WEBVTT - Turning Garbage Into Food 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:22.836 Pushkin. The other day, I was talking with Matt Rogers 0:00:22.996 --> 0:00:28.876 about thermostats, specifically the way home thermostats looked back around 0:00:28.876 --> 0:00:31.556 twenty ten. If folks even know what a VCR is, 0:00:31.956 --> 0:00:34.556 they had these like VCR like interfaces, like it would 0:00:34.556 --> 0:00:37.676 like just blink twelve or blink eights and you have 0:00:37.716 --> 0:00:40.956 no idea what to do. They're responsible for like some 0:00:41.156 --> 0:00:46.316 between eight and ten percent of global emissions energies controlled 0:00:46.356 --> 0:00:49.236 by this thirty nine dollars plastic box in the wall. 0:00:49.796 --> 0:00:52.476 No one cared about that product, despite it being so 0:00:52.516 --> 0:00:54.836 important to our daily lives. So I kind of just 0:00:54.836 --> 0:00:56.476 had to dig in and fix it. And that's what 0:00:56.556 --> 0:01:00.436 I spent the next nearly decade doing. And by dig 0:01:00.436 --> 0:01:03.996 in and fix it, Matt means that he co founded Nest, 0:01:04.316 --> 0:01:08.076 a smart thermostat company that Google ultimately bought for around 0:01:08.156 --> 0:01:12.316 four billion dollars. And that's the kind of stuff that 0:01:12.316 --> 0:01:14.516 gets me really interested, like, what are these things that 0:01:14.556 --> 0:01:17.196 are out there that are really important but we just 0:01:17.316 --> 0:01:20.636 kind of take for granted. Now Matt thinks he's found 0:01:20.716 --> 0:01:24.876 his next big, really important, taken for granted thing. The 0:01:25.036 --> 0:01:34.396 garbage in your kitchen. I'm Jacob Goldstein. This is what's 0:01:34.396 --> 0:01:37.316 your problem? My guest today is Matt Rogers, the co 0:01:37.476 --> 0:01:41.036 founder of a new company called Mill. This is the 0:01:41.156 --> 0:01:43.716 last episode in our series on the future of food, 0:01:43.756 --> 0:01:46.916 and appropriately enough, we're talking about what happens to food 0:01:47.196 --> 0:01:50.676 after we're done with it. Matt's problem is this, how 0:01:50.716 --> 0:01:52.756 do you turn the food you throw in the garbage 0:01:53.036 --> 0:01:57.276 back into food. When Matt describes Mill, it sounds for 0:01:57.316 --> 0:01:59.636 a while like he's just talking about a high tech 0:01:59.716 --> 0:02:04.476 garbage can. But then there is this twist. I don't 0:02:04.516 --> 0:02:06.556 want to spoil it, but I will say that it 0:02:06.676 --> 0:02:09.356 is a big twist that will be hard to pull off. 0:02:09.396 --> 0:02:12.556 You might not work, but if it works, it could 0:02:12.556 --> 0:02:16.636 be a really big deal. Mill just came out of 0:02:16.676 --> 0:02:19.356 stealth mode a few weeks ago, but Matt has been 0:02:19.356 --> 0:02:21.556 working on the project since the early days of the 0:02:21.596 --> 0:02:26.476 pandemic Spring twenty twenty. We're all stuck in our houses, 0:02:26.556 --> 0:02:31.436 locked in, kind of walling on our own filth, screaming children, 0:02:31.956 --> 0:02:34.676 you know all the things. I get a call from 0:02:34.676 --> 0:02:38.476 an old colleague from Nest, Harry Tanabaum, who someone I 0:02:38.556 --> 0:02:40.236 was very close to on the Nest team. I mentored 0:02:40.316 --> 0:02:42.836 him for a lot of years. I am pacing on 0:02:42.876 --> 0:02:45.916 the balcony in our San Francisco house. No one is 0:02:45.916 --> 0:02:49.316 allowed to leave their home. I get a call and 0:02:49.636 --> 0:02:52.476 he says, Matt, Matt, I've been reading a lot of 0:02:52.516 --> 0:02:57.716 PDFs and websites about waste and no, like seriously, it's 0:02:57.756 --> 0:02:59.596 a it's a very hairy thing that could open. That's 0:02:59.596 --> 0:03:02.676 a good lead. I'm reading DAFs about waste. It's like, 0:03:03.196 --> 0:03:05.596 this is really bad. It's much worse than we think. 