WEBVTT - Soft Climate Denial Ft. St Andrew 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:10.400 What's, What's? What's I'm Robert Evans. This is it could 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:15.400 happen here the show that asks what's and also other questions, 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.159 um more more more meaningful questions than that about you know, 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.520 things falling apart, fixing them, all that good stuff with 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:27.800 me today as usual Garrison and Chris and as is 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.280 currently unusual, but will be more usual every preceding month 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:36.120 after this one. Our good friend st Andrew. St Andrew 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.440 not quite about but that's fine. How are you doing today, Andrew? 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.640 I'm good, I'm good. You know, it's rainy, it's chill. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.839 It's better than the kind of hot weather we've been 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.639 getting lately. So I'm good. Yeah, it's raining and chill here. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.959 But that's seven months of the year. Uh. I think 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:01.360 there's slightly different uh climates in Portland, Oregon and Trinidad, probably, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.679 I've been told. Um. So we have had you on 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.200 a couple of weeks back to talk about solar Punk, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.520 and we're gonna be bringing you back on about twice 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.280 a month to talk about, um, whatever the hell you 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.800 want to talk about. And so I'm going to now 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.360 hand the episode over to you, um and trust like 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.480 a little lamb that you'll lead me somewhere beautiful and 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:31.279 filled with good forage. Yes, sunshine, rainbows, the promised land. Yeah. Okay, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:36.840 So I think we've all noticed that the environmental this 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:42.959 smoothment kind of sucks jumping into it, has not done 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.840 the things that has not accomplished. Has been around for 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.080 like over half a century or actually really more than that, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:56.360 and you know, where are we know? You know? Um, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.520 of course we do have to confront and acknowledge that, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.440 like there's the sc where oil company has literally suppressed 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.840 a whole bunch of information and you know, co opted 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.160 like a lot of the earlier movements and stuff. But 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.400 we've kind of known for a while now and we 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.480 are still here, so it's like what gives you know? Um, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.960 I think there's kind of an interesting phenomenon that I 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.880 wanted to talk about today, um known as soft climate 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.240 change denial. So are you're familiar with that or what 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.519 you'll think it is? Based on foot impressions? UM, I mean, yeah, 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.160 I've heard the term. I would think it's sort of um, 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.360 I mean a number of different things, including the idea 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.320 that like, well there's nothing we can do, so nothing 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:47.079 should be done, you know, m hmm. Yeah, what what 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.440 what what's your garrison? Yeah, most of my understanding of 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:55.080 the term is like someone like saying they like know, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.919 the climate change is the thing, like they recognize that, 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:04.080 but they are kind of more in denial of what 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.919 solutions can be done to really change anything. That's generation 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.680 understanding of the term. When I see it like online 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.919 or something, Yeah, what what's your Chris? Yeah, I usually 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.280 see it's it's like it's usually in the context of people, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.640 you know, can in the US, there's the whole um, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.640 there's whole political factions whose entire thing is saying, like, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.000 we believe in science, and then they'll go talk about 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.919 like how much they believe in climate change, and then 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:38.200 two seconds later and around they're like signings. Yeah, So 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.000 that that's that's that's my understanding of it, right. Yeah. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:48.000 So according to everyone's favorite source um Wikipedia, soft climate 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.559 change denial is a state of mind acknowledging the existence 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.480 of global women in the abstract what re meaning to 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:59.680 some extent impartial psychological or intellectuals and nihilism, what it's 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.320 really t or impact. And so when I was spoken 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.120 about in my channel in my most recent video where 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.920 I was talking with the different facets of solar punk. 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.600 You know what sola punk is, what it needs, um, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.120 things that probably potentially drag down the solo punk movement, 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.719 and things that people have been using to try to 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.760 drag it down. Because so the punk is kind of 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:26.520 building in popularity, and with anything that builds in popularity, 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.440 there are attempts from all sorts of angles to co 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.200 opt it and to repackage it and to modify it 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.320 and all those things. So I've kind of noticed with 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:40.279 the soula punk phenomenon that there's this effort by people 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.120 who professed to care about the climates and stuff to 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:48.240 try to push it away from more radical directions towards 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:52.880 something more appealing and appeasing to the status cool into 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:57.240 the system um and I mean according to the Wikipedia definition, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.559 you know, it's they call it a state of mind. