, wasn't anything. It's just no
Speaker 3: matter what anyone said to me. In the dream, i'd go,
Speaker 3: that's okay. I just kept saying that over and over,
Speaker 3: and when I woke up, I was like, this is
Speaker 3: I think this was a good dream. I think this
Speaker 3: is like this is a thing to focus on. Is
Speaker 3: it doesn't most things don't matter. Yeah, I think your
Speaker 3: subconscious was correct. Everything everything's fine, It's going to be fine. Eventually,
Speaker 3: everything will be fine.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. I I this is very specific and we
Speaker 1: don't have to talk about dreams the whole time. But
Speaker 1: you are a dream analyzer, Mandy. So it is how
Speaker 1: I make all of my money. So yeah, that and
Speaker 1: the tarot cards. So I have been doing this thing
Speaker 1: where I when I wake up, there is a moment
Speaker 1: I'm realizing now because I've been dreaming during this whole
Speaker 1: past year. There's a moment here I'm awake, clarified. Did
Speaker 1: you not before? I did not before? Okay, you did?
Speaker 1: You very rarely. And it might have to do with
Speaker 1: the fact that I was drinking more. Sure, I think
Speaker 1: it does, and I not so much that I just
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm dreaming more. And it is
Speaker 1: proportionate to me not ever going out or having drinks. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a weird, subtle way of admitting I had a
Speaker 1: problem or finding out right now in this moment. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I wait to handle at once. And that's
Speaker 1: I haven't even gotten another dream. This is where it
Speaker 1: gets well boring. I wake up and I keep my
Speaker 1: eyes shut, but I know I'm awake, but I'm not
Speaker 1: quite because I'm dreaming about the alarm and I dream convinced.
Speaker 1: I convinced myself in a dream state that tom is
Speaker 1: a malleable thing, and clocks are not as we know them.
Speaker 1: I can't I'm not sure how I do this, but
Speaker 1: I convince myself that the clock is behind twelve hours
Speaker 1: or something. And while I sleep, I will push I
Speaker 1: actually have this decision, and I push snows and I
Speaker 1: miss or I turn it off and then I just
Speaker 1: don't wake up. It's actually become a problem where I
Speaker 1: sleep while I'm asleep convinced myself it's not happening. I
Speaker 1: don't just sleep through an alarm like people do that?
Speaker 1: Do you ever have where I have it?
Speaker 5: Sometimes where I'm aware in the dream, I'm aware that
Speaker 5: I'm dreaming.
Speaker 6: I'm aware that I'm asleep and I am too. Thing
Speaker 6: is a dream, right, I called lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming
Speaker 6: your business, Mandy, so much care so much today? Not
Speaker 6: that are Maybe that's what you're doing, is like, and
Speaker 6: then you can kind of be like and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 6: I can kind of control this, right, I think I
Speaker 6: have special powers.
Speaker 1: That's exactly it. I'm Lucid dreaming. I know I know
Speaker 1: I'm laying in bed, I know I'm in my house,
Speaker 1: I know the alarm is about to go off, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to open my eyes to see what
Speaker 1: time it is, So rather than open my eyes and
Speaker 1: become fully awake, I dream that it's three hours earlier.
Speaker 1: That's basically what.
Speaker 5: Time is this normally at? Like what time is your home?
Speaker 1: Yes, and it will be like if it's like right
Speaker 1: before the alarm goes off, my brain knows when the
Speaker 1: alarm's going off, and it's like really early in the morning,
Speaker 1: Like do you get up really earlier? Is it like
Speaker 1: more than he doesn't look at that hair?
Speaker 5: He gets up early?
Speaker 1: It's funny. The only days I wake up at six
Speaker 1: thirty are the days I go skateboarding with my seven
Speaker 1: am skateboard crew, which is like high.
Speaker 5: Scheel, Like that's an oxymoron of a seven am skateboard crew.
Speaker 1: We got to get there before Costco opens and then
Speaker 1: all the cars come, and then it's day We have
Speaker 1: to get there before the cars. And everyone I skate
Speaker 1: with has a day job. They're firemen and stuff, so
Speaker 1: we have to do it in the morning. What a
Speaker 1: brag there, Yeah, fireman, I know fireman. My nephew is
Speaker 1: a fireman, my brother in law's a fireman. How many
Speaker 1: firemen do you guys know Karen's father fireman?
Speaker 3: Uh, and about one hundred other people in my family.
Speaker 1: Really, I don't.
Speaker 5: I think I had a nephew ones who wanted to
Speaker 5: be a fireman. That's it some total like half of
Speaker 5: one basically, I mean, I wouldn't even give it one.
Speaker 5: That's none of them, None of them.
Speaker 1: My nephew. My nephew is freshly become a fireman. Congratulations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the outfit and everything.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna trump you all in being boring by saying
Speaker 3: my uncle, my uncle Martin teaches at the fire College
Speaker 3: in San Francisco. So all, if you become a fireman
Speaker 3: in San Francisco, my uncle mark and teaches you like
Speaker 3: the book part?
Speaker 1: Oh wow? Does he like it? Thanks?
Speaker 3: That's I wanted to kind of blow your guys's mind.
Speaker 1: It feels like I did. He does he like it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean maybe he enjoyed doing it. He's been doing
Speaker 3: it a while, so I think he does. He's been doing.
Speaker 1: It a long time. I'm I've never heard of such
Speaker 1: a thing as at fire college. Because recently I was
Speaker 1: thinking it would be very important and helpful if there
Speaker 1: was some kind of a police college.
Speaker 3: I can't believe that you guys keep calling it police
Speaker 3: school and police college. When the Police Academy films the
Speaker 3: entire film series, there's six.
Speaker 1: Or seven of us all that I thought it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, Mandy, Bobcat Goldthwaite is in your.
Speaker 5: Book, and you know what, I thought that they made
Speaker 5: the name better, that they didn't actually use the real name.
Speaker 1: I the episode of the I believe it was number
Speaker 1: three Citizens on Patrol. That that's the one that spoke
Speaker 1: to me the most as a skateboarder, because I realized
Speaker 1: as a teenage skateboarder, I could help solve crime by
Speaker 1: launching a sweet method over the hood of a car.
Speaker 5: It feels like a TV show you pitched.
Speaker 1: No, it was. It was Tony Hawk and the entire
Speaker 1: Bones Brigade. We're in Police Academy. Three. Tony Hawk is
Speaker 1: six four or six five and he was the stunt
Speaker 1: person for David Spade. No, who I believe is four?
Speaker 1: You know five? Well, I don't want to offend the man.
Speaker 1: He's in his mid five. He's in the mid five.
Speaker 1: He's petite. Yeah, he's a pilled on it. He's got
Speaker 1: jokes about it. Yeah, yeah, he would call himself dainty.
Speaker 3: Even I would say that you just did the most
Speaker 3: perfect segue into talking about Mandy's book. I know, we
Speaker 3: went back to poets, I know, I know, but we
Speaker 3: should talk about it though, because it is beautiful. I mean,
Speaker 3: it is a gorgeous book, but it's also Stephen talked
Speaker 3: about it on our staff meeting this morning. It's basically,
Speaker 3: you know, Mandy, being a comedy show, live show producer
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles and around the globe, but also a photographer,
Speaker 3: began to take a series of photos at the shows
Speaker 3: for comics that then most comics began to use all
Speaker 3: the time and became almost like a the It was
Speaker 3: like the picture the CPA tongue kind of you know,
Speaker 3: basically headshot, the Mandy Johnson headshot essentially, but became became
Speaker 3: so well known throughout the biz.