0:03:05.956 --> 0:03:10.116 And waste, waste meaning garbage like waste like garbage, Yes, 0:03:10.196 --> 0:03:12.556 Like one minute something is valuable and we use it 0:03:12.596 --> 0:03:15.156 and we love it, and the next minute it's like, oh, 0:03:15.196 --> 0:03:18.476 we got to toss this away, And what's it about 0:03:18.516 --> 0:03:22.116 that minute where it transitions from like valuable and awesome 0:03:22.356 --> 0:03:27.396 to like trash? Huh? And that was intriguing to me. 0:03:27.436 --> 0:03:30.436 And so it's almost like it's almost like the philosophy 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:35.156 of garbage, like garbage as an idea. Indeed, yes, like 0:03:35.916 --> 0:03:42.036 is trash inevitable? And we didn't discuss this on this call, 0:03:42.076 --> 0:03:44.436 but like as as Harry and I dug into it 0:03:44.436 --> 0:03:47.996 over the months, the learning was waste as an existent nature, 0:03:48.596 --> 0:03:53.196 like waste is like human construct and it is not inevitable. 0:03:53.676 --> 0:03:55.476 And that was kind of the sea crystal of this 0:03:55.556 --> 0:03:57.476 idea of like, oh, like what if we made a 0:03:57.516 --> 0:04:00.076 company that could end waste and what would that look like? 0:04:00.676 --> 0:04:02.716 And I knew from my insight days, from my family 0:04:02.756 --> 0:04:06.236 office work, I knew how big the climate, the climate 0:04:06.276 --> 0:04:09.036 part of this equation was. And what is the connect 0:04:09.436 --> 0:04:13.316 between food waste and climate change? Okay, I guess yeah, 0:04:13.316 --> 0:04:16.156 that's this is not obvious. It wasn't obvious to us either. 0:04:16.836 --> 0:04:20.996 It takes a lot of energy, water, land to grow 0:04:21.036 --> 0:04:24.996 our food. We have to drive it in trucks, often refrigerated, 0:04:25.156 --> 0:04:28.876 to get to grocery stores, get to our houses. It's 0:04:28.916 --> 0:04:32.716 like tennish percent of global emissions is the food that 0:04:32.716 --> 0:04:35.636 we've wasted. And then when food goes to landfill. This 0:04:35.716 --> 0:04:39.076 is all obviously not intuitive either. It doesn't just biodegrade, 0:04:39.796 --> 0:04:41.916 like the bid appeal of trash is actively a bad 0:04:41.956 --> 0:04:44.796 thing because it releases methane, which is like an ad 0:04:45.036 --> 0:04:48.756 x more potent greenhouse gas than CO two. Okay, so 0:04:49.436 --> 0:04:51.796 you got the call from Harry, When do you decide 0:04:51.836 --> 0:04:54.596 that you're in that you're gonna get back in started 0:04:54.636 --> 0:04:57.756 other company? Oh? Literally two hours later? Again, like this 0:04:57.796 --> 0:05:02.996 is the my instincts are pretty strong and big problem 0:05:03.756 --> 0:05:08.036 and a problem that is worth solving that I had 0:05:08.036 --> 0:05:11.356 been looking at and had not seen kind of a 0:05:11.356 --> 0:05:14.196 holistic solution yet, and also a problem that I could 0:05:14.236 --> 0:05:17.676 help on. Like when I think about what makes a 0:05:17.756 --> 0:05:21.316 great entrepreneur, it's not just that like they've got this 0:05:21.396 --> 0:05:23.836 drive to solve a problem and the problem is really big, 0:05:24.156 --> 0:05:26.716 but also like do they have the skills to actually 0:05:26.716 --> 0:05:30.596 impact that problem? And this is one really where the 0:05:30.636 --> 0:05:34.436 problem is behavior. It's like what we do in our kitchens. 0:05:35.116 --> 0:05:37.356 And that's the thing. Actually I know a lot about 0:05:37.676 --> 0:05:39.556 I spent a lot of time in people's homes helping 0:05:39.596 --> 0:05:42.356 design great products. What are you guys imagining when it's 0:05:42.396 --> 0:05:45.516 just you and Harry thinking, Okay, we're gonna do this, Like, 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:48.796 what's the kind of vague set of thoughts you have 0:05:48.836 --> 0:05:51.836 about what to actually do? The first thought is, what 0:05:51.956 --> 0:05:55.236 if we built a new product that would go in 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:59.076 your home to make it really easy to separate food 0:05:59.076 --> 0:06:01.516 waste at home. We're told