1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learned the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, they call 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: me Ben, and you're joined as always with our super 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: You are here and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: want you to know. A question for you guys at 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: the top of the show. Have have you all, either 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: of you all started ordering holiday gifts things of that nature. No, 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: I have not. Yeah, I'm one of those last minute 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: is the best minute types myself when it comes to this. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: But we know that we are entering one of the 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: busiest shipping periods in UH in the year for at 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: least the domestic US and a lot of other countries 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: where in UH the Christian celebration of Christmas is common, right, 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: And the weird thing is that although we always think 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: about shipping and the passage of letters and goods during 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: this time of year, it's an ongoing twenty four seven 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: three sixty five days a year operation and it's huge. 22 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: The evidence about the enormity of this industry is all 23 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: around you. Specifically, you look around as you're listening to 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: this episode. Where does all this stuff around you come from? 25 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: We are today recording in the legendary stuff you should 26 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: know studio. I say legendary. Can we say legendary? It 27 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: is certainly, Yeah, first show to hit a billion downloads, 28 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: it's a legend. And we're looking at pictures of Josh 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: and Chuck all around us, and there are a couple 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: of ure are a couple of cameos of other non 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: on SISK people here. Let's say I think that's Jonathan 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: Strickland there the back left of and and all of 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: these were shipped to our offices. Yes, that's correct. And 34 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: if you look around your neck of the Global Woods, 35 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: whatever room or environment you find yourself in today, it's 36 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: strange to think about how much of this stuff came 37 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: from so far away. You see, centuries ago, most of 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: the possessions the average person had would probably be locally made. 39 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: But nowadays even the most mundane items may come from 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: halfway across the planet. We're talking towels, uh, chess sets, 41 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: any consumer good really created out of either plastic or metal, 42 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: and that you and Paul and I went through a 43 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: period a few years back where, for reasons we we 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: don't need to get in the weeds about we were 45 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: getting a lot of technological stuff from China from a 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: place called Mono Price. Remember that I do recall, and 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: I would be so baffled because some of this was 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: relatively sophisticated equipment. It would be so baffled to think 49 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: that the the economy was so complicated it was cheaper 50 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: for us to buy something from China oceans away that 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: it was to buy something from say California. It's true, 52 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: and so we're going to look into shipping today, but 53 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: perhaps not in the way you might assume. And to 54 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: get us to the dark, murky exploration of today's episode, 55 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: we're going to have to start with things that are 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: absolutely true. So here are the facts. So the post 57 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Office nowadays, on on podcast, ads and other places alike, 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: is often maligned, though the ads have lessened quite a 59 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: bit in the past few years. Um, but you know, 60 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: when you imagine the post office and going to visit 61 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: there to send something out, that's one thing. But then 62 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: when you imagine the orchestration that it is required to 63 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: get things, whether it's just a simple letter or package 64 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: that ways a hundred fifty pounds shipps from one place 65 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: to another, it's it's a incredibly difficult task that they're 66 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: faced with, and they do it every day. Before the 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: United States Post Office, you have to imagine you were 68 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 1: putting things on a rail car a lot of times 69 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: and then sending it off. You were putting it on 70 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: a person who was riding horseback for a long time. Yeah, 71 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: that's right. Before these state levels shipping institutions existed, moving 72 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: goods from one place to another was a just one 73 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: long trust fall. You'd have to find a private courier. 74 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: That courier would have to make their own way from 75 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: point A to point B. We're talking, you know, we're 76 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: talking like European history, the history of ancient empires. This courier, 77 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: if they made it from point A to point B, 78 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: would take a long time, especially if it wasn't from 79 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: if point A was in a different city, country, or 80 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: region than point B. If you were lucky months later, 81 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: then we get back to you. Remember all that includes 82 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: personal security of the courier, right right. It depends upon that, 83 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: and it depends upon the trustworthiness, the dependability of the courier. 84 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: If this courier disappeared for one reason or another, you're 85 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: s o l As everybody understands, this is a family show, 86 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: and thus that stands for sorely out of luck. In 87 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: the US, the gold Rush and the westward expansion led 88 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: to a fundamental shift in shipping. Things like the pony 89 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: express that you mentioned earlier, matt Uh. Those those things failed, 90 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: they were bought up, or they simply went away. Other 91 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: job ance rose, like Wells Fargo, which some people may 92 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: not know. Wells Fargo did not begin as a bank. 93 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: It began as a shipping interest. Yeah. They they brought 94 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: carriages into the mix. They also retained that logo iconic. 