Speaker 1: Mandy, Mandy.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you, Karen, how did you get the
Speaker 3: idea that you were like, I'll give comics basically free headshots.
Speaker 5: I mean, it truly didn't start off as that, and
Speaker 5: it didn't even start off to be a book. It
Speaker 5: started off as a need to show people, audience members
Speaker 5: and comedians who has who had done the show and
Speaker 5: create SEO and drive traffic to the website. And Joel
Speaker 5: was like, it basically was our version of like a
Speaker 5: comedy club wall where Canadians sign headshots and then they
Speaker 5: put them up in frames and they sit there forever
Speaker 5: and gather gross dust.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but it's my favorite thing when I go
Speaker 1: to a comedy club it is to look at the
Speaker 1: wall and see comics that have moved on and become
Speaker 1: head writers of TV shows or just went off into obscurity.
Speaker 1: I love. I always look at the comedy club wall
Speaker 1: in any club. And this book is a lot of
Speaker 1: these photos in this book I do recognize from the
Speaker 1: comics using these photos as their headshots. You were giving
Speaker 1: away free headtree. It was definitely like.
Speaker 5: And then when we started in twenty ten, we very
Speaker 5: very first started. We couldn't afford to pay, and then
Speaker 5: we got a sponsor about six or seven months and
Speaker 5: and so then we were able to pay everyone consistently,
Speaker 5: which was something that was always important to me and Joel.
Speaker 5: But in the meantime, I was like, well, none of you,
Speaker 5: all of you need photos, so here are some photos
Speaker 5: for you. I can't pay you, but here are some
Speaker 5: you all need photos. I've looked online.
Speaker 1: You do not have them. Here are some.
Speaker 3: Photos, yes, because most people tried to get the like
Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety nine dollars set when they look
Speaker 3: twenty seven and then just never do it again.
Speaker 1: That's definitely what I did. It was just like get
Speaker 1: what you get.
Speaker 3: When you you know, when you absolutely have to, and
Speaker 3: then never look back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of comics I note that are
Speaker 1: doing well that still have fifteen year old headshots where
Speaker 1: of a hairline of the past.
Speaker 5: I photo up a lot of comedians portraits that they'll
Speaker 5: use for headshots, and a lot of times they'll come
Speaker 5: and I haven't done this in like a decade. I'm like, sure,
Speaker 5: that makes sense, and then they'll tell me I hate this,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, you know, so if you're successful, this
Speaker 5: is a thing that you're going to have to do
Speaker 5: a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's awkward to do direct while you're taking photo,
Speaker 1: like give me a pay act like you're yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean a lot of times because I think comedians
Speaker 5: will come to me because we know each other, and
Speaker 5: so yeah, you can have we can kind of chat
Speaker 5: and hang out where I take photos, and so eventually
Speaker 5: they just relax. Yeah, and you know, sure, there's like
Speaker 5: it's digital now, so there's like three hundred photos of
Speaker 5: them talking that are completely unusable, but then there's like,
Speaker 5: you know, one hundred and fifty that are great of
Speaker 5: them having a moment or like in between or you know,
Speaker 5: posy more naturally. But it just kind of eventually they
Speaker 5: get comfortable on the relax into themselves more. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: then they're just more natural as a whole. But the
Speaker 5: first time, yeah, I mean it makes such a huge difference.
Speaker 1: Such it's so much easier. I just I think of
Speaker 1: when back when I snowboarding a lot, there'd be three
Speaker 1: or four photographers taking pictures of everyone, and you could
Speaker 1: tell who wasn't worried about money because it was in
Speaker 1: the film days. They'd be just snapping sequence after sequence,
Speaker 1: and other folks were like, well, I don't want to
Speaker 1: burn a bunch of film here like you had to.
Speaker 1: People used to have to worry about the expense of
Speaker 1: developing and then finding out that you wasted a bunch
Speaker 1: of shows.
Speaker 5: It was cheaper to purchase and develop film back then, yeah,
Speaker 5: but it still was an actual cost versus just like
Speaker 5: a one time cost of a memory.
Speaker 1: Card, you know, right, right, and so yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: that's the way.
Speaker 5: I don't now when I shoot film. I never felt
Speaker 5: like that when I shot film, but now when I
Speaker 5: shoot film, I feel like that because it's so challenging
Speaker 5: and like you have to I send my film out
Speaker 5: to labs that don't exist that are in Los Angeles
Speaker 5: to get developed, because the one in Los Angeles that
Speaker 5: does like medium format is very expensive.
Speaker 3: Deluxe I con I just wanted to guess a photo,
Speaker 3: see if I could get it right.
Speaker 5: Icon it's the only one that I know that does
Speaker 5: medium form. Like there's a lot of great thirty five
Speaker 5: millimeter places, but myself kind of like being like, mmm,
Speaker 5: is this worth shooting film for?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Did you ever like mess with it? Like the actual
Speaker 1: emulsion process in the in the dark room and with chemicals.
Speaker 5: I never processed color film, but I grew up grew
Speaker 5: up as a strong word, I guess. But from like
Speaker 5: high school, middle school, I process my own form black
Speaker 5: and white film for ages. I processed thirty five medium format.
Speaker 1: In college.
Speaker 5: I process my own four by five film, yeah, which
Speaker 5: is how the photos in the book are shot.
Speaker 1: They're all shot on a four by five camera.
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, and that was kind of my cheat to
Speaker 5: like get around my nervousness for shooting them. Especially early on,
Speaker 5: I was like, look at this really cool camera. Don't
Speaker 5: you want to be photographed with this wool ancient camera?
Speaker 1: Feel like Abraham Lincoln. I'll put a blanket over my head.
Speaker 3: It is pretty amazing though, when you look at this book,
Speaker 3: and you definitely should and get Mandy's book because it
Speaker 3: isn't a I had no idea how many huge people
Speaker 3: you got on that show and it for that book. Like,
Speaker 3: as I flipped through it, I was just like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, there's legit big stars in this book. It's
Speaker 3: really cool, and.
Speaker 1: It's cool because it is. I feel like I haven't
Speaker 1: gone all the way through it, but it seems like
Speaker 1: it's like specifically about the independent comedy scene in the
Speaker 1: exact time that I'm like it just starting with how
Speaker 1: far back did you go? Is it pre two thousand? Well?
Speaker 5: I think I think it technically goes back to the
Speaker 5: seventh Oh wow, I think Andy Kindler talks about the
Speaker 5: seventies and the timeline hang on, it's dated nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 5: I guess is the oldest. But I think Kendler talks
Speaker 5: about a little bit before that, but I guess James
Speaker 5: of domiin clocked it where he said I was like
Speaker 5: born and grew up or he moved there in eighty.
Speaker 1: Nine, and that was like the earliest interview. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: specific year I had.
