1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, everyone, 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Polette, and 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: I am the tech editor here at how stuff works 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: dot Com, sitting across from me as usual as senior 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: writer Jonathan Strickland. Actually I am also Chris Polette. I'm 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: sorry what I'm just seeing if I can get away 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: with it. That's not true. No, it's not true. It 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: leads to our listener mail. This listener mail comes from 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Boris or if you wish, Bobcat, and I do wish, 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: So this listener mail comes from Bobcat, who says, hello, 13 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: beloved tech eas First of all, I have to say 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: that I really appreciated the rant and other outbursts of 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: skepticism in your ghost Hunting Technology episode. That has been 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: a profound absence of critical thinking and evidence based positions 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: on various issues coming from the media lately, and your 18 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: show has definitely made me feel as if there's hope 19 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: for rationality and non wackiness. So kudos you've made at 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: least one listener as happy as pie. If you're considering 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: doing more podcasts with related undertones of skepticism, I suggest 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: that you guys consider taking on things like radiometric dating 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: technologies as well as lie detectors and the technology of spying. 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: That is, how some believe that the government may be 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: watching us and how they actually do. Also, during the 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: sci Fi Movies podcast from before, you brought up doll 27 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: House in passing still can't believe it's over. Why cover 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: movies for a podcast, not do TV shows and then 29 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: rub it in our faces by mentioning Dollhouse. I expect 30 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: this gross malfie essence to be corrected as soon or malfeasance, 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: I guess I should say my brain is not working. 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: Should should be corrected soon. And with one of those 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: annoying listener mail announcements from Strickland, thanks for maintaining your 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: high standard of podcast. Yes, except for the fact that 35 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: I mispronounced malfeasance. Um well boris thanks a lot. We 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: actually decided from this email to take one specific UH suggestion, 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: which was the light detector suggestion. I thought that was 38 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: an excellent suggestion. We can talk about how they work 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: and how they do not work, because they do both 40 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: at the same time. As it turns out, I'm sorry, 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: I was still thinking about pie. Yeah, I was still 42 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: thinking of Malfie, Yes, and so uh in suburbia. But 43 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, you know, once in a while I dropped 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: a bomb like that and then I beat myself up 45 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: over it for the next like three months apparently. So anyway, yeah, 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about let's talk about polygraphs. Light detectors. So 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: those those highly calibrated machines that it takes you know, 48 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: a train forensic psycho physiologist, uh, weeks to learn. Yeah, 49 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: yeah you could. It could take you up to fourteen 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 1: whole weeks to learn how to operate one of these things. 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: All right, before we get too far, let's let's let's 52 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: make some things very clear. First of all, light detectors do, 53 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: in fact measure things. They're not just it's not just 54 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: a box with some little pens that scribble on a 55 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: paper randomly. It's not like it's it's um uh, you know, 56 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: just a fake tool. Um. What they do is they 57 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: measure physiological responses over a set period of time, the 58 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: set period being whenever you turn the machine on and 59 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: whenever you turn the machine off. Um. But it does 60 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: this through three main methods. It measures your respiratory rate. 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: That would be uh, the respiratory Right there is Chris 62 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: breathing heavily into his mike getting it's just if any 63 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: of you found that creepy right tech stuff at kustaphors 64 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: dot com. I know I will be. And then it 65 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: also measures your pulse rate. It has a pressure cup 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: on your arm. Oh my god, hey, you know I'm okay. 67 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: I want as as a as the person who is 68 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: sitting here in the studio with Chris at this time. 69 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what he has to do 70 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: about this one. I got nothing for this. Third. The 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: third thing it measures is galvanic response, which technically is 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: um sweating. And yeah, Chris is always sweating buckets, so 73 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to tell from one moment to 74 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: the next if he's actually, you know, trying to display something, 75 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: if he's trying to to illustrate a point. But that's 76 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: just as he's not really sweating. So they do this 77 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: through various methods. There's like a there's one that will 78 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: be sensors that are placed around your chest to measure 79 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: your your chest expansion and contraction. Wise, your breathing would 80 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: be the respiratory rate. Part that would be the respiratory rate. 81 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: There's a pressure cuff placed along one arm that measures 82 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: the pulse the blood pressure right right, and then there 83 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: are electrodes attached to the fingers to measure the galvanic 84 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: response that the amount of sweat. Yes, okay, so they 85 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: have a bucket underneath the tables, you know, if it 86 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: gets out of hand. Yeah, when Muggsy comes in, they're like, okay, 87 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: we got us weather, Let's let's put a bucket under there. 