Speaker 1: Welcome to Playback, a variety podcast. On today's show, we're
Speaker 1: talking about standouts from the Toronto Film Festival and what
Speaker 1: movies might win the coveted People's Choice Award. There a
Speaker 1: little bit later, I'll be talking to you and McGregor
Speaker 1: about his directorial debut, American Pastoral, which premiered in Toronto
Speaker 1: last week. So stick around. Okay, hello everyone, I'm here
Speaker 1: with Janelle Riley, who was fresh back from Toronto. Not fresh.
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. I looked out. I didn't have to go
Speaker 1: I of Toronto, but it is literally I yet. Last
Speaker 1: night I hit that point where my eyes were pounding
Speaker 1: from exhaustion. I was just so tired. But you know,
Speaker 1: champagne problems totally. When you saw some good movies, I did,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite? When you saw Boy, That's a tough one.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is really a three way race in
Speaker 1: my heart between La La Land, Moonlight, and Nocturnal Animals.
Speaker 1: Nocturnal Animals was probably the biggest surprise. I loved tom
Speaker 1: Ford single Man. It's been seven years and I've been
Speaker 1: waiting for his follow up movie. Yeah. Uh. And by
Speaker 1: the way, after I saw the movie, I went and
Speaker 1: purchased some tom Ford makeup and it's fantastic. Um So
Speaker 1: if they want to send me anything free. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sitting here wondering what kind of a plug that was.
Speaker 1: I just didn't intend to. I was like, everyone looked
Speaker 1: so good in Nocturnal Animals, and then I found out
Speaker 1: he had a makeup line, and I was at the
Speaker 1: department store and I just I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to look like Amy Adams, which is pretty much true
Speaker 1: of any movie, but but specifically in this movie, it
Speaker 1: looks fantastic. I feel like, sometimes you feel like there's
Speaker 1: a movie that was just sort of made for you,
Speaker 1: you know, and Nocturnal Animals just just checked off all
Speaker 1: my boxes. Um let alone. Actually, I think the first
Speaker 1: time I really got to know you, we bonded over
Speaker 1: our mutual love of Michael Shannon. Of course, he's the best.
Speaker 1: He showed up at his premiere or wherever he was
Speaker 1: with his Hawaiian shirt. Did you see the photos? Oh? Yes,
Speaker 1: you should see what he wore to our studio. It's awesome. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: he's the best and will finally get an Oscar nomination
Speaker 1: for Best Supporting Actor since I guess Revolutionary Road was
Speaker 1: his last Domination should have been nominated last year, left
Speaker 1: over from last year, and it's a fantastic performance. Yeah. Here,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the film yet, but I do hear
Speaker 1: he steals his scenes so as only he can. But
Speaker 1: regarding Amy, I mean, she's got a pair of movies
Speaker 1: in the race, and both of them were at Toronto Arrival,
Speaker 1: premiered in Venice went to tell you Ride. We spoke
Speaker 1: to her last week on the podcast and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: two very different performances, I would imagine. Obviously I haven't
Speaker 1: seen Nocturnal, but an Arrival. Uh, she's she's pretty staggering. Um,
Speaker 1: just the level of control that she has in this
Speaker 1: role of of who is going to become a mother?
Speaker 1: It's it's, as I was joking with her, it's hard
Speaker 1: to talk about that movie without ruining. I know, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be very careful. Um, but between these two movies,
Speaker 1: why don't you talk about the two performances and where
Speaker 1: you think the strong suits are. Well, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: I think nocturnal animals. Actually, I don't know how the
Speaker 1: world is going to respond to nocturnal animals. I know
Speaker 1: I loved it. A lot of people loved it. I
Speaker 1: honestly don't know how it's going to play in the
Speaker 1: rest of the world or how it will. I think
Speaker 1: it'll be a pretty big factor in the Oscar Race. Um,
Speaker 1: so it might be the more Oscar friendly movie. But
Speaker 1: I actually think her performance in a Rival might get
Speaker 1: more attention for her. Um, Nocturnal Animals is very stylized.
Speaker 1: She's very good. Like, don't get me wrong, this is
Speaker 1: totally like a wonderful choice to have to make. But
Speaker 1: I do think Arrival there is so much heart and
Speaker 1: emotion where she's has to be very restrained in Nocturnal Animals.
Speaker 1: I also think, um, and you might be able to
Speaker 1: speak to this better than I can. You know. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of love for Arrival, and it is
Speaker 1: not a traditional sort of movie that you see in
Speaker 1: the Oscar Race, so it might be sort of fun
Speaker 1: to reward her there. But at this point it's I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I just was looking at tweets I sent out a
Speaker 1: year ago. I honestly thought that there would be a
Speaker 1: problem deciding if Cape Blanchett would get nominated for Truth
Speaker 1: or Carol. Yeah me to see, Okay, I loved Truth.
Speaker 1: I thought she was great and Truth I really thought
Speaker 1: she was fantastic and truth and I thought she might
Speaker 1: get nominated for that and we were staggeringly wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it happens. It happens. It does a lot with me,
Speaker 1: believe it or not. Um, you know, the Toronto Audience
Speaker 1: Award is something to talk about, by the way, because
Speaker 1: every year it's it's a good indication of what is
Speaker 1: playing broadly, what is playing well to a broad cross
Speaker 1: section of people, which is instructive as it pertains of
Speaker 1: the Academy Last year Room One, and you know, people
Speaker 1: still didn't give it as due as the season progressed
Speaker 1: and said, oh it's people aren't going to watch that movie,
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. And then it gets not
Speaker 1: only picture but director, and obviously Bree Larson wins Best Actress. Uh.
Speaker 1: To my view, it seems like this this is probably
Speaker 1: the between a couple of movies, La La Land, which
Speaker 1: started in Venice. Went to tell your Ride went to Toronto.
Speaker 1: Everyone that sees it is in love with it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I said, the daby and she'sel yesterday. Oh god, it
Speaker 1: was only yesterday. I said. Look, there might be people
Speaker 1: who La La Land is not their thing, but I
Speaker 1: can't imagine anyone hating this movie, and if they do,
Speaker 1: they might be a serial killer, because it is so
Speaker 1: joyous and fresh, and you can look at it in
Speaker 1: a jaded way and say, well, sure, they got Ryan
Speaker 1: Gosliy and Emma Stone and they made a musical, so
Speaker 1: you know they it's Oscar bait. But no way on
Speaker 1: paper was that Oscar bait When people signed up to
Speaker 1: finance a subversive musical. He completely flips the genre and
Speaker 1: it's here in some ways, and uh, you know it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a an expressionistic musical. It's amazing. It's a
Speaker 1: wonderful film. And you don't like musicals, do you not? Really?
Speaker 1: To be perfectly honest, Although that said, Singing in the
Speaker 1: Rain is one of my favorite movies of all time,
Speaker 1: But how can it not be also very subversive? Yah?
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, it's a great movie. It's um interesting because
Speaker 1: when I saw The Land, I said, I think people
Speaker 1: who don't generally like musicals are actually really going to
Speaker 1: love this movie. Um. And then people who do like musicals,
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see how they Resmond. Now, I
Speaker 1: love musicals, as you know, and I loved it, so
Speaker 1: maybe they'll embrace it, but it is not. Even though
Speaker 1: it takes its homages from you know, big MGM musicals, Um,
Speaker 1: it's not like a traditional musical in any way. I
Speaker 1: think that works for it. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: make fun of me when I say that, but I
Speaker 1: agree with you. You're allowed one or two podcast. Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll keep track. But yeah, I think that somebody until
Speaker 1: Your Ride was making the case to me that the
Speaker 1: fact that it was not particularly in the vein of
Speaker 1: traditional musicals, that that will hurt it in the race.
