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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, grissol indeed we do. It is

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Speaker 1: election day in the state of Virginia. That is what

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Speaker 1: we are focused on. There are other elections going on

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Speaker 1: around the country as well. We've got the closing messages

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Speaker 1: from the candidates the very last polls. This thing certainly

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Speaker 1: seems to be coming down to the wire. We've got

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Speaker 1: some new pulling out of the Democratic Party, in particular

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Speaker 1: about how they may not be sold on another term

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Speaker 1: of Biden. We'll tell you about that, big Epstein update.

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Speaker 1: The latest financial elite to be caught up in scandal there,

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Speaker 1: John Stewart, his new show. I got to tell you, guys,

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Speaker 1: I've been watching it. It's phenomenal. But he did an

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Speaker 1: interview with banker Jamie Diamond. It's extraordinary. We're going to

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Speaker 1: bring you some of the highlights of that of Stuart

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Speaker 1: basically calling out Diamond to his face about what his

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Speaker 1: actual priorities are. We got a great guest on today,

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Speaker 1: him Mac. He's written a book. He's an investigative journalist.

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Speaker 1: He's been focused on the way that the NRA has

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Speaker 1: turned into an utter and complete grift, wildly divorced from

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Speaker 1: the actual interest of their members. So whether whatever side

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Speaker 1: of that issue you're ultimately on, it's a phenomenal look

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Speaker 1: at the way that these DC institutions just become totally

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Speaker 1: corrupt and self dealing. But we wanted to start with

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Speaker 1: the reconciliation negotiations. As I just mentioned yesterday, Senator Joe Manchin,

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Speaker 1: who you know Joe Biden, had assured us was on

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Speaker 1: board with this deal, that everybody was aligned all of

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Speaker 1: these things. He decided to come out and give a

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Speaker 1: press conference and basically pour cold water all over this

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Speaker 1: entire deal. Let's take a listen. With the factors in mind,

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Speaker 1: and all of these factors that we've spoken about, I've

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Speaker 1: worked in good faith for months with all of my

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Speaker 1: colleagues to find a middle ground on a fiscally and

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Speaker 1: I report, I repeat that, a fiscally responsible piece of

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Speaker 1: legislation that fixes the flows of the twenty seventeen Trump

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Speaker 1: tax bill that I thought was waited far, far too

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Speaker 1: far for the high end earners and the needs of

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Speaker 1: the American families and children. However, as more of the

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Speaker 1: real details outlined the basic framework are released, what I

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Speaker 1: see are shell games, budget gimmicks that make the real

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Speaker 1: cost of the so called one point seventy five trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar bill estimated to be almost twice that amount if

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Speaker 1: the full time is run out if you extended it permanently,

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Speaker 1: and that we haven't even spoken about this is a

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Speaker 1: recipe for economic crisis. None of us should ever misrepresent

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Speaker 1: to the American people what the real cost of legislation is. Well,

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Speaker 1: I've worked hard to find a path to compromise. It's

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Speaker 1: obvious compromise is not good enough. For a lot of

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Speaker 1: my colleagues in Congress. It's all or nothing, and their

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Speaker 1: position doesn't seem to change unless we agree to everything.

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Speaker 1: Enough is enough, So he says, I'm open to supporting

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Speaker 1: a final bill that helps move our country forward, but

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Speaker 1: I'm equally open to voting against a bill that hurts

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Speaker 1: our country. You know a lot of what he said there.

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Speaker 1: I just find so disingenuous about the scoring of it

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Speaker 1: and how much it costs. Of course, these same concerns

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Speaker 1: never ever raised about the size of our national security,

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Speaker 1: state military spending, pentagon budgeting. None of that is ever

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Speaker 1: a concern. But suddenly, in the moment you want people

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Speaker 1: to have like paid leave or childcare or universal pre K,

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Speaker 1: then it's, oh my god, I don't know if we

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Speaker 1: can spend all this money. So you'll recall that progressive

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Speaker 1: position has always been the one thing they've been consistent

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Speaker 1: about is that the bipartisan infrastructure deal that people like

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Speaker 1: Mansion and Cares and Cinema and others want has to

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Speaker 1: be tied together with the reconciliation bill. Well, yesterday, effectively,

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere, they completely abandon that position, folding. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a look at this tweet that has the details

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Speaker 1: here from Promeilagiapol. She is, of course, the chair of

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Speaker 1: the Congressional Progressive Caucus. She signals that Mansion's comments will

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Speaker 1: not impact Progressives, that they still plan to vote for

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill and the one point seventy five trillion

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Speaker 1: dollar plan. She says, the President says he can get

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Speaker 1: fifty one votes for the bill. We are going to

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Speaker 1: trust him. We're tired of continuing to wait for one

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Speaker 1: or two people. Just so you know how perplexing it

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Speaker 1: is that they suddenly folded and changed position, because their

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Speaker 1: position had always been we got to actually get a

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Speaker 1: vote from the Senate on the reconciliation bill before we

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Speaker 1: move on the infrastructure package. Jake Sherman, who's congressional watcher,

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Speaker 1: he talks about how bizarre it is that the Progressives

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Speaker 1: just folded here so now Jipaul is going to send

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure bill to Biden's desk without assurances on the

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Speaker 1: Build Back Better plan. Progressives are in a much worse

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Speaker 1: spot than they were last week. Mansion is saying he'd

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Speaker 1: be fine voting against build back Better. What a bizarre turn.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we are this morning, Zagara.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing because whenever I saw that, I almost

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Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. I mean for months and months and

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Speaker 1: even last week the House essential did not have a

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Speaker 1: vote on the infrastructure bill because the Progressive said that

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't vote for it. Yeah, and then he came

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Speaker 1: out to give a speech specifically where he says, well,

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Speaker 1: hold on a second. And actually, the New York Times

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Speaker 1: did a pretty decent job of writing this up. Let's

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Speaker 1: put that tear sheet up there on the screen. Headline

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Speaker 1: is Mansion raises doubts on safety Net bill, complicating path

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Speaker 1: to a quick vote. And now what's really important in

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Speaker 1: that Mansion tear sheet here is that he has gone

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Speaker 1: out and said that he wants a CBO score. He

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Speaker 1: wants like an independent evaluation of the actual effects of

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Speaker 1: the bill. All kinds of different tactics and things which

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Speaker 1: are designed in order to significantly delay one eventual passage.

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Speaker 1: And also people should remember we still have to deal

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Speaker 1: with reconciliation itself, and I want to make sure people

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Speaker 1: can understand reconciliation. The way that it has to move

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Speaker 1: through the United States Senate means that there's all this

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Speaker 1: arcane Senate procedure that comes with the passes of such

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Speaker 1: a bill. You have to have something called a vote

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Speaker 1: o rama, where people are allowed to add amendments to something,

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Speaker 1: which means that can take twenty four hours or so.

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Speaker 1: You have to have different committees move each individual piece

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Speaker 1: of the legislation, part of the legislation out of their committee,

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Speaker 1: all of which a Republican can object to and make

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Speaker 1: it take even longer. So we could be looking at

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Speaker 1: a two to three to even possibly a month or

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Speaker 1: more timeline on the bill itself, given mansions objections. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, he's demanding the vote right now

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Speaker 1: on infrastructure. And of course the Progressives knew this, and

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Speaker 1: they said, well, we're gonna make them wait until they

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Speaker 1: pass both bills. But effectively they have given up all leverage.

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Speaker 1: What stops Joe Manchin from saying, actually, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to vote for this thing now that we've gone

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Speaker 1: ahead and passed my priority. But Crystal, it's not just them.

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Speaker 1: Remember we have Gottheimer and many other you know, quote

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Speaker 1: unquote moderates within the House. They have never wanted to

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Speaker 1: vote for the Build Back Better bill. They have been

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Speaker 1: pretty consistent and open that they only want did one

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Speaker 1: of the bills, which is why they wanted that one

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Speaker 1: to move forward. So I think it very much looks

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Speaker 1: like a situation where you know, that infrastructure bill could pass,

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Speaker 1: oh and then all of a sudden, you know, CBO

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Speaker 1: score is something this way, which by the way, has

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Speaker 1: happened so many times here in Washington, back with the

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Speaker 1: tax cuts bill, where they had to like, actually the

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Speaker 1: CBO is fake during the Trump the Trump ears the

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Speaker 1: Bush tax cuts. I mean, this has happened over and

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Speaker 1: over again. I know can sound a bit arcane, but

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Speaker 1: really what it means is that in effect, Mansion is

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Speaker 1: demanding things which are going to even if he does

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Speaker 1: vote for it, it's going to take a long time.

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Speaker 1: The Progressive said, okay, fine, though, because of reasons, we

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Speaker 1: will go ahead and vote for the infrastructure bill, which

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Speaker 1: leaves the future of the Build Back Better agenda, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the social spending very much in doubt,

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Speaker 1: while the infrastructure bill is very possible. Yes, I mean,

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Speaker 1: look it could still pass. I have no idea, but ye. Well,

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Speaker 1: so okay, one more piece of the story and then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about what progressives may be thinking here. Things

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Speaker 1: are going so bad with the Biden administration that even

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Speaker 1: Democratic donors are basically abandoning ship. We have some reporting

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Speaker 1: here from Brian Schwortz over at CNBC that we can

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Speaker 1: throw up on the screen. Democratic donors are pulling their

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Speaker 1: dollars for the mid term because they're so disgusted with

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Speaker 1: the total lack of ability to pass anything and get

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Speaker 1: any sort of significant agenda moving through Congress. So everyone

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Speaker 1: effectively dissatisfied with where things are. And what hangs over

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Speaker 1: all of this is Democratic donors starting to hold back

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Speaker 1: midterm donations over infighting in Congress and also the Virginia race.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I was about to say, hangs over

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Speaker 1: all of this. So it doesn't look particularly great for

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Speaker 1: Terry mccaulliff's in Virginia today. He may pull it off.

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Speaker 1: As I said yesterday, this is already a disaster for

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Speaker 1: Democrats and if he loses, it's got Scott brown in

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Speaker 1: two thous and eight vibes all over it. So this

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Speaker 1: is already a really bad situation, and Progressives being the

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Speaker 1: scaredy cats that they are and hating anytime the media

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Speaker 1: is like mean to them or has anything critical to

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Speaker 1: say about them. They're worried that they're going to get

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Speaker 1: blamed for a loss if Terry Mcalliff does lose in Virginia,

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Speaker 1: that they're going to be the blames going to be

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Speaker 1: pinned on them. Why did you guys hold up the agenda?