Speaker 5: But Killler talks a lot about Kidler, Karen, Greg, Greg Barrets, yeah,
Speaker 5: Greg Bearris, Yeah. They all talk a lot about Pardo,
Speaker 5: about the time that I wasn't in Los Angeles yet,
Speaker 5: so they I mean the time that I didn't spend
Speaker 5: in the independent scene. I moved here in two thousand
Speaker 5: and four, and so I kind of came in right
Speaker 5: before UCB opened up right and went to like house
Speaker 5: party shows and like that happened in garages and stuff,
Speaker 5: and like you know, like Saw Holy Fuck came and
Speaker 5: started doing stuff right before we started Super Serious show,
Speaker 5: and and the Comedy Bureau kind of came after us
Speaker 5: and then start this you know, meltdown started happening right
Speaker 5: after we started Super Serious, and then it kind of,
Speaker 5: you know, a melt down weekly started happening. Jonah was
Speaker 5: doing it monthly, but you know, so it kind of
Speaker 5: it kind of all culmuinated, I think, and really took
Speaker 5: off in like twenty ten, but in a way that
Speaker 5: we all knew it pre pandemic. You know, we're like
Speaker 5: tons of like there's a lot of independent Like the
Speaker 5: independent communy seam was very vibrant in Los Angeles, I
Speaker 5: feel like, and maybe it's most vibrant it's ever been.
Speaker 5: And you know in the city where like there were
Speaker 5: so many shows in so many ways to see comedy,
Speaker 5: and so many places for comedians to get up. Comparatively,
Speaker 5: I'm sure like people would argue that they still had
Speaker 5: hard time printing sets and New York still had more
Speaker 5: sets as a.
Speaker 1: Whole or money maybe back then. Yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 1: the brag about New York. Yeah, we moved here around
Speaker 1: the same time. You pretty much listed every yeah, the
Speaker 1: history of my being here.
Speaker 5: But so yeah, but so I got a lot of
Speaker 5: great historical contexts and things that I kind of knew
Speaker 5: from like Dana and Karen and that whole gang, and
Speaker 5: they didn't know, you know, and things that I kind
Speaker 5: of got clarified and stuff along the way in the interviews,
Speaker 5: which was really interesting for me as somebody who loves
Speaker 5: comedy and who has produced it for so long and
Speaker 5: found independent comedy, of course to be important, as is
Speaker 5: club comedy, but independent comedy to be important just to
Speaker 5: get people places and spaces to do stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always tried to do both, and I yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't even separate the two anymore. I like that
Speaker 1: they're kind of just becoming the same thing.
Speaker 3: That was the funny thing in the nineties because I'm yeah,
Speaker 3: so I was here probably a decade before you guys,
Speaker 3: because I moved here in ninety four, and it absolutely
Speaker 3: was the dawn of club comedy versus yeah, what they
Speaker 3: called alternative comedy, and it was very which is just
Speaker 3: what the era was like, just incredibly anti. So it
Speaker 3: was like you were supposed to pick a team or
Speaker 3: a side or a type. But I had started in
Speaker 3: clubs because that was essentially all there was, because I
Speaker 3: started in San Francisco with Greg Barrett and a lot
Speaker 3: of those the people that are in this book and
Speaker 3: who and everyone migrated down to La because clubs started
Speaker 3: closing up there, and you know, being a club comic
Speaker 3: was basically it was basically like you were just going
Speaker 3: to get in line to see if you could eventually
Speaker 3: get booked and move your way through this kind of
Speaker 3: pecking order, and then moving to LA it was like
Speaker 3: everything broke up in real wide and it's like you
Speaker 3: can go do a show with people who headline at
Speaker 3: the Improv, but it's down at a cafe in your
Speaker 3: own neighborhood and you can get stage time, you can
Speaker 3: practice stuff, you can do kind of you can find
Speaker 3: your voice before you get ready for this the finalized
Speaker 3: memorized Polish performance.
Speaker 1: Which was so cool.
Speaker 3: It was just the opposite of how I started, because
Speaker 3: it was like, my my nervousness when I started stand
Speaker 3: up was just like you had to be good already,
Speaker 3: even though you know, you just started. You my jokes
Speaker 3: were garbage upon garbage, but you just you You were
Speaker 3: in a club, so you kind of had to meet
Speaker 3: the standard basically, figure figure it out, you know, do
Speaker 3: what you can, whereas down here it just felt like, yeah,
Speaker 3: there was much more that concept of experimental comedy or
Speaker 3: like get on stage and see what's actually funny before
Speaker 3: you take it to the clubs where because it's LA,
Speaker 3: so people, it's tourists paying a bunch of money. They
Speaker 3: want a good show, they want consistent laughter, so you
Speaker 3: can't you know, I don't know. It was an interesting thing,
Speaker 3: and it was funny that they tried to turn it
Speaker 3: into the you know, they tried to turn into like
Speaker 3: the Civil War, where it's like pick your side and
Speaker 3: you're supposed to hate people in the club comics fucking
Speaker 3: hate it. Alternative commage not funny. It's like, okay, well
Speaker 3: it's just it was insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5: Do you know something, I've never thought of this before
Speaker 5: this moment, but like I remember Dana talking to me
Speaker 5: about like when he started his first independent show WHI
Speaker 5: Jeane Grafolo. It was because the owner of the Improv
Speaker 5: came up to him when he was trying some new
Speaker 5: stuff out at like a weekly show, not a weekend show,
Speaker 5: but like a weekly show. I mean they're still paying
Speaker 5: plenty of money for a weekly show. But he was like,
Speaker 5: these people aren't paying for your experiments. And Dana was like,
Speaker 5: I don't I live here, Like I need to work
Speaker 5: on material before I got in the road, And so
Speaker 5: he started an independent show at bookstore Janine for them
Speaker 5: to specifically work out material. But having the war between
Speaker 5: quote unquote alternative and club, where did the quote unquote
Speaker 5: club comics work out material?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: I mean, that's just it I've never really thought about
Speaker 5: it because now the worlds are so blended, or you know,
Speaker 5: pre pandemic, they were so blended that they could go
Speaker 5: to like independent shows because independent audiences don't care if
Speaker 5: you're a quote unquote club comic as long as you're
Speaker 5: not like, I don't know, I guess ending every joke
Speaker 5: with like.
Speaker 1: Or something like that. I don't know.
Speaker 3: That's just I think that was word that was part
Speaker 3: of the argument was if you only if like the
Speaker 3: time that you get on stage to try new stuff,
Speaker 3: it is in front of three hundred people in like
Speaker 3: the main room, you know, the comedy store mainroom, that
Speaker 3: you are going to tend toward crowd pleasing material That
Speaker 3: might not be the best material. It might just be
Speaker 3: clap trappy, you know, shock value, whatever that it's that
Speaker 3: it's going to bend your ear toward crowd pleasing as
Speaker 3: opposed to what's funny. What I think is amazing about
Speaker 3: your story is Dana Gould. He was a headliner in
Speaker 3: San Francisco when I started, So I've seen I've seen
Speaker 3: Dana do one hundred sets probably and I've never seen
Speaker 3: him beat him. Trying new stuff was anybody else's perfect
Speaker 3: polished seven minutes, So the balls of whoever that motherfucker
Speaker 3: was who was just like, yeah, people aren't pain to
Speaker 3: watch you works about It's like, I can't imagine Dana
Speaker 3: being like rough even mediocre in anyway. He is such
Speaker 3: a constant like he is. That's just mind bogging. And
Speaker 3: it's the kind of thing where it's just like, that's
Speaker 3: I think the the concepts were too narrow, and I
Speaker 3: think that idea of just like what if lots of
Speaker 3: other things were funny, and what if you could bring
Speaker 3: something polished that was weird to the stage and then
Speaker 3: get people to laugh at that? You know, God forbid,
Speaker 3: you get these people's ear to change to what they're hearing.
