Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories done done?
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. In sview podcast, we are here.
Speaker 4: My name is Lisa, my name is Kara. You know
Speaker 4: what we do on this pod. It's SVU EPPS. It's
Speaker 4: real crimes they're based on.
Speaker 1: It's interviews with actors from the show What's going on?
Speaker 1: You are just back from an exciting little trip.
Speaker 2: I was in New Orleans doing shows. Thanks for everyone
Speaker 2: that came out, and then I went on a swamp tour.
Speaker 2: But the funnest thing of all is I was there
Speaker 2: during a jail break. I mean, only four have been apprehended.
Speaker 2: The convicts are free. Kara, do you not even know
Speaker 2: anything about that?
Speaker 1: Now? I don't even know what you're talking about. I
Speaker 1: thought were gonna talk about the gator tour.
Speaker 4: Oh oh, I have to confirm if it's ten or eleven.
Speaker 2: But basically Shawshank style hole through the toilet ten convicts ran.
Speaker 2: The cameras are just them running into the streets and
Speaker 2: during my shows, two were caught, so people's apple watches
Speaker 2: were going off and it was like they were being
Speaker 2: live apprehended. But to go to Bourbon Street is so silly,
Speaker 2: like everyone's like the facial recognition is so strong, especially
Speaker 2: after the car like that terrorist attack.
Speaker 4: Like right, so, but six are still on the LAMB.
Speaker 2: I got a text yesterday updating that a fourth had
Speaker 2: been caught, but they wrote it was too easy, but
Speaker 2: they spelled two with only one zero, so that was
Speaker 2: kind of fun. And I wonder if afterwards they're seeing
Speaker 2: the footage being like fuck. They also someone wrote I'm innocent,
Speaker 2: and then someone crossed it out and wrote we innocent.
Speaker 2: And there's drawings. But yeah, they like climbed out of
Speaker 2: the toilet. They all work together and then scattered and
Speaker 2: out of the toilet. Yeah, there's photos. There's photos. But
Speaker 2: four of them are murderers. I don't know everyone else's charges,
Speaker 2: if they were like violent or non violin or what
Speaker 2: their sentences are, but like four were in for murder.
Speaker 4: But honestly, everyone was cheering.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's because mostly it's podcast listeners,
Speaker 2: but it's like people love of jail break.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, what if there's a way to get
Speaker 4: out of jail.
Speaker 1: You're going if you see a bunch of people going
Speaker 1: out a hole in the jail, if you're following. The
Speaker 1: New York Times calls their escape brazen, which is a
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace word. I loved you. I'm watching a little
Speaker 1: video right now. Oh my god, there's like so many
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't I describe it well that they scattered? Yeah,
Speaker 2: they fucking ran.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh my god. And they're running across a fucking highway.
Speaker 4: They don't give up. Casey's moving the mic, Casey's moving
Speaker 4: the mic.
Speaker 5: Well, Lisa, Lisa, I was gonna ask, have you heard
Speaker 5: about the conspiracy that this is related to the haunted
Speaker 5: Annabelle Doll?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, cause the plantation burned too. Wait, I
Speaker 2: know Annabelle's on tour. I didn't realize. Oh my god.
Speaker 5: They have been touring the haunted Annabelle Doll from the
Speaker 5: Conjuring Verse, The actual, real life haunted Doll has been
Speaker 5: touring through New Orleans and Louisiana. And during that time,
Speaker 5: the jail break happened and a plantation burned down, and
Speaker 5: people are saying it was Annabelle the evil Dolls.
Speaker 4: You gotta get raw Hernandez on the case. It's absolutely Annabelle.
Speaker 2: It is Annabel Roses who fucking told me about this
Speaker 2: annabel tour yes, and was so Antiette. You have to
Speaker 2: text Raws like I, oh my god, annabel is like
Speaker 2: a down bitch. If it's just like you know, escape,
Speaker 2: I mean plantation burning is like pro good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what everybody's saying.
Speaker 5: People are saying now like, oh, bring this million to Jericho.
Speaker 5: Told me all about this. They're like, bring Annabelle to
Speaker 5: Georgia to burn down our plantation. So they're like asking
Speaker 5: for her to like tour around to do good. Ana,
Speaker 5: this is amazing, so we do have a listener. I
Speaker 5: met her after the show.
Speaker 4: Hello.
Speaker 2: She had fun colored hair, like a teal, a teal
Speaker 2: blue green, fun fun gal. But her friend looked very preppy,
Speaker 2: very preppy, very old world money.
Speaker 4: I was like, where'd you go to school? And she
Speaker 4: said North Carolina.
Speaker 1: I go, okay, okay, Like I don't know, it's like
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 2: They didn't look congruent. I don't know if that's the
Speaker 2: right word. That's a triangle. But she was like, started
Speaker 2: to talk about your friend. If you're listening, but she
Speaker 2: she was like the architecture though it's an architectural marvel,
Speaker 2: like it's so sad, and it was just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think it matters.
Speaker 4: I think this.
Speaker 2: I think the symbolic nature of it being built by
Speaker 2: enslaved abuse humans, that this plantation has denied a reality
Speaker 2: of like I don't there's other architecture.
Speaker 4: I don't care. I don't go to the coliseum. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was so I bet there's other stuff and she goes,
Speaker 2: but the history, I go, you should be more concerned
Speaker 2: that they're not teaching the history in schools, like it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter the history of this plantation. And so it
Speaker 2: was just kind of crazy Louisiana as well, because my
Speaker 2: driver to the swamp she was definitely she shit talked
Speaker 2: her way out of a giant tip.
Speaker 4: I like to tip, but.
Speaker 2: She she was not pro the convicts escaping, which is fine,
Speaker 2: which is fine.
Speaker 4: You know, I understand that she was in her seventies.
Speaker 2: But then she started talking about homeless people and I go, hey, baby, girl,
Speaker 2: you're losing you're losing your tip by the moment. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I saw this more like a woman who can't retire,
Speaker 2: So it was like really tough. But she she like
Speaker 2: looked at a homeless person and was like, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be able to do that.
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, I don't. I don't think he's like
Speaker 4: I can't wait to do that. Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just it's like a weird thing to say to me, Like,
Speaker 2: I bet they like the heat and the hot concrete.
Speaker 4: I go, what are you Like? This is weird?
Speaker 2: She goes, they'll come here for the great weather. I go,
Speaker 2: I'm sure people are dying every day on the streets here.
Speaker 2: This is the worst weather I've ever been to. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, weird. I don't know why I harped on that.
Speaker 2: I had a really good time, but there is something
Speaker 2: where like I just don't think i'd hang out with
Speaker 2: people up here that would be like pro the plantation keeping.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just that was just shocked.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like, yeah, it's shocking to hear
Speaker 1: anybody really take a stand for architecture. Like it's just
Speaker 1: like it's really just I guess the last time I
Speaker 1: heard that was when Notre Dome Notre Dame was on fire.
Speaker 1: People were like, oh, it's our architecture. Not so much
Speaker 1: a plantation, yea.
Speaker 2: Because I don't know who built that. I don't know
Speaker 2: about it. I know about the punchback, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've been seeing mocked up Juneteenth T shirts with that
Speaker 1: plantation burning in the background. I hope they I hope
Speaker 1: people have some fun with Canba. Well, it's totally Annabelle.
Speaker 1: It's totally Annabelle.
Speaker 4: And she is yeah, yeah, brazen escape. That is a
Speaker 4: fun word.
Speaker 1: But like Nancy Grace would always be like, did you
Speaker 1: not brazen? Lace take this toddler from his mother, Like
Speaker 1: she would always talk about brazen. So I love brazen,
Speaker 1: But damn girl, I didn't even know about that. I
Speaker 1: just thought we were gonna hear about the swamp tour.
Speaker 1: How was the swamp tour?
Speaker 4: It was really cool it you were on one of
Speaker 4: those votes with the big fans in the back. No,
Speaker 4: we did go fast, but it's more long. It was
Speaker 4: like fifteen of us.
Speaker 2: I would say, like, and it's bench seats, so you
Speaker 2: sit long bench vibes. And we did go really fast
Speaker 2: at times, but then we'd slow down, and you know,
Speaker 2: he was he did say like, this isn't a zoo,
Speaker 2: this is nature, so you'll see what you see. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they the animals know that the boats bring marshmallows. And
Speaker 2: I asked about the marshmallows. I go, why marshmallows? And
Speaker 2: he said, well, they used to feed them hot dogs,
Speaker 2: but they'd get too full and then they would leave.
Speaker 2: And they need the crocs that gators there. It's very specific,
Speaker 2: so they need the gators to come out. So we're excited,
Speaker 2: you know, we're there for the gators. Yeah, so a
Speaker 2: biologist came. So this biologist and everything's a biologist. So
Speaker 2: it's called Doctor Wagner's Honey Island Swamp Tour, and doctor
Speaker 2: Wagner is like a biologist. Like this is made by
Speaker 2: like a science guy who loves nature, you know. And
Speaker 2: I feel bad that I started talking about the driver immediately.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed this tour and she had cool stories.
Speaker 2: I mean, and the ride is fifty five minutes outside
Speaker 2: of New Orleans, so she talks about like all the
Speaker 2: neighborhoods we passed and all the Katrina stuff. Like it's
Speaker 2: really like a historical and ecological tour as well. And
Speaker 2: like this guy on the boat was talking about pirates
Speaker 2: and like fun stuff. But Anyways, the biologists said, marsh
Speaker 2: shmellows give them a boost of energy, but it's it's
Speaker 2: like they like it for that, but they're not going
Speaker 2: to get full, so they'll keep on floating by.
Speaker 4: So it was exciting. It's cool to see that.
Speaker 1: I love a croc oh wait, an alligator excuse me
Speaker 1: on a little sugar a little sugar high like my
Speaker 1: children after ice cream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then like little raccoons come out too, and there
Speaker 2: were really cool birds and I saw, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I saw two turtles jump off a log, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is what life's about. And then there's like little
Speaker 2: I would I guess it's rude to call them shacks,
Speaker 2: but it's like these little homes on this river, yeah,
Speaker 2: you get one for thirty thirty thousand dollars. But the
Speaker 2: gators are cool, the raccoons are cute. Like you checked
Speaker 2: out the real estate, how.
Speaker 1: Did you know they were thirty k well, I told us, yeah, okay.
Speaker 4: It's just homes are thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: He was telling us about the updates and permits because
Speaker 2: when people started asking questions, yeah, like everyone had questions,
Speaker 2: and he's like, the water's not dirty, it's sedimentary rock.
Speaker 2: It's like Philip, you know. It was cool, but the
Speaker 2: gators are definitely small. They were not threatening to look at,
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't as scared as I thought I was
Speaker 2: gonna be. They're really like cute and little, but they
Speaker 2: definitely have the devil in their eyes, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean when they swim by like they don't really
Speaker 2: there's they're soulless creatures.
Speaker 1: For sure, even if they're hot for marshmallows and that's it.
Speaker 1: Rosie got to hold a little baby alligator in Florida
Speaker 1: named Rose, and she was really pumped about that that
Speaker 1: they had almost the same name. But her little mouth
Speaker 1: was like rubber banded shut, so she didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: bite any kids.
Speaker 2: And I saw a snake and I saw one snake,
Speaker 2: and then we saw an eagle's nest built on a
Speaker 2: power line. And since they're like endangered, if the power
Speaker 2: people have to do anything, they have to have biologists
Speaker 2: and he come and wash them so they don't disturb
Speaker 2: the eagle's nest.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like it was cool. I really precious about eagles.
Speaker 1: We're really we're very precious about eagles in this country.
Speaker 2: Really beautiful, but but I just liked being a part
Speaker 2: of an ecosystem. I guess, like it wasn't zoo like,
Speaker 2: and I like kind of just the moments of floating
Speaker 2: into the trees and grass and moss and like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, it felt really cool to see the raccoons,
Speaker 2: see the croc, see the gator, see the gator.
Speaker 4: You know, like they're just.
Speaker 1: Living then, just be in nature, because like a zoo
Speaker 1: is great, but yeah, we're they're also selling hot cotton candy.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like not exactly the same experience. And
Speaker 1: there's also they're always protesting at the zoo and it
Speaker 1: makes me feel better.
Speaker 4: Than going in there. At the La Zoo.
Speaker 1: They are but apparently they're getting rid of the elephants
Speaker 1: at the zoo, and I feel like that might have
Speaker 1: been what they're getting rid of the elephants at the
Speaker 1: La Zoo.
Speaker 2: I feel like elephants I can agree with, like elephants,
Speaker 2: orcas off.
Speaker 1: There's certain animals. I'm like, yeah, like stop it. I
Speaker 1: forgot what they're with them. They maybe moving them to
Speaker 1: San Diego or something. But they're moving these these elephants
Speaker 1: out of the LA Zoo, and I feel like that
Speaker 1: was what people were protesting about. So maybe the protesters won.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I wanted to give a movie review.
Speaker 4: All right, I'm ready you see? Are you ready for
Speaker 4: my movie review?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 4: No ideers? Jared said. He thinks it's too much for me.
Speaker 4: He said, he think, did you see it?
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna find I'm finally in town for a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks and I'm gonna do like a solo Sinners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I want to go see Friendship. I really
Speaker 1: want to go see Tim Robinson's movie with Paul Rudd
Speaker 1: called Friendship. I think that looks really fucked up and cool,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to go to the violence. Although
Speaker 1: Sinners is getting to that point where, like like the substance,
Speaker 1: where everyone's talking about it so much that I'm like,
Speaker 1: should I just watch it? But he said he thought
Speaker 1: I would not like the violence. But we watched The Apprentice,
Speaker 1: the movie that Sebastian Stan plays Donald Trump and Jeremy
Speaker 1: Strong plays Roy Kohane, and it was really good. Like,
Speaker 1: I know, nobody wants any extra Donald Trump in their
Speaker 1: life right now, but Sebastian Stan is excellent playing Trump,
Speaker 1: like he is totally He's very good at playing him
Speaker 1: like in the seventies when he was a different person
Speaker 1: or whatever, all the way up to like well maybe
Speaker 1: not maybe actually way earlier than the seventies, maybe like
Speaker 1: the sixties or something like that, when he start well
Speaker 1: his like just not a different person. You don't empathize
Speaker 1: with him or anything or sympathize with him, but you
Speaker 1: he's just not doing this Saturday Night Live like like
Speaker 1: like imitation that we're all used to about Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: Like it's just you see how it grows over time,
Speaker 1: Like he does such a good job, like with how
Speaker 1: at the beginning he's just a fucking greedy businessman, but
Speaker 1: you see how like he gets blown up or even
Speaker 1: when he's going bankrupt and even when he had like
Speaker 1: has all these people, like he's still Roy Cone taught
Speaker 1: him all these principles, which were like always attack, never admit,
Speaker 1: never admit that you're wrong, never admit defeat. Like he
Speaker 1: has these three principles that he tells him, and the
Speaker 1: first one is attack, attack, attack, and like before so
Speaker 1: you meet him before he like meets Roy and uh,
Speaker 1: I just didn't know the story of Roy Kane either,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't know. I mean, obviously it's a biopic,
Speaker 1: so some of it might be bent or whatever. I
Speaker 1: was like, I probably don't want to watch anyth about him,
Speaker 1: but I was really impressed Sebastian Stan, like kind of
Speaker 1: he as good as Jeff Gluley or whatever in Itania,
Speaker 1: but he hasn't really like done anything that I've been like.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that guy and this.
Speaker 1: I was like, he's really good in this, like he's
Speaker 1: really excellent and fuck man, you just kind of watch
Speaker 1: the Creation of the Monster.
Speaker 4: It's fucked up, but I liked it.
Speaker 2: Yes, Sebastian Stan is just someone I refuse to learn,
Speaker 2: Like anytime he's in any of my movie games, I go,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not winning that today because I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't learn another new person, like I'm sorry, I
Speaker 2: will not learn Jeffrey Wright's catalog, Like I just can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has like Sebastian Stan like also to me,
Speaker 1: even I just googled him, there's three fo it was
Speaker 1: of him where I think he looks completely different in
Speaker 1: every photo, Like he just has kind of a malleable face,
Speaker 1: like a Gary Oldman situation where I feel like you
Speaker 1: can just like change the chameleon type face, you know. Wait,
Speaker 1: update from Roz. I go Annabelle bringing chaos to Louisiana.
Speaker 1: She goes, I want her publicist. Annabel's press door is sleighing,
Speaker 1: We're freeing the prisoners, We're burning the plantation.
Speaker 4: Out of course it's Annabelle. I just feel stupid.
Speaker 2: I didn't think about that sooner I doll tour, I
Speaker 2: mean because Roz was like I would never because I
Speaker 2: would never be in the presence of that doll of.
Speaker 1: Annabel So wait, are people buying tickets to just go
Speaker 1: see the doll?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, people. I bet people are traveling. I mean
Speaker 4: people are sick. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Wow, wow, No, I'm sure Sebastian stan is very talented
Speaker 2: and he's obviously a good looking man. It's just like
Speaker 2: my brain is tapped out, like I know, it's just
Speaker 2: not it's not even it's it's all too much. And
Speaker 2: there's a new draggers. Do you haven't watched Love Hotel yet?
Speaker 2: It all you've you've resigned?
Speaker 1: I have it on my DVR, I dvr at it
Speaker 1: and I've got it, but I haven't watched it. I
Speaker 1: have been so crazy lately. I have not watched a
Speaker 1: television show. Last night, I watched two of the new SVUS,
Speaker 1: like of the current season, because I'm trying to catch up.
Speaker 4: And that was as far as I.
Speaker 1: Have been able to get with any personal television in
Speaker 1: the past two weeks.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know what's going on. I just don't
Speaker 4: have time.
Speaker 2: I watched all of Overcompensating, and I would like to say, like,
Speaker 2: Holmes is incredible.
Speaker 1: I have already seen the memes and I am so
Speaker 1: excited to watch over Compensating.
Speaker 4: It's like she just slays them away that this is.
Speaker 1: This is Benito Skinner's comedy that is on Amazon. Guys,
Speaker 1: you should all watch it. It's called Overcompensating. It's got
Speaker 1: Mary Beth Burn Holmes, a bunch of people that are
Speaker 1: super funny. But Holmes is getting like the meme treat
Speaker 1: yeah she is, yeah, like they have like a lot
Speaker 1: of quotable lines. I guess, yeah, but uh.
Speaker 2: Actually it was just like really really fun yeah, and
Speaker 2: it was an easy watch. So I had a good
Speaker 2: time with that. And then like drag Race this time
Speaker 2: flying or standing still.
Speaker 4: Like what I have watched my drag Race.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything, but outside of TV, I'm like,
Speaker 2: am I living?
Speaker 4: Like where am I what am I doing? What have
Speaker 4: I seen? What have I ate?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: What is going on in life? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I literally took my kids to go see The Fox
Speaker 1: on the Hound at Quentin Tarantino's theater the New Beverly
Speaker 1: On over the weekend and was like, I'm not even
Speaker 1: seeing new movies. I'm seeing I'm watching shit from nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven or yeah.
Speaker 2: But when was the last time I watched Fox in
Speaker 2: the Hound, Like, I don't think I've seen that, Like
Speaker 2: I've seen it once in my life, and that's that.
Speaker 4: You know, it's on Disney Plus.
Speaker 1: And I was like controversial opinion, like I know Quentin
Speaker 1: Tarantino's theater, it's my husband's theater. Like everybody's obsessed because
Speaker 1: it's everything's on film. I do believe that there is
Speaker 1: a value to watching things on film live action. When
Speaker 1: you're watching old animation, you're like, this looks better on
Speaker 1: my TV. They've cleaned it up, like on a film,
Speaker 1: there's just a bunch it just looks like the screen
Speaker 1: is dirty. And then it's like a two o'clock Fox
Speaker 1: on the Hound and this one kid like is making
Speaker 1: like a repetitive like banging sound like probably banging on
Speaker 1: his seat and some there were a lot of adults
Speaker 1: at this movie with no children with them, and that's
Speaker 1: totally fine if you want to go see an old
Speaker 1: Disney classic, but it is a two o'clock Fox in
Speaker 1: the Hound, I think you have to be a little
Speaker 1: bit chill. And somebody just went, oh, come on, like
Speaker 1: somebody's just screamed into the darkness that this kid was
Speaker 1: making this noise. And I was like one of those
Speaker 1: moments where I was like, it's not my kid. Thank god,
Speaker 1: it didn't even register for me that theme in mine.
