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Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not

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Speaker 1: thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the

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Speaker 1: dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day

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Speaker 2: And friends and families walking riding on passing the roads

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Speaker 2: every day. Remember they're real people with loved ones who

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Speaker 2: need them to get home safely. Protect our cyclists and

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Speaker 2: pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely. California from the

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Speaker 2: California Office of Traffic Safety and caltrans.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Daniel, do you ever wish he had a superpower.

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Speaker 1: All the time? I wish I had lots of superpowers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know, science has actually provided us with some real,

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Speaker 1: honest to God powers that our ancestors might have thought

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Speaker 1: were superpowers. Jetpacks not quite yet, but you know, we

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Speaker 1: can do some pretty amazing stuff teleportation. Well, listen to

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Speaker 1: the podcast episode about teleportation before you decide, Well, we

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Speaker 1: can do some pretty amazing stuff, stuff that would have

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Speaker 1: limited to deities a thousand years ago. You know, things

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Speaker 1: like harnessing the power of the sun.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean, like we can create the sun

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Speaker 3: here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, we can create miniature suns here on Earth.

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Speaker 1: Not recommended to do and you're at home, kitchen, but

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Speaker 1: it's something science is capable of. Hi. I'm Jorge and

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe our podcast

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Speaker 3: about the universe.

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Speaker 1: And everything in it and everyone in it, and even

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Speaker 1: about aliens if they are in it. Yeah, even about

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Speaker 1: sons sons Sun and sons s n We explain it

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Speaker 1: all today in the program. We are actually talking about

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Speaker 1: harnessing the power of the sun. Science has distilled the

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Speaker 1: thing that happens inside the sun, the energy release, and

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Speaker 1: made it available for us.

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Speaker 3: Here on earth with explosive results.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So if you are a dictator of your

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Speaker 1: own little country looking to become a nuclear superpower, this

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Speaker 1: is the podcast for you.

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Speaker 3: Do they ever going to talk about nuclear weapons and

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Speaker 3: specifically the nuclear bomb? How does it work?

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Speaker 1: How do you build one in your garage? Should you

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Speaker 1: build one in your garage? The answer is no, The

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Speaker 1: answer is definitely no, one should you? But could you?

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Speaker 3: Maybe this podcast is about the science not the ethics.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll touch on both actually, because science is

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Speaker 1: never free of ethics. It's always a complex mixtuer.

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Speaker 3: So nuclear bombs is something that people obviously were very

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Speaker 3: surprised to learn about in the mid forties, and then

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Speaker 3: there was a huge concern with the Cold War up

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Speaker 3: until the eighties and nineties, but then it sort of

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Speaker 3: quite it down until a little bit recently. Right, there's

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Speaker 3: been a lot of talk about rogue nations and the

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Speaker 3: threat of nuclear bombs and nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you ask the Union of Concerned Scientists, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they've quiet it down at all. There's been

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Speaker 1: a pretty consistent fear that we would destroy ourselves and

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Speaker 1: kill everybody on it basically since we've got the power

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Speaker 1: to do so. Yeah, I mean we had in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: the USSR and the USA had enormous nuclear stockpile, tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other with

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Speaker 1: hair triggers. And these days we have fewer, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the number of thousands instead of tens of thousands,

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Speaker 1: But still there's plenty of power there to destroy each

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Speaker 1: other very easily, are you sing?

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Speaker 3: Scientists have a hard time relaxing in general.

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Speaker 1: If you know, the more you know about the state

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Speaker 1: of nuclear weapons, the harder it is to really relax. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but you know, your point is taken. The big powers

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Speaker 1: have not yet blown each other up, and we are

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Speaker 1: worried these days about smaller powers, nuclear powers and terrorists

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Speaker 1: at North Korea and all these folks who were developing

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Speaker 1: these capabilities.

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Speaker 3: So it kind of made us wonder, like, how many

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Speaker 3: people out there actually know how a nuclear bomb works,

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Speaker 3: and how do you make one?

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Speaker 1: And would it be a bad idea to explain to

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Speaker 1: everybody exactly how to build a nuclear bomb?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Are we going to get arrested for this podcast

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Speaker 3: or put on some kind of watch list surveillance?

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Speaker 1: That's right? And they say, we are not telling that

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Speaker 1: everybody anything they wouldn't know in a physics class anyway. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: if we are going to get arrested for treason, you

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Speaker 1: got to lock up every professor out.

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Speaker 3: There, yes, which I bet some people would.

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Speaker 1: Like to do. That's right. That was not a suggestion.

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Speaker 3: So we went out there and asked people, do you

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Speaker 3: know how a nuclear bomb works?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So think for a moment, how much do you

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Speaker 1: know about a nuclear weapon? How does it actually work?

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Speaker 1: If you had to? Could you build one in your garage?

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Speaker 3: Here's what people had to say, Not.

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Speaker 4: Sure, Honestly, I do not have no idea at all.