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking that would have just set it
Speaker 1: up to be compared to you know whatever sound of
Speaker 1: music blah blah blah. But like this is its own thing,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know I I have. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: it not going very far this season, and that couldn't
Speaker 1: include winning the Audience Award. Yeah, I agree. I think
Speaker 1: it's between La La Landed Moonlight and Moonlight is my
Speaker 1: other another one I have here. I saw that in
Speaker 1: Toronto or Tell Your Ride. Obviously a very different movie,
Speaker 1: but a movie that I think it affects everyone who
Speaker 1: sees it. It's it's it's uh. Peter de Bruce and
Speaker 1: I spoke about it last week. But it's the direction
Speaker 1: is really staggering, the performances that Barry Jenkins is able
Speaker 1: to get out of this cast, and the way it's
Speaker 1: just his story laide there and you know, we'll see
Speaker 1: how it goes. I'm sure that Toronto would probably rather
Speaker 1: have like a world premiere when the audience award like
Speaker 1: a lot very interesting, which lyon was the one movie
Speaker 1: I did not see appearing great things about something interesting.
Speaker 1: You might already know this, but Naomi Harris, who's the
Speaker 1: only person in all three segments in Moonlight, came into
Speaker 1: our studio and you know she shot her scenes in
Speaker 1: three days. Yes, it's crazy, and I assume that meant
Speaker 1: that she shot scenes from the first segment one day,
Speaker 1: the middle segment the next day. No, she would say
Speaker 1: she started off the morning an old age makeup, did
Speaker 1: the middle scenes, did the beginning to see because it
Speaker 1: was all based on location, and then in the day
Speaker 1: an old age makeup again. And that just adds a
Speaker 1: whole Because I asked her, I said, do you want
Speaker 1: to talk about the fact you only shot in three days?
Speaker 1: Because you know, um, are you afraid people might sort
Speaker 1: of like be dismissive? And be like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's only a three day performance, we should nominate it. Uh,
Speaker 1: And she was like no, she was more than happy
Speaker 1: to Well, let's be clear. She flew in from the
Speaker 1: junk for Bond in Mexico City to South Florida to
Speaker 1: shoot those three days, so she was in a completely
Speaker 1: other headspace. That makes the performance that much more amazing
Speaker 1: to me. And I actually interviewed her during right before
Speaker 1: Toronto and we spoke about that, and uh, I think
Speaker 1: she's a luck for a nomination. Oh, I do too.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because another luck for a nomination is
Speaker 1: Michelle Williams and Manchester by the Sea And again not
Speaker 1: a lot of screen time, but what they do and
Speaker 1: that screen time is phenomenal. Can we talk about Amazon
Speaker 1: putting that clip out there? I didn't know they did.
Speaker 1: They've released the unless I'm mistaken, I said, I've been
Speaker 1: five days, but I know they screened the clip of
Speaker 1: Michelle's big moment in Manchester by the Sea at CinemaCon
Speaker 1: and now it's used in the trailer a little bit.
Speaker 1: And now they've released this clip and it's it's bugs
Speaker 1: me because it's a moment you have to build to.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess anything that gets people to see
Speaker 1: the movie and anything that sells that performance is good.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't I don't want them to give
Speaker 1: that away. I can't imagine Keneth Lunargain is happy with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, I was at the Nocturnal Animal screening
Speaker 1: where the screen went black three minutes. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you heard about that, and I literally, yeah, I
Speaker 1: literally think I heard a head roll because you know,
Speaker 1: what a perfectionist Tom boy. I'm sure Tom was upset
Speaker 1: about that, But what a testament to the movie and
Speaker 1: how great it was that we were all just like,
Speaker 1: first we thought it was part of the movie. You're like, oh, what,
Speaker 1: what brilliant thing has he done here? And then we
Speaker 1: were just just like, you know, on the edge of
Speaker 1: our seats, like bring it back. That reminds me of
Speaker 1: the time that I saw Chay and the subtitles didn't
Speaker 1: work for like twenty minutes. Oh my god. None of
Speaker 1: us thought that that was a mistake. Everyone just thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this is just Soderberg, keep up. And then the movie
Speaker 1: stopped and the guy came in and said, oh, sorry,
Speaker 1: the subtitles weren't working, and we were like, okay, oh
Speaker 1: that's so fine. Um. Snowdon Yes premiered in Toronto Oliver Stone.
Speaker 1: It also played at Comic Con, which was an interesting
Speaker 1: place to screen it, and they had a big panel
Speaker 1: there where he made headlines with his POKEMONO stuff. He's
Speaker 1: got great sound bites, like he came in and I
Speaker 1: asked him if you know he's become more paranoid since
Speaker 1: making Snowden and like covering the camera on his phone
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, paranoia implies that I might not
Speaker 1: be right seeing Oh. By the way, Oliver Stone in
Speaker 1: our studio, UM, basically production designed his own shots. When
Speaker 1: we were doing the interview. He he had us film
Speaker 1: him and then he got behind the camera, checked it out,
Speaker 1: made sure the lighting was good, made sure he was
Speaker 1: seated in the right place. Um. And you can make
Speaker 1: fun of him if you want, but it looked terrific
Speaker 1: and it was very sweet he does. UM. I like
Speaker 1: that movie a lot. It's very entertaining. It's very un
Speaker 1: Oliver Stone in some ways because it's uh, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say that it's anonymous, but it just has
Speaker 1: a slicker sheen and his movies tend to have it
Speaker 1: doesn't you know again it's I don't mean this to
Speaker 1: sound like a knock see. I do think it feels
Speaker 1: like an all of our Stone movie, like one he
Speaker 1: would have made in the eighties. Um. I think it's
Speaker 1: his best movie in twenty five years since jfk uh
Speaker 1: in telling the story of a Well that's kind of
Speaker 1: faint praise. Let's be honest. I'm just trying to think
Speaker 1: what's happening savages Nixon, Nix and I love Nixon has
Speaker 1: very good performances. But I think it's his best felt
Speaker 1: since Jeff Any Given Sunday. I'm a huge fan. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what, I do love that movie. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: But I do think it's an all of our Stone film,
Speaker 1: and that it surprised me in learning what a patriot
Speaker 1: Edward Snowden was, you know, and that he wanted to
Speaker 1: be a marine before an injury sort of forced him
Speaker 1: to the sidelines. And it made me think of you
Speaker 1: know ron Kovic and uh born on the Fourth of July,
Speaker 1: or Charlie Sheen's character and Platoon. You know, these people
Speaker 1: who went into something very raw, raw America and you know,
Speaker 1: sort of got turned around, have their worldviews challenge absolutely
Speaker 1: every time I look at my computer, I think that
Speaker 1: I need to put something on the camp. Oh I
Speaker 1: did because I saw I also saw a Black Mirror
Speaker 1: the new season and yeah, there's I am terrified to
Speaker 1: turn on my phone at this point, speaking of there
Speaker 1: is an Oscar worthy performance in uh this new season
Speaker 1: of Black Mirror from Bryce Dallas Howard in an episode
Speaker 1: directed by Joe Wright called Nose Dive that yeah, you
Speaker 1: just have to see Bryce Dallas Chastain. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I first, this is a total name dropping story, but
Speaker 1: I have to tell it. I was at the airport
Speaker 1: with her yesterday and yeah, sorry with Bryce and the
Speaker 1: woman's checking your ticket was looking at her and going
Speaker 1: do you use a stage name? And she's like uh,
Speaker 1: and she knew exactly and she's like, well, who do
Speaker 1: you think I am? And the woman was like and
Speaker 1: she actually. Bryce filmed this little interaction with the woman
Speaker 1: and I think she's going to post it on social media,
Speaker 1: but no, it's like it happens all the time. Um.