Speaker 4: I would have stopped they did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Kay's seat repetitively is not like discomfort.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like if a kid is showing discomfort
Speaker 2: or excitement, that's different than this bitch is banging Stop
Speaker 2: your kid, Yeah, yeah, stop that little kid.
Speaker 1: You can't be no, Absolutely absolutely I was. I wasn't
Speaker 1: at the Fox and the Houn. I would have hit him.
Speaker 4: I probably would have.
Speaker 1: I probably would have gone up to the mom and gone,
Speaker 1: can you ask him to stop? Rather than screaming angrily
Speaker 1: into the darkness. But I definitely would have said something
Speaker 1: because that's like I didn't hear it like enough, probably
Speaker 1: because I was getting my kids popcorn and doing whatever.
Speaker 1: But uh, I did eventually hear it, and then I
Speaker 1: heard the scream.
Speaker 2: Oh, I will say my flight back from New Orleans
Speaker 2: was delayed for two hours, and we were like sitting
Speaker 2: on the plane and I the pilot. She was like
Speaker 2: the most beautiful pilot I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 4: She was so nice.
Speaker 2: And then she actually walked up the flight to make
Speaker 2: sure everyone heard the announcement and handed out the trading cards.
Speaker 2: And it's one hundred year anniversary of a trading card
Speaker 2: that or seventy or something like that. But I don't
Speaker 2: even I've never had that card. So I also got it.
Speaker 2: What are the trading cards? I didn't a doubt that
Speaker 2: trading cards do.
Speaker 4: Do you know? I'm collecting them? And I have talked
Speaker 4: about it a lot.
Speaker 2: You have, Yes, I talk about it often, to the
Speaker 2: point where I was talking about it with tone Bell
Speaker 2: and I showed him a photo and he goes, so,
Speaker 2: is this where your life's at?
Speaker 4: And I was like, it is. Wait, what's on a
Speaker 4: trading card? What's on one? Show you? I'll show you. Okay,
Speaker 4: Now you feel.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like jog my memory because now I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm actually going crazy. Okay, okay, so each plane,
Speaker 1: I guess I can go grab him. I also have
Speaker 1: an Olympics one too, because they were the official partner,
Speaker 1: so that felt important. But each plane has one, so
Speaker 1: it's like an A one, you know, three whatever, seven
Speaker 1: eighty seven, So each plane has one, and the pilots.
Speaker 4: Have them, and you got to go ask or what Yeah,
Speaker 4: well that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: But she just walked up and I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, and it's one I don't have, and she
Speaker 2: was so incredible, like she was truly I have to
Speaker 2: write an email actually because she was like my favorite.
Speaker 4: Pilot I've ever had. I love.
Speaker 2: Usually I enter the planes and I asked the flight attendant,
Speaker 2: oh can I ask the pilot for a card? And
Speaker 2: then they get excited, and then the pilots get really
Speaker 2: excited and then I ask for one, and then they
Speaker 2: go I think I have one, and then they dig in.
Speaker 4: Their backpacks and like, give me a card.
Speaker 2: And then two times ago a guy goes, well, they're
Speaker 2: five dollars now because people are selling them, and I
Speaker 2: thought he was being k like kidding, but then I
Speaker 2: don't know, but he gave it to me but he
Speaker 2: said that the pilots have to pay for them now,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, there's no fucking way.
Speaker 4: This bitch was really hand in am I.
Speaker 1: I have to be honest, like, I don't think I've
Speaker 1: ever heard about this. Yeah, she's talking about.
Speaker 2: This on the podcast. See I have right because you
Speaker 2: know about this or has this really never happened?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 5: I honestly, I don't have a memory of the cards.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I feel like I always talk about the two, like
Speaker 2: the same things over and over.
Speaker 4: So I'm like shocked. But because I also had a
Speaker 4: moment where I walked.
Speaker 2: And asked a flight attime, I was like, hey, can
Speaker 2: I ask the pilot? And she goes, I'm the pilot
Speaker 2: and I go absolutely, And so it sucks when you
Speaker 2: you know your own biases coming.
Speaker 1: When did this start for you? Because I've been on
Speaker 1: flights with you, I don't remember seeing you.
Speaker 2: I could tell you the exact time it started. It
Speaker 2: was December seventh and I was flying to Cincinnati and
Speaker 2: we were delayed, and so when I got to go
Speaker 2: in the cockpit and take photos and like learn a
Speaker 2: lot and press buttons and stuff, he gave me a
Speaker 2: card and so that started.
Speaker 4: I got it this past December.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so yeah, it's a new thing, and I
Speaker 2: probably have like twelve I would say right now, and
Speaker 2: then summer repeats, but there are holographic and like glittery,
Speaker 2: and they have facts about the plane.
Speaker 1: If someone has a repeat, you just go, oh, no thanks,
Speaker 1: or did you take it?
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 2: That's why I stopped asking so much. And then I
Speaker 2: was so excited. She was just passing them out and
Speaker 2: Hannah it was actually like obviously we were delay two hours,
Speaker 2: so I was annoyed, and then the jet bridge took
Speaker 2: so long. I did have to like go through people
Speaker 2: to pee on the plane again, like it was kind
Speaker 2: of like but it's still an enjoyable flight. So I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to have a middle seat, and I get to
Speaker 2: my row and it's a couple that wanted to sit together,
Speaker 2: so I got to.
Speaker 1: They were playing the game. They were trying the trick.
Speaker 1: I told you about the trick.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it didn't work.
Speaker 2: The stuffed well also in comfort, it's never gonna work
Speaker 2: because people are being upgraded. So that was their plan,
Speaker 2: Like silly, of course I'm going to be in there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was a couple just zonked out because
Speaker 2: I was zonked out on my phone the whole flight.
Speaker 2: It was actually really stupid, but I scrolled for hours.
Speaker 2: I could not put it down. And then the couple
Speaker 2: next thing was Fox News the whole time. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I guess it's like the spectrum of brain rot. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: but anyways, Yeah, I'm getting the trading cards. The pilots
Speaker 2: get really excited that you want one and that you're involved,
Speaker 2: because I heard they all have not this girl, she
Speaker 2: was magic, but they all have God complexes, you know,
Speaker 2: and so and they have to. I mean, your uncle,
Speaker 2: not to talk shit about him, but I'm sure he's
Speaker 2: got an ego, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a pretty great guy, but I would
Speaker 1: like maybe he's friends with your girl, because like he's
Speaker 1: really like just such.
Speaker 2: A home I was eating sandwiches.
Speaker 1: He was like, I never really acts like I mean,
Speaker 1: but I know what you're saying. I think pilots, pilots, surgeons,
Speaker 1: men in those kind of careers think that they are God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to put one flight attendant in a
Speaker 2: shuttle to the hotel. Once told me, she goes they
Speaker 2: all have got complex but she goes. But they need
Speaker 2: that because they're flying us, like we need them to
Speaker 2: think they're superhuman, you know, like that they're a badass
Speaker 2: because all of our lives are in their hands. So
Speaker 2: I guess, like if you're going to be a dick,
Speaker 2: it's fine, Like I don't care, Like attendant, I don't care.
Speaker 1: And I guess if you're gonna like take my heart
Speaker 1: out and put in a new one, sure you can
Speaker 1: be God.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, like they're going to be a surgeon.
Speaker 2: I don't need you to be a well human being,
Speaker 2: like get up in me and cut things out, not
Speaker 2: on what I hope I never have to do surgery.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're watching new New Drag Race right or you haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't yet. How many episodes are we in Jesus,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Time is weird.
Speaker 2: Maybe three, Like we're about to made a new crop,
Speaker 2: you know, because they're doing the brackets. But Dasia went
Speaker 2: to Mexico. I'm pretty sure is Mexico. But she went
Speaker 2: and had weight loss surgery and ended up being a
Speaker 2: giant disaster.
Speaker 4: She fully regrets it.
Speaker 2: She was like ill for weeks at a time, like
Speaker 2: her body did not react to it, and it was
Speaker 2: just like a nightmare. Oh no, it's like a yeah,
Speaker 2: she's like I wish I had never done this. I
Speaker 2: mean she looks great, She's always looked great. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess I almost died. Yeah, almost died. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know everyone's going, but she probably thought, like
Speaker 1: everyone's going to Mexico to do this. Everyone's going to
Speaker 1: Turkey to get their teeth done, and people are going.
Speaker 4: To places to get their hair plug.
Speaker 2: Surgery surgery even in the US, like surgery is I
Speaker 2: don't know, elective surgery is scary because having surgery sucks.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know, recovery sucks, Like I just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that's the price you pay for all the
Speaker 2: fun stuff in life. Like I would love to get
Speaker 2: tons of surgery, I guess, but like, I'm not doing
Speaker 2: a recovery. And I talked to someone who got the
Speaker 2: hair plug thing, and it's like you have to take
Speaker 2: baths and massa.
Speaker 4: There's so many steps.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to be like having to
Speaker 2: lotion my scars in a chice bandage sitting.
Speaker 4: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't, I can't, Like I'd rather just deal with
Speaker 2: whatever my I think about myself than go under them.
Speaker 4: It's just scary for me.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's also because I had to have a lot
Speaker 2: of surgeries as a kid or something, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just and my parent I've seen
Speaker 2: my parents have all these you know, medical disasters. I
Speaker 2: guess I just associate it with disaster. So it's like
Speaker 2: it's not a fun thing.
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone. Yeah, it's awful, like, but some.
Speaker 2: People are down, like some people are getting plastics or yes,
Speaker 2: all the time. Like most celebrities we know are under
Speaker 2: the knife constantly. We don't see the scars and they're
Speaker 2: bouncing back. So but I wonder they but they can
Speaker 2: hire people to like roll them over and clean their wounds.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I can't. Yeah, because even remy mad. She
Speaker 2: was on Chloe Kardashian's podcast and I did listen to.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know her. She was like
Speaker 2: a plus size influencer. People got mad because she went
Speaker 2: a horseback riding and they told her she was too
Speaker 2: fat to be on the horse, and like everyone fun
Speaker 2: of her. Okay, so that was like a but that
Speaker 2: was years ago. She's like I'm known for whatever. She
Speaker 2: would put on outfits and like it was real life,
Speaker 2: like try ons for like weddings or whatnot, and she'd
Speaker 2: be like, I look on her, I look bad and
Speaker 2: then she's whatever. Her weight would fluctuate, but then in
Speaker 2: the past year she like lost tons of weight but
Speaker 2: refused to talk about it. So she was this plus
Speaker 2: size influencer and then dropped probably like I don't know
Speaker 2: how much weight she's lost, but she looks different. But
Speaker 2: anyone that talked to her was like inquiring about it.
Speaker 2: She would block, like she was like, I don't ow
Speaker 2: you shit, leave me alone and get I get it,
Speaker 2: because if you were someone that fluctuates and you don't
Speaker 2: want people knowing your business, I get where she's coming from.
Speaker 2: But it's like, this is also your career. Yeah, But
Speaker 2: so she went on Chloe Kardashian to reveal the truth.
Speaker 2: So I did listen to that episode, but she like,
Speaker 2: so she got a gastric sleeve or bipa whatever a
Speaker 2: gas strik surgery is. But she has to take twenty
Speaker 2: vitamins every single day for the rest of her life.
Speaker 2: And she has seen one hundred and twenty grams of
Speaker 2: protein every single day.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I drink chicken.
Speaker 2: So it is like you say, you know, it's like
Speaker 2: nothing is an easy fix, right, it seems like but
Speaker 2: the idea is I can't take vita of it. I
Speaker 2: don't want I can't do that now, Like the steak's
Speaker 2: being that high. That's why people, I think, gain weight.
Speaker 5: Again.
Speaker 2: You're supposed to be really careful about drinking and addictions transferring,
Speaker 2: and I guess a lot of people get really injured
Speaker 2: after these surgeries because they become alcoholics.
Speaker 4: Oh god, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't know, it's just really it's just
Speaker 2: really wild. I'm not like educated on any of it.
Speaker 2: If I'm wrong about stuff, but just hearing her on
Speaker 2: this podcast, feel like I have to take twenty vitamins
Speaker 2: a day, I'm like, yeah, I'm ow like I would
Speaker 2: never do any surgery, Like I don't want to. I
Speaker 2: just can't imagine having to surgery. Yeah, because it's.
Speaker 1: Still that's really I didn't want to have a sea
Speaker 1: section because and I mean people have sea sections every day,
Speaker 1: but I was like, it is a major surgery. I
Speaker 1: think people don't treat it like that, probably because it
Speaker 1: only affects women.
Speaker 4: But like it is a major cutting you open because
Speaker 4: I knew someone that had to have that.
Speaker 2: And like what we kept talking about was like what
Speaker 2: if you're a single mom and no one's helping you.
Speaker 2: You can't even carry your fucking baby and you're in
Speaker 2: stomach sert I can't like fuck everything that we do not,
Speaker 2: I don't know, see sections are insane. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: you and then you hear the horror stories of what
Speaker 2: Instagram usually is feeding down my fucking neck of my throat.
Speaker 4: I mean, but like, uh go make me a roast,
Speaker 4: you know, like.
Speaker 2: Why aren't you making stuff like bounce This idea of
Speaker 2: bounced back or like you're my wife, you have to
Speaker 2: fuck me now is like so crazy. When you think
Speaker 2: about babies coming out of a human after being grown,
Speaker 2: it's just like nuts. We haven't even talked about fucking Atlanta.
Speaker 2: We haven't even talked about the woman being fucking kept
Speaker 2: alive as an incubator. Oh my, global styles so disgusting.
Speaker 2: It's so disgusting, like this baby and the like the
Speaker 2: baby's not the fetus is not viable.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's this is a nightmare. This is
Speaker 4: just experimenting on black man.
Speaker 2: It's like it's truly never ending the horrors of the country.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah whatever, but you know as as yeah,
Speaker 1: get get Annabel to DC, throw over the.
Speaker 4: Game about yeah, hang out right on that like.
Speaker 2: A grenade, just fucking T shirt cannon into the rose garden.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Oh my god, Annabel is going to
Speaker 1: be the solution to all of our problems. Let's get going.
Speaker 1: We've got a good one for you guys.
Speaker 2: All right, we are doing Consent, Season two, episode ten.
Speaker 4: We're going way back.
Speaker 2: What a thrill, Consent, And I feel like someone in
Speaker 2: Congress is trying to take that away. Bring it to
Speaker 2: the sansual, bring it to the States. Consent has to
Speaker 2: be brought to the States. It's like insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a sixteen old in Arkansas might believe differently
Speaker 1: than a sixteen year old in Oregon, and we need
Speaker 1: to respect that.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's dorks running through a college campus. It's a
Speaker 2: guy in a gal They're talking about study groups, and
Speaker 2: they also like hate the homeless. They're like, ugh, that
Speaker 2: bum again, probably fertilizing the bushes.
Speaker 4: And it's like he doesn't have a home. Where do
Speaker 4: you wanted to piss? Like in your mouth? Fuck?
Speaker 2: Off, so they do say hi, and they do know
Speaker 2: his name, so maybe it's not that ad a serial
Speaker 2: of a relationship. They're like Harry, but then and they
Speaker 2: run towards him. He runs off, but there's groaning. It's
Speaker 2: a woman in the bushes. She's not doing well, contorted
Speaker 2: body but alive, and we're at the hospital quick. She's
Speaker 2: a student at Hanford University, which kind of died out quick.
Speaker 4: Like I don't remember Hanford really I thought that too.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, interesting, because like we move on
Speaker 1: pretty quick to Hudson, and then it's usually Hudson or
Speaker 1: you know, University of New York. I feel like maybe
Speaker 1: they've done or like they've done ones that are Hunter
Speaker 1: all the timeunter but maybe not three two Hunter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but and then Hanford. I was like, damn, okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just never really heard of it.
Speaker 2: But it feels like a Columbia like looking at it,
Speaker 2: like that's what I envisioned, anything that's a full campus
Speaker 2: like and want to use very into the city.
Speaker 4: I feel like Columbia has a campus.
Speaker 1: It's pretty much I would say, the only place that
Speaker 1: you're going to go see what you immediately telegraph as college,
Speaker 1: like greens and like quads is Columbia, I.
Speaker 4: Feel in New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really know if there's because you know,
Speaker 1: there's Pratt. There's all these kinds of schools, but they
Speaker 1: are very urban.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So at seven am early, there's alcohol in her breath,
Speaker 2: semi conscious, no panties, and we're getting an update from
Speaker 2: a uniformed cop.
Speaker 4: And this feels very early seasons.
Speaker 2: I feel like medical staff usually fills in our crew
Speaker 2: at the hospital.
Speaker 1: But so, did you love what an actor this cop was?
Speaker 1: Like her diction was perfect, Like the girl is getting
Speaker 1: seen right now by the doctor like she was just
Speaker 1: had like the most like perfect diction. I go, they
Speaker 1: got this girl right out of acting.
Speaker 4: School, Like she's pumped. I did not catch that. But
Speaker 4: we meet the doc.
Speaker 2: He has a beard, he's vague on the details, but
Speaker 2: all classic signs of essay and she but she's refusing
Speaker 2: a rape kit and he's hoping that the detectives can help.
Speaker 2: So we do a black light situation and we're truly rubbing,
Speaker 2: like swabbing remnants have come off her stomach. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're showing it. It's like pretty wild for prime time.
Speaker 2: And then they try to give her a pill that'll
Speaker 2: prevent pregnancy. So I guess he came everywhere. I don't know,
Speaker 2: like pretty crazy. She's really upset. There's seemen, no condom,
Speaker 2: there is rape. She's crying. She's upset about all the news.
Speaker 2: She keeps crying, saying no, I can't even like with
Speaker 2: the mention of taking the pills to prevent STDs, like
Speaker 2: it's all just too much for her and she cannot
Speaker 2: handle it. Benson calls her sweetheart and says she doesn't
Speaker 2: have to decide right now, but the doc is like,
Speaker 2: but day are two max or like none of these
Speaker 2: pills will work. So then she says, you don't understand
Speaker 2: I was a virgin, and then she's gripping Benson's hand
Speaker 2: and we roll into the credits. So now we're talking
Speaker 2: to Dana Kimball, her roommate, who arrives at the hospital
Speaker 2: to bring her fresh clothes, and then she's chatting with
Speaker 2: Stabler and it's Michelle fucking Monahan. Are you kidding? I
Speaker 2: don't think it think for me that Michelle Monahan was
Speaker 2: ever even in SVU. I don't have a memory of her.
Speaker 2: I don't have a memory. I know this episode. I
Speaker 2: was excited. It's cool to be able to see someone
Speaker 2: over decades. She just looks so young. It's really like
Speaker 2: a fresh face. Yeah, young girl.
Speaker 1: She looks so pretty and yeah, like such a little
Speaker 1: college student.
Speaker 2: And so basically, she was out with some sorority sisters.
Speaker 2: This is what we find out about from the roommate.
Speaker 2: She was out with Tess and Jodi at a frat
Speaker 2: house party. They left while she was still partying at
Speaker 2: one thirty, so everyone left. She's alone there at one
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning, and she was with Joe Templeton.
Speaker 2: And I always think of Templeton, the rat from s
Speaker 2: Charlotte's Web every that's the Templeton of my heart.
Speaker 1: There's another Templeton for me. No, and then Hank Ludlow
Speaker 1: and the guys are the guys she stayed out with.
Speaker 2: Stablor asks her if they're her friends, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it friends. Joe had a thing for her,
Speaker 2: but she shut him down, and he won't stop going
Speaker 2: after her, but she's not interested because he's a player.