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Speaker 3: Guess by smashing together particles cool? I'd only say China's

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Speaker 3: but I don't know how to say it in the Engish,

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Speaker 3: right Chinese?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: Olivia? So there is a two kinds of nuclear bone ride?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Item bind? What was that called hydrateable? Yeah? So it's

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Speaker 3: why is vision, Yeah, why is yeah? Yeah, Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: that's interesting. I feel like not a lot of people

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Speaker 3: know how nuclear bomb works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Half the people had no idea, and the other

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Speaker 1: half had some idea that it was something about the

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Speaker 1: power of the atom. I like the guy who only

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Speaker 1: knew the words in Chinese, he was so excited to

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Speaker 1: tell me what he knew that. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell me in Chinese, that's fine. He definitely knew something

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Speaker 1: about the topic. Yeah, but yeah, people generally either didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything or they knew that had something to do

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Speaker 1: with the atom, and they're right. Essentially, the way a

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Speaker 1: nuclear bomb works is that it releases energy stored inside

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Speaker 1: the atom or lots of atoms really really rapidly.

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Speaker 3: M That's what it's called the atomic bomb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The early versions are called atomic bombs. So there's

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Speaker 1: sort of two categories of nuclear weapons. There's the early

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Speaker 1: ones that use fission where you split an atom apart.

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Speaker 1: Those are called atomic bombs, and the later ones, that

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Speaker 1: are called hydrogen bombs or h bombs, Those use fusion

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Speaker 1: where you squeeze nuclei together. And we'll get into the

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Speaker 1: nitty gritty of exactly all how that works and why

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. So there are atomic bombs and hydrogen bombs,

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Speaker 1: both nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I see, and they weren't using different methods. One

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Speaker 3: of them is fizzy, the other one is fuzzy.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. One of them split

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Speaker 1: the atom opened, and the other one squeezes atoms together. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and it's sort of surprising, you might be thinking. Hold on,

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Speaker 1: if splitting the atoms open releases energy, how come the

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Speaker 1: opposite thing of fusing them together also releases energy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, before we get into the technical details, you

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Speaker 3: mentioned you had some personal connection to the Manhattan Project

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Speaker 3: and the nuclear industry here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that. Yeah, it's not that

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Speaker 1: I've ever built a nuclear bomb myself. No, certainly not you.

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Speaker 3: It's not doctor Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: I'm not Doctor Manhattan. But I did grow up in

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Speaker 1: Los Alamos, New Mexico, the home of the Manhattan Project,

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Speaker 1: where in the forties all these scientists got together to

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Speaker 1: crack this mystery. And you know, the history of this

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Speaker 1: is fascinating. It was in the late thirties that people

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Speaker 1: figured out, oh, you can split the atom and release

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Speaker 1: some huge amounts of energy, much more energy than is

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Speaker 1: released when you blow up dynamite or burn coal or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. And so immediately, even before the world

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Speaker 1: was at war, people realized this is the technology for

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Speaker 1: a new weapon. This could be a devastating new superweapon.

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Speaker 1: And so, of course most people know the story. The

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Speaker 1: US government gathered people together in the middle of nowhere

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico. They chose Los Almos because it's a

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Speaker 1: place basically no one would go on purpose, and so

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Speaker 1: no one would run into it.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't because if they made a mistake, not that

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Speaker 3: many people would would die in an accident.

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Speaker 1: Uh, you know what, that's probably an aspect to it

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Speaker 1: also being remote out in the middle of the desert.

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Speaker 1: But as a high schooler, you know, it wasn't much

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Speaker 1: consolation to know that you were living in a place

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Speaker 1: that the government thought was going to be super boring

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Speaker 1: and no one would want to go to. And they

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Speaker 1: were pretty much right. There's not a whole lot to

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Speaker 1: do in Los Alamos.

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Speaker 3: Ben. In fact, your parents worked for the Los Alamos

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Speaker 3: National Laboratory, right, They worked on nuclear engineering and physics.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Both of my parents worked for Los Alamos

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Speaker 1: Labs where the bombs were developed. What they work on.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you, not because I'm being secretive about it,

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Speaker 1: but because I don't know. Both of them had Q clearances.

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Speaker 3: They never told you.

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Speaker 1: No, I never visited their offices. I never talked to

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Speaker 1: them in any detail about their work. I never heard

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Speaker 1: about it because it was all behind the clearance fence,

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Speaker 1: the security fence. It was all top secret.

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Speaker 3: Wow, they saw you as a threat even then, that's right.

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Speaker 1: They had to go through liborate procedures to make sure

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Speaker 1: they were trustworthy, were not going to be spies for

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Speaker 1: some enemnation or something like that or blackmailable.

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Speaker 3: So like at the dinner table, what would you guys

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Speaker 3: talk about, like how is work? I can't tell you.

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Speaker 3: Son't ask me.

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Speaker 1: We learned pretty quickly not to ask those questions exactly.

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Speaker 1: And there was no you know, take your son to

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Speaker 1: work day or this kind of stuff. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because when I was a kid, I learned

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Speaker 1: about the history of Los Alamos, and in Los Amos,

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Speaker 1: they teach you pride. They teach you this is the

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Speaker 1: place the bomb was developed, this is the location of

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Speaker 1: a great scientific discovery, and not just that, but that

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Speaker 1: we should feel pride. National pride and having developed something

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Speaker 1: which won the war. Right, people in this town, scientists

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Speaker 1: and where your parents work, they won the war with

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Speaker 1: their brains. And so this sort of like pride was

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Speaker 1: really deeply woven into the curriculum and life in Los Almos.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like propaganda.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, it's exactly like propaganda, because it is propaganda. And

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Speaker 1: it was only later that I heard about the controversy,

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Speaker 1: like should we have dropped those bombs and killed hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands of civilians? Wow? You know that turns out

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Speaker 1: to be quite a complex moral question, you know. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a scientist working on these weapons, should you

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Speaker 1: be should you be developing these weapons and putting them

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Speaker 1: in the hands of politicians who could use them to

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Speaker 1: kill women and children?