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.719 I think it's also like an implicit philosophy that undergodes 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.440 like entire groups and entire movements. You know, so like 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.000 for example, obviously you know in affects individuals, where you know, 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:15.760 people will um miscalculated its risks and think that climate 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.920 climate change is just extra storms or something. But then 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.320 they also, like people a really the movements that would 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:30.680 neglect its urgency with just these platitudes and these um 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:37.160 directionless actions that just to like this kind of middling reformism, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.440 um like, they underestimate the extent of social change required 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.520 to like mitigate climate change, so basically don't seek to 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.560 change its out of school, but just to sort of 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.000 tweak it ever so slightly to like capitalism with a 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.400 carbon tax or something. Um. And then of course they're 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.960 people who kind of straddle that that fence or maybe 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.799 small a spectrum between soft climb change nile and hardclim 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:08.800 change nile, where they might overestimate the extent of scientific uncertainty, 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.159 so they might think that, oh, well, you know, um yeah, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.200 club warming is happening, but we don't exactly know how 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.080 much it's going to change the climate or how much 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.279 it's impacting our lives and that kind of thing, so 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.760 they basically tune it into something that's still up for debate, 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:28.680 you know. And A's why I say it kind of 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:33.000 straggles that line between soft line and hardline, because obviously 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:35.920 the hard climb change nihilists they're just like, oh, well, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:37.960 you know, it doesn't exist, or if it does exist, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.400 humans don't closet if you and still course there's nothing 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.760 we can do that kind of thing. Have you all 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.120 had like experiences with soft climb change nil, like and 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:51.200 your own personal organizing? Oh yeah, yeah, I would say 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.640 so I have encountered. Um. I mean it's kind of 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.320 a thing you encounter constantly in American politics because it's 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:04.080 it's really like often times your best option, uh, in 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.680 terms of like it's that or the people who say 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:12.320 that talking about climate change is socialism. Yeah, you know, 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.600 so I was in verminal Studies mature for most of 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.880 college and then I decided not to do it and 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.520 then I got like a minor instead because like one 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.160 class off well, long story, but you know, it was 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:32.680 interesting seeing it there because like you know, there there 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.960 were basically like two possible reactions to learning that. One 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.280 was like people who you know, okay, what one was 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.880 you get incredibly depressed and that's what I did. Or 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.640 and then that's the second one was people would you 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.000 know and these people who like actually you know, you know, 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:49.760 I mean these are rebial studies madis right, Like these 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.680 people have spent a lot of time studying this stuff 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.440 and they kind of like, I don't know this is 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.960 almost like like this kind of intellectual retreat where you 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.880 could see people businesally just like convincing themselves that like 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.960 somehow this would be okay, and they'd like, I don't know, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.600 people would just get like completely obsessed with like electoral 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.320 maps and you're like no, no no, no, no, no, okay, okay, 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.520 if if if we win exactly this number of seats 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.600 in this year, then like we can we can start 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.160 doing carbon credits or like, I don't know, it was 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.000 it was. It's really interesting to watch because it was 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.520 like it was it was I mean, because like I 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.320 think I think that there's there's like there's very there's 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.560 bad faith versions of it, and then I think there's 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.000 also versions of it that are just sort of like 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.040 people genuinely not want to accept, yeah, like the what's 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:36.920 necessary to stop this? And so they're sort of like 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.600 that they can't even really like think about what's necessarily 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.079 because because of how the education system works, and just 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.840 I could go on like long runs about the education system. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.560 It really it really really um it really limits people's 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.480 ability to think outside of like this very very strict 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.760 box of possibilities because you know, so much just left 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.000 out of um for example, history classes, and soone just 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.839 left out of um, really all the subjects. There's this 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.760 very clear ideology that you're expected to come out of 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.080 the education system with. And so even when you reach 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.439 academia and high education and stuff, you're still stuck with 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.400 that mode of thinking. And even as you're presented with 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:29.000 all this new information, because your brain currently like handle 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.640 like the great extent of what climate change is, you know, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.040 it kind of retreats into this sort of simple kind 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.959 of all, we just need to vote, because voting is 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.720 all I know. Voting is a tool to do. Voting 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:49.960 is politics, and politics is voting. That's the extent of it, right. Yeah, 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.800 It's like this weird form of self preservation that people 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.640 need to do and or to kind of like keep 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.079 their keep them from in their mind, you know, like 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.240 spiral like out control, because this is the only thing 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.439 that you know, they have. They need to focus on 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.600 their own life right now, in their own current problems. 