Speaker 1: What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy Rodney and this is positively
Speaker 1: gam what's happening? Bit oh man, this puppy is more
Speaker 1: than a notion. She is. But guess who found her
Speaker 1: and guess who encouraged me to get her? You I did?
Speaker 1: I did. I'll take the hit on that. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: she is a sweetie pie. But that's getting up at
Speaker 1: four in the morning and trying to house train is
Speaker 1: a bit much. It is much. But she is doing
Speaker 1: really really well. From day one, she's been doing really
Speaker 1: really well. I mean, we got her when she was
Speaker 1: two months, so I don't know what kind of training
Speaker 1: she had before. But she's had very limited accidents in
Speaker 1: the home. But I'm constantly taking her out, like I
Speaker 1: take her outside every two hours, and I have my
Speaker 1: eyes on her every second because I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: have our home messed up. Okay, but I love her.
Speaker 1: Did get her from the we did. She's a rescue.
Speaker 1: She's a rescue. I'm really happy that we were able
Speaker 1: to give her a home. Yeah, I'm very excited. You
Speaker 1: wanted to get there. I wanted to get a King
Speaker 1: Charles Spaniel, all those fancy name dogs. They'll get good homes.
Speaker 1: But Ronnie, you and I recently finished a great book
Speaker 1: by DeAndre Whitfield called Male Versus Man, How to honor women,
Speaker 1: teach children, and elevate men to change the world. And
Speaker 1: this was such an important read. It is I encourage everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't have to be a man to
Speaker 1: read this book. Absolutely not. I could so totally relate
Speaker 1: to it, and I'm just really excited to talk to
Speaker 1: DeAndre about it. We are so excited to have DeAndre
Speaker 1: Whitfield joined us one positively gam He's an actor, a
Speaker 1: three time Emmy and n double a CP Image Award nominee,
Speaker 1: and has published his first book called Male Versus Man.
Speaker 1: Welcome don Dre, Welcome, Thank you. But you know, before
Speaker 1: you even get started, I cannot move forward without mentioning
Speaker 1: your beautiful wife, Sally Richardson with you. I don't know
Speaker 1: people know that you are married to this beautiful woman.
Speaker 1: And you know we have a very deep connection because
Speaker 1: Sally was Jada's nemesis in Low Down, Dirty Shape. She
Speaker 1: also played Willow's mom and Will's wife respectively. And I
Speaker 1: am legend right. She's done so much. She's now she's
Speaker 1: part of the Gilded Agent I'm so proud and happy
Speaker 1: for her. So I have to say that I couldn't
Speaker 1: go on without talking about your wife at you know,
Speaker 1: I was going to talk about her because you know,
Speaker 1: that's my girl. We've been you know, that's my girlfriend
Speaker 1: of twenty four years and my wife of nineteen years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we you know, it's been such a journey for her,
Speaker 1: being able to reinvent yourself at some very critical times,
Speaker 1: you know, and we both have you know, been able
Speaker 1: to successfully that's you know, I always say, you know,
Speaker 1: you direct characters behind the camera and I direct character,
Speaker 1: and so we literally have carved out different spaces for ourselves,
Speaker 1: but they still do, you know, managed to intertwine in
Speaker 1: some really great ways, and I'm just so proud of her. Typically,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't you know, watching you know, our
Speaker 1: white brothers and sisters in the of the eighteen hundreds
Speaker 1: is not typically something that I you know, clamored to
Speaker 1: to watch. But when when they and this is credit
Speaker 1: to them also being able to have diverse voices behind
Speaker 1: the camera, which is exactly what we need in order
Speaker 1: to be able to tell stories accurately. So shout out
Speaker 1: to HBO and to Gilded Age for putting her in
Speaker 1: place like that and really not just for the sake
Speaker 1: of using her as a pawn, but really using her
Speaker 1: voice and her vision. Absolutely, absolutely so, and I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 1: So okay, So congrats on your first book. What compels
Speaker 1: you to it? I mean, it's so good, and it's
Speaker 1: so good we were both blown away. It was that
Speaker 1: just stops. You have to forgive me, because you know
Speaker 1: that stops me in my tracks. And the reason why,
Speaker 1: and I talked about this in the book. When I
Speaker 1: was in the fourth grade, I had a teacher tell
Speaker 1: me that I was not a good writer. Yeah, talk
Speaker 1: about that. And as you know, the things that that
Speaker 1: children here, particularly from adults that are supposed to help
Speaker 1: them build their life, could either wind up speaking life
Speaker 1: or death into that child's existence. And so from the
Speaker 1: fourth grade on until about a very few short years ago,
Speaker 1: I carried around this story about myself that I was
Speaker 1: not a good writer, despite the fact that I had
Speaker 1: great evidence that pointed to the contrary. My wife used
Speaker 1: to always tell me, baby, you gotta start writing. You're
Speaker 1: like you know, she would make a speech and you know,
Speaker 1: she would say, baby, I need something here, and I
Speaker 1: get can you and then write that up. She goes,
Speaker 1: this is crazy. You did that in five minutes. That's crazy,
Speaker 1: or somebody would you know, would ask, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I need to have you know this written up. But
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how. Language has always been a
Speaker 1: gift of mind. But because of that teacher, I never
Speaker 1: fully grasp a hold of the fact that I had
Speaker 1: a voice with my pen. What made you write this book?
