WEBVTT - Ep 1 Influenza Will Kill You

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, and welcome to this podcast Will Kill You. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Erin and I'm also Erin. Thanks for joining us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for tuning in. This is our very first episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Why are we here, Erin, Well, we just really like

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<v Speaker 2>talking about infectious diseases and we decided to start this

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<v Speaker 2>podcast as an outlet to talk about them more.

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<v Speaker 1>And we are graduate students currently studying disease ecology and epidemiology.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not posing as experts, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>But we really like learning about this stuff and figure

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<v Speaker 1>that other people might like learning about infectious diseases too.

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<v Speaker 2>So every episode we'll focus on one particular infectious disease.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to start with some basic definitions, then talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the biology of the pathogen, hit you with some history,

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<v Speaker 1>then round it off with what the status of the

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<v Speaker 1>disease is today.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll end each episode by letting you know just

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<v Speaker 2>how scared you need to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to episode one.

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<v Speaker 2>Today we're talking about influenza.

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<v Speaker 1>What is considered America's greatest pandemic.

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<v Speaker 2>Possibly the greatest pandemic of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>Depending on your metric. Right, we'll get into that.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll get into it, So pull up a chap pull

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<v Speaker 2>yourself a drink, and let's get started bringing it back

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<v Speaker 2>to nineteen eighteen. What are you drinking over there, Aaron?

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<v Speaker 1>What are you drinking? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm drinking a quarantiney.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, so am I What kind of quarantine

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<v Speaker 1>are you drinking? Today?

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<v Speaker 2>We're drinking the h one drink one inspired by the

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<v Speaker 2>classic cocktail from the eighteen hundreds called Corpse Reviver.

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<v Speaker 1>Corpse Reviver, this is actually a Corpse Reviver two. Your

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<v Speaker 1>multiple variants.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you'd like to follow along and drink or

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<v Speaker 2>should I say, if you'd like to drink along and

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<v Speaker 2>you can make your very own by mixing what is it?

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<v Speaker 2>Equal parts gin lemon juice, quantrout and Lillet, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a weird sounding French liquor. You can find it at

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<v Speaker 2>the liquor store, mix.

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<v Speaker 1>And serve over ice.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really delicious, surprisingly great for something named corpse Revivor.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually this is a little bit of pre trivia. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>this was a popular drink in the nineteen during the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen pandemic.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Yeah, that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So every week we're going to be drinking quarantinies

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<v Speaker 1>named with our own special names inspired by classic drinks

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<v Speaker 1>or ones that we make up on our own, and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll post the recipes and if you want to drink

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<v Speaker 1>along with us, please do so.

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<v Speaker 2>We would love that. So let's define some of the

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<v Speaker 2>words that people might not know that we're probably gonna

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<v Speaker 2>use a lot, both in this episode and going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start off with epidemic.

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<v Speaker 2>So, an epidemic is an outbreak of a disease that

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<v Speaker 2>is greater than what we would normally see in that

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<v Speaker 2>particular population.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and so I often hear the word pandemic. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell me what that is?

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So, a pandemic is essentially just an epidemic that

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<v Speaker 2>has spread to be in many countries and or usually

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<v Speaker 2>the entire globe.

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<v Speaker 1>What about pathogen.

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<v Speaker 2>A pathogen is a bacteria, a virus, or even a

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<v Speaker 2>parasite such as a worm, that causes disease. Let's jump

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<v Speaker 2>right in. I'm going to take you back all the

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<v Speaker 2>way back to nineteen eighteen. That was the year in

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<v Speaker 2>case you didn't know, that's the year of the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Influenza pandemic. So we're going to start with some first

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<v Speaker 2>hand account ounce So just to really get you in

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<v Speaker 2>the mood of what life was like during this pandemic.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you ready, I'm ready, Okay. I'll read you a

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<v Speaker 2>few first hand accounts from people I guess most of

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<v Speaker 2>whom survived since they were able to write their account.

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<v Speaker 1>After Oh there are some of that didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>There are some that didn't. This is a story from

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<v Speaker 2>Josie Mabel Brown. These are from the documentary which you

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<v Speaker 2>can find on YouTube called The American Experience Influenza nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen or something similar to that. So this is Josie

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<v Speaker 2>Mabel Brown's story. She was a nurse at the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Lakes Naval Station during the nineteen eighteen pandemic, and this

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<v Speaker 2>story was told by her niece. Her niece said, as

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<v Speaker 2>she walked into the ward, not only were the forty

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<v Speaker 2>two beds full, but there were boys that were laying

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<v Speaker 2>on the floors and on the stretchers waiting for that

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<v Speaker 2>boy in the bed to die. They were having raging

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<v Speaker 2>fevers and delirium and profume snowsebleeds, and their lungs would

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<v Speaker 2>collapse and it would go into this horrid, bloody pneumonia.

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<v Speaker 1>That sounds more like it's from a movie script right

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<v Speaker 1>than it does real life. And that was real life

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<v Speaker 1>in nighttore that was ninety nine years ago, this time

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<v Speaker 1>of year.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's terrifying. We've got another one. This is doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Victor Vaughan, who, Yeah, I don't know right, it's exciting.

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<v Speaker 2>He was at a base near Boston called Camp Devns.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, this is his actual words, He said, I

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<v Speaker 2>saw hundreds of young stalwart men, which I assume that

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<v Speaker 2>means like a strapping young man, stalwart young men in

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<v Speaker 2>uniform coming into the wards of the hospital. Every bed

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<v Speaker 2>was full, yet others crowded in their faces, wore a

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<v Speaker 2>bluish cast, a cough brought up blood stained, spewedum. Sixty

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<v Speaker 2>three men died the day he arrived at Camp Devans.

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<v Speaker 2>That's at one camp alone on one day. Remarkable, remarkable,

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<v Speaker 2>It's incredible. And I think I have one more story

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<v Speaker 2>that I'd like to tell just because it's well, I've

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<v Speaker 2>got a grave digger story. But like, who doesn't have

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<v Speaker 2>a grave digger story?

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<v Speaker 1>So this is I want to hear the grave story.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Uh. The grave Digger story is from Arthur Dory

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<v Speaker 2>Davis and this is not from that same documentary. This

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<v Speaker 2>is actually you can find these on the CDC, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the Centers for Disease Control website. They have this

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<v Speaker 2>very fascinating storyboard all about the nineteen eighteen flu with

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<v Speaker 2>tons of survivor and also not survivor sufferer stories told

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<v Speaker 2>from either first person perspective or from their immediate family,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's absolutely fascinating. So here's one of those stories.

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<v Speaker 2>This man, Arthur Jerry Davis, was worked at like a

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<v Speaker 2>logging camp and his family was in Tennessee during the flu,

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<v Speaker 2>and so this is one story that he told his son.

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<v Speaker 2>One morning, at six am, I was set to work

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<v Speaker 2>digging three graves for a family of six that lived

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<v Speaker 2>down the road from my home. Around nine am, the

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<v Speaker 2>doctor sent word to dig yet another grave. Then around

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<v Speaker 2>lunchtime I got word to dig yet another grave, and

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<v Speaker 2>by four pm I was instructed to dig the final

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<v Speaker 2>grave for that entire family. Oh my god, I know

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<v Speaker 2>it's depressing. Starting with a down.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even imagine what it would be like. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean one of us. I mean think about.

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<v Speaker 2>You're a teacher, kind of sure will you teach a class? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Think about going to class one day and realizing what

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<v Speaker 1>proportion of those kids, because we're they're all the ripe ages.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll find out right, would not be coming to class

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<v Speaker 1>a month from now because they'd be dead of influenza.

