1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin. The other day, I was talking with Matt Rogers 2 00:00:22,996 --> 00:00:28,876 Speaker 1: about thermostats, specifically the way home thermostats looked back around 3 00:00:28,876 --> 00:00:31,556 Speaker 1: twenty ten. If folks even know what a VCR is, 4 00:00:31,956 --> 00:00:34,556 Speaker 1: they had these like VCR like interfaces, like it would 5 00:00:34,556 --> 00:00:37,676 Speaker 1: like just blink twelve or blink eights and you have 6 00:00:37,716 --> 00:00:40,956 Speaker 1: no idea what to do. They're responsible for like some 7 00:00:41,156 --> 00:00:46,316 Speaker 1: between eight and ten percent of global emissions energies controlled 8 00:00:46,356 --> 00:00:49,236 Speaker 1: by this thirty nine dollars plastic box in the wall. 9 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:52,476 Speaker 1: No one cared about that product, despite it being so 10 00:00:52,516 --> 00:00:54,836 Speaker 1: important to our daily lives. So I kind of just 11 00:00:54,836 --> 00:00:56,476 Speaker 1: had to dig in and fix it. And that's what 12 00:00:56,556 --> 00:01:00,436 Speaker 1: I spent the next nearly decade doing. And by dig 13 00:01:00,436 --> 00:01:03,996 Speaker 1: in and fix it, Matt means that he co founded Nest, 14 00:01:04,316 --> 00:01:08,076 Speaker 1: a smart thermostat company that Google ultimately bought for around 15 00:01:08,156 --> 00:01:12,316 Speaker 1: four billion dollars. And that's the kind of stuff that 16 00:01:12,316 --> 00:01:14,516 Speaker 1: gets me really interested, like, what are these things that 17 00:01:14,556 --> 00:01:17,196 Speaker 1: are out there that are really important but we just 18 00:01:17,316 --> 00:01:20,636 Speaker 1: kind of take for granted. Now Matt thinks he's found 19 00:01:20,716 --> 00:01:24,876 Speaker 1: his next big, really important, taken for granted thing. The 20 00:01:25,036 --> 00:01:34,396 Speaker 1: garbage in your kitchen. I'm Jacob Goldstein. This is what's 21 00:01:34,396 --> 00:01:37,316 Speaker 1: your problem? My guest today is Matt Rogers, the co 22 00:01:37,476 --> 00:01:41,036 Speaker 1: founder of a new company called Mill. This is the 23 00:01:41,156 --> 00:01:43,716 Speaker 1: last episode in our series on the future of food, 24 00:01:43,756 --> 00:01:46,916 Speaker 1: and appropriately enough, we're talking about what happens to food 25 00:01:47,196 --> 00:01:50,676 Speaker 1: after we're done with it. Matt's problem is this, how 26 00:01:50,716 --> 00:01:52,756 Speaker 1: do you turn the food you throw in the garbage 27 00:01:53,036 --> 00:01:57,276 Speaker 1: back into food. When Matt describes Mill, it sounds for 28 00:01:57,316 --> 00:01:59,636 Speaker 1: a while like he's just talking about a high tech 29 00:01:59,716 --> 00:02:04,476 Speaker 1: garbage can. But then there is this twist. I don't 30 00:02:04,516 --> 00:02:06,556 Speaker 1: want to spoil it, but I will say that it 31 00:02:06,676 --> 00:02:09,356 Speaker 1: is a big twist that will be hard to pull off. 32 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:12,556 Speaker 1: You might not work, but if it works, it could 33 00:02:12,556 --> 00:02:16,636 Speaker 1: be a really big deal. Mill just came out of 34 00:02:16,676 --> 00:02:19,356 Speaker 1: stealth mode a few weeks ago, but Matt has been 35 00:02:19,356 --> 00:02:21,556 Speaker 1: working on the project since the early days of the 36 00:02:21,596 --> 00:02:26,476 Speaker 1: pandemic Spring twenty twenty. We're all stuck in our houses, 37 00:02:26,556 --> 00:02:31,436 Speaker 1: locked in, kind of walling on our own filth, screaming children, 38 00:02:31,956 --> 00:02:34,676 Speaker 1: you know all the things. I get a call from 39 00:02:34,676 --> 00:02:38,476 Speaker 1: an old colleague from Nest, Harry Tanabaum, who someone I 40 00:02:38,556 --> 00:02:40,236 Speaker 1: was very close to on the Nest team. I mentored 41 00:02:40,316 --> 00:02:42,836 Speaker 1: him for a lot of years. I am pacing on 42 00:02:42,876 --> 00:02:45,916 Speaker 1: the balcony in our San Francisco house. No one is 43 00:02:45,916 --> 00:02:49,316 Speaker 1: allowed to leave their home. I get a call and 44 00:02:49,636 --> 00:02:52,476 Speaker 1: he says, Matt, Matt, I've been reading a lot of 45 00:02:52,516 --> 00:02:57,716 Speaker 1: PDFs and websites about waste and no, like seriously, it's 46 00:02:57,756 --> 00:02:59,596 Speaker 1: a it's a very hairy thing that could open. That's 47 00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:02,676 Speaker 1: a good lead. I'm reading DAFs about waste. It's like, 48 00:03:03,196 --> 00:03:05,596 Speaker 1: this is really bad. It's much worse than we think. 49 00:03:05,956 --> 00:03:10,116 Speaker 1: And waste, waste meaning garbage like waste like garbage, Yes, 50 00:03:10,196 --> 00:03:12,556 Speaker 1: Like one minute something is valuable and we use it 51 00:03:12,596 --> 00:03:15,156 Speaker 1: and we love it, and the next minute it's like, oh, 52 00:03:15,196 --> 00:03:18,476 Speaker 1: we got to toss this away, And what's it about 53 00:03:18,516 --> 00:03:22,116 Speaker 1: that minute where it transitions from like valuable and awesome 54 00:03:22,356 --> 00:03:27,396 Speaker 1: to like trash? Huh? And that was intriguing to me. 55 00:03:27,436 --> 00:03:30,436 Speaker 1: And so it's almost like it's almost like the philosophy 56 00:03:30,596 --> 00:03:35,156 Speaker 1: of garbage, like garbage as an idea. Indeed, yes, like 57 00:03:35,916 --> 00:03:42,036 Speaker 1: is trash inevitable? And we didn't discuss this on this call, 58 00:03:42,076 --> 00:03:44,436 Speaker 1: but like as as Harry and I dug into it 59 00:03:44,436 --> 00:03:47,996 Speaker 1: over the months, the learning was waste as an existent nature, 60 00:03:48,596 --> 00:03:53,196 Speaker 1: like waste is like human construct and it is not inevitable. 61 00:03:53,676 --> 00:03:55,476 Speaker 1: And that was kind of the sea crystal of this 62 00:03:55,556 --> 00:03:57,476 Speaker 1: idea of like, oh, like what if we made a 63 00:03:57,516 --> 00:04:00,076 Speaker 1: company that could end waste and what would that look like? 64 00:04:00,676 --> 00:04:02,716 Speaker 1: And I knew from my insight days, from my family 65 00:04:02,756 --> 00:04:06,236 Speaker 1: office work, I knew how big the climate, the climate 66 00:04:06,276 --> 00:04:09,036 Speaker 1: part of this equation was. And what is the connect 67 00:04:09,436 --> 00:04:13,316 Speaker 1: between food waste and climate change? Okay, I guess yeah, 68 00:04:13,316 --> 00:04:16,156 Speaker 1: that's this is not obvious. It wasn't obvious to us either. 