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Speaker 1: Why did you insist on having these bills tied together?

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Speaker 1: Why didn't you vote on the infrastructure package last week?

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Speaker 1: And so they've sort of preemptively folded so that they

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Speaker 1: can avoid any sort of oh my god, we can't

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Speaker 1: have the media mad at us. Ryan Grim made this

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Speaker 1: point in a tweet that we can take a look at,

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Speaker 1: basically saying that this has all of the hallmarks of

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Speaker 1: progressives being fearful of being blamed for that Lossing the CPC,

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Speaker 1: changing course and now pushing for a vote on both

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Speaker 1: the bipartisan bill and reconciliation before Mansion is on board

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Speaker 1: feels like a caucus cracking under the threat of being

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Speaker 1: absurdly blamed if mccauliff loses. Now here's the other calculation here, Sager,

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Speaker 1: which is apparently Biden and Pelosi have really assured progressives that, look,

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Speaker 1: Manson is saying whatever Mansion is saying, he's posturing for

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Speaker 1: the West Virginia, you know, more red leading state for

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Speaker 1: the home audience. But in the end, if this comes

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Speaker 1: to a vote, he is going to vote for it,

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Speaker 1: and so is Cinema. That seems to be with the

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Speaker 1: messages behind closed doors. What gives them that confidence? I

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Speaker 1: have no idea that might be true. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have seen Mansion before sort of posture in this way

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Speaker 1: so he can assert his independence from the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: play to the home state, and then ultimately fall in

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Speaker 1: line with what they want him to do. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't have any confidence. I don't know why progressives

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Speaker 1: have any confidence that will ultimately be the case when

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Speaker 1: it's been very clear that business interests are looking for

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Speaker 1: any way they possibly can to pull vote to kill

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Speaker 1: the larger agenda. And then you still got Kirson Cinema

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Speaker 1: hanging out there, and lord knows what that lady, You'll

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Speaker 1: do when she's just looking for her next payday seeming yeah, no, correct,

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Speaker 1: and that this is the issue, which is that how

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Speaker 1: can you possibly take the assurance unless it actually comes

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Speaker 1: from the mouth of the two of them themselves. I

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Speaker 1: actually tend to believe Joe Manchin whenever he speaks publicly,

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Speaker 1: almost all every single time, anytime he's said raised an objection,

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Speaker 1: that objection has been legitimate and what he has been saying.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know why they would say that, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have an assurance he's eventually going to do it.

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Speaker 1: He literally said, I still may not vote for it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to be inclined to believe him whenever

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Speaker 1: he says that publicly, because he has already done that

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Speaker 1: in the past. And you know, look all these closed

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Speaker 1: door things. What good is the word of the president

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Speaker 1: when he's not the person actually making the vote? What

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Speaker 1: good is the word of Nancy Pelosi when she's not

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Speaker 1: the one who is making the vote? So very tenuous

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Speaker 1: ground on which to bet on. We are seeing a

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Speaker 1: massive fold in real time in the public sphere. And

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Speaker 1: you know, this whole thing about posturing, I don't believe

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Speaker 1: it because seventy five percent of the American people don't

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Speaker 1: even know what's in this bill, or they know quote

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Speaker 1: some of it, which essentially means that it's just like

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Speaker 1: floating in the ether and nobody really has any idea.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all of the politics of this have been

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Speaker 1: completely ridiculous in the way that I think really everybody

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Speaker 1: is handling themselves and you are just seeing once again,

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Speaker 1: like a total collapse in fortitude ahead of the holiday

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Speaker 1: season and more. I think a lot of it just

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Speaker 1: has to do it. They need to check, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the scoreboard. They don't really care whether it's a

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Speaker 1: good goal or not necessarily and guess what, you know

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Speaker 1: that is really going to come back to bite them

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Speaker 1: in the future. Let me talk about a couple of

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Speaker 1: substantive things to your point there. Number one, if the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill passes, in the Build Back Better plan does

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Speaker 1: not pass, that is a net negative that makes actually

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Speaker 1: makes climate change worse. So if that's your issue, and

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Speaker 1: as progressives they've always said no climate, no deal, if

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Speaker 1: that's something you really care about, which frankly, I think

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Speaker 1: we should all be very concerned about, just passing the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill actively makes things worse. So the scenario that

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Speaker 1: progresses the possible scenario progressives have set up here by

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Speaker 1: caving potentially makes the climate situation even worse than it

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Speaker 1: was before if just infrastructure passes. That's number one. Number

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Speaker 1: two we talked about. Matt Burnick has been all over

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Speaker 1: analyzing the childcare proposal, that is one of the few

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Speaker 1: things that actually remains in the Build Back Better agenda,

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Speaker 1: and he's found a major additional glaring issue with it.

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Speaker 1: Outside of the fact that it's very likely to raise

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Speaker 1: costs significantly by thousands and thousands of dollars from middle

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Speaker 1: class families who because of the way it's so complicated

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Speaker 1: and its means tested, et cetera. Another way that they

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Speaker 1: made it complicated is by kicking the administration of it

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Speaker 1: to the states. Well, we have been to this play before.

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Speaker 1: We know that when Democrats pass social programs at the

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Speaker 1: federal government, they say, hey, now, states, you've got the

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Speaker 1: chance to go and implement it. A lot of red

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Speaker 1: states say, no, thank you, We're not going forward with this,

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Speaker 1: even if it would dramatically benefit their citizens. Obviously we

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Speaker 1: saw this with the Affordable Care Act. So you have

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Speaker 1: any number of red states who may just not take

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Speaker 1: up this program altogether, and it happens that you know,

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Speaker 1: disproportionately black and brown children are in southern states. There

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Speaker 1: were led by Republicans where it. So he did the

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Speaker 1: math and said, effectively, a majority of black children may

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Speaker 1: not be impacted by this program, may not have the

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Speaker 1: benefit of this program at all. So even the provisions

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Speaker 1: that got left here, and I never want to leave

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Speaker 1: the substance out, what is left in this bill. You've

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Speaker 1: got one year extension of the child tax credit, You've

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Speaker 1: got Universal pre K for six years, you've got this

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Speaker 1: childcare proposal. You've got not medicare dental and hearing and vision,

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Speaker 1: you've just got hearing that got left. And you have

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Speaker 1: a variety of tax cuts, none of which get to

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Speaker 1: the extreme wealth concentrations that we've talked about here. Medicare,

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Speaker 1: prescription drug pricing ultimately left out, free community college ultimately

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Speaker 1: left out. Climate provisions dramatic, dramatically slashed. So the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is incredibly uninspiring, and it looks like the progressive

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Speaker 1: collapse here is being driven by the fear that they

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Speaker 1: will be blamed for mccaulliff's loss if that does in

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Speaker 1: fact happen today, which also I think gives you a

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Speaker 1: sense of the total lack of confidence that Democrats have

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Speaker 1: going into election day about Terry Mcalliff and Lannion Kill. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a good segue. Why don't we get to it?

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Speaker 1: Very good segue. Okay, So, as I mentioned before, today

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Speaker 1: is election day in my home state of Virginia. I

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Speaker 1: need to get my act together and go vote at

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Speaker 1: some point today. And this is big news. Our friend

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Speaker 1: Kyle Condick over at Larry Sabatoe's Crystal Ball they did

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Speaker 1: their final analysis of this race. Let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: throw that tear sheet up on the screen and in it.

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Speaker 1: They have long had this race as lean Democrat. They

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Speaker 1: have moved on election eve the race to lean Republican.

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Speaker 1: They think that the metrics they're seeing slightly favor Glenn Young.

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Speaker 1: Can let me read a little bit of what they

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Speaker 1: say here. Let's assume the bulk of the polls are

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Speaker 1: correct and that the race ends up being very close

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Speaker 1: either way. Both of those possible results. A narrow wind

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Speaker 1: by either candidate would suggest a significant fall off for

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Speaker 1: Democrats from their strong Virginia performances in the Trump era

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Speaker 1: and represent at the very least a bright red check

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Speaker 1: engine light at the midpoint of the Democrats' journey from

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Speaker 1: last year's presidential race to next year's midterm. I think

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Speaker 1: another really important thing that Kyle goes through here. Listen,

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Speaker 1: if you're not in Virginia, why should you care about Virginia. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you look at recent history in particular, Virginia actually

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Speaker 1: has been quite a good bell weather for which direction

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Speaker 1: the national winds are blowing. It hasn't always been that

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Speaker 1: way because politics used to be a little bit more localized. Now,

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Speaker 1: what happens at the state level is pretty reflective of

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Speaker 1: the mood of the country, who's energized, who's depressed, and

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Speaker 1: the sort of state of the national politics, writ Large

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Speaker 1: writes in summary, three of the last four Virginia elections

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Speaker 1: did end up being bellweathers for the future. Perhaps the

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Speaker 1: surprising closeness of McCall's twenty thirteen victory also ended up

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Speaker 1: being something of a harbinger for twenty fourteen as well.

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Speaker 1: The Virginia results from the recent more distant paths are

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Speaker 1: more mixed. But what we've seen is after Obama, Bob

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Speaker 1: McDonald Republican gets elected pretty strongly too, and that portends

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Speaker 1: the Tea Party wave. And you've seen in every election

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Speaker 1: since then, the way that the Virginia results effectively foreshadow

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Speaker 1: what's coming for you at the national level. So what

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Speaker 1: they're saying here is number one, they think, ever so slightly,

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Speaker 1: the polls and the metrics favor Young Can. He seems

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Speaker 1: to really have the momentum going into election day. This

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Speaker 1: is the polar opposite of what happened in California, whereas

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Speaker 1: things got more real, that's exactly it. Voters say, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I gotta go out and vote for Gavin

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Speaker 1: newsom Here Youngkin seems to be on the march, and

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Speaker 1: the polls have continued to tighten and tighten and actually

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Speaker 1: show him up. Here's the very last five point thirty

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Speaker 1: eight average of polls, and it has the race very

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Speaker 1: close one point, but with Young Cain up by one point.