Speaker 2: She got worried when she didn't come home last night
Speaker 2: because she knows the line, and you know, she knew
Speaker 2: something was wrong. So Benson comes to meet Stabler with
Speaker 2: some bad news. So basically, there's tears, there's semen, but
Speaker 2: she's still really vague on the details. Not tears, tears, Okay,
Speaker 2: hold on. So Benson comes to me. I was like,
Speaker 2: why would that be evidence?
Speaker 1: And then I was like, I guess that episode with
Speaker 1: the tissues, but with the tissues, but this is tears,
Speaker 1: which is all right, we could leave it in, and
Speaker 1: we'll leave it in. Yeah, it's tears, not tears and semen.
Speaker 1: So her blood alcohol is still point oh four. But
Speaker 1: let's not go, you know, so we gotta have we
Speaker 1: gotta go talk to these and see how she ended
Speaker 1: up in the bushes. And now we meet Gordie, who
Speaker 1: we used to not care about but now we've really
Speaker 1: mentioned him a few times, and he's an early CSU
Speaker 1: tech and he is fighting with campus police. So munch
Speaker 1: in Finner approaching them and they're like talking shit and
Speaker 1: they're being the cutest and they're like, oh, campus Fuzz
Speaker 1: wants to clear the crime scene and you know, telling
Speaker 1: him to hurry up, and the pedestrians are arriving. Ten
Speaker 1: thousand students will be in the quad by nine am.
Speaker 2: There's no fucking way at nine am there's gonna be
Speaker 2: a parade of ten thousand students.
Speaker 1: Well that bumped me too because I was like, I
Speaker 1: think of ten thousand students at like big state schools,
Speaker 1: like I don't. I mean, yeah, even if that many
Speaker 1: kids go there, they're not a bigger than Radio City.
Speaker 1: So like, imagine a full Radio City music hall that
Speaker 1: would be a parade on campus. Like this guy is
Speaker 1: crazy ten thousand students, Okay, Now, like Columbia has an
Speaker 1: undergrad of ninety seven hundred and then there's obviously more
Speaker 1: grad students they don't even usually like live on campus.
Speaker 1: But you're saying basically every single undergrad is going to
Speaker 1: be up and on the quad at nine am whatever.
Speaker 1: That is, no dude.
Speaker 2: And so he's like, you guys are looking for God,
Speaker 2: and you guys are just looking for god knows what.
Speaker 2: And they're like, it's a crime scene, Barney, they're looking
Speaker 2: for evidence and that's iced tea. And the man goes,
Speaker 2: my name's Monroe, Detective, and it's like, yeah, they know
Speaker 2: they're calling you a purple dinosaur, you fucking idiot. He says,
Speaker 2: crime scene or not, this is private property. And he's
Speaker 2: talking about the price of the shrubs, and it's like,
Speaker 2: why do you care about the price of shrubs? In
Speaker 2: what world? Who cares how much the shrubs are? This
Speaker 2: is crazy. A woman has been found into the bushes, like,
Speaker 2: I don't understand this man at all, and Munch goes, well,
Speaker 2: I can arrest you for obstructing justice if you'd like so, and.
Speaker 4: Then and then they're like, I bet.
Speaker 2: The university is going to pay for your bail, right
Speaker 2: because you care so much about the bush price, And
Speaker 2: he backs down and says make it quick. So what
Speaker 2: does Gordy have? Gordy finds a used condom, a handbag
Speaker 2: with victim's hairbrush and ID and a scarf, and Finn
Speaker 2: loves the scarf. He goes, wow, styling. So we go
Speaker 2: talk to the joggers next. So basically she did. They
Speaker 2: said that like she kept repeating a name Josh or John.
Speaker 2: So they also let the detectives know about Harry, and
Speaker 2: so then they go to find Harry.
Speaker 4: He's you know, he lives in the streets.
Speaker 2: He's eating out of the trash and Munch screams, you
Speaker 2: want some syrup for those flapjacks? Slappy, and I kind
Speaker 2: of like that, and he goes running, but it's like
Speaker 2: I would run to if someone called me slappy, and also.
Speaker 4: Like why are we beating? Like the guy's eating.
Speaker 1: Under the trash, you know, like yeah, slappy whatever. So
Speaker 1: the chase time they get him, he has her wallet.
Speaker 1: They arrest him for a possession of stolen property. So
Speaker 1: we're in woodroom blinds and they're not turning on the lights.
Speaker 1: It's so dark.
Speaker 2: The sun's so dark like light, there's a light is
Speaker 2: peeking through the blinds.
Speaker 4: It is so dark in this room.
Speaker 2: Sailor's being a little aggressive, I feel, and not as
Speaker 2: soft as I would like to this clearly traumatized woman
Speaker 2: who's like finally ready to like open up. But then
Speaker 2: I watched the scene two more times and he actually
Speaker 2: was fine. He just set down a paper cup and says,
Speaker 2: so take us through it, Kelly.
Speaker 4: I don't know how.
Speaker 2: I feel like I just don't like his energy, but
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it,
Speaker 2: and he is chill, like I'm not sure, but it
Speaker 2: made me mad at first.
Speaker 4: So then finally she's ready to talk. She says.
Speaker 2: Jody testing her left the house at nine pint thirty
Speaker 2: to go to the College Keg. It's a bar near campus,
Speaker 2: and that's where they met Joe and Hank, and they
Speaker 2: invited them to come to a booth at the bar.
Speaker 2: They hung there for an hour or two, went back
Speaker 2: to the Beta House to play video games in Joe's room.
Speaker 2: Stable asks for details on Joe and she says, not much,
Speaker 2: just a typical frat rat. But they flirted, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't serious. He asked, She's a very Luayanne in terms
Speaker 2: of flirting. She's out there, she's flirting. He asks about
Speaker 2: Hank and she says, you've gotta be kidding me. Benson asked,
Speaker 2: did they make sexual advances? She says, not more than usual,
Speaker 2: but we were just having fun. They ask how much
Speaker 2: she drank. I think she's lying. She said, one to
Speaker 2: two glasses of Margarita's and a few SIPs of beer
Speaker 2: at the house. And maybe she's responsible, but I feel
Speaker 2: she's like doing what we do at doctor's offices.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how often do you drink hmm, couple times
Speaker 1: a week, one to three drinks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this doesn't seem right.
Speaker 2: Last thing she remembers is sitting all on the floor talking, laughing,
Speaker 2: and then it gets fuzzy. She remembers feeling cold, someone
Speaker 2: pulling on her hair, and then nothing. She cries and says,
Speaker 2: I didn't think I was drinking that much, but I
Speaker 2: guess I did. It's my fault. Like classic, She's like,
Speaker 2: oh God, what did I do? She cries. She puts
Speaker 2: her head in her hands, and then the paper cup
Speaker 2: she has in front of her is the classic eighties white,
Speaker 2: teal and purple design, which I think it's like pretty
Speaker 2: bright for a rape chat, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if they had to go full full
Speaker 2: brightness on.
Speaker 4: The cup there.
Speaker 2: And also the detectives are silent and they're just making
Speaker 2: icon contact with each other and like kind of being
Speaker 2: judgy and like she is crying and they are saying no.
Speaker 2: She goes, what have I done? Crying? And they don't
Speaker 2: say anything to her. So I was right. They are
Speaker 2: cold and rude, do they are? But I think that
Speaker 2: they're setting this up on purpose. They're setting this up
Speaker 2: because of a larger conversation about women and sexuality and
Speaker 2: things that are going on in the culture at this moment,
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, and I can elaborate more. Munch
Speaker 2: and Finn are with you know, the outside man, Harry,
Speaker 2: and he has some charges in his background.
Speaker 4: Obviously he probably loves a tough life.
Speaker 2: So he said he found things in the bushes and
Speaker 2: he was going to take them to the Lost and Found.
Speaker 2: But you know, Munch is like, okay, but you were
Speaker 2: at the dumpster. That's not the Lost and Found, and
Speaker 2: he goes, well, I wanted to eat first, and Finn
Speaker 2: is like, come again, and it's like the classic John
Speaker 2: mulaney joke of like you haven't heard a man eating
Speaker 2: out of the trash, Like what are you confused about him?
Speaker 4: You grew up in New York City.
Speaker 2: But breakfast stuff gets there at eleven, he said, and
Speaker 2: he wanted to get hot food.
Speaker 4: Finn does not like that.
Speaker 2: He jumps up, slams on the table and screams, do
Speaker 2: you think this is a joke, And he's like, no, no,
Speaker 2: no joke.
Speaker 4: I go there every day.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I think he's just explaining his day, Like
Speaker 2: I don't h They're like so off base here, and
Speaker 2: Munch goes not for long after this, you motherfucker, and
Speaker 2: Finn gets in his face and goes, we're gonna we're
Speaker 2: one blood test away from nailing your little scruffy ass
Speaker 2: for rape, and Munch goes, should I used the condom, Harry,
Speaker 2: And he's so scared, and he's scared of needles.
Speaker 4: He starts crying, no needles, no needles, and the.
Speaker 2: Threat of a blood test is enough to get him talking,
Speaker 2: so he says he was making his rounds. She came
Speaker 2: out of the frat house. She was wobbly, it was late.
Speaker 2: He followed her and she fell down a few times
Speaker 2: and she was out cold. He took the money in
Speaker 2: the cards, but he didn't rape anybody. And then it
Speaker 2: cuts to a uniform cop taking him away and goes
Speaker 2: and he goes, you, sons of bitches, you said no needles,
Speaker 2: And then Munch really flatly says, yeah, well we lied.
Speaker 4: I like that. I love that a lot. I miss
Speaker 4: I miss Munch.
Speaker 2: So our our friend sent me a link and there
Speaker 2: was an auction and I was trying to get Munch's
Speaker 2: business card, id badge and bat and police badge, and
Speaker 2: I raised my limit once but I couldn't do it again,
Speaker 2: so I didn't get it. But I'm glad it went
Speaker 2: for a lot, and I'm glad like it was a
Speaker 2: tough auction, and I tried.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you know what it went for?
Speaker 1: In the end, No, I kind of just had to
Speaker 1: excuse myself out. But I I wanted it.
Speaker 2: I wanted it. I would have I would have loved
Speaker 2: to have it. But whoever has it, I'm happy for them.
Speaker 2: So now it's a full team meeting and Cranion goes, Okay, listen,
Speaker 2: but the if the blood test does not match, we're
Speaker 2: back at zero. So let's at least come up with
Speaker 2: another plan and still keep working. The panties are still
Speaker 2: missing and six hours of her memory, so let's go
Speaker 2: talk to other people that were at the party. So
Speaker 2: we're at the Delta Cappa Delta sorority house and these
Speaker 2: girls are fucking sluts off I've ever seen them.
Speaker 4: And the house is crazy. It's like purple.
Speaker 2: The curtains are lush, it's insane, and it's it seems
Speaker 2: like a gay Dracula would live there, not like young girls.
Speaker 2: It's really an opulent like Liberachi vibe. I would say, yeah,
Speaker 2: and they're in leopard print highlights. I mean, these girls
Speaker 2: are just like I bet the director goes to the
Speaker 2: costume director, slut it up, slut it up, the perfect
Speaker 2: costuming here I would say. So they played strip poker
Speaker 2: last night retro. They got to the house at around eleven.
Speaker 2: They then they called their friend Loose. They go, she
Speaker 2: was hanging all over Joe and making a fool of herself,
Speaker 2: and it's like with friends like these, who needs enemies?
Speaker 2: They say, she was always glued to somebody. But once
Speaker 2: Kelly was in her bron panties, they decided to leave.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, that's when you decided to leave. And
Speaker 2: they're like, well, Kelly was giving Joe a lap dance,
Speaker 2: and Stabler says and Joe and the brunette girl goes,
Speaker 2: he was lapping it up, wouldn't you. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't know, Detective Stabler, because he would never because
Speaker 2: that is a representation of his daughter Maureen.
Speaker 4: So how dare you? How dare you?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: Damren?
Speaker 2: So we are with Joe now and he is in
Speaker 2: a turtleneck with an attitude and I hate him, and
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, she had the hot ticket and I
Speaker 2: would have loved to punch for it or punch it
Speaker 2: for whatever, you know, punch a ticket. He's making a
Speaker 2: funny joke, I guess, but also inappropriate. She is a
Speaker 2: rape victim, So even if you didn't do it, why
Speaker 2: are you talking like this? Like no humanity? But he goes,
Speaker 2: but she puked all over the floor and ruined everything,
Speaker 2: and then he calls his penis mister Happy. It's truly disgusting.
Speaker 2: He keeps making jokes and it's a serious thing. So
Speaker 2: the fact that he takes it so lightly or I
Speaker 2: already said that I had it written later, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: really believe it.
Speaker 4: So Bunch hates him too. Dub.
Speaker 2: He says that he let her sleep it off in
Speaker 2: his room and he went to crash on the sofa.
Speaker 1: Yeah right.
Speaker 2: Finn is talking to a man in a beige fleece
Speaker 2: quarter zip and it's like a Nick Carter blonde center part,
Speaker 2: very JTT hair, Like this is incredible, and both the browns,
Speaker 2: the blonde hairs, they're all not trustworthy. Finn's ponytail is popping.
Speaker 2: It's a showdown. And he also he goes, I slept
Speaker 2: on the fucking floor. He says, I don't know what
Speaker 2: this chick told you, but I heard she worked her
Speaker 2: way through the Kappa SIGs and and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: but you still shouldn't rape a woman and throw her
Speaker 2: in a bush, Like I don't get it. I like
Speaker 2: the reasoning never even fully makes sense to me, and
Speaker 2: I can't believe it's it's so accepted in our society.
Speaker 4: Like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, she's sucked all those other people, so
Speaker 1: who cares. I don't get how. I mean, I get how.
Speaker 1: I'm not an idiot, but it's it's honestly, like continuing
Speaker 1: today with all the body count talk, Yes, you know
Speaker 1: how everybody's always talking about body count, It's like, what
Speaker 1: does it matter, Like we've already talked about this, I
Speaker 1: think on this podcast, but like.
Speaker 4: Well it's your nerd.
Speaker 2: It's this rise of authoritative religion policing body is it's
Speaker 2: back to trying to trap women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it also doesn't make any fucking physical sense.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I think like if I've gone out and
Speaker 1: I've had sex with forty guys for one night stands,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge slut. But if I'm a girl who's
Speaker 1: had sex with my boyfriend one hundred and fifty times,
Speaker 1: why does that make one person any more used up
Speaker 1: than the other one? Are we talking about like stretched
Speaker 1: out vaginas? What are we talking about? What are you
Speaker 1: guys talking about.
Speaker 2: Well, I think men know they're like disgusting, So the
Speaker 2: fact that you would let one inside of you like
Speaker 2: decreases your value, like you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: that's the whole thing where they go, if you're tricked
Speaker 2: by a man and let him in you, you must
Speaker 2: be a dumb whore. And I guess, yeah, I guess,
Speaker 2: I guess you guys are right, But that's it, right
Speaker 2: because if they didn't feel that, they were so disgusting
Speaker 2: and devaluing of women, because it's like the whole thing
Speaker 2: is having sex with you is what makes someone worse
Speaker 2: in your eyes, So what does that say about you?
Speaker 4: Guys?
Speaker 2: Whatever, it's all upsetting, And he says she had her
Speaker 2: eyes set on Joe, and Finn pushes, you think she
Speaker 2: was asking for it?
Speaker 4: He goes, that's not what I said, but for a fact.
Speaker 2: It wasn't either me or Joe. And Finn is also
Speaker 2: wearing like seven layers. It's like so many, so much
Speaker 2: close vests and hoodies and ties and like a fucking
Speaker 2: leather jacket, Like I don't know, he's not sweating. So
Speaker 2: then we see Craigan in the middle of the precinct,
Speaker 2: suspenders nice and tight holding those pants up, and he
Speaker 2: has the most obvious update of all time. Harry's blood
Speaker 2: type did not match the semen obviously sailors, just like, well,
Speaker 2: her friend said that she put on the moves, and
Speaker 2: Finn goes, yep. The boys also say she's loose, and
Speaker 2: Craigan goes, wait, wasn't she a virgin? And so then
Speaker 2: it's like all the boys now fighting Benson and she
Speaker 2: and you know, they're like, well the boys were drunk too,
Speaker 2: and hello, a lapdown.
Speaker 4: This is a strong message.
Speaker 2: And Finn straight up goes, I think buyer's remorse, and
Speaker 2: she goes, I can't believe you're all blaming the victim,
Speaker 2: and Craigan goes, we are not. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well now you're gaslighting you truly are. Craigan goes, no,
Speaker 2: I'm on your side. But we all know how the
Speaker 2: courts work and how law works, and like, we don't
Speaker 2: have a case. So if you know it's the case,
Speaker 2: isn't looking good, get shited together. So thank god Munch
Speaker 2: is there and he's off the phone. Kelly's talk screen
Speaker 2: Jet does show GHB, So there's GHB in the bloodstream,
Speaker 2: and so there's no more ambiguity, is there now? Huh
Speaker 2: that's what Benson says of really, I told you so
Speaker 2: on her face. So the boys, I mean, Finn looks
Speaker 2: down in shame. They're all wrong, and Craigan goes, there's
Speaker 2: only one reason to give someone GHB, which is not true.
Speaker 2: We do have friends that do it, but without alcohol,
Speaker 2: so it just yes, I guess you could.
Speaker 6: At this.
Speaker 1: Time, it feels like GHB is mostly like at they're
Speaker 1: talking about it the date rape drug, but now, like ketamine,
Speaker 1: like so many other things.
Speaker 4: You can use it recreationally, like carefully.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, very carefully, like this Jerson has like
Speaker 2: a stop watch when he does it, no other liqu
Speaker 2: you know, things are going in But yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: I shouldn't promote ghbus recreationally. But it is the date
Speaker 2: rape drug one hundred percent. So we have to find
Speaker 2: out who spiked the drink and then you find your rapist.
Speaker 2: So Stabler and Benson are doing you know, they're at
Speaker 2: the college building. She's met with the dean of students
Speaker 2: and they want her to do university court, not press
Speaker 2: criminal charges, and Benson goes, but it's a crime, and
Speaker 2: she goes, but what if it was my fault? And
Speaker 2: then they are like, well, no, we found GHB in
Speaker 2: your system and she doesn't even know what it is
Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, the chills, the vomiting, these oral
Speaker 2: side effects, and Benson says, you could have died, Kelly,
Speaker 2: and it's like okay, okay, and so then she of
Speaker 2: course feels like it's her fault even more because she
Speaker 2: didn't take anything. And they're like, no, we know someone
Speaker 2: took away your ability to consent. He raped you. Kelly
Speaker 2: asks well who, and Benson goes, that's what we're trying
Speaker 2: to find out. We need you to help us. You
Speaker 2: said you were drinking margarita. Did you ever leave your
Speaker 2: drink unattended?
Speaker 4: Did you?
Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, I went to dance and go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, but you know, I was on the
Speaker 2: table with everyone else's drink.
Speaker 4: And they're like, how'd you feel when you left?
Speaker 2: She felt fine, And then when she was having beers
Speaker 2: at the house is when she started to feel strange.
Speaker 2: They ask if anyone else was there and she goes, well,
Speaker 2: Wally Parker, and so a new name emerges, one of
Speaker 2: the frat brothers. So but she says that Wally left
Speaker 2: and it was just Hank and Joe who stayed back
Speaker 2: with her, and Stabler tells her, like, keep this conversation
Speaker 2: between us. Benson says, let us know if anything turns up.
Speaker 2: She blinks really slowly and looks away. It's like a
Speaker 2: really dramatic scene. So we're at the College keg bar
Speaker 2: and college is spelled wrong, like with a k okay.
Speaker 2: So the man says, do you know how many frat
Speaker 2: rats are here every night? So we're at the keg
Speaker 2: and then mun she's like, I wonder how many underage
Speaker 2: people are here? And Finn then threatens, of course, to
Speaker 2: send undercovers to the bar. So they show a photo
Speaker 2: and this mustache guy it looks like a fireman. Really,
Speaker 2: It goes, oh, that's the babe bets me a twenty
Speaker 2: against a free beer that he can call a home
Speaker 2: run like Babe Ruth. So he points out a girl
Speaker 2: and if he could bagger, then he wins. They ask
Speaker 2: for his batting average and he says he drinks a
Speaker 2: lot more than he pays, so clue. They showed the
Speaker 2: photo of Kelly and he goes. They go did he
Speaker 2: step up to bat and swing?