Speaker 1: And then like I was standing waiting for her outside
Speaker 1: of customs and a couple of people came up to
Speaker 1: me and they were like, Um, your friend is is
Speaker 1: Is she the one from zero Dark thirty. Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: And by the way, you know how much I hate
Speaker 1: to fly, and I need to be like very um
Speaker 1: um filled with zanix in order to get on a plane.
Speaker 1: And I got to give a shout out to Bryce
Speaker 1: Dallice Howard because she kept me so calm and collected.
Speaker 1: And we got on the plane and you know, I
Speaker 1: said goodbye because she was in first class obviously, and
Speaker 1: it was the most relaxed I've ever been on a flight.
Speaker 1: I'll probably need to talk to her next time I
Speaker 1: get on a plane. There. Let's talk about Jackie, which
Speaker 1: was the big acquisition out of the festival. Fox Searchlight
Speaker 1: picked it up after being involved in the development of
Speaker 1: the movie. It's a perfect hone for them. I mean
Speaker 1: Darren Aronofsky, who produced Jackie, did not direct it. Uh.
Speaker 1: And Natalie Portman they obviously collaborated on Black Swall and
Speaker 1: very successfully for Fox Searchlights. Yeah. Yeah, and Pablo Lorraine
Speaker 1: is the director, just had a tribute and Tell Your
Speaker 1: Ride and had two movies Reason Aruta was the other one. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you can I say something gossipy? Oh please? Naruta
Speaker 1: stars Guy el Garcia Burnell, who used to date Natalie Portman.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the connections are amazing. Well, tell me
Speaker 1: about Natalie's performance. I haven't seen the movie yet. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's great, and here's you know, the truth is I
Speaker 1: somehow missed the whole Kennedy Camelot thing, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: as fascinated by them as a lot of people. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's an age thing or just that
Speaker 1: I think quote unquote royalty is silly. But she is
Speaker 1: really amazing. I mean, it's a great study of grief.
Speaker 1: It's just a powerful you know, you believe her as
Speaker 1: a mother, you believe her as a first lady, as
Speaker 1: this you know widow Um. Yeah, it's it's interesting even
Speaker 1: though we know what the story is. I kind of
Speaker 1: don't want to give away too much. I'm curious why
Speaker 1: it took so long for someone to pick Get Up.
Speaker 1: I mean, does it is an esoteric film? I think
Speaker 1: it's actually really commercial interesting. Yeah, I mean it was actually,
Speaker 1: to be honest, it was the one thing that people
Speaker 1: were really saying they really want to see after you know,
Speaker 1: obviously La La land Um. I remember talking to some
Speaker 1: critics who got shut out of the first Present industry
Speaker 1: screening because it was so full and it was in
Speaker 1: their biggest theater. Yeah, it's uh, it's rare for a
Speaker 1: movie nowadays to get picked up in Toronto and get
Speaker 1: turned around as a as a contender. It happened with
Speaker 1: The Wrestler a number of years ago. It happened with
Speaker 1: Still Alice a couple of years ago. Um. But you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: I think with with just the turmoil surrounding Birth of
Speaker 1: a Nation, Searchlight would probably like to have something else
Speaker 1: to play with this season. So good for them that
Speaker 1: they have something else to work with. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it'll be very interesting to see Natalie Portman back in
Speaker 1: the race. Yeah, I mean she's great. Last time we
Speaker 1: saw her in the race, she was pregnant on stage
Speaker 1: winning an oscar and looking amazing. So yeah, great. Well,
Speaker 1: and you know, I actually went to the Birth of
Speaker 1: Any screen in Toronto, even though I've already seen the movie. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I have to say it played great, did it? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I read the stuff about the standing ovations
Speaker 1: and everything, although it, let's be honest, everything in Toronto
Speaker 1: people give standing ovations. Yeah, but I do still love
Speaker 1: that film, and I will say that in my circles
Speaker 1: just kind of my conversations with Academy members. More often
Speaker 1: than not, people are more concerned with what the movie
Speaker 1: is going to be, and they want to separate art
Speaker 1: from the artist. We'll see how it plays out. I'm
Speaker 1: sure we'll be talking about it all season. Do you
Speaker 1: think having mel Gibson in the race this year helps
Speaker 1: or hurt Snate Parker? It's interesting. I mean, it's certainly interesting.
Speaker 1: Our editor Andy What wrote a piece about that recently. UM,
Speaker 1: it's it will present the idea of hypocrisy pretty starkly,
Speaker 1: I think. Uh. In regarding that film, Mel Gibson's film
Speaker 1: hexall Ridge, which played Venice and only Venice, UM great movie,
Speaker 1: I have no doubt. I mean, he is a really
Speaker 1: good filmmaker. I really liked Apocalypto. I did too. I
Speaker 1: think it's a fantastic filmmaker. I think that The Passion
Speaker 1: of the Christ is an amazing film. I've never seen
Speaker 1: it never will because you don't want to deal with I.
Speaker 1: You know, I have issues with torture on film. It's well,
Speaker 1: then yeah, you should skip the Passion. Torture and hurting
Speaker 1: dogs will turn me off to any movie. Stay away
Speaker 1: from white Gut then Oh my god, I did so
Speaker 1: you know, they did not sell that movie fairly. Oh
Speaker 1: good god. That was one of my favorite movies of
Speaker 1: last year though, And well, hey, look I like a
Speaker 1: Morris Paros, so I guess there are exceptions, I guess.
Speaker 1: So well, then let's let's let's make a declaration. What's
Speaker 1: gonna win that People's Choice prize because that is going
Speaker 1: to you know, recent winners are the King's Speech, some dog, millionaire,
Speaker 1: uh what else? Gosh room we said. Uh um, I
Speaker 1: really don't know right now. I kind of want to
Speaker 1: say Moonlight because I feel like it's there's something about
Speaker 1: the number of theaters they play into. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: it's regarding all. I mean, law La Land, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be La La Lander. Moonlight is my guests, and I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like, again, it's wrong of me to
Speaker 1: say that La La Land is the obvious choice because
Speaker 1: it's the one everyone loves and it's so accessible. When
Speaker 1: I do think it was made from a place of like,
Speaker 1: I'm making this movie for me, you know, and hopefully
Speaker 1: other people will like it. But um, I just think
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, like seeing people's reactions to Moonlight,
Speaker 1: like Pete like and I just don't think there's anything. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not fair for me to say there's nothing else
Speaker 1: there out there like it because of the same could
Speaker 1: be said of La La Land. Yeah. Yeah, you say moonlight,
Speaker 1: I'll say La La Land. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1: And then I would not rule out nocturnal animals. But
Speaker 1: that might be wishful thinking. But wishful thinking help. Last
Speaker 1: year when my favorite movie of the year, Room One,
Speaker 1: there you go. Well, another movie that played Toronto. We're
Speaker 1: gonna get into with the interview section here in a
Speaker 1: minute was American Pastoral, Ewan McGregor's directorial debut. I'll be
Speaker 1: talking to him and just a little bit, so stick
Speaker 1: around for that. Welcome back everyone, I'm here with Ewan McGregor,
Speaker 1: the star and director of American Pastoral. You would thank
Speaker 1: you for being here today. My great pleasure. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. This is your directorial debut. Uh yeah, my
Speaker 1: first feature film. I did a short film a long
Speaker 1: long time ago, but it was very like literally very short,
Speaker 1: and this was my first feature film. Yes, and a
Speaker 1: long time in the coming. I'll be wanting to do
Speaker 1: it for a long long time, but I was waiting
Speaker 1: to find the right story. Well, I was just going
Speaker 1: to ask, I assume you wanted to do it for
Speaker 1: a while. So what was it about this material that said, okay,
Speaker 1: this is the one. Well I was attached to this
Speaker 1: as as an actor to play this weed for I
Speaker 1: think maybe three years, or maybe over three years. And
Speaker 1: we kept we kept up, we we we we kept
Speaker 1: having um, we kept losing directors a bit like The
Speaker 1: Drummer and Spinal Tap, they would sort of follow it.