88 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: So these are always measuring these changes in the rates. 89 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: They have to establish a baseline first, and any change 90 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: in any of those three uh factors will result in 91 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: a needle on the paper scribbling something um so that 92 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: you'll see you can actually see where the changes happen 93 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: along along the set time period. I think we've all 94 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: seen a movie or TV show where the you know, 95 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: they've done that close up shot and little needle going right, 96 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: the needles starts shaking back and forth really crazy. In 97 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: case any of you can't hear that, you know what, 98 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: we should just leave it to Liz to put in 99 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: the little scratchy sounds, because I bet that picks up 100 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: a lot better than you scratching on your laptop. I 101 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: don't know. They can pick up footsteps outside the studio, 102 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: that's true. We have her bigfoot lurking outside our studio 103 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: occasionally anyway, but at any rate. Okay, So so yeah, 104 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: these it's not just one line of data. It's actually 105 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: uh several lines of data because you get the you 106 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: get one essentially for each um uh factor. So uh, 107 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: there are three different needles measuring it, and ideally you 108 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: would be able to look at the three different lines 109 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: and be able to tell when there was a major 110 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: uh change in someone's physiological response. Well, there's there's sort 111 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: of a hypothetical basis on which you could say if 112 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: somebody was lying, you would expect them to be more 113 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: stressed out than if they were telling the truth, preventing 114 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: the truth from coming out. Right. That's that's what the whole, 115 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: the whole basis of of polygraph is is. That's the 116 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: foundation for the polygraph test. The foundation for the polygraph 117 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: test is an assumption that if you lie about something, 118 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: you will your body will respond, will engage in the 119 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: fight or flight response. Not to take something from our 120 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: sister podcast stuff, you should know, that's their favorite phrase 121 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: or it used to be anyway, but the fight or 122 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: flight response tends to pop into play whenever you are 123 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: trying to to conceal something. At least that's the theory. Now. 124 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: If this were to hold true, if every single person 125 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: in the world were to respond in a similar way 126 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: whenever they were trying to be elusive or lie about something, 127 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: then the light detector test might actually work if everyone 128 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: responded the same way. But we're human beings. Turns out 129 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: we all have different responses to the same sort of 130 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: sensory input. Some of us, uh get very anxious at times, 131 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: including myself. There are there are certain situations where I 132 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: get very very anxious, and um, I'm certain that if 133 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: I were ever brought in to be questioned about something, 134 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: I would be very anxious about it. Not because necessarily 135 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: that I did something. I'm not saying I did, and 136 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that didn't. I'm just saying that, yeah, 137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: But in either case, even if I were completely innocent 138 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: of it, I know that people asking me these questions 139 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: would make me nervous and my body would react in 140 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: such a way that, uh, it would be very difficult 141 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: to say that a reading that you got for me 142 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: would be, would would indicate a live versus truth just 143 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: because I would be anxious no matter if I had 144 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: done it or not. Uh. Conversely, there are people out 145 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: there who are consummate liars, and either they are delusional 146 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: and actually believe the things they're saying, they're sociopaths, they 147 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: don't care what they're saying, or they've trained themselves to 148 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: not give away these physiological responses so that it's very 149 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: difficult to tell whether or not they're telling the truth. 