that it's a good thing 0:06:01.556 --> 0:06:04.516 to do, but it's really hard to do it and 0:06:05.396 --> 0:06:08.396 for our household. Swathie and I are like we are 0:06:08.476 --> 0:06:11.636 climate evangelists. We spend our whole life working on climate change, 0:06:11.836 --> 0:06:15.316 and we've tried composting. We actually had one of those 0:06:15.316 --> 0:06:18.596 countertop bowls in our kitchen and there was a point 0:06:18.676 --> 0:06:21.076 where we actually had to stop because the fruit flies 0:06:21.196 --> 0:06:23.916 literally invaded our house and we had this like yellow 0:06:23.996 --> 0:06:27.956 sticky paper hang all around our kitchen. It just was 0:06:27.996 --> 0:06:31.276 way too hard. So most people don't know that it's 0:06:31.316 --> 0:06:33.356 important to separate your food waste, and for those who 0:06:33.436 --> 0:06:37.236 do know it's important, it's really hard to do it. Okay, 0:06:37.916 --> 0:06:40.996 I buy all that, And what are you imagining when 0:06:41.076 --> 0:06:42.876 you start building a bin? What do you have in 0:06:42.916 --> 0:06:45.436 your mind? What is this trash can going to do? 0:06:45.916 --> 0:06:49.916 So first and foremost, it has to not smell, And 0:06:50.316 --> 0:06:52.756 that's a crazy thing to say. You're going to put 0:06:52.756 --> 0:06:56.156 food in it and leave it there for days? Pasably 0:06:56.436 --> 0:07:01.596 it and it has week weeks weeks? Why weeks? Why weeks? Ah? 0:07:02.356 --> 0:07:05.156 So why weeks? If you're going to change a daily ritual, 0:07:05.356 --> 0:07:07.516 it's got to be really easy. It's got to be 0:07:07.596 --> 0:07:11.916 the easiest thing in the world. And today, the easiest 0:07:11.916 --> 0:07:13.236 thing to do with your food waste is throw it 0:07:13.276 --> 0:07:16.076 in the trash And the side effect of that is 0:07:16.116 --> 0:07:19.356 you're taking out the trash almost every day. So part 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:22.436 of building a better system is not only can it 0:07:22.676 --> 0:07:26.436 not smell, but like, can we drop that chore? Could 0:07:26.476 --> 0:07:28.996 you take out the trash like once or twice a month? Okay, 0:07:29.076 --> 0:07:30.716 that is a very tall task if you can think 0:07:30.756 --> 0:07:33.516 about that way, right, I mean, like even in one day, 0:07:33.556 --> 0:07:36.236 that countertop bin is thinking I know I have one, 0:07:36.356 --> 0:07:39.076 and it's true. So that was kind of the task 0:07:39.116 --> 0:07:40.916 we set out for ourselves. So how do you figure 0:07:40.956 --> 0:07:46.636 out that part? Yes, okay, we spent honestly months on experimentation, 0:07:47.036 --> 0:07:49.316 and tell me some of the things you tried that 0:07:49.356 --> 0:07:52.116 didn't work. Oh okay, I think my favorite experiment that 0:07:52.156 --> 0:07:56.236 didn't work is we try this kind of microbial technology 0:07:56.476 --> 0:08:00.796 and are there bugs or fun guy that can kind 0:08:00.796 --> 0:08:04.116 of break down food and eat it. And that's kind 0:08:04.116 --> 0:08:06.756 of some of the essence of how composting works. It 0:08:06.756 --> 0:08:09.356 turns out actually a lot of those mechanisms are actually 0:08:09.356 --> 0:08:13.716 inherently stinky. I mean, presumably we evolved to be a 0:08:13.836 --> 0:08:18.636 verse to rotting food basically, right, Like it smells bad 0:08:18.636 --> 0:08:21.196 to us for a reason. It smells bad because if 0:08:21.316 --> 0:08:24.156 danger danger, you will get sick. So okay, so the 0:08:24.196 --> 0:08:29.156 microbes don't work so what happens Our chief scientist who 0:08:29.236 --> 0:08:33.476 kind of leads our Seattle team, doctor Jeff Hill, was 0:08:33.876 --> 0:08:38.556 burning some food scraps in his lab like literally like 0:08:38.556 --> 0:08:41.156 like one of these like pyrolyzing ovens was laying them 0:08:41.156 --> 0:08:46.196 on fire and yeah, scientists, two fun stuff. I gotta 0:08:46.196 --> 0:08:49.436 get one of those ovens. And he's like, Matt Harry, 0:08:51.076 --> 0:08:55.036 food waste has more energy than wood, and we're like, 0:08:55.116 --> 0:08:56.676 what I mean? It has more energy than wood? And 0:08:56.756 --> 0:08:59.316 a guess this this makes sense, Like our food has calories. 