1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,279
Speaker 1: Friendship is one of the most reliable sources of predictability

2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,840
Speaker 1: that exists within human interactions.

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,719
Speaker 2: Professor of neurobiology at Stanford University, doctor Huberman, launched the

4
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,120
Speaker 2: Humoran Lab podcast concentrating on neuroscience and other scientific topics

5
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 2: neuroscientists neurobiologists. Andrew Huberman.

6
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 1: We could say this about any organism, but humans included.

7
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,480
Speaker 2: We need the feeling of safety and acceptance.

8
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: If ever, there was a practice that I wish every

9
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: human being on the planet would do besides go out

10
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 1: in view morning sunlight, it would.

11
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 3: Be weird throw to announce that we've reached three million subscribers.

12
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,919
Speaker 3: We're incredibly grateful for each and every one of you.

13
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit that

14
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,280
Speaker 3: subscribe button so you never miss out on any of

15
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 3: our new releases. We're dedicated to bringing you the content

16
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,360
Speaker 3: you love. Our team carefully analyzes what resonates most with

17
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,160
Speaker 3: you to bring on board the best experts and storytellers

18
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 3: to help you improve your life. Some of your favorite

19
00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:04,319
Speaker 3: topics are deep science, weight loss, physical fitness, navigating breakups,

20
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 3: habit building, and understanding toxic relationships. Upcoming episodes include one

21
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 3: of the biggest names in health and science world, renowned

22
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,679
Speaker 3: relationship therapist, and your favorite manifestation expert is back to

23
00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 3: drop new findings. Hit subscribe to not miss any of

24
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,040
Speaker 3: these episodes. If you think of someone who would love

25
00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,840
Speaker 3: this episode, send it to them to make their day.

26
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,960
Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast.

27
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 3: Jay Seti, Jay Sheety. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose.

28
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful that you decided to lend me your

29
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,760
Speaker 3: eyes and ears for the next few moments. Today's guest

30
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,120
Speaker 3: is one of your favorites. He's been on the show before.

31
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 3: He's one of my favorite humans too. I'm speaking about

32
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,919
Speaker 3: the one and only doctor Andrew Huberman, neuroscientist and tenured

33
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 3: professor in the departments of Neurobiology and by courtesy Psychiatry

34
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 3: and Behavioral Sciences at Stama School of Medicine. Doctor Huberman

35
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 3: has made numerous significant contributions to the fields of brain development,

36
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 3: brain function, and neural plasticity. In addition to his role

37
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 3: at Stanford, doctor Huberman is the host of the incredible

38
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,240
Speaker 3: podcast Huberman Lab. If you're not a subscriber already, which

39
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 3: I'd be very surprised, make sure you do subscribe. I'm

40
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,120
Speaker 3: so excited to welcome my friend and incredible expert, doctor

41
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 3: Andrew Huberman. Andrew, it's such a pleasure to have you

42
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 3: here again. I'm so grateful that you took the time

43
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 3: out and I can honestly say I've spent time with

44
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 3: you offline and online, and what's been beautiful is just

45
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 3: your humility, your sincerity and genuineness across the board. And

46
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 3: I know we exchange texts and calls and messages frequently

47
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 3: and I'm just loving our growing friendship. So thank you

48
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,960
Speaker 3: so much for what you do online but also who

49
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,959
Speaker 3: you are offline to me personally as a friend.

50
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me here today and for

51
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,799
Speaker 1: being such an amazing friend and a wonderful thing to

52
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 1: get get to know you better. And you know, the

53
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 1: public facing Jayshetty is an incredible person and the private

54
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 1: world Jayshetty is equally extraordinary in overlapping but also distinct ways.

55
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: So it's been a lot of fun and I look

56
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 1: forward to growing our friendship further.

57
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 3: Thank you, And I mean that's actually you know, I

58
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 3: never thought about this when I was preparing for our

59
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 3: conversation today, but maybe there's something beautiful to tap into

60
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 3: there and to hear about the neuroscience of friendship because

61
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 3: I feel that we keep talking about the loneliness epidemic

62
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 3: that we're experiencing in the world right now. We keep

63
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 3: talking about this feeling that people have of not being

64
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 3: seen by their friends, not being understood by their colleagues,

65
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 3: not feeling heard by their family members. People are surrounded

66
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 3: by lots of people but feel really disconnected. We're seeing

67
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 3: this growing rise of interconnectivity and more friends and more

68
00:03:54,680 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 3: followers online, but then feeling really, saying what's the right word,

69
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 3: not even isolated or disconnected because we feel like we're

70
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 3: surrounded by people, but we feel emotionally distant from people.

71
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 3: What's happening from a neuroscience perspective as our friendships are

72
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 3: getting weaker even though our followerships and online friendships are

73
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 3: getting bigger.

74
00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: So at the neuroscience level, we have to remember that

75
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,600
Speaker 1: the brain circuitry, which of course is always linked to

76
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,640
Speaker 1: the body. We want to remember brain body are fortunately

77
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: now understood to be interconnected. Five years ago, ten years ago,

78
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 1: that wasn't so much an accepted idea. But the nervous system,

79
00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: the brain, the spinal cord and all the connections to

80
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 1: the body and back to the brain and spinal cord

81
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,359
Speaker 1: are bidirectional and highly interconnected. So when we say brain,

82
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,359
Speaker 1: I'm more or less using it as a proxy for

83
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,240
Speaker 1: a whole nervous system, including body. The circuits that are

84
00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 1: responsible for feelings of social connectedness are deeply, deeply rooted in.

85
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 2: Our need for safety.

86
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: We could say this about any organism, but humans included

87
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 1: need two things. I believe we need the feeling of

88
00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,599
Speaker 1: safety and acceptance. And so we are to have a

89
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: conversation about the kind of loftier words like peace, contentment, fulfillment, belonging.

90
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 1: I think I borrow that list, by the way, from

91
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 1: the incredible Martha Beck. So it's not a coincidence that

92
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 1: those rattled off my mind, But I feel like those

93
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 1: four words are so critical to what we all want

94
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,440
Speaker 1: and what we all need at an aspirational level. We

95
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: can't have a discussion about those without also, I believe

96
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 1: having a discussion about the fact that we have hardwired

97
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,680
Speaker 1: aspects of our nervous system, meaning genetic programs that are

98
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: written into the script of all our genomes, regardless of color,

99
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 1: regardless of background, that are just scripted into our genome

100
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,480
Speaker 1: that allow us to breathe without thinking about it, digest

101
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,239
Speaker 1: food without thinking about it, keep our heart rate going

102
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,480
Speaker 1: without thinking about it, elevated if it needs to be,

103
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 1: slowed down if it needs to be, etc. And then

104
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: hardwired circuitry that is there for bonding with our caretaker

105
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 1: during early infancy and bonding with others of our species,

106
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,159
Speaker 1: and evaluating whether there is safety and acceptance from the

107
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 1: other members of our species. Now, these brain circuits have names,

108
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: and we could get into that they almost all have

109
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,240
Speaker 1: some connectedness to an area of the brain called the hypothalamus,

110
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 1: which sits above the roof of your mouth, which has many,

111
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 1: many dense collections of neurons we call nuclei, responsible for

112
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,840
Speaker 1: everything from temperature regulation to feeding, to reproductive behavior and

113
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 1: on and on, all the basic kind of housekeeping things.

114
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 1: But connected to those brain areas are brain areas that

115
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 1: are associated with evaluating whether one is safe or not.

116
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,919
Speaker 1: So safety and acceptance. Then we can break down in

117
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 1: the following way. If we look at it through this

118
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: neuroscience lens, safety is really about the ability to predict outcomes. Okay,

119
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 1: and the brain, after being responsible for all these housekeeping

120
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,000
Speaker 1: functions heart rate et cetera, is largely a predictive organ

121
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: It wants to understand what's going to happen next to

122
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: the extent that it can then free up mental real

123
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 1: estate neural real estate to work on creative projects or

124
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 1: to build things, or to imagine things. Right, there's no creativity,

125
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: there's no building in the absence of safety.

126
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 2: Then it just becomes survival.

127
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: So the kind of older discussion, meaning in the eighties,

128
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 1: nineties and early two thousands, the discussion about the nervous

129
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: system was we would hear about higher brain order functions

130
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 1: and limbic functions, right, weird hear about kind of primitive

131
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 1: lizard brain and more evolvrain and all of that is

132
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 1: frankly true. It remains true, and that language is perfectly fine.

133
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 1: But I think if we are to think about safety

134
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 1: and acceptance, we say, what is safety about? Safety is

135
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: about being able to predict outcomes when we are in

136
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,679
Speaker 1: the company of people, or we know we have people

137
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,080
Speaker 1: available to us. Should we need something food, maybe we

138
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: need a monetary loan, Maybe we need a word of encouragement,

139
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 1: Maybe we need somebody to bounce ideas off of whatever

140
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 1: it is that constitutes safety for us. Subjective, highly individual well,

141
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: then when those circuits can quiet down, it says, if

142
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, they can finally quiet down, and so we

143
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: have enough safety, so that then we can start to explore,

144
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 1: iterating what we have in terms of new jobs, new

145
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 1: creative ideas, new art, new you know, take a walk

146
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: with somebody you care about. Right, those are not the

147
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: sorts of things you do when you feel that you

148
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: are under siege, either real siege, physical siege, or emotional siege. Okay,

149
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,440
Speaker 1: then acceptance gets a little bit trickier to sort of

150
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 1: pinpoint in the brain. Acceptance likely dovetails neurologically with this

151
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 1: these brain circuits for safety, because acceptance is really about well,

152
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 1: given the range of expressions that we have, our range

153
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: of humor, our range of political beliefs, our range of behaviors,

154
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,840
Speaker 1: can I predict that these safety mechanisms will still be there,

155
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,960
Speaker 1: These people will still be there, These things will still

156
00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 1: be there. Will they turn on me? Will they on

157
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: me right? Will they laugh with my jokes? Or will

158
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 1: they decide they don't want to talk to me anymore

159
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,720
Speaker 1: because of my jokes? These kinds of things. Now, what

160
00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to not do here and at the same

161
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,719
Speaker 1: time do is to put a neuroscience lens onto these

162
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: two things of safety and acceptance. But if we were

163
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,840
Speaker 1: to just take a step back and say, what do

164
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: we know to absolutely be true? Well, safety and acceptance, belonging, peace, contentment, etc.

165
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: Come from a variety of sources. Certainly in our early

166
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,479
Speaker 1: relationship with our caretakers, the circuits form that are basically

167
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: all about resonance with the caretaker. Alan Shore here at

168
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 1: UCLA has done beautiful work on this. I think the

169
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 1: book's title is called right Brain Psychotherapy, and it's really

170
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 1: about how the bonding of infant and typically mother, but

171
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,719
Speaker 1: how the word caretaker the bonding of infant and I'll

172
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,800
Speaker 1: just say mother since that's the more typical scenario. There's

173
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: actually a lot of synchronization of brain networks early on,

174
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,200
Speaker 1: such that one's physical and mental state reflects the other

175
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: and so on, and so from the very early stages

176
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 1: that we come into the world, we are resonating with

177
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: other people. Call it energy, if you want, call it emotions.

178
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,400
Speaker 1: It's neurochemical. Yes, it involves oxytocin, but a whole lot else.

179
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 1: In other words, we leave infancy and childhood and adolescence

180
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 1: if we have a healthy upbringing with a sense of predictability.

181
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,719
Speaker 1: Someone can be there and then not be there. They're

182
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 1: accessible if we need them, etc. Now, that sort of relationship,

183
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: that connectivity between humans and safety and acceptance in those

184
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: relationships has been explored extensively. I think we've all seen

185
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,800
Speaker 1: the image of the mother and child and the brain

186
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: imaging and seeing some sort of collaborative activation of their

187
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 1: brain networks. That's been explored extensively, and it's beautiful work,

188
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 1: and we could always use more of that sort of work.

189
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,880
Speaker 1: What's been explored far less is the safety and acceptance

190
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 1: that occurs between romantic pairs, although there are laboratories starting

191
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: to do that, having people, for instance, look at the

192
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,839
Speaker 1: face of their significant other angry, sad, et cetera, while

193
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 1: in brain scanners, even scanning of two individuals separately at

194
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,319
Speaker 1: the same time, those sorts of things. Far less has

195
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: been done on this notion of friendship. But I think

196
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,719
Speaker 1: in this day and age, when well, it seems like

197
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,080
Speaker 1: everything is more complicated.

198
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 2: But I'm sure they've.

199
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,840
Speaker 1: Been saying that for for decades or not hundreds of

200
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: thousands of years. What do we know about friendship? Friendship

201
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,320
Speaker 1: is one of the most reliable sources of predictability that

202
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 1: exists within human interactions. Why because you can have many,

203
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 1: many friends, and you don't have to break up with

204
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 1: one friend to have another friend. When you were when

205
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 1: we're little, they say who's your best friend? And maybe

206
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 1: then you could only have one. But pretty soon we

207
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: realize that we can have many great friends, many best friends,

208
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: and I consider you one of those, Like we're growing

209
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,439
Speaker 1: our friendship. But there's no sense of trade off, even though,

210
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 1: of course time is always a trade off. In fact,

211
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 1: you were at a gathering at my home with many

212
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:47,760
Speaker 1: other friends.

213
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 2: Right.

214
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 1: This seems can be collaborative, typically in romantic relationships. While

215
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,800
Speaker 1: there are exceptions to this is typically a pairing right. So,

216
00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:00,679
Speaker 1: there are clearly brain networks that are overlapping with the

217
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: brain networks associated with parent, child or child caretaker relationships

218
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 1: and romantic relationships that involve the generation of safety and

219
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: acceptance among friends. The major difference, however, is that friends

220
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 1: throughout history, even when people lived in small villages, tended

221
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,960
Speaker 1: to be dispersed by greater distances. And so when we

222
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,360
Speaker 1: hear about the loneliness crisis, are we hearing about a

223
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 1: crisis of lack of connectivity with our parents, maybe with

224
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 1: our siblings, possible with romantic others. That's a whole domain

225
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 1: into itself. You cover a lot of that and the

226
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: challenges associated with finding and building healthy romantic relationship. But

227
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 1: what we know for sure, based on extensive research now,

228
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:49,679
Speaker 1: is that there's a real dearth of close friendships for many,

229
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,880
Speaker 1: many people, not just in the US, but abroad as well.

230
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 1: Now we could make an argument that it's by virtue

231
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 1: of smartphones, but I don't think we want to go

232
00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 1: there just yet. I think Jonathan Heights doing a beautiful

233
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: job exploiting those ideas, and he's far better equipped to

234
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 1: to kind of pinpoint the relationships causal er otherwise than

235
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 1: I am. But here's what we know for sure. With friends,

236
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 1: we can both hope for and expect safety and acceptance

237
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 1: by virtue of having lots of different kinds of friends.