Speaker 3: So it's not just like, you know, it's not just
Speaker 3: the same rhythm, the same concepts, the same topics all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, And what's I think I think what really
Speaker 5: melded the worlds together was I It's been an interesting
Speaker 5: thing from the Oughts to now where Hollywood has right
Speaker 5: like famously, like so many of writers from the Simpsons
Speaker 5: were found at like Luna Lounge and stuff and and
Speaker 5: what so, Hollywood has been drawn to the independent comedians
Speaker 5: in the independent rooms and finding and scatting people through that,
Speaker 5: and then that you know, Sarah Silverman and stuff has
Speaker 5: driven Hollywood material and so then those people get famous
Speaker 5: on that level and then are able to go and
Speaker 5: do clubs more freely.
Speaker 1: And then it's like a cyclical.
Speaker 5: Thing that feeds itself, so that you know, motion Natasha
Speaker 5: or something, we're in independent rooms only. But then as
Speaker 5: they get famous and rise in a Hollywood standard, then
Speaker 5: they're more acceptable at clubs because club owners are like, oh,
Speaker 5: you're famous, so you can draw an audience, and then
Speaker 5: they do club you know, and it's a very funny.
Speaker 5: It's a very funny thing. Like famously, Kristin I think
Speaker 5: just did the improv for the first time like within
Speaker 5: the past like three years. Yeah, that's that's that's crazy
Speaker 5: to me that you know, it's taken there.
Speaker 1: And I was surprised that there was comics I worked
Speaker 1: with when I'm sorry, comedy comedy Uh comedy store, oh right, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: I immediately just thought the comedy store because that's that's
Speaker 1: so many that used to be a scary place that
Speaker 1: there was hard to park and I didn't want to
Speaker 1: go there, and now all my friends are there and
Speaker 1: it's it's totally changed the environment. But when I would
Speaker 1: were in Austin open for these comp like Robert Hawkins
Speaker 1: was a guy that didn't seem like a road comic.
Speaker 1: He was really goofy and weird, but he lived in
Speaker 1: this city. And when I moved here and of course
Speaker 1: contacted him because I didn't know anyone, really, I was
Speaker 1: so surprised to hear that he, Oh, I just go
Speaker 1: on the route the road. I don't really perform in town.
Speaker 1: Why do you live in Los Angeles? And I tried
Speaker 1: to convince him, and I did to do UCB one night,
Speaker 1: to do the comedy Death Ray Show because I knew
Speaker 1: he'd do well because he's a you know, a bizzar mind,
Speaker 1: and and it seemed like he was kind of intimidated
Speaker 1: by the alternative scene. He's like, I don't think they'll
Speaker 1: accept me. So it's funny. Ever, both sides to this thing,
Speaker 1: we're thinking the same thing. They're not going to accept
Speaker 1: me as a mainstream comic, and then vice versa. The
Speaker 1: working road comics are.
Speaker 5: Like, meanwhile, that audience could exactly. Audience is like you
Speaker 5: were funny, audience.
Speaker 1: Never has differentiated. Yeah, And that is like the real
Speaker 1: like line.
Speaker 5: I think I've watched it happen so many times in
Speaker 5: like hot tub where it's a famous comedian and they're
Speaker 5: working out stuff and the audience is like, no, that's
Speaker 5: not funny, and they're like, okay, thank.
Speaker 1: You so much for that. Honestly, yeah, yeah, yeah, there
Speaker 1: is a bit of that. I almost feel like in
Speaker 1: this city, it's people can smell when you're doing your material.
Speaker 5: But I think it's also like you, we've definitely trained
Speaker 5: a specific audience that enjoy the process, which I think
Speaker 5: is really cool.
Speaker 1: I don't think that every audience is like that. There.
Speaker 5: They enjoy watching comedians workout stuff and being part of
Speaker 5: it in that way, and I think also I know
Speaker 5: that that's challenging sometimes when comedians want to just like
Speaker 5: go and do a set that's easy for them, and
Speaker 5: like go and do stuff that they know is going
Speaker 5: to be good, or they want to get a good
Speaker 5: tape or whatnot. But I think it's cool that the
Speaker 5: audience is in Los Angeles want to like watch the
Speaker 5: process because it's not something I mean, something that I've
Speaker 5: always loved, but it's not something that every audience wants, which.
Speaker 1: I think is well.
Speaker 3: I think energy of the difference between when you're watching
Speaker 3: somebody kind of like you know, shoot for Shoot for
Speaker 3: the Moon as they're doing their stuff, where it's almost
Speaker 3: like they're talking over the audience and out into some
Speaker 3: like the camera of life of like here's my here's
Speaker 3: the fifteen minutes that's going to you know, make or
Speaker 3: break me, as opposed to a person that's kind of
Speaker 3: on stage and it's it's stylistic too, because I think
Speaker 3: that it blended into the style of it seems like
Speaker 3: this is off the top of your head, or it
Speaker 3: seems like or people that got smart about like don't
Speaker 3: save the crowd work for you know, like you can
Speaker 3: you can walk on stage and immediately do crowd work.
Speaker 1: It's actually a very.
Speaker 3: Bold move and it makes the audience go, oh shit,
Speaker 3: they really are like And I think that difference is
Speaker 3: there are people who are like it's it's the uprising
Speaker 3: of the comedy nerd, because there are people who are like,
Speaker 3: just like I like to laugh and they're sitting there
Speaker 3: and it's like that's great, and they'll never go, oh
Speaker 3: that's I've seen this bit before, or this is a
Speaker 3: very common trope. There are people who are just like
Speaker 3: I'm here to have fun and I don't care, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't care what happens. But people who follow comedy,
Speaker 3: you walk on stage and you get a certain tone
Speaker 3: in your voice, and they immediately are like m mmm,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, So they're the expectation is
Speaker 3: I want to see you walk the tightrope a little
Speaker 3: bit and earn that badge of bravery and improvisation. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like then the ucbness of it all
Speaker 3: started blending together, where it's like you could do improv,
Speaker 3: you could do stand up, you could do both, you
Speaker 3: have all you can flex all these different ways. Then
Speaker 3: that makes me think of there's so many shows I've
Speaker 3: been to where people who clearly are from improv get
Speaker 3: up to do sets and they fucking eat it. So
Speaker 3: really because they're doing a character. They're doing a character
Speaker 3: of a comedian, right, So it's like it's all very
Speaker 3: kind of insincere and like three feet away. And I
Speaker 3: feel like the true comedy fan really wants to feel
Speaker 3: like your heart rate, you know what I mean. They
Speaker 3: want to know you're right there delivering you know, fresh
Speaker 3: new Like I just feel like that's maybe that's just
Speaker 3: my expectation of like, no, I think they want you
Speaker 3: to give them something.
Speaker 1: New and risky, like they want you to risk it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know what I always tell a lot of
Speaker 5: times when we have like British comedians, you know, who
Speaker 5: come over and do hot tepar, a super serious show,
Speaker 5: they'll kind of ask about the audience and like ask
Speaker 5: how it's different and stuff. And the thing I always
Speaker 5: tell people and I and I and lots of the
Speaker 5: times I wish somebody had told me this earlier in America,
Speaker 5: and it's like such a very simple thing.
Speaker 1: I was like, in these rooms, you just need to.