150 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: Everything looks like the truth. It's kind of fascinating to 151 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: think that there are actually people that are you know, 152 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: that actually believe that what they are saying is true, 153 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: even when it's you know, a patent lie. Yeah. Um. 154 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: But you know, if if somebody is delusional about that 155 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: and believes that what they are saying is true, then 156 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: they're not going to register any kind of response like that. 157 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: They believe it to be true. And as time passes, 158 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: it's it's easier and easier to believe a lie. Uh. 159 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: I mean uh. And and in some case when I'm 160 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: saying lie, it may just be an exaggeration. For example, 161 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: if you think about something that happened to you in 162 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: your childhood and you tell the story about it, and uh, 163 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: it can. It's one of those things that I've mentioned 164 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: this before. It can build over time, like you elaborate 165 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: the story and you might exaggerate one fact over another, 166 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: or you might add in a little thing that that 167 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily happen, but it makes the story better. And 168 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: upon retellings and over the passage of time, you might 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: actually come to believe that that is actually exactly how 170 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: it happened. And then if you were to review, say 171 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: a film of it or a video of it, you 172 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: might be shocked to see how different the real event 173 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: was from the way it was in your mind. If 174 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: you've been given a polygraph test and you were asked 175 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: to relay that information under the polygraph system, uh, it 176 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: would show that you're telling the truth because you're you're 177 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: saying what you believe. It's not it's not a there's 178 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: no magic in the box that allows it to determine 179 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: what is really true and what isn't. So let's talk 180 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: a little bit about the process of a a graph 181 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: examination and kind of explain, you know, how how these 182 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: examiners build a routine so that they can try and 183 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: and track lies right now. Um. Actually, when I was 184 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: commenting earlier, when we got started about the forensic psycho physiologist, 185 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: I was hoping to say it without tripping that time. UM, 186 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: those are the people who who like to UH or 187 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: who are who like to be known that with that 188 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: it is their professional UH title, I guess, but they 189 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: are the people who give the polygraph tests and really 190 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: a professional forensic psycho physiologist. If I don't look at 191 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: the words make them out easier. Um, they are. They 192 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: are generally going through some kind of professional training UM, 193 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: such as the ACCTRON International Academy UM, which is accredited 194 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: by the American polygraph Association and certified by the American 195 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: Association of Police Polygraphists Polygraphists. People who have polygraphs. Polygraphists 196 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: sound like people who have more than one graph. Um. 197 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: I'm on a monographists myself. So if you so, If 198 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: you were going to to become a forensic psycho physiologist US, 199 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: you would need to UH to have a baccalaureate degree 200 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: or at least five years of UM investigative experience and 201 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: an associates degree UM. You would need to go through 202 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: a certified course which includes, among the different categories you 203 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: would need to study or psychology, physiology, ethics, history, UM, 204 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: question construction, UH, speech analysis, chart analysis, text and test 205 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: data analysis. And you would also have to uh, you know, 206 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: go through a series of exams to you know, on 207 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: actual cases in which a LIE detector tests or I 208 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: should say polygraph is being used. Um and the th 209 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: are reviewed by professionals. So, uh, this internship can although 210 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: the program is sort of short, that the internship can 211 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: take from eight months to a year. According to the 212 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: article we have on the website about how lie detectors work, Yeah, 213 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: it's actually a very good article. I do recommend that 214 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: you read it. Um. So that all being kind of 215 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: beside the point really when you get down to to 216 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: what exactly is going on with lie detectors. But I 217 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: just wanted to point out that that that there is 218 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: some that the people who are actually doing this for 219 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: say a police department or another law enforcement agency, go 220 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 1: through training on how to interpret what they think is 221 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: coming out of the machine. Right. The problem is that 222 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: again the very foundation of what they do is faulty, 223 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: so built on a false premise. Ultimately it's built on 224 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: a false premise. I just wanted to talk about how 225 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: the process works. Okay, So let's talk about the test itself. Okay, 226 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: So during the test itself, what would happen is the 227 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: examiner would you know strap ian um. So let's let's 228 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: let's say that that I Jonathan Strickland. I'm the subject 229 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: of this polygraph examination. The first thing that would happen 230 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: is that we will Usually you get a few questions 231 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: at the beginning that are supposedly to form the baseline 232 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: so that the questionnaire can see what your level of 233 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 1: anxiety is, just based upon normal questions, nothing that necessarily 234 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: has anything to do with what they brought you in for. 235 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: They want to see basically what's moving the needles when 236 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: they tell it, say or ask you versus what isn't 237 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: moving the needles, and they can get an idea of 238 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: how