238
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 1: Friends with whom we play sport, friends with whom we

239
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 1: just hang out, friends with whom we don't really talk

240
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,319
Speaker 1: too much at all, and friends with whom we drop

241
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 1: into deep conversation with. So one of the things that

242
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 1: I personally have found to be immensely beneficial in my

243
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,559
Speaker 1: own life, and for which it's clearly had an outsized

244
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 1: positive effect relative that the time required is a simple

245
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 1: good morning text that comes on a reliable schedule, meaning

246
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 1: every single morning. Now this might sound almost trivial, but

247
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: when I wake up in the morning, I either receive

248
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 1: or send a good morning text to Right now, they

249
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 1: are about three people in that kind of collection. They're

250
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: not talking to each other. But if I don't receive

251
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 1: that text by noon, it activates something in me.

252
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 2: It's not a ton of.

253
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 1: Anxiety, but it activates something. Are they okay? What's going

254
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: on with them? You know it isn't Why aren't they

255
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: checking up on me? I assume something's come up. But

256
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,120
Speaker 1: the simple receival of a text from somebody saying good morning,

257
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 1: I think has both ancient and modern significance. Ancient in

258
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 1: the sense that one of the first things that everyone

259
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 1: experienced when we lived in small villages, because that's essentially

260
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 1: how we evolved, was to see faces of other what

261
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: biologists call conspecifics, other you know, and other same non

262
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 1: conspecific people like people that could be romantic partners or

263
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 1: family members or people we were going to work with.

264
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: We saw faces first thing in the morning, and we

265
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 1: know with certainty, because there's a ton of beautiful work,

266
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 1: mainly from Nancy Canwisher's laboratory MIT, a brilliant researcher, as

267
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: well as a woman named Doris Soo who now is

268
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: at Berkeley was at Caltech, that there's an immense amount

269
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: of neural real estate devoted to the processing of faces,

270
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 1: not just facial expressions, but human faces in particular. Now

271
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 1: monkeys have the same brain area for monkey faces, so

272
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 1: this is not an area that's just designed to.

273
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 2: See eyes, nose, and mouth.

274
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 1: It's a brain area that has neural real estate that

275
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 1: responds specifically to the faces of other humans in humans,

276
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 1: And there's a whole lot to talk about how it's

277
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 1: connected with areas of the brain involved in emotion and

278
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 1: emotion regulation, et cetera. But the simple act of sending

279
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 1: a good morning text to one person and receiving that back,

280
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 1: perhaps exchanging a note or two about what's your plan

281
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: for the day, doesn't have to be an extensive back

282
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,640
Speaker 1: and forth, but the same person or persons consistently. I've

283
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 1: experienced in my own life, in times both good and

284
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 1: bad and kind of neutral, that it has this outsized

285
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: positive effect. And I don't think that's because you know,

286
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 1: I was lacking social interaction. My life is very full.

287
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: I have a very busy business life. I can go

288
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: online and see faces. But when we go online and

289
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: see a familiar influencer, or a familiar political figure, or

290
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: a familiar even family member, yes they're there, and I

291
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 1: think there's great power to that, But they aren't there

292
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 1: specifically to see us. Although as creators we know that

293
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,360
Speaker 1: we are there to see our audience and for them

294
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 1: to see us, that's a real thing, but it's quite

295
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 1: different to have this exchange, this reciprocity. And I really

296
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: believe that if there was one thing that we could

297
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 1: each and all do to better our lives, no matter

298
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: how busy our social schedule or are at home environments,

299
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: is to have at least one, but probably one to three,

300
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 1: depending on your bandwidth, one to three friends that every

301
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: single morning, when you wake up, you text them and

302
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: they text you back, just a simple good morning. Why

303
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 1: Because it's the reliability. It's this notion of expectation being fulfilled.

304
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: It's not a huge expectation, and this brings us back

305
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 1: to safety and acceptance. Right, No one's going to text

306
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: us good morning if they don't accept us if they

307
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 1: dismiss us, and the safety is in the predictability of

308
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,400
Speaker 1: the interaction. Now for people that walk to the corner

309
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: and they see the barista and they get their or

310
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,240
Speaker 1: they see their neighbor, et cetera. The importance of saying

311
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: hello to people on the street. This is something that's

312
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 1: really fallen away these days. Depends on where you live,

313
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,159
Speaker 1: but people are very much in their phones. People are

314
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 1: very much afraid, frankly, of how they will be reacted

315
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: to if they were to reach out to somebody that

316
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,439
Speaker 1: they don't know. These basic human interactions take us back hundreds,

317
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: if not thousands, maybe even tens or hundreds of thousands

318
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,480
Speaker 1: of years.

319
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 2: And if I were to put.

320
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,640
Speaker 1: My money on any experiment, it would be that there

321
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 1: is dedicated neural machinery for these sorts of practices. And

322
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 1: while social media has wonderful contributions and significance to make

323
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 1: in the well being of our lives, I truly believe

324
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: that I am absolutely certain that these simple practices, just

325
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 1: as morning sunlight can profoundly affect our daytime mood, focus

326
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: and alertness in nighttime sleep. I think these simple practices

327
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: of saying good morning by text each morning to the

328
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,719
Speaker 1: same person or people and receiving a text back sets

329
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,120
Speaker 1: something on the shelf like Okay, we're good to move

330
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 1: forward to today.

331
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,400
Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Jay Schetty and I'm thrilled to announce

332
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 3: my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can

333
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,280
Speaker 3: see my on Purpose podcast live and in person. Join

334
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 3: me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations

335
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 3: with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert,

336
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,120
Speaker 3: or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences

337
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 3: designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections.

338
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on

339
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 3: cell now, Head to Jayshetty dot me and get yours today. Yeah.

340
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 3: Two things came to mind as you were speaking. Your

341
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 3: habit of the text every morning makes me feel like

342
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 3: you're getting to write a story with someone and force someone.

343
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 3: And so there's this sense of someone knows my story.

344
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,199
Speaker 3: And now it's not like, oh, I speak to you

345
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,679
Speaker 3: once a month and we're catching up on everything that

346
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 3: happened and you're missing the nuance and the extra in

347
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 3: the detail. It's like I'm getting to log my story

348
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 3: in every day which means I really feel this person

349
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 3: knows me and I know them. So now when we

350
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 3: do get together this weekend to break bread, I don't

351
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 3: have to do that in between small talk. They're already aware.

352
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 3: And now we're just almost connecting all the dots, as

353
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 3: opposed to I'm now using my time with you to

354
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 3: plot all the dots. So there's that sense of like

355
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,160
Speaker 3: story exchange, which I think is so important. I find

356
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 3: that that my friends you've known me the longest, but

357
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 3: the ones that I also consistently text every day, they're

358
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 3: the ones that I feel understand the tapestry of my

359
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 3: life and I know theirs. And so now you're not

360
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 3: just looking at dots on a wall. Look, you're connecting

361
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 3: the dots in that meeting, which I think is I

362
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,120
Speaker 3: don't know. I'd love to hear how that works out

363
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 3: from a neuroscience perspective. But the second thing that I

364
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,200
Speaker 3: was reminded by as you were speaking was I feel

365
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 3: like writing down. I always encourage a lot of my

366
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 3: clients to do this, to write down a list of

367
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: emotions they'd like to experience with people. So it could

368
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 3: be things like adventure, discovery, comfort, humor, love, whatever it

369
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 3: may be just write down the list and then for

370
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 3: each one write down the name of a different person.

371
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 3: Ideally that fulfills that need in your life, because often

372
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 3: I feel like we put a lot of pressure on

373
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 3: our romantic partners or one person in our life to

374
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 3: be all these things, and the truth is, no matter

375
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 3: how phenomenal anyone is or how much they love us,

376
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 3: they just can't be that. And so if you have, hey,

377
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 3: I've reached out to this friend when I want some

378
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 3: adventure because they love it too. If I want to

379
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 3: see a sports game, this is the person I reach

380
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 3: out to. And then do the same in the opposite way.

381
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 3: Which one of those do you fulfill for your friends?

382
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 3: What emotions do you help other people create? And I

383
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: feel like if you look at friendship as a spectrum,

384
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: as this broad set of connection points, rather than like

385
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 3: this is my best friend as you were saying, or

386
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 3: this is my number one friend, and we get away

387
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,959
Speaker 3: from hierarchy and we move more into a spectrum, I

388
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: feel like that mixed in with the text today starts

389
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: creating a much more healthier network of what connection means.

390
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 3: As well. It's also not just the same person doing

391
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 3: the same thing every week.

392
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

393
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 1: I love the idea that by staying in contact regularly

394
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: we don't have to get caught up, and that then

395
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 1: we can just drop into what's most meaningful on that

396
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 1: particular day and maybe even have more available to us

397
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: to have a new experience, right as opposed to just

398
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 1: catching up. And then, of course there are those friends

399
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 1: that we catch up with and it feels like it

400
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: was just yesterday. Definitely, But I'd be willing to bet

401
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,159
Speaker 1: that those were people that you spent a lot of

402
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: day to daytime activity with them from a university, or

403
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time just in the kind

404
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: of everyday shared experience for a while, and then when

405
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: you see each other again, it's like being right back there.

406
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: The neuroscience of this hasn't been explored near but given

407
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: that our very own Surgeon General highlighted the loneliness crisis

408
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: as one of the major crises in the world today,

409
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: I think that in terms of simple solutions to big

410
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: important problems, developing more connectivity with people through simple practices,

411
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: and again we're talking about a text here. I mean

412
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: I will be the first to say that if you

413
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: can hop on a phone call or you can get

414
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: on you know, a video chat with somebody that would

415
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: certainly be better, but many people just don't have time.

416
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 3: For that show.

417
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: So in terms of spending time with people in a

418
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: deeper and richer way, you know, getting the drop in time,

419
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: as it were. I love that you mentioned adventure. I'm

420
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: almost forty nine. I turned forty nine in just over

421
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: a month, and I would say that the first forty

422
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: nine years of my life have been marked by a

423
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: real thirst for adventure, a ton of curiosity. Now I

424
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: really feel myself entering a completely different season of my life.

425
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm sort of hoping this would eventually happen, in part

426
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: because you know, I took some some kind of dangerous turns.

427
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: You know, I took risks with my with my life

428
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: at points where I didn't really intend to do that.

429
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: But you know, you seek enough adventure, you're gonna you're

430
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: gonna find adventure, and you have to be quite careful.

431
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 1: I have friends with whom I had tons of adventure,

432
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: and then now the adventures are far more docile and quiet,

433
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: and of course the internal adventure is real as well.

434
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: I think that friends with whom we can just be

435
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: one version of ourselves are wonderful friends. With whom we

436
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: can be all versions of ourself is especially wonderful. That's

437
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: the acceptance piece. Typically, I think we look more for

438
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: that in romantic relationship. This notion of just like safety

439
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: and acceptance being hallmarks of healthy romantic relationship, I think

440
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: those are also the hallmarks of healthy friendship. It's just

441
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: that with friendship we can be a bit more segmented

442
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: in terms of the number of different aspects of self

443
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: that we need safety and acceptance with. I think with

444
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: friendship also, you know, I've found it to be the

445
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: case that really knowing what's going on with people has

446
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: become a little bit more difficult. There's this there's this

447
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: kind of odd thing right where we're more interconnected in

448
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: terms of availability of communication, but we're less aware of

449
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: what's really going on for people. In fact, on the

450
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: way here, I had a call with a friend and

451
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: their headset was making a lot of noise, and so.

452
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 2: We agreed.

453
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: They said, Hey, how about I just turned mute mine

454
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: and for the next two minutes. I'm not kidding. This

455
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: is how they this is what they said.

456
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: They said, just tell me, like what's on your heart

457
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: or what's in your heart.

458
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: Hopefully it wasn't on your heart? What's in your heart?

459
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, wow, that's tough. You know,

460
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: that's tough. I mean, I okay, and I know that

461
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: they're listening, and then but it's very silent on the

462
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: other end, and I'm kind of speaking into a vacuum

463
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: there because they're not hearing anything. And then had maybe

464
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: just two minutes before we curled up the hill because

465
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: of the reception in the area that we're in, as

466
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, is always complicated to just get feedback. It

467
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: was very interesting, like I realized that I felt close

468
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: to them before, but just the notion that they would

469
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: ask me that how do I feel? Not what's going

470
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: on lately? Not you know, am I feeling good or bad?

471
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: Like a valuation of feelings, but just like what's going on?

472
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: And I stumbled a bit at first, but I can

473
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: realize in saying it now, like I'm quite moved by

474
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: the fact that they would ask that of all things,

475
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: as opposed to like what's going on, what's your next

476
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: podcast about? And coming to visit that sort of thing.

477
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: And so like I'm taking a lot of cues these

478
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: days from people that make me feel very seen and accepted,

479
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: you're one of them, I must say, Like, I don't

480
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: just say that because we're in front of these microphones

481
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: and sitting here, like you and I have been in

482
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: touch a lot lately, through good times and hard times

483
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of different things.

484
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: It's not.

485
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: A coincidence, though, that I think that we're here because

486
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: and talking about this, because I think that ultimately the

487
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: questions that we ask of the people we care about

488
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: are just as important as reminding them that we're there.

489
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: Because when we ask a question like you know, what's

490
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: in your heart, what we're really saying is you know,

491
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: like what's really going on for you, as opposed to

492
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: like what's the next podcast about? Which is an interesting

493
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: question to me, but you know, so you know, this

494
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: is more your territory than mine. But I think in

495
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: the end, I think it comes back to safety and acceptance,

496
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: simple behaviors like a good morning check in, and then

497
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: asking questions that might feel a little bit challenging for

498
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: the other person to answer at first, but that really

499
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: show a depth of care and interest that go beyond

500
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: just kind of like narrative and storytelling. And I think

501
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: one thing that I'm also very eager about these days

502
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: is breaking down some of the traditional stereotypes, like you know,

503
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: for anyone that's listening to this and goes, oh, you know,

504
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: I didn't you know, men don't talk that way or something,

505
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: it's like, actually they do. They do, and if given

506
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: the chance, they will open up about things that perhaps

507
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: they hadn't even thought about. And I confess on one

508
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: of those people, maybe it was my y chromosome and

509
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: got in the way of me thinking like, wait, what

510
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: do you want me to talk about? What's in my heart? Hey,

511
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: actually that's a really great question, thank you. And so

512
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: I think this brings us back to these early circuits

513
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: that are all about safety and acceptance, that are all

514
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: about being able to predict things and basically to say, okay,

515
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: I don't have to be vigilant. That's really what safety

516
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: is about, is about turning off the neural circuits for vigilance.

517
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: When we turn off the neural circuits for vigilance, we

518
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: can start to direct our neural circuits, vision, auditory, whatever

519
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: thoughts towards an awareness of things that are both inside

520
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: us and around us that keep us in that calm state.

521
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: I mean, vigilance is associated with stress. Stresses associated with

522
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: a narrowing of the visual field and narrowing of the

523
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: auditory fields. I'll just use this analogy because my sister

524
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: and I last last summer, we always go to New

525
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: York for our birthdays together. We went and saw what

526
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: the Harry Potter like. Oh it's so good, right, and yeah,

527
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: is wild? I mean the effects are so unbelievable. She's

528
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: a big Harry Potter fan. I'm not okay, but just

529
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: just spectacular effects.