95 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: What what colors are those? Yellow and red? Orange and magic? 96 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: I just see the red, okay to see the read. Uh. 97 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: But because of these things, soon it was possible to 98 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: reliably send goods and letters from one end of the 99 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: continent to the next, and the rise of the transcontinental 100 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: Railroad played a huge role in that. In this country. 101 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: Ever since then, shipping and transportation have evolved in step 102 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: with one another, and eventually this created the massive interconnected 103 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: trad sphere we all enjoy the benefits and drawbacks of today. 104 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: This sphere ranges across public entities and private companies. Things 105 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: are carried by automobile, aircraft, cargo, ship, on foot, and 106 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: even occasionally here in via livestock. Nice like beast a burden, 107 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: I mean too bad for the beast, I guess, which 108 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: feels like a derogatory term. But the animals um and well. 109 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: And think about it this way. There is a very 110 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: very much distinct possibility that the components the things that 111 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: make up with the electronics you're using right now, your laptop, 112 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: whatever it is you're using, your your phone maybe to 113 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: listen to this, they have traveled further around the world 114 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: than you may Ever, that's true. That's true. They came 115 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: a long way to see you. Also, we're in a 116 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 1: situation such that it makes more economic sense for these 117 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: long trips to occur, more so than you would think. 118 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: One one famous example concerns fish in Scotland. It is 119 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: economically more feasible for fish to be caught in Scotland, 120 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: shipped to Nina for processing, you know, the filet of 121 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: the fish and so on, and then shipped back to Scotland. 122 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: Then it does to have the fish processed in Scotland. 123 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: It's weird, right, It boggles the mind, it does. And 124 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: one of the primary players in this story is something 125 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: called containerization, which I know sounds like a buzzword, made 126 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: up term, but it describes. It describes this process. We've 127 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: all seen those looming rectangular containers on the backs of 128 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: tractor trailers, on train cars, rusting away and weird industrial areas, 129 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: or maybe being repurposed to be a chic hipster cocktail 130 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: bar or something. Those things are ubiquitous, They're everywhere. Each 131 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: one of these shipping containers is a tiny vital piece 132 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: forming the backbone or perhaps the circulatory system of the 133 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: world's trade economy. Containerization, basically, it's a system that's anderdize 134 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: as these containers such that they can fit on the 135 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: majority of things that will transport them. You can fit them. 136 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: You can fit x amount of them on a cargo ship. 137 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: From there, you can break up that load of containers 138 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: to ship some via tractor trailers. We have a ton 139 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: of truckers in our audience of people who work in shipping. 140 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: So first off, you are on sung heroes. Thank you 141 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: very much for keeping this strange house of cards from 142 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: collapsing absolutely. And also shout out to all you lorry 143 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: drivers out there and lorry drivers as well. So this 144 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: concept of containerization, this great standardization of shipping containers, dates 145 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: back centuries, right, goes back to the seventeen hundreds. I 146 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: want to say, in the coal mining regions of England 147 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: it really hits its boom, and it goes worldwide after 148 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: World War Two, and this boom has continued. We have 149 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: the numbers to prove it. Yes, in the world of tipping, 150 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: the cargo ship stands ahead above all others. It is 151 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: the king, according to the International Maritime Organization, of everything 152 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: shipped in the world, everything shipped in the world is 153 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: on a cargo vessel at some point. That's bizarre. Of everything, 154 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: not of Tickle me Elmo's, not of your favorite vinyl 155 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: re issues, of everything. There are over twenty million shipping 156 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: containers in the world. We actually don't know how many 157 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: there are anymore, because we built them so quickly. They're 158 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: somewhere right now as you listen to this, between five 159 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: or six million that are on the road or on 160 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: the ship at sea, all across the planet. In total, 161 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: these cargo containers, as individual boxes make about two hundred 162 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: million trips per year they get around. This works out 163 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: to more than eleven billion tons of stuff. Etches, sketches, volvos, grain, 164 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: different cereals, oil, pictures of Christopher walking. Whatever, you can imagine, 165 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: it has been on a cargo ship at some point. 166 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: Although stuff they don't want you to know. T shirts right, 167 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: they're out floating somewhere by Diego Garcia as we speak, right, right. 