Speaker 5: Talk to the audience and not at them, like and
Speaker 5: it's I know, it's like a mind fuck of a
Speaker 5: thing because you're like I am talking to them. You're
Speaker 5: like no, but you're you're talking to that back wall,
Speaker 5: you're talking to that invisible camera. You're you're too presentational sometimes,
Speaker 5: you know, And and they just want you to talk
Speaker 5: to them.
Speaker 1: They're there, They're part of the show.
Speaker 5: They're an integral part of your experience as a comedian
Speaker 5: and the experience of the show as a whole. And
Speaker 5: that is the main difference I think between a big
Speaker 5: clubroom and a big independent room.
Speaker 1: Is they just want to be talked to.
Speaker 3: And you can actually like I taught myself a couple
Speaker 3: of tricks, which is definitely make a joke about one
Speaker 3: of the last jokes the comment.
Speaker 1: Before you yeah, yeah, I do it all the time, right,
Speaker 1: you got.
Speaker 3: To do that, because then that's saying I'm I've also
Speaker 3: been in the audience along with you this whole time.
Speaker 1: I know what's going on.
Speaker 3: And then something about while you're doing your set, which
Speaker 3: clearly is I mean that was also the pain of
Speaker 3: being a guitar comic. There's no way to pretend you're improvising,
Speaker 3: there's no way to pretend you're not doing a polished thing.
Speaker 3: And also as you're doing it, you're just stuck inside it.
Speaker 3: You can't bail, you can't do anything else. You're just like,
Speaker 3: now here's my three minute presentation or whatever. It's so painful.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I whenever you say guitar comic, I know
Speaker 1: you as a regular stand up and then I also
Speaker 1: know you as a musician, so sometimes I would see
Speaker 1: you do stand up and also play songs. But when
Speaker 1: I hear guitar comic, I think of parody, like goofy songs.
Speaker 1: I know the rhyme and they're about farting and I'm
Speaker 1: in Tulsa and the guy is a cowboy hat I don't.
Speaker 1: I'd like it if you didn't just call yourself a
Speaker 1: guitar comic, you are I get a comedy show.
Speaker 3: If you're on a comedy show and you walk out
Speaker 3: wearing a guitar, the audience is.
Speaker 1: Like the audience in rooms like this.
Speaker 3: I think if it was you know, like at the Improv,
Speaker 3: they it's a little show, it's like, oh, it's exciting.
Speaker 1: I was I used to It would.
Speaker 3: Blow my mind how well those weird little songs would
Speaker 3: do at a place like the Improv, because I would
Speaker 3: be like, oh, I don't think these you know, these
Speaker 3: tourists aren't gonna like it. And it's like these days
Speaker 3: and that was, you know whatever mid two thousands, everybody
Speaker 3: has has comedy chops. These days, everybody knows comedy, everybody's
Speaker 3: it's around so much. It's become so kind of ubiquitous
Speaker 3: in so many different ways that everybody has a little
Speaker 3: bit of good taste. Obviously it's like, oh I like
Speaker 3: this type of comic of that, But ultimately I think
Speaker 3: so many more people these days appreciate like a original
Speaker 3: joke or a well thought out, you know, well planned joke,
Speaker 3: like it's just funny. How I feel like I've starting
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety, you know, and then performing in the
Speaker 3: two thousands. I feel like the audience has evolved for sure. Well.
Speaker 1: I think podcasts, I mean did a lot of that.
Speaker 5: I mean, podcasts brought comedians into this space of the
Speaker 5: fans and the most personal way where they listen to them.
Speaker 5: I mean, like I listen to podcasts the most when
Speaker 5: we go on like road trips and we drive a lot,
Speaker 5: and it's like, oh, I've listened to like eight hours
Speaker 5: of the Dollup or something, and so I just feel
Speaker 5: like I've been hanging out with Dave and Garrett and
Speaker 5: like there they are my friends, but it feels more
Speaker 5: personal to me, like they've been with me on this
Speaker 5: road trip, which.
Speaker 1: They have not been.
Speaker 5: They have like I know them and more friends, but
Speaker 5: they have not.
Speaker 1: Been with me on this road trip.
Speaker 5: And so I can imagine for like somebody who doesn't
Speaker 5: know comedians, that that feeling would be the same. And
Speaker 5: I think that then that evolve the audiences of stand
Speaker 5: up in a very cool way where they became more
Speaker 5: fandom definitely towards the podcast that they love, but they
Speaker 5: also had a different relationship with comedy and comedians and
Speaker 5: maybe understood them more and understood where their comedy comes
Speaker 5: from more and understood who they are as people more,
Speaker 5: which is something that non comedy like non stage comedians,
Speaker 5: but who exist in comedy like myself, were probably the
Speaker 5: only people who understood that balance and that life style
Speaker 5: in that world, you know, pre podcasts.
Speaker 1: So it's it's I think it's been a few the
Speaker 1: last few years for me. The audiences. It's people that
Speaker 1: kind of know me already, and it's become At first
Speaker 1: I was taken aback by it, and now it's so
Speaker 1: comforting to know that I'm like safe in front of
Speaker 1: these sweet people that listen to podcasts. It's the it's
Speaker 1: the best.
Speaker 3: It's really nice. You don't have to you don't have
Speaker 3: to be like, let me my favorite phrase, world, let
Speaker 3: me tell you a little tithing about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you're thinking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, always followed up with just nothing personal and a joke.
Speaker 3: But yet it is the the The other funny thing
Speaker 3: is and Chris, I think I know you witness this
Speaker 3: happen when April and I did that show at the
Speaker 3: Improv Lab that was the beginning of My Favorite Murder,
Speaker 3: and a bunch of or some of our listeners would
Speaker 3: come to that. Yeah, but they were podcast listeners, so
Speaker 3: they were super quiet, like they wouldn't even It was
Speaker 3: hilarious the first couple of shows where I'd just be like, you, guys,
Speaker 3: this is a different thing.
Speaker 1: You're not sitting in your car into work. Yeah, yeah, there,
Speaker 1: You're not going to get trouble in trouble at your
Speaker 1: desk if you laugh about love. But I've gotten used
Speaker 1: to it, I can tell. I just pay more attention
Speaker 1: visually to the look on people's faces, and I'm okay
Speaker 1: with it not being uproarious laughter. Actually yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: lot of times when a crowd was that and they're
Speaker 1: laughing at everything, I'm like, I don't believe you. You're
Speaker 1: all just drunk and trying to be entertained. I had
Speaker 1: to do, uh what was that that VH on stand
Speaker 1: up show? Oh?
Speaker 3: Rose O'Donnell hosted it first. Do you remember you know
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Stand up? Stand up?
Speaker 5: I believe I know, I know what you're talking about
Speaker 5: I remember when they shot a stand up show at
Speaker 5: the Highs House, but I didn't know it was it
Speaker 5: was and.
Speaker 3: It went on for years, and the audiences knew they
Speaker 3: were on a TV show. It was like, and it
Speaker 3: was produced for TV and whatever I got, I got
Speaker 3: booked on it, and I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: this is amazing.
Speaker 1: I walked out and I did.
Speaker 3: I went into the setup of my first joke, and
Speaker 3: at the end of the first sentence, the audience burst
Speaker 3: out laughing so.
Speaker 1: Loud that I like didn't.
Speaker 3: I like, was like whoa, And I kind of got shook.