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<v Speaker 2>That's absolutely terrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it would be insane. Plus not to mention

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that college classrooms are kind of a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>place to breed this.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh they're filthy, filthy, disgusting human scholar student. Yes we are, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so maybe well we'll leave it at that. Was that

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<v Speaker 2>depressing enough to sort of start us off with influenza?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. I think I think it gave us

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<v Speaker 1>a sense of time and place. So zooming out from

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<v Speaker 1>those stories, let's talk a little bit about the history

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<v Speaker 1>of influenza itself. Now, all of us, I'm sure know

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<v Speaker 1>have or I've heard about seasonal flu. Get your flu shot,

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<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah. Oh I can't come in. I have

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<v Speaker 1>the flu. I have stomach flu. Not really, that's flu.

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<v Speaker 2>That's probably for a different day that we'll talk about that.

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<v Speaker 2>But the stomach flu, guys, it's not flu.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not influenza. So influenza is a viral infection and

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<v Speaker 1>it has been around for millennia. We don't know exactly

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<v Speaker 1>how long because the symptoms of flu are so general, vomiting, nausea, fever, listlessness, listlessness.

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<v Speaker 1>That it's a really hard line that it's It's unclear

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<v Speaker 1>whether a lot of the epidemics that have been written

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<v Speaker 1>about in history are flu or it could have been

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<v Speaker 1>some other respiratory ailment, could have been mnemonic plague. But

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<v Speaker 1>it does seem clear that there are some in Europe

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<v Speaker 1>in the twelfth century, in the fifteenth century, in the

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<v Speaker 1>sixteenth century that can be pretty conclusively tied to influenza.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's fascinating that it goes that far back.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, oh, it goes even farther back. So the first

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<v Speaker 1>what research what historians call reliable description of influenza was

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<v Speaker 1>done by Hippocrates himself, oh my god, the father of

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<v Speaker 1>Western medicine. What we do know for certain is that

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<v Speaker 1>the influenza virus was the causative agent for the huge

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<v Speaker 1>pandemic in nineteen eighteen that killed wait for it, fifty

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred million people worldwide.

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<v Speaker 2>Fifty to one hundred million people.

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<v Speaker 1>So before we were diving into the pandemic itself, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to bring you up to data bit about sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the context, the historical context surrounding this huge pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about Western medicine at the time, so

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<v Speaker 1>Western medicine was in its infancy, really bacteriology. So throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the eighteen hundreds, early to mid eighteen hundreds, bacteriology really

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<v Speaker 1>got up and running. We had Pasture discovering a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of bacterial posative agents of diseases. There were some innoculations

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<v Speaker 1>going on vaccines, Edward Jenner with his smallpox hit in

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<v Speaker 1>the late seventeen hundreds. Epidemiology began as a science in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen fifty four.

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<v Speaker 2>Fascinating and we'll talk all about that in a future episode,

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<v Speaker 2>won't we.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we will thank you John snow not from Game

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<v Speaker 1>of Thrones, different John snow So. But despite all of

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<v Speaker 1>the advances of medical research, medical practice was really lagging

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<v Speaker 1>far behind. And this was due to a multiple factors,

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<v Speaker 1>one being that germ theory was still kind of debated,

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<v Speaker 1>so germ theory was not widely accepted.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you explain a little bit what germ theory.

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<v Speaker 1>Got to ask you to do? Aaron, Can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>us what germ theory is.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love to. Germ theory is essentially just the idea

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<v Speaker 2>that many diseases, most normally we think of infectious diseases

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<v Speaker 2>are actually caused by micro organisms rather than just say

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<v Speaker 2>the air or the water, which is what was very

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<v Speaker 2>commonly thought before we realize that there are organisms that

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<v Speaker 2>are so small that you can't actually see them with

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<v Speaker 2>the human eye, and that's what actually is causing many

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<v Speaker 2>infectious diseases.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, excellent explanation. So yes, so germ theory was

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<v Speaker 1>not widely accepted among doctors, and even if it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>widely accepted, a lot of physicians practicing physicians were never

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<v Speaker 1>given a class in this medical school was totally achievable

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<v Speaker 1>for any human being who had enough money. Oh dear,

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<v Speaker 1>you could spend a couple of years in US medical

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<v Speaker 1>schools up through like the early nineteen hundreds prior to

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen eighteen flu. You could spend a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years in medical school taking some courses, never actually see

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<v Speaker 1>or interact with a patient, and graduate with a medical degree.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>As a result, there was a lot of mistrust among doctors.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctors, completely understandable.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, doctors back then didn't have the respect that

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<v Speaker 1>they do today in terms of oh this stop, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to go to the doctor and I know that

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<v Speaker 1>they will fix my ailment. So consider the time nineteen eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>even though there was a lot of work being done

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<v Speaker 1>on bacteria, there was still no antibiotics, right, so you

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<v Speaker 1>could there were inoculations, so you could to some degree

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<v Speaker 1>could be protected against some diseases, but a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>ones there was nothing that you could do. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen during the flu pandemic, alcohol was prescribed. I mean, Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can get be behind that, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to help you.

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's really it's it's going to make you feel

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit better because you forget how much pain

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<v Speaker 2>you're in, but it's certainly not going to cure any

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<v Speaker 2>of your ailments.

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<v Speaker 1>So the other thing, besides the complete lack of adequate

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<v Speaker 1>medical training going on in nineteen eighteen, there was also

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<v Speaker 1>a war going on.

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there wasn't there. It was kind of like,

0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, the First World War.

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 1>The war to end all wars, not if only that

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:34.480
<v Speaker 1>were the case. What this meant war means guess what

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:40.440
<v Speaker 1>large scale transport of young men throughout the entire world, and.

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Crowding very very much and also very unsanitary conditions.

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Very unsanitary they were, I mean.

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Like digging pits and things and just hundreds of people

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 2>all slumped together, and you know, probably poopin and holes

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:58.240
<v Speaker 2>and things, probably pupinin holes, probably pupinin holes. It was.

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.080
<v Speaker 1>It was basically it set the stage for perfect conditions

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 1>for transmission of influenza. So let's get to the pandemic itself. Ooh,

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 1>let's we'll head to Haskell, Kansas, early nineteen eighteen.

0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Kansas of all places. Yeas, let's go Kansas. I'm

0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:18.480
<v Speaker 2>there here we are.

0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 1>A doctor named Loring Minor began to see cases of

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>influenza that were a lot more severe than he had

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>previously encountered. So he and this was also notable because A,

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 1>like I said, it was a lot more severe. But

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 1>b it was also impacting young, strapping men otherwise the

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 1>people who are least susceptible to influenza.

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Right because generally it's what old people and tiny little

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>babies that actually get sort of severely sick from something

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.119
<v Speaker 2>like influenza, right.

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Right exactly. He made a note of this, and he

0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:01.160
<v Speaker 1>sent off some letters and some notes medical journals to

0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 1>public health officials saying, hey, can you help me? Can

0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.800
<v Speaker 1>you send some things like this is a problem, And

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.040
<v Speaker 1>he got no response, Oh.

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 2>My god, just a man trying to be proactive.

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Just trying to be proactive. And so by this these

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 1>cases started popping up January February, but by mid March

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 1>the epidemic had burned itself out. Basically good news, good news, right, Yeah,

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>it didn't burn out before a couple of soldiers returned

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>from Haskell back to their back to Camp Funston.

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Funston.

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not very fun I don't think. Where is Camp Funston,

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 1>also in Kansas, oh Okay, where a super cold winter

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 1>meant that they had to put a bunch of soldiers

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>together in barracks much more crowded than they would ever

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 1>have allowed before, which led to rapid spread of this

0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 1>virus throughout the entire camp. Within a few days, people

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 1>like hundreds of soldiers were sick. And it didn't remain,

0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 1>of course, isolated at Funston. Because of the war, soldiers

0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.680
<v Speaker 1>were being sent to other places in the US, other

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>camps in the US, over to France, over to England,

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 1>and thus began the first wave of the pandemic.