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Speaker 1: We could throw that graphic up on the screen. You

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Speaker 1: can see McCall iff led almost the entire time up

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Speaker 1: to the very end, and now you have seen Young

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Speaker 1: Cain serge. Of course, we had that Fox News poll

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Speaker 1: that was definitely an outlier that had Young Can up

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Speaker 1: by eight That would certainly be affecting those averages. But

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Speaker 1: you can see just how close this thing ultimately, is

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Speaker 1: it really is amazing in the closing days of what's

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Speaker 1: happening here with the one point increase on Young Cain.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's been Look, we obviously everybody got

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Speaker 1: burned by polls back in twenty twenty. But one of

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Speaker 1: the important things that we would try to emphasize is

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Speaker 1: that whenever it shows tight races for Democrats or leading Republicans,

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Speaker 1: I tend to believe it a little bit more. And

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Speaker 1: that's not wishful thinking. It's the given the fact that

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Speaker 1: throughout the last five years we have seen a consistent

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Speaker 1: undercounting of Republican support in the Trump era. Now this

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Speaker 1: is going to be the very first test without Trump

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Speaker 1: on the ballot and in national politics. Is the Trump

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Speaker 1: effect on poles gonna hold? I'm going to say probably yes,

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Speaker 1: given the way that so much of the coalitions have

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Speaker 1: shifted to that Bob McDonald point. You know, he won

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Speaker 1: Fairfax County last time whenever he became the governor of

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Speaker 1: the state of Virginia. This time, per Dave Wasserman over

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Speaker 1: the Political Report, Youngkin could lose that by thirty five

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Speaker 1: points and still win the governor's race because the coalition

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Speaker 1: of the voters has completely shifted in who exactly is

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Speaker 1: going to be voting for the Republican Party, and that shift,

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Speaker 1: which happened so dramatically in the last ten years, has

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Speaker 1: just not yet accounted in a lot of these polls.

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Speaker 1: So when you see Youngkin up by one, if you

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Speaker 1: consider Trump logic, he could be up by five. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's actually not outside the realm of possibility that he

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Speaker 1: wins by eight points. Now, it would be pretty crazy

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Speaker 1: if that happened. At the same time, he could also

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Speaker 1: lose by two or three, and that would tell us

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Speaker 1: that we've actually seen almost like Obama reversion to the

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Speaker 1: mean of twenty twelve. So this is a big test

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Speaker 1: for polling and the state of that as well. But

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Speaker 1: you know, finally, it all just comes down to what

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Speaker 1: is this all about? Believe the candidates when they say

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Speaker 1: what they're actually putting their money towards what they want

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Speaker 1: voters to hear. For Terry mccauliffe, it's one thing Glenn

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Speaker 1: Youngkin is tied to Donald Trump and Virginia we hate Trump.

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Speaker 1: Remember here's his closing ad. Let's take a listen. How

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Speaker 1: did we end up here? The lies the division. It

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Speaker 1: starts when we give room for hate to grow. You

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Speaker 1: also had very fine people on both sides, and for

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Speaker 1: some they embrace it. I was honored to receive President

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Speaker 1: Trump's endorsement. But leadership requires taking a stand. I have

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Speaker 1: a message to all the white supremacists and the Nazis

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Speaker 1: who came into Charlottesville today, go home. You are not

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Speaker 1: wanted in this great commonwealth. And not giving oxygen to

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Speaker 1: the lie. The single biggest issue, the most important issue,

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Speaker 1: was talking about the election fraud. Al must have thought

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Speaker 1: it the voting machine. This election is about lifting up

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Speaker 1: all Virginians and protecting our democracy, what we stand for

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Speaker 1: and what kind of commonwealth our kids will inherit. Let's

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Speaker 1: choose a better way. I'm Terry mccalliff, candidate for governor,

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Speaker 1: and I sponsored this at Trump Trump trop Trump about

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Speaker 1: Trump Charlotte ARLT. So you know, yeah, well, and I

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Speaker 1: mean it's just what was what's depressing. There's a lot depressing,

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Speaker 1: but what was depressing about his message? And I'm about

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Speaker 1: to show you Youngkin's message as well. Neither one of

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Speaker 1: them mentions a single policy issue, not one in the

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Speaker 1: state even like a state ish. Nothing, nothing about what

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Speaker 1: they would do for voters. It's just this guy's bad

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Speaker 1: and I'm good. Young Can in an attempt, I think,

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Speaker 1: to sort of refute the ties to Trump and the

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Speaker 1: insinuation that he's racist and cenophobic and all of this.

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Speaker 1: His is, you know, showcasing the diversity of Virginia. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people from all different backgrounds, sort of featured in

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Speaker 1: this ad of young Kin looking like the nice, you know,

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Speaker 1: suburban dad that he's portrayed himself as in this campaign.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at that. We have been traveling

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Speaker 1: all over this commonwealth in Virginia, and I'll tell you

430
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: it has been amazing. What's happening everywhere we go. His

431
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: crowds are like this everywhere we go. So we're in

432
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: this bus and we're asking everybody to sign the bus.

433
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: So when we're done tonight, please go outside, get a pen.

434
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 1: We got these pool pens, and sign the bus. What

435
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: that allows us to do, It allows us to have

436
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: thousands of Virginia's with us everywhere we go. Everywhere we

437
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: go signed the bus, the Friend's The reason why that's

438
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: important is because everywhere we go we're standing up for Virginians.

439
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: This is no longer a campaign. This is a movement,

440
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: very different messages, neither of them really having to do

441
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: with the state of Virginia. No, that's politics now. It

442
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: is all national completely nationalized. I'm me talking about some

443
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: of that in my radar as well about what exactly

444
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: people are discussing, whether COVID even impacts the elections anymore,

445
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: and to what extent. But it is just fascinating watching

446
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: this happen because look, if Youngkin wins by a couple

447
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: of points, let's say, a relatively decisive margin for a

448
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: blue state, like a three or four points, the Dems

449
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: are so screwed in the upcoming midterms elections. It's like

450
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: difficult to even describe. You're already so screwed. I mean,

451
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: and this is the point Kyle Knda keeps making, which

452
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,239
Speaker 1: is like, let's say Terry M. Kalff pulls it off

453
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: from a squeaker like a half point, or it's still

454
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: a disaster, total disaster. I mean, this has Scott Brown

455
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: vibes written all over it. And that was Massachusetts. I mean,

456
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: this is Virginia. It's not as blue as Massachusetts, but

457
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: at this point this should be like a ten point

458
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: DEM win, and you know they've let's give the caveats.

459
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: They do have history going against them. Oftentimes there's a

460
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: swing back to you know, a reversion back to the mean,

461
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: all of those things. But you know, Dums really kind

462
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: of felt like they had the suburbs locked up, like

463
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: this was done. There had been a realignment the suburban

464
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: These exurban voters were in their camp now and that

465
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: was that. And they, I think we already know, dramatically

466
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: overestimated how much of their support was actually about them

467
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: and how much of it was just solely opposition to Trump.

468
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get a good look tonight at just

469
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: how badly they missed calculated. And look, you never know,

470
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: maybe Terara mccaulliff, maybe the polls are wrung in his direction.

471
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom's polling was understated. Anything could possibly happen, and

472
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: maybe he wins by a more comfortable margin and they

473
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 1: breathe a little easier tomorrow. But going into this thing

474
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. Yeah, it certainly doesn't. Okay, let's go

475
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: ahead and move on here, because the polling, you know,

476
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: really does fit with a lot of what we were

477
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: talking about in terms of twenty twenty four and its

478
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: own implications. Now, look, obviously twenty twenty four long time away,

479
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: but the snapshot about how people themselves are feeling about

480
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: it is still useful to us. So let's go ahead

481
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: and put this up there on the screen and really

482
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: caught both of our eyes. Which is an NPR PBS

483
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: latest Maris poll. Democrats want Biden replaced for twenty twenty four.

484
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: Forty four percent of the Democrats in the sample want

485
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: somebody else, thirty six percent want Biden, twenty percent are unsure. Well,

486
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: that's kind of a disaster there because the president, what

487
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: he long had behind him was a Trump level similar

488
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: approval rating within the Democratic Party as in and Trump

489
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: would always do this whenever he was president. He'd be

490
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: like ninety seven percent approval rating amongst Republicans. Thank you,

491
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's like okay, but like what about rest country? Right?

492
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: And Biden often had the same thing. He had a

493
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: ninety three ninety four percent whenever he took office. Now

494
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: his approval rating is still in like the mid high

495
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: seventies eighties amongst Democrats. But when you ask whether they

496
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: want Biden to be replaced for twenty twenty four, forty

497
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: four percent or a plurality say yes. Things can change.

498
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: But this again points to one of the central dynamics

499
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: in American politics right now. Nobody affirmatively liked Joe Biden.

500
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: No one They were affectionate towards him, They were shrugged

501
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: towards him, indifferent, but nobody loved him. And when nobody

502
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: loves you, well in times of tough, times are tough,

503
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: fluck right now, then they're really going to flee away.

504
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: During Trump and all of that, the people who loved him,

505
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: they loved him, and nothing anybody they could say whatever

506
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: shift around that. Obama, as you pointed out yesterday, was

507
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: exactly the same way. There was about a thirty forty

508
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: percent part of this country who just loved Barack Obama

509
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: and there was nothing that man could do in order

510
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: to make you doubt what he was doing. Many other

511
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: people were like this in our past politics, Reagan, you know,

512
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: similar other national type figures. But when you have this

513
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: level of indifference and apathy, it makes it so where

514
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: the wins are against you, that people will abandon you

515
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: real quick. A theme I've been trying to come up

516
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: within my mind is about reversions to the mean, which

517
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: is that coronavirus was just crazy, like it changed everything.

518
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: It made everybody a short circuit haywire in all these

519
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: different directions. And as we continue to crawl out of it,

520
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: everything is starting to revert back. What was the theme

521
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen for the Joe Biden campaign, Crystal Nobody

522
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: really cared about his campaign whatsoever. It was a disaster.

523
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: Was campaigned, he didn't campaign. He was fifth in the

524
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: polls of the Democratic primary. The entire press thought he

525
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: was a total joke. He seemed completely, you know, old,

526
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: out of touch. Obama thought he was waited until he

527
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: absolutely had due to widry. Obama wouldn't even endorse him.

528
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: I know this is ancient history because he won the presidency.

529
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: But listen, as we've continue to move out and things

530
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: become normal again, try to remember what Biden was like

531
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: in actual normal days. And this is why you can

532
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: see that Democrats who were never really all that jazzed

533
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: about Joe are just very suddenly being like, Okay, screw him,

534
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: Let's go on to somebody else. That's a very dangerous dynamic.