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.520 And if they think about this because this like large 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.360 looming threat too much, it just freaks you out right, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.160 and you have in order to in order to just 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.720 keep going on with your life. A lot of people 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.280 like segment off this type of thing in their own 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.200 brain so that you know, manifests in a lot of cases, 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.560 and this kind of soft denial so that you can 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.000 just keep on going. Yeah, yeah, and I see with 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.000 with friends, and I see with the family. You know, 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.439 obviously they'rely handful of people who still, at least in 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.320 my experience, we still deny climate change. But then there's 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.280 like a bigger portion of people whose whole understanding climate 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.120 change is just this or but we just need to 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.240 recycle and we just need to like switch to electric vehicles, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.440 and once we do that, you know, we'll be okay. Um, 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:53.880 which is tweak a couple of things, get some solar 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.320 panels and yeah, you know, the understanding of it has 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:01.559 been completely limited to like this, are you restricted conversation 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:10.360 that is like um, basically cultivated by certain interest groups 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.320 on certain um lobbying groups and that kind of thing. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.400 You know, Yeah, that's only a certain amount of change 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.160 is allowed, and that's what we're allowed to think. So 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.360 that's what we're like shown for examples of in like 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.959 media and pop culture or whatever. Right, So this is 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.920 you know, this is kind of what um, you know, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.480 like all of the YouTubers who got money from Bill Gates. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.800 When Bill Gates wrote his climate book, right, all all 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:36.480 of the things that they were talking about is like, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.640 it's like this kind of stuff because the only way 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.040 from Bill Gates to keep his money well you know, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.959 talking about climate change is to have these kind of 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.880 half fast like solutions that are actually deny the impending 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.120 reality and deny that. No, the only way to actually 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.920 fix it is by taking all his money, um, which 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:58.000 he's not as big a fan of. Yeah, I mean 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.920 have you all seen the video on climate change and 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.920 economy coming? What did you want? Climate change in a nutshell? 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.959 It's like this like that so people can find it, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.920 but people will I think people people know. I think 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:17.079 a lot a lot of people know what it is. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.240 Or you can just search in a nutshell on YouTube. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:24.160 Key you are, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try, k 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:29.360 you are? No, it's ku r g? Was it ku 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.599 r z? I think it's ku r z g E 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:40.559 s A A G T right, it is. It is 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.599 a It is a weird one. But what what what 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.360 are you talking about? The can you fix climate change? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.520 Where the whole thesis is basically vote with your ballots 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.440 and vote with your wallet. Yeah, that's the only thing 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.640 that you're really allowed, right. Yeah, And I believe this 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.160 is one of the videos spots they put this, um 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.360 yeah they did. It was and then they had this 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.600 whole line about some people think we need to change 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.880 like our systems from climate or from from capitalism, but 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.960 we're not so sure about that. We don't know the answer. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.880 So it's just like shrug towards all system. It's from 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.720 with the system. But they basically gave it no attention, 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.880 you know. But their channel is literally about like quite 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.040 deep into research about things. So it's very obvious that 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.199 if they spent no time like doing any kind of 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.280 research into like why people have the system and critique that, 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.760 obviously Bilkie It's hand is very deep in their pockets, 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.119 you know, because I believe that I believe the researchers 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.000 actually kind of know that, but they're not. They just 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.839 can't say you're not allowed to. Yeah, And I mean like, yeah, 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.200 I think they're making the bargain a lot of people 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.040 make where they're like, Okay, well, if we can push 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.680 for you know, the immediate necessary changes, we can worry 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.160 about you know, stuff like that later on. It's it's 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.040 just important to get something done. Um, and so we'll 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.959 compromise and will not will not call for what we 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.280 know is actually necessary to deal with the problem. We'll 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.600 just we'll just go with a half measure because at 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.760 least it's something we've got to do something now, right. 