Speaker 1: My father was in and out of jail my entire life,
Speaker 1: particularly the formative years of my adolescence. Right. I grew
Speaker 1: up in Brooklyn. I grew up fighting every day. You know,
Speaker 1: when you grow up light skinned with curly hair, that
Speaker 1: was a while ago, But when you grow up in
Speaker 1: that environment, that's invitation to a fight every single day
Speaker 1: because every day they're like, oh, you think you're cute,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, I just came outside to play
Speaker 1: some basketball. If you gotta beef with somebody, you gotta
Speaker 1: beef with my parents, not me. So every single day,
Speaker 1: not having your father and I talked about this in
Speaker 1: the book, and it's been very controversial in our community.
Speaker 1: As black folks, I said boldly, and I stand by it.
Speaker 1: A woman cannot teach you how to be a man.
Speaker 1: And that is not a controversial statement. That is a fact.
Speaker 1: I have a seventeen year old daughter. I cannot teach
Speaker 1: her how to be a woman. You know why, because
Speaker 1: I'm not one. That's my wife's job. I can teach
Speaker 1: my daughter how to be in relationship with a man,
Speaker 1: because I'm a man. My wife has to teach my
Speaker 1: daughter how to be a woman. I can teach my
Speaker 1: daughter how to have language with and for a man.
Speaker 1: So my father being in and out of jail my
Speaker 1: entire life, I never had anyone to give me languaging
Speaker 1: of manhood. So matriculating into manhood was extremely difficult for
Speaker 1: me because I didn't have that drill sergeant. I didn't
Speaker 1: have that drill instructor to get the proper information and
Speaker 1: instruction to be able to safely and accurately matriculate in
Speaker 1: the manhood. So every single day of my life where
Speaker 1: everybody thought I was a man, but I still had
Speaker 1: the skill set of a male, made life very difficult
Speaker 1: for me. And when Sally and I got married and
Speaker 1: then I became a father, that's when I began to see, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you're missing a lot. And every single day that I
Speaker 1: gathered up that information in order to graduate myself into manhood.
Speaker 1: I began to realize, Wow, you know what, I would
Speaker 1: have become a greater man, much quicker had I had
Speaker 1: this information and instruction. And in fact, my father would
Speaker 1: have become a great man quicker if he had that
Speaker 1: same information and instruction. And I never wanted anyone else
Speaker 1: to suffer like that, and that's why I decided to
Speaker 1: write this book. I like your analogy of a man
Speaker 1: as a walking tree that provides coverage to his village. Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: And the title includes the phrase mail versus man? How
Speaker 1: did you define male versus man? So simply put it,
Speaker 1: you know, when we're born, we are either born male
Speaker 1: or female. I know that's even a contract statement to
Speaker 1: make during the time that we live in right now,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately those are the facts as we know them,
Speaker 1: okays on your birth certificate at least now, I think
Speaker 1: they're even doing there, trying to do something different now.
Speaker 1: But on our birth certificates it either said male or female.
Speaker 1: It didn't say man or woman. So, in other words,
Speaker 1: at birth, we were assigned either male or female, or
Speaker 1: earthly assignment was to turn ourselves into either a man
Speaker 1: or a woman, not based on you using your body
Speaker 1: part as a demonstration of your manhood or your womanhood.
Speaker 1: But in fact, your dedication to being of service is
Speaker 1: what actually differentiates you from being a male or a man.
Speaker 1: So simply put, males look to be served. Men look
Speaker 1: to be of service. So I always tell the system
Speaker 1: just that I'm around. You don't have to try to
Speaker 1: guess whether the dude that you're dating is a male
Speaker 1: or a man. He will tell you based on his actions.
Speaker 1: Say that againdre males look to be served while men
Speaker 1: look to be of service. Wow, so watch this a
Speaker 1: guy who sits around waiting for everyone to serve him.