0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, way to go Kansas, Way to go Kansas.

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 1>More on that it might not be actually Kansas in

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>this first in what historians called the first wave of

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>the pandemic. Tens of thousands of soldiers were hospitalized, but

0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 1>very few died, which is interesting. Yeah, during this first

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.280
<v Speaker 1>wave is where Spanish influenza picked up its name.

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, let's talk about its name, because a lot of

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>people think, if it's called the Spanish flu, it must

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.040
<v Speaker 2>have come from Spain, right.

0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 1>Not so?

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh fascinating.

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Actually, so, there are a number of theories as to

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:02.320
<v Speaker 1>where Spanish flu actual began, but none of them are Spain.

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.399
<v Speaker 1>The likeliest scenario by according to a lot of historians,

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:14.439
<v Speaker 1>is Kansas Haskell Kansas, France is another contender where birds waterbirds,

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.880
<v Speaker 1>and pigs domestic pigs mix.

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 2>I'll talk a lot about birds in just a minute.

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 1>And so, but the reason that it got the name

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Spanish flu is because Spain was neutral during World War One,

0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 1>whereas countries like the US, England, France, Germany, all of

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>whom were very hard hit by this first wave, censored

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 1>their news.

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, the US censored their news.

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Shocking, shocking. So a lot of this came off of

0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.439
<v Speaker 1>I thought this was really fascinating. It came off of

0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Woodrow Wilson, who was president at this time. Passed what

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.840
<v Speaker 1>is called the Sedition Act of nineteen eighteen, and it

0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>prohibited the use of quote disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive

0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>language about the US government It's flag.

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, aren't we doing that again too?

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 1>M or its armed forces, or that caused others to

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>view the American government or its institutions with contempt.

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, my jaw is on the floor.

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 1>So this meant that a lot of news about the

0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.880
<v Speaker 1>flu was kept under wraps because it would have made

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.680
<v Speaker 1>the US look weak, right and bad. And it also

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.040
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, they're just there's so much I could keep

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.040
<v Speaker 1>talking about that. Yeah, Oh, I mean this there could

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>be an entire someone should I'm sure there is one

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 1>a podcast episode on this Edition Act. Because it is dirty.

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>They used it to say, like if you were walking

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>down the street and you said this war sucks, you

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 1>could be put in prison. Wow, it was that kind.

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Of that's absolute insanity.

0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 1>M hmm. It's up there with some of the.

0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Bady hopefully not what we're about to get into current.

0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Where's that drink?

0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't you go? During the first wave, the flu

0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>raged globally from around March to June through August wow.

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Between for instance, between June first and August first, over

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.600
<v Speaker 1>two hundred thousand British soldiers who were stationed in France

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.119
<v Speaker 1>were hit hard enough that they could not report for duty.

0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 1>So this is two hundred thousand out of two million, wow,

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 1>which is ten percent.

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>That's ten percent of the soldiers were sick enough that

0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't even get up and stand at their bunks

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.400
<v Speaker 2>or whatever you have to do when you're a soldier.

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, it was. It was really bad. But then

0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>August came around and it was gone.

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Wo.

0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.159
<v Speaker 1>So it's good news, wonderful. Episode over, episode over. Not

0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:55.679
<v Speaker 1>so fast, not so fast, the second wave began. So

0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 1>the second wave was the more lethal wave, and it

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>first took hold on us soil by many accounts, at

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Camp Devns outside Boston. Oh, we already heard a little

0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 1>bit about Camp Camp Devans.

0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I sure did.

0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.640
<v Speaker 1>And this started in mid September. Up to twenty percent

0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of soldiers were sick at one time, and descriptions of

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the progression of the disease ooh, were horrifying.

0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Tell me them. I want to hear that.

0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Oh, I have a big section on this later.

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh good, good, good.

0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Within actually we'll just do all the symptoms right now,

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.640
<v Speaker 1>within a couple of hours of admission with standard flu symptoms.

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we're talking like aches, chills, fever, et cetera.

0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm. Patients were turning blue because their lungs could

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 1>no longer transfer oxygen into the blood.

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>So let's hear some more symptoms of the nineteen eighteen

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 1>flu Let's extreme pain, body pain, so much so that

0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 1>physicians at the time were not sure whether it was

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>actually Dungey fever also known as breakbone fever, because it

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.199
<v Speaker 1>is so extraordinarily painful. Wow, cyanosis, which is what I

0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 1>just mentioned right.

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 2>That's turning blue, like your actual skin is blue like

0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:12.480
<v Speaker 2>a smurf.

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Bleeding from mucous membranes, so your nose. Sometimes doctors reported

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.080
<v Speaker 1>blood spurting out, oh the nose.

0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Blood spurting out of your nose.

0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 1>To a couple of feet away, Holy cow, dribbling from

0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.000
<v Speaker 1>your mouth, your eyes ears.

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 2>And if you're a woman, your vagina, well doesn't that

0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:34.520
<v Speaker 2>happen anyways, you know.

0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.120
<v Speaker 1>That's why it took so long to be noted as AI.

0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just your woman problems. Don't worry, go home. Tend

0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:42.360
<v Speaker 2>the children.

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well they couldn't because pregnant women face the highest

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 1>mortality rates of all. All internal organs were affected, so

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you would have necrotic adrenal glands, dry brain tissues, which

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:00.000
<v Speaker 1>indicated Yet.

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Your brain dried out. Bro, If you didn't know this,

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>your brain is literally sitting in a pool of fluid.

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Is not supposed to be dry.

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.600
<v Speaker 1>The folds got all weird, and the brains, yeah, brains

0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.480
<v Speaker 1>dried out. Torn or degenerated muscles associated with coughing.

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:17.639
<v Speaker 2>You cough so hard that you rip your muscles of

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:19.120
<v Speaker 2>your diaphragm and stuff.

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Eh, and lungs that looked so bad upon autopsy. Doctors

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 1>compare their condition to pneumonic plague, which is the second

0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.479
<v Speaker 1>most lethal form of bubat of your Cinnia Pesta's plague,

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 1>which causes death in ninety percent of its victims.

0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Don't worry, We're gonna have a two part episode dedicated

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to the plague.

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah we are. Or toxic gas. Wow, it destroyed the lungs.

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean they would fall apart. It was. It's horrifying, Wow, horrifying.

0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Here's another very unique symptom of the

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen flu accumulation of pockets of air just beneath

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.680
<v Speaker 1>the skin, so that when a patient was turned over

0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 1>to maybe change the bedding there's, their bodies would crackle

0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.440
<v Speaker 1>like One Navy nurse compared the sound to rice crispies.

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, like rice crispies.

0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 1>She said she could never eat the cereal again.

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I don't know if I can, except

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 2>let's be really, I can definitely eat.

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:20.600
<v Speaker 1>They get way too soggy.

0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Waste of time, That's all I'm saying.

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 1>So it was horrifying. I mean it was so it

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 1>was would some people would come in within a few

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.800
<v Speaker 1>hours be dead. It was unheard of for flu.

0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean still to this day, that's absolutely insane. Well yeah,

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of, we'll see, is it really? I don't know.

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.439
<v Speaker 1>So what happened? So this this was not this incidant

0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 1>was not isolated at Devons, the extreme mortality. It spread globally.

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.160
<v Speaker 1>And but but if it was this the same virus

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 1>that caused the first wave, and if so, how did

0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:01.000
<v Speaker 1>it pick up pathogen or how did it pick up it? Right?