530
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: It was just so wild. I couldn't believe it.

531
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: But there's this library in the play where it's a

532
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: magic library, where when one of the books is taken

533
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: out about a particular subject, the books around it actually

534
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: morph and change to reflect the same subject material. And

535
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: when I saw that, I immediately said, that's how the brain works.

536
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 1: The way the brain works is a kind of pseudo hypnosis.

537
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: Hypnosis is about context and context setting and narrowing of context.

538
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: All of us have such a wealth of historical, present,

539
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: and future thinking cognition in our brains, but when we

540
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: get anchored to a particular emotional state or topic, what

541
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: ends up happening is that the available topics around it

542
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: change in reference to how stressed we are. When we

543
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: are stressed. All the topics, all the books on the

544
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: shelf around that stress, are about that thing in how

545
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: to solve it. And actually, this is why stress enhances

546
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: our memory for solving that the things that can help

547
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: us solve that particular issue. But guess what is given

548
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: up all the other distantly or not so distant, really

549
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: related topics that lend themselves to creativity, to thinking about

550
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: novel combinations of things. This is why our friend Rick Rubin,

551
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: I think, is such a spectacularly creative individual, because he

552
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: spends a lot of time putting his brain and body

553
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: into a state in which he can remain in contact

554
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: with these other related or seemingly unrelated topics. Whereas when

555
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: we're in a stressed mode, when we have to problem solve,

556
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: when we are in vigilance, excuse me, we absolutely narrow

557
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: our cognitive fields, our visual fields, our auditory fields. We

558
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: limit what we think is possible. And so I think

559
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: great friendships, to bring it back to it, great relationships

560
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: of all kinds have enough safety and acceptance in them

561
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: that we can make our way through the practical constraints

562
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: of the relationship in the day, the week, and the year.

563
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: But that there's also a sense of creativity that there

564
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: are new elements allowed to be brought in because there's

565
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: enough safety and acceptance that we can turn down those

566
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: vigilance circuits absolutely.

567
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: How do we then with circuitry that's built for safety

568
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: and acceptance When you're talking about everything that you talk

569
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: about on the Hoopoman Lab, things that I talk about

570
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: from a maybe more spiritual wisdom perspective, they're all hard things,

571
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: and safety and acceptance generally in our current understanding of

572
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: those words, feels like comfort and security and easy and simple.

573
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden you're saying cold plunges,

574
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: infrared sauna, beginning of a circadian rhythm in the morning,

575
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 3: strength workouts, like all this other stuff, which initially is discomfort.

576
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: It's difficult, it's doing hard things. And I know this

577
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: was something you've been thinking about a lot, but I'm

578
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 3: just trying to make that connection. We're wired safety and acceptance,

579
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 3: but then all the stuff that's good for us seems

580
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: to be hard, at least in the beginning.

581
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question.

582
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: So the twist in all of this is that the

583
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: nervous system loves predictability, even if the predictability is arriving

584
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: through hard things. So I would say the major theme

585
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: of the Huberman Lab podcast has been tools we call

586
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: them protocols to anchor one's physiology in some predictable states.

587
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: I've never actually articulated that, but that's really what it's about.

588
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: So why you get sunlight in your eyes in the

589
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: morning because.

590
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: It wakes you up. I could tell you it increases.

591
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: Cortisol in a good way early in the day, that

592
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: it sets the time around your melatonin secretion for later

593
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: at night.

594
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: It helps you sleep at night.

595
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: And that's all true, but it creates a sense of predictability.

596
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: It allows you to know that for the next series

597
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: of hours, you're going to feel more alert, and at

598
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: night you're likely going to be able to fall asleep

599
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: more easily. Cold plunges, to my mind, people debate whether

600
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: or not they're valuable.

601
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: For combating inflammation.

602
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: They are, whether or not they're valuable for increasing metabolism,

603
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: probably not to a huge extent. But one thing we

604
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: know for sure is that they if done correctly, they're uncomfortable,

605
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: But after you get out, you have an increase in

606
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: these three neurochemicals that we call the catacholamines, dopamineupen effort

607
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: nor epinifferent and you feel more energized and slightly blissed.

608
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: Out for the next two to four hours.

609
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: It's a real effect because those are real chemicals, and

610
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: they've served that role for hundreds of thousands of years

611
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: in humans, and they will continue to serve that role

612
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: in humans. So the cold plunge is not so much

613
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: about pushing yourself as it is figuring out a way

614
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: that you can overcome a sense of stress and then

615
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: safely overcome a sense of kind of resistance to getting

616
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: in the thing, and then safely increase these neurochemicals that

617
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: then predictably shift your state to be more alert and

618
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: at the same time relaxed, little bit blissed out, if

619
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: we want to call it that. So you know, we

620
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: could list off protocol after protocol, right. If you tend

621
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: to eat meals at a consistent time plus or minus

622
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: an hour, doesn't matter if you're fast or not, you'll

623
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: tend to be hungry about fifteen minutes or so before

624
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: those meals. This is a wonderful thing because it increases

625
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: this predictability. This lends itself to safety and acceptance because

626
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: it allows you to have to not have to think

627
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: about a number of other things. So, you know, I've

628
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: been criticized and fairly so that, gosh, there's so many protocols.

629
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: How could anyone possibly do all these protocols? And the

630
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: truth is that many of the protocols are you know,

631
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: it's a buffet, and many of them, like how to

632
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: organize your workspace or when you travel for jet lag,

633
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: it's individual as to whether or not people.

634
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: Want to do them, and of course they're all optional.

635
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: You know, this isn't law.

636
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: So the idea, however, is that through some simple basic

637
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: behaviors viewing sunlight, a little bit of a walk after

638
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: a meal, a little bit of sunlight in the evening,

639
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: dimming the lights in the evening.

640
00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: You know, these are the base.

641
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: Eating it more or less consistent meal times and mostly

642
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: unprocessed or minimally processed foods for the majority of your

643
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: food intake. Doesn't matter if you're vegan, vegetarian, or otherwise,

644
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: you're going to feel much much better. And part of

645
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: the much much better is feeling more alert and more

646
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: vitality during the waking hours and better sleep at night,

647
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: which just kind of seesaw back and forth into feeling

648
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: better overall, and thereby free up energy for things like

649
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: sending the morning text.

650
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: You know.

651
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: So I think I'm very glad you brought this up

652
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: because I think people hear, oh goodness, another thing to do.

653
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: But if you think about it that way, it's going

654
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: to be self limiting. But if you think about it

655
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: as each one of these things takes a minimum amount

656
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: of time, and you can do the walk and sunlight

657
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: thing in the morning combined, and may if you miss

658
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: a day, no big deal, No big deal. These are slow,

659
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: integrative systems. Your system will recover just flying, but down

660
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: on a consistent basis. You're going to feel much better,

661
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: and you're going to have more energy, and you're going

662
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: to be able to think about what you might want

663
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: to do in your creative life and then do that.

664
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: You'll have the time and energy to think about what

665
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: you might want to do relationship wise, or friendship wise,

666
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: or building out these aspects of life. So it was

667
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: never the intention that people do so many things that

668
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: they don't have time for friendship or kids or relationship,

669
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: or that their entire family or relationship be centered around

670
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: these protocols. Rather, they're designed to be weaved into everyday life,

671
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: and sometimes when people experience pain points like people are

672
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: having attentional issues, or people are experiencing depression, or they

673
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: have a particular creative project and they want to tap

674
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: into like open monitoring meditation for instance, very different as

675
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, far better than I than other forms of meditation.

676
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: Then they can access those specific tools. But I don't

677
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: want to romanticize ancient times, but there was a lot

678
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: more predictability in some domains of life in ancient times,

679
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: assuming people were living in small villages, there was a

680
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: lot more predictability, but there was also a lack of predictability.

681
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: Someone could take off on a hunt or a gather,

682
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: and if they didn't come back, we might assume they're

683
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: never coming back. Two nights later, they might come back

684
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: and say that was a close call, or they come

685
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: back with a great yield.

686
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 2: We don't know, you know, we don't know.

687
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: What it was like, but you can be sure that

688
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: the same neural circuits that were responsible for stress and

689
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: lack of safety and therefore vigilance back then are very

690
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: much alive in our brains now. So again, the protocols

691
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: are designed to think about it like putting ingredients in

692
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: the refrigerator. You don't know what you're gonna cook, but

693
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: you have a lot more available to you as options

694
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: when you have when you know that all the basic

695
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: macronutrients are covered, everything's all the bases are covered, and

696
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: then you can start to think about what you would cook.

697
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: Whereas if you've ever arrived late in the city, you

698
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: get to your airbnb or your hotel and you see

699
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: like three or four things and one lousy pan and

700
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: thing one. Now you have to get the other kind

701
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 1: of creative. We have to adapt. And we've all done

702
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: the unhealthy option because that was the only thing, or

703
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: fasted because that was the healthiest option. So I think

704
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: what we're what we're getting to here is that the

705
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: human brain, like all animals, all animals need to know

706
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: where they're going to sleep that night. I mean a

707
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: dog goes into a new environment and is like trying

708
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: to figure out where's its spot. It's all about space.

709
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: You talk to any expert dog trainer, they'll tell you,

710
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: you know, it's all about negotiating space. Can they touch you?

711
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: Can they not touch you? Are they allowed to be

712
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: near you? Do they have to stay afar? Can they

713
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: go into every room?

714
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: You know?

715
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: You look at small children foraging an environment, however rambunctious

716
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: or calm, they're trying to figure out, like, what am

717
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: I allowed to do here? What am I not allowed

718
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: to do here? Sometimes by testing us as adults, we

719
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: do the exact same thing. We need to know where

720
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: we are, We need to orient in space and in time,

721
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: and then we need to know, like what's available to me?

722
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: Where am I going to stay tonight? Is one of

723
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: the most fundamental questions that we ask ourselves every single day,

724
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: except if you know where you're going to stay to night,

725
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: you don't ask yourself that, and you have mental real

726
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: estate to devote to other things. So what we're really

727
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: talking about here is is bookending the extremely basic fundamental

728
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: drives of the human brain for safety and acceptance. And

729
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: then at the very other end is these aspirational things

730
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: that we all seek, right, these notions of connectedness, of purpose,

731
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: of fulfillment of peace. Again, I'm borrowing from Martha's beautiful

732
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: list because I think it's so fundamental and it captures most,

733
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: if not all, of what we all seek. But I

734
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: think that we get very much caught up in the

735
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: how to reach goal A or be how to write

736
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: the book how to make the money, how to grow

737
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: a social media account, and we forget that at the

738
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: core of everything is our relationship to our surroundings, to

739
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: our inner landscape, into each other. And it always comes

740
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: back to safety and acceptance and where we feel uncomfortable,

741
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: where we feel like we didn't do things right or

742
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: others didn't do them right for us or to us.

743
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: It always boils down to those two things.

744
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, you reminded me of a question I have to

745
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 3: ask people, is what's your most repeated door? Because when

746
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: I was looking at the research on thinking, the idea

747
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: was that not only well, we're having a lot of

748
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 3: thoughts every day, but a lot of the thoughts we

749
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: have are repetitive. And going back to your point on protocols,

750
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 3: I feel like the reason we have repeated thoughts is

751
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: because we haven't yet built a protocol to help that

752
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: thought go away. So if you built a protocol, like

753
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: I know where I'm sleeping tonight, you're now no longer

754
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 3: having that thought of where am I sleeping tonight? And

755
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 3: we may be asking ourselves a very different thing today

756
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: because we figured out where to sleep, but we might

757
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 3: be thinking like how I'm going to pay that bill.

758
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 3: How am I gonna deal with that issue at home?

759
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: What should I say to my kid?

760
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: You know?

761
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 3: Whatever? It is, right, We all have different challenges. Everyone

762
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 3: has a different set of issues that they're struggling with

763
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: or dealing with. And because we haven't created a protocol,

764
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 3: we keep asking that question, and that question then creates

765
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 3: panic and creates anxiety and create stress and eventually could

766
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 3: lead to burnout if someone just keeps propelling that thought

767
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 3: and doesn't create a protocol. So I love the idea

768
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: that people shou build the protocol that links with their

769
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: most repeated thor rather than having to think, oh god,

770
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: I've got to do twenty five things, it's like, well, no,

771
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: what is the thing that is keeping you up at

772
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 3: night or what is the thing that's causing you the

773
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: greatest anxiety and try and solve for that. It's like,

774
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: if you're out of milk, you go and buy milk.

775
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: You don't say I've got to buy twenty five other things.

776
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 3: You just go filled a part of the refrigerator that's empty.

777
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 3: Does that align on Yeah?

778
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

779
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: I love what we're bridging over and over here is

780
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: the very practical foundational elements of safety with these aspirational things.

781
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a big believer in physiology driving mental states.

782
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: They go the other way to emotional states drive physiology.

783
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: It's bidirectional. Of course. One of the reasons why I've

784
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: been so emphatic about respiration protocols is a my lab

785
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: published a clinical trial on this in collaboration with David

786
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: Spiegel in our department of psychiatry, which basically could be

787
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: summarized the following way. If you emphasize exhales, you tend

788
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: to calm down, meaning you make them longer, more and intentional. Normally,

789
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: we inhale actively and we passively exhale. Other species do

790
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: it the other way around some other species. If you

791
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: deliberately emphasize your exhales, the duration, the intensity, or just

792
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: even control the exhale actively, your heart rate slows. When

793
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: we emphasize inhales, we don't necessarily have to do hyperventilation

794
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: or tumo breathing or anything like that. We could, but

795
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: those forms of breathing tend to bring up our activation state,

796
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: and they emphasize inhales, both by virtue of vigor duration

797
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: or just putting more conscious attention to them. And there's

798
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: a reason for this, it's called respiratory sinus a rhythmia.

799
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: It's an actual phenomenon that links the heart and the

800
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: vagus nerve and our diaphragm and our lungs.

801
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful mechanism.

802
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: When I'm overthinking at night and I want to fall asleep,

803
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: I start doing long axhale breathing through my mouth. Now,

804
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm out, I just fall asleep. I know that

805
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: because I wake up sometime later I realize it worked again.

806
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: Other times it doesn't work so well right. And one

807
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: of the most common questions I get is how to

808
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: turn off repetitive thoughts. Now there, it's a bit of

809
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: a skill because you know, frankly, repetitive thoughts oftentimes are

810
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: serving an adaptive purpose. But we can get stuck on them, right,

811
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: or they can get stuck in us. I don't know

812
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: which one it is. But one of the reasons why

813
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm such a strong believer in people doing a practice

814
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: like yoga nidra, which you know, and I must say,

815
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: I know I've upset to some extent some people by

816
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: coining something very similar non sleep deep rest or NSDR.

817
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: I want to make very clear that I have the

818
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: utmost respect for yoga nidra as an ancient practice. Neither

819
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: Yoga nidra, of course, nor NSDR or anything I developed.

820
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: It's just that NSDR.