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. My son at a much
Speaker 1: earlier age. He just turned thirteen. By the way, I
Speaker 1: got two teenagers now. I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: happen anyway. My son now, because every single day he
Speaker 1: gets the messaging of manhood from me, has come a
Speaker 1: long way. I would put my son's manhood up against
Speaker 1: guys who are in their thirties and forties right now
Speaker 1: because he receives this messaging every single day. But when
Speaker 1: he was very young, four or five, six, seven years old,
Speaker 1: all day long, all he would do was yell out
Speaker 1: for my wife, mom, can I have some grapes? Mom?
Speaker 1: Can I have some chips? Mom? Can I have something
Speaker 1: to eat? Looking to be served? Now at that age,
Speaker 1: that is appropriate because he doesn't quite know his assignment
Speaker 1: in life here. But unfortunately, when you don't get someone
Speaker 1: to explain to you what your assignment is, you think
Speaker 1: that it's supposed to be everyone in your environment, everyone
Speaker 1: in your cipher, serving you, when really your assignment on
Speaker 1: this earth as a man is to be of service
Speaker 1: to everyone around you. So, in other words, as a man,
Speaker 1: every woman falls under my covering. So, brother Rodney, when
Speaker 1: your wife, when you're not around, and she is directly
Speaker 1: in my cipher, she now falls under my covering. Every
Speaker 1: child in my cipher falls under my covering, whether they're
Speaker 1: my biological child or not, whether they are my wife
Speaker 1: or not. As a man, if they are in my cipher,
Speaker 1: it is my job to protect and to serve them.
Speaker 1: So males look to be served while men look to
Speaker 1: be of service. There's a gigantic difference between simply being
Speaker 1: a male and being a man. Huge You also spoke
Speaker 1: about creating a calm environment or being the source of
Speaker 1: calm and chaos. How do you suggest that men accomplished
Speaker 1: that you spoke of women typically coming from or acting
Speaker 1: from a place of emotion versus and the need for
Speaker 1: a man to respond from a place of calm. Talk
Speaker 1: to us about that. Yeah, because let me tell you something. Look,
Speaker 1: here's why a male is dangerous when he doesn't understand
Speaker 1: his assignment our chief generator. It's called testosterone. When a
Speaker 1: male doesn't understand his assignment and he is allowing his
Speaker 1: testosterone to guide him through life, he's gonna create a
Speaker 1: lot of babies and a lot of chaos. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And those babies are gonna fall under that umbrella of
Speaker 1: chaos and be more chaotic if a woman, look my wife,
Speaker 1: and I say this very tongue in cheek, but there's
Speaker 1: so much truth in it. My wife is allowed to
Speaker 1: be as emotional and as crazy as she wants to be,
Speaker 1: not me. I am the last line of defense in
Speaker 1: this house. So if my wife is emotional one day,
Speaker 1: and sometimes there are some very biological things that are
Speaker 1: happening with her every month that will allow her to
Speaker 1: get outside of who she may be every day to
Speaker 1: show up as her better self. So if she's feeling
Speaker 1: more emotional on this particular day and doesn't allow herself
Speaker 1: to to operate in the best version of herself. There
Speaker 1: are certain things that she can say or do that
Speaker 1: may activate me to respond in kind, but I can't
Speaker 1: do that. I am the leader of my house. Let
Speaker 1: me say this again. I I am the leader of
Speaker 1: my house, not because I tell anybody what to do.
Speaker 1: I want everybody to listen to me very carefully. I
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody in my house what you do. My
Speaker 1: wife is from the South side of Chicago. My wife
Speaker 1: is a proud black woman that is not going to work.
Speaker 1: I don't tell anybody what to do. I show people
Speaker 1: what to do. I am the model that my house mirrors.
Speaker 1: So if my wife raises her voice, if she's acting
Speaker 1: in a way that is a little more emotional, that
Speaker 1: is past the better version of herself. My job is
Speaker 1: to now model for her what I want her the mirror. So,
Speaker 1: in other words, and I talked about this in the book,
Speaker 1: if my life is on dead, my job is to
Speaker 1: be on two. It's extremely difficult to argue with somebody
Speaker 1: if you can't hear them, so she's a doing at him.
Speaker 1: My job is to be here too. I think Rodney
Speaker 1: can relate to that strongly about you know, my wife
Speaker 1: can be like that at time. Student, It's like you said,
Speaker 1: it's my job to model that behavior to bring her
Speaker 1: back to center. Yes, sir, because guess what, that's not
Speaker 1: actually who she is. That's what she's doing, right, Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that's not actually who she is. My job is to
Speaker 1: first put out the fire. I talked about this in
Speaker 1: the book every Man Is a Firefighter. Yeah, my job
Speaker 1: is to put out fires, not set them, got it.