168 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: So there are some downsides though, because we mentioned everyone 169 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: enjoys the benefits of this, but we also just briefly 170 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: alluded to some drawbacks. Yeah, there are certainly downsides to 171 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: this whole system. About ten thousand containers get lost at 172 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: sea every year. Imagine that just it fell over the side. Guys, 173 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. Or all that 174 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: ship we can't find it. Yes, yes, we see different 175 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: examples of this in economic anecdotes. One of them would 176 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: be the story of the rubber Ducks. Did you ever 177 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: hear about this? I've read that book, The Small the 178 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: short book by Coral. No, I don't I can't remember 179 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: who wrote it, but it's a book about ten little 180 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: rubber ducks that fell overboard when they were being shipped 181 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: across the sea. Yeah, a little bit less than twenty 182 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: nine thousand rubber ducks were lost in because the cargo 183 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: ship container tumbled into the North Pacific. I think the 184 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: newer was around eight hundred, and the rubber ducks were 185 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: packaged with other bath toys. They were headed from China 186 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: to the US, but the currents took them and took 187 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: They actually provided a great deal of insight for oceanographers, 188 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: people who study ocean currents and Arctic geography, and they 189 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: were able to learn more about how currents functioned because 190 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: they just had to follow the ducks. Uh, that's amazing 191 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: because it's literally the story of Eric Carls ten little 192 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: rubber ucks. Well, the story I've been reading to my 193 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: son forever. Well, well it appears, uh it is non 194 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: fiction or at least based on a true story. There's 195 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: another drawback, which is that these cargo ships generate a 196 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: great deal of pollution. They emit an estimated seven hundred 197 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: ninety six million tons of carbon dioxide that was in 198 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, and while the number, while people are 199 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: working to bring that number down, it's it's a hard 200 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: economic cost. There's not really way to move around it. 201 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: Because you see Despite those drawbacks, despite the fact that 202 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: we lose ten thousand containers at least of stuff a year, 203 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: it's still more efficient to move it that way than 204 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: it is by shipping it via land or air. Just 205 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: the way. It's geography, it's the way the continents work. 206 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: It's geography, and it's mass. Like if you even if 207 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: you have giant airplanes, they can carry a proportion of 208 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: what would be on a shipping container ship. That's so 209 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: weird to say you couldn't carry as you know, you 210 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: couldn't get as much across for the price. It's it's 211 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: it's obviously and you obviously can't get to certain parts 212 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: of land from other parts of land when there's a 213 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: giant ocean in between. Right until we create a global 214 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: road network. Yes, this is a possibility, but it's still 215 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: very very much not plausible. One day, one day it's yeah. 216 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: It's it's strange because, compared to the energy expended moving 217 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: stuff via plane or truck, shipping is actually far less 218 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: damaging in terms of greenhouse gases released when you ship 219 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: stuff via cargo ship. If you send a container from 220 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: say Shanghai to France, you omit fewer greenhouse gases than 221 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: the truck that takes the container from one place in 222 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: France to another. Wow, weird when you think about it. 223 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: It's it's again, it's a problem of scale. And there 224 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: is absolutely no question, folks, this is a massive, gargantuan industry. 225 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: It employs millions of people and it moves billions of dollars. 226 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: The world economy as we know it would be gone 227 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: without global shipping, right we would we would enter a 228 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: dark age. It is the backbone right now of our society, 229 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: whether whether we want to believe that or not. It's weird, yeah, yeah, 230 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: just as the U S economy would collapse without shipping 231 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: companies or state institutions like the USPS, UPS, FedEx of course, 232 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: and so on. But here's our question for today, and 233 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: it's a question we encounter any time we contemplate any 234 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: system of this size. What if there's more behind the curtain? 235 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: What doesn't the shipping industry want you to know? And 236 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: we'll get to it right after a word from our 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Then let's get into the people 238 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: who want to either take stuff away from our shipping 239 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: containers or smuggle something through our shipping systems. Here's where 240 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. This industry is cartoonishly crooked. It is 241 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: so crooked and so corrupt. And let's let's look at 242 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: a couple of specific examples here. First, smuggling. Doubtlessly, smuggling 243 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: is one of the first things we think of when 244 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: we think of crime and the transportation of goods. It's 245 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: a big business, and business is great for smugglers and traffickers. 246 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,359 Speaker 1: Whether we are talking the smuggling of drugs, the smuggling 247 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: of weapons, the tragic and heartbreaking trafficking of people, it's 248 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: probably not going to stop. With the sheer volume of 249 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: activity occurring every single second at every single level of 250 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: the global trade network, authorities are at the very least 251 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: hard pressed to discover, apprehend, and prosecute the criminals involved. 