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Speaker 1: What's, What's? What's I'm Robert Evans. This is it could

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Speaker 1: happen here the show that asks what's and also other questions,

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Speaker 1: um more more more meaningful questions than that about you know,

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Speaker 1: things falling apart, fixing them, all that good stuff with

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Speaker 1: me today as usual Garrison and Chris and as is

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Speaker 1: currently unusual, but will be more usual every preceding month

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Speaker 1: after this one. Our good friend st Andrew. St Andrew

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Speaker 1: not quite about but that's fine. How are you doing today, Andrew?

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Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good. You know, it's rainy, it's chill.

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Speaker 1: It's better than the kind of hot weather we've been

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Speaker 1: getting lately. So I'm good. Yeah, it's raining and chill here.

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Speaker 1: But that's seven months of the year. Uh. I think

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Speaker 1: there's slightly different uh climates in Portland, Oregon and Trinidad, probably,

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Speaker 1: I've been told. Um. So we have had you on

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks back to talk about solar Punk,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna be bringing you back on about twice

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Speaker 1: a month to talk about, um, whatever the hell you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about. And so I'm going to now

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Speaker 1: hand the episode over to you, um and trust like

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Speaker 1: a little lamb that you'll lead me somewhere beautiful and

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Speaker 1: filled with good forage. Yes, sunshine, rainbows, the promised land. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I think we've all noticed that the environmental this

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Speaker 1: smoothment kind of sucks jumping into it, has not done

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Speaker 1: the things that has not accomplished. Has been around for

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Speaker 1: like over half a century or actually really more than that,

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Speaker 1: and you know, where are we know? You know? Um,

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Speaker 1: of course we do have to confront and acknowledge that,

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Speaker 1: like there's the sc where oil company has literally suppressed

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of information and you know, co opted

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the earlier movements and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: we've kind of known for a while now and we

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Speaker 1: are still here, so it's like what gives you know? Um,

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Speaker 1: I think there's kind of an interesting phenomenon that I

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about today, um known as soft climate

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Speaker 1: change denial. So are you're familiar with that or what

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Speaker 1: you'll think it is? Based on foot impressions? UM, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've heard the term. I would think it's sort of um,

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Speaker 1: I mean a number of different things, including the idea

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Speaker 1: that like, well there's nothing we can do, so nothing

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Speaker 1: should be done, you know, m hmm. Yeah, what what

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Speaker 1: what what's your garrison? Yeah, most of my understanding of

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Speaker 1: the term is like someone like saying they like know,

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Speaker 1: the climate change is the thing, like they recognize that,

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Speaker 1: but they are kind of more in denial of what

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Speaker 1: solutions can be done to really change anything. That's generation

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Speaker 1: understanding of the term. When I see it like online

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Speaker 1: or something, Yeah, what what's your Chris? Yeah, I usually

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Speaker 1: see it's it's like it's usually in the context of people,

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Speaker 1: you know, can in the US, there's the whole um,

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Speaker 1: there's whole political factions whose entire thing is saying, like,

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Speaker 1: we believe in science, and then they'll go talk about

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Speaker 1: like how much they believe in climate change, and then

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Speaker 1: two seconds later and around they're like signings. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: that that's that's that's my understanding of it, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So according to everyone's favorite source um Wikipedia, soft climate

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Speaker 1: change denial is a state of mind acknowledging the existence

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Speaker 1: of global women in the abstract what re meaning to

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Speaker 1: some extent impartial psychological or intellectuals and nihilism, what it's

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Speaker 1: really t or impact. And so when I was spoken

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Speaker 1: about in my channel in my most recent video where

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Speaker 1: I was talking with the different facets of solar punk.

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Speaker 1: You know what sola punk is, what it needs, um,

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Speaker 1: things that probably potentially drag down the solo punk movement,

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Speaker 1: and things that people have been using to try to

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Speaker 1: drag it down. Because so the punk is kind of

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Speaker 1: building in popularity, and with anything that builds in popularity,

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Speaker 1: there are attempts from all sorts of angles to co

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Speaker 1: opt it and to repackage it and to modify it

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Speaker 1: and all those things. So I've kind of noticed with

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Speaker 1: the soula punk phenomenon that there's this effort by people

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Speaker 1: who professed to care about the climates and stuff to

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Speaker 1: try to push it away from more radical directions towards

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Speaker 1: something more appealing and appeasing to the status cool into

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Speaker 1: the system um and I mean according to the Wikipedia definition,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's they call it a state of mind.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also like an implicit philosophy that undergodes

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Speaker 1: like entire groups and entire movements. You know, so like

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Speaker 1: for example, obviously you know in affects individuals, where you know,

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Speaker 1: people will um miscalculated its risks and think that climate

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Speaker 1: climate change is just extra storms or something. But then

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Speaker 1: they also, like people a really the movements that would