Speaker 4: With her.
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of puns going on here for
Speaker 2: rape instigation.
Speaker 4: You're talking to cops.
Speaker 1: I don't think anything could happen to the girl they're
Speaker 1: showing in the picture of like.
Speaker 4: No, but the detectives say that, Oh, I thought the
Speaker 4: guy I'm sorry. I was like, that's even like the
Speaker 4: bartender needs to chill. Oh, but it is a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the detections are like, it's like it's pun central
Speaker 2: up in here.
Speaker 4: But the bartender, remember.
Speaker 1: I also love that they're offering to bring They're like
Speaker 1: threatening to bring in undercovers. It's like, what's it going
Speaker 1: to be Stabler in a jean jacket. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: he'll fill your figure out.
Speaker 4: Who it is.
Speaker 1: Benson with a pacifier around her neck. I think they'll
Speaker 1: know the cops are there. Yeah, the forty five year
Speaker 1: old Catholic man from Queen's. They all came in a group,
Speaker 1: that's what the bartender says, and Joe picked her out
Speaker 1: this time about fifty dollars against a picture, and they
Speaker 1: walked out together. So we go to visit the dean
Speaker 1: who can only assume we can only assume as a
Speaker 1: dumb bitch, and she's in a Republican red skirt suit.
Speaker 1: So she says that she gave Kelly her full support
Speaker 1: and Benson's like, no, you're trying to convince her not
Speaker 1: to press charges. She goes, I just gave her an
Speaker 1: alternative to the criminal proceedings. The decision is hers and
Speaker 1: Sailor's like, okay, well, how does this committee work? And
Speaker 1: it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's three students,
Speaker 1: three faculty. Each of the people present their case, they
Speaker 1: can get up to three witnesses, and then the sentences
Speaker 1: are suspension or expulsion. Why wouldn't students be listening to
Speaker 1: rape stuff? Like, it's really crazy. It's a nineteen yearly crazy.
Speaker 1: It's this whole system is built so that colleges can
Speaker 1: keep their numbers down of crime, because that's a huge
Speaker 1: thing people ask when they go on tours of schools,
Speaker 1: is like, what's the criminal what are the criminal elements?
Speaker 4: What are the stats? And if you can keep your
Speaker 4: stats down, then you.
Speaker 1: Get people still coming and paying thirty to sixty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars a year to go to your institution. And it's
Speaker 1: a business, you know, Like, that's completely what it is.
Speaker 1: I was on one of these committees at my school,
Speaker 1: not for sexual misconduct, but other misconduct. And I had
Speaker 1: no right to be on that. Why was I on that?
Speaker 1: Like why am I deciding anyone's punishment. I had to
Speaker 1: see a punishment. I had to see the case of
Speaker 1: one of my friends and he was like older than
Speaker 1: me and hot, and I was like, he's getting off.
Speaker 1: I'm letting him go, like you.
Speaker 4: Know what I mean. But he didn't do anything sexual.
Speaker 1: This was like a thing that happened with like people
Speaker 1: fighting with campus safety or something like that at my school.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, what I don't understand, Like it's crazy.
Speaker 1: They're not even like we bring in an outside mediator, we.
Speaker 4: Get Yeah, I was just thinking, like, what it's safe?
Speaker 4: He looks at it.
Speaker 1: It's like kids and staff and everybody the whole point.
Speaker 1: It's like you're in a community, so everybody knows each
Speaker 1: other and has pre existing shit with each other.
Speaker 4: So that's not fair. It's not fair really now you know.
Speaker 2: No, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it
Speaker 2: makes no one safer, nobody because you're not getting rid
Speaker 2: of these criminals, and you're letting this behavior slide, like
Speaker 2: you're putting more and more students at risk.
Speaker 4: It's like so fucked up.
Speaker 2: So Stabler asks if Joe and Hank have ever been
Speaker 2: part of these hearings, and of course they're not at
Speaker 2: liberty to say. Benson's like, a girl was drugged in rape?
Speaker 2: Or are you're sure about that? And she goes, listen,
Speaker 2: you need a court order, Like you guys know how
Speaker 2: things work. So Benson and Sybla are walking outside the
Speaker 2: school and of course they're chatting about Maureen. It's daughter
Speaker 2: compare chat time and we can skip right through that
Speaker 2: to Cabot. There's a coffee maker in the middle of
Speaker 2: the room and I love that. I love seeing everyone
Speaker 2: at work. And they're like, habit, we need the records,
Speaker 2: you know, what can we do? What can we do?
Speaker 2: But they need more evidence to get those So without
Speaker 2: more evidence, you do not get the student records.
Speaker 4: So like, what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: Munch says, what if we like fuck with the campus cop, Like,
Speaker 2: let's let's try with him. He thinks they have some
Speaker 2: camaraderie and it's like, uh, you get was pretty fucked
Speaker 2: up interacri very rude to him, and Benson's like, and
Speaker 2: there was a third guy mentioned Wally, So let's talk
Speaker 2: to him. Craigan's like, yeah, all hands on deck. So
Speaker 2: they find Wally and he's not a typical frack guy.
Speaker 2: You could tell he's more of a loser and he
Speaker 2: has a beard and he he he went to study.
Speaker 2: He says, okay, like she had one margarita and he's studying.
Speaker 4: What's going on here? I Zach.
Speaker 2: So this guy's name is Zach Orth, the actor, and
Speaker 2: I love him. He's in one of my favorite scenes
Speaker 2: in VEEP. He's also in What Hot American Summer. He
Speaker 2: plays JJ, but his longest role is for something called Revolution.
Speaker 2: He was on it for like forty something episodes, but
Speaker 2: he's been another SVU episode from season twenty six, episode four, Constricted,
Speaker 2: So that means this season I saw, oh this.
Speaker 1: And I probably just watched it because I'm kind of behind.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, Constricted is that episode that they just did
Speaker 1: where the mom like gives her daughter and her boyfriend
Speaker 1: like the house because she thinks that they're going to
Speaker 1: like lose their virginity and she wants to be cute.
Speaker 4: Like like have it be special.
Speaker 1: But then this kid's dad showed him all this porn,
Speaker 1: so like it's really violent and like bad and he
Speaker 1: plays the bad dad. No, he's a defense attorney. And
Speaker 1: actually I look this up on his IMDb. This defense
Speaker 1: attorney he plays, Harry Kagan, is also in regular Law
Speaker 1: and Order, So I think he's bouncing back a little
Speaker 1: bit back and forth. JJ's bouncing back and forth in
Speaker 1: the Dick Wolf universe playing a defense attorney of the
Speaker 1: same name. Woweah yeah, maybe episodes not like a ton
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, yeah, that episode was.
Speaker 4: So they're talking to Wally, they're talking to JJ.
Speaker 2: They're talking to Wally zach Orth okay, and he's acting
Speaker 2: very like what do you mean?
Speaker 4: What? What? What? What do you mean by these questions?
Speaker 4: In her action?
Speaker 2: What shocked? He's being asked anything? And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: did you talk to her? Did she seem lucid? What
Speaker 2: what's going on? And he's like she was partying but dressed.
Speaker 2: And Stabler's like, did anything seem out of whack to you?
Speaker 2: And He's like like, what he's playing so dumb? I'm
Speaker 2: so annoyed right now. So then Stable's like, you tell me, like,
Speaker 2: can you fucking start talking? You better play now, or
Speaker 2: you know, we're really going to test your brotherhood. When
Speaker 2: you're in criminal court. He looks down. He says, at
Speaker 2: one pm, or probably one am, he says, at one
Speaker 2: in the morning, he went downstairs for some water and
Speaker 2: he saw Hank and Joe in the TV room, and
Speaker 2: when he went upstairs, he saw that she was alone
Speaker 2: in his room crying. There was puke and like her
Speaker 2: hair was messed up, and she did look like she
Speaker 2: needed a friend.
Speaker 4: He offered to walk her home.
Speaker 2: He went up to get you know, his coat, but
Speaker 2: then she was gone by the time he came back.
Speaker 2: So now it's fin in Munch with the fake cop
Speaker 2: and he's like, what, you're back to bully me some more.
Speaker 2: And they're like, honestly, we were too hard on you.
Speaker 2: We're sorry, and he's like, you know, we're not all
Speaker 2: wind up cops. I'm finished my criminology degree next month
Speaker 2: and I'm applying to the FEDS. And Munch goes, you know,
Speaker 2: my cousin's a g man. I didn't know being an
Speaker 2: FBI as g Mann. Do you know what that is?
Speaker 4: Like weird? No, yeah, and I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, it's a it's government. It stands for any
Speaker 1: being government. Yeah, it stands for government. Man.
Speaker 4: I guess yeah.
Speaker 2: So then Munch offers to put in a good word
Speaker 2: as a professional courtesy, and this guy's not that dumb.
Speaker 4: He goes, Okay, what do you want? Why are you
Speaker 4: really here?
Speaker 2: Like, you're not here to help me out because you
Speaker 2: feel bad for bullying me when I was clearly in
Speaker 2: the wrong about having you speed up a rape case,
Speaker 2: you know, investigation.
Speaker 4: So they ask about Joe and.
Speaker 2: Getting information from him and how the school won't give
Speaker 2: up any info, and he's like, oh, you want me
Speaker 2: to ignore campus policy so you can help make your case,
Speaker 2: And Munch goes, no, we want to like help nail
Speaker 2: our rapists. So he thinks about it and says, off
Speaker 2: the record, that guy's nothing but trouble. I get more
Speaker 2: complaints about that frat house than any other frat on campus.
Speaker 2: He continues, there's a woman on the swim team that
Speaker 2: said he raped her. No charges because the campus court
Speaker 2: figured it out. They did the thing, and Templeton got
Speaker 2: her drunk and then did her in a stupor. That's
Speaker 2: a direct quote. I didn't come up with that. And
Speaker 2: they go to talk to this woman and her name
Speaker 2: is Mandy Shoemaker. She's at the pool, and they really
Speaker 2: do look like Men in Black here? And I can't
Speaker 2: believe those comparisons have never been made, like they.
Speaker 4: Are prime times like Men in Black. It's really cool.
Speaker 2: And then the girl is dripping wet because there is
Speaker 2: another episode where Kara caught that, like a woman comes
Speaker 2: out of the pool but she has bone dry in
Speaker 2: her scenes. I think it was for one of our
Speaker 2: live episodes, so I was very closely paying attention this.
Speaker 4: It's for Lust, it's Wanderlust.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she is wet fully, Oh Wanderlust.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, a good episode. So she did and
Speaker 2: they talked to her. She has not even taken her
Speaker 2: goggles off, like she picks herself fut from out of
Speaker 2: the pool, goggles fully still on, and they're like, so
Speaker 2: you got raped. Ay, It's like, can you give her
Speaker 2: a moment to take off her swim cap? Like it's
Speaker 2: just so aggressive, but she's cool.
Speaker 1: I will just say that this actress that plays Mandy
Speaker 1: is named Elizabeth Hendrickson, and I just quickly looked her
Speaker 1: up because she looked familiar a soap opera queen. She's
Speaker 1: been on All My Children sixty five episodes. She's been
Speaker 1: on General Hospital sixty nine episodes. She's been on Young
Speaker 1: and the Restless nine hundred and fifty four episodes. So
Speaker 1: this lady is soaping it up. Oh, I just thought
Speaker 1: that was interesting. You never really see those kind of
Speaker 1: numbers on IMDb.
Speaker 2: No, that's soap. That's that's delegated for soap stars only.
Speaker 2: So she was at a rush party and he hit
Speaker 2: on her. They danced a little, they drank, and then
Speaker 2: she remembers just him on top of her, pulling her hair,
Speaker 2: and she had terrible hickeys and she did not know
Speaker 2: how she got home. So then Finn is like, I
Speaker 2: don't understand why everyone is so rude. He's being like stabler,
Speaker 2: vibe rude. Everyone is rude to her, like all these girls.
Speaker 2: And Finn is like, how do you know that you
Speaker 2: were raped? And she's like, well, I didn't until a
Speaker 2: few weeks later. I realized I was raped because I
Speaker 2: was pregnant and I had to get an abortion. And
Speaker 2: Munch goes, why didn't you go to the cops. She says,
Speaker 2: I talked to a lawyer and then my advisor, and
Speaker 2: they both said there's not much of a case. There's
Speaker 2: no evidence, and I have no memory. So they did
Speaker 2: school court. They found him guilty of conduct onbecoming a student,
Speaker 2: and he got academic probation for one semester. She's like,
Speaker 2: I still see him on campus and he tried to
Speaker 2: even fucking ask me out after she slapped him, and
Speaker 2: now he just snickers about and she goes, it's like
Speaker 2: being raped all over again, and she walks off. And
Speaker 2: so now we're back at work. Benson has files and
Speaker 2: there's an excitement there. She goes into the rapists not
Speaker 2: only left semen, but gone a rhea. Uh oh, So
Speaker 2: then the gift that keeps on giving, but at least
Speaker 2: it's evidence like sorry, everyone has gone a rhea, but
Speaker 2: you know, kind of positive. So then Craigan doesn't really
Speaker 2: care and just says, well, we have to tie him
Speaker 2: to the GHB and we can arrest him.
Speaker 4: That's all we need to do.
Speaker 2: And Cabot's there and she's like that there's just not
Speaker 2: enough for a search warrant, but it's enough to subpoena
Speaker 2: the student records, and if we can get those records
Speaker 2: to match Mandy's testimony, then we can get a search warrant.
Speaker 4: So they go they get the court order. Fuck yeah,
Speaker 4: fuck you to the dean.
Speaker 2: Give us the records and now they're in the frat
Speaker 2: rooms going ham okay. Wally's like trying to be their
Speaker 2: little protector, like you can't invade their privacy like that,
Speaker 2: they're not even home, and Benson's like, we can, and
Speaker 2: we are, like are you fucking stupid? And they find
Speaker 2: blood stains, they find a dropper and then yeah, we're
Speaker 2: like in the lab and the dropper matches the drugs
Speaker 2: and the victim it's the same batch. It is proven
Speaker 2: now and he goes, it's actually uncommonly very pure. It's
Speaker 2: super pure, and he says, who ever made this had
Speaker 2: access to a lab. So we're back at home base
Speaker 2: and Sailor's like, oh my god, Joe's been a busy
Speaker 2: boy and it's always the same. He like gets them
Speaker 2: fucked up, pulls their hair and there's always hickeys, and
Speaker 2: then it's what do we have here? So then they're
Speaker 2: looking at the files and one of the three witnesses
Speaker 2: there are so like, you know, during the student things,
Speaker 2: you need three witnesses. He only had two, one of
Speaker 2: which was his father, excuse me, and it was just
Speaker 2: being a character witness.
Speaker 4: And guess what. He gives tons of money to the school.
Speaker 2: He's an alumni of the school, like things are named
Speaker 2: after him, so no wonder. Joey keeps getting off the
Speaker 2: stuff and Craigan goes, not this time, go get him.
Speaker 2: Munch goes to arrest these losers and they had control
Speaker 2: substances and that's not legal, so arrest them now. A
Speaker 2: man walks into Craigan's office and goes, I demand to
Speaker 2: see my son, very missus Potts. Who am I thinking
Speaker 2: of Angela Lansbury from the episode Night.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, And they're like.
Speaker 1: Well, the police commissioner is a friend. Don't make me
Speaker 1: call him, right?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It is pretty disrespectful to her that I just can't.
Speaker 4: She's Missus Pott, miss me.
Speaker 2: I feel terrible, like a career spanning so long, so
Speaker 2: whatever nobody cares, you know, he can't swing is dick here.
Speaker 2: No one cares about you here. And then the dad
Speaker 2: tries to play hardball and I'm his dad. I get
Speaker 2: to be in there, and Crane goes, you're a fucking idiot.
Speaker 2: He's an adult, so no, you don't have the right
Speaker 2: to be in there, and then he threatens do you
Speaker 2: want me to go over your head? And Craigan stands
Speaker 2: up stoneface. Yeah, I'm not some college dean. You can
Speaker 2: intimidate with threats, and nothing you're doing right now is
Speaker 2: gonna help your son, not one damn bit. And the
Speaker 2: dad does hang his head in shame like he knows,
Speaker 2: and he knows he raised a rapist. So he goes,
Speaker 2: do you have children, Captain? Which I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: The captains get the detective back of merch. Yeah, back
Speaker 2: a round of merch. Do you have children, Captain? I
Speaker 2: love and that's a you know, yeah, we're gonna plug it,
Speaker 2: or do you have children? Detective Merch is incredible And
Speaker 2: I use the bag for soul cycle.
Speaker 4: It's always has.
Speaker 1: My shoes and the T shirt is very soft. Yeah
Speaker 1: I'm cute and I get comments. It's a conversation starter.
Speaker 1: People love it.
Speaker 4: Yeah by it.
Speaker 2: And then crazily, the rapist is in woodroom blinds, which
Speaker 2: kind of wild, but they're batting him around and his
Speaker 2: lawyer's standing in the corner and they're like, listen, we
Speaker 2: know you have gone rhea and he giggles and denies
Speaker 2: it and they're like, well, blood doesn't lie. Benson bends
Speaker 2: down and says, since she was a virgin, we know
Speaker 2: she got it from you. His lawyer says, circumstantial, but
Speaker 2: not really if she's only had one encounter. Stabler's like, Babe,
Speaker 2: once the blood matches, the semen, you're gonna go to
Speaker 2: a campus upstate. And the lawyer goes, well, you need
Speaker 2: a court order for the blood, and Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 2: we both know that's just a formality. But Joe does
Speaker 2: get to walk out and leave, and so now we're
Speaker 2: with the other boy and they go, hey, you know
Speaker 2: this GHP charge isn't going to be really good since
Speaker 2: you already have an ecstasy charge from your past. You
Speaker 2: know your toast and the boy's lawyer is Actually, she
Speaker 2: looked familiar. I looked her up. She's in seven episodes
Speaker 2: of s Tovie seven. She's in the episode season four
Speaker 2: Soulless as the guidance counselor, and then she's in season fourteen, fifteen, seventeen,
Speaker 2: and twenty six as d D.
Speaker 4: Densler. So I'm assuming a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Wait, there's a reason I looked her up because she
Speaker 2: looked really familiar, and I only looked at they to you,
Speaker 2: But I think she's in I think she's in Sextons
Speaker 2: the City. Let me go back on her, IMDb, let
Speaker 2: me go back. I sweach. I think I figured it out.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Oh I don't know why I didn't look further. I
Speaker 2: just saw all those and I assumed that's how I
Speaker 2: knew her. You know what I mean? But her face
Speaker 2: is coming back to me. Mary McCann, is that who
Speaker 2: it is?
Speaker 1: Texas City Lesbie, Yeah, the cheating curve Lydia.
Speaker 4: I knew it.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I didn't see it, but I know
Speaker 2: yet I knew it. Yeahs a power lesbian. I am
Speaker 2: a power lesbian.
Speaker 4: Yep. Mary B.
Speaker 1: McCann, power lesbian. I mean, what an iconic episode. We'll
Speaker 1: never forget. Melinda Warner as well.
Speaker 2: So she pipes up like, hey, hey, hey, the ecstasy
Speaker 2: it was expunged. And they're like, yeah, if he kept
Speaker 2: himself clean till twenty one, but I guess he couldn't
Speaker 2: do that. So you're going back to jail bay. He's
Speaker 2: getting stressed, his head's in his hands, and then Finn
Speaker 2: finally goes, we're gonna get you for rape, and the
Speaker 2: boys like wait, what, no way, and the lawyer's like okay,
Speaker 2: scare tactic like shut up and she says, what are
Speaker 2: you offering? And Munch sits on the corner of a
Speaker 2: desk and goes, what are you offering? And the boy
Speaker 2: thinks and goes, I never saw the stuff, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: how did it get in your room? He says, I
Speaker 2: don't know, but Tests and Jodi were acting weird all
Speaker 2: night and kept topping off her drinks. I told you
Speaker 2: those outfits were skinks. I said, these are some skanky bitches,
Speaker 2: and I was right, No, it can't be. The girls like,
Speaker 2: I am so upset, And he said they kept calling
Speaker 2: it a love potion, but he thought it was like
Speaker 2: just a joke.