69 00:04:16,836 --> 00:04:20,996 Speaker 1: It takes a lot of energy, water, land to grow 70 00:04:21,036 --> 00:04:24,996 Speaker 1: our food. We have to drive it in trucks, often refrigerated, 71 00:04:25,156 --> 00:04:28,876 Speaker 1: to get to grocery stores, get to our houses. It's 72 00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:32,716 Speaker 1: like tennish percent of global emissions is the food that 73 00:04:32,716 --> 00:04:35,636 Speaker 1: we've wasted. And then when food goes to landfill. This 74 00:04:35,716 --> 00:04:39,076 Speaker 1: is all obviously not intuitive either. It doesn't just biodegrade, 75 00:04:39,796 --> 00:04:41,916 Speaker 1: like the bid appeal of trash is actively a bad 76 00:04:41,956 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 1: thing because it releases methane, which is like an ad 77 00:04:45,036 --> 00:04:48,756 Speaker 1: x more potent greenhouse gas than CO two. Okay, so 78 00:04:49,436 --> 00:04:51,796 Speaker 1: you got the call from Harry, When do you decide 79 00:04:51,836 --> 00:04:54,596 Speaker 1: that you're in that you're gonna get back in started 80 00:04:54,636 --> 00:04:57,756 Speaker 1: other company? Oh? Literally two hours later? Again, like this 81 00:04:57,796 --> 00:05:02,996 Speaker 1: is the my instincts are pretty strong and big problem 82 00:05:03,756 --> 00:05:08,036 Speaker 1: and a problem that is worth solving that I had 83 00:05:08,036 --> 00:05:11,356 Speaker 1: been looking at and had not seen kind of a 84 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:14,196 Speaker 1: holistic solution yet, and also a problem that I could 85 00:05:14,236 --> 00:05:17,676 Speaker 1: help on. Like when I think about what makes a 86 00:05:17,756 --> 00:05:21,316 Speaker 1: great entrepreneur, it's not just that like they've got this 87 00:05:21,396 --> 00:05:23,836 Speaker 1: drive to solve a problem and the problem is really big, 88 00:05:24,156 --> 00:05:26,716 Speaker 1: but also like do they have the skills to actually 89 00:05:26,716 --> 00:05:30,596 Speaker 1: impact that problem? And this is one really where the 90 00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:34,436 Speaker 1: problem is behavior. It's like what we do in our kitchens. 91 00:05:35,116 --> 00:05:37,356 Speaker 1: And that's the thing. Actually I know a lot about 92 00:05:37,676 --> 00:05:39,556 Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in people's homes helping 93 00:05:39,596 --> 00:05:42,356 Speaker 1: design great products. What are you guys imagining when it's 94 00:05:42,396 --> 00:05:45,516 Speaker 1: just you and Harry thinking, Okay, we're gonna do this, Like, 95 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:48,796 Speaker 1: what's the kind of vague set of thoughts you have 96 00:05:48,836 --> 00:05:51,836 Speaker 1: about what to actually do? The first thought is, what 97 00:05:51,956 --> 00:05:55,236 Speaker 1: if we built a new product that would go in 98 00:05:55,276 --> 00:05:59,076 Speaker 1: your home to make it really easy to separate food 99 00:05:59,076 --> 00:06:01,516 Speaker 1: waste at home. We're told that it's a good thing 100 00:06:01,556 --> 00:06:04,516 Speaker 1: to do, but it's really hard to do it and 101 00:06:05,396 --> 00:06:08,396 Speaker 1: for our household. Swathie and I are like we are 102 00:06:08,476 --> 00:06:11,636 Speaker 1: climate evangelists. We spend our whole life working on climate change, 103 00:06:11,836 --> 00:06:15,316 Speaker 1: and we've tried composting. We actually had one of those 104 00:06:15,316 --> 00:06:18,596 Speaker 1: countertop bowls in our kitchen and there was a point 105 00:06:18,676 --> 00:06:21,076 Speaker 1: where we actually had to stop because the fruit flies 106 00:06:21,196 --> 00:06:23,916 Speaker 1: literally invaded our house and we had this like yellow 107 00:06:23,996 --> 00:06:27,956 Speaker 1: sticky paper hang all around our kitchen. It just was 108 00:06:27,996 --> 00:06:31,276 Speaker 1: way too hard. So most people don't know that it's 109 00:06:31,316 --> 00:06:33,356 Speaker 1: important to separate your food waste, and for those who 110 00:06:33,436 --> 00:06:37,236 Speaker 1: do know it's important, it's really hard to do it. Okay, 111 00:06:37,916 --> 00:06:40,996 Speaker 1: I buy all that, And what are you imagining when 112 00:06:41,076 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 1: you start building a bin? What do you have in 113 00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:45,436 Speaker 1: your mind? What is this trash can going to do? 114 00:06:45,916 --> 00:06:49,916 Speaker 1: So first and foremost, it has to not smell, And 115 00:06:50,316 --> 00:06:52,756 Speaker 1: that's a crazy thing to say. You're going to put 116 00:06:52,756 --> 00:06:56,156 Speaker 1: food in it and leave it there for days? Pasably 117 00:06:56,436 --> 00:07:01,596 Speaker 1: it and it has week weeks weeks? Why weeks? Why weeks? Ah? 118 00:07:02,356 --> 00:07:05,156 Speaker 1: So why weeks? If you're going to change a daily ritual, 119 00:07:05,356 --> 00:07:07,516 Speaker 1: it's got to be really easy. It's got to be 120 00:07:07,596 --> 00:07:11,916 Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the world. And today, the easiest 121 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:13,236 Speaker 1: thing to do with your food waste is throw it 122 00:07:13,276 --> 00:07:16,076 Speaker 1: in the trash And the side effect of that is 123 00:07:16,116 --> 00:07:19,356 Speaker 1: you're taking out the trash almost every day. So part 124 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,436 Speaker 1: of building a better system is not only can it 125 00:07:22,676 --> 00:07:26,436 Speaker 1: not smell, but like, can we drop that chore? Could 126 00:07:26,476 --> 00:07:28,996 Speaker 1: you take out the trash like once or twice a month? Okay, 127 00:07:29,076 --> 00:07:30,716 Speaker 1: that is a very tall task if you can think 128 00:07:30,756 --> 00:07:33,516 Speaker 1: about that way, right, I mean, like even in one day, 129 00:07:33,556 --> 00:07:36,236 Speaker 1: that countertop bin is thinking I know I have one, 130 00:07:36,356 --> 00:07:39,076 Speaker 1: and it's true. So that was kind of the task 131 00:07:39,116 --> 00:07:40,916 Speaker 1: we set out for ourselves. So how do you figure 132 00:07:40,956 --> 00:07:46,636 Speaker 1: out that part? Yes, okay, we spent honestly months on experimentation, 133 00:07:47,036 --> 00:07:49,316 Speaker 1: and tell me some of the things you tried that 134 00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:52,116 Speaker 1: didn't work. Oh okay, I think my favorite experiment that 135 00:07:52,156 --> 00:07:56,236 Speaker 1: didn't work is we try this kind of microbial technology 136 00:07:56,476 --> 00:08:00,796 Speaker 1: and are there bugs or fun guy that can kind 137 00:08:00,796 --> 00:08:04,116 Speaker 1: of break down food and eat it. And that's kind 138 00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:06,756 Speaker 1: of some of the essence of how composting works. It 139 00:08:06,756 --> 00:08:09,356 Speaker 1: turns out actually a lot of those mechanisms are actually 140 00:08:09,356 --> 00:08:13,716 Speaker 1: inherently stinky. I mean, presumably we evolved to be a 141 00:08:13,836 --> 00:08:18,636 Speaker 1: verse to rotting food basically, right, Like it smells bad 142 00:08:18,636 --> 00:08:21,196 Speaker 1: to us for a reason. It smells bad because if 143 00:08:21,316 --> 00:08:24,156 Speaker 1: danger danger, you will get sick. So okay, so the 144 00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:29,156 Speaker 1: microbes don't work so what happens Our chief scientist who 145 00:08:29,236 --> 00:08:33,476 Speaker 1: kind of leads our Seattle team, doctor Jeff Hill, was 146 00:08:33,876 --> 00:08:38,556 Speaker 1: burning some food scraps in his lab like literally like 147 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:41,156 Speaker 1: like one of these like pyrolyzing ovens was laying them 148 00:08:41,156 --> 00:08:46,196 Speaker 1: on fire and yeah, scientists, two fun stuff. I gotta 149 00:08:46,196 --> 00:08:49,436 Speaker 1: get one of those ovens. And he's like, Matt Harry, 150 00:08:51,076 --> 00:08:55,036 Speaker 1: food waste has more energy than wood, and we're like, 151 00:08:55,116 --> 00:08:56,676 Speaker 1: what I mean? It has more energy than wood? And 152 00:08:56,756 --> 00:08:59,316 Speaker 1: a guess this this makes sense, Like our food has calories. 153 00:08:59,556 --> 00:09:02,196 Speaker 1: Calories is energy. So like we start digging in to 154 00:09:02,356 --> 00:09:04,476 Speaker 1: like what he's learning, and he's like, wait a second, here, 155 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:07,476 Speaker 1: if we dry the food a kins like drying out wood, 156 00:09:07,556 --> 00:09:12,436 Speaker 1: like it preserves the energy, and like, oh, this is cool. 157 00:09:13,756 --> 00:09:16,036 Speaker 1: And then he also has his next Aha, he's looking 158 00:09:16,076 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 1: at the materials and he's like, if we dry out, 159 00:09:18,676 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 1: it preserves the nutrients, so like preserve the calories, preserved 160 00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:26,236 Speaker 1: the nutrients. Like oh, and like in hindsight, this is 161 00:09:26,236 --> 00:09:29,156 Speaker 1: like a no brainer, like oh, like we just invented 162 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:31,596 Speaker 1: drying things out. That's like a dehydration. Like we've been 163 00:09:31,636 --> 00:09:34,476 Speaker 1: in We've been in this for astronaut food for decades, right, 164 00:09:34,516 --> 00:09:37,636 Speaker 1: like or like beef jerky. It's like this has existed 165 00:09:37,676 --> 00:09:40,996 Speaker 1: for really thousands of year old technology. That's why this 166 00:09:41,076 --> 00:09:44,196 Speaker 1: is cool. So what we land is like if we 167 00:09:44,276 --> 00:09:48,996 Speaker 1: dehydrate the food, it doesn't smell because it's preserved basically. 168 00:09:49,116 --> 00:09:51,716 Speaker 1: So now you still have the problem if you want 169 00:09:51,716 --> 00:09:54,556 Speaker 1: it to be there for weeks. You know, people throw 170 00:09:54,556 --> 00:09:56,396 Speaker 1: away too much food, right, the trash can is gonna 171 00:09:56,396 --> 00:09:59,556 Speaker 1: get full, correct exactly, So uh, like beef jerky is 172 00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:01,996 Speaker 1: still pretty big. So it's cool is we have this 173 00:10:02,076 --> 00:10:03,756 Speaker 1: kind of notion of like you dry it and you 174 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:06,396 Speaker 1: grind it at the same time. So and these things 175 00:10:06,436 --> 00:10:09,596 Speaker 1: actually work synergistically because as you grow ended up, it 176 00:10:09,596 --> 00:10:12,956 Speaker 1: makes it easier to get the water out. And food 177 00:10:13,036 --> 00:10:16,796 Speaker 1: is about eighty percent water, so as you're grinding and 178 00:10:16,876 --> 00:10:20,636 Speaker 1: drying it out, it gets really really small, really really small, 179 00:10:20,676 --> 00:10:24,676 Speaker 1: like eighty percent size reduction. So if you can imagine, 180 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:27,036 Speaker 1: you know, you've got a big dinner party and you 181 00:10:27,276 --> 00:10:29,556 Speaker 1: filled up the bin. You wake up the next morning 182 00:10:29,596 --> 00:10:32,676 Speaker 1: and there's like this brown powder at the bottom. You're like, oh, 183 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:34,996 Speaker 1: where did all the food go? It's because there's mostly water, 184 00:10:36,276 --> 00:10:40,516 Speaker 1: so okay, So like that is a really elegant plan 185 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:44,156 Speaker 1: I imagine it's hard to actually make all that happen 186 00:10:44,356 --> 00:10:47,076 Speaker 1: inside a trash can that somebody can just put in 187 00:10:47,116 --> 00:10:52,916 Speaker 1: their kitchen and plug in. Incredibly difficult, Yes, incredibly difficult. One. 188 00:10:52,996 --> 00:10:55,636 Speaker 1: It's like in the getting to from the wetness to 189 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:58,676 Speaker 1: the dryness, there's still some wetness to get there. So 190 00:10:59,396 --> 00:11:01,676 Speaker 1: what do you do with any odors that are created 191 00:11:01,716 --> 00:11:04,196 Speaker 1: in that that twenty four hour period of the twelve 192 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:08,756 Speaker 1: hour period. And our engineers kind of scoured the world 193 00:11:08,756 --> 00:11:14,436 Speaker 1: for like the most effective, the highest surface area activating 194 00:11:14,476 --> 00:11:18,156 Speaker 1: charcoal in the world, and we found this really cool 195 00:11:18,236 --> 00:11:22,676 Speaker 1: coconut core based product that has like a square mile 196 00:11:23,036 --> 00:11:26,796 Speaker 1: of surface area in our little can. It is pretty wild. 197 00:11:26,996 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 1: So so you you put all this together and you 198 00:11:29,436 --> 00:11:31,916 Speaker 1: make a thing. You make a high tech trash can 199 00:11:31,996 --> 00:11:34,516 Speaker 1: that will grind up and dry out your food waste. 