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Speaker 1: neglect its urgency with just these platitudes and these um

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Speaker 1: directionless actions that just to like this kind of middling reformism,

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Speaker 1: um like, they underestimate the extent of social change required

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Speaker 1: to like mitigate climate change, so basically don't seek to

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Speaker 1: change its out of school, but just to sort of

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Speaker 1: tweak it ever so slightly to like capitalism with a

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Speaker 1: carbon tax or something. Um. And then of course they're

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Speaker 1: people who kind of straddle that that fence or maybe

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Speaker 1: small a spectrum between soft climb change nile and hardclim

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Speaker 1: change nile, where they might overestimate the extent of scientific uncertainty,

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Speaker 1: so they might think that, oh, well, you know, um yeah,

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Speaker 1: club warming is happening, but we don't exactly know how

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Speaker 1: much it's going to change the climate or how much

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Speaker 1: it's impacting our lives and that kind of thing, so

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Speaker 1: they basically tune it into something that's still up for debate,

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Speaker 1: you know. And A's why I say it kind of

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Speaker 1: straggles that line between soft line and hardline, because obviously

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Speaker 1: the hard climb change nihilists they're just like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't exist, or if it does exist,

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Speaker 1: humans don't closet if you and still course there's nothing

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Speaker 1: we can do that kind of thing. Have you all

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Speaker 1: had like experiences with soft climb change nil, like and

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Speaker 1: your own personal organizing? Oh yeah, yeah, I would say

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Speaker 1: so I have encountered. Um. I mean it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a thing you encounter constantly in American politics because it's

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Speaker 1: it's really like often times your best option, uh, in

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Speaker 1: terms of like it's that or the people who say

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Speaker 1: that talking about climate change is socialism. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: so I was in verminal Studies mature for most of

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Speaker 1: college and then I decided not to do it and

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Speaker 1: then I got like a minor instead because like one

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Speaker 1: class off well, long story, but you know, it was

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Speaker 1: interesting seeing it there because like you know, there there

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Speaker 1: were basically like two possible reactions to learning that. One

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Speaker 1: was like people who you know, okay, what one was

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Speaker 1: you get incredibly depressed and that's what I did. Or

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Speaker 1: and then that's the second one was people would you

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Speaker 1: know and these people who like actually you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean these are rebial studies madis right, Like these

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Speaker 1: people have spent a lot of time studying this stuff

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Speaker 1: and they kind of like, I don't know this is

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Speaker 1: almost like like this kind of intellectual retreat where you

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Speaker 1: could see people businesally just like convincing themselves that like

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Speaker 1: somehow this would be okay, and they'd like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: people would just get like completely obsessed with like electoral

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Speaker 1: maps and you're like no, no no, no, no, no, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: if if if we win exactly this number of seats

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Speaker 1: in this year, then like we can we can start

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Speaker 1: doing carbon credits or like, I don't know, it was

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Speaker 1: it was. It's really interesting to watch because it was

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Speaker 1: like it was it was I mean, because like I

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Speaker 1: think I think that there's there's like there's very there's

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Speaker 1: bad faith versions of it, and then I think there's

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Speaker 1: also versions of it that are just sort of like

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Speaker 1: people genuinely not want to accept, yeah, like the what's

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Speaker 1: necessary to stop this? And so they're sort of like

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Speaker 1: that they can't even really like think about what's necessarily

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Speaker 1: because because of how the education system works, and just

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Speaker 1: I could go on like long runs about the education system.

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Speaker 1: It really it really really um it really limits people's

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Speaker 1: ability to think outside of like this very very strict

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Speaker 1: box of possibilities because you know, so much just left

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Speaker 1: out of um for example, history classes, and soone just

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Speaker 1: left out of um, really all the subjects. There's this

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Speaker 1: very clear ideology that you're expected to come out of

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Speaker 1: the education system with. And so even when you reach

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Speaker 1: academia and high education and stuff, you're still stuck with

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Speaker 1: that mode of thinking. And even as you're presented with

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Speaker 1: all this new information, because your brain currently like handle

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Speaker 1: like the great extent of what climate change is, you know,

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Speaker 1: it kind of retreats into this sort of simple kind

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Speaker 1: of all, we just need to vote, because voting is

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Speaker 1: all I know. Voting is a tool to do. Voting

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Speaker 1: is politics, and politics is voting. That's the extent of it, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It's like this weird form of self preservation that people

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Speaker 1: need to do and or to kind of like keep

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Speaker 1: their keep them from in their mind, you know, like

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Speaker 1: spiral like out control, because this is the only thing

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Speaker 1: that you know, they have. They need to focus on

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Speaker 1: their own life right now, in their own current problems.