Speaker 1: No one died, but it was one of those situations
Speaker 1: where it happened to me before in movies where after
Speaker 1: two or three hit and mrs like that, usually you
Speaker 1: think it's not going to happen and you let it go.
Speaker 1: And I didn't ever let this one go. I didn't.
Speaker 1: I couldn't. Somehow I wanted to play the weed so badly,
Speaker 1: and then um, when it really looked like it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to happen after about three years, I suddenly I
Speaker 1: suddenly thought, well, maybe you know, so this is this
Speaker 1: could be the one I've been waiting for. I've been
Speaker 1: waiting for the right story to tell as a director.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to direct just for the sake of
Speaker 1: doing it or to say that I was a director
Speaker 1: or I've done it, but I wanted to do it
Speaker 1: because I had a story that was burning to tell.
Speaker 1: And I realized the closer this film got to disappearing,
Speaker 1: that this this was the one. And why that is,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's a it's a It
Speaker 1: touched me very deeply. The story. I'm a father of girls.
Speaker 1: I've got four girls. This is very much a story
Speaker 1: about our family, but about a father and a daughter.
Speaker 1: And it came about, I suppose, round about the time
Speaker 1: my eldest daughter was about to leave home. I think
Speaker 1: when I first read the script, she would have been
Speaker 1: about four thirteen or fourteen. So it must have been
Speaker 1: on my mind. And I've only realized this in retrospect,
Speaker 1: but I think it must have been in my mind,
Speaker 1: this idea, that of losing a daughter somehow, And of
Speaker 1: course in our story it's a very extreme example of that.
Speaker 1: Um the family lose their daughter to radicalism. She becomes radicalized,
Speaker 1: politically radicalized, and and disappears into the underground. And so
Speaker 1: that's a very extreme example of loss. Whereas I suppose
Speaker 1: I must have been sort of contemplating the loss of
Speaker 1: my my daughter out of the house of her going
Speaker 1: to college and not waking up in the same house
Speaker 1: as Aus anymore. Um, And now you know, since we
Speaker 1: made the movie and she's not twenty and she has left,
Speaker 1: so you know, I think maybe that's why it connected
Speaker 1: to me so much early on. Yeah, you you actually
Speaker 1: completely saw a question coming, which was regarding the fact
Speaker 1: that your father, I'm a new father, actually terrified me
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, without giving too much away,
Speaker 1: it is it's it's essentially about a father who is
Speaker 1: helpless to affect the path that his daughter's taking, essentially,
Speaker 1: and just kind of that how that helplessness eats at
Speaker 1: him is what I was taking away from it. So
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, being a father of daughters,
Speaker 1: what that element of the story meant for you, And
Speaker 1: so clearly it was sort of everything. I mean. I
Speaker 1: told my eldest when she came to visit while we
Speaker 1: were shooting the film in Pittsburgh, and I said to her,
Speaker 1: you've you taught me everything I needed to know to
Speaker 1: make this movie, and she did. Really, it's difficult. You
Speaker 1: can't put your finger and what exactly it is because
Speaker 1: it's a great many things. Rath Philip Roth, and his
Speaker 1: novel explores to great depth a whole range of um
Speaker 1: issues and thoughts and arguments, if you like. And the
Speaker 1: one of the extraordinary thing is that he's not a father.
Speaker 1: You know, Philip Roth has written this really accurate story
Speaker 1: about parenting and parenting in the sixties, you know, in
Speaker 1: the late fifties, sixties, the Swedest sort of rather a
Speaker 1: modern father in many ways. And he writes about the
Speaker 1: structure between the father and the daughter and the mother
Speaker 1: and the daughter, and the mother and the father, and
Speaker 1: those are very recognizable things that I recognized lots of
Speaker 1: them from my life. But you know, it's very it's
Speaker 1: a it's very deep and broad. So it's difficult to
Speaker 1: put your finger on exactly exactly what that is. And
Speaker 1: I feel like Wrath can be tricky for filmmakers to tackle.
Speaker 1: I think some have struggled with his work in the past.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that is. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's not like overtly cinematic on the page, per se,
Speaker 1: or or anything. Did you find any particular challenge when
Speaker 1: you were setting out to adapt his work as a film.
Speaker 1: My challenge was to try and do it justice. I thought,
Speaker 1: I When I came to the project as director, the
Speaker 1: script was already in a very good form, gen Roman
Speaker 1: of a really beautiful adaptation of the novel, and there
Speaker 1: wasn't really very there wasn't a great deal of work
Speaker 1: for me to do on that script. Of course, there
Speaker 1: was little changes here and there that we worked on together,
Speaker 1: but the but the film that you see is very
Speaker 1: much the script that he wrote that I was presented with,
Speaker 1: and I thought he did a really fine job of
Speaker 1: transposing the novel on onto the onto the page. And
Speaker 1: my job was to make that onto the screen and
Speaker 1: to try and do justice to his work, John Romano's,
Speaker 1: but but also Philip Roth's. And I tried to do
Speaker 1: that by not getting not not being too intimidated by
Speaker 1: the idea that Philip Roth had written the novel, which
Speaker 1: of course is quite an intimidating thought, and just to
Speaker 1: think of it simply what it is, and and I
Speaker 1: felt that very much. It was it was a story
Speaker 1: about a family. It was very much a story about
Speaker 1: a father and a daughter, and the mother and a daughter,
Speaker 1: and and something happens in their family that they have
Speaker 1: to deal with, and it's an exploration of how they
Speaker 1: deal with that, and then on a broader sense, I
Speaker 1: felt like, it's a story of America. It's the story
Speaker 1: about America. It's about postwar American hope and aspiration being
Speaker 1: decimated by the sixties in Vietnam, and and a new
Speaker 1: generation who felt like revel, who felt that things could
Speaker 1: radical change was just imminent, you know, And so I
Speaker 1: tried to do justice to both those things. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: concentrate purely on the sort of family story, and other times,
Speaker 1: and maybe more in the edit room, I suppose try
Speaker 1: and broaden it to become a story of America, because
Speaker 1: I think that's what Roth is talking about. You're a veteran, obviously,
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, was there anything that completely surprised you about
Speaker 1: fine jumping into the director's chair yourself on a feature. No,
Speaker 1: it was as scary as I thought it would be.
Speaker 1: It was quite um. I don't think there was any
Speaker 1: major surprises. I mean, the bit the big part of
Speaker 1: the experience, of course, that which was new to me
Speaker 1: was the financial side of things. This, the everything creative
Speaker 1: was things that I've already been involved in, really, you know,
Speaker 1: working with the creative heads of department, with the director
Speaker 1: of photography, with the costume designer and makeup and hair designers, UM,
Speaker 1: the designer production designer. Those are people who I interact
Speaker 1: with anyway on on a daily basis when I'm working
Speaker 1: as an actor, and that creative conversation I already have
Speaker 1: with them to an extent, not to the depth of
Speaker 1: the extent you do have as a director, but as
Speaker 1: an actor you have some interaction with the designer and
Speaker 1: what you're what your house might look like, or you
Speaker 1: know UM, and with the DP, of course you're working
Speaker 1: with him or her on a daily basis, trying to
Speaker 1: understand the shot and how to act best in that shot.