you're gonna behave right if you're If you're already anxious, 239 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: then this would theoretically at least let them know. Okay, 240 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: this guy's kind of a nervous nellie, so uh uh, 241 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: anything that hits this level doesn't necessarily mean it's a lie, 242 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: because this dude's just quivering in his boots, which is 243 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: exactly how I would be. I'm not gonna lie I'm 244 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: about that anyway, So they would ask me a series 245 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: of questions, supposedly to create a baseline. Now this is 246 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: debatable whether or not this actually, you know, may any 247 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: real difference. Next, what they would probably do is ask 248 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: a control question, and this would be a again a 249 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: simple question where it's just to uh, to measure your 250 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: your response. And then they would alternate that with a 251 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: question that actually relates back to what they're looking into, right, 252 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: and that would that would be why they ask the 253 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: people who are training to work with polygraphs to learn 254 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: about question construction, because they want to learn how to 255 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: phrase uh different topics in ways to see if they 256 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: can get a response from me. Yeah, so you get 257 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: you get your design questions or what they're called, were 258 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: the ones that have to do with your actual what 259 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: the purpose for the polygraph. So let's say, look, the 260 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: first question might be uh, um, is your name Jonathan 261 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: Strickland And I would say yes, And then the next 262 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: question might be I don't know, and then I'd pee myself. 263 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: But the next the next question, my be might be 264 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: um more pertinent to whatever the matter is. For instance, 265 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: like like uh, were you in the Buckhead neighborhood? On 266 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: Tuesday night, and then I would say either yes or no. 267 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: And then if they suspect that I was there and 268 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: I said no, they would look at the chart to 269 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: see if the response on that question, UH was measurably 270 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: different from my response to the control questions, because if 271 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: if I'm answering the control questions honestly, and they should 272 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: be able to to know that, because the control question 273 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: should be obvious, right, it should be very obvious questions 274 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: like are there two people in the room with us, 275 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: and you'd say yes or no? UM. If you are 276 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: lying to an obvious question, then they can tell pretty 277 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: quickly if you're going to be able to to fool 278 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: the polygraph UM, which by the way, is very possible. 279 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: So they alternate these questions. They will ask a control 280 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: question now and again just to make sure that that 281 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: they're reading the results correctly, and then they will ask 282 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: one of the design questions to see if you are 283 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: telling the truth or not. UH. You can get through 284 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: an entire polygraph lying your butt off the whole way through, 285 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: and if you are able to control your responses or 286 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: you're able to boost your responses to control questions to 287 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: show that you are a nervous, nelly. Either of those 288 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: are going to make the results unreliable. They're not gonna 289 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: be able to say this guy for sure was lying 290 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: or or was telling the truth. So for instance, that 291 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: they asked me, is your name Jonathan Strickland and I 292 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: said yes, but I was able to, uh, to provoke 293 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: myself into reacting in a more um well heightened way, 294 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: it would indicate that I had lied on that even 295 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: though I told the truth. Um, and this could all 296 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: be very I can manage to do this on my own. 297 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: So in other words, I could fabricate it as if 298 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: it looks like it looks like it's a lie. And 299 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: then the next question they asked me, where you win 300 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: Buckhead on Tuesday night? And I say no, Um, I 301 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: could just relax a little bit and then it will 302 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: come up as not being a lie, and then they'll 303 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: they'll look at the results and say, well, according to this, 304 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we asked him this control question. He told 305 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: the truth, but his response was off the charts. Then 306 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: we asked him this question and he said no, and 307 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: his response was calm, clearly, he's just nervous. We can't 308 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: we can't rely on this as as information to establish 309 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: whether or not he's guilty, or or if he's telling 310 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: the truth or not. Um So, really, when you get 311 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: down to it, once you understand that, you realize the 312 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: polygraph is not a reliable tool for telling truth versus lies. 313 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that the polygraph isn't useful if you 314 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: are willing to use some psychological bullying to try and 315 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: get a confession out of someone. In fact, it's incredibly 316 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: useful if you want to try and get a confession 317 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: out of someone, and as long as that person believes 318 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: that the lie detector is doing its job and is 319 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: working properly, it's it can be incredibly effective at getting 320 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: a confession. It's but it's almost like a confession under 321 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: dure us if you think about it, because the person 322 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: is being fooled into thinking this device is doing more 323 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: than it really is. Well, how are you How are 324 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: you going to fool somebody into believing that it actually works? 