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Speaker 3: Did you ever talk to your dad about that, like

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Speaker 3: if he ever felt any feelings like that or had

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Speaker 3: any thoughts about that.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's interesting is I didn't ask them about

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Speaker 1: it until I was in my twenties, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a decade after we lived in Los Almos, and I

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Speaker 1: asked him about it, and he said, you're the first

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Speaker 1: person to ask me that question. Wow, And that was

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Speaker 1: sort of shocking. Also, like people almost almost don't discuss

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Speaker 1: it very much. His friends didn't ask him, his family,

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Speaker 1: his old family didn't ask him. I was a physics student.

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Speaker 1: I knew all about this and never asked him until

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Speaker 1: it finally occurred to me.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so I asked him, and he, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he's thought about it, he's balanced these things, and

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Speaker 1: he thought that the nation needed defending, and there are

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Speaker 1: other people out there developing nuclear weapons, and that we

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Speaker 1: needed to have our arsenal ready and needed to be

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Speaker 1: a tip top shape, and we needed to have the

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Speaker 1: same guns as the enemy had. And you know, this

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Speaker 1: was in the eighties and nineties, and so the Cold

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Speaker 1: War was a very recent memory, and it was not

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Speaker 1: ridiculous to think that that Russia could launch nuclear weapons

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Speaker 1: against us. So I think he felt some sort of

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Speaker 1: pride that he was helping the national cause. Wow.

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Speaker 3: So, like, what was your high school mascot in your school?

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Speaker 1: The Adamy radiation that the fallout.

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Speaker 3: Right, Robbie, the radioactive isotope.

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Speaker 1: No, No, it was nothing so exciting. We lived in

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Speaker 1: the top of a hill that's almost the top of

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Speaker 1: a mountain, So our high school mascot is the Hilltoppers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not terribly exciting, But my reaction to this moral quandary

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Speaker 1: was totally different. I didn't want to have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with it, and so when I had to choose

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Speaker 1: a field of physics to study, I chose something very

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Speaker 1: far away from any practical applications, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: Higgs boson and dark matter and particle physics. And so

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Speaker 1: was a selling point to me that none of my

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Speaker 1: research could ever have any practical, immediate practical application and

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Speaker 1: therefore probably not be used to kill any babies. And

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Speaker 1: you know that helps me sleep at night, not killing

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Speaker 1: babies for my work.

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Speaker 3: Just avoid all responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you almost could say I'm a cartoonist, right, have

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Speaker 1: any of your cartoons ever killed any babies?

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Speaker 3: Not that I know of.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you should look into that whoorhe jeez, and should

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Speaker 1: have a more definitive answer to that question.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's a great recruiting of audio for physicists,

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Speaker 3: you know, looking to avoid responsibility, don't want any think

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Speaker 3: they do with the real world, like the particle physics.

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Speaker 1: Don't like killing babies. Go into particle physics. We have

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Speaker 1: killed zero babies to date.

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Speaker 3: So you're you're tied to sort of the history of

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Speaker 3: nuclear energy in this country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, my parents were supported by

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Speaker 1: the Department of Energy, and now actually the Department of

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Speaker 1: Energy supports my research. So I've basically been supported by

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Speaker 1: the Department of Energy directly or indirectly since I was ten. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So I'm pretty totally closely tied into what I can say.

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Speaker 1: I'm completely morally insulated from it. I mean, I ate

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Speaker 1: food which was paid for by the programs which funded

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons development, et cetera, et cetera. So my hands

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Speaker 1: are not clean. Yeah. So I feel this personal connection

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Speaker 1: and I used to feel this pride and now I feel,

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Speaker 1: you know, not shame. But it's definitely more complicated, definitely

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Speaker 1: not happy. When I imagine all those people in Hiroshima

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Speaker 1: and Nagasaki, I'm going about their day and then being

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Speaker 1: suddenly destroyed by nuclear bombs.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely complicated how these bombs work. But before we

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Speaker 3: get into it, let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 3: All right, so let's talk about how exactly a nuclear

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Speaker 3: bomb works. So you said there's two kinds. Actually there

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Speaker 3: is fusion hmm, and there is fission bombs. So that's

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Speaker 3: two different kinds of nuclear bombs. How do they work?

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Speaker 1: That's right? And so if you are the director of

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Speaker 1: a rogue nation's nuclear weapons program, this is where you're

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Speaker 1: gonna want to start taking notes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I like, how do you choose which one?

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating because a fusion bomb actually requires a fission

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Speaker 1: bomb to ignite it. Yeah, but we'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: in a minute. So you should start with if you're

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Speaker 1: developing a new technology, you start with fission because it's easier,

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Speaker 1: although fusion is much more powerful.

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Speaker 3: So fission is breaking the nucleus of an atom and

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Speaker 3: fusion is putting together the nucleus of an atom. That's

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Speaker 3: the difference, right, That's right. Fusion is fusing together a nucleus,

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Speaker 3: and fission is breaking it.