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Speaker 1: And if they think about this because this like large

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Speaker 1: looming threat too much, it just freaks you out right,

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Speaker 1: and you have in order to in order to just

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Speaker 1: keep going on with your life. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: like segment off this type of thing in their own

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Speaker 1: brain so that you know, manifests in a lot of cases,

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Speaker 1: and this kind of soft denial so that you can

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Speaker 1: just keep on going. Yeah, yeah, and I see with

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Speaker 1: with friends, and I see with the family. You know,

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Speaker 1: obviously they'rely handful of people who still, at least in

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Speaker 1: my experience, we still deny climate change. But then there's

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Speaker 1: like a bigger portion of people whose whole understanding climate

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Speaker 1: change is just this or but we just need to

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Speaker 1: recycle and we just need to like switch to electric vehicles,

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Speaker 1: and once we do that, you know, we'll be okay. Um,

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Speaker 1: which is tweak a couple of things, get some solar

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Speaker 1: panels and yeah, you know, the understanding of it has

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Speaker 1: been completely limited to like this, are you restricted conversation

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Speaker 1: that is like um, basically cultivated by certain interest groups

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Speaker 1: on certain um lobbying groups and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, that's only a certain amount of change

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Speaker 1: is allowed, and that's what we're allowed to think. So

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Speaker 1: that's what we're like shown for examples of in like

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Speaker 1: media and pop culture or whatever. Right, So this is

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Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of what um, you know,

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Speaker 1: like all of the YouTubers who got money from Bill Gates.

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Speaker 1: When Bill Gates wrote his climate book, right, all all

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Speaker 1: of the things that they were talking about is like,

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Speaker 1: it's like this kind of stuff because the only way

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Speaker 1: from Bill Gates to keep his money well you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about climate change is to have these kind of

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Speaker 1: half fast like solutions that are actually deny the impending

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Speaker 1: reality and deny that. No, the only way to actually

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Speaker 1: fix it is by taking all his money, um, which

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Speaker 1: he's not as big a fan of. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: have you all seen the video on climate change and

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Speaker 1: economy coming? What did you want? Climate change in a nutshell?

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Speaker 1: It's like this like that so people can find it,

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Speaker 1: but people will I think people people know. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot a lot of people know what it is.

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Speaker 1: Or you can just search in a nutshell on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Key you are, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try, k

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Speaker 1: you are? No, it's ku r g? Was it ku

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Speaker 1: r z? I think it's ku r z g E

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Speaker 1: s A A G T right, it is. It is

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Speaker 1: a It is a weird one. But what what what

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Speaker 1: are you talking about? The can you fix climate change? Yeah? Yeah, yeah?

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Speaker 1: Where the whole thesis is basically vote with your ballots

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Speaker 1: and vote with your wallet. Yeah, that's the only thing

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Speaker 1: that you're really allowed, right. Yeah, And I believe this

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Speaker 1: is one of the videos spots they put this, um

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Speaker 1: yeah they did. It was and then they had this

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Speaker 1: whole line about some people think we need to change

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Speaker 1: like our systems from climate or from from capitalism, but

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Speaker 1: we're not so sure about that. We don't know the answer.

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Speaker 1: So it's just like shrug towards all system. It's from

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Speaker 1: with the system. But they basically gave it no attention,

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Speaker 1: you know. But their channel is literally about like quite

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Speaker 1: deep into research about things. So it's very obvious that

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Speaker 1: if they spent no time like doing any kind of

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Speaker 1: research into like why people have the system and critique that,

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Speaker 1: obviously Bilkie It's hand is very deep in their pockets,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I believe that I believe the researchers

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Speaker 1: actually kind of know that, but they're not. They just

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Speaker 1: can't say you're not allowed to. Yeah, And I mean like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think they're making the bargain a lot of people

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Speaker 1: make where they're like, Okay, well, if we can push

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Speaker 1: for you know, the immediate necessary changes, we can worry

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Speaker 1: about you know, stuff like that later on. It's it's

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Speaker 1: just important to get something done. Um, and so we'll

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Speaker 1: compromise and will not will not call for what we

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Speaker 1: know is actually necessary to deal with the problem. We'll

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Speaker 1: just we'll just go with a half measure because at

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Speaker 1: least it's something we've got to do something now, right.

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Speaker 1: The thing that's always been very grim about that to

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Speaker 1: me is like you look about how how that plays out, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's always like, well, okay, so our our half

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Speaker 1: measure is gonna be we're gonna we're gonna just like

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Speaker 1: put put put a monetary value on indigenous forests so

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Speaker 1: that governments can like steal them and get paid for

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Speaker 1: taking the land. And it's never stuff like why don't

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Speaker 1: we like make more marshes, which is you know, if

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna talk about stuff that like could actually

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Speaker 1: be done, right, it's like, okay, well, but what do

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Speaker 1: re marshing do we want? Like that's that that stuff

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Speaker 1: like is easy and doesn't need you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: literally have to overthrow capitalism to get people to like

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Speaker 1: restore marshes. But it never happens because this that's you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole basis of the sort of soft anihilism stuff

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Speaker 1: is not actually you know, it's not actually the type

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Speaker 1: of self climate change. They just want to make money

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Speaker 1: and it's extremely grim. Yeah. Yeah, there's this video that

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Speaker 1: the storyteller was this YouTuber UM he did recently on

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Speaker 1: co opting movements, and he was explaining that, Um, with

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Speaker 1: the March in Washington right during the Civil Rights movement. Um,

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Speaker 1: that was an organic movement that you know, the people

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Speaker 1: had come up with, right, but obviously a mass movement.