200 00:11:35,076 --> 00:11:37,076 Speaker 1: Tell me about the thing you landed on. What's it 201 00:11:37,116 --> 00:11:40,476 Speaker 1: look like? How does it work? Yes? So what we 202 00:11:40,556 --> 00:11:43,756 Speaker 1: what we built is a new kind of bin that 203 00:11:44,756 --> 00:11:47,836 Speaker 1: it's about two feet tall, looks like a kitchen trash bin, 204 00:11:48,116 --> 00:11:53,676 Speaker 1: beautiful like white white steel wood vinear top, like a 205 00:11:53,676 --> 00:11:57,356 Speaker 1: beautiful steel pedal, and is effectively a bottomless pit so 206 00:11:57,556 --> 00:12:00,996 Speaker 1: two feet tall, normal size of trash bin. But because 207 00:12:00,996 --> 00:12:04,476 Speaker 1: it's drying things out automatically, every night, you fill it 208 00:12:04,556 --> 00:12:06,516 Speaker 1: up and during the day and you wake up the 209 00:12:06,556 --> 00:12:09,556 Speaker 1: next morning and it's basically empty. It takes three ish 210 00:12:09,556 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 1: weeks to fill up. What does it look like after 211 00:12:11,476 --> 00:12:13,356 Speaker 1: it's ground up and dry. It's like looks a coffee grounds. 212 00:12:13,396 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 1: It's actually we call it food ground coffe ground because 213 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:17,636 Speaker 1: it literally looks a coffee grounds. Okay, and it's a 214 00:12:17,756 --> 00:12:21,116 Speaker 1: very familiar thing, like, oh, like brown's dry, it's kind 215 00:12:21,116 --> 00:12:24,276 Speaker 1: of fluffy. Yeah, it's coffee grounds, but it's food. But 216 00:12:24,356 --> 00:12:28,716 Speaker 1: it's cool. Because this material is dry and small and 217 00:12:28,796 --> 00:12:30,916 Speaker 1: shelf stable, we don't need to get it out of 218 00:12:30,956 --> 00:12:33,276 Speaker 1: the house in a garbage truck anymore. You could put 219 00:12:33,316 --> 00:12:35,236 Speaker 1: it in the mail. So we did a partnership with 220 00:12:35,276 --> 00:12:37,916 Speaker 1: the US Postal Service to put this material in the 221 00:12:37,956 --> 00:12:40,596 Speaker 1: mail back to us. Wait, that's a that is a 222 00:12:40,676 --> 00:12:44,116 Speaker 1: major twist putting it in the mail. It is indeed 223 00:12:44,116 --> 00:12:50,316 Speaker 1: it was for us too. Why the mail? Why the mail? 224 00:12:50,916 --> 00:12:54,796 Speaker 1: And also what is Matt and Mill gonna do with 225 00:12:54,836 --> 00:12:57,796 Speaker 1: all of the food garbage that people are starting even 226 00:12:57,836 --> 00:13:01,076 Speaker 1: now to send back to Mill in the mail? That 227 00:13:01,236 --> 00:13:11,676 Speaker 1: we'll explain everything in a minute. Okay, let's get back 228 00:13:11,676 --> 00:13:14,116 Speaker 1: to the show. Matt is explaining how he and his 229 00:13:14,196 --> 00:13:18,796 Speaker 1: colleagues decided to have customers mail their garbage back to Mill, 230 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,756 Speaker 1: and also how Mill is going to try and turn 231 00:13:21,796 --> 00:13:26,396 Speaker 1: that garbage into food for chickens. Why the mail, Like 232 00:13:26,396 --> 00:13:29,636 Speaker 1: like I feel like you've sort of solved the problem already, 233 00:13:29,716 --> 00:13:32,196 Speaker 1: Like I don't know what's what's going on with the mail? 234 00:13:32,196 --> 00:13:34,636 Speaker 1: Why the mail? Well, as I mentioned, like, our lead 235 00:13:34,716 --> 00:13:38,756 Speaker 1: scientists had spent months then analyzing this material and it 236 00:13:38,796 --> 00:13:41,796 Speaker 1: has energy, it has calories as nutrition, and he had 237 00:13:41,876 --> 00:13:45,916 Speaker 1: this moment where he's feeding it to his chickens in 238 00:13:45,956 --> 00:13:51,156 Speaker 1: his backyard and they love it. And we talked, we 239 00:13:51,156 --> 00:13:54,316 Speaker 1: talked to some more scientific advisors, we talked to some 240 00:13:54,396 --> 00:13:56,996 Speaker 1: experts and they're like, yeah, this is this is a thing. 241 00:13:57,036 --> 00:14:00,876 Speaker 1: Like we used to do this as a society back 242 00:14:00,876 --> 00:14:03,796 Speaker 1: in the day. Whatever food we didn't eat went into 243 00:14:03,796 --> 00:14:06,076 Speaker 1: the backyard to feed the chickens of the picks. That's 244 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:10,236 Speaker 1: how humans used to live. And as society has gotten 245 00:14:10,236 --> 00:14:12,516 Speaker 1: more and more industrialized, we've kind of gone away for 246 00:14:12,596 --> 00:14:14,956 Speaker 1: that and we don't farm in our backyards anymore. That's 247 00:14:15,036 --> 00:14:17,076 Speaker 1: just not how we live. Most of us don't live 248 00:14:17,116 --> 00:14:19,756 Speaker 1: that way. So just that you know, it would be 249 00:14:19,796 --> 00:14:23,556 Speaker 1: a shame to compost this stuff. It's rocket fuel. Like 250 00:14:24,036 --> 00:14:26,516 Speaker 1: we got to preserve the food. We need to get 251 00:14:26,516 --> 00:14:28,876 Speaker 1: it back to us so we can get it to farms. 