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Speaker 1: Apart exactly, fizzing it or fissiling it or physicisting it

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Speaker 1: or whatever the verb is, fizzing or fission fizzing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you. But a nuclear bomb works essentially the same

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Speaker 1: way as another bomb, in that its goal is released

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Speaker 1: a lot of energy. Right, So you have to find

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Speaker 1: some stored energy and release it. And you can do

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Speaker 1: that in dynamite where this stored chemical energy or something

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Speaker 1: you know, oil where this stored stored energy in the

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Speaker 1: gasoline or whatever. But nuclear energy is much more powerful

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Speaker 1: because it has a lot more energy stored in it.

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Speaker 3: Because that's all a bomb is. It's just the release

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Speaker 3: of a lot of energy at the same time in

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Speaker 3: a small space.

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Speaker 1: Right. Exactly, anything you use for power you can also

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Speaker 1: turn into a bomb. Just release that energy really really quickly. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can slowly burn the gasoline in your car, or

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Speaker 1: you can put it in a vodka bottle and set

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Speaker 1: it on fire like a Molotov cocktail. It's the same process.

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Speaker 1: It just happens more rapidly. And if you release all

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Speaker 1: that energy really quickly, then it creates a shock wave, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's what's destructive, is creating all this energy release

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Speaker 1: at once creates this shockwave of heat and air, and

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Speaker 1: that's what blasts things apart. I see.

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Speaker 3: So, like, the batteries in my phone have a lot

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Speaker 3: of energy stored into it, but there's no reaction that

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Speaker 3: will cause it to be released all quickly at the

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Speaker 3: same time, exactly unless you have the galaxy node seven,

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Speaker 3: which if you have it, please please take it back in.

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Speaker 1: Right, But as far as I'm aware, there's no nuclear

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Speaker 1: bomb app that which will set your phone on fire

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Speaker 1: or anything. So where does that energy come from? And

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Speaker 1: so our interviewees were correct, and that energy comes from

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Speaker 1: the atom itself. That is, if you take uranium, example,

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Speaker 1: and you split it in half, energy is released. And

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Speaker 1: so that's the basic idea. And you might wonder, well

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Speaker 1: why is energy released? Right, Well, so uranium breaks into

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Speaker 1: two other things, krypton and barium, and so those two

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Speaker 1: things are released. And the reason energy is released is

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Speaker 1: because there's more energy stored in uranium than in the

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Speaker 1: sum of krypton and barium, and so when you break

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Speaker 1: it into crypton and barium, there's extra energy left over.

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Speaker 3: But it's kind of weird to grasp because if I

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Speaker 3: take a stick of wood and I split it in half,

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Speaker 3: I don't get energy released.

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Speaker 1: That's right. But imagine you had a stick of wood

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Speaker 1: that was in two pieces and it was held together

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Speaker 1: by a spring. Oh. Ok Then there's stored energy in

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Speaker 1: that configuration, and when you break it, that's released.

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Speaker 3: The spring will sprung out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll sprung out, and it'll push the two things apart.

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Speaker 1: For example. So if there's stored energy in the configuration

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Speaker 1: and you break it, then that energy is released. And

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Speaker 1: so that's what happens when you break a uranium atom.

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Speaker 1: There's energy stored in the arrangement, right, and then energy is.

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Speaker 3: Released, meaning and that's what it does. It that energy

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Speaker 3: that's stored then pushes the two pieces apart really fast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it actually sends out neutrons. You get two

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Speaker 1: other smaller atoms and a bunch of neutrons which fly out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And the neutrons were actually part of the original nucleus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, part of the uranium nucleus. So you got

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Speaker 1: to start with something which can break into two smaller

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Speaker 1: pieces and release energy. That's the goal if you want

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Speaker 1: to do fission. Okay, and uranium is great for that.

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Speaker 1: There are other things that can do it also, plutonium, amerisium,

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Speaker 1: other ones, but uranium is the one which works best.

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Speaker 3: Okay, why is it good for? Why is uranium good?

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Speaker 3: What's special about uranium?

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Speaker 1: Well, it just so happens that there's an isotope of uranium,

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Speaker 1: uranium two thirty five, which is really unstable, and so

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Speaker 1: it's easier to get it too. I'm looking for that

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Speaker 1: verb again, fizz fizsile vision eate split fission eight split,

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Speaker 1: thank you. It's easier to get uranium two thirty five

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Speaker 1: to split than uranium two thirty eight or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Each is like it different, breaking apart itself, so it's

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Speaker 3: easy to make it split up.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, it's less stable exactly, right. Yeah, and so that's fission.

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Speaker 3: That's why you always hear uranium and uranium cakes and

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Speaker 3: uranium enrichment.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, uranium enrichment because the kind of uranium that you

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Speaker 1: normally find in the ground a uranium mine is not

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00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: uranium two thirty five is not the kind we want

437
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 1: for nuclear weapons. That kind is pretty rare. It's you know,

438
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: one in a I don't know the number, but one

439
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: in a zillion atoms of uranium that you find in

440
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: the ground is the kind you need for nuclear weapons,

441
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 1: which is why one of the big obstacles to making

442
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon is not knowing how to do it

443
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: because this physics is pretty widely known. But getting the fuel, yeah,

444
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,480
Speaker 1: these that's why, for example, Iran was working on centrifuges

445
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: because they're trying to separate out the different isotopes of

446
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: uranium to get the one that's good for the bomb.