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know what's going on, and
Speaker 3: the and the the audience was just laughing at pauses
Speaker 3: because they knew they were on TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was one of the war sets.
Speaker 3: And I've almost strictly done terrible television sets.
Speaker 1: Early days by choice.
Speaker 3: Early days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, bye.
Speaker 3: But that one was mind blowing because I was just like, oh, this,
Speaker 3: you guys, this isn't about my creative mind or these
Speaker 3: wonderful concepts I'm.
Speaker 1: About to present you.
Speaker 3: They're just like I'm where we live in LA, where
Speaker 3: actors were the audience. We're gonna give you audience, so
Speaker 3: it's just like, ah haha, nonsensically it was.
Speaker 1: It was upsetting. They they reposted my old premium Blend,
Speaker 1: which was two thousand and three, and those they get
Speaker 1: those audiences. It was like a casting service or something.
Speaker 1: And I accidentally mentioned that New York. I just said
Speaker 1: New York and the whole crowd started screaming and hood
Speaker 1: and I literally plugged my ears and said no, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't, oh no, my ears. Plugged my ears and
Speaker 1: said my ears because I did not expect that to happen.
Speaker 1: It threw me off so much, and luckily they edited it.
Speaker 3: I think, honestly, I think the set I did, if
Speaker 3: it ended up on the air, which I don't know
Speaker 3: if it did, but if it did, it was two
Speaker 3: minutes long. They cut it down to nothing because I
Speaker 3: think because I just kept like flinching at the audience's response.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's how it's going to be now in coming months,
Speaker 1: people are going to be so excited to see comedy.
Speaker 1: I'm actually very much looking forward to it, but I
Speaker 1: wonder if the audiences will be rusty just like the comedians.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that they'll be so excited. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but I'll still take a really long time before we're
Speaker 5: going to have full rooms again.
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, the audiences will be excited, they'll also
Speaker 3: be shit faced up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably right.
Speaker 5: It's going to be an interesting walk back. I think
Speaker 5: into that space and into like them consuming comedy not
Speaker 5: from their living rooms again, you know, and not from
Speaker 5: because they can mute themselves and they can talk and
Speaker 5: do things.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I think that they'll all be very excited.
Speaker 5: To come back, and I truly can't wait to pack
Speaker 5: the virtual shoulder to shoulder. Yeah, but I was gonna
Speaker 5: say that, like super serious shows, audiences have always kind
Speaker 5: of been like that where they're like will you call
Speaker 5: them theatrical audiences where they would clap and they'd be
Speaker 5: like this is funny. I'm quiet now, yeah this is funny,
Speaker 5: and so like there's no there's none of the rolling
Speaker 5: into the things, you know. They they want to like
Speaker 5: listen so intently and make sure they don't miss anything,
Speaker 5: and there's too polite.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's something about the acoustics of that stage or so,
Speaker 1: because I feel like every show like that, I just
Speaker 1: I always feel that experience. Yeah, whenever, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, it's it's an interesting thing, and so I think
Speaker 5: it's it's so polite when audiences do that, and they're
Speaker 5: just they're they're trying to be differential. They're trying to
Speaker 5: give what they believe is the right risk back to
Speaker 5: the comedian. Yes, And what they don't know is like
Speaker 5: we just want you to laugh, like yeah, that's that's
Speaker 5: that's like laugh We don't laugh. Like we judge everything
Speaker 5: by your laughter or not your laughter, Like you know,
Speaker 5: it is like the barometer that this show lives and
Speaker 5: dies by.
Speaker 3: I do like the fact that audiences have developed that
Speaker 3: understanding about like being quiet and not talking and you
Speaker 3: know what I mean that honestly, starting in clubs in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety you were just fighting, drink noises, just full
Speaker 3: on conversational chatter at tables.
Speaker 1: I mean like they were fighting so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was if you were the opener or
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like lowered or if it
Speaker 3: was like a showcase night, it was just a battle.
Speaker 3: So the fact that it is slowly developed into this
Speaker 3: kind of thing where like the people who were sitting
Speaker 3: there didn't get free tickets off the radio. They're sitting
Speaker 3: there because they want to be there, and they know
Speaker 3: people on the.
Speaker 1: On the show. Yeah, when someone heckles, now, I'm like,
Speaker 1: did you just step off a time machine?
Speaker 3: Up?
Speaker 1: Even in the audience too, they're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: a heckler. You want to look at him?
Speaker 5: I'm also so confused constantly. And I've had it where
Speaker 5: I've had a few friends who have done this, and
Speaker 5: I found I found it really hard, even as somebody
Speaker 5: who works in comedy to have this conversation with him.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're a positive heckler. They're like yes, like,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they don't. They don't need that.
Speaker 5: They're fine, yeah, like laugh, Like all they want is like,
Speaker 5: don't tell them they're unless they ask for like a
Speaker 5: rhetorical yes or something. Why are you They don't need
Speaker 5: your encourgiment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just the audience member that's like uh huh oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm with you, I'm with you. You're doing great.
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, I know you think you're doing such
Speaker 5: a nice thing, but please stop positively heckling.
Speaker 1: It's really hard.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think they're doing a nice thing. I
Speaker 3: think they're doing a narcissistic actory thing or a kooky
Speaker 3: like either they're on something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's la stuff.
Speaker 3: Of making it about you, where it's just like there's
Speaker 3: I will always always get women who are drunk who
Speaker 3: are like, oh like, because I'll say something that they
Speaker 3: find so, you know, like I can't.
Speaker 1: Believe she's said it or whatever, where.
Speaker 3: It's just like okay, but this isn't about you and
Speaker 3: your college experience. Like it's hilarious to me, and.
Speaker 1: It also makes me.
Speaker 3: I am always very mean to those people because it's
Speaker 3: just like, just don't do it. And also, this is
Speaker 3: my job as a comic, Like you've now put a
Speaker 3: target on your forehead. It doesn't matter how much you
Speaker 3: love me, because I have to Now if I'm ever
Speaker 3: going to get on YouTube as comedian who destroys.
Speaker 7: Heckler, oh god crossed, I'm going to have to attempt
Speaker 7: to descry. I one day hope to own a Heckler.
Speaker 7: Oh own them, that's the next level you can destroy that.
Speaker 1: Sorry are you?
Speaker 5: Are you discussing like owning a human being?
Speaker 1: That's judging by what all these YouTube videos I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot of comedian owns Heckler, and so I guess
Speaker 1: it's I'm sorry, but yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And they
Speaker 1: come live at your house and uh, and then they
Speaker 1: do like this couch, it's really comfy. Yeah, they become
Speaker 1: your pool boy, kind of like Hardcastle and McCormick, a
Speaker 1: show that I should have referenced.
Speaker 5: I have had a son like Kurt out before. I'm
Speaker 5: been like, hey, we have a positive Heckler in the crowd,
Speaker 5: so I need you to do a thing where you
Speaker 5: tell everyone not to hackle. That's a video like the things,
Speaker 5: but I also explain that like positive hecklean's bad too, Okay,
Speaker 5: thing's bye.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good luck Kurt. This weekend, I'm doing an
Speaker 1: outdoor jazz festival and I feel so rusty, but it's
Speaker 1: out I'm actually looking forward to. If there is a
Speaker 1: band on stage, I'm gonna sit in with them and
Speaker 1: do mouthhorn. I'm very excited about that. Where is this?