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.160
<v Speaker 1>One hypothesis is antigenic shift. Oh, erin, can you tell

0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:06.600
<v Speaker 1>me a bit more about antigenic shift.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, let's let's let's do that. Let's talk

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 2>about the flu virus. There's a couple of words that

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to define so that then we can sort

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:22.360
<v Speaker 2>of talk about the flu virus in general. So one

0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 2>of them you already mentioned, which is virulence, and the

0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:29.600
<v Speaker 2>other word is infectivity. So I'm just gonna really quickly. Infectivity,

0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 2>for anyone who doesn't know, is essentially the percentage of

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 2>people that are exposed to a disease that actually get infected,

0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:42.960
<v Speaker 2>So it tells you how well infectious and infectious disease

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 2>actually is. So let's say I'm sick with the flu

0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and I cough on you, maybe you'll get the flu

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.040
<v Speaker 2>and maybe you won't. And infectivity determines how many people

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>that I cough on will get the flu. Right.

0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Do different flu strains have different levels of infectivity?

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely So clearly the nineteen eighteen flu was

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.639
<v Speaker 2>a particularly infectious strain. It was able to sort of

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.400
<v Speaker 2>travel the globe, and in general, flu viruses are very

0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:13.400
<v Speaker 2>infectious compared to something that, say, like sexually transmitted such

0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 2>as HIV. Okay, and then virulence, which is essentially if

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 2>you do get infected how likely is it that you're

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 2>going to get very, very sick and or die. So

0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:27.160
<v Speaker 2>that's what your virulence is. So this nineteen eighteen strain

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.879
<v Speaker 2>was both very infectious and extremely virulent. It was killing

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:35.159
<v Speaker 2>a ton of people. Flu viruses, the influenza virus for

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:37.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I guess how many people are listening

0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:39.840
<v Speaker 2>to this that don't know what a virus is. Let's

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 2>let's just define it difine virus. Let's define it. We're

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 2>starting from day zero. So viruses are essentially just little

0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:51.800
<v Speaker 2>bundles of genetic material surrounded by protein. Right, Viruses have

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>proteins on their surface that our cells are immune cells

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.879
<v Speaker 2>used to recognize them. These proteins are called antigens, and

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 2>we make antibodies to fight them.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Makes sense, makes sense.

0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 2>So flu happens to have two of these antigens, H

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.679
<v Speaker 2>and N. So if you've heard of H one, N

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>one or whatever, yeah I have. Okay, yeah, So that's

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:15.680
<v Speaker 2>what that actually means, is the proteins that are on

0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.600
<v Speaker 2>the outside of the actual flu virus itself. It just

0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:21.760
<v Speaker 2>so happens that there are sixteen of those H proteins

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 2>and nine different versions of that N protein.

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:27.320
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of combinations exactly.

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 2>So, the flu virus is what's called a retrovirus, which

0:26:32.040 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 2>is a type of RNA virus. That means that the

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:39.160
<v Speaker 2>genetic material that makes up the flu is RNA. In humans,

0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 2>it's DNA.

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Gotcha, gotcha.

0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 2>RNA viruses and retroviruses especially have a really high mutation rate.

0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:53.440
<v Speaker 2>They're so retro get it because they're retro viruses. It's

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.360
<v Speaker 2>like nineteen eighteen.

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Do retro people have higher mutations?

0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:02.560
<v Speaker 2>It's just like a funny joke play on word.

0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Can we get a cricket sound please? Cricket? Thank you?

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:13.400
<v Speaker 2>So what that means a high mutationary means that every

0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:17.200
<v Speaker 2>time an influenza virus replicates, it might make a few

0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:20.840
<v Speaker 2>mistakes that could result in small changes to those H

0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:23.720
<v Speaker 2>and N proteins that make it harder for our body

0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.360
<v Speaker 2>to recognize it. And this process, if you care about vocabulary,

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:28.959
<v Speaker 2>is called antigenic drift.

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Gotcha.

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Now, the other way that flu viruses can change, which

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is even more dramatic, is what's called antigenic shift. Basically,

0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:42.040
<v Speaker 2>the flu virus isn't just a single strand of RNA.

0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 2>It's a bunch of short strands. So if for example,

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>as often happens, an unlucky pig or an unfortunate bird

0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:55.680
<v Speaker 2>is infected with not one, but two different strains of flu.

0:27:56.280 --> 0:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Like H one N one and H three N three.

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, those can inside of the bird or pig mix

0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:08.119
<v Speaker 2>and match and recombine to make like H one and

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:12.119
<v Speaker 2>three or H three and one. And this is what

0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:15.600
<v Speaker 2>makes it really hard for our immune system to actually respond.

0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:20.800
<v Speaker 1>And so that is shift. That's a major change, exactly,

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and drift is small changes which are less scary exactly.

0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 1>And so antigenic shift, then is what is theorized to

0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:35.719
<v Speaker 1>have happened in the nineteen eighteen second wave pandemic. One

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.040
<v Speaker 1>of the reasons that they think that this is the

0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:40.960
<v Speaker 1>case that it was an antigenic shift rather than a

0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:46.240
<v Speaker 1>completely new virus, okay, is that a lot of the

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 1>people who were infected during the first wave showed immunity

0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 1>or partial immunity to the second wave.

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that makes sense.

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:59.840
<v Speaker 1>So that makes sense. So now we've got this horrifying,

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 1>the virulent virus right that is wreaking havoc in the

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:12.640
<v Speaker 1>military in the US, just raging in France and England

0:29:12.680 --> 0:29:15.760
<v Speaker 1>and Germany, and it doesn't stop there. It spills over

0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 1>into the public and there it's even worse in some places.

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:23.920
<v Speaker 1>So a lot of the anecdotes that I'll be mentioning

0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 1>in terms of the pandemic spread take place in the US.

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:30.280
<v Speaker 1>And that's just because one of the books that I

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>read concentrated on this pandemic in the US.

0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, it doesn't mean that these weren't also happening all

0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:38.320
<v Speaker 2>over the world global.

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>The globe was affected by this, and a lot of

0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>areas were hit harder than the US. So from Camp Devons,

0:29:45.560 --> 0:29:51.080
<v Speaker 1>the virus more deadly this time exploded across the US.

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:54.160
<v Speaker 1>And so one of the places I'll talk about is Philadelphia.

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 1>So Philadelphia was hit extremely hard, partly because the lead

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>public health official at the time refused to cancel parades

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>to say saying that public morale was more important than

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:09.640
<v Speaker 1>and he was like, oh no, the flu is not

0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:11.240
<v Speaker 1>a problem. The flu's not a problem.

0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, yeah. And what's important is that for the

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 2>flu virus, you become infectious, that is, you start shedding

0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>virus out of you, like coughing, sneezing, whatever, before you

0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 2>actually show any symptoms.

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 1>So that means that you could be a happy go lucky,

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:35.480
<v Speaker 1>seemingly healthy twenty five year old woman at this parade

0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>waving a banner meanwhile coughing, really not even coughing, but

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:45.640
<v Speaker 1>just breathing, hugging people and giving kissing people, kissing people with.

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:49.200
<v Speaker 2>The mouth, and just spreading flu virus. And so that's

0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>really really important. It's a really important aspect of the

0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:58.520
<v Speaker 2>flu is that you are infectious before you ever show symptoms.

0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's why it's very, very easy to spread because

0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:03.959
<v Speaker 2>you have these people, like you said, at a parade,

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:07.640
<v Speaker 2>that seem to be perfectly healthy, so you're not afraid

0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 2>of them like you might be of someone who's coughing.

0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>You might avoid a person who's coughing because you think,

0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to get sick, but you don't avoid

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>people that seem healthy, because why would you.

0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, And so at this massive parade in Philadelphia, which

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 1>was not shut down against the advice of virtually every

0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:28.160
<v Speaker 1>other public health official and physician, within two to three

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>days after it, the number of flu cases exploded in

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Philadelphia to be in the thousands.

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:40.240
<v Speaker 1>On one October day in Philadelphia, seven hundred and fifty

0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 1>nine people died of influenza.

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 2>One day, in one day, in one city.