447
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 3: I believe the number is zero point.

448
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: Wow, it's like your Siri or Wikipedia.

449
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, so uranium is about to split and

450
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,479
Speaker 3: has a lot of energy. That's why they use it

451
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 3: for fission bombs.

452
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: That's right. But there's another key element, which is you

453
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: can't just release the energy of one atom. I mean,

454
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: you can do that, but it's not very it's not

455
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,959
Speaker 1: going to be a very good bomb, right, And what

456
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 1: you need is, as we said, is to release a

457
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: lot of energy all at once, and for that you

458
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: need not just one atom to go, but a lot

459
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: of atoms to go.

460
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 4: Ok.

461
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: So for that to happen, you need to create a

462
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: chain reaction.

463
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: So meaning you take a lot of this enriched uranium.

464
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 3: So uranium that has a lot of this you two

465
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 3: thirty five, and you put it onto this one spot

466
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 3: and then you cause a chain reaction. That's the idea

467
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: of a bomb.

468
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly. And so the neutrons that fly out

469
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 1: and carry some of this leftover energy then bump into

470
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: other uranium two thirty five atoms, which then fizzile physic

471
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: physic linked, yes, split and then it goes on and

472
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: on and on, and you get more neutrons and more neutrons,

473
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: and pretty soon you have a huge number of neutrons

474
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: flying out, which create which causes a huge amount of

475
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: atoms to split, all at the same time, and that's

476
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: your explosion right there. In order for that to happen,

477
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: you need to have enough fuel and it needs to

478
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: be dense enough so the neutrons bump into the other atoms.

479
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: So that's called the critical mass. When you have enough

480
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: fuel and a dense enough location, and that's really all

481
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: you need to do to start the bomb off.

482
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: Like a rumor or like a panic in a crowd,

483
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 3: you need enough people jammed together to really cause a

484
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: big panic.

485
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. For your analogy, you need something to trigger

486
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: the other thing. It's like that scene in stand By Me,

487
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, where they're vomiting, or that vomits. The smell

488
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: causes two other people to vomit, which costs four other

489
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: people to vomit pretty soon.

490
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: Everybody, Oh yeah, yeah that movie.

491
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

492
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: But if people were not close together, then you wouldn't

493
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: this reaction wouldn't catch fire, right like, it wouldn't catch on.

494
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: So you need you need a lot of people together,

495
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: a lot of these atoms together to cause this chain

496
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 3: reaction exactly.

497
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: And all you need to do to create a nuclear weapon,

498
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: people might be wanet. How do you start it? Do

499
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: you like have a pile of uranium and you like

500
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: light a match or put a lighter on it or something.

501
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: All you need to do is have enough fuel all

502
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: put together, and one of the atoms inside it will

503
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: be unstable enough to just fall apart on its own

504
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: and that will trigger the chain reaction which leads to

505
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: the explosion. Wow. And so the way the nuclear botob

506
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: actually works is you basically have two subcritical masses, like

507
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: a chunk uranium here and a chunk uranium there. I mean,

508
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: you just slam them together and then it goes off

509
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: and that's it. So for those of you out there

510
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: looking to build a nuclear weapon. All you need to

511
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: do is get enough uranium two thirty five and arrange

512
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: it in two pieces to slam.

513
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: Together in the right concentration.

514
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,959
Speaker 1: In the right concentration, the right purity. Yeah, okay, And

515
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: some of the original designs that were like, well, let's

516
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: make one of the pieces sort of like a cup

517
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: and the other piece sort of like a ball, and

518
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: will just like drop the ball in the cup, and

519
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: that worked.

520
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: Really, so just bringing these two things together will suddenly

521
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 3: cause the reaction to start.

522
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that's all you need to do.

523
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: So separately happens. Why don't they start separately.

524
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: Well, they do start separately, they just don't take off.

525
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: So you have atoms in there decaying all the time,

526
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: but they don't start the chain reaction because it's not density.

527
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 3: It just doesn't catch fire.

528
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to essentially to have these two pieces

529
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: and have them be dense enough to squeeze them a

530
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: little bit. And so what they actually they don't call

531
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: it a ball and a cup. They call it the

532
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: gun assembly because they basically shoot one piece of uranium

533
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: into another and that creates this density that you need

534
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: to have the chain reaction.

535
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 3: So that's a fission bomb that's splitting. That's the one

536
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 3: that splits atoms. There's also one that fuses atoms.

537
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's fascinating to me. It's a totally different

538
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: process and that sticking atoms together can also release energy

539
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: the same way splitting an atom can. Right, that's really counterintuitive. Yeah,

540
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: but the way it works is you take two pieces

541
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: of hydrogen, so the lightest element there is, and you

542
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: stick them together and you get helium. And you don't

543
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: just get helium, you get extra energy left over.

544
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 3: So where did this energy come from?

545
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: The energy comes from the configuration of the helium atom

546
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: versus the configuration of the hydrogen atom. What is helium?