Speaker 4: And he's like, I really didn't know.
Speaker 2: But finally he gives actual scoop and basically Joe then
Speaker 2: throws a blanket at Hank and goes hit the bricks,
Speaker 2: and then he said to and then he said to
Speaker 2: his friend, I'm about to hit another home run. So
Speaker 2: we're back at the precinct and they need answers, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, okay, I know who might have the answers.
Speaker 2: Let's go talk to Dana aka Michelle Monahan. Benson and
Speaker 2: Stable are in an outdoor crisp cold walk and talk
Speaker 2: on campus. She says, Kelly and Test didn't get along
Speaker 2: very well at first. In fact, tried to get Kelly
Speaker 2: rejected by the membership, and then like she doesn't want
Speaker 2: to say why, and then like she's being kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, quiet, and Benson goes, girl, I don't know
Speaker 2: what pressure these girls are giving you, but you can
Speaker 2: either live with these dumb bitches, or you can live
Speaker 2: with yourself and being like, you know, impeding on your
Speaker 2: friend's rape investigation.
Speaker 4: So who do you want to be?
Speaker 2: And she spills and so basically, Joe and Test were
Speaker 2: dating last semester. Kelly's knew and she didn't know, so
Speaker 2: when Joe was checking her out and she was lurting back,
Speaker 2: Test was pissed. And then when Joe dumped her, she
Speaker 2: blamed Kelly. And then she overheard Test talking in the
Speaker 2: bathroom that she has the clap. So Test has the clap,
Speaker 2: which means Joe has the clap and gave it to Kelly,
Speaker 2: so this is a clap chain. And she heard something
Speaker 2: about this girl being like and I'm going to get
Speaker 2: even with him. So then it was super strange and suddenly,
Speaker 2: you know, Test is being super nice to Kelly and
Speaker 2: wanting to be her big sister, but then talking behind
Speaker 2: her back and spreading all these rumors. And she saw
Speaker 2: the mixing chemicals in their room. I mean, the evidence
Speaker 2: is piling up. So these bitches set her up. They
Speaker 2: did the mixing the day before they all went out.
Speaker 2: It looked like they were doing homework. There was a notebook,
Speaker 2: and they do have an organic chem lab at the school.
Speaker 2: So we're now at the organic chem lab at the school.
Speaker 2: They open her station, they bag everything as she walks in.
Speaker 1: And wait, let me just tell you something about this actress.
Speaker 1: So this is a crazy, crazy little IMDb chain here.
Speaker 1: So this actress's name is Marika Dominisic and she is
Speaker 1: the sister of Dougmara Dominsic, who was just in the
Speaker 1: last episode we covered Pandora as the agent in Prague
Speaker 1: who is going around with Stabler.
Speaker 4: So there's fiers in real life.
Speaker 1: And I told you she Doagmara is married to Patrick Wilson.
Speaker 1: Marika is married to somebody famous too, and guess who
Speaker 1: it fucking is Scott Foley from the episode Hammered. Yes,
Speaker 1: So these sisters are acting and they are marrying other
Speaker 1: famous actors and she's literally I think has been on
Speaker 1: Grey's Anatomy. This girl, she's very beautiful, Like I was like,
Speaker 1: I was, like, she looks familiar, but yeah, a few
Speaker 1: eleven episodes of Grey's Anatomy. This girl but also married
Speaker 1: to another NSVU from a classic that we do on
Speaker 1: the road called Hammered. But anyway, yeah, I kind of
Speaker 1: love Yeah, a whole family of actors.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think they have another sister who's an actor too,
Speaker 1: but I don't know her. I don't know if she's
Speaker 1: as prolific as them.
Speaker 4: So yeah, So like.
Speaker 2: Basically, she walks in, she sees what they're doing, she
Speaker 2: starts running away. She runs right into her room, where
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler are already searching. It's like incredible, and
Speaker 2: Stanba goes, oh out for a little jog.
Speaker 4: She looks worried they hand over the warrant.
Speaker 2: She goes, this is harassment, and Benson goes, so sue me,
Speaker 2: but she knows she's gotten. And we're back at the
Speaker 2: sixteenth So now the and then Tessa is the Brunette.
Speaker 2: If you were wondering if it was Highlights or Brunette,
Speaker 2: it's the Brunette. And you know they're like Possession is
Speaker 2: one thing, but if we get you on conspiracy, we're
Speaker 2: gonna get you on rape. And her head whips around
Speaker 2: fast rape and Benson goes, yeah, you took away her
Speaker 2: ability to consent, and she says, you'll never prove that,
Speaker 2: like what a confident little killer?
Speaker 4: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: She So they start bullying her and she has frosty
Speaker 2: eyeshadow and she just she just shrugs and goes, I
Speaker 2: better call a lawyer, and she's giving like rich diplomat
Speaker 2: parent vibe, you know what I mean. And then Benson
Speaker 2: goes be my guest and hands her a phone and
Speaker 2: it's an old style phone just with such heaviness and
Speaker 2: I missed that part of my life, like holding a
Speaker 2: handle and a bike, like I don't know, but they're
Speaker 2: watching this girl from the Spyglass.
Speaker 1: Jared just went to go see this horror movie where
Speaker 1: there was like a whole gag in it where like
Speaker 1: they're running away from like the murderer or whatever, and
Speaker 1: they get a rotary phone and they're like call someone,
Speaker 1: but like no one knows how to use the phone.
Speaker 1: They're like, how do you do this? What movie is that?
Speaker 1: That's funny? He saw this movie called clown in a cornfield, okay,
Speaker 1: and I think it's pretty much what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they walk away slowly, but they're watching this
Speaker 2: girl on the spyglass use this phone. And she's wearing
Speaker 2: a pink Sorority sweatshirt and swinging her hair, and she
Speaker 2: stands up and like anxiously to make this call. Stabler
Speaker 2: asks Craigan, who's spying as well, like do you think
Speaker 2: she'll take the bait? And he says, well, no, soon enough,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, she calls the blonde bitch, who hangs
Speaker 2: up starts running downstairs. Michelle Monaghan starts following her down
Speaker 2: the stairs. She runs to the basement. It's like a deep,
Speaker 2: weird storage and she pulls out a bag and it's
Speaker 2: very bicycle messenger bag of the two thousands, Like I
Speaker 2: have such a memory of this kind of bag and
Speaker 2: the logo and stuff, and so there's vials in it,
Speaker 2: glass bottles, I mean, a full fucking thing of potions.
Speaker 2: And she holds it and starts to walk away, but
Speaker 2: Munch and Finn are already in the basement waiting there
Speaker 2: with a warrant, and Michelle Monahan is standing behind them,
Speaker 2: and the blonde girl says, you bitch. So we're in
Speaker 2: cement room bars Benson and Stable are taking her on.
Speaker 2: Benson like, well, Jody, prison is no sorority, but the
Speaker 2: bright side is you might still be young enough to
Speaker 2: have kids when you get out.
Speaker 4: What a retro dig this girl.
Speaker 2: This girl is giving Ari Grainer in the episode Damaged
Speaker 2: very like, you don't scare me, like, I am not
Speaker 2: intimidated here. So they have enough evidence to put her
Speaker 2: into prison, so like she should be a little bit worried,
Speaker 2: and she goes, my father would never let that happen.
Speaker 2: But they're like, Babe, your fingerprints actually on the eye dropper.
Speaker 2: And then Benson tries to level with her and goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I was in a sorority. I understand sisterhood. But test
Speaker 2: sold you out so it doesn't really matter. And she
Speaker 2: says no, and it's like she made that phone call
Speaker 2: that put you in the basement, So tell us the
Speaker 2: truth or not, we don't care. They go, we know
Speaker 2: she hated Joe, not you, and she says, oh, you
Speaker 2: don't know, Tess. If she did that to Kelly, what
Speaker 2: would she And then the lawyer like knocks knocks, you're
Speaker 2: done talking to her and this guy, James Woodrow was
Speaker 2: a very old money vibes, and we learned that her
Speaker 2: father is a justice, so it's like Justice Tom Wilson's
Speaker 2: not gonna love this. So Benson and Stabler walk out
Speaker 2: defeated and cabits relaxed and confident, like at least we
Speaker 2: got them on possession possibly rape three. Then Munch walks
Speaker 2: in with bad news. The semen does not match Joe
Speaker 2: or Hank, and then what about the clap? And then
Speaker 2: Munch's rifling through the papers and is like, wait, remember
Speaker 2: that scarf we found in the bushes. There were actually
Speaker 2: two hair fibers on the scarf. One belongs to Kelly
Speaker 2: and the other does match the semen. So we have like,
Speaker 2: I think she was raped by two people that night.
Speaker 2: I think it's like Joe gave her the clap. And
Speaker 2: then we have this other person with the semen and
Speaker 2: the hair. So Stable and Benson meet her on campus.
Speaker 2: They show her the scarf and they're like, hey, like,
Speaker 2: do you know about the scarf? Who's scarf? Is this
Speaker 2: what's going on? And she's trying and then something clicks
Speaker 2: in her brain. So basically this scarf had fish on it.
Speaker 2: And then it's like the nick so it's like wall eyes,
Speaker 2: walle eyes are all over it, and Wally so Wally
Speaker 2: as this fish scarf that it's you know, you mightn't.
Speaker 4: I don't really wow, I didn't even pick that up.
Speaker 4: It is a stretch. It's a stretch, not a bright move.
Speaker 2: Giving like Kelly the scarf, and Benson goes, oh, did
Speaker 2: she steal it? She probably stole it high and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: most have and they're like from where He's saying like, oh,
Speaker 2: he doesn't know where the closer key, like he doesn't
Speaker 2: know what's going on. He's trying to act dumb again,
Speaker 2: do this little game. And they're like, well, you already
Speaker 2: said you were in Joe's room, so like, what did
Speaker 2: you do Later He's like, yeah, no, I told you
Speaker 2: I studied and they're like, but you found Kelly alone.
Speaker 4: What'd you do then?
Speaker 2: And he sticks to his OG's story of like offering
Speaker 2: to walk her home her leaving without him, but he
Speaker 2: looks nervous, and that's before they even tell him that
Speaker 2: the semen and hair match him, and then Stabler's like, well,
Speaker 2: why are you lying? And it's like the dumbest question
Speaker 2: of all time, It's like, obviously to get away with
Speaker 2: a crime, Like what do you mean, why is he lying?
Speaker 2: He's in police investigation, like why aren't you giving us
Speaker 2: all the evidence? But he does start to spill finally
Speaker 2: that she was just sitting there. She looks sad. I
Speaker 2: took her to my room. I brushed her hair back
Speaker 2: from her face. For the first time, she looked at
Speaker 2: me like she actually saw me. We sat on the
Speaker 2: bed and talked, she kissed me, and then the rest
Speaker 2: just happened. And he did not know that she was drugged.
Speaker 2: He thought she wanted to be with him. So then
Speaker 2: it's like and then I'm just annoyed, like why nothing
Speaker 2: is ever easy at sv you like nothing ever. So
Speaker 2: now we're in Craigan's office and Kab it's like it
Speaker 2: does not matter if he knew or didn't know about
Speaker 2: the drugs, Like there's no deal, and we have all
Speaker 2: the DNA evidence that we need, and Stabler's defending him,
Speaker 2: like we're gonna ruin this kid's life because he misread signals.
Speaker 2: And she goes, if we give him a deal, we
Speaker 2: send mixed signals to the grand jury. You can't indict
Speaker 2: these sorority girls and not offer up the rapist. And
Speaker 2: this is very like the episode intent, like a lot
Speaker 2: of steps need to happen to like get who did
Speaker 2: something wrong. So if we also want to get Joe
Speaker 2: on the rape, like we need to get the girls
Speaker 2: and we need to get this guy, and we need
Speaker 2: to like put all this together. And she goes, maybe
Speaker 2: if Wally helps, I can lower his charge, but like,
Speaker 2: I'm not giving him a deal, and I can't believe
Speaker 2: there's so gung ho about giving this guy a deal.
Speaker 2: But they need to put Joe away. So we're at
Speaker 2: the grand jury. Kelly's there, She's getting pumped up by Marishka.
Speaker 2: She's so scared, she's confused that she's doing the right thing,
Speaker 2: and you know, Benson's yeah, helping her out.
Speaker 4: She sees one of the guys.
Speaker 2: She's stressed, you know, she doesn't like it, but she's
Speaker 2: on the stand and then we and it's kind of
Speaker 2: like a quick scene of like Kelly's on the stand
Speaker 2: and the CSU texts on the stand and he talks
Speaker 2: about amnesia being a side effect, so we need that
Speaker 2: so the grand jury understands why the memory loss. Stabler's
Speaker 2: then on the stand, we have a Michelle Monaghan. Now
Speaker 2: we have a Hank the medical examiner. I mean it's
Speaker 2: really a hoozoo. It's like an SNL sketch where each
Speaker 2: each person has to get their impression in.
Speaker 4: So the medical examiner Beard Man.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so this is what happens where I guess
Speaker 2: this is where we learned about like Wally does not
Speaker 2: have the clap, so, like I said, like the claps
Speaker 2: from Joe stemens from Wally, both of them like disgusting
Speaker 2: is now on the stand. They found her underwear behind
Speaker 2: his headboard. And then now Cabit sating lunch in the
Speaker 2: office and she has tough news. Wally's going to testify
Speaker 2: to the grand jury, and they kind of find that weird.
Speaker 2: But they're saying, like the lawyer wouldn't do that if
Speaker 2: they didn't have a reason, and could and like she
Speaker 2: keep and Cabot needs to get the answer, like could
Speaker 2: anything have happened to make Wally think there's consent? Like
Speaker 2: anything before that night? So they're talking to Kelly, They're like,
Speaker 2: did you ever flirt with him? She goes no, and
Speaker 2: then goes, well maybe they had a couple classes together,
Speaker 2: and she goes that he was a whiz on the classics,
Speaker 2: and so she invited him for coffee to get some
Speaker 2: educational scoop and you know that might be enough Ammo
Speaker 2: to plead innocent.
Speaker 4: Like that is so crazy the way the world works.
Speaker 2: So like, because you have coffee over books with a
Speaker 2: guy that's consent to sex, like I just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I mean, like logically, Like I just don't
Speaker 2: understand how any of these things are valid or accepted
Speaker 2: or even like tried.
Speaker 4: I don't understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she wanted to study with a guy, that
Speaker 2: means that she must have wanted a fuck day like
Speaker 2: days later.
Speaker 4: I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like crazy, like that could work in a court,
Speaker 2: like for a grand jury.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like the whole thing we just posted about,
Speaker 1: this thing called Denham Day that's like based on a
Speaker 1: case in Italy where it's like a guy got off
Speaker 1: and that's in Italy, but because a woman was wearing
Speaker 1: tight jeans, that was her consent, was the tight jeans,
Speaker 1: like you know, so of course sitting down with them
Speaker 1: for a cup of coffee and a conversation that's basically
Speaker 1: a green light do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: Like gross, Yeah, so he's on the stand and he
Speaker 2: keeps being like, I didn't know she was drugged. I
Speaker 2: swear I didn't know. But Kebit's about to get his ass.
Speaker 2: She goes, you saw vomit on the floor. He says, yes,
Speaker 2: you saw her disheveled appearance. He says, yes, matted hair,
Speaker 2: watery eyes, Yes, yes, And you still didn't know that
Speaker 2: she was under the influence. And he's like, I just
Speaker 2: thought she was tired, and Cabbot goes, oh, really, you
Speaker 2: thought she was tired, and he admits, like, well, an upset.
Speaker 2: She looked sad, so Cabot goes, and you took that
Speaker 2: as an invite to have sex her being sad and tired?
Speaker 4: Like what?
Speaker 2: And he starts scuttering a little, and Cabbot pushes, did
Speaker 2: she say she wanted to have sex with you?
Speaker 4: He says, she flirted with me?
Speaker 2: She asks when he says, in class and at the
Speaker 2: coffee shop, and Cabbot goes, okay, did she say she
Speaker 2: wanted to have sex with you? Then he says no.
Speaker 2: Then asked, did she say she wanted to have sex
Speaker 2: with you the night you took her into your room?
Speaker 2: He says she didn't have to, and Cabot goes, well,
Speaker 2: I'll take that as a nome. What do you mean
Speaker 2: she didn't have to What do you mean she didn't
Speaker 2: have to like what He's like, Well, she kissed me,
Speaker 2: and Cabbot goes, okay, so you took that as a
Speaker 2: green light to do whatever you wanted. He goes, well, no,
Speaker 2: I never said, and she goes, so there's vomit, her
Speaker 2: hair is matt her eyes are blurry. And you still
Speaker 2: thought she wanted to fuck? And he says yes, and
Speaker 2: she says, I guess it was your lucky night, and
Speaker 2: he licks his lips looks off. Benson and Cabitt are
Speaker 2: on a bench waiting outside of the courtroom. Cabbot gets
Speaker 2: given a paper and this obviously reminds me of my
Speaker 2: failed audition as a process server from many years ago,
Speaker 2: where it is a simple job and I couldn't I
Speaker 2: couldn't hand the paper over.
Speaker 1: Okay, so so humiliating to get a shirt out of it.
Speaker 2: They were like, you could just please leave. So anyways,
Speaker 2: enough about my failed audition. So Cabbitt get gets given
Speaker 2: a paper, she hands it to Benson and then like
Speaker 2: music starts to play, so we know it's not going
Speaker 2: to be positive. So they're down to indict the girls
Speaker 2: on charges, but not the boys, like I. So the
Speaker 2: girls get in trouble for drugging the girl, but the
Speaker 2: boys don't get in trouble for raping the girl. I
Speaker 2: don't she never consented, And this is why men want
Speaker 2: to get rid of consent.
Speaker 4: Like what the fuck that all? With all that evidence?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's like for for like men in charge,
Speaker 1: it's like, well they had drugs.
Speaker 4: We've got a war on drugs, so it's for them,
Speaker 4: it's the drugs. Why Also, no, I also think it
Speaker 4: was seen as an excuse for her.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, the boys didn't know that she was drugged,
Speaker 2: and it's like, but they knew she was wasted, blacked
Speaker 2: out beyond belief, even if she they didn't know about
Speaker 2: the JHB. It's just like it's so fucked up. So anyways,
Speaker 2: Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her
Speaker 2: the news, but is wearing a beret?
Speaker 4: Not the time for a silly hat? Benson, what are
Speaker 4: you doing? I knew.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't wait to hear Lisa's take
Speaker 1: on this fucking hat wear.
Speaker 4: This is wild.
Speaker 2: You're about to tell a girl she'll never see justice
Speaker 2: for her double rape and she and her friends drugged
Speaker 2: her to get raped, and.
Speaker 1: She's like, I'll put on them around a jaunty chapeau.
Speaker 2: But the grand jury was split on the issue of
Speaker 2: consent whatever, but the dean did expel them, and she says, well,
Speaker 2: it hardly seems worth it, and Benson goes, you did
Speaker 2: the right thing. But she also never took the abortion pills.
Speaker 2: What if she's pregnant, and ben'son goes, I'm not the
Speaker 2: right person to ask talk to someone else, kid, and
Speaker 2: so she also Kelly is like, I haven't even told
Speaker 2: my parents yet, and Benson goes, well, it might be
Speaker 2: a good time now, and then Kelly walks off in
Speaker 2: the like most ambiguous weird ending.
Speaker 1: Ugh. Wait, so I'm still having watched this episode several times.
Speaker 1: What's the order of events? Like did the bat did
Speaker 1: the gonorrhea guy attack her first?