0:08:59.556 --> 0:09:02.196 Calories is energy. So like we start digging in to 0:09:02.356 --> 0:09:04.476 like what he's learning, and he's like, wait a second, here, 0:09:04.716 --> 0:09:07.476 if we dry the food a kins like drying out wood, 0:09:07.556 --> 0:09:12.436 like it preserves the energy, and like, oh, this is cool. 0:09:13.756 --> 0:09:16.036 And then he also has his next Aha, he's looking 0:09:16.076 --> 0:09:18.596 at the materials and he's like, if we dry out, 0:09:18.676 --> 0:09:22.596 it preserves the nutrients, so like preserve the calories, preserved 0:09:22.596 --> 0:09:26.236 the nutrients. Like oh, and like in hindsight, this is 0:09:26.236 --> 0:09:29.156 like a no brainer, like oh, like we just invented 0:09:29.236 --> 0:09:31.596 drying things out. That's like a dehydration. Like we've been 0:09:31.636 --> 0:09:34.476 in We've been in this for astronaut food for decades, right, 0:09:34.516 --> 0:09:37.636 like or like beef jerky. It's like this has existed 0:09:37.676 --> 0:09:40.996 for really thousands of year old technology. That's why this 0:09:41.076 --> 0:09:44.196 is cool. So what we land is like if we 0:09:44.276 --> 0:09:48.996 dehydrate the food, it doesn't smell because it's preserved basically. 0:09:49.116 --> 0:09:51.716 So now you still have the problem if you want 0:09:51.716 --> 0:09:54.556 it to be there for weeks. You know, people throw 0:09:54.556 --> 0:09:56.396 away too much food, right, the trash can is gonna 0:09:56.396 --> 0:09:59.556 get full, correct exactly, So uh, like beef jerky is 0:09:59.556 --> 0:10:01.996 still pretty big. So it's cool is we have this 0:10:02.076 --> 0:10:03.756 kind of notion of like you dry it and you 0:10:03.836 --> 0:10:06.396 grind it at the same time. So and these things 0:10:06.436 --> 0:10:09.596 actually work synergistically because as you grow ended up, it 0:10:09.596 --> 0:10:12.956 makes it easier to get the water out. And food 0:10:13.036 --> 0:10:16.796 is about eighty percent water, so as you're grinding and 0:10:16.876 --> 0:10:20.636 drying it out, it gets really really small, really really small, 0:10:20.676 --> 0:10:24.676 like eighty percent size reduction. So if you can imagine, 0:10:25.436 --> 0:10:27.036 you know, you've got a big dinner party and you 0:10:27.276 --> 0:10:29.556 filled up the bin. You wake up the next morning 0:10:29.596 --> 0:10:32.676 and there's like this brown powder at the bottom. You're like, oh, 0:10:32.716 --> 0:10:34.996 where did all the food go? It's because there's mostly water, 0:10:36.276 --> 0:10:40.516 so okay, So like that is a really elegant plan 0:10:41.396 --> 0:10:44.156 I imagine it's hard to actually make all that happen 0:10:44.356 --> 0:10:47.076 inside a trash can that somebody can just put in 0:10:47.116 --> 0:10:52.916 their kitchen and plug in. Incredibly difficult, Yes, incredibly difficult. One. 0:10:52.996 --> 0:10:55.636 It's like in the getting to from the wetness to 0:10:55.676 --> 0:10:58.676 the dryness, there's still some wetness to get there. So 0:10:59.396 --> 0:11:01.676 what do you do with any odors that are created 0:11:01.716 --> 0:11:04.196 in that that twenty four hour period of the twelve 0:11:04.196 --> 0:11:08.756 hour period. And our engineers kind of scoured the world 0:11:08.756 --> 0:11:14.436 for like the most effective, the highest surface area activating 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:18.156 charcoal in the world, and we found this really cool 0:11:18.236 --> 0:11:22.676 coconut core based product that has like a square mile 0:11:23.036 --> 0:11:26.796 of surface area in our little can. It is pretty wild. 0:11:26.996 --> 0:11:29.356 So so you you put all this together and you 0:11:29.436 --> 0:11:31.916 make a thing. You make a high tech trash can 0:11:31.996 --> 0:11:34.516 that will grind up and dry out your food waste. 