Speaker 1: Where is San Diego? Oh? And is it daytime? I
Speaker 1: think it's early evening. Yeah, but it's I've as told
Speaker 1: it's outdoor. I will be nowhere near anyone, just go
Speaker 1: directly onto a stage. And so I agreed to do it,
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of looking forward to it just because
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be doing this again. But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I really want to sit in with an actual
Speaker 1: brass band and like it's gonna be great. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a good mouth worn this. I mean I infamous.
Speaker 1: It's it is the opposite of famous. It's infamous.
Speaker 3: Mandy, do you have any like the best, uh the
Speaker 3: best thing that you ever saw happen at a show,
Speaker 3: or your favorite moment or something along those lines. Having
Speaker 3: watched what ten thousand hours of stand up comedy, like
Speaker 3: any of those kind of beautiful live show moments that
Speaker 3: can only happen at live shows, I.
Speaker 5: Think that, Yeah, I think that the ones that are
Speaker 5: always in my memory are the ones that only happened
Speaker 5: that one time. That And it could be Worry doing
Speaker 5: an all improvised set. It could be a crowd work
Speaker 5: moment with Andy Peters where somebody breaks the glass and
Speaker 5: then it leads them onto a weird train where he's
Speaker 5: like interviewing the person and then like has bits about
Speaker 5: their life. But it could also be like Dimitri Martin
Speaker 5: going saying a new one liner for the first time
Speaker 5: and seeing it doesn't work and then commenting on the
Speaker 5: audience reaction to it. Like all of that stuff that
Speaker 5: is like irreplaceable and non rep like you can't repeat it. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it is so precious, I think to me in comedy,
Speaker 5: that's the thing that I think I realized early on
Speaker 5: as somebody who consumed comedy, and then when I started
Speaker 5: producing it, I think when you think back to your
Speaker 5: favorite memories, it's like and it's like even like sometimes
Speaker 5: Karen is like the little in betweens you used to
Speaker 5: have in your songs, you know, like those weren't rehearsed,
Speaker 5: and those were really off the cuff and like you
Speaker 5: kind of commenting on the audience or like talking about
Speaker 5: the room or the space, or like you know, a
Speaker 5: drunk woman coming up to stage at south By Southwest
Speaker 5: to talk to Barn about like something that upset her,
Speaker 5: you know, with security closing in because we weren't sure
Speaker 5: exactly what she was going to do.
Speaker 1: But it's all those like moments that what it won't
Speaker 1: ever happen A yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love it
Speaker 1: when I love it when an audience recognizes it as
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime moment and then they clap, they
Speaker 1: recognize that, well, we've been left. Let's clap for that
Speaker 1: because that was a moment in time. I love that
Speaker 1: moment where they decide to clap instead of they're acknowledging
Speaker 1: that it was, oh, an artistic moment just happened. The
Speaker 1: best feeling I miss it.
Speaker 5: I mean then when you like you talk to people
Speaker 5: like I remember the first like high planes that we
Speaker 5: went to, Like Reggie had a big, you know, closing
Speaker 5: set that was very fun, but it's also the highest
Speaker 5: I've ever seen Reggie like ever, And I talked to
Speaker 5: her about it all the time because I'm like, do
Speaker 5: you remember that one set when Rochie was like it
Speaker 5: was like so hot, you know, and so like you
Speaker 5: can then have that moment with that person or those
Speaker 5: people that were with you that nobody elseo really ever
Speaker 5: be able to experience because they went there and it's
Speaker 5: you can explain it to them, and you can tell
Speaker 5: them and they can kind of conceptually understand it, especially
Speaker 5: if they're in comedy a lot. But it's something that's
Speaker 5: just it's just so special when it happens and it's
Speaker 5: just there and it's live.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's what a lot of times
Speaker 1: when you film comedy and you cut a.
Speaker 5: Ten minute set down to two minutes, or a seven
Speaker 5: minute set down to two minutes for a TV show,
Speaker 5: and then the people who watch it are like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is so like stunted and like stiff. It's because
Speaker 5: that's not their real set, that's not their real thing.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like it's inauthentic to the comedian. It's not a
Speaker 5: good representation of who they are on stage and right,
Speaker 5: and you know, it's like the best version of it
Speaker 5: that's been recorded, as like Jimmy Pardo's crowd Work album,
Speaker 5: which I don't know if you ever I could like
Speaker 5: listen to that over and over and over again. It's like,
Speaker 5: I don't even think he meant like he was recording
Speaker 5: an album, but he just did crowd Work for an
Speaker 5: hour and.
Speaker 1: It was so funny. Oh yeah, and it was just unbelievable.
Speaker 5: But it was just like perfect in the way of
Speaker 5: capturing that energy that's so hard to capture on film
Speaker 5: and in an album and in a way that feels
Speaker 5: real and not staged.
Speaker 3: You know that it just made me think that if
Speaker 3: I had to pick someone for that, I most of
Speaker 3: the time, it's been memories of watching Andy Kindler because
Speaker 3: when Andy starts eating it, like there's a dynamic Andy
Speaker 3: brings out where the comedians can't stop laughing because the
Speaker 3: audience is not laughing, and Andy is reading off his
Speaker 3: index cards and then getting mad and then having and
Speaker 3: then getting really funny. But he loses the audience, he
Speaker 3: gets them back, he loses them again, and like the
Speaker 3: the journey, the journey and the dynamism of his performances
Speaker 3: are have always been so amazing that to me, that's
Speaker 3: it's those comics that are like, I think he's one
Speaker 3: of those people that defies all of that. He's a
Speaker 3: club comic, he's an alternative comic. He can do everything
Speaker 3: because every time he's on stage, he's absolutely like, oh, smoopy.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you like that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like he's constantly confronting the audience about what they are
Speaker 3: or are not doing.
Speaker 1: It's just, yeah, I miss life for he is the
Speaker 1: comices acknowledges every moment as it's happening every moment, and yeah,
Speaker 1: he's the only person where I'm like watching him and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, God, he's a genius. While simultaneously the audience
Speaker 1: it's a little confused. There's the way he deals with
Speaker 1: that is, Oh, it's my favorite.
Speaker 3: He likes he gives the opportunity he gives the audience
Speaker 3: the opportunity to judge and dis miss him, and it's
Speaker 3: like he's like because since because some of his jokes
Speaker 3: are incredibly corny, but they're usually the kind of current
Speaker 3: event ones like and then he but then he just
Speaker 3: starts ripping through those cards.
Speaker 1: It is just like it's that kind of thing where you're.
Speaker 3: Watching the audience think they're the expert when actually the
Speaker 3: expert is in charge, Like the expert is doing it
Speaker 3: on purpose.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I remember, yeah, I remember in like late Obama years,
Speaker 5: he would do hot Tub and the audience that hot
Speaker 5: Tub is very progressive. I would say that they were,
Speaker 5: you know, as a whole Bernie supporters. Yeah, if you
Speaker 5: had to, like, you know, paint them with one brush.
Speaker 5: But so he would say something positive about Obama and
Speaker 5: the audience and be like, no, we don't know, he's
Speaker 5: not progressive enough for us, and it would kind of
Speaker 5: catch Andy off guard because he'd be.
Speaker 1: Like, Oh, this is going to be a thing that's
Speaker 1: going to be fine, and then it wouldn't.