535
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: And as I said, I'm very reluctant, and was several

536
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: months ago in order to start reaching for the Jimmy

537
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: Carter comparisons but remember this is exactly the same situation

538
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: that Carter found himself in whenever it came to the

539
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Ted Kennedy challenge. Even if it didn't work, there was

540
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: still a significant amount of discontent within the Democratic Party

541
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: at that time, which ultimately led to the collapse in

542
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Well, if you buy into this sort of

543
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: like pendulum swing theory of presidential politics, which is that

544
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: after one presidential personality, voters reached for like the polar

545
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: up opposite of that person, Joe Biden makes a kind

546
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: of sense there because where it's Trump, like he can't

547
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: resist weigh in on every freaking cultural issue ever, the

548
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: women's soccer team or you know, I mean, he just

549
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: can't even now he's said in out statements about Megan

550
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: McCain and whatever, like he cannot help himself. He has

551
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: to wait in, he has to be divisive, he has

552
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: to freak everybody out, make everybody hate each other, like

553
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: that's just how he operates. Biden is kind of the

554
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: polar opposite of that. I mean, first of all, he

555
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: barely campaigned, so he barely said anything divisive about anything.

556
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: Because he barely said anything, and we talked about early

557
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: on how these culture war things, mister potato head and

558
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: all these things would crop up. He would say nothing

559
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: about it. I'd say, we have no interest in that, right,

560
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: So he doesn't weigh in on any of that stuff.

561
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: And I think during the campaign, look, it's something I

562
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: personally appreciate because I think the culture war stuff is

563
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: an obnoxious distraction from the things that really shape people's lives.

564
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: But on the campaign this really appealed to people because

565
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: it was the opposite of Trump's divisiveness and his inflammatory

566
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: rhetoric and all of this. But now that we're at

567
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: this point where sort of the crisis is abating, sort of,

568
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: we've got new crises popping up. We have people wondering,

569
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: how did coronavirus change this country? What does normal look like?

570
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: How do we feel hopeful about our future? And how

571
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: do we make sure that regular people have a stake

572
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: in that future? Like is this country mind? What does

573
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: it look like? How am I going to make sure

574
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: that be and my kids can prospers? Do they want

575
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: a vision for the future laid out? He's just incapable

576
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: of offering that whatsoever. And so there's this level of

577
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: uncertainty and ambiguity that comes from his ineptitude and silence

578
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: that is really unnerving to people, and the things that

579
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: they thought they might be getting from him that were

580
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: departure from Trump, things like competent and competence and like

581
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: basic governance skills. They now feel like, well, we're not

582
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: getting that either, So what exactly are we get in here?

583
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: Not a whole lot I do want to on that poll,

584
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: so the wording of the question was looking ahead to

585
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, do you think your party will have

586
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: a better chance winning the White House with Biden or

587
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: with someone else? So they're not necessarily saying like, we

588
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: hate them and we want them out, but this is

589
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: no more comforting. You've got a plurality saying that someone

590
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: other than the sitting incumbent president, who has massive advantages

591
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: as a sitting incumbent president, A plurality of Democrats and

592
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: Democratic leaders say we think we'd be better off maybe

593
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: going with somebody else. An extremely important point in terms

594
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 1: of how people think someone will fare in the election

595
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: is almost as important as whether they like them or

596
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: not in terms of electability and all of that, especially

597
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 1: in the context of Trump, who Democratic voters hate, and

598
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: guess what Republican voters, they're sticking with Trump. Here we

599
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: have from the same NPR poll. Go ahead and put

600
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: that up there. Do you think Republicans have a better

601
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: chance of winning the presidency in twenty twenty four if

602
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the party's nominee or if someone else

603
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: is the party's nominee. Trump fifty percent, someone else thirty

604
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: five percent, So effectively the polar opposite, a slight majority

605
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: and definitely a plurality of Republican voters there saying that

606
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: Trump himself is the best Republican to go ahead and

607
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: run in twenty twenty four, Which gives you a lot

608
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: of the people who number one like Trump, people who

609
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: are like, eh, I'm Trump, and even Republicans who are

610
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: like I particularly like him, but I also can't stand

611
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: the Democrats. That is really what coalesces a lot of

612
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: these GOP voters. And let's put the next one up there,

613
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: because actually this is the state of American politics, writ

614
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: large amongst independent voters, quote in general, which party do

615
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: you think is the bigger threat to democracy? Democrats independents

616
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: say forty one percent, Republicans thirty seven. But here's the

617
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: really pathetic part. Amongst overall voters, as in, whenever you

618
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: include everyone, forty two percent said Dems, forty one percent

619
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: said Republicans. In other each In other words, each party

620
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: and a relative majority of the entire American electorate believes

621
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: that if they're a Republican that the Democrats are the

622
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: number one threat to democracy, and if you're a Democrat,

623
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: the Republicans are a number one threat to democracy. You

624
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: can't live this way. It's like a total cluster in

625
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: terms of the existentialism within politics. You do not want

626
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: existentialism whenever it comes to electoral democratic politics. Why because

627
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: nobody is going to get a knockout punch in a

628
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: system which gives a voice to the majority. And so

629
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: then you just have everybody campaigning number one on false

630
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: promises of like we're going to stick it to the Dems.

631
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, yeah, well then they're going to stick

632
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: it to you whenever they get into office. And then

633
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: it leads to no like absolutely no cross partisan effort whatsoever.

634
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: It's all just about you drive up the base, you

635
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: win in your Gerrymander district, and your greatest fear is

636
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: getting primary for not sticking it to the Democrats. If

637
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: you're a Republican, not sticking it to the Republicans, if

638
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: you're a demo, not even from huge problem a policy level.

639
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like in terms of like, yes, I agree

640
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: with Trump, the election was stolen. Who can or signal

641
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: their in group loyalty? That's all it comes down to.

642
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how you end up with closing ads

643
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: in the Virginia governor's race that don't say a damn

644
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: word about what either candidate is actually going to deliver

645
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: for people. Because and the media has fueled this and

646
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: played into it for ratings. How many segments do we

647
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: see on Fox News about evil Democrats and how they

648
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: are a threat to your way of life and that

649
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: this is you know, the greatest threat facing you with

650
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: someone who happens to have different political ideology than you.

651
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: And how many segments you see on CNN and MSNBC

652
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: that's like, you know, calling out this racist Karen or

653
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: whoever who won't wear a mask or is mean to

654
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: so and so or Look, there are a lot of

655
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: ass out there, there's no doubt about it. That's a

656
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: bipartisan situation there. But the news media has decided this

657
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: is the tiibe thesis that I think is so important

658
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: in one hundred percent correct that in order to maintain

659
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: their own ratings, the best thing they could do now

660
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: that the Cold War is over, now that the war

661
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: on terror sort of sentiment, the fear around that the

662
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: juice in that has kind of run dry, that the

663
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: best thing that they can maintain their ratings is by

664
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: turning each other, turning ourselves on each other. And there

665
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: were are endless threats when it's your neighbor, when it's

666
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: the people in the town over, when it's you know,

667
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: somebody you've never met, but they're convincing you should be

668
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: afraid of. And that's how you end up with the

669
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: situation where voters are going to the polls not so

670
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: much with what these politicians might deliver for them and

671
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: how they can make their lives better, but just to

672
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 1: serve as a check on the bad guys who are

673
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: going to destroy the country. Yeah, that's right. And speaking

674
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: of the media and the stuff that they don't cover, you,

675
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: what did there. This is a great segment that we're

676
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: about to do, so it's fascinating. Now. The Epstein connections

677
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: to the financial world have long been known here in

678
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: the United States. The latest time that we saw in

679
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: actual financial regulator move on. Somebody with regards to their

680
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: ties to Epstein was with Deutsche Bank a couple of

681
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: years ago in the Department of Financial Services in the

682
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: state of New York, who revealed all sorts of different

683
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: ways at Deutsche Bank was using Epstein to, you know,

684
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 1: solicit clients. How they didn't report him to the FBI,

685
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: even though his handlers would be like, Hey, how much

686
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: cash can we take out without alerting the FEDS? Just

687
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: so you guys know, by asking that question, they're supposed

688
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: to alert the FEDS. And he would take out hundreds

689
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars in cash for quote, tipping purposes.

690
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: They found wire transfers, yeah, very relatable. Found wire transfers

691
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: which are almost assuredly used for human trafficking purposes in

692
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe, pay off to various types of people, all

693
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: sorts of illegal activity which the bank knew of which

694
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: they had all at the very highest levels were aware of.

695
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: And they didn't cut off their business with Epstein because

696
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: quote he was or because of the knowledge that he

697
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: was helping them solicit other high network individuals. Okay, so

698
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: this was all admitted to and they were fined by

699
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: the New York State. Well, different financial regulators across the

700
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: pond in the United Kingdom have been doing a very

701
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: interesting investigation and their findings have led to a bombshell

702
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: in the financial community. Let's put this up there on

703
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: the screen. So Barclay's CEO. Barclay is one of the

704
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: largest banks in the world. Chief executive Jess Stalely is

705
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: now leaving the bank after financial regulators had a confidential

706
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: review of the bank's relationship with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Now, unfortunately,

707
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: because of British law and all sorts of stuff, we

708
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: don't really know exactly it was reported in the findings.

