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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Crime Round DUB.

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Speaker 2: I'm Cheryl McCollum and I am joined as always with.

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Speaker 1: The one and only Nancy Grace. Good morning, Good morning.

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Speaker 3: Good morning. How are you, Cheryl?

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Speaker 4: I am fantastic because I watched justice be served yesterday

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Speaker 4: in Athens, Georgia, with the conviction of Lake and Riley's killer.

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Speaker 3: You know Antonio Vora may He rotten Hill. Did you

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Speaker 3: notice when he was sentenced He's had no emotion at all.

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Speaker 3: The most painful part for me. I mean, family friends

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Speaker 3: testified and gave statements in aggravation. But when the video

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Speaker 3: was played of when the mom learned Lake and This

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Speaker 3: is dead and she had to just lay down on

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Speaker 3: the ground, she was in so much pain. I can't

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Speaker 3: get that out of my mind. Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: You know when Sheila Ross stood up and said, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to play.

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Speaker 2: One minute, only one minute of the impact this family

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Speaker 2: has felt, family, friends, and community.

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Speaker 1: It was gut wrenching video I think I've ever.

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Speaker 2: Seen, because you knew watching it when she got out

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Speaker 2: of that truck what she was fixing to find out

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Speaker 2: and learn, even though on some level you could tell

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Speaker 2: she already knew. And you know, I thought about.

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Speaker 1: You, you've been.

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Speaker 2: There, you've gotten that death notification, and watching her she

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Speaker 2: laid down on her back and then she just had

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Speaker 2: to turn almost in the fetal position, Sobby and to me,

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 3: I appreciated their statements and they meant so much in court,

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Speaker 3: the family and the friends. But when you're reading off

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Speaker 3: of a statement, I mean, it can never it can

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Speaker 3: never replicate what happened at the moment, the moment you

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Speaker 3: discovered the death, and it was just so raw and painful,

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Speaker 3: and the dichotomy of Jose Antonio Vara just sitting there

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Speaker 3: like a nerf ball, does nothing, no response, no remorse, nothing,

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Speaker 3: And I think back on Lacan and the brutal attack

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Speaker 3: that take down her, fighting, fighting like hell, and then

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Speaker 3: when she refused to be his rape victim, him batching

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Speaker 3: her head in with that rock still covered in her blood.

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Speaker 3: It was just seeing the mother lying on the ground

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Speaker 3: that way, I just I can't get out of my mind.

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Speaker 1: Eryl, And you know it was so just visually correct.

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Speaker 2: Because you talk about the twins a lot, I talk

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Speaker 2: about hunting Carolina a lot. I still cannot convey to

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Speaker 2: you what they mean to me, what their everyday jokes

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Speaker 2: or you know when they make fun of my parents.

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Speaker 1: In or cooking or driving.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I can't tell you you know.

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Speaker 1: How beautiful I think they are, how smart I think

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Speaker 1: they are.

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Speaker 2: How talented and athletic and funny and giving and loving.

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Speaker 1: I can't express that verbally. I can't do it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Cheryl, think about it. Just think about it,

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Speaker 3: if you can let yourself think about it. It's hard

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Speaker 3: for me to allow myself to think about this, But

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Speaker 3: imagine trying to put your loss of your child down

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Speaker 3: on paper and read it in a court of law,

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Speaker 3: the killer's sentencing. I mean, I don't even know if

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Speaker 3: I could walk out of that courtroom.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I could walk in or out

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 2: I would almost pray that I lost my mind and

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't understand it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were there every day, and I remember I

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Speaker 3: remember every day. It's all like a blur. Like people

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Speaker 3: I knew, you know, in high school, people that I

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Speaker 3: knew later in college, say hey, do you remember that time.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I have no memory of it at all.

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Speaker 3: Because Cheryl, for a couple of years before and after

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Speaker 3: Keith Murder, I have all sorts of memory loss. I

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Speaker 3: don't have mis memory. I don't have false memory. I

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Speaker 3: just I can't remember. It's all a horrible, horrible blur.

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Speaker 3: But I do remember going to court every day, and

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Speaker 3: my father, who as you know, work for the railroad,

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Speaker 3: would have to take off of work and drive me,

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Speaker 3: oh gosh, almost two hours each way to the courthouse.

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Speaker 3: But my mother has told me that she also went.

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Speaker 3: I have no recollection of that at all. Both of them,

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Speaker 3: who you know, we were poor. You know, there's no

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Speaker 3: question about that. Taking off of work, not getting paid

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Speaker 3: and driving me two hours each way to a courthouse.

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Speaker 3: And all I can remember is sitting in the back

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Speaker 3: seat of my dad's car, just crying or just lying

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Speaker 3: their numb. I had to lay down in the back

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Speaker 3: seat and then get out and go into the courtroom.