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Speaker 1: The FBI isn't going to just sit back and let

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Speaker 1: that happen, right, so they brought in these leaders. Um

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Speaker 1: they're called the Big Six, and um, the storyteller was

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Speaker 1: explaining that basically they were paid to co opt the march,

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Speaker 1: to basically become its figureheads and its leaders. They hadn't

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Speaker 1: organized it themselves, but they came on afterwards and became

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Speaker 1: the leaders in the march and read the speeches that

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Speaker 1: they were supposed to read in that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so that sort of mass movement was basically be

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Speaker 1: found like that. I mean, obviously reforms were made and

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Speaker 1: you know, Civil Rights Act was passed, But then you know,

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Speaker 1: after all that happened and MLK got disillusioned by the

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Speaker 1: system as a whole. And wanted to start pushing even

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Speaker 1: harder against capitalism and whatnot. That's when oh, well, coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: you gotta pullet you know. So, I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that these movements they're able, they're they're comfortable with these

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Speaker 1: movements up to a certain point, um, and comfortable these

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Speaker 1: leaders going these certain directions at to a certain point.

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Speaker 1: But then when you actually start posing a threat to

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Speaker 1: the stat of school, that's when you know, you become

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Speaker 1: a problem in like a major way. Not to say

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Speaker 1: that okay, it wasn't a threat to the stat of school,

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Speaker 1: but just to say that, you know, um, there was.

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Speaker 1: They have certain limits that they don't want people across. Yeah, capitalism.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's that makes it such a

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Speaker 1: robust system in terms of its ability to to not

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Speaker 1: get overthrown or destroyed is that, up to a certain point,

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Speaker 1: it loves dissent. It loves anti capitalism because you can

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Speaker 1: market that very easily. Like there's a lot of money

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Speaker 1: in in in anti capitalism. There's a lot of money

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Speaker 1: and being critical of the system. It's just when you

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Speaker 1: hit a certain point, um, then it then it becomes

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Speaker 1: you know, the c i A or the FBI or

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Speaker 1: some person who's been um convinced to shoot use problem

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Speaker 1: like it. There's a there's a point at which, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's no longer accepted, but quite a bit of criticism

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Speaker 1: and even like agitation to change or end the system

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Speaker 1: can be accepted because it's monetize herbal and speaking of that,

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Speaker 1: you of what time it is time for a serious

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Speaker 1: Absolutely is oh boy, time for an ad or or

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Speaker 1: that's the CIA at the door. We won't know until

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Speaker 1: we come back from break. Ah, we're back. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the CIA this time. Good news, guys, thankfully. I mean

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Speaker 1: the fact that they flew all the way down just

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Speaker 1: to meet me. I'm on it, honestly. Oh, I mean

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Speaker 1: they've come to trend a dad for less. Oh that's true. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: But like we were seeing, right, there's a school issue

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Speaker 1: of these movements being able to go in a sitting direction,

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Speaker 1: but only up to a sitting point. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: it's something that Peter Gallus also talks about in how

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Speaker 1: non violence protects the state, in the sense of, you know,

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Speaker 1: these people are able to once they get a certain

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Speaker 1: level of attention, all of a sudden, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: invited to speak of these events, and you're invited to

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Speaker 1: go this place and that, and you basically get consumed

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Speaker 1: into the workshop machine, the angio machine, and the climate

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Speaker 1: conference machine kind of things. So you end up with

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Speaker 1: all these figures, these organizers, these activists who go from

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Speaker 1: like generally trying to organize their communities and their spaces,

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Speaker 1: and then before you know what they're like at such

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Speaker 1: and such conference because well, they think it's an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to like actually make like a bigger change. But in reality,

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Speaker 1: you know, they just there too be defound. You know,

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Speaker 1: like for example, who mainly comes to mind, it's like

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Speaker 1: Greater Thunberg. I mean I haven't looked at deeply into

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Speaker 1: her past or anything. Um. I know they are certain

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Speaker 1: right wingers who are very obsessed with her, but I

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Speaker 1: know that she recently said that she's kind of done

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Speaker 1: with politicians. Um. Because when you think of how she

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Speaker 1: basically came up, you know, right exactly, and think what

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Speaker 1: how she basically came up? It was like she is

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Speaker 1: talking at these events, and you know, people are in

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Speaker 1: fighting into things because you know, look at look at