709
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: It's unpublished as of now. And by the way, any Brits,

710
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: if you're listening and you're a journalist, it would be

711
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: great if you get your hands on that report where

712
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: all of us over here. Now, what's interesting is that

713
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: it was so bad that even though mister Staley, Jess Staley,

714
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: disputed the findings of the report, the bank itself was

715
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: like you got to go man in terms of what

716
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: they found here. So clearly there was something which is

717
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: very important and really what it is is that Staley

718
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: has long said that their relationship with Epstein and the bank,

719
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: which was actually pre existing prior to him becoming CEO

720
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: already a red flag, was one in which that he

721
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: would help them find clients. So again, this is the

722
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: same thing. He said that his relationship with Epstein quote

723
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: tapered off significantly back in twenty thirteen, that he had

724
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: not even seen him since he had become the CEO

725
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. He's like, I regret it. Of course

726
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: I regret it. But really what they point to is

727
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: that what he did want while he was working in

728
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: the finance industry is he leveraged his relationship with Epstein

729
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: in order to get more clients for the bank. So

730
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: this is the second Titan of Wall Street in order

731
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: to be brought down by this, and look how many

732
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: more have to fall. Leon Black, who is one of

733
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: the largest private equity guys on all of Wall Street's

734
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: worth like nine billion dollars, had to step down from

735
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: Apollo Management Group because of his relationship with Epstein and

736
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: because it came out from The New York Times that

737
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: he had paid Epstein up to quote one hundred and

738
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in exchange for tax advice. Once again,

739
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: when you're worth nine billion, you can literally go to

740
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: anyone at the highest levels of the tax industry to

741
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 1: help you dodge your taxes. Why does this guy who

742
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: knows nothing about taxes need one hundred and fifty million

743
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: bucks in order to advise you. It's the same story,

744
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: And in this particular case, it seems to be that

745
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: all of the people who were at the very top

746
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: and who were working specifically in the industry of managing

747
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: the money of billionaires, of managing deal flow, of managing

748
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 1: people's money and high net worth assets individuals, is that

749
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: they knew that Epstein was a conduit to those people,

750
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: Which is what do we talk about here on the

751
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: show all the time. Follow the money. You think these

752
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: people are fools. You think that they're going to have

753
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: a relationship with somebody if they're not making them hundreds

754
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars in fees, and they're not going

755
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: to overlook obvious financial irregularities and bad conduct beyond personal

756
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: conduct which was all public record and all of that

757
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: because they couldn't make and become ludicrously wealthy. This is

758
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: just another clue in exactly where things what the relationship

759
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: was to the Epstein and these people at the banks,

760
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: and once again, Crystal, we have no idea what's inside

761
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: this report, but I would really love to know, bad

762
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: enough to make the CEO of one of the biggest

763
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: banks in the world resign. Resign. It's not an accident

764
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: that Epstein, like all of these famous or wealthy people elites,

765
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 1: that so many of them haven't Epstein connection, because this

766
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: was his strategy to continue his crimes to be protected

767
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: by I'm actually going to talk about Katie Kirk's memoir

768
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: she had an Epstein Dinner. Why. Because he was cultivating

769
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: media personalities so that he would get favorable coverage, you know,

770
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: having all these ties to the financial industry, having all

771
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: these ties with people like Bill Gates. I mean you

772
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: just you go down the list and there's like an

773
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: Epstein picture for every rich, famous, wealthy individual. And it's

774
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: because this was his strategy to try to cocoon himself

775
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,879
Speaker 1: in this sphere of elite protection, and it worked for

776
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: a really long time with regards to this particular individual.

777
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: If you read between the lines in this report from Reuters,

778
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: what they seem to suggest is that Staley had told

779
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: people that his relationship with Epstein had tapered off significantly

780
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: after he left JP Morgan in twenty thirteen, and that

781
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: he hadn't even seen Epstein since taking over as CEO

782
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: of Barclays in twenty fifteen. It would appear that that

783
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: was a lie, and that may very well be why

784
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: this report is so damning to him, because he seemingly

785
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: covered up. According to some other reporting, additional meanings ties

786
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: interactions with Epstein after the point at which he said

787
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with him, and that timing

788
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: matters because you know, I mean, what year was it

789
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: that he actually was convicted for sex crimes and had

790
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: the plea deal down in four two and five six, Right,

791
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: So you would think that after that every we'd be like,

792
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: all right, we see what's going on here, and we

793
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: don't want to have anything to do with you. But

794
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: the further you can push your relationship into the past,

795
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: the more that you feel like maybe people will excuse

796
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: it because you didn't realize how bad things were. But

797
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: The New York Times reported in twenty nineteen that Epstein

798
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: had referred dozens of wealthy clients to Staley, twenty nineteen

799
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: being a long time after twenty thirteen, when he had.

800
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 1: He said the relationship had quote tapered off. They also

801
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: reported Staley visited Epstein in prison when he was serving

802
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: a sentence that was between two thousand and eight and

803
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine for soliciting prostitution from a minor.

804
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: So he also can't say like, I had no idea

805
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: anything was wrong with this guy. He literally visited him

806
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: in prison, and Bloomberg reported he visited Epstein's private island

807
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, also after the time that he said

808
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: his relationship had quote tapered off. Amazing, So it looks

809
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 1: like this guy got caught in a whole bushel of

810
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: lies about the nature of his relationship. And I mean

811
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: we see this with Bill Gates as well, Who's like, oh,

812
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: I had like a handful of different women. Yeah, barely

813
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: knew that guy. Where meanwhile, it's like, now, this was

814
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: his boy, he was hanging out with him, he was

815
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: going to him for marriage advice, going to marriage advice,

816
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: flying across the world to try and get a Nobel

817
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: Peace Prize, brokering deals, I mean endless in terms of

818
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: their connections there. It's the same thing here, which is

819
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: you know those connections that you are pointing to on

820
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: the island visiting somebody in prison. These people had full

821
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: knowledge of what was up. They leveraged it in order

822
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: to take a lot of money from other high net

823
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: worth individuals. And the ultimate question is what did he

824
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: have on them and the other and vice versa, that

825
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: this was all just some big understanding where everybody's making

826
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: a whole lot of money. Still no answer to that questions.

827
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: I'd love for By the way, while the Brits are

828
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: paying attention, one of your princes also needs to to

829
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: get got and get his get his ass over here

830
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: to the United States in order to stand civil trial

831
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: in the state of New York. But as we'll continue

832
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: to follow that story, this one as well, a bombshell

833
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: that really reveals how much of the top levels of

834
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: Wall Street worked until very recently. Speaking of the top

835
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: levels of Wall Street escaping all accountability, John Stewart had

836
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 1: an interview with CEO of JP Mortgan Chase Jamie Diamond,

837
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: and I got to tell you, I've been watching Stewart's

838
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: new show, The Problem with John Stewart. It's phenomenal. It's

839
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: so good. I'd particularly recommend to you the episode he

840
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: did on the economy, pulled together all the resource you

841
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: remember on the Daily Show, they'd pulled together all these

842
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: clip montages from news done phenomenally. But then also it's

843
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: a little harder edged than the Daily Show, Like he's

844
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: clearly sharpened, become more biting. It's not on cable so

845
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: he can curse. It's a little more like it's his

846
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: ideology has clearly sharpened a little bit, whereas he used

847
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: to be a little more just like, let's all get along.

848
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: Now there's a more direct and biting critique. One of

849
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: the hallmarks of his show, which it has a companion podcast,

850
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: which is where the Jamie Diamond Interview lives, is all

851
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: of these very powerful people Dennis McDonough, Janet Yellen have

852
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: been sitting down with him, thinking like he's a comedian

853
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: is downstairs, he's liberal, he's on our side, and then

854
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: he just goes after that shreads them in a way

855
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: that like a true journalist actually should Why because he

856
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: doesn't care if he gets access to these people. Again,

857
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 1: he's already multiply. Yeah, he's rich, he's famous, he's got

858
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: everything he wants. So it really feels like this show

859
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: is about his passion to explain his passion to deliver

860
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: a message, his passion as always which he's always been

861
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: so good at at sort of exposing the hypocrisies of

862
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: elites and the media in particular. So in this interview

863
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: with Jamie Diamond, he has a deep debate with him

864
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: about the state of the economy and whether or not

865
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: it's rigged on behalf of the investor class people like

866
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond. And I'm going to play you a couple

867
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: of clips. The first one, let me just set it

868
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: up for you a little bit back when we were

869
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: on Rising, where we talked about the Business round Table,

870
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: of course, and how they had this bullshit pledge. Oh,

871
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: we're going to be socially respond don't worry. You don't

872
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: have to regulate us, you don't have to tax this.

873
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: We're going to do it all on our own, just

874
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: because we're amazing people. So Diamond tries to spin John

875
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: Stewart on like, oh, a't the Business round Table. You

876
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe it. We're not out for just shareholder value

877
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: and profits. We're really in it for the good of

878
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: the people. Let's take a listen to how that exchange went.

879
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: So you may be surprised, but you know, the Business Roundtable,

880
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: which you know changed. It's what it looks at is

881
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: that we have to take care of customers, employees, communities

882
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 1: in addition to shareholders, actually wants minim wages to go up.

883
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: We want to fix it inner city schools. We want

884
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: to have proper immigration systems. We actually have a lot

885
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: of policies that would improve the safety net around healthcare,

886
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: you know, and the system needs a lot of work

887
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: to make it work for everybody. But then, Jamie, so

888
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: here's where I think we get into the difficulty, which

889
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: is that the Business Roundtable signs onto all kinds of

890
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: socially responsible I don't know, PRESEP whatever you want to

891
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: call them. When given the chance to advocate for policies

892
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: that would make that possible, almost always fight against them,

893
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: even for you guys. In twenty seventeen, everybody lobbied for

894
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: that corporate tax cut. Well, the social policies that you're

895
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: talking about that the Business Roundtable would supposedly support cost money,

896
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: and any kind of push to raise a corporate tax

897
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: rate is fought tooth and nail by yourself, JP Morgan,

898
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: the Business Roundtable, the biggest obstacle is actually corporations like yours,

899
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: the Business Roundtable corporations, those seem like the biggest obstacle

900
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: for us to actually implement the kind of changes that

901
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: you yourself are supporting. So you see Stewart called him

902
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 1: out directly. Amazing says, you claim that you support social

903
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: spending and all these good things, you really care about

904
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: the common person. But when it comes down to it,

905
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: the money you're using to lobby Congress is all about

906
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: keeping your tax rates low. So where is this similar

907
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: priority around these social spending goals that you claim to

908
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: How he calls him out straight to his face. I

909
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: remember doing. Yeah, that was one of the first big

910
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: monologues I ever did back over at Rising on the

911
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: Business Roundtable, and they're like, we're going to be socially

912
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: responsible and you know, shareholder profits no longer, you know,

913
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: are what we're going to be our guiding you know,

914
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: our guiding load star whatever. We're going to focus on workers. Well,

915
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: spent a couple of years. How did it all work out?