547
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: It's basically just two hydrogen atoms stuck together, right, and

548
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: so you got those protons, you got those neutrons all

549
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: mixed together. It takes more energy to break helium apart

550
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: than it does to break hydrogen atom apart, and so

551
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: when you put the helium together, that energy has to

552
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: get released somewhere. It's like you've put two hygen atoms

553
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: into a hole, right, and that you would need to

554
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: use energy to take them out again. So when you

555
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: put them in that hole, some energy is released. It's

556
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: like you drop them in the hole and the eternal

557
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: lever which generates some electricity or something.

558
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 3: It's kind of like if you're single, you have to

559
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 3: pay a certain amount of taxes, but if you get married,

560
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 3: then you have to pay maybe a little bit less

561
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: of taxes.

562
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly right, exactly right. But that kind of

563
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: marital fusion doesn't usually cause weapons of mass destruction though.

564
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, But it's kind of the same idea. It's like, separately,

565
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: you make a certain amount of money put together, because

566
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: you're the configuration together, you have extra money left over.

567
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it all depends on the configuration of the

568
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: atoms inside. And so it just so happens that helium

569
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: takes more energy to break apart than hydrogen does. And

570
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: so when you build helium out of hydrogen, energy is released.

571
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: And then you could take that energy and put it

572
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: back in to break the helium apart and get your

573
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: hydrogen back. I see. So it makes more sense if

574
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: you think about it the other direction. Take helium, you

575
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 1: need to put energy in to break it into hydrogen.

576
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: I see.

577
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: It's not like uranium, where if you break it it

578
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: releases energy. This time, it costs you energy to break

579
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 3: helium apart.

580
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: That's right. Imagine you know, for example, you have two

581
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: magnets and they're stuck together, right, Obviously it takes energy

582
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: to pull those two magnets apart, right, So that means

583
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: that when the two magnets stick together, energy is released. Okay,

584
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens.

585
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 3: So why is it that some atoms cost energy to

586
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: break apart and others give you energy when you break

587
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: them apart.

588
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: It's all in the nitty gritty details of how quantum

589
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: chromoine as work. This energy of the strong nuclear force.

590
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: Various arrangements of protons and neutrons are a different energy.

591
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: It's really technical. But the fascinating thing is that if

592
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: you fuse atoms together, as long as they're light, anything

593
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: lighter than iron, if you fuse them together and energy

594
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: is released. Anything heavier than iron, If you split it apart,

595
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: energy is released. Okay, So lighter than iron you can fuse.

596
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: Heavier than iron you can split.

597
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: So iron kind of sits in the middle.

598
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: Iron iron, yeah, Iron, ironically ironic iron, And that's why,

599
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: for example, iron is the heaviest thing that's made in

600
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: the sun because the Sun is just a big fusion

601
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: bomb and it's making heavier and heavier elements, but it

602
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: stops at iron because after iron, it.

603
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 3: Didn't cost you energy to make anything bigger. But if

604
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 3: you have something bigger and you break it, then that

605
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: gives you the energy back, and that's that's where the

606
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 3: bomb comes.

607
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: From, exactly exactly. So a hydrogen bomb is like, you

608
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: got to stick these two things together, right, but you

609
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: know hydrogen is positively charged. How do you get two

610
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: hydrogenatoms to stick together. It's not easy. You gotta squeeze

611
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: them really really hard.

612
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: That's why it costs energy. No, that's what dizzy.

613
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: It's complicated because when they're really close together, the strong

614
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: nuclear force takes over, and the process we talked about

615
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 1: the releases energy takes over. When they're a little further apart,

616
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: it's the positive charges that take over. So it's sort

617
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: of like have you ever been to putt putt golf? Right,

618
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: and you have to get the ball into a hole,

619
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: But the hole is at the top of a little hill.

620
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: If you get it just right, boom, it'll stick in

621
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: the hole and stay there. If you miss a little bit,

622
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: the hill will push you away. So getting fusion to

623
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: work is a little bit like that. You've got to

624
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: squeeze the hydrogen outs together. If you get them close enough,

625
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: they will stick and they will release energy. That's like

626
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: the golf ball falling in the hole. If you don't

627
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: get them close enough, they're just going to push each

628
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: other apart.

629
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: So the first atomic bombs that we made were hydrogen

630
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 3: bombs right now.

631
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: The first ones were fission bombs that were uranium.

632
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I see, and then later we made hydrogen bombs.

633
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the only way we could make hydrogen bombs

634
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: was by setting off an atomic bomb. Yeah. So you

635
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: need to surround a bunch of hydrogen with nuclear weapons

636
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: blow those up, right, So you set off a fission bomb,

637
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: which creates enough energy density to squeeze the hydrogen to

638
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: cause it to fuse, which sets off the hydrogen bomb.

639
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 4: Wo.

640
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: So hydrogen bomb is really a two step process. It's first,

641
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: let's do an old fashioned atomic bomb, and that's like

642
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: the ignition switch for the hydrogen bomb, right like yesterday's

643
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: super weapon is today's ignition switch. It's crazy.

644
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: And so both of these types of bombs have are

645
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: more explosive than say, dynamite just because there's more energy

646
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: inside of the atom than in the reaction between atoms.