Speaker 2: And then yeah, I think what happened was, you know,
Speaker 2: like he threw a blanket at his friend and goes like,
Speaker 2: go sleep on the floor. I'm about to hit a
Speaker 2: home run, and I think he raped her while she
Speaker 2: was like pretty fucked up, and then did go downstairs
Speaker 2: to sleep on the couch for an alibi, and that's
Speaker 2: when Wally saw the boys both on the couch and
Speaker 2: went and took his shot with her in the room.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, that's the order of operations fucked up.
Speaker 1: We need to teach a men and boys to be better.
Speaker 4: It's bad.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the real cases. Well, the first case
Speaker 1: that I was going to talk about is just the
Speaker 1: Hillary farious case, and this is actually just about the GHB.
Speaker 1: Like Hillary, Farius was a seventeen year old high school
Speaker 1: student in Laporte, Texas. She didn't even drink, she didn't
Speaker 1: even party. She was a varsity volleyball player. She was
Speaker 1: out with her friends. This is August third of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six. She's at a teen dance club and when
Speaker 1: she gets home, she's nauseous, she has a horrible headache,
Speaker 1: and then she's found on August fourth, not breathing and
Speaker 1: nonresponsive and she died. And initially they couldn't explain her
Speaker 1: death because her talk screen didn't show any drugs or
Speaker 1: any alcohol. But after authorities kind of found out about
Speaker 1: this club drug called gamma hydroxybed tyrate. And I hope
Speaker 1: I'm saying that the right way, that's GHB. They tested
Speaker 1: her for it and that's when they found it. So
Speaker 1: all she drank that night was soda and she was
Speaker 1: obviously slipped the drug, which is known on the streets
Speaker 1: as liquid X or easy lay. It has like a
Speaker 1: million other different street names, but those are a couple,
Speaker 1: and it's basically I found out that GHB can be
Speaker 1: made easily with rudimentary knowledge of chemistry, and there are
Speaker 1: instructions for how to make it online, So that's essentially
Speaker 1: what happened with these two girlies.
Speaker 4: It's odorless, it's nearly tasteless.
Speaker 1: It's got like a little bit of a salty taste,
Speaker 1: but if you're having a margarita or something, you probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't taste it. It depresses the respiratory system fast, especially
Speaker 1: when alcohol is also involved, and not enough oxygen gets
Speaker 1: to the brain, which causes the memory loss and slipping
Speaker 1: in and out of consciousness. And it's a really really
Speaker 1: fine line between the dosage to knock someone out and
Speaker 1: the dosage to kill someone. Then there was another girl
Speaker 1: named Samantha Reid who was a fifteen year old girl
Speaker 1: who was drugged with GHB and her soda as well,
Speaker 1: and died. So in nineteen ninety eight, Representative Sheila Jack
Speaker 1: and Lee of Texas introduced a bill called the Hillary J.
Speaker 1: Farrius and Samanthai Date Rape Drug Prohibition Act, which eventually
Speaker 1: was signed into law by Bill Clinton in two thousand,
Speaker 1: which made gh BE illegal, and it also made it
Speaker 1: easier to apprehend drug producers who were making drugs that
Speaker 1: were just like GHB, but just like a little bit off,
Speaker 1: like they would change the chemistry, make up a little
Speaker 1: bit of it so that it was not actually GHB
Speaker 1: but does the exact same thing. But now this bill
Speaker 1: encompasses all GHB, you know, everything in the GHB family essentially,
Speaker 1: and because these dealers were getting away with it, and
Speaker 1: so now it expanded the definition of what GHB was
Speaker 1: to include similar drugs, and it also encouraged education programs
Speaker 1: about date rape substances. But I don't think in either case.
Speaker 1: I literally found the oldest website that Hillary's family set
Speaker 1: up for her, like truly like one of the first
Speaker 1: websites you've ever seen that had like music plays, and
Speaker 1: it's like a high school picture of her, and like
Speaker 1: the links are all overlapping each other because it's like
Speaker 1: old e HTML like this is just like a poor
Speaker 1: girl who's like life was just totally cut short and
Speaker 1: she wasn't dating drink.
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think they found out in either of these
Speaker 1: cases what happened. I really looked if anyone has any
Speaker 1: other information, let me know. But in these cases I
Speaker 1: tried to find if anybody was charged for them, and
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone was, so it just became like
Speaker 1: more of a and there was no sexual assault in
Speaker 1: either of these cases.
Speaker 4: They was just GHB deaths.
Speaker 1: So that's like a little bit about just the GHB
Speaker 1: and that happened, like this bill went into was signed
Speaker 1: in two thousand and then this episode came out in
Speaker 1: oh one.
Speaker 4: So obviously GHB is making.
Speaker 1: The rounds and that's like how it gets probably to
Speaker 1: the writers, and you know, we know Neil Behars got
Speaker 1: his finger on the pulse. So the case that this
Speaker 1: is most likely the most based on. There were a
Speaker 1: couple of others listed on the internet when you look
Speaker 1: around on what stuff's based on, and one was the
Speaker 1: Alex Kelly case, which I would love to cover because
Speaker 1: that is a rapist from Connecticut who escaped to Europe
Speaker 1: and his parents supported him while he was a fugitive
Speaker 1: in Europe, and that was the case of my youth.
Speaker 1: Like when I was growing up, everybody was always like
Speaker 1: out like this is disgusting. But at our hockey games
Speaker 1: against those teams, against the team of the town where
Speaker 1: he's from, people would chant Alex Kelly's name like this
Speaker 1: was like a big part of our lives was that
Speaker 1: this town next to my town had this rapist who
Speaker 1: was on the lamb and the entitlement and of parents
Speaker 1: supporting their kid who's done these crimes but won't let
Speaker 1: him stand trial and are supporting him in Switzerland while
Speaker 1: he's skis. I'd love to cover that trial, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it has anything to do with this case.
Speaker 1: So this episode seems most based on the case of
Speaker 1: Sarah Kline and Adam Lack. In February of nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: Sarah Klein is a freshman at Brown University in Providence,
Speaker 1: Rhode Island. One of my best friends went there at
Speaker 1: Ivy League school. Was she was drinking with a bunch
Speaker 1: of friends before hitting a fraternity party at Delta Tau.
Speaker 1: And this case actually doesn't really have anything to do
Speaker 1: with the GHP it's more of the consent issue. So
Speaker 1: I think that the writers at this time were like
Speaker 1: merging these two issues of like GHB is everywhere and
Speaker 1: also when does consent come into play? So there's no
Speaker 1: drugging in this episode that I know of. But Kleine
Speaker 1: later admitted to drinking as many as ten shots before
Speaker 1: heading to the party, so she was drinking. Later that evening,
Speaker 1: a junior named Adam Lack found Klein having just thrown up.
Speaker 1: He claimed he offered her water and that she walked
Speaker 1: unassisted to his room, where she initiated sexual contact. And
Speaker 1: he later said also he had no idea she was drunk,
Speaker 1: and it's like if someone you find someone next to
Speaker 1: a pile of vomit, like let's just immediately go with
Speaker 1: Like she didn't just have some bad shrimp, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you're a college she did, leave her alone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: leave her alone. Anyone who just threw up does not
Speaker 1: want to have sex. Probably. Lack said that they talked
Speaker 1: and they smoked cigarettes for hours. When they woke up
Speaker 1: in the morning, they exchanged numbers. He walked her back
Speaker 1: to her dorm room. He called her a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: They eventually talked on the phone and he told her, yeah,
Speaker 1: like we had sex, and she said, did you use
Speaker 1: a condom?
Speaker 4: And he said yes.
Speaker 1: She had no memory of anything happening after getting to
Speaker 1: the party. So then five weeks go by and Klein
Speaker 1: files a complaint with the Office of Student Life in
Speaker 1: March of nineteen ninety six, accusing lack of sexual misconduct.
Speaker 1: No criminal charges were ever filed, like probably after five
Speaker 1: weeks there wasn't physical evidence, and you know that would
Speaker 1: have been even a tough case for Olivia Benson and
Speaker 1: Elliott Stabler to make happen that five weeks have gone by,
Speaker 1: But she did go to the University Disciplinary Committee the
Speaker 1: UDC they call it, which is an internal board made
Speaker 1: up of students and staff. Just like in the episode,
Speaker 1: she claimed she remembered nothing about the evening and therefore
Speaker 1: was too intoxicated to consent. Lack was like, Klein is
Speaker 1: the one that initiated the sexual piece.
Speaker 4: I had no clue she was drunk.
Speaker 1: And this case pretty much consumed Brown University and eventually
Speaker 1: became part of a wider cultural firestorm about political correctness
Speaker 1: backlash against feminism. The concept of gray rape eventually gets introduced,
Speaker 1: and what the university and what The Brown Daily Harold
Speaker 1: called a case of he said, she can't remember. So
Speaker 1: there's all this stuff going on at this time, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm in college, you're in high school.
Speaker 1: It's like I remember feeling like, oh, yeah, it's okay
Speaker 1: for girls to hook up, like you can be you.
Speaker 4: Know, but you definitely don't want to be called a slut.
Speaker 1: Like there's definitely this thing where women's empowerment is growing
Speaker 1: and women are feeling more empowered to be sexual. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, think about Sex and the City starts in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, right, Like, Samantha's this major character who's
Speaker 1: going after what she wants and sleeps with whoever she
Speaker 1: wants and is after her own pursuit of pleasure. And
Speaker 1: that's like a revolutionary character in nineteen ninety nine, right
Speaker 1: two years before this episode comes out.
Speaker 4: So after this.
Speaker 1: Episode, which I always think this shows a little bit
Speaker 1: ahead of its time, into that. Around two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: a Washington Post journalist named Laura session Stepp wrote an
Speaker 1: article about Gray and I don't think it's the first
Speaker 1: time it's been used, but this is a pop Like
Speaker 1: Cosmopolitan wrote an article about it, like there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of this is a big time for okay, like women
Speaker 1: are allowed to initiate sexual contact more and we're not
Speaker 1: going to judge women for being sexual, but then also
Speaker 1: we're still blaming them for getting into situations where they
Speaker 1: could be sexually assaulted. So it's really it's like this
Speaker 1: is a time where this conversation is happening in the
Speaker 1: culture everywhere, and everyone's talking about well political correctness. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, so she wore a skirt and went on
Speaker 1: the date, and they had dinner, and she had a
Speaker 1: bunch of drinks and she started making out with him,
Speaker 1: and then it's like there was no concept of this,
Speaker 1: like you can say no whenever you want. That we
Speaker 1: that we are trying to have today. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's widespread, but we're trying to say you can
Speaker 1: be in the middle of something and say stop, and
Speaker 1: it should end that this was not happening back in
Speaker 1: these these days. So this woman, Laura session Step writes
Speaker 1: this article about gray rape and highlights incidents where both
Speaker 1: parties are very intoxicated and says the line of consent
Speaker 1: is gray.
Speaker 4: Caused a huge stir.
Speaker 1: I read this New York Times article about it, which
Speaker 1: I will obviously link to in my show notes. But
Speaker 1: they spoke to Chitra Ragavon, who is a psychologist at
Speaker 1: John Jay College of Criminal Justice, which is in the
Speaker 1: city and is a College of Criminal Justice. She conducts
Speaker 1: research on intimate partner violence and rape, and she disagreed
Speaker 1: with what the article said because the article was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: now it's a modern society where it's acceptable for women
Speaker 1: to pursue casual sex. She says, I would respectfully disagree
Speaker 1: that women have been sexually empowered to hook up. What's
Speaker 1: happened is that women are not legislated anymore. There's a
Speaker 1: huge difference for it to be legal for women to
Speaker 1: pursue sex and for it to be socially acceptable for
Speaker 1: women to pursue sex. So as much as we're saying you, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a free woman, it's the nineties, it's the two thousands.
Speaker 1: Go out and get what you want. Like we're still
Speaker 1: socially going, but you're kind of responsible for men's sexualis.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There was like a thing in Russia a long time
Speaker 2: ago where it was like maybe there was a sexual revolution,
Speaker 2: but there was an a feminist.
Speaker 1: Revolution, and so right, right, yeah, it doesn't really help, so,
Speaker 1: she says. Ragavaan says to The New York Times that
Speaker 1: many studies have shown that rapes often do not involve
Speaker 1: physical violence or coercion because the mere threat or potential
Speaker 1: for physical harm is enough to make victims submit. She
Speaker 1: also says, quote studies have shown that women's sexual interactions
Speaker 1: do not change appreciably if they have been drinking, and
Speaker 1: that serial rapists maintain inaccurately, of course, that their victims
Speaker 1: did not resist and in fact wanted to be raped.
Speaker 1: She says, the discussion of alcohol is quote endemic of
Speaker 1: how we blame women, saying that such blame could lead
Speaker 1: to a viewpoint like women hook up, get drunk and
Speaker 1: then say they don't want sex, tell them to cross
Speaker 1: their legs and put on a chastity belt. She says, So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's really interesting that it's like, well,
Speaker 1: we were all.
Speaker 4: Drinking and it's like okay, but.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't know, if you're drunk enough and you
Speaker 1: can say no, then guy should be able to be
Speaker 1: even if he's drunk, to be like oh okay, I
Speaker 1: should stop. I don't know, like it's where we kind
Speaker 1: of put a lot of that on women.
Speaker 2: Well, we use alcohol to excuse men's behavior, and we
Speaker 2: use it to like indict women for theirs.
Speaker 1: Yes, and exactly exactly, and we encour men are encouraged
Speaker 1: to give women alcohol to make them more ap pliable,
Speaker 1: to make them do things that they want.
Speaker 2: You know, and then blame you for it. Then it's like, ah,
Speaker 2: we gotta buy women drinks. Yeah, it's like you're trying
Speaker 2: to make them fuck you. Like why are you acting
Speaker 2: like it's you know, they talk about girls girls?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like remember remember how prevalent ladies drink free used
Speaker 1: to be. I mean, I don't really think that's a
Speaker 1: thing that much anymore, but it used to be like
Speaker 1: girl ladies drink free and like that. Like in this article,
Speaker 1: there's a profess, there's a a professional person who.
Speaker 4: Says, like, I feel like that's a date rape drug.
Speaker 1: Even saying ladies drink free, it's like you're just setting
Speaker 1: up this culture of like, well then and then her
Speaker 1: consent is gone and we can't really no one can
Speaker 1: be blamed for anything again.
Speaker 2: It's all the responsibility is still on the woman to
Speaker 2: make sure the men don't attack. And it's like, what
Speaker 2: just punish all the men more like, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, it hasn't worked right, Like, I just don't
Speaker 2: understand why it's still on us. I cover your drinks
Speaker 2: and do this and don't do that, and pay attention
Speaker 2: and it's never like make sure your friends aren't rapists?
Speaker 4: Wow, make sure that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make sure that when you're having sexual interaction with
Speaker 1: a woman, she's having fun. Yeah, she's not passing in
Speaker 1: and out her eyes like totally, she's not asleep, you know, yes.
Speaker 2: And that's annoying to them. That's feminism gone too far,
Speaker 2: the pendulum. What do you mean women should have fun
Speaker 2: during fuck you know or want it. It's like it
Speaker 2: just seems like such a basic kind of knowledge. But whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, I'm even though this article came out
Speaker 1: after the episode, I do think this is like part
Speaker 1: it's informative of the entire cultural of what's happening, especially
Speaker 1: on college campuses at this time.
Speaker 4: And like, as we all know very well.
Speaker 1: That's been true for decades that rape is one of
Speaker 1: the crimes least likely to be falsely reported and most
Speaker 1: likely to convict perpetrators. So it's not it's like there
Speaker 1: are not women are not waking up going Oh, I
Speaker 1: really wish i'd eno have sex with that guy. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll start a multi year court process that's going to
Speaker 1: drag me and my family and ruin my entire life
Speaker 1: through court proceedings. Like that's not really something women are
Speaker 1: doing for kicks, Okay, So anyway, because we all know
Speaker 1: how hard these crimes are. For this reason, a lot
Speaker 1: of college students do choose to have their cases adjudicated
Speaker 1: within the confines of their school. I think what so
Speaker 1: many girls just want to have happen is like, kick
Speaker 1: him out, just let me keep going to school and
Speaker 1: I don't have to face this guy every day. And
Speaker 1: so many of these schools won't even fucking do that,
Speaker 1: Like they're just like, I mean, okay, so I'll keep
Speaker 1: going with the client in lack case like. It also
Speaker 1: highlights these the way educational institutions adjudicate cases internally, even
Speaker 1: when criminality is involved, the way that we're talking about here,
Speaker 1: Like it was my understanding at my school when I
Speaker 1: was on this like board to do this, which I
Speaker 1: can't evenber what it was called, but it was because
Speaker 1: I was on student government and then I was nominated
Speaker 1: to this board.
Speaker 4: It was for non criminal stuff. Pretty much.
Speaker 1: And so anything criminal would go to campus safety and
Speaker 1: they would go to the Hartford Police department. Because I
Speaker 1: went to college in Hertford, Conneticut, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't think that happened a lot, you know. I think
Speaker 1: people would just say, oh, I don't want to press chargers,
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to campus safety. But these
Speaker 1: inner school things are very common. After the case was
Speaker 1: heard by the UDC at Brown, they found Lack guilty
Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct and he was given a one semester suspension,
Speaker 1: much like what you heard the swimmer talk about how
Speaker 1: he the guy just got one semester. But then Lack
Speaker 1: appealed to this decision and Brown provosts James Pomerantz reduced
Speaker 1: the charge against him to quote flagrant disrespect.
Speaker 4: So that's the charge.
Speaker 1: He was charged with flagrant disrespect, and instead of the suspension,
Speaker 1: his punishment was lessened to a two semester probation. So
Speaker 1: obviously the campus is deeply divided at this time, like
Speaker 1: one side believes this guy's a rapist and the other
Speaker 1: thinks that he is a victim of campus feminism run amok,
Speaker 1: you know, like this is too far, you know, And
Speaker 1: in January of nineteen ninety seven, Uh, twenty twenties, John
Speaker 1: Stossel came to Brown to report.
Speaker 2: Famous sash that was a big mustache of my life, I.
Speaker 1: Would say, as John John Stossel, Yeah, but you're not
Speaker 1: gonna like this mustache much anymore.
Speaker 4: You're not like what he does. Rape that's crazy.
Speaker 1: He's just like he basically comes to the school and
Speaker 1: he's like, look, I just want to know for me,
Speaker 1: rape is rape, like and like, to me, rape is
Speaker 1: a man forcing a woman, like with a gun or
Speaker 1: a knife, and like he sees no, you know, quote
Speaker 1: unquote gray area in any of that like that, there's
Speaker 1: ways that you can have a power imbalance with someone.
Speaker 1: There's ways that you can just be a physically So
Speaker 1: to him, it's only rape if there's a gun or
Speaker 1: a weapon or something and they feel physically threatened. And
Speaker 1: and he literally showed up at this place and there
Speaker 1: was a protest going on, Like they knew twenty twenty
Speaker 1: was coming, so they obviously there was a group at
Speaker 1: the There was a group there and I think the
Speaker 1: it was like Citizens Against Sexual Abuse or something like that.
Speaker 1: But CISA is like the name of this group on campus,
Speaker 1: and they stage a protest. They're like, we want to
Speaker 1: let twenty twenty know that we're serious about women's you know,
Speaker 1: women being protected on this campus. And he goes up
Speaker 1: to the protesters and he's like, okay, so let's talk
Speaker 1: about this. I feel like we have a different definition
Speaker 1: of rape, Like.
Speaker 4: What do you think?
Speaker 1: And they like start and he's like, I think it's
Speaker 1: gun point, knife point and they're like, bitch, how old
Speaker 1: are you? And then in March of nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: his piece airs and it's very biased against women against feminism.
Speaker 1: The crux of this piece was that feminists at the
Speaker 1: school were quote authoritarian and unwilling to accept critiques of
Speaker 1: their women as victims mentality end quote. This was from
Speaker 1: the Brown Daily Herald, which is the student newspaper where
Speaker 1: I got most of this information. I think much like this,
Speaker 1: much like the criminal proceedings of this, It was all
Speaker 1: handled in school. The press even is mostly from a
Speaker 1: school newspaper. But the school newspaper seems very like not biased,
Speaker 1: and actually they seem more biased towards the victim in this,
Speaker 1: which is kind of refreshing because now we've got the
Speaker 1: guy on twenty twenty being like these feminists are popping off.