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:12.480 The thing that's always been very grim about that to 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.760 me is like you look about how how that plays out, right, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.120 and it's always like, well, okay, so our our half 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.080 measure is gonna be we're gonna we're gonna just like 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.240 put put put a monetary value on indigenous forests so 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.840 that governments can like steal them and get paid for 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.080 taking the land. And it's never stuff like why don't 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:37.160 we like make more marshes, which is you know, if 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.280 if you're gonna talk about stuff that like could actually 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.160 be done, right, it's like, okay, well, but what do 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.320 re marshing do we want? Like that's that that stuff 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.640 like is easy and doesn't need you know, you don't 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.880 literally have to overthrow capitalism to get people to like 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.120 restore marshes. But it never happens because this that's you know, 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.240 the whole basis of the sort of soft anihilism stuff 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.040 is not actually you know, it's not actually the type 0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.640 of self climate change. They just want to make money 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:06.960 and it's extremely grim. Yeah. Yeah, there's this video that 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.800 the storyteller was this YouTuber UM he did recently on 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:17.200 co opting movements, and he was explaining that, Um, with 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.920 the March in Washington right during the Civil Rights movement. Um, 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:25.280 that was an organic movement that you know, the people 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:30.120 had come up with, right, but obviously a mass movement. 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.600 The FBI isn't going to just sit back and let 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.120 that happen, right, so they brought in these leaders. Um 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.840 they're called the Big Six, and um, the storyteller was 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:47.120 explaining that basically they were paid to co opt the march, 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.680 to basically become its figureheads and its leaders. They hadn't 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.360 organized it themselves, but they came on afterwards and became 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.640 the leaders in the march and read the speeches that 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.280 they were supposed to read in that kind of thing. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.640 And so that sort of mass movement was basically be 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.960 found like that. I mean, obviously reforms were made and 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.080 you know, Civil Rights Act was passed, But then you know, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.800 after all that happened and MLK got disillusioned by the 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.840 system as a whole. And wanted to start pushing even 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:26.680 harder against capitalism and whatnot. That's when oh, well, coincidentally, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:32.720 you gotta pullet you know. So, I think it's interesting 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:38.040 that these movements they're able, they're they're comfortable with these 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.440 movements up to a certain point, um, and comfortable these 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.600 leaders going these certain directions at to a certain point. 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.800 But then when you actually start posing a threat to 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.720 the stat of school, that's when you know, you become 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.200 a problem in like a major way. Not to say 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.720 that okay, it wasn't a threat to the stat of school, 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.720 but just to say that, you know, um, there was. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:07.320 They have certain limits that they don't want people across. Yeah, capitalism. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.840 One of the things that's that makes it such a 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.920 robust system in terms of its ability to to not 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.840 get overthrown or destroyed is that, up to a certain point, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.920 it loves dissent. It loves anti capitalism because you can 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.040 market that very easily. Like there's a lot of money 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.720 in in in anti capitalism. There's a lot of money 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.760 and being critical of the system. It's just when you 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:35.800 hit a certain point, um, then it then it becomes 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:37.840 you know, the c i A or the FBI or 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:44.560 some person who's been um convinced to shoot use problem 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.080 like it. There's a there's a point at which, uh, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.840 that's no longer accepted, but quite a bit of criticism 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.879 and even like agitation to change or end the system 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.440 can be accepted because it's monetize herbal and speaking of that, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:05.400 you of what time it is time for a serious 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.960 Absolutely is oh boy, time for an ad or or 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:15.000 that's the CIA at the door. We won't know until 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:28.120 we come back from break. Ah, we're back. It wasn't 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:34.199 the CIA this time. Good news, guys, thankfully. I mean 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.119 the fact that they flew all the way down just 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.879 to meet me. I'm on it, honestly. Oh, I mean 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:48.560 they've come to trend a dad for less. Oh that's true. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.280 But like we were seeing, right, there's a school issue 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.159 of these movements being able to go in a sitting direction, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.119 but only up to a sitting point. Um. I think 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.640 it's something that Peter Gallus also talks about in how 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.200 non violence protects the state, in the sense of, you know, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:12.720 these people are able to once they get a certain 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.400 level of attention, all of a sudden, you know, you're 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.840 invited to speak of these events, and you're invited to 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:24.600 go this place and that, and you basically get consumed 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:31.280 into the workshop machine, the angio machine, and the climate 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.240 conference machine kind of things. So you end up with 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:38.280 all these figures, these organizers, these activists who go from 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.880 like generally trying to organize their communities and their spaces, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.160 and then before you know what they're like at such 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.480 and such conference because well, they think it's an opportunity 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.840 to like actually make like a bigger change. But in reality, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.639 you know, they just