252 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't help right that, unlike street level dealers, groups 253 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: or individuals with the capital to operate international smuggling rings 254 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: are not only overwhelmingly well off, they're often connected to 255 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: state level actors or enormous private entities also known as 256 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: the same people who are tasked with on paper, stopping 257 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: these crimes from recurring, or even low level people within 258 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: those systems that they know are at certain strategic places. Yikes. 259 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: So Let's let's consider a specific story to to kind 260 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: of look closer into this. So let's go back to 261 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: July twenty eleven the Guyane, which is a ship. It 262 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: was seized by the US Customs after authorities found twenty 263 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: tons twenty tons of cocaine aboard or was it eighteen tons? Oh? 264 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: It makes a massive difference, doesn't it. This is so 265 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: this happens pretty frequently in uh in drug bust, and 266 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious and I think a lot of 267 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: people listening are going to agree with us here. Why 268 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: would two tons go missing? Have you ever noticed? Have 269 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 1: you ever noticed when there's a large bust of illicit drugs, 270 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: the numbers get kind of uh, kind of fudgy real quick. 271 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: It was twenty but you know, we just rewaited. It 272 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: was just eighteen. I guess we made an error, you know, 273 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: heat of the moment. Sheets that's a Yeah, we're not 274 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: accusing anyone here, We're just saying maybe it's a bit 275 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: of a pattern. I'm not accusing I am observing a pattern. Sure, yeah, 276 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: no one ever. You never see a drug bust where 277 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: someone says, oh, we thought we uh, we thought we 278 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: found uh five hundred pounds of marijuana, but actually it 279 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: was five hundred and sixty. No, the never goes up, 280 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: It always fudges down anyhow. So let's get back to 281 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: that twenty or eighteen tons of coke. Right, for comparison, 282 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: eighteen tons of cocaine, that's about the size of three 283 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: full grown African bull elephants, and that translates the cocaine, 284 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: not the elephants, to an estimated street value of over 285 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: over one billion dollars US. So yea for customs. They 286 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: caught this, right, they caught this. They seized the craft 287 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: the what is it called the Mediterranean Shipping Shipping Companies Guyane, 288 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: the MSc Guyane. Things got complicated very quickly. You see, 289 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: the MSc Guyane is a Liberian flagged vessel. That means 290 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: it sails under the flag of the country Liberia, but 291 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: it is not owned nor operated by a Liberian company. Instead, 292 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: it's operated by that company. You just give a shout 293 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: out to Matt the Mediterranean Shipping Coe. They are a 294 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: Switzerland based global shipping conglomerate. Hold on a second, so 295 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: it's the Mediterranean Shipping Company with a Liberian flag based 296 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: in Switzerland, and they only sort of own it bis 297 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: gets sketchering sketcher as we ascend the ladder of ownership 298 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: and profit. The vessel was financed by JP Morgan what 299 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: you may recognize from some earlier episodes in New York City, Right, 300 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: the two companies structured the purchase of this vessel such 301 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: that the ship was quote left unpack this owned by 302 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: client assets in a transportation strategy fund run for JP 303 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: Morgan's asset management arm. What right, exactly who really owns 304 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 1: this at the end of the day. Where does the 305 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: check get sent to you know what I mean? Where 306 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: does its bank account ultimately collects whatever margin a prophet 307 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: is here. It's a strange question. JP Morgan, by the way, 308 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: has at the time of recording, refused to release a 309 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: public statement regarding this. And look, we don't know where 310 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: all that coke came from, but it was not us, right, 311 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: and said, yeah, look guys, we had nothing to do 312 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: with that twenty six tons of cocaine. And they're like, oh, 313 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: we thought it was eighteen. They go, oh, interesting, wrong number. 314 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: Uh this is j Dan. Yeah, there's not the one 315 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: you're looking for. Yeah, we're technically a river bank, not 316 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: a financial institution. I'm pretty sure you're looking for HSBC. 317 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: They're they're the ones. HSBC, is what I said, H 318 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: S B C C. I can't hear you, So I 319 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: hope that's how it works. You know, at some point 320 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: in history, there was someone who was part of an 321 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: other eyes legitimate financial institution, maybe in the days of 322 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: like telegraphs or something, who totally faked that their equivalent 323 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: of a phone wasn't working. I think, oh, sorry, we 324 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: thought it was an a then a dash our our 325 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: dinner daughter was just not and then the Great Depression. 326 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: But but it's true. They've been tremendously cag about this 327 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: because we see this interlocking system of ownership which, without 328 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: profiling too hard, I want to say, it feels very 329 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: much like a shell game. It feels very much like 330 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: a way to maximize profit while avoiding liability, which is 331 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: what companies do well. And they just happened to get caught. 