0:11:35.076 --> 0:11:37.076 Tell me about the thing you landed on. What's it 0:11:37.116 --> 0:11:40.476 look like? How does it work? Yes? So what we 0:11:40.556 --> 0:11:43.756 what we built is a new kind of bin that 0:11:44.756 --> 0:11:47.836 it's about two feet tall, looks like a kitchen trash bin, 0:11:48.116 --> 0:11:53.676 beautiful like white white steel wood vinear top, like a 0:11:53.676 --> 0:11:57.356 beautiful steel pedal, and is effectively a bottomless pit so 0:11:57.556 --> 0:12:00.996 two feet tall, normal size of trash bin. But because 0:12:00.996 --> 0:12:04.476 it's drying things out automatically, every night, you fill it 0:12:04.556 --> 0:12:06.516 up and during the day and you wake up the 0:12:06.556 --> 0:12:09.556 next morning and it's basically empty. It takes three ish 0:12:09.556 --> 0:12:11.436 weeks to fill up. What does it look like after 0:12:11.476 --> 0:12:13.356 it's ground up and dry. It's like looks a coffee grounds. 0:12:13.396 --> 0:12:15.436 It's actually we call it food ground coffe ground because 0:12:15.436 --> 0:12:17.636 it literally looks a coffee grounds. Okay, and it's a 0:12:17.756 --> 0:12:21.116 very familiar thing, like, oh, like brown's dry, it's kind 0:12:21.116 --> 0:12:24.276 of fluffy. Yeah, it's coffee grounds, but it's food. But 0:12:24.356 --> 0:12:28.716 it's cool. Because this material is dry and small and 0:12:28.796 --> 0:12:30.916 shelf stable, we don't need to get it out of 0:12:30.956 --> 0:12:33.276 the house in a garbage truck anymore. You could put 0:12:33.316 --> 0:12:35.236 it in the mail. So we did a partnership with 0:12:35.276 --> 0:12:37.916 the US Postal Service to put this material in the 0:12:37.956 --> 0:12:40.596 mail back to us. Wait, that's a that is a 0:12:40.676 --> 0:12:44.116 major twist putting it in the mail. It is indeed 0:12:44.116 --> 0:12:50.316 it was for us too. Why the mail? Why the mail? 0:12:50.916 --> 0:12:54.796 And also what is Matt and Mill gonna do with 0:12:54.836 --> 0:12:57.796 all of the food garbage that people are starting even 0:12:57.836 --> 0:13:01.076 now to send back to Mill in the mail? That 0:13:01.236 --> 0:13:11.676 we'll explain everything in a minute. Okay, let's get back 0:13:11.676 --> 0:13:14.116 to the show. Matt is explaining how he and his 0:13:14.196 --> 0:13:18.796 colleagues decided to have customers mail their garbage back to Mill, 0:13:19.276 --> 0:13:21.756 and also how Mill is going to try and turn 0:13:21.796 --> 0:13:26.396 that garbage into food for chickens. Why the mail, Like 0:13:26.396 --> 0:13:29.636 like I feel like you've sort of solved the problem already, 0:13:29.716 --> 0:13:32.196 Like I don't know what's what's going on with the mail? 0:13:32.196 --> 0:13:34.636 Why the mail? Well, as I mentioned, like, our lead 0:13:34.716 --> 0:13:38.756 scientists had spent months then analyzing this material and it 0:13:38.796 --> 0:13:41.796 has energy, it has calories as nutrition, and he had 0:13:41.876 --> 0:13:45.916 this moment where he's feeding it to his chickens in 0:13:45.956 --> 0:13:51.156 his backyard and they love it. And we talked, we 0:13:51.156 --> 0:13:54.316 talked to some more scientific advisors, we talked to some 0:13:54.396 --> 0:13:56.996 experts and they're like, yeah, this is this is a thing. 0:13:57.036 --> 0:14:00.876 Like we used to do this as a society back 0:14:00.876 --> 0:14:03.796 in the day. Whatever food we didn't eat went into 0:14:03.796 --> 0:14:06.076 the backyard to feed the chickens of the picks. That's 0:14:06.076 --> 0:14:10.236 how humans used to live. And as society has gotten 0:14:10.236 --> 0:14:12.516 more and more industrialized, we've kind of gone away for 0:14:12.596 --> 0:14:14.956 that and we don't farm in our backyards anymore. That's 0:14:15.036 --> 0:14:17.076 just not how we live. Most of us don't live 0:14:17.116 --> 0:14:19.756 that way. So just that you know, it would be 0:14:19.796 --> 0:14:23.556 a shame to compost this stuff. It's rocket fuel. Like 0:14:24.036 --> 0:14:26.516 we got to preserve the food. We need to get 0:14:26.516 --> 0:14:28.876 it back to us so we can get it to farms. 