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 1>In one city that's prior to this outbreak of influenza,

0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:54.120
<v Speaker 1>all deaths in the city averaged four hundred and eighty

0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 1>five per week, all deaths for all causes.

0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 2>All causes. Oh my god.

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 1>So it was extra raordinarily bad.

0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah sounds.

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:12.520
<v Speaker 1>The other terrifying thing about the influenza pandemic tell me

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 1>is that the people that were hit the hardest were

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.600
<v Speaker 1>not the people who are usually hit by influenza. So

0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 1>usually the influenza mortality curve, so where you would have

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.960
<v Speaker 1>on the Y axis, on the vertical axis the number

0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 1>of deaths, and on the X axis, the horizontal axis,

0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 1>you would have age in years. So with zero at

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the far left end and let's say one hundred at

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 1>the far right end, normal influenza, seasonal influenza, you see

0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:45.320
<v Speaker 1>a U shaped graph where you see high mortality mortality

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:49.720
<v Speaker 1>peaking in infants and in the elderly, well people and babes,

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 1>old people and babes. With the nineteen eighteen pandemic that

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 1>you was turned upside downce it was actually inverted where

0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you see the highest mortality rates among people. The highest

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 1>was in the group between the ages of twenty five

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>and twenty nine. Wow, followed by thirty to thirty four

0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.280
<v Speaker 1>and then twenty to twenty four. So it hit hardest

0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 1>the groups of people that are normally completely resilient, healthy, young, robust.

0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:17.760
<v Speaker 2>So how did this happen? Was this all just because

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 2>it was a new virus? I mean?

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:23.200
<v Speaker 1>So there are a couple different ideas. Okay, One is

0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:27.080
<v Speaker 1>that the elderly were protected because they had been exposed

0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to a similar virus in their youth. Okay, it doesn't

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 1>match up to some of the other previous epidemics, but

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 1>that still could be the case. Another theory is that

0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 1>young people had also very healthy immune systems, so that

0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:46.920
<v Speaker 1>by the time the virus had invaded all of their lungs,

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the immune response that their bodies mounted was so severe

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:53.920
<v Speaker 1>that it was that that actually killed the people.

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I am shook.

0:33:58.480 --> 0:33:59.600
<v Speaker 1>So does that make sense?

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're saying that because they had such a great

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:07.280
<v Speaker 2>immune system. Essentially that all of the stuff that your

0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:09.439
<v Speaker 2>immune system, which we're not going to get into because

0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:11.840
<v Speaker 2>it's too technical, but all of the stuff that is

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:15.399
<v Speaker 2>released during that immune response essentially is what actually killed

0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:16.000
<v Speaker 2>them and not.

0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:17.760
<v Speaker 1>The virus itself, right, exactly.

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:21.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow, we're like penalized for being good at stuff, I know,

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:22.840
<v Speaker 2>typical young people.

0:34:23.040 --> 0:34:26.360
<v Speaker 1>So it was I mean it was devastating and bizarre. Yeah,

0:34:26.400 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and it caused a lot of panic. It caused a

0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of laws to be enacted, such as anti spitting laws.

0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's probably a good law of is I.

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Mean, yeah, you're who like you shouldn't spit on people anyway.

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.359
<v Speaker 2>But but so if your city has an anti spitting law,

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:44.560
<v Speaker 2>it's probably because of the nineteen eighteen flu.

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:45.520
<v Speaker 1>It probably is.

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:46.280
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome.

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:49.319
<v Speaker 1>Somebody was killed because of because they spat.

0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Wait, like somebody got infected because they were spat on.

0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 1>No, no, I'm sorry, somebody a policeman. I need to

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I need to fact check this. Oh, but let's just

0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 1>say that it's fact. Okay, a policeman killed an individual

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 1>or spitting in the streets in San Francisco.

0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:06.320
<v Speaker 1>It was taken very seriously. Wow, I you could not

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:10.400
<v Speaker 1>go outside without without face masks. But at the same time,

0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:16.719
<v Speaker 1>the public health advice was very influenced by the fact

0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:20.479
<v Speaker 1>that the US was at war, so it was keep

0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>morale up. The ways to avoid the flu were to

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>not talk about the flu. Oh, no, yep. So this

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:30.200
<v Speaker 1>was the genius idea of the same guy who decided

0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to go on with all the parades in Philadelphia, Oh God,

0:35:34.360 --> 0:35:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and don't talk about the flu. Drink alcohol probably probably,

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:44.360
<v Speaker 1>and cheer for your country. With this devastation going on

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:49.680
<v Speaker 1>in the youngest and healthiest populations, the race was on

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.680
<v Speaker 1>to try to find a cure and the causative agent.

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:58.239
<v Speaker 1>For a really long time, the causative agent of influence

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:03.800
<v Speaker 1>was not known, and the biggest contender was this bacterium

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 1>called Hemophilus influenzae, which was found in a lot of

0:36:07.760 --> 0:36:11.240
<v Speaker 1>flu patients. Right, But it wasn't actually.

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:14.040
<v Speaker 2>That obviously because we know now that it's But how

0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.480
<v Speaker 2>did we figure that out? I mean, nineteen eighteen, we

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:18.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't have a lot of technology, right, right.

0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:21.359
<v Speaker 1>No, it took a really long time, and so it

0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:25.240
<v Speaker 1>wasn't actually until a few years ago, within the past

0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:29.360
<v Speaker 1>ten to fifteen years, was it conclusively shown that the

0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:34.319
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen flu was actually an influenza virus.

0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 2>How'd they do that?

0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'll tell you, a bunch of scientists went up

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>to Alaska.

0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Probably put their glasses on because scientists all wear glasses, and.

0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Labco stereotype PPE personal protective equipment.

0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.760
<v Speaker 2>That's not a stereotype. That's important, that's really important.

0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Got our ethics training. So a bunch of scientists went

0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.560
<v Speaker 1>up to Alaska where they where there were graves in

0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:04.799
<v Speaker 1>the permafrost from the nineteen eighteen flu victims, and the

0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:08.439
<v Speaker 1>fact that it was in permafrost means that the conditions

0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:11.040
<v Speaker 1>were such that the bodies could be preserved a lot longer,

0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:15.359
<v Speaker 1>and so the RNA and the viruses didn't degrade as much. Right,

0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 1>that's so cool, super cool. So then they actually dug

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.879
<v Speaker 1>up some bodies. Hope they got permissions, I should have said,

0:37:22.960 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 1>got permission to dig up some bodies and took out

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:30.960
<v Speaker 1>lung tissue in some of the victims, and from that

0:37:31.360 --> 0:37:35.560
<v Speaker 1>isolated the RNA virus, the influenza virus that caused the

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen flu. They sequenced it and they recreated it.

0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.759
<v Speaker 1>Are you serious? So in a lab they recreated the

0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:48.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen strain of flu virus that killed fifty to

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 1>one hundred million people. Wait wait for it. They infected

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 1>monkeys with it and the monkeys died of this. This

0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:02.560
<v Speaker 1>in very similar way that the victims, the young victims

0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of the nineteen eighteen flu virus did, which was their

0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:08.560
<v Speaker 1>immune system just going crazy at the flu virus. Poor

0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:12.680
<v Speaker 1>little monkey, Poor little monkeys. But this also brings to

0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:17.200
<v Speaker 1>mind the ethical dilemma. Yeah, of such work, right, So,

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not talking about testing animals. That's for another.

0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Episode, separate ethical dilemma.

0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, But we're talking about the bioterrorism impact. Yeah, So

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:31.399
<v Speaker 1>when you have this viral genome sequenced, you can publish it.

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 1>It's basically a recipe.