332 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: They just happened to get caught. Yeah, this single bust 333 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: as part of an ongoing investigation, so we don't know 334 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: all the details about it. You can see some low 335 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: level and some pretty high level crew members who were 336 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: implicated in bringing a ard parcels of cocaine off the 337 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: coast of Perue. But as far as the person who 338 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: organized brokered the whole deal, the reason the coke interest 339 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: in Perue knew where the ship was going to be, 340 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: and the reason people in the ship got I think 341 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: one guy got just as little as fifty thou dollars 342 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: for helping loaded on, which sounds like great money until 343 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: you know you're going to jail. Uh. These these people 344 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: have been implicated, but there's no one has found the 345 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: puppet master yet. And while this was a big bus, 346 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: this was not anomalous by virtue of simply being a 347 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: drug bus. Because the U. S. Customs and Border Protection 348 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: claims that they are busting people left and right every day. 349 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: The U S. Customs and Border Protection claim that they 350 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: seas an average or seized an average of four thousand, 351 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty seven pounds of narcotics every day. 352 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: That's a lot, not quite eighteen tons, but it's a lot. 353 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: And again we've talked about this before. It really is 354 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: just one of those things that cannot occur without help 355 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: from somebody somewhere, some kind of corruption. Right. This leads 356 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: us to another dark side of the industry, and we'll 357 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: dive into it. After a word from our sponsor, we're back. 358 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: So the shipping industry probably since the first boat was made, 359 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: or the first moon, not the first boat, since the 360 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: first laws were made by some authority saying thou shalt 361 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: give me a cut right of of whatever this pie 362 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: is in question. Ever since that moment, corruption has existed 363 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: every time somebody makes uh. Let's think of it as 364 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: um light and shadow. Right. Every time somebody makes a 365 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: law that exists in the light, allow with transparency, you 366 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: know what I mean, there is another practice, uh, an 367 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: analog to that, a shadow law that will exist in 368 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: the criminal community or in the underground. That's why we 369 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: have all these old tropes about honor among thieves and 370 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: whether or not it exists. That's why you hear uh 371 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: mafios talk about a code of one sort or another. 372 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: Because human beings inherently attempt to impose order upon any 373 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: sort of interaction with the world around them or with 374 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: the people they meet. The shipping industry is going to 375 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: be cursed with corruption for the foreseeable future because of 376 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: a few very easily explained reasons. First, the crews in 377 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: these vessels have a really tough job. They make thousands 378 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: of stops at ports all around the world every year. 379 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: And these ports are in numerous countries, very very different countries. 380 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: Every single one has its own distinct set of laws 381 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: and legal systems. And as anyone can assure you, the 382 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 1: rule of law is not the same in every country, 383 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: like here in the US. If you are not wealthy, 384 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 1: then the rule of law is pretty secure. Your odds 385 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: of getting in trouble for murdering someone are pretty high. Again, 386 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: if you're not wealthy. If you are wealthy, then you 387 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,719 Speaker 1: have a different set You have a set of shadow laws, 388 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: just like we described before. But these folks, these captains 389 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: and crews of these ships will not only go to 390 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: places with vastly different sets of laws, social moorias, legal systems, 391 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: things like that, different institutions they have to interact with. 392 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: They also encounter tremendous bureaucracy, right, I mean, in all 393 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: kinds of different ship inspections. Every time or mostly when 394 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: they go into port, there's gonna be some kind of inspection, 395 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: some kind of immigration or customs that they have to 396 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: deal with just by even entering apport um. And there 397 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: are also, you know, different environmental concerns in the varying 398 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: countries that you're going to encounter as well. And you 399 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: have to imagine, you know, during these um inspections, right, 400 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: you're you're on this ship, you're the captain or the crew. 401 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: You show up. Now this whole other team comes through 402 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: and runs these inspections, right, and a lot of times 403 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: just to get through that inspection, or maybe even to 404 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: have someone look the other way. That's just hypothetically about 405 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: some you know, discrepancy in the weight of certain cargo, sure, 406 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: or the screams coming from a container. Yeah, maybe that too, um, 407 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: but you would have to bribe this team of people 408 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: coming in from whichever country you're going to. And even 409 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: if you're not shipping anything, I listen, even if you're 410 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: not doing anything illegal, you may still have to participate 411 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: in this bribery system just to get through your date. 412 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: Because refusing to pay these I'm gonna keep calling these 413 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: things shadowy, refusing to pay these shadow taxes will lead 414 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: to at the very least delays, sometimes huge delays. And 415 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: you have to understand when these people are operating, that 416 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: last port of call that they just went to is 417 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: one in a series of ports. So there's a very 418 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: very high chance of a domino effect if they don't 419 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: get to leave on time. They're also punitive finds that 420 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: will be legally defended by the country in which the 421 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: port exists, and these fines can you know. It's like 422 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: they used to say about law enforcement officers in the 423 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: US that if if an elio wants to write you 424 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: a ticket for something, they will find something. While that 425 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: may not be a d percent true, it's absolutely true, 426 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: and a lot of these ports, the worst case scenario 427 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: is that refusal to participate in this bribery system can 428 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: result in physical harm to the crew, maybe even fatalities. 