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Speaker 1: this cute little google um yelling about climate change, right,

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Speaker 1: and she basically becomes this spectacle you know, and that

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Speaker 1: spectacle is entertained up to the point people make big

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Speaker 1: events out of her, you know, like breaking down in

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Speaker 1: front of these politicians and stuff, and you know what,

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Speaker 1: they just go right back to normal. UM. I think

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Speaker 1: it was copy was last week or the week before

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Speaker 1: UM and representatives from representative I think the Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: of Barbados was there and she had this, you know,

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Speaker 1: a great speech about how the global nothings do more

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Speaker 1: for you know, these countries in Global South because you

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Speaker 1: know they have responsibility. That kind of thing. Cool UM.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know there's like developments

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Speaker 1: going on Barbados too, you know, basically bring in more

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Speaker 1: tourists and to bring in more UM and like you know,

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Speaker 1: resorts building and that kind of thing that basically add

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Speaker 1: to the UM emissions and adds the UM negative impact

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Speaker 1: in the environment. You know, same thing with like Tat's government,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the representative that went to including the

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Speaker 1: Prime minister, and you know they're all about things changing

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Speaker 1: and you know, the climate movement UM and the climate

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Speaker 1: change being real and actions need to be taken. And

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Speaker 1: then like this didn't make it in like like mainstream

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Speaker 1: news of course, but in local news. Basically right after

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Speaker 1: primmes of trying to vehicle Dr Keith Rowley, he went

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Speaker 1: and met up with like Shell. Yeah, like representatives at

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Speaker 1: Shell to like basically bring the country and the company

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Speaker 1: closer together, you know, um, because you know you're not

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Speaker 1: is reliant and oil and that kind of thing. So

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Speaker 1: obviously these sort of leaders and these sorts of movements,

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Speaker 1: they only go up to a certain point. And even then,

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Speaker 1: so much of it is just this performance. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: UM act. Basically I'll be I'm putting together a thing

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Speaker 1: on copies six right now, UM because I think it

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Speaker 1: actually it does demonstrate a lot of the soft denial

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Speaker 1: stuff that you're talking about. Like the biggest thing to

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Speaker 1: come out of cop twenties X in terms of like

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Speaker 1: actual deals is just uh progress on carbon markets and

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Speaker 1: carbon offset credits. That's there. That's really the only thing

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Speaker 1: we actually got. Um And they say red but not

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Speaker 1: not like us, but like you know, the people in charge,

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Speaker 1: they they got this and and the the quote they

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Speaker 1: gave was that the being able to buy carbon offset credits,

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Speaker 1: meaning that like you don't actually make emissions differences, so

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Speaker 1: they said, you you buy pretend emissions differences from other

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Speaker 1: countries that actually did make changes, Um, so that you

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Speaker 1: don't get penalized. So that's it's buying the credits far

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Speaker 1: but they said, they said, buying the credits can potentially

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Speaker 1: unlock trillions of dollars for protecting trees, expanding renewable energy,

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Speaker 1: and other projects the combat climate change. It's it's the

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Speaker 1: fuckers like, don't climate credits. It's like, um, it's the

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Speaker 1: same as saying like hail Mary's because you you send

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Speaker 1: and you went to your priest and confessed. It's like

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Speaker 1: I've I've I've done bad things to the environment. Tell me,

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Speaker 1: like how many times I need to go through this

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Speaker 1: ritual in order to in order to cleanse myself of

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Speaker 1: having the atmosphere you know exactly. I think it's bleaker

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Speaker 1: than that in a lot of ways, Like it's it's it's, it's, it's,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really it's the climate version of like the

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Speaker 1: World Wildlife Fund having death squads. Okay, now, Chris, you

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Speaker 1: are a very anti death squad, and I think we

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Speaker 1: need to deal with that at some point because hashtag

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Speaker 1: not all death squads. Yes, my mother will need to

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Speaker 1: be able to account for by strong anti death squad stance.

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Speaker 1: This is a yeah, you say that now, but you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get a death squad to fight the death squads,

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Speaker 1: And then where are you begin to be ce death

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Speaker 1: squadsption get they get a death squad to fight your

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Speaker 1: death squad, and then it's just like the constant each

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Speaker 1: other outs. Then you have to get another death squad,

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Speaker 1: and then see Marxist Leninism. Yeah, it's a number of

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Speaker 1: other things too, to be fair to Marxism. Another thing

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Speaker 1: that might make you kind of question the integrity of

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Speaker 1: CUT is that there were more delegates at Cup six

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Speaker 1: from fossil field companies than there were from any individual nation.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. But then right, that's like another thing, right,

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Speaker 1: because you're talking A six and we have soft climate

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Speaker 1: change denial gets into that. But I don't think. I

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Speaker 1: think self fund change denial can only be applied so

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Speaker 1: far when it comes to those sorts of big spectacles