there too be defound. You know, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.280 like for example, who mainly comes to mind, it's like 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.880 Greater Thunberg. I mean I haven't looked at deeply into 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:06.720 her past or anything. Um. I know they are certain 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:11.040 right wingers who are very obsessed with her, but I 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.200 know that she recently said that she's kind of done 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:20.760 with politicians. Um. Because when you think of how she 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.280 basically came up, you know, right exactly, and think what 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.840 how she basically came up? It was like she is 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.040 talking at these events, and you know, people are in 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.000 fighting into things because you know, look at look at 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.800 this cute little google um yelling about climate change, right, 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:42.800 and she basically becomes this spectacle you know, and that 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:48.680 spectacle is entertained up to the point people make big 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.159 events out of her, you know, like breaking down in 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:54.200 front of these politicians and stuff, and you know what, 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.520 they just go right back to normal. UM. I think 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.320 it was copy was last week or the week before 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:08.800 UM and representatives from representative I think the Prime Minister 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.920 of Barbados was there and she had this, you know, 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.239 a great speech about how the global nothings do more 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.680 for you know, these countries in Global South because you 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.640 know they have responsibility. That kind of thing. Cool UM. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:27.200 But at the same time, you know there's like developments 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.640 going on Barbados too, you know, basically bring in more 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.280 tourists and to bring in more UM and like you know, 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.200 resorts building and that kind of thing that basically add 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:43.680 to the UM emissions and adds the UM negative impact 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.800 in the environment. You know, same thing with like Tat's government, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:51.200 you know, like the representative that went to including the 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.760 Prime minister, and you know they're all about things changing 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.439 and you know, the climate movement UM and the climate 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.280 change being real and actions need to be taken. And 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.960 then like this didn't make it in like like mainstream 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.240 news of course, but in local news. Basically right after 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.280 primmes of trying to vehicle Dr Keith Rowley, he went 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:17.320 and met up with like Shell. Yeah, like representatives at 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.520 Shell to like basically bring the country and the company 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.159 closer together, you know, um, because you know you're not 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.680 is reliant and oil and that kind of thing. So 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:33.280 obviously these sort of leaders and these sorts of movements, 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.160 they only go up to a certain point. And even then, 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:41.720 so much of it is just this performance. Yeah, this 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:47.399 UM act. Basically I'll be I'm putting together a thing 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:51.879 on copies six right now, UM because I think it 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:55.560 actually it does demonstrate a lot of the soft denial 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.680 stuff that you're talking about. Like the biggest thing to 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:00.800 come out of cop twenties X in terms of like 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.800 actual deals is just uh progress on carbon markets and 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.000 carbon offset credits. That's there. That's really the only thing 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:12.399 we actually got. Um And they say red but not 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:14.480 not like us, but like you know, the people in charge, 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:18.199 they they got this and and the the quote they 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:22.439 gave was that the being able to buy carbon offset credits, 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.879 meaning that like you don't actually make emissions differences, so 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.760 they said, you you buy pretend emissions differences from other 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.560 countries that actually did make changes, Um, so that you 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.359 don't get penalized. So that's it's buying the credits far 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.480 but they said, they said, buying the credits can potentially 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.560 unlock trillions of dollars for protecting trees, expanding renewable energy, 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:47.520 and other projects the combat climate change. It's it's the 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:53.280 fuckers like, don't climate credits. It's like, um, it's the 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.440 same as saying like hail Mary's because you you send 0:23:56.520 --> 0:23:58.520 and you went to your priest and confessed. It's like 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.639 I've I've I've done bad things to the environment. Tell me, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:03.760 like how many times I need to go through this 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:06.560 ritual in order to in order to cleanse myself of 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:11.679 having the atmosphere you know exactly. I think it's bleaker 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.080 than that in a lot of ways, Like it's it's it's, it's, it's, 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.520 it's it's really it's the climate version of like the 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:21.760 World Wildlife Fund having death squads. Okay, now, Chris, you 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.080 are a very anti death squad, and I think we 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.720 need to deal with that at some point because hashtag 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:32.040 not all death squads. Yes, my mother will need to 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:34.640 be able to account for by strong anti death squad stance. 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:37.679 This is a yeah, you say that now, but you're 0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:39.639 gonna get a death squad to fight the death squads, 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:44.800 And then where are you begin to be ce death 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:50.919 squadsption get they get a death squad to fight your 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:52.840 death squad, and then it's just like the constant each 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:54.600