821
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: It's a little bit different in that it removes intentions

822
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: and it tends to involve a little bit less of

823
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: some of the linking of chakras and things like that

824
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: that yoga nidra does. With no specific purpose in mind

825
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: behind designing that way except to be able to adapt

826
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: it to the laboratory context. Okay, what do we know

827
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: about Let's just call it it's original named yoga nidra.

828
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: The goal is to stay awake, to be conscious while

829
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: deliberately relaxing the body. That's a very useful practice feel

830
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: similar to meditation in a way, could be called a meditation,

831
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: but it has some distinct benefits. First of all, a

832
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: beautiful study that was done in Denmark I had a

833
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: medical school in Copenhagen showed that people that do a

834
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: yoga nidra practice get a sixty percent increase in baseline

835
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: dopamine levels in the basal ganglia brain area that's associated

836
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: with the preparation for movement and the withholding of movement.

837
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: So it essentially can be looked at as a practice

838
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: that changes neurochemicals in the brain that restore mental and

839
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: physical vigor. That's how I think of yoga nidra. It's

840
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: sort of like sleep. There are some stuff that he's emerging,

841
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: including some that I'm planning with doctor Matt Walker at Berkeley,

842
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: one of the pre eminent sleep researchers in the world,

843
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: that are going to explore whether or not little pockets

844
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 1: of the brain are actually sleeping or in rapid eye

845
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: movement sleep like states during yoga nidra.

846
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: If you think about rapid.

847
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: Eye movement sleep just as a very relevant aside, it's

848
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: a state in which the brain is very active and

849
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: the body is completely still, much like yoga nidra. Okay,

850
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: brain active, body still. Now, what's unique about yoga nidra

851
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: is that there's this instruction in the nidra if it's

852
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: a traditional one that talks about going from thinking and

853
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: doing to being and feeling. Okay, So let's step back

854
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: as neuroscientists when we say thinking is a lot about

855
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: anticipating future. It could be about thinking about the past,

856
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: it could be thinking about things that are happening now.

857
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: But it's a very four brain dependent process doing is

858
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: basal ganglia action generation withholding action and four brain circuitry

859
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: as well, you know, I should say prefrontal cortical circuitry

860
00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: as well.

861
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: Now being and feeling.

862
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: Now, this is starting to sound a little bit like

863
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: quote unquote softer language, but there's nothing soft about this language,

864
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: because if we just put a neuroscience lens on it,

865
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: we say, okay, what is that really about. That's about

866
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: bringing ourselves from exterroception monitoring of the external world beyond

867
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: the confines of our skin, to monitoring of the internal

868
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: world within the confines of our skin. And there's something

869
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: magical about shifting our perception to inter reception from our

870
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: skin inward in that it takes us out of thinking.

871
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: Whereas when we're monitoring the external world for reasons that

872
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: are sort of logical but a little bit harder to articulate,

873
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: then it's more about anticipating things, trying to figure out

874
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: what goes with what, what's separate from what. The moment

875
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: we get to the level of our skin and inward

876
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: we know what's what and what's separate from what.

877
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: It's just us inward. So there's one thing. Rarely do we.

878
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: Think, oh, here's my brain and here's my leg now

879
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: Ndra then steps us through that. And so what it

880
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: does is it brings all of our cognition into this

881
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: internal receptive mode and then boom, we are in this

882
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: mode of being and feeling. So I don't think of

883
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: being and feeling as turning off thinking. I think of

884
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: it as bringing thinking to the level of our sensation

885
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: of our body. Yoga nidra, I think, is perhaps the

886
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: most powerful practice for learning how to turn off one's thoughts.

887
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: And so when one steps back from the research literature

888
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: and says, Okay, what do we know for sure about

889
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: yoga nidra and SDR. We know that this can be

890
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: done for ten minutes, twenty minutes, thirty minutes, or an hour.

891
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: We know that it can very reliably improve levels of wakefulness, cognition,

892
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: and vigor post nidra. We know that it restores dopamine

893
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: levels to a market extent in the basal ganglia.

894
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 2: We know that the brain goes.

895
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: Into little pockets of sleep like states. This needs to

896
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: be explored further. And we know that it mimics rapid

897
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: eye movements sleep. And we know that people who do

898
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: it find it easier to make themselves fall back asleep

899
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: should they need, and they develop much stronger powers of

900
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: autonomic regulation, their ability to take themselves out of stress

901
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: if they need to. I mean, if ever, there was

902
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: a powerful practice, Yoga Nidra is that practice.

903
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 2: And so when I step back.

904
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,399
Speaker 1: From the landscape of practices that can help us turn

905
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 1: off thinking or etc.

906
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 2: This is probably a good time to just, you know,

907
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: mention that you know.

908
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Meditation I view as an exploration of one's own consciousness.

909
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: I also view it as a perceptual exercise, shifting one's

910
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 1: perception to a particular location as opposed to just wherever

911
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: the mind may take it. Put simply, it's far more

912
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: profound than that, as you know and as many know.

913
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: But meditation has been shown to reduce stress, improve focus,

914
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: improve memory. I'm thinking mainly of the studies by Wennie

915
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: Suzuki's lab at NYU. I'm thinking of the studies that

916
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: were done out of the University of Wisconsin that are

917
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: talked about in Altered States, which is a wonderful book,

918
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: and the work that you've talked about in your books.

919
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: When I think about Yogan Non Sleep, Deep Breast, it's

920
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: really about restoring mental and physical vigor and getting better

921
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: at regulating one's own autonomic internal kind of hinge, going

922
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: back and forth between sympathetic and parasympathetic, that you know,

923
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: kind of fight or flight and rest and digest, alert

924
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: and calm, learning how to adjust that in a conscious way.

925
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: And then when I think of practices like breath work,

926
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: well depends on the breath work. And then we can

927
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: simplify it by saying, when inhales are more vigorous and

928
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: made longer deliberately than exhales, heart rate goes up.

929
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: Alertness goes up.

930
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: When ex sales are made longer and more vigorous and

931
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: done deliberately, well, then heart rate tends to go down,

932
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: and we tend to shift more towards the state of calm.

933
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: And then, of course there's hypnosis, and hypnosis to me

934
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: is self hypnosis, which is a clinical tool that David

935
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: Spiegel and others around the world, but mainly David Spiegel

936
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: and his father popularized within the formal field of psychiatry,

937
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: and hypnosis is a combination of alertness and calm that

938
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 1: we know lends itself to neuroplaticity. What is hypnosis really for.

939
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: It's not meditation, it's not to calm down, is to

940
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: solve a specific problem, to quit smoking, to learn how

941
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: to regulate pain, to you know, any number of different

942
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: things that hypnosis has been shown in peer reviewed studies

943
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: to do. So when I step back, I say, okay, meditation,

944
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: non sleep, deep breast aka yoga nidra, I should say

945
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: yoga nidra aka non non sleep, deep breast breath work

946
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: and hypnosis. Well, now we have a kit of tools

947
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 1: that are available to us to adjust our internal state,

948
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: and any one of those could be used to turn

949
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: off thinking. But the most powerful one, in my opinion,

950
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: and by way of experience and sort of how I'm

951
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: viewing the research literature, I'm sure there are others out

952
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: there that would disagree with me, and that's fine, is

953
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: yoga nidra. If ever, there was a practice that I

954
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: wish every human being on the planet would do besides

955
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: go out in view morning sunlight, it would be yoga nidra.

956
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: And of course this has been available for thousands of years,

957
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: and unfortunately it has not gotten the traction worldwide that

958
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: I think it deserves, and especially at this time I'm

959
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: in human history, when the world seems so tense with

960
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: friction of all sorts of kinds, but also internal friction

961
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 1: for people, I think it's just, you know, it's something

962
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: that I really really want to shine a light on

963
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: as a tremendously beneficial tool for turning off thoughts when

964
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: it's necessary and for accessing you know, some people call

965
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: these atypical states, but most people go from sleep to

966
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: waking and sleep to waking without really an exploration of

967
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 1: what those different states are like. So, in any event,

968
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: forgive me for being long winded, but are those are

969
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: the tools that when I step back and I say,

970
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: where is there great neuroscience and physiology to support their use?

971
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: What are the specific uses that seem especially valuable for

972
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: one practice versus another? And how do these practices differ

973
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 1: because they often get conflated. Somebody starts breathwork and we think, oh,

974
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: it's this type of breath work or that type of

975
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: without thinking about what's being emphasized and where the heart

976
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: rate is going. Or you think meditation, and of course

977
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: there are many different kinds of meditation. Actually, I'd love

978
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: to know from you. I know of kind of traditional

979
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: third eye meditation, and I'm aware of open monitoring meditation.

980
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: What other sorts of meditation do you do.

981
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 3: As you mentioned this breath work, there's visualization and there's

982
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: mantra or sound. So the meditation on the repetition of sound,

983
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: whether that be natural sounds, whether it be instruments, or

984
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 3: whether it be the repetition of mantra in your own voice,

985
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 3: or the collective chanting, which it's done through ancient times,

986
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 3: of the collective chance of sacred sounds. It is considered

987
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 3: one of the forms of meditation. And it almost feels

988
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 3: like a humming, kind of cocoon effect of being kind

989
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 3: of surrounded by this sound that's repeated again and again

990
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: and again. So it can kind of get you into

991
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: that kind of submerged, immersive, drowning feeling that I think

992
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: most if they've done a sound bowl meditation, have experienced

993
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 3: some form of what that could feel like. And again

994
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 3: you're getting into that atypical state. But going back to

995
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 3: what you were saying, what really resonated for me and

996
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 3: what I've always appreciated about your work, Andrew, I said

997
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 3: this last time you came on the show, is this

998
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 3: connection between these ancient practices and the modern euroscience. To

999
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 3: back it up, like when you've talked about many many

1000
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 3: times about sunlight in the morning. I mean Suria numashkara,

1001
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: which I mentioned last time is sun salutations. That is

1002
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 3: the practice that you would do when you wake up

1003
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: in the morning and you salute the sun. And it

1004
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 3: was this idea of allowing the sunlight to enter it

1005
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: through your eyes. And now you're talking about yoga nedra

1006
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 3: at the end of the day to go to sleep again.

1007
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: To me, it's you've found.

1008
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 3: This way of not only broadcasting and helping people come

1009
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: to these practices, but helping them be translated into modern

1010
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 3: day language, which I think is so needed with a

1011
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: scientific backing and going back to yoga, I can personally say,

1012
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 3: just from a personal practice point of view, I had

1013
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: a surgery two years ago, and I was in so

1014
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 3: much physical pain during that first month of recovery. The

1015
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 3: only way I could go to sleep was through yoga

1016
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: nidra because the thoughts of pain and of stress and

1017
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 3: of potential redamage or whatever it may have been, were

1018
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: so high that that state could only be lowered through

1019
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: yoga nidra. And when I'm jet lagged and I'm traveling

1020
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 3: across the world, yoga nedras might go to to be

1021
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 3: able to switch off in a new country when I'm like, gosh,

1022
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to be up all night, will I make

1023
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 3: it to my work thing tomorrow. Yoga nidra completely allows

1024
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 3: me to remove those thoughts and allow myself to fall asleep.

1025
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 3: So I use it all the time, and I couldn't

1026
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: encourage it. I'm so glad that you're broadcasting and helping

1027
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 3: people understand the science behind it, because, yeah, these ancient

1028
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 3: practices make sense, but they need a new language and

1029
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 3: a new translation today.

1030
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yoga nidra has such similarity to rapid eye movement

1031
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: sleep as far as we know, it's not the exact

1032
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: same brain state, but the similarity again is mind alert,

1033
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: body still, which is exactly what happens during rapid I

1034
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: movement sleep. And we know rapid eye movement sleep is

1035
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: essential for formation of memories, for uncoupling of negative emotions

1036
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: from previous day experiences. It tends to be more enriched

1037
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: in the later parts of the night and so on.

1038
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: For me, yoga nidra is the practice to do when

1039
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning but I don't feel

1040
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: completely rested. I'll do anywhere from ten minutes to thirty

1041
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: minutes of that and then in the afternoon instead of

1042
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: a nap, I'll do Nidra and sometimes I'll fall asleep, admittedly,

1043
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: and then if I wake up in the middle of

1044
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: the night, Nidra is my solution. I think that mind

1045
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: active body still is such an interesting and frankly unusual

1046
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: state unless we're in rapid movement sleep that most people,

1047
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: until they try it, can't really appreciate the immense value

1048
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: that it brings. But the beautiful thing is it works

1049
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: the first time, and it works every time. Our mutual

1050
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: friend Krubin, we're both lucky enough to know him and

1051
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: to spend a little bit of time with him. And

1052
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: Rick has a practice that he does. I know because

1053
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: I went and visited him last summer and he would

1054
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: just sit there with his eyes closed, in his body

1055
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: very still. And at some point I asked him what

1056
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: are you doing and he said, well, I'm thinking. And

1057
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: I said, what's the benefit of doing this, you know?

1058
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: And he said, well, I come up with ideas this way,

1059
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, that's interesting, and it immediately rung

1060
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: A bell I had a guest on my podcast. It

1061
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: was actually the first guest ever on my podcast. Professor

1062
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,320
Speaker 1: by the name of doctor carldis Roth. He's an MDN

1063
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: a PhD. He's the world's arguably top bioengineer in the

1064
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: field of neuroscience. He's also a psychiatrist, so he sees patients,

1065
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: and he also has raised five children. He's one of

1066
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: these feetoms. His wife's centurologists at Stanford that you know.

1067
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: He is a remarkable person, very deep thinker. And I

1068
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 1: was talking to him on the podcast and he said

1069
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: that he has a practice whereby at night, after his

1070
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: kids go to sleep, he sits at the table or

1071
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 1: on the couch, stills his body completely and forces himself

1072
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: to think in complete sentences for about an hour. And

1073
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, WHOA, that's a wildly unusual practice.

1074
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: And I said, what is it about? And he said, well,

1075
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: that's how I structure my ideas. That's where new ideas

1076
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: come to me. So Carl's doing that, Rick's doing that.

1077
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: You start looking back through history, you find out that

1078
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 1: Einstein had a walk in practice.

1079
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 2: That then he would.

1080
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: My father's a theoretical physicist, so this is where I

1081
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: learned this.

1082
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 2: But presumably this is verifiable.

1083
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure someone will tell me it's not true, but

1084
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: enough people have told me it is that I'm inclined

1085
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: to at least describe it where he would walk, then

1086
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: stop and allow his thoughts to continue as if emotion,

1087
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: mind active, body still, and then repeat. So this is

1088
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: a very unusual state of mind that I think has

1089
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 1: real value. And we know in sleep rap an eye movement,

1090
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: sleep in the associated dreams, or where we work out

1091
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: a lot of novel solutions to hard daytime problems. And

1092
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: I can confidently say that the field of neuroscience can

1093
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: say so much more about the different states of the

1094
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: mind in sleep than we can about the states of

1095
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: the mind in waken.

1096
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: It's kind of amazing. It's twenty twenty four.