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Speaker 1: and those big major events. Because even if they themselves

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Speaker 1: really truly understand the depths of climate change and trust

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Speaker 1: and believe like these wild barns and stuff, they knew

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Speaker 1: like they have all the info right present front of them,

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Speaker 1: They've done. They're already done. Their like cost benefit analyzes

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Speaker 1: and like risk assessments and kind of thing, so they

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Speaker 1: know exactly like what the impact going to be. They

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Speaker 1: have the money to have access to the scientists, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's not soft clime change denial for them. It's

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Speaker 1: I'm a capitalist, I'm going to do what a capitalist does.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's ultimately a funct Wait, they're operating within

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Speaker 1: a system, you know, so soft time changenial. Um, it

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Speaker 1: is like sort of a psychological phenomenon. But we also

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind the day is also like a

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Speaker 1: structural component to it. See that even if they're a

427
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: person does not face self clim change now is an

428
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: experiencing self clim change denial that alone, even if they're

429
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: like fully confront the sue, that's just an individual, you know,

430
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: and there's still like a whole structure around that individual

431
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: that we're still incentivize certain behavior, and then of course

432
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: with the incentives of certain behavior comes like the psychological

433
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: justifications for that behavior. So it kind of almost becomes

434
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: that they end up justifying themselves into self climate change denial,

435
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's kind of like

436
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: it's like a fluid that it's like a feedback loop

437
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: that reinforces its own existence. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I

438
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: think that honestly, Like the feedback loop model is where

439
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: we have a lot of our problems with the climate

440
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: change are. They're all very much linked to the feedback

441
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: loop model of things trying to justify their own existence.

442
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: And then you know, certain and then on the reverse

443
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: side of things, you know, when certain changes in the

444
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: climate happen, those create their own feedback loops which create

445
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: more changes to happen. It's like everything, everything, one one

446
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: massive loop. Yeah. I gets me to like, there's the

447
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: discourse around climate change and stuff is like halted and

448
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: divoted and immobilized, you know by soft climate change. Now,

449
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, discussions of the very real, very current, very

450
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: near future and very violent impacts of climate change just

451
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: basically softened, like like you know when you try to

452
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: throw a punch in a dream. Yeah, Like you're trying

453
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: to like push, and then it's like, you know, it's

454
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: like this kind of soft um or like you throw

455
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: something in space. I guess it's just you put all

456
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: this effort into it and then you go in another

457
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: direction that kind of thing. Um. I don't know what

458
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: I'm going with this analogy, so I'll just keep on going. Um,

459
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: basically that there's an issue with the conversation with the

460
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: discourse has just been you know, harmed by the psychological phenomenon.

461
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: But then, of course there's the other side of psychological

462
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: phenomenon of soft clan engine enial, not the hard colansin

463
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: genial side, but rather the I'm so on the opposite

464
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: end of soft cluanngin chanial that I'm like an inconsolable

465
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: and like illogical and I can't even imagine the possibility

466
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: of anything happening kind of yeah. Yeah, the kind of

467
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: the kind of extreme dumerism where you recognize how you

468
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: organize that climp tog is bad, um, but then you

469
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: you see it as such a massive, overwhelming thing that

470
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: basically shuts you down from be able to do anything else,

471
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: and you just like, exactly, there's really no going to

472
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: do anything if it's going to be this bad, There's

473
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: really no one's you know, it's such a hard capitalism

474
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: and the systems that are working to keep it going

475
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: or such a hard thing to overcome that it seems

476
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: like the best thing to do is just sit down

477
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: and do nothing. Yeah, And that's the thing right, Like

478
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: these are slash collapse people, right, Um, I mean I

479
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: appreciate that they don't shy away from like the really

480
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: difficult stuff, and they also stumble into this kind of

481
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: like hoop, that's dumorism, Like it's dramatic kind of we

482
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: are screwed. We're all going to be fighting this mad

483
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Max style arena. Like that's not how you know, clime

484
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: chine is going to play out. You know, it's not

485
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: a movie. You know, like if things are going to

486
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: break down in suit and places and other places are

487
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: gonna lockdown in suiting weez, but it's not going to

488
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: be like this certain globe devolution into madness like that.

489
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: You know, that's not really how social change. That's already

490
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: how collapses how you know, functional history. You know, of

491
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: course we live in a like a global civilization, and

492
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: previous collapses have been fairly localized. But still, you know,

493
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: climate change is both global and local, so there are

494
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: certain changes it will only affects it in localities. This

495
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: is something that actually the book Desert addresses fairly well,

496
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: and I find it frustram Yeah, yeah, because I find

497
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: really frustrating because especially on the online left, there's people

498
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: who treat desert like the Gospel, or at least they

499
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: say they do, but they're actually extreme doomers who fetishize collapse. Um,

500
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, everything is hopeless. Read desert but

501
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: then you but then but you really Desert is like

502
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: explicitly anti collapse. Same collapse isn't gonna happen. Collapse is

503
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: a fantasy you tell yourself to keep you going. And

504
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: for this kind haven't heard of? Desert The Desert is

505
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: a book that's available for free online about what's coming. Um.