252 00:14:29,716 --> 00:14:32,636 Speaker 1: And as you can imagine, like that's a pretty tall task, 253 00:14:32,676 --> 00:14:35,276 Speaker 1: Like how do you get like hundreds of pounds of 254 00:14:35,316 --> 00:14:38,996 Speaker 1: material per household? How do you collect that? Suddenly you're 255 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:42,276 Speaker 1: in a super different business, right, Like sure, selling people 256 00:14:42,276 --> 00:14:45,636 Speaker 1: a fancy trash can, like I get that, but like 257 00:14:45,796 --> 00:14:49,756 Speaker 1: having them mail back to you the dried out food 258 00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: garbage way, It's like that's like a huge change in 259 00:14:53,916 --> 00:14:56,076 Speaker 1: what I'm imagining you doing. And it seems like a 260 00:14:56,156 --> 00:14:59,316 Speaker 1: huge change in complexity. It seems borderline absurd that I'm 261 00:14:59,356 --> 00:15:02,356 Speaker 1: gonna be mailing back my garbage to you. This is 262 00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:06,076 Speaker 1: our journey. I would say. There's a combination of skill 263 00:15:06,116 --> 00:15:09,996 Speaker 1: and luck in all entrepreneurship. Yeah. One of our founding 264 00:15:09,996 --> 00:15:14,116 Speaker 1: team members, Alissa Pollock, was one of the first people 265 00:15:14,356 --> 00:15:16,436 Speaker 1: at uber eats. She was one of the founding team 266 00:15:16,436 --> 00:15:18,516 Speaker 1: members of uber Eats and ran business operations for them, 267 00:15:19,236 --> 00:15:21,756 Speaker 1: and so she had looked at all sorts of different 268 00:15:22,116 --> 00:15:27,916 Speaker 1: logistics models that exist, and you know, she's super creative. 269 00:15:27,916 --> 00:15:29,196 Speaker 1: And one of the things that she pushed us on 270 00:15:29,316 --> 00:15:31,596 Speaker 1: is like, hey, like we don't need to drive trucks 271 00:15:31,596 --> 00:15:34,476 Speaker 1: around to pick this stuff up. Like it's small and light, Like, 272 00:15:35,196 --> 00:15:37,516 Speaker 1: let's put in a package and ship it. So, like, 273 00:15:37,716 --> 00:15:40,676 Speaker 1: we made some calls and we talked to some folks 274 00:15:41,396 --> 00:15:43,316 Speaker 1: at the postal Service and a few folks that were 275 00:15:43,356 --> 00:15:45,716 Speaker 1: retired from the postal service. We talked to some of 276 00:15:45,716 --> 00:15:51,116 Speaker 1: the people who do package collection and I was like, yeah, 277 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:53,996 Speaker 1: that seems doable, Like you could mail a whole tree. 278 00:15:54,076 --> 00:15:56,876 Speaker 1: These days, you put all sorts of stuff in the mail, 279 00:15:56,956 --> 00:15:59,676 Speaker 1: and especially because it's shelf stable, like, yeah, we could 280 00:15:59,676 --> 00:16:02,956 Speaker 1: pick this up. And one of the first kind of 281 00:16:02,956 --> 00:16:04,396 Speaker 1: thoughts we have is like, oh, like this can't be 282 00:16:04,396 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: good for the environment, like mailing boxes of dried food. 283 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:10,876 Speaker 1: That can't be a good thing. Right, So a lot 284 00:16:10,876 --> 00:16:13,156 Speaker 1: of you you got a lot of moving stuff around 285 00:16:13,236 --> 00:16:16,276 Speaker 1: driving it, that's right, I think that this can't be 286 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:19,356 Speaker 1: a good thing, right. So, being an environmentally conscious team, 287 00:16:19,356 --> 00:16:22,556 Speaker 1: we actually did the analysis. We built a full life 288 00:16:22,596 --> 00:16:26,076 Speaker 1: cycle analysis of this, and we realize actually, like it's diminimous. Okay, 289 00:16:26,236 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 1: the methane generating power of this food waste is so high. 290 00:16:29,636 --> 00:16:32,996 Speaker 1: And actually the trucks from the mail are already come 291 00:16:33,036 --> 00:16:36,036 Speaker 1: in your house anyway. Yeah, like they're dropping off packages, 292 00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:38,596 Speaker 1: the dropping of letters every single day, and the trucks 293 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:41,556 Speaker 1: usually go back empty. I buy the carbon footprint, that 294 00:16:41,676 --> 00:16:45,516 Speaker 1: sort of climate change piece. It's more the operational part 295 00:16:45,556 --> 00:16:48,716 Speaker 1: of this, like, well, we haven't even gotten to the 296 00:16:48,716 --> 00:16:51,356 Speaker 1: point like sure, let's say I can get the food 297 00:16:51,356 --> 00:16:53,036 Speaker 1: waste back to you. Let's say it's convenient for me. 298 00:16:53,116 --> 00:16:55,676 Speaker 1: Let's say the environmental footprint is fine, you still gotta 299 00:16:55,796 --> 00:16:58,436 Speaker 1: get it to a chicken. And by the way, you 300 00:16:58,516 --> 00:17:01,396 Speaker 1: might be feeding that chicken the chicken that I ate 301 00:17:01,476 --> 00:17:03,996 Speaker 1: and dried out, which feels a little weird. Is it? 302 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:06,356 Speaker 1: Is there a sort of health risk there for like 303 00:17:06,596 --> 00:17:10,116 Speaker 1: any kind of human consumption of cons eating chicken, Like 304 00:17:10,276 --> 00:17:13,556 Speaker 1: is that a piece one is concerned about? So the 305 00:17:13,636 --> 00:17:16,516 Speaker 1: key is we get the material back to us, we 306 00:17:16,956 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: filter out any contaminants, We pasteurize the material again, so 307 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:23,116 Speaker 1: kill any pathogens those kind of things, and we blend 308 00:17:23,116 --> 00:17:26,316 Speaker 1: it all together. So let's say, like if you only pizza, 309 00:17:26,476 --> 00:17:29,956 Speaker 1: we're gonna blend your pizza scrap household with everybody else. 310 00:17:30,316 --> 00:17:32,796 Speaker 1: So you have a factory now that to do this, 311 00:17:33,476 --> 00:17:36,956 Speaker 1: Like have you built this in advance? Yep, of course, 312 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:39,276 Speaker 1: we gotta build the whole end to end. This is 313 00:17:39,356 --> 00:17:42,036 Speaker 1: so much harder than tell it a fancy trash can. 314 00:17:42,316 --> 00:17:44,236 Speaker 1: This is this is so much harder the nest and 315 00:17:44,276 --> 00:17:47,436 Speaker 1: it seems like a huge amount of the sort of 316 00:17:47,476 --> 00:17:51,116 Speaker 1: operational challenge. Slash risk is the back end, right, Like 317 00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:53,436 Speaker 1: it seems like in a weird way, drying out the 318 00:17:53,436 --> 00:17:57,236 Speaker 1: trash is the easy part, and like getting it from 319 00:17:57,276 --> 00:18:00,196 Speaker 1: my house to a chicken, that part seems like I can't. 320 00:18:00,476 --> 00:18:03,316 Speaker 1: That part seems very hard and like it might not work. Yeah, 321 