Speaker 1: So my job is not to be an arsonist. My
Speaker 1: job is to be a firefighter and put them out.
Speaker 1: So my job is to put out her fire first
Speaker 1: and then try to figure out what caused that fire
Speaker 1: and then have a loving discussion about that later on
Speaker 1: so that she can be brought to a level of
Speaker 1: consciousness to maybe avoid going to that space again. That's
Speaker 1: my job. Now. You also talked earlier about how language
Speaker 1: can activate or deactivate, you acknowledging that words you speak
Speaker 1: affect people, how words how the words that you use
Speaker 1: affect the people that you're speaking to. So I want
Speaker 1: you to talk to us about an experience that you
Speaker 1: had when you overheard Sally going over some homework with
Speaker 1: your son, Dre tell us about that and how that
Speaker 1: made you feel. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because words.
Speaker 1: Language is so important, and I'm so glad God could
Speaker 1: not have given me or gifted me a greater gift
Speaker 1: than the gift of language. There are two forms of language,
Speaker 1: in my humble opinion, and I talked about this in
Speaker 1: the book, there's protein and there's Keresin protein language is
Speaker 1: the kind of language that we used to help build
Speaker 1: people up. Kerosene language is the kind of language that
Speaker 1: we used to burn people. Every coach that coaches anything
Speaker 1: in life, whether it's relationships or basketball, for the most part,
Speaker 1: every coach has the same level of knowledge about a
Speaker 1: particular subject. What separates good coaches from great coaches is
Speaker 1: their language. And when they use language protein language that
Speaker 1: helps to build the people up that they're communicating with,
Speaker 1: it makes for a better team. So there is no
Speaker 1: coincidence that there are certain people and I consider myself
Speaker 1: to be the head coach of my team, which is
Speaker 1: my family, because I have the best language. If my
Speaker 1: wife was sitting here right now, she would tell you
Speaker 1: that I am that person in this house. She does
Speaker 1: have great language. But she will absolutely tell you that
Speaker 1: I am the one that gives that kind of protein
Speaker 1: language to both her and our children that allows them
Speaker 1: to come to the better version of themselves. Because I
Speaker 1: have a level of awareness that makes me say, okay,
Speaker 1: wait a minute. I struggle at times. So my job
Speaker 1: is to make sure that I elevate my own sense
Speaker 1: of language and usage of it. Two then gift it
Speaker 1: to my family so that they can allow themselves to
Speaker 1: come to the better versions of themselves. You also came
Speaker 1: up with the five languages of pain, and that really
Speaker 1: resonated with me personally. So what does the what was
Speaker 1: the acronym round? Yes? Indeed, what's so interesting about that
Speaker 1: is when we talk about all of those particular things,
Speaker 1: the language you know of pain, it's so interesting because
Speaker 1: you know, cursing, you know, being one of them. For me,
Speaker 1: I remember growing up in in Brooklyn and cursing was
Speaker 1: like not a first not a second language. It was
Speaker 1: the first lague absolutely. But before you go into all
Speaker 1: of that, don Jay, can't you explain what the acronym
Speaker 1: stands for? What does lucas mean? So when we talk
Speaker 1: about this, and there's some other things that I want
Speaker 1: to bring into the mix of this, right, because it's
Speaker 1: so valuable, and I'm so glad that you guys brought
Speaker 1: it up because it's gonna be valuable to everyone. Right.
Speaker 1: So when we talk about when we talk about lucas,
Speaker 1: when we talk about lusting and unforgiveness and cursing and
Speaker 1: all of those things they talk, we really are dealing
Speaker 1: with all of the things that every ones that society
Speaker 1: gives us that breaks us down as the great communicators
Speaker 1: of life, right, lusting in our relationships. When we talk
Speaker 1: about lusting in our relationships, Lusting can be a great
Speaker 1: thing when it involves us, when it involves our partners,
Speaker 1: But when we extend that lusting outside of our relationships
Speaker 1: and it goes to someone else, it can greatly deteriorate
Speaker 1: everything that happens under our roof. Right. So, as a man,
Speaker 1: my job is to make sure that I grab ahold
Speaker 1: of what my lusting is and make sure that I'm
Speaker 1: only using that within our bedroom. Right, That's extremely important.
Speaker 1: How about the unforgivingness? Right? How often does someone do
Speaker 1: something to you where you say I can't forgive them
Speaker 1: or just carrying resentment? Carrying resentment? Right? Though, who does
Speaker 1: that really hurt because I did this with my own father,
Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons why I wrote this book.