429 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: The typical euphemism for bribery, we hope you enjoy this, 430 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: and we hope you have examples of your own. Is 431 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: a facilitation payment? A facilitation payment? Oh yeah, A you're 432 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: doing No, that's great, that's great. We're gonna get you 433 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: out of here like it. He split. We just gotta 434 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: get this little facilitation payment going first, if you know 435 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: what I mean. I'm just gonna hold my hand out 436 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: here and wait for you to facilitate. Wait, wait, I'm 437 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 1: facilitating the payment. I thought you were. I thought this 438 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: was a payment for you to facilitate. You don't understand 439 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: this is my this is my job. And what I'm 440 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: saying is, in order for me to do my job, 441 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: I need a little facilitation. Oh you know, okay, okay, 442 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: now that's my first time in the Port A Lago, sir. 443 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: But I have nothing in my hand still. Oh oh 444 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: oh gosh u okay, hang on, let me let me 445 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: make a phone call real quick. But actually it would 446 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: probably be much smoother than yeah. Yeah, really, it's kind 447 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: of like ah, it's I know a friend of mine 448 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: whom I will not identify, actually did participate in low 449 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: level smuggling from Russia to the U S not for 450 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: not for some sort of nefarious reason, snowden right, he 451 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: was just coming back to see some people and then 452 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: left again. Uh, this friend of mine actually was getting 453 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: some pre uh communists takeover children's literature because this friend 454 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: of mine is a nerd, right. And this friend of 455 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: mine had never broken a law in the US of 456 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: which I am aware, and this friend of mine had 457 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: never broken a law in any country, but they said 458 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: it was very easy to break the law in Russia, 459 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: and they have following complaint. Again, Russian Russian speakers, people 460 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,479 Speaker 1: have lived in Russia, please let us know if this 461 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: jives with you, because Matt and Paul and I have 462 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: have never been right, Paul, you haven't been to okay, correct, 463 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to check. So here's what this 464 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: person says. A person says they heard that they could 465 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: buy some of this literature, and technically it's illegal for 466 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: them to take it out of the country. But again, 467 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: they're not moving Heroin, They're not moving you know, weapons 468 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: of war or anything. So they go to essentially a 469 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: black market location to buy these books, these children's books, 470 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: and they said it was the best customer service experience 471 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: they had in the country because apparently at the time 472 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: this person was there, there are all kinds of things 473 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: we take for granted in the West, niceties that just 474 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: do not exist there, and one of them is that 475 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: here here, if you go to a business, they will 476 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: make change. If you're paying for something that's ten dollars 477 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: and thirteen cents and you just have a twenty bill, 478 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: that will make change for you. In Russia, apparently that 479 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: was not the case. You're expected to have exact change. 480 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: Now again, I don't know I cannot first verify this firsthand, 481 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: but this person said when they went, no one would 482 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: smile at them when they were, you know, in a 483 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: legal transactional situation. But when they went to the black 484 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: market thing, the people were all pretty nice and multilingual, 485 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: and this person speaks Russian, so anyway it shouldn't have mattered. 486 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: And then they happily made change, and the person said, 487 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the black market just works better and 488 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: more efficiently depending on where you are in the world. 489 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: And as much as I hate to admit it, I 490 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: think that person is onto something. I think the people 491 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: whom your friend encountered, we're just reading him and or 492 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: his or her compatriots who were with her or him, 493 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: whoever it was. I think the smiling thing was just 494 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: a tactic to read whether or not they were police. Oh, 495 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,719 Speaker 1: I see, Well, maybe it's just flexion of energy to write. 496 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know so. So anyhow, we know that 497 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: bribery exists and proliferates throughout the world. The shipping industry 498 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: is is no different, and anybody who has traveled extensively, 499 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: depend on where you've gone, you have found yourself in 500 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: a bribery situation. Like in some parts of the world. 