Speaker 1: So though, that part of the whole experience was as
Speaker 1: thrilling as I thought it would be, and I really
Speaker 1: looked forward to being part of the creative process from
Speaker 1: start to finish, as opposed to normally I just take
Speaker 1: part in the middle part of it in the shoot,
Speaker 1: but to be part of the pre production, to be
Speaker 1: finding the locations, to be discussing with the designer how
Speaker 1: they might look, how they should feel, and then working
Speaker 1: with the costume designer and the makeup and hair designer
Speaker 1: in the same way, how to storytell, especially in a
Speaker 1: story like this that takes place between the late forties
Speaker 1: and the nineties. You know, we've got a huge swathe
Speaker 1: of period through the film, and I wanted that to
Speaker 1: be subtle, but I wanted it to be correct, and
Speaker 1: I wanted it to not be noticeable. Really, and I'm
Speaker 1: proud of the fact that I think that is the case.
Speaker 1: And you watched the film, it doesn't. I don't think
Speaker 1: you'd come away with it thinking, oh, that was a
Speaker 1: great period film. The periods there and and right, but
Speaker 1: really not in your face. And that's a testament to
Speaker 1: their skill and of work. So that side of stuff
Speaker 1: was was just thrilling and exciting. How about casting, casting,
Speaker 1: I thought was I mean, I was very lucky in
Speaker 1: that Dakota and Jennifer were both on board. They were
Speaker 1: both cast when I was cast on the project to
Speaker 1: begin with, so I sort of inherited them. Thank goodness,
Speaker 1: I had my first job as director after after Tom
Speaker 1: Rosenberg told me that I could direct the movie, was
Speaker 1: to go and meet with both of them and asked
Speaker 1: them if they would stay on. And so that was
Speaker 1: that was my first nervous moment, but it was I
Speaker 1: was lucky that they both did, and goodness may they
Speaker 1: both deliver and really it's an extraort. They both give
Speaker 1: extraordinary performances in this film. So I was very lucky
Speaker 1: there and then the other parts. Was was an interesting process.
Speaker 1: Peter re Get we cast as my father, Now that
Speaker 1: that was that was somebody who meant a great deal
Speaker 1: to me. He was in a movie with my uncle
Speaker 1: Dennis Lawson back in the eighties, a movie called Local Hero.
Speaker 1: And although I didn't know owe him very well and
Speaker 1: met him maybe once or twice, he was sort of
Speaker 1: part of our family law. You know. I was a
Speaker 1: kid when that film came out, and my uncle was
Speaker 1: in that movie, and we we used to visit the
Speaker 1: location where they shot that movie and on our summer holidays,
Speaker 1: and so he was some quite important character in my life.
Speaker 1: And I thought the idea of casting him as my
Speaker 1: as my father in this movie was a beautiful sort
Speaker 1: of full circle in some way. And it was lovely
Speaker 1: and and and worked really really well. There's some really
Speaker 1: nice Luke's and moments between us that really don't need
Speaker 1: any words or dialogue. And that's because of my admiration
Speaker 1: of him and um and and and he was happy
Speaker 1: to be part of the movie, you know, across the board.
Speaker 1: We had really wonderful actors. Valerie Curry, who plays Rita,
Speaker 1: gives an extraordinary brave and mature performance. And Uzu Aduba
Speaker 1: is a is a lovely addition to the movie. Plays
Speaker 1: my secretary. And there's also a nice relation there between us. UM.
Speaker 1: I like your DP a lot. By the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Martin Rue, how did you decide on him? That was
Speaker 1: he part of the project as well already or he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I had three I had sort of a short list
Speaker 1: of three dps. I think by the time we you know,
Speaker 1: we'd explored um crewing up early early on in prep,
Speaker 1: and there was there was two dps who had worked
Speaker 1: with before UM. One I'd worked with twice. One I've
Speaker 1: seen work with an actor who was also directing, which
Speaker 1: I thought was and I like the way he did that.
Speaker 1: And and then Martin and it was really I mean,
Speaker 1: Martin shot a film called Control Anton Corbyn, which is
Speaker 1: released spectacular piece of filmmaking, and and went on to
Speaker 1: shoot The American with Anton. And but it was a
Speaker 1: film and independent film that he made called Martin Brown
Speaker 1: Um starring Michael Caine that clinched it for me. I
Speaker 1: was watching it because because I needed somebody who was
Speaker 1: going to be a partner. I've seen too many first
Speaker 1: time directors fall out with our DP on set, and
Speaker 1: it's really awful when it happens. I didn't want that
Speaker 1: to happen to me, and I can understand how it
Speaker 1: could be frustrating for a DP to be working with
Speaker 1: somebody who's a first time director, who's going to make mistakes,
Speaker 1: who's going to ask for shots that don't make sense.
Speaker 1: You know. I needed somebody who's going to work with
Speaker 1: me on storytelling. And I've got a sense of shots.
Speaker 1: I've been working in front of a camera for twenties
Speaker 1: three years, so it's not like I'm a novice. I know,
Speaker 1: I know my way around there. But I still needed
Speaker 1: somebody who's going to be totally on my side and
Speaker 1: and help me with storytelling. And that's really I wanted
Speaker 1: to be economical in this. I wanted the film not
Speaker 1: to be too cutty. I wanted it to look classical
Speaker 1: and beautiful, and I wanted the acting to be front
Speaker 1: and center as opposed to sort of the filmmaking. I'm
Speaker 1: much more. I'm an actor, so I'm I'm That's sort
Speaker 1: of what thrills me and drives me and with Martin.
Speaker 1: In this film Harry Brown, there's a sequence at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie. It's maybe like h eight or
Speaker 1: nine shots that introduce us to um Mike Kaine's character.
Speaker 1: And there's shots of him. He's waking up in a bed,
Speaker 1: he rolls over. There's another shot of him in bed.
Speaker 1: We see him looking at a clock and round about
Speaker 1: the clock, or there's some pills. And then there's a
Speaker 1: picture of his wife, who's obviously not in the bed
Speaker 1: with him, so we maybe he's an older man. We
Speaker 1: assume maybe she's passed away. And then there's a shot
Speaker 1: from under the bed of his feet coming down on
Speaker 1: the floor, and and a shot of him cooking breakfast
Speaker 1: and eating breakfast, and there was you just knew everything
Speaker 1: immediately without a word of dialogue because of his beautiful photography,
Speaker 1: the framing was so spectacular and and and of course
Speaker 1: Michael Caine such a wonderful actor. You just knew everything
Speaker 1: you needed to know about that character, and you were
Speaker 1: often into the story. And when I watched those the
Speaker 1: opening of that movie, I just knew. I thought, this
Speaker 1: this is who I need. And so that's why we
Speaker 1: chose him, Well, now that you've got one under your belt,
Speaker 1: are you excited to make more movies? Did this one
Speaker 1: scare you off? You mean, what it taught me was
Speaker 1: that it's it's very costly. It is an enormous amount
Speaker 1: of I mean, it's obvious, it takes a long time.