916
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that he called out that specifically, because

917
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: essentially what Jamie Diamond and Bezos and everybody else who's

918
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: on the Business Roundtable do is they use that as

919
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: a crutch in order to point to specific Whenever they

920
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: confronted over these things, they go, hey, look our lobbying organization,

921
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: we've already changed the mission. But in practice it always

922
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: comes down to lower corporate tax rate. Right now, what

923
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: are they robbing against? Hardcore? A minimum corporate tax of

924
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: fifteen percent. That's too far for the Business Roundtable because

925
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: these banks and Amazon and more, and Jamie Dimond himself,

926
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: he's a billionaire many times over, these guys are all

927
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: in it for one reason for profit, and hey, just

928
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: be honest about it. Yeah, but don't try and tell

929
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 1: us about how oh you're for social responsibility and more

930
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: and oh, you know two thousand and eight that was

931
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: so unfortunate, and that's why we've changed. I want people

932
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: to have health care. I want people to do this

933
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: in terms of where they put their money, follow where

934
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: they push it. It is all towards making sure that

935
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: they get to keep more. That is it, period. And

936
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, it is amazing because I don't know why

937
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: these people seem to be sitting with John Stewart like

938
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't quite get it, Like Dennis

939
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: McDonough and Janet Yellen and Jamie Diamond, like, do you

940
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: really think this is going to go well for you?

941
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of them have the hubrist

942
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: to think that they can spin somebody that because John

943
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, is very you know, he's obviously very progressive

944
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: I think personally and pretty much on a left of

945
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: center perspective. But I take anything away from his public

946
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: commentaries post Trump years, he seems to have a very

947
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: similar diagnosis as us as to what really happened, and

948
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: he understands how full of it both sides in the

949
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: media are and really how much class consciousness has been

950
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: ignored by people in the elite circles for a long time.

951
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: I really wish he'd been around during the Trump years

952
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: because he seems to be one of the few that

953
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: didn't have his brain broken by Donald Trump. He also

954
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: obviously has left of center progressive views, but he is

955
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: totally willing and you know, ready and able to call

956
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: out a Democratic Party and hold too account people like

957
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: Janney Ellen and Dennis McDonald or in the Biden administration.

958
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond also is the Democratic donor Democratic big Democratic donor,

959
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: so he's not afraid of also pointing fingers at the

960
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and I think that's something that you and

961
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: I both find really important, because, look, your ideology is

962
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: your ideology. That's fine, we can have a debate about that.

963
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: But if you're just like cheerleading for one team or

964
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: the other, then you're fundamentally, first of all, you're a propagandist,

965
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: and also you're not interesting. So there's another moment here

966
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: that I wanted to play for you, which is also

967
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: quite incredible and I think exposes just how wildly out

968
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: of step Jamie Diamond, and by extension, the entire elite

969
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: class is from the actual lives of regular Americans. And

970
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: this is where they get into a debate about you know,

971
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: don't you think John Stuart is saying that things have

972
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: been rigged in favor of these gigantic employers and away

973
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: from labor, and unions have been crushed and workers have

974
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: so little power, and Diamond actually argues with him that

975
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: places like Walmart and Wendy's are amazing for workers, and

976
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: they're the best employers and we should be super grateful

977
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: for them. Take a listen, why is it that, you know,

978
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: labor and workers haven't seen their wages grow. It's because

979
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: corporations left to their own devices will as they should

980
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: only be looking out for their profit. That's just and

981
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: I totally disagree. I think that's how they when you ironically,

982
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: short term profiteering and stuff like that is the worst

983
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 1: thing a company can do. And maybe, and again with

984
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: some facts that some of these quote biggest companies in

985
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: America are the highest pain companies in America, and they

986
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: all give medical care, they all treat their people really well.

987
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: There are I think thirty million companies in America, you know,

988
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: And why I apployed small business that which you know

989
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: has been Should they share in the profits? Like when

990
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: Walmart makes billions of dollars? Should their workers share? And

991
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: that should they also get profit sharing? Should they also

992
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: benefit when the company benefits, especially since the company benefits

993
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: from American infrastructure and from the taxpayer subsidizing their workforce

994
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: with social safety programs? So should that be the case. Yeah,

995
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about any one particular company,

996
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: but I'm using them as an example. A lot of

997
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: companies do do that. They have profit sharing plans, and

998
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: they've got training plans, and they have an opportunity for

999
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: people generally at the white collar level, you know, unless

1000
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: they have a really strong union. Again, it's a that's

1001
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: a huge that's just hugely not true that. You know,

1002
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: people make fun of these starter jobs, you know, whether

1003
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: I mean my whole life I've built, make fun of

1004
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: burger flippers and stuff like that. Jobs bring dignity. Jobs

1005
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: are you know is that first run in the ladder.

1006
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: My guess is that half that's not making fun of jobs.

1007
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: That's the people that run McDonald's started as a burger flipper.

1008
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: It was McDonald's who trained them, who gave an opportunity,

1009
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: And I think it's a mistake to just diminish the

1010
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,240
Speaker 1: role that these companies played. Just like the US military

1011
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: does the best job in the world in my opinion,

1012
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: of taking kids out of inner cities and giving a

1013
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: haircuts and train i'd be TeamWorks. So the bigger companies

1014
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: provide a tremendous amount of that quite deliberately. I'd be

1015
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: hard pressed to say that Walmart, Burg King and those

1016
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: corporations don't exploit their workers. That is a classic of

1017
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: the genre, Crystal, That's a classic of the genre. These

1018
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: big guys, you know, it's actually really good for It's

1019
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: like whenever people talk about how Amazon right now is

1020
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: paying like a twenty something dollars minimum wage. I think

1021
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: that's great, you know, in order for these people to

1022
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: get that, but they only get a ten minute break.

1023
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: You can get fired by an app. They have a

1024
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 1: huge amount of control over your life, don't you dare

1025
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: try and form a union, make sure that whenever you're

1026
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: at the workplace, you're a good little soldier and you

1027
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: do exactly what you're told. And oh, if all of

1028
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 1: you guys come together and say that actually we want

1029
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: a fifteen minute break, every single one of you is fired,

1030
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: and oh, we're the only employer in town, so good

1031
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,439
Speaker 1: luck trying to go anywhere else. You know, you used

1032
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: a word a moment ago, which is hubris, and that

1033
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: is really what comes off in this exchange. Like Jamie

1034
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: Diamond has clearly never had an honest conversation with a

1035
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: Walmart worker or any other service industry worker about what

1036
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: their life is like, how hard it is to survive,

1037
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: the type of hours that they're working, the inhuman way

1038
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: that they are treated when they are on the job.

1039
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,919
Speaker 1: Because he can just arrogantly wave of hair. Of course

1040
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: these places are amazing for the workers, and Stuart just

1041
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: being the stating the obvious I'd be pretty hard pressed

1042
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: to say that these types of companies don't exploit their workers.

1043
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: And that theme of arrogance with Jamie Diamond comes through

1044
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: throughout this entire podcast. He repeatedly tells Stuart, basically, you

1045
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. This is way more complicated.

1046
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: It's above your understanding here, It's way more complicated than

1047
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: you could possibly understand. So with implication being that's that's

1048
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: why you have to leave it to people like me

1049
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: and other members of the ruling class to set the

1050
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: policy for the rest of you. Peons who are too

1051
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: stupid ultimately understand. Number One, that's absurd. And these same people,

1052
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: the Jamie Diamonds of the world, how many times have

1053
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: they gotten things wrong to the extent that they nearly

1054
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: destroyed the entire world relatively recently. Number two, Look, you

1055
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: listen to the interview, you listen to John Stewart's work,

1056
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: you follow his work over the years. This is an

1057
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,919
Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent individual who has done his homework and knows

1058
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: what he's talking about and has actually, i think in

1059
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: the past ten years, talked to some regular people who

1060
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: could give him a few insights into what life is

1061
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: actually like for them, unlike Jamie Diamond, who seems to

1062
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: have none of that connectivity. So listen. I pulled two

1063
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: of the highlights that I thought were most revealing, but

1064
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, the whole hour interview on

1065
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: the podcast is extraordinarily worth your time. There were many

1066
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: moments that I was like, Oh, that's that's perfect, like that,

1067
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: that's incredible. It's so satisfying to actually listen to this

1068
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: guy be told that he's full of shit to his faith. Yeah, well,

1069
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: you know, props to John. Keep it up, man, seriously,

1070
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: because that is it's so important here, and it's also

1071
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: very telling to me. He was a darling for elite

1072
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: media in the bush ears because he was calling out Fox,

1073
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: But nowadays he doesn't get nearly the amount of proma

1074
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: nearly the amount of love, because now he's calling out everybody.

1075
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm here for it. I'm here for

1076
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: the new John. We're here for it. We support to John.

1077
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: That's right, all right, Zigery, what are you looking at? Well?

1078
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: There is an important concept that I touched on in

1079
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: yesterday's show that bears teasing out more today on breaking Points.

1080
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: That is the dictatorship of the small minority. The concept

1081
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: has been around for a long time, but it was

1082
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: articulated very well by Nassim Teleb. It's pretty simple to understand,

1083
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: but basically, if a small group of people really passionately

1084
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: believe or want something, while the rest may kind of

1085
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: disagree or at most apathetic, then the small group is

1086
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: actually going to win out over the larger. That is

1087
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: why there are vegetarian options at fast food restaurants, or

1088
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: as till I've famously pointed out, nearly all drinks in

1089
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: the US are kosher, despite only three tenths of the

1090
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: US population abiding by kosher as of late, I've been

1091
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: especially thinking about this with respect to politics and vaccines. Now,

1092
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: most of the US population is vaccinated at this point.