501 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: It's just part of a police officer's job to propose 502 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: and accepted bribes, and woe betide those who refused to 503 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: play the game. According to someone named Cecilia Mueller tor Brand, 504 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: who is the program director at the Maritime Anti Corruption 505 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: Network or MACIN, a facilitation payment is a low level 506 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: payment made to a low level official to perform a 507 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: routine task, a task you were already entitled to. And 508 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: this is so common that other countries you know that 509 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: participate in the shipping industry have some names and slang 510 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: for these sorts of payments, and frankly, several of them 511 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: are pretty funny. Oh yeah, I very much enjoyed China's 512 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: which is tea money, a lot of tea shipping, give 513 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: me that extra tea money, or the one in Brazil, 514 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: which is just called make me laugh. It sounds like 515 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: a greeting like, yes, hello, welcome to Brazil. We hope 516 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,479 Speaker 1: you're enjoying the port. Now make me laugh. And then, 517 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: because we're an audio podcast, Matt here you extended your 518 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: hand just like that port authority member in oh Okay. 519 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: I thought it was Lagos. He was in Jersey. I 520 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: misread the accent. So another you know, just for comparison, 521 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: many of us might be more familiar with police bribes 522 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: in Guatemala, they say something like, well, you know, could 523 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: you give me some money to help me buy some chicklets. 524 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: I've heard that as actually weirdly specific. Yeah, wait, where 525 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,439 Speaker 1: did you hear I've got some friends in Jersey? Now, 526 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: friends in Jersey also sounds like a euphemism, does it not, Yeah, 527 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: you got some friends in Jersey. It might be they 528 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: said make me laugh. They said you would make me laugh. 529 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: So we want to hear your slang terms for this 530 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of bribery. In the meantime, we want to establish 531 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: that while there are some states, with many states honestly 532 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: legitimately working to address the endemic corruption in the shipping industry, 533 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: most of the burden of this falls on the gigantic 534 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: private shipping conglomerates, and those conglomerates, in many cases themselves 535 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: can benefit from these same corrupt practices that they may 536 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: lament in public or forward facing literature or statements. You know, 537 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? Well, I I guess 538 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: ultimately it means the official numbers that we all get 539 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: to look at, the statistics, the estimates for global shipping 540 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: trades are all at least somewhat inaccurate because We're not 541 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: exactly sure, and we cannot be definitely sure about how 542 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: much stuff is being traded and how much it's all costing. 543 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: We we get the estimates from the conglomerates. Essentially, we 544 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: don't know how much shadow money exists out Yeah, that 545 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: stuff that is either willingly or unwillingly being traded and 546 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: for how much money. And there is genuinely no workable 547 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: solution at this time. Legalizing drugs, of course is I 548 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: think it's clear to say that would be one of 549 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: the biggest, most profound steps towards crippling criminal cartels, at 550 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: least in South America and in maybe a couple of 551 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: maybe in the Golden Triangle. But that won't stop the 552 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 1: bribery because corrupt corruption and smuggling are not simply dependent 553 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: upon illicit drugs. The problem is that no one is 554 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: incentivized to play straight here. There are state level agencies 555 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: and institutions doing their level best to staunch the bleeding. 556 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: But this is a grievous wound um And I don't know, man, 557 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: I feel kind of weird ending on just such a 558 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: negative note. I mean, it's true. Everything we said is true. Yeah, 559 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: I think I'll give you one solution. Anyone and everyone 560 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: working around that ship of containers has to be paid 561 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: so much money that the thought of being able to 562 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: be bribed to bring something onto that ship, um and 563 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: then losing their you know, their wealth that they get 564 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: from working there. They would be incentivized to not break 565 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: the rules. But wouldn't that cut into the profits for 566 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: the conglomerates. Well maybe over you Yeah, you're right, it 567 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: totally would. But what about the ports then, because that's 568 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: where a lot of the corruption comes to your right, 569 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 1: So you would need turrets that had an AI sophisticated 570 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: enough to identify when a bribe was occurring. Oh nice, 571 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: and then they could shoot sleep darts rapidly at any 572 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: possible bribery. And we can do we we can be 573 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: adventures and make a documentary about the death of the 574 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: illegal shipping industry in Brazil and we can call it. 575 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: No one laughs in rio. I just like I. I 576 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: like the gravitas of that, but I don't know if 577 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: it's accurate. I love it. Well, the thing is too 578 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: and delving a little bit too far into psychology here, 579 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: but just really briefly, over the years, you and I 580 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: in the course of research and then the course of 581 00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: experienced conversation have pretty well and definitively established that happiness 582 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: is a comparative or relative term for this species. Multiple 583 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: studies have shown us that below a certain financial threshold, 584 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: people are not just happy. It's not enough to know 585 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 1: that you make money or that you make a wage. 586 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: People don't want to just be satisfied if they work 587 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: in a group environment, they want to know that they 588 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: have more than the other person, or at least as much. So. 589 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: If um, if you and Paul and I were we're 590 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,880 Speaker 1: working in a totally different industry and we all have 591 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: the same job, and we all, let's say we all 592 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: made I don't I'm just fifty thousand a year, and 593 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: we were happy as clams. I don't know where that 594 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: saying comes from, but that that's us. We're super happy. 