647
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: That's right. All the other kinds of bombs, dynamite and

648
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, gas bombs, whatever, those are just releasing the

649
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: energy and chemical bonds, which is not a lot compared

650
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: to the energy stored inside the atom. And that's because

651
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: a strong nuclear force is a super duke st and

652
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: it just happens that there's a huge amount of energy

653
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: stored inside the atom.

654
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: Okay, so it sounds sort of simple. So does that

655
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: mean that anyone can make a nuclear bomb.

656
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: It's tricky. You need to get the materials right. Even

657
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: for a hydrogen bomb, which just requires hydrogen, you need

658
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: to create fusion, which means creating a fission explosion. So

659
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: basically the gatekeeper for creating nuclear weapons is getting the

660
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: nuclear fuel. These days, we rely on the fact that

661
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: uranium is hard to find. You have to mine it

662
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: and then you have to enrich it. And so basically,

663
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: if you want to build a nuclear weapon, then you

664
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: have to get enough uranium two thirty five. After that,

665
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: it's not too complicated. Wow, well let's get into it.

666
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. When you pop

667
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth or enjoy a

668
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: rich spoonful of Greek yogurt. You're probably not thinking about

669
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the environmental impact of each and every bite, but the

670
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy has set

671
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: themselves some ambitious sustain ability goals, including being greenhouse gas

672
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working hard

673
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve

674
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

675
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

676
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

677
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

678
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

679
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

680
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

681
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

682
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

683
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

684
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

685
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: us dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

686
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families, walking, riding on passing

687
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

688
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

689
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. Go safely California

690
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

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704
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705
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: Terms apply well.

706
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: What prevents just anyone from building a bomb in their backyard.

707
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: Not a whole lot. If you can get your hands

708
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: on the fuel, you know, if you have enough uranium

709
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: time thirty five or plutonium or some other material which

710
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: is good at splitting, then you can build a nuclear bomb.

711
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: It's not too complicated. There's schematics out there if you're

712
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: really into engineering, really, but if you want to Yeah,

713
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: that part is not secret. It used to be. I

714
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: mean in the fifties, this level of information would get

715
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: you thrown in jail or executed for treason. Yeah.

716
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 3: Probably broadcasting a podcast about how to make one would

717
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 3: probably get you arrested too.

718
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: Let's check with legal before we strett this podcast anyway,

719
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: because I'm not so into spending the rest of my

720
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: life in jail. But it's really just the limitation is

721
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: the fuel, which is why countries like Iran and North

722
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: Korea and those folks are building centrifuges, and the way

723
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: to stop them is to try to stop them from

724
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: getting the material. You know. One of my favorite stories

725
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: about geopolitics is the way the Israeli sabotaged the Iranian centrifuges.

726
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: How did they do it?

727
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: They wrote a computer virus which specifically targeted the people

728
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: working at that facility to get them like download it

729
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: and click it and get it to control the century.

730
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: It's pretty slick and it got the centrifuges to spin wrong. WHOA.

731
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 3: So the difficulty in building a bomb isn't getting the

732
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: nuclear materials, because I mean it's kind of a big

733
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: effort not just to mine it, find out where it is,

734
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 3: mine it, and then you have to process it right.

735
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: And so to do that you need a lot of

736
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: infrastructure and a lot of factory and money. And so

737
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: at some point people are going to notice that what

738
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 3: you're doing, right.

739
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to keep that kind of stuff secret.

740
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: There's not that many people in the world who are

741
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: good at it, at filtering nuclear materials.

742
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 3: And that technology, I read is actually what is kept

743
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 3: secret a lot, right, Like the technology actually enrich uranium

744
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: and want to do it and how to handle it.

745
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: That one is not like you can't just find that

746
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:41,959
Speaker 3: on the internet.

747
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: That's right, And if somebody developed a new, cheap, fast,

748
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: easy way to enrich uranium, we would all be in

749
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 1: trouble because that's really the gatekeeper to lots of people

750
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: get nuclear weapons, because you don't need that much. I mean,

751
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: you can get a suitcase size bomb that could blow

752
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: up a major city if you had the nuclear materials.

753
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: If you had to terrifying it's hard to find it

754
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 3: and process it. That's the hopefully the only thing that's

755
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 3: keeping us from going up in a big ball of fire.

756
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: That's right exactly. And so you know, you think about

757
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: the scientists who are working on this kind of stuff,

758
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: and you know, how do they feel about having developed

759
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: this technology? You know, Jay Robert Oppenheimer, the guy who

760
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: led the Manhattan Project, he's famous for having felt both

761
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: ways about this. When he saw the first nuclear bomb

762
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: go off in New Mexico, you know, he said, I

763
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: am become death, the destroyer of worlds. That's pretty serious stuff, right.

764
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: I've never created something so dangerous, but I would wonder

765
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: about how I would sleep at night if I created

766
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: a super weapon.

767
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: I had to write an article once about nuclear proliferation

768
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: and what keeps countries from making these bombs and what's

769
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: the world order that kind of prevents all this from happening.

770
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: And what's kind of interesting is that you can take

771
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 3: uranium and you start to enrich it, and if you

772
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: reach a certain point then that you can use that

773
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: uranium for good, Like if it reaches about I think

774
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: it's something like I'm when I say five to seven

775
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: percent of the uranium two thirty five in it, then

776
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: that's the stuff you can use for actually good purposes.

777
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: You mean nuclear power, like generating.