00:18:03,356 --> 00:18:06,356 Speaker 1: this is the double black Diamond of startups. Yeah, it's 322 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:10,476 Speaker 1: like just building hardware is hard, Like most hardware startups 323 00:18:10,516 --> 00:18:15,076 Speaker 1: fail because of execution, right, like that, A, you have 324 00:18:15,116 --> 00:18:17,356 Speaker 1: a marginal costs that you don't have in software, and 325 00:18:17,396 --> 00:18:18,716 Speaker 1: you have to get lots of people to buy it, 326 00:18:18,756 --> 00:18:20,436 Speaker 1: and you have scale problems, like it's hard to sell 327 00:18:20,436 --> 00:18:22,956 Speaker 1: a fancy trash can. And this is so much harder 328 00:18:22,996 --> 00:18:26,516 Speaker 1: than selling a fancy trash can. Right, that's right, but 329 00:18:26,596 --> 00:18:28,876 Speaker 1: we've got to solve it. End to end again, like, okay, 330 00:18:28,956 --> 00:18:31,476 Speaker 1: if there's any friction for people, they're going to not 331 00:18:31,556 --> 00:18:34,956 Speaker 1: do it. And what are you going to do with 332 00:18:35,236 --> 00:18:38,036 Speaker 1: hundreds of pounds of dried food? So we had to 333 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:41,276 Speaker 1: get it back. Where is your processing facility? You have this? 334 00:18:41,316 --> 00:18:44,356 Speaker 1: It exists now are first ones outside Seattle, and over 335 00:18:44,476 --> 00:18:47,436 Speaker 1: time we see us building more and more around the country. Like, 336 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:50,836 Speaker 1: as we have more customers, we have more density, we 337 00:18:50,836 --> 00:18:54,396 Speaker 1: should build facilities in every city. So you process it 338 00:18:54,436 --> 00:18:57,076 Speaker 1: and then you sell it to chicken farmers as chicken food. 339 00:18:57,236 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: We sell it to farmers as chicken foods, as an 340 00:18:59,436 --> 00:19:01,716 Speaker 1: ingredient to chicken food. It won't be the exclusive thing 341 00:19:01,756 --> 00:19:04,716 Speaker 1: a chicken will eat, but it's like it's called twenty 342 00:19:04,756 --> 00:19:07,236 Speaker 1: twenty five percent of a chicken's diet. Is there any 343 00:19:07,276 --> 00:19:10,236 Speaker 1: kind of regulatory hurdle you have to clear for this 344 00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:13,116 Speaker 1: to work? We actually are actively going through this today, 345 00:19:13,396 --> 00:19:17,516 Speaker 1: Like we are deep in the scientific and regulatory process 346 00:19:17,516 --> 00:19:21,356 Speaker 1: and review for this new feed ingredient. Okay, so you 347 00:19:21,396 --> 00:19:24,596 Speaker 1: have to get approval from what USDA or something. It's 348 00:19:24,636 --> 00:19:27,836 Speaker 1: kind of a blend of USDA and FDA. We are 349 00:19:27,836 --> 00:19:30,356 Speaker 1: still working through their process. So if your product is 350 00:19:30,356 --> 00:19:32,196 Speaker 1: a hit. Are you going to have a warehouse full 351 00:19:32,236 --> 00:19:35,156 Speaker 1: of prime chicken food ingredient that you can't sell yet? 352 00:19:35,356 --> 00:19:40,076 Speaker 1: Is that a risk at this moment? Not yet. We're 353 00:19:40,076 --> 00:19:42,876 Speaker 1: gonna need to use a lot of the feed we 354 00:19:42,996 --> 00:19:45,676 Speaker 1: create for R and D and for the you know, 355 00:19:45,716 --> 00:19:48,276 Speaker 1: for the first several weeks months, we're probably gonna use 356 00:19:48,316 --> 00:19:52,156 Speaker 1: most of this material for R and D. Wow, Okay, 357 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:55,236 Speaker 1: so I think I've got the whole arc. We've got 358 00:19:55,236 --> 00:19:57,476 Speaker 1: the whole arc. Well, let me ask you one more question. 359 00:19:57,716 --> 00:20:01,516 Speaker 1: What's the business model? Ah? So the business model is 360 00:20:01,716 --> 00:20:04,276 Speaker 1: we've built this all, this, this full loop from your 361 00:20:04,356 --> 00:20:07,156 Speaker 1: kitchen table all the way back to the farm, and 362 00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:09,836 Speaker 1: we've built it as a membership. So you don't buy 363 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:13,716 Speaker 1: the bin okay, like you don't buy new charcoal filters 364 00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:15,916 Speaker 1: when they run out. You don't pay for the mail. 365 00:20:16,196 --> 00:20:19,076 Speaker 1: It's all included for about a dollar a day a dolt, 366 00:20:19,156 --> 00:20:21,796 Speaker 1: So like thirty bucks a month, thirty three dollars a month. 367 00:20:21,956 --> 00:20:24,996 Speaker 1: Thirty three dollars a month is kind of a lot 368 00:20:25,156 --> 00:20:29,116 Speaker 1: for garbage, right, it's whatever of four hundred bucks a year, 369 00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:33,036 Speaker 1: certainly if you're not paying for the kind of marginal 370 00:20:33,156 --> 00:20:36,556 Speaker 1: garbage bag. Right, if it's if it's a true incremental cost, 371 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:39,356 Speaker 1: certainly most people aren't going to pay that. You don't 372 00:20:39,396 --> 00:20:42,356 Speaker 1: need most people. So like who is your who is 373 00:20:42,356 --> 00:20:45,916 Speaker 1: your target audience? Who are you starting with target customer? 374 00:20:45,916 --> 00:20:47,956 Speaker 1: I should say yeah. So the way we think about 375 00:20:47,996 --> 00:20:51,716 Speaker 1: it today is for folks who have felt the pain. 376 00:20:51,916 --> 00:20:53,196 Speaker 1: And when I say the pain like the pain that 377 00:20:53,276 --> 00:20:55,756 Speaker 1: my family had, they had the fruit flies and made 378 00:20:55,836 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 1: Maybe they've got rats, Yeah, maybe they've they've tried composting 379 00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:01,676 Speaker 1: and they just don't have the time, order the space 380 00:21:01,756 --> 00:21:03,956 Speaker 1: to do it. A dollar a day for a less 381 00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,356 Speaker 1: stinky kitchen sounds like a great idea to me and 382 00:21:06,596 --> 00:21:08,876 Speaker 1: for me like a dollar a day for one less 383 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:12,396 Speaker 1: choice are I'm in? Yes, Although to be clear, you 384 00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:14,796 Speaker 1: still have to take out all your other garbage all 385 00:21:14,796 --> 00:21:16,516 Speaker 1: the time. I mean, I recognize that if food is 386 00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:19,236 Speaker 1: most of your garbage, you take it out less. But still, 387 00:21:19,676 --> 00:21:21,836 Speaker 1: if you know you still got to take out everything else. 388 00:21:22,156 --> 00:21:24,676 Speaker 1: When you take food out of the trash, dream your 389 00:21:24,716 --> 00:21:28,116 Speaker 1: garbage can fills up pretty slowly. Yeah, and it doesn't smell. 