WEBVTT - Are you a Toxic Forgiver? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.720 Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.080 Red Table Pop Podcast, all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.280 Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.360 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.760 on Apple podcasts. On this r T T very special 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:22.520 guests Cherie Once, the wife of Will, is at the 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:27.240 table for an important conversation about toxic forgiveness, the unhealthy 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.120 way we pretend to be over in. Do you think 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.960 there's anything else we have yet to forgive each other for? 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.120 I can remember sometimes that I really crossed the line. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:41.680 To quote the creator of Red Table that park. She 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.160 marched all up in that house, like march right into 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:50.440 that master bedroom. I was like, Lord Jesus, actress Janna Kramer, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.720 you found out he cheated with about thirteen women more 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.880 m wow, I would imagine to get your madest hell. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.640 And I looked through the fall villains, like started calling 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.759 these numbers. People think they know the entire story and 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.920 they don't expert advice that will make you rethink how 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.520 you look at forgiveness. Medick is on a mission to 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:21.600 start an unforgiveness revolution. I'm having a whole moment. I'm sorry. Yeah, here. 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:27.560 We are at d table Willows on tour and we'll 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.720 be back soon. So it's just you and me, gam 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.720 with a very special guests filling in from this Willow. 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.440 Come on out here, Shari, thank you, no, thank you, Ray. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:44.039 This is a good one. This is as some of 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.960 you may know, Shari is Trey's mother and was once 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:52.360 the wife of will and we have developed a really 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:57.240 nice sisterhood. But it hasn't been easy along the way. Yeah, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.080 it was, it was. It was a lot. And you know, 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.040 as we're talking about toxic forgiveness today, sometimes we did 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.960 have to fake it to make it. I mean, you 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.000 and I have been in this process because we were 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.360 baby since we were babies. Yeah, I'm trying to have 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:19.880 a blended family and not really having a blueprint of that, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.959 like we really had to figure it out along the way. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.400 For me, it really was just about maturity, just not 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:33.040 understanding the marital dynamic, like okay, well divorce papers are 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.880 sent and people are over, then this is done. It's like, oh, 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.000 I guess it ain't never done. No, we just didn't 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:46.240 start right. Just so that was my biggest misconception, and 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.200 that this woman is a part of this family Yeah, 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.720 it's like not only taking on trade, but Shari was 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.399 coming along as exactly. And I think to when we 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.920 started to blend. You are a mom, you know you 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:03.800 didn't know what it was like to be a wife, 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:08.760 to be connected. I'm imagining it definitely took some forgiveness 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.480 on your part, because I can remember sometimes that I 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.880 really crossed the line. It was one time I think 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:20.040 Trey had had a play date and he had misbehaved, 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.040 and I was like, we gotta sit down, we gotta 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.800 talk about this trade. Can't be behaving this way, and 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.400 you were like, let me set it up, let me 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.400 give you another I literally walked in the house just 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:35.760 to drop him off, and as soon as I walked in, 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.480 Jade was like, listen, we gotta talk about his behavior. 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.480 I was like, Oh, get his daddy please. Why are 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.560 you talking about what happens at my house right over here? 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.000 Oh it didn't even happen at your behavior was at 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:58.600 my house? Eactly? Oh my goodness. See it was all 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.160 it was just a lot of of intertwining and it 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.520 got really kind of detwining it out of orderness. Yes, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.080 there was a lot of good everybody the creator a 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:16.120 red table. Yeah, it was out of line, but you 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.240 didn't mean any harm. You were like, listen, we got 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.280 to get him right right. And I remember one time 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.840 you came in the house that you went into the 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.760 master bedroom. You just looked around, Yes, you looked around. 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.000 You marched into the master bedroom and you wanted to 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.760 see what was going on, like how it was decorated 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.400 all that. You marched back there and you were like, oh, okay, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:40.120 I just want to see what it was early on. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.560 And I think you were just trying to just like 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.560 I just need you to know who Queen Bee is 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.880 around here, Okay, So I'm yes, and come up and 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.080 here and look here. And I was like, I couldn't 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.560 say nothing. She marched all up in that house like 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.760 march right and to that master bedroom, and I was like, 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:10.120 Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus, that was the house and that's 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.480 what I knew too. I was like, well, damn, she 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.200 didn't pick the house out. You know. I can't say nothing. 