Speaker 1: It takes much longer than than enacting, Joeb. You know,
Speaker 1: I can be in acting in a movie in three
Speaker 1: months to three four months. This was sixteen months of
Speaker 1: my life. But on top of that, it's an extraordinary
Speaker 1: focus really from the word go, from the moment Tom
Speaker 1: said you can direct American Pastoral until my last day
Speaker 1: in the sound mix, was just total focus on the
Speaker 1: story and and every aspect of it. And that gives
Speaker 1: you a great deal of satisfaction. But it's also sort
Speaker 1: of a bit like, you know, brain damage. You're just
Speaker 1: walking around thinking about this one story, and you're trying
Speaker 1: to be trying to be a dad and a husband
Speaker 1: and all other things, and and really your brain is
Speaker 1: just thinking about the story all day. So I realized
Speaker 1: that that's quite costly, and you don't want You couldn't.
Speaker 1: You couldn't. I couldn't imagine, you know, dedicating that amount
Speaker 1: of time and energy to something that I didn't have
Speaker 1: to tell, like I sort of had to tell the
Speaker 1: story of American Pastoral because without those three years when
Speaker 1: I was attached to it as an actor, as it
Speaker 1: started started to slip away, I realized I couldn't let
Speaker 1: it slip away, and it was the story I needed
Speaker 1: to tell. And for fifteen years of wanting to direct,
Speaker 1: I've always said to people, I only want to direct
Speaker 1: because I've got a story that I really need to tell.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened here. So um goodness, I hope
Speaker 1: there is another one, because I really I loved being
Speaker 1: and being that the creative experience was so fulfilling and
Speaker 1: wonderful that I would want to do that again. But
Speaker 1: I can't have to wait till the next story till
Speaker 1: I find it or it finds me, or um, and
Speaker 1: then then I would throw myself at it again. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want to switch gears a little bit here.
Speaker 1: You've been busy, man. You played Jesus this year, which
Speaker 1: I've always I don't even know if I have a
Speaker 1: question here, but I've always sort of wanted to like
Speaker 1: write a book or something where you talk to people
Speaker 1: like willum Dafoe and Jim Caviezel and yourself, like people
Speaker 1: that have taken on that role because it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a heady roll to get into, I imagine. So this
Speaker 1: film was Last Days in the Desert, Rodrigo Garcia chiev All,
Speaker 1: the Bestkie, the great chiev of the Beskie, shooting the film.
Speaker 1: What was that experience like for you? It was really special,
Speaker 1: it was It was a very important film for me.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was important the idea of making
Speaker 1: it before we shot it. The actual shoot was beautiful
Speaker 1: and an incredibly unique experience working with Rodrigo and Chivo
Speaker 1: and the other actors there in the in the desert,
Speaker 1: just southeast of Pia in fact. But it was very
Speaker 1: meaningful somehow. And then and then the actual movie itself,
Speaker 1: I think is quite unique and beautiful. It's got completely
Speaker 1: original pace and tone, and I'm very proud of it.
Speaker 1: I love it very much. Is there something daunting about
Speaker 1: that character to play that? I mean just totally Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's completely like sleepless nights for weeks, I imagine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you realize, of course, most of the things
Speaker 1: that are keeping you up are things that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: normally worry about. Most of the things are how are
Speaker 1: people going to perceive it? How what are people going
Speaker 1: to think? I know, I never worry about those kind
Speaker 1: of things. Usually, I'm much more interested in how am
Speaker 1: I going to play it? And how who is this man?
Speaker 1: And how does he feel to be and how does
Speaker 1: he think when he looks at things? Those are really
Speaker 1: what I normally concentrate on, not not from the outside
Speaker 1: what will it look like or how what people what
Speaker 1: people think? And I believed in the script. I didn't
Speaker 1: believe there was I believe really completely in the script.
Speaker 1: There was nothing controversial about it or I just felt
Speaker 1: like it was a beautiful story that Rodrigo had invented
Speaker 1: about Christ in the desert meeting this family, and really
Speaker 1: it was an exploration of fathers and sons. It was
Speaker 1: it was that's really to me all it was about.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think sometimes Christ is the son of God,
Speaker 1: and other times he's the father of the child, and
Speaker 1: there's a father to the child, and so sometimes he
Speaker 1: feels that the son to that father. It was every
Speaker 1: scene to me felt like that's what we were exploring.
Speaker 1: And so there was something deep and interesting and beneath
Speaker 1: all of these beautifully spare scenes, and with Rodrigo's direction,
Speaker 1: it was a great joy to do. It was very,
Speaker 1: very beautiful, like it was really pure acting, and we
Speaker 1: had time and space to to to to create this
Speaker 1: beautiful movie in a short space of time. In five
Speaker 1: weeks we did it. Um, but goodness me, it's a
Speaker 1: lovely piece of work. It's very it's very different from
Speaker 1: anything I've done before. But yeah, as you your question
Speaker 1: about playing Jesus is quite daunting. And then and then,
Speaker 1: and I started reading books, and I was reading all
Speaker 1: these books that sort of disprove the son of God
Speaker 1: part of Jesus's story and this is probably who he
Speaker 1: really was, and this is probably there was other preachers
Speaker 1: and this and that, and I realized I was as
Speaker 1: reading them, that they were entirely unhelpful because I was
Speaker 1: to be playing Jesus, who is the son of God,
Speaker 1: who is in the desert trying to communicate with his father,
Speaker 1: and as being frustrated that he's not able to do so.
Speaker 1: So um, I put all those books aside, and I
Speaker 1: started thinking about our son, a man who is having
Speaker 1: problems communicating with his dad. And I love and get
Speaker 1: on very well with my father. So however, I am
Speaker 1: a son of a father, and I could I could start,
Speaker 1: I could recognize some of those some of those um
Speaker 1: ideas in there, and once I started focusing on that,
Speaker 1: it became much easier. And then Don Cheetle, Yes, Miles ahead,
Speaker 1: you must have just felt like you were on set
Speaker 1: with Miles Davis. Did every day on that philm I
Speaker 1: keep saying to people, I did this great film with
Speaker 1: Miles Davis. Don cheedle every time, because partly I made
Speaker 1: a film with Don Cheetle, and partly I made a
Speaker 1: film with Miles Davis. I mean, he was so convincing
Speaker 1: down in that role. And also he's he's an actor
Speaker 1: who stays in character between takes and um so I
Speaker 1: was sort of directed by Miles Davis, which isn't easy
Speaker 1: because Miles Davis wasn't quite as nice a guy as
Speaker 1: a lot of my acting notes came from Miles. You know, man,
Speaker 1: what are you doing like this? But it was great fun. Again,
Speaker 1: it was incredibly brave um endeavor by Dawn because he
Speaker 1: has a very short amount of time to shoot the movie,
Speaker 1: in a little amount of money to make it for
Speaker 1: and you know, due to his talents and the talents
Speaker 1: of his Crewer nailed it. I think it's a really
Speaker 1: brilliant film. It's really a movie about music, and it's
Speaker 1: a musical movie. It's quite quite brilliant in its in
Speaker 1: its its flavor. Again, quite unique and also a directorial debut. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so did you guys compare notes? Well, I I did
Speaker 1: it before we shot Miles, before I even know now
Speaker 1: I was going to direct before American Pastoral, so um.