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:34.920
<v Speaker 2>You actually you have to publish it. You do have

0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.120
<v Speaker 2>to publish it, like there are requirements that when you

0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:39.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this is boring for people, but

0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:42.279
<v Speaker 2>if you sequence something novel, you have to publish it

0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:44.880
<v Speaker 2>in a publicly available database. So yeah, in theory, anybody

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:49.799
<v Speaker 2>with enough knowledge and access to laboratory equipment could make

0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:52.839
<v Speaker 2>it and then disseminate it. And it's been long enough

0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 2>since nineteen eighteen that most of us probably aren't immune

0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:56.200
<v Speaker 2>to that.

0:38:57.120 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, except unless you got your flu shot. So every

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:06.400
<v Speaker 1>year the flu shot includes a number of different flu strains,

0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:10.080
<v Speaker 1>right we talked about Yeah, and in two thousand and nine,

0:39:10.520 --> 0:39:14.919
<v Speaker 1>actually they included H one N one variant of nineteen eighteen.

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, oh of nineteen eighteen. Yeah, Oh shoot, I don't

0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:19.880
<v Speaker 2>know if I got my flu shot in two thousand

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 2>and nine.

0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:21.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't think i'd but I mean it probably is

0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 1>worn off by now.

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.800
<v Speaker 2>That anyway, Tue, that's true. But that's really Interesting't that interesting? That?

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I love it? Because it was an H one N

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:31.879
<v Speaker 2>one flu that caused that swine flu outbreak in two

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 2>thousand and nine that people were very worried about that that.

0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it turned out not to be as bad

0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:40.160
<v Speaker 2>as it could have been. But wow, how interesting.

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, by the end of the pandemic, which was pretty

0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:47.640
<v Speaker 1>much over by Armistice November eleventh, I mean it came through,

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:53.360
<v Speaker 1>it swept through the globe and left devastation in its path.

0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Fifty like I said, fifty to one hundred million people

0:39:56.160 --> 0:39:59.359
<v Speaker 1>killed worldwide, some of the areas I just wanted. There's

0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:01.239
<v Speaker 1>some yeah, interesting statistics.

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hit me with them.

0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 1>In the US, about twenty eight percent of people were infected. Wow,

0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:15.319
<v Speaker 1>six hundred and seventy five thousand people died today that

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:20.680
<v Speaker 1>is estimated. That would be over one million, seven hundred

0:40:20.680 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 1>and fifty thousand people.

0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, it would be devastating.

0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God, but the US escaped the mortality that

0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:31.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of other places saw.

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:34.200
<v Speaker 2>So other places had it even worse than six hundred

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:35.720
<v Speaker 2>and seventy five thousand people.

0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, there were entire villages in Alaska that were killed.

0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, entirely everyone dead. I ran between eight

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:49.320
<v Speaker 1>and twenty one point seven percent of the population died.

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:51.880
<v Speaker 2>If you could see my face right now, it's just

0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:54.320
<v Speaker 2>like a shocked, totally shocked.

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:58.960
<v Speaker 1>The worst affected was German Samoa, which is now the

0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Independent Republic of s with ninety percent of the population infected.

0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:08.799
<v Speaker 1>Why thirty percent of adult males, twenty percent of adult females,

0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:10.600
<v Speaker 1>and ten percent of children.

0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Dead Islands Man Islands. It's just so easy to just

0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.840
<v Speaker 2>spread through an entire island.

0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Like that, especially if it hasn't been exposed, especially if

0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:23.839
<v Speaker 1>the population hadn't been exposed to a similar influenza mass.

0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:27.239
<v Speaker 1>So it was truly, it was truly devastating, and so

0:41:27.360 --> 0:41:30.840
<v Speaker 1>one of the questions though, because it had such devastation,

0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:37.439
<v Speaker 1>it caused such high mortality, but why didn't it leave

0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:44.239
<v Speaker 1>its mark in American culture or literature or music or behavior.

0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:49.319
<v Speaker 1>And the answer is it probably did, But overall, I mean,

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:52.279
<v Speaker 1>it didn't leave its mark the way some of the

0:41:52.320 --> 0:41:55.640
<v Speaker 1>other pandemics have left as as obvious a mark. Some

0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:59.439
<v Speaker 1>historians argue that the pandemic accelerated the end of World

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:03.600
<v Speaker 1>War One. The Central Powers were hit harder and earlier,

0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:07.880
<v Speaker 1>or were hit earlier harder by the flu virus, and

0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:12.200
<v Speaker 1>so that weakened their forces, and so then they tried

0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:16.879
<v Speaker 1>to negotiate peace talks earlier on than they had anticipated

0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:19.000
<v Speaker 1>because the Allies were hit later on.

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, so we actually only won because.

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 1>We got sick later, because we got sick later. Wow.

0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:29.839
<v Speaker 1>There was and there was there was one in one

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:33.920
<v Speaker 1>of the books that I read. Some historians have theorized

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:38.239
<v Speaker 1>that Woodrow Wilson came down with the flu and it

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:42.640
<v Speaker 1>changed him his mental state, which was shown in some

0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:47.040
<v Speaker 1>other cases anecdotally in terms of being more aggressive or

0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:50.120
<v Speaker 1>more just a personality, like a permanent change, like a

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:56.920
<v Speaker 1>permanent change. Whoa, And he was way more withdrawn and

0:42:57.040 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 1>way more argumentative, and way more stubborn, and so he

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:05.840
<v Speaker 1>the peace treaty, the armistice that was eventually negotiating. The

0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:09.440
<v Speaker 1>peace treaties that were signed were much more severe towards

0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:13.719
<v Speaker 1>Germany that Central powers than they originally had planned on

0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:18.120
<v Speaker 1>and so that could have contributed to the animosity which

0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:21.120
<v Speaker 1>then built up events leading to World War two.

0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow, which is interesting, that's insane.

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:30.560
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so this, this nineteen eighteen pandemic was enormous

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:36.240
<v Speaker 1>in scope, enormous in death toll. Yeah, and we haven't

0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:40.719
<v Speaker 1>seen anything like it since. In twenty four weeks, the

0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 1>flu virus killed more people worldwide than HIV has killed

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:47.720
<v Speaker 1>in twenty four years.

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, seriously, that's a that's seriously wow.

0:43:55.760 --> 0:43:59.120
<v Speaker 1>So I should fact check that because that statistic is

0:43:59.160 --> 0:43:59.960
<v Speaker 1>from two thousand and four.

0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, we should definitely back check that then. But

0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:05.600
<v Speaker 2>that's still a pretty shocking statistic.

0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Shocking, it's a I mean, it's terrifying to read about

0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:11.479
<v Speaker 1>because this was only ninety nine years ago. We don't

0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:15.879
<v Speaker 1>have treatments for viral infections that are as effective as

0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:17.799
<v Speaker 1>we do for bacterial infections.

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, Viruses are still much trickier, little beastis and a

0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:22.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of that has to do with what we were

0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:26.440
<v Speaker 2>saying before about just how sneaky these viruses are and

0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 2>how mutable they are.

0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Right. So, then the question ill posed to you is

0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:35.280
<v Speaker 1>how worried do we have to be? About another nineteen

0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:36.440
<v Speaker 1>eighteen pandemic.

0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:41.040
<v Speaker 2>It's a really great pandemic. So let me say, can

0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:43.879
<v Speaker 2>I just say you should be worried? Like I mean,

0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I could leave it at that, but I'll elaborate.

0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 1>But tell me why.

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So the flu virus being such a sneaky beastie

0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:59.000
<v Speaker 2>is something that obviously sort of circulates all the time. Right,

0:44:59.040 --> 0:45:02.399
<v Speaker 2>there are seasonal flu strains, and you probably every time

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:04.040
<v Speaker 2>that you go to your doctor between the month of

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:07.959
<v Speaker 2>September two January says word, your lecture got a flu shot?

0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:09.879
<v Speaker 2>You should have you had your flu shot? Yet?