778
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 3: Electricity, generating electricity, or medical equipment. But if you leave

779
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: the machine on longer, if you keep enriching it, then

780
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 3: you get to like ninety percent, and that's the stuff

781
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 3: you can use for weapons. So it's a really tricky

782
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: balance of like letting people use and make uranium for

783
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 3: good stuff, but then you have to watch out to

784
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: see if they keep going and make it into the

785
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 3: bomb type.

786
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: So it's like that knob on your dryer where you're like,

787
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: how dry do you want your cake? Good for society

788
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: dry or evil? Destructive? Dry?

789
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah?

790
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I always choose maximum dry.

791
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: You always you go for destructive.

792
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. But I like your anecdote because it tells the story.

793
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: You know that not only is nuclear power potentially the

794
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: source of super weapons that will eradicate all life on Earth,

795
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: but also it's a possible source of energy that we need,

796
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: you know, and everybody's familiar with fission as a source

797
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: of nuclear power. And you know, a bomb is releasing

798
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: energy rapidly, but a battery is, you say, is releasing

799
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: energy slowly. So you can also create a chain reaction

800
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: that and control it in a way that doesn't run

801
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: It's not a runaway reaction. Very gradually releases energy. Yeah,

802
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: and so that's what they do in power plants. And

803
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: you know when you hear they have a meltdown, that's

804
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: because the uranium has gotten too hot and its chain

805
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: reaction is started. And that's not what you want. You

806
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: don't want to be blowing up nuclear bombs inside your facility. Yeah,

807
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: and fusion also has tremendous possibilities for the future because

808
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: fusion is much more powerful, huge amount of energy potentially released,

809
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: the source of fuels and all this like weird metal

810
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: you have to dig up in the ground. Uranium, it's

811
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: just hydrogen, which is everywhere. And the best thing is

812
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: that there's no radioactive waste fission as a nuclear power source.

813
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: You get uranium, it turns into this other radioactive crap

814
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: which lasts for ten thousand years, et cetera. What you

815
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: can do with it?

816
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that the cool thing is that

817
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 3: the same reaction that makes this bomb, right, Like, that's

818
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 3: happening in the sun.

819
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: Right now, zillions of times.

820
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like this continual, simmering giant nuclear bomb.

821
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: It's going off constantly.

822
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the whole reason we hear. Like, so this

823
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: same idea, like this chain reaction, it doesn't have to

824
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 3: be this kind of always explosive, you know, destructive thing.

825
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 3: I mean, the Sun is just like it's just there burning,

826
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: continually exploding, and so we could have that on Earth too, right, Like,

827
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: that's the idea behind fusion energy, is that if we

828
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: could create a mini sun basically like a continual mini

829
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: nuclear explosion, then think about all the energy we could

830
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 3: get from that.

831
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: That's right, And that was actually my first science job,

832
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: my first science work ever was in college. I went

833
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: and did an internship at Los Almos and worked on

834
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: their fusion energy program because I thought this would be

835
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: a good application of this kind of research, This would

836
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: be a way to help humanity. And it's true, and

837
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: it's very promising. And as I was saying before, there's

838
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: no radioac to fallout or waste. It just produces helium.

839
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: The problem is that it's hard to do. You know

840
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: there were on it. We could do a whole other

841
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: podcast about how to build a little sun on Earth

842
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: and keep it from turning into a bomb and burning everybody.

843
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: Well, that'd be cool. So if they make it work,

844
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: it will not just give energy for everybody, but everybody

845
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: will get a helium balloon.

846
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: That's right. We'll all talk kind of like this, Yeah, exactly,

847
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: it'd be lots of side benefits. No, seriously, if fusion

848
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 1: becomes feasible and accessible, then we're talking about basically free

849
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: energy because the cost will just drop very very quickly,

850
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: and that would change society. Right. Yeah, if energy is free,

851
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: then almost everything is possible. If energy is free, you

852
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: can make as much drinking water as you like. Right.

853
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: If energy is free, you can build whatever homes you like,

854
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: you can make concrete, you can do all sorts of things.

855
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: So many problems would be solved if you could get

856
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: cheap energy, and fusion is the way to do it.

857
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 1: It's just really technically tricky.

858
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 3: Well, I think the takeaway is that inside of each

859
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: and every atom there's just an enormous amount of energy,

860
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 3: and so that can be either very destructive or very promising.

861
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 3: To make an incredible future.

862
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, and so there are both positive and

863
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: negative potential energies for all the scientific research.

864
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: Well, I hope that through your mind. It few some

865
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 3: ideas in your head together it's split your view of

866
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 3: the world.

867
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: And jokes aside, Please do not try to build a

868
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: nuclear weapon in your garage. It will not end well.

869
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 3: And if you listen to this podcast, be very careful

870
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 3: about what you.

871
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: Google have cod The NSSAY is always listening.

872
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 3: They're listening.

873
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

874
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for joining us. See you

875
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Speaker 3: next time.

876
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Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

877
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line. We'd love to

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Speaker 1: hear from you. You can find us at Facebook, Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and Instagram at Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or

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Speaker 1: email us at Feedback at Danielandhorge dot com. When you

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Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably

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Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact, but the people in

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Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US dairy tackling

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Speaker 1: greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the

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Speaker 2: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. Go

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Speaker 2: Safely California from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

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