Speaker 1: But I did watch him like a hawk while we
Speaker 1: were working because I've never been directed by the actor before,
Speaker 1: and it was interesting. It was different for me in
Speaker 1: a way. And you know, there's a sort of unwritten
Speaker 1: rule in acting that you never and and people who
Speaker 1: are actors should listen to this, that you never tell
Speaker 1: the other actor what to do. I would never dream
Speaker 1: of it. And it's a big no no. You know,
Speaker 1: you've given you you speak to the actor about what
Speaker 1: you're about, and the other actor gives you what they're
Speaker 1: going to give you, and you have to roll with that,
Speaker 1: you know. But in this situation, and in my situation,
Speaker 1: of course, you do have to tell the other actor
Speaker 1: what to do. It's your job because you're directing and acting,
Speaker 1: and so it's a bit awkward for the first few
Speaker 1: scenes and for you to tell, you know, to give
Speaker 1: ideas to the other actor, but also for the other
Speaker 1: actor to get those ideas from their acting partner is
Speaker 1: a bit a bit strange, So you know, you have
Speaker 1: to be delicate with that to begin with. And then
Speaker 1: what I think in my experience, I hope and certainly
Speaker 1: in my experience with Dawn, was that it becomes a
Speaker 1: very inclusive thing. You know, the actors feel very much
Speaker 1: part of the work that you're creating. I had really
Speaker 1: strong ideas about what I what I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: and Martin ru and I spent many hours and days
Speaker 1: planning scenes, talking about how they should feel, how they
Speaker 1: how we might shoot them. As this scene going to
Speaker 1: be shot in one shot. I wanted to do that
Speaker 1: with some of the scenes. Is this a scene that
Speaker 1: needs a lot of coverage? And we really mapped out
Speaker 1: a sort of pre idea that I would have a
Speaker 1: say a game, I could be over here, say daquotas
Speaker 1: there and we would come up with shots, you know,
Speaker 1: And we had that at that plan, but it was
Speaker 1: always understood that plan was going to change when we
Speaker 1: got on set, and we needed to have the guts
Speaker 1: and the freedom to change it if we wanted, and
Speaker 1: we did, and we would what We would mainly start
Speaker 1: off on the scene just with me and the other
Speaker 1: actors in the room alone. It was quite odd at
Speaker 1: first because we would say the first assistant was say, okay,
Speaker 1: clear the set for the director and the actors, and
Speaker 1: everyone would leave and it would just be me and
Speaker 1: Jennifer and me and Dakota, and I'd be looking over
Speaker 1: my shoulder for the director to I realized it was
Speaker 1: it was me. And so then we would work on
Speaker 1: the scene and because would start saying, look, this is
Speaker 1: what I imagined, this is what my thought was. What
Speaker 1: do you think. We would try it, and then we
Speaker 1: would add to it or change it, or sometimes just
Speaker 1: leave it as it was, and then we would get
Speaker 1: Martin to come in and have a look at it,
Speaker 1: and we would decide on the shots. And but but
Speaker 1: because of that process, I think the actors felt I hope,
Speaker 1: so I felt really involved in the creating of these scenes.
Speaker 1: You know. I I know as an actor, I never
Speaker 1: like to walk on a set and be told what
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I don't like to be shown what the
Speaker 1: stat what the standing has done with the director before
Speaker 1: I've arrived. Well, he was over there, so there's your market.
Speaker 1: He boks over there, And I think, well, you should
Speaker 1: just have got the standing to do the bar then,
Speaker 1: because I'm not a sort of puppet, you know. Um
Speaker 1: so I would never direct like that, and I didn't,
Speaker 1: and I think it makes the actors feel. I love
Speaker 1: it as an as an actor, when you're when you're
Speaker 1: involved in in the creating of a scene, in creatively
Speaker 1: involved in that. Yeah. Uh, you get asked about Star
Speaker 1: Wars all the time, so I apologize upfront, but I
Speaker 1: think this is a different question. You know, You're work
Speaker 1: in those movies is nothing if not immortal, just by
Speaker 1: nature of that enterprise. Obviously, I think the New Lucas
Speaker 1: film and Kathy Kennedy that they're kind of stewards of
Speaker 1: your work now. They are going to the movies they're
Speaker 1: making now, are going to just ensure that this franchise
Speaker 1: continues to live on long after you're gone. Essentially, you're
Speaker 1: Obi Wan Kenobe is going to be edged in stone,
Speaker 1: and I would imagine that part of the artist's goal
Speaker 1: is to have some form of longevity. So do you
Speaker 1: ever think about your working star Wars with that in mind?
Speaker 1: Is that kind of trippy to just know that the
Speaker 1: image you struck in that movie, the performance you gave,
Speaker 1: the role you helped carve out, is going to have
Speaker 1: such a life for so long. I don't spend any
Speaker 1: time thinking about it at all, not really, But I mean,
Speaker 1: it is a peculiar. It is unique in that respect.
Speaker 1: It is a film that keeps getting seen. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I know, and and and usually with each new film
Speaker 1: I think people go back to the old films again.
Speaker 1: It seems like that, I guess. I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't fully understand it. I'm not sure quite how
Speaker 1: George did it or because because it strikes into the
Speaker 1: minds of young kids all over the world all the time,
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's still as big for little kids
Speaker 1: now as it was for me when I was a
Speaker 1: little and that's I don't really understand how he managed
Speaker 1: to do that. It's really part of our fabric somehow
Speaker 1: in a way that other movies aren't. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't begin to understand how he managed to do that.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be part of it. I always
Speaker 1: felt like that I was I was enormously excited to
Speaker 1: be part of them, um, and I'm very happy to
Speaker 1: be in them. I found that I've always been open
Speaker 1: about the process was not easy for me. I didn't
Speaker 1: like the blue screen environment that it became. You know,
Speaker 1: the first the first one we shot had lots of
Speaker 1: sets and and it was and and then the more
Speaker 1: they went on Episode two and three became more and
Speaker 1: more like working in a big blue space or a
Speaker 1: big green space. You know, we'd finished set, we're work
Speaker 1: on one stage and they go, okay, we're in the
Speaker 1: wrong stage, go to stage five, and we'd leave one
Speaker 1: big green empty space to go over onto stage five,
Speaker 1: which was a big blue empty space, you know. And
Speaker 1: it was months of it, and I found that difficult
Speaker 1: As an actor, it's just not I mean, it's much
Speaker 1: easier to be in a set that's the right set
Speaker 1: with actors and who are the right actors. And however,
Speaker 1: it sort of horns the skill. It's another skill. You
Speaker 1: still have to be believable in those films, still have
Speaker 1: to portray a character. And I hope I did Alec
Speaker 1: Guinness proud or just I hope I you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't let him down because I was trying to portray
Speaker 1: him as a young man. And that was an interesting
Speaker 1: experience too to go back to watch lots of Alec
Speaker 1: Guinness's early work, which was thrilling because I came across
Speaker 1: lots of films that I hadn't seen before, one of
Speaker 1: which was called The Card, which I just adore, and
Speaker 1: I got to see his early work and then try
Speaker 1: and bring sort of me, try and bring me and
Speaker 1: the young Alec Guinness together somehow to do what I
Speaker 1: did in those films, and um, you know, I hope
Speaker 1: I did. I hope I did him justice there. I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people would love to see you.
Speaker 1: You've addressed it before. Do like an obi Wan movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here's my pitch, and it looked this is for lucasfilm,
Speaker 1: this is for free Get you and Rodrigo and Chivo
Speaker 1: back together and go back out into the desert. Shoot
Speaker 1: the obi Wan in the desert movie. Very minimal. Maybe
Speaker 1: he brings out a lightsaber to like cook something, and
Speaker 1: then that's the one time you see a light or something.
Speaker 1: It would be just this minimalist Star Wars movie. People
Speaker 1: would not know what hit them. Yeah, that could be trippy,
Speaker 1: That could be cool. All right, I'll speak to my
Speaker 1: people there you go, ok uh, Mulan Rouge fifteen years ago?