Speaker 1: I did this with my own father from the age
Speaker 1: of six to the age of forty six. My father
Speaker 1: and I were strange from each other because I wouldn't
Speaker 1: forgive him, because that was a part of my own
Speaker 1: pain that I couldn't come up under. I couldn't get
Speaker 1: up from under that. It didn't hurt my father as
Speaker 1: much as it hurt me. So I had to learn
Speaker 1: how to forgive him. Yeah, because right, forgiveness is for you.
Speaker 1: It's not really for the other person. The forgiveness exactly
Speaker 1: for you. It is healing for you, exactly right, Right,
Speaker 1: So if you're talking about that kind of stuff, you're
Speaker 1: talking about healing yourself, then let's deal with cursing. Cursing
Speaker 1: I stopped, boy, let me tell you something. Look, that
Speaker 1: is such a bad What is that? It's just a
Speaker 1: bad I don't want to call it a habit. It's
Speaker 1: as I go straight to cussing somebody else, we go,
Speaker 1: we go straight to it right now. Watch, not to
Speaker 1: shame anyone's not to shame anyone's parents, right, but all
Speaker 1: of our parents did it parents did. My parents did not. Never.
Speaker 1: I never heard my mother or my father use foul language.
Speaker 1: I don't know where I got Okay, so in a minute, okay,
Speaker 1: so ever, where did this come from? With you? Did
Speaker 1: you get that? I think that I got it because
Speaker 1: like you, I was like skinting long hair, and I
Speaker 1: think I used the foul language to make me tough,
Speaker 1: to make me up tough. Yes, you know, don't fun
Speaker 1: right right right? Right now? Watch this? Now, watch this?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is so good. You used cursing
Speaker 1: as a device. Yes, what you did was you used
Speaker 1: that in order to send a signal to everyone, first
Speaker 1: and foremost, I'm not light skinned, I'm like you, tough,
Speaker 1: just like you. I'm gonna prove it to you. Look
Speaker 1: at the way I kept right, because they're shame sometimes
Speaker 1: in our communities, there's actually shame for not speaking a
Speaker 1: certain way, for not speaking with particular vernacular. Right. Then,
Speaker 1: what you did was you actually bought into the fact,
Speaker 1: or bought into this notion that made you more acceptable.
Speaker 1: Yeah blacker, right, And you made that your own and
Speaker 1: didn't even realize that you were attacking your own spirit
Speaker 1: by doing it. Wow, so true, No beautiful thing has
Speaker 1: ever been expressed using that language. Wow, that is so true.
Speaker 1: Now watch this, I'll prove it to you. When a
Speaker 1: baby is born and we hold that baby in our arms,
Speaker 1: no one ever holds the baby going oh look at you,
Speaker 1: you beautiful motherful, you are the greatest I've ever seen
Speaker 1: in my life. You never did that in your life.
Speaker 1: You know for a fact that language would violate that. There,
Speaker 1: that baby's very spirit it. Yeah, yeah, right. So what
Speaker 1: we did is in society we learn to use cursing
Speaker 1: as a device. What about the A? What does the
Speaker 1: A stand for? The anger? Right? Right? Anger is extremely important,
Speaker 1: particularly as men. Anger is extremely important for us because
Speaker 1: we generally will be physical first, so our sisters will
Speaker 1: generally be emotional first. We generally will be physical first.
Speaker 1: It's extremely important for us to be in control of
Speaker 1: our anger because we can cause great damage. But you
Speaker 1: also said that anger is a reflection of typically of hurt.
Speaker 1: I'm really in pain. There's something, you know, third up
Speaker 1: in me that I'm releasing through this anger and the
Speaker 1: screaming and the cursing and all of that. It's real
Speaker 1: and it's coming from a place of unresolved pain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So if we look at that, right,
Speaker 1: we look at lusting first as the passion of pain.