506
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 1: It's titled desert because of an old quote about how

507
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: empires um leave nothing but deserts in their way. Basically

508
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: like that's it's it's just like a thing that that empire.

509
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: I think the exact quote is like empires make a

510
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: desert and call it peace. Um. And it's it's basically

511
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: discussing the fact like not just literal desertification, but like, um,

512
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: that that's more of a more of a better picture

513
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: of like our future under climate change than kind of

514
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: these these mad max dreams this like slow dissolution of

515
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: resources and uh environments um. And that that's kind of

516
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: the Yeah, it's a it's a good book. You can

517
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: read it yourself, and it's it's quite influential online. Um.

518
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, as as Garrison pointed out, there are people

519
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: who kind of take it in a in a direction

520
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: that I don't believe the authors. I mean clearly the

521
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: author didn't mean, because they directly called out that kind

522
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: of thinking. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like some people

523
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: treat like collapse and stuff as basically the secular version

524
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: of like revelation in the Bible. Yeah yeah, or it's

525
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: or it's like the non marketus version of like the Revolution.

526
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: It's like it's like this this kind of mythical event

527
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: to like prepare for and almost be excited for, but

528
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: like it's it's fake. It's a fantasy. It's it's something

529
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves to keep ourselves going as things are bad.

530
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: But it's not. It's it's not real. Yeah, Like any day,

531
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: you know, the trumpets will sound in the heavens and

532
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: the screws will be broken and the great, the great

533
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: beast will arise from the sea and you know all that.

534
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: Five Yeah, And I don't know what the solution is

535
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: for that. I I don't know how both on the

536
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: soft climate denial side of like how do you go

537
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: about how do you go about It's like, the only

538
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: thing we can really do is the people, you know,

539
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: we know, how how do we go about and tell

540
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: them that, hey, things are probably gonna be a bit

541
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: worse and which you're preparing for. Um And how do

542
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: we tell the people who are doomers, Hey, it's not

543
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: gonna be like this weird dystopian thing that you're thinking of.

544
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: Either it's like it's it's it's interesting because like they're

545
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: both veering off in two opposite directions, but it both

546
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: kind of leads to the same point of kind of

547
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: doing nothing. But one version. One version of nothing is basically,

548
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, voting for stuff that's not that's never gonna happen.

549
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: The other version is not just not doing anything in general.

550
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: Um And I I don't know how to how to

551
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: reach those types of people very easily. Yeah, which kind

552
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: of brings me to like my thoughts on like how

553
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: we move past soft climate change Nile. Um. I don't

554
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: think it's just a matter of like trying to like

555
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: push like campaigns on people. I think it's gonna be

556
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: like a very personal sort of journey that each person

557
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: has to go through, right, because each wisnes is different.

558
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: Each wisnes is like has different worries and dealing things

559
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: in a different way, you know. Um, so like you

560
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: want to keep in mind like people's mental health and

561
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: sort of fortifying your mental health and helping people fortified days.

562
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Because when it comes to mental health with regard to

563
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: like climate change, doing it an isolation in my experience

564
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: has not really worked out. I think what has worked

565
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: best for me is when I am with why I

566
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: am connected with a group of people or even just

567
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,479
Speaker 1: one other person, and when I'm feeling down about climate change.

568
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: Because despite all my messages of what sular punk and

569
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, we can do this like that that's basically

570
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: the message of my YouTube channel. You know, I still

571
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: experience like those sort of thoughts and feelings public about it.

572
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: But what I try to do is when I'm feeling

573
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: those things, I try to be with people who are

574
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: not currently feeding that, you know, so we're not feeding

575
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: all of each other's next of energies. Yeah, so like

576
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: when I'm in a bad spot, you know, people are

577
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: on who could lift me up, and when day about

578
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: dy in a boat spot because it kind of comes

579
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: and weaves, you know, Yeah, absolutely no, Yeah, it's it's

580
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: it's silly to deny those thoughts exist because they do.

581
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: Like they're they're very they're a very easy neutral state

582
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: at least for me to slip into UM. And the

583
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: way to get around that is by doing chores at

584
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: a farm and shoveling poop and taking care of animals

585
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: and cooking for people. That's like the way that I

586
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: get out of that kind of mindset. And you know,

587
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: not not to be too hard on all of the

588
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: kind of doomer nihilists, because there there is there, there

589
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: is a there's this there's like a sect of like

590
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: doomer nihilists who use like the actual definition of nihilism,

591
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: which is like if if things don't really matter, we

592
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: should probably fux some stuff up UM. And that's very useful,

593
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: right like if if if you're if if you're on

594
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: that train and you're like, yeah, you should be tree spiking,

595
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: if if if if you're okay with if you think

596
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: nothing matters UM, and you are you want to be

597
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: an actual nihilist, then yeah you should make you should

598
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: make destroy um. Just make sure it's focused on the

599
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: people with actual power UM. Because if if you're willing

600
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: to do that, then great, we need we need as

601
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: many as many people like that as possible. But it's

602
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 1: certainly easier to do that once you have friends and

603
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: once you're not stuck in this super depressed state all

604
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, and um, I think there's a again.