Speaker 1: Oh is this? Can you believe that goodness a teen
Speaker 1: years ago this year? Yes, that's right, that's right. No,
Speaker 1: I mean that that talk about feeling in the right
Speaker 1: place at the right time, that was extraordinary. Like working
Speaker 1: on those sets was like being in the Mulin Rouge
Speaker 1: in Paris, sol that we were in Australia. It was
Speaker 1: an extraordinary experience. I was talking about it recently. Was somebody, um,
Speaker 1: just how amazing it is to work with music and
Speaker 1: with and to work with somebody as fantastical and imaginative
Speaker 1: as Basler and his his partners, as Katherine Martin who's
Speaker 1: his designer and production designer and costume designer. It's really
Speaker 1: wonderful and the best films and we worked the work
Speaker 1: on it was phenomenal. We worked on it for months
Speaker 1: before we started shooting. I mean, we were all there
Speaker 1: for it. We did a two week workshop and then
Speaker 1: we went away and then six months later we came back.
Speaker 1: I mean that two week workshop was like working songs
Speaker 1: and movement a bit, and then we presented it like
Speaker 1: a play, reading to all the creative people, but it
Speaker 1: was like a real event. It was like a show,
Speaker 1: you know. And then we all went away. Six months
Speaker 1: later we came back and we started rehearsals, and the
Speaker 1: rehearsals were I think three or four months. We did
Speaker 1: dancing every day, singing every day, um, working on scenes.
Speaker 1: The scenes were totally constantly being rewritten. Work we would
Speaker 1: we would do on scenes would then be incorporated into
Speaker 1: the next draft. So we really felt as actor as
Speaker 1: that we were being involved in the whole process. We
Speaker 1: had long chat you know, discussed with bars about even storyline,
Speaker 1: about what happened with the prince at the end and
Speaker 1: at the duke at the end, and then we started
Speaker 1: to shoot. And by the time we started to shoot,
Speaker 1: it was completely second nature to break into song or
Speaker 1: break into a dance, which is why it's seamless in
Speaker 1: a way. It doesn't have that awkward when we're in
Speaker 1: a song moment a lot of musicals have. It's an
Speaker 1: interesting genre that I think could be explored in more
Speaker 1: creative ways. Here's a film this year, La La End
Speaker 1: that that does it in just a brilliant way. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember at the time. I remember at the time
Speaker 1: that it came out head Big and The Angry Inch
Speaker 1: also came out, and it was a It was a
Speaker 1: musical movie, and I felt very much at the time
Speaker 1: that that was I thought, oh God, that this I
Speaker 1: really felt like musical movies were back. I thought with
Speaker 1: Moon Rosion Hedwig, I thought that this is the start
Speaker 1: of something new, because I felt like Headig really had
Speaker 1: a contemporary It was completely modern musical on film that
Speaker 1: was brilliant um and Ours was big and colorful and
Speaker 1: and and and and enormous, and I felt like it
Speaker 1: was going to spark off a new wave of musical
Speaker 1: which hasn't really happened. And then I wished it would.
Speaker 1: I'd like to try. I'd like to try and do
Speaker 1: I mean, there's the Irish film Once Again. That's that's
Speaker 1: that I think as a that's where we could go
Speaker 1: with it, where where it doesn't have to be huge,
Speaker 1: and they don't have to be numbers. It can just
Speaker 1: be we can incorporate music as part of the storytelling
Speaker 1: organically and chanically and in a contemporary way, and in
Speaker 1: a small way like Once, which is so moving and
Speaker 1: and simple, like there's no explanation for anything. She's you know,
Speaker 1: you can see as she's walking down from the shop
Speaker 1: going back to her flat. You can see people, kids
Speaker 1: in the street looking in the camera and it just
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, you know. I think I'm inspired by that
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So I'd love to be part of
Speaker 1: more musical work on film. I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 1: And then last thing here Train Spotting two. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously huge fan base for that first film. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think I think people are just nervous at them
Speaker 1: at the idea of a of a sequel to the
Speaker 1: film that they love. So what can you tell them
Speaker 1: to assuage any kind of nerves they might have to
Speaker 1: be afraid? I don't know. Working with Danny again, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was amazing to work with Danny again and the
Speaker 1: boys and everyone. It was great to be back. It
Speaker 1: was a sort of very We each talked about it,
Speaker 1: Johnny and you and Bremner, Robert Carlisle. We talked about
Speaker 1: stepping back in their shoes of renting and Spud and
Speaker 1: sick Boy and Begbie. It was sort of a little scary,
Speaker 1: the idea that maybe you wouldn't be able to get
Speaker 1: back in there, or you know, trying to be back
Speaker 1: in the skin of a character you last played twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, before you knew a lot of the things
Speaker 1: you know now do in the business as well, and
Speaker 1: just how how you perform and just your trade and
Speaker 1: your craft and everything that kind of makes you a
Speaker 1: different person. It makes you a different person. And then
Speaker 1: and also you just because of this, because the love
Speaker 1: people have for the film and the love that we
Speaker 1: have for the film, and how important the movie was,
Speaker 1: and in terms of the movie, the movie history, and
Speaker 1: in terms of for all of our careers, it was
Speaker 1: a big, big deal. And we all felt very protective
Speaker 1: over the original film, and so there was a sort
Speaker 1: of trepidation about getting back in there and would we
Speaker 1: be able to do it, and would it would it
Speaker 1: feel right? Would it? But then, of course all of
Speaker 1: those worries somehow fits so beautifully into the minds of
Speaker 1: the characters in the movie that John Hodges so brilliantly
Speaker 1: crafted that it was never an issue once we started
Speaker 1: the first once we all had our first scene done,
Speaker 1: we were all back, you know, and it felt really good.
Speaker 1: It felt really easy. It was like it was like
Speaker 1: meeting an old friend again. Um, where time doesn't really
Speaker 1: you might not have seen each other for ten years,
Speaker 1: but in actually fact, when you start chatting, it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like a day's past. It was like that, and
Speaker 1: it was great to be back on set with Danny,
Speaker 1: who have missed and you know, I loved all the
Speaker 1: work I did with him is some of the most
Speaker 1: important work that I've ever done for me, and so
Speaker 1: I've sort of missed working with him over these years,
Speaker 1: and it felt really good to be back on set
Speaker 1: with him. Awesome. I can't wait to see that. I
Speaker 1: can talk to you about a number of other things
Speaker 1: like beauty and the Beast being part of that and stuff,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to take too much more of
Speaker 1: your time. But do tell me. Have you recorded your
Speaker 1: part for that? We did. We did it. We've done
Speaker 1: it lovely luckily several times. We did it while they
Speaker 1: were shooting the film in London over a year ago,
Speaker 1: and uh, and then of course since they finished the film,
Speaker 1: we've gone back and done it and we do. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm Problumar at the Candelabra, Yes, and so we
Speaker 1: played We did have some real live action on set
Speaker 1: as well as being animated, so we got to record
Speaker 1: the role, acting the role, and then I had some
Speaker 1: musical numbers to record too, which was great. It was
Speaker 1: nice to sing again. That'll be fun. Yeah, well great,
Speaker 1: man Will. Congrats on the movie in good luck with
Speaker 1: it as it goes out into the marketplace American pat Store.
Speaker 1: And thanks for being a guest on my podcast. Man,
Speaker 1: I appreciate my great pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's
Speaker 1: all right. Thanks again for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe
Speaker 1: and check back next week. You've been listening to playback
Speaker 1: at Variety