Speaker 1: We look at unforgiveness as the memory of pain. We
Speaker 1: look at cursing as the vocabulary of pain. Anger is
Speaker 1: the emotion of pain, right. So there's no way for
Speaker 1: me to be angry about anything unless I'm first in
Speaker 1: pain about it. So what I have to do is,
Speaker 1: once I'm angry, I have to examine what is it
Speaker 1: that I'm in pain about, Because as a man, I
Speaker 1: can get everybody in trouble if I'm angry. My job
Speaker 1: is not for me to control my emotion. My job
Speaker 1: is to control my response. So once I figure out
Speaker 1: what my pain is, I can now control how I
Speaker 1: respond to that pain. And that makes sense how a
Speaker 1: sarcasm come in thow? So sarcasm is actually the humor
Speaker 1: of pain. Right. I love that role because whenever we
Speaker 1: sit there and we joke about something, somebody says something
Speaker 1: and they say they make a sarcastic comment to you
Speaker 1: that's really about that particular space of them feeling pain,
Speaker 1: but they're using the expression of that pain with humor,
Speaker 1: and there in lies the sarcasm. So whenever you're sarcastic
Speaker 1: about something. Realize that what you're doing is that you're
Speaker 1: trying to cloak your pain pretty bailey, so that people
Speaker 1: don't really understand that you're actually in pain. But they
Speaker 1: used that sarcasm as this humor and they go, oh,
Speaker 1: he's actually pretty funny, when really I'm actually using this
Speaker 1: particular device to hide my levels of pain. Every single
Speaker 1: thing that we look at, from our lusting, to our unforgiveness,
Speaker 1: to our cursing, to our anger, to our sarcasm, everything
Speaker 1: is about examining our pain. Got it. So you and
Speaker 1: I were talking last night and we were talking about
Speaker 1: some of the challenges that you had so in the
Speaker 1: in the cities of Baltimore. I was a male longer
Speaker 1: than I would have liked to have been so very
Speaker 1: well put, so, you know, wanted to ask you, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you think are some of the challenges that
Speaker 1: black men face these days? Oh my gosh, to becoming
Speaker 1: a man. You know, I'm thinking that make racism, poor education,
Speaker 1: lack of fathers in the home, lack of good mentors
Speaker 1: in their life, culture, being hard tough, thug culture. You know,
Speaker 1: that's way overrated. What do you think there are so many.
Speaker 1: And I say this with all due respects to our sisters,
Speaker 1: because they obviously experience a great deal of challenges in
Speaker 1: our society, even with within our community. But now there
Speaker 1: is such an attack on black men right now, and
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it because I'm not gonna tiptoe
Speaker 1: around it anymore, even our sisters. Look, I stopped doing
Speaker 1: a television show because I didn't like the worries that
Speaker 1: were being told about. I had a meeting where I
Speaker 1: was told I was playing a character that was salt
Speaker 1: of the earth, servant to the highest degree for his people.
Speaker 1: And I was told before one of our seasons that
Speaker 1: they had to this is a direct quote, they had
Speaker 1: to dirty him up. And I said, okay, can you
Speaker 1: tell me why he's just too good? And I will
Speaker 1: never forget the flushed feeling that came over me. And
Speaker 1: I stopped and I said, if this character were white,
Speaker 1: do you know what his name would be? And they
Speaker 1: all collectively shift their heads no, And I said his
Speaker 1: name would be my dreamy. Nobody's having meetings about dirtying
Speaker 1: up McDreamy. You know why, because somehow they think that
Speaker 1: white men are capable of being that good. Yeah, nobody's
Speaker 1: having meetings despite all of the evidence that we see
Speaker 1: almost daily about the fact that some of our white
Speaker 1: brothers art always so good, But still no one's having
Speaker 1: meetings about dirty ng up white characters or television. Why
Speaker 1: are we having meetings about black men being dirtied up?
Speaker 1: Because it's just not possible for them to be that good.
Speaker 1: I will never forget during some of our episodes where
Speaker 1: he's involved with this woman, what with his sister, and
Speaker 1: the comments online from our sisters consistently were, I don't
Speaker 1: trust him. I don't trust him. He can't be that good.
Speaker 1: Got to be wrong with him. Now, let me tell
Speaker 1: you something that's a powerful statement. It is because what
Speaker 1: it says is that a black man can't be that good.
Speaker 1: Then let me tell you something, Dendre Whitfield, I am
Speaker 1: not good, and I ain't the only one. I am
Speaker 1: not an anomaly. I am not a unicorn. There are
Speaker 1: a bunch of brothers that are out here in our communities,
Speaker 1: in our society that are that good, that looked to
Speaker 1: serve our sisters, our children, that served to uplift our
Speaker 1: community and aren't looking to harm anybody. And I was
Speaker 1: so disappointed to see your character leave and that was
Speaker 1: such a huge role and such an opportunity for you
Speaker 1: had it. That makes you feel first of all when
Speaker 1: you got the call and then when you made the decision,
Speaker 1: because you didn't have to make that decision, but you
Speaker 1: made the decis vision to exit. I think that was
Speaker 1: huge because that I hear about that with women a
Speaker 1: lot with women actors, but I don't know how often
Speaker 1: and may because I just don't know any and I
Speaker 1: haven't been in conversation male actors who have had to
Speaker 1: make that choice of the type of roles and how
Speaker 1: they're willing to present themselves. Look, we have to start examining,
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about black people. Yes, we have to
Speaker 1: start examining who the freak is telling me stories about
Speaker 1: our people, and in particular black men, because what are
Speaker 1: the stories that are being told about black women that
Speaker 1: they are absolutely necessary, which they are absolutely necessary in
Speaker 1: our communities. Our communities would fall apart without black women.