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.440 And we were both very fiery. Yes, both of you 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.800 were coming into this, you know, doing the blended thing. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.559 My only requirement was that you treated my son well. Yeah, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.200 you did that, and your heart was always right towards him, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.520 wanting the best for him. Yeah, when I looked back 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.120 at how much was put on us and how much 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.720 was put on you because we were so young and 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.279 it was so public and it was so fresh, it 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.920 was like you really didn't even have time to adjust. 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.200 That's the thing. You had no time. I didn't understand that, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.800 because you know, it's like a boyfriend. It's like if 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.080 you're done with a joke and you're done, you're done. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.800 But that's not how marriage works. I don't think that 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.680 that's how relationship work. A lot of times when there's 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.719 a breakup, sometimes people tend to jump in very quickly 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.320 into the next thing. And I learned that if I 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.960 had to do it all over again, I would have 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.960 take a beat. I would have definitely had taken a 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:20.000 beat as far as putting myself within the dynamic of 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.480 you guys, exactly, let's give this a year, let's let 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.560 YouTube just lets you out whatever y'all have to figure out, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.280 especially when there's children involved. Yeah, I didn't understand it, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.960 but when you got it, but I remember you coming 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.480 to me and you were tear, you were very emotional, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.320 and you said I just didn't know and Basically, what 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.080 you were saying is I was in the picture too soon. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.920 I was I and you apologize to that. And it's 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.039 interesting because recently I was in that same situation. Now 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.760 it's a little worse. They were divorcing. What I didn't 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.200 know is that she was very, very pregnant, uh, and 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.880 we were all in the same space and she came 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.880 and I was like, what am I doing here? It 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.440 is way too soon? And I felt like I'm out 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:09.880 of line, Like you just I need to give them 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.120 because you never know what's going to have, so you 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.120 don't you don't know. It's like, you know, I don't 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.600 think anybody is really in their right mind to start 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:22.000 making permanent decisions in the midst of something. So you know, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:27.320 it's divorces ain't no joke, right, So thank you because 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.760 you've always been one to like, you know, I read 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.840 I don't missed it to give me and we were 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.800 able to move on. Yeah. I think we were able 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:41.600 to have difficult conversations. We were always able to own up, 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.480 and we knew that it was going to take the 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.880 two of us to lead the way for the rest 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.480 of us. Really when set the tone, yeah, absolutely, And 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.800 remember we had our little books. Yeah, we had our 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.600 little books. We don't have those books, do you. Of course, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.720 we had a journal that we would send back to 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:03.640 one another, right, just kind of expressing things to one 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.360 another that might not have been easy to talk about 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.440 face to face. Yeah, that was your idea, and I 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.760 thought that was just a brilliant idea because we set 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.960 the tone in the pace and we influenced the whole dynamic. 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.480 Let's work our stuff out. I've never heard of anybody 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.720 doing that before. Yeah. My philosophy always was, how can 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.560 I love Trey and not love the most important person 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.200 in his life, which is his mother. You can't, You can't. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.080 And I knew that I can't say that I love 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.559 Trey and not love his mother and be like, no, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.520 she can't be here. No. All that that is in 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.840 a straight contradiction to me saying that I love Trey. 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.480 That's really important for people to hear that. I'd have 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.720 to say that you were probably one of the biggest 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:56.120 instruments in regards to me having to really learn it 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.880 wasn't always about me and to reach for a level 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.520 of emotional maturity. Not thank you, because I really feel 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.920 you gave me the grace to evolve and I thank 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.560 you for that. Yeah, it was your patience, It was 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:18.000 It was definitely quite a partnership because somebody we're gonna 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:23.200 have words. She was looking at Okay, and then and you. 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.760 I never forget you had on this spending up in 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.440 this case. She was like, oh no, She was like, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.320 not not today. Do you think there's anything else we 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:39.160 have yet to forgive each other for? Um, I hope not. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.000 I know right after all, I had after twenty plus 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.760 years trait about to be thirty, right, I think we're 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:52.120 committed to the process. Yeah, I'm committed to loving you. Yeah, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.199 I'm committed to giving you grace like your family to me. Yeah, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:02.560 for sure. So trade just that seconde I looked at you, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:08.400 I was like, Wow, it's it's straight. That's your angel. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.720 So speaking of forgiveness, we saw a post the other 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.280 day from our R T T friend Nedra Glover to 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.760 WAB that struck me. She said, toxic forgiveness is an 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.240 unhealthy way that people pretend to be unharmed over it 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.800 or forgetful of the offense. Forgiving to keep the peace 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.439 or people pleasing is not healthy for your mental health 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.920 or your relationship. She's got a point there. Absolutely not 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:42.199 done that so much in regards to my codependent people 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:47.520 pleasing self, So yeah, I know all about that. After 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:52.160 Janna Kramer discovered her husband's infidelity, she found herself struggling 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:58.360 with toxic forgiveness and self blame. Actress Janna Kramer is 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.400 known for her roles in One Tree Hill and prom Night, 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.120 Oh My God, You Have Kid. She took the music 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.200 industry by storm when she was crowned the Academy of 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.240 Country Music's New Female Vocalists of the Year. After a 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.960 pattern of unhealthy relationships, it seems she had finally met 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.560 the man of her dreams when she married NFL star 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:23.920 Mike Cosson. Their highs were public good looks, great careers, 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:29.000 to gorgeous children. Their lows made even more headlines. Jane 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.719 and Mike were open about their struggles, including his infidelity 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.520 and battles with addiction. They talked about it on their 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.640 podcast Why Did You Cheat on Me? Like I was 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.880 willing to have sex with you, so that's the part 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.720 that stings me, and even wrote a best selling book 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.400 about how they fought to stay together. Janna says she 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.280 gave her husband countless times until she finally had enough. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:12:01.400 The two divorced just eighteen months ago. Wow, Hi, Hide 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.080 it so nice to meet you. Nice, Thank you so much. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.280 You're gorgeous. So let's just start with So. I'm like, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.720 so beautiful, Like I need to know every serum, every 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.720 weed that from you too. So, Jenna, take us back 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.439 to the beginning of your relationship with Mike. That was 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.240 thirty and I really wanted a family. I had just 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.679 been searching to find my worth for a man. Yeah, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.800 we've been there. There were flags in the beginning. He 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.520 had cheated, you know, a month into dating. But I'm like, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.880 it's okay. I've cheated in past relationships and I didn't 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.320 forgive myself for it. So I'm going to forgive you. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.600 I can make this work. We can grow together and 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.800 in the marriage too. Every time you cheated, first, second, third, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.960 however many times, like I like, I forgive you. And 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.320 my daughter was four months old when a girlfriend was like, 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.480 something's not right with him, and I could sense it. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.280 I think I didn't want to leave it. I'm on 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.120 the road, I'm traveling, like, like, how would I know 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.760 when she does look through the phone bills, And I 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.360 looked through the phone bill and started calling these numbers, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:16.200 and then that's when I found out the truth. And 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.280 then you just went into a process of trying to 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.319 heal the relationship. I came from a broken family, and 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.240 my whole thing was I do not want my children 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.760 to grow up in a broken house. I hated Christmas 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.960 because I had to separate Christmas and that was stressful, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.120 and I want my kids under my one roof. And 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.679 the thought of another woman raising my child was like, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.600 it ain't gonna happen. I know every ounce, like I 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.079 know every part of her, like she's my child right right. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:45.920 You don't get to do what you did and then 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.000 take my child away from me. Like I became like 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.360 real big mama barrass I was like, figure out what 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.679 this is, come back, man up and be a better man. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.640 Even when he would have a few months of no cheating, 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.040 than something would happen and I'm like I'm back to that. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.400 That overwhelming, Like, oh my god, my family is felling apart. 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:04.880 Now I need to eat and grasp tighter. And then 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.200 I get like even more anxious attachment. And he couldn't 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.960 breathe because I'm just like clinging onto him. So it's 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:14.400 like it just became this cycle. I didn't forgive him, Yeah, 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.840 I said, I trusted him and didn't trust him. I 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.040 was still always like looking and like trying to find things, 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.480 and I was living this like waiting for the next 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.760 shoe to drop. And it wasn't good for my kids, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:27.560 you know. By the time we had then two kids, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.480 and you just put all this pressure ourself. So I'm 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.880 gonna stay again and try now this next time not 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.440 to be controlling. Maybe then he'll like not cheat on me, 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.240 you know. Yeah, And I think that's part of that 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.840 toxic forgiveness cycles. Not wanting to lose something that we valued. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.640 What made you feel that things would be different from 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.520 him every time he did cheat and I would find 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.640 out there'd be something different he would say that I 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.840 would hold on to like I'm gonna get baptized, or 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:55.800 I'm going to go to therapy every week, or I'm 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.400 going to go to a meeting every It's like, I'm 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:58.720 never going to do it again in the next one 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.040 because now I'm going to be a better man. And 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.000 I'm like, oh, I want that better man. Like that's 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.840 like I waited for him. So finally the last time 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.640 last April, when I caught him again. He's like, now 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.200 I know I'll never do it again. And I'm like, 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.800 and you know what, for that person, she's gonna be 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.160 real lucky that you will. And that's when I left. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.760 So over time, you found out he cheated with about 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:26.920 thirteen women more more got it? That has to be 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:35.080 really painful. M hmm. It's okay. I know we're both 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:40.600 in better situations, but I think about this year. My 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.640 kids won't wake up at my house Christmas Day. Yeah, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.120 that's gonna hurt. Yeah, it's um, that's a hard one 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:56.560 when when you're familial, dreams coincide with childhood trauma, you know. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.960 And that's like when I get like, that's not fair. 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:02.280 He took away my dream too, of what I wanted 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:06.240 from my family. Yeah, that's not fair. I would imagine, two, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:14.520 you're mad as hell. I shattered so many things and yeah, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.960 did you break your stuff for his? Yeah? So no, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.560 there was this like pantry door. He wanted to say 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.440 pantry door. I'm like, would you like to label every 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.120 door like bathroom door? So me and my girlfriends we 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.160 took a bat to it and we just shattered it. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.160 And then you know, I destroyed all of his xboxes 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.280 and all those things that he said was his only advice. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.520 I wrote all over his talks. I went real crazy 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.920 if for a minute, sometimes that's just what it is. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.000 I think this is a big one, just in regards 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.800 to toxic forgiveness. We always think the next woman will 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.200 get the better version of him. Yeah. That and to 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:54.760 get the man that I worked so hard for. I 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.240 mean we did hours of therapy and retreats to try 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.760 and fix what was broken. It's like, wait a minute, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.480 Like you don't get to get the healthy version like 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.720 I've thought for that, right, I have a question, did 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.280 you ever think that of about the better like her 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.119 getting the better version of Like I'm glad you So 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:17.000 what I think is when our union and he should 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:21.280 be better because of me, m m m m, because 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.600 you did so much. Yea, he should be better. So 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.960 it might hurt to see you with the better version, 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.919 but he shouldn't be worse because he's been with me. 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.320 We should have learned something now in this stage of life. 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.000 I think I left too soon. You know, that was 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.959 a part of me trying to protect myself. God has 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.199 let me just severed this now and and go right 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.320 And if I was in a different time, I would 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.440 never leave that soon. You know what I mean, you'd 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.800 work at it whatever reason. We expect easy and we 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.360 don't get easy. We're like, now, cheating is a whole 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.159 other thing. That's a whole other thing. Why do you 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.680 say that, Well, because I think, don't lie to me. 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:07.480 I can when I get into a situation. Now, when 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.960 I date, this is my mindset. And when we're in 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.240 an alignment and we're in harmony, it's not going to 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:16.400 be perfect. But I have the grace. I don't have 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.439 the grace for a liar. I don't have the grace. That, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.120 for me, is the worst thing you can do if 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.440 you come to me. I'm reasonable, like, let's let's work 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.440 at it together. Don't don't have all these affairs. I 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:31.920 begged him like two weeks before I found out. Just 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.240 tell me, just tell me, please be honest. That's all 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.320 I'm asking. I don't care if it's five. We can 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.760 work through it. I know you and your ex talked 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:49.520 about on your podcast his infidelity. We got the juice today. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.720 I was bawling last night. So do I mean to 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.760 start go for it? A few days ago I got 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.159 a d M saying that Mike cheated automatically. I'm in 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.199 freak out mode. The really sucky thing about it is 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:09.960 that my default can't go to There's no way where 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.320 I can't just go I trust him a thousand percent. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.880 He would never do that, and I think that's where 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.679 it's stung. So I started dm ng this person. She 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.400 said he's got a secret device in her and Mike 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.159 talk all the time and they think they're going to 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.679 be together and they have unprotected sex, and I'm like, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.680 oh my god, and I just started to kind of unravel, 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.479 you know. I noticed something was up with with Janet 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.520 the last couple of days. Once she finally told me, 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:41.000 it crushed me because it sucks that she can't default 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.760 to trust to me. It sucks that I've done what 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:47.080 I've done in the past to create that in a relationship. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.359 Right now, my hope is that years down the line, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.240 if something like this happened again, she'd be able to 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:54.600 bring it to me and we don't must be able 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.719 to like laugh about it, you know, because there is 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.320 that much trust in the bank. There's not been in 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.919 the bank that good old one day in the future 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.359 will laugh about it. I didn't know then he was cheating. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.000 But even in our book, the book that I thought 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:14.040 he was honest and he was sober and being truthful 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.199 with me, there's a chapter and there were a thousand 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.840 percent did not tell the truth of what he was 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:27.520 actually doing. Nad has to add a bit of extra embarrassment, embarrassment, pain, anger, 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.280 frustration that you went on this public healing journey and 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.879 even as you're on this public healing journey, he's not 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.240 being forthright. Yeah. I know. That's a really good point. 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.560 Like we had just became New York Times best selling 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.600 authors about how we got past this, and I'm like, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:47.880 I look like a idiot. Yeah yeah, But he says 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.040 the podcast was a catalyst for more of his cheating 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:52.800 because it made him feel like he always had the 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:54.879 spotlight on him. So then I felt like it was 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.760 my fault because if only we didn't have that podcast, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.600 he wouldn't have because the spotlight is on M he 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.800 has to cheat. I'm confused. He felt pressure to be 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.000 this like perfect, and not if I wanted to be perfect, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.080 I don't think i'd be cheating. And even now, as 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.640 long as we don't talk about us in our relationship, great, 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.120 But how rude. Is it though, that they make divorce 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:23.800 people co parent. It's like we got divorced for ever reason. Yeah, 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.000 it's really hard. But with Will, we're better as co 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.840 parents then we were as husband and why that's how 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.600 it's shaping up to be. We came together to have try. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:37.760 It took the two of us to make camp, but 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:42.640 then we shift it and you guys really enjoy each other. 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.320 You guys really do take it under your skin, like 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.879 because it's like never they take trips, I'm not there. 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.200 They do their thing. No, you're don't have to explain that. Okay, well, yes, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.720 I'm not saying that I'm not together. We're not together romantic, 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.199 but like if he's going on a book tour and 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.080 his mom is going and his sister and it's fun 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.280 for me to watch them enjoy each other. It takes time. 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:12.120 Though we're not having a trouble everyone. Let's just make 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.040 that very clear because you know that will be the 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:20.479 next it clear. Yeah, but I think a lot of 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.000 times people are shamed into forgiving, you know, whether it's 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.480 like if you're the other party, yeah, he like, when 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:28.960 are you going to stop? Why aren't you gonna finally 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:30.720 forgetting when are you going to stop talking about this? 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.320 And like, well, it happened two weeks ago, give me 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.240 a minute. And then I'm like, oh, now, yeah, I 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:37.359 have to forgive now because if not, he's getting angry 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.040 at me for not forgiving. Yeah, and then you have 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:45.080 yourself absolutely and then different thinking I'm the reason for X, 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:47.240 Y and Z happening after that because you didn't forgive 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:49.400 me right, And people will say, oh, you're not being 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.439 spiritual enough. Oh you don't really have paid you know 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.560 what I mean. It's like all of these different components 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:58.680 I think, you know, especially in this day where it's 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:03.240 like everybody's into it's like give you. We don't give 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.800 people enough time to have that process to bust up 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:12.600 the pantry door. Yes, yes, because it is a process. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.600 It doesn't happen immediately. Sometimes it takes years. And the 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.639 hard thing too is because you know we're open and 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.160 we talk about things, people then slide in my damns, 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:23.919 how how much longer are you gonna keep talking about it? 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.560 When he already and they're like oh, shoot, they're right, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.600 It's like okay, when is it time to really let 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.240 it go so that you can grow you. I also 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:37.679 think when outside. People have their opinion their opinion, and 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:42.760 they don't know the entire story. Even if you've taken 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:47.600 time to tell part of your story, people think they 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:53.560 know the entire story and they don't. So a lot 0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:57.960