0:45:09.960 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Do you go to a doctor that in the nineteen twenties.

0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's us how my doctor voices?

0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Does see work at a speakeasy here?

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, good trial tonic. I'm all flu shot. But the

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:26.320
<v Speaker 2>vast majority of those flu cases for anyone who doesn't

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.720
<v Speaker 2>get the flu shot, are pretty mild. Right, You're maybe

0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:32.080
<v Speaker 2>miserable for a week, but you recover. You don't die

0:45:32.160 --> 0:45:34.160
<v Speaker 2>unless you're a very old person or a very young person,

0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:38.719
<v Speaker 2>or an immuno compromised person. But there is quite a

0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of concern that a similar thing could happen. As

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.759
<v Speaker 2>to what likely happened in nineteen eighteen. That is a

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:49.719
<v Speaker 2>new strain that we have never previously seen, we being

0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the human race, has never seen before. And if that

0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:57.880
<v Speaker 2>were to happen, yeah, we really could see something similar

0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 2>to what we saw in nineteen eighteen. If you were

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:06.440
<v Speaker 2>to ask most people who work and study infectious disease

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:11.479
<v Speaker 2>epidemics what they're most afraid of, I would put good

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:14.320
<v Speaker 2>money on bedding that they would say.

0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:18.320
<v Speaker 1>H five and one H five and one H five

0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and one. Sorry, I said end one A five and

0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:24.360
<v Speaker 1>one H H five N one.

0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:28.879
<v Speaker 2>Right, So H five and one is avian flu bird flu?

0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Have you heard of that?

0:46:29.960 --> 0:46:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Of course?

0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Right, most people have heard of it. If you haven't,

0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:34.680
<v Speaker 2>you're hearing about it now, so you'll be ahead of

0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.520
<v Speaker 2>the curve. The avian flu is a particular strain of

0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:44.160
<v Speaker 2>virus that circulates in wild like waterbirds, ducks, geese, et cetera,

0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.880
<v Speaker 2>many of which are migratory, and it can also circulate

0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:51.319
<v Speaker 2>in domestic foul so chickens and domestic ducks. And the

0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:53.799
<v Speaker 2>reason that it is so scary is that it has

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.040
<v Speaker 2>been spilling over to humans.

0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.359
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean exactly? Spilling over?

0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:02.120
<v Speaker 2>So spillover is the term that we use when a

0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:06.640
<v Speaker 2>infectious disease that normally circulates only in animals begins to

0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:07.600
<v Speaker 2>infect humans.

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:09.280
<v Speaker 1>Could that be something like ebola.

0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, we'll talk about that in a future episode. Don't worry,

0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, absolutely. Ebola is a very good example of

0:47:16.880 --> 0:47:20.520
<v Speaker 2>a disease that is usually caused by spillover from animal

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 2>populations into humans. And same thing with H five N one.

0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:27.840
<v Speaker 2>So this is a virus that usually circulates in wild birds,

0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:33.359
<v Speaker 2>often spills over into domestic birds, and from those domestic birds,

0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:35.719
<v Speaker 2>it's very easy for it to then spill over one

0:47:35.760 --> 0:47:39.000
<v Speaker 2>more time into the human population, and it has done

0:47:39.040 --> 0:47:42.319
<v Speaker 2>this a number of times. The very first time that

0:47:42.400 --> 0:47:48.680
<v Speaker 2>this happened was in nineteen ninety six or nineteen ninety seven.

0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Nineteen ninety seven was the first human case. It happened

0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:55.680
<v Speaker 2>in Hong Kong. It was a little boy and he died,

0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:59.680
<v Speaker 2>and he became the first known human case of H

0:47:59.760 --> 0:48:02.480
<v Speaker 2>five N one. There were a number of other people,

0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:06.040
<v Speaker 2>seventeen other people in fact, that became infected around that

0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:09.439
<v Speaker 2>exact same time in Hong Kong, and five of those

0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 2>people died.

0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:12.920
<v Speaker 1>But those are very small numbers that you're telling me.

0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:16.640
<v Speaker 1>So does this mean why? Why wasn't there a pandemic.

0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Why wasn't this larger?

0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, so I can hit you with some slightly

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.880
<v Speaker 2>scarier numbers hit me. So that was nineteen ninety seven.

0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:28.799
<v Speaker 2>We're now in twenty seventeen. That's twenty years later. This

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:32.799
<v Speaker 2>bird flew H five N one has spilled over from

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:37.080
<v Speaker 2>domestic animals into humans in sixteen different countries. It has

0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:40.080
<v Speaker 2>infected eight hundred and fifty nine people, according to the

0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:43.560
<v Speaker 2>most recent estimates by the World Health Organization, And of

0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:47.120
<v Speaker 2>those eight hundred and fifty nine cases, four hundred and

0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:49.320
<v Speaker 2>fifty three of them died.

0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Holy moley, that's a fifty.

0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Two percent mortality rate. Fifty two percent. That's why this

0:48:56.760 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 2>virus is so terrifying. So it's true that most of

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 2>these are what you might want to call like isolated cases.

0:49:04.520 --> 0:49:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe were humans the dead end host? No, Well,

0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:10.840
<v Speaker 1>was there human? Was there human to human transmission?

0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Right? So that's the big question. And in many of

0:49:13.040 --> 0:49:16.160
<v Speaker 2>these outbreaks we do see evidence of human to human transmission,

0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:18.719
<v Speaker 2>and this is something that for a long time. There's

0:49:18.760 --> 0:49:21.120
<v Speaker 2>been a lot of politics around this, and for a

0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:25.919
<v Speaker 2>long time, various governments were refusing to recognize that human

0:49:25.960 --> 0:49:29.520
<v Speaker 2>to human transmission was actually happening. But in many of

0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:33.040
<v Speaker 2>these cases, human to human transmission is definitely happening, it

0:49:33.120 --> 0:49:35.759
<v Speaker 2>is at much lower levels than what we normally see

0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:38.080
<v Speaker 2>with a human flu virus.

0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:42.720
<v Speaker 1>So the infectivity is lower exactly. And so the issue

0:49:42.719 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 1>with the government is that because when H five N

0:49:45.360 --> 0:49:49.000
<v Speaker 1>one was found in a bird population, they would call

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:50.319
<v Speaker 1>the entire.

0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Well yes and no. So that's sort of common practice,

0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:56.600
<v Speaker 2>and that started because of that initial outbreak that happened

0:49:56.600 --> 0:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>in Hong Kong. Hong Kong actually called millions of bird

0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:03.359
<v Speaker 2>birds and they have since kept infections very much at

0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:06.200
<v Speaker 2>bay on the island of Hong Kong. Other countries have

0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:09.439
<v Speaker 2>tried to do the same. But the issue is that

0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 2>in many of the countries where these spillovers are happening,

0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:17.080
<v Speaker 2>it's small farmers who have these bird flocks, and so

0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:20.240
<v Speaker 2>you're basically destroying their livelihood by coming in and culling

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:22.880
<v Speaker 2>all of these infected birds. So farmers don't want to

0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:27.239
<v Speaker 2>cooperate and the government doesn't want panic, which tends to

0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:29.719
<v Speaker 2>happen when you say something like fifty two percent of

0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:32.960
<v Speaker 2>people are dying from a pathogen that we don't have

0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>control over.

0:50:34.000 --> 0:50:37.799
<v Speaker 1>So I understand that the government doesn't want panic, but

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:40.200
<v Speaker 1>we kind of saw how that panned out in the

0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighteen flew.

0:50:42.360 --> 0:50:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, isn't it amazing how humans just never learn our lesson?

0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:47.680
<v Speaker 1>But then there was the Ebola scare. I think that

0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.680
<v Speaker 1>it's a it's a combination of not wanting to panic people,

0:50:50.719 --> 0:50:53.640
<v Speaker 1>which is understandable because then people might do crazy things,

0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:57.120
<v Speaker 1>but then also a lack of scientific understanding about transmission.