325 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: All right? What could they do? Here's here's a good example. 326 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: This is not necessarily how everyone does it, but there 327 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: are police, state law enforcement officials who have done this 328 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: or examiners who have done this. Um you do a 329 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: very simple card trick, but you don't present it as 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: a card trick. What you do is you you present 331 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: the person who's being questioned. You present that person with 332 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: a deck of cards and say, pick a card, look 333 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: at it, memorize it, put it back in the deck, 334 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: you know however you want to do it. And then 335 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: you deal the cards out face up, and you just 336 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: tell the person, uh, just say that it's not your card, 337 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: whether it's your card or not, say it's not your card. Okay. 338 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: So each card that comes up, you're saying, no, that's 339 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: not it, No, that's not it, till you go through 340 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: the whole deck. Then the person goes back to supposedly 341 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: look at the results on the polygraph, comes back and 342 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: then says, our core into the polygraph, this is your card. 343 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: And they hold up the card that you picked. And 344 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: then you're convinced, oh my gosh, not only does this 345 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: thing work, it can actually work to the point where 346 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: it can it can tell the difference of one response 347 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: out of fifty two questions. Now, in reality, the examiner 348 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: has just used a very very basic card trick, and 349 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: it's a it's there are many different ways of doing 350 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: a card force where you forced someone to pick the 351 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: card you want them to pick, or you don't force them. 352 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: You just you manipulate the cards in such a way 353 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: that you know what card they picked. Easiest ways just 354 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: pay attention to what card is on the bottom of 355 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: the deck, and then you cut the cards. You put 356 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: you put the person's card they chose on the top 357 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: of the cut. You cover that up. Well, the card 358 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: that was on the bottom of the deck is gonna 359 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: come immediately before the card that person picked, So you 360 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: just look for that, like if it were the three 361 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: of Hearts, you look for the three your Hearts. Next 362 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: card that's gonna be the one that the person picked. 363 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: I just I just did a big reveal on magic tricks. 364 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: But that's a very basic one. So lots of YouTube 365 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: videos out there that show how that's done. But anyway, 366 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: you in this case, the examiner is gaming the system. 367 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: The examiner already knows what the card is, does not 368 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: need to look at the light detector at all. In fact, 369 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: the light detector probably wouldn't even help at all and 370 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 1: figuring out which card this was unless someone was just 371 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: that hyped up about, oh my god, that's my card. No, 372 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: that's not it. I mean, unless that were to happen. 373 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: The light detector wouldn't help you. But by establishing that 374 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: the light detector is so sensitive and accurate, you have 375 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: now built into the person's mind that this thing is 376 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: gonna catch you if you lie. And then you start 377 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: the questioning, and since the person now believes that if 378 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: he or she lies, it's gonna be instantly recognizable, they 379 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: might actually move ahead and just confess. So you've skipped 380 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: the whole process of having to do a light detector 381 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: test in the first place. You've scared the person into 382 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: confessing a crime. Now, of course, if the person is innocent, 383 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: that's not gonna help at all. You know, you're still 384 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: gonna have to go through the whole thing. Um, it's 385 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: only if the person is guilty and willing to confess, 386 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: if they if they don't realize that it was all 387 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: a trick to try and gain their confidence. That's just 388 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: one method. There are other ways of doing the same 389 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: sort of thing, where you tell a person to lie 390 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: and then you show them the results on the lie 391 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: detector and say, see, here's where I asked you to lie, 392 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: and you see where your response is, and that could 393 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: either be a legitimate test that they're showing them, or 394 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: it could be a pregenerated test where you're just showing 395 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: them some lines and saying, see, see where I asked 396 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: you to lie, and you see these squiggles here. Those 397 