Speaker 1: I agree with that, But is that to say that
Speaker 1: our communities don't fall apart and aren't falling apart when
Speaker 1: black men aren't playing the roles if they need to
Speaker 1: play in them. Absolutely, men are just as important as
Speaker 1: black women in our community. But you realize that historically
Speaker 1: we have been programmed to believe that we don't need
Speaker 1: black men. I mean, it's been set up that way
Speaker 1: from days of slavery, so you know, it's just ingrained
Speaker 1: in us, and I kind of wanna, Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: there's so This is why this book is so good,
Speaker 1: because there's so much that I want to talk about
Speaker 1: that I'm just running out of time, But I gotta
Speaker 1: go back. Yeah, we may need apart to donre, we
Speaker 1: may neage part too, because I gotta go back to this.
Speaker 1: I gotta go back to the statement that where you
Speaker 1: talked about before that women can't raise males because I
Speaker 1: know that they're gonna be women that that challenge that.
Speaker 1: But I think it's so important that with regard to
Speaker 1: fatherless homes, please speak to us about this very complex
Speaker 1: dynamic when boys become the moth and the moth meaning
Speaker 1: man of the house at a very young age. When
Speaker 1: there's a fatherless home, there's a single you know, woman
Speaker 1: and giving that role to her son and he doesn't
Speaker 1: have the power or the tools to handle it, and
Speaker 1: what that does to the relationship with his mom and
Speaker 1: how he views relationships with women. Let me tell you
Speaker 1: one of the most damaging things that a young male,
Speaker 1: a boy ever hears in his life is you are
Speaker 1: the man of the house. Right. You know how painful
Speaker 1: it is to be given an assignment and not have
Speaker 1: the skill sets, the tools to be able to complete
Speaker 1: the task. That is exactly what happens to any boy
Speaker 1: who is told that he is the man of the house.
Speaker 1: He becomes the emotional partner to his mother. So, in
Speaker 1: other words, the substitute boyfriend. And now she is trying
Speaker 1: to both raise as an emotional crutch that she doesn't
Speaker 1: have in a life partner. That is devastating because what
Speaker 1: he begins to learn is that a woman speaks to
Speaker 1: him a certain way. He actually begins to dislike this
Speaker 1: new partner that he has. I'm gonna be honest with
Speaker 1: you and tell you that I fell out of love
Speaker 1: with black women for a time based on a relationship
Speaker 1: that I have with my mother. And it was because
Speaker 1: of the constant, at times chastising that happens when a
Speaker 1: woman feels the pain of a past partner that she
Speaker 1: created this child with. And I looked just like my father.
Speaker 1: So at times when you hear you just like him.
Speaker 1: You ain't gonna be ish just like him. And I've
Speaker 1: forgiven my mother for though my mother had me at
Speaker 1: a very young age. My mother was a late teen,
Speaker 1: so she was a child herself. So I had to
Speaker 1: forgive my mother for that because giving her that grace
Speaker 1: and understanding that my mother was still a child herself
Speaker 1: and trying to figure it out. Right. And you probably
Speaker 1: experienced this with Jada as well, in being a young
Speaker 1: mom and at times not fully equipped, and so you
Speaker 1: couldn't show up as your best self because you didn't
Speaker 1: have all of the tools that you needed to be
Speaker 1: your best self yet. Right. And so what happens to
Speaker 1: a male trying to come into manhood and in learning
Speaker 1: how to be in partnership with them, you learn how
Speaker 1: to argue, because you see, that's what's modeled for you. Right.
Speaker 1: So love now looks like argument, dissension, anger, violence, that's
Speaker 1: what love begins to look like. For every boy, the
Speaker 1: first love of his life is his mother. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: question now becomes what did the first love of your
Speaker 1: life do to your heart? You begin to dole out
Speaker 1: pain as you receive it because you associate that with love. Right,
Speaker 1: So many of our sisters go through the same things.