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Speaker 3: It just, oh gosh.

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Speaker 1: And that family you said her friends and family have

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Speaker 1: a life sentence.

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Speaker 3: They really do. And you don't know until it happened

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Speaker 3: to you how it affects your life. It changed, the course,

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Speaker 3: of course, my career, but that's nothing. I'm supposed to

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Speaker 3: be Shakespeare and English professor for Pete's sake, but that's nothing.

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Speaker 3: What it has changed. I mean, I couldn't stand the

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Speaker 3: thought of ever remarrying. For Pete's say, that was out

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Speaker 3: of the question, and so what did I do. I

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Speaker 3: waited until I was in my forties to get married

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Speaker 3: and then tried to have a family, and it was

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Speaker 3: so late that Lucy and I almost died for Pete's

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Speaker 3: sake because of the effect that murder had on me

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Speaker 3: over twenty years before. It just and then the way

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Speaker 3: I you know, when I watched the children drive out

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Speaker 3: of the driveway, I can't help but think will I

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Speaker 3: ever see them again? You know, it changes everything.

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Speaker 1: Nancy. You started telling me years ago, how am I

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Speaker 1: ever going to let them go off to college?

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Speaker 2: And now you're doing college visits and I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: it goes through your mind. They're not just going to

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Speaker 2: pull out of the driveway one day.

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Speaker 1: They're going to pull out and move out.

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Speaker 2: And that is something that you know you watched again

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Speaker 2: Lacoln's mom. I mean, here was on this beautiful campus,

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Speaker 2: a safe campus, and surrounded by wonderful.

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Speaker 1: People, and then here is this person that just takes

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Speaker 1: it all away.

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Speaker 3: You know, so many of the visuals and the trial

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Speaker 3: have deeply, deeply affected me and anyone that was in

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Speaker 3: the courtroom. I mean, I know you were a lot,

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Speaker 3: but sitting in the courtroom. Three things, really, I can't

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Speaker 3: get them out of my mind. One is the video

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Speaker 3: caught of Jose and Antonio Ebara hiding stalking in a

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Speaker 3: densely wooded area, just waiting for a victim to come by,

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Speaker 3: sucking on a styre froam cup of alcohol, and he's

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Speaker 3: caught on video. Idiot, I mean, there was a video

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Speaker 3: cam catching a lot of what was going on. And

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Speaker 3: then the second thing, I mean, that's intent right there.

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Speaker 3: He stood there and waited, waited to see a woman

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Speaker 3: go by. The second thing, Cheryl is seeing him in court,

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Speaker 3: sitting like about eleven feet behind him, and seeing his

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Speaker 3: lack of remorse, lack of emotion. A complete sociopath, which

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Speaker 3: means I've been told by shrinks that you do not

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Speaker 3: feel empathy or sympathy with other people. You like, if

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Speaker 3: you see someone in pain or suffering, you don't think,

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Speaker 3: oh no, how can I help them? None of that

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Speaker 3: bothers you. Okay, that's him. That's the second thing. And

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Speaker 3: the third thing. Many people think of Lacan in depth.

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Speaker 3: They think of the crime scene photos of her a

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Speaker 3: lying there with her head disfigured. But I will always

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Speaker 3: think of Lacan and one of the last idiots off

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Speaker 3: her running free a lot happy, full of vitality, hopes

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Speaker 3: and dreams, and running running free.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, my pet peeve about Peeping Tom. I

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Speaker 1: cannot stand that term.

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Speaker 3: You know how many rate and murder cases I prosecuted

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Speaker 3: and when I would look back in criminal history and

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Speaker 3: arrest Peeping Tom.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and I think the charge should be criminal surveillance.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to stay on that bandwagon until I'm

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Speaker 2: off this earth.

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Speaker 1: Keeeping Tom does not even again to its sounds like

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Speaker 1: a game exactly, and then go.

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Speaker 3: Seek or you know how you you pay pikaboo with

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Speaker 3: a baby, So.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like it lessens what this criminal is doing.

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Speaker 2: And we watched Joseah Bara for seventy three minutes try

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Speaker 2: to gain entry into an apartment, hide behind trees, walk

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Speaker 2: down to the path, and come back and again his

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Speaker 2: roommate said, oh, that's an area he went a lot. Well,

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Speaker 2: you and I already knew that he had scoped out

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Speaker 2: the first floor apartment.

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Speaker 1: He had scoped out where he could hide and attack

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Speaker 1: a jogger from the back.

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Speaker 2: We already knew that this was an accomplished predator.