0:14:29.716 --> 0:14:32.636 And as you can imagine, like that's a pretty tall task, 0:14:32.676 --> 0:14:35.276 Like how do you get like hundreds of pounds of 0:14:35.316 --> 0:14:38.996 material per household? How do you collect that? Suddenly you're 0:14:38.996 --> 0:14:42.276 in a super different business, right, Like sure, selling people 0:14:42.276 --> 0:14:45.636 a fancy trash can, like I get that, but like 0:14:45.796 --> 0:14:49.756 having them mail back to you the dried out food 0:14:49.796 --> 0:14:53.876 garbage way, It's like that's like a huge change in 0:14:53.916 --> 0:14:56.076 what I'm imagining you doing. And it seems like a 0:14:56.156 --> 0:14:59.316 huge change in complexity. It seems borderline absurd that I'm 0:14:59.356 --> 0:15:02.356 gonna be mailing back my garbage to you. This is 0:15:02.396 --> 0:15:06.076 our journey. I would say. There's a combination of skill 0:15:06.116 --> 0:15:09.996 and luck in all entrepreneurship. Yeah. One of our founding 0:15:09.996 --> 0:15:14.116 team members, Alissa Pollock, was one of the first people 0:15:14.356 --> 0:15:16.436 at uber eats. She was one of the founding team 0:15:16.436 --> 0:15:18.516 members of uber Eats and ran business operations for them, 0:15:19.236 --> 0:15:21.756 and so she had looked at all sorts of different 0:15:22.116 --> 0:15:27.916 logistics models that exist, and you know, she's super creative. 0:15:27.916 --> 0:15:29.196 And one of the things that she pushed us on 0:15:29.316 --> 0:15:31.596 is like, hey, like we don't need to drive trucks 0:15:31.596 --> 0:15:34.476 around to pick this stuff up. Like it's small and light, Like, 0:15:35.196 --> 0:15:37.516 let's put in a package and ship it. So, like, 0:15:37.716 --> 0:15:40.676 we made some calls and we talked to some folks 0:15:41.396 --> 0:15:43.316 at the postal Service and a few folks that were 0:15:43.356 --> 0:15:45.716 retired from the postal service. We talked to some of 0:15:45.716 --> 0:15:51.116 the people who do package collection and I was like, yeah, 0:15:51.516 --> 0:15:53.996 that seems doable, Like you could mail a whole tree. 0:15:54.076 --> 0:15:56.876 These days, you put all sorts of stuff in the mail, 0:15:56.956 --> 0:15:59.676 and especially because it's shelf stable, like, yeah, we could 0:15:59.676 --> 0:16:02.956 pick this up. And one of the first kind of 0:16:02.956 --> 0:16:04.396 thoughts we have is like, oh, like this can't be 0:16:04.396 --> 0:16:08.196 good for the environment, like mailing boxes of dried food. 0:16:08.356 --> 0:16:10.876 That can't be a good thing. Right, So a lot 0:16:10.876 --> 0:16:13.156 of you you got a lot of moving stuff around 0:16:13.236 --> 0:16:16.276 driving it, that's right, I think that this can't be 0:16:16.316 --> 0:16:19.356 a good thing, right. So, being an environmentally conscious team, 0:16:19.356 --> 0:16:22.556 we actually did the analysis. We built a full life 0:16:22.596 --> 0:16:26.076 cycle analysis of this, and we realize actually, like it's diminimous. Okay, 0:16:26.236 --> 0:16:29.516 the methane generating power of this food waste is so high. 0:16:29.636 --> 0:16:32.996 And actually the trucks from the mail are already come 0:16:33.036 --> 0:16:36.036 in your house anyway. Yeah, like they're dropping off packages, 0:16:36.036 --> 0:16:38.596 the dropping of letters every single day, and the trucks 0:16:38.676 --> 0:16:41.556 usually go back empty. I buy the carbon footprint, that 0:16:41.676 --> 0:16:45.516 sort of climate change piece. It's more the operational part 0:16:45.556 --> 0:16:48.716 of this, like, well, we haven't even gotten to the 0:16:48.716 --> 0:16:51.356 point like sure, let's say I can get the food 0:16:51.356 --> 0:16:53.036 waste back to you. Let's say it's convenient for me. 0:16:53.116 --> 0:16:55.676 Let's say the environmental footprint is fine, you still gotta 0:16:55.796 --> 0:16:58.436 get it to a chicken. And by the way, you 0:16:58.516 --> 0:17:01.396 might be feeding that chicken