0:50:57.480 --> 0:51:02.680
<v Speaker 1>So whereas the Ebola scare, it was not warranted for

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:09.080
<v Speaker 1>people in the US, but this is warranted in some cases.

0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So there hasn't been extensive human to human transmission yet,

0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:17.879
<v Speaker 2>extensive meaning you know, we haven't seen a pandemic yet,

0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:21.960
<v Speaker 2>but there certainly has been limited human to human transmission.

0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:25.880
<v Speaker 2>So maybe one person going home and infecting his entire family,

0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:30.560
<v Speaker 2>for example, but maybe not infecting an entire village or

0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:34.360
<v Speaker 2>an entire town or something like that. But that is

0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:37.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of the biggest fear is that this virus has

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:41.560
<v Speaker 2>spilled over so many times that eventually it's going to

0:51:41.600 --> 0:51:44.120
<v Speaker 2>break that last barrier and it's going to be able

0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:48.400
<v Speaker 2>to be transmitted freely between humans, in which case we

0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:50.560
<v Speaker 2>could absolutely see a global pandemic.

0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:55.600
<v Speaker 1>So, but one difference between now and nineteen eighteen is

0:51:56.160 --> 0:52:00.279
<v Speaker 1>technology for a vaccine creation. Absolutely how does that plan this?

0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:05.319
<v Speaker 2>So every year they're all, I guess it's virologists. They

0:52:05.320 --> 0:52:07.440
<v Speaker 2>try to predict what is going to be the most

0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:11.279
<v Speaker 2>common circulating strains of flu, right, and they put those

0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:13.680
<v Speaker 2>They do a lot of models to figure out what

0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:16.719
<v Speaker 2>strains those are, and then they make a vaccine for it.

0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.600
<v Speaker 2>And that's the seasonal flu vaccine that you get. This

0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:23.680
<v Speaker 2>virus we can't quite make a vaccine for yet because

0:52:23.719 --> 0:52:27.359
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't quite exist yet in a form that would

0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.319
<v Speaker 2>be passing human to human, So we wouldn't be able

0:52:30.360 --> 0:52:34.280
<v Speaker 2>to make a vaccine for it until it's it already

0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:38.080
<v Speaker 2>is circulating, if that makes sense. So we don't have

0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:41.080
<v Speaker 2>a vaccine for H five N one for humans. We

0:52:41.200 --> 0:52:43.880
<v Speaker 2>do have a vaccine for domestic birds, and so a

0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:47.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of places are trying to vaccinate all domestic birds

0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:49.880
<v Speaker 2>so that we don't have that initial spillover event happening

0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:52.400
<v Speaker 2>in the first place. But that's sort of an imperfect

0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:56.440
<v Speaker 2>system as well. So another big difference between nineteen eighteen

0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:59.359
<v Speaker 2>and today is that today you can get on a

0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:04.759
<v Speaker 2>plane in Chicago and be in Hong Kong tonight, get

0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 2>on a plane there and be in Australia the next day.

0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:12.799
<v Speaker 2>So our mobility is insanely huge. So the chances that

0:53:12.920 --> 0:53:15.120
<v Speaker 2>if something like this were to happen that it could

0:53:15.200 --> 0:53:19.759
<v Speaker 2>spread worldwide extremely quickly are very very high, which is

0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:22.560
<v Speaker 2>something that concerns a lot of people who study this.

0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:26.520
<v Speaker 2>So to answer your initial question, which is how scared

0:53:26.560 --> 0:53:28.320
<v Speaker 2>do you you need to be about this kind of

0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:32.719
<v Speaker 2>thing happening today, go ahead and get your seasonal flu

0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:37.040
<v Speaker 2>shot at wash your hands, and just, I don't know,

0:53:37.080 --> 0:53:39.760
<v Speaker 2>be a little bit afraid, I guess, be a little afraid,

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:44.000
<v Speaker 2>not too afraid, like, but you know, don't hang around birds.

0:53:44.680 --> 0:53:46.239
<v Speaker 2>That would be a good piece of advice I have

0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:49.359
<v Speaker 2>for you. Don't hang around birds.

0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:53.120
<v Speaker 1>Be aware of the symptoms of flu and educate yourself.

0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Don't be afraid to go to the doctor. Don't be

0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:57.920
<v Speaker 2>afraid to go to the doctor because that happens a

0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:00.760
<v Speaker 2>lot and then you can end up infecting family members

0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:01.280
<v Speaker 2>or friends.

0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:05.040
<v Speaker 1>If you're feeling sick, don't go to work, oh my gosh.

0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.480
<v Speaker 2>And don't come to class.

0:54:07.200 --> 0:54:09.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, please don't come to class. Don't go to

0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the library, don't cough on me on the bus.

0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Don't touch all the door knobs.

0:54:14.280 --> 0:54:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Cough into your elbow. I think we're being too preachy.

0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:17.919
<v Speaker 2>We're definitely being here.

0:54:17.960 --> 0:54:20.400
<v Speaker 1>We can cut all of this, Yeah, we can. Well,

0:54:21.840 --> 0:54:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I have anything that I want to add.

0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:26.439
<v Speaker 2>How do we close this out?

0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:30.239
<v Speaker 1>We say?

0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thanks for listening, Thanks so much. Make sure that

0:54:35.160 --> 0:54:37.000
<v Speaker 2>you rate, review, and subscribe.

0:54:37.440 --> 0:54:40.959
<v Speaker 1>You can find future episodes on iTunes, on.

0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:48.160
<v Speaker 1>You can follow us on Instagram.

0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:55.040
<v Speaker 2>At this Podcast Will Kill You, on Twitter at TPWKY

0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:57.840
<v Speaker 2>that's this podcast will kill you, but it's just letters

0:54:57.880 --> 0:55:02.760
<v Speaker 2>because Twitter has rules, and on Facebook at this Podcast

0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:03.279
<v Speaker 2>will kill You.

0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:07.040
<v Speaker 1>If you want to learn more, we have a number

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.799
<v Speaker 1>of books and articles that we're going to hit you

0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:10.520
<v Speaker 1>with right now.

0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we encourage you to read.

0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Some of the books that we focused on were The

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Great Influenza by John Berry, which is super interesting. It's

0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:22.720
<v Speaker 1>really well researched, great book.

0:55:22.800 --> 0:55:25.359
<v Speaker 2>All about the nineteen eighteen flu, specifically.

0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Right, and it focuses mostly on the effects in the

0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:34.280
<v Speaker 1>United States. Flu by Ginocolata is more focused on the

0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:38.560
<v Speaker 1>discovery of the actual flu strain that caused the nineteen

0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:43.120
<v Speaker 1>eighteen flu, so how it was isolated and then sequenced

0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:46.880
<v Speaker 1>and so on. Pale Writer by Laura Spinney is another

0:55:46.960 --> 0:55:51.520
<v Speaker 1>nonfiction book about the nineteen eighteen flu, and this deals

0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:55.200
<v Speaker 1>more with personal histories and accounts, and this has a

0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:56.759
<v Speaker 1>much more global feel to it.

0:55:56.840 --> 0:56:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay. And then if you're interested in learning more about

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:03.839
<v Speaker 2>the Avian influenza and you want to be scared shirtless,

0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:08.640
<v Speaker 2>like seriously, you can read Fatal Strain Colon on the

0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Trail of Avian Flu and the Coming pandemic, and that's

0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:15.959
<v Speaker 2>by Alan Cyprus. It's a really really interesting book. Thank

0:56:16.000 --> 0:56:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you to Bloodmobile for the music and to Miles for

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:21.319
<v Speaker 2>all of your help with our logo.

0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.

0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Bye,