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Speaker 3: I just wish the judge could have done more. I

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Speaker 3: do for some reason, life without role just doesn't seem

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Speaker 3: like enough, does it, Because he's never going to feel

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Speaker 3: any pain or remorse, and we're stuck with paying for

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Speaker 3: him for the rest of his life. Now, there's always

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Speaker 3: a fear. Remember Charles Manson got the death penalty and

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Speaker 3: Wepsie they changed the law and its community to life.

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Speaker 3: I just hope and pray that some quote enlightened legislature

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Speaker 3: or assembly doesn't suddenly decide, you know, life for that

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Speaker 3: barul is cruel and unusual and everybody walks free.

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Speaker 1: The cruel and unusual happened to Lacan Riley.

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Speaker 3: It really did. That poor girl, That poor girl and

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Speaker 3: that poor family.

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Speaker 1: You know, I cried several times yesterday. I cried.

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Speaker 2: Frienkindly spoke and said she was wearing one of her

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Speaker 2: shirts that she had been given.

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Speaker 1: I cried when her mama spoke.

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Speaker 2: Crowd Winter Stepdaddy got up and read the letter that

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Speaker 2: Lacan had written to her future husband.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if that didn't tell that child's.

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Speaker 3: Heart, you know, I'm just wondering how the friends are

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Speaker 3: going forward and how it's affecting them. Seeing them in

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Speaker 3: court yesterday was just brutal, brutal. But again, did you

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Speaker 3: notice whose e Borah sat there nothing, with no emotion

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Speaker 3: at all. What do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: Well, he's a sociopath, psychopath and a piece of crap.

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Speaker 2: But you know, one great thing that I heard Sheila

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Speaker 2: Row say that I think is so important is when

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Speaker 2: she told the judge there's one person, Lauren Phillips that

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Speaker 2: will inherit this sentence and she is now an only

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Speaker 2: child and she should not have.

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Speaker 1: To worry that he is ever going to be released.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was so powerful and accurate.

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Speaker 3: I will never forget when I was working at Court

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Speaker 3: TV and I read an email from one of the

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Speaker 3: viewers that said, did you know Keith's killer has been released?

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Speaker 3: And I had no idea, And I just would dread

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Speaker 3: the day that this family gets some sort of a

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Speaker 3: notification of some type. I don't know. Just the thought

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Speaker 3: that he is going to be behind bars, getting his

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Speaker 3: ged and having three hots and a cod and probably

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Speaker 3: getting his tablet his iPad like Murdoch has just it's

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Speaker 3: just too raw to think about it right now. But

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Speaker 3: he did get life without parole. That's the maccentence other

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Speaker 3: than the death penalty. A lot of second guessing this

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Speaker 3: morning about why the death penalty was not sought. To me,

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Speaker 3: that is a waste of effort. Now, that was an

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Speaker 3: argument that should have been made a long time ago,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't, and I'm very curious about that. But

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Speaker 3: that said, now we have to move forward because guess what, Cheryl,

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Speaker 3: there are other cases that need you. There are other

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Speaker 3: cases that need me. And it reminds me so much

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Speaker 3: of trying cases and you devote all your time, all

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Speaker 3: your energy, your blood, sweat and tears literally, and then

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Speaker 3: the verdicts read and everybody leaves the courtroom and you're

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Speaker 3: just sitting there going, what the hell just happened? And

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Speaker 3: then somehow you have to start all over again with

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Speaker 3: the next case. And that's what we have to do now.

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Speaker 3: It pains me to know that her family can't just

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Speaker 3: pick up and keep going. They're never going to be

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Speaker 3: able to.

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Speaker 1: And you always say to me, forward onward.

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Speaker 2: Somebody else does need us, and that's exactly what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do today.

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Speaker 3: Cheryl, thank you for letting me be a part of

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Speaker 3: today's crime Round. Up, and I just imagine Laken. You know,

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Speaker 3: every morning I get up for five and I have

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Speaker 3: to go outside do chores. I look up at the

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Speaker 3: sky and I see the stars are still out, and

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Speaker 3: I imagine that Laken is up there as one of

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Speaker 3: those stars. So let's just keep.

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Speaker 2: Going, Cheryl, y'all, I'm going to tell you how we're

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Speaker 2: going to end the crime roundup. We are going to

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Speaker 2: have eighteen minutes of silence for every minute that lake

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Speaker 2: In fought her killer, and you finished driving, and you

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Speaker 2: finish what you're doing at work, and finish what you're

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Speaker 2: doing around the house, and you think about the next

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Speaker 2: eighteen minutes she was.

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Speaker 5: Fighting for her life be made.

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Speaker 2: Then at Devil I'm Cheryl mc column with Nancy Grays,

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Speaker 2: and this is a crime round up. M