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: may or may not be your squiggles. I'm just saying 398 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: those aiggs right. Yeah, if you're like, no, obviously Jane 399 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: wasn't here lying. She's a terrible liar. I'm much better, 400 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: But yeah, they're It's it's essentially deception, is what it 401 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: boils down to. And that's not to say that every 402 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: examiner feels that this is necessary, or that every examiner 403 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 1: even thinks that what they're doing has no merit. I'm 404 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: sure most of them think that it is. Uh, it 405 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: is a completely legitimate practice, but the fact remains that 406 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: it's it's really it's just measuring your physiological response, which 407 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: is different for everybody. Yeah. Yeah, there are there some 408 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: things that people try to do to avoid giving themselves away, 409 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: So just taking sedatives or biting their tongue or sticking 410 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: attack in their shoe. There there's lots of other very 411 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: simple ones. Just simple breathing exercises can help you stay calm. 412 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: And like I said again, if you if you take 413 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: it so that you maybe you tense your muscles a 414 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: bit when you are when you're truthfully answering a control question. 415 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: If you tense your muscles that and you just increase 416 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: your breathing rate a little bit, that's gonna be enough 417 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: to boost your your pulse and to change the respiratory 418 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: reading to uh, to start fouling up the um the results. 419 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: It is not hard to learn how to fate, how 420 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: to how to fool a polygraph, or at least fooling 421 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: is probably the wrong word. How to make the results unreadable, essentially, 422 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: because if you make it so that it looks like 423 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: you're lying to answers that are obviously the truth, they 424 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: can't rely on the test as a whole. Yeah, And 425 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: I think that's why, uh, it's so controversial even now 426 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: after decades of being in use, and why so many 427 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: jurisdictions won't allow polygraphs to be submitted, and there's still 428 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: some that will, and some of them will only do 429 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: it upon the order of a judge. Like in some jurisdictions, 430 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: a judge can say can allow, has has discretion to 431 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: allow or not allow lie detective results. Um, I I 432 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: think it's it's I think that using them in any 433 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: case in a in that sense like as evidence, is terrible. 434 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: It's just a horrible idea because it's already been proven 435 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: to be unreliable. You can beat it if you know how, 436 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: and even if you don't know how, but you are anxious, 437 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: can be falsely you can give off false positives. Um. 438 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: And here's another good example. I meant to mention this 439 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: with the whole control question versus the the real questions. 440 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: So part of the problem is that you can never 441 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: really establish a good control versus real question because the 442 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: control questions aren't going to have the same emotional impact 443 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: as the real questions. Okay, so, like a control question 444 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: might be do you live at such and such address? Well, 445 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: there's no emotional attachment there, there's no sense of risk, 446 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: there's nothing like that, and you you could just say yes. 447 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: But if they say did you kill Mr so and 448 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: so blah blah blah, well that that's definitely got an 449 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: emotional attachment to it, whether you did it or not. 450 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: Just the accusation alone is enough to provoke the fight 451 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: or flight response in most people. Maybe not even most, 452 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: but in lots of people. Most is probably too too 453 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: vague word but I would I would think that a 454 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: lot of people would respond very strongly to that question 455 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: whether they had done anything or not, because it's an 456 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: emotionally charged question unless you were able to create control 457 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: questions that were also emotionally charged. Uh, you can't really 458 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: say that's a baseline. You know, it's like how was 459 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: your day? Oh it is good? Good? Did you skin 460 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: this person alive? And then wear that as address that? 461 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: Two different questions, two different levels. For some of us 462 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: we can casually answer yes to those, but others, you know, 463 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: would have a bit of a reaction to that. Sometimes 464 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: you frighten me. I just wanted you to to do that. Well, hell, 465 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: you know what springs right around the corner, and fashion 466 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: time is coming up great at any rate. So polygraph tests, uh, 467 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: I think you can safely say are great for measuring 468 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: a physiological response, not great at at ascertaining truth versus lies. 469 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: So there, it's a misnomer. Really, it's more of like 470 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: Tyler was saying, our our guest producer for the day. Uh, 471 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: it's more of a stress test than a than a 472 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: lie test. Um. Do you have anything to add to that? No? 473 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: Not really. The fact that some some pretty major cases 474 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of came down to lie detector evidence making a 475 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: big difference. Yeah, it's a little hard to imagine that, 476 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: but um, it's true. But in in several of the cases, 477 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: just because someone passes a lie detector test doesn't mean 478 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: they're innocent, And just because someone fails it doesn't mean 479 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: they're guilty. Well, it also if they fail it, they 480 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: might be guilty. If they pass it, they might be innocence. 