1097
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: We know all this information about different brain areas, what

1098
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: happens when you stimulate this, these neurochemicals in that, and

1099
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 1: yet we have words stage one, two, three, four, rapidi

1100
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: movement sleep, slow wave sleep. We have real mechanistic understanding

1101
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: of the states of the mind and body in sleep,

1102
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 1: and very very little language to describe like the state

1103
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: of mind that we happen to be in right now.

1104
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: So we can talk about hypnosis, which is a narrowed

1105
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: context calm but alert, in which neuroplasticity brain changes are

1106
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: more available to us. This is supported by clinical and

1107
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: research data. We can talk about being attentive, we can

1108
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: talk about being stressed, but if you think about a

1109
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: it's not like very crude understanding. And so when I

1110
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: think about practices like body still, mind active, or even

1111
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, something that I found immensely beneficial. Every Sunday,

1112
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: I try and take a long hiker walk, and I

1113
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: try and just let my mind spool out whatever ideas

1114
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: it happens to have. You know, I like to think

1115
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: it's accessing some subconscious that's been you know, kind of

1116
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: packed with ideas and experiences during the week.

1117
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: But what do we call that? I call it a

1118
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 2: walk or a run or a hike.

1119
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: But I think that the different states of mind that

1120
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: we can go into during the day need more attention,

1121
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: not just from neuroscience researchers, but from people in the

1122
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: fields of meditation, people in the fields of health and wellness.

1123
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: You know, what are the different states of mind? And

1124
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: so I would say that the last you know, really forty,

1125
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: but you know, thirty mainly, But five or six years

1126
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: of my life I've been a public educator in the

1127
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: realm of trying to teach people ways to harness their

1128
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: physiology in ways that serve them best for mental health

1129
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: and physical health and performance. But I'm now starting to

1130
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: get very, very curious about how to evolve this thing

1131
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: that we call brain states, and our understanding of not

1132
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: just through language, but really understanding how to bring our

1133
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: mind into sharp focus, how to be in the best

1134
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: state of mind for connectedness, when to turn off empathy,

1135
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: when to turn on empathy. I mean, these are all

1136
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: circuitries within us that are possible, and of course we

1137
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: have variation among us as a species as to whether

1138
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: or not we lean more towards logical thinking or empathic

1139
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, affiliative thinking, these kinds of things. But you know,

1140
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: I really believe that you know, people like you Jay

1141
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: have an important role to play, and that the conversation

1142
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: between neuroscientists, people who have knowledge of meditative practices like yourself,

1143
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: there's real value in the overlap. And you said, you

1144
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: know that you were grateful that we're talking about these things,

1145
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: ancient practices and what they might mean if I've learned anything,

1146
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: And I think I'm finally old enough that I can

1147
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: make that statement if I've learned anything in my life, right, hopefully,

1148
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: my life will continue, but if it, you know, should

1149
00:59:55,720 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 1: I go someplace else before I anticipate. I think it's

1150
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: become very clear to me that whether or not you're

1151
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: talking about yoga tradition, or you're talking about neuroscience, or

1152
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: you're talking about traditional medicine or some of the more

1153
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: alternative medicines, the overlap in those Venn diagrams is where

1154
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: the real money is. And I don't necessarily mean financial gain.

1155
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean that's where the great ideas are. So I'm

1156
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: perfectly happy to talk about yoga, NIDRA, NSDR, brain circuits,

1157
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: associated dopamine, basal ganglia, because ultimately, if I'm here to

1158
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: do anything, it's to try and bridge these silos and

1159
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: bring people's awareness to the fact that we've all been

1160
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: talking about the same thing, and we're all seeking the

1161
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: same things. Safety, acceptance, creativity, you know, these connectedness, purpose fulfillment.

1162
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: These loftier ideals start with having our physiology in a

1163
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: place where we can.

1164
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 2: Reliably move forward not have to worry about.

1165
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Certain things, and then a little space opens up and

1166
01:00:58,200 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But I think there's a

1167
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: real calling now for anyone that's interested in the brain,

1168
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 1: anyone that's interested in health and anyone that's interested in

1169
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: humanity to really start paying attention to the overlap in

1170
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: the ven diagrams between rem sleep and waking states, between

1171
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: ancient practices and modern practices. And I should warn that

1172
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 1: that person or those people, You're going to take some heat,

1173
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: you know. But ultimately, the ability to go between these

1174
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: silos and to bridge them, as we're trying to do

1175
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: now and hopefully making some ground in this I believe

1176
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: we are is going to serve humanity very very well,

1177
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: because it's just been too long whereby people are holding

1178
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: back knowledge. The secret of some chemical, the secret of

1179
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: some practice, there's no secret. The secret is they all

1180
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: work to some extent. The question is what are the commonalities,

1181
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: what are the mechanisms, and what are the practices that

1182
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: allow people to bring their brain and body into the

1183
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: state that best serves them and other people. And it's accessible.

1184
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: But we have to have a slightly open mind about

1185
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: the language. We have to give up the ego saying oh,

1186
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: that's my practice, that that breathwork is the domain of

1187
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,479
Speaker 1: my school or my thing. And frankly those arguments aren't

1188
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: working anymore anyway, because information is so freely available on

1189
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: the Internet. So in any case, there's a little bit

1190
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: of editorializing there, I realize, but it's also a calling

1191
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: to anyone that's interested in the mind and in the

1192
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: brain that you know, neuroscience is no longer the unique

1193
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: domain of neuroscientists, and I know that some of my

1194
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: neuroscience colleagues are like, oh boy, you know here he is,

1195
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: just as if it's accessible to anybody. I'm not saying

1196
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 1: you can be a neurosurgeon if you aren't trained in neurosurgery, right,

1197
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: but I'm not saying that you can be an advanced

1198
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: meditative practitioner without putting in the hours. What I am

1199
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: saying is that there's overlap in the ven diagrams of

1200
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: these different fields. Sure, and the more collegiality, the faster

1201
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: and further we're going to go as a species.

1202
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 3: Well, I think it goes back to what you were

1203
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 3: just saying a few moments ago that we only have

1204
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 3: a language for and I'm going to an umbrella term here,

1205
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 3: but we only have language for the extremes of experience.

1206
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 3: So what you were saying is when you're on a

1207
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: hiker a walk, you don't have a term for what

1208
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 3: that feels like, because it's not an extreme of being

1209
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 3: asleep or being awake. It's kind of like this in

1210
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 3: between cerebral state that we don't have a language for.

1211
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,959
Speaker 3: And I think that on a micro level makes sense

1212
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 3: to all of us, where we have words like I'm

1213
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 3: angry or I'm sad or I'm upset, but our word

1214
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 3: for is okay, right, Like our word for okay is okay,

1215
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 3: which isn't a great descriptor of how we actually feel.

1216
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 3: And so we're only good at describing things in extremes

1217
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 3: on a micro level. And then if you zoom out

1218
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 3: and take that on a macro level, that translates as well,

1219
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 3: where we're only good at dealing with these extremes. And

1220
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 3: when you're saying ven diagram, it's saying, well, get away

1221
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 3: from the extremes and look at the overlaps. But I

1222
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 3: think we as a society on a micro level and

1223
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 3: at a macro level, have only learned how to deal

1224
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 3: with the pendulum swing on either side, all the extremes

1225
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 3: on either side, and therefore anything in the middle or

1226
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 3: the gray starts to feel uncomfortable, starts to feel It's

1227
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 3: not easy to say whether it's right or wrong, and

1228
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 3: therefore it's like, well, we're not even going to go there.

1229
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 3: And I think anyone that I've spoken to at the

1230
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 3: top of their field, you being one of them, anyone

1231
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 3: we've ever had on the show, is far more interested

1232
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 3: in the gray, is far more in the gray, and

1233
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 3: is spending far more time exploring thought that is unclear, uncomfortable,

1234
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 3: and uncertain, because that's where life really has lived, in

1235
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 3: the unpredictable. That's the adventure, that is the adventure, that

1236
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 3: is the adventure. And I feel that that's why humans

1237
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 3: want to go to space, Like why is everyone fascinated

1238
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 3: by space? Because it's not clear as to what it

1239
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 3: is and what's out there and where it is. And

1240
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 3: of course not many people will get to go to space,

1241
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 3: at least for now, but the idea being the same,

1242
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 3: that there has to be that curiosity from all of

1243
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 3: us to say, oh, where where are we in the

1244
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: same place? Like where are we connected on our idea?

1245
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 3: And where are there things that aren't similar but maybe

1246
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 3: they're connected in a different way. And I think being

1247
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 3: able to oscillate between connectivity and disconnectedness is a need

1248
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 3: for the brain and the mind as opposed to this

1249
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 3: feeling of again, it goes back to what we started

1250
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 3: with safety and acceptance makes us feel today that you

1251
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 3: can't allow yourself to engage in an idea that doesn't

1252
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 3: fully connect with yours because that feels unsafe.

1253
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,600
Speaker 1: Right, especially right now, right things feel very polarized.

1254
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 3: Correct.

1255
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, I'm putting in a very strong vote for

1256
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: the League of Reasonable People, which is hopefully everybody, right, Like,

1257
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound overly sentimental, but like I

1258
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm just too emotional lately, but I am

1259
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: so pained by the amount of fighting that I see

1260
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 1: that I know will not result in any anything. It's

1261
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: not going to solve the problem for either side, right.

1262
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: I guess at forty nine, I feel old enough to

1263
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: say this, Like, I still have hope, but that's obviously

1264
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: not a solution. I think that when we really get

1265
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: down to the neuroscience of self understanding, when people really

1266
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 1: start to understand that the human brain is a magnificent

1267
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: machine and organ but that it has limitations, and we

1268
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: can start to understand our own limitations, you know that

1269
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: it can take us just up to this point, but

1270
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: not further, and that we can rely on healthy collective

1271
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: thinking healthy collective thinking to get us over these divides.

1272
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: I think that's when we're finally going to evolve as

1273
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,919
Speaker 1: a species. I really do, when we start being able

1274
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: to exit our own brain and our group think to

1275
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: be able to really come to solutions, because often we

1276
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: just think in terms of compromise and conflict, which are

1277
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: essential things to think about, But ultimately, understanding the limits

1278
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: of our cognit and how emotion drives cognition is really

1279
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: how we're going to be able to evolve our beliefs

1280
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: about what's possible. And by the way, that's not meant

1281
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 1: to just be a bunch of aspirational word salad. That's

1282
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 1: like a real possibility if we can just have the

1283
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: self reflection to understand we know certain things, we believe

1284
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: certain things, but that this neural architecture that we call

1285
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: our brain is limited in the extent to which it

1286
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: can see into the future and make the best decisions

1287
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: for everybody. We operate thinking that, but that's not how

1288
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: it works. And of course we can't look to any

1289
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: one individual to solve the problem for everybody, now, will

1290
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: it be AI?

1291
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1292
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 1: That involves a lot of trust in AI and these

1293
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: large language models are trained in many ways the same

1294
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: way that a neural network. It trains itself up how

1295
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: a young brain develops and makes sense of the world.

1296
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: So I don't have any immediate solutions. What I do

1297
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: have is a piece of neuroscience knowledge that was at

1298
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: least new to me that most neuroscientists aren't aware of.

1299
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: But I think this is one of the most important

1300
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: discoveries in the last one hundred years of neuroscience. It's

1301
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: a collection of studies on an area of the brain

1302
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: called the anterior mid singulate cortex. Most people have never

1303
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: heard of this brain area, including many neuroscientists, doctor neurosurgeon.

1304
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: They know where it is talktor a neuroscientists unless they

1305
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: teach neuroanatomy, which I happened to. Most don't know where

1306
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: it is in the brain, and most didn't know what

1307
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,720
Speaker 1: it did because it hadn't been explored. And then a

1308
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: colleague of mine at Stamford School of Medicine named Joe

1309
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 1: Parvezi did an incredible study where he was doing neurosurgery

1310
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: and stimulating different brain areas as a means to try

1311
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: and find the location where he needed to do the surgery,

1312
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: and he stumbled upon an area called the anterior mid

1313
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: singulate cortex, where if he stimulated with an electrode, people

1314
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: because they were awake during the neurosurgery, would report feeling

1315
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: as if there was some conflict pressing on them. Some

1316
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 1: one't even described as I feel like I'm driving into

1317
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 1: a storm, but I feel ready.

1318
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 2: I can do this.

1319
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: Others reported a different set of words, but the words

1320
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,760
Speaker 1: essentially converged around the same set of subjective experiences, which

1321
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: are I feel challenged, but I can do it. It's

1322
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,759
Speaker 1: kind of forward center of mass. And then other studies

1323
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 1: separate laboratories discovered that people that take on a new

1324
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 1: practice that's challenging for them, their anterior mid singulate cortex

1325
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:20,799
Speaker 1: grows in volume. Other people who fail to successfully engage

1326
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: in a regular challenging activity, the anterior mid singulate cortex

1327
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: didn't increase in volume in the same way.

1328
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 2: So very interesting brain structure.

1329
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: And there's I would say about a dozen or so

1330
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: really quality studies in humans, a bunch of animal models,

1331
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 1: but they're a bunch in humans that point to the

1332
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: intermid singulate cortex as a site in the brain associated

1333
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: with the feeling of tenacity and will power.

1334
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: To push through.

1335
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: It's heavily interconnected with the dopamine reward system, heavily connected

1336
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: frankly with a lot of different brain areas. It's a

1337
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:50,640
Speaker 1: hub for a lot of inputs and outputs. So what

1338
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 1: do we know about the interimid singulate cortex. Perhaps most

1339
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: interesting of all is that this is the brain area

1340
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: that seems to preserve its size and even grow in

1341
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 1: size in what are called superagers. Superagers are people that

1342
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 1: maintain their cognition later into life. These are people that

1343
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: don't undergo the normal age related decline in cognition separate

1344
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 1: from Alzheimer's type dementia. You know, everybody as they get

1345
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 1: older develops less working memory, the ability to keep ideas

1346
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: in mind in the short term. Superagers seem to overcome

1347
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: all that and they live longer. So you could say, well,

1348
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: this is a case of reverse causality. They live longer,

1349
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: so they have a bigger brain area called the interim

1350
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:31,719
Speaker 1: and singular cortex. We don't really know what the direction

1351
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: of causality is. Could just be correlation, but it all

1352
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: gets ultra interesting when you start to tack together willpower

1353
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: the taking on of new things, learning things in neuroplasticity

1354
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: and life span. And it may be that that quad

1355
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: fecta represents what we think of as the will to

1356
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: live is associated with an intense curiosity and desire to

1357
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: bring in new ideas and modes of thinking. And new

1358
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,759
Speaker 1: ideas and modes of thinking then feedback on our feelings

1359
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: of how we could gain reward internal reward of course,

1360
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: dopamine being the universal currency of reward as a means

1361
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: to move forward.

1362
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 2: What does this mean?

1363
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,800
Speaker 1: This means that everybody I believe can become a better

1364
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: human being by taking on challenges. What is a challenge

1365
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 1: that can grow the inter amid singulate cortex. Well, unfortunately,

1366
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: it's a challenge that you don't want to engage in.