390 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:29,716 Speaker 1: So Actually, like for our house, we take out the 391 00:21:29,756 --> 00:21:31,556 Speaker 1: garbage now like every three four days. It's a big 392 00:21:31,556 --> 00:21:34,196 Speaker 1: difference for us we talked about the emotional side, Let's 393 00:21:34,196 --> 00:21:36,716 Speaker 1: talk about the rational side of it. The rational side 394 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:40,036 Speaker 1: is in most cities in the country, you pay per 395 00:21:40,076 --> 00:21:44,916 Speaker 1: month to your waist your waist bill based on the 396 00:21:44,956 --> 00:21:48,396 Speaker 1: size of your trash cart at the curb. So in 397 00:21:48,436 --> 00:21:50,836 Speaker 1: San Francisco, I have a sixty four gallon cart, I 398 00:21:50,876 --> 00:21:52,836 Speaker 1: pay like seventy bucks a month for it. If I 399 00:21:52,956 --> 00:21:56,156 Speaker 1: downsize to a thirty two or a sixteen gallon cart, 400 00:21:56,236 --> 00:21:58,236 Speaker 1: I'm gonna save like twenty or thirty bucks a month. 401 00:21:58,396 --> 00:22:01,236 Speaker 1: And this exists around the country. People have no idea, 402 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:03,316 Speaker 1: and most people are on the big big bins. So 403 00:22:03,476 --> 00:22:07,156 Speaker 1: people are paying by how much trash they put out now. 404 00:22:07,276 --> 00:22:10,476 Speaker 1: And this might, if not pay for itself, pay for 405 00:22:10,556 --> 00:22:13,876 Speaker 1: part of itself, just by people paying less for their 406 00:22:13,956 --> 00:22:17,516 Speaker 1: traditional garbage collection. Exactly. You got it, exactly similar story 407 00:22:17,556 --> 00:22:20,796 Speaker 1: that we had a nest. So yes, you're buying this 408 00:22:20,836 --> 00:22:23,036 Speaker 1: premium thermostat, but over time it's going to help you 409 00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:26,996 Speaker 1: save money by using less energy. It's a very similar analogy. Yes, 410 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:29,116 Speaker 1: I know that in a lot of rural places there 411 00:22:29,236 --> 00:22:31,916 Speaker 1: is not garbage collection, and you have to pay to 412 00:22:31,956 --> 00:22:34,756 Speaker 1: go to the dump, and often you pay by the bag, 413 00:22:34,836 --> 00:22:36,716 Speaker 1: like when I was thinking, who's going to use this 414 00:22:36,756 --> 00:22:38,716 Speaker 1: thing that you're selling? That's what I thought of. I mean, 415 00:22:38,836 --> 00:22:43,636 Speaker 1: is that is that part of your target audience? Absolutely, 416 00:22:43,676 --> 00:22:46,596 Speaker 1: And actually for folks that live in rural areas that 417 00:22:46,636 --> 00:22:50,116 Speaker 1: don't have pick up, they may even often have uses 418 00:22:50,116 --> 00:22:51,716 Speaker 1: for the material themselves and they don't even need to 419 00:22:51,756 --> 00:22:53,276 Speaker 1: send it back to us. If they want to use 420 00:22:53,316 --> 00:22:56,236 Speaker 1: this material themselves, they can absolutely use it themselves, like 421 00:22:56,396 --> 00:22:59,556 Speaker 1: if they have backyard chickens, if they compost and have 422 00:22:59,596 --> 00:23:02,836 Speaker 1: a garden, awesome. Yeah, we think it's really helpful for 423 00:23:02,876 --> 00:23:04,916 Speaker 1: them too. So you're just about to launch, we're talking 424 00:23:05,436 --> 00:23:08,636 Speaker 1: the week before your big public announcement of this. As 425 00:23:08,716 --> 00:23:11,036 Speaker 1: you you know, I'm sure that as a founder you 426 00:23:11,156 --> 00:23:15,116 Speaker 1: have to be a wildly optimistic person at some level, right, 427 00:23:15,116 --> 00:23:16,756 Speaker 1: you have to have some set of hope. But when 428 00:23:16,756 --> 00:23:20,156 Speaker 1: you think about the things that might go wrong next week, 429 00:23:20,276 --> 00:23:22,276 Speaker 1: next month, do you what do you think about? What 430 00:23:22,316 --> 00:23:25,116 Speaker 1: are you worrying about right now? Oh? Man, there's a 431 00:23:25,116 --> 00:23:27,796 Speaker 1: lot actually, and there's probably a list of forty five 432 00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:30,356 Speaker 1: things or fifty things, and I'm worried about these days, 433 00:23:30,356 --> 00:23:33,836 Speaker 1: from the operational to like will the parts get to 434 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:36,876 Speaker 1: the manufacturing facility on time, and are we clear to 435 00:23:36,916 --> 00:23:39,196 Speaker 1: build and one of the things that we don't know 436 00:23:39,556 --> 00:23:44,356 Speaker 1: and are people gonna like it? We've been using it 437 00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:46,516 Speaker 1: for months. I've been using at my house for about 438 00:23:46,516 --> 00:23:48,476 Speaker 1: six months. We've got a couple hundred people I've been 439 00:23:48,596 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 1: feel testing it and we've getten some really good feedback. 440 00:23:51,676 --> 00:23:57,956 Speaker 1: People like it, But like, are people gonna love it? 441 00:23:57,956 --> 00:24:00,676 Speaker 1: It's too soon to answer that question on the show today. 