605
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: We we we do take a look at like some

606
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: of the criticisms people have a the show online, and

607
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: I know one that's come up a bunch is people

608
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: will listen to like our when when we'll talk about out,

609
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, the severity of the problems and then we'll

610
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: talk about things like you know, mutual aid collectives and

611
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: small guards, seed bombings and all that stuff, they'll be like, well,

612
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: that's not a solution. And no, of course that's not

613
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: going to solve the global problem of carbon emissions from

614
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: a civilization of seven billion humans. What it does do

615
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: focusing on stuff like that, focusing on building soil um,

616
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: focusing on building community resistance. In addition to like having

617
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: an immediate impact on the number of people you know,

618
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: in in in your community, it builds a sense of um,

619
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: a sense of power for the individual. It It gives

620
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: you something to do that isn't just thinking about how

621
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: bad things are, and that puts you in a mind

622
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: state that's more useful to actually potentially dealing with the

623
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: bigger problems at some point. Um, you have to have

624
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: a sense of your own agency that feels real if

625
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: you're going to actually change anything, um, And you can.

626
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: You can build It's a hustle, right, you can build

627
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: it up by by doing things that are not bigger

628
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: but are are part of the solution. UM. And it's

629
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: exactly valuable to do that for your own for your

630
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: own mental health, because then maybe you if you're maybe

631
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: if if your friend group, if your your affinity group,

632
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it, the people you are hanging

633
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: out with, if some of them are always engaged in

634
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: something productive, then when you're in a doomed spiral, you

635
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: can find someone who's working on something um and vice versa. Yeah,

636
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: And it doesn't just help your mental health, but it

637
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: also contributes to the pre figurative activities that we need

638
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: to actually make us switch to a different system. You know,

639
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: like revolution is something that happens overnight or in a future,

640
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: it's something that's supposed to be happening all now. Because

641
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: as we build those systems, you know, we are building

642
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: up power. You know, it's kind of like how the

643
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: Black socialst in America described dual power. You know, it

644
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: should be a building the systems and putting these things

645
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: in please so that we can push towards like fundamental transmission.

646
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: This is it's insterative, but a small people build on

647
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: top of that, you know, that's how the transmission happens.

648
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: We all also need to contribute. I mean, I think

649
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: it's it's it's important to talk about this both to acknowledge,

650
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: like it's a thing that happens and we all deal with.

651
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: We all have our moments of like overwhelming despair over

652
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: what's happening. Um, and and at some some moments of

653
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: unrealistic optimism too. Yeah, everyone's in a while, and the

654
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: unrealistic optimism needs to be encouraged. UM, as long as

655
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: it's not the kind of what we don't need to

656
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: do anything because someone's I guess there's toxic optimism, and

657
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: there's helpful. A toxic optimism would be like reading an

658
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: article about some new carbon capture technology and being like,

659
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: oh cool, well I don't need to worry. Um. But

660
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: but most optimism I think is po positive and I

661
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: think it's good to build a capacity for optimism by

662
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: by building your your personal sense of of agency and power,

663
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: by by doing ship that helps UM. And I think

664
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: that accepting that you can do things that are meaningful UM,

665
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: and that uh there are things to be done that

666
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: can help the situation is a critical way of fighting

667
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: against you know this uh soft climate change denial, which

668
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: which is a um, a major threat because there's I think,

669
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: honestly at this point, more people who are subscribing to

670
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: some form of soft climate change denial than there are

671
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: people who are uh just denying climate change in its entirety. UM.

672
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: And that's I think where a lot of the effort

673
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: has to go. So I yeah, I think this is

674
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: a really important thing for people to understand and to

675
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: be vigilant against. Absolutely. Yeah. All right, well Andrew, where

676
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: can in the audience find you? Outside? To find me

677
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: here right now? Yeah, so you can find me on

678
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: my YouTube channel St Andrew's UM and you can find

679
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at und School of Since you excellent, Well,

680
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: you can find us here where you just found us.

681
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: We'll be here tomorrow unless this is a Friday, in

682
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: which case we'll be here on Monday. UM. Have a

683
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: have a good you know life, have a good life.

684
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: Take care. It could Happen Here as a production of

685
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. But more podcasts from cool Zone Media.

686
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: Visit our website cool zone media dot com or check

687
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

688
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

689
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone

690
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.