1367
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: So if you love running, it's not going to do it.

1368
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: If you love resistance ring, it's not going to do it.

1369
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: If you don't want to meditate in the morning, and

1370
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: you do five minutes or ten minutes of meditation, then

1371
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: you just enhanced the activation of your inter amid singulate cortex.

1372
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: So it's about it's not just about doing hard things,

1373
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: it's about really pushing through resistance. And the reason I

1374
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: bring this up now as opposed to a discussion about

1375
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,879
Speaker 1: like how to get more tenacious or have stronger willpower.

1376
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 2: It will do that.

1377
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: Okay, we know that when the inter amid singulate cortex

1378
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: gets bigger, it translates to a lot of different areas

1379
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: of challenge, not just the area in which you challenged it.

1380
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: The reason is, I believe that this lofty notion of

1381
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 1: humans evolving to more collective thinking, to embracing new ways

1382
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: to bridge divides that harm human beings at scale or

1383
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 1: just locally, is going to emerge through only through the

1384
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 1: willingness to embrace the internal friction that is hearing things

1385
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: and seeing things that we don't like and being able

1386
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: to take a stance of adaptive response whatever that is. Now,

1387
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: of course, there are things that we hear and see

1388
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,680
Speaker 1: and don't like that activate enough of a sense of

1389
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: injustice in us that that's all it does. It just

1390
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: brings us to the point of wanting to impart justice.

1391
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: But what I'm talking about here differences in opinion, strongly

1392
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 1: polarized views that lead to all sorts of things, as

1393
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: we know, good and bad and everything in between. And

1394
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: if people had the capacity to feel that friction and

1395
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:01,519
Speaker 1: to stay in a mode of some open cognition. I

1396
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,599
Speaker 1: think we would come up with novel solutions. I really

1397
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: think the next iteration of human beings is collective consciousness.

1398
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: You know, it sounds lofty, sounds woo, but it's basically

1399
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,759
Speaker 1: lots of minds working together, even minds that oppose one another.

1400
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: In ideology, as a means to find out novel solutions

1401
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: to hard problems that vex us all and that in

1402
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: some cases really harm us all.

1403
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 2: It's it's a.

1404
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 1: Real thing with real possibility. But it's going to require

1405
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: that we all get not necessarily tougher, but that we

1406
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: get more resilient at the level of being able to tolerate

1407
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 1: internal states that normally would impede adaptive thinking.

1408
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, and and the ability to engage in uncomfortable thinking.

1409
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 3: And I love that definition that you gave. I saw

1410
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 3: this brilliant quote the other day on social media, and

1411
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 3: it is from a Christian page or post, and it

1412
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 3: said the essence of Christianity is not learning to love Jesus,

1413
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 3: but learning to love Judas. And I was thinking how

1414
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 3: brilliant that was because it goes back to that point

1415
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:14,360
Speaker 3: of what's uncomfortable, like it's easy to love the good

1416
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 3: person it's learning to love or understand, at least the

1417
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 3: person who may have done, you know, something that you

1418
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 3: didn't recognize or didn't understand or didn't fully connect with.

1419
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 3: And I think often we see that and we think, oh,

1420
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,240
Speaker 3: but then there's no accountability, there's not this, there's no that.

1421
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 3: But really, what we're saying is are we willing to

1422
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,960
Speaker 3: do as you said, the most challenging thing, which is

1423
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 3: something you don't enjoy doing. It's not something you're excited by.

1424
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: If you're enjoying the challenge, it's no longer the challenge

1425
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 3: right if you're it's always like I remember a training

1426
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 3: and conditioning coach used to tell me, like Jay, if

1427
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 3: you're sitting in the cold plunge, just to get your

1428
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 3: minutes up so you can tell someone how long you

1429
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 3: sat in there. He goes, then that means it wasn't

1430
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 3: hard beyond that certain point. It was like, you should

1431
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 3: get out once it's easy because it's not having the

1432
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 3: effect you wanted to have.

1433
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 2: That's right, and no longer an adaptive stimulus.

1434
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 3: Correct?

1435
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,639
Speaker 2: Can I offer an alternative protocol?

1436
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 3: Please?

1437
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: People always ask me how cold should the cold plunge

1438
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: be or the cold shower and how long should I

1439
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: stay in? And it's so variable depending on the person,

1440
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: the time of day. Obviously, only do what's safe, right,

1441
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: So don't go so cool that you can you can

1442
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: get a cardiovascular effect that's not good. But it's very simple. Actually,

1443
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: if you want it to translate into the real world

1444
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,280
Speaker 1: in the best way, you ask yourself right before you

1445
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: get in, on a scale of one to ten, how

1446
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: badly do I not want to get in? And I

1447
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: would say that if it's five to ten, well that's

1448
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: a wall. If it's anywhere in the fire, that that's

1449
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: one wall you have to get over. So then you

1450
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: get in, and then at some point there will be

1451
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 1: the desire to get out. That's the second wall. Maybe

1452
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 1: it comes within five seconds, maybe it comes within twenty seconds,

1453
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 1: that's the second wall. So what I would do is

1454
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: count walls. What are the quote unquote walls. The walls

1455
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: are waves of adrenaline being released into your body. And

1456
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: sometimes they are very close together, those waves, and sometimes

1457
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 1: they're more distantly spaced apart. Now, of course, at some

1458
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: point you go numb and then you don't feel them anymore.

1459
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: We don't suggest that, but if you think to yourself, gosh, today,

1460
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 1: I really don't want to get in.

1461
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 2: That wall is a really tall wall.

1462
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: Well, just getting in for fifteen twenty seconds is going

1463
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: to accomplish something meaningful for this anterimid singulate cortex. It's

1464
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: going to accomplish something meaningful for the adrenaline release that

1465
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: you're going to experience. So it's less about the temperature.

1466
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the temperature plays a role than it

1467
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 1: is your subjective relationship to the whole thing. For instance,

1468
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: if you do cold exposure at night when you're tired,

1469
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: it's a far and away different experience than in the

1470
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: morning after going for a run and you're too warm.

1471
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 1: So I can't say forty five degrees fahrenheit for ninety seconds,

1472
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 1: although if you want to start there, that's fine, provided it.

1473
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 2: Safe for you.

1474
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,600
Speaker 1: But as you watch these walls of adrenaline come at you,

1475
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: as it were, pay attention to what they feel like.

1476
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 1: That's what you'll recognize outside the ice bath. Yeah, in

1477
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 1: a hard conversation, it's not that you can make yourself

1478
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:05,600
Speaker 1: so resilient that your adrenaline system doesn't work. It's that

1479
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: you learn to recognize the state of having adrenaline in

1480
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 1: your system and staying calm. And then I actually had

1481
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 1: this happen the other day. I was in a really

1482
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: hard yesterday, a hard conversation something first thing in the morning.

1483
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 1: It was like, wait, what seriously misunderstanding hard conversation? And

1484
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: I remember, here we are, our voices are going up.

1485
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: We weren't yelling, but like it was a peaceful morning

1486
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 1: until that moment, and you could kind of feel the

1487
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: energy in the room going up. And I was thinking

1488
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: to myself, Okay, how am I And I thought, Oh,

1489
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: this is like a wall in the thing. And I said,

1490
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: and I said, because we have this language at home.

1491
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: I said, I feel like there's a wall of adrenaline

1492
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: hitting us. Whether we both started laughing, and then we

1493
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,759
Speaker 1: kind of reverted to what we were doing and then

1494
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: we calmed down, and you know, we talk about taking breaks,

1495
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 1: and that's wonderful. It's a wonderful tool that you talked

1496
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: about in your book on relationships. There's so many valuable

1497
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: tools in there. By the way, it's like, thank you

1498
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,320
Speaker 1: for writing that book, so valuable.

1499
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 2: Everyone should read.

1500
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: It should be standard curriculum, standard curriculum in every school,

1501
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: in every home. I really mean that Jay doesn't tell

1502
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: me to say this, I really mean this, I really

1503
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 1: truly mean it. Well, it's entirely appropriate because it's true.

1504
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 1: But noticing those walls of adrenaline and realizing that when

1505
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: we're in those adrenaline filled states, our cognition is shifted.

1506
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: We don't have solutions that we had five minutes ago.

1507
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 1: So learning to watch those pass in the cold plunge,

1508
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 1: in the cold shower, on a hard run or whatever

1509
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 1: it is, but the cold seems to be the universal

1510
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: stressful stimulus for everybody is so valuable more than marking off,

1511
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen minutes or five minutes in the cold plunge,

1512
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: and some days it's fifteen seconds, sometimes it's thirty. And

1513
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:50,679
Speaker 1: for somebody learning the cold plunge, it's like, hey, can

1514
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: you just even get near the thing or in it?

1515
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: And I think there's real value there. Yeah, So in

1516
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 1: any event, But.

1517
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 3: I know, I love that translation into real life because

1518
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 3: I think what's happened is we're dealing with a lot

1519
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:07,759
Speaker 3: of everyday things with so much pain that that pain

1520
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 3: is then creating more pain for us for others, and

1521
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 3: we never end this, or we create this never ending

1522
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:18,759
Speaker 3: cycle and loop for ourselves and others where we stay

1523
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 3: in the pain. And what we're all saying is what

1524
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,479
Speaker 3: does it take. Just as we have to learn to

1525
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 3: sit in that cold and regulate ourselves and adapt, what

1526
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 3: does it take to sit in the pain outside of

1527
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 3: the tub, regulate ourselves, rise to a place of peace,

1528
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 3: and then respond and then get together. And as you said,

1529
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 3: the League of reasonable the real league of reasonable people,

1530
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 3: Like I think we'd all aspire towards that. I think

1531
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 3: when I hear that, I think we all go. I

1532
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 3: think I'm a reasonable person. I think most of us

1533
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 3: would say that.

1534
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:50,519
Speaker 2: I think it lives in all of us.

1535
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a brain state that takes certain things

1536
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: to get to on a regular basis. I mean, there's

1537
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 1: some people that perhaps are outside the margins for which

1538
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: participation in the League of Reasonable People is impossible. But

1539
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,560
Speaker 1: even as I say that, you know, one thing that

1540
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: I've tried to do as I get older is to

1541
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: limit cynicism. You know, in my home growing up that

1542
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: there were many beautiful emotions and concepts and things I

1543
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: was exposed to by virtue of the wonderful people that

1544
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: my parents were. They had flaws like everybody else. But

1545
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:22,839
Speaker 1: one of the things that I've really tried to discard

1546
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, is cynicism. It's one of the

1547
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 1: things that my sister and I talk a lot about,

1548
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: like it never served anyone well to be cynical. You

1549
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 1: can be critical and discerning, but cynical doesn't accomplish anything

1550
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 1: except to separate us from people. That's my belief. And

1551
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to encourage people to be soft in

1552
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: a way that's unsafe for them. Like I said, be discerning.

1553
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 1: You know, safety is important. But cynicism, I don't know.

1554
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 2: What it is.

1555
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 1: It's like an ego fed negativity that sort of implies

1556
01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 1: one is better than other people, but it actually is

1557
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 1: usually the opposite. It usually comes from a place of

1558
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: deep insecurity, right. It's a very dismissive stance. And so

1559
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: I almost caught myself a second ago saying, oh, you know,

1560
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 1: making a kind of joke about what's a cynical joke about? Well,

1561
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: there are probably people who can't. I actually believe that

1562
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: we are all capable of having access to this reasonable

1563
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 1: feature within ourselves. But it involves a state of calm,

1564
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: a feeling of safety, and you know, I guess you know,

1565
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 1: laced into everything I'm saying today is is it is a.

1566
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 2: Kind of a hope and an aspiration.

1567
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: You know, I've kind of gotten to the point now

1568
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 1: where I feel like, if I don't say it now,

1569
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 1: what am I going to say it? And how old

1570
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: do you have to be? I used to think you

1571
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 1: had to be forty years old to write a book.

1572
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 1: I thought that, I thought I have to be forty

1573
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 1: years old to write a book, and I realized that's ridiculous.

1574
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: People much younger than forty write amazing books, amazing and

1575
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: important books. And then I thought, well, how old do

1576
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 1: you have to be in order to have had enough

1577
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: life experience to be able to say things that are

1578
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 1: aspirational about how you'd like to see the world where

1579
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: people change for the better. And you know, I've decided

1580
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: that the age on that is is one day, you know,

1581
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: like one day. So this is a bit of an

1582
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: encouragement for people out there. If you have ideas about

1583
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 1: ways that you and others can be better to really

1584
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 1: like write them down and evolve them right that they

1585
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,599
Speaker 1: often need some evolution to be able to be received

1586
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 1: in the right way, But then share those I was

1587
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 1: thinking a moment ago, I wanted your opinion on this

1588
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 1: so in thinking about emotional interaction and the ways in

1589
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: which the world can be beautiful or challenging depending on

1590
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: the energy that's around us. I once read, I forget

1591
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: his name, so forgive me. He's an investor. I think

1592
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 1: it was on the Tim Ferriss podcast, A very successful investor,

1593
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: young guy. I think he lived in Trucky, of all places.

1594
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,799
Speaker 1: He once said, you know, email is a public post

1595
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 1: to do list. And it completely changed in that one

1596
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: moment the way that I thought about email, because the

1597
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 1: emails are useful, but then I realized, oh yeah, I'm

1598
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: like going in there. It's like all these things I

1599
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:05,680
Speaker 1: need to do. And when I started my laboratory, I

1600
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: knew I had two major challenges. One, get grants so

1601
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 1: I could do the work you need money to do research,

1602
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: publish great papers. And that meant had to interact with

1603
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,800
Speaker 1: my lab into a bunch of other things. Other things

1604
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: were important, teaching included, but those were the main ones.

1605
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 1: Email was a public post to do list, so I

1606
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:24,799
Speaker 1: needed to be very careful in terms of my interaction

1607
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: with email. Nowadays, I feel like social media is a

1608
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 1: public not necessarily projection, but evacuation of emotion. So when

1609
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 1: I go on to social media in the morning. If

1610
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm not careful, they really careful and thoughtful about what

1611
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: I look at. I'm basically getting the emotional energy of

1612
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 1: all these people. And some of them, like you, are

1613
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: trying to help people, and some of them are just

1614
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: in evacuative expression of their pain. Others are in evacuative

1615
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 1: expression of cynicism. And I don't think I'm alone in this.

1616
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm a pretty sensitive person, or maybe I'm getting

1617
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,679
Speaker 1: more sensitive, but I'm very sensitive to this stuff.

1618
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 2: Like it's not like.

1619
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 1: It can throw off my whole day, but I can

1620
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 1: quickly get drawn down a rabbit hole of something. And

1621
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 1: then we talk about dopamine hits or the addictive properties

1622
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,640
Speaker 1: of social media, and that would be a fine conversation,

1623
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:15,679
Speaker 1: but that one's been had.

1624
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,880
Speaker 2: But what about all the energetic bombardment and that the

1625
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,839
Speaker 2: need for discernment and filtering of all this stuff.