Speaker 1: They get a part a partner who reminds them of
Speaker 1: their father. What if your father was a male, and
Speaker 1: the choosing males not because that feels good, it feels familiar, right, right, right,
Speaker 1: So you choose a partner that feels familiar, like your dad,
Speaker 1: if your dad loved you, If your dad abuse you,
Speaker 1: you will often choose abuse. Does that feels familiar, Not
Speaker 1: that it feels good, It just feels familiar, and you
Speaker 1: associate that familiarity with love. So that boy, that moth
Speaker 1: feels the same way. And so we begin in this
Speaker 1: cycle of everyone choosing all of this pain not because
Speaker 1: it feels good, it feels familiar. So we have to
Speaker 1: start really teaching our young ones at a very early
Speaker 1: age this is what love feels like. It feels like
Speaker 1: open communication. It feels communication at two not then it
Speaker 1: feels the wage of love and not cursing and not
Speaker 1: sarcasm and all of those other things that are painful
Speaker 1: to us because they become the model that we eventually
Speaker 1: will begin to mirror in our relationships. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: I want to say too that this speaks to the
Speaker 1: importance of single women trying to find a positive role
Speaker 1: model for their boys, because boys need to be fathered
Speaker 1: and not really just children need to be fathered. And
Speaker 1: I know that when in trying to raise Jada, I
Speaker 1: wasn't always successful, but I tried to be very cautious
Speaker 1: about the men that I allowed into her life. I
Speaker 1: didn't let every like I was young. I was seventeen
Speaker 1: when I had Jada, But I didn't let every time
Speaker 1: Dick and Harry. Yeah, I didn't let every time Dick
Speaker 1: and Harry that I decided I was interested in. I
Speaker 1: didn't expose Jada to all those people. You have to
Speaker 1: be cautious and and and it's your responsibility as a
Speaker 1: parent to find that positive role model for your children.
Speaker 1: And if it's you know, I was lucky I had
Speaker 1: my father, that I had men in my family that
Speaker 1: I could rely on. That's not the case for anybody.
Speaker 1: But that is your job. That is your job because
Speaker 1: you don't have to do it alone. And I think
Speaker 1: that's really important. This is a whole another conversation. I
Speaker 1: think Rodney has one more, one more question. He wants
Speaker 1: to come. So I have daughters, So I was I
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't have the responsibility of raising men.
Speaker 1: But all there's certain life lessons you're trying to pass
Speaker 1: down to your sons. If my son was sitting here
Speaker 1: right now and I asked him, or you asked him, Dre,
Speaker 1: why did God put you here? My son would tell
Speaker 1: you plainly to be of service. Wow, my son knows
Speaker 1: that his assignment on this earth is to be a
Speaker 1: man that is a powerful servant. That is it. If
Speaker 1: we drum into our sons that messaging, it will take
Speaker 1: care of everything. We gotta teach them to be great men, perfect, perfect,
Speaker 1: And thank you so much. It was a joy and
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have it. Please everybody, please go out
Speaker 1: and get this book. It is such so worth a read,
Speaker 1: and it's not just for men to read. It was
Speaker 1: so I saw myself in this book. It's powerful, it's powerful.
Speaker 1: Please tell everybody where they can find you on social
Speaker 1: media Dondre. Instagram is all Dondre A L D O
Speaker 1: N D R E, and Twitter and Facebook is at
Speaker 1: Ddre Whitfield. And you can buy Mail versus Man anywhere
Speaker 1: you buy books. Yes, I was gonna say, please go
Speaker 1: out and get through yourself a faith. Even it's perfect,
Speaker 1: you will not be disappointed, I promise you. I am
Speaker 1: looking forward to part two for so much that we
Speaker 1: didn't know. I know we have so much more to
Speaker 1: talk about. Thank you. Don Next up Rodney's takeaways from
Speaker 1: our conversation on man versus Mail. So one of my
Speaker 1: takeaways from Males versus Men is the importance of indoctrinating
Speaker 1: young men into the philosophy of being of service and
Speaker 1: not being served at an early age. That philosophy is
Speaker 1: powerful and will certainly help in the transition from young
Speaker 1: man to man. Another takeaway from may Those versus men
Speaker 1: is that a man should always model the behavior that
Speaker 1: he wants his home to mirror. He should always be
Speaker 1: the firefighter, putting out fires and keeping a state of
Speaker 1: calm in the process, figuring out what started the fire
Speaker 1: in the first place, to bring about resolve in his
Speaker 1: home and with friends and family. That wraps it up
Speaker 1: for us. Thank you for listening to this episode of
Speaker 1: Positively gam You can follow me on all social platforms
Speaker 1: at gammy Narris. Then you can follow me at Rodney
Speaker 1: Nara's Underscore on Instagram. Help us out by leaving a
Speaker 1: five star review on Apple Podcasts and hitting the follow
Speaker 1: button on I Heart Radio. Stay grateful y'all positively. Gam
Speaker 1: is produced by red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Adrian Banfield, Naris Valan Jethro and Jada
Speaker 1: Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff, and our
Speaker 1: associate producer is Irene Bischoffberger. Our theme song is produced
Speaker 1: by d beats h