Speaker 1: And the piece was called when Yes Means No, and
Speaker 1: it included footage of angry students, including Sarah Kline the
Speaker 1: victim screaming. So he obviously tried to just, you know,
Speaker 1: depict these women as like hysterical man hating feminists that
Speaker 1: are just trying to stretch the definition of rape beyond recognition.
Speaker 1: And he says in his piece, there is something of
Speaker 1: an authoritarian atmosphere surrounding women's issues on this campus. And
Speaker 1: I just love that this guy is so threatened by
Speaker 1: women standing up for anything that he's like pretty authoritarian.
Speaker 1: No one else is allowed to get a word in Edgeway.
Speaker 1: It's like you should kind of understand or authoritarianism if
Speaker 1: you're a reporter for twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: I don't think this is well, it's an example like that.
Speaker 2: This happens often where dudes will be like quit being
Speaker 2: a victim, and it's like mostly women like talking about
Speaker 2: maybe human trafficking, sexual assault, domestic violence, but men complain
Speaker 2: about such minor things Like I remember being on a
Speaker 2: podcast I was this was a long time ago.
Speaker 4: I was on Nick to.
Speaker 2: Depolo's and like we were arguing and he was someone
Speaker 2: called and was like, God, this girl just keeps on bitching.
Speaker 2: And I was truly talking about black people being murdered
Speaker 2: by the cops, and he was complaining about how it's
Speaker 2: like the decline of it's like making fun of masculinity
Speaker 2: because all the husbands on television aren't masculine, and that
Speaker 2: was his big argument throughout it all, and I go,
Speaker 2: that's your biggest complaint, Like that's the thing. I feel
Speaker 2: like men complain about so much less, where it's like, well,
Speaker 2: what do you mean?
Speaker 4: And it's like it's not even violence against you.
Speaker 2: It's like you know what I mean, Like you're acting
Speaker 2: like women are acting like victims as they're murdered all
Speaker 2: the time and like violence, and it's like, what are
Speaker 2: you really complaining about? John Stossel, Yeah, what is what
Speaker 2: is this big authoritative thing that's impeding on your right
Speaker 2: and harming your safety? Like they they victimized themselves for
Speaker 2: so much less. I guess that's the I finally got
Speaker 2: to my point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, I mean they're just scared that they're
Speaker 1: gonna be now held accountable for their actions, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's like uh oh, or now we're now we're
Speaker 1: expanding the definition. It's not just knife at knife point
Speaker 1: or gunpoint. Where will it end? So opinions in this
Speaker 1: case are swinging wildly from this guy's being lynched by
Speaker 1: a feminist mob to these like we're simply trying to
Speaker 1: make this campus safer for women, and I think all
Speaker 1: campuses could be safer for women. It's like, I just
Speaker 1: saw this video today and I saw you liked it,
Speaker 1: so I think you've seen it too, unless you had
Speaker 1: a thumb.
Speaker 2: I've been really I think on my phone too much
Speaker 2: because people have been saying me screenshots, being like you've
Speaker 2: already liked it, and I got yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: Well, like my Instagram knows that we are connected and
Speaker 1: gives me a lot of stuff that you you know,
Speaker 1: I was I had a tailor swept in my homepage
Speaker 1: for a really long time and I don't follow her or.
Speaker 2: You know, but he's just been hitt and she was
Speaker 2: finally seen on Mother's Dan Philly.
Speaker 4: But it's like cheez, we went a long time without anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard, But it was this guy who's like
Speaker 1: a therapist talking about how like women are like starving
Speaker 1: for men to be more vulnerable and caring. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about this guy who kind of
Speaker 1: looks like a rolling stone and he's like yeah, he's
Speaker 1: like he's just like, we're beating the vulnerability out of
Speaker 1: these men in an attempt to make them masculine, when
Speaker 1: that's the vulnerability is truly like what most women want
Speaker 1: out of them. And it was like it was an
Speaker 1: interesting just put that plainly, like I you know, I
Speaker 1: hadn't really heard that, And I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of the time it's like.
Speaker 2: Well, because they listen to one of the men want
Speaker 2: and they're trying to impress other men. And I think
Speaker 2: that's where all this confusion of masculinity and what women
Speaker 2: want comes from, because they won't even like bect women
Speaker 2: enough to listen to what they want. But I think
Speaker 2: there's women who want like an outdated version of masculinity too.
Speaker 2: But it is just like stop trying to impress your bros.
Speaker 2: And just like cry with your girlfriend you fucking weirdo?
Speaker 2: Yeah or not?
Speaker 1: I don't know, And like, yeah, I just think we
Speaker 1: could also do more education, like with college freshmen about
Speaker 1: this stuff. Like there's always a really awkward like we
Speaker 1: called it a rape play in my school because it
Speaker 1: was like this really awkward group of like actors that
Speaker 1: came on to like do scenes about what it's and
Speaker 1: you're like, this isn't like what is this? You know?
Speaker 1: It's like there should be better ways to like educate
Speaker 1: young people about like this is what it's supposed to
Speaker 1: look like, this is what the interaction's supposed to be like,
Speaker 1: but like enthusiastic and set like what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, because if people's parents aren't telling them, then
Speaker 1: it's up to like institutions, and if you want to
Speaker 1: lower your fucking stats, then let's do it this way
Speaker 1: instead of with you know, obfuscating different crimes and giving
Speaker 1: people suspensions and YadA YadA, like, let's actually we just
Speaker 1: educate them and make it safer over backwards to protect
Speaker 1: these dudes from punishment instead of protecting the women, you know,
Speaker 1: their safety. Like I just don't get why the safety
Speaker 1: of women is not the priority or of people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's never that and not.
Speaker 2: Getting people in trouble, you know, because someone wants to
Speaker 2: work on Wall Street, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so crazy.
Speaker 1: So then I'm getting all my information from college newspapers.
Speaker 1: My next one is from Penn University of Pennsylvania's newspaper,
Speaker 1: famously School I wanted to go to didn't get into.
Speaker 1: They reported in nineteen ninety seven that Lack, the guy
Speaker 1: in this case, filed a complaint in US District Court
Speaker 1: charging Brown with charging the school, Brown with breach of contract, negligence,
Speaker 1: and gender discrimination, and he also charged the alleged victim,
Speaker 1: Sarah Kline, with libel. The complaint also accused of violating
Speaker 1: Title nine of the High Federal Higher Education Act by
Speaker 1: selectively enforcing its sexual misconduct and underage drinking policies. Like
Speaker 1: his lawyer was like, well, Klein admitted to drinking excessively
Speaker 1: the night of the incident, and that's a violation of
Speaker 1: your underage drinking policy.
Speaker 4: So why is there no action taken against her? And
Speaker 4: it's like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Anyway, in two thousand and seven, a confidential settlement was
Speaker 1: reached in the U. S District Court, filed by Adam
Speaker 1: Lack of from against Sarah Kline and Brown for libel
Speaker 1: Cline and reverse gender discrimination, breach of contract for Brown,
Speaker 1: and then so that's it. He settled with the US
Speaker 1: District Court in a very sketchy turn of events. The
Speaker 1: following year, July of two thousand and eight. Lack, who's
Speaker 1: thirty three years old at the time, now is at
Speaker 1: his home in his home state of Iowa, where his
Speaker 1: family has been engaged in a long time dispute with
Speaker 1: Mitchell County landowners over water runoff, which the Lack family
Speaker 1: claimed was an environmental hazard and bad for their farm.
Speaker 1: So he sees this Chevy Impala on his property, go
Speaker 1: to chase it. In chasing it, the Impala does something.
Speaker 1: He goes over the edge of the of the of
Speaker 1: a curve. His truck is upside down, he's pinned, but
Speaker 1: emergency services is called. They don't call for a long time,
Speaker 1: come for a long time, and he's found dead several
Speaker 1: hours later, and his family thinks it's a homicide. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot about it in this old Iowa cold
Speaker 1: case report that I linked to in my show notes,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to get too into it. But
Speaker 1: it's very sketchy. So the guy from that whole thing
Speaker 1: is dead. But whoa kind of wild right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, twisted,
Speaker 1: very cinematic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, a wild one. Thank you for doing that, Kara.
Speaker 4: Let's hop into our interview.
Speaker 1: Our guest today has worked on the big screen, the
Speaker 1: small screen, and the Broadway stage. You may know her
Speaker 1: best for her Emmy Award winning role as young Judy
Speaker 1: Garland in Life with Judy Garland, Me and My Shadows.
Speaker 1: She also starred in the films The Invitation and Into
Speaker 1: the Woods. But you know her today as the victim
Speaker 1: of so many crimes and wrongdoings. College student Kelly Delia.
Speaker 1: Please enjoy our wonderful chat with Tammy Blanchard.
Speaker 4: What a hello.
Speaker 1: We are thrill gosh, so nice to see you. I
Speaker 1: love your blonde hair. I know I wasn't expecting the blonde.
Speaker 7: I'm digging it. I just did a role.
Speaker 6: I've just did a role and she was blonde, so
Speaker 6: I went blonde, destroyed my hair.
Speaker 7: But it's sah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, are you having more fun?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 6: As I said, actually, wake up and I feel sunshine
Speaker 6: and I feel like sunshine.
Speaker 7: It's surrounding me. It's fucking we are.
Speaker 4: We left, of course, don't wait.
Speaker 7: You girls are like lawn order.
Speaker 1: And specific specifically Okay, wait now that was special victimsy
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 7: Okay, I mean them ver Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know it's asking a lot, you know, to give
Speaker 2: us all the scoop you can from twenty five years ago,
Speaker 2: but yeah, we.
Speaker 7: Want to think about that murder.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's so hard for us to usually get
Speaker 1: guests for the earlier season episodes. So I was so
Speaker 1: happy that you were down to do it because it's
Speaker 1: like it is, it was twenty four years ago, almost
Speaker 1: twenty five that you did this episode, but you're the
Speaker 1: main victim. This is the one where you're on the
Speaker 1: college campus and you've been drugged and attacked.
Speaker 6: And you know, I just had like a moment, like
Speaker 6: a moment of God forbid, because I have a seventeen
Speaker 6: year old daughter. No, my gosh, and I'm like, you're
Speaker 6: not going anywhere. So she doesn't drink, she doesn't do drugs,
Speaker 6: she doesn't do anything.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 6: I love her, she loves herself. Basically, that's what mothers
Speaker 6: have to do to have kids that don't do drugs
Speaker 6: and drink, love them and teach them to love themselves.
Speaker 6: It's scary you have to teach your kids. Like I'm
Speaker 6: throwing like dateline episodes on.
Speaker 4: Yeah you know what I mean, Like you should watch
Speaker 4: with her.
Speaker 7: She's alough, she watches all that stuff.
Speaker 8: Like I personally can't watch it because I know these
Speaker 8: people are making millions of dollars and I'm not. And
Speaker 8: also it's like like I could never get the lawyer
Speaker 8: cup doctor role, and I'm like, I don't know, the
Speaker 8: words just don't come out of my mouth easily, but.
Speaker 6: Like, yeah, Parked cardiovascular or we're gonna go get those
Speaker 6: facial wreck opera drop.
Speaker 7: So I'm usually like the guest star, but I went
Speaker 7: out for nine one one.
Speaker 4: No, what was that?
Speaker 7: Uh the Boston No? No, No, it's that guy still
Speaker 7: Who's the guy who runs these.
Speaker 2: Whoa He's I think he has twelve shows on air
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 4: He's still Kick.
Speaker 6: And I remember I think it was that one because
Speaker 6: I said all the Warren woes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw you've done.
Speaker 7: Now this is this a Mariska.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Maricia Maloney and Belser.
Speaker 7: I remember two things.
Speaker 6: I remember Mariska and what's his name Maloney?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Chris.
Speaker 7: I remember doing a scene with him, and I'm like great,
Speaker 7: like I'm new, you know.
Speaker 6: I think it's like my first really gig outside and
Speaker 6: Dying Light after Judy Garland. And I remember Mariska and
Speaker 6: Chris talking to me and I said something back, and
Speaker 6: then Mariska said something to me that just like sliced me,
Speaker 6: like I'm just like sarcastic cool, you know what I mean.
Speaker 6: She just said something like really something like that, and
Speaker 6: it just made me feel so stupid, and then they
Speaker 6: both smiled and laughed and like it was like I
Speaker 6: was so insecure, you know, And I just remember looking
Speaker 6: at her like, Damn, she's like so fucking cool and
Speaker 6: tough and like she's an act and like.
Speaker 4: Because is she?
Speaker 6: Because she's just so fucking cool and confident, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean, and beautiful. And then Chris was like
Speaker 6: just like really seemed so like normal, like not like big,
Speaker 6: like seemed like an ordinary guy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And then I remember like learning my lines in my
Speaker 6: basement apartment and like it was an emotional testimony, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah episode.
Speaker 2: I mean, you were in the hospital, you were laying
Speaker 2: in the bushes, you were laying in the hospital, you
Speaker 2: were on the stand for the grand jury, you were
Speaker 2: getting betrayed all over town.
Speaker 7: Wow, I need to watch this shiny.
Speaker 2: Very good and Michelle Monahan's in it, which was like
Speaker 2: a while I forgot about that.
Speaker 7: So they're still making new ones of these.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, baby, there is twenty six. You got to
Speaker 2: get back in you got to come back as a lawyer.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm sure you got as a lawyer.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I be fun because you know, in this episode,
Speaker 1: you really come off like like very sort of uptight,
Speaker 1: like you struck me more as like a New England girl,
Speaker 1: like you know you you don't really hear your accent,
Speaker 1: and I think it'd be really fun for you to
Speaker 1: come on and go like full blown Jersey madam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you're like running, you're running a criminal enterprise and
Speaker 1: you're like, what the hell do you cops want?
Speaker 4: You know, like I love some of that. Yeah, you're right?
Speaker 1: Are you guys in touch with We've got We've got
Speaker 1: someone who listens listen.
Speaker 7: I need a series fucking regular.
Speaker 8: I need a I have a seventeen year old, so
Speaker 8: I'm trained and ready.
Speaker 2: You would be great John Ice Crys and also just
Speaker 2: fired or let go of two detectives.
Speaker 4: They are in the need for.
Speaker 6: I need you need yes, I need you girls to
Speaker 6: say we just talk to Tammy Flinch.
Speaker 7: We love her and we were back regular. We're your fans,
Speaker 7: not a guest.
Speaker 6: Our girls go go ten percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah we got seven episode yea, it's an episode are Yeah.
Speaker 6: I still can't get I can't even get a serious
Speaker 6: regular you well.
Speaker 2: Because I'm thinking, how we get you to be a
Speaker 2: madam but be long term. Maybe you're a lawyer who
Speaker 2: really is a madam behind the scenes, and it's like, uh.
Speaker 7: Oh no, the seven that'd be great, nice.
Speaker 1: Little yeah, and you can commute from home and your
Speaker 1: mother a mother. Yeah, well you have a fun IMDb
Speaker 1: cannot we like say the names of projects and then
Speaker 1: you'll say a story like a thing if you'd like
Speaker 1: or what Carara, Well, I was just gonna say, like, so,
Speaker 1: first of all, it's very impressive anybody I think that
Speaker 1: makes the jump from the soaps to the main stuff
Speaker 1: because it doesn't happen for everybody.
Speaker 4: A lot of people just do soaps forever.
Speaker 1: So you did Guiding Light for like fifty episodes, and
Speaker 1: then this is like your first Did you do this
Speaker 1: Law and Order first? Or did did you do this
Speaker 1: Life with Judy Garland which you won an Emmy four exciting?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I went right from Guiding Light.
Speaker 6: Literally at Dining Light they called me and said that
Speaker 6: I got Judy Garland. So I went right into Judy Garland,
Speaker 6: and you know, I grew up. My first solo was
Speaker 6: somewhere over the rainbow. I was so scared.
Speaker 7: I have a father that.
Speaker 6: Was a Vietnam Vet alcoholic and a mother that was
Speaker 6: about thirteen children born in Jersey City, dirt poor. So
Speaker 6: these were like really low, low lives growing up for them,
Speaker 6: and you know, struggling people I was born from. Came
Speaker 6: to the household, and my older.
Speaker 7: Brother was a step brother.
Speaker 6: He always beat up my younger brother, and nobody talked
Speaker 6: to me except for my father when he came home
Speaker 6: with ten minutes they up to work, and so my
Speaker 6: mother hated me because my father was so nice to me.
Speaker 7: So it was just.
Speaker 6: An isolated, sad, quiet existence and then anger and violence
Speaker 6: and everything around me.
Speaker 7: And then when I go in my bed at night.
Speaker 6: I had this strong like faith growing up because I
Speaker 6: had an experienced when I was like three or four,
Speaker 6: and I would pray and I would just pray. And
Speaker 6: then when I was about eight or ten, I.
Speaker 4: Think it was like eight old.
Speaker 6: Ever, the principal came in and they were auditioning somewhere
Speaker 6: in the rainbow solo in the chorus, and the principal
Speaker 6: pointed to me and said, let her audition, and I
Speaker 6: stood up and sang when all the world is a
Speaker 6: homeless jumbo that the rain drops tumbo all around and
Speaker 6: then olten some magically, and that's the beginning before somewhere
Speaker 6: in the rainbow. That's what didn't get into the movie.
Speaker 6: And she said I could sing it. So when I
Speaker 6: got up and sang this thing, my mom did my
Speaker 6: hair like Judy Garland. It ended up in the Jersey Journal.
Speaker 4: My parents and.
Speaker 7: Everyone came to this.
Speaker 4: I got stuff about it.
Speaker 6: Everyone looked at me. They started looking at me, like
Speaker 6: my mom and everything. So I realized that this is
Speaker 6: something that will make me be seen and heard and
Speaker 6: something that will help Like there was smiles in the family,
Speaker 6: like when I got off the stage, like in the paper,
Speaker 6: everyone looking at the paper, you know. And so I
Speaker 6: got to feel so acting expressing has been something that
Speaker 6: can help me and my family, and that's why I
Speaker 6: wanted to do it and keep doing it. And the
Speaker 6: more I did it, then when I got dining, like
Speaker 6: you know, I started making three thousand. I put everyone
Speaker 6: in the house and I stayed in the basement and
Speaker 6: I paid for the whole house, you know, Like, so
Speaker 6: it was just something that could help me in my family.
Speaker 1: Did you get that a lot when you were growing
Speaker 1: up that you look like her. I mean because you
Speaker 1: I from the episode you have the dark hair of SVU.
Speaker 4: Like, I'm like, she does look like Judy Garland.
Speaker 7: I did.
Speaker 6: And then the first play we did in the so
Speaker 6: that was like maybe sixth grade or whatever.
Speaker 7: So the school ended up. I did the first full.
Speaker 6: Play I ever did was The Wizard of Oz, and
Speaker 6: the school principle became kind of department schools. The music
Speaker 6: teacher became like we just started a whole theater system
Speaker 6: to where now there's like an award you can get
Speaker 6: a thousand dollars scholarship with my name on it. You know,
Speaker 6: like there's great things that have happened from it. But
Speaker 6: the Judy thing, Wisdom of Oz, like that whole theory
Speaker 6: of like there's no place like home, you know, and
Speaker 6: loving the people you're with, and like I just loved
Speaker 6: Judy Garland all my life, and she was like a
Speaker 6: sense of support that I could I could be like her.
Speaker 6: And so they did that, and then I was working
Speaker 6: on Dining Light and I told my manager, if you
Speaker 6: ever see there making anything about Judy Garland, you have
Speaker 6: to let me know, Like I love this woman and
Speaker 6: he came in towards the end of my run there
Speaker 6: and he Backstage magazine they posted they were looking for
Speaker 6: Judy Garland, so anyone who wants to be an actor
Speaker 6: or anything like I literally got that role from reading
Speaker 6: Backstage magazine and going on an open call, and it
Speaker 6: can happen to anyone. So they had auditioned me and
Speaker 6: Neil and Craig, the producers who are now big time.