1093
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: Latest numbers indicate it's like two hundred and twenty million

1094
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: out of three hundred and thirty million people in this

1095
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: country have had at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine,

1096
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: so roughly around two thirds now. Getting vaccinated is definitely

1097
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: the majoritarian position, and it's that thinking that led the

1098
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: White House and the Biden administration to think that a

1099
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: vaccine mandate would be very popular. Hence the New Ocean Rule,

1100
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: which is we have to go into effect soon that

1101
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: mandates of employers with over one hundred employees must require

1102
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: employees to either get vaccinated or provide testing for those

1103
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: who don't want to get the vaccine. But here's the

1104
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: problem for the White House. While most people have gotten

1105
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: the vaccine, the people who haven't really, really really don't

1106
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,919
Speaker 1: want to get it, and they care so much they're

1107
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: going to crawl over broken glass to vote, while those

1108
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: who have not really don't care that much either way

1109
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: about those who haven't. Now, this particularly struck me yesterday

1110
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: when it was discussing the Virginia governor's race. Recent polling

1111
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: there showed that those who have had one dose of

1112
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: the vaccine support mccaulliffe by fourteen points, but those who

1113
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: haven't back Youngin by seventy seven points. In other words,

1114
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: those who have not gotten vaccinated care a lot more

1115
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: about that and are willing to act end mass to

1116
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: try and block efforts to get them to do so,

1117
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 1: while those who have are mostly ambivalent. The same is

1118
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: beginning to manifest on a national level. While the original

1119
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: vaccine mandate had seventy percent support, it has gone into

1120
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: practice and they have become more real things have actually

1121
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: raged dramatically. Even NBC's latest poll finds that forty seven

1122
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: percent support a vaccine mandate, fifty percent of pose. Furthermore,

1123
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: among those who strongly support or strongly disapprove, only thirty

1124
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: four percent of respondents strongly support one, while forty one

1125
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: percent strongly oppose. So, in other words, those who oppose

1126
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: are directionally with the larger and more vocal group. So

1127
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 1: if you look at it in practice, the breakdown shows

1128
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about. When people were asked if

1129
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: they would support a congressional candidate who vacs a nationwide mandate,

1130
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: thirty two percent said they would be more likely to

1131
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: support them, while forty percent said they would be more

1132
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: likely to oppose them. And while mass walkouts and quitting

1133
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: have not manifested in the same way that people predicted,

1134
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: there has still been some disruption. Police officers some firefighters

1135
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: across the nation have lost their jobs and limited numbers

1136
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: for not getting vaccinated. Their cases have generated a lot

1137
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: of attention. Now, overall, I think it manifests this way,

1138
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: whether there is a mass quitting or not. The debate

1139
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: and the firings and the high profile attention and more

1140
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: is just a chaotic environment, and Biden was elected for

1141
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: one reason, specifically to stop the chaos. That's it. Nobody

1142
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: really liked the guy. Most people voted for him because

1143
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: he wasn't Trump. All he really had to do was

1144
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: give people two thousand dollars checks in the vaccine and instead,

1145
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: later on buckle to Fauci and he brought back the masks.

1146
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: He embraced COVID zero as a de facto policy of

1147
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: the government, and in doing so, in my opinion, he

1148
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: has spelled his own demise. Here's the truth. Coronavirus infections

1149
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: are winding down. All of society is trending negative in

1150
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: the worst direction in many respects. Most people are more

1151
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: pessimistic than ever today about the US economy. Seventy one

1152
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: percent of Americans in the latest NBC poll said the

1153
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: country was on the wrong track. Now Biden has zero enthusiasm,

1154
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: and in general, there is a sense of chaos that

1155
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: will just simply not end. In other words, lack of

1156
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: normal is dragging this country down. And the more and

1157
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: more that pandemic theater intrudes in our lives, and the

1158
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 1: more that we see chaos either way. As a result

1159
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: of these decisions, Biden is screwed and worse. America is

1160
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: way or worse off politically. The best thing people can

1161
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: do is move on. Don't just believe me, Look at

1162
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: the voters themselves. The Virginia's governor's race is more about

1163
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: critical race theory and Trump than it is about COVID.

1164
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: Or take New Jersey, which has less culture war. Current

1165
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: polls show that the economy, taxes, and schools rank as

1166
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: the top priorities for voters there. Politico even quotes top

1167
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: Democratic aids, who arguably benefited from COVID more than anyone, saying, quote,

1168
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: everybody's just ready to move on, and the quote whether

1169
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: the science merits it or not, the public is ready

1170
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: to move on. But don't just believe their words. Believe

1171
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: the dollars In the final weeks of spending in October

1172
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one for the VA and New Jersey governor's races,

1173
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: guess what percent was COVID related? Six percent. Twenty nineteen

1174
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: is back with the vengeance, except this time it's twenty

1175
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: nineteen plus all the problems that COVID unleashed. Remember how

1176
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: poorly Joe Biden was doing nationally before COVID, and think

1177
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: about what a return to normal really looks like for him,

1178
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: the coronavirus ruled out our national politics for nearly eighteen months,

1179
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: and today I think it's beginning to be over and

1180
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: the backfire is just beginning. And it's really amazing, Crystal.

1181
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: The more that you look at the polling data and

1182
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: you see how very quickly we were talking about this earlier,

1183
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: there's a reversion kind of back to a Crystal, what

1184
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: are you taking a look at? So, guys, when I

1185
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: was in high school, every morning before school, I would

1186
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: watch Matt and Katie on the Today Show. Now, I

1187
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a political household, and so this

1188
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: was actually really kind of my first little spark of

1189
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: a budding interest in news and politics. When I was

1190
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: in college, on spring break in New York City with girlfriends,

1191
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: we actually woke up at four am to grab a

1192
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: spot at thirty Rock to hope for our ten seconds

1193
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: of fame on the Today Show. We made a sign

1194
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: that said following in Katie's footsteps, skipping class at UVA today,

1195
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: referencing the school as she and I both attended, and

1196
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: though Katie had by then moved on. When I was

1197
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: at MSNBC, I got a special thrill out of the

1198
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: few times that I was invited to talk politics on

1199
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 1: the Today Show, I just couldn't believe that I was

1200
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: actually in that room, on that set, sitting next to

1201
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: Matt Lauer. It's cringe, I know. So when Kirk's new

1202
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: memoir came out, I was actually really curious what was

1203
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: really going on at the iconic morning show behind the

1204
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 1: scenes while I was watching it with Awe as a

1205
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: young woman. And as it turns out, quite a lot

1206
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: was going on in going there, Katie Kirk accidentally tells

1207
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: on herself and on the bankrupt news media that has

1208
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: failed our country at so many critical junctures. Now, the

1209
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: first thing to know is that I don't think Katie

1210
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: Kirk is like an exceptionally bad or evil person. She's

1211
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: just an ambitious person who drew few lines or boundaries

1212
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: when it came to her own career success. In fact,

1213
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: she might be on average more ethical in principle than

1214
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: most in the industry, having done some genuinely good things,

1215
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: things like raised millions for cancer research after her husband

1216
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: died of cancer at a young age, and yet buffeted

1217
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: by the realities of corporate media and access journalism, she

1218
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: perpetuated the very worst of our media healthcate for example,

1219
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: the book is full of anecdotes about the levels that

1220
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: Katie and her producers would stoop to in order to

1221
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: win the booking wars. You're willing to lie, cheat, and

1222
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: steel to make sure that the big get ended up

1223
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: on their air first. Anything virtually was justified in the

1224
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: quest to exploit grief and tragedy for ratings. Now, we've

1225
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: already covered the bombshell revelation that Kurk edited an RBG

1226
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: interview leaving out explosive comments that the revered Supreme Court

1227
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: justice made about Colin Kaepernick. Katie wonders in the book

1228
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: whether she would have protected Clarence Thomas or Samuel Alito

1229
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 1: from similarly embarrassing comments. I think we all know the

1230
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: answer to that one. And to complete her full round

1231
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,439
Speaker 1: trip on the corrupt corporate media tour, Katie even spent

1232
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: an evening at a Jeffrey Epstein house party where he hoped,

1233
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: no doubt, to win over a few friendly media allies.

1234
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: But there's a story that's woven throughout this book that

1235
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: I think really gets to the root of how the

1236
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: media operates and why anchors and journalists prefer to punch

1237
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: down rather than to ever hold the power to account.

1238
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: So here's the story. Right after George W. Bush was

1239
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 1: elected for the first time, Kirk had an interview with

1240
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: First Lady Laura Bush, and Katie actually did a good

1241
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 1: job in the interview. It was mostly about fluffy First

1242
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: Lady's stuff, but she also made some real news. She

1243
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: got the incoming First Lady to admit that she did

1244
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 1: not support overturning Roe versus Wade. This, of course, was

1245
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: a break from her husband's position and highly significant after

1246
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 1: he had just been elected on the strength of evangelical

1247
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: voters with an unapologetically culturally conservative platform. That segment it

1248
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: became a big deal. It led the nightly news, and

1249
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: it remained relevant for years to come. People still talk

1250
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,919
Speaker 1: about it. So was Kirk rewarded for doing an effective

1251
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: job as a journalist. Nope, quite the opposite. The Bush

1252
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,680
Speaker 1: White House was pissed and NBC execs they weren't real

1253
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: happy either. Katie writes in her book quote, Suddenly I

1254
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: was persona on grat in the White House. After that,

1255
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: whenever there was a big interview, they swung the door

1256
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: wide open for Matt and they closed it on me.

1257
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: It bothered me that NBC would let them call the

1258
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: shots that way, but I knew that if today made

1259
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: a stink, we could be shut out of the rotation.

1260
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,719
Speaker 1: There was pressure inside the network to NBC CEO Bob

1261
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 1: Wright once sent an email telling me I'd been too

1262
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: tough on Condy Rice and that they'd gotten a lot

1263
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: of complaints. Now, look, these threats were not implicit either.

1264
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: After Katie asked Colin Powell some tough questions about our

1265
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: unfilling loyalty to Saudi Arabia, the White House officially put

1266
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: NBC on notice, calling in to say, quote, if she

1267
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: continues along these lines, we will have to cut off

1268
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,799
Speaker 1: access for the remainder of her time at today, Katie

1269
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: was punished by the Bush White House and the NBC brass.

1270
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: They went right along with it. Now, just think about

1271
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: the incentives here For journalists. Katie Kirk is as big

1272
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: as they get. Her career, it could survive being shut

1273
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: out of the White House. But for some up and

1274
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: comer losing access would be career death. How many would

1275
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: take that risk and ask that challenging question about Saudi Arabia. Now,

1276
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: years later, once she'd left Today, and after some sucking

1277
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 1: up to Bushcom's director at the time, Nicole Wallace Kuric,

1278
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: finally got an interview with President Bush himself, now in

1279
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: her role as anchor of CBS Evening News. Here's how

1280
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: she thought about that interview quote, Well, it felt good

1281
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: to be back in the business of questioning the President

1282
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: of the United States. I was keenly aware that I

1283
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: was on thin ice. If I got too tough, I

1284
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 1: ran the risk of being blackbald again. If I soft

1285
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: pedaled it, I didn't deserve to be the anger of

1286
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 1: the Evening News. She recounts in that part how she

1287
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: thought of pointing out to Bush how his invasion had

1288
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: galvanized terrorists, but she decided to keep that criticism to herself.