1626
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 1: I wish, you know, I could label up like a

1627
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,600
Speaker 1: positivity score, And it's not to avoid the realities of

1628
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 1: the world. But I think, I don't know, does this

1629
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:35,479
Speaker 1: stuff affect you? Because I do my work so that

1630
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't permeate me. But you know, just like if

1631
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: someone wakes up in a bad mood, you can take

1632
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:41,519
Speaker 1: care of them. But if they wake up in a

1633
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: bad mood every single day, it's pretty draining on your

1634
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: home environment. So what do you do in order to

1635
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 1: keep emotional boundaries? Especially online?

1636
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 3: And the funny thing is the predictability of negativity doesn't

1637
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 3: reduce its effect.

1638
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,920
Speaker 1: Well, it also has a gravitational pull. I mean, I'm

1639
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 1: on X and Instagram and the other you know, threads

1640
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 1: and Facebook and all of them, you know, but I

1641
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: noticed that on some of the platforms in particular, like

1642
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: there's a gravitational pull, like people are there to fight.

1643
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: And now when I look at that, I think, you know,

1644
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:22,840
Speaker 1: some of them are saying highly intelligent things, some of

1645
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 1: them are not, but like they gotta have a lot

1646
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:27,919
Speaker 1: of like pain inside.

1647
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 3: I think that's what I was going to touch on.

1648
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 3: I think it's that. To me, the thing that has

1649
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 3: been most helpful in all of it is a genuine

1650
01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:43,280
Speaker 3: sense of deeper empathy and compassion for the energetic state

1651
01:25:43,320 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 3: of the world. The systems that have let people down

1652
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 3: and truly made them feel that they can't rely on them,

1653
01:25:55,800 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 3: and the systems that have done a disservice in justice,

1654
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 3: which has now led to this emotional evacuation as you

1655
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 3: called it, and to me using it as a way

1656
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 3: of having deeper empathy, deeper compassion, a genuine sense of

1657
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 3: recognition that although everyone does have choice and does have agency,

1658
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:28,360
Speaker 3: definitely there is an overarching energetic system that is almost

1659
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 3: keeping people imprisoned in this space, and that prison is

1660
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 3: now addictive to stay in. I feel for that. I

1661
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 3: deeply feel for that, and it affects me because I

1662
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 3: recognize that people haven't been set up for success by

1663
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 3: the education system, by the way the economy is set up,

1664
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 3: by the way anything's set up, like, it's not set

1665
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 3: people up for success. And naturally for people in their

1666
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 3: home they went a lot of people went set up

1667
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 3: for success. And so we have to zoom our and

1668
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 3: look at the context because if I zoom in and

1669
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 3: just look at that one tweet or that one comment,

1670
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,559
Speaker 3: oh god, it's like a bullet to the chest, you know.

1671
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 3: And it's like I've always had this vision and I've

1672
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 3: kind of done it mentally sometimes because I can't do

1673
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 3: it physically. And for every person that feels that way,

1674
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 3: I've always wanted I was like I wish I could

1675
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 3: sit down with every person individually who felt a certain

1676
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 3: way and have a contextually relevant, honest, authentic conversation with

1677
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 3: each person and beare my soul and be vulnerable and

1678
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,880
Speaker 3: open my heart. But we can't. And I also know

1679
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 3: that one post can't do that for everyone, Like it's

1680
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,639
Speaker 3: not possible for one quote, one image, one message, one

1681
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 3: podcast episode that will speak to everyone to make everyone

1682
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 3: feel seen, heard and understood. I could just about do

1683
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:51,600
Speaker 3: that on a one to one level, let alone a

1684
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 3: one to one hundred million level. How are you going

1685
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 3: to do that? And so I also have empathy for myself,

1686
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 3: and I extend that compassion back to myself and recognize

1687
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:04,639
Speaker 3: I'm a limited human being who, just as that individual

1688
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 3: is limited by their systems and their setup and their energy,

1689
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 3: so am I. And there's no way in which I

1690
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 3: could respond to this individual and satisfy this exchange with

1691
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 3: one hundred and forty two hundred and eighty characters, like,

1692
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 3: how's that even possible? And so I think, to me,

1693
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 3: deepening my compassion and empathy externally and internally have been

1694
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 3: the only relevant tools, as woo wo or as spiritual

1695
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:36,799
Speaker 3: as they may sound, because there is no practical habit

1696
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:40,919
Speaker 3: based solution that I can give you some tactics and ideas,

1697
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 3: but I know as well that at one point they're

1698
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 3: just logical and theoretical and practical, but they're not. Yeah,

1699
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 3: they don't feel. They don't hit me there, and so

1700
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,600
Speaker 3: to me, I've seen it all as a simulation and

1701
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 3: an experiment to deepen human emotion, deep in human empathy,

1702
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 3: deep in human compassion, and a reminder of my fallibility,

1703
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 3: so that I can embrace my own insignificance, so that

1704
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 3: I can therefore take shelter in the Source and the

1705
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 3: universe and God, and to allow for space for that.

1706
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 3: If I was able to control every one of these

1707
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:23,720
Speaker 3: things and make it work perfectly, I may, in a

1708
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 3: very crude sense, you may, under false pretenses, stop believing

1709
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 3: you're the controller to some degree. And I think anyone

1710
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 3: who's experienced success in certain domains starts to feel like

1711
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 3: the controller in their relevant fields. And I think all

1712
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:41,479
Speaker 3: of these things are expedited in order just to encourage

1713
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 3: you to have an ego death and pulverize the arrogance

1714
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 3: of whatever kind. By the way, I don't mean in

1715
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 3: a sense of that I feel I'm important, but we

1716
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:53,679
Speaker 3: all have a sense of I'm the controller. I can

1717
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:57,640
Speaker 3: make things work, I know what's right, I'm this, I'm that,

1718
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 3: And this is all reminding us of we're not the controller.

1719
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 3: We have to ultimately take shelter. We have to ultimately

1720
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 3: give up the reins, and I ultimately have to surrender

1721
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 3: and accept that there is a greater source, there is

1722
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 3: a greater power, and that when I'm in connection with

1723
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,639
Speaker 3: that and I'm in service of that, then I'm happy

1724
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:19,320
Speaker 3: and I'm joyful. But if I'm trying to be that

1725
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 3: or extrapolate energy from that to control and navigate, then

1726
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:26,960
Speaker 3: I'm forever going to be unhappy. So to me, that's

1727
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:29,640
Speaker 3: a quick version of the stuff that I try and

1728
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:32,479
Speaker 3: work on not to be helpless. I don't feel helpless

1729
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:38,080
Speaker 3: in that I feel at home. It's almost like, you know,

1730
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 3: when you're taking shelter of a greater source to take

1731
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,120
Speaker 3: care of things you can't take care of. It's not

1732
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 3: because you're helpless or because you're weak. It's actually the

1733
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 3: greatest sign of strength to know I can call up

1734
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 3: a friend to help me. You know, Am I more

1735
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 3: strong because I can move home myself and not ask

1736
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:56,680
Speaker 3: anyone for help? Or am I stronger because three of

1737
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 3: my friends came and helped me out and carry the load.

1738
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 3: I'm stronger asking for help. I have a bad community

1739
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 3: and network. You'd say that person smarter in healthier, and

1740
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 3: so I think of that same way on a universal level,

1741
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 3: at least I tried to. I'm working on it.

1742
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:13,639
Speaker 1: I love that, and I realized from what you said that,

1743
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, the greatest sense of safety seems to arrive

1744
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: from not trying to control everything. And it's counterintuitive, right,

1745
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, we think, okay, well, how do you get safety, Well,

1746
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:27,839
Speaker 1: you have to get rid of vigilance.

1747
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 2: How do you get rid of vigilance?

1748
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 1: Well, you decide what you do and don't have to

1749
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 1: pay attention to And at some point, if one decides

1750
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,280
Speaker 1: I can't control all of this, you have one of

1751
01:31:38,360 --> 01:31:41,679
Speaker 1: two options. Either that means you're just waiting for that

1752
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 1: wave to come demolish you wave of whatever, or you

1753
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: trust like you trust in something. Two, make everything okay

1754
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 1: even if that wave comes. You know, and I've talked

1755
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: before on podcasts. I believe in God, I do, you know,

1756
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 1: And of course I believe in everyone's right to believe

1757
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 1: or not believe what they believe in. I think that

1758
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:11,800
Speaker 1: the notion of giving up trying to control everything and

1759
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: giving over control two more universal forces or a universal force,

1760
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: whatever one's mode of thinking happens to be I believe

1761
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 1: they're entitled to is probably the most peace inducing step

1762
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:29,759
Speaker 1: I've ever taken.

1763
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 2: And I thought it.

1764
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 1: Would be, you know, matched with a little sneaking, you know,

1765
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:36,320
Speaker 1: voice in the back.

1766
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, But but it's not.

1767
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: And I don't know how that works at the level

1768
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: of neuroscience. I know there are neuroscientists who are trying

1769
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: to explore this, and as the data evolve, I'll certainly

1770
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: pay attention to it, not with the intention of trying

1771
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:57,640
Speaker 1: to undermine any kind of larger sense of anything, but

1772
01:32:58,000 --> 01:32:58,679
Speaker 1: just out of interest.

1773
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:01,520
Speaker 2: Far far, too interesting.

1774
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 1: There's actually a woman at Stanford. I haven't yet to

1775
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 1: talk to her. We should both talk to her, she said.

1776
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I forget her name at the moment, because I just

1777
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 1: learned about her work in the Department of Anthropology, who

1778
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: has spent her entire career studying people's inner voices, people

1779
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:18,600
Speaker 1: who hear voices, people hear the voices of others, and

1780
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 1: sure this sometimes goes into the domain of people who

1781
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: have auditory hallucinations and so forth, but also just these

1782
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 1: different scripts that people have in their mind that include

1783
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: their own voices and other voices, voices we've internalized from childhood.

1784
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: This resonates with me a lot because when I was

1785
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: a kid, after my parents who put me to sleep,

1786
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:39,120
Speaker 1: I used to arrange dialogues between people I had heard

1787
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 1: that day, and I could hear their voices in very

1788
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: clear ways in my head, and I would remember things

1789
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 1: they said, and I could create these dialogues. And so

1790
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 1: I've also always had a very strong audiographic memory. It's

1791
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:53,639
Speaker 1: not as if everything I hear I remember a verbatim.

1792
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 1: That actually would be a super skill would have saved

1793
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 1: me in a lot of arguments. But in all seriousness,

1794
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 1: I think what you describe about essentially a letting go

1795
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:07,759
Speaker 1: or a giving over of the need for the control

1796
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: that we all experience. The desire for control is really

1797
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: where the solution wise. I think I know this because

1798
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 1: many people have said it, and it's very hard to do,

1799
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: but that once one does it.

1800
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 2: Once, you know you can do it again.

1801
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:23,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's a practice, a practice.

1802
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 1: It's not you write it down and it's done. It's

1803
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 1: a practice. And you know, I also am thinking about

1804
01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 1: the kind of counterintuitive nature of the fact that we're

1805
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:37,320
Speaker 1: talking at once about letting go and not trying to

1806
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,640
Speaker 1: control everything, but also pushing oneself to be more resilient

1807
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 1: and tenacious and things of that sort.

1808
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 2: And so I feel like all of life is like that.

1809
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: All of life is about, Yes, you need to take

1810
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:49,960
Speaker 1: care of your physiology, you need to get your sleep

1811
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:52,080
Speaker 1: at night, but it's also okay to get a bad

1812
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 1: night's sleep every.

1813
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 2: Once in a while.

1814
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 1: It's okay to not do every protocol. In fact, it's

1815
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 1: encouraged to not do every protocol. The expectation on us

1816
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 1: is not perfection rights, it's I think being able to

1817
01:35:03,120 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 1: toggle between these different states. I think that one of

1818
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,639
Speaker 1: the best things about social media. One of the best

1819
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:13,919
Speaker 1: things about podcasts is that you know, speaking and listening

1820
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: is the human narrative. Certainly writing certainly plays poetry and

1821
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 1: music as well dance. There are other forms of communication,

1822
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 1: certainly sculpture and I hear we go on and on.

1823
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:27,959
Speaker 2: But as a great.

1824
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:31,720
Speaker 1: Podcaster David Cenra, who hosts The Founder's Podcast, it's kind

1825
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 1: of a like a nerds podcast of if so many

1826
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 1: interesting founders, like a founders of companies that he sort

1827
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: of does for that what I do for science and health,

1828
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,960
Speaker 1: and what you do for health and spirituality and so

1829
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 1: many more topics, psychology and so on.

1830
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 2: David does for founders and company founders.

1831
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 1: And he said, you know that podcasting and to some extent,

1832
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 1: social media, but really podcasting is the human narrative record.

1833
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 1: Did radio Radio used to be live, Sometimes it was

1834
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 1: recorded and then played, but there wasn't an archive that

1835
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 1: you could go access, and where there was, it was

1836
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 1: a fairly sparse archive. I think we're going to look

1837
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 1: back one hundred years from now, and whether it's in

1838
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:17,559
Speaker 1: AI form or in its traditional form as it is now.

1839
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:21,720
Speaker 1: I think people speaking onto the internet is our you know,

1840
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: this is our stone tablets, these our cave drawings.

1841
01:36:26,640 --> 01:36:29,600
Speaker 2: It's wild, it's wild, and.

1842
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 1: I like to think it's serving the evolution of our

1843
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:36,759
Speaker 1: species at some level. Certainly it's creating a historical record.

1844
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 1: I often think about this, like so many thoughts, so

1845
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: many emotions that people have don't get transmuted into useful

1846
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 1: tools that others could benefit from. I think this is

1847
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 1: why we love music and poetry and things that capture

1848
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 1: an essence. Actually, I recall now, this is what I

1849
01:36:55,080 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about please. Lately, I try I

1850
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: spend real time trying to feel experiences more than just

1851
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 1: think about them.

1852
01:37:06,360 --> 01:37:07,839
Speaker 2: I have a very.

1853
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 1: Like you know, kind of dominant analytic mind. I'm trying

1854
01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:15,040
Speaker 1: to think, strategize, understand, makes sense of always been like that,

1855
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 1: but in recent years, and especially this last year, I've

1856
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,880
Speaker 1: just tried to like sense what's going on outside me

1857
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:26,759
Speaker 1: and in me. And this form of intelligence is something

1858
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: that people have talked about for hundreds of thousands of years.

1859
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,760
Speaker 1: It's a different form of intelligence. It's the one that

1860
01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 1: I think has access to our unconscious mind in a

1861
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 1: way that thinking doesn't always have access to.

1862
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:42,599
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily linked to emotion.

1863
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: It's just more of a are we drawn toward away

1864
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:48,839
Speaker 1: from where we kind of neutral about a given person

1865
01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:53,120
Speaker 1: or experience, and it draws on a different set of

1866
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:53,919
Speaker 1: neural circuits.

1867
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 2: And I started.