Speaker 5: And watching him recruit from that while comments and unrecouping
Speaker 5: from that, while commenting on how we thought it was safe, well,
Speaker 5: commenting on how we thought it was to progressive, was
Speaker 5: such a very funny like loop of information, and then
Speaker 5: it would eventually break the audience, you know, and like
Speaker 5: watching that moment when the audience.
Speaker 1: Finally gets on board with that is so perfect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a really good way of putting it. Stacking comment
Speaker 1: commenting on the comment on the comment, it's the best
Speaker 1: until they're finally like, okay, you got us, now we know,
Speaker 1: now we understand, we've just learned something. Thank you.
Speaker 5: It is like kind of like taming a wild horse.
Speaker 5: I remember the very first I think when we started
Speaker 5: Hot Sub Curt and Christen were there for like the
Speaker 5: first year and a half, like straight and it's.
Speaker 1: Never ever happened again.
Speaker 5: But and then the very first guest host we had
Speaker 5: with Sean Patten, and he had to like it was
Speaker 5: like breaking a horse. He had to like go into
Speaker 5: the audience. He had to work so hard. And when
Speaker 5: he finally broke them and got them on board, because
Speaker 5: they were just mad that Curt and Kristen weren't there, right,
Speaker 5: They're like, m how dare you?
Speaker 1: This is my favorite horsey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, But when he finally broke them, then he started
Speaker 5: the show and it was such a magical thing to
Speaker 5: watch a comunian and be like, no, no, no, you're
Speaker 5: gonna get on board with me. We're gonna have fun tonight.
Speaker 5: I don't care what it costs. I will stand up
Speaker 5: here and say brown butter baby until I'm blue in
Speaker 5: the face.
Speaker 1: That's the best. It's so funny that I thought before
Speaker 1: this that you had done the podcast with Joel. But
Speaker 1: I just because I love going to the airport. One
Speaker 1: time I was picking up Nate, and Nate Craig had
Speaker 1: flown with you or something or ran into you at
Speaker 1: the airport, and I did pick you up. I did
Speaker 1: drive you home, but we just weren't recording.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, it was just me and you weren't
Speaker 5: there yet all these I definitely do not remember being
Speaker 5: in a car from the airport with Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was. It was just me, it was,
Speaker 1: But in my mind, I was like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember vividly. We all used to live on the same
Speaker 1: set of town. You moved, Yeah I did. I moved
Speaker 1: moved to the old Echo Park area. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: no longer near that airport, and I don't miss it.
Speaker 1: Karen and I neither of us missed the airport.
Speaker 3: We really don't miss driving to Los Angeles with International
Speaker 3: Airport all the time.
Speaker 5: A lot of where you guys were taking people right
Speaker 5: for the real Yeah, you can't fly on a burbank
Speaker 5: usually unless you are a millionaire.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we quickly are so much, so much more, so
Speaker 1: much more. Man. Did you have anything to plug anything?
Speaker 5: Yeah, book, I do want to plug the airbnbm at
Speaker 5: I'm staying. And I know listeners you can't see this,
Speaker 5: but I'm saying this very beautiful airbnb. That is Abbey Launders.
Speaker 5: That is Moonridge Cottage on Airbnb. It's up in Big
Speaker 5: Bear and it's beautiful. It's a three bedroom, two bath
Speaker 5: and it is lovely and it's very cozy and comfortable.
Speaker 5: And I just think that anybody who's up in this
Speaker 5: area I should stay here.
Speaker 1: I'll stay there moon Ridge mm hmmm. Yeah. And she
Speaker 1: has a dear friend of mine.
Speaker 5: But it's also the first Airbnb I've ever stayed in
Speaker 5: where I'm like, oh, I kind of feel at home,
Speaker 5: like you know, sometimes they have those uncomfortable couches or like, yeah,
Speaker 5: the furniture is just kind of.
Speaker 1: Weird, you know what I mean, It's just not quite right.
Speaker 1: This one.
Speaker 5: I actually like, I'm like, oh, this feels like I
Speaker 5: would live here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that you're plugging an air. You're supposed
Speaker 1: to be a producer and plug my book.
Speaker 5: Where anywhere anywhere books are sold, super serious in oral
Speaker 5: history of independent stand up comedy in Los Angeles. And
Speaker 5: we're still doing hot sub home edition, which you can
Speaker 5: find us on YouTube and the easiest way is to
Speaker 5: go to our Instagram Twitter and just click on the
Speaker 5: link tree and it'll take you right to the place
Speaker 5: to watch us and as every Monday night at eight
Speaker 5: pm Pacific.
Speaker 1: That's terrific. And you can see me doing mouthhorn at
Speaker 1: a series of outdoor jazz festivals. Just kidding this one.
Speaker 1: Are you going to plug the one your past? It's tomorrow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about something from the past, a classic podcast mistake.
Speaker 1: You know what, Chris, when we come back to live shows,
Speaker 1: I'll book you, but just for mouthhorn. Oh I hey,
Speaker 1: it's a challenge accepted. Thank you.
Speaker 3: You could be Chris could be the opening act mauthhorn
Speaker 3: behind a mask.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you just kind of set that toned.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys like Mangione but really muted. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: many thank you so much for being here with ye.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that I thought you'd been on before. My memories get crossed,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's love.
Speaker 5: I've done more podcasts than ever in my whole life,
Speaker 5: and they've been all nerve rocking and terrifying, but also
Speaker 5: very fun because I'm just talking to friends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just to hang out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all. Let's pretend we were just at a party, Karen.
Speaker 1: When parties come back, I am still going to come
Speaker 1: and cook for yours. Oh oh, and I'm coming. We
Speaker 1: made that plan. Yes, we did in February. February of
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Yeah, no, I'm twenty twenty. Did we do
Speaker 1: it like directly before? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I remember I came over. I made that tomato gilette yo.
Speaker 5: We had dinner and you were like, I'm going to
Speaker 5: do monthly parties and I was like I want to
Speaker 5: cook for them, and then like and you were like, great,
Speaker 5: we'll plan one from March, and then like two weeks
Speaker 5: later we were like, I guess that did never realize that.
Speaker 3: Was like I didn't realize it was in February.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Oh what then I was just like, see
Speaker 1: you later. I won't be answering your text the next year.
Speaker 3: Food.
Speaker 1: I know you have all those daily harvests. We can
Speaker 1: just blend up a couple of daily harvests. I was like,
Speaker 1: do you have enough food to eat?
Speaker 5: Just me checking all my friends? Are you gonna start
Speaker 5: to death?
Speaker 1: Thanks for never Thank you man. Absolutely great to see you.
Speaker 1: Great to talk to you. You've been listening to Do
Speaker 1: you need a ride? D y n A to hear
Speaker 1: that horn? Oh boy, oh my god, that's that's nice.
Speaker 1: That's good, that's good.
Speaker 2: Are leaving on you wanna way back?
Speaker 1: Either way?
Speaker 2: We want to be there, doesn't matter how much baggage
Speaker 2: you clean. Give us time and turman On and Gabe.
Speaker 1: We want to send you off in Stormer.
Speaker 2: You want to welcome you back home. Tell us all
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: We scared her? Was it fine?
Speaker 3: Melbourne?
Speaker 1: Do you need to ride? Do you need to ride?
Speaker 1: Do you need to ride?
Speaker 2: Do you need to ride?
Speaker 1: Do you need to ride? Do you need with Karen
Speaker 1: and Chris