1289
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 1: After all, she couldn't risk losing access once again. Now,

1290
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: just multiply that choice by a thousand times or by

1291
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: a million times, and you see how we end up

1292
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: with the media rot that We've ultimately got questions that

1293
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: are not asked, stories that are not pursued, obvious follow

1294
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: ups which are left unsaid, just ambitious career people playing

1295
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: the game because it's in their interest. The public's interest

1296
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 1: not so much, and Zager. You know, it's interesting because

1297
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: no one even picked up on this no nugget as

1298
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 1: they're playing the same idea. Joining us now is a

1299
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: great journalist. NPR's Washington investigative correspondent Tim Mock himself is

1300
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 1: the author of a new book of Misfire, Inside the

1301
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: Downfall of the NRA. Tim, it's great to see you.

1302
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us man, of course, anytime. Thanks for

1303
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: having me, absolutely so, Tim. I think what really important

1304
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: for us for this book was, look, you know, no

1305
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: statements or whatever on guns, but there are a lot

1306
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 1: of well meaning people across this country who joined the NRA.

1307
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: It was for a long time one of the largest

1308
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: lobbying organizations in Washington, and then it collapsed almost within

1309
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: a couple of years, but it still has quite a

1310
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,680
Speaker 1: bit of cachet in our culture. So number one, why

1311
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: did you decide to write this book? And what are

1312
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,719
Speaker 1: some of the things that you found? Well, look, why

1313
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: the reason I was so interested in writing a book

1314
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: about the National Rifle Association is that it's kind of

1315
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,799
Speaker 1: a black box. You know, we literally know much about

1316
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: what's happening inside the organization other than what the organization

1317
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: wants others to know about it, We don't know much

1318
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: about the personalities and the people inside. And that's what

1319
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: the book Misfire really does. It gets behind the scenes

1320
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: and explains to you who these characters are, from Wayne Lapierre,

1321
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: this eccentric and anxiety ridden CEO, to his wife Susan Lapierre,

1322
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: to many other executives and folks who have ultimately been

1323
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: accused of tens of millions of dollars of misconduct and

1324
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: the spending that have led the NRA into crisis, Tim,

1325
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: could you expound on that a little bit? And this

1326
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 1: is a little bit personal for me because my dad

1327
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: is very passionate about gun rights. He's very responsible gun owner.

1328
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 1: When I talk to him about you know, basic gun

1329
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 1: safety thing, closing loopholes and things like background checks, he's

1330
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: actually very supportive. But he's also very influenced by whoever

1331
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 1: the NRA tells him is the best candidate for him

1332
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: to vote for. He's a law long time NRA member,

1333
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: and so I've been talking to him in recent years

1334
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: about some of your reporting and some other reporting about

1335
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: the way that the NRA has basically morphed into just

1336
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 1: a scam, ripping off their members. What should people like

1337
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: my dad and others like him, who really you know,

1338
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: they are passionate about the Second Amendment. They grew up really,

1339
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: you know, thinking that the right to own a weapon

1340
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 1: responsibly is something that's important to them, and have been

1341
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: longtime members. What should they know about how their dollars

1342
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 1: are actually being used. Well, one of the reasons I

1343
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: was able to write a book like this, do over

1344
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty interviews with folks inside the NA

1345
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 1: universe and get thousands of pages of secret depositions and

1346
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: internal documents and emails from inside the NRA is a

1347
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,560
Speaker 1: lot of folks inside the NA universe feel very betrayed

1348
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: by how the NRA executives have acted. They feel for

1349
01:13:57,400 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 1: folks like your dad and other people who might be

1350
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 1: contributing five, ten, fifteen dollars a month to the National

1351
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: Rifle Assization and seeing that money in the millions of

1352
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: dollars going towards private jet travel, exotic vacation for Wayne

1353
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 1: Lapierre and his family, trips to Europe and the Bahamas,

1354
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: really expensive dinner, six figures in suits for Wayne on

1355
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: rodeo drive. That's one of the big reasons why dozens

1356
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 1: of NRA insiders were willing to talk to an inn

1357
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 1: Avescade report. Is he really is Luve here really the

1358
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 1: villain here? Like, is he the one who you know,

1359
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: had these lavish tastes and was sort of appropriating, misusing

1360
01:14:43,720 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: the money that was coming in or was there a

1361
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: rot within the organization before he's named its president. Well,

1362
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,759
Speaker 1: you know, as the head of the organization, he's ultimately

1363
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: responsible for what happens in the organization. But he's by

1364
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: no means the only bad player in the saga. I mean,

1365
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: we've spoken a little bit about his wife, Susan Lapierre,

1366
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 1: but there are many other executives who have received millions

1367
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 1: of dollars worth of self dealing contracts and gone a

1368
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 1: lot of money, not even the show up or do

1369
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,839
Speaker 1: any work at all, but by virtue of being connected

1370
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: to Wayne Lapierre. So what else do you where do

1371
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: you find to be the genesis of the corruption within

1372
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 1: the NRA? Tim was it? You know, at what point

1373
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 1: did it happen? Did it just happen under Lapierre's rule

1374
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: has been a long time kind of within the organization.

1375
01:15:34,479 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: Where did you find this to be a problem? Well,

1376
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 1: the book opens out with the scene it's Wayne Lapierre's

1377
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: wedding in the late nineties and he doesn't show up,

1378
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: the wedding gets delayed. He gets ultimately be rated by

1379
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:51,560
Speaker 1: his wife and the priest into going through with it.

1380
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,879
Speaker 1: It's a very awkward scene. He doesn't make eye contact

1381
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: with his bride during the ceremony. It's very weird, And

1382
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: I use the scene to make a point about Wayne Lapierre. Right,

1383
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: He's a very kind of anxiety riddled person. But over

1384
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 1: the years, people have learned, vendors have learned, people who

1385
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: support the NRA have learned that if you yell at

1386
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:14,799
Speaker 1: Wayne Lapierre long enough, he's going to improve a contract

1387
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 1: for whatever money that you're asking for. So what's the

1388
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: basis of the rat Wayne Lapierre is at the very

1389
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: core of it. Now, the problem really did get worse

1390
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 1: over the Obama era, right, because the NRA really does

1391
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 1: succeed and do well in fundraising in years when Democrats

1392
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 1: are in power. It's during the Obama era where a

1393
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: lot of this corruption happens. But ironically, it's during the

1394
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: Trump era, when money contracts and there's less fundraising, that

1395
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,600
Speaker 1: these acts of corruption begin to bubble up during the

1396
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: contraction of their financial situation. So let's talk about that.

1397
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: You write in the book, quote the foreseeable decrease in

1398
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 1: revenue during the Trump era because when Democrats are in power,

1399
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: they're good. It's scary. Oh, they're going to come for

1400
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: your guns, et cetera, et cetera. When Trump gets elected,

1401
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 1: there's a predictable decrease in revenue. You say, that had

1402
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: not been addressed, and every department within the organization resisted

1403
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:12,640
Speaker 1: the cuts that Wayne proposed. Meanwhile, the cost of NRATV

1404
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: continued to rise, and the problem got so bad that

1405
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: by the end of twenty eighteen, the NRA was struggling

1406
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 1: to pay staff salaries. Tell us about their sort of

1407
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: implosion during the Trump years. Yeah, they were finding it

1408
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: hard to make payroll. That's how dire the situation was

1409
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 1: in the twenty eighteen twenty nineteenth timeframe. And that's where

1410
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 1: another interesting character comes in, that of Oliver North. Oliver North,

1411
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: of course, is famous for the Iran concrace scandal. But

1412
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: he comes in. He's brought in as the president of

1413
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: the NRA. Wayne Lapierre hopes he can fundraise using Oliver

1414
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,560
Speaker 1: North's celebrity and kind of fundraise his way out of

1415
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: the problem. But Oliver North, when he comes in realizes

1416
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 1: there's a deep, deep rot in this organization. He tries

1417
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: to initiate in the internal audit of the NRA and

1418
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: ends up getting kicked out of the NRA. And it's

1419
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: very climactic scene in the book in this Indianapolis hotel

1420
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: suite that I outlined. Wow, that's so wild. You know,

1421
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:13,519
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you doing this reporting, Tim. I do

1422
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: think it is very important. Like we said, this is

1423
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: about misuse of funds. Regardless of what you think of

1424
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 1: the organization, there are many millions of people joined it

1425
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 1: in good faith and really believe in the mission, and

1426
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: I do think it's a tragedy that they're getting taken

1427
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: advantage of. Book comes out today. We're going to have

1428
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: a link in the description. Is there anywhere else that

1429
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 1: you would like or anything else you'd like people to do.

1430
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 1: I'd love for them to buy the book. Awesome, Well,

1431
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: we'll have the link. Everybody can go and check it out.

1432
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you joining us, man, Thank you, Thanks

1433
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: for the great reporting. Tim, great to have you. Thanks

1434
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 1: everybody for watching. We really appreciate it. We've got the

1435
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,479
Speaker 1: studio upgrades, we're dialing in the cameras. Everything's working with

1436
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: the podcast. Thank you. In terms of the just sticking

1437
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: with us, we have growing pains. We're a very small business,

1438
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: a small team and more. A lot of it is

1439
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 1: just Crystal and I texting back and forth like how

1440
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 1: do I deal with this problem? I don't know of

1441
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: that problem, but look, I would take it over working

1442
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 1: for a big corporation any day of the week. The

1443
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 1: only thing that makes it work is your guys support.

1444
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,839
Speaker 1: So if you can help us out, the premium subscription

1445
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 1: is right there. You know, you get all these benefits

1446
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: and more. But really what it is is that you're

1447
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 1: supporting the mission of the show. We just upgraded the studio.

1448
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,799
Speaker 1: We want to be able to expand the team if necessary,

1449
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: bring in any resources possible in order to make the

1450
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 1: show as good as possible for you, but also to

1451
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 1: spread the message and to spread the word to as

1452
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: many people as humanly possible. So thank you all so much.

1453
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 1: Already cooking up ideas for the midterm election so that

1454
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,560
Speaker 1: we can make sure we provide the best coverage of

1455
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: anyone out there. That is our goal. You guys make

1456
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: that possible. We love you so much. Listen one note,

1457
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: I'm having a little bit of family health issues. Everybody's fine, buddy.

1458
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 1: I'm going to take Thursday off. Marshall will be here

1459
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: with Sager, so you'll be in very good hands and

1460
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: I will see you back here next week. We'll take

1461
01:19:54,439 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: care of the studio for you. See you Thursday. She