1868
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 1: Thinking about this in large part because of my love

1869
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:02,120
Speaker 1: of dog. You know, my dog Costello I put down

1870
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: in July of twenty twenty one, and I always loved

1871
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: the bulldog because the first time I ever went to

1872
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:09,600
Speaker 1: a dog show, which everybody should do.

1873
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 2: By the way, have you ever been to a dog show?

1874
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:12,000
Speaker 3: Now we should go.

1875
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: So I was taken to a dog show by my

1876
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: then girlfriend when I was a post doc, and she said,

1877
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 1: you gotta go to a dog show, and it was

1878
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: and so we went to the dog show, but we

1879
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 1: didn't attend the show in front is the show where

1880
01:38:23,360 --> 01:38:25,760
Speaker 1: they're going over things and walking around and getting preyed around,

1881
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:28,200
Speaker 1: and that part's cool. But the really cool part is

1882
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 1: you go in the back where you have all the

1883
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:33,719
Speaker 1: dog breeders, with all the different breeds of dogs, usually

1884
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: five or six of each breed, and you can see

1885
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,800
Speaker 1: the immense variation both in the structure but also the

1886
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 1: temperaments and therefore the nervous systems of these different animals

1887
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: all the same species also dogs, by the way, you

1888
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 1: have little ones and you have giants in Chihuahuas and

1889
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,000
Speaker 1: great Danes in the same species. As far as I know,

1890
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:54,200
Speaker 1: it's the greatest variation and brain and body size of

1891
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: any species. There's probably a you know, another species out

1892
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 1: there that someone will point doubt that you know makes

1893
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,880
Speaker 1: me wrong, but it's at least the far end of

1894
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the continuum in that sense. So I'm back there and

1895
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I really want a dog. At some point

1896
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 1: I'm thinking I want a Rhodesian ridgeback, or I really

1897
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:12,400
Speaker 1: like the you know, the wolf founds. I really love

1898
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 1: the Afghans. They look like people in dog suits, the

1899
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:18,160
Speaker 1: way they want to move around and so so bright eyed.

1900
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,760
Speaker 1: And then I looked over in the corner and there's

1901
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 1: this row of bulldogs snoring like a xylophone. And I

1902
01:39:26,520 --> 01:39:28,559
Speaker 1: went over and I asked the woman there, I said,

1903
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:31,840
Speaker 1: an interesting breed of dog and said, oh, they're the best.

1904
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:33,439
Speaker 1: And I said, well, everyone here says that about their

1905
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:36,120
Speaker 1: breed of dog and said, yeah, but they're really the

1906
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: sweetest and they are the essence of efficiency. And so

1907
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 1: I woke one up and I started playing with it,

1908
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 1: and you realize that they don't react unless they need to.

1909
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,600
Speaker 1: Some have more energy than others, but when they need to,

1910
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:50,600
Speaker 1: they have a lot of energy available to them. But

1911
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,360
Speaker 1: they have very little spontaneous movement. Now I'm not like this.

1912
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: I think I'm probably becoming more like this as the

1913
01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:00,559
Speaker 1: years go by, through some effort. But other breeds of

1914
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:03,679
Speaker 1: dogs are constantly moving. They're like peripatetic. They're constantly moving.

1915
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:05,759
Speaker 1: They're constantly moving, and it makes me a little nervous.

1916
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 1: Whereas the bulldog just made me feel very calm. So

1917
01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:11,440
Speaker 1: I got Costello not that day. I got him elsewhere,

1918
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 1: and I found that his presence, even his loud snoring,

1919
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:19,600
Speaker 1: made me very calm. And he was not reactive to

1920
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:22,599
Speaker 1: things that did not require reactivity to He was reactive

1921
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,160
Speaker 1: when appropriate. And I'm not saying the bulldog is the

1922
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 1: perfect breed. In fact, I discourage people from getting them

1923
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 1: unless they have the means to take care of them,

1924
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 1: because they tend to have a lot of health issues.

1925
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 2: They're very inbred.

1926
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 1: It's kind of a cruel breed, especially in its modern iterations.

1927
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 1: But every dog has a different energy. So pay attention

1928
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 1: to how much spontaneous movement there is. Pay attention to

1929
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:45,600
Speaker 1: where they put their eyes, how readily they just go

1930
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 1: to sleep or or not, how quickly they stand up

1931
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 1: and move, and then start to look at people, and

1932
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 1: you start to realize there's tremendous variation there. There's a

1933
01:40:53,360 --> 01:40:56,400
Speaker 1: bright eyed inness to certain people you're one of them,

1934
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 1: other like really at the level of their eyes that

1935
01:40:59,080 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 1: are there with you, and that also exude a feeling

1936
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: of calm. And so I've started paying more attention to

1937
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,640
Speaker 1: how things make me feel. And I think This is

1938
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:11,479
Speaker 1: why going on social media now, I feel like I'm

1939
01:41:11,479 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 1: eating twenty fifty five different cuisines at once, which would

1940
01:41:14,439 --> 01:41:16,840
Speaker 1: be disgusting, Whereas if I just kind of focus on

1941
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:20,719
Speaker 1: one or two things, like I love different cuisine, different types.

1942
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 2: Of food, but I don't want them all at once.

1943
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 1: And so I think as humans, we are meant to

1944
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 1: experience a huge array of what life has to offer,

1945
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:30,479
Speaker 1: and people have to offer not all of it, but

1946
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 1: a lot of it. And I feel like being able

1947
01:41:34,880 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 1: to sense into kind of the essence of music, or

1948
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:39,920
Speaker 1: the essence of a person's presence, or the essence of

1949
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 1: a group, for me, has been very informative toward just

1950
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 1: kind of like realizing they're these different ways of interacting

1951
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 1: with the world. I don't want to sound too abstract here.

1952
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 1: I think what we're really talking about here is turning

1953
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:54,280
Speaker 1: off traditional modes of thinking, which tend to be single

1954
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:58,920
Speaker 1: track or dual track, and sensing energy, I think is

1955
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:03,519
Speaker 1: more about taking a broader band analysis of what's going on,

1956
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 1: more visual field, more sensory field, and bringing it all

1957
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,519
Speaker 1: in at once. And this is what we at least

1958
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 1: understand other animals to do, because they lack language at

1959
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: least in our form, and so they have to make

1960
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 1: decisions about moving toward, away from, or staying in a

1961
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:23,960
Speaker 1: neutral position based on a kind of gestalt, like a

1962
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: whole picture of something. And I think it can be

1963
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: a very useful rudder with which to navigate. Now, of course,

1964
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,599
Speaker 1: we also have to sharpen our attention and sharpen our

1965
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 1: intellect around certain things. But I think as time goes on,

1966
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:38,839
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know, I'm trying to become more bulldog

1967
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:42,520
Speaker 1: like for myself and for the people in my life.

1968
01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:46,280
Speaker 1: Because Costello made me feel safe, certainly made me feel accepted.

1969
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:50,679
Speaker 1: He was very stubborn, but he also he took great

1970
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 1: delight in things, and he also could be quite the

1971
01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:58,920
Speaker 1: protector if he needed to be. And so I really thought, like, wow,

1972
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 1: if ever there was some energy is to embody, it

1973
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 1: would be the bulldog energy. And maybe for other people

1974
01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 1: they need to embody a different energy. I think we

1975
01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:08,479
Speaker 1: can learn a lot by paying attention to animals, you know,

1976
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:10,639
Speaker 1: Like I said, I spend some time with Rick Rubin,

1977
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: and I won't compare him to a bulldog. He's not

1978
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:17,760
Speaker 1: like a bulldog like he's like a wolfhound. He's extremely

1979
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:22,080
Speaker 1: still but then when he opens his mouth, that mind

1980
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:26,639
Speaker 1: is it's like it's a force. And I know Rick

1981
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:29,040
Speaker 1: well enough to know that he has this amazing ability

1982
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:31,360
Speaker 1: to get very close to the energy of music and

1983
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,040
Speaker 1: other people, but he doesn't get absorbed by it. It

1984
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 1: doesn't change him in a way that changes your experience

1985
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:41,520
Speaker 1: of him. He's having experiences, but like there's a stability

1986
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: to him.

1987
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:47,040
Speaker 2: He's like this cord of reliability, and I.

1988
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,280
Speaker 1: Think that's one of the reasons why people gravitate towards him.

1989
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 1: It's also that beard is pretty often and your energy too,

1990
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:55,760
Speaker 1: my friend. I haven't figured out what animal you are

1991
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:58,960
Speaker 1: I'm looking for. I haven't figured it out, but it's

1992
01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:02,680
Speaker 1: You're very loving, but you're also very discerning. I think

1993
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:05,920
Speaker 1: this is something that people probably don't realize about you.

1994
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm not your psychologist, but you know, but you know

1995
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:14,240
Speaker 1: you have a gift. You have a gift, and you

1996
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 1: give your gift in such plentiful ways and so many

1997
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 1: people benefit. And so you've also clearly learned to surround

1998
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:26,559
Speaker 1: yourself with people that allow you to give and to receive.

1999
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 2: I say this with great admiration.

2000
01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:30,960
Speaker 1: I think I know you well enough now to like

2001
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:36,360
Speaker 1: I know your heart like and yeah, yeah, I can

2002
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 1: feel it, like I can feel your love for what

2003
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 1: you do and how badly you want people to get it,

2004
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:48,720
Speaker 1: but you know better than to do anything but just

2005
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 1: create an offering, and as a consequence, people flock to it.

2006
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 2: I love it.

2007
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:56,519
Speaker 1: I love it, and I've grown tremendously from your books,

2008
01:44:56,520 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 1: from your teaching. I tell you this offline, so I'm

2009
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,200
Speaker 1: now saying it. I'm now saying it recorded because I

2010
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 1: think it's really important that people understand that the podcasters,

2011
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:11,400
Speaker 1: especially like whether or not it's you or Rick or

2012
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:14,800
Speaker 1: Lex or and there's so many others, right or Joe

2013
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:17,479
Speaker 1: or Tim or Whitney or whoever, Like, there's so many,

2014
01:45:17,479 --> 01:45:21,640
Speaker 1: too many to list, Like, we're all just being ourselves.

2015
01:45:22,360 --> 01:45:25,599
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of it. It's like Costello being Costello.

2016
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:28,680
Speaker 1: And to some extent, sure there's you know edits and

2017
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:30,640
Speaker 1: production all that kind of stuff, but it's just you

2018
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 1: being you. And to me, that's the most beautiful thing.

2019
01:45:34,360 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: It's what really works and it's what really matters, and

2020
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:39,280
Speaker 1: I think it's what people should do even when there's

2021
01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:42,719
Speaker 1: no recording. You certainly do you know you're the same

2022
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:44,760
Speaker 1: am mic and off Mike. It's one of the things

2023
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:48,160
Speaker 1: I love about you, and I think it's what people

2024
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: we need to do. We all need to like also

2025
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 1: embrace that unique wiring that we each have.

2026
01:45:54,160 --> 01:45:56,639
Speaker 3: So absolutely well, Andrew, thank you for those kind words,

2027
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:58,559
Speaker 3: and I don't take them lightly. I know you mean them.

2028
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 3: And what I've really share today is you've also shared

2029
01:46:02,600 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 3: the part of you that comes out naturally when we're together,

2030
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,080
Speaker 3: and same with me, the part of me that's fascinated

2031
01:46:09,080 --> 01:46:11,439
Speaker 3: by neuroscience and everything you teach and and I think

2032
01:46:11,479 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 3: that's the beauty of it too. It's that I hope

2033
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:16,960
Speaker 3: that everyone has been listening and watching today knows and

2034
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:19,200
Speaker 3: loves you for what you do on a daily basis,

2035
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 3: but then can accept that there are different facets to you,

2036
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 3: There are different elements to you. There are different things

2037
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:27,639
Speaker 3: that you're curious about, and you've shown them all today

2038
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:29,920
Speaker 3: and laid them out. When they come to Huberman Lab,

2039
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:33,679
Speaker 3: they're getting something very specific and they're getting that part.

2040
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 3: But you allow yourself to showcase different parts of your

2041
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:39,400
Speaker 3: personality and I'm grateful that you shared that with me,

2042
01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:41,519
Speaker 3: you share that with my community. I want to thank

2043
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 3: you for joining me today and being so open and

2044
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:48,599
Speaker 3: vulnerable and giving with your space and energy. And I'm

2045
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,439
Speaker 3: glad that you feel confident and open enough to be

2046
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:55,519
Speaker 3: able to do that, because it goes back to everything

2047
01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:58,920
Speaker 3: we've discussed today. We all want to feel safe and accepted,

2048
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:02,639
Speaker 3: but in order to do that, we want all parts

2049
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 3: of ourselves to be accepted. Otherwise we can't truly feel safe.

2050
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:09,840
Speaker 3: And so if I'm only accepted for one part of me,

2051
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 3: then I don't feel safe, and I feel safe only

2052
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:15,680
Speaker 3: sharing one part of myself, then I'm not truly accepted.

2053
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 3: And so I think everything we've talked about today comes

2054
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 3: around beautifully full circle. And thank you for making me

2055
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:26,160
Speaker 3: feel safe and accepted. Thank you for being safe and accepted.

2056
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:29,640
Speaker 3: And I hope everyone who's listening and watching today focuses

2057
01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:31,639
Speaker 3: on doing that for themselves and the people they love.

2058
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:35,240
Speaker 3: That would be a beautiful ripple effect from this show,

2059
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:37,760
Speaker 3: that people go off and create that space for the

2060
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:38,679
Speaker 3: people in their lives.

2061
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,280
Speaker 2: So thank you, my friend, Well, thank you so much,

2062
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:44,080
Speaker 2: thanks for having me. And as I said, I'm such.

2063
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,439
Speaker 1: A huge fan of what you do and who you are,

2064
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 1: and you know and thank you for the kind words

2065
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 1: you know. I confess I have a bit of low

2066
01:47:54,080 --> 01:47:57,120
Speaker 1: level anxiety and sharing parts of myself I haven't shared

2067
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 1: publicly before, but since I was a kid, I always

2068
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: want to venture out a little bit further than the rest,

2069
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:09,240
Speaker 1: usually with a pack, but sometimes alone. And you know,

2070
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to embrace positive change in myself by example.

2071
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:17,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I am fallible and flawed like everybody.

2072
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:21,080
Speaker 1: I have areas that still need work, certainly, and I'm

2073
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: going to keep working away and sharing what I learn.

2074
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 2: And I'm grateful for all of it. And I'm especially

2075
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 2: grateful to you right now, So thank you, my thank you,

2076
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:30,720
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you.

2077
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:34,000
Speaker 3: If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,

2078
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:36,639
Speaker 3: you're trying to build more, I need you to listen

2079
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:39,599
Speaker 3: to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break

2080
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:43,799
Speaker 3: into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods

2081
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:47,679
Speaker 3: that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving

2082
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,240
Speaker 3: what you do. If you're trying to find your passion

2083
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:53,760
Speaker 3: and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

2084
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:56,479
Speaker 2: Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,

2085
01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 2: Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all

2086
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 2: of the value. That's the success comes when you say

2087
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:05,360
Speaker 2: I like this enough for other people to see it.