481 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: So even in cases where lie detector tests were entered 482 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: into evidence, usually there was other evidence that really contributed 483 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: to a person's sentence of guilty. Um, that doesn't necessarily 484 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: mean that no one has ever been falsely imprisoned because 485 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: of a lie detector test. I haven't done the research 486 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: on that. I would imagine that it's probably happened, which 487 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: is unfortunate, but uh, it probably doesn't happen A lot 488 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: still shouldn't happen at all, I know. But anyway, Yeah, 489 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: but I'm glad we tackle this one because it's, uh, 490 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to think about it, and it's some The 491 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: thing that makes this so different from the ghost Hunter 492 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: Tech episode is that you know, it actually does more 493 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: or less what it's supposed to, but it's just so 494 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: unreliable that you can't count on it. Yeah. Yeah, like 495 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: I said, there is you know, a legitimate reason for 496 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: wanting to use it, right. It it does measure things. 497 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: It's just like I said, the premise that it's based 498 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: upon it itself is faulty. And that's the problem is 499 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: when you when you're when you have a faulty premise, 500 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: everything else that follows can't be relied upon. And again 501 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: talking about critical thinking, so that's another great um example. 502 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: And yeah, if you guys have other critical thinking kind 503 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: of of topics you would like us to tackle, let 504 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: us know. Now we should also point out some people 505 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: have been suggesting things that really don't fall into the 506 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: tech field. Uh. And this, since this is tech stuff 507 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: and not skeptic stuff, we can't just tackle anything, as 508 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: much as I would love to do that. But we 509 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: do have a sister podcast called Stuff from the Science 510 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: Lab that just went live not that long ago. And um, 511 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure they'd talk about scientific Yeah. I don't know 512 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: what their email addresses off the top of my head, 513 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: but as soon as this, by the time this goes live, um, 514 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: I will I be sure to make a blog post 515 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: that points people in the right direction, because I think 516 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: that that podcast would probably be the best place to 517 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: tackle skeptical matters that are non technology oriented. I mean, 518 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: I'm still going to take the tech ones. I will 519 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: find them tooth and nail, but if it's not tech 520 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: related and you still want to hear about it, it 521 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: would be a good choice. So but that brings us 522 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: to our second round of listening along. This listening mail 523 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: comes from Jason from Maryland, and he says, Hey, guys, 524 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: I read this and it reminded me of your podcast 525 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: a bit ago about easter eggs. I hope all is well. 526 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: A crazy easter egg popped up on airfare search site 527 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: kayak today. If you try searching for one way flight 528 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: from Sydney to Los Angeles to place on September twenty two, 529 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: two ten, you'll get the fictitious flight featured on a 530 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: mysterious TV show called Lost, which is true. You'll do 531 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: get the Oceanic Airways flight. Um. I've never actually seen 532 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: an episode of Lost, but I went ahead and tried 533 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: this anyway and it did work. Yeah. Cool. I then 534 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: was mauled by a polar bear. I have no idea 535 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: what that's about. Yeah, I don't either. I haven't watched 536 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: the show either. We're lane if you want to write 537 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: and tell us how lame we are tech stuff at 538 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Remember when we get the blogs, 539 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: we get the live show every Tuesday one pm. Uh. 540 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: I hope you guys are are tuning into that. It's 541 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: been a really fun experience so far. We've we've managed 542 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: to to to alienate Apple fans and when does fans alike? 543 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: All right? I hope we can continue. I think Lennox 544 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: is next. Just you know, it all depends on what's 545 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: in the news. We'll see, so tune into that. Read 546 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: the blogs, check out the website. Check out this article 547 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: on how light detectors work. It's a, like we said, 548 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: a very good article, and we will talk to you 549 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: again really soon for more on this and thousands of 550 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com and 551 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: be sure to check out the new tech stuff blog 552 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: now on the house stuff Works homepage. Brought to you 553 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are 554 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: you