the chicken that I ate 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:03.996 and dried out, which feels a little weird. Is it? 0:17:04.116 --> 0:17:06.356 Is there a sort of health risk there for like 0:17:06.596 --> 0:17:10.116 any kind of human consumption of cons eating chicken, Like 0:17:10.276 --> 0:17:13.556 is that a piece one is concerned about? So the 0:17:13.636 --> 0:17:16.516 key is we get the material back to us, we 0:17:16.956 --> 0:17:20.596 filter out any contaminants, We pasteurize the material again, so 0:17:21.036 --> 0:17:23.116 kill any pathogens those kind of things, and we blend 0:17:23.116 --> 0:17:26.316 it all together. So let's say, like if you only pizza, 0:17:26.476 --> 0:17:29.956 we're gonna blend your pizza scrap household with everybody else. 0:17:30.316 --> 0:17:32.796 So you have a factory now that to do this, 0:17:33.476 --> 0:17:36.956 Like have you built this in advance? Yep, of course, 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:39.276 we gotta build the whole end to end. This is 0:17:39.356 --> 0:17:42.036 so much harder than tell it a fancy trash can. 0:17:42.316 --> 0:17:44.236 This is this is so much harder the nest and 0:17:44.276 --> 0:17:47.436 it seems like a huge amount of the sort of 0:17:47.476 --> 0:17:51.116 operational challenge. Slash risk is the back end, right, Like 0:17:51.116 --> 0:17:53.436 it seems like in a weird way, drying out the 0:17:53.436 --> 0:17:57.236 trash is the easy part, and like getting it from 0:17:57.276 --> 0:18:00.196 my house to a chicken, that part seems like I can't. 0:18:00.476 --> 0:18:03.316 That part seems very hard and like it might not work. Yeah, 0:18:03.356 --> 0:18:06.356 this is the double black Diamond of startups. Yeah, it's 0:18:06.556 --> 0:18:10.476 like just building hardware is hard, Like most hardware startups 0:18:10.516 --> 0:18:15.076 fail because of execution, right, like that, A, you have 0:18:15.116 --> 0:18:17.356 a marginal costs that you don't have in software, and 0:18:17.396 --> 0:18:18.716 you have to get lots of people to buy it, 0:18:18.756 --> 0:18:20.436 and you have scale problems, like it's hard to sell 0:18:20.436 --> 0:18:22.956 a fancy trash can. And this is so much harder 0:18:22.996 --> 0:18:26.516 than selling a fancy trash can. Right, that's right, but 0:18:26.596 --> 0:18:28.876 we've got to solve it. End to end again, like, okay, 0:18:28.956 --> 0:18:31.476 if there's any friction for people, they're going to not 0:18:31.556 --> 0:18:34.956 do it. And what are you going to do with 0:18:35.236 --> 0:18:38.036 hundreds of pounds of dried food? So we had to 0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:41.276 get it back. Where is your processing facility? You have this? 0:18:41.316 --> 0:18:44.356 It exists now are first ones outside Seattle, and over 0:18:44.476 --> 0:18:47.436 time we see us building more and more around the country. Like, 0:18:47.476 --> 0:18:50.836 as we have more customers, we have more density, we 0:18:50.836 --> 0:18:54.396 should build facilities in every city. So you process it 0:18:54.436 --> 0:18:57.076 and then you sell it to chicken farmers as chicken food. 0:18:57.236 --> 0:18:59.316 We sell it to farmers as chicken foods, as an 0:18:59.436 --> 0:19:01.716 ingredient to chicken food. It won't be the exclusive thing 0:19:01.756 --> 0:19:04.716 a chicken will eat, but it's like it's called twenty 0:19:04.756 --> 0:19:07.236 twenty five percent of a chicken's diet. Is there any 0:19:07.276 --> 0:19:10.236 kind of regulatory hurdle you have to clear for this 0:19:10.316 --> 0:19:13.116 to work? We actually are actively going through this today, 0:19:13.396 --> 0:19:17.516 Like we are deep in the scientific and regulatory process 0:19:17.516 --> 0:19:21.356 and review for this new feed ingredient. Okay, so you 0:19:21.396 --> 0:19:24.596 have to get approval from what USDA or something. It's 0:19:24.636 --> 0:19:27.836 kind of a blend of USDA and FDA. We are 0:19:27.836 --> 0:19:30.356 still working through their process. So if your product