442 00:24:01,036 --> 00:24:03,036 Speaker 1: Neil just came out of stealth mode a few weeks ago. 443 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:07,236 Speaker 1: But if it's any consolation, we do have a garbage 444 00:24:07,276 --> 00:24:15,836 Speaker 1: themed lightning round up in just a minute. That's the 445 00:24:15,916 --> 00:24:18,116 Speaker 1: end of the ads. Now we're going back to the show. 446 00:24:19,116 --> 00:24:21,956 Speaker 1: Let's finish with the Lightning round. Just a bunch of 447 00:24:21,996 --> 00:24:26,996 Speaker 1: fast questions. Fun, fun, fun, indeed, fun is what we're 448 00:24:26,996 --> 00:24:31,356 Speaker 1: going for here. So I understand you're a Star Wars fan, 449 00:24:31,516 --> 00:24:34,476 Speaker 1: and I'm curious of all the Star Wars movies, what's 450 00:24:34,476 --> 00:24:41,076 Speaker 1: your favorite scene? Favorite scene. I'm gonna go with Luke 451 00:24:41,156 --> 00:24:46,556 Speaker 1: Skywalker on hoff in Empire Strikes Back when he's like 452 00:24:46,836 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 1: and Ben, you will go to Yoda my favorite scene 453 00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:53,836 Speaker 1: at all Star Wars. It's just beautifully done. I really 454 00:24:53,836 --> 00:24:56,516 Speaker 1: thought you were going to say the trash compactor. Oh, man, 455 00:24:56,596 --> 00:24:58,876 Speaker 1: that's a good one. I feel like that's the that's 456 00:24:58,956 --> 00:25:01,476 Speaker 1: the mill scene. Man, they're in a trash compactor and 457 00:25:01,516 --> 00:25:04,756 Speaker 1: it's even feeding the weird animal. Oh my god, there's 458 00:25:04,756 --> 00:25:08,476 Speaker 1: a weird animal in there. Yeah, that's hilarious. Let's talk 459 00:25:08,516 --> 00:25:11,436 Speaker 1: about garbage a little bit. What is the smelliest thing 460 00:25:11,996 --> 00:25:15,876 Speaker 1: that people put into the garbage in a typical household. Oh, 461 00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:18,516 Speaker 1: we've actually created a stink bomb for the office. It's 462 00:25:18,596 --> 00:25:23,196 Speaker 1: kind of a mix of garlic, shrimp, kimchi. It is 463 00:25:23,236 --> 00:25:26,356 Speaker 1: some stinky stuff. Like one of the things our engineers 464 00:25:26,356 --> 00:25:30,396 Speaker 1: have challenged us with is they put our bins in 465 00:25:30,436 --> 00:25:33,796 Speaker 1: our conference rooms in the office and they load them 466 00:25:33,836 --> 00:25:36,276 Speaker 1: up with these stink bomb recipes and just let them 467 00:25:36,356 --> 00:25:39,156 Speaker 1: run and we'll be in the room having our meetings, 468 00:25:39,156 --> 00:25:42,116 Speaker 1: doing our discussions and not smelling anything. And that is 469 00:25:42,156 --> 00:25:46,676 Speaker 1: the bar like stink bomb recipe, no smell. Who's your 470 00:25:46,716 --> 00:25:52,796 Speaker 1: favorite Backstreet Boy? Ooh? AJ? And the reason why is 471 00:25:52,796 --> 00:25:55,356 Speaker 1: he's carrying the team now Like AJ is really like 472 00:25:55,396 --> 00:26:00,236 Speaker 1: coming to his own and actually like twenty twenties Backstreet 473 00:26:00,236 --> 00:26:03,916 Speaker 1: Boys is unbelievable. Like, thank you, AJ. We appreciate you. 474 00:26:04,716 --> 00:26:06,556 Speaker 1: If you weren't working on food, what would you be 475 00:26:06,596 --> 00:26:12,796 Speaker 1: working on poop? Poop? Maybe diapers? Like, what are all 476 00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:17,636 Speaker 1: these other stinky garbage ee things in the house? Methane bomb? 477 00:26:18,276 --> 00:26:23,116 Speaker 1: Super gross? Does it have to be? So you've done thermostats, 478 00:26:23,116 --> 00:26:26,156 Speaker 1: you're doing garbage. You think you might do diapers next? Look, 479 00:26:26,276 --> 00:26:29,596 Speaker 1: poop is not out of the question. Strong, what's the 480 00:26:29,596 --> 00:26:33,636 Speaker 1: most surprising thing you've learned about garbage? I think I'm 481 00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:36,796 Speaker 1: still surprised by how much of the economy is to 482 00:26:36,956 --> 00:26:39,196 Speaker 1: handle and dispose of the stuff that we're done with. 483 00:26:40,316 --> 00:26:43,356 Speaker 1: It's like a multi hundred billion dollar industry that we've 484 00:26:44,116 --> 00:26:47,076 Speaker 1: effectively taken for granted. It doesn't have to exist and 485 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:50,076 Speaker 1: it's really really really big. Well, that's good for you 486 00:26:50,156 --> 00:26:53,556 Speaker 1: as a founder. If we can have some efficiency gains, 487 00:26:54,036 --> 00:26:56,716 Speaker 1: the money is there, we can get some of the 488 00:26:56,716 --> 00:26:59,236 Speaker 1: how money to make our business work. Yeah, that's actually 489 00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:03,116 Speaker 1: one of our theses behind the company is we're building 490 00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:06,916 Speaker 1: something new, but people pay for waste today. We pay 491 00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:09,396 Speaker 1: a lot for waste today. So yes, Like, is there 492 00:27:09,396 --> 00:27:11,796 Speaker 1: a better way of doing things that we can shift 493 00:27:11,836 --> 00:27:16,276 Speaker 1: over time? Absolutely anything else we should talk about. I 494 00:27:16,316 --> 00:27:21,156 Speaker 1: think stepping back like, this is attractable problem. And as 495 00:27:21,156 --> 00:27:24,796 Speaker 1: someone who's spent twenty plus years looking at climate solutions 496 00:27:24,796 --> 00:27:27,756 Speaker 1: and the things we gotta do, there's some areas that 497 00:27:27,796 --> 00:27:29,756 Speaker 1: are really hard and we have to invent, like nuclear 498 00:27:29,796 --> 00:27:34,196 Speaker 1: fusion to solve this is attractable, solvable problem. We have 499 00:27:34,276 --> 00:27:38,436 Speaker 1: to keep food out of landfill, and like that is solvable, 500 00:27:38,476 --> 00:27:40,756 Speaker 1: like we could do that. So the taglight is solving 501 00:27:40,796 --> 00:27:45,236 Speaker 1: food waste easier than nuclear fusion, Easier than nuclear fusion. 502 00:27:49,076 --> 00:27:52,276 Speaker 1: Matt Rogers is the co founder and CEO of NIL. 503 00:27:53,036 --> 00:27:56,196 Speaker 1: Today's show was produced by Edith Russolo. It was edited 504 00:27:56,196 --> 00:28:00,356 Speaker 1: by Sarah Knicks and Robert Smith and engineered by Amanda 505 00:28:00,516 --> 00:28:03,716 Speaker 1: k Loong. I'm Jacob Goldstein. You can find me on 506 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:06,836 Speaker 1: Twitter at Jacob Goldstein, or you can email us at 507 00:28:06,956 --> 00:28:11,116 Speaker 1: problem at Cushkin dot We'll be back next week with 508 00:28:11,196 --> 00:28:18,396 Speaker 1: another episode of What's Your Problem