595 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: And then we find out that one of us makes 596 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: fifty dollars a year, we are very much unhappy. Nothing 597 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: for our personal experience has changed in any way whatsoever, 598 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: save for the knowledge that someone else is doing a 599 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: little better than us. And that is why, that is 600 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: why I argue that bribery at this point will always 601 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: exist because it's not enough for many people to be 602 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: happy with themselves, they have to feel like other people 603 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: are doing worse. Interesting point capitalism, baby, Yeah, I don't 604 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: know if it. I don't know if that bears out 605 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: for everyone. Perhaps you're right. I wish it's too broad 606 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 1: to brush many people. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. So 607 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: let's let's add just one more for fun, because we 608 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the Post Office, but we 609 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: didn't go into detail. Did you hear about the conspiracy 610 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: theory proposed by President Trump back in I did? I 611 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: heard tell via some tweets. Yes, that's correct, that's correct. 612 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: The president and claimed that company Amazon, with whom I 613 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: think many of us are familiar, is costing the United 614 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: Postal Service billions of dollars, and the US taxpayers are 615 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: footing the bills. He had one tweet about this, and 616 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: then he doubled down a few days later and he said, quote, 617 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 1: I am right about Amazon costing the US Post Office 618 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: massive amounts of money for being their delivery boy. Amazon 619 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: should pay these costs plus and not have them born 620 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: by the American taxpayer many billions of dollars. Post Office 621 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,479 Speaker 1: leaders don't have a clue, or do they. We looked 622 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 1: into this and luckily for the U. S taxpayer. The 623 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: numbers don't seem to bear out. The US Post Service 624 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: did lose two point seven billion dollars in seventeen, that's 625 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: per PolitiFact, but it wasn't because it was delivering stuff 626 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: for Amazon. Actually, the opposites the case. Those kind of 627 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: parcel delivery deals they make with private companies like Amazon 628 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: accounted for seven million dollars of the nineteen point five 629 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: billion dollars in revenue that the Post Office made during 630 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: that time. So what that means is that there those 631 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of companies are forming a large amount of the 632 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,839 Speaker 1: revenue generated for the Post Office. Are they getting these 633 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: price breaks that the ordinary human being wouldn't get? But yeah, absolutely, 634 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: because they're also bringing billions of dollars in business, you 635 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, losing two point seven billion 636 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: to make nineteen point five billion, it's weird. Well you 637 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,399 Speaker 1: know again, it's the it's that high level math where 638 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,359 Speaker 1: it almost becomes imaginary. It all is. Certainly it's got 639 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: a million or a billion, whatever you say. And speaking 640 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: of what you say, we want to hear from you, folks. 641 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. This concludes today's episode, 642 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 1: but not the show do we have any merchant marines 643 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: in the audience. What's the weirdest thing you ever had shipped? 644 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: You know, What's what's weirdest think you ever received in 645 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: the mail? What's the weirdest thing you've ever carried in 646 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: the back of your truck that you're driving right now? Oh? Yes, yeah, 647 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: good point. And I know we've got again we mentioned 648 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: it earlier, but we know from our emails and call 649 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: ins and things that a lot several of you, I'm 650 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: gonna venture to say, dozens of you are very are 651 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: driving large trucks with possibly shipping containers on them. Have 652 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 1: you ever had a sealed container? Oh? Yeah, those are 653 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: that's strict. Are they all sealed? Now? I don't know 654 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: how it works exactly once you get down into it 655 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: that far, but I know a lot of them actually seal. 656 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: A lot of places seal their containers. Now, do you 657 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,800 Speaker 1: work for the rail system? Have you ever encountered modern 658 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 1: hobos a k A train kids? Let us know as well, 659 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: that seems like a weird thing to ship. You can 660 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, you can find us on Instagram. 661 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter where we are Conspiracy 662 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show, or some derivation thereof. If you 663 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 1: want to call us, you can leave us a message. 664 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: We are one eight three three st d w y 665 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: t K. If you don't want to do any of 666 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: that but you still want to get in touch with 667 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 1: us and give us a suggestion or a story, you 668 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: can always email us. We are conspiracy at i heart 669 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff They Don't Want You to Know 670 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,720 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 671 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 672 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 673 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:38,960 Speaker 1: your favorite shows