is 0:19:30.356 --> 0:19:32.196 a hit. Are you going to have a warehouse full 0:19:32.236 --> 0:19:35.156 of prime chicken food ingredient that you can't sell yet? 0:19:35.356 --> 0:19:40.076 Is that a risk at this moment? Not yet. We're 0:19:40.076 --> 0:19:42.876 gonna need to use a lot of the feed we 0:19:42.996 --> 0:19:45.676 create for R and D and for the you know, 0:19:45.716 --> 0:19:48.276 for the first several weeks months, we're probably gonna use 0:19:48.316 --> 0:19:52.156 most of this material for R and D. Wow, Okay, 0:19:52.236 --> 0:19:55.236 so I think I've got the whole arc. We've got 0:19:55.236 --> 0:19:57.476 the whole arc. Well, let me ask you one more question. 0:19:57.716 --> 0:20:01.516 What's the business model? Ah? So the business model is 0:20:01.716 --> 0:20:04.276 we've built this all, this, this full loop from your 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:07.156 kitchen table all the way back to the farm, and 0:20:07.196 --> 0:20:09.836 we've built it as a membership. So you don't buy 0:20:09.836 --> 0:20:13.716 the bin okay, like you don't buy new charcoal filters 0:20:13.716 --> 0:20:15.916 when they run out. You don't pay for the mail. 0:20:16.196 --> 0:20:19.076 It's all included for about a dollar a day a dolt, 0:20:19.156 --> 0:20:21.796 So like thirty bucks a month, thirty three dollars a month. 0:20:21.956 --> 0:20:24.996 Thirty three dollars a month is kind of a lot 0:20:25.156 --> 0:20:29.116 for garbage, right, it's whatever of four hundred bucks a year, 0:20:29.876 --> 0:20:33.036 certainly if you're not paying for the kind of marginal 0:20:33.156 --> 0:20:36.556 garbage bag. Right, if it's if it's a true incremental cost, 0:20:36.996 --> 0:20:39.356 certainly most people aren't going to pay that. You don't 0:20:39.396 --> 0:20:42.356 need most people. So like who is your who is 0:20:42.356 --> 0:20:45.916 your target audience? Who are you starting with target customer? 0:20:45.916 --> 0:20:47.956 I should say yeah. So the way we think about 0:20:47.996 --> 0:20:51.716 it today is for folks who have felt the pain. 0:20:51.916 --> 0:20:53.196 And when I say the pain like the pain that 0:20:53.276 --> 0:20:55.756 my family had, they had the fruit flies and made 0:20:55.836 --> 0:21:00.116 Maybe they've got rats, Yeah, maybe they've they've tried composting 0:21:00.156 --> 0:21:01.676 and they just don't have the time, order the space 0:21:01.756 --> 0:21:03.956 to do it. A dollar a day for a less 0:21:03.996 --> 0:21:06.356 stinky kitchen sounds like a great idea to me and 0:21:06.596 --> 0:21:08.876 for me like a dollar a day for one less 0:21:08.916 --> 0:21:12.396 choice are I'm in? Yes, Although to be clear, you 0:21:12.436 --> 0:21:14.796 still have to take out all your other garbage all 0:21:14.796 --> 0:21:16.516 the time. I mean, I recognize that if food is 0:21:16.556 --> 0:21:19.236 most of your garbage, you take it out less. But still, 0:21:19.676 --> 0:21:21.836 if you know you still got to take out everything else. 0:21:22.156 --> 0:21:24.676 When you take food out of the trash, dream your 0:21:24.716 --> 0:21:28.116 garbage can fills up pretty slowly. Yeah, and it doesn't smell. 0:21:28.156 --> 0:21:29.716 So Actually, like for our house, we take out the 0:21:29.756 --> 0:21:31.556 garbage now like every three four days. It's a big 0:21:31.556 --> 0:21:34.196 difference for us we talked about the emotional side, Let's 0:21:34.196 --> 0:21:36.716 talk about the rational side of it. The rational side 0:21:36.796 --> 0:21:40.036 is in most cities in the country, you pay per 0:21:40.076 --> 0:21:44.916 month to your waist your waist bill based on the 0:21:44.956 --> 0:21:48.396 size of your trash cart at the curb. So in 0:21:48.436 --> 0:21:50.836 San Francisco, I have a sixty four gallon cart, I 0:21:50.876 --> 0:21:52.836 pay like seventy bucks a month for it. If I 0:21:52.956 --> 0:21:56.156 downsize to a thirty two or a sixteen gallon cart, 0:21:56.236 --> 0:21:58.236 I'm gonna save like twenty or thirty bucks a month. 0:21:58.396 --> 0:22:01.236