Speaker 6: They were like, did you study her your whole life?
Speaker 6: And I was just like, I just love her.
Speaker 7: I just love her. I just have a player. Just
Speaker 7: let me play her. I love her. And I walked
Speaker 7: out and they ended up hiring.
Speaker 6: Someone else, and I went in the shower and I
Speaker 6: cried and I like fell to the floor and I
Speaker 6: was praying to God, if you don't give me this,
Speaker 6: my whole existence with you isn't real.
Speaker 4: It mustn't be.
Speaker 6: And they called the next day and said she wanted
Speaker 6: to Steven Spielberg's read something on TV and so they're
Speaker 6: giving the part to me. So it's just been like
Speaker 6: a process between me and Judy.
Speaker 2: Wait, let's because we know we have to go. So yeah, well,
Speaker 2: just you could do like quick things. First thing, that
Speaker 2: comes to your mind. We love the movie The Invitation.
Speaker 2: How was that?
Speaker 6: Oh great? That was Yeah, that's how one scared. It
Speaker 6: was a great experience and he film. I worked with
Speaker 6: Mike go Goal and I forgot their names. But when
Speaker 6: I got there, it was all people that I had
Speaker 6: already worked with, and we were in a house like
Speaker 6: all together.
Speaker 4: It was. It was creepy, but it.
Speaker 7: Was it was good. It's good character. Sama is a genius.
Speaker 6: She's the one that made Michelle Rodriguez, who's from Jersey
Speaker 6: City next to me the city over famous.
Speaker 7: So she had just offered me.
Speaker 6: And when someone offers you something, you just feel so
Speaker 6: good about yourself and be.
Speaker 4: Like, no, you can do your best. The good Shepherd
Speaker 4: Robert's in the ero.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was still with uh.
Speaker 6: I was still with her father, and I was playing
Speaker 6: Laura like very victimy.
Speaker 7: Like oh you know, I'm shucked. Oh yeah, are you good?
Speaker 6: And he was like at the end of the shoot,
Speaker 6: he was like, Damny, come here, he whiskers in your ear.
Speaker 6: You know, do you play the victim in your life?
Speaker 6: And it was like a realization moment for me. I
Speaker 6: was like, oh my god, I do like I do
Speaker 6: play the weak person all the time, and he was
Speaker 6: like never played the victim. And I think from then
Speaker 6: on that like changed how I took on every role,
Speaker 6: like just in a more strength based kind of fashion.
Speaker 6: Even though you're in pain and struggling, still have some
Speaker 6: kind of strength. And I think that like your strength
Speaker 6: and life, sometimes it's just your honesty and like it's
Speaker 6: any kind of pulling back from that honesty is like
Speaker 6: a sense of fear or like vulnerability that you don't
Speaker 6: need to have, like even if your honesty is.
Speaker 7: Shit, show like let it be known, you know.
Speaker 6: What I mean.
Speaker 1: I can't believe Robert de Niro like so kind of
Speaker 1: that's so cool and like bold and nah.
Speaker 6: It was Yanni's whispery and I had actually had a
Speaker 6: moment because I'm I'm this.
Speaker 7: Kind of person.
Speaker 6: I think why he gave me any kind of advice
Speaker 6: was because he was down the street and we were
Speaker 6: in the scene where I'm opening the door and there's
Speaker 6: an a D behind the door and he's down the
Speaker 6: street and AD keeps saying, Okay, open it right, and
Speaker 6: the camera's there and I opened it when the AD
Speaker 6: and it's not right, it's not right, it's not the
Speaker 6: right time three or four times, and I'm like, you're
Speaker 6: telling me.
Speaker 7: To open it, and open it. I look out at
Speaker 7: the he goes, wait, he's coming.
Speaker 6: So I looked out the window and Robertson Niro's marching
Speaker 6: down the middle of the street. You know what I mean,
Speaker 6: We're just fucking walked right, And I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 6: but I'm still like my sweet self, you know what
Speaker 6: I mean. Inside, he opens the door and he goes,
Speaker 6: he goes, you don't know how to open the door
Speaker 6: when so it's just open the door and the I
Speaker 6: don't know. My mother and father and me came out,
Speaker 6: and I was like, he fucking told me to open
Speaker 6: the door, So I opened it.
Speaker 7: When he opens it.
Speaker 6: Right after thing, it's just like this sweet person a
Speaker 6: long time and he went like this and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I don't know what the fuck just happened, but it
Speaker 6: was great, Like like.
Speaker 1: Got a kick out of somebody standing up for.
Speaker 4: Herself a little bit. Didn't want you to play the victim? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's funny.
Speaker 6: Damon, Like he tried to really French kiss made and
Speaker 6: I was like, what he from the soap operas, dude,
Speaker 6: Like we don't really stick our tongue in each other's mouths, like,
Speaker 6: and I pulled away on the beach and I was like,
Speaker 6: I have a boyfriend.
Speaker 7: I can't say it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I can't believe Matt Damon used tongue. That
Speaker 4: is crazy. Wow.
Speaker 1: Only on this podcast do we get this, We get
Speaker 1: a really good scoop.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Any stories about working with Brittany Murphy and the ram
Speaker 2: and girl, uh said.
Speaker 6: It's like someone literally like offered me thirty grand to
Speaker 6: tell my stories because I actually worked with her again
Speaker 6: on I think her last movie. That's what I say.
Speaker 6: Like the Judie Garland story, it's kind of similar. It's
Speaker 6: like someone who just didn't learn to love themselves and
Speaker 6: someone coming and just vulturizing and tearing her apart, and
Speaker 6: guys just so sad because Simon was there too, and
Speaker 6: it was at the end what he did to her,
Speaker 6: and that's.
Speaker 7: Just I just fucking feel so veted.
Speaker 6: She said this to me because it was really bad
Speaker 6: and I had just had my daughter six months old,
Speaker 6: and she wanted me to come there and play her
Speaker 6: best friend and part and I was getting like twenty
Speaker 6: grand and she wasn't showing up on time and everything
Speaker 6: and they said, if we fire her, she's gotting more
Speaker 6: fifty you know, do you want the part if they
Speaker 6: can't continue the film because they're losing so much money
Speaker 6: with her, you know, being late and stuff. Well, I
Speaker 6: take it. She's getting one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
Speaker 6: they'll give it to me. I had a six month
Speaker 6: old child, you know, I know money because I through
Speaker 6: the birthday didn't work and my guy didn't work. And
Speaker 6: I told her the next day before we were shooting scene,
Speaker 6: I told her, I said, Brittany, they're gonna fire you
Speaker 6: if you don't start coming in on time. And I'm
Speaker 6: telling you, I'm gonna take the job, like I need
Speaker 6: the money, you know. And she turned her around to me.
Speaker 7: She was in front of me.
Speaker 6: She turned around to me, and she whisked her hair back.
Speaker 6: She said, Timmy, some people are lucky and make it
Speaker 6: in their thirties, like Meryl Street. And I said, Brittany,
Speaker 6: just make sure you start coming to work on time.
Speaker 7: That's it. Don't matter how you show up, just show
Speaker 7: up on time.
Speaker 4: And that was it.
Speaker 6: And I like, I was offered at a time when
Speaker 6: I had like nothing in the bank, like thirty grand
Speaker 6: to tell the whole story, and I never will do
Speaker 6: it on something lives like this, you know what I mean, personally,
Speaker 6: one on one I'll tell people because it's great cautionary
Speaker 6: tale for anybody, especially people in business. But I would
Speaker 6: never expose her like that because I know she was
Speaker 6: just a Judy Garland, you know.
Speaker 7: And it's a sad.
Speaker 4: Story it is.
Speaker 7: But I love the girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have loved so much for her work, and yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just so beloved.
Speaker 1: I think that's why people like keep still talk about
Speaker 1: her so much.
Speaker 4: You know, she was everybody loved her.
Speaker 6: It was really like a Judy Garland. But I think
Speaker 6: I have to get my kid right. Oh.
Speaker 7: I have a Harvey Weinstein story too.
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, you can't leave us hanging. I want to
Speaker 1: know about Bernette Peters and Gypsy too.
Speaker 7: He's wonderful, wonderful.
Speaker 4: I love her.
Speaker 6: Barbari Weinstein want to see me. While I was doing Gypsy,
Speaker 6: I was with AB's father. I said, you know, he
Speaker 6: wants to see me. He might have a movie once
Speaker 6: to dinner and father was like, you're not going anyw
Speaker 6: unless it's an awful blah blah blah. I don't both
Speaker 6: see him after I break up with him. I'm in
Speaker 6: La turning to do pilot season and my manager goes
Speaker 6: he wants to see you. I'm like, oh, well, okay.
Speaker 6: So we go to Beverly Hillson towel. There's two chairs
Speaker 6: outside of hotel room. A blonde opens the door, walks
Speaker 6: me through a pallor there's a breakfast table into a
Speaker 6: bedroom and you know the thing in front of the
Speaker 6: bed where you sit down on. Sits me there and
Speaker 6: I shut the door and I'm sitting there and here
Speaker 6: comes to my prayer, you know what I mean. I'm like,
Speaker 6: what is going on? Like this is not right? And
Speaker 6: I start praying and I have this thing where I
Speaker 6: feel in trouble. I say, come into my eyes. You know,
Speaker 6: Geez comes to my house. So Gesez, come into my eyes.
Speaker 6: And I'm looking around that he opens the door in
Speaker 6: a white robe with a smile, opens the door.
Speaker 7: I turn like this, I.
Speaker 6: Look him right in the eyes and his smile goes,
Speaker 6: turns around and walks away, shuts the door right. The
Speaker 6: blonde opens the door and says he can't see you today.
Speaker 7: And I leave.
Speaker 4: True story, What the hell?
Speaker 6: No idea? And then when they were saying this stuff.
Speaker 6: I was like, oh my god, like, wow, I'm just.
Speaker 7: Coming, you know what I mean? Like what what?
Speaker 4: But how bold? How bad? How bold? How bad? Wow?
Speaker 7: How how did that?
Speaker 1: So do you think he just saw you and you
Speaker 1: looked him right in the eyes and he thought this
Speaker 1: one's not this one like she's gonna be.
Speaker 4: Too much trouble.
Speaker 6: I'm a believer, so there's something you know, for believers
Speaker 6: if you believe in I'm in that kind of presence
Speaker 6: in you.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Tammy, Oh my god, incredible. This was amazing.
Speaker 2: Thanks for being so open and honest.
Speaker 4: Thrilling. Wow, what a character. Good stories, good stories.
Speaker 1: She's got stories. And she's a funny lady. She's just
Speaker 1: like give me the work. I like, how funny? Like
Speaker 1: I just you know, you think when you see somebody
Speaker 1: perform an episode of s view, you know what they're
Speaker 1: gonna be like when we interview them, and they can
Speaker 1: be so different. And she was so surprisingly different but
Speaker 1: so fun to talk to. I enjoyed her a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what do you mean you're a blonde? Like that
Speaker 1: kind of broke my brain.
Speaker 4: Unfortunate. Yes, yes, you guys couldn't see that.
Speaker 1: But but Platinum Blonde on the interview with us good Scoop,
Speaker 1: Good stories, Yeah, good vibe.
Speaker 4: Bad episode, bad episode. I mean only the first season two.
Speaker 4: This is only one of.
Speaker 1: Fifteen episodes they do about rape on college campuses. I
Speaker 1: would say over twenty six seasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what this made me think of it?
Speaker 2: I'm shocked we didn't even mention it in the intro.
Speaker 2: But I bet they're going to do an episode next
Speaker 2: season about it. But it's like p Diddy in the
Speaker 2: and those are those are That's what was getting me
Speaker 2: going to on Instagram was the comics. Yeah, the way
Speaker 2: the people that are testifying are being treated, the way
Speaker 2: people are acting about like why didn't you like just
Speaker 2: all the classic stuff and how it's just so pervasive
Speaker 2: and how will we ever get rid of this? Like
Speaker 2: notion like why are people sympathizing with this man? I
Speaker 2: was also disgusted that his kids were all there adult
Speaker 2: or not, like disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I honestly have to be honest, like I've been
Speaker 1: staying away from the ditty stuff.
Speaker 4: It's like so dark to me. Yeah, it's really, it's
Speaker 4: so so That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: There's no consistency where it's like I'm want, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: reading about horrific crimes constantly. No not, I have a
Speaker 2: lot of problems with it. It's like quite upsetting and
Speaker 2: has turned me into a psychotic, paranoid person. But I
Speaker 2: live in fear. But yeah, no, the ditty darkness is
Speaker 2: really bad. Maybe once he's convicted. Like I'm also really
Speaker 2: scared because I was talking to comics but they don't know.
Speaker 2: I have to do my own research. But it's like
Speaker 2: because it's a ric Okay, it's like it's not about
Speaker 2: these sex crimes, so it's like character witnesses, I think,
Speaker 2: but like it has nothing to do with what's going on.
Speaker 2: And I was just hearing conversations about that the prosecution
Speaker 2: is not playing this well and it's but like usually
Speaker 2: New York State's really good about or is this federal
Speaker 2: Like they don't bring things up to trial unless it's
Speaker 2: so I don't know what's going on, like how because
Speaker 2: he could have done those crimes, But I don't know
Speaker 2: if they're going to be able to prove the racketeering, conspiracy,
Speaker 2: all of that organized crime of it all. So I
Speaker 2: don't know how many witnesses they have. Why they started
Speaker 2: with this if they're trying to inflict, I don't. Everything's
Speaker 2: a tactic, you know, and all this is important, but
Speaker 2: I'm just scared because of this one convo that like
Speaker 2: he's not going to get convicted.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we've seen before.
Speaker 2: I feel like he gets cocky and they don't prep enough,
Speaker 2: like we've seen that happen in other Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I think with Casey Anthony is one that comes
Speaker 4: to mind.
Speaker 1: I've just been seeing all these snippets of Cassie, like
Speaker 1: her like quotes from her testimony, and I just feel
Speaker 1: so bad for her. And I'm just like, and she
Speaker 1: has this like husband who's standing by her now, which
Speaker 1: I love, and like he's like I didn't save her,
Speaker 1: she saved herself.
Speaker 4: Like you know. I it's just like I just.
Speaker 1: Haven't been getting into I've been following, but like I'm
Speaker 1: not getting into the nitty gritty, Like I haven't watched
Speaker 1: the Hulu doc. I think there's like a five part
Speaker 1: Hulu doc that people are like, you should watch that
Speaker 1: at give and I'm like, I just I'm like for now,
Speaker 1: I'm just like arms length without it just feels.
Speaker 2: Really really And I guess there was another witness that
Speaker 2: was walking in and like people were harassing her on
Speaker 2: the way in. It's just like we're truly still in
Speaker 2: the Witch Trials, like always, like we've just like our
Speaker 2: views on this are so archaic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also like the power of celebrity. It's
Speaker 1: like people will just be like, I love this guy.
Speaker 1: I've always loved him, I've always loved his music or whatever,
Speaker 1: and he couldn't have done this, but.
Speaker 2: No, I love It's also like he's he's also people
Speaker 2: defending him. It's like people think he fucking killed kim Porter.
Speaker 2: They think he fucking kis Bill his best friend? Like
Speaker 2: he's been a criminal for decades and who was it?
Speaker 2: Oh Wendy Willia was it? Wendy made like Wendy's always
Speaker 2: talked about him being a criminal. But there's someone on
Speaker 2: the carpet with TLC and they make a joke about him,
Speaker 2: going like, oh is Rosy O'Donnell making a joke to
Speaker 2: them about him serving five to ten or something and
Speaker 2: TLC's laughing. This is in the nineties, so it's like
Speaker 2: this all of like I don't get people writing from
Speaker 2: that hard because his music is all taken from others
Speaker 2: and built on the talent of others, right, right, he's also.
Speaker 4: Maybe killed his best friend.
Speaker 2: All these people, Like I don't get why we're writing
Speaker 2: for it, Like what has he done for you?
Speaker 8: That is?
Speaker 4: That is the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like I think it's literally for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: it's like the entrepreneurship and the like empire, like they
Speaker 1: people respect the power because you're right, the music, isn't
Speaker 1: it Like yeah, sure, uh the the every breath you
Speaker 1: take cover? Why am I blanking on what it's called?
Speaker 1: Like I'm just saying, yeah, in high school, we all
Speaker 1: love that. But like, I don't think the music is
Speaker 1: what people are Like. I think people think of like
Speaker 1: the parties, the opulence Sean John, like the alcohol's hypnot,
Speaker 1: like you know why there like empires, like the empire
Speaker 1: that he built as just kind of like a rich person,
Speaker 1: not even like a person with talent per se.
Speaker 4: Like someone holding an umbrella for him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I saw another car, like I had
Speaker 2: a spot and like a guy was like did you
Speaker 2: hear his Like, oh, his dick is like a tutsie roll,
Speaker 2: And I go, that's what you took from all of that,
Speaker 2: Like the size of his tiny dad, It's just like,
Speaker 2: you're not horrified.
Speaker 4: I was just like annoyed. I guess I'm like.
Speaker 2: Annoyed, and I know I'm going to get deep into
Speaker 2: this eventually, I just like can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody in one of my mom groups did bring
Speaker 1: up not my mom group, somebody in one of my
Speaker 1: Bravo groups brought up what you were talking about, which
Speaker 1: was I wonder how much Heather Thompson knows Halla. You know,
Speaker 1: some people were like, I bet she went to the
Speaker 1: early parties and never stayed for the freak offs. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, that also probably makes sense, you know, because
Speaker 1: I could see her being like gotta go mama, like
Speaker 1: you know, but uh fuck, yeah, it's crazy and this
Speaker 1: I don't know. The post mortem on this episode is
Speaker 1: like I want to say, oh, yeah, this episode is
Speaker 1: from you know, twenty two thousand, you know what, and
Speaker 1: nothing has changed on college campuses, nothing has changed in
Speaker 1: that way. But we you gotta be a girl's girl.
Speaker 1: I mean, these dumb bitches like are you out of
Speaker 1: your mind? Like we like that. That's like college is
Speaker 1: just crazy crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is crazy.
Speaker 1: It's lawless and they have their own law. They try
Speaker 1: to make their own law and it's like crazy. But
Speaker 1: we can move on to what would Sister Peg do,
Speaker 1: our weekly segment where we highlight an article, a book,
Speaker 1: a blog post of a doc something to give you
Speaker 1: more info about what we talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to point everybody to the twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: documentary The Hunting Ground, about the culture of sexual assault
Speaker 1: on college campuses in the United States, and I would
Speaker 1: be interested to hear from our listeners actually, because we
Speaker 1: have a lot of listeners from like the UK and
Speaker 1: Australia if this is the same there, Like, is the
Speaker 1: culture of sexual assault as rampant there as it is
Speaker 1: over here. In particular, this doc focuses on Annie E.
Speaker 1: Clark and Andrea Pino to former University of North Carolina
Speaker 1: Chapel Hill students who filed a title line complaint against
Speaker 1: unc in response to their rapes. It is streaming on
Speaker 1: Prime and Apple TV, and we will link to that
Speaker 1: in our show notes and in a story the day
Speaker 1: this episode comes out. And I think this documentary is
Speaker 1: really really eye opening for a lot of people, And yeah,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram. That's messed up pod for all
Speaker 1: of our What would Sister peg do's and all of
Speaker 1: our episode announces and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And next week we got a back to back season
Speaker 2: premiere double.
Speaker 4: I don't know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's a double episode and the Empire strikes Back and
Speaker 2: never turn your back on Them.
Speaker 4: Thanks War and Light for those smooth titles.
Speaker 2: Are they both star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back
Speaker 2: is definitely star wars y?
Speaker 4: But what it never turned.
Speaker 1: Never turn your back on Them? I don't think has anything.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a Star Wars. Is that a Star Wars thing? Casey, No,
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: But it's season twenty three, episode one and two.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so hit up the first you